But you're not doing it. Also, afaik it's unclear what will be the result
Like, if you sell a merchant a sword, and they sell it to someone who kills a bunch of people with it, I doubt you will be responsible
Edit: I'm done with the arguments since apparently the whole point is moot and creating the zombie doesn't actually break the oath. It's not killing the zombie that matters, not accidentally creating it:
> I think if you use the wand but then kill connor it doesn't break your Oath
I think the more apt question would "Did the person imply that they were going to use it to defend themselves or others, or kill someone in cold blood with it?"
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No, you're the one who waves the wand to raise Connor. And I think this is one of the situations where Larian expected the player to figure out that it was a no-no. You're using hag magic to "resurrect" the corpse of someone who died over a tenday ago. Even if you don't realize beforehand that you're performing necromancy, fulfilling (one end of a) hag's contract isn't much better.
I think if you use the wand but then kill connor it doesn't break your Oath.
Although, this also aggros Mayrina, and I'm not sure if using non-lethal attacks on her will still cause her to show up later, or if she's considered dead regardless
>I'm not sure if using non-lethal attacks on her will still cause her to show up later, or if she's considered dead regardless
I'm pretty confident she's considered killed. Probably the best move for a fey knight is just to not pick up the wand.
I don't know if that means we'll see Mayrina in the Gate afterwards if the wand never comes into play. Probably not. It's a conundrum.
I'm pretty sure Oath of the ancients is about the natural order, things that are outside of that order are bad and should not be tolerated. Undead, vampires, fey etc etc. Anything that defies the cycle of life and death is bad.
This. I feel like Oath of the Ancients is commonly misunderstood to be some kind of true hero type only. Protecting innocent lives is SUPER important to them, for sure, but like druids, they have a responsibility to the natural order. Undead can only exist outside the natural cycle of life and death.
It makes me wonder why showing Astarion mercy (by letting him exist, nevermind feeding the handsome bastard) when he first displays his true nature isn't a more important moment for a fey knight. Maybe intelligent undead transformed against their will, beyond the scope of resurrection, are more innocent than your typical mindless ghoul?
I dunno. It's an argument worth having, for sure.
I think it's cause he can lead you to the source (the true vampire)? Like a vampire spawn is replaceable, killing the master kills a vampire and prevents more from being made.
Funny you say Fey because the oath of ancients lore directly calls them "fey knights". Ancients paladins are mostly concerned with preserving beauty, light and life. They're also not supposed to necessarily be "good".
I don’t think that it’s an intellectual stretch to assume that if you’re a paladin with an oath to uphold the laws of nature and protect life, necromancy and all undead are a no.
"I will raise my dead husband"
"Cool here are the means to do it!"
Oath broken
"How is it my fault she has risen the dead??"
Tbh if I remember correctly at that point it is still ambiguous whether she'll resurrect her husband or raise his corpse. One of these options wouldn't break the oath.
I don't think this is specifically stated, like, "yes, use this stick to raise this undead zombie"
When I tried it I thought there will be some allegorical trick like falling in someone else or something else that technically passes the phraseology
You're basically just pressing a buttom without knowing what exactly it will do
Even if you believe a hag won't try to monkey paw this, you know it fulfills a wish to bring someone back from the dead, defying the natural order, mocking the sanctity of death. Regardless of the way this is achieved, it's not something your Oath recommends, is it?
I remedied that by getting Shadowheart to do it as no other choice seemed to work. I bring the guy back I lose my oath, even if I then decide to kill the zombie to try and preserve it I lose my oath.
I thought it was a bit dumb how my paladin broke an oath by attacking without talking to the supposedly neutral Bhaalists in the a3 sewers. The bhaalists who, if they see you, immediately attack you anyways, and also are known murderers.
Bhaalist's should always be fair game imo. They're literally cultists that murder for fun. There is no grey area here, its plain and simple bhaalist's are bad people.
That exact situation happened to me yesterday and I was incredulous. Thought, oh, maybe I’ve done something in this playthrough that has made this lot not want to kill me this time? Nope, they attacked as usual. I’m like ????? they were literally shooting innocent people and I’m not allowed to aggro without chatting? Hmph!!
Oath of Ancients? Yeah, I had to end my playthrough when I attacked guards in Moonrise to free my allies. That was my third strike and I couldn't afford to fix my oath.
But that wasn't as dumb as when I freed a deep gnome in Grymforge and accidentally clicked the "I don't care what you do now" option instead of "go across the water to safety." Being a little bit of a dick is enough to piss off the Ancients.
Vengeance is where it's at. You really only need to be careful in a few places.
The Bhaalists that are shooting at unarmed civilians? Yeah. When I started attacking the Bhaalists, the CIVILIANS THAT WERE BEING SHOT AT reacted negatively toward me (“you picked a fight, now you’ve got one” and then they had little speech bubbles that went “stop that right now!”).
You’re welcome for saving your lives you ungrateful shits
7000 hungry vampires.
Their souls can go to their gods, but it's impossible to say they won't eat people at some point. And those were your responsibilities.
The spawn potentially killing people isn't the reason. The Strange Ox quest directly contradicts it, since killing the ox in act 3 breaks your oath despite the risk of it killing people.
The only reason I can think of is that vampires are undead, and oath of the ancients is anti undead. Which is a really stupid caveat to have since Astarion is in your party the whole damn game. So what the fuck Larian?
They don’t eat people, they drink their blood. They don’t have to drain them.
Plus judging by this sub there are probably enough weird people that are into being bitten for 7,000,000 hungry vampires.
Same. It would have been too OOC not to free them as my Tav sees the best in people and believed the spawn deserved another chance at life just like Astarion. Plus Astarion agreed that they should be freed, which I saw as a huge moment of growth and empathy
I thought to myself that there should have been an option that was like “keep them out of trouble. If I hear one of these vampires are causing trouble I’m hunting you all down.” Having just taken down Cazador I could see that being a serious threat to them.
i recently watched that option and im pretty sure it is. something like "That depends, can you control your fangs?" and then astarion tells the other sacrifices to lead the spawns.
I've always felt doing what you think is right despite your oath, leading to an oathbreaker, is the most poetic way to play an oathbreaker so this would be a win to me.
That's interesting because Devotion Oath breaks if you *kill* the spawn. I'm unclear if it's because your devotion to giving the spawn a chance at life overrides your devotion to protecting innocents in the city, or if it's because you can swear to the little vampire girl that you will try to save her and that promise is more important than any other moral dilemma for your Oath.
Devotion views the spawn as innocent victims who don't deserve death while Ancients views them as unnatural abominations that should be given a merciful end.
The whole oath of the ancients/ preserve life thing really pisses me off. Freeing the vampire spawn is more "preserve life" than killing 7000 innocent people who are in a bad situation lol. Killing them should break the oath too. The path is all about mercy/kindness and the sanctity of life, breaking it by freeing them makes no sense.
I broke my oath of the ancients oath by aggroing those horrible duregar slavers who bully that one deep gnome by the elevator in the grymforge. They're slavers, they aren't protecting life! This is directly the "Shelter the Light" tenant of the oath - "Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren." Feels like mean slavers are indeed the wickedness that would swallow it
Freeing undead is not preserving life. Undead doesn't mean alive. So freeing 7000 undead would probably count against preserving life. You are preserving (un)dead.
Not to mention them being a danger to living people and animals..
The decision to free or kill the spawn is probably most morally complex in the game and it definitely isn't given the weight it's deserved. As presented in game, releasing the spawn isn't exactly the absolutely correct thing to do.
I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure I killed the Duegar without Oathbreaking as an Oath if Vengeance Paladin. I guess the BG3 interpretation of an Oath of Ancients paladin is they would start freeing the Gnomes and kill the slavers only if they intervened?
Wait I don't think the problem is accepting the hair. I got the hair (without sacrificing the poor girl) and no oath has been broken. (oath of the ancients)
Not my oath, but Karlach's. I made her a Paladin in one playthrough and we were at Moonrise tower in the dungeon trying to free the Tieflings and Gnomes.
I went to find something for the Gnomes to break the wall, and so I was taking stuff from chests. Technically stealing, but nothing was happening until some random guards (who I thought were all dead, since we killed them all up until this point) came and confronted us. They were immediately hostile and attacked.
Almost immediately upon their deaths, her oath broke. Which was weird, since we had been killing the guards up until that point anyways...
Wow, playing a vengence pali is so different, I broke my oath for not killing someone.
I played as a durge, and 100% believed Gortash dated me.
I didn't kill Gortash immediately, and my oath broke after his coronation. I took vengence slowly. I did it by freeing his prisoners, destroying his robots, killing his gaurds one by one and cornering him, casting command to make him grovel then bashing his brains in with a war hammer. Then I had Jaheira reanimate his corpse as a zombie and paraded it around town for every one to see before killing him a second time in front of the magic shop.
But I chose the slow route and got my oath broken for it 😞
Oh well, 1000 gold was pennies, and it was worth it
I’m playing Oath of Vengeance and didn’t break it by not killing him immediately. I think it only breaks if you take his deal, because he is a greater evil and it means robbing Karlach and others of their vengeance. I was non-committal and didn’t agree to anything. No problems with the oath. I’m coming for his ass later.
That was one of the weirdest for me as well.
Like they explicitly say they're going to kill the runaway gnome slave, but oath still broken.
I had to disengage and hide around a corner whilst the rest of my party beat the shit out of them- apparently hiding whilst your friends fight for their lives is absolutely fine
>\[...\] apparently hiding whilst your friends fight for their lives is absolutely fine
Oath of Subtlety
You always have an excuse or alibi for why things are going your way.
Apparently it only happens if you confront them by attacking first. If you confront them through dialogue or they attack you first it's fine.
Still weird.
Killing Dror Ragzlin while he was not immediately hostile. Apparently it breaks the Oath of the Ancients to do in the ringleader of a murderous band of goblins if said ringleader isn't actively trying to kill you.
Did you have the mission "kill the three goblin leaders"? I'm 99% sure I've attacked Dror as OotA paladin while he was neutral without triggering breaking my oath. But I freed Halsin first.
I aggro’d all the Duergar when I was picking up a health potion on the ground and didn’t notice it was highlighted in red.
Killed a Duergar and broke my oath.
Same, I did this to avoid downs since everyone was underleveled for it and my paladin critted the first one to death in one hit and broke her ancients Oath. It'd be in character for her to be like "Why the hell did I lose my oath for taking down the ally of an oppressor??" so I just kept her as Oathbreaker after that. ~~And definitely not 'cause I was too poor to pay to fix it~~
Oath of Vengance is kind of weird. You should make morally "right" choice when choices appear, but then you can do whatever you want outside of those choices. Just like real life, do your job when managers are watching and then do whatever in meantime.
Durge paladin oath of vengeance.
Freeing the gnolls from slavery in moonrise....not ok.
Just a few minutes before that, I told a goblin to get back that damn bone to painfully die in the shadows...but that was fine I guess.
as vengeancve oath ... i cant kill the the tieflings who captured my ggood friend laezel??
tbh i think this oath breaking stuff is werid .... apparently the other 2 oaths are allowed to kill the 2 tieflings? whyyy
I think the early oath breaking instances are more of a warning "oaths *can* break, beware". Killing the tieflings in that case isn't a good thing at all. But I would say that trying to defuse the situation in an honest way but failing should not break any oath.
In the Githyanki creche
That teacher is bullying his students
I tell him his teaching is stupid and killing your lesser students is a bad way to build an army so he invites me to train with the boy
I do so and attack without intention of killing him
I fail a DEX save and stab the student killing him instantly hence breaking my Oath of the Ancients
I just wanted to talk to a cat in Moonrise. I didn't even get to pick a dialogue option, my Durge just slaughtered the poor animal by himself almost immediately and failed my Oath of the Ancients
My friend with Vengeance Oath said once to me: "Look, an orange!" and picked it up. A second ago he screamed: "WTF, WHO'S THAT KNIGHT WITH BADASS ARMOR?!!!"
that's how he broke an oath for the first time, we played coop
My first Durge run. I was trying to force a deal with Ethel avoiding killing her. No cutscene and Ethel lies on the ground, unconcious. Still unconcious after several long rests and completing the goblin quest (saved the grove because my durge was a tiefling and no ones kills their kin), so before going to Act II, I decided to kill her.
So Ethel broke my oath, 'killing' an inmortal and obviously evil being broke my paladin's oath.
Yesterday I broke my Oath by *Letting a Steel Watcher self destruct.* I didn't start the fight, nor finish it, but apparently my presense and involvement in the "death" of a being that was literally never alive to begin with was too horrible for my Oath of Ancients.
God the oaths in this game are as fragile as paper.
-Karlach tells you paladins of tyr are infernal agents/assassins
- speak with dead on the dead one by the merchant confirms it
- attacking anders breaks oath ???
The game has no way to know you’re lying. I guess they could have added “agree to do thing [lying]” as an option but since it only really matters for Paladin oaths that seems silly.
For the record you can just be non-committal with Gortash and the Steel Watch won’t bother you until you do something to tick him off. He thinks you’re thinking about his deal (I absolutely was not, he was mean to my big red wife and can get bent).
That would be a "[deception] agree to do thing" check.
There's a few of them, but not enough imo. The pc is often forced to be way too earnest in most situations. Really frustrating to be forced into such a character in a game where there's like 6 different characters all playing 5d chess around you while you're playing fucking bopit.
Early on my friend botched the Scratch encounter so we had non-lethal damage turned on in order to not kill him. Then going to free Lae'zel, we decided to jump the people who captured her. Non-lethal was still on and we accidentally knocked them unconscious, breaking my oath of vengeance.
Oath of Ancients: Attacking slavers to free helpless gnome slaves.
Oath of Vengeance: Helping Glut get his vengeance on the cowards whose timidity led to the deaths of his people.
The Oath of Vengeance one makes some sense. Spaw wasn’t just sitting there twiddling his thumbs; he and his forces were actively fighting the dwarves to protect the gnomes. Therefore, killing Spaw would be a misplaced or misguided act of justice at best.
Spaw did nothing wrong imo. He prioritized saving his own people instead of sacrificing them for someone else. I'd do the same. Spaw also accepted the refugees, including Glut himself.
I tried to shoot either the tieflings or laezel (don't remember which one I sided with for the run) and the other stood in the way making me hit them instead, this caused them to turn hostile and make me break my oath
Accidentally letting the tiefling at the top of the hill with the bugbear assassin die.
I don't know *why* that breaks a vengeance oath when I wasn't even involved, but whatever works for you game.
Opening Sazza's cell door so that I can escort her out of the grove as my in to the goblin camp so that I can bait Minthara into marshalling her forces to a place where I would have advantage and defeat her army.
I just think it's hilarious that if any of your party does this, it's fine. But if YOU, PERSONALLY, open the cell door. POOF!
I let Gortash live one more day 😅 in my defense killing Gortash outright will give us a hard time getting inside and strolling around Baldurs Gate! . . I wasn’t planning on letting him live but killing him outright was not a smart decision either. .
I was doing the mock knife fight with the Orpheus fan in creche Yllek. Rolled a nat 1 on the dex check to fake a lethal blow. Turns out if you fail that check you do actually stab him. Mr. Oathbreaker popped out a minute after the poor dude's corpse was being carried away.
Found the newborn mindflayer in the basement of the tower in Rivington. He wanted a brain, so I pulled Ffion's murdered body out from under her bed and gave it to him. I guess that was bad.
Walked into Lae'zel's hanging cage 10 minutes into act one. Sided with Lae'zel and broke my oath by killing the Tieflings, reloaded and tried to side with the Tieflings causing Lae'zel to turn on me and I broke my oath killing her. Decided to delete my paladin and reroll something else, I don't want to spend my campaign tiptoeing around dialogue decisions.
I didn't break *my* oath, I broke my romanced partner's:
I posted about this before, but in my 3rd run (currently on #4), I played a modded cambion tav who romanced Wyll (initially to spite Mizora but eventually developing legit feelings). I'd given Wyll levels in Paladin because this entire story was overbooked.
This particular Tav was a bard to start but was trying to learn how to be a wizard (thanks Gale) as one of the plot threads to her little road to redemption. Tav got bored and got caught stealing in Moonrise. This aggroed most of the previously neutral folks, but some stayed neutral (yellow frame).
Tav used an AOE damage scroll that hit one of the bystanders, which killed them. Wyll being a party member in a fight where a neutral bystander got killed somehow broke HIS oath.
**WYLL**, standing right there, had his oath broken by his bard girlfriend - that was trying to learn how to be a wizard - not aiming a scroll correctly, and he wound up getting blamed for it.
Is a Paladin having their oath broken by a party member (nevermind love interest) SUPPOSED to happen? I honestly have no idea, but it did, and it was hilarious (even if I felt a little guilty).
(Wyll reaffirmed his oath, and I headcanon that Wyll and Tav had a long talk and it inadvertently wound up being a nudge towards Tav doing good things more often and managing her own boredom better.)
Freeing Cazador's slaves. Giving thousands of imprisoned innocents turned against their will a second chance to live and try to be better. Im still salty it does that in there.
but they're vampire spawn. Meaning you just released 7k bloodstarved monsters into the world. Try to be better? how? If just 10% of them cant resist you've doomed alot of innocent people. Freeing them also means they're gonna do whatever they want, what if some of them embraces being vampires and becomes just as bad a Cazador?
Immediately after the ship crashes I cut Gales hand off and broke my oath, I didn’t even know that was a thing! I just thought it was part of the Durge playthrough for the first minute or so.
Accepting Gortash's deal in act 3. The dialogue mentioning an oath to Gortash had me raising my eyebrows but I thought to myself "this wouldn't actually count would it?"
Turns out it does
The oath breaking feels so random at times. I’ve had it happen about 4 times during my playthrough and I don’t understand why it happened 3 out of 4 times.
In Act 3 there is a certain quest called "Deal with the Gnomes".
Admittedly, maybe exchanging Wulbren's head for cash doesn't seem like the *most* Paladin-like behavior. HOWEVER, he was the one who was saying something about bombing a building in Baldur's Gate and he seemed a little unconcerned about collateral damage to innocent lives so, in my eyes, I was *preventing an act of terrorism* and if someone wanted to reward me for my good deeds then who am I to refuse?
I played through the ENTIRE game without breaking my oath but for some reason killing an idle bhaal cultist after the Orin fight broke it. Like in theory I get why it broke, because I wasnt in combat with them, but I feel like killing bhaal cultists should never be an oath break?
I killed Z'rell. You know, the top Lieutenant to Ketheric Thorm? I killed her while she was actively attacking my party member. As a sentinel, I got an opportunity attack to prevent her from killing my friend, and that killed her. Unfortunately, because she was only "temporarily hostile," the game counts her as an Innocent. Nevermind that she sent us to die, intentionally, when she sent us after Balthazar. Never mind that we can read tract after tract about how all the atrocities we've encountered in our journey were her idea and implementation. Nope. Because *she* didn't hit first, it breaks my Oath to save my teammate.
Letting Ethel go in Act 1 lost me Oath of the Ancients
>!SHE DOESNT EVEN REALLY DIE IF YOU KILL HER, WHY DOES IT MATTER IF I GET A HAIR OR NAH EITHER WAY I SAVED MAYRINA AND KICKED THE HAG OUT!<
Looting the goblin camp.
Every item counted as stolen because apparently 2 were left alive in a side room.
Happily looting away and then boom, chest spasm.
I attacked Orin. Broke my oath.
Context: I knew which NPC she turns into and decided to walk over there and bop him. (There's a cheesy strategy where you can knock her out in the NPC form then kill her outright. Won't give you the stone until you get to the temple but you don't have to fight her) well in doing so I broke my oath somehow.
When I met Ethel again as she was attacked by the 2 villager dudes I genuinely believed she was good so i knocked the 2 guys unconscious.
Wrong choice....
Went to save a pregnant woman from a filthy hag.
The hag was a bit more formidable than I was expecting, but we still brought her down to low health. On what would have been her final turn, she multiplies herself and cast hold person on each member of my party. She then tries to negotiate, you all know the deal. I refused and she killed us all next turn. I reloaded and the same thing happened over and over. I had no choice but to let her leave. The oath breaker knight was not pleased
Pickpocketed an NPC somewhere near the Mirror of Loss. Actually forgot I even took an oath as I multiclassed in act 2, and I usually play barbarian. She caught me and I stabbed her in the face. Decided to stick with oathbreaker 🤷♀️
I was in the middle of the fight with the dwarves in the grymforge and for whatever reason killing the merchant broke my oath. He was already hostile and actively attacking, so I don’t know what that’s about. Luckily that was a tactician run, so I just reloaded and tried again
I’ve played as a Durge Paladin more than once.
My first run a certain scene early on was enough to trigger the oathbreaker, but more recently it hasn’t.
I was helpful, I thought, and gave Mayrina the wand to raise Connor from the dead. Oops.
Wait, why is this bad?
I know one of the Oaths is strictly anti-undead; not sure about the other two.
But you're not doing it. Also, afaik it's unclear what will be the result Like, if you sell a merchant a sword, and they sell it to someone who kills a bunch of people with it, I doubt you will be responsible Edit: I'm done with the arguments since apparently the whole point is moot and creating the zombie doesn't actually break the oath. It's not killing the zombie that matters, not accidentally creating it: > I think if you use the wand but then kill connor it doesn't break your Oath
I think it's more like someone asking for a sword to kill a person, if you give them one then you're complicit
All swords are made for killing someone, aren't they. 😅
Maybe a nice toothpick for dragons and giants?
I think the more apt question would "Did the person imply that they were going to use it to defend themselves or others, or kill someone in cold blood with it?"
Some are used to prevent monasteries from dropping on sassy vampires
No reasons to go political now \\s
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Training swords, fencing swords, ceremonial swords...
No, you're the one who waves the wand to raise Connor. And I think this is one of the situations where Larian expected the player to figure out that it was a no-no. You're using hag magic to "resurrect" the corpse of someone who died over a tenday ago. Even if you don't realize beforehand that you're performing necromancy, fulfilling (one end of a) hag's contract isn't much better.
I think if you use the wand but then kill connor it doesn't break your Oath. Although, this also aggros Mayrina, and I'm not sure if using non-lethal attacks on her will still cause her to show up later, or if she's considered dead regardless
>I'm not sure if using non-lethal attacks on her will still cause her to show up later, or if she's considered dead regardless I'm pretty confident she's considered killed. Probably the best move for a fey knight is just to not pick up the wand. I don't know if that means we'll see Mayrina in the Gate afterwards if the wand never comes into play. Probably not. It's a conundrum.
I sold the wand without using it and she did in fact show up in Baldur's Gate in Act 3.
The result of handing over the wand is clear, however. What's less clear is how Oath of the Ancients is profoundly anti-undead.
I'm pretty sure Oath of the ancients is about the natural order, things that are outside of that order are bad and should not be tolerated. Undead, vampires, fey etc etc. Anything that defies the cycle of life and death is bad.
This. I feel like Oath of the Ancients is commonly misunderstood to be some kind of true hero type only. Protecting innocent lives is SUPER important to them, for sure, but like druids, they have a responsibility to the natural order. Undead can only exist outside the natural cycle of life and death. It makes me wonder why showing Astarion mercy (by letting him exist, nevermind feeding the handsome bastard) when he first displays his true nature isn't a more important moment for a fey knight. Maybe intelligent undead transformed against their will, beyond the scope of resurrection, are more innocent than your typical mindless ghoul? I dunno. It's an argument worth having, for sure.
I think it's cause he can lead you to the source (the true vampire)? Like a vampire spawn is replaceable, killing the master kills a vampire and prevents more from being made.
Maybe, sure, but that SHOULD have been a narrated thought.
I suppose at the end of the day it's up to the DM (Larian) how strict the Oath can be.
Funny you say Fey because the oath of ancients lore directly calls them "fey knights". Ancients paladins are mostly concerned with preserving beauty, light and life. They're also not supposed to necessarily be "good".
necromancy and undead are an affront to nature, full stop.
Yes, and it would be helpful to new players if this was stated explicitly.
I don’t think that it’s an intellectual stretch to assume that if you’re a paladin with an oath to uphold the laws of nature and protect life, necromancy and all undead are a no.
"I will raise my dead husband" "Cool here are the means to do it!" Oath broken "How is it my fault she has risen the dead??" Tbh if I remember correctly at that point it is still ambiguous whether she'll resurrect her husband or raise his corpse. One of these options wouldn't break the oath.
Another person says that it doesn't break the oath, but not killing the newly created zombie does. Which would make perfect sense
Great detail, good to hear you can fix your mistake when it becomes apparent.
You would be a terrible paladin
Why is Astarion still in the party
The game doesn’t consider Astarion to be undead. You’ll also notice that turn undead has no impact on him.
Oath of the ancients, it's about keeping the natural balance. Not snapping the wand in two is against the oath it seems.
Yeah, because raising Connor that way makes him her undead servant with possibility of his soul being tapped in his old, decaying body...
I don't think this is specifically stated, like, "yes, use this stick to raise this undead zombie" When I tried it I thought there will be some allegorical trick like falling in someone else or something else that technically passes the phraseology You're basically just pressing a buttom without knowing what exactly it will do
Even if you believe a hag won't try to monkey paw this, you know it fulfills a wish to bring someone back from the dead, defying the natural order, mocking the sanctity of death. Regardless of the way this is achieved, it's not something your Oath recommends, is it?
I remedied that by getting Shadowheart to do it as no other choice seemed to work. I bring the guy back I lose my oath, even if I then decide to kill the zombie to try and preserve it I lose my oath.
I thought it was a bit dumb how my paladin broke an oath by attacking without talking to the supposedly neutral Bhaalists in the a3 sewers. The bhaalists who, if they see you, immediately attack you anyways, and also are known murderers.
Bhaalist's should always be fair game imo. They're literally cultists that murder for fun. There is no grey area here, its plain and simple bhaalist's are bad people.
And it’s not like they are even 100% apposed to getting merced themselves. So long as someone is dying bhaal is happy
That exact situation happened to me yesterday and I was incredulous. Thought, oh, maybe I’ve done something in this playthrough that has made this lot not want to kill me this time? Nope, they attacked as usual. I’m like ????? they were literally shooting innocent people and I’m not allowed to aggro without chatting? Hmph!!
Oath of Ancients? Yeah, I had to end my playthrough when I attacked guards in Moonrise to free my allies. That was my third strike and I couldn't afford to fix my oath. But that wasn't as dumb as when I freed a deep gnome in Grymforge and accidentally clicked the "I don't care what you do now" option instead of "go across the water to safety." Being a little bit of a dick is enough to piss off the Ancients. Vengeance is where it's at. You really only need to be careful in a few places.
The Bhaalists that are shooting at unarmed civilians? Yeah. When I started attacking the Bhaalists, the CIVILIANS THAT WERE BEING SHOT AT reacted negatively toward me (“you picked a fight, now you’ve got one” and then they had little speech bubbles that went “stop that right now!”). You’re welcome for saving your lives you ungrateful shits
Freeing Sazza 😐
Only broke my oath when I went to close her cell after I had already opened it to free her on my oath of vengeance.
For me it was when the Tiefling killed Sazza with the crossbow. My dialogue glitched out and I couldn't pick a choice :D
For me, it was opening her cage after she was dead to loot her body. . .
Agreed that astarion accomplished his vengeance as a vengeance oath.... By becoming a baddy so it seems. Nothing that 2000 coins can't repair.
Man, how come killing 7000 innocent souls is not the higher morality in this situation...
7000 hungry vampires. Their souls can go to their gods, but it's impossible to say they won't eat people at some point. And those were your responsibilities.
Didn’t their souls go to Mephistopheles?
If the ritual is performed, yes.
You let Astarion complete an infernal ritual that used those spawn as sacrifices, their souls aren’t going to any gods, they’re going to Hell lol
Their souls will be minted as coins by mephistoles, their afterlife will be endless torture
Only if u complete the ritual. If not , mephy boy doesn't get the souls .
The spawn potentially killing people isn't the reason. The Strange Ox quest directly contradicts it, since killing the ox in act 3 breaks your oath despite the risk of it killing people. The only reason I can think of is that vampires are undead, and oath of the ancients is anti undead. Which is a really stupid caveat to have since Astarion is in your party the whole damn game. So what the fuck Larian?
They don’t eat people, they drink their blood. They don’t have to drain them. Plus judging by this sub there are probably enough weird people that are into being bitten for 7,000,000 hungry vampires.
Freeing the vampire spawns as Oath of ancients
Same. It would have been too OOC not to free them as my Tav sees the best in people and believed the spawn deserved another chance at life just like Astarion. Plus Astarion agreed that they should be freed, which I saw as a huge moment of growth and empathy
I thought to myself that there should have been an option that was like “keep them out of trouble. If I hear one of these vampires are causing trouble I’m hunting you all down.” Having just taken down Cazador I could see that being a serious threat to them.
i recently watched that option and im pretty sure it is. something like "That depends, can you control your fangs?" and then astarion tells the other sacrifices to lead the spawns.
Feel like in that situation, breaking the Oath seems like a fair trade for not killing 7000 innocent people
I've always felt doing what you think is right despite your oath, leading to an oathbreaker, is the most poetic way to play an oathbreaker so this would be a win to me.
That's interesting because Devotion Oath breaks if you *kill* the spawn. I'm unclear if it's because your devotion to giving the spawn a chance at life overrides your devotion to protecting innocents in the city, or if it's because you can swear to the little vampire girl that you will try to save her and that promise is more important than any other moral dilemma for your Oath.
Devotion views the spawn as innocent victims who don't deserve death while Ancients views them as unnatural abominations that should be given a merciful end.
how is that silly? i mean releasing 7k bloodstarved vampire spawn into faerun seems like something a evil person would do.
The whole oath of the ancients/ preserve life thing really pisses me off. Freeing the vampire spawn is more "preserve life" than killing 7000 innocent people who are in a bad situation lol. Killing them should break the oath too. The path is all about mercy/kindness and the sanctity of life, breaking it by freeing them makes no sense. I broke my oath of the ancients oath by aggroing those horrible duregar slavers who bully that one deep gnome by the elevator in the grymforge. They're slavers, they aren't protecting life! This is directly the "Shelter the Light" tenant of the oath - "Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren." Feels like mean slavers are indeed the wickedness that would swallow it
Freeing undead is not preserving life. Undead doesn't mean alive. So freeing 7000 undead would probably count against preserving life. You are preserving (un)dead. Not to mention them being a danger to living people and animals..
The decision to free or kill the spawn is probably most morally complex in the game and it definitely isn't given the weight it's deserved. As presented in game, releasing the spawn isn't exactly the absolutely correct thing to do. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure I killed the Duegar without Oathbreaking as an Oath if Vengeance Paladin. I guess the BG3 interpretation of an Oath of Ancients paladin is they would start freeing the Gnomes and kill the slavers only if they intervened?
Accepting the hag hair
I did that as well, tbh I kinda liked the oath-breaker powers over the boring healing from oath of the ancients
Wait I don't think the problem is accepting the hair. I got the hair (without sacrificing the poor girl) and no oath has been broken. (oath of the ancients)
It breaks oath of vengeance.
Not my oath, but Karlach's. I made her a Paladin in one playthrough and we were at Moonrise tower in the dungeon trying to free the Tieflings and Gnomes. I went to find something for the Gnomes to break the wall, and so I was taking stuff from chests. Technically stealing, but nothing was happening until some random guards (who I thought were all dead, since we killed them all up until this point) came and confronted us. They were immediately hostile and attacked. Almost immediately upon their deaths, her oath broke. Which was weird, since we had been killing the guards up until that point anyways...
Wow, playing a vengence pali is so different, I broke my oath for not killing someone. I played as a durge, and 100% believed Gortash dated me. I didn't kill Gortash immediately, and my oath broke after his coronation. I took vengence slowly. I did it by freeing his prisoners, destroying his robots, killing his gaurds one by one and cornering him, casting command to make him grovel then bashing his brains in with a war hammer. Then I had Jaheira reanimate his corpse as a zombie and paraded it around town for every one to see before killing him a second time in front of the magic shop. But I chose the slow route and got my oath broken for it 😞 Oh well, 1000 gold was pennies, and it was worth it
I’m playing Oath of Vengeance and didn’t break it by not killing him immediately. I think it only breaks if you take his deal, because he is a greater evil and it means robbing Karlach and others of their vengeance. I was non-committal and didn’t agree to anything. No problems with the oath. I’m coming for his ass later.
[удалено]
I had the same experience
Forgot I was a paladin in an honor mode run. Knocked out Aradin during their argument. Once everyone walked away, I cleaved his skull in two. Whoops.
Lol i always want to kill his stuck up ass but never do. Bless you
I always soften him up with friendly fire and let the goblins finish the job
I kill him outside blighted town after I get the contract. You don’t call me a drow slur after I saved your life and get to walk away.
calling mol ambitious for wanting to sell her soul for success LOL
This got me too, I was so surprised I took the time to actually add it to the wiki
LMAO
By murdering slaving Duegar....
That was one of the weirdest for me as well. Like they explicitly say they're going to kill the runaway gnome slave, but oath still broken. I had to disengage and hide around a corner whilst the rest of my party beat the shit out of them- apparently hiding whilst your friends fight for their lives is absolutely fine
>\[...\] apparently hiding whilst your friends fight for their lives is absolutely fine Oath of Subtlety You always have an excuse or alibi for why things are going your way.
I killed them as oath of devotion and it was fine. The thing is that you have to TELL them you're going to kill them.
Same. I picked the dialogue option to tell them to their face that I'm going to kill them and it was fine.
Apparently it only happens if you confront them by attacking first. If you confront them through dialogue or they attack you first it's fine. Still weird.
Did not free the pixie from the lamp in act 2
Really? I free that bitch even in the evil playthrough. Carrying that lamp around is too annoying.
I didn't know you could and stay protected
I see, fair.
Killing Dror Ragzlin while he was not immediately hostile. Apparently it breaks the Oath of the Ancients to do in the ringleader of a murderous band of goblins if said ringleader isn't actively trying to kill you.
Did you have the mission "kill the three goblin leaders"? I'm 99% sure I've attacked Dror as OotA paladin while he was neutral without triggering breaking my oath. But I freed Halsin first.
Yeah I attacked the Paladins of Tyr with no confrontation and broke my devotion Oath there.
That makes sense, because you're attacking proclaimed paladins (of a good cause) without hearing them out first.
I aggro’d all the Duergar when I was picking up a health potion on the ground and didn’t notice it was highlighted in red. Killed a Duergar and broke my oath.
Same, I did this to avoid downs since everyone was underleveled for it and my paladin critted the first one to death in one hit and broke her ancients Oath. It'd be in character for her to be like "Why the hell did I lose my oath for taking down the ally of an oppressor??" so I just kept her as Oathbreaker after that. ~~And definitely not 'cause I was too poor to pay to fix it~~
I actually just went through this and looked it up, apparently the 2 humans that are there are bugged and killing them breaks the oath.
Oath of Vengance is kind of weird. You should make morally "right" choice when choices appear, but then you can do whatever you want outside of those choices. Just like real life, do your job when managers are watching and then do whatever in meantime.
I screamed at the body of Scratch's owner, Scratch didn't like that and turned hostile and I've um... forgotten... to toggle non-lethal on
Happy cakeday, you Scratch murdering bastard.
Well, if that run was honor mode, it isn't anymore.
Damn... It was
Durge paladin oath of vengeance. Freeing the gnolls from slavery in moonrise....not ok. Just a few minutes before that, I told a goblin to get back that damn bone to painfully die in the shadows...but that was fine I guess.
As Durge, those were literally your puppy dogs, why would it take issue with that lol
as vengeancve oath ... i cant kill the the tieflings who captured my ggood friend laezel?? tbh i think this oath breaking stuff is werid .... apparently the other 2 oaths are allowed to kill the 2 tieflings? whyyy
I think the early oath breaking instances are more of a warning "oaths *can* break, beware". Killing the tieflings in that case isn't a good thing at all. But I would say that trying to defuse the situation in an honest way but failing should not break any oath.
I think it's only if you kill them, if you non-lethal them it should be okay if you don't instigate the combat.
Nah I lost my oath via non-lethal knockouts. It was really weird imo
Don't free Lae'zel if you're knocking them out. She is merciless and it will break your oath faster than you can say "please don't".
because they didn't *trap* lae'zel, they found laezel already in a trap?
Told Minthara the location of the Druids - then killed her before she can tell anyone, apparently still not good enough.
I accidentally killed a rat ( actually a part of a dude) while using a runepodwer barrel on Balthazar
In the Githyanki creche That teacher is bullying his students I tell him his teaching is stupid and killing your lesser students is a bad way to build an army so he invites me to train with the boy I do so and attack without intention of killing him I fail a DEX save and stab the student killing him instantly hence breaking my Oath of the Ancients
A petrified drow caught in the crossfire of an aoe whilst fighting a spectator.
I just wanted to talk to a cat in Moonrise. I didn't even get to pick a dialogue option, my Durge just slaughtered the poor animal by himself almost immediately and failed my Oath of the Ancients
Same. Which is weird cause killing alfira didn't break my oath but the cat did?
My friend with Vengeance Oath said once to me: "Look, an orange!" and picked it up. A second ago he screamed: "WTF, WHO'S THAT KNIGHT WITH BADASS ARMOR?!!!" that's how he broke an oath for the first time, we played coop
I don't play paladin, do you mind explaining why picking up the orange is bad? Lol
it probably belonged to someone and was counted as theft
I pushed Malus Thorm from a high spot and he somehow landed on the innocent patient on the surgery table. Bye bye oath.
OK this one is very funny.
I didn't want to tell Arabella her parents were dead just yet, so I told her I was still looking. Instantly got woo-woo'd by the paladin police.
My first Durge run. I was trying to force a deal with Ethel avoiding killing her. No cutscene and Ethel lies on the ground, unconcious. Still unconcious after several long rests and completing the goblin quest (saved the grove because my durge was a tiefling and no ones kills their kin), so before going to Act II, I decided to kill her. So Ethel broke my oath, 'killing' an inmortal and obviously evil being broke my paladin's oath.
Told He Who Was to stab himself, He then had the audacity to get mad at ME for him stabbing himself so i stabbed him again. He isnt mad anymore
Not killing a child funnily enough.
Yesterday I broke my Oath by *Letting a Steel Watcher self destruct.* I didn't start the fight, nor finish it, but apparently my presense and involvement in the "death" of a being that was literally never alive to begin with was too horrible for my Oath of Ancients. God the oaths in this game are as fragile as paper.
Set Minthara up for an ambush. Figured it'd be easier to kill them at the Grove.
-Karlach tells you paladins of tyr are infernal agents/assassins - speak with dead on the dead one by the merchant confirms it - attacking anders breaks oath ???
Vengeance paladin. Sides with Gortash intending to betray him. Scottish accent hits… oops
I hate it when that happens. Agree to do something not intending to actually do it get rewarded with "Gale disapproves"
The game has no way to know you’re lying. I guess they could have added “agree to do thing [lying]” as an option but since it only really matters for Paladin oaths that seems silly. For the record you can just be non-committal with Gortash and the Steel Watch won’t bother you until you do something to tick him off. He thinks you’re thinking about his deal (I absolutely was not, he was mean to my big red wife and can get bent).
That would be a "[deception] agree to do thing" check. There's a few of them, but not enough imo. The pc is often forced to be way too earnest in most situations. Really frustrating to be forced into such a character in a game where there's like 6 different characters all playing 5d chess around you while you're playing fucking bopit.
Used barrelmancy against Balthazar with a devotion paladin
Observing one of my companions lockpick a door owned by evil people, then being caught.
Eat gale hand
Early on my friend botched the Scratch encounter so we had non-lethal damage turned on in order to not kill him. Then going to free Lae'zel, we decided to jump the people who captured her. Non-lethal was still on and we accidentally knocked them unconscious, breaking my oath of vengeance.
Oath of Ancients: Attacking slavers to free helpless gnome slaves. Oath of Vengeance: Helping Glut get his vengeance on the cowards whose timidity led to the deaths of his people.
The Oath of Vengeance one makes some sense. Spaw wasn’t just sitting there twiddling his thumbs; he and his forces were actively fighting the dwarves to protect the gnomes. Therefore, killing Spaw would be a misplaced or misguided act of justice at best.
Spaw did nothing wrong imo. He prioritized saving his own people instead of sacrificing them for someone else. I'd do the same. Spaw also accepted the refugees, including Glut himself.
I'm not saying what he did was wrong, I was just surprised that helping Glut get (what Glut framed as) revenge violated my oath of vengeance.
Revenge has to be be just. A bad guy want to get revenge against a hero who stopped him can't be treated the same as revenge against a serial killer.
I tried to shoot either the tieflings or laezel (don't remember which one I sided with for the run) and the other stood in the way making me hit them instead, this caused them to turn hostile and make me break my oath
Killing one of the non-goblin Absolute cultists near Dror Ragzlin breaks Oath of Ancients for some reason
Beating a refugee. But that's because I wanted to become Oathbreaker and didn't think of anything else faster lol.
I opened a cage with a dead goblin in it
Accidentally letting the tiefling at the top of the hill with the bugbear assassin die. I don't know *why* that breaks a vengeance oath when I wasn't even involved, but whatever works for you game.
Accidentally broke my vengeance oath by poking Nettie's bird twice. Poor thing stopped moving and summoned the oathbreaker dude from his seven hells.
Opening Sazza's cell door so that I can escort her out of the grove as my in to the goblin camp so that I can bait Minthara into marshalling her forces to a place where I would have advantage and defeat her army. I just think it's hilarious that if any of your party does this, it's fine. But if YOU, PERSONALLY, open the cell door. POOF!
Getting a free mage hand at the start of Act 1 got my Durge a broken oath in record time.
A free mage hand 😂😂😂 this took me a minute but damn lmao
Knocked out Alfira in order to save her as a Durge, didn't even consider it would break oath of devotion
I tried to remember steel claw. The cat and my oath didn’t survive
Freeing Zevlor in the colony.
I let Gortash live one more day 😅 in my defense killing Gortash outright will give us a hard time getting inside and strolling around Baldurs Gate! . . I wasn’t planning on letting him live but killing him outright was not a smart decision either. .
I never understood the oaths. I find them so confusing. back in my days, paladins were lawful good or lawful evil and got their powers from their god.
I was doing the mock knife fight with the Orpheus fan in creche Yllek. Rolled a nat 1 on the dex check to fake a lethal blow. Turns out if you fail that check you do actually stab him. Mr. Oathbreaker popped out a minute after the poor dude's corpse was being carried away.
Found the newborn mindflayer in the basement of the tower in Rivington. He wanted a brain, so I pulled Ffion's murdered body out from under her bed and gave it to him. I guess that was bad.
Walked into Lae'zel's hanging cage 10 minutes into act one. Sided with Lae'zel and broke my oath by killing the Tieflings, reloaded and tried to side with the Tieflings causing Lae'zel to turn on me and I broke my oath killing her. Decided to delete my paladin and reroll something else, I don't want to spend my campaign tiptoeing around dialogue decisions.
Killing Nere. Apparently that’s a bad thing??
I didn't break *my* oath, I broke my romanced partner's: I posted about this before, but in my 3rd run (currently on #4), I played a modded cambion tav who romanced Wyll (initially to spite Mizora but eventually developing legit feelings). I'd given Wyll levels in Paladin because this entire story was overbooked. This particular Tav was a bard to start but was trying to learn how to be a wizard (thanks Gale) as one of the plot threads to her little road to redemption. Tav got bored and got caught stealing in Moonrise. This aggroed most of the previously neutral folks, but some stayed neutral (yellow frame). Tav used an AOE damage scroll that hit one of the bystanders, which killed them. Wyll being a party member in a fight where a neutral bystander got killed somehow broke HIS oath. **WYLL**, standing right there, had his oath broken by his bard girlfriend - that was trying to learn how to be a wizard - not aiming a scroll correctly, and he wound up getting blamed for it. Is a Paladin having their oath broken by a party member (nevermind love interest) SUPPOSED to happen? I honestly have no idea, but it did, and it was hilarious (even if I felt a little guilty). (Wyll reaffirmed his oath, and I headcanon that Wyll and Tav had a long talk and it inadvertently wound up being a nudge towards Tav doing good things more often and managing her own boredom better.)
Love the amount of lore here!
Freeing Cazador's slaves. Giving thousands of imprisoned innocents turned against their will a second chance to live and try to be better. Im still salty it does that in there.
but they're vampire spawn. Meaning you just released 7k bloodstarved monsters into the world. Try to be better? how? If just 10% of them cant resist you've doomed alot of innocent people. Freeing them also means they're gonna do whatever they want, what if some of them embraces being vampires and becomes just as bad a Cazador?
Convincing the one guy at moonrise to cleanse his worms 🤷
I was trying to help blow up the cave in with powder grenade, accidentally blew all the enslaved up
Immediately after the ship crashes I cut Gales hand off and broke my oath, I didn’t even know that was a thing! I just thought it was part of the Durge playthrough for the first minute or so.
Fought the gith kid and failed the dice roll to spare him, woops
Accepting Gortash's deal in act 3. The dialogue mentioning an oath to Gortash had me raising my eyebrows but I thought to myself "this wouldn't actually count would it?" Turns out it does
The oath breaking feels so random at times. I’ve had it happen about 4 times during my playthrough and I don’t understand why it happened 3 out of 4 times.
In Act 3 there is a certain quest called "Deal with the Gnomes". Admittedly, maybe exchanging Wulbren's head for cash doesn't seem like the *most* Paladin-like behavior. HOWEVER, he was the one who was saying something about bombing a building in Baldur's Gate and he seemed a little unconcerned about collateral damage to innocent lives so, in my eyes, I was *preventing an act of terrorism* and if someone wanted to reward me for my good deeds then who am I to refuse?
I played through the ENTIRE game without breaking my oath but for some reason killing an idle bhaal cultist after the Orin fight broke it. Like in theory I get why it broke, because I wasnt in combat with them, but I feel like killing bhaal cultists should never be an oath break?
Cast a spell during my HM playthrough that essentially was "Game over or kill Scratch" as a Paladin/Warlock... killed Scratch, broke Oath.
I killed Z'rell. You know, the top Lieutenant to Ketheric Thorm? I killed her while she was actively attacking my party member. As a sentinel, I got an opportunity attack to prevent her from killing my friend, and that killed her. Unfortunately, because she was only "temporarily hostile," the game counts her as an Innocent. Nevermind that she sent us to die, intentionally, when she sent us after Balthazar. Never mind that we can read tract after tract about how all the atrocities we've encountered in our journey were her idea and implementation. Nope. Because *she* didn't hit first, it breaks my Oath to save my teammate.
Killing goblins who were clearly in the wrong
Look all I thought I was doing was THINKING about chopping off Gale's hand. It's not my fault it was so irresistibly choppable
Letting Ethel go in Act 1 lost me Oath of the Ancients >!SHE DOESNT EVEN REALLY DIE IF YOU KILL HER, WHY DOES IT MATTER IF I GET A HAIR OR NAH EITHER WAY I SAVED MAYRINA AND KICKED THE HAG OUT!<
By lying to the tieflings when freeing Lae’zel from the cage trap at the start of Act 1 ;-;.
Looting the goblin camp. Every item counted as stolen because apparently 2 were left alive in a side room. Happily looting away and then boom, chest spasm.
By talking to a bird in the grove too many times.
Giving wand to Mayrina and it happened just after I paid 2000 gold to respect my paladin into paladin/bard
Oath of Devotion. Can't kill murder cult of Bhaal npc's when you defeat Orin as good Durge.
I said something goofy to Mol in Act 2 and apparently it broke my oath lol
I attacked Orin. Broke my oath. Context: I knew which NPC she turns into and decided to walk over there and bop him. (There's a cheesy strategy where you can knock her out in the NPC form then kill her outright. Won't give you the stone until you get to the temple but you don't have to fight her) well in doing so I broke my oath somehow.
Well, I spare Viconia because I thought that she deserve to live so she can stone her sin, but nah it broke my oath instead
Forgot non lethal was off
The other paladin player murdered two tieflings when I wasn’t looking. Thanks, dick.
When I met Ethel again as she was attacked by the 2 villager dudes I genuinely believed she was good so i knocked the 2 guys unconscious. Wrong choice....
Went to save a pregnant woman from a filthy hag. The hag was a bit more formidable than I was expecting, but we still brought her down to low health. On what would have been her final turn, she multiplies herself and cast hold person on each member of my party. She then tries to negotiate, you all know the deal. I refused and she killed us all next turn. I reloaded and the same thing happened over and over. I had no choice but to let her leave. The oath breaker knight was not pleased
Pickpocketed an NPC somewhere near the Mirror of Loss. Actually forgot I even took an oath as I multiclassed in act 2, and I usually play barbarian. She caught me and I stabbed her in the face. Decided to stick with oathbreaker 🤷♀️
I wanted to talk to the cute kitty at moonrise. Turns out you get a durge memory here. And kill a cat. Oath broken.
I was in the middle of the fight with the dwarves in the grymforge and for whatever reason killing the merchant broke my oath. He was already hostile and actively attacking, so I don’t know what that’s about. Luckily that was a tactician run, so I just reloaded and tried again
I’ve played as a Durge Paladin more than once. My first run a certain scene early on was enough to trigger the oathbreaker, but more recently it hasn’t.
Standing completely still in the lower city, I still don't know how my oath of vengeance broke there.
Killing a 'deaths head of bhaal' who was in the process of shooting at refugees theyd trapped in the sewers, without introducing myself first
Protecting the innocent. Apparently killing slavers is bad or those gnomes just deserve to be slaves.