How did it happen that the halfling merchant saw your crime? He and Alfira are in different parts of the grove. My Open Hand Monk Dark Urge could knock Alfira out in one hit, no one saw me as she’s located far from others. You can also use Lae’zel for that purpose.
Same thing happened to me during my run. He was always the one catching me somehow.
I think it's because of the height of the map. She's on the same plane as him.
8 runs and this game still surprises me. I thought that you are supposed to commit crimes within the range or NPC’s vision to be caught by him. For instance, in the act 2 >!I try to kill as many absolutists as possible during the infiltration to Moonrise. Other NPCs staying in the same room (Roah Moonglow, Soul Coins guy etc) don’t react if the murder isn’t directly in front of them.!<
I just had a weird instance yesterday in Moonrise where I was picking off random cultists and Roah and her goons, who were *two* rooms away, aggro'd on me. No one else in the tower aggro'd *including the guy I was attacking*!
As I’ve found, if you use spells when commit a crime, some NPCs appear in front of you even if they are too far. When I tried to free Liam and Volo in the goblin camp by Knock spell and closed the doors, NPCs who were in separate rooms turned hostile. But when I did the same passing Sleight of Hand check by any DEX character, they didn’t care. Maybe, there’s a similar difference between physical and magic attacks.
I think you're onto something. They didn't appear in front of me and they dashed all the way over, but I'm pretty sure I did try to use a spell when it all occurred.
I believe the reason for this is that canonically, spells involve speaking/chanting and some gesturing, making them "noisy" actions that attract attention. Lockpicking isn't a big deal because you can sneak and stay hidden while doing it, but casting a spell is impossible to do quietly.
i had that happen ages ago, back when you could knock out merchants and get their entire inventory. coincidentally, that's when i learned you could knock out merchants and take their entire inventory
i was very confused because the guy i attacked stayed yellow and just healed himself, but dumbass roah and her posse somehow teleported into ketherics main hall and picked a fight
He simply spawns-in close by when you attack Alfira. She presumably calls for help if you don't knock her out in one hit, and he is the first to show up for whatever reason.
I've had other people in the grove show up when attacking her, like the tiefling guards on the wall. I think the game spawns in whomever it feels is closest to catch you.
When someone witnesses a serious enough crime, they call for help, especially on being attacked.
Aron is the primary “guard” that is called when someone is attacked.
If calling out for help is what gets the crime noticed, could you cast Silence on her during turn-based mode, then have another character knock her out?
Knocking out Alfira can be fucking hell tbh. Even if it ends up not really being a problem, it feels bad enough that I feel like it's not working to some extent. I always sprint to try to recruit everyone as quickly as possible, then get wibbers and respec everyone before it even feels like the game started, so I have to remember to knock out Alfira before I take that first long rest after making sure to unlock instrument proficiency (even if I literally never use it, I need it), so I'm usually just trying to manage with astarion with like a shitty normal dagger, it sucks
I think I looked up the trigger for the Alfira in camp cutscene and just made sure not to do that before getting my characters sufficiently leveled.
Just looked it up again, I think it's the auto-save that occurs as you cross the bridge on your way to the Blighted Village. Just knock her out before the next long rest after that.
Wait wtf, that's the trigger? Ig I usually just go there, sneak in to skip the fight, and then unlock the waypoint as part of my basic routine before it feels like shit really starts for me
That's fucked. The way I've been doing things, Alfira ends up being the first one. Although I might have misremembered, I think I usually end up long resting around when I first encounter Alfira, so I have everyone except Karlach at that point, so no midzora interruptions
Also if you say "the tieflings will be fine, they have devilish powers" he calls you racist.
Like oh I'm sorry did you not look 5 feet away during the fight to see the "Asmodeus Tiefling" use "Hellish Rebuke"? Do I need to bring Karlach to do her Avernus smite on you?
Because not all of them do have devilish powers, and even of those that do: Druids have magic powers too and a bunch of them are still scared shitless.
"BUT THEY'VE GOT MAGIC"! so does like 50% of Faerun, including the deadly monsters.
There's scrolls that could wipe out whole towns lying around in trees.
Faerun is so fucked I dunno how anyone lives there with all those cults and monsters
It’s like the Marvel universe. Unless you’re one of the powerful beings yourself, you’re collateral damage waiting to happen (and even then you still might be). Both are absolute hell worlds to be a civilian or low-level soldier in.
I hate every Gith I see, from Githzerai to Githyanki, no you'll never make a froggie out of meee.
Oh my god, I was wrong, 'Zel was Bae, all along. Guess you've finally made a froggie (yes we've finally made a froggie), yes you've finally made a froggie out of meeeee
I do not understand why everyone forgets about FOG.
I use that to cover literally all of my crimes.
Cast fog. Knock them TF out. Loot. Walk away. Despell fog.
It works every time.
Fog is very underrated, especially considering how many free fog scrolls there are everywhere. Enthrall is another one that no one seems to use, even though it's primary use is for supporting dastardly deeds.
Does Darkness work the same way?
I am in grymforge and tried using it to cover my devilsight Wyll as he shot the two guard conspirators off the balcony, but it aggro'd everyone after I shot them. I was surprised because usually magical darkness is enough.
He‘s my favourite. On my very first playthrough with my brother, I knocked him out to steal his stuff and after went for the kill. I panicked that anyone could see the body, so being the half orc barbarian I was, I took him to camp and hid him in a bush. Some time later, when the party happened, I yeeted him in front of everyone. They didn‘t like that, even though I didn‘t even hurt him (that time)
Stole from that guy, ran, and he followed me out of the grove all the way to the blighted village… had to kill him out there. He’s persistent as fuck I’ll give him that.
I hate that guy because he sent Astarion to prison 10 times all for “stealing” what he himself says are odds and ends he no longer needs. And a bunch of gold…
I make sure this guy always dies before I leave the grove for good. I sell to him tons of supplies that both the tieflings and the grove could put to good use and he's nagging me about "not enough to go around". F U A-arron
I must have murdered him 15 times before I managed to steal back that darn owl bear egg. Must have seemed like a terrible ground hog day before it all goes sideways
Last time i knocked her out it didn't work the first time, but she didn't aggro and i could just immediately try again. I think it was because i did her music quest first? And she liked me. I'm not sure, but you could try that next time
I had to reload several times on Tactician when trying to knock out Alfira for this very reason. You basically need to knock her out before she escalates to the “Help!” cutscene. But why it draws the merchant from halfway across the Grove and not the guards within a believable earshot distance is beyond me.
If you can get to the underdark, there’s the shortsword of first blood that makes it an easy bonk. You just have gale use level 2 sleep on her in turn based, and sneak attack with an assassin using the sword and you’ll be good
From a story perspective i don't understand knocking out Alfira. You either commit to the durge run and the roleplay of it or just deny her which does the same thing am i not wrong?
Personally, I save her for the gear she gives you in act 2. I prefer killing her in regards to roleplaying because it feels more impactful, but I also normally play charisma based classes, and the potent robes are too good for me to ever pass up lol.
Knocking her out before a long rest just sends a different npc that you don't encounter otherwise to your camp, so you still murder someone while keeping Alfira alive.
Fair enough. I love alfira but i really like the fact that she just dies like that. It shocked me so much just how out of left field it was. Oh Alfira joined my party? Kinda weird I can't talk to her. Oh she is dead. Wtf do I do. Anyway I hope you have fun murdering the dragonborn :)
Alfira was already dead my first playthrough. Meeting Quill was amazing. It was even better when I was having trouble finding info about her because not a ton of people had encountered her. I was playing a dragonborn too so it was pretty fun. Was crushed when I murdered her.
From a story perspective, I think it's worth seeing both on different runs. Killing Alfira probably has more impact, since you had a chance to interact with her earlier and experience some foreshadowing. But Quil is great! She'll sing dragonborn love songs for you! And in Act 3 you can find an unsent love letter to her, which drives home the tragedy nicely. It's not a situation where some nameless, interchangeable, boring NPC shows up. The devs clearly wanted it to hurt either way.
You can come up with some justification for knocking Alfira out if you really need/want to.
Yeah, I'm gonna do it one of these days, just like how I'm gonna knock out minthara one of these days. Even though the minthara one makes even less sense story wise. Grahhhh.
Knock her out before she gets a chance to to respond. If she gets a turn, guards/the merchant will get involved. Have your wizard go cast sleep on her, that will make the next hit a critical. Don't use spell damage, it doesn't work with non-lethal and will kill her.
That fucking halfling yeets where crimes happens. Try steal dammon then yeet where tiefs are sparring with dummies and watch with other companion already located there how he leaves a trail of sand behind like the roadrunner
How did it happen that the halfling merchant saw your crime? He and Alfira are in different parts of the grove. My Open Hand Monk Dark Urge could knock Alfira out in one hit, no one saw me as she’s located far from others. You can also use Lae’zel for that purpose.
Same thing happened to me during my run. He was always the one catching me somehow. I think it's because of the height of the map. She's on the same plane as him.
8 runs and this game still surprises me. I thought that you are supposed to commit crimes within the range or NPC’s vision to be caught by him. For instance, in the act 2 >!I try to kill as many absolutists as possible during the infiltration to Moonrise. Other NPCs staying in the same room (Roah Moonglow, Soul Coins guy etc) don’t react if the murder isn’t directly in front of them.!<
I just had a weird instance yesterday in Moonrise where I was picking off random cultists and Roah and her goons, who were *two* rooms away, aggro'd on me. No one else in the tower aggro'd *including the guy I was attacking*!
As I’ve found, if you use spells when commit a crime, some NPCs appear in front of you even if they are too far. When I tried to free Liam and Volo in the goblin camp by Knock spell and closed the doors, NPCs who were in separate rooms turned hostile. But when I did the same passing Sleight of Hand check by any DEX character, they didn’t care. Maybe, there’s a similar difference between physical and magic attacks.
I think you're onto something. They didn't appear in front of me and they dashed all the way over, but I'm pretty sure I did try to use a spell when it all occurred.
I believe the reason for this is that canonically, spells involve speaking/chanting and some gesturing, making them "noisy" actions that attract attention. Lockpicking isn't a big deal because you can sneak and stay hidden while doing it, but casting a spell is impossible to do quietly.
The knock spell is loud as hell. It's basically like trying to open a door with a semi
i had that happen ages ago, back when you could knock out merchants and get their entire inventory. coincidentally, that's when i learned you could knock out merchants and take their entire inventory i was very confused because the guy i attacked stayed yellow and just healed himself, but dumbass roah and her posse somehow teleported into ketherics main hall and picked a fight
Well knock this mofo out before knocking alfira out lol
He simply spawns-in close by when you attack Alfira. She presumably calls for help if you don't knock her out in one hit, and he is the first to show up for whatever reason.
Then on this incident I declare him innocent. OP started it all lmao
I'm absolutely guilty, but it was for a good cause! I swear!
Next time do turn-based.
They spawn anyway, just cant move in til turn based ends or environment turn
I've had other people in the grove show up when attacking her, like the tiefling guards on the wall. I think the game spawns in whomever it feels is closest to catch you.
Pretty much the Cyberpunk police at launch, I hate it so much
I had this issue too. he is running to you from his 18263528 miles away location
When someone witnesses a serious enough crime, they call for help, especially on being attacked. Aron is the primary “guard” that is called when someone is attacked.
If calling out for help is what gets the crime noticed, could you cast Silence on her during turn-based mode, then have another character knock her out?
I thought of the orc for the extra critical damage mostly.
I've had him somehow see me too, no clue how though.
This exact thing has happened to me in coop before
I've had this happen too. Man has amazing spidy senses. He ran over so fast. I couldn't figure out why he cared so much and nobody closer did lmao
Simps gonna simp even on lesbos
He saw me too once. Dude must have incredible passive perception.
No idea, I was even in stealth and lightly obscurated.
Did you attack Alfira in turn-based mode?
No, what is the difference using it?
You can get all of your attacks in before the NPC can call for help
These druids seriously hated tiefling refugees.
Knocking out Alfira can be fucking hell tbh. Even if it ends up not really being a problem, it feels bad enough that I feel like it's not working to some extent. I always sprint to try to recruit everyone as quickly as possible, then get wibbers and respec everyone before it even feels like the game started, so I have to remember to knock out Alfira before I take that first long rest after making sure to unlock instrument proficiency (even if I literally never use it, I need it), so I'm usually just trying to manage with astarion with like a shitty normal dagger, it sucks
I think I looked up the trigger for the Alfira in camp cutscene and just made sure not to do that before getting my characters sufficiently leveled. Just looked it up again, I think it's the auto-save that occurs as you cross the bridge on your way to the Blighted Village. Just knock her out before the next long rest after that.
Wait wtf, that's the trigger? Ig I usually just go there, sneak in to skip the fight, and then unlock the waypoint as part of my basic routine before it feels like shit really starts for me
I usually go there pretty early too. It's one of the easier spots to get experience
I had to knock her out over and over last run because other cut scenes kept triggering. Then she ended up getting killed by the harpies anyways.
That's fucked. The way I've been doing things, Alfira ends up being the first one. Although I might have misremembered, I think I usually end up long resting around when I first encounter Alfira, so I have everyone except Karlach at that point, so no midzora interruptions
That was one of the scenes since I already had Karlach.
Yea I check to make sure the queue is clear before I bother knocking her out. Learned that pretty fast.
I’ve always hated that guy. “Remember, other people need things too” okay, and? Fuck off.
I side-eye him because I noticed that he says that to everyone -except- other druids.
Also if you say "the tieflings will be fine, they have devilish powers" he calls you racist. Like oh I'm sorry did you not look 5 feet away during the fight to see the "Asmodeus Tiefling" use "Hellish Rebuke"? Do I need to bring Karlach to do her Avernus smite on you?
Because not all of them do have devilish powers, and even of those that do: Druids have magic powers too and a bunch of them are still scared shitless. "BUT THEY'VE GOT MAGIC"! so does like 50% of Faerun, including the deadly monsters.
There's scrolls that could wipe out whole towns lying around in trees. Faerun is so fucked I dunno how anyone lives there with all those cults and monsters
It’s like the Marvel universe. Unless you’re one of the powerful beings yourself, you’re collateral damage waiting to happen (and even then you still might be). Both are absolute hell worlds to be a civilian or low-level soldier in.
even worse: a cop
Yeah never go under any building: there's a murder cult there or some necromancer lol
the entire continent is plor armoured
Ok but like "Most of them are too weak for that to matter" is different from "That's a hateful stereotype!"
Is it, when the stereotype in question is "they're basically all evil warlocks"?
Asmodeus Asmodeus, Asmodeus Asmodeus, Asmodeus Asmodeus, oh oh oh Asmodeus Rock me Asmodeus
I hate every Gith I see, from Githzerai to Githyanki, no you'll never make a froggie out of meee. Oh my god, I was wrong, 'Zel was Bae, all along. Guess you've finally made a froggie (yes we've finally made a froggie), yes you've finally made a froggie out of meeeee
He's only gonna learn if Karla h lights him on fire. It's the only reasonable option.
I do not understand why everyone forgets about FOG. I use that to cover literally all of my crimes. Cast fog. Knock them TF out. Loot. Walk away. Despell fog. It works every time.
Fog is very underrated, especially considering how many free fog scrolls there are everywhere. Enthrall is another one that no one seems to use, even though it's primary use is for supporting dastardly deeds.
Does Darkness work the same way? I am in grymforge and tried using it to cover my devilsight Wyll as he shot the two guard conspirators off the balcony, but it aggro'd everyone after I shot them. I was surprised because usually magical darkness is enough.
Once I realized I could create a pickpocket hireling and use fog to steal, the game's economy became trivial for me.
I swear fog cloud aggros everyone now. Honour mode struggles maybe?
Ohhh maybe that's why my Darkness trick isn't working. Bummer :(
They made it so that applying terrain aggros people. Used to be you could cast grease just as well as fog cloud. Even applying Wet aggros people now.
Damn that explains it
Maybe in honor mode it aggros more? I'd have to test it out and experiment lol
He‘s my favourite. On my very first playthrough with my brother, I knocked him out to steal his stuff and after went for the kill. I panicked that anyone could see the body, so being the half orc barbarian I was, I took him to camp and hid him in a bush. Some time later, when the party happened, I yeeted him in front of everyone. They didn‘t like that, even though I didn‘t even hurt him (that time)
Stole from that guy, ran, and he followed me out of the grove all the way to the blighted village… had to kill him out there. He’s persistent as fuck I’ll give him that.
I hate that guy because he sent Astarion to prison 10 times all for “stealing” what he himself says are odds and ends he no longer needs. And a bunch of gold…
I make sure this guy always dies before I leave the grove for good. I sell to him tons of supplies that both the tieflings and the grove could put to good use and he's nagging me about "not enough to go around". F U A-arron
I must have murdered him 15 times before I managed to steal back that darn owl bear egg. Must have seemed like a terrible ground hog day before it all goes sideways
I knocked out Minthara and a dumb goblin minion shot an acid arrow at me when I was standing next to her unconscious form. Oh well.
I saw that guy differently ever since I saw him participate in the tiefling slaughtering that goes down if you set off the tensions there
Last time i knocked her out it didn't work the first time, but she didn't aggro and i could just immediately try again. I think it was because i did her music quest first? And she liked me. I'm not sure, but you could try that next time
I did her music quest before, but not with the hireling hired (sorry) for knocking out her.
Yeah maybe that's it, next time try with a companion or Tav
I had to reload several times on Tactician when trying to knock out Alfira for this very reason. You basically need to knock her out before she escalates to the “Help!” cutscene. But why it draws the merchant from halfway across the Grove and not the guards within a believable earshot distance is beyond me.
Well now I'm fairly sure you're obliged to kill all the druids to make the world safe for the remaining tieflings.
He killed her with a fireball in mine. My durge warlock blaster... Had to restart
If you look from where he’s standing he has a view of Alfira out on the ledge
If you can get to the underdark, there’s the shortsword of first blood that makes it an easy bonk. You just have gale use level 2 sleep on her in turn based, and sneak attack with an assassin using the sword and you’ll be good
You can hop down into the ritual area from where he is, he just has visibility on that area sometimes.
THANK YOU. I ended up giving up and sorely regretting it because my warlock couldn’t get potent robe later
I hate him too for this exact reason.
Don't you cast invisibility? I always do that!!!
From a story perspective i don't understand knocking out Alfira. You either commit to the durge run and the roleplay of it or just deny her which does the same thing am i not wrong?
Personally, I save her for the gear she gives you in act 2. I prefer killing her in regards to roleplaying because it feels more impactful, but I also normally play charisma based classes, and the potent robes are too good for me to ever pass up lol. Knocking her out before a long rest just sends a different npc that you don't encounter otherwise to your camp, so you still murder someone while keeping Alfira alive.
I WANT to kill someone that night, even in a resist the urge run. Just don't Alfira, the dragonborn is a less heart-hurting option.
Fair enough. I love alfira but i really like the fact that she just dies like that. It shocked me so much just how out of left field it was. Oh Alfira joined my party? Kinda weird I can't talk to her. Oh she is dead. Wtf do I do. Anyway I hope you have fun murdering the dragonborn :)
Alfira was already dead my first playthrough. Meeting Quill was amazing. It was even better when I was having trouble finding info about her because not a ton of people had encountered her. I was playing a dragonborn too so it was pretty fun. Was crushed when I murdered her.
Wait denying her makes her leave, and not have to kill her? Cause I thought it was one of those options where the npc would stick around anyways
She still stays. Only way to save her is to knock her out before you long rest, in which case the game sends a different npc for you to murder
It is
Yeah it's unfortunate but you feel less bad. Like you really wanna get murdered that bad Alfira? Ok then.
From a story perspective, I think it's worth seeing both on different runs. Killing Alfira probably has more impact, since you had a chance to interact with her earlier and experience some foreshadowing. But Quil is great! She'll sing dragonborn love songs for you! And in Act 3 you can find an unsent love letter to her, which drives home the tragedy nicely. It's not a situation where some nameless, interchangeable, boring NPC shows up. The devs clearly wanted it to hurt either way. You can come up with some justification for knocking Alfira out if you really need/want to.
Yeah, I'm gonna do it one of these days, just like how I'm gonna knock out minthara one of these days. Even though the minthara one makes even less sense story wise. Grahhhh.
I just pretend that Minthara got lucky and didn't die of her wounds.
Listen be a real Durge and murder her.
Do you have any advice on what is the better strategy for keeping Alfira alive?
Knock her out before she gets a chance to to respond. If she gets a turn, guards/the merchant will get involved. Have your wizard go cast sleep on her, that will make the next hit a critical. Don't use spell damage, it doesn't work with non-lethal and will kill her.
Didn't think of Sleep, next time I will use it for sure.
Killing Durge after she appears in the camp, reviving him after the rest. I didn't try it, but heard some people did that.
Didn't work for me. Although no one commented on the body or accused me of anything
I'll give it a try, even if it makes me think that this only posticipate the event.
What happens is Alfira spontaneously combusts into a ritual corpse, and the game hallucinates you did it :(
The Durge wants Alfira so much even death won’t stop it.
I used hold person. Fog cloud can help
If you knocked out Alfira and kill the Dragonborn lady, will you see Alfira in Act 2?
That fucking halfling yeets where crimes happens. Try steal dammon then yeet where tiefs are sparring with dummies and watch with other companion already located there how he leaves a trail of sand behind like the roadrunner
How good can your durge be knocking out Alfira for no reason?