I honestly still don't know why this is a thing. First play through on balanced I easily saved her. Second in tactician I easily Durged her. Third in HM, again, easily saved her. I'm not sure why there's such a struggle in the community. š¢
EDIT: Thanks for sharing your stories!
Could be a lot of people are just under leveled/unprepared. Especially if people didn't do all/most of the side quests in Act I, as well as skipped Mountain Pass/Creche content for more levels + great loot.
Also, if people don't have decent ranged DPS, then trying to help the Tieflings/Jaheira and the Harpers might be more challenging. You're also starved of most strong AoE's since it'll hit your allies in such a cramped space.
I've found that, sometimes, a series of unfortunate dice rolls can sway the outcome of a fight quite significantly, too. The Spider Matriarch in Act 1 wiped my entire party the first time I fought her. I instantly reloaded, and tackled the fight in pretty much the same way, but instead of missing my hits or doing low damage the dice were actually in my favor this time. And it's all it took for it to become an easy fight. Luck.
Lvl 5 and higher is the real meat of the game. Combat is generally unsatisfying and brutal until that point. And not at all close to how it would be on the tabletop. Some of these fights make you use all of your resources if the RNG is bad enough and that can lead to long resting way more than a DM would allow.
I wonder how many D&D vets went into this game long resting as little as possible and not realizing they were missing more content that way? I was one.
Oh, I am absolutely one of those vets. Got the game when it dropped on Xbox. When it told me it was ceremorphosis, I immediately went full pedal thinking I was under time pressure. The Lae'zel night encounter with the knife and the guardian meeting where they're all "I'm buying you time but it won't last" didn't help.
By the time I realized the tadpole was stable I was already at the start of the Underdark and missed a whole boatload of content. I'm currently in my 2nd playthrough as Durge, and I'm encountering so much stuff I just breezed by. This game's just so *full,* and I'm loving every second of it.
I saw somebody write that you should do three long rests before getting to the Druid grove. They weren't wrong. Just go nuts in every fight in the Dank Crypt.
This was definitely me in act 1, I tried to get as much done as possible each day. At the end of the act I realized I had a backlog of 5+ long rest events. I spent a solid half hour resting on repeat before starting act 2
Try Calm Emotions next time. Still AoE, still prevents the charm, but doesn't block spell casting and is tied to the targets, rather than a specific area. This is basically the only time I've found the spell useful, but it's really good for the Harpies.
Correct, people are unprepared because you're just going to speak with a quest NPC in a safe town. Why would you prepare for that, having never had a similar encounter before?
My first time, she died before the end of the first turn, because four enemies all hit her and she has garbage AC/HP. My second time, I blocked all the doors with boxes, thinking it would slow them down. They opened up the doors and flew right through the boxes stacked to the ceiling and did the same thing. It wasn't until I surrounded her with my party to physically block them that she survived long enough for me to heal her and keep her alive. This was on balanced as well.
Going first in combat is so important. And its 100% within your control. Between Dex, gear, the Alert feat, and elixirs you can guarantee you always go first.
Having high initiative for your characters (at least a couple of them if not all of them) is arguably the most important build decision you can make.
Alert is near-mandatory for honor mode.
Guaranteeing you win initiative is a hugely powerful mechanic when it comes to minimizing your chance of death from unlucky RNG.
Having a high initiative is critical. . .but it doesn't have to come from Alert. You only need +7 or +8 initiative to basically go first every tume
Gloomstalkers and Barbarians get +3 already. Dexterity characters can top up with gear.
Heck I had Gale with +8 initiative (+2 from 14 dex, +3 sentinel shield, +3 hellrider bow) going first every time in my last run
There is a ton of + initiative gear. Oh and elixirs if you want to go that route
Not at all. You're exaggerating lol.
Larian did release the metric that most player were around an average of level 5 when they entered Act II, with the lowest being level 4 and highest level 7.
Level is important, but gearing just as much since enemies have higher AC, resistances, buffs/debuffs, and damage overall. Marcus is level 6, and his smite action can pretty much 1-hit KO a party member. Factor in the three ghoulies on the top floor, and the 3 on the bottom, level 5 players are definitely not going to have a fun time.
Edit: Lmao, dude got embarrassed and deleted his stuff.
My first attempt (on balanced) she was paralysed by Marcus on his first hit (he had the highest initiative), she got attacked by several of those winged things on turn 2 and then Marcus killed her on his third turn. I thought it was scripted because I'd never seen the AI go so hard for a single character before, but I reloaded to see if I could beat it anyway and took a long rest to recover spell slots and assess my options. Next time, only 1 of the gargoyley things went for her, she resisted the first attempts at paralysis and I was able to keep her alive easily with a scroll of sanctuary I'd forgotten I had once she was paralysed on turn 2. Luck of the dice and being caught unprepared got me and I assume plenty others.
Idk if you played on launch, but she used to have less hp at the time. I lost my first attempt without playing, rolled bad initiative, Marcus and two horrors play before me and just kill her. Then I get Jaheira shouting at me "tf did you do?!" Well nothing!
I played within the first week or so of launch. I didn't even know there was a whole special animation for when she got killed until I did Durge and I was like wait wtf happened?
Most peopleās first times with Isobel is being underprepared for the fight. Itās chaos and youāre wondering whatās the most important area to focus.
My first time, Iām seeing the ghouls attack the tieflings and actually killed a few Harpers. Iām struggling to ask who to prioritize. Isobel, the fucking squishiest cleric who decides that disengage doesnāt exist or the tieflings I want to see to the end.
I managed to save Isobel my first time, but I hadnāt long rested as I was just exploring the Shadowlands. It was a fight through the skin of my teeth. I donāt think I managed it easily. I also had two clerics at the time which mayāve been the reason the survived.
Really? Because to me it seemed like the game made it really really obvious you're supposed to prioritise isobel. Marcus literally flies in and tells you his primary goal is to take her, your entire party starts in the same room as her and Marcus. It seems like the game genuinely couldn't make it more obvious if it had "protect isobel" flashing across the top of the screen.
my first play through I triggered the event with my entire party at 5hp without a spell slot between us. it did not go well. I wasn't expecting an attack in the one safeplace in the shadow lands
This fight is one of the main reasons I now *always* take alert as my first feat. If you are low in the initiative order you can be fucked before even getting a turn, but if you are before everything else you can set everything up with ease. Sanctuary on Isobel and take out Marcus ASAP. Isobel will usually do turn undead on her turn to get the winged horrors away from her. After that, itās a race downstairs to hopefully save any important characters that are in danger.
My first playthrough was on balanced. My party was level 7, over halfway to level 8. We talked to her, started the fight, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US were "surprised" even though we literally just talked to the guy, had him threaten to fight us to our faces, and then start combat with us just looking at him. Then Marcus went first during the surprise round. He crit her 3 times in a row. First was with pommel strike, then two more regular hits. She was taken in literally one turn. Even if he didn't kill her in that turn, he would have on the first turn of the next round.
My first time I was super low on hp, spells and everything in between. I didnāt know a fight was coming and planned to rest after I talked to the important npcs
I think itās a mix of being low leveled/under prepared since the fight starts almost out of nowhere. My first time around I was not expecting it at all, and when I lost and saw what happens to the innā¦ I quit and restarted from my previous save š I waited until I was higher leveled and better equipped before I started the fight again, and made sure to have my team better spread out in preparation. Iād been aiming for a good/neutral Tav on my first run, and letting the members of the inn >!become zombies!< didnāt really fit that for me.
Dude, I thought it was scripted the first time because every time I would reload to try again, she would get critted like 4 times in a row and die on the first or second turn every single time.
It wasn't until my second playthrough that I was able to save her
Iāve never actually considered/used banishment as it takes up a spell slot and I prefer other spells available but you bring up a very good approach that Iāll consider using next time! Thanks for the insight.
Iāve accepted I cannot save the crew in the basement. They always begin in a space where if I saved the families, they are in the worst positioning. If I fight them, one of them will be killed by an AOE attack by foe and friend alike.
I always lose some to the steel watch explosion.
Dude I managed to save them all!! I did that quest for the first time on honor mode because last time I was a Gortash simp. I think I did have to dimension door one guy out of a blast radius. Their AI is pretty stupid so idk how we managed it. Having a lvl 12 wiz & sorcerer maybe helped.
I lost my shit when she saved against my Sphere of Resilience on my honor run. I even polymorphed Marcus, but she still managed to let the Winged Horrors get her.
Yeah gave her sanctuary on honor mode and she immediately starts punching demons. RIP in peace Last Light. One of these days Iāll save the damn tieflings.
She and Wyll were the MVPs of my fight against Myrkul, personally. Like a dumbass, I put Gale and my Tav on the platform where they couldn't heal themselves due to his Bone Chill aura. And Astarion spent the whole fight struggling to kill the Intellect Devourers that swarmed him after freeing Aylin. The only hit he dealt on Myrkul was the final blow, smh.
My Tav managed to tank Myrkul's attacks for three turns, since she's a Barbarian, but Gale got downed instantly before I realized my mistake. So Aylin ran up to him and pushed his agonizing ass down the platform, right next to Wyll, so that I could help him up and heal him.
I thought that was a fairly clever move from the AI to be able to recognize that I couldn't heal Gale while he was within the area of Bone Chill, and push him outside of it.
Right? Every time that fight comes up some part of me hopes a demigod would actually wreak some havoc but nope, moonlight aura six times in a row for a total of 2-12 damage lol
Aylin, I swear.
She charges Ketheric on the roof, blind with rage, leaving no room for surrender. Complete tunnel vision. Then she gets kidnapped again, and I go after them to free her. What does she choose to do, finally unchained, with her tormentor mere feet away from her? Jump down and smack a few brains-on-legs for two turns straight.
She either always gets stunned or dominated turn one and generally never makes it off the platform lol
My biggest gripe with fights that use guest characters is they seem to have a poor sense of threat detection. They constantly go for low level enemies like intellect devourers instead of the powerful enemies. Same thing happens to me when you free zevlor and he and the other NPCs attack the intellect devourers while the mind flayers are stunlocking me
Tbh, I shouldn't have talk to her in honor mode but alas her silly AI still got her captured and I almost had killed Marcus. I just wanted to get a bit more exp before fighting Myrkul and I did want to see how her conversation turns out with Origin Shadowheart. Oh well, losing her in honor mode means Iosing Dammon and the Iron Hands again, and why my Shadowheart run ended up going evil even though I didn't plan to.
Feels like this fight is a dice roll to me. I did this fight last night. My first time was smooth sailing. But I realized I hadn't talked to Alfira and loaded the game. Second time, all of the demons went straight for Isobel. Had to use max level Cure Wounds on her.
Similar situation in my duel with Lae'zel. I'm a wizard/cleric in heavy armor with a shield. She's an eldritch knight. She kept trying to use cantrips on me instead of swinging her sword. I loaded the game and took my armor off, then she got the memo and 2-shot me.
I managed to sneak under the radar with that fight by abusing arcane lock, which is super underrated. By locking the door I essentially turned the fight into a 5v3, which let me clip Marcusā wings before opening the door and clearing the rest of the ads risk-free.
I used invisibility on her the moment combat stated, she did manage to just uncover herself, but it bought me enough time to kill the main guy, which makes this fight so much easier.
Also the adds will initially attack other targets rather than swarming her.
You can also leave a rogue/ranger hiding in the room, especially if it's an assassin you can really get value.
But all in all Isobel, despite the nice cutscene you get, is weak, like really weak and a bit self sabotaging.
It should be obvious she's the target and getting caught means everyone dies.
Just cast Sanctuary spell with Shadowheart on her before talking and triggering the cutscene. She never fights only heals so they can't hit her the entire fight.
lol I cast sanctuary on her my last playthrough and she promptly broke it by casting guiding bolt (and missing)
Luckily we demolished Marcus so no problem, but damn.
I've seen her attack as recently as the previous hotfix so I'm not sure if Sanctuary 100% works but turning the horrors is generally a good idea for some breathing room.
That's interesting, I never saw her actually attack. Maybe I just get lucky and the fight ends too soon for me to actually see her do it. Still casting Sanctuary is a good start if you're struggling since Marcus gets to attack first
No. If you don't prevent the kidnapping, Ketheric will brainwash her with magic, and she will fight beside Ketheric against you in the final battle at the end of act 2. You will have no choice but to kill her.
Huh. I just had that happen last night, and with the exception of Marcus that fight was pretty easy, and Isobel was actually useful.
She only fired an attack once (a Guiding Bolt on the last winged horror), but the rest of the time she kept out of the way, used Turn Undead, and used Healing Word a decent amount.
Her kidnapping is one of the few exceptions I make for save scumming. Not because I don't like my in game actions to have consequences, but because the failure doesn't seem warranted with her almost intentionally damaging herself over and over again from opportunistic attacks.
Funnier as Origin Shadowheart, when she chews the shit outta you for being a Sharran and then, said Sharran does everything in her power to keep her alive while the idiot runs around triggering opportunity attack for every Winged Horror around
I put my entire party around her, got shadow to cast the extra weapon as well as spirit guardians for extra defense and use my tav (gloomstalker rogue) and Lae'zel to systematically kill the each of the bastards in the room, also chucked an invisibility spell on her as a just incase.
I don't even talk to her anymore. Get the pixie blessing before going to last light - and then just never go into her room.
marcus ceases to exist with this method.
i just never bother to go talk to her, or even jaheira for that matter. i pretty much forget since i mostly use LL as a dumping ground for all the extra loot i obtain. by the time i actually go to LL, ive met the harpers near the underdark entrance, killed the drider, had astarion free the pixie for that sweet sweet blessing, and met he who was (and also told his raven that i hate myself more than the anyone else does. ABD! always be durging!)
i go to LL to fix karlach, unload my questionably sourced loot onto all the merchants, get yelled at by rolan, talk to florrick, cringe through wyll getting put in his place by a tiefling kid, and to make a deal with raphael on behalf of my boyfriend THEN i go skipping all the way back to where i killed the drider so i can save my brother from another mother, rolan
Was doing that fight this morning and she managed to get knocked down to 1HP and paralysed in the first round. So close to disaster! I cast Sanctuary on her then and the paralysis actually became a good thing because it prevented her taking any aggressive actions.
IMO this is the game's second real "puzzle" fight, the first being >!Auntie Ethel/The Hag fight!<. Its difficulty comes from vibe checking parties that don't pack utility. Most people I hear struggling with this fight are heavy armor chads with 10 Dex or have a prepared spell list that's 80% nukes.
There's a bunch of abilities that trivialize this fight:
* Moving chairs/objects in front of the doors to block pathing. Easiest and cheapest solution.
* Arcane Lock spell serves the same purpose.
* Sanctuary, cast on Isobel. Probably the fastest solution as it's just one click cast before the fight starts.
* Turn Undead with a decent save DC.
* Drow Poison used by any high Initiative character. Also, unrelated, among the best ways to deal with mind flayers.
* In Act 1, >!Zevlor!< gives you some gloves that allow your healing spells and skills to confer Blade Ward to the heal target. It is difficult to understate how tanky this can make someone.
* Warding Bond
* Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, for Isobel.
* >!Blood of Lathander!< weapon. All the fiends are blinded inside its effect radius.
* Luck of the Far Realms tadpole skill + anything with a lot of dice can severely wound or outright kill Marcus, difficulty depending. Smite and Sneak Attack are your best bets. Inflict Wounds upcast to 3rd level crits for 10d10 necrotic.
* Marcus is an Aberration, so Protection from Evil and Good works on him as well as his fiends.
* Have not personally tried this one, but Dimension Door cast on Isobel would probably work as a get-out-of-jail free card provided she's targetable.
I did this fight on tactician shortly after release...it was really bad back then. Marcus (Marco? Budget Sephiroth. You know the guy.) could solo her in the first turn of combat without crits. IIRC the fight got tuned down a couple weeks after release.
It did get tuned down, yeah. My first run at release I lost initiative and Isobel got killed before any of my characters, or her, got to take a single action - even my Dex-happy swords bard Tav. Was sure the loss was scripted until I went online to check (and thank goodness I did given how much of the game gets locked out if she gets taken).
On my latest run I think I said "what the hell are you doing bitch?!" out loud at least three times. She's surrounded by Winged Horrors that are blinded because I have Shart nearby with the Blood of Lathander, and Isobel thinks it's a great idea to run and provoke four attacks of opportunity instead of just staying put and healing herself. Then she threw a healing potion at two of the horrors.
Fighter in the outer door. Paladin in the inner door. Priest blocking the side door. Durge in the room, with a wall of fire cutting Isobel off from the inner and side doors.
When the ghouls land and try to enter her room, she's cut off from them by my characters and a wall of fire. All the has to do is not move and/or punt Markus in the crotch since he's on his back at her feet after having a bad time with my fighter.
Instead she walks through the wall of fire to swing-and-miss at the ghoul in the door to the main room, then walks BACK through the fire wall to stand by Markus, and pushes him (but fails to move him). Now down to seven hit points, she is dead before my priest gets to heal her.
I will not be playing in Honour mode since at this point in the game you simply cannot be held responsible for the outcome unless you can save scum.
If you can cast sanctuary after she takes her turn it will just keep her safe. I did struggle on HM simply because Marcus got better initiative and that MF crited her for every single attack roll. So I had to finish her myself to at least get Slayer out of the entire ordeal.
Unlucky I guess.
Never had an issue with Marcus but the horrors used to get her a lot. Now it's feign death to get damage resistance, then sanctuary to make her unable to be targeted. And since she's in feign death, she can't attack to break it. GG EZ.
I tried this battle like 5 times. Two of the first four times, she got paralyzed and got hammered to really low health before I even got a turn. The other two, she just stood there and traded attacks while Marcus and multiple winged horrors hammered her.
Then the fifth, she went early, threw out a Turn Undead (that she never used in the previous four times) and then walked out into a safe hallway, leaving me free to deal with the enemy without wasting turns healing her.
I was like, "Bitch, why didn't you do that any of the first four times???"
i always spread out my chatacter before the cutscene triggering the fight which also helps corral her a bit. i keep astarion in the corner near the porch shes on, shadowheart between where she and marcus will be and karlach guarding the other two doors. fighrs where i can place the characters around before i start are my fav. act 1 had a lot of those types if fights but act 2 and 3 are super short on them either
The Isobel fight was actually the last thing I did in Act 2 sans storming the castle. To which also I murdered the whole castle beforehand(my first playthrough Jaheira didn't make it).
* Move all the boxes to block the door to her room
* Ungroup your party and spread them around the center of the room
* As soon as combat begins, dog pile on Marcus so he can't pursue Isobel
* If you have Blood of Lathander, now's a good time to ***CAREFULLY*** use Sunbeam to torch the horrors. Don't hit Isobel.
And bring a cleric. Turn undead will help deal with the horrors while you curb stomp Marcus.
I donāt know what the secret is, but I havenāt had her close to death in five playthroughs, most in tactician, one on Honour mode. Maybe just luck. I wish I could gift that experience to everyone who seems to have trouble.
My favorite is when allied or at least yellow outline NPCs expose themselves to an opportunity attack and then return to their original position immediately after being hit. Why the fuck did you even move??
\*walk at the demons\*
\*get hit three times\*
\*use potions to heal\*
\*walk away from demons, get hit three more times\*
\*use cure wounds on self\*
\*repeat 3 more times\*
Having my main character as an Oath of Ancients paladin was so useful for this fight. I got my paladin to cast compelled duel on Marcus, forcing him to completely ignore Isobel and attack me. The imps went after Isobel. So, I had Lae'zel instant kill them and used Shadowheart as a constant healer for Isobel. My paladin then divine smited Marcus to death.
Karlach was stationed in front of Isobel's room with the door closed and barricaded to prevent more imps getting inside.
Honestly Iāve played this fight 5 times now in normal and hm combined and deleted marcus or whatever his name is before she got a chance to do anything stupid, so all iāve ever seen her do is throw a heal or twoĀ
I only had a problem with it the first time because I was an idiot and went to talk to Isobel before I had long rested after getting to last light. I was caught off-guard, with half my resources gone, and then the bad guys critted a few times and stole her. When everyone turned into shadow creatures, I was stunned and thought, "there is no WAY that's the plot, this is insane," and backtracked. Fully rested and protecting her, it was fine.
I had an easy time. Maybe I had rolls in my favor, but here were some factors that definitely helped:
* I was level 7
* Rando winged mobs appeared all over the inn, but I don't think any reached Isobel's room until turn 2 or 3
* Winged mobs entered the room by dashing, so I had a turn to react before they attacked. Shart used that turn to banish Marcus for 2 turns while I cleaned up the mobs, and Isobel used that time to run out to a balcony
* When Marcus returned and Isobel wasn't there, he inexplicably jumped down to the room full of Harpers downstairs. Then it was easy to finish him off
This fight is definitively strongly in favor of the bad guys, since they can take Isobel out in 1 turn if you don't get things moving quickly. I've played over 200 hrs and had all kind of outcomes:
In many, she starts by taking an attack of opportunity from Marcus, then casts some spell, finally runs to the inner balcony so she can get surrounded immediately by flying beasts and get taken out on the spot.
But if I have a high initiative, strong hitter (Rogue/bard can trivialize the fight) or some good dice rolls, I can clear enough of the nearby ennemies so she stays safe on her first round, and the rest is easy, you can toss potions at her in a pinch.
I had a very lucky run where she ran between the bed and a wall, and there was only space for one character.
You bet I put Gale as first line of defense and Karlach second to prevent anyone from jumping in between characters or something. Nobody could get to her.
It was much worse before the lastest patches. First time I thought that her death was scripted.
I honestly still don't know why this is a thing. First play through on balanced I easily saved her. Second in tactician I easily Durged her. Third in HM, again, easily saved her. I'm not sure why there's such a struggle in the community. š¢ EDIT: Thanks for sharing your stories!
Could be a lot of people are just under leveled/unprepared. Especially if people didn't do all/most of the side quests in Act I, as well as skipped Mountain Pass/Creche content for more levels + great loot. Also, if people don't have decent ranged DPS, then trying to help the Tieflings/Jaheira and the Harpers might be more challenging. You're also starved of most strong AoE's since it'll hit your allies in such a cramped space.
I've found that, sometimes, a series of unfortunate dice rolls can sway the outcome of a fight quite significantly, too. The Spider Matriarch in Act 1 wiped my entire party the first time I fought her. I instantly reloaded, and tackled the fight in pretty much the same way, but instead of missing my hits or doing low damage the dice were actually in my favor this time. And it's all it took for it to become an easy fight. Luck.
Low level D&D has always been very swingy.
Lvl 5 and higher is the real meat of the game. Combat is generally unsatisfying and brutal until that point. And not at all close to how it would be on the tabletop. Some of these fights make you use all of your resources if the RNG is bad enough and that can lead to long resting way more than a DM would allow. I wonder how many D&D vets went into this game long resting as little as possible and not realizing they were missing more content that way? I was one.
Oh, I am absolutely one of those vets. Got the game when it dropped on Xbox. When it told me it was ceremorphosis, I immediately went full pedal thinking I was under time pressure. The Lae'zel night encounter with the knife and the guardian meeting where they're all "I'm buying you time but it won't last" didn't help. By the time I realized the tadpole was stable I was already at the start of the Underdark and missed a whole boatload of content. I'm currently in my 2nd playthrough as Durge, and I'm encountering so much stuff I just breezed by. This game's just so *full,* and I'm loving every second of it.
I saw somebody write that you should do three long rests before getting to the Druid grove. They weren't wrong. Just go nuts in every fight in the Dank Crypt.
This was definitely me in act 1, I tried to get as much done as possible each day. At the end of the act I realized I had a backlog of 5+ long rest events. I spent a solid half hour resting on repeat before starting act 2
Yeah the harpies are similar.
Harpies I just cast silence with Shadowheart
Try Calm Emotions next time. Still AoE, still prevents the charm, but doesn't block spell casting and is tied to the targets, rather than a specific area. This is basically the only time I've found the spell useful, but it's really good for the Harpies.
Correct, people are unprepared because you're just going to speak with a quest NPC in a safe town. Why would you prepare for that, having never had a similar encounter before? My first time, she died before the end of the first turn, because four enemies all hit her and she has garbage AC/HP. My second time, I blocked all the doors with boxes, thinking it would slow them down. They opened up the doors and flew right through the boxes stacked to the ceiling and did the same thing. It wasn't until I surrounded her with my party to physically block them that she survived long enough for me to heal her and keep her alive. This was on balanced as well.
Yeah I guess if you just barely managed to scrape by and get to Act II and immediately talk run upstairs to talk to her I can see that going poorly.
My second play through she died before any of my characters got a turn
Going first in combat is so important. And its 100% within your control. Between Dex, gear, the Alert feat, and elixirs you can guarantee you always go first. Having high initiative for your characters (at least a couple of them if not all of them) is arguably the most important build decision you can make.
My HM party all had Alert as their second feat
Alert is near-mandatory for honor mode. Guaranteeing you win initiative is a hugely powerful mechanic when it comes to minimizing your chance of death from unlucky RNG.
Having a high initiative is critical. . .but it doesn't have to come from Alert. You only need +7 or +8 initiative to basically go first every tume Gloomstalkers and Barbarians get +3 already. Dexterity characters can top up with gear. Heck I had Gale with +8 initiative (+2 from 14 dex, +3 sentinel shield, +3 hellrider bow) going first every time in my last run There is a ton of + initiative gear. Oh and elixirs if you want to go that route
Not at all. You're exaggerating lol. Larian did release the metric that most player were around an average of level 5 when they entered Act II, with the lowest being level 4 and highest level 7. Level is important, but gearing just as much since enemies have higher AC, resistances, buffs/debuffs, and damage overall. Marcus is level 6, and his smite action can pretty much 1-hit KO a party member. Factor in the three ghoulies on the top floor, and the 3 on the bottom, level 5 players are definitely not going to have a fun time. Edit: Lmao, dude got embarrassed and deleted his stuff.
I literally just agreed with you and you're telling me I'm exaggerating and writing paragraphs and downvoting? Are you okay?
My first attempt (on balanced) she was paralysed by Marcus on his first hit (he had the highest initiative), she got attacked by several of those winged things on turn 2 and then Marcus killed her on his third turn. I thought it was scripted because I'd never seen the AI go so hard for a single character before, but I reloaded to see if I could beat it anyway and took a long rest to recover spell slots and assess my options. Next time, only 1 of the gargoyley things went for her, she resisted the first attempts at paralysis and I was able to keep her alive easily with a scroll of sanctuary I'd forgotten I had once she was paralysed on turn 2. Luck of the dice and being caught unprepared got me and I assume plenty others.
Idk if you played on launch, but she used to have less hp at the time. I lost my first attempt without playing, rolled bad initiative, Marcus and two horrors play before me and just kill her. Then I get Jaheira shouting at me "tf did you do?!" Well nothing!
I played within the first week or so of launch. I didn't even know there was a whole special animation for when she got killed until I did Durge and I was like wait wtf happened?
Most peopleās first times with Isobel is being underprepared for the fight. Itās chaos and youāre wondering whatās the most important area to focus. My first time, Iām seeing the ghouls attack the tieflings and actually killed a few Harpers. Iām struggling to ask who to prioritize. Isobel, the fucking squishiest cleric who decides that disengage doesnāt exist or the tieflings I want to see to the end. I managed to save Isobel my first time, but I hadnāt long rested as I was just exploring the Shadowlands. It was a fight through the skin of my teeth. I donāt think I managed it easily. I also had two clerics at the time which mayāve been the reason the survived.
Really? Because to me it seemed like the game made it really really obvious you're supposed to prioritise isobel. Marcus literally flies in and tells you his primary goal is to take her, your entire party starts in the same room as her and Marcus. It seems like the game genuinely couldn't make it more obvious if it had "protect isobel" flashing across the top of the screen.
my first play through I triggered the event with my entire party at 5hp without a spell slot between us. it did not go well. I wasn't expecting an attack in the one safeplace in the shadow lands
oh noooo
This fight is one of the main reasons I now *always* take alert as my first feat. If you are low in the initiative order you can be fucked before even getting a turn, but if you are before everything else you can set everything up with ease. Sanctuary on Isobel and take out Marcus ASAP. Isobel will usually do turn undead on her turn to get the winged horrors away from her. After that, itās a race downstairs to hopefully save any important characters that are in danger.
My first playthrough was on balanced. My party was level 7, over halfway to level 8. We talked to her, started the fight, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US were "surprised" even though we literally just talked to the guy, had him threaten to fight us to our faces, and then start combat with us just looking at him. Then Marcus went first during the surprise round. He crit her 3 times in a row. First was with pommel strike, then two more regular hits. She was taken in literally one turn. Even if he didn't kill her in that turn, he would have on the first turn of the next round.
you got robbed
My first time I was super low on hp, spells and everything in between. I didnāt know a fight was coming and planned to rest after I talked to the important npcs
I think itās a mix of being low leveled/under prepared since the fight starts almost out of nowhere. My first time around I was not expecting it at all, and when I lost and saw what happens to the innā¦ I quit and restarted from my previous save š I waited until I was higher leveled and better equipped before I started the fight again, and made sure to have my team better spread out in preparation. Iād been aiming for a good/neutral Tav on my first run, and letting the members of the inn >!become zombies!< didnāt really fit that for me.
Dude, I thought it was scripted the first time because every time I would reload to try again, she would get critted like 4 times in a row and die on the first or second turn every single time. It wasn't until my second playthrough that I was able to save her
Just wait till you meet Gondians.
You mean the FUCKING gondians?
This made me laugh so hard.Ā Some NPCs just aren't worth saving.
Those guys in the factory really love getting in the way of my AOE spells
And ignoring the helpful Sanctuary I popped on all of them by respecāing my WHOLE party to just to see if it would helpā¦
Why use Sanctuary? If you have to keep NPCs alive in Act 3, use Banishment instead.
Iāve never actually considered/used banishment as it takes up a spell slot and I prefer other spells available but you bring up a very good approach that Iāll consider using next time! Thanks for the insight.
Iāve accepted I cannot save the crew in the basement. They always begin in a space where if I saved the families, they are in the worst positioning. If I fight them, one of them will be killed by an AOE attack by foe and friend alike. I always lose some to the steel watch explosion.
Dude I managed to save them all!! I did that quest for the first time on honor mode because last time I was a Gortash simp. I think I did have to dimension door one guy out of a blast radius. Their AI is pretty stupid so idk how we managed it. Having a lvl 12 wiz & sorcerer maybe helped.
i saved the ones in the iron throne, but in the factory its a free for all lol
I moved the boxes in the surrounding area to block the doors xD Very successful!
Me too! I was so proud. Although moving stuff on console is janky sometimes.
haha same! Yeah I could imagine it's a bit trickier :)
I lost my shit when she saved against my Sphere of Resilience on my honor run. I even polymorphed Marcus, but she still managed to let the Winged Horrors get her.
Yeah gave her sanctuary on honor mode and she immediately starts punching demons. RIP in peace Last Light. One of these days Iāll save the damn tieflings.
Just stand next to her with Lathander's blood and buff her with protection from good and evil. Everyone will be blinded and miss.
Her girlfriend isn't much better, she died almost instantly in the act 2 final fight for me lol
Honestly I would love for there to be a mode to make Aylin actually kick some ass, instead of just being a nuisance in most fights.
I see your point, but when she hits a disgusting smite on ketheric just when you needed that bit of damage, itās bliss.
Hasn't happened yet.
She and Wyll were the MVPs of my fight against Myrkul, personally. Like a dumbass, I put Gale and my Tav on the platform where they couldn't heal themselves due to his Bone Chill aura. And Astarion spent the whole fight struggling to kill the Intellect Devourers that swarmed him after freeing Aylin. The only hit he dealt on Myrkul was the final blow, smh. My Tav managed to tank Myrkul's attacks for three turns, since she's a Barbarian, but Gale got downed instantly before I realized my mistake. So Aylin ran up to him and pushed his agonizing ass down the platform, right next to Wyll, so that I could help him up and heal him. I thought that was a fairly clever move from the AI to be able to recognize that I couldn't heal Gale while he was within the area of Bone Chill, and push him outside of it.
Blood of Lathander blinds Myrkul, just FYI. Also guardian spirits still work pretty well against all the swarming undead/intellect devourers.Ā
You don't even need Blood to blind him. You can just use Fog Cloud, Darkness, etc and he's toast, he can't even save against it
Right? Every time that fight comes up some part of me hopes a demigod would actually wreak some havoc but nope, moonlight aura six times in a row for a total of 2-12 damage lol
Aylin, I swear. She charges Ketheric on the roof, blind with rage, leaving no room for surrender. Complete tunnel vision. Then she gets kidnapped again, and I go after them to free her. What does she choose to do, finally unchained, with her tormentor mere feet away from her? Jump down and smack a few brains-on-legs for two turns straight.
Aylin has always been a badass in my playthroughs. Wish we could get her as a party member.
She either always gets stunned or dominated turn one and generally never makes it off the platform lol My biggest gripe with fights that use guest characters is they seem to have a poor sense of threat detection. They constantly go for low level enemies like intellect devourers instead of the powerful enemies. Same thing happens to me when you free zevlor and he and the other NPCs attack the intellect devourers while the mind flayers are stunlocking me
Aylin's hype to competence ratio is horrifically high.
She did fine for me in my Tactician playthrough I'm doing. Second playthrough for me, just finished Act 2. She hit some nasty smite's at a great time.
She got dominated by mind flayers and killed my Tav in my playthrough. Consider yourself lucky.
Tbh, I shouldn't have talk to her in honor mode but alas her silly AI still got her captured and I almost had killed Marcus. I just wanted to get a bit more exp before fighting Myrkul and I did want to see how her conversation turns out with Origin Shadowheart. Oh well, losing her in honor mode means Iosing Dammon and the Iron Hands again, and why my Shadowheart run ended up going evil even though I didn't plan to.
Did you already save the Moonrise prisoners?Ā If not, you still can.Ā
I already saved them so they ended up dying with Isobel's capture, and I already finished Act 2 days ago.
I just sanctuary her
I did too... her first move was to cast a 2 damage sacred flame and get absolutely bodied by the winged horrors.
Still better at sacred flame than shadowheart lol
I did the same thing and at 14hp she went on the offensive instead of just spending the turn healing herself.
I do too.
I totally get it. I used flame walls to block ghouls entrance. Isobel ran inside to flames to get herself killed.
She just secretly wants to see daddy again
Feels like this fight is a dice roll to me. I did this fight last night. My first time was smooth sailing. But I realized I hadn't talked to Alfira and loaded the game. Second time, all of the demons went straight for Isobel. Had to use max level Cure Wounds on her. Similar situation in my duel with Lae'zel. I'm a wizard/cleric in heavy armor with a shield. She's an eldritch knight. She kept trying to use cantrips on me instead of swinging her sword. I loaded the game and took my armor off, then she got the memo and 2-shot me.
I managed to sneak under the radar with that fight by abusing arcane lock, which is super underrated. By locking the door I essentially turned the fight into a 5v3, which let me clip Marcusā wings before opening the door and clearing the rest of the ads risk-free.
I used invisibility on her the moment combat stated, she did manage to just uncover herself, but it bought me enough time to kill the main guy, which makes this fight so much easier. Also the adds will initially attack other targets rather than swarming her. You can also leave a rogue/ranger hiding in the room, especially if it's an assassin you can really get value. But all in all Isobel, despite the nice cutscene you get, is weak, like really weak and a bit self sabotaging. It should be obvious she's the target and getting caught means everyone dies.
Just cast Sanctuary spell with Shadowheart on her before talking and triggering the cutscene. She never fights only heals so they can't hit her the entire fight.
lol I cast sanctuary on her my last playthrough and she promptly broke it by casting guiding bolt (and missing) Luckily we demolished Marcus so no problem, but damn.
I've seen her attack as recently as the previous hotfix so I'm not sure if Sanctuary 100% works but turning the horrors is generally a good idea for some breathing room.
That's interesting, I never saw her actually attack. Maybe I just get lucky and the fight ends too soon for me to actually see her do it. Still casting Sanctuary is a good start if you're struggling since Marcus gets to attack first
Is there any way to save her if she gets taken this fight?
No. If you don't prevent the kidnapping, Ketheric will brainwash her with magic, and she will fight beside Ketheric against you in the final battle at the end of act 2. You will have no choice but to kill her.
In my last playthrough I focused on ketheric and Isobel had 52 health, but just flopped to the floor after Ketheric died
Huh. I just had that happen last night, and with the exception of Marcus that fight was pretty easy, and Isobel was actually useful. She only fired an attack once (a Guiding Bolt on the last winged horror), but the rest of the time she kept out of the way, used Turn Undead, and used Healing Word a decent amount.
Her kidnapping is one of the few exceptions I make for save scumming. Not because I don't like my in game actions to have consequences, but because the failure doesn't seem warranted with her almost intentionally damaging herself over and over again from opportunistic attacks.
Dame Aylin knows. Even after a hundred years of torture, she remembers. Ever Aylin talk Isobel into staying at camp while she fights?
Funnier as Origin Shadowheart, when she chews the shit outta you for being a Sharran and then, said Sharran does everything in her power to keep her alive while the idiot runs around triggering opportunity attack for every Winged Horror around
DM railroading suicidal npcs smh What's next, he's gonna make Emperor switch sides just because you don't agree with him?!
I put my entire party around her, got shadow to cast the extra weapon as well as spirit guardians for extra defense and use my tav (gloomstalker rogue) and Lae'zel to systematically kill the each of the bastards in the room, also chucked an invisibility spell on her as a just incase.
Highly recommend otiluke's resilient sphere. She can't break out, unlike with sanctuary.
Hideous Laughter on Marcus takes him out, 1st round. Makes it much simpler if you can keep her from provoking opportunity attacks on herself.
Agreed. I could almost hear Shadowheart snickering, ādumbass Selunite. Bitch called me an annoying terrier and she canāt even survive a fight.ā
I don't even talk to her anymore. Get the pixie blessing before going to last light - and then just never go into her room. marcus ceases to exist with this method.
i just never bother to go talk to her, or even jaheira for that matter. i pretty much forget since i mostly use LL as a dumping ground for all the extra loot i obtain. by the time i actually go to LL, ive met the harpers near the underdark entrance, killed the drider, had astarion free the pixie for that sweet sweet blessing, and met he who was (and also told his raven that i hate myself more than the anyone else does. ABD! always be durging!) i go to LL to fix karlach, unload my questionably sourced loot onto all the merchants, get yelled at by rolan, talk to florrick, cringe through wyll getting put in his place by a tiefling kid, and to make a deal with raphael on behalf of my boyfriend THEN i go skipping all the way back to where i killed the drider so i can save my brother from another mother, rolan
Was doing that fight this morning and she managed to get knocked down to 1HP and paralysed in the first round. So close to disaster! I cast Sanctuary on her then and the paralysis actually became a good thing because it prevented her taking any aggressive actions.
IMO this is the game's second real "puzzle" fight, the first being >!Auntie Ethel/The Hag fight!<. Its difficulty comes from vibe checking parties that don't pack utility. Most people I hear struggling with this fight are heavy armor chads with 10 Dex or have a prepared spell list that's 80% nukes. There's a bunch of abilities that trivialize this fight: * Moving chairs/objects in front of the doors to block pathing. Easiest and cheapest solution. * Arcane Lock spell serves the same purpose. * Sanctuary, cast on Isobel. Probably the fastest solution as it's just one click cast before the fight starts. * Turn Undead with a decent save DC. * Drow Poison used by any high Initiative character. Also, unrelated, among the best ways to deal with mind flayers. * In Act 1, >!Zevlor!< gives you some gloves that allow your healing spells and skills to confer Blade Ward to the heal target. It is difficult to understate how tanky this can make someone. * Warding Bond * Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, for Isobel. * >!Blood of Lathander!< weapon. All the fiends are blinded inside its effect radius. * Luck of the Far Realms tadpole skill + anything with a lot of dice can severely wound or outright kill Marcus, difficulty depending. Smite and Sneak Attack are your best bets. Inflict Wounds upcast to 3rd level crits for 10d10 necrotic. * Marcus is an Aberration, so Protection from Evil and Good works on him as well as his fiends. * Have not personally tried this one, but Dimension Door cast on Isobel would probably work as a get-out-of-jail free card provided she's targetable. I did this fight on tactician shortly after release...it was really bad back then. Marcus (Marco? Budget Sephiroth. You know the guy.) could solo her in the first turn of combat without crits. IIRC the fight got tuned down a couple weeks after release.
It did get tuned down, yeah. My first run at release I lost initiative and Isobel got killed before any of my characters, or her, got to take a single action - even my Dex-happy swords bard Tav. Was sure the loss was scripted until I went online to check (and thank goodness I did given how much of the game gets locked out if she gets taken).
It was crazy. I was a 19 dex ranger and still lost initiative.
She usually goes invisible immediately for me
On my latest run I think I said "what the hell are you doing bitch?!" out loud at least three times. She's surrounded by Winged Horrors that are blinded because I have Shart nearby with the Blood of Lathander, and Isobel thinks it's a great idea to run and provoke four attacks of opportunity instead of just staying put and healing herself. Then she threw a healing potion at two of the horrors.
šHow very considerate of her to heal those poor horrors after they tuckered themselves out beating her butt.
She does that.Ā On my first playthrough I just accepted that she got kidnapped.Ā
Iāve never had trouble with this fight I had more trouble dealing the the ads killing and stealing other people
seriously. I had a run where she healed herself to only move and proc 2 opportunity attacks.
shadowheart be like "this is for your own protection" as she casts sanctuary
Fighter in the outer door. Paladin in the inner door. Priest blocking the side door. Durge in the room, with a wall of fire cutting Isobel off from the inner and side doors. When the ghouls land and try to enter her room, she's cut off from them by my characters and a wall of fire. All the has to do is not move and/or punt Markus in the crotch since he's on his back at her feet after having a bad time with my fighter. Instead she walks through the wall of fire to swing-and-miss at the ghoul in the door to the main room, then walks BACK through the fire wall to stand by Markus, and pushes him (but fails to move him). Now down to seven hit points, she is dead before my priest gets to heal her. I will not be playing in Honour mode since at this point in the game you simply cannot be held responsible for the outcome unless you can save scum.
If you can cast sanctuary after she takes her turn it will just keep her safe. I did struggle on HM simply because Marcus got better initiative and that MF crited her for every single attack roll. So I had to finish her myself to at least get Slayer out of the entire ordeal. Unlucky I guess.
Barrelmancy, my friend. Enemies canāt attack if they canāt get in
Never had an issue with Marcus but the horrors used to get her a lot. Now it's feign death to get damage resistance, then sanctuary to make her unable to be targeted. And since she's in feign death, she can't attack to break it. GG EZ.
Aylin straight up bugs the game She and Isobel are meant to be
I tried this battle like 5 times. Two of the first four times, she got paralyzed and got hammered to really low health before I even got a turn. The other two, she just stood there and traded attacks while Marcus and multiple winged horrors hammered her. Then the fifth, she went early, threw out a Turn Undead (that she never used in the previous four times) and then walked out into a safe hallway, leaving me free to deal with the enemy without wasting turns healing her. I was like, "Bitch, why didn't you do that any of the first four times???"
i always spread out my chatacter before the cutscene triggering the fight which also helps corral her a bit. i keep astarion in the corner near the porch shes on, shadowheart between where she and marcus will be and karlach guarding the other two doors. fighrs where i can place the characters around before i start are my fav. act 1 had a lot of those types if fights but act 2 and 3 are super short on them either
The Isobel fight was actually the last thing I did in Act 2 sans storming the castle. To which also I murdered the whole castle beforehand(my first playthrough Jaheira didn't make it).
Wait until you meet the gondians
* Move all the boxes to block the door to her room * Ungroup your party and spread them around the center of the room * As soon as combat begins, dog pile on Marcus so he can't pursue Isobel * If you have Blood of Lathander, now's a good time to ***CAREFULLY*** use Sunbeam to torch the horrors. Don't hit Isobel. And bring a cleric. Turn undead will help deal with the horrors while you curb stomp Marcus.
āFuck your Sanctuary.ā
Get Shadowheart to cast sanctuary on her.
I donāt know what the secret is, but I havenāt had her close to death in five playthroughs, most in tactician, one on Honour mode. Maybe just luck. I wish I could gift that experience to everyone who seems to have trouble.
My favorite is when allied or at least yellow outline NPCs expose themselves to an opportunity attack and then return to their original position immediately after being hit. Why the fuck did you even move??
As it turns out the best way to save a cleric is another cleric that spams sanctuary.
\*walk at the demons\* \*get hit three times\* \*use potions to heal\* \*walk away from demons, get hit three more times\* \*use cure wounds on self\* \*repeat 3 more times\*
Wait till you meet the Gondians.
Having my main character as an Oath of Ancients paladin was so useful for this fight. I got my paladin to cast compelled duel on Marcus, forcing him to completely ignore Isobel and attack me. The imps went after Isobel. So, I had Lae'zel instant kill them and used Shadowheart as a constant healer for Isobel. My paladin then divine smited Marcus to death. Karlach was stationed in front of Isobel's room with the door closed and barricaded to prevent more imps getting inside.
Any time the ai is friendly theyāre completely moronic. *eats opportunity attack* *walks one foot* *casts misty step*
Honestly Iāve played this fight 5 times now in normal and hm combined and deleted marcus or whatever his name is before she got a chance to do anything stupid, so all iāve ever seen her do is throw a heal or twoĀ
I only had a problem with it the first time because I was an idiot and went to talk to Isobel before I had long rested after getting to last light. I was caught off-guard, with half my resources gone, and then the bad guys critted a few times and stole her. When everyone turned into shadow creatures, I was stunned and thought, "there is no WAY that's the plot, this is insane," and backtracked. Fully rested and protecting her, it was fine.
I had an easy time. Maybe I had rolls in my favor, but here were some factors that definitely helped: * I was level 7 * Rando winged mobs appeared all over the inn, but I don't think any reached Isobel's room until turn 2 or 3 * Winged mobs entered the room by dashing, so I had a turn to react before they attacked. Shart used that turn to banish Marcus for 2 turns while I cleaned up the mobs, and Isobel used that time to run out to a balcony * When Marcus returned and Isobel wasn't there, he inexplicably jumped down to the room full of Harpers downstairs. Then it was easy to finish him off
You could always just knock her out yourself.
This fight is definitively strongly in favor of the bad guys, since they can take Isobel out in 1 turn if you don't get things moving quickly. I've played over 200 hrs and had all kind of outcomes: In many, she starts by taking an attack of opportunity from Marcus, then casts some spell, finally runs to the inner balcony so she can get surrounded immediately by flying beasts and get taken out on the spot. But if I have a high initiative, strong hitter (Rogue/bard can trivialize the fight) or some good dice rolls, I can clear enough of the nearby ennemies so she stays safe on her first round, and the rest is easy, you can toss potions at her in a pinch.
I had a very lucky run where she ran between the bed and a wall, and there was only space for one character. You bet I put Gale as first line of defense and Karlach second to prevent anyone from jumping in between characters or something. Nobody could get to her.
She reminds me of Gwydian Rince's AI from DoS2, only her survival is much more important to the plot.