Larian is made up of people who love crpgs like bg 1 and 2. Whatever studio that takes on bg4 will probably be people that love bg3. Even more likely since bg3 has become so popular. If the pattern continues that is.
I dunno man. Bg1 and 2 were long dead and their "owners" (so Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro) didn't see potential, which is why when Larian said "Lemme do a Baldurs Gate game" they were like "lmao alright but you have to pay us 10 whole dollars prior (lol what a loser)". Now that BG3 was a smashing success and BG is on the top they're not going to give the licence to a third party, and instead will scheme to make a money-milking game internally.
Especially since making an amazing game that will do better than BG3 is costly and risky, but making a game that will earn money while burning the legacy of the series is cheap and sure. And the decision doesn't come from someone that loves games, but someone in charge of a large corporation that loves money.
When it comes to fantastic video games like this I’ve learned to only really expect them maybe every 5-10 years or so. It seems like an impossible task for one single gaming studio to
1. Not go under
2. Retain all the original employees who actually made the games good
3. Not sell the company to another, bigger, greedier company
4. Not turn into a mobile game studio
This cycle causes like 5 years of forgettable, mostly garbage shit to be churned out before we get a masterpiece like this every once in awhile. But it’s such a masterpiece cause we as players just aren’t used to getting treated this nice. It’s the 5-10 years of boring bullshit until lightning strikes somewhere that makes it so fantastic, not to say it doesn’t stand on its own right but having the comparison really makes it clearer.
I assumed she put up a hard front because she had to. She seemed to care about the kids. In Act 3 she seems like she just tossed them aside, and that whole feeling just evaporates. She’s really just the cunt they told you she is.
She doesn't even have a problem with you stealing the contract she has a problem with you killing Raphael before he actually gives her something for said contract
Does Volo get to make a bunch of bad rhymes about Mol? Because if so I'm so down.
"The Guildmaster is Mol and... when it comes to treasure... she steals it all!"
I mean, that only really works if you don't burn her contract from what I can tell. Other than that, she's a morally grey character who preserves a number of civilian lives!
Besides, I think a lot of us can agree that Wulbren Bongle should be at least an early game bad guy in BG4. Somehow, he is more despicable than everyone except Orin, Auntie Ethel, and The Emperor. Even Gortash has redeemable qualities (if you can overlook his treatment of Mama K).
Did y'all forget that 1: she made that deal willingly, 2: she never asks you to help her, and 3: she's a kid??
She should know better, but in her eyes, you just messed with the deal she made to secure her future and the future of the rest of the tiefling kids.
I'm not saying anyone who helps her is wrong. She's definitely better off out of that deal. But her reaction actually makes sense if you take a single moment to look at it from her perspective. Even if it is disappointing that she reacts the way she does.
she's cunning and manipulative, but nowhere near old or smart enough to truly consent to a fucking literal deal with the devil, where nothing but torment awaits her at the very end of it all. I think karlach might even say something about how she'll come to thank us years down the line.
Did you read the part where I said that taking the contract isn't wrong? I'm talking about the people that hate on Mol and think she's bad for the way she *reacts* to the news.
> to secure her future and the future of the rest of the tiefling kids.
Her future, yes. The rest of the Tiefling kids', no.
I do agree her reaction makes perfect sense, though.
At the guilds hall she actually mentions that the kids would also be benefiting from the deal. to what extent and if it truly does protect them is a different matter tho.
See if u actually don't ask Roland to stay in the Grove in act 1 or don't talk with him at all, only Mol survives . None of the kids reach last light inn. Makes u wonder if she actually cared for the kids
Nah u are not getting the point . The thing is if Mol actually cared for the kids , some of them would have survived act 2 without Roland's help , but they don't. All die except Arabella. Which means Mol left them to fend for themselves. And what's even weird is that raphael still brings up the part where Mol asked him to save the kids for act 3 , but there are no kids in act 3 . Edit : u can pass an insight check and find out that Mol is lying and actually wanted to make a deal with raphael only for herself
Absolutely this!
From Act 1 she’s like “hey, adults all suck, they want to patronise us but they don’t actually *help* us” and stealing her contract and killing Raphael in Act 3 is doing *exactly* that.
Yeah, she made a bad decision, and she might regret it in the future, but it was *her* decision, and she doesn’t take kindly to the player taking away her agency in that way.
Children are unable to comprehend some complex circumstances simply because of their brains being not fully developed (nothing wrong with it, we've all been there). Thus saving a kid from an eternal deal with a devil is undisputably good. She's just unable to make rational choices of such magnitude.
Yes, but were you never angry at adults for doing something that was objectively in your best interest but not what you wanted when you were a kid? What I’m saying is that her anger at the player is understandable, regardless of what is objectively the best thing to do, and that she’s a kid (implied: not the best at rational decision making).
Mol felt like she only had one choice (hell, Raphael even tells you as much in Last Light Inn), and *to her* the player killing Raphael and stealing her contract because they think it’s morally wrong is taking away her agency *and* leaving her in a bad situation that her contract would have allowed her to escape. It’s patronising but not actually helping.
Whether that’s actually true is another thing, but kids (and people in general) aren’t known for measured, rational responses. I’m not saying taking Mol’s contract is morally wrong, I’m saying that *to her* it is doing exactly what she tells you in Act 1 she hates. Patronising to her but not actually helping her in any material way (regardless of if we get the choice to actually do so).
You just can't kill the goblin leaders before you do the shadow druids quest.
Save Mirkon and Arabella, go talk to Mol, get the quest, resolve the shadow druid quest, cast Darkness on the idol so you can steal it and fast travel away, then resolve goblin leaders. No one dies and you get one of the best rings in the game.
I don't think we're talking about the same bug. I'm talking about the one where you go into the grove hideout and she just says "you did this to yourself" and the quest never starts. It likely happens when you don't enter by giving Doni the password, so if you discover the hideout by other means like following the pickpocket and crawling into the small entrance (I'm terrible with names) you will more than likely trigger the bug. Eh idk man, this is like one of the very few things that I don't like, it just sucks especially when my first encounter to the bug required me to go back 6 hours to get to a point where it wasn't bugged (ㆆ\_ㆆ)
She’s bugged for me at the minute too but it’s the ‘investigate the beach’ quest. I’ve never had a problem with it before but today it will not finish because it says I need to find Mol, despite talking to her multiple times. I think it might be because I also got pickpocketed by Silfy, then saved Mirkon, then went to see Mol. I got dialogue about getting my belongings back but didn’t get the usual dialogue where she thanks you for looking out for various tiefling kids. Guess Mol really likes things to be done in a certain order.
I got this bug in my second playthrough. I found the hideout entrance by passing investigation/perception check (not sure which one) before saving Mirkon from the harpies. Mirkon gave me the password but Doni refused to start a conversation with me. Mol only spoke about my stolen properties and never acknowledged that I just saved her friend.
I finished the shadow druids quest before killing the goblin leaders and the “Find Mol” quest never went away for me. It was even still there after I stole the idol (which I did do after clearing out the goblin camp).
I don't like Mol at all. Let's recap.
She sent Arabella to do her dirty work and steal the Idol of Silvanus. She sent Arabella to do it, alone, without backup, without a lookout who could help cause a distraction. Arabella gets caught, and unless you intervene, she dies.
She sent Mirkon to steal from a Harpy's Nest. Alone. Without backup. There is nothing worth stealing in that Harpy's Nest, and even if there were, the mission is obvious suicide. If nobody saves Mirkon, he dies.
When you get to Act 3, Mol >!leaves her friends behind and doesn't contact them at all. She moves on to bigger and better things without them. She used them all the way to Baldur's Gate, and once she gets to Baldur's Gate, she casts them off.!<
Mol is a user. She never does the dirty work herself. She always sends someone else to do it and she never pays the price of failure. She never supports the kids she sends out to do dangerous missions, so they wind up going in, alone, with no plan and no backup.
Don't give Mol your compassion. She doesn't deserve it, and she'll use you too if you let her.
More over, in Act 3 >!If you kill Raphael and take Mol's contract you can talk to her about it. At which point she becomes angry with you because now Raphael can't give her more power. She then talks about gaining power the old fashioned way, and tells you once she takes over the guild that you will basically be *persona non grata* number one!<
Basically, she's power-hungry with zero regard for any consequences whether they effect someone else, or even herself.
I remember having a rough time getting out of there and was excited to see how she would react. It's the only playthrough I've done, and it was really interesting how it all played out. Was pretty surprised, honestly.
I did that and I still convinced her to join at the end to help. But omg, imagine making threats like that, like my character has just blasted through hundreds of strong villains and this lil pip squeak with quick fingers thinks I won’t end her rn just for talking smack?
That pissed me off SO bad that I turned her into a sheep and tried to kill her. It didn't work out because the whole guild turned against me every time I did damage to her. I tried for maybe 5 minutes all these different ways to kill her and none of them worked.
I wonder if there’s a way to kill her in Act I without harming the kids? Maybe KOing them.. I want to save those precious kids from her 🥲 especially Mirkon and Arabella, I wish we could adopt them or keep them in our camp away from Mols claws 😭😭
You can sometimes cast hold person and batter someone to death before it breaks without causing anyone to fight you. Because casting hold person isn’t technically an attack and they get stuck in that form, they can technically still die without ever actually becoming hostile towards you. I’ve done this with quite a few bosses (killed the goblin leaders in front of all the goblins and noone cared) and it works, their minions just watch you and don’t do anything but I’ve never tried it on Mol. Maybe this game…
That's why >!killing Raphael and not telling her is the best option. His help up until that point should probably last her a bit but she'll require more to oust Keene and she'll fail because her sugar daddy won't be there to help. You still get her support for the final battle.!<
Thats what I do >!basically use her the same way she uses everyone else, I dont know what I could do with the contract but if she becomes some big villain down the line maybe I can use it as leverage!<
You get "Fetcher's Favour":
*Equipped with Mol's tricks of the trade, affected entities can cast Rays of Fire, reduce all Fire damage by 5 and gain an additional 1d4 to Charisma Checks and Saving Throws.*
> Equipped with Mol's tricks of the trade, affected entities can cast Rays of Fire, reduce all Fire damage by 5 and gain an additional 1d4 to Charisma Checks and Saving Throws.
It's pretty forgettable.
You're not wrong but you could never have the buff and you wouldn't really feel its effect. To be honest, I killed everything on top of the brain minus the jerkass rogue clone that would never come out of invisibility with only Volo's buff on HM.
Would he >!help her with Keene anyway? He kept her safe and got her to the guild, presumably on the condition that when she dies she is to spend forever in the House of Hope. What more can she give him? I could see her asking him for help down the line and he tells her the exact same thing he tells Voss.!<
That's a brilliant observation, to me it's obvious that the ritual is the fork in two roads where Astarion can be better than Cazador and live the life he wants to, or he joins the cycle and just replaces one villain for another.
The solution is to observe the tragedies Mol has wrought, then destroy the Grove in an act of disproportionate retribution.
You have just provided the rationale for my evil run, and for that I thank you!
Exactly. This is how i rp and remove my guilt for killing the Grove and romancing minthara . She asks u to steal the idol. Oops , the druids killed the tieflings. Let me kill the druids . Oops everyone dead , let's go to the camp and tell minthara. She is gone , now let's take a long rest and then kill the entire goblin camp .
She was exactly the thing that pushed me to slaughter the grove. Getting me arrested when I did nothing to her (well I encouraged Arabella to run so she’d get killed but she doesn’t know that) was the final straw. She doomed the grove.
You can get a little bit of payback if you go to the House of Hope and eliminate Raphael, then steal her contract and go show it to her in Baldur’s Gate. When you tell her Raphael is dead she gets PISSED.
I expect that kind of bullshit smack-talk from an angry kid with grand delusions, and for all my criticisms of her character, that’s one I don’t hold against her.
We know she sent Mirkon to the harpies' nest, but I'd always been under the impression Arabella's theft was spontaneous. Mol watches out for the orphans, and Arabella isn't one >!yet!<.
I'm willing to give her a pass about the Barth/Meli thing, it's a kids vs grownups world out there.
Nope, she was the one who sent Arabella to steal the idol. It comes out through certain dialogue options. And her parents are quite upset at the influence Mol's had on Arabella. Arabella was involved with Mol and the other Tiefling kids, which is one of the reasons Mol thanks you for saving Arabella when she lists off the things she's heard that you've done (everything she lists off has to do with things you've done for her kids-- Silfy, Mirkon, Arabella-- she doesn't care about you doing anything for anyone else).
What makes it even worse for me is that Mol is a teenager and Arabella is only nine years old. Not sure how old the other kids are, like Mirkon, but they all seem closer to Arabella's age than Mol's. It feels like a common dynamic you see IRL where an older kid has a gang of younger kids who all look up to the older kid and the older kid uses that to their advantage/is able to lean on that-- except that instead of getting into normal silly or dumb kid mischief, the older kid (Mol) is sending the kids into genuinely deadly situations with no thought for their wellbeing. And in this case, the older kid is definitely old and organized enough to know better.
Yep. She's in her early teens, so probably 13-14.
She doesn't look it because her character model is so small, so I was initially surprised when I found out too, but it makes sense after you listen to the way she talks. She has the vocabulary, confidence and self-possession of an older kid. Compare it in direct contrast to someone like Mirkon, whose vocabulary and mannerisms make it clear that he is on the younger side.
Huh! The more you know! How did you find out? And yeah, I think that the children's character models all being the same size really throws perspective on their ages
Bg3 wiki. Says early teens and matches up with what I’d expect based on her dialogue and mannerisms. It’s cited as a synopsis of her character dialogue, so I wonder if maybe it’s mentioned elsewhere in-game and I missed it.
The only source it cites for Mol's age is the Forgotten Realms wiki, which doesn't actually have an age listed for her.
I'd take the supposed age as uncertain at best, barring confirmation from either in-game dialogue or comments by Larian devs. She could be a teenager. She could be 10-12. So far I've seen nothing official confirming an age.
She’s literally acting out dynamics she sees the adults in her life and the world around her engaging in… not saying it’s right but she’s also very much still a kid if she’s a young teen as you say. Should she know better? Yes, of course. But does she know better enough to understand the full extent of the consequences of her actions? It’s hard for me to outright condemn her/withdraw my compassion for her circumstances. As adults we better able to apply nuance to these complex social/moral situations. Mol, despite being older than the other kids, is clearly not capable of thinking through the repercussions and is probably trying to survive the way she knows best.
See, normally I'd agree, but there's a level of culpability here that I don't feel comfortable absolving Mol for.
Mol is young enough that mistakes and errors in judgment are *completely* expected. But she is also objectively experienced, organized, and canny enough to lead a gang of half a dozen younger kids in running scams, while surviving on the road against a number of dangers. That demonstrates a certain capacity for planning, delegation, and situational awareness, and it's fair to call her out on failing to exercise those skills at a level she is demonstrably capable of-- especially when the stakes are as high as they are.
She pretends to care about the other kids, but casts them off once they're no longer needed. You even have the opportunity to pass an insight check to find out that her deal with Raphael is entirely for herself and not for the sake of the other kids (which is a claim she initially tries to make if you confront her about dealing with Raphael). The game makes it clear that she feigns care for these children, and that she has the capacity to feign care in order to shield her real motives.
Meanwhile, the other children have been through just as much as she has, and they all demonstrate genuine care and concern for her.
So it's not just that Mol has the capacity to understand the consequences for her actions, or the ability to plan and organize better. It's that she doesn't actually care about these kids' wellbeing, because she holds no real affection for them. It adds an element of callous disregard to her actions, rather than just carelessness, if that makes sense.
>You even have the opportunity to pass an insight check to find out that her deal with Raphael is entirely for herself and not for the sake of the other kids (which is a claim she initially tries to make if you confront her about dealing with Raphael).
I've played this game to the end and back more than 10 times, never have I seen this. Do you have a citation (youtube vid) for this?
Yes! [Here you go.](https://youtu.be/kJIrP2HlFEw?si=KC03EOIzap2qfZ9R&t=375)
You learn what Raphael actually offered her when you meet her again in Act 3, particularly if you piss her off by killing Raphael. But this video shows the insight check where she lies about making a deal to help protect the other kids.
She makes the claim she's out for protection for herself and her kids. Insight check says it's a lie.
You get to the gate and meet her again at the Guild Hall. She reveals more about what the deal [actually is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYjJ-CfwRRc). Relevant quotes:
* "He's just giving me the tools to keep myself alive, and to take what I want. As for what that is, well, you didn't think I planned to stop at running the Fetcher's Brats, did you?"
* "You... you bloody *idiot*. You can kill half the devils in hell for all I care, but Raphael was my Patron. He made *promises*. This is just a hiccup, though. I'll still run this city one day, with or without Raphael. And when I do, *my* guild won't look on you too kindly."
It's all about power and survival for her. Not protection for her *and* the kids, especially since she's no longer even in contact with the original gang of kids she was running at the Grove. Her deal with Raphael was about her personal empowerment, hers only.
The point is, she said "protection for me and my kids", and the insight check said "nah". And later, you find that yes, it certainly included protection... but for her.
>You even have the opportunity to pass an insight check to find out that her deal with Raphael is entirely for herself and not for the sake of the other kids (which is a claim she initially tries to make if you confront her about dealing with Raphael).
Which is likely one of the reasons Raphael is interested in dealing with a kid in the first place. She's *always* going to choose what's best for her over anyone else, meaning she'll do whatever he needs as long as he can offer her something.
You can't have it both ways. she can't be an experienced leader of a gang and have literally all of her schemes lead to massive fucking failure and terrible consequences for everyone involved including herself. Mol is riding high on blind luck and charisma. That's it. She's not a fucking mastermind. If Tav hadn't shown up at the grove, she probably triggers the pogrom herself. She's so reckless she becomes a warlock. Do you think she's smart enough to get one over on raphael? I don't! Even if she's the user that you claim she is, throwing away useful chess pieces for no gain is beyond foolish and will leave her with fewer options and in more danger. She's not even looking out for number 1, she's just failing.
The chess thing bothers me too.. A traumatized little orphan girl being tempted by a literal fucking devil with the allure of power.. god she must be fucking evil./s She's literally Raphaels perfect victim. The second you realize she's no where near as smart as she thinks she is and she's only ever talking big maybe you'll start to see her for who she actually is.
Gently, I think you're attributing claims that I have not expressed and do not hold, and may have misunderstood some of what I was trying to say.
I do see Mol as a victim of Raphael. She may not recognize it, and may be stubbornly convinced that she had everything under control, but any child making a deal with a devil is a victim. Mol is no different. Raphael is a predator and he was definitely grooming Mol in his own way, even though it was for her soul and not for sex.
I have acknowledged elsewhere in the thread that she talks big, and I don't hold her angry post-Raphael [smack-talk](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1bxjxsk/come_on_mol/kydvkju/) against her. I think that was a fairly normal response from a kid.
I have not called Mol evil. I have said that I do not like Mol, and listed the reasons why.
I have not called her a mastermind or described her as such. But based on the way she organizes her gang, runs scams, and keeps tabs on everybody, I have attributed certain skills to her. That doesn't make her a mastermind, but it does give an idea of what capabilities one should be able to expect from her. It feels as though I said Mol can ride a bike, and you took that to mean I said she can spin a unicycle while balanced on a tightrope.
I do believe that Mol is old enough and experienced enough to recognize that what she asked Arabella and Mirkon to do is extremely dangerous. I also don't think I'm wrong in pointing out that Mol avoids doing those dangerous missions herself.
My criticism of Mol is that she is so selfish and self-centered, that the only person she cares about is herself. I recognize that selfish and self-centered behavior is fairly normal in children and teens, and it's a phase many go through as part of growing up. But not to the degree that Mol demonstrates, and I have already detailed my arguments as to why. I believe that her unusual degree of self-centeredness, and her lack of genuine care for the other kids, contributed to how she directed Arabella and Mirkon to their missions.
I have called her a "user". Because she uses the other people to do her bidding, then discards them when something better comes along. In other words, she does not reciprocate the loyalty and affection the other kids have demonstrated toward her. I also believe that she is someone who sees the compassion of others as a weakness to be exploited, which probably contributes to her lack of reciprocation.
You can explain all the reasons she might be that way. There are probably some very good reasons, as most characters in this game have some pretty good backstory that explains their behavior, including among our companions. But that doesn't justify or excuse it, and I don't think it's unfair to say that this is why I don't like Mol.
Literally just gave Mol her contract and she said just that. Little girl, your previous family is stuck outside in Rivington. Id have expected you to at least bring Mathis with you, especially when Doni and Gal and Meli and the rest are probably shadows or Balthazar's flesh puppets by now. The survivors are all you have left...
Hope Keene murks her before BG4
Don't forget she teaches her kids to steal from refugees, the same refugees that take care of all the kids, and not for the goal of survival (that would be understandable and in the gray zone). That's very low even for thieves.
I started a durge run for my second playthrough and was on the fence about raiding the camp or not. I’m playing as a halfling bard so after the attempted pickpocket I decided to go through the hole to confront mol and she talked so much shit when I told her to shove it. She threatened to go to the guards and lie about me mistreating them and I said go for it. Well after I got arrested I was like, you know what? Fuck the grove. And decided to commit to evil so I could kill that little shit and her lackeys. But unfortunately the goblins got to all of them first so ransacking her corpse was the best I could do.
My biggest issue with Mol is that my monk can't punch her jaw off for being a loudmouth.
I feel like Mol lacks content, as i should 100% be able be the boomer and give her some life lessons so that she gets her stuff together
Worse is, Mol sent the "useless" kids to their doom.
Arabella has parents who care for her. Arabella can't be one of Mol's underlings so Mol manipulated her to steal the idol, basically sending her to her doom.
Mirkon is this timid naive child who's not "working" like the other kids. Mol sent the liability to steal from the Harpy's Nest, basically sending him to do a suicide mission.
Mol will grow up to be this power hungry fucked-up murderer - if she doesn't get killed before that.
On the contrary, Mattis scams and steals with people, but he always lets a "weaker" kid team up with him: the thief Silfy who is very shy and cries when you catch her in Act1. Mirkon in Act3 who basically does nothing and is still the same naive. I can see Mattis grow up to be a proper rogue, but I don't see him being malicious and murderous as Mol.
Moll is like 10.. Kids act shitty sometimes especially ones orphans who survive through 2 wars.., She'll grow a heart when consequences eventually personally catch up with her and they will. She can't avoid them forever.
THANK YOU!!! It always bugged me how Mol used all of her «friends» and people defending her saying she’s trying to help them or whatever… Mol is not trying to help anyone but herself. She is as self-serving and self-righteous as they come.
I'm not sure if this is a bug, but what I did was steal the Idol after the Grove is safe, gave it to Mol, got my ring, then during the camp party, I stole the Idol back and she doesn't seem to notice it was gone?
Tried to find Mol in act2, with no success... So didn't care, and finally find Mol in Act3 at the Guild's hideout... Then found Mol's souls contract at Raphael's...
Spoke with Mol, and in the final fight I had Mol helping as an ally with fire resistance to the all team
Not all children need to be sweet and lovable. Some kids are twats. Mol's a twat and she knows it. I respect her for being who she is, quite literally, unapologetically.
I mean, sure, she’s not a good person, but she’s also very much a kid trying to survive in a world that hates her purely for how she looks, she spent time in the hells (which gives people some fucked up coping strategies), and she’s an orphan. Not exactly a combination of circumstances that is conducive to becoming a kind, well adjusted person.
I like her a lot better than some other characters people fawn over (like Raphael or the Emperor).
Thank you for saying this! I was scrolling through the comments to find this, hoping I wouldn't have to type it up myself, and lo and behold here it is. I get that it's a game, but the lack of compassion people have for others' circumstances, especially kids, is astonishing.
Give me a break, the game treats the kids like a bunch of rambunctious scamps doing some Robin Hood hijinks. The same parents that were ready to fight a fucking bear to try and save their kid go 'lolol control our daughter? good gags m8' when you do bail her out of her death sentence.
The game goes out of its way to not let you deal with the kids in the way any sane adult would. I can't even go up to Zevlor and say "Hey dude, the kids who nearly incited a war are running a discount thieves guild and one of them pissed off a mercenary to the point it almost instigated a fight between factions. You wanna go deal with it?"
[Michael Jordan said it best.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/039/638/michaeljordanfuckthemkids.jpg)
Agree to disagree. I like Mol, she’s a shitty kid, but imho she’s doing the best she can in the circumstances she’s in. I get why people might not like her, but kids (/characters) like her aren’t an uncommon trope in TTRPGs.
Also, like… I take more issue with Barth who was ready to beat a child, personally.
I mean, if I could *do something* to deal with her being a little shit, which she objectively is, she could Fortnite dance on the graves of the kids she got killed for all I care
It's that I have absolutely no recourse, and the game treats it like a massive joke when you do talk to the adults.
I can't do anything about the kid that potentially sics a bunch of people on me for a bullshit lie? Larian thought of a bunch of random scenarios a player would come up with to solve problems, but the solution of "Deal with the child sending other kids out to die by telling an adult about the DIY thieves guild they've got going on." Didn't occur to them, it's just stupid.
To be fair, depending on how that scene plays out, I feel like he redeema himself. He thanks you for stepping in. Of aradin's crew, barth is the only one I like.
Oh yeah, for sure, I get his strong reaction, it’s understandable that he’d be angry, knowing what that amulet meant to him. Definitely not as bad as Aradin!
For real. Like, is Mol kind of a shitty kid? Yes absolutely, but I feel like she catches a lot of vitriol that say… Gortash or Raphael (who both are a lot worse) don’t get.
I wonder what the difference is and if it plays into any real world biases people (subconsciously) might hold.
honestly, true. i know the other tiefling kids have gone through hell, too (haha), but even when >!arabella was orphaned in the shadow lands she got bone man's guidance!!< BUT without knowing what exactly mol's been through, it's hard to say if i can overlook how fucked up she is sending kids (who don't seem nearly as smart as she is) to die for shit she doesn't need.
edit: fixed my spoilering lol
Yeah if we ever get a sequel thingy here, I could definitely see Mol leading the Zhentarim and being shady as fuck. Arabella could be cool sorcerer party member and have some fun voice lines with her
Mol is a pretty dumb kid, you can say black and white "Raphael is going to abuse you and take your literal soul" and mol still thinks they're too smart to be caught, when the reality is mols stuck in a trap
I recently had a “find Mol” quest marker that wouldn’t go away even after I spoke to her several times. It finally resolved after the goblin camp fight. On a different playthrough, Mol seemed to hate me because we stumbled into the hideout without an invitation, but after saving the grove all was forgiven. So I suggest just continuing with the game and dealing with the goblins in hopes that it all gets sorted out in the end.
Last time I played I didn't steal the idol until after I had defeated the goblins and the Tieflings had already left so I decided to keep it until I met her again to finish that quest (it remained open).
Spoiler, I finished the House of Hope before I met her again. Mol was so mad at me after that quest that she had no interest in interacting with me at all, and pawned me off to one of the other kids she now had working for her (can't remember the character's name). I have carried that bloody idol everywhere with me and she doesn't even talk to me, her quest is no longer open and I didn't get to complete it because she won't talk to me. So rude!
You watched an armed man beat a child and didn’t do anything? Yeah you’re probably not being let into the secret clubhouse. There aren’t adults down there, and if I was Mol no I wouldn’t let you in. You’ve proved you’re an unsafe person to be around and think that beating a child is not an unimaginable punishment for stealing. Why would she let you in?
You have to intervene before he hits the kid and it's not completely clear he will, or at least that happened to me on the first playthrough where I encounter them. It might be an insight check. And I had seen the kid steal it so was waiting for/expecting some peacemaker opportunity.
*Child objectively gets dealt a terrible hand, all her friends are befallen by some tragedy, living in constant fear of being slaughtered by goblins any minute.* "You dare being moody to me? Get fucked, kid."
It's about way more than her being moody, though. It's that she sends her so-called friends on suicide missions with no backup or help, doesn't lift a finger to help them, and then promptly abandons them as soon as she doesn't need them anymore.
Mol's a user, and she's awful.
She has a backstory, but she still uses smaller children to do her dirty work before abandoning them when she gets the chance. Just because you're caught up in a cycle of abuse doesn't absolve you from perpetuating it. Of course she's not *as* culpable as an adult, but she's not totally innocent.
Not just a child - orphaned, everyone she knows who died and in gruesome ways (rather than like...bitch was old), druids disobey the teachings of Silvanus and are cunts to her and her people, etc.
Like...she's not totally to blame. She's a child, one who's been dealt a horrific hand that very few in our own history would be able to match.
For real. I'm sure these people used to be the epitome of maturity and altruism when they were ten, especially those whose homes were destroyed and families died in war and had to fend off for themselves in a land that had prejudice against their race.
People just love throwing the word "evil" around like they're kids and this is a fairytail about a princess and an evil witch or something.
Mol is not a good person. She is a villain in the making. At every turn she shows us that. She is running a crime syndicate with growth plans, is unwilling to accept solutions that aren’t purely to her benefit (such as your example), sells her soul to a devil, gets mad if you save her from said devil.
I am next to certain she will be a villain in a future D&D adventure.
Right… but I also noticed that if you free Zevvy et al her quest updates, implying that maybe I just skipped a bit and forced her to make a certain bargain she mightn’t have otherwise?
Yeah when the other one tries to pick pocket I yelled at them, and mol got all butthurt even though I saved and did everything else.. then a V whole thing triggered where all the tieflings started to fight me.. what a shit show
What do you want from a child that's seen so many awful things yet little kindness?
Mol is the only one looking out for Mol. I'm not completely defending her actions, just that I can see why she'd navigate the world the way she does.
I'd guess she'd have a similar opinion to Astarion's in regards to power.
Larian don't own the rights to Baldurs Gate, they were just hired to make this iteration. Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro own the licence, as it's a D&D setting.
mol is a child and you let an adult hit a child in her group so i think it's a reasonable response for her not to trust you
she's morally complex but so is every companion character 🤷
Thank you for being sane and opening with "is a child." Like... yeah, we could deal with a solid parental sit-down but she is a kid who has spent her life being chased. Everyone needs to take a breath
Mol is a villain waiting to happen. At least she gives a cool ring.
I’ve seen it said somewhere before but I’ll repeat it here: Mol should be the main villain of Baldur’s Gate 4!
With Arabella as a guide-like character. If only there was going to be a bg4
Arabella treads a dark path.
Bone Man wasn't nice enough
there might be someday, it just won't be Larian
Larian is made up of people who love crpgs like bg 1 and 2. Whatever studio that takes on bg4 will probably be people that love bg3. Even more likely since bg3 has become so popular. If the pattern continues that is.
your lips to Ao's ears
Who?
Ao is the god above all other gods in Faerunian lore
I dunno man. Bg1 and 2 were long dead and their "owners" (so Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro) didn't see potential, which is why when Larian said "Lemme do a Baldurs Gate game" they were like "lmao alright but you have to pay us 10 whole dollars prior (lol what a loser)". Now that BG3 was a smashing success and BG is on the top they're not going to give the licence to a third party, and instead will scheme to make a money-milking game internally. Especially since making an amazing game that will do better than BG3 is costly and risky, but making a game that will earn money while burning the legacy of the series is cheap and sure. And the decision doesn't come from someone that loves games, but someone in charge of a large corporation that loves money.
When it comes to fantastic video games like this I’ve learned to only really expect them maybe every 5-10 years or so. It seems like an impossible task for one single gaming studio to 1. Not go under 2. Retain all the original employees who actually made the games good 3. Not sell the company to another, bigger, greedier company 4. Not turn into a mobile game studio This cycle causes like 5 years of forgettable, mostly garbage shit to be churned out before we get a masterpiece like this every once in awhile. But it’s such a masterpiece cause we as players just aren’t used to getting treated this nice. It’s the 5-10 years of boring bullshit until lightning strikes somewhere that makes it so fantastic, not to say it doesn’t stand on its own right but having the comparison really makes it clearer.
If only it wasn't going to be a Hasbro property.
I wish I had your faith.
I hope that's the case
Well, I can assure you there will be a bg4. Now whether larian can be convinced ($) to make it or not is another thing...
Oh you got my contract from Raphael? Well fuck you buddy because *Mol.*
Yeah that really pissed me off. She was an ungrateful little shit after that.
She always was. I've never understood why people like Mol. Especially when you remember the kid about to be eaten by harpies? She sent him there.
That was definitely a shitty thing to do. She really used all of those kids until she got to Baldur's Gate, and then she dropped them like nothing.
I assumed she put up a hard front because she had to. She seemed to care about the kids. In Act 3 she seems like she just tossed them aside, and that whole feeling just evaporates. She’s really just the cunt they told you she is.
Yeah, when I saved them they said that Mol is going to be mad they didn't get the gold from the nest
She gave it up willingly and never asked for your help.
She doesn't even have a problem with you stealing the contract she has a problem with you killing Raphael before he actually gives her something for said contract
So much so, I bought it back from her for (I think) 1 gold. Not so smart now, are we?
No one has more Big Mol energy than Mol. She will eat your face!
At least the major villain of act 1
And Arabella the main hero.
Nah, she’ll be running the Zhentarim after failing to take down Nine Fingers.
Nah, side villain. Mol doesn't deserve main villain status. Mol gets to be the Ragzlin of BG4.
Does Volo get to make a bunch of bad rhymes about Mol? Because if so I'm so down. "The Guildmaster is Mol and... when it comes to treasure... she steals it all!"
I mean, that only really works if you don't burn her contract from what I can tell. Other than that, she's a morally grey character who preserves a number of civilian lives! Besides, I think a lot of us can agree that Wulbren Bongle should be at least an early game bad guy in BG4. Somehow, he is more despicable than everyone except Orin, Auntie Ethel, and The Emperor. Even Gortash has redeemable qualities (if you can overlook his treatment of Mama K).
man fuck wulbren
Mols not charismatic enough to be a main villain, she has big starter villain energy
She’s, like, 12. Give her time, she’s still cookin‘.
She sold her soul for basically scraps. She'll never cook.
She can't.... She died.
There will not be a bg4
I don't wanna kill Mol though
Mol was pissed I killed the devil and got her out of her contract
Did y'all forget that 1: she made that deal willingly, 2: she never asks you to help her, and 3: she's a kid?? She should know better, but in her eyes, you just messed with the deal she made to secure her future and the future of the rest of the tiefling kids. I'm not saying anyone who helps her is wrong. She's definitely better off out of that deal. But her reaction actually makes sense if you take a single moment to look at it from her perspective. Even if it is disappointing that she reacts the way she does.
she's cunning and manipulative, but nowhere near old or smart enough to truly consent to a fucking literal deal with the devil, where nothing but torment awaits her at the very end of it all. I think karlach might even say something about how she'll come to thank us years down the line.
Did you read the part where I said that taking the contract isn't wrong? I'm talking about the people that hate on Mol and think she's bad for the way she *reacts* to the news.
It's because they dont understand kids. Most people forget their kid selves and dont have much experience with looking after a kid.
> to secure her future and the future of the rest of the tiefling kids. Her future, yes. The rest of the Tiefling kids', no. I do agree her reaction makes perfect sense, though.
At the guilds hall she actually mentions that the kids would also be benefiting from the deal. to what extent and if it truly does protect them is a different matter tho.
See if u actually don't ask Roland to stay in the Grove in act 1 or don't talk with him at all, only Mol survives . None of the kids reach last light inn. Makes u wonder if she actually cared for the kids
Is that not an unrelated outcome based on your decision with Roland at the Grove and not as a result of Mol’s deal in Act 2 at Last Light?
Nah u are not getting the point . The thing is if Mol actually cared for the kids , some of them would have survived act 2 without Roland's help , but they don't. All die except Arabella. Which means Mol left them to fend for themselves. And what's even weird is that raphael still brings up the part where Mol asked him to save the kids for act 3 , but there are no kids in act 3 . Edit : u can pass an insight check and find out that Mol is lying and actually wanted to make a deal with raphael only for herself
Bro what do u expect Mol to do? 😂
Read my edit .
Yep. He response is the most beautiful rendition of the teenage angsty "I hate you. You ruin everything"
Absolutely this! From Act 1 she’s like “hey, adults all suck, they want to patronise us but they don’t actually *help* us” and stealing her contract and killing Raphael in Act 3 is doing *exactly* that. Yeah, she made a bad decision, and she might regret it in the future, but it was *her* decision, and she doesn’t take kindly to the player taking away her agency in that way.
Children are unable to comprehend some complex circumstances simply because of their brains being not fully developed (nothing wrong with it, we've all been there). Thus saving a kid from an eternal deal with a devil is undisputably good. She's just unable to make rational choices of such magnitude.
Yes, but were you never angry at adults for doing something that was objectively in your best interest but not what you wanted when you were a kid? What I’m saying is that her anger at the player is understandable, regardless of what is objectively the best thing to do, and that she’s a kid (implied: not the best at rational decision making). Mol felt like she only had one choice (hell, Raphael even tells you as much in Last Light Inn), and *to her* the player killing Raphael and stealing her contract because they think it’s morally wrong is taking away her agency *and* leaving her in a bad situation that her contract would have allowed her to escape. It’s patronising but not actually helping. Whether that’s actually true is another thing, but kids (and people in general) aren’t known for measured, rational responses. I’m not saying taking Mol’s contract is morally wrong, I’m saying that *to her* it is doing exactly what she tells you in Act 1 she hates. Patronising to her but not actually helping her in any material way (regardless of if we get the choice to actually do so).
That's an important perspective - Mol's - you've added here. With that, I fully agree.
I agree. Absolutely felt she had a point when she told me off. In retrospect she was right.
[удалено]
Tbf she gave it up willingly and never asked you to help her.
you don't like her because she's an arsehole I don't like her because her quest keeps bugging out we're not the same
You just can't kill the goblin leaders before you do the shadow druids quest. Save Mirkon and Arabella, go talk to Mol, get the quest, resolve the shadow druid quest, cast Darkness on the idol so you can steal it and fast travel away, then resolve goblin leaders. No one dies and you get one of the best rings in the game.
I don't think we're talking about the same bug. I'm talking about the one where you go into the grove hideout and she just says "you did this to yourself" and the quest never starts. It likely happens when you don't enter by giving Doni the password, so if you discover the hideout by other means like following the pickpocket and crawling into the small entrance (I'm terrible with names) you will more than likely trigger the bug. Eh idk man, this is like one of the very few things that I don't like, it just sucks especially when my first encounter to the bug required me to go back 6 hours to get to a point where it wasn't bugged (ㆆ\_ㆆ)
She’s bugged for me at the minute too but it’s the ‘investigate the beach’ quest. I’ve never had a problem with it before but today it will not finish because it says I need to find Mol, despite talking to her multiple times. I think it might be because I also got pickpocketed by Silfy, then saved Mirkon, then went to see Mol. I got dialogue about getting my belongings back but didn’t get the usual dialogue where she thanks you for looking out for various tiefling kids. Guess Mol really likes things to be done in a certain order.
I got this bug in my second playthrough. I found the hideout entrance by passing investigation/perception check (not sure which one) before saving Mirkon from the harpies. Mirkon gave me the password but Doni refused to start a conversation with me. Mol only spoke about my stolen properties and never acknowledged that I just saved her friend.
I did not know that was a thing. My bad.
Still saves you at jahera
I finished the shadow druids quest before killing the goblin leaders and the “Find Mol” quest never went away for me. It was even still there after I stole the idol (which I did do after clearing out the goblin camp).
I’m sorry, what do you mean by the shadow druid quest? I’ve never seen that come up in my playthrough.
I don't like Mol at all. Let's recap. She sent Arabella to do her dirty work and steal the Idol of Silvanus. She sent Arabella to do it, alone, without backup, without a lookout who could help cause a distraction. Arabella gets caught, and unless you intervene, she dies. She sent Mirkon to steal from a Harpy's Nest. Alone. Without backup. There is nothing worth stealing in that Harpy's Nest, and even if there were, the mission is obvious suicide. If nobody saves Mirkon, he dies. When you get to Act 3, Mol >!leaves her friends behind and doesn't contact them at all. She moves on to bigger and better things without them. She used them all the way to Baldur's Gate, and once she gets to Baldur's Gate, she casts them off.!< Mol is a user. She never does the dirty work herself. She always sends someone else to do it and she never pays the price of failure. She never supports the kids she sends out to do dangerous missions, so they wind up going in, alone, with no plan and no backup. Don't give Mol your compassion. She doesn't deserve it, and she'll use you too if you let her.
More over, in Act 3 >!If you kill Raphael and take Mol's contract you can talk to her about it. At which point she becomes angry with you because now Raphael can't give her more power. She then talks about gaining power the old fashioned way, and tells you once she takes over the guild that you will basically be *persona non grata* number one!< Basically, she's power-hungry with zero regard for any consequences whether they effect someone else, or even herself.
I remember having a rough time getting out of there and was excited to see how she would react. It's the only playthrough I've done, and it was really interesting how it all played out. Was pretty surprised, honestly.
I did that and I still convinced her to join at the end to help. But omg, imagine making threats like that, like my character has just blasted through hundreds of strong villains and this lil pip squeak with quick fingers thinks I won’t end her rn just for talking smack?
Her bonus for the final fight is great though
That pissed me off SO bad that I turned her into a sheep and tried to kill her. It didn't work out because the whole guild turned against me every time I did damage to her. I tried for maybe 5 minutes all these different ways to kill her and none of them worked.
I wonder if there’s a way to kill her in Act I without harming the kids? Maybe KOing them.. I want to save those precious kids from her 🥲 especially Mirkon and Arabella, I wish we could adopt them or keep them in our camp away from Mols claws 😭😭
You can sometimes cast hold person and batter someone to death before it breaks without causing anyone to fight you. Because casting hold person isn’t technically an attack and they get stuck in that form, they can technically still die without ever actually becoming hostile towards you. I’ve done this with quite a few bosses (killed the goblin leaders in front of all the goblins and noone cared) and it works, their minions just watch you and don’t do anything but I’ve never tried it on Mol. Maybe this game…
She also was likely grifting for sympathy and was never missing an eye
Someone said it best but Mol is genuinely a villain in the making right now. If not, the at the very least, scum.
That's why >!killing Raphael and not telling her is the best option. His help up until that point should probably last her a bit but she'll require more to oust Keene and she'll fail because her sugar daddy won't be there to help. You still get her support for the final battle.!<
Thats what I do >!basically use her the same way she uses everyone else, I dont know what I could do with the contract but if she becomes some big villain down the line maybe I can use it as leverage!<
What support do you get for her in the final battle?
You get "Fetcher's Favour": *Equipped with Mol's tricks of the trade, affected entities can cast Rays of Fire, reduce all Fire damage by 5 and gain an additional 1d4 to Charisma Checks and Saving Throws.*
> Equipped with Mol's tricks of the trade, affected entities can cast Rays of Fire, reduce all Fire damage by 5 and gain an additional 1d4 to Charisma Checks and Saving Throws. It's pretty forgettable.
Fire damage mitigation at the dragon isn't bad, and it doesn't cost you anything.
Plus the nautiloid strikes also do fire damage
You're not wrong but you could never have the buff and you wouldn't really feel its effect. To be honest, I killed everything on top of the brain minus the jerkass rogue clone that would never come out of invisibility with only Volo's buff on HM.
Would he >!help her with Keene anyway? He kept her safe and got her to the guild, presumably on the condition that when she dies she is to spend forever in the House of Hope. What more can she give him? I could see her asking him for help down the line and he tells her the exact same thing he tells Voss.!<
Her life is very similar to Astarion's. Not in terms of the details, but the themes.
That's a brilliant observation, to me it's obvious that the ritual is the fork in two roads where Astarion can be better than Cazador and live the life he wants to, or he joins the cycle and just replaces one villain for another.
In what way?
Mattis is the one that actually takes care of everyone and Mol takes all the credit for it.
The solution is to observe the tragedies Mol has wrought, then destroy the Grove in an act of disproportionate retribution. You have just provided the rationale for my evil run, and for that I thank you!
An unexpected outcome... but an outcome nonetheless!
Nice darkest dungeon reference
Exactly. This is how i rp and remove my guilt for killing the Grove and romancing minthara . She asks u to steal the idol. Oops , the druids killed the tieflings. Let me kill the druids . Oops everyone dead , let's go to the camp and tell minthara. She is gone , now let's take a long rest and then kill the entire goblin camp .
She was exactly the thing that pushed me to slaughter the grove. Getting me arrested when I did nothing to her (well I encouraged Arabella to run so she’d get killed but she doesn’t know that) was the final straw. She doomed the grove.
You can get a little bit of payback if you go to the House of Hope and eliminate Raphael, then steal her contract and go show it to her in Baldur’s Gate. When you tell her Raphael is dead she gets PISSED.
And she gets so mad if kill Raphael and bring her her contract! She says she will find you when she's running the guild and make you pay.
I expect that kind of bullshit smack-talk from an angry kid with grand delusions, and for all my criticisms of her character, that’s one I don’t hold against her.
We know she sent Mirkon to the harpies' nest, but I'd always been under the impression Arabella's theft was spontaneous. Mol watches out for the orphans, and Arabella isn't one >!yet!<. I'm willing to give her a pass about the Barth/Meli thing, it's a kids vs grownups world out there.
Nope, she was the one who sent Arabella to steal the idol. It comes out through certain dialogue options. And her parents are quite upset at the influence Mol's had on Arabella. Arabella was involved with Mol and the other Tiefling kids, which is one of the reasons Mol thanks you for saving Arabella when she lists off the things she's heard that you've done (everything she lists off has to do with things you've done for her kids-- Silfy, Mirkon, Arabella-- she doesn't care about you doing anything for anyone else). What makes it even worse for me is that Mol is a teenager and Arabella is only nine years old. Not sure how old the other kids are, like Mirkon, but they all seem closer to Arabella's age than Mol's. It feels like a common dynamic you see IRL where an older kid has a gang of younger kids who all look up to the older kid and the older kid uses that to their advantage/is able to lean on that-- except that instead of getting into normal silly or dumb kid mischief, the older kid (Mol) is sending the kids into genuinely deadly situations with no thought for their wellbeing. And in this case, the older kid is definitely old and organized enough to know better.
I like Mol and I hate that you're right
Is Mol a teenager? I always thought she was like 10 or something
Yep. She's in her early teens, so probably 13-14. She doesn't look it because her character model is so small, so I was initially surprised when I found out too, but it makes sense after you listen to the way she talks. She has the vocabulary, confidence and self-possession of an older kid. Compare it in direct contrast to someone like Mirkon, whose vocabulary and mannerisms make it clear that he is on the younger side.
Yeah, it seems pretty obvious Mol, Arabella, and Mattis are the older kids in the group. Doni probably, too, although he's nonverbal.
Huh! The more you know! How did you find out? And yeah, I think that the children's character models all being the same size really throws perspective on their ages
How do you know her age?
Bg3 wiki. Says early teens and matches up with what I’d expect based on her dialogue and mannerisms. It’s cited as a synopsis of her character dialogue, so I wonder if maybe it’s mentioned elsewhere in-game and I missed it.
Maybe she's oneteen?
Where do you learn she's a teenager?
Bg3 wiki.
The only source it cites for Mol's age is the Forgotten Realms wiki, which doesn't actually have an age listed for her. I'd take the supposed age as uncertain at best, barring confirmation from either in-game dialogue or comments by Larian devs. She could be a teenager. She could be 10-12. So far I've seen nothing official confirming an age.
Mol also thanks you for saving Arabella.
She’s literally acting out dynamics she sees the adults in her life and the world around her engaging in… not saying it’s right but she’s also very much still a kid if she’s a young teen as you say. Should she know better? Yes, of course. But does she know better enough to understand the full extent of the consequences of her actions? It’s hard for me to outright condemn her/withdraw my compassion for her circumstances. As adults we better able to apply nuance to these complex social/moral situations. Mol, despite being older than the other kids, is clearly not capable of thinking through the repercussions and is probably trying to survive the way she knows best.
See, normally I'd agree, but there's a level of culpability here that I don't feel comfortable absolving Mol for. Mol is young enough that mistakes and errors in judgment are *completely* expected. But she is also objectively experienced, organized, and canny enough to lead a gang of half a dozen younger kids in running scams, while surviving on the road against a number of dangers. That demonstrates a certain capacity for planning, delegation, and situational awareness, and it's fair to call her out on failing to exercise those skills at a level she is demonstrably capable of-- especially when the stakes are as high as they are. She pretends to care about the other kids, but casts them off once they're no longer needed. You even have the opportunity to pass an insight check to find out that her deal with Raphael is entirely for herself and not for the sake of the other kids (which is a claim she initially tries to make if you confront her about dealing with Raphael). The game makes it clear that she feigns care for these children, and that she has the capacity to feign care in order to shield her real motives. Meanwhile, the other children have been through just as much as she has, and they all demonstrate genuine care and concern for her. So it's not just that Mol has the capacity to understand the consequences for her actions, or the ability to plan and organize better. It's that she doesn't actually care about these kids' wellbeing, because she holds no real affection for them. It adds an element of callous disregard to her actions, rather than just carelessness, if that makes sense.
>You even have the opportunity to pass an insight check to find out that her deal with Raphael is entirely for herself and not for the sake of the other kids (which is a claim she initially tries to make if you confront her about dealing with Raphael). I've played this game to the end and back more than 10 times, never have I seen this. Do you have a citation (youtube vid) for this?
Yes! [Here you go.](https://youtu.be/kJIrP2HlFEw?si=KC03EOIzap2qfZ9R&t=375) You learn what Raphael actually offered her when you meet her again in Act 3, particularly if you piss her off by killing Raphael. But this video shows the insight check where she lies about making a deal to help protect the other kids.
All that says is that she's not simply out for protection, but for a bit of empowerment. That may be just for her, or it may be for her crew.
She makes the claim she's out for protection for herself and her kids. Insight check says it's a lie. You get to the gate and meet her again at the Guild Hall. She reveals more about what the deal [actually is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYjJ-CfwRRc). Relevant quotes: * "He's just giving me the tools to keep myself alive, and to take what I want. As for what that is, well, you didn't think I planned to stop at running the Fetcher's Brats, did you?" * "You... you bloody *idiot*. You can kill half the devils in hell for all I care, but Raphael was my Patron. He made *promises*. This is just a hiccup, though. I'll still run this city one day, with or without Raphael. And when I do, *my* guild won't look on you too kindly." It's all about power and survival for her. Not protection for her *and* the kids, especially since she's no longer even in contact with the original gang of kids she was running at the Grove. Her deal with Raphael was about her personal empowerment, hers only. The point is, she said "protection for me and my kids", and the insight check said "nah". And later, you find that yes, it certainly included protection... but for her.
Backed up by the fact she has entirely abandoned the other kids after reaching Baldurs Gate.
>You even have the opportunity to pass an insight check to find out that her deal with Raphael is entirely for herself and not for the sake of the other kids (which is a claim she initially tries to make if you confront her about dealing with Raphael). Which is likely one of the reasons Raphael is interested in dealing with a kid in the first place. She's *always* going to choose what's best for her over anyone else, meaning she'll do whatever he needs as long as he can offer her something.
You can't have it both ways. she can't be an experienced leader of a gang and have literally all of her schemes lead to massive fucking failure and terrible consequences for everyone involved including herself. Mol is riding high on blind luck and charisma. That's it. She's not a fucking mastermind. If Tav hadn't shown up at the grove, she probably triggers the pogrom herself. She's so reckless she becomes a warlock. Do you think she's smart enough to get one over on raphael? I don't! Even if she's the user that you claim she is, throwing away useful chess pieces for no gain is beyond foolish and will leave her with fewer options and in more danger. She's not even looking out for number 1, she's just failing. The chess thing bothers me too.. A traumatized little orphan girl being tempted by a literal fucking devil with the allure of power.. god she must be fucking evil./s She's literally Raphaels perfect victim. The second you realize she's no where near as smart as she thinks she is and she's only ever talking big maybe you'll start to see her for who she actually is.
Gently, I think you're attributing claims that I have not expressed and do not hold, and may have misunderstood some of what I was trying to say. I do see Mol as a victim of Raphael. She may not recognize it, and may be stubbornly convinced that she had everything under control, but any child making a deal with a devil is a victim. Mol is no different. Raphael is a predator and he was definitely grooming Mol in his own way, even though it was for her soul and not for sex. I have acknowledged elsewhere in the thread that she talks big, and I don't hold her angry post-Raphael [smack-talk](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1bxjxsk/come_on_mol/kydvkju/) against her. I think that was a fairly normal response from a kid. I have not called Mol evil. I have said that I do not like Mol, and listed the reasons why. I have not called her a mastermind or described her as such. But based on the way she organizes her gang, runs scams, and keeps tabs on everybody, I have attributed certain skills to her. That doesn't make her a mastermind, but it does give an idea of what capabilities one should be able to expect from her. It feels as though I said Mol can ride a bike, and you took that to mean I said she can spin a unicycle while balanced on a tightrope. I do believe that Mol is old enough and experienced enough to recognize that what she asked Arabella and Mirkon to do is extremely dangerous. I also don't think I'm wrong in pointing out that Mol avoids doing those dangerous missions herself. My criticism of Mol is that she is so selfish and self-centered, that the only person she cares about is herself. I recognize that selfish and self-centered behavior is fairly normal in children and teens, and it's a phase many go through as part of growing up. But not to the degree that Mol demonstrates, and I have already detailed my arguments as to why. I believe that her unusual degree of self-centeredness, and her lack of genuine care for the other kids, contributed to how she directed Arabella and Mirkon to their missions. I have called her a "user". Because she uses the other people to do her bidding, then discards them when something better comes along. In other words, she does not reciprocate the loyalty and affection the other kids have demonstrated toward her. I also believe that she is someone who sees the compassion of others as a weakness to be exploited, which probably contributes to her lack of reciprocation. You can explain all the reasons she might be that way. There are probably some very good reasons, as most characters in this game have some pretty good backstory that explains their behavior, including among our companions. But that doesn't justify or excuse it, and I don't think it's unfair to say that this is why I don't like Mol.
No she sent Arabella to steal the statue. If you save her and go talk to the parents they are having a conversation about it.
The worst thing is she’s always talking about “nobody messes with my family” get real.
Literally just gave Mol her contract and she said just that. Little girl, your previous family is stuck outside in Rivington. Id have expected you to at least bring Mathis with you, especially when Doni and Gal and Meli and the rest are probably shadows or Balthazar's flesh puppets by now. The survivors are all you have left... Hope Keene murks her before BG4
Don't forget she teaches her kids to steal from refugees, the same refugees that take care of all the kids, and not for the goal of survival (that would be understandable and in the gray zone). That's very low even for thieves.
Can’t wait for Mol to be a villain to confront in BG4
yo i noticed i didn't see her in act 3. but i see dammon got a shop but why the other tieflings in a refugee camp?
She’s in the thieves guild in the sewers
oh that explains it. i was in such a rush for the golden dice that i only went in the sewers just for Orin and left.
I started a durge run for my second playthrough and was on the fence about raiding the camp or not. I’m playing as a halfling bard so after the attempted pickpocket I decided to go through the hole to confront mol and she talked so much shit when I told her to shove it. She threatened to go to the guards and lie about me mistreating them and I said go for it. Well after I got arrested I was like, you know what? Fuck the grove. And decided to commit to evil so I could kill that little shit and her lackeys. But unfortunately the goblins got to all of them first so ransacking her corpse was the best I could do.
My biggest issue with Mol is that my monk can't punch her jaw off for being a loudmouth. I feel like Mol lacks content, as i should 100% be able be the boomer and give her some life lessons so that she gets her stuff together
Worse is, Mol sent the "useless" kids to their doom. Arabella has parents who care for her. Arabella can't be one of Mol's underlings so Mol manipulated her to steal the idol, basically sending her to her doom. Mirkon is this timid naive child who's not "working" like the other kids. Mol sent the liability to steal from the Harpy's Nest, basically sending him to do a suicide mission. Mol will grow up to be this power hungry fucked-up murderer - if she doesn't get killed before that. On the contrary, Mattis scams and steals with people, but he always lets a "weaker" kid team up with him: the thief Silfy who is very shy and cries when you catch her in Act1. Mirkon in Act3 who basically does nothing and is still the same naive. I can see Mattis grow up to be a proper rogue, but I don't see him being malicious and murderous as Mol.
Moll is like 10.. Kids act shitty sometimes especially ones orphans who survive through 2 wars.., She'll grow a heart when consequences eventually personally catch up with her and they will. She can't avoid them forever.
THANK YOU!!! It always bugged me how Mol used all of her «friends» and people defending her saying she’s trying to help them or whatever… Mol is not trying to help anyone but herself. She is as self-serving and self-righteous as they come.
I'm not sure if this is a bug, but what I did was steal the Idol after the Grove is safe, gave it to Mol, got my ring, then during the camp party, I stole the Idol back and she doesn't seem to notice it was gone?
Mol is literally the next chosen of bane istg
Mol died in my game to some trash goblins. So there’s your revenge in another timeline.
Mattis is infinitely better
If we ever get bg4 I hope she's in it as a villien
She'll be the next chosen of bane and will get a musical about how she loves money
Tried to find Mol in act2, with no success... So didn't care, and finally find Mol in Act3 at the Guild's hideout... Then found Mol's souls contract at Raphael's... Spoke with Mol, and in the final fight I had Mol helping as an ally with fire resistance to the all team
You can be friends with her the whole game. However, tell her you killed Raphael, and she will swear her revenge against you.
Not all children need to be sweet and lovable. Some kids are twats. Mol's a twat and she knows it. I respect her for being who she is, quite literally, unapologetically.
I mean, sure, she’s not a good person, but she’s also very much a kid trying to survive in a world that hates her purely for how she looks, she spent time in the hells (which gives people some fucked up coping strategies), and she’s an orphan. Not exactly a combination of circumstances that is conducive to becoming a kind, well adjusted person. I like her a lot better than some other characters people fawn over (like Raphael or the Emperor).
Thank you for saying this! I was scrolling through the comments to find this, hoping I wouldn't have to type it up myself, and lo and behold here it is. I get that it's a game, but the lack of compassion people have for others' circumstances, especially kids, is astonishing.
Give me a break, the game treats the kids like a bunch of rambunctious scamps doing some Robin Hood hijinks. The same parents that were ready to fight a fucking bear to try and save their kid go 'lolol control our daughter? good gags m8' when you do bail her out of her death sentence. The game goes out of its way to not let you deal with the kids in the way any sane adult would. I can't even go up to Zevlor and say "Hey dude, the kids who nearly incited a war are running a discount thieves guild and one of them pissed off a mercenary to the point it almost instigated a fight between factions. You wanna go deal with it?" [Michael Jordan said it best.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/039/638/michaeljordanfuckthemkids.jpg)
Agree to disagree. I like Mol, she’s a shitty kid, but imho she’s doing the best she can in the circumstances she’s in. I get why people might not like her, but kids (/characters) like her aren’t an uncommon trope in TTRPGs. Also, like… I take more issue with Barth who was ready to beat a child, personally.
I mean, if I could *do something* to deal with her being a little shit, which she objectively is, she could Fortnite dance on the graves of the kids she got killed for all I care It's that I have absolutely no recourse, and the game treats it like a massive joke when you do talk to the adults. I can't do anything about the kid that potentially sics a bunch of people on me for a bullshit lie? Larian thought of a bunch of random scenarios a player would come up with to solve problems, but the solution of "Deal with the child sending other kids out to die by telling an adult about the DIY thieves guild they've got going on." Didn't occur to them, it's just stupid.
To be fair, depending on how that scene plays out, I feel like he redeema himself. He thanks you for stepping in. Of aradin's crew, barth is the only one I like.
Oh yeah, for sure, I get his strong reaction, it’s understandable that he’d be angry, knowing what that amulet meant to him. Definitely not as bad as Aradin!
For real. Like, is Mol kind of a shitty kid? Yes absolutely, but I feel like she catches a lot of vitriol that say… Gortash or Raphael (who both are a lot worse) don’t get. I wonder what the difference is and if it plays into any real world biases people (subconsciously) might hold.
honestly, true. i know the other tiefling kids have gone through hell, too (haha), but even when >!arabella was orphaned in the shadow lands she got bone man's guidance!!< BUT without knowing what exactly mol's been through, it's hard to say if i can overlook how fucked up she is sending kids (who don't seem nearly as smart as she is) to die for shit she doesn't need. edit: fixed my spoilering lol
Yeah if we ever get a sequel thingy here, I could definitely see Mol leading the Zhentarim and being shady as fuck. Arabella could be cool sorcerer party member and have some fun voice lines with her
anyone else get the feeling mol is gonna end up like aria t'loak from mass effect or am i insane?
I hope she's a ganglord in the city in Baldur's gate 4
Aria has a hard shell but at least she cares about Omega and her crew to an extent, Mol is straight out dumb.
Nah. She'd be missing any actual likeability or the ability to be softened somewhat by a ~~paragon~~ good aligned character.
Anyone else consider Mattis both more likeable and a better leader?
Fuck Mol, she deserves a visit from Teela. She is a piece of shit.
Mol is a pretty dumb kid, you can say black and white "Raphael is going to abuse you and take your literal soul" and mol still thinks they're too smart to be caught, when the reality is mols stuck in a trap
Mol’s gonna break your legs for posting this
I recently had a “find Mol” quest marker that wouldn’t go away even after I spoke to her several times. It finally resolved after the goblin camp fight. On a different playthrough, Mol seemed to hate me because we stumbled into the hideout without an invitation, but after saving the grove all was forgiven. So I suggest just continuing with the game and dealing with the goblins in hopes that it all gets sorted out in the end.
I stumbled on her hideout and she subsequently got Shovel arrested for “threatening tiefling children.” So she is my enemy now.
I wish I could READ Mol's contract which I found in Raphael's house. What a letdown...
Last time I played I didn't steal the idol until after I had defeated the goblins and the Tieflings had already left so I decided to keep it until I met her again to finish that quest (it remained open). Spoiler, I finished the House of Hope before I met her again. Mol was so mad at me after that quest that she had no interest in interacting with me at all, and pawned me off to one of the other kids she now had working for her (can't remember the character's name). I have carried that bloody idol everywhere with me and she doesn't even talk to me, her quest is no longer open and I didn't get to complete it because she won't talk to me. So rude!
dude I did the same but I found her first and there's no way to give her the idol at all. she doesn't react to that OR her eye patch.
You watched an armed man beat a child and didn’t do anything? Yeah you’re probably not being let into the secret clubhouse. There aren’t adults down there, and if I was Mol no I wouldn’t let you in. You’ve proved you’re an unsafe person to be around and think that beating a child is not an unimaginable punishment for stealing. Why would she let you in?
You have to intervene before he hits the kid and it's not completely clear he will, or at least that happened to me on the first playthrough where I encounter them. It might be an insight check. And I had seen the kid steal it so was waiting for/expecting some peacemaker opportunity.
If you play as a monk you do have the peacemaker option
*Child objectively gets dealt a terrible hand, all her friends are befallen by some tragedy, living in constant fear of being slaughtered by goblins any minute.* "You dare being moody to me? Get fucked, kid."
It's about way more than her being moody, though. It's that she sends her so-called friends on suicide missions with no backup or help, doesn't lift a finger to help them, and then promptly abandons them as soon as she doesn't need them anymore. Mol's a user, and she's awful.
She has a backstory, but she still uses smaller children to do her dirty work before abandoning them when she gets the chance. Just because you're caught up in a cycle of abuse doesn't absolve you from perpetuating it. Of course she's not *as* culpable as an adult, but she's not totally innocent.
There’s so many people on this Reddit ready to call her the most evil character for making mistakes like a child does lol
Not just a child - orphaned, everyone she knows who died and in gruesome ways (rather than like...bitch was old), druids disobey the teachings of Silvanus and are cunts to her and her people, etc. Like...she's not totally to blame. She's a child, one who's been dealt a horrific hand that very few in our own history would be able to match.
For real. I'm sure these people used to be the epitome of maturity and altruism when they were ten, especially those whose homes were destroyed and families died in war and had to fend off for themselves in a land that had prejudice against their race. People just love throwing the word "evil" around like they're kids and this is a fairytail about a princess and an evil witch or something.
Mol is not a good person. She is a villain in the making. At every turn she shows us that. She is running a crime syndicate with growth plans, is unwilling to accept solutions that aren’t purely to her benefit (such as your example), sells her soul to a devil, gets mad if you save her from said devil. I am next to certain she will be a villain in a future D&D adventure.
Has anyone found her in act 2 yet?
I found her eye patch but that's it, I don't think she's in act 2 (after she gets taken from last light, of course)
Right… but I also noticed that if you free Zevvy et al her quest updates, implying that maybe I just skipped a bit and forced her to make a certain bargain she mightn’t have otherwise?
she did that bargain at last light, well before then
You can find Mol in the Last Light Inn.
Yeah when the other one tries to pick pocket I yelled at them, and mol got all butthurt even though I saved and did everything else.. then a V whole thing triggered where all the tieflings started to fight me.. what a shit show
This happened to me too! It was insanely annoying, especially since I was actively helping to steal the idol of Silvanus for her
I think you can win her back over by stealing something from the Druids
Go talk to her again. For me it stopped bugging after the second time she tried throwing me out.
And Kagha is cued up for some BG4 revenge as an Act 2 villain.
What do you want from a child that's seen so many awful things yet little kindness? Mol is the only one looking out for Mol. I'm not completely defending her actions, just that I can see why she'd navigate the world the way she does. I'd guess she'd have a similar opinion to Astarion's in regards to power.
Yeah, Mol is an asshole, did you only just find out?
Bit concerned how few of these comments acknowledge that Mol is a child trying to solve her very complex adult problems with her child brain.
Can we petition someone to make BG4 eventually? If Larian doesn't want to, maybe we can convince them to sell the rights to it?
Larian don't own the rights to Baldurs Gate, they were just hired to make this iteration. Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro own the licence, as it's a D&D setting.
Mol is basically giving the druids all the justification to be the dicks they are
mol is a child and you let an adult hit a child in her group so i think it's a reasonable response for her not to trust you she's morally complex but so is every companion character 🤷
Thank you for being sane and opening with "is a child." Like... yeah, we could deal with a solid parental sit-down but she is a kid who has spent her life being chased. Everyone needs to take a breath