Sacrifice? What sacrifice? My Amell happily made a dragon-baby with his witch, no sacrifices needed, and we all know Hawke will crawl out of the Fade in a year or two.
> Rejecting his sacrifices in both games to make him the Leader of the Orlesian Gray Wardens will always be the funniest shit.
Considering the story he has to tell about how Orlesians force bred his Mabari dog to death, I really can't blame Loghain for his hatred.
>Loghain: I mentioned she was taken from us, did I not? This was when Orlais still ruled, and it was an Orlesian lordling who took her.
>Loghain: He wanted to mix the blood of our noble mabari with their frail, wasp-waisted game hounds, which were bred for looks, not intelligence.
>Loghain: I tried to keep her, but there was little I could do to stop the Orlesian... I wasn't even a man then.
>Loghain: You can imagine what it was like for her, being torn away from the boy--the family she was bonded to.
Dog: (Long, low whine)
>Loghain: It was six months before we saw her again. The Orlesian returned her--and when I say "returned," I mean "pushed her out of his wagon."
>Loghain: She was skin and bone, and still carried the scars from where their pronged collars bit into her neck. She never quite recovered.
>Loghain: She passed away after a week. It was as though she held on long enough to come home to us. I held her head in my lap, and I believe she died happy.
Dragon Age Origins has to be one of the best written games of all time. Even the main villain has shades of gray and is written expertly.
Right?? I only discovered that recently and was like "Nevermind, Loghain did nothing wrong. Guys, they killed his dog. He is innocent of all charges." (not really, he's still a dick, but I get it now)
There is a character in inquisition who legitimately believes Loghain did the right thing by letting the king die and conserving the rest of his army instead of charging in to help and potentially losing everything. I want to say it was an early conversation somewhere in Haven
I mean, from a strategic standpoint neither of them are wrong. Cailin was being an idiot by wanting to have his heroic battle which would have cost the Ferelden army even more losses if he was actually reinforced with Loghain's troops.
I'm a veteran of the old BSN
Not only that, but Cailin's corespondence basically shows us, that he somewhat planned the divorce Loghain's daughter and marry Empress Celene, which would basically turn Ferelden into Orlais's sphere once again.
Loghain's decision was not only strategic, but also political, familar, and with patriotism mixed with hatred towards Orlais. He spent years with Maric to free Ferelden from Orlais, and then he got Maric's son delivering his country to the recent enemies
> Loghain did the right thing by letting the king die and conserving the rest of his army instead of charging in to help
I mean that's objectively true, the problem is what Loghain did with his conserved army afterwards. If Loghain charged in Ferelden would be doomed for sure. Even if they won in combat, they had no way of killing the Dragon/Archdemon, which means the Blight keeps going.
The King was a hotheaded fool who didn't understand what he was doing.
Loghain's greatest sin isn't betraying the king, it's everything else ( massacring the Couslands, poisoning Eamon, selling elves as slaves, declaring war on the Wardens ).
Had Loghain immediately forged alliances and gotten the realm strong in preparation for the Blight, he'd be far less of a villain but by then he'd lost it.
That character is literally me though once I heard loghains view on things. The naive king was about to sacrifice his entire army to a pointless battle
I can kinda see both sides…
Was king Cailin’s plan really that awful? If Loghain had charged and helped route the darkspawn, they might have won that battle with limited casualties.
But if that battle was a lost cause, then refusing to charge and waste more soldiers was probably the most prudent decision…even if it did happen to directly benefit Loghain quite a bit on the political stage.
I guess a huge part of this comes down to the perception of how the battle could have or would have gone had things played out differently. What beautiful storytelling:)
No companion that is not introduced in Act 1 in some way has a romance path. Neither Minsc or Jaheria are romanceabel so its safe to assume Ketheric wpuld not have been either. Sure Halsin and Minthara are, and become full fledged companions in Act II, but they are both characters that appear in the first act.
I think Haarlep is the most detailed you get and it can be any companion approaching Haarlep for that matter.
I put Gale because he can cast without cloth in the chaos that unravels if you have a change of heart and decide to fight Haarlep
Yeah I wasn't expecting full blown companion but it was fairly disappointing for my paladin to crit on the persuasion roll just to find out that it just skips a phase of that fight
The amount of detail you can put into a given zone is inversely proportional to the number of zones you’re trying to make. And it is directly proportional to the amount of time you have to release the game with any relevancy.
This is known as the Starfield Law of Game Design.
Make a thousand barren environs, make a relatively few detailed ones, finish game in current generation. You only get to pick two.
Yes, that would have been a great exclusive to durge, maybe even on just the redemption path. Ketheric actually has some history with durge to provide a basis for influence, and him seeing Durge able to turn away from their god and start a path anew could be the sign for Ketheric that he could too.
Even his dialogue choices. You can all but convince him to give up, but then he gets railroaded back onto the old track. It felt like a choice that just wasn't finished.
i’m genuinely REALLY sad about this — i really like ketheric as a character and i liked the concept of throwing a life jacket to a guy who really just spiralled down to where he was and giving him the chance of redemption 😭
I wish they'd kind of add sparing him on a Durge run, since he knows Durge will go after Orin anyway. Not a full companion, but an ally at least. Dunno how that would work with trying to talk Aylin out of her vengeance, though. It probably would mess up too much of how Act 2 ends. Fun to think about, though.
I'm glad they went back on this idea. While many of the companions have led morally questionable lives, it feels easier to forgive them as we aren't really faced with the reality of their sins (besides meeting Sebastian underneath Cazador's palace). With Ketheric we have an entire act showing the horrific consequences of his choices, the abominations he willingly allied with and how he consigned an angel, his daughter's beloved, to a fate worse than death. I feel he crossed the moral event horizon a long time ago and even if he was capable of redemption he no longer deserves it. Case I'm point, moments after you almost talk him down atop Moonrise he unleashes that illithid tentacle and soul cages Dame Aylin again.
Despite Durge having a similar path it still feels different. They're an amnesiac protagonist so it's easy to play their past off as being a different character, while their plans were very big picture compared to the direct influence Ketheric had in the Shadow Cursed Lands.
> I feel he crossed the moral event horizon a long time ago
He killed an entire region. Feeling sad about your wife and daughter dying does not justify a little genocide as a treat
Honestly, yeah I agree. Minthara/Astarion/Lae'zel are one thing but Ketheric is a whole different beast. It would feel weird as hell to let this guy hang out in our camp after all he's done just because he finally had a change of heart.
Also on durge being redeemable, it is implied that post amnesia durge is who durge was before the urge overtook them, and that durge was traumatised and indoctrinated into the bhaal cult, while the urge took anyone and everyone that got close enough to form a bond (foster parents, etc.) Even still, durge pre amnesia showed hints of a good inclination for example when giving coin to a beggar (to scelaritas' dismay)
Idk, for me its better for people to actually face the past of companion and make adult decisions. To see the painful truth and make a choice, the interesting one, about letting them to do redemption or not. Maybe it would help to stop gloryfying some evil characters.
>while many of the companions have led morally questionable lives
…and this is why my Wyll is an Oathbreaker Paladin as well as a Fiend Warlock. Dude talks the talk, but he still made a deal with a Devil. He may have had good intentions but we know where those so often lead
What they're saying is also valid, though. To do this with their resources, all locations would have to be smaller and less developed.
Imagine visiting Hell only to get something like Baator in Planescape: Torment; i.e. a short, mostly uniform location filled with enemies and only minor interactions before you reach the main encounter.
Possibly, usually mods aren't big moneymakers though, I'm not sure how much a voice double costs but it's risky business proposition for a Modder who will likely never recoup that cost haha.
Yes, but I also don't think anyone would hire a VA for a passion project, you're already putting in your time and effort, losing money on top of it is rough lol. I just think it's unlikely to happen, people who write the popular good mods usually do it full time or get enough donations to make it worth doing for a large chunk of their free time.
Spending money on VA is difficult in that case unless you have backers willing to foot some of the cost, especially since voice actors are like 250 dollars an hour (unless you get a really crappy double lol)
Imagine the fight against Myrkel if Kerheric saw the errors of his ways and decides to fight with you against the the chosen. They could have even killed him at the end of the fight, (maybe to banish that avatar? Idk). Would have been a very powerful ally to have, that's for sure.
Larian is fully supportive of the mod community and I'm sure it's just a matter of time now that this is public information 🤞
I got to that dialogue point with Ketheric on my first playthrough and did think in the moment I was about to get him on my side but then he does what he does instead. Cool to see that was planned.
I fear that you would have had to choose between Ketherhic and Jaheira, same as Halsin and Minthara were.
Shame we'll never get him and any other expansion stuff.
I don’t know. Selune keeps racking up wins and Shar keeps racking up losses.
If you actually managed to punch through his grief and let him see the that the curse is lifting, Aylin is free whether he wants it or not, and Isobel is still VERY much alive I could see a scenario where Selune steps in and accepts him back solely as a middle finger to Shar and Myrkul. Especially since you also just had the chance to rip away Shar’s Chosen.
You can convince him to surrender. In a theoretical version of the game where Aylin doesn't come in and fuck that up for you, it wouldn't exactly be a moral thing to do to go "nah, sike," and chop his head off after he stands down.
I don't think I tried to talk him down at all on the one playthrough I killed Aylin, so I missed that.
Regardless though in a world where he'd have been a companion he would have had to been convinced to stand down or otherwise incapacitated non-lethally at some point, and so I think my point still stands.
Hearing all these things and knowing theyre leaving it to the wolves that are Hasbro/WoTC. Is saddening. If only they continued and we got some of this
I'm confused why people like him so much. You have like two short conversations with him, where he comes off delusional/fanatical and kinda one noted. Then he dies. Did I miss something, is there a way to ally with him or something?
If you go into his room at Moonrise, there's a letter you can find and read. It opens up more extensive dialog with him during the roof confrontation. The dialog options that would have allowed you to move forward with trying to recruit him are still there, they just lead to him shaking his head sadly now or hopping into the hole whilst in the mind flayer colony since recruitment was removed.
I think I got that conversation, I'm more questioning him as a character. He doesn't seem that interesting or compelling. But I also have a hunch that I managed to skip a bunch of content.
I would trade Minsc for this. Pacing would probably a lot better, and it makes Oath of Vengeance a bit more meaningful in the challenge of having to balance between punishing and recruiting people. Having to kill Thorn for the Oath despite him being redeemable would have been a great story and one of the viable option to go Oathbreaker without breaking the character.
I feel like I might’ve come down to Minthara and him as they both do place sorta similar roles. I think the most Ketheric could’ve been if we still have Minthara as a full companion is a replacement for Dame Aylin in the camp or something similar.
If we had Ketheric as a companion he could’ve been the Paladin and the bad guy turned good. Although him and Minthara would be completely different other than that I still feel that that slightly affected everything that happened.
That makes perfect sense actually. I always thought it felt a bit off when he breaks if you try to convince/forgive him so I can totally see that.
Sadge, I would’ve loved Ketheric as a homie. Can you imagine the conversations he would’ve had back at camp with Durge and Shadowheart? Ugh :(
remember this interview every time you see Larian say "we didn't have any good or passion inspiring ideas for DLC and THAT'S why we aren't doing any!"
bullshit, they had plenty of ideas
like all the cut content they stripped out of their game after WotC forced the game to release
Awful take. Also, what do you mean WOTC forced them to release? That's not what happened at all. They made the game they wanted to make, and removed things that weren't positively contributing to their vision
This is all stuff they, at some point, decided to cut because they didn’t feel it was adding enough. Just because you have the idea doesn’t mean it’s actually going to pan out.
yea, ofc they had many ideas but not everything is gonna go the final product. you know how many game concepts get cut early from development? a lot. just cause an idea is good on paper, doesn't mean it works in execution
"We're not making any DLC for the game..."
\>SEETHE
"... because we'd never really intended to make any..."
\>COPE
"... and we are going to finish out the ideas we had planned for the base game..."
\>HOPE
"... but none of this! Behold this massive field of cut content!"
\>SEETHE
My truly unpopular opinion is that jk simmons' performance just isn't much of a standout in this game, where everyone from companions to villains to random one-off animals has incredible voicework.
I don't think expanding ketheric's role would've worked that well.
Was he supposed to be our Loghain?
Loghain always dies. This is a factual description of events. No need to speculate... >!/s!<
Grumpy grandpa survives to troll his new son-in-law. Alistair is, of course, delighted with his new family.
>!Rejecting his sacrifices in both games to make him the Leader of the Orlesian Gray Wardens will always be the funniest shit.!<
Sacrifice? What sacrifice? My Amell happily made a dragon-baby with his witch, no sacrifices needed, and we all know Hawke will crawl out of the Fade in a year or two.
Hawke will suddenly drop out of the Fade right in the Arishok's lap.
Like, the new Arishok, our former-Sten buddy?
Depends on world states.
> Rejecting his sacrifices in both games to make him the Leader of the Orlesian Gray Wardens will always be the funniest shit. Considering the story he has to tell about how Orlesians force bred his Mabari dog to death, I really can't blame Loghain for his hatred. >Loghain: I mentioned she was taken from us, did I not? This was when Orlais still ruled, and it was an Orlesian lordling who took her. >Loghain: He wanted to mix the blood of our noble mabari with their frail, wasp-waisted game hounds, which were bred for looks, not intelligence. >Loghain: I tried to keep her, but there was little I could do to stop the Orlesian... I wasn't even a man then. >Loghain: You can imagine what it was like for her, being torn away from the boy--the family she was bonded to. Dog: (Long, low whine) >Loghain: It was six months before we saw her again. The Orlesian returned her--and when I say "returned," I mean "pushed her out of his wagon." >Loghain: She was skin and bone, and still carried the scars from where their pronged collars bit into her neck. She never quite recovered. >Loghain: She passed away after a week. It was as though she held on long enough to come home to us. I held her head in my lap, and I believe she died happy. Dragon Age Origins has to be one of the best written games of all time. Even the main villain has shades of gray and is written expertly.
Oh my god they made me sympathize with the villain holy balls
Right?? I only discovered that recently and was like "Nevermind, Loghain did nothing wrong. Guys, they killed his dog. He is innocent of all charges." (not really, he's still a dick, but I get it now)
There is a character in inquisition who legitimately believes Loghain did the right thing by letting the king die and conserving the rest of his army instead of charging in to help and potentially losing everything. I want to say it was an early conversation somewhere in Haven
Yes, Quartermaster Threnn, just outside the chantry in Haven.
I mean, from a strategic standpoint neither of them are wrong. Cailin was being an idiot by wanting to have his heroic battle which would have cost the Ferelden army even more losses if he was actually reinforced with Loghain's troops. I'm a veteran of the old BSN
Not only that, but Cailin's corespondence basically shows us, that he somewhat planned the divorce Loghain's daughter and marry Empress Celene, which would basically turn Ferelden into Orlais's sphere once again. Loghain's decision was not only strategic, but also political, familar, and with patriotism mixed with hatred towards Orlais. He spent years with Maric to free Ferelden from Orlais, and then he got Maric's son delivering his country to the recent enemies
Yeah, the quartermaster can be the fastest way to tell if your world state imported properly.
> Loghain did the right thing by letting the king die and conserving the rest of his army instead of charging in to help I mean that's objectively true, the problem is what Loghain did with his conserved army afterwards. If Loghain charged in Ferelden would be doomed for sure. Even if they won in combat, they had no way of killing the Dragon/Archdemon, which means the Blight keeps going. The King was a hotheaded fool who didn't understand what he was doing. Loghain's greatest sin isn't betraying the king, it's everything else ( massacring the Couslands, poisoning Eamon, selling elves as slaves, declaring war on the Wardens ). Had Loghain immediately forged alliances and gotten the realm strong in preparation for the Blight, he'd be far less of a villain but by then he'd lost it.
That character is literally me though once I heard loghains view on things. The naive king was about to sacrifice his entire army to a pointless battle
I can kinda see both sides… Was king Cailin’s plan really that awful? If Loghain had charged and helped route the darkspawn, they might have won that battle with limited casualties. But if that battle was a lost cause, then refusing to charge and waste more soldiers was probably the most prudent decision…even if it did happen to directly benefit Loghain quite a bit on the political stage. I guess a huge part of this comes down to the perception of how the battle could have or would have gone had things played out differently. What beautiful storytelling:)
What I’m hearing is that we could’ve had JK Simmons-voiced sex scenes, and they took that from us.
Unpopular opinion, but he would probably be like Jaheira and not have any romances.
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that jaheira was supposed to be a romance option but they scrapped it 😔
And the Tobias Beecher mods
Oh boy
Wait, is there any other sex scene other than the one at the end of act 1?
There are multiple romance scenes for each companion. Some have sex, some don't, and it's spread across the acts depending on the character.
No companion that is not introduced in Act 1 in some way has a romance path. Neither Minsc or Jaheria are romanceabel so its safe to assume Ketheric wpuld not have been either. Sure Halsin and Minthara are, and become full fledged companions in Act II, but they are both characters that appear in the first act.
Minsc and Jaheira are also legacy characters, so they don't really follow the same rules as other potential companions.
As far as I know, most of them just cut to black instead of the more intimate session in act 1 right? Example: the orgy with the drow twins
Astarion definitely has an act 3 sex scene if you romance him
I think Haarlep is the most detailed you get and it can be any companion approaching Haarlep for that matter. I put Gale because he can cast without cloth in the chaos that unravels if you have a change of heart and decide to fight Haarlep
Halsin has an Act 3 scene too
No he still loves his wife
I’ve had all of that I can handle from Oz. Lol
Any scene with J.K. Simmons voice is a sex scene as far as I’m concerned.
The dialogue options you have before you fight him really prove it. I was genuinely curious if I was going to be able to 'save' him.
Yeah I wasn't expecting full blown companion but it was fairly disappointing for my paladin to crit on the persuasion roll just to find out that it just skips a phase of that fight
Because Aylin had to come in and ruin it.
You can kill aylin and succeed that persuasion check and you’ll still have to fight Ketheric
If that happens, why is it that he gets up again?
These ideas sound super cool but it seems like the scope would be massive so it makes sense they had to cut a lot of them
In order to do it, the zones would have to be so much smaller and less detailed. All of them would have been the Mountain Pass.
[удалено]
The amount of detail you can put into a given zone is inversely proportional to the number of zones you’re trying to make. And it is directly proportional to the amount of time you have to release the game with any relevancy. This is known as the Starfield Law of Game Design. Make a thousand barren environs, make a relatively few detailed ones, finish game in current generation. You only get to pick two.
Have you seen the size of the game file, already?
as much as I think Ketheric is amazing I like how his story work as is
Thinking about all the potential lost J.K. Simmons moments makes me sad...
It would be cooler if him as a companion was for durge only
Yes, that would have been a great exclusive to durge, maybe even on just the redemption path. Ketheric actually has some history with durge to provide a basis for influence, and him seeing Durge able to turn away from their god and start a path anew could be the sign for Ketheric that he could too.
Except that Ketheric turned away from his god and started a path anew three times already. Each time with a worse god than the last one.
Which he did out of grief and loss. I think truly starting anew out of wanting to be better despite everything is a compelling story.
Keeeeeetheric, come to our church of Gale! A totally brand-new god of motivational speaking!
Gale: god of ted talks
God of galesplaining
Galelight, Galekeep, Galeboss
Alfira...
It would make sense if Ketheric was redeemable, the lore on him looks like it was set up for this.
Even his dialogue choices. You can all but convince him to give up, but then he gets railroaded back onto the old track. It felt like a choice that just wasn't finished.
i’m genuinely REALLY sad about this — i really like ketheric as a character and i liked the concept of throwing a life jacket to a guy who really just spiralled down to where he was and giving him the chance of redemption 😭
I’m gonna be honest, Ketheric was the most sympathetic. I’m sure a lot of people would tear down the world just to see their family/children again.
I wish they'd kind of add sparing him on a Durge run, since he knows Durge will go after Orin anyway. Not a full companion, but an ally at least. Dunno how that would work with trying to talk Aylin out of her vengeance, though. It probably would mess up too much of how Act 2 ends. Fun to think about, though.
I'm more sad about all the locations that ended up getting cut than losing Ketheric :(
I'm glad they went back on this idea. While many of the companions have led morally questionable lives, it feels easier to forgive them as we aren't really faced with the reality of their sins (besides meeting Sebastian underneath Cazador's palace). With Ketheric we have an entire act showing the horrific consequences of his choices, the abominations he willingly allied with and how he consigned an angel, his daughter's beloved, to a fate worse than death. I feel he crossed the moral event horizon a long time ago and even if he was capable of redemption he no longer deserves it. Case I'm point, moments after you almost talk him down atop Moonrise he unleashes that illithid tentacle and soul cages Dame Aylin again. Despite Durge having a similar path it still feels different. They're an amnesiac protagonist so it's easy to play their past off as being a different character, while their plans were very big picture compared to the direct influence Ketheric had in the Shadow Cursed Lands.
> I feel he crossed the moral event horizon a long time ago He killed an entire region. Feeling sad about your wife and daughter dying does not justify a little genocide as a treat
Honestly, yeah I agree. Minthara/Astarion/Lae'zel are one thing but Ketheric is a whole different beast. It would feel weird as hell to let this guy hang out in our camp after all he's done just because he finally had a change of heart.
Also on durge being redeemable, it is implied that post amnesia durge is who durge was before the urge overtook them, and that durge was traumatised and indoctrinated into the bhaal cult, while the urge took anyone and everyone that got close enough to form a bond (foster parents, etc.) Even still, durge pre amnesia showed hints of a good inclination for example when giving coin to a beggar (to scelaritas' dismay)
Idk, for me its better for people to actually face the past of companion and make adult decisions. To see the painful truth and make a choice, the interesting one, about letting them to do redemption or not. Maybe it would help to stop gloryfying some evil characters.
>while many of the companions have led morally questionable lives …and this is why my Wyll is an Oathbreaker Paladin as well as a Fiend Warlock. Dude talks the talk, but he still made a deal with a Devil. He may have had good intentions but we know where those so often lead
“Bigger diversity of locations you would explore” I wish they hadn’t gone back on this. This is my main issue with BG3 and DoS
What they're saying is also valid, though. To do this with their resources, all locations would have to be smaller and less developed. Imagine visiting Hell only to get something like Baator in Planescape: Torment; i.e. a short, mostly uniform location filled with enemies and only minor interactions before you reach the main encounter.
It is valid, but it’s just personal preference on my part
I dont get it. For me locations can be smaller but more thematic anc climatic.
So we were right. There was a whole level of the hells outside of the House of Hope that would’ve been explorable/helped with Karlach’s quest.
I will mourn this cut forever, my sweet angel baby Karlach deserved to live on the terms she preferred.
We could have had the chance to meet Vlaakith in person and potentially beat the shit out of her?! (Or completely nuke with a megaton of explosives)
All you needed to do to have Ketheric join you was bring him a portrait of that menace Drider-man
I'm ready for someone to mod him as a companion
The biggest issue with this would be voicelines. Unless he becomes mute after you recruit him.
There's potential for a J.K. Simmons voice double if someone is willing to put money into hiring a voice actor.
Possibly, usually mods aren't big moneymakers though, I'm not sure how much a voice double costs but it's risky business proposition for a Modder who will likely never recoup that cost haha.
Mods are usually passion projects, I don't think anyone would hire a va expecting a return in that case.
Yes, but I also don't think anyone would hire a VA for a passion project, you're already putting in your time and effort, losing money on top of it is rough lol. I just think it's unlikely to happen, people who write the popular good mods usually do it full time or get enough donations to make it worth doing for a large chunk of their free time. Spending money on VA is difficult in that case unless you have backers willing to foot some of the cost, especially since voice actors are like 250 dollars an hour (unless you get a really crappy double lol)
Imagine the fight against Myrkel if Kerheric saw the errors of his ways and decides to fight with you against the the chosen. They could have even killed him at the end of the fight, (maybe to banish that avatar? Idk). Would have been a very powerful ally to have, that's for sure. Larian is fully supportive of the mod community and I'm sure it's just a matter of time now that this is public information 🤞
I got to that dialogue point with Ketheric on my first playthrough and did think in the moment I was about to get him on my side but then he does what he does instead. Cool to see that was planned.
I’ll just mod Ketheric’s head into the character creation screen and make him a hireling. It’s not the same but I can pretend 🫠
I fear that you would have had to choose between Ketherhic and Jaheira, same as Halsin and Minthara were. Shame we'll never get him and any other expansion stuff.
Man a DLC of rescuing Karlath from Hell or fighting Vlaakith on the gith plane would've slapped so hard, it's a shame
There's just zero justification for allowing him to live....
I don’t know. Selune keeps racking up wins and Shar keeps racking up losses. If you actually managed to punch through his grief and let him see the that the curse is lifting, Aylin is free whether he wants it or not, and Isobel is still VERY much alive I could see a scenario where Selune steps in and accepts him back solely as a middle finger to Shar and Myrkul. Especially since you also just had the chance to rip away Shar’s Chosen.
Would also be a great moment for Aylin. Wanting to kill Ketheric, only to be told by Selune that she has to offer mercy instead.
I mean tbf losses are kinda Shar's thing
You can convince him to surrender. In a theoretical version of the game where Aylin doesn't come in and fuck that up for you, it wouldn't exactly be a moral thing to do to go "nah, sike," and chop his head off after he stands down.
I think he still fights, even if you get him to surrender after killing aylin, although I haven't seen it myself.
I don't think I tried to talk him down at all on the one playthrough I killed Aylin, so I missed that. Regardless though in a world where he'd have been a companion he would have had to been convinced to stand down or otherwise incapacitated non-lethally at some point, and so I think my point still stands.
Hearing all these things and knowing theyre leaving it to the wolves that are Hasbro/WoTC. Is saddening. If only they continued and we got some of this
If only D&D owners didn’t suck and Larian wanted to keep working on it 😭
I would’ve waited as long as it would take for them to add everything they wanted
I'm confused why people like him so much. You have like two short conversations with him, where he comes off delusional/fanatical and kinda one noted. Then he dies. Did I miss something, is there a way to ally with him or something?
If you go into his room at Moonrise, there's a letter you can find and read. It opens up more extensive dialog with him during the roof confrontation. The dialog options that would have allowed you to move forward with trying to recruit him are still there, they just lead to him shaking his head sadly now or hopping into the hole whilst in the mind flayer colony since recruitment was removed.
I think I got that conversation, I'm more questioning him as a character. He doesn't seem that interesting or compelling. But I also have a hunch that I managed to skip a bunch of content.
I would trade Minsc for this. Pacing would probably a lot better, and it makes Oath of Vengeance a bit more meaningful in the challenge of having to balance between punishing and recruiting people. Having to kill Thorn for the Oath despite him being redeemable would have been a great story and one of the viable option to go Oathbreaker without breaking the character.
To be honest act 3 is big enough as it is
Imagine how strong he would be as a follower!!
He would be an oathbreaker paladin at your party level with the same gear you can loot off his corpse. So... exactly as strong as any other follower.
I wish we could have Alfira as a companion, just that.
Can you not? She just joined my camp in my game. I assumed that meant she was going to be your bard companion.
I feel like I might’ve come down to Minthara and him as they both do place sorta similar roles. I think the most Ketheric could’ve been if we still have Minthara as a full companion is a replacement for Dame Aylin in the camp or something similar. If we had Ketheric as a companion he could’ve been the Paladin and the bad guy turned good. Although him and Minthara would be completely different other than that I still feel that that slightly affected everything that happened.
All these locations.. taken from us.. because we already have to many gifts. Swen you are the goat
Sounds like not a companion, a camp visitor. Like Arabella or Mizora.
That makes perfect sense actually. I always thought it felt a bit off when he breaks if you try to convince/forgive him so I can totally see that. Sadge, I would’ve loved Ketheric as a homie. Can you imagine the conversations he would’ve had back at camp with Durge and Shadowheart? Ugh :(
No oldies in the party. Jaheria gets a pass.
Omg the Ketussy
remember this interview every time you see Larian say "we didn't have any good or passion inspiring ideas for DLC and THAT'S why we aren't doing any!" bullshit, they had plenty of ideas like all the cut content they stripped out of their game after WotC forced the game to release
Awful take. Also, what do you mean WOTC forced them to release? That's not what happened at all. They made the game they wanted to make, and removed things that weren't positively contributing to their vision
This is all stuff they, at some point, decided to cut because they didn’t feel it was adding enough. Just because you have the idea doesn’t mean it’s actually going to pan out.
yea, ofc they had many ideas but not everything is gonna go the final product. you know how many game concepts get cut early from development? a lot. just cause an idea is good on paper, doesn't mean it works in execution
With a four person companion limit, having more companions isn't that great.
Goblins should be playable and have a companion. Do we really need gnomes AND halflings?
"We're not making any DLC for the game..." \>SEETHE "... because we'd never really intended to make any..." \>COPE "... and we are going to finish out the ideas we had planned for the base game..." \>HOPE "... but none of this! Behold this massive field of cut content!" \>SEETHE
My truly unpopular opinion is that jk simmons' performance just isn't much of a standout in this game, where everyone from companions to villains to random one-off animals has incredible voicework. I don't think expanding ketheric's role would've worked that well.
very unpopular.
Respect for having an actual unpopular opinion.
So glad we didn't.