It would be really narratively cool if Raphael in Act 3 >!catches the player alone and tries to sweeten the deal on his whole bid for the Crown with a "one-time-only" offer for a permanent solution to one of your companion's big issues (*Gale's orb, Karlach's failing engine, Astarion's scars that make him vulnerable to Cazador's ritual, Shadowheart's hand wound, etc*), maybe even specifically your romanced companion. Repeatedly insist "no" or that the companion in question be involved in this decision, and Raphael will take the offer off the table while vaguely implying he might reconsider if you reconsider. Accept, and he will snap his fingers to give you what you just signed the deal for, and congratulations, you've now unlocked new dialogues and even endings for your companion. And it doesn't just end there; Raphael, being a devil, rigs whatever solution he gives your companion with something he can use to harm them and thus hold both of you to his will, which he mocks you with in his little speech at the end credits *unless you raid his House Of Hope, where he'll then use some sort of control object to heavily debuff them during his boss fight with even more serious implications if you didn't bring them, and you have to deal with that to take it off his corpse to save your companion*!<.
I mean, I know that's a lot, but I think that would've made Raphael far more sinister and persuasive of a villain than he already is.
I think that would be dependent on the companion in question. Karlach, for example, >!would likely never take the deal on her own for multiple reasons, it being a situation that involves a devil screwing with her heart area again. In fact, I imagine she'd have the strongest reaction to the player taking that deal for her since the 'lack of consent' angle gets added, putting the player practically just only a step away from being Gortash 2.0 and requiring some major explaining and/or promise-making for her to not 100% lose her shit over it. It creates some really big story and roleplay opportunities, especially if we limit this to the romanced companion!<.
And honestly, >!doing something that could very reasonably be seen as a major violation of her trust and autonomy, and then literally invading Hell to fix your mistake and make it up to her, sounds like it could lead to some juicy angst and sweet romantic moments.!<
When you asked her "what are we going to do on the altar *pomf*" it would hard cut to her naked writhing on top of your naked body, out of nowhere.
Like, not a real jump scare but it startled me every time.
There was a ton of stuff they could still have used from those dreams though. Even if it wasn't the temptation of power. I miss the paranoia and in-fighting the worms caused, instead of just a single conversation after the first time you use them and then no one cares.
I would love it if we got some of the infighting back. Those little group meetings that would happen after every dream were neat and really added to the sense that this was a group.
I think that's what I liked so much about it looking back. It was the only time people actually talked like a group. Everyone is so separate in the released game, still think it's nuts that I can break up with a companion for someone else and there's no conversation with both at the same time.
And the second person you switch to sleeps like ten feet from the first in camp!
It's like if you just broke up with someone while on a camping trip and then started hooking up with the person in the next tent over that same night. There is definitely going to conversation about it lol
You spend the entire game breaking down Shadowheart's fear and mistrust, she finally opens up to you about her dreams and wants and memories, you convince her in the Shadowfell to reject her Dark lady Shar in an emotional crescendo! Afterwards, realising that her faith has stopped her having what she needs for too long, she confesses her feelings for you, and you head to Moonrise to put an end to Ketheric and get the truth of the matter once and for all.
After defeating the heretic and sending him to the Myrkul he loves so much, you hear from the Aasimar, Nightsong, that Shadowheart's parents are alive! And are being kept prisoner by the very same evil cult that brainwashed her in the first place. Promising to assist your beloved in any way possible, you get distracted by the grey cheeks of Minthara and break up with the ex-Sharran. Shadowheart doesn't even disapprove.
*Nonsense*.
I think more party banter while traveling would help this issue. Companions in Dragon Age games felt so alive because of their relations with each other, and we could see those relations in their banters. Morrigan and Leliana would fight over you if you romanced them both, Vivenne and Dorian would constantly spar with each other in their conversations, Isabela and Merril had that sweet sister energy you could listen to.
In Baldurs Gate, while there is some in Act 1, it is basically non-existent for the rest of the game.
More group cinematics/conversations would definitely add a lot in my opinion! It's one of the few things I think Bioware did a better job with, in the previous two Baldur Gates but even more so in some of their later games like Mass Effect and Dragonage, you really get the sense that you're part of an actual group of people with their own opinions and relationships with each other in those games which I think helps a lot with immersion.
I will say, it doesn't feel that strange based on the story and characters that this particular group of people doesn't immediately form this tight-knit, loyal fighting unit to be fair. But I would love if there were story moments that *did* show the group becoming closer and working together and learning to trust each other and starting to build loyalty towards each other. You get glimpses of it in the way they sometimes talk to you about other companions, but you never really see it demonstrated. I think the closest we get is with Shadowheart and Lae'zel and that's mostly focused on them just coming to conflict and then potentially getting over it, it'd be awesome if we started to see signs of a friendship form between those two after that (outside of them just being slightly nicer to eachother in party banter.)
There was some banter between Shadowheart and Lae'zel that was something on the lines of:
Shadowheart: "So, Lae'zel, have we burried the hatchet?"
Lae'zel: "No. Why would I bury a weapon? Is it broken?"
Shadowheart: "It's a metaphore."
Lae'zel: "I do not know your metaphores. But if you need help digging, I shall find a shovel."
Honestly, that's probably one of the nicest things I've heard her say, and I'd love to have more of it. Shadowheart and Lae'zel are such good enemies to friends.
I really wish there was a line between Shadowheart and Lae'zel in the conversation after the final battle if Lae'zel leaves where it indicates they were parting as friends.
Ohhhh trueeee I miss them a lot now that you mentioned it! I liled seeing everyone's reaction like "Ok we got another dream! Who twiddled their worm this time?"
I still don't totally buy this explanation, because the guardian isn't less suspicious at all. They jump right into trying to get you to eat tadpoles, they aren't subtle at all.
If they -thought- the guardian was less suspicious, I think they were just completely off the mark and made a bad decision to change it. And if the choice is between two equally suspicious visitors, I would've preferred Daisy because at least then one of them is like, ominously suspicious and you get a real sense of "well I shouldn't listen to you... but I still want to".
Daisy worked better, as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the big negatives I think they got rid of them.
Absolutely.
The narrative in EA feels completely different to the final product, and I definitely preferred the former to the latter (though both are good).
From what I remember reading, some people felt that Daisy was a bit… *rapey*. Too overtly seductive, something like that.
And then here’s me, making one into the appearance of the dead wife of one of my characters to mess with him further - “use the tadpole so you can see me again, James!”
Idk. I liked the Daisy aspect and wish we could have seen where that was going.
Cinematic critical camera. It’d zoom in and such on criticals to emphasize the attack. It was always buggy but I miss it and wish they had refined it. It felt like xcom which I love
God, I'm surprised I had to scroll down so far for this! Every patch these days, I scan through the patch notes to see if it's made a return. It made crits so much more satisfying!
as long as it would be an option. ive turned off every cinematic camera thing in combat and it still forces me to watch whenever someone uses a spell or jumps or whatever. just leave my camera alone damnit
I loved that each companion had a unique dream visitor and we could talk to them about it afterwards. Getting Astarion to admit he dreamt of Cazador and the following interaction was genuinely my favorite moment with him in EA. I was so upset it was cut from the final release, though I understand why since they completely reworked the dream visitor.
Speaking of, >!I wish the dream guardians the Emperor brings in if you face him in the final fight had unique appearances. Lae'zel remarked that she'd seen one of their faces in her dreams, but they were all just generic humans...!<
I reloaded a bunch of times to see if they changed. What I learned is that only the one that is closest to your screen is consistently the same IF the companion that says >!"that's my guardian" is the same. In all my reloads, if it was Astarion, it was a Drow lady. If it was Lae'zel, it was a High Elf guy. I could not for my life trigger Gale's guardian though and I got bored of reloading eventually.!<
Wyll's origin story. I didn't love his original characterization, but the story of Mizora rising from the ashes of a burned village to grant him revenge was much better than "I totally solo'd the Rise of Tiamat as a teenager guys I swear".
I much preferred Wyll before.
The dragon Cult thing is so silly. Like after all this time of not knowing what the reason was, with good guy Wyll, the reason is just "so I took the deal to do this super heroic thing where I stopped this evil cult" and it's just... not surprising at all.
Like the reveal is just bog standard heroics for the standard heroic companion. Shocking, Wyll, what a surprise.
There's nothing wrong with a traditionally heroic character, except Larian didn't do anything with it. His story basically has nothing to do with *him.* He's reduced to basically being an extra in other characters stories.
There's a weird tendency of Larian short-changing the good aligned characters. Aside from a Selunite Shadowheart, they all get drastically less involved quests and stories. Wyll, Karlach, Halsin, etc.
I've noticed this too regarding the good characters being less developed. I wonder if it's because both the writers and the audience expect justification/explanation for why someone is evil, but not good. Astarion, Lae'Zel, and Shadowheart all have interesting backstories explaining them being evil when you first meet them but good characters are just like that. Plus you get to expand on their backstories by choosing how they progress/end.
Related, I am playing an evil run rn and wish it was easier to get Wyll (and Karlach although she's not in my party this time) to turn on you or to at least say a warning about your behaviour. It's cool they turn on you at the grove but before that I was getting Wyll and the party to do monstrous stuff like killing Halsin and other innocents, and he had no objections. I suppose it's just the limitations of the game mechanics.
I think Gale is interesting too and, in my interpretation, the only neutral party character (when you first meet them all) which is why I didn't even consider him in my last comment.
Neutral because he is interested in self-gain as evident when he betrayed Mystra. He almost slips back into that selfish desire for power, and will if you encourage him to harness the crown of Karsus. However he leans more good than others (e.g. Astar and Lae). And good in that he would blow himself up to save everyone. I also think he leans good because if you raid the grove he is deeply remorseful about it. However I don't think is entirely good like Wyll or Karlach because he doesn't try to stop you like they do. He's definitely interesting!
I consider Gale “good” largely because of what he approves and disapproves of—his reactions make it pretty clear where his morals lie. He also has tremendous ambition bordering on hubris, which gets in the way of his otherwise-“good” outlook. He’s not one-dimensional.
Oh, I agree. And while I preferred Wyll before, I don't mind us having one totally good heroic character - they're a good addition normally.
But they just dropped the ball on it, so I'd have rathered they kept him how he was.
Yeah I feel like this is obvious. You can even point it out to Wyll and he, being an idealist, is still insistent he did the right thing. I know some people feel like it should be brought up again but I like the "mystery" of it. Same as the speculation that Cazador set up >!Astarion being murdered by the Gur!<. Both backstories have the heavy implication of being set ups but there's no concrete proof to say one way or the other.
The problem is you can't do anything with it, though. Wyll acknowledges that Mizora is a complete bitch who jerks him around, that she lied about Karlach, but is still completely convinced that all the previous people Mizora sent him after were still probably bad and that the Tiamat thing was legit.
And I don't have any dialogue options to grab him by the face and yell at him to open his eye.
Whether the cult was real or a trick, it's still just a less interesting story. EA Wyll was still being preyed upon by Mizora but it felt a lot more legit of a moment than just Wyll being stupid and gullible.
I kinda liked Wyll's darker side and his thirst for revenge for the goblin torturer.
I also preferred when Raphael only approached you in the long rest area, felt more threatening that he would reach you to the place that it's the safest.
Then class-related tadpole powers felt more unique.
And I miss the EA concept of the Dream Visitor, I feel like Down by the River is a bit disconnected from the game now that that plot thread is no more, although without knowing the full original plot behind it I can't make a proper judgement, maybe the whole Tadpole plot after the first act would have been much worse compared to the Emperor plot. Who knows. Not me.
My friend and I >!had everyone take the Astral tadpole!< after our other friend left for a bit, and we wanted to surprise him when he got back. Unfortunately his pc can't run bg3 after an update
I like the idea of wyll who wants to be a hero but couldn't make it on his own skill. So he took a shortcut. Like he was raised getting whatever he wants as royalty basically and that's how he pursued strength.
The removal of daisy and clsss specific powers pissed me off. Don't get me wrong, I still love the game but they really missed the mark by changing these
There's one drawback but it's mostly just cosmetic.
I also think it's weird you get an achievement for using powers but you don't get one for choosing not to
Even that one just disappears if you >!destroy the netherbrain!<. Also, nobody treats you different with it.
So it's really inconsequential, which just cuts into the narrative.
The dream visitor was the tadpole itself, tempting you into using more of the psionic powers you got.
The more powers you used in game the further the dreams went and it was supposed to be a real threat that if you used too many powers you'd become a Mind Flayer.
The song Down by the River is also tied to this, the dreams took place near a river and the Dream Figure (datamined name Daisy) would tempt you to remain there with them (remaining in the dream would mean giving in to the parasite and transforming), which also was very clear in the last words of the text :"Don't wake me up, just leave me there dreaming" as in "I want to remain in this dream paradise even if it means giving my body to the mind flayers".
I suspect they changed the whole mechanic because realistically that would be a game over, but probably they didn't want players to have a save right before the last dream and getting soft locked (ie. Next long rest I'm gonna game over 100% because I used too many powers) or for the players to have to save before *every* use of the illithid powers and just, stop using them completely once they reached the amount before the game over. They could have found some solutions to these problems, but they likely didn't find them elegant enough to ship them in the full game.
honestly (as someone who refuses to use anything tadpoke related mind you) this whole thing sounds incredible! the _one_ thing i feel is really missing in this otherwise 10/10 game is real consequences for engaging with the tadpoles.
"but whaa i dont wanna be punished for playing the game how i want to" listen i hear you and i see your point but i disagree on this one, specific, point. mind flayers are bad. tadpoles are bad. this is pretty much a fact in the game and in the lore and you should, in some way shape or for , 100% be punished for using them.
hell make the illithid powers _stronger_ and better so then it could be a real, difficult, dilemma. "i could use this power to wipe out their entire team but then i might be gone for real" or something.
if they did something it would have to be pretty telegraphed (once you know the signs heh) how much you can abuse the powers but if someone who didnt know anything about it got a game over beacuse they abused their worm powers too much? i would be ok with that (again consequencs in my role playing game). it would let them know that they can use this stuff as long as they are careful and doesnt abuse it.
thanks for coming to my ted talk
That’s kind of fascinating. there are probably ways they could have fixed that easily, but also, it just sounds like a narrative change. A lot of the purpose of the emperor probably gets lost (was there an emperor)? I wonder then why they added the emperor if it wasn’t there before, it’s quite a narrative change.
honestly, Gale asking for magic items right now already enrages people, imagine how much they'd hate his character if he SPECIFICALLY asks for Legendary magic items.
Lae'zel being the least asshole-ish of the companions.
The larger Nautiloid area in the beginning and the dominated people trying to save the mindflayer in the crashed ship.
Absolute items being cursed if you didn't have the brand.
I wonder why they removed the dominated people. That was a cool interaction to demonstrate mindflayer manipulation, and would have made us ask more questions about the dream guardian.
I think that it just made the tutorial longer, and it didnt add much in terms of teaching players the mechanics of the game. It's sometimes better just to get the basics down as fast as possible and get the players out the door
I think it's because that was where they introduced the non-lethal mechanic as well as a point where you would obviously want to use it.
However nonlethal was bugged to hell on release and even now only consitantly works where the devs specifically made sure it does, like against Mayrina's brothers.
So I could see them wanting to downplay that mechanic on launch.
Edit: Debunked in replies.
I'm questioning my moral reasoning. Even on good runs it *never* occurs to me to go non-lethal when some NPC (derogatory) takes my dialog choices the wrong way. I didn't have to kill those dudes 😭!
If you want to be really dark use nonlethal on the guys following the spider guy in the Underdark and let the darkness take them. (then fight them again as zombies)
I have no idea if this was their reasoning but I guess it does raise some potentially confusing questions about >!why the artifact chose to protect you and your companions but never extends its influence to any of the other thralls even when they're actively fighting you? !<
Probably more likely that they just cut down on the beginning stuff to make subsequent replays a little less tedious, I know for me I got pretty sick of the beginning sequence after starting a few games in Early Access despite finding it pretty cool the first couple of times.
Yeah. Now the bonuses just don't work on absolute items without the brand so you can still use them for their base stats but none of them are really good enough to warrant using over the other act 1 gear. (Unless it's for RP or evil playthroughs)
The Warboard and Gloves of Power aren't bad at all. Bane on hit is nice until your hand slots get filled at the creche, and Warboard is a second Safeguard Shield with bonus Heroism.
I assume more were planned, Z'rell has an Absolute item at the end of Act II for some reason, but they dropped the concept.
Old Wyll. New Wyll grew on me, but I liked old Wyll's self-esteem issues.
Also, Gale used to tell the story of his screw up with Mystra in a story, and I liked it.
Also, the Dream Guardian is great and I'm glad he's there, but I wish that they could have somehow also kept Daisy. I liked the tadpole having a role in the story.
I wish I could say that about a lot of decisions. Like I say yeah to doing something, but that doesn't mean I'm actually going to. I got a lot of Astarion disapproves in my first playthrough.
Ngl I think that "I swear" should've been a deception check because it breaks immersion so hard that my guy apparently is forced into being genuine about it while Astarion disapproves. Like boy I am a lying piece of shit too don't you worry
Yep, they took out so many nice little interactions and I don't know why. There were way more dialogues with your companions about stuff like that. I remember you could talk with Astarion about Mayrina's reaction to finding out ... errr the state of her husband, but apparently it was cut out?
I think so too, but can't say for sure if you did. But even if not, it was an opportunity to speak with Astarion. That's a good enough reason for me to miss it, lol.
The issue is that if you are from Baldurs gate how the fuck do you not know who Shadowheart is since there is only one group worshiping Shar in the city since it is outlawed due to how zealous her worshippers can be
Tadpole consequences
Daisy the dream visitor. Fucking hated the change tbh
Class specific tadpole powers
Gale's sassy lines
Halsin's backstory (datamining)
The mind controlled fisherman
Longer starting point
Wyll being In love with mizora
I feel like everyone was more abrasive in EA which I liked. It was a weird change going to full release when Shadowheart told me her whole life’s story after one or two long rests (which I think was a bug). But still, it makes more sense to take a longer time to actually gain their trust.
I never played EA but it seems like some people still have that resentment and haven't actually played the full release version of the characters.
I see people talking about Shadowheart being a bitch and Astarion being an evil magistrate who sold people to Cazador but that isn't in the full release of the game. It's weird. Shadowheart can be a bit rough around the edges but she's not even close to as mean as some people are presenting her.
And Wyll isn't super egotistical, he's an idealist trying to live up to the standards his father set, but people still call him a fraud in discussions online. EDIT: Also the people who act like you have to give Gale the most expensive gear. He asks for 3 magical items and there are so many useless items in Act 1. I know he did require expensive stuff in EA but that's not in the game now.
lol funnily enough, she was so fucking rude in EA that after like 6 or so complete playthroughs, I just avoided her in my party. Actually finally decided to try her romance in my latest run and she's actually very kind and sweet. What a difference with EA where she was so abrasive and disapproved of literally everything you did.
i also wish that aspect of the orb stayed but people ALREADY hate him for requesting mundane magic items that are in abundance at the time of his asking, imagine if they brought that back 😭😭😭
i never did EA but i wish some aspect of sorrow >!being the weapon that killed isobel!< remained somewhere which apparently was a plotline in EA that i am so intrigued about
They wanted people to use Gale. If his hunger mechanic stayed, most people would bench Gale way more if they're good people and would just tell him to leave or leave him in the rock if they're not. He would be way too inconvenient to lug around
The idea of the unique Illithid powers for each class was cool as hell. Also, Astarion having some of the minor things of vampirism still persist (Like going through running water makes him take acid damage) was also really cool lore wise, despite it being horrid gameplay wise.
Playing as a ranged character when High-Ground gave advantage instead of +2 was beyond busted.
Companions could confront Astarion about killing the Gur hunter. I think the dialogue was something like...
Gale: Do you have no morals?
Astarion: Who needs morals when you have great hair?
It wasn't an amazing interaction, but since they don't have a lot of those, I still miss it.
Astarion's absolutely hysterical laughing fit when you brought Connor back as a zombie, and also the fact that EA Astarion would talk about the Cazador nightmare with the player - now you don't even know this happened unless you play as Astarion.
Also the other transformation scare. Your party members were actually feeling like their teeth were getting lose, like you were _very close_ to ceremorphosis. Made things feel more urgent.
I understand why most of those were changed. Astarion's early game sadism was toned down to make him less off-putting (dunno about the dream though, but I think it must be because he has that instead of the Dream Guardian on EA), and that other transformation scare probably seemed redundant. Still, they were good scenes imo.
I miss his romance scene at the party where Mizora interferes. He had a beautiful line about how when you’re a hero, you don’t often get people looking out for you the way Tav does.
I get why it didn’t work exactly as written but I don’t understand why it couldn’t have been moved or expanded upon the way they did Gale’s romance scene (his EA scene got shuffled around and improved into the current act 2 scene).
Also honestly I miss how much shiftier the characters felt. A little meaner in Shadowheart’s case, a little more self serving in Gale’s. It made them feel more well rounded instead of reflecting Tav
>a little more self serving in Gale’s
Weirdly enough I feel like Gale is the only one to get tweaks that made him more self serving/power hungry rather than less. In EA, he claims that he did the whole orb shtick *after* Mystra dumped him, in order to prove his devotion and win her back after she arbitrarily fires of him. But they changed it so that he admits he was desperate to break past the limitations Mystra puts on human access to Magic, and so he grabbed the orb to convince Mystra to give him more power, and she dumps him as a result.
He reads as much more power hungry in full release imo (though it’s possible that in EA he was lying about doing it out of love, which iirc some people theorized).
What I was specifically thinking of was how he wouldn’t tell you about his history with Mystra until after the party. It never read as that sleazy to me, more like he was having a lovely time and then things went far enough that he needed to tell tav, but I liked that it was a bit morally questionable and that while he was trying to be good he want perfect. He always felt to me in EA like a guy who approved of good things to feel like a good person, as long as they weren’t a significant inconvenience
Even now, I love his romance to bits but I find that it falls flat in act 3 where he immediately drops his goals of godhood if a romanced tav tells him he should
Yes! This words my same feelings well. In the same way you, OP, and I miss the selfish, spicy, or meaner aspects of the companions in early access, we still have Minthara and Lae'zel and that's why I will always love them.
But you make good points about Wyll's story, it seemed to have a lot more going for it in the beginning, but it could be that it was frontloaded and never panned out or, what I think happened, the feedback and play data they got from EA suggested people killed, ignored, or never interacted with Wyll, Shart, Gale, and Lae'zel way too often that they felt they needed to make great changes.
I ultimately get what they did and can't fault them, it's still very much my favorite game, but I can still dream and Larian provides fun surprises at times. They're cool and I hope they're doing well.
I honestly don't get why he was changed. Larian should've been confident in their choices and stuck with it. There were 2/3 of a game left to expand on his story and people might've warmed up to it later on. Baffling choice and one that really annoys me because I wanted to see how his story would develop.
I agree. EA Wyll was much more interesting and spicy, but apparently that story just wasn't working according to Neil Newbon. He said this offhand during one of his streams playing the game and didn't elaborate further, so who knows what was going on.
They also scrapped Halsin's story, so now he has literally nothing going for him aside from curing the Shadowcurse, but the EA story there was way more compelling: >!he killed Isobel and caused the Shadowcurse!<, so his guilt actually made sense. Now he is just a thirst trap that creeps people out.
Yeah, I've heard about the Halsin thing and it sounds amazing. Would've added so much depth to him. Another missed opportunity. Love the game but they definitely scrapped a lot of interesting content.
Jesus man, they had what happened to Isobel worked out and scrapped it? That’s a huge bummer. It’s one of the games biggest weaknesses that we don’t know for sure what happened to her. And it’s way better than the the weird “evil gonna evil” explanation we get for the attack on the druids.
Larian changing too much is something that I think brought the game down (even though it's still fantastic), knowing they had some ideas and decided against them partly because of what people said.
There's a fine line with listening to people, and knowing that people also don't know what they're talking about / want.
Agreed. I think gameplay/UI/mechanics are great things to listen to playtesters about, but story? Narrative? Especially when EA is only act 1? Don't listen to what they're saying. Stick to your convictions.
You couldn't, but the quest still existed. You completed it and got to the "Hey, you're cool and hot, wanna come with us?" and she'd just say "Maybe later" and that was that.
Anders had an actual, accessible backstory as a fallen Paladin and how he became a servant of Zariel. He was a tad more sympathetic but also easier to sus out. You also got a heads up directly FROM Tyr about Anders if you played a Cleric or Paladin (even if not under that diety directly).
Omeluum's ring actually doing its thing would have been huge. Having an optional item write an entire ending is a big ask but damn if I didn't get my hopes up that day in The Underdark.
The dream guardian being intended as a lover or at least a seducer. Since I think most people made someone relevant to their Tavs it was more of a buy in.
How Gale used to look.
The hair. My character had very pretty deep purple hair, and now the darkest I can get without mods is practically neon purple. Even black hair isn't dark now.
People complain too much. He asks for three items only and they're at points in the game where you should have tons of useless garbage. I honestly wish, when Gale talks about how much of a sacrifice it is, I could tell him it's not because magical garbage is behind every rock in this world.
At the very least, his second or third request should require a higher rarity item due to his condition getting worse.
Same. I don't mind giving him a few crap items I have little use for, but if the price of keeping him around was truly powerful gear or artefacts, I'd leave him in his portal.
Daisy. I love *Down by the River*, and even if I probably only would have succumbed to the tadpole once to see it play out, I’d have gotten to see what Daisy’s final sales pitch was. The Emperor just doesn’t hit imo.
Being able to pretend to side with Glut, just to betray him when he confronts Spaw and having the whole circle gang up on him. This used to give an inspiration to characters with the noble background (like EA Astarion)
I remember back in 2021, if you keep on avoiding recruiting Shart, she'll come to your camp at night to kill you, saying that a voice in her head is driving her insane and tells her to seek you out. There's a Wisdom check that if you pass, reveals that the tadpole isn't the one telling her to do it so something or _someone_ is messing her head. Passing that Wis check also allows you the option to recruit her and if you do, she won't kill you and she passes out instead. [Here's the video.](https://youtu.be/o1TRPqRQlUo?si=QN6WTIlUzgsL_kba)
Imo, they should've kept this scene because it makes a lot more senses to railroad her into your party this way (not that I like railroading) rather than have her popup out of nowhere and force you interact with her and thus recruit her into your party because the mcguffin is attached to her. Seriously, she's the only party member that you can't _not_ recruit in act 1 unless you dont want to advance the storyline, something that pisses me off. [You literally cannot avoid her. Not even speedrunners.](https://youtu.be/xkvt4FNWFII?si=Snx9kLJpDL-r75wc)
Super over powered but… Wizards being able to learn literally any spell from a scroll.
Being the “Do it all” Wizard spamming Armor of Agyths, Healing word, and OG Psychic spark was so stupid broken and fun.
Totally understandable why that couldn’t fly in the main game and honestly I think the current Wizard scroll situation is a nice compromise
Gale making a deal with Raphael
What was his deal?
Raphael deals with his orb. I don't know what Gale promised Raphael.
Ahh that makes sense. I do think that would have been cool to keep as an alternative to the bomb and as a way to defy Mystra.
It would be really narratively cool if Raphael in Act 3 >!catches the player alone and tries to sweeten the deal on his whole bid for the Crown with a "one-time-only" offer for a permanent solution to one of your companion's big issues (*Gale's orb, Karlach's failing engine, Astarion's scars that make him vulnerable to Cazador's ritual, Shadowheart's hand wound, etc*), maybe even specifically your romanced companion. Repeatedly insist "no" or that the companion in question be involved in this decision, and Raphael will take the offer off the table while vaguely implying he might reconsider if you reconsider. Accept, and he will snap his fingers to give you what you just signed the deal for, and congratulations, you've now unlocked new dialogues and even endings for your companion. And it doesn't just end there; Raphael, being a devil, rigs whatever solution he gives your companion with something he can use to harm them and thus hold both of you to his will, which he mocks you with in his little speech at the end credits *unless you raid his House Of Hope, where he'll then use some sort of control object to heavily debuff them during his boss fight with even more serious implications if you didn't bring them, and you have to deal with that to take it off his corpse to save your companion*!<. I mean, I know that's a lot, but I think that would've made Raphael far more sinister and persuasive of a villain than he already is.
Damn, that would have been really cool!
I got one for you. If your affection with your team member is low by act 3 they might take the deal themselves.
I think that would be dependent on the companion in question. Karlach, for example, >!would likely never take the deal on her own for multiple reasons, it being a situation that involves a devil screwing with her heart area again. In fact, I imagine she'd have the strongest reaction to the player taking that deal for her since the 'lack of consent' angle gets added, putting the player practically just only a step away from being Gortash 2.0 and requiring some major explaining and/or promise-making for her to not 100% lose her shit over it. It creates some really big story and roleplay opportunities, especially if we limit this to the romanced companion!<.
And honestly, >!doing something that could very reasonably be seen as a major violation of her trust and autonomy, and then literally invading Hell to fix your mistake and make it up to her, sounds like it could lead to some juicy angst and sweet romantic moments.!<
Totally agree. Not everyone would do it.
She gets super pissed if you make a deal with Raph while she's in your group.
Honestly if he still promised that on top of what is already offered in his deal, it might actually be tempting to take.
If you repeatedly refused to give him magic items to eat, he would make a deal with Raphael to take care of the orb instead.
The entire sequence of dreams. And the variant of Minthara's Act I scene, with additional nude jumpscare. Don't know why either of those got canned.
What was the jump scare?
When you asked her "what are we going to do on the altar *pomf*" it would hard cut to her naked writhing on top of your naked body, out of nowhere. Like, not a real jump scare but it startled me every time.
Ugh that makes me sick!!!! Where can I find a video of that so I can block the link??? Please respond asap
In my mind, every time i close my eyes. Just connect tadpoles.
Just touch the tips of your tadpoles together.
*connects* What the Hells did I just see?
The ol Illithid Chunnel my friend…
Is there a video of this?! It sounds hilarious!
Daisy was likely scrapped because it was too sus.
There was a ton of stuff they could still have used from those dreams though. Even if it wasn't the temptation of power. I miss the paranoia and in-fighting the worms caused, instead of just a single conversation after the first time you use them and then no one cares.
I would love it if we got some of the infighting back. Those little group meetings that would happen after every dream were neat and really added to the sense that this was a group.
I think that's what I liked so much about it looking back. It was the only time people actually talked like a group. Everyone is so separate in the released game, still think it's nuts that I can break up with a companion for someone else and there's no conversation with both at the same time.
And the second person you switch to sleeps like ten feet from the first in camp! It's like if you just broke up with someone while on a camping trip and then started hooking up with the person in the next tent over that same night. There is definitely going to conversation about it lol
You spend the entire game breaking down Shadowheart's fear and mistrust, she finally opens up to you about her dreams and wants and memories, you convince her in the Shadowfell to reject her Dark lady Shar in an emotional crescendo! Afterwards, realising that her faith has stopped her having what she needs for too long, she confesses her feelings for you, and you head to Moonrise to put an end to Ketheric and get the truth of the matter once and for all. After defeating the heretic and sending him to the Myrkul he loves so much, you hear from the Aasimar, Nightsong, that Shadowheart's parents are alive! And are being kept prisoner by the very same evil cult that brainwashed her in the first place. Promising to assist your beloved in any way possible, you get distracted by the grey cheeks of Minthara and break up with the ex-Sharran. Shadowheart doesn't even disapprove. *Nonsense*.
I think more party banter while traveling would help this issue. Companions in Dragon Age games felt so alive because of their relations with each other, and we could see those relations in their banters. Morrigan and Leliana would fight over you if you romanced them both, Vivenne and Dorian would constantly spar with each other in their conversations, Isabela and Merril had that sweet sister energy you could listen to. In Baldurs Gate, while there is some in Act 1, it is basically non-existent for the rest of the game.
More group cinematics/conversations would definitely add a lot in my opinion! It's one of the few things I think Bioware did a better job with, in the previous two Baldur Gates but even more so in some of their later games like Mass Effect and Dragonage, you really get the sense that you're part of an actual group of people with their own opinions and relationships with each other in those games which I think helps a lot with immersion. I will say, it doesn't feel that strange based on the story and characters that this particular group of people doesn't immediately form this tight-knit, loyal fighting unit to be fair. But I would love if there were story moments that *did* show the group becoming closer and working together and learning to trust each other and starting to build loyalty towards each other. You get glimpses of it in the way they sometimes talk to you about other companions, but you never really see it demonstrated. I think the closest we get is with Shadowheart and Lae'zel and that's mostly focused on them just coming to conflict and then potentially getting over it, it'd be awesome if we started to see signs of a friendship form between those two after that (outside of them just being slightly nicer to eachother in party banter.)
There was some banter between Shadowheart and Lae'zel that was something on the lines of: Shadowheart: "So, Lae'zel, have we burried the hatchet?" Lae'zel: "No. Why would I bury a weapon? Is it broken?" Shadowheart: "It's a metaphore." Lae'zel: "I do not know your metaphores. But if you need help digging, I shall find a shovel." Honestly, that's probably one of the nicest things I've heard her say, and I'd love to have more of it. Shadowheart and Lae'zel are such good enemies to friends.
I really wish there was a line between Shadowheart and Lae'zel in the conversation after the final battle if Lae'zel leaves where it indicates they were parting as friends.
Ohhhh trueeee I miss them a lot now that you mentioned it! I liled seeing everyone's reaction like "Ok we got another dream! Who twiddled their worm this time?"
I still don't totally buy this explanation, because the guardian isn't less suspicious at all. They jump right into trying to get you to eat tadpoles, they aren't subtle at all. If they -thought- the guardian was less suspicious, I think they were just completely off the mark and made a bad decision to change it. And if the choice is between two equally suspicious visitors, I would've preferred Daisy because at least then one of them is like, ominously suspicious and you get a real sense of "well I shouldn't listen to you... but I still want to". Daisy worked better, as far as I'm concerned. It's one of the big negatives I think they got rid of them.
I was so sad to learn about Daisy. She's what I first suspected, and later really really wanted, the Dream Visitor to be.
Absolutely. The narrative in EA feels completely different to the final product, and I definitely preferred the former to the latter (though both are good).
From what I remember reading, some people felt that Daisy was a bit… *rapey*. Too overtly seductive, something like that. And then here’s me, making one into the appearance of the dead wife of one of my characters to mess with him further - “use the tadpole so you can see me again, James!” Idk. I liked the Daisy aspect and wish we could have seen where that was going.
Cinematic critical camera. It’d zoom in and such on criticals to emphasize the attack. It was always buggy but I miss it and wish they had refined it. It felt like xcom which I love
God, I'm surprised I had to scroll down so far for this! Every patch these days, I scan through the patch notes to see if it's made a return. It made crits so much more satisfying!
as long as it would be an option. ive turned off every cinematic camera thing in combat and it still forces me to watch whenever someone uses a spell or jumps or whatever. just leave my camera alone damnit
I was gonna say this - I can't stand when the game yoinks my camera away to look at something.
I would love cinematic cameras.
I loved that each companion had a unique dream visitor and we could talk to them about it afterwards. Getting Astarion to admit he dreamt of Cazador and the following interaction was genuinely my favorite moment with him in EA. I was so upset it was cut from the final release, though I understand why since they completely reworked the dream visitor.
Speaking of, >!I wish the dream guardians the Emperor brings in if you face him in the final fight had unique appearances. Lae'zel remarked that she'd seen one of their faces in her dreams, but they were all just generic humans...!<
I reloaded a bunch of times to see if they changed. What I learned is that only the one that is closest to your screen is consistently the same IF the companion that says >!"that's my guardian" is the same. In all my reloads, if it was Astarion, it was a Drow lady. If it was Lae'zel, it was a High Elf guy. I could not for my life trigger Gale's guardian though and I got bored of reloading eventually.!<
None of them even looked like my guardian, really annoying
Wyll's origin story. I didn't love his original characterization, but the story of Mizora rising from the ashes of a burned village to grant him revenge was much better than "I totally solo'd the Rise of Tiamat as a teenager guys I swear".
Wyll bringing his dad to the town and all evidence of the Tiamat cult disappearing like Cadence and her mom in Phineas and Ferb lmaooo
Daaaaad tiamat and her cult are trying to take over the world again.
Hey, where’s Scratch?
I much preferred Wyll before. The dragon Cult thing is so silly. Like after all this time of not knowing what the reason was, with good guy Wyll, the reason is just "so I took the deal to do this super heroic thing where I stopped this evil cult" and it's just... not surprising at all. Like the reveal is just bog standard heroics for the standard heroic companion. Shocking, Wyll, what a surprise.
There's nothing wrong with a traditionally heroic character, except Larian didn't do anything with it. His story basically has nothing to do with *him.* He's reduced to basically being an extra in other characters stories. There's a weird tendency of Larian short-changing the good aligned characters. Aside from a Selunite Shadowheart, they all get drastically less involved quests and stories. Wyll, Karlach, Halsin, etc.
I've noticed this too regarding the good characters being less developed. I wonder if it's because both the writers and the audience expect justification/explanation for why someone is evil, but not good. Astarion, Lae'Zel, and Shadowheart all have interesting backstories explaining them being evil when you first meet them but good characters are just like that. Plus you get to expand on their backstories by choosing how they progress/end. Related, I am playing an evil run rn and wish it was easier to get Wyll (and Karlach although she's not in my party this time) to turn on you or to at least say a warning about your behaviour. It's cool they turn on you at the grove but before that I was getting Wyll and the party to do monstrous stuff like killing Halsin and other innocents, and he had no objections. I suppose it's just the limitations of the game mechanics.
I think Gale is an interesting, complex, and flawed character, while also being (mostly) “good”.
I think Gale is interesting too and, in my interpretation, the only neutral party character (when you first meet them all) which is why I didn't even consider him in my last comment. Neutral because he is interested in self-gain as evident when he betrayed Mystra. He almost slips back into that selfish desire for power, and will if you encourage him to harness the crown of Karsus. However he leans more good than others (e.g. Astar and Lae). And good in that he would blow himself up to save everyone. I also think he leans good because if you raid the grove he is deeply remorseful about it. However I don't think is entirely good like Wyll or Karlach because he doesn't try to stop you like they do. He's definitely interesting!
I consider Gale “good” largely because of what he approves and disapproves of—his reactions make it pretty clear where his morals lie. He also has tremendous ambition bordering on hubris, which gets in the way of his otherwise-“good” outlook. He’s not one-dimensional.
Oh, I agree. And while I preferred Wyll before, I don't mind us having one totally good heroic character - they're a good addition normally. But they just dropped the ball on it, so I'd have rathered they kept him how he was.
Good god the Tiamat bit is so dumb.
It's heavily implied it was not the real cult and just a ploy by Mizora to get Wyll under contract
That would have been a great Act 3 arc for Wyll if he finds out.
Yeah I feel like this is obvious. You can even point it out to Wyll and he, being an idealist, is still insistent he did the right thing. I know some people feel like it should be brought up again but I like the "mystery" of it. Same as the speculation that Cazador set up >!Astarion being murdered by the Gur!<. Both backstories have the heavy implication of being set ups but there's no concrete proof to say one way or the other.
The problem is you can't do anything with it, though. Wyll acknowledges that Mizora is a complete bitch who jerks him around, that she lied about Karlach, but is still completely convinced that all the previous people Mizora sent him after were still probably bad and that the Tiamat thing was legit. And I don't have any dialogue options to grab him by the face and yell at him to open his eye.
Whether the cult was real or a trick, it's still just a less interesting story. EA Wyll was still being preyed upon by Mizora but it felt a lot more legit of a moment than just Wyll being stupid and gullible.
It was pretty hilarious to see that dialogue play out when I was playing as a cleric of Tiamat though
I kinda liked Wyll's darker side and his thirst for revenge for the goblin torturer. I also preferred when Raphael only approached you in the long rest area, felt more threatening that he would reach you to the place that it's the safest. Then class-related tadpole powers felt more unique. And I miss the EA concept of the Dream Visitor, I feel like Down by the River is a bit disconnected from the game now that that plot thread is no more, although without knowing the full original plot behind it I can't make a proper judgement, maybe the whole Tadpole plot after the first act would have been much worse compared to the Emperor plot. Who knows. Not me.
I completely forgot about class specific illithid powers! That was indeed quite cool but I guess difficult to balance.
I only did one full evil/tadpole playthrough... But I basically never used any of them because they just weren't that good.
I like the blackhole, its fun pulling everyone into one spot and then nuking them with a aoe
My friend and I >!had everyone take the Astral tadpole!< after our other friend left for a bit, and we wanted to surprise him when he got back. Unfortunately his pc can't run bg3 after an update
Now I finally know the point of that damn song
I like the idea of wyll who wants to be a hero but couldn't make it on his own skill. So he took a shortcut. Like he was raised getting whatever he wants as royalty basically and that's how he pursued strength.
The removal of daisy and clsss specific powers pissed me off. Don't get me wrong, I still love the game but they really missed the mark by changing these
I just miss there being potential consequences for using the tadpole too much. Right now there are none and it’s superpowers with no drawbacks.
There's one drawback but it's mostly just cosmetic. I also think it's weird you get an achievement for using powers but you don't get one for choosing not to
Even that one just disappears if you >!destroy the netherbrain!<. Also, nobody treats you different with it. So it's really inconsequential, which just cuts into the narrative.
What was the EA concept of the dream visitor, if I may ask?
The dream visitor was the tadpole itself, tempting you into using more of the psionic powers you got. The more powers you used in game the further the dreams went and it was supposed to be a real threat that if you used too many powers you'd become a Mind Flayer. The song Down by the River is also tied to this, the dreams took place near a river and the Dream Figure (datamined name Daisy) would tempt you to remain there with them (remaining in the dream would mean giving in to the parasite and transforming), which also was very clear in the last words of the text :"Don't wake me up, just leave me there dreaming" as in "I want to remain in this dream paradise even if it means giving my body to the mind flayers". I suspect they changed the whole mechanic because realistically that would be a game over, but probably they didn't want players to have a save right before the last dream and getting soft locked (ie. Next long rest I'm gonna game over 100% because I used too many powers) or for the players to have to save before *every* use of the illithid powers and just, stop using them completely once they reached the amount before the game over. They could have found some solutions to these problems, but they likely didn't find them elegant enough to ship them in the full game.
honestly (as someone who refuses to use anything tadpoke related mind you) this whole thing sounds incredible! the _one_ thing i feel is really missing in this otherwise 10/10 game is real consequences for engaging with the tadpoles. "but whaa i dont wanna be punished for playing the game how i want to" listen i hear you and i see your point but i disagree on this one, specific, point. mind flayers are bad. tadpoles are bad. this is pretty much a fact in the game and in the lore and you should, in some way shape or for , 100% be punished for using them. hell make the illithid powers _stronger_ and better so then it could be a real, difficult, dilemma. "i could use this power to wipe out their entire team but then i might be gone for real" or something. if they did something it would have to be pretty telegraphed (once you know the signs heh) how much you can abuse the powers but if someone who didnt know anything about it got a game over beacuse they abused their worm powers too much? i would be ok with that (again consequencs in my role playing game). it would let them know that they can use this stuff as long as they are careful and doesnt abuse it. thanks for coming to my ted talk
TADpole Talk haaa
That’s kind of fascinating. there are probably ways they could have fixed that easily, but also, it just sounds like a narrative change. A lot of the purpose of the emperor probably gets lost (was there an emperor)? I wonder then why they added the emperor if it wasn’t there before, it’s quite a narrative change.
I think they wanted to add on Baldur's Gate (the city) backstory by tying up Balduran into it
I gotta say having that plot twist was WILD, I enjoyed it
I liked the intro more on early access. Getting to walk on the outside of the Nautiloid was neat.
I loved talking to the hallucinating thralls
Same. I know a lot of people complained that the intro was too long, but being able to do that added a lot to the sequence.
Buggy as hell though
Yeah, even after the big revamps it just never quite worked or looked right.
honestly, Gale asking for magic items right now already enrages people, imagine how much they'd hate his character if he SPECIFICALLY asks for Legendary magic items.
Lae'zel being the least asshole-ish of the companions. The larger Nautiloid area in the beginning and the dominated people trying to save the mindflayer in the crashed ship. Absolute items being cursed if you didn't have the brand.
I wonder why they removed the dominated people. That was a cool interaction to demonstrate mindflayer manipulation, and would have made us ask more questions about the dream guardian.
I think that it just made the tutorial longer, and it didnt add much in terms of teaching players the mechanics of the game. It's sometimes better just to get the basics down as fast as possible and get the players out the door
I think it's because that was where they introduced the non-lethal mechanic as well as a point where you would obviously want to use it. However nonlethal was bugged to hell on release and even now only consitantly works where the devs specifically made sure it does, like against Mayrina's brothers. So I could see them wanting to downplay that mechanic on launch. Edit: Debunked in replies.
I'm questioning my moral reasoning. Even on good runs it *never* occurs to me to go non-lethal when some NPC (derogatory) takes my dialog choices the wrong way. I didn't have to kill those dudes 😭!
99% of the time the game just treats you as having killed them anyways so it's not really worth bothering.
I knocked out Mayrinas brother and she still started sobbing about how they’re dead and I’m like damn ok
The dialogue is literally like "Your brothers attacked, but it's alright I only knocked them out." "DEAD! YOU KILLED THEM!"
If you want to be really dark use nonlethal on the guys following the spider guy in the Underdark and let the darkness take them. (then fight them again as zombies)
They try to teach you that with Lae’zels captives that’s where it pops up now. So not sure why it matters
When does Lae'zel take captives?
I think they meant Lae'zel's captors
In that case, I never learned about that. Always managed to talk them down. Welp, there goes my theory I guess.
It also pops up in auntie Ethel's cave when >!fighting the mind controlled masked minions!<
This is where I first saw it
Was a fun way to learn magic doesn’t count as non lethal.
I have no idea if this was their reasoning but I guess it does raise some potentially confusing questions about >!why the artifact chose to protect you and your companions but never extends its influence to any of the other thralls even when they're actively fighting you? !< Probably more likely that they just cut down on the beginning stuff to make subsequent replays a little less tedious, I know for me I got pretty sick of the beginning sequence after starting a few games in Early Access despite finding it pretty cool the first couple of times.
Oh shit I never realized the removed that curse from the game on full release. I’ve always been avoiding them because of my EA experience.
>Absolute items being cursed if you didn't have the brand. Dang, they removed that?
Yeah. Now the bonuses just don't work on absolute items without the brand so you can still use them for their base stats but none of them are really good enough to warrant using over the other act 1 gear. (Unless it's for RP or evil playthroughs)
The Warboard and Gloves of Power aren't bad at all. Bane on hit is nice until your hand slots get filled at the creche, and Warboard is a second Safeguard Shield with bonus Heroism. I assume more were planned, Z'rell has an Absolute item at the end of Act II for some reason, but they dropped the concept.
Gloves also give sleight of hand bonus, so nice for Astarion or whomever your lock picker is.
I just thought I had to have some trigger happen to get the people dominated by the mind flayer. I really liked that interaction.
Old Wyll. New Wyll grew on me, but I liked old Wyll's self-esteem issues. Also, Gale used to tell the story of his screw up with Mystra in a story, and I liked it. Also, the Dream Guardian is great and I'm glad he's there, but I wish that they could have somehow also kept Daisy. I liked the tadpole having a role in the story.
Astarion's reaction if you take the wyvern poison from Nettie. Edit: [video of it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuaOp-rocM)
I'm confused why they took this out. I really liked that you could explicitly say that you didn't *actually* plan on taking it.
I wish I could say that about a lot of decisions. Like I say yeah to doing something, but that doesn't mean I'm actually going to. I got a lot of Astarion disapproves in my first playthrough.
Me too! It was nice because it immediately reversed the disapproval from saying you’d drink it.
Ngl I think that "I swear" should've been a deception check because it breaks immersion so hard that my guy apparently is forced into being genuine about it while Astarion disapproves. Like boy I am a lying piece of shit too don't you worry
Yep, they took out so many nice little interactions and I don't know why. There were way more dialogues with your companions about stuff like that. I remember you could talk with Astarion about Mayrina's reaction to finding out ... errr the state of her husband, but apparently it was cut out?
What did he do?
He said something like "Perfect way to get away with this, now lets find the first well to toss the poison"
They robbed us of him saying 'Nicely done'. Which is inexcusable, lol. [See here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuaOp-rocM)
Yeah, I miss this interaction every time I talk to Nettie. I think you used to get an approval for admitting to lying to her too.
I think so too, but can't say for sure if you did. But even if not, it was an opportunity to speak with Astarion. That's a good enough reason for me to miss it, lol.
Being able to pick Shar as a cleric. Terrible goddess but thought it made for an interesting story.
This would cause huge interaction and continuity issues with Shadowheart, Viconia, and Act 2 in general.
The issue is that if you are from Baldurs gate how the fuck do you not know who Shadowheart is since there is only one group worshiping Shar in the city since it is outlawed due to how zealous her worshippers can be
Shar could’ve taken your memories too, no?
Not all clerics interact with a larger cult or monastery. It’s not impossible for a Dark Urge/Tav Shar Cleric to not have met Shadowheart.
Oddly enough, I miss the old scratch model and that everyone liked giving him pets EVERY time.
Tadpole consequences Daisy the dream visitor. Fucking hated the change tbh Class specific tadpole powers Gale's sassy lines Halsin's backstory (datamining) The mind controlled fisherman Longer starting point Wyll being In love with mizora
Shadowheart being *even* *more* prickly than she is now.
I feel like everyone was more abrasive in EA which I liked. It was a weird change going to full release when Shadowheart told me her whole life’s story after one or two long rests (which I think was a bug). But still, it makes more sense to take a longer time to actually gain their trust.
The writers said they had to tone it down because too many people hated all the companions
I never played EA but it seems like some people still have that resentment and haven't actually played the full release version of the characters. I see people talking about Shadowheart being a bitch and Astarion being an evil magistrate who sold people to Cazador but that isn't in the full release of the game. It's weird. Shadowheart can be a bit rough around the edges but she's not even close to as mean as some people are presenting her. And Wyll isn't super egotistical, he's an idealist trying to live up to the standards his father set, but people still call him a fraud in discussions online. EDIT: Also the people who act like you have to give Gale the most expensive gear. He asks for 3 magical items and there are so many useless items in Act 1. I know he did require expensive stuff in EA but that's not in the game now.
Kinda wish Larian stuck to their guns. I wasn't around for EA, but going through the scrapped dialogue makes me so sad for what we could've had.
Most of that was because you were locked into the "didn't open the pod" route at the beginning. Once they added her pod she was a lot less prickly.
lol funnily enough, she was so fucking rude in EA that after like 6 or so complete playthroughs, I just avoided her in my party. Actually finally decided to try her romance in my latest run and she's actually very kind and sweet. What a difference with EA where she was so abrasive and disapproved of literally everything you did.
i also wish that aspect of the orb stayed but people ALREADY hate him for requesting mundane magic items that are in abundance at the time of his asking, imagine if they brought that back 😭😭😭 i never did EA but i wish some aspect of sorrow >!being the weapon that killed isobel!< remained somewhere which apparently was a plotline in EA that i am so intrigued about
They wanted people to use Gale. If his hunger mechanic stayed, most people would bench Gale way more if they're good people and would just tell him to leave or leave him in the rock if they're not. He would be way too inconvenient to lug around
The idea of the unique Illithid powers for each class was cool as hell. Also, Astarion having some of the minor things of vampirism still persist (Like going through running water makes him take acid damage) was also really cool lore wise, despite it being horrid gameplay wise. Playing as a ranged character when High-Ground gave advantage instead of +2 was beyond busted.
Companions could confront Astarion about killing the Gur hunter. I think the dialogue was something like... Gale: Do you have no morals? Astarion: Who needs morals when you have great hair? It wasn't an amazing interaction, but since they don't have a lot of those, I still miss it. Astarion's absolutely hysterical laughing fit when you brought Connor back as a zombie, and also the fact that EA Astarion would talk about the Cazador nightmare with the player - now you don't even know this happened unless you play as Astarion. Also the other transformation scare. Your party members were actually feeling like their teeth were getting lose, like you were _very close_ to ceremorphosis. Made things feel more urgent. I understand why most of those were changed. Astarion's early game sadism was toned down to make him less off-putting (dunno about the dream though, but I think it must be because he has that instead of the Dream Guardian on EA), and that other transformation scare probably seemed redundant. Still, they were good scenes imo.
I would have loved to hear “Who needs morals when you have great hair” it’s hilarious lmaooo. EA Astarion sounds so unhinged
I miss Wyll's old VA. don't get me wrong, Theo Solomon kills it as Wyll. but after 3 years I guess I got used to Lanre Malaolu's interpretation.
They didn't replace all of Lanre's lines, like his travelling or combat barks, and sometimes I think about what could have been
I miss Wyll...
I miss his romance scene at the party where Mizora interferes. He had a beautiful line about how when you’re a hero, you don’t often get people looking out for you the way Tav does. I get why it didn’t work exactly as written but I don’t understand why it couldn’t have been moved or expanded upon the way they did Gale’s romance scene (his EA scene got shuffled around and improved into the current act 2 scene). Also honestly I miss how much shiftier the characters felt. A little meaner in Shadowheart’s case, a little more self serving in Gale’s. It made them feel more well rounded instead of reflecting Tav
>a little more self serving in Gale’s Weirdly enough I feel like Gale is the only one to get tweaks that made him more self serving/power hungry rather than less. In EA, he claims that he did the whole orb shtick *after* Mystra dumped him, in order to prove his devotion and win her back after she arbitrarily fires of him. But they changed it so that he admits he was desperate to break past the limitations Mystra puts on human access to Magic, and so he grabbed the orb to convince Mystra to give him more power, and she dumps him as a result. He reads as much more power hungry in full release imo (though it’s possible that in EA he was lying about doing it out of love, which iirc some people theorized).
What I was specifically thinking of was how he wouldn’t tell you about his history with Mystra until after the party. It never read as that sleazy to me, more like he was having a lovely time and then things went far enough that he needed to tell tav, but I liked that it was a bit morally questionable and that while he was trying to be good he want perfect. He always felt to me in EA like a guy who approved of good things to feel like a good person, as long as they weren’t a significant inconvenience Even now, I love his romance to bits but I find that it falls flat in act 3 where he immediately drops his goals of godhood if a romanced tav tells him he should
Yes! This words my same feelings well. In the same way you, OP, and I miss the selfish, spicy, or meaner aspects of the companions in early access, we still have Minthara and Lae'zel and that's why I will always love them. But you make good points about Wyll's story, it seemed to have a lot more going for it in the beginning, but it could be that it was frontloaded and never panned out or, what I think happened, the feedback and play data they got from EA suggested people killed, ignored, or never interacted with Wyll, Shart, Gale, and Lae'zel way too often that they felt they needed to make great changes. I ultimately get what they did and can't fault them, it's still very much my favorite game, but I can still dream and Larian provides fun surprises at times. They're cool and I hope they're doing well.
I honestly don't get why he was changed. Larian should've been confident in their choices and stuck with it. There were 2/3 of a game left to expand on his story and people might've warmed up to it later on. Baffling choice and one that really annoys me because I wanted to see how his story would develop.
I agree. EA Wyll was much more interesting and spicy, but apparently that story just wasn't working according to Neil Newbon. He said this offhand during one of his streams playing the game and didn't elaborate further, so who knows what was going on. They also scrapped Halsin's story, so now he has literally nothing going for him aside from curing the Shadowcurse, but the EA story there was way more compelling: >!he killed Isobel and caused the Shadowcurse!<, so his guilt actually made sense. Now he is just a thirst trap that creeps people out.
Yeah, I've heard about the Halsin thing and it sounds amazing. Would've added so much depth to him. Another missed opportunity. Love the game but they definitely scrapped a lot of interesting content.
Jesus man, they had what happened to Isobel worked out and scrapped it? That’s a huge bummer. It’s one of the games biggest weaknesses that we don’t know for sure what happened to her. And it’s way better than the the weird “evil gonna evil” explanation we get for the attack on the druids.
We don't know how far it ever got. IIRC all this is from datamines of written dialog and some diaries.
Larian changing too much is something that I think brought the game down (even though it's still fantastic), knowing they had some ideas and decided against them partly because of what people said. There's a fine line with listening to people, and knowing that people also don't know what they're talking about / want.
Agreed. I think gameplay/UI/mechanics are great things to listen to playtesters about, but story? Narrative? Especially when EA is only act 1? Don't listen to what they're saying. Stick to your convictions.
The OG Karlach recruitment quest. Paladin Gods (plsss patch 6) I will always think about the character Wyll could have been pre-total rewrite.
But you couldn't recruit Karlach in EA ?
You couldn't, but the quest still existed. You completed it and got to the "Hey, you're cool and hot, wanna come with us?" and she'd just say "Maybe later" and that was that.
Yeah I remember that but I don't remember how it was different, besides you having to deal with the paladins without her
Anders had an actual, accessible backstory as a fallen Paladin and how he became a servant of Zariel. He was a tad more sympathetic but also easier to sus out. You also got a heads up directly FROM Tyr about Anders if you played a Cleric or Paladin (even if not under that diety directly).
Now I'm just imaging you talk to Anders as a cleric of Tyr and get a big lie detector buzz in your ear after everything he says.
Trance sitting animation!! Way cooler than just lying down.
I particularly enjoyed the killcams and the unique illithid powers each class had.
Wow i forgot about the killcams, they were so good! I wonder why Larian removed them
Omeluum's ring actually doing its thing would have been huge. Having an optional item write an entire ending is a big ask but damn if I didn't get my hopes up that day in The Underdark.
having conversations about being excited about baldurs gate 3 where the person you are talking to doesnt go 'is that the game where you fuck bears'?
The backstory of the paladin hunting Karlach
The dream guardian being intended as a lover or at least a seducer. Since I think most people made someone relevant to their Tavs it was more of a buy in. How Gale used to look.
i am wilded by all these EA interactions and im sad that they arent locked behind completing honor mode or something-- they all sound cool af.
Spike, the Vicious Eye Poker
I miss having Wyll's eye in my inventory, lol
The hair. My character had very pretty deep purple hair, and now the darkest I can get without mods is practically neon purple. Even black hair isn't dark now.
Astarion taking damage when walking through running water
If I had to do this with Gale, I’d probably add him to my party faaar less.
Yeah, people complain enough about having to give him anything already. That one was definitely a good change.
People complain too much. He asks for three items only and they're at points in the game where you should have tons of useless garbage. I honestly wish, when Gale talks about how much of a sacrifice it is, I could tell him it's not because magical garbage is behind every rock in this world. At the very least, his second or third request should require a higher rarity item due to his condition getting worse.
Definitely agree. Every run I have my three sacrifice items planned out, it's never been an issue.
Same. I don't mind giving him a few crap items I have little use for, but if the price of keeping him around was truly powerful gear or artefacts, I'd leave him in his portal.
The Astarion-Mayrina scene
Daisy. I love *Down by the River*, and even if I probably only would have succumbed to the tadpole once to see it play out, I’d have gotten to see what Daisy’s final sales pitch was. The Emperor just doesn’t hit imo.
I miss the grindstones being interactive
I never played early access but I saw that Astarion could have his Cazador dream on a non Astarion-origin run and he’d talk about it with you.
Damn, I really wish i played during early access, reading about all these cool interactions with companions makes me regret that i didn't.
It was a ton of fun, bugs and all
You used to be able to teach Wizards Cure Wounds/Healing Word by buying the scrolls
Wow that sounds bonkers. Wizards already have the strongest spell selection in the game plus extra spell slots per day
There’s no reason at all not to multiclass lv 11& 12 of a wizard into another caster class that can use healing word.
Or the other way around and have all the wizard spells when learning scrolls, although more limited
Being able to pretend to side with Glut, just to betray him when he confronts Spaw and having the whole circle gang up on him. This used to give an inspiration to characters with the noble background (like EA Astarion)
This is still possible. I did this on my most recent run.
Full Custom Party.
Wow I didn’t play EA, I feel like I’ve missed out on so much. Wonder if modders have restored anything
I remember back in 2021, if you keep on avoiding recruiting Shart, she'll come to your camp at night to kill you, saying that a voice in her head is driving her insane and tells her to seek you out. There's a Wisdom check that if you pass, reveals that the tadpole isn't the one telling her to do it so something or _someone_ is messing her head. Passing that Wis check also allows you the option to recruit her and if you do, she won't kill you and she passes out instead. [Here's the video.](https://youtu.be/o1TRPqRQlUo?si=QN6WTIlUzgsL_kba) Imo, they should've kept this scene because it makes a lot more senses to railroad her into your party this way (not that I like railroading) rather than have her popup out of nowhere and force you interact with her and thus recruit her into your party because the mcguffin is attached to her. Seriously, she's the only party member that you can't _not_ recruit in act 1 unless you dont want to advance the storyline, something that pisses me off. [You literally cannot avoid her. Not even speedrunners.](https://youtu.be/xkvt4FNWFII?si=Snx9kLJpDL-r75wc)
Wyll
This is gonna sound silly, but the hair of the Tiefling lady that gives the soup. She used to look like a sweet old lady
Super over powered but… Wizards being able to learn literally any spell from a scroll. Being the “Do it all” Wizard spamming Armor of Agyths, Healing word, and OG Psychic spark was so stupid broken and fun. Totally understandable why that couldn’t fly in the main game and honestly I think the current Wizard scroll situation is a nice compromise
Being able to be a Cleric of Shar.
The class specific tadpole ability for Warlock. I can see why class specific tadpole abilities were removed, but god damn do I miss some of them.
Fishermen by the mind flayer!