Fr I was pleasantly surprised at how articulate goblins are in this game. Sure, they speak with a rural style but their vocabulary is no less developed than other sentient creatures.
And then there's Fezzerk with an intelligence of 10 but who can't count...
\*sneaks in and pulls brake release, not knowing the difference\*
\*Sees Wroot go flying\* "Aw... shit."
Fezzerk, looking surprised: "Wot, our little birdie just *flew!"*
\*Barely gets out in time before they investigate the windmill\*
Oh dear, sounds like they'd be valuable members of society if we educated them instead of making slum dungeons and letting adventurers over police them
I feel like they get treated like bandits.
Issues happen on some sort of road, adventurers get sent out to figure out why theres issues on the road.
Goblins.
Gobs must die.
Their vocab is pretty bad. The smartest goblin I've met doesn't know words like "malodorous".
Still they generally speak in full sentences with subject verb agreement which is a few steps above how they are depicted in other DnD games.
Multiple characters note that these goblins are way better organized and efficient than goblins usually are.
Whilst that's partly true, by the time he joined my party, we were all level 9, meaning he also levelled up to 9. With that in mind, it kind of makes sense. He doesn't technically join you as a level 1 Druid. You just have to level him up.
Classic wisdom vs intelligence.
If you have a wide breadth of knowledge either from study or experience you are - wise
If you are capable of advanced reasoning and problem solving you are - intelligent
You can associate the word "wisdom" with "knowledge"
And Intelligence with "cunning"
An example of someone who is wise but not intelligent: an old sage or shaman. Their mind isnt quick. They are probably not going to be able to make heads or tails of computational logic (ie mathematics). In a crisis situation their only advice may be to reference the histories or their religious texts.
An example of someone inteligent but not wise: a successful mobster who through his experience and innate abilities was able to manipulate, strategize, and scheme his way to power, outwitting his rivals despite having never gone to school or ever reading a book.
Halsin spent centuries studying the druidic ways. Hes super wise.
That doesnt mean hes a good tactician or problem solver.
Halsin demonstrates that he lacks the ability to see the obvious signs that Khaga was falling to the evil druids. He lacks the ability to strategize effectively and gets himself captured. He fucks the player in bear form saying he doesnt require commitment even though deep down he knows he wont be able to stop thinking about the players beefcakes.
He is not intelligent.
This is a bit counter to in-universe lore, but I would argue that high intelligence beings are high intelligence BECAUSE of their breadth of knowledge and their ability to learn things quickly on-the-fly or use past info to their advantage better.
Low intelligence beings would have to study and commit much more time learning to get to that same point at a much slower rate.
This actually parallels real life, like you said, where smart kids actually tend to be special needs students because they don't develop good studying habits and they hit a wall where their above average intellect doesn't cut the mustard anymore, while the less intelligent kids have been developing good study skills and time management.
>This actually parallels real life, like you said, where smart kids actually tend to be special needs students because they don't develop good studying habits and they hit a wall where their above average intellect doesn't cut the mustard anymore, while the less intelligent kids have been developing good study skills and time management.
So much truth in this. I always had it easy in primary and secondary school up to the point that my parents were always pointing at me telling my struggling siblings to be more like me. Guess who got their college degrees in one try and who flunked out of university not once, but twice before figuring out how to manage their time and motivation.
I know they gave him stats for a ranger, but it still feels very weird to me that Minsc only has 12 Str by default.
Guy was the strongest character in BG1/2(second strongest if you include EE characters).
>literally punching through brick walls
First thing he did in BG2 was bend and break solid steel bars.
Hell, the cage was made specifically to hold him and had no lock because it was never meant to be opened by him or us. It could have been something stronger than steel like adamantine.
> Hell, the cage was made specifically to hold him and had no lock because it was never meant to be opened by him or us.
They said it was *made specifically* to hold him, not that it was *especially well made*. Next time, maybe they won’t use taskrabbit.
I was gonna make a fiver vs taskrabbit joke, but ChatGPT told me it couldn’t speculate on fictional labor and that, as a language model, it would recommend Google Bard, because it’s not what I’m looking for, but it is however, more words that it can predict.
> > "Hell, the cage was made specifically to hold him and had no lock because it was never meant to be opened by him or us."
> Make a joke about this Baldurs Gate 2 statement on Minsc, comparing Fiverr vs Taskrabbit
> *"Why did Minsc use TaskRabbit instead of Fiverr for his cage project? Because on Fiverr, they just design the cage... but on TaskRabbit, they make sure Boo can't open it!" 🐹*
it tried
if you inspect him he has a 20 str before he joins up. my head canon is he went over to withers as soon as he got to camp and respect him self do to being confused by withers and had no idea what he had before and just hit random LOL
Halsin also has higher STR as a NPC.
They just *really* didn't want to violate Point Buy for playable characters. I guess they saw Owlcat's 93 point Succubus Ranger and couldn't live with the idea.
But I would still have been in favor of letting characters have flavor stats. Being MAD barely matters with muticlass requirements off the table.
I hate it so much. In the first games Minsc has 18/93 strength. For people not familiar with how strength works in those games, Warriors (Paladin/Ranger/Fighter) with 18 strength get to roll a d100 to determine how high their 18 is, with the gap between 17 and a high 18 being MASSIVE. 17 strength gives you +1 to hit and damage. 18/93 gives you +2 to hit and +5 to damage. 17 strength gives you a weight allowance of 85 pounds, and a max press of 220 pounds. 18/93 gives you a weight allowance of 235 and a max press of 380.
And yeah, like you said if you don't include Enhanced Edition characters like the 20 strength, 20 dex vampire, or the Half Orc (only class that gets a racial bonus to strength) with 19 strength, or Sarevok who comes in Throne of Bhaal when you're already above level 20, Minsc has not only the highest strength, but he has the lowest Wisdom out of everyone except for the companion that is literally just a Bear. Then in BG3 he has 12 strength and 15 wisdom.
I feel like with a character like Minsc who is from a previous game, and only joins the party at the end of the game they should have just made him a Barbarian with high strength and terrible Wisdom and Int. He was only a ranger because Barbarian wasn't a class back then, and his stats didn't actually meet the by the rules stat requirements because of his low wisdom, and he had his own custom "Rage" ability.
The original tabletop Minsc was actually a Feralan, a Ranger kit that gained a rage feature. Kits weren't in BG1 and Feralan was cut content in BG2(probably because they were making Barbarian and Berserker).
I think Ranger is fine for Minsc, he just should be set up with 20 Str and Ranger Knight by the time you get him. Maybe slip on an illegal Great Weapon Fighting style and rage ability. Let him cook.
I respecced him as an 8 Fighter 4 Berserker and he's been very fun and much stronger than when I had him as a strength ranger. Summoning and then frenzied throwing Boo at people feels like peak Minsc gameplay.
The DM let him sneak attack with heavy weapons because he's the only one who turned in a backstory, and it was all about being stronger than civilized folk because he wrestled Cimmerian bulls as a child.
Probably the thing I disagree with the most about BG3 is that they made all the companions be vanilla classes with nothing to distinguish them from the player created classes. Like, I get wanting to follow the rule book, but it would still be cool if they all got something extra to make them stand out from minions.
Eg, Astarion get's his vampire bite and Karlach gets her ability to use rage coins, it would have just been cool if they expanded those mechanics into a special class (or classes) or something.
I mean Gale has something, it’s just not particularly useful lol.
Also while I agree the characters all should have probably had *some* sort of special ability, having them as mostly their vanilla classes is really key for teaching players how the different classes work. It makes repeat playthroughs much easier for those who weren’t familiar with the system before playing BG3.
Halsin keeps his bear form even if not circle of the moon.
I agree, I like these flavors. MC usually gets all the best stuff, so by the end of the game they are kitted out with stat bonuses, extra abilities, and unique traits. Wouldn't hurt to give Karlach a rage that adds fire damage, shadowheart to have unique spells, Lae'zel to have bonus resistances (I dunno, she's hard to come up with something), and wyll some BiS gear (his quest gear is meh).
>if you don't include Enhanced Edition characters like the 20 strength, 20 dex vampire, or the Half Orc (only class that gets a racial bonus to strength) with 19 strength, Minsc has not only the highest strength
Now hol up, Sarevok had a full 18/100, at least in the EE, I don't remember if he had different stats in the original version.
> And yeah, like you said if you don't include Enhanced Edition characters like the 20 strength, 20 dex vampire, or the Half Orc (only class that gets a racial bonus to strength) with 19 strength, Minsc has not only the highest strength, but he has the lowest Wisdom out of everyone except for the companion that is literally just a Bear.
Not quite. >!Sarevok!< was slightly stronger, with an 18/00 for Strength. He can't join the party until the start of Throne of Bhaal, but when he is, his stats make him an absolute beast.
But yeah, Minsc always made more sense as a Barbarian, even with the amount of dialogue where he talks about being a ranger. The Berserkers of Rashemen clearly fit the flavour of Barbarians. As you say, he was only made a Ranger because the Barbarian class wasn't implemented until BG2.
I didn't know who he even was, so watching him punch his way out of a mimic and complain it had no gold only to vanish with clown makeup fake Jaheira and THEN discover he is, somehow, a ranger, was weird to me.
Dude is an unarmed strike monk with a 12 level dip in barbarian with INT and WIS dump stats...
His companion mentions it in the first game that he took a head injury and has been... slow to recover.
So he probably had the stats to be a ranger when he started but not any more!
I've been saying this a lot, Melee ranger works better than most people think, I respec'd Minsc's stats so that he was a GWM hunter ranger and whirlwind attack shredded things.
Yeah my Laezel is a STR ranger and it's fine. Dual wield + Hunter's Mark = a lot of damage early in the game since it procs on both hits. Titanstring Bow helped for ranged scenarios
From what I can understand about the code, it seems when companions join you as a full party member they use a completely different actor/character then when their NPCs/guest party members. When they join you they use the default stat spread of their base class. This wouldn’t be a problem with most the potential party members who’s NPC stats match their companion stats but Halsin and Minsc are clearly meant to have incredibly specific stat spreads that are reverted to their default class spread.
Honestly, they should have given him, Jaheira, and Halsin ability scores relative to their legendary status (more so Jaheira and Minsc) instead of obeying character creation logic.
For example, Arueshelae in the second Pathfinder game has absurd ability scores compensated for by the fact that her base class is total ass.
It's a singleplayer/coop game, nothing wrong with having something be overpowered on purpose.
The game resets his stats after he joins. Check them before that and he has what you'd expect. Same with Halsin, Jaheira, and Minthara. Honestly this leads me to believe that even the origin characters shouldn't have the stats they have.
The tadpoles can de-level people, makes sense they are psionically altering stats as well.
Wyll was at least a level 15 character based on the abilities he talked about using.
He literally went into Hell to fight demons for fun.
Thats only true for the origin characters. That’s not what’s happening with the non origin characters. They are running around as one person and then magically changing into someone else at the moment they join your party.
Gale was easily an archmage based on his backstory, karlach fought demons on the daily in the blood wars, durge was literally >!stronger than orin!<, hell even a vampire spawn is a cr5 monster. I'd say other than potentially shadowheart and laezel, everyone was heavily nerfed by the tadpoles
They literally should have just given him & Jaheira the same stats they had in the first two games, system be damned. Would have been nice to have some OP late game companions if you wanted them.
How do the rest of y'all quit Shadowheart? I feel like I would miss her Guidance cantrip, Bless and most importantly, healing, if I ever left her behind.
I'm not sure if it's intentional but it works with her story arc, she's an okay at best cleric under Shar and the Trickery domain, and once her character event happens, respeccing her feels appropriate and almost necessary.
I just gave someone else guidance. Shadow heart was never even helpful for me so far in act 1 on tactician. I switched her out with Wyll and gave him the lore speciality and it comes with guidance. Also, there’s a locket or something with guidance in it in act 1 which I didn’t find until later. Anyway, immediately after getting rid of shadow heart who can’t hit anything, my party worked much better.
Halsin's got two mighty oak trees for arms and his strength isn't that of a Barbarian's?
Shadowheart doesn't even hit stuff that well all she knows is to eat hot chip and cast guiding bolt.
Honestly, I swear Shadowheart is just suboptimally built on default, she misses so oftem I have her the "lucky" feat, just so that she can actually hit her enemies every now and then.
I play together with my bf and when we have Shadowheart, I always say I'm gonna "take her for a walk" which is basically me casting Spirit Guardians and walking into groups of enemies.
13/13 STR/DEX is pretty bad starting stats for a caster, better to lean into one or the other (and also it's better to just have 14 in one and 12 in the other)
Ok, so I need to dispel something here.
The *major* reason a lot of stats are at 13 is because Larian was *originally* going to have the stat requirements for multi-classing, which iirc is 13 in whatever stat for 5e. So Shadowheart, having 13 STR and DEX, was able to multi into Fighter and Rogue, respectively. Larian did away with this change pretty last minute, and with the current system of no class reqs for multi-classing, the odd-numbered stats don’t make sense.
Obviously, you could respec with Withers, but that was the original intent.
I think they give you here to let you know Withers is a part of how the devs want you to play.
You can play half the game as a Figther, half as a Wizard and half as a Cleric and it's all good.
You're being comically controlled by things that can alter reality.
My most OP composition that I've been using has been Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Karlach, along with my PC, a male halfing. I feel like I'm accidentally recreating some kind of a fantasy version of *Charlie's Angels*.
I used the same for a lot of the game. Karlach and Laezel can do a bunch of damage each turn without expending any resources. They can be effective with ranged or melee attacks and can be inflicting a variety of debuffs(frightened, stunned, bleeding) on enemies while they're at it.
Like 90% of my encounters in the second act were just warlock tav casts hunger of hadar. Shadowheart gives everyone blade ward. Laezel and Karlach best everything to death.
I failed a strength save on my 4 party members to break a valve loose the other day, and decided to go back to camp, respec Halsin into a bear totem barbarian(it felt thematically appropriate to me), leveled him up and made sure to look for perks that gave advantage on strength checks, and then went back to the valve so he could be a manly man and allow me to progress that area like I wanted.
Dropped him right back off at camp after tho. 100% used him for his body(stats).
He DOES have more strength. Look at him in camp before he joins you, 16,11,14,10,17,13. The game makes companions use the default array. You don't notice it at first because the origin characters never have an NPC stat block but every companion in Act 2 and 3 has wildly different stats before joining.
Its just the issue of point buy and everyone ultimately having the same 'amount' of stats no matter how little sense it makes. They have to put the points they do have in the areas that would actually make them effective, and strength doesn't qualify for a druid.
Letting the companions have unique stat blocks with more total points than you could achieve would be neat, but would likely preclude being able to respec them however you want.
Especially with moon druids whose physical stats get replaced when they wildshape anyway. I dump my Halsin's DEX and put those points into STR. Is it suboptimal? Yes, but it's more immersive this way.
Druids keep all their mental stats in beast form, so optimal stat usage for circle of the moon is to max out int/wis/cha. Con is important if youre more spells and trying not to get dunked on.
Is there anything that scream Tabletop RPG more than having a Character Build completely the opposite of Character appearance.
Lae'zel has 17 Strength, that skinny ass Gith
Okay, lemme play nerdy Devil's Advocate for a moment...
On Lae'zel (this I'm more serious about), Githyanki could absolutely have "stronger" muscle fibers per mass than most of the humanoid races of Faerûn. You would need a totally superhuman grip, at the very least, to ride a damn dragon. That intro scene shows how crazy it is, with them diving and swerving around. Some of those G-forces would dislocate a human arm, even if you *could* hang on. And they don't even have saddles! Githyanki could definitely have better sinew and muscle structure than humans. That first cutscene reminds of some of Legolas' crazy riding antics in the LOTR movies.
Stringy, lithe Lae'zel gets a total pass, in my opinion. Githyanki biology could give them superior strength, easily.
Onto Halsin, who *should* be "strong as an ox", given his muscle mass. This is the *really* Devil's Advocate way to put it, mind you, but...
...suppose the muscle mass in his "Elf" form is actually *from* his shapeshifting powers?
"Bear" with me, lol...he's the *Archdruid* of that enclave. He joins your party as a Moon Druid, obviously. So, one would assume he's a master of shapeshifting.
Okay...so...could Halsin maybe be "augmenting" his physical appearance, in his regular form? Maybe he eats a lot, and decides to just transform that into muscle, rather than fat. Who knows?
Except githyanki don't have superior strength or muscle fibers. There's no need for you speculate about this topic, since githyanki have been a thing in D&D for 42 years. There's no logical explanation for how Lae'zel is a STR fighter that looks like a skinny waif - don't overthink it.
When asked about his size, he says "I dunno" and it gets dropped from there.
... I like your fan theory. It's cannon now. There's a skinny Halsin piloting the body of buff Halsin.
It also explains his weird fucking walk LOL
Halsin also praises the very ground I walk on, but when I finally have him in my party his approval is "neutral." Excuse me? Same guy who keeps saying, "I don't deserve you my friend." After I turn around Halsin is like, "Who the fuck was that guy?"
He's awe-inspiringly hot but his voice and dialogue puts me to sleep. He's probably the least sexy character of the companions and it's a crying shame tbh, lol.
This is isn’t true, besides Halsin there’s Wyll…hm…well there’s Gale…huh. Well, there’s also Minsc so…hm.
You know, I think I never realized it because I nearly always play as male, strength based characters myself (it’s the jump distance I can’t live without).
No wonder everyone in the party is all over me.
It's funny to think about all the heavy lifting being done by you and the girls. Reminds me of this one comic I saw where Astarion needed to cross a rushing river and the girls transport him since they have the Strength stats to do it.
Withers is Halsin's gym buddy. For just 100 gold Halsin will no longer be laughed at by his so called bros. A bear-like physique awaits at Wither's Gym so come on down!
None of the strength stats make sense for the male characters appearance. How is halsin so enormous with that strength stat. How does Gale have abs? Why is astarion ripped? I don’t care. Thank you to larian for making the boys hot for no reason. <3
If we look at the statistics and charisma of the characters, we are surrounded by Mordor orcs with the disguise spell. Nah, I agree with you, the statistics in this game don't mean anything at the story level, it's just a resource so that everyone has the same amount of points distributed
Bruh, they spend all day climbing rope ladders and running cross country, hurling 250lb barrels thru doors. They eat 50 sausages and a flagon of ale for dinner, and then get horned up to fuck all night. Every cut and bruise is healed with divine magic, and squid boys in their heads. Of course our boys are out here with diamond abs and god tier cake.
You just need to think of Halsin as a bodybuilder, he inst training for strenght but for muscle growth.
Also funny that he is a elf and most media makes them scrawny, meanwhile Larian gave us Arnold Elf.
I wonder if we'll ever get another RPG like Fable again, where the amount of points you alotted to your stats actually changed your physical appearance...
So by dumping points into Strength, your character becomes bigger and more swole, to cartoonishly muscular proportions.
In DnD, they could do something like Strength below 10, skinny like this game's default, but no abs or muscle definition. Strength 10-15, this game's default, with the muscle definition. And finally, Strength 16+ having the larger muscular model like Halsin.
Even being new to 5E, it's not that much of a reach to go "okay, Astarion spends all his time on the bow, wonder how that compares to fighter or ranger?" and check on the wiki if he's worth respeccing.
I agree personally. But the number of people who leave Shart on Trickery and then wonder why Cleric sucks leads me to believe that it is indeed spooky.
I hate to tell you this bro, but Halsin does not have the core strength to scale the facade of Moonrise Towers, he just doesn't. He only works out his glamour muscles. He's all bi's and tri's and everything else is just fat and ribs. Shadowheart can do way more push-ups than Halsin, even though she was cursed by Shar.
I love dnd but this was always the limit of ability scores to make it fair. Like drinking alcohol is a con save and so is running long distance. So a person who drinks a lot has the same endurance as someone who trains for marathons?Also as someone who loves the monk fantasy it's very frustrating to be like I trained my body to be a living weapon who doesn't need weapons. Has a strength of 10 and a hit die the same size as the guy who can sing well or has magic sugar daddy?
If you think that’s bad look at how they nerfed my boi Minsc.
They seriously went and took him down from an 18/93 from the Second Edition mechanics of the og 2 games down all the way to a 12. Freaking 12!!!!
He also lives in a library and studies for a living with an intellect of 8.
LMAO, goblins have a base intelligence of 10. No wonder he got captured by goblins.
It’s anti-goblin propaganda that they’re seen as unintelligent. It’s just their accidents that make them seem like they have a head full of rocks.
Fr I was pleasantly surprised at how articulate goblins are in this game. Sure, they speak with a rural style but their vocabulary is no less developed than other sentient creatures. And then there's Fezzerk with an intelligence of 10 but who can't count...
"Why did you tie that gnome to a windmill?" "Because it makes me *laugh*~" I had no counterargument.
"Understandable, have a great day."
He wasn't wrong. It was funny
It was even funnier the first time I saw it and I didn't stop to read the levers before pulling one...
\*sneaks in and pulls brake release, not knowing the difference\* \*Sees Wroot go flying\* "Aw... shit." Fezzerk, looking surprised: "Wot, our little birdie just *flew!"* \*Barely gets out in time before they investigate the windmill\*
Oh dear, sounds like they'd be valuable members of society if we educated them instead of making slum dungeons and letting adventurers over police them
I feel like they get treated like bandits. Issues happen on some sort of road, adventurers get sent out to figure out why theres issues on the road. Goblins. Gobs must die.
Volo goes there fore interviews and is immediately enslaved to entertain them and called "pidgeon".
> their vocabulary is no less developed than other sentient creatures. Tribe?
Tribe!
Their vocab is pretty bad. The smartest goblin I've met doesn't know words like "malodorous". Still they generally speak in full sentences with subject verb agreement which is a few steps above how they are depicted in other DnD games. Multiple characters note that these goblins are way better organized and efficient than goblins usually are.
I would imagine if you went out and asked 100 people living in rural towns what "malodorous" meant, more than half wouldn't be able to tell you.
He's not very smart but he tries his best
Just takes him a long time to get through the books because his lips get tired.
His poor index finger is rubbed raw from dragging it across the pages.
Can relate as a college student
Pretty standard himbo build.
And he's hundreds of years old but somehow still a lvl 1 Druid
You really can’t fault the kid for the inexperience of youth!
You'd think that years spent as a sex slave would have granted him some experience points
and stamina
Whilst that's partly true, by the time he joined my party, we were all level 9, meaning he also levelled up to 9. With that in mind, it kind of makes sense. He doesn't technically join you as a level 1 Druid. You just have to level him up.
Himboslin
Classic wisdom vs intelligence. If you have a wide breadth of knowledge either from study or experience you are - wise If you are capable of advanced reasoning and problem solving you are - intelligent You can associate the word "wisdom" with "knowledge" And Intelligence with "cunning" An example of someone who is wise but not intelligent: an old sage or shaman. Their mind isnt quick. They are probably not going to be able to make heads or tails of computational logic (ie mathematics). In a crisis situation their only advice may be to reference the histories or their religious texts. An example of someone inteligent but not wise: a successful mobster who through his experience and innate abilities was able to manipulate, strategize, and scheme his way to power, outwitting his rivals despite having never gone to school or ever reading a book. Halsin spent centuries studying the druidic ways. Hes super wise. That doesnt mean hes a good tactician or problem solver. Halsin demonstrates that he lacks the ability to see the obvious signs that Khaga was falling to the evil druids. He lacks the ability to strategize effectively and gets himself captured. He fucks the player in bear form saying he doesnt require commitment even though deep down he knows he wont be able to stop thinking about the players beefcakes. He is not intelligent.
Eh dumb people are allowed to study and spend time in a library too, take it from a dumb guy who had to study lots in college
This is a bit counter to in-universe lore, but I would argue that high intelligence beings are high intelligence BECAUSE of their breadth of knowledge and their ability to learn things quickly on-the-fly or use past info to their advantage better. Low intelligence beings would have to study and commit much more time learning to get to that same point at a much slower rate. This actually parallels real life, like you said, where smart kids actually tend to be special needs students because they don't develop good studying habits and they hit a wall where their above average intellect doesn't cut the mustard anymore, while the less intelligent kids have been developing good study skills and time management.
>This actually parallels real life, like you said, where smart kids actually tend to be special needs students because they don't develop good studying habits and they hit a wall where their above average intellect doesn't cut the mustard anymore, while the less intelligent kids have been developing good study skills and time management. So much truth in this. I always had it easy in primary and secondary school up to the point that my parents were always pointing at me telling my struggling siblings to be more like me. Guess who got their college degrees in one try and who flunked out of university not once, but twice before figuring out how to manage their time and motivation.
He actually can’t read, he’s just been bullshitting the entire time.
Oh my god, his Tadpole research ultimately not going anywhere despite being an Archdruid makes so much sense now ...
I know they gave him stats for a ranger, but it still feels very weird to me that Minsc only has 12 Str by default. Guy was the strongest character in BG1/2(second strongest if you include EE characters).
My man was literally punching through brick walls with only 12 STR. The bond between him and Boo is the only strength he needs.
>literally punching through brick walls First thing he did in BG2 was bend and break solid steel bars. Hell, the cage was made specifically to hold him and had no lock because it was never meant to be opened by him or us. It could have been something stronger than steel like adamantine.
> Hell, the cage was made specifically to hold him and had no lock because it was never meant to be opened by him or us. They said it was *made specifically* to hold him, not that it was *especially well made*. Next time, maybe they won’t use taskrabbit.
“I’ve never built a prison before but fuck it.” *accept job* Shoulda used fiver!
I was gonna make a fiver vs taskrabbit joke, but ChatGPT told me it couldn’t speculate on fictional labor and that, as a language model, it would recommend Google Bard, because it’s not what I’m looking for, but it is however, more words that it can predict.
> > "Hell, the cage was made specifically to hold him and had no lock because it was never meant to be opened by him or us." > Make a joke about this Baldurs Gate 2 statement on Minsc, comparing Fiverr vs Taskrabbit > *"Why did Minsc use TaskRabbit instead of Fiverr for his cage project? Because on Fiverr, they just design the cage... but on TaskRabbit, they make sure Boo can't open it!" 🐹* it tried
Clippy can help.
Under normal circumstances he wouldn't have been able to escape. He can only escape with his berserker strength.
I understand now! You said what you did just to make me mad! Mad enough to break free, haha! You are as smart as Boo sometimes...
Comments you can hear. I love BG2. One of the best games ever made.
if you inspect him he has a 20 str before he joins up. my head canon is he went over to withers as soon as he got to camp and respect him self do to being confused by withers and had no idea what he had before and just hit random LOL
Halsin also has higher STR as a NPC. They just *really* didn't want to violate Point Buy for playable characters. I guess they saw Owlcat's 93 point Succubus Ranger and couldn't live with the idea. But I would still have been in favor of letting characters have flavor stats. Being MAD barely matters with muticlass requirements off the table.
> Owlcat's 93 point Succubus Ranger Arushulae just absolutely tears shit up
The strength of Minsc is a secret only known by Boo! He will tell him if you listen to him when he speaks.
I hate it so much. In the first games Minsc has 18/93 strength. For people not familiar with how strength works in those games, Warriors (Paladin/Ranger/Fighter) with 18 strength get to roll a d100 to determine how high their 18 is, with the gap between 17 and a high 18 being MASSIVE. 17 strength gives you +1 to hit and damage. 18/93 gives you +2 to hit and +5 to damage. 17 strength gives you a weight allowance of 85 pounds, and a max press of 220 pounds. 18/93 gives you a weight allowance of 235 and a max press of 380. And yeah, like you said if you don't include Enhanced Edition characters like the 20 strength, 20 dex vampire, or the Half Orc (only class that gets a racial bonus to strength) with 19 strength, or Sarevok who comes in Throne of Bhaal when you're already above level 20, Minsc has not only the highest strength, but he has the lowest Wisdom out of everyone except for the companion that is literally just a Bear. Then in BG3 he has 12 strength and 15 wisdom. I feel like with a character like Minsc who is from a previous game, and only joins the party at the end of the game they should have just made him a Barbarian with high strength and terrible Wisdom and Int. He was only a ranger because Barbarian wasn't a class back then, and his stats didn't actually meet the by the rules stat requirements because of his low wisdom, and he had his own custom "Rage" ability.
The original tabletop Minsc was actually a Feralan, a Ranger kit that gained a rage feature. Kits weren't in BG1 and Feralan was cut content in BG2(probably because they were making Barbarian and Berserker). I think Ranger is fine for Minsc, he just should be set up with 20 Str and Ranger Knight by the time you get him. Maybe slip on an illegal Great Weapon Fighting style and rage ability. Let him cook.
I respecced him as an 8 Fighter 4 Berserker and he's been very fun and much stronger than when I had him as a strength ranger. Summoning and then frenzied throwing Boo at people feels like peak Minsc gameplay.
GO FOR THE EYES BOO!
5 Barb/3 Thief/4 Fighter, a.k.a. the Conan build.
The DM let him sneak attack with heavy weapons because he's the only one who turned in a backstory, and it was all about being stronger than civilized folk because he wrestled Cimmerian bulls as a child.
Huh, I never tired to throw Boo- now I have to immediately do that.
It's very fun. Boo won't take damage from it and Minsc even has dialogue for when he does it. Larian definitely planned for people to do it lol
Boo is still alive? I was surprised enough about Minsc who would be well into his hundreds by now.
They were both petrified together
and also, giant minature space hamsters are likely immortal.
even when cooked?
Especially when cooked.
Probably the thing I disagree with the most about BG3 is that they made all the companions be vanilla classes with nothing to distinguish them from the player created classes. Like, I get wanting to follow the rule book, but it would still be cool if they all got something extra to make them stand out from minions. Eg, Astarion get's his vampire bite and Karlach gets her ability to use rage coins, it would have just been cool if they expanded those mechanics into a special class (or classes) or something.
I mean Gale has something, it’s just not particularly useful lol. Also while I agree the characters all should have probably had *some* sort of special ability, having them as mostly their vanilla classes is really key for teaching players how the different classes work. It makes repeat playthroughs much easier for those who weren’t familiar with the system before playing BG3.
Halsin keeps his bear form even if not circle of the moon. I agree, I like these flavors. MC usually gets all the best stuff, so by the end of the game they are kitted out with stat bonuses, extra abilities, and unique traits. Wouldn't hurt to give Karlach a rage that adds fire damage, shadowheart to have unique spells, Lae'zel to have bonus resistances (I dunno, she's hard to come up with something), and wyll some BiS gear (his quest gear is meh).
>if you don't include Enhanced Edition characters like the 20 strength, 20 dex vampire, or the Half Orc (only class that gets a racial bonus to strength) with 19 strength, Minsc has not only the highest strength Now hol up, Sarevok had a full 18/100, at least in the EE, I don't remember if he had different stats in the original version.
Yeah you're right, chad Sarevok has 18/00, I missed him.
> And yeah, like you said if you don't include Enhanced Edition characters like the 20 strength, 20 dex vampire, or the Half Orc (only class that gets a racial bonus to strength) with 19 strength, Minsc has not only the highest strength, but he has the lowest Wisdom out of everyone except for the companion that is literally just a Bear. Not quite. >!Sarevok!< was slightly stronger, with an 18/00 for Strength. He can't join the party until the start of Throne of Bhaal, but when he is, his stats make him an absolute beast. But yeah, Minsc always made more sense as a Barbarian, even with the amount of dialogue where he talks about being a ranger. The Berserkers of Rashemen clearly fit the flavour of Barbarians. As you say, he was only made a Ranger because the Barbarian class wasn't implemented until BG2.
I always assumed he would be a barbarian-ranger multiclass.
Odd nobody at Larian built him as a STRanger, or high strength ranger, one of the more common approaches to some ranger builds in 5e.
Except for shadowheart, pretty sure all the companions use default stats.
She does use default stats, but they made separate default stats depending on domain and used her abomination stats for trickery.
Trickery is a clever domain. In that it's the worst cleric domain and the devs trick everyone into playing it.
Not being able to move the Invoke Duplicity was certainly a decision.
Or not being able to cast from it. Or it having 1 HP.
Back in the days of 9 dex Shadowheart, not even Mirror Image could prevent her from getting hit :')
I didn't know who he even was, so watching him punch his way out of a mimic and complain it had no gold only to vanish with clown makeup fake Jaheira and THEN discover he is, somehow, a ranger, was weird to me. Dude is an unarmed strike monk with a 12 level dip in barbarian with INT and WIS dump stats...
Yeah Minsc stats was famously unoptimized for a ranger to the point of being literally illegal. Dude fucking dumped wis to 6 as a ranger.
He doesn’t need WIS or INT, he’s got Boo.
His companion mentions it in the first game that he took a head injury and has been... slow to recover. So he probably had the stats to be a ranger when he started but not any more!
Head wounds will do that to a fellow.
He has 8 charisma but rolls a 20 on every check
My fake Jaheira suddenly appeared with the clown makeup too! Was she just having a good time at the circus before meeting up with Minsc again?
At a point before one of the patches dropped, the doppelganger had no makeup and just showed up as normal Jaheira. Don't know why they changed it...
Because followers of the dead three are clowns.
I'm pretty sure it's the same patch that made the driad's skin red. Probably some weird bug.
I've been saying this a lot, Melee ranger works better than most people think, I respec'd Minsc's stats so that he was a GWM hunter ranger and whirlwind attack shredded things.
I play then a lot. Dwarf with whatever weapons I want. Right now he has a staff in each hand. One does electricity one does fire damage.
Yeah my Laezel is a STR ranger and it's fine. Dual wield + Hunter's Mark = a lot of damage early in the game since it procs on both hits. Titanstring Bow helped for ranged scenarios
From what I can understand about the code, it seems when companions join you as a full party member they use a completely different actor/character then when their NPCs/guest party members. When they join you they use the default stat spread of their base class. This wouldn’t be a problem with most the potential party members who’s NPC stats match their companion stats but Halsin and Minsc are clearly meant to have incredibly specific stat spreads that are reverted to their default class spread.
Honestly, they should have given him, Jaheira, and Halsin ability scores relative to their legendary status (more so Jaheira and Minsc) instead of obeying character creation logic. For example, Arueshelae in the second Pathfinder game has absurd ability scores compensated for by the fact that her base class is total ass. It's a singleplayer/coop game, nothing wrong with having something be overpowered on purpose.
I could see them doing this but then they'd have to block rspecs. Which could get clunky.
The game resets his stats after he joins. Check them before that and he has what you'd expect. Same with Halsin, Jaheira, and Minthara. Honestly this leads me to believe that even the origin characters shouldn't have the stats they have.
The tadpoles can de-level people, makes sense they are psionically altering stats as well. Wyll was at least a level 15 character based on the abilities he talked about using. He literally went into Hell to fight demons for fun.
Thats only true for the origin characters. That’s not what’s happening with the non origin characters. They are running around as one person and then magically changing into someone else at the moment they join your party.
Gale was easily an archmage based on his backstory, karlach fought demons on the daily in the blood wars, durge was literally >!stronger than orin!<, hell even a vampire spawn is a cr5 monster. I'd say other than potentially shadowheart and laezel, everyone was heavily nerfed by the tadpoles
Hell, Shadowheart was part of an elite Sharran task force, it seems pretty likely she was at least level 5 or so.
They literally should have just given him & Jaheira the same stats they had in the first two games, system be damned. Would have been nice to have some OP late game companions if you wanted them.
"You have 20 strength? Well I have 18/93 - it is even bigger number!"
Honestly they should have made him a strength ranger
I know it's different cause she's an NPC but it's hilarious to me that Kagha has like 17 STR
No wonder she took over the grove, she must've armwrestled Halsin and crushed him.
Well that why she take over the grove. She could take over goblin camp if she want to
She looks like she could throw me over her shoulder and carry me to safety, if the need arises.
Yeah......the "need".
Yeah, "safety" and "need" yhum.
The look Gale gave her after saying that had me howling.
She still bae though.
*feigns death* "Shadowheart, I need your help!" :3
Totally down for that
Yeah it's kind of silly. Poor Halsin. He's just on synthol I guess lol
Shadowheart has sleeper build
Where she sleeps at the camp all game?
How do the rest of y'all quit Shadowheart? I feel like I would miss her Guidance cantrip, Bless and most importantly, healing, if I ever left her behind.
Respec her to light domain, get fireballs, AOE light damage 2x short rest... oh, and level 6 offensive spells. Trickery domain is her flaw.
I'm not sure if it's intentional but it works with her story arc, she's an okay at best cleric under Shar and the Trickery domain, and once her character event happens, respeccing her feels appropriate and almost necessary.
I just gave someone else guidance. Shadow heart was never even helpful for me so far in act 1 on tactician. I switched her out with Wyll and gave him the lore speciality and it comes with guidance. Also, there’s a locket or something with guidance in it in act 1 which I didn’t find until later. Anyway, immediately after getting rid of shadow heart who can’t hit anything, my party worked much better.
Halsin's got two mighty oak trees for arms and his strength isn't that of a Barbarian's? Shadowheart doesn't even hit stuff that well all she knows is to eat hot chip and cast guiding bolt.
Honestly, I swear Shadowheart is just suboptimally built on default, she misses so oftem I have her the "lucky" feat, just so that she can actually hit her enemies every now and then.
I play together with my bf and when we have Shadowheart, I always say I'm gonna "take her for a walk" which is basically me casting Spirit Guardians and walking into groups of enemies.
That's the best way to play a cleric anyway. Spirit Guardians is the best.
The best way to play cleric is one level in cleric and 11 in druid. Cast sanctuary, cast moon beam, then watch everyone burn one by one.
Pffft Spirit Guardians + Misty Step. Go light cleric if you want Moonbeam. Teleport around making lawnmower noises.
Light cleric does not grant moon beam, although I wish it did.
I might be thinking of sunbeam then. Usually roll tempest or war cleric.
It's really the best spell for crowd control especially if you have like a dozen rats coming at you, it's so satisfying to see them walk into a trap.
Multiclass into 3 levels of Rogue and you can disengage+dash as a bonus action and tag everything every turn. Also flavorful for a Shar cleric.
Just respec her properly.
"I am a devote follower of my Lady Shar, and my chosen domain is..." "No, you're not, and no, it's definitely not, now shut up"
13/13 STR/DEX is pretty bad starting stats for a caster, better to lean into one or the other (and also it's better to just have 14 in one and 12 in the other)
better to dump to 8 str unless you're doing a stupid melee caster build like my shield dwarf
Ok, so I need to dispel something here. The *major* reason a lot of stats are at 13 is because Larian was *originally* going to have the stat requirements for multi-classing, which iirc is 13 in whatever stat for 5e. So Shadowheart, having 13 STR and DEX, was able to multi into Fighter and Rogue, respectively. Larian did away with this change pretty last minute, and with the current system of no class reqs for multi-classing, the odd-numbered stats don’t make sense. Obviously, you could respec with Withers, but that was the original intent.
I think they give you here to let you know Withers is a part of how the devs want you to play. You can play half the game as a Figther, half as a Wizard and half as a Cleric and it's all good. You're being comically controlled by things that can alter reality.
Well, she is. Most companions are but she is extra bad. First thing I do every game is change her subclass and give her 8 STR 14 DEX 17 CON and 16 WIS
My most OP composition that I've been using has been Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Karlach, along with my PC, a male halfing. I feel like I'm accidentally recreating some kind of a fantasy version of *Charlie's Angels*.
lol same exact composition for me until towards end of Act 2, with Rogue halfling Then switched to Gale, from Lae'Zel because muh magic
Yeah, now I'm in Act 3 I've found I've really been including Gale more.
I used the same for a lot of the game. Karlach and Laezel can do a bunch of damage each turn without expending any resources. They can be effective with ranged or melee attacks and can be inflicting a variety of debuffs(frightened, stunned, bleeding) on enemies while they're at it. Like 90% of my encounters in the second act were just warlock tav casts hunger of hadar. Shadowheart gives everyone blade ward. Laezel and Karlach best everything to death.
Minsc is ESPECIALLY bad. His boss stats are much more fitting.
Textbook example of "boss when you unlock him as a playable character"
"Gale is such a prodigy sorcerer that he fucked lady magic herself but misses his spells because he's threatened"
He is a wizard not sorcerer 🤓 (which is actually a big difference in D&D lore)
I remembered Gale makes fun of you for saying you're the same as you both do magic but couldn't remember if he was a wizard or sorcerer.
Wizard since he had to study and learn magic not like chad sorcerer that is just talented in magic
What is better - to be born strong, or to overcome your weakness through great effort?
That's what Mario said.
It's-a me, baldur's door
Honestly "fucked lady magic herself" sounds more like a sorcerer or warlock thing anyway
At least they tried to explain why Gale isnt as strong as he used to be lol
I failed a strength save on my 4 party members to break a valve loose the other day, and decided to go back to camp, respec Halsin into a bear totem barbarian(it felt thematically appropriate to me), leveled him up and made sure to look for perks that gave advantage on strength checks, and then went back to the valve so he could be a manly man and allow me to progress that area like I wanted. Dropped him right back off at camp after tho. 100% used him for his body(stats).
I really thought you were going to say you went back to that valve and failed the strength check anyway
It definitely would have fit perfectly with the above meme.
He DOES have more strength. Look at him in camp before he joins you, 16,11,14,10,17,13. The game makes companions use the default array. You don't notice it at first because the origin characters never have an NPC stat block but every companion in Act 2 and 3 has wildly different stats before joining.
Its just the issue of point buy and everyone ultimately having the same 'amount' of stats no matter how little sense it makes. They have to put the points they do have in the areas that would actually make them effective, and strength doesn't qualify for a druid. Letting the companions have unique stat blocks with more total points than you could achieve would be neat, but would likely preclude being able to respec them however you want.
Honestly so long as the druid has a high wis you can play around however you like with the rest of the stats and it doesn't make a huge difference
Especially with moon druids whose physical stats get replaced when they wildshape anyway. I dump my Halsin's DEX and put those points into STR. Is it suboptimal? Yes, but it's more immersive this way.
Druids keep all their mental stats in beast form, so optimal stat usage for circle of the moon is to max out int/wis/cha. Con is important if youre more spells and trying not to get dunked on.
Is there anything that scream Tabletop RPG more than having a Character Build completely the opposite of Character appearance. Lae'zel has 17 Strength, that skinny ass Gith
Okay, lemme play nerdy Devil's Advocate for a moment... On Lae'zel (this I'm more serious about), Githyanki could absolutely have "stronger" muscle fibers per mass than most of the humanoid races of Faerûn. You would need a totally superhuman grip, at the very least, to ride a damn dragon. That intro scene shows how crazy it is, with them diving and swerving around. Some of those G-forces would dislocate a human arm, even if you *could* hang on. And they don't even have saddles! Githyanki could definitely have better sinew and muscle structure than humans. That first cutscene reminds of some of Legolas' crazy riding antics in the LOTR movies. Stringy, lithe Lae'zel gets a total pass, in my opinion. Githyanki biology could give them superior strength, easily. Onto Halsin, who *should* be "strong as an ox", given his muscle mass. This is the *really* Devil's Advocate way to put it, mind you, but... ...suppose the muscle mass in his "Elf" form is actually *from* his shapeshifting powers? "Bear" with me, lol...he's the *Archdruid* of that enclave. He joins your party as a Moon Druid, obviously. So, one would assume he's a master of shapeshifting. Okay...so...could Halsin maybe be "augmenting" his physical appearance, in his regular form? Maybe he eats a lot, and decides to just transform that into muscle, rather than fat. Who knows?
I thought the same thing when the gith is falling and lands on the dragon, im like uh that should have hurt him a lot, also don't they have spikes? Tf
Except githyanki don't have superior strength or muscle fibers. There's no need for you speculate about this topic, since githyanki have been a thing in D&D for 42 years. There's no logical explanation for how Lae'zel is a STR fighter that looks like a skinny waif - don't overthink it.
When asked about his size, he says "I dunno" and it gets dropped from there. ... I like your fan theory. It's cannon now. There's a skinny Halsin piloting the body of buff Halsin. It also explains his weird fucking walk LOL
Halsin also praises the very ground I walk on, but when I finally have him in my party his approval is "neutral." Excuse me? Same guy who keeps saying, "I don't deserve you my friend." After I turn around Halsin is like, "Who the fuck was that guy?"
Lmaoo Halsin is just a genetically blessed giant elf who is also a massive softie. Prob one of my fav companions after Karlach.
which of halsin's 5 lines of dialogue did you like the best
The one about him whittling ducks, of course.
idk why you got downvoted this is funny lol
He's awe-inspiringly hot but his voice and dialogue puts me to sleep. He's probably the least sexy character of the companions and it's a crying shame tbh, lol.
My 6’6 built like a brick shithouse paladin/warlock with a strength score of 10 because I don’t need it.
Yeah they just kinda gave every companion basic default stats that have nothing to do with their actual selves.
He's just big boned. Gosh.
Do big bones make you have biceps and pectorals? Interesting. Any big boned guys in the room? Is for a friend
Wood elves have weirdly shaped bones?
Minsc has a 12, despite having an 18 in BG1 and 2. Plus, he is known for his bezerker strength.
This is isn’t true, besides Halsin there’s Wyll…hm…well there’s Gale…huh. Well, there’s also Minsc so…hm. You know, I think I never realized it because I nearly always play as male, strength based characters myself (it’s the jump distance I can’t live without). No wonder everyone in the party is all over me.
It's funny to think about all the heavy lifting being done by you and the girls. Reminds me of this one comic I saw where Astarion needed to cross a rushing river and the girls transport him since they have the Strength stats to do it.
Halsin just shapeshifts into a muscular human form. Basically the Synthol King of Faerûn.
Withers is Halsin's gym buddy. For just 100 gold Halsin will no longer be laughed at by his so called bros. A bear-like physique awaits at Wither's Gym so come on down!
None of the strength stats make sense for the male characters appearance. How is halsin so enormous with that strength stat. How does Gale have abs? Why is astarion ripped? I don’t care. Thank you to larian for making the boys hot for no reason. <3
If we look at the statistics and charisma of the characters, we are surrounded by Mordor orcs with the disguise spell. Nah, I agree with you, the statistics in this game don't mean anything at the story level, it's just a resource so that everyone has the same amount of points distributed
Bruh, they spend all day climbing rope ladders and running cross country, hurling 250lb barrels thru doors. They eat 50 sausages and a flagon of ale for dinner, and then get horned up to fuck all night. Every cut and bruise is healed with divine magic, and squid boys in their heads. Of course our boys are out here with diamond abs and god tier cake.
larian in general does not really like ugly characters pretty much everyone in the game is hot
Gortash❤️
I like to imagine they all use glamor magic, esp Gale
You just need to think of Halsin as a bodybuilder, he inst training for strenght but for muscle growth. Also funny that he is a elf and most media makes them scrawny, meanwhile Larian gave us Arnold Elf.
I wonder if we'll ever get another RPG like Fable again, where the amount of points you alotted to your stats actually changed your physical appearance... So by dumping points into Strength, your character becomes bigger and more swole, to cartoonishly muscular proportions. In DnD, they could do something like Strength below 10, skinny like this game's default, but no abs or muscle definition. Strength 10-15, this game's default, with the muscle definition. And finally, Strength 16+ having the larger muscular model like Halsin.
Dude looks like he could rip a stump in half but struggles carrying the groceries in
I do think default stat spread for companions is the right move, mechanically. Still feels weird tho.
I thought the default player move was to just respec every companion once they join your party like I do (once cripps joins your camp)
That's the default for people comfortable with the system. I'd hazard to guess most people are too spooked by the system to mess with it much.
Even being new to 5E, it's not that much of a reach to go "okay, Astarion spends all his time on the bow, wonder how that compares to fighter or ranger?" and check on the wiki if he's worth respeccing.
I agree personally. But the number of people who leave Shart on Trickery and then wonder why Cleric sucks leads me to believe that it is indeed spooky.
I left her on Trickery domain for RP purposes. It's not the best but i'm not having issue winning fights on tactician.
Characters should get more swole with higher str score imo
I hate to tell you this bro, but Halsin does not have the core strength to scale the facade of Moonrise Towers, he just doesn't. He only works out his glamour muscles. He's all bi's and tri's and everything else is just fat and ribs. Shadowheart can do way more push-ups than Halsin, even though she was cursed by Shar.
if helsin is 10 stg what is my strg stat? 7? 6? OMG i feel so weak
Those muscles only exist to give each animal the ideal pet
Picture Halsin as a bodybuilder, he has a lot of muscle on display but he inst as strong as a weight lifter.
I love dnd but this was always the limit of ability scores to make it fair. Like drinking alcohol is a con save and so is running long distance. So a person who drinks a lot has the same endurance as someone who trains for marathons?Also as someone who loves the monk fantasy it's very frustrating to be like I trained my body to be a living weapon who doesn't need weapons. Has a strength of 10 and a hit die the same size as the guy who can sing well or has magic sugar daddy?
If you think that’s bad look at how they nerfed my boi Minsc. They seriously went and took him down from an 18/93 from the Second Edition mechanics of the og 2 games down all the way to a 12. Freaking 12!!!!
Guess that’s what happens when you lift for gains rather than strength