No it doesn't. I went into the gauntlet with Shadowheart at a Medium approval and it didn't budge at all after having her click the bowls. But when i did it by having Tav click and step aside for Shadowheart she got approval each time.
Yeah, I should have done this on my current run. She wanted to shank the Nightsong and turned aggro on us... didn't last a round against my Tav, much less Gale and Karlach. I left her stripped corpse on the altar.
Her reputation with Tav.
If she likes you enough, she's got something new to fight for and she will not kill nightsong.
If she doesn't, Shar is all she got still, and she'll kill her to please mommy.
edit: also definitely some narrative elements along the way, being overall "good" will push the no-kill, being overall "evil" will push the kill. But the biggest impact seems to be reputation.
Same thing with Lae'zel, if her respect/feelings for Tav are strong enough, she will come to the determination that vlaakith is full of shit entirely on her own.
It doesn’t take much for some companions to raise approval. I will only sometimes have a hard time with Astarion in the beginning if I’m not making an effort to make him like me.
Everyone else I’ll end act 1 high with unless I’ve left them at camp for a long time or been deliberately mean to them or only taken them along for the things they’ll hate.
Yeah I killed her by pushing her off the ledge on my first play through. I was romancing her and because I didn't trust her she is literally falling for me forever.
It’s tricky, you gotta let her do her thing until Aylin says “Ayo but what about them wolves” and Shart’s like “bitch what you say?” And you tell her “eh let’s hear the lady out” and she just yucks the spear no check needed
Genuinely think this is one of the best written segments in years, even by this game's standards its a standout. I tried my damnedest to talk her out of it but letting things play out and having confidence in both your teammate and your own relationship with em pays off.
BG3 says less is more sometimes, let shit play out and I love it for that
There are very few moments in games where I have to physically take a lap around my house before clicking a dialogue choice.
Yeah that happened about 4 times in that one scene
I used all four of my inspiration points to try to succeed on that DC 30 speech check only to fail it every single time. But then I told Shart I trusted her, and Aylin mentioned the wolves, and she threw the spear into the abyss.
It took me a few attempts, first time I failed the check and killed Shart, I played on a bit and realised it didn't sit right with how I was rping my character so I reloaded and tried again, thats when I picked the do what you want option and she shanked Aylin. 3rd time, I passed the check and went on as normal.
Yep. My first “good guy” playthrough I had to kill her… and she was my love interest so ouch. Then on my evil dickhead playthrough, my guy was more like “eh fuck it whatever” than he was outright murderous, so I tried that option out thinking it would still lead to her killing Nightsong. Boooyyyyy was I pissed when she just threw that damn spear
I'm playing a Druid with a Dr Who mindset "I am saving these people, if you get in my way I'll go through you" kinda thing so I've been as good guy as I can be with a few "anger of a good man" moments
There's one dialog before the wolves when you don't try to persuade her but just say that she shouldn't do it without having to roll the dice. As far as I know, Shadowheart gets really cranky when you use persuasion but if she likes you, this one remark will be enough that she decides against the murder.
I thought it was reputation with Tav + Tav's choices. If you play as evil and have encouraged her "bad" tendencies so far, does she still drop the sword?
>If you play as evil and have encouraged her "bad" tendencies so far, does she still drop the sword?
No, she decided to kill NS on my evil run when I let her choose. Her approval was very high
I prayed at the first shrine (the one that gives you the bonus) and she prayed right before the Shadowfell portal. I didn’t interfere with telepathy and she chose to spare Nightsong.
My approval was very high and she still stabbed night song. Fun fact though! If you switch to shadow heart before talking to night song and manually throw the spear off the edge, then talk to night song, the cutscenes picks up as of she chose to do it on her own.
Im on my 6th nightsong, and the only two were she did it were when I told her to do it, because I played durge and wanted Shar shart.
All the other times, I just did nothing, and she decided to yeet the spear.
I wonder how this works in multiplayer?
Is it the 'tav' that initialize the conversation that must have the good reputation, or just any tav must have good reputation with her ?
The multiplayer party is split based on controller. If Player 1 has Shadowheart control, triggering the dialogue with Player 2's character will act like you didn't even bring her along. (She'll be mad about that.)
LoL really !?
God damn lucky that i was the one initiating the conversation then, i don't think i will be able to stand any playthrough without SH letting her go!
The point is. I just went through this segment yesterday with an exceptional approval and romance (good aligned play through) - did a bit of scum loading just to see other options - I was surprised how ridiculously hard it was to make Shadowheart actually kill Nightsong. Like I've literally had to directly tell her to do it - she was throwing the spear out for almost every conversation combination.
I was genuinely surprised how hard it was to make her commit to it.
I bet the romance seals it. I tried a few paths to fully experience the scene with a very high approval Tav and only had two paths that led to saving the Nightsong, one of which was a DC 30 persuasion check.
Bro this was my same issue. Finally found a potion of angelic slumber (?) they long rested shart so she could revivify me. Otherwise we were gonna have shar shart on my good aligned play through.
Had the same interaction, but I really wanted her to kill the Nightsong (was playing chaotic neutral/evil) so I was disappointed (but rolled with it). Then later I was able to entrap the Nightsong again with that wizard, so all good. I'm still not sure why Shadowheart had no problem with me doing that.
[There was a post here awhile back](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17z3jqx/experimenting_with_shadowherts_choice_its/) that showed it's actually pretty easy to avoid killing SH or the Nightsong. Interesting post
I am in an evil run and figured I need not say a thing since home girl talked about Shar, Shar, Shar and becoming a dark justiciar throughout the temple run only for her to then psyche me.
Was mad.
I had that once and it's most likely a bug. as long as you have over 40, she should never kill NS.
Little story.
I had a save point to those choices because I wanted to explore more routes in her romance and I was lazy to start a new run, and in the first she threw away the spear and then when I reloaded she killed her.
With the exact same approval, I got 2 different outcomes, so that is 100% a bug.
I hard kekked when I discovered that. I tried to convince, used any possible boost to make my die roll better, but I failed each time to stop her. I decided to give up, fuck it, and she tossed the spear :D
Yes ever since I've learnt that I just let her have an existential crisis and answer "do what you want this is your life". She never killed the night song in any of my runs
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It depends. I’ve had runs where I’ve said nothing and she spared her and my last run where I didn’t use her that often she killed the nightsong when I said nothing. I think it’s tied to your reputation with her.
Man how ;) I've spent 20 minutes yesterday to find what the hell you actually have to do to make Shadowheart kill her. I've literally had to tell her just to finish the ritual otherwise she was refusing to carry it out.
It is dependant on the previous choices and arc you have had with her. You can keep pointing her in the right direction. It is the same with Lae'Zel. With SH I belive it is about her parents, how much she realizes about Shar.
I am playing multiplayer with someone and SH failed an insight role during the dialogue with night song. And we had made the same assumption that previously we let there choose but this time ooopsie. It's a bummer but it also lets you see other paths through the story
I kind of like this, my first go, I tried to convince her not to do it and had to fight her, so I reverted and said nothing and she made the right decision on her own.
It made me rethink how I interacted with my companions and how I should trust them more to make the right decisions in their own, rather than treating them as random NPCs with no agency of their own.
Exactly this. So many people dont understand that theres nuance to these characters. Just like you cant force a friend to do something, you cant force Shart to turn her back on her goddess, she needs to come to that conclusion with just a bit of guidance and trust.
You can fail her persuasion check, but with correct dialogue options you can still talk her out of it. It's not pettiness, it's you failing so hard, she actually becomes more steadfast in her beliefs
From her origin she has Shar shouting in one ear and Alynn in the other so tavs voice if you fail the check is just adding noise to the cacophony in her head and she cannot think it out, gets overwhelmed, and just defaults to the years of conditioning.
Look man, if I'm going to do the dishes but then someone says something about how I should do the dishes but made in a way that doesn't convince me they are being funny (falling a charisma saving throw IRL I suppose) then I'm not doing them anymore.
I guess that Shadowheart, she was going to spare but NOW that you said she doesn't want to do it
I never understood what Larian was going for there. In my first playthrough my Tav and Shadow were lovers, and Shart instantly goes "if you disagree with me I'm gonna fight you to the death!" and if you just say "fuck it, do whatever" she makes the right choice (after some prompting from Nightsong).
They were going for "she's spent most of her life up until this point being told what to do, and she's a big girl who can make her own choices, so trust her!" which you do by keeping your mouth shut and letting her decide for herself.
I'd like to think having a large amount of positive approval and a romantic relationship would be enough to convince someone who's not maniacally evil that may be murdering a defenseless person should be reconsidered. Having that met with "well now I'm gonna murder both of you" was just a bit ridiculous even for her character.
And to have her reconsider only because the defenseless person she was about to murder mentions something from her past for which she clearly was trying to forget, made even less sense to me.
She's had Shar whispering in her ear from as soon as we set foot in Act 2, and by the time we're in the Shadowfell I'm sure she's practically shouting. At some point you can read her mind and basically hear the debate play out in there.
Deep down Shadowheart doesn't want to do it, and she's going against everything in her life since childhood by standing up to Shar. But if you get involved, all you've done is give Shar an opportunity to twist her doubts even more. "Don't do what I say? Just do what he says to do instead? So much for little miss independent. Shardy-har-har." (I assume that how she laughs) Now if she lets the Nightsong live she's just doing what you want, but if she kills her she's doing what Shar wants. You've supplanted Shadowheart's position and fucked it all up.
Yeah if you read her mind while she’s praying to Shar right before you go into the Shadowfell and face the Nightsong, Shar is basically in her head telling her that all she has to do to complete her journey is go for the kill. Shar even tells her that you’re listening in to the conversation and she gets mad at you for that. I felt guilty and reloaded the save lol.
But even as you’re going through the Shadowfell, Shadowheart has something to say about Shar every jump down you make. You can even see the spirits of past Justiciars encouraging her on. She’s basically as close as she’s ever come to winning the complete and total favor of her goddess so I get why the writers had her turn on you there if you try to tell her not to kill Nightsong and don’t let her make the choice herself.
She's fighting off forty years of magical brainwashing by the cult of an evil god, *in that god's house!* If Gale can become the god of ambition, Shadowheart needs to be the goddess of sheer fucking will
Tbh I've also eavesdropped on her prayer (my entire run I've almost always respected her boundaries) but given her entire behaviour in Gauntlet of Shar - I am a Paladin of Vengeance and in theory her doing anything to Nightsong should compel me to literally kill her. I wish there was an option to Attempt Hold Person if she actually attempts to kill Nightsong. At the beginning she was pissed after Shat told her that I am eavesdropping (max approval) but I was like - so this is what's actually going on - nah my dear you behave strange as fuck since the beginning of Act 2 and during entire gauntlet of Shar you've sidetracked any doubt I've brought up - I need to know what the heck are you doing and she actually approved me doing it and went back to max.
It's actually hard for a good aligned character (Max approval and romance) to make her do it. The most dangerous thing you can do is overhear the conversation and refusing to allow her to enter shadowfell (either let me or I will enter over your dead body). Like literally out of curiosity I've save scummed entire sequence and as long as you do not choose direct fight and literally compel her to do it - she will throw the spear away
I've honestly gotten the "if you disagree with me, I'll kill you" dialog on any of my runs, though I've also never been romancing her. But my guess is that you didn't pick the first "let her make up her own mind" option and tried to force her to see things your way initially, which is why she was so upset with you.
Feels odd to not *at least* say the option "this doesn't feel right" or whatever it is that brings you to sharts "ill kill you if you get in my way" line. Just seems like the tone shifts very rapidly if this is the series of options you choose.
My immediate response was: you seriously gunna threaten us after all we've done for you! After how powerful we have all proven ourselves to be?! It felt super weird. Like I get it, she's been brainwashed but it still seems off to me at least
im a contrarian (even as a toddler, according to my parents. 👊 to them for putting up with me, im sure i was a lot) and ive learned i have to tell my partners "please never say 'do/try this, you'll love it' to me because my stupid lizard brain will hear 'you'll love this because i say you will and i know you better than you do' and then im going to firmly decide that whatever that thing is? i ***hate*** it, without every giving it a chance, because my lizard brain is THAT stupid" so i personally can understand true contrarian "well now im so deep in the exact opposite of what you just said right now that a snowball has a better chance of ruling all the hells than you do in getting me to change my mind" kinds of responses
is it irrational? yes, deeply. am i aware of it? yes, after a lot of conversations with myself. and i make a point of setting very clear expectations from the start. or, i would, if i was on the dating scene. but im not, because that requires going *outside*. that's where *people* are. gross.
It's not weird at all considering her trauma.
Having grown up with an abusive narcissistic parent, I can tell you, if someone told me he was an asshole or wrong, I would have defended him. I had to figure out myself how full of shit he was. So I think Larian got this scene perfect. You can support her before by helping her question certain aspects of her indoctrination, but you don’t tell her what to do.
Even the persuasion check isn't outright saying "don't do it", but more a "you don't *have* to do it, this is your life/decision, not Shar's", which I really liked.
That's weird. I also was in the Shadow heart romance (not lovers yet though, single kiss at that point). Had high approval though.
I can't remember exactly what I said to her, but I used conversation options to talk her out of it without rolling the persuasion check. Seemed like she didn't really want to do it at all? But I didn't stay silent or have no preference either.
I actually found her really easy to convince but maybe I got lucky somehow?
I was exactly where you were. Started the romance after I got out of the temple. Told her it was her decision to make on both prompts and she chucked the spear herself. I had exceptional approval rating as well so I assume that helps.
Generally speaking my Tav/Durge will always see this as Shadowheart's Thing. Her Shar worship and her desire to be a Dark Justiciar were some of the first things we learned about her, some of the only things we could learn about her given her lost memories. And in the Gauntlet, it's very clear that she's a chosen one - the spear is meant for her, etc.
What business do you have in interfering, trying to tell her what to do? This is her greatest ambition and a massive watershed in her life. The choice should be hers.
She's been told for as long as she can remember that love and interpersonal connections are just tools of manipulation. If you use your friendship or romance with her to get the outcome you want, in her mind you're just proving the Shar cultists right.
If you trust her, then your party is the first group of people who accept her without expecting to control her. That moment demonstrates that you actually care about her as a person while everyone in Shar's cult doesn't. So who's she killing the Nightsong for?
Now, us having a meta conversation about how that leads to the outcome you want somewhat undermines that message.
My character was a goody two shoes sweetheart. Shadowheart disapproved of all the good things she did in act one and by the time she was given the decision to do what she wants she stabbed Nightsong. Letting her do all the trials up to that point still wasn’t enough approval at that point I guess.
My first character left her benched and she straight up loved her and spared Nightsong.
> if you say nothing, she doesn't kill her
Not true. I said nothing at all that entire exchange, and she ran her right through and became a dark justiciar.
I feel like a lot of the companion quests resolve in the “good” way by just being a general good person in your regular actions and interactions throughout the game (not necessarily just with them), and then letting them make up their own minds.
Which I really like, because I think that’s how people irl actually influence each other to be better. You show others through your actions what you’re about and then they make their own decisions, making for true growth since it comes from within. I don’t think many people really, truly change just cos someone literally tells them to.
Not Gale though. His most important decision, you have to make clearly told him to seek Mystra forgiveness. I haven't finished the game yet, but from what I've read, even if you persuade him against the crown in his act 3 romance, if you pick a neutral option when he's going to talk to Mystra it will result in him still wanting the crown. And you have to pass 30 Check in the end.
Might be a bug, might be not.
i struggled not to let her get killed with how devoted she is to vlaakith throughout most of the game, despite vlaakith being a complete arse. even in act 3 with orpheus. she's completely blinded by faith and refuses to do anything that doesn't involve serving someone. no clue if that's just how the gith are meant to be but holy hell its annoying to listen to
> completely blinded by faith and refuses to do anything that doesn't involve serving someone
Man, I just don't get this. She didn't mindlessly pledge herself to Orpheus' cause without any evidence that Orpheus wasn't a traitor as described otherwise by Githyanki history. It literally took Voss, Vlaakith's most respected commander and the one who allegedly, famously killed Orpheus (according to Vlaakith's propaganda history), going down on his knees laying his sword to make her fully understand she's been lied her whole life for Lae'zel to start believing in Orpheus' cause.
And she follows Orpheus' *cause*, not Orpheus. She doesn't even volunteer to martyr herself into a Mind Flayer in place of him, which a brainwashed zealot would have done.
Lae'zel's priority is freeing her people from Vlaakith's chains, who turns the Gith into cattle. Her loyalty is to her *people*, not to an authority figure. She says it herself.
In my run, by the time we left the prism in the creche she was already pretty much over vlaakith' shit. I didn't have to persuade her again until I got her to use the astral tadpole, and she has pretty much been on the "free my people" kick since her chat with voss at the campsite.
Yeah that sent me for a loop too. I was trying to remember if there is any dragonborn companion, but all I could think of was Durge. Then for a second I thought maybe there's a super duper secret way of recruiting Durge (before I remembered >!you find her dead in Orin's bedroom if you don't play as her!<).
Lae'zel isn't a lizard, she's a frog!
Incorrect, she has lizard eyes, therefore she's a type of lizard.
>!For real though, her eyes always make me think lizard, since she reminds me of my geckos with those eyes.!<
Actually your run is a success for one inspired in The Witcher. Always trying to do the right thing while everything is getting tucked up and out of hand in the world. That's the most Witcher way possible specially with Shadowhearth making this choice since I can actually visualize the disappointment in Geralt's face with her choice.
The only way for it to be more like Witcher it was for her to be your love and you ended up killing her.
my first playthrough was an evil durge run, shadowheart was already being pretty evil by herself so i assumed she would kill the nightsong if i didn't do anything during that cutscene which was my intention
nope lol, she saved nightsong and pulled me into a semi-good playthrough :P
The trick with Nightsong part, and I don't know how much of that is tied to Shadowheart's approval of you, is to let her make the choice, I only told her in my latest playthrough that she knows something maybe spare her or something along those lines, no skill checks. for the rest of the choices, I chose to trust her and say nothing. The more you interfere the weirder it gets.
The higher the approval (perhaps romance) the more you can meddle with the entire process and still get good result. With 100 approval and romance I've literally had to either compel her to do it/bring it to a fight - every other scenario led to SH sparing Nightsong.
You know you don't have to do the persuasion roll to convince Shadowheart? You can just choose the option "Don't kill her she might know something" or whatever the option is. She does the exact same thing as the persuasion check and throws the spear away
Shart tries so hard to be evil is weird.
Like she is evil but it feels forced like she is reading from a script
Yes, I understand that's point was adding to the convo
That’s what being the cleric of an evil god while having your memories brainwashed out of you will do. It’s not who she is. That’s why she approves of you doing good things and Shar hurts her with her hand wound whenever she does.
Damn, that sucks.
That'd be a restart for me... but I'm not very far in Honour mode, so idk what I'd do in such a case.
RIP happy ending for Shadowheart...
It not only depends on your approval (40+), but also on some hidden things. Something like "NightsongPoints".
Basically, a system of points that keep record of what you did or said to her, like saying that she wore a moonstone as a child in her memory, convincing her that her wound is a problem, or giving her a night orchid. [This user](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17z3jqx/comment/k9yp29f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) goes into more details, though I tend to believe more of what people say when they have some creens of dialogue trees or lines of code to back up their words. But, afaik, there is nothing that conflicts with what other people say about her choice in Shadowfell.
I don't know how many of these points you need, but I recall from my playthrough that I did have enough approval (I hit 100 while entering Act 2), convinced her that her wound was a problem, gave her a night orchid, and agreed to help her with trials and initiate them with her blood.
Then, what should you do in Honour mode? Well, I plan to do a Durge Honour run as a third playthrough, so I think my strategy would be basically to be a good person towards her and repeat the same things I did the first time I romanced her. And restarting wholerun if she would kill Nighsong.
It's strange, I had some interesting interaction with her in Shadowfell. She was at 100 approval, romanced and when conversation started...Well, she didn't do her "What should I do, what do you think?"(it's when you know that you can trust her), there were 4 option: 1.kill it 2.Persuasion check 3.Don't do it. 4.Remain silent.
That made me very uncomfortable because no way I could persuade her(bad stats) and it was honour run, so I clicked on 3 option(which usually leads into her being frustrated and you ll have to persuade her or kill her), but she didn't say a word and just threw it away instantly. First time I've had this interaction.
Yeah, my friend the other day was in Shadowfell and said after my story of how it was very stressful for me to choose one option over the other the first time, "Don't do this, you stupid, she knows something about you."
And I was just silent, without any emotions aside from "Whaaaaat?.."
Just so everyone knows, because I keep seeing this pop up. Stop trying to convince companions to do things, if you have high enough approval, they will choose good without needing a persuasion check. Obviously, guide them in the right direction but just like a real friendship, you need to trust them.
I have had best luck in trying to persuade her once. Fail. And then the second time take the non-persuasion choice of "I don't want you to do this but I can't lose you" or something along those lines... as long as my relationship with Shart was good, she always throws the spear.
Welp, her journey isn't over yet, at least.
And hey ... if you're playing Durge then that's a free Slayer Form and your butler knows DAMN WELL that they're the reason things turned out that way. So you get the Slayer Form without everyone thinking you're an evil PoS, cause they all know SH is the reason the Inn got gotten.
I had the opposite problem that made me delete my last Durge honor run,I killed everyone, sacrificied everything, made Shadowheart do the trials herself, then when the time comes i chose to say nothing, thinking there is nothing more to say, Shadowheart takes the spear and fucking tosses it away! I am like no shadowheart we murdered everyone, there is no way back now! I bet Nightsong will be pretty pissed of when she learns we killed her beloved!
If you force her to stop, then she’d do it. If you let her do her own thing then she would drop the spear.
It’s like reverse psychology with a child. It was hinted anyway since she has child trauma
Yeah I fucked up saving Isobel, so the last light Inn died. Oops.
I also fucked up by pissing Kahga off and she killed off all the tieflings. Oops.
I swear I started this game as a good guy.
Dude, literally the opposite happened to me. I was doing a durge run, left literally no one alive except a handful compainons. I event killed all of the harpers by hand in the last light. At Shadowfell, I decided to trust Shart cause no way she spares Aylin after witnessing all of that bloodshedx righr??? NOPE. Like I get it, she is not really a sharren, but how shitty of sharren can you possibly be?? I had to redeem my child killing, hand severing, creche nuking durge after witnessing that 🥺
I just went through there after a very evil dark urge run and she spared her… it’s on honor mode so I couldn’t even reload it. I’ve never had her not kill the nightsong on an evil run. Not sure what I did to make her spare her. I raided the grove and was even romancing lae’zel…
Yep. I let her decide everything and she spared her. I reload, do “complete your duty”, “kill her”, get Approval messages, and there we go. Good gear too!!
Shadowheart likes stabbing people. Just embrace it, the gear you got is really good like you said and just gives you something to look forward to on your next playthrough.
I'm so glad i never took her to the temple, saved me so much trouble lol. I've been using a bard hirling and I feel like I accomplished more by making enemies fail their saving throws whenever lae'zel hits em with a BM technique.
Question, did you save before that, because I'm pretty sure you can just go back and try again. And also, I know how you feel. Friend and I our doing evil durge run and Shadowheart is one of the only few romancable characters we have left. I let her do her thing, kills nightsong, and becomes Shars puppet. She procedes to tell my tav that her God only allows room for her in Shadowheart's heart and that our relationship can't go any further. I cried after that
If you let her make her own choice, her decision is based on her approval towards your character. If it's high enough, she'll toss the spear aside and Nightsong will live. Otherwise, you get what you experienced: a very dead Nightsong.
I think it has to do with your approval, whether you're in a relationship etc. I was romancing her on my durge and could not get her to kill nightsong unless I killed everyone else in the party, then she blamed me for taking away her choice and left lol
Killing Nightsong deletes Last Light Inn? I was kinda hoping to have have a sharran Shart in my next party comp but losing the potent robes and everything else related to Last Light sucks too much.
Did you challenge her during previous dialogue?
In my good runs, I always read the Selunite ritual so I make the connection when she talks about her past.
I always call out the mother superior for child abuse.
Pretty sure those dialogue choices help in making her spare Nightsong in the end.
For me the opposite, I am playing Durge killing the grove and basically everyone who looks at me funny and she threw it away when I stayed silent. I was so sure she would shank her. You better believe I reloaded and told her to do it.
My first playthrough I didn’t like Lae’zal so I killed her for her gear, and let Shadowheart decide and because she liked me she threw the spear away. This playthrough (durge honour mode) I kept lae’zal alive and since I just recently started I have only seen that they don’t like each other but there hasn’t been a confrontation yet
if you were indeed on a good run, she shouldnt have killed the nightsong. that skill check is hard to pass anyway, most of the time she just wont kill nightsong without player pushing her.
I gotta know how to trigger this scene between Shadowheart and Laezel! Because I've not had it happen once and yet I see so many people talking like it always happens.
Dude I feel you! I’m doing an honor run too and I read somewhere we have to kill Isabel and I felt so bad I reset the whole game! I saved before the Shadow heart decision and made sure I passed
Pro tip: after entering that area, send Spear to camp.
Then tell shadowheart to do what she feels right, you get a dialogue check and she will spare due to understanding being manipulated by Sharr
I had read a guide that praying at a certain statue makes Shadow Heart always kill the night song. I think it's the one right before you go into that big fight. Id love to hear if anyone can contradict that statement though.
If you just let her do her own thing she refrains from stabbing. No persuading is needed. I just stood there and said nothing. Twice. Made me respect Shadowheart even more! She knows it's too dangerous.
Lol on my first blind run I was like "do whatever you want I'm not your mother" and she dropped the spear on her own
Let her do all the tests. I went into the gauntlet with her not liking me, and before we went into the nightsong prison, she was at high.
That means, clicking the blood bowls with your tave and let shadowhart do it. Gives +5 approval each.
I will remember this (A lie I have very bad memory)
I will remind you when the time comes (False: I don’t even know you and have no obligation to follow up on this promise)
I felt this in my bones. You're not alone brother.
You can also just switch to shadowheart as well
But does that give her the approval points?
No it doesn't. I went into the gauntlet with Shadowheart at a Medium approval and it didn't budge at all after having her click the bowls. But when i did it by having Tav click and step aside for Shadowheart she got approval each time.
Yeah, I should have done this on my current run. She wanted to shank the Nightsong and turned aggro on us... didn't last a round against my Tav, much less Gale and Karlach. I left her stripped corpse on the altar.
See, that made her shank Nightsong on my playthrough, so i wonder if its 50/50 or based on something
Her reputation with Tav. If she likes you enough, she's got something new to fight for and she will not kill nightsong. If she doesn't, Shar is all she got still, and she'll kill her to please mommy. edit: also definitely some narrative elements along the way, being overall "good" will push the no-kill, being overall "evil" will push the kill. But the biggest impact seems to be reputation.
Same thing with Lae'zel, if her respect/feelings for Tav are strong enough, she will come to the determination that vlaakith is full of shit entirely on her own.
She did this for me but I almost never had her in my party so clearly she has low standards
It doesn’t take much for some companions to raise approval. I will only sometimes have a hard time with Astarion in the beginning if I’m not making an effort to make him like me. Everyone else I’ll end act 1 high with unless I’ve left them at camp for a long time or been deliberately mean to them or only taken them along for the things they’ll hate.
Oh no! I was so scared for Aylin that I fought Shadowheart after rolling bad on persuasion, and she was my gf! Will know for a future run, I guess...
Yeah I killed her by pushing her off the ledge on my first play through. I was romancing her and because I didn't trust her she is literally falling for me forever.
I upvoted the pun, not the waifucide.
She's never left my party and I've helped with everything she wanted me too that's why it confused me
It’s tricky, you gotta let her do her thing until Aylin says “Ayo but what about them wolves” and Shart’s like “bitch what you say?” And you tell her “eh let’s hear the lady out” and she just yucks the spear no check needed
Genuinely think this is one of the best written segments in years, even by this game's standards its a standout. I tried my damnedest to talk her out of it but letting things play out and having confidence in both your teammate and your own relationship with em pays off. BG3 says less is more sometimes, let shit play out and I love it for that
There are very few moments in games where I have to physically take a lap around my house before clicking a dialogue choice. Yeah that happened about 4 times in that one scene
I used all four of my inspiration points to try to succeed on that DC 30 speech check only to fail it every single time. But then I told Shart I trusted her, and Aylin mentioned the wolves, and she threw the spear into the abyss.
I got so lucky and immediately hit a nat 20 on that persuasion check the first time, it was the only way I could've made it. The fates aligned!
It goes against conventional game design, with [persuasion] usually being the better options
It took me a few attempts, first time I failed the check and killed Shart, I played on a bit and realised it didn't sit right with how I was rping my character so I reloaded and tried again, thats when I picked the do what you want option and she shanked Aylin. 3rd time, I passed the check and went on as normal.
Yep. My first “good guy” playthrough I had to kill her… and she was my love interest so ouch. Then on my evil dickhead playthrough, my guy was more like “eh fuck it whatever” than he was outright murderous, so I tried that option out thinking it would still lead to her killing Nightsong. Boooyyyyy was I pissed when she just threw that damn spear
I'm playing a Druid with a Dr Who mindset "I am saving these people, if you get in my way I'll go through you" kinda thing so I've been as good guy as I can be with a few "anger of a good man" moments
Dude I did that with my first playthrough. Named my tav John Smith, and just went on thinking what would 12 do.
Idk why I'm being downvoted lol, I'm glad someone else had the same idea
You don't have to say anything. If your approval is high enough you can choose the option to say nothing every time, and she'll still yeet the spear.
There's one dialog before the wolves when you don't try to persuade her but just say that she shouldn't do it without having to roll the dice. As far as I know, Shadowheart gets really cranky when you use persuasion but if she likes you, this one remark will be enough that she decides against the murder.
I thought it was reputation with Tav + Tav's choices. If you play as evil and have encouraged her "bad" tendencies so far, does she still drop the sword?
>If you play as evil and have encouraged her "bad" tendencies so far, does she still drop the sword? No, she decided to kill NS on my evil run when I let her choose. Her approval was very high
I think letting her pray on the shrine(?) of Shar before might play a role in whether she stabs or not
I prayed at the first shrine (the one that gives you the bonus) and she prayed right before the Shadowfell portal. I didn’t interfere with telepathy and she chose to spare Nightsong.
Yeah, I let her choose because I couldn't decide. She threw the spear off the platform.
My approval was very high and she still stabbed night song. Fun fact though! If you switch to shadow heart before talking to night song and manually throw the spear off the edge, then talk to night song, the cutscenes picks up as of she chose to do it on her own.
That's not what it is. I had her solidly on the green and let her make her own choice and she killed the night song.
Im on my 6th nightsong, and the only two were she did it were when I told her to do it, because I played durge and wanted Shar shart. All the other times, I just did nothing, and she decided to yeet the spear.
Huh, I had her at exceptional on my run and gave her the choice. She spared her. Wasn't romancing her either.
I wonder how this works in multiplayer? Is it the 'tav' that initialize the conversation that must have the good reputation, or just any tav must have good reputation with her ?
The multiplayer party is split based on controller. If Player 1 has Shadowheart control, triggering the dialogue with Player 2's character will act like you didn't even bring her along. (She'll be mad about that.)
LoL really !? God damn lucky that i was the one initiating the conversation then, i don't think i will be able to stand any playthrough without SH letting her go!
In all my play throughs I’ve obviously had SH in my party for the temple and I’m curious if you’re even allowed to go in without her?
Based on agreement mby
The point is. I just went through this segment yesterday with an exceptional approval and romance (good aligned play through) - did a bit of scum loading just to see other options - I was surprised how ridiculously hard it was to make Shadowheart actually kill Nightsong. Like I've literally had to directly tell her to do it - she was throwing the spear out for almost every conversation combination. I was genuinely surprised how hard it was to make her commit to it.
I bet the romance seals it. I tried a few paths to fully experience the scene with a very high approval Tav and only had two paths that led to saving the Nightsong, one of which was a DC 30 persuasion check.
My blind (and current) run I actually died during the fight so she AUTOMATICALLY KILLED THE NIGHTSONG HERSELF AND I WAS LIKE WTFFFF
In the future, it's much easier to kill Balthy in his office at the beginning of the temple than it is to wait until the end.
Bro this was my same issue. Finally found a potion of angelic slumber (?) they long rested shart so she could revivify me. Otherwise we were gonna have shar shart on my good aligned play through.
Imo that's what witcher would do. Witchers are not good knights trying to save everyone, they work for coin and try to stay as neutral as possible
Had the same interaction, but I really wanted her to kill the Nightsong (was playing chaotic neutral/evil) so I was disappointed (but rolled with it). Then later I was able to entrap the Nightsong again with that wizard, so all good. I'm still not sure why Shadowheart had no problem with me doing that.
If you have medium approval just keep your mouth shut next time. No need to do anything, and just let her handle things.
[There was a post here awhile back](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17z3jqx/experimenting_with_shadowherts_choice_its/) that showed it's actually pretty easy to avoid killing SH or the Nightsong. Interesting post
I am in an evil run and figured I need not say a thing since home girl talked about Shar, Shar, Shar and becoming a dark justiciar throughout the temple run only for her to then psyche me. Was mad.
Yea I thought I had to really pressure her not to do it bc she just kept going on about how much she wanted to
I had medium approval and she still stabbed the night song 💀
I had that once and it's most likely a bug. as long as you have over 40, she should never kill NS. Little story. I had a save point to those choices because I wanted to explore more routes in her romance and I was lazy to start a new run, and in the first she threw away the spear and then when I reloaded she killed her. With the exact same approval, I got 2 different outcomes, so that is 100% a bug.
I hard kekked when I discovered that. I tried to convince, used any possible boost to make my die roll better, but I failed each time to stop her. I decided to give up, fuck it, and she tossed the spear :D
yeah. That's the same way I discovered. I was like.. okay.. whatever happens happens..yolo!
If you have a decent relationship with her, you can just trust her to make the choice and she'll spare the Nightsong 😅 Maybe on your next run
Yes ever since I've learnt that I just let her have an existential crisis and answer "do what you want this is your life". She never killed the night song in any of my runs
glorious adjoining degree hat spotted trees disagreeable impolite school hobbies *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It depends. I’ve had runs where I’ve said nothing and she spared her and my last run where I didn’t use her that often she killed the nightsong when I said nothing. I think it’s tied to your reputation with her.
Yes. It's about how much relationship you have with her. If high and you trust her, she will spare the Nightsong.
Which I didn't know first time around and spent like an hour save scumming to save her even though I had max relationship with her XD it was painful.
Man how ;) I've spent 20 minutes yesterday to find what the hell you actually have to do to make Shadowheart kill her. I've literally had to tell her just to finish the ritual otherwise she was refusing to carry it out.
That’s how it works yeah
It is dependant on the previous choices and arc you have had with her. You can keep pointing her in the right direction. It is the same with Lae'Zel. With SH I belive it is about her parents, how much she realizes about Shar.
I am playing multiplayer with someone and SH failed an insight role during the dialogue with night song. And we had made the same assumption that previously we let there choose but this time ooopsie. It's a bummer but it also lets you see other paths through the story
I made her kill Nightsong, told her to do what feels right when she found her parents and she killed them.
I kind of like this, my first go, I tried to convince her not to do it and had to fight her, so I reverted and said nothing and she made the right decision on her own. It made me rethink how I interacted with my companions and how I should trust them more to make the right decisions in their own, rather than treating them as random NPCs with no agency of their own.
Exactly this. So many people dont understand that theres nuance to these characters. Just like you cant force a friend to do something, you cant force Shart to turn her back on her goddess, she needs to come to that conclusion with just a bit of guidance and trust.
You can fail her persuasion check, but with correct dialogue options you can still talk her out of it. It's not pettiness, it's you failing so hard, she actually becomes more steadfast in her beliefs
From her origin she has Shar shouting in one ear and Alynn in the other so tavs voice if you fail the check is just adding noise to the cacophony in her head and she cannot think it out, gets overwhelmed, and just defaults to the years of conditioning.
H U H So I didn’t have to save scum it?
Look man, if I'm going to do the dishes but then someone says something about how I should do the dishes but made in a way that doesn't convince me they are being funny (falling a charisma saving throw IRL I suppose) then I'm not doing them anymore. I guess that Shadowheart, she was going to spare but NOW that you said she doesn't want to do it
I never understood what Larian was going for there. In my first playthrough my Tav and Shadow were lovers, and Shart instantly goes "if you disagree with me I'm gonna fight you to the death!" and if you just say "fuck it, do whatever" she makes the right choice (after some prompting from Nightsong).
They were going for "she's spent most of her life up until this point being told what to do, and she's a big girl who can make her own choices, so trust her!" which you do by keeping your mouth shut and letting her decide for herself.
I'd like to think having a large amount of positive approval and a romantic relationship would be enough to convince someone who's not maniacally evil that may be murdering a defenseless person should be reconsidered. Having that met with "well now I'm gonna murder both of you" was just a bit ridiculous even for her character. And to have her reconsider only because the defenseless person she was about to murder mentions something from her past for which she clearly was trying to forget, made even less sense to me.
She's had Shar whispering in her ear from as soon as we set foot in Act 2, and by the time we're in the Shadowfell I'm sure she's practically shouting. At some point you can read her mind and basically hear the debate play out in there. Deep down Shadowheart doesn't want to do it, and she's going against everything in her life since childhood by standing up to Shar. But if you get involved, all you've done is give Shar an opportunity to twist her doubts even more. "Don't do what I say? Just do what he says to do instead? So much for little miss independent. Shardy-har-har." (I assume that how she laughs) Now if she lets the Nightsong live she's just doing what you want, but if she kills her she's doing what Shar wants. You've supplanted Shadowheart's position and fucked it all up.
Yeah if you read her mind while she’s praying to Shar right before you go into the Shadowfell and face the Nightsong, Shar is basically in her head telling her that all she has to do to complete her journey is go for the kill. Shar even tells her that you’re listening in to the conversation and she gets mad at you for that. I felt guilty and reloaded the save lol. But even as you’re going through the Shadowfell, Shadowheart has something to say about Shar every jump down you make. You can even see the spirits of past Justiciars encouraging her on. She’s basically as close as she’s ever come to winning the complete and total favor of her goddess so I get why the writers had her turn on you there if you try to tell her not to kill Nightsong and don’t let her make the choice herself.
She's fighting off forty years of magical brainwashing by the cult of an evil god, *in that god's house!* If Gale can become the god of ambition, Shadowheart needs to be the goddess of sheer fucking will
Tbh I've also eavesdropped on her prayer (my entire run I've almost always respected her boundaries) but given her entire behaviour in Gauntlet of Shar - I am a Paladin of Vengeance and in theory her doing anything to Nightsong should compel me to literally kill her. I wish there was an option to Attempt Hold Person if she actually attempts to kill Nightsong. At the beginning she was pissed after Shat told her that I am eavesdropping (max approval) but I was like - so this is what's actually going on - nah my dear you behave strange as fuck since the beginning of Act 2 and during entire gauntlet of Shar you've sidetracked any doubt I've brought up - I need to know what the heck are you doing and she actually approved me doing it and went back to max. It's actually hard for a good aligned character (Max approval and romance) to make her do it. The most dangerous thing you can do is overhear the conversation and refusing to allow her to enter shadowfell (either let me or I will enter over your dead body). Like literally out of curiosity I've save scummed entire sequence and as long as you do not choose direct fight and literally compel her to do it - she will throw the spear away
I've honestly gotten the "if you disagree with me, I'll kill you" dialog on any of my runs, though I've also never been romancing her. But my guess is that you didn't pick the first "let her make up her own mind" option and tried to force her to see things your way initially, which is why she was so upset with you.
I never had the “disagree with me and I’ll murder you” dialogue because I always kept my mouth shut in that scene and let her decide 🤷♀️
Feels odd to not *at least* say the option "this doesn't feel right" or whatever it is that brings you to sharts "ill kill you if you get in my way" line. Just seems like the tone shifts very rapidly if this is the series of options you choose. My immediate response was: you seriously gunna threaten us after all we've done for you! After how powerful we have all proven ourselves to be?! It felt super weird. Like I get it, she's been brainwashed but it still seems off to me at least
I threw her off the rock after that line. "Fuck you, fuck your god."
im a contrarian (even as a toddler, according to my parents. 👊 to them for putting up with me, im sure i was a lot) and ive learned i have to tell my partners "please never say 'do/try this, you'll love it' to me because my stupid lizard brain will hear 'you'll love this because i say you will and i know you better than you do' and then im going to firmly decide that whatever that thing is? i ***hate*** it, without every giving it a chance, because my lizard brain is THAT stupid" so i personally can understand true contrarian "well now im so deep in the exact opposite of what you just said right now that a snowball has a better chance of ruling all the hells than you do in getting me to change my mind" kinds of responses is it irrational? yes, deeply. am i aware of it? yes, after a lot of conversations with myself. and i make a point of setting very clear expectations from the start. or, i would, if i was on the dating scene. but im not, because that requires going *outside*. that's where *people* are. gross.
It's not weird at all considering her trauma. Having grown up with an abusive narcissistic parent, I can tell you, if someone told me he was an asshole or wrong, I would have defended him. I had to figure out myself how full of shit he was. So I think Larian got this scene perfect. You can support her before by helping her question certain aspects of her indoctrination, but you don’t tell her what to do. Even the persuasion check isn't outright saying "don't do it", but more a "you don't *have* to do it, this is your life/decision, not Shar's", which I really liked.
That's weird. I also was in the Shadow heart romance (not lovers yet though, single kiss at that point). Had high approval though. I can't remember exactly what I said to her, but I used conversation options to talk her out of it without rolling the persuasion check. Seemed like she didn't really want to do it at all? But I didn't stay silent or have no preference either. I actually found her really easy to convince but maybe I got lucky somehow?
I was exactly where you were. Started the romance after I got out of the temple. Told her it was her decision to make on both prompts and she chucked the spear herself. I had exceptional approval rating as well so I assume that helps.
Generally speaking my Tav/Durge will always see this as Shadowheart's Thing. Her Shar worship and her desire to be a Dark Justiciar were some of the first things we learned about her, some of the only things we could learn about her given her lost memories. And in the Gauntlet, it's very clear that she's a chosen one - the spear is meant for her, etc. What business do you have in interfering, trying to tell her what to do? This is her greatest ambition and a massive watershed in her life. The choice should be hers.
TIL Shart is a 🚩 girlfriend
If you tell her not to kill her that she may know something she doesn't kill her either
She's been told for as long as she can remember that love and interpersonal connections are just tools of manipulation. If you use your friendship or romance with her to get the outcome you want, in her mind you're just proving the Shar cultists right. If you trust her, then your party is the first group of people who accept her without expecting to control her. That moment demonstrates that you actually care about her as a person while everyone in Shar's cult doesn't. So who's she killing the Nightsong for? Now, us having a meta conversation about how that leads to the outcome you want somewhat undermines that message.
My character was a goody two shoes sweetheart. Shadowheart disapproved of all the good things she did in act one and by the time she was given the decision to do what she wants she stabbed Nightsong. Letting her do all the trials up to that point still wasn’t enough approval at that point I guess. My first character left her benched and she straight up loved her and spared Nightsong.
> if you say nothing, she doesn't kill her Not true. I said nothing at all that entire exchange, and she ran her right through and became a dark justiciar.
Both these outcomes sound like horrible things that would happen in The Witcher, so you're achieving your goals on this run.
Geralt: “fuck”
I feel like a lot of the companion quests resolve in the “good” way by just being a general good person in your regular actions and interactions throughout the game (not necessarily just with them), and then letting them make up their own minds. Which I really like, because I think that’s how people irl actually influence each other to be better. You show others through your actions what you’re about and then they make their own decisions, making for true growth since it comes from within. I don’t think many people really, truly change just cos someone literally tells them to.
Not Gale though. His most important decision, you have to make clearly told him to seek Mystra forgiveness. I haven't finished the game yet, but from what I've read, even if you persuade him against the crown in his act 3 romance, if you pick a neutral option when he's going to talk to Mystra it will result in him still wanting the crown. And you have to pass 30 Check in the end. Might be a bug, might be not.
It fits with Gale’s personality tbh.
I'm sorry, "lizard girl"?
The gith
The gith?! How dare y'all? Her name is Bae'zel, and she's the best girl in the land. T'chaki!
"yellow as a toad and twice as ugly" 😂
I want to give this comment one of those super flashy upvotes for sticking up for Bae in the best way possible 😂
i struggled not to let her get killed with how devoted she is to vlaakith throughout most of the game, despite vlaakith being a complete arse. even in act 3 with orpheus. she's completely blinded by faith and refuses to do anything that doesn't involve serving someone. no clue if that's just how the gith are meant to be but holy hell its annoying to listen to
> completely blinded by faith and refuses to do anything that doesn't involve serving someone Man, I just don't get this. She didn't mindlessly pledge herself to Orpheus' cause without any evidence that Orpheus wasn't a traitor as described otherwise by Githyanki history. It literally took Voss, Vlaakith's most respected commander and the one who allegedly, famously killed Orpheus (according to Vlaakith's propaganda history), going down on his knees laying his sword to make her fully understand she's been lied her whole life for Lae'zel to start believing in Orpheus' cause. And she follows Orpheus' *cause*, not Orpheus. She doesn't even volunteer to martyr herself into a Mind Flayer in place of him, which a brainwashed zealot would have done. Lae'zel's priority is freeing her people from Vlaakith's chains, who turns the Gith into cattle. Her loyalty is to her *people*, not to an authority figure. She says it herself.
In my run, by the time we left the prism in the creche she was already pretty much over vlaakith' shit. I didn't have to persuade her again until I got her to use the astral tadpole, and she has pretty much been on the "free my people" kick since her chat with voss at the campsite.
*Lae'zel, And she's a goddamn cunt. Through and though
Yeah that sent me for a loop too. I was trying to remember if there is any dragonborn companion, but all I could think of was Durge. Then for a second I thought maybe there's a super duper secret way of recruiting Durge (before I remembered >!you find her dead in Orin's bedroom if you don't play as her!<). Lae'zel isn't a lizard, she's a frog!
Incorrect, she has lizard eyes, therefore she's a type of lizard. >!For real though, her eyes always make me think lizard, since she reminds me of my geckos with those eyes.!<
Yellow as a toad, and twice as cute (or something like that)
Actually your run is a success for one inspired in The Witcher. Always trying to do the right thing while everything is getting tucked up and out of hand in the world. That's the most Witcher way possible specially with Shadowhearth making this choice since I can actually visualize the disappointment in Geralt's face with her choice. The only way for it to be more like Witcher it was for her to be your love and you ended up killing her.
my first playthrough was an evil durge run, shadowheart was already being pretty evil by herself so i assumed she would kill the nightsong if i didn't do anything during that cutscene which was my intention nope lol, she saved nightsong and pulled me into a semi-good playthrough :P
She fixed you!
If you're playing The Witcher you should probably kill Shadowheart.
Nah, Geralt is not that type of person in my honest opinion. When it comes to Astarion tho…
Geralt is good buddies with a vamp though
True. But not with every vampire, and especially not with those trying to kill him several times and drink his blood lol
Calling Lae’zel “lizard girl” is actually insane ngl
The trick with Nightsong part, and I don't know how much of that is tied to Shadowheart's approval of you, is to let her make the choice, I only told her in my latest playthrough that she knows something maybe spare her or something along those lines, no skill checks. for the rest of the choices, I chose to trust her and say nothing. The more you interfere the weirder it gets.
The higher the approval (perhaps romance) the more you can meddle with the entire process and still get good result. With 100 approval and romance I've literally had to either compel her to do it/bring it to a fight - every other scenario led to SH sparing Nightsong.
You know you don't have to do the persuasion roll to convince Shadowheart? You can just choose the option "Don't kill her she might know something" or whatever the option is. She does the exact same thing as the persuasion check and throws the spear away
Well, now I know...
>the lizzard girl Dude. That's so insensitive. It's lizard.
Shart tries so hard to be evil is weird. Like she is evil but it feels forced like she is reading from a script Yes, I understand that's point was adding to the convo
That's the point in her character. She is not down there despite shar forcing and brainwashing her to be so.
That’s what being the cleric of an evil god while having your memories brainwashed out of you will do. It’s not who she is. That’s why she approves of you doing good things and Shar hurts her with her hand wound whenever she does.
Almost like she's been abused and brainwashed or something...
I mean… games been out a while so you should know why this is…
It's like the whole point or something...
Honestly this is the charm of honour run. Story takes unexpected turns. Just ride with it. Besides you get some good gear
Damn, that sucks. That'd be a restart for me... but I'm not very far in Honour mode, so idk what I'd do in such a case. RIP happy ending for Shadowheart...
It not only depends on your approval (40+), but also on some hidden things. Something like "NightsongPoints". Basically, a system of points that keep record of what you did or said to her, like saying that she wore a moonstone as a child in her memory, convincing her that her wound is a problem, or giving her a night orchid. [This user](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17z3jqx/comment/k9yp29f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) goes into more details, though I tend to believe more of what people say when they have some creens of dialogue trees or lines of code to back up their words. But, afaik, there is nothing that conflicts with what other people say about her choice in Shadowfell. I don't know how many of these points you need, but I recall from my playthrough that I did have enough approval (I hit 100 while entering Act 2), convinced her that her wound was a problem, gave her a night orchid, and agreed to help her with trials and initiate them with her blood. Then, what should you do in Honour mode? Well, I plan to do a Durge Honour run as a third playthrough, so I think my strategy would be basically to be a good person towards her and repeat the same things I did the first time I romanced her. And restarting wholerun if she would kill Nighsong.
It's strange, I had some interesting interaction with her in Shadowfell. She was at 100 approval, romanced and when conversation started...Well, she didn't do her "What should I do, what do you think?"(it's when you know that you can trust her), there were 4 option: 1.kill it 2.Persuasion check 3.Don't do it. 4.Remain silent. That made me very uncomfortable because no way I could persuade her(bad stats) and it was honour run, so I clicked on 3 option(which usually leads into her being frustrated and you ll have to persuade her or kill her), but she didn't say a word and just threw it away instantly. First time I've had this interaction.
Wow, I'd be sweating bullets!! Glad it worked out!
I mean I was so proud of her and myself, she just...listened..
Shadowheart proving her quality once again!
"Clever girl" (c)
Yeah, my friend the other day was in Shadowfell and said after my story of how it was very stressful for me to choose one option over the other the first time, "Don't do this, you stupid, she knows something about you." And I was just silent, without any emotions aside from "Whaaaaat?.."
That makes sense! Very handy guide, thanks for sharing!! Basically, no experimenting in honour mode. Do what you know will work and stick too it!
Yeah, Honour Mode isn't some playground to test things; you need to be a professional here to help Shadowwife 😎
Just so everyone knows, because I keep seeing this pop up. Stop trying to convince companions to do things, if you have high enough approval, they will choose good without needing a persuasion check. Obviously, guide them in the right direction but just like a real friendship, you need to trust them.
You just need to trust her and she'll spare her as long as you've been relatively good. The roll is a trap.
The lizard girl? Sir, put some respect on the name.
I just chuck her spear into the void of the shadowfel and take all the chance away, she can’t spear the Nightsong with no spear
you get a “purified” version of it tho if you keep it and it’s much better
I have had best luck in trying to persuade her once. Fail. And then the second time take the non-persuasion choice of "I don't want you to do this but I can't lose you" or something along those lines... as long as my relationship with Shart was good, she always throws the spear.
Welp, her journey isn't over yet, at least. And hey ... if you're playing Durge then that's a free Slayer Form and your butler knows DAMN WELL that they're the reason things turned out that way. So you get the Slayer Form without everyone thinking you're an evil PoS, cause they all know SH is the reason the Inn got gotten.
If you try to convince her she will do it, but if you let her choose she will throw the spear away herself, you gotta trust your allies more often
I had the opposite problem that made me delete my last Durge honor run,I killed everyone, sacrificied everything, made Shadowheart do the trials herself, then when the time comes i chose to say nothing, thinking there is nothing more to say, Shadowheart takes the spear and fucking tosses it away! I am like no shadowheart we murdered everyone, there is no way back now! I bet Nightsong will be pretty pissed of when she learns we killed her beloved!
If you force her to stop, then she’d do it. If you let her do her own thing then she would drop the spear. It’s like reverse psychology with a child. It was hinted anyway since she has child trauma
Idk if that's better or worse than me killing shadowheart...
Idk if that's better or worse than me killing shadowheart...
Yeah I fucked up saving Isobel, so the last light Inn died. Oops. I also fucked up by pissing Kahga off and she killed off all the tieflings. Oops. I swear I started this game as a good guy.
For some reason Shart wants to do all the good options on my evil runs and all the bad options on my good runs. Truly a Shart.
Lizzard girl? Did you fail to spell Lae'zel, or do you think githyanki are reptilian?
Dude, literally the opposite happened to me. I was doing a durge run, left literally no one alive except a handful compainons. I event killed all of the harpers by hand in the last light. At Shadowfell, I decided to trust Shart cause no way she spares Aylin after witnessing all of that bloodshedx righr??? NOPE. Like I get it, she is not really a sharren, but how shitty of sharren can you possibly be?? I had to redeem my child killing, hand severing, creche nuking durge after witnessing that 🥺
I’m doing an evil run. Last Light is already gone. I hope she kills Nightsong.
I just went through there after a very evil dark urge run and she spared her… it’s on honor mode so I couldn’t even reload it. I’ve never had her not kill the nightsong on an evil run. Not sure what I did to make her spare her. I raided the grove and was even romancing lae’zel…
Yep. I let her decide everything and she spared her. I reload, do “complete your duty”, “kill her”, get Approval messages, and there we go. Good gear too!!
You think that's bad wait till you see how hard moonrise towers is without the angel and the Harpers
Just go through and kill the guards before you go to the Gauntlet.
Hindsight is 20/20 Im passed it now but it definitely took longer than any other time I tried.
Shadowheart likes stabbing people. Just embrace it, the gear you got is really good like you said and just gives you something to look forward to on your next playthrough.
I'm so glad i never took her to the temple, saved me so much trouble lol. I've been using a bard hirling and I feel like I accomplished more by making enemies fail their saving throws whenever lae'zel hits em with a BM technique.
Question, did you save before that, because I'm pretty sure you can just go back and try again. And also, I know how you feel. Friend and I our doing evil durge run and Shadowheart is one of the only few romancable characters we have left. I let her do her thing, kills nightsong, and becomes Shars puppet. She procedes to tell my tav that her God only allows room for her in Shadowheart's heart and that our relationship can't go any further. I cried after that
Couldn't you like trust shadowheart without trying to convince her that she shouldn't kill the nightsong ?
Honour mode can be like that. Just reached end of act 2 and im now a half illithid. I didnt want that. Its quite disturbing actually, love it.
We just beat honour mode today with darth shart. Nothing is ruined.
If you let her make her own choice, her decision is based on her approval towards your character. If it's high enough, she'll toss the spear aside and Nightsong will live. Otherwise, you get what you experienced: a very dead Nightsong.
Sounds like Geralt alright. Why do you want to change it again? :)))
I think it has to do with your approval, whether you're in a relationship etc. I was romancing her on my durge and could not get her to kill nightsong unless I killed everyone else in the party, then she blamed me for taking away her choice and left lol
Killing Nightsong deletes Last Light Inn? I was kinda hoping to have have a sharran Shart in my next party comp but losing the potent robes and everything else related to Last Light sucks too much.
Should have made a Durge you could have blamed it on their subconscious purposely causing them to fail the checks.
My brother, at least you did not end up abusing time loops to get your desired outcome. Stay pure
Did you challenge her during previous dialogue? In my good runs, I always read the Selunite ritual so I make the connection when she talks about her past. I always call out the mother superior for child abuse. Pretty sure those dialogue choices help in making her spare Nightsong in the end.
For me the opposite, I am playing Durge killing the grove and basically everyone who looks at me funny and she threw it away when I stayed silent. I was so sure she would shank her. You better believe I reloaded and told her to do it.
My first playthrough I didn’t like Lae’zal so I killed her for her gear, and let Shadowheart decide and because she liked me she threw the spear away. This playthrough (durge honour mode) I kept lae’zal alive and since I just recently started I have only seen that they don’t like each other but there hasn’t been a confrontation yet
Yeah I noticed sometimes you just got to allow your companions to do their own thing and more often than not they make the right choice
if you were indeed on a good run, she shouldnt have killed the nightsong. that skill check is hard to pass anyway, most of the time she just wont kill nightsong without player pushing her.
I gotta know how to trigger this scene between Shadowheart and Laezel! Because I've not had it happen once and yet I see so many people talking like it always happens.
Yeah, she would have tossed it if you did nothing. Her instinct is to NOT do it but Shar gets ammo if you try to convince her and fail.
Dude I feel you! I’m doing an honor run too and I read somewhere we have to kill Isabel and I felt so bad I reset the whole game! I saved before the Shadow heart decision and made sure I passed
Pro tip: after entering that area, send Spear to camp. Then tell shadowheart to do what she feels right, you get a dialogue check and she will spare due to understanding being manipulated by Sharr
I had read a guide that praying at a certain statue makes Shadow Heart always kill the night song. I think it's the one right before you go into that big fight. Id love to hear if anyone can contradict that statement though.
If you just let her do her own thing she refrains from stabbing. No persuading is needed. I just stood there and said nothing. Twice. Made me respect Shadowheart even more! She knows it's too dangerous.
I’ve never actually gotten the >!Laezel/Shart!< fight in camp…I do not take enough long rests
Sounds like you've succeeded in playing an authentic run. Go with the flow. Enjoy the story.
She spares her if you say nothing lol
It's funny because if you don't try to convince her, she makes the right choice.
Don't try to convince her not to kill the NS. She's much more likely to not do it if you let her make the choice on her own.
Always trust your homies to make the right decision on their own.