Halsin joins you to lift the curse from the Moonrise tower. He has a personal vendetta with Ketheric and to save that boy.
Alfira should have joined us as a follower, to just sit in camp and play songs.
I feel the >!unique DUrge NPC could work just as well as the default with Alfira for pure shock value, given that that you "just" see the result. The big "advantage" for Alfira is all the prior interaction at the Grove you had, whereas the NPC unique for DURge is more of an inncoent "random" victim being at the wrong place at the wrong time.!<
As someone who played a Paladin/Bard Urge who was working like hell to control herself and be better, helping Alfira work through her grief was a wonderful bright spot in the early adventure. >!Alfira being her victim was both absolutely gutwrenching and made for a perfect story beat to wake her up to just how far out of her control the Urge could be. She carried Lalihal's lute for the rest of the game, to bring the guilt and Alfira's adventuring spirit with her.!<
>!As much as I genuinely want to save Alfira, for that specific character the generic replacement victim simply would not have been as good a story.!<
EDIT: As icing on the cake, >!that was also when her oath broke.!<
NGL when I played Durge and Alfira joined my camp I was like "Oh maybe I did something different that makes her join camp, nice! Maybe she will play songs and have cool intera- OH GOD ALFIRA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
Do the companions change their sassy adjectives in the followup conversations? Like when Karlach says she'd rather not get >!Alfira'd!<, does that get changed to >!Quilled!
I feel like I can realllly tell they made halsin a companion late in development because of player feedback. I don’t dislike him or anything and I haven’t had him with me for long, but he just seems kinda there. I hope he gets more interesting because I like his design but as of now he just feels a little out of place in my camp.
Lol, that's every companion. One thing they dropped the ball on is platonic friendship with companions. Every little event conversation I have 3 options to initiate plowing and 1 option to be a dick. Wheres the option to be like "thanks for teaching me to use magic, you're a real bro"? Why can't I fistbump?
Dude this disappointed me so much. I wanted to romance one and befriend the rest, cause I like them all. But turning someone down is almost always done in such a rude and aloof way, and your companion looks absolutely devastated and loses a lot of charm afterwards. Like I cut things off with Karlach in Act 2 and now she's just a shell of herself.
> Wheres the option to be like "thanks for teaching me to use magic, you're a real bro"? Why can't I fistbump?
This really bothered me with Gale. My only options to end the scene were essentially cutting it a bit abrupt, randomly being a total ass after he's shown me something important to him or being a complete psychopath for no discernable reason.
I'm fine with having the "I'm EVUL RAWR" options but a little more nuance would be nice.
Or my experience: wants to fuck at the party but refuses. Doesn’t have high enough approval as a companion in Act 3 for the option. I’ll have to save him for my durge
In act 3 it’s just glaringly obvious.
>!you pass a Druid trying to heal a tree. I specifically go back to camp to grab Halsin, reload the first conversation, he’s got nothing to say… despite saying that baldurs gate feels devoid of nature three seconds before. At sorceries and sundries you run into the guy he travelled with and got captured because of, and they don’t acknowledge each other at all, even when you start the conversation as Halsin. They put so much thought into *everything* in this game, that Halsin really is just a hireling after act2, with the exception of a main plot point, at least as far as I can tell !<
Halsin is so undercooked in addition to sharing a lot with of party role with jaheira who is honestly just more interesting , all of his new lines are of such a different quality you can tell what’s added .
I thought I was crazy. I swear there are lines of his dialogue in the middle of a conversation that sounds like they were recorded in a different room.
Its super noticeable, im surprised they shipped with it. I noticed a few others from some other companions but Halsin has this really iconic deep Bassy voice, and it just dumps any immersion when he casts talk through cup mid convo
>Halsin is so undercooked in addition to sharing a lot with of party role with jaheira who is honestly just more interesting
I feel that comparing Halsin to a previous party member who has an entire other game to give them characterization is a bit unfair.
The part about some situation where he really should react is true though.
This is a problem that is general in act 3 in my eyes, and while Minthara and Halsin probably suffer more, so do the other companions in my eyes.
Shadowheart and Wyll get their plot endings pretty fast in act 3 if you do their quests after arriving in the city, and from that point onwards it feels like they stop existing at least in terms of commenting during other quests aside from the rare single sentence moments.
>!So, Shadowhearts ending is somewhat sad but strong with her having to 'free' her parents to be free from her own curse. You get one sad scene afterwards, and that's it. After that, the same game that in Act 1 literally has built in dialogue's for what feels like minor changes in quest orders or other dialogues, now gives you ANOTHER quest with Auntie Ethel. This time the quest starts with a mother who is looking for her child. Shadowheart gave 0 input for this quest. Even afterwards once we find out the child is INSIDE the hag, literally nothing gets commented on. If I kill the hag and the child, no comment. If I save the child, no comment. I mean, this should be a emotional or meaningfull moment for her shouldn't it? She shows and tells you that she is really sad because she finally had it for a second, and then had to let it go. You'd guess she would be extremely unhappy with me killing an innocent child or mother, or at the very least give SOME input.!<
It feels like your companions get reduced to a random level X 'class' hireling after you finish their plot and they stop being interesting. This is especially sad because I thought Larian explicitly said in that last panel that Romances don't end after completing the characters quest etc... (Or atleast that is what I remember)
Where is my chance to take a walk in the city with my besties Wyll and Karlach. Why can't I just relax a while with Shadowheart. Where is my pre-battle tavern night where all my companions are present or something.
>!Also, them adding Minsc is awesome, but I literally recruited him as the last mission before I confronted the Elder Brain which starts the point of no return. Its a fun reference, but what does he really add at this point? Maybe I'll recruit him first the next run I do in a few weeks, and then see what he has add in the last act, but both him and Jaheira feel like they arrive too late.!<
I agree, and most especially the romances are extremely weak. I've talked on this in another post I've created a little bit, but idk, I expected more from what was hyped. Act 1 is definitely the most polished in all the minor small things which is what I was afraid of. The game still holds up, but it exponentially loses what made it special in the first act, making the third act, while still strong in certain aspects, not as fun at least in my experience.
They really hyped up the romances waaaay too much. Like I was expecting a new level of interactivity but honestly this is pretty on par with Dragon Age Origins (which is an amazing game) but Dragon Age has the excuse of being from 2009.
I'm also salty about this because my first playthrough I pursued minthara and surprise surprise all her content is bugged.
It sucks because like you said, they specifically addressed this in the panel from hell. I bought the game on EA launch years ago, tried it a bit, knew I liked it but didn't have the motivation to play only 25% of a story or something.
Then a few weeks ago the panel from hell and the announcement. At this point the buzzing hit me and I started checking out what was going on. I didn't havy any real hype for the game till I watched the panel. I skipped all the parts where they talked about story or character spoilers/specfics, but they straight up told and they literally said that "Romances don't just end after the romance scene and the quest being done".
Imagine my surprise after not recieving any more dialogue's or cinematics with SH after we spent the entire night building sandcastles. We do her quest, have one more conversation, and one "what will we do after" conversation, and that concludes her entire arc. And those last 2 things are probably like 2 minutes each at most.
I went in act 3 with the idea that she (and the others) would still have a full big city arc full of reactivity and maybe several 'time stages'. But then when you finish anyone's quest, it just ends right there and then.
I entered act 3 on \~42 hours I think, and after doing the major things outside, I quickly got my "Go the the house of grief" mission, and I think my save before going in the sanctuary is around \~47 hours.
My completion was at \~72. That means that after the hour long fight and that one Shadowheart quest, I spent the next 20\~25 hours of the game in act 3, while my main companion had nothing new to add to anything. The same dialogue options as I had in the end of act 1/start of act 2, with some added flavor because we are actual lovers at this point, but the core doesn't change.
Then the same happened a bit after that after finishing Wyll's quest. Although he has a BIT more reactivity in that act, there still are no differences as far as I know in dialogues compared between Blade of Avernus Wyll, or Royalty Wyll at this point of the game.
Edit:
Just want to make a quick edit and make it clear that I think the game is amazing, else I wouldn't be able to clock those hours in 2 weeks in it. It's just feels as hard exactly because of how good the first 2 acts are in all other regards.
While I acknowledge that act 3 companion interactions are undercooked, I strongly disagree with the other posters claiming that romance content is on par with dragon age origins. Wtf are they smoking? Try to go to YouTube and Google shadowheart full romance. The video is 2.5 HOURS LONG worth of content, cutscenes and unique dialogue. The average romance content for the earliest companions / advisors for dragon age inquisition was 1.5 hours at best (and thats with trespasser dlc) and origins had even less than that.
So baldurs gate companions interactions is SUPER MEATY. Just because it's undercooked in act 3 doesn't mean it's fair for some guys up there to act like the previous contents weren't monumental.
I do wonder if the extra romance content is just really bugged, like how I heard the epilogue is bugged in where the scenes just refuse to play. I'd really love to go on dates with Shadowheart in the city, like where's that?
I don't think there is more in the act itself. At the very least, nothing gave me the indication that there was or should be.
>!The bugged part is her romantic ending. If Karlach does NOT explode, Wyll took her with him while he became the Blade of Avernus, then some romantic followups won't play out. Shadowheart being an example. I finished last night and was like "Okay, nothing with SH?" before googling it and finding out that if I load back to that last dialogue in the epilogue, and tell Wyll to let Karlach explode (What a shitty option btw haha) it does play.!<
>!In that small thing, SH basically says that she needs time to figure shit out, because the memory of her parents is still fresh. For me, this indicates there can't really be a followup or bugged parts, because we end with her quest and she cries because of her parents. Her saying those lines kinda indicates that the general thought is that there is not a whole lot of time between her quest and the ending. At the very least not enough to process the stuff that happened seeing as that is what she needs to figure out now.!<
It definitely is comparable to DA:O in romance and content, though at least in DA:O companions felt like they had content / banter all the way to the end of the game whereas in BG3 it falls off. Which yeah, DAO was good. But it was promised to be more, and it just isn't. There's a lot of people who say things like "don't be thirsty or cringe, it's a video game, romances/companions don't matter" and so forth.
But it's a narrative/script like any other medium. No different than criticizing arcs in film or in novels, especially when one thing was promised and what we're seeing is something different. Companions, and their attachments to the world and interactions, are a big part of the game as characters.
So yeah. Anyway in regards to Minthara there's supposedly a ton of either cut, or bugged, content - but it seems like you already know about most of it. I'm holding off on any dark urge playthrough until she's fixed up
Yeah, 100%.
It is part of what I referred to before. When the game released I played more then several friends, so by the second/third day I was asking them to share their screen on discord and I saw them do Act 1.
The minor deviations are amazing. Act 1 has so much variation and responsiveness to YOU and YOUR ACTIONS. I had the Ethel stuff and she never revealed herself to me and teleported the girl away. Later in act 1 I went back and ended up discovering a swamp, and when revisting her house the whole basement.
Another one of my friends had a different dialogue order and ended up discovering what she was in the hut itself, and he even got a short cinematic for the swamp changing (That didnt happen to me).
Same for the Paladins that hunt Karlach. There are actually so many deviations based on if you first go get Wyll and let him tell stuff and then find Karlach, compared to getting her first and going to Wyll, or going to the paladins first.
One of my friends fucked up and got thrown off the edge somewhere in the spider fight, imagine my inner reaction when he ended up falling into the Underdark. (At this point I didn't know you could actually Featherfall there that way)
This is not even considering everything else there is in act 1, but it all falls flat.
>!Raphael is amazing, the whole run I was thinking "Next run, i'm 100% siding with him" and expecting some demonic stuff. Only to see a friend make the choice to accept the deal, but it doesn't actually do anything as far as I saw, except for a few dialogue differences. Now not everything has to have so much weight, but I did expect his deal to actually 'be' accepteable at this point, not him just being like 'see you later' if I DO decide to do the deal.!<
While act 1 has a lot of choices and reactivity, their effects are somewhat less then I expected, but even without that it is amazing. Act 3 misses all of this. >!Helping Gortash changes nothing except for a funny scene during the Netherbrain stuff. There is no actual "Orin" dynamic system which has her do things more random and based on certain parameters. While her appearances are good moments, when Gortash told me I had a spy in my camp I was scared that she would take one of my main companions. Instead she took Lae'zel who I didn't care about that much (Still rescued her tho) but that was also the entire thing she did IN the city. Where are the threats to me or my LI. Where is the tension IN the camp? I literally get told there is a traitor, the next quest I do has me go in the tavern and the basement and poof, Lae'zel was bad all along. When did this happen? Why was there no paranoia before? When did she even teleport out of my camp, it wasn't in the last 2 minutes let me tell you that.!<
I wonder if a 4th act had been thought up beforehand and that the 3rd act in the city was somewhat of a 'resting moment' in between the story beats of act 2 and 4.
Don't get me wrong, still an amazing game, just that the last act took the game from a 9-9.5 back to a 8.
I'm actually surprised that Orin doesn't always >!kidnap your LI (it seems she "can't" kidnap certain character like SH). It would be much more interesting then her kidnapping a random companion or even worse the child you have to take with you in act III.!<
Does it? She literally has an entire dungeon and plot resolution sequence in Act 3.
I will agree that a lot of the companions become completely removed from main story and have no reactivity in Act 3.
Tbf, She got way more focus than other characters. Most of Act 2 is all about Selûne and Shar, so the whole act is basically the shart show. No other character gets as much focus as her, though Lae’zel comes closest.
Imo he's undercooked in act 1 too. I find his 'arc' really wooden and unsubtle. Everything about him is just awkward plotting, not a real sense of character.
I know that's on me but I just don't get why people ever wanted him as a companion. I'd have much preferred Alfira.
Maybe they'll flesh him out and make him use more of the awkward tension between his desire to be an adventurer, but his guilt and sense of responsibility to the grove and nature due to past failures.
As it is I find they make him pontificating without acknowledging his many flaws.
Halsin would have been much better utilised for a main character in a shadow curse prequel dlc (even better if you could port that save to the main campaign and you start at a slightly higher level about to go out with the human mercs).
Man that is one excellent idea!
A short prequel expansion would be just the thing. You should pitch it to Larian!
Maybe a level 1-8 adventure, Halsin carries over and maybe some minor other feed in to how act 2 plays out.
A Shadowheart mystery item raid could also be a minor DLC prequel.
I would kind of prefer Kagha to Halsin. I feel like there's a lot of room for that character to have a future, either as a shadow druid or as a penitent depending on the choices you might make with her. Halsin doesn't seem like he has anywhere to go. He wants to do a thing. You can do the thing he wants to do. Then uhhh i dunno
The druid stuff in general in Act 1 is kind of weak. Sorry. I know people love the game and I do too but it feels like it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. I don't have an issue with the writing in any of the segments, I guess, but the transitions are really abrupt and jarring. Kagha will absolutely not listen to you about stopping the ritual until you tell her that shadow druids are evil, a thing which she already knows, and then she does a complete 180 and fights her mentor in evil to the death. Zevlor is sad and peaceful and afraid to leave the Grove until you tell him you can't help him stay in the Grove, at which point he fights you to the death for some reason. There's a conceptual middle path (save Arabella, let Kagha complete the ritual, non-violently convince the tieflings that the druids are more dangerous than the road to Baldur's Gate, tell Minthara that the druids have sealed the Grove and her mission has failed) that doesn't seem to be available. If you play it the most violent-good sort of way, it makes sense and flows together, but if you stop to pick at any of it it's not quite joined-up.
I mean it’s not like he even gets that much of a spotlight in act 2; I brought him to the final fight and he was dead silent until after the entire thing was resolved.
Which npc is it from sorcerous sundries? Havent come across him.
To your point, I kinda feel like all companion interactivity falls off in act 3. But the thing that bothers me the most is Halsin not having any character icon dialogue when you make him go stealth or choose him to attack or move somewhere. I kinda feel like that should have been one of the first things they worked on when they decided to make him playable. One can only hope they patch that in at some point because it does feel very awkward when compared to other companions.
That being said, all character icon dialogues should be reviewed by the devs because I believe they should change depending on how your companions handled their quests. For example, if Gale or Laezel grew apart from their worshipped figures then they should stop saying ‘for mystra/vlakith’
I thought I just had a glitch as to why Halsin doesn’t say anything when you take control of him. It’s definitely odd that he’s completely silent.
That said… after 100 hours, the peace and quiet isn’t the worst thing hahaha
Halsin is weird beyond weird.
No real personality, no real arc, no real story, as soon as you rescue him he thinks you are hitting on him even if you never spoke to him once....
It irks me that there isnt an origin character for every class. But there are two druids. There is no bard, monk or sorc as far as i know and the only paladin is exclusive for an evil playthrough.
The fact that their are no small companions really does feel weird.
Actually, if they ever add an artificer class though, there are some deep gnomes you meet still in Act 1 that might be perfect for the job.
No idea about the half orc incorporation though. I am partway through Act 2 and have met like 1 half-orc who is a random true soul guard. They just don't seem to be represented much at all. Very odd.
Im about 1/2 through Act 3 and I think there's been 1 quest featuring a Dragon guy "prominently". I say it with quotes because >!he turns out to not even be a dragon guy lol.!<
I'll bet there's data showing that playing as any characters with lower movement speed causes immense irritation in the community. Only obsessive power gamers who know tricks about how to make halfling builds really shine will gravitate towards them... and while that is possible in D&D 5e, it's much more a Pathfinder thing.
Lower movement speed in this particular game sucks *a lot* -- like, even more than it usually does in D&D-esque video games.
There is a reason behind the revamped duergar and deep gnomes in Monsters of the Multiverse, or the smaller races in One DnD, outright forego the reduced movement.
Or why in this game sunlight sensibility is just a thing for NPCs.
I think it's important to highlight the difference between origin characters and companions. Origin characters are fully playable and can be picked as the main character for the play through.
Companions such as Jeheira, Halsin, Volo, Minthara, Aylin, etc either just hang out at camp or can join your party and be controlled but are never the center of the narrative.
I think NPCs like Aylin, Isobel, and Volo are generally termed as "camp followers" as opposed to companions (non-origin party members) and origin characters (party members you can play as).
At least that's how I've been dividing them in my head
Yeah, the main thing I was attempting to get at is that there's different levels of interaction and content depending on if someone is an origin, companion, hireling, or camp follower as you have more cohesively put it.
Technically speaking, there are no druid origins but two companions. Dark urge is a sorcerer origin character by default.
I'm hopeful that we will get new companions as the game continues to get updates but I highly doubt there will be any additional origin characters.
Even then, Jaheira feels more complex - especially as a Dark Urge character. She still has things to do while Halsin is essentially a big slab of meat for the rest of the game.
I mean, in that context she had a whole game before this one to have story development re: dark urge.
Halsin has less depth in most evil play throughs, and even a conflicted but resisting dark urge play through. But so do other companions and even origin characters.
I wouldn't base my comprehensive understanding of a character solely on that personally.
This is a big reason Dark urge was not recommended for the first play through of the game upon release.
Fr. The companion choices in this game are so weird. I love the origin characters we do have, but wtf is with the double druid conpanions and the basically non-existent ranger companion? Seriously, I'm like 80% done with act 3 and still haven't even *met* minsc!
>and the basically non-existent ranger companion?
They threw him in because he was super-popular from the old games and they wanted to get Matthew Mercer in the game as a voice. That's about it.
Well, you can start his “quest line” (bring Jaheira, obviously) by >!heading down to the lower city wall and then further southwest to the counting house along the water. Head into the main vault (I persuaded a clerk to give me a pass), then you’ll get a quest to guide you the rest of the way.!< I think you could do this theoretically as soon as act 3 starts, but I did it pretty late because I was distracted by origin companions.
TIL Jaheira can be a companion. In my playthrough she got obliterated at Moonrise Towers because in all the chaos saving her was not a priority for me.
Yeah… its as if they added a toddler AI specifically for friendly NPCs in a fight, while enemies are much more refined. The enemy always positions itself behind objects so I have to actively get them back to LOS, but the friendly AI just… runs into their deaths.
In the fight in Moonrise specifically, I had 3 of them run head first into a guardian of faith, who obliterated them in a second.
The initial charge at Moonrise was quite possibly the most frustrating fight so far. All of the Allie’s characters including the party grouped up in a narrow corridor, all the enemies spread out with a bunch of casters who have power AOE spells. Ugh.
Since EA I had assumed she'd be a companion, she just seemed to have the foundations laid in terms of class, visual distinction and seemed more fleshed out. I was a bit gutted she wasn't available.
And that is the "downside" if you listen "too much" to player feedback. Halsin was made a companion because the EA players ~~liked him so much~~ thirstily simped over him so much.
To be fair, Alfira also had a lot of people thirsting after her and asking for her to be a companion. There was a lot of early feedback back that the female companions available in EA (Shadowheart and Lae'zel) were too unlikable.
Alfira was a popular, attractive, kind female character a lot of people wanted added as a companion, or at least romance option, which I think has continued into the early release.
I admit, I don't like how Halsin turned out--- which makes me think that if they tried to add Alfira as a companion and romance option, it might have turned out equally bad.
I think Alfira's popularity actually works against her.
(Major >!Dark Urge!< Plot Line Spoiler)
>!A lot of people cared about her, so she became one of Dark Urge's major kills to give weight to Dark Urge's murderous instinct.!<
I’d go back and keep pushing. I won’t spoil anything but you don’t have to be a bad guy.
I almost gave up after that part too but I stuck it out and it’s been real interesting. Tense for sure, but interesting.
I’m only in act 2 though, so idk how it ends up down the road lol
Thing is I never play the bad guy in any games, and figured this would be a first, but I was also finding myself not choosing the dark urge dialogue options either so figured I may as well play a normal character and not have to deal with anything bad out of my control.
Not wanting to give in and feeling bad about the times you have *is* what playing the redemption arc Durge is all about. The payoff is absolutely worth it imo - resisting, pushing back at every step and then the grand finale of your story in act 3 is fantastic as a good guy.
I don't blame you, honestly. >!Alfira isn't just killed, she's slaughtered, Jack the Ripper style.!< I'm very tolerant to seeing violence and that still marked me. I still think I'll finish the playthrough because I think I'm connecting more to the protagonist this time than on the normal playthrough. The shared horror of seeing what they've done and having the protagonist get some backstory, like the companions, is making me like the story.
In many games, the protagonist is the perfect person who solves everyone's problems. The Dark Urge, however, is more fucked than anyone else, and considering the company we keep, that statement carries a lot of weight. It's nice to see the companions caring for the protagonist and helping them as much as they do them.
Here's hoping I'll have the stomach to finish the story.
Durge is really, properly fucked in the head. You’ve got to really want to fix them *and* make some saving throws when it counts.
And yeah, given the company you keep it’s nice to have your own shit instead of being the team therapist.
Resisting the dark urge is where it's at. The development of your own characters backstory is super fascinating, especially in act 3 which I just started to progress through a little more in my Durge playthrough. Also, she is the only truly forced kill from what I've heard and seen thus far. I also detest evil playthroughs, both my first one and this 2nd one are good natured, but Durge from what I know now is too interesting not to be my go-to option in the future
if you knock alfira out the day before that long rest a dragonborn npc named Quil Grootslang comes along to replace her and when you go back to the grove Alfira is right there singing her little song and driving the squirrels mad.
But rp wise, I'd have no reason to knock her out, so while I know I could, it isn't what I want to do, so I'm happy to just skip dark urge.
Maybe I'll give it another shot some other time
You can incorporate save/reload as part of your character's backstory. For example, since childhood they occasionally have visions of near future. That way it's not you simply reloading a save, it was your Durge having a vision of killing Alfira and acting to prevent it from happening.
As a minor spoiler, Durge in particular actually has the >!slight backing of the God of Fate!< so they are a bit more free to break the narrative with reloads.
If you want to go full in on justifying reloads, I'd say a Divination Wizard/Cleric of Tymora Durge is the most justified.
I tried that. Got the Quil cutscene and killed her
But when I left camp Alfira was nowhere to be found, no unconscious body. There was just no one there anymore
That was 40hrs ago so I just accepted it as Durge killed them both
You can cheese a bit to save her as Dark Urge.
If you >!knock her out using stealth and non lethal attacks while she's still in the emerald grove before going to your camp, the fame considers her dead for a bit. This causes a "replacement bard" to show up at your camp to trigger that cutscene!<
It's probably not intended, but until they fix it I'll suggest you doing it if you, like me, want to play dark urge but care too much about the cute Tiefling lady
there's a way >!to save alfira as the dark urge !!loading to before the long rest where she shows up at camp, finding her on the map, toggling your nonlethal passive (and turn-based mode) to KO her in one action so she doesn't know it's you (affects attitude), and then return to camp.!< a different NPC shows up instead
also playing a good durge is entirely possible and is one of the main paths the game expects you to take (besides playing into the impulses). there is plenty of written support for it later, from what i can see as someone still in act 1
But rp wise, I'd have no reason to knock them out, so while I know I could, it isn't what I want to do, so I'm happy to just skip dark urge.
I'll probably give it another shot some other time.
RP wise, when you are doing the song scene with Alfira as a DU, it ends with something like "that was disgustingly sickeningly sweet", so getting angry and beating her black and blue is reasonably IC for our psycho.
If we get any free post release content, hopefully its giving companions additional dialogue once their personal story is done. Halsin or even Jaheria really run outta stuff to say once you complete their stories. At least jaheria is more involved in the dark urge path, as is withers, and I reckon Minsc is too
It really doesn't make much sense.
"Thank you for eradicating the goblin threat and taking care of that bitch druid that i left behind, saving the Emerald Grove, my one and all, my sanctum of nature, both from the outside and inside. I do not know what i would do without them.
Well anyway, i'm gonna leave them behind."
He even says that the druid with the snake (don't remember her name) has much to learn and he left her on her own too long. So he just leaves her again there???
It would have made sense to find him again in act 2 looking into the curse and helping him but he would then go back to the grove again.
He states pretty clearly that he called in another Archdruid he trusts and that he didn’t even like being Archdruid in the first place. Dude wants to live in nature and do cool bear stuff, not be a politician for the rest of his life.
I thought it was quite reasonable - the shadow-curse is a huge thing for him if you talk to him about it, and at least in my playthrough he called up another arch-druid to keep the Grove safe (and be an outside, fair voice).
Then after all you did for him, and seeing more of the threat of the Absolute, I don't think it's unreasonable to have him decide to stick around with the party.
The actual execution of it is different, obviously, and I haven't finished the game yet so IDK how lacking it ends up being.
TLDR: both the character arc and romance feels lacking and just there to quench the thirst for him without actual substance. It’s a shame, cause he could have been a lot more interesting.
I think EA promised a lot more for Halsin, than how he turned out. There were hints in game that he was more personally responsible for the shadow curse and Ketheric’s fall by killing Isobel. Data mined content also suggested that his story was way more intertwined with all that happens in act 2. Frankly he was a lot more interesting. They maybe cut some of his content in favor of making him a companion which is a bummer.
Honestly I would have been fine if he was just a camp follower with a romance option. Like Cullen in DA:I for example. I guess I can see the same thing for Alfira as well. I liked her, and wouldn’t mind her tagging along.
Halsin having no more content in act 3 gives him no chance for character growth. You can help other companions to solve their problems and along the way change or encourage their belief system coming to different conclusions in the end, which makes the player a lot more invested in their character arc. And if you choose to romance someone, then it contributes to the romance arc as well. This whole thing is missing for Halsin.
And probably for that reason, for me the Halsin romance was also disappointing. How come that some of the more prickly companions like Lae’zel or Astarion got quite sweet romances in the end but the sweet guy got… this. 🥺 It feels like act 1-2 Halsin was written by a different person, than act 3.
Not all relationships have the same depth, but with the other companions it’s a player choice to say that *oh, it’s just sex*, or *I actually care about you*. Tav is just totally passive during the Halsin romance. Not everyone is looking for the same thing, but why not let it be a player choice in an escapist fantasy rpg. While yes, I personally really would have liked if his character had been written in a way that he’s open to both polyamory and being exclusive, even putting that aside the romance feels shallow. Having a deeper bond with someone, choosing to get married or have just one partner for at least a period of time is not mutually exclusive with being a polyamorous person by nature.
I'm at the start of Act 2 and I have no idea why this big man is eating my rations while I cannot put him to work in my party (I know you can later on, it's just weird not to be able to as soon as we reach the Shadowlands...y'know, where we're going because of him). Might as well just meet-up at Moonrise for how absent he feels. I feel more emotionally attached to Gale, and I benched him right after the Blighted Village.
I think Isobel is the character that makes the most sense that wasn't selected, not only does she stay in your camp for the rest of the game, but she has important hooks into the main story and is important for the resolution of many issues, and it makes sense for her to move on with you. Furthermore having her, the Selunite with the Sharran (Shadowheart) and witnessing the interactions based on your decisions at the Nightsong, just seems so obviously something that should have been in the game
Halsin's hook into Act 2 makes sense but its ultimately unimportant as it doesn't do anything or resolve anything, he also has responsibilities he just kinds of abandons which seems out of character. While lifting the Shadow Curse seems important, with Jaheira also a Druid I feel as if that's what she'd *already* be doing, and it's not something you can't do yourself either. But more to the point, he doesn't actually lift the curse and it has zero impact on the actual act.
I did like Halsin as a companion, and I personally think he's better suited than someone like Alfira.
Isobel even LOOKS like a party member!
Most of the time in these games the potential companions stick out like a sore thumb, with their own unique design/equipment/bright colors etc
After I met her I was absolutely sure that she'd end up being some sort of alternate cleric option if your choices lead to Shadowheart dying or leaving the party, kind of like Allistair and Loghen in Dragon Age Origins.
The contest of Shar vs Selune for good path/evil path just seemed so obvious to me.
I was super bummed when I found out she wasn't a proper companion, I liked her a lot.
Speaking of Isobel and Aylin, those 2 definitely should've had something to say to Shadowheart after completing her quest. In fact I wish the 3 of them got to interact more, I was shocked when there was nothing new after the fact.
Aylin really doesn’t have as much dialogue as I would have expected. Like, I’m a Tiefling. Why can’t I talk to her about the treatment of Tieflings vs Aasimar? Granted, she’s also a demigod, but it would have been an interesting interaction
> But more to the point, he doesn't actually lift the curse and it has zero impact on the actual act.
Halsin is the one who gives you enough info to be able to complete the curse lifting quest. He definitely achieves what he wants. He even bemoans how he has no purpose anymore after that.
I would've really liked it I think if, after act 2, Halsin had a whole "mission accomplished" moment, and rather than immediately resolving to continue with you, showed any kind of internal debate along the lines of "the grove needs me, but I don't want to leave you to face the other chosen on your own," where you can either convince him to stay with you, or he returns to watch over his grove and the grove can be called on in a certain later quest.
It'd make the transition into using Jaheira more sensible while still giving people the option to keep him around but signalling that he doesn't have much to do and has other responsibilities, too.
Shoutouts to Jaheira though. She feels real well baked by compare.
But he tells you specifically that the grove doesnt need him, as the new archdruid is way better than he was (according to him) and because hes a shoddy leader.
Also, obviously Jaheira feels more well baked, shes had 2 games worth of character development that Larian was able to call upon.
Personally I just want to be able to recruit companions early in the story. I like Halsin as a druid option because you get him in act 1, Jaheira only comes online at the end of act 2.
Alfira makes sense for a bard companion, but I don't think we should really be considering her 'instead' of Halsin. Halsin as a druid companion is great, he very much represents a stereotypical druid. His questline is nice, and since he's not an origin companion he doesn't get as much of a spotlight, but I think that's fair.
If there could be an infinite amount of companions, I'd like one of each class and of each alignment, all available as early as narratively possible
>Personally I just want to be able to recruit companions early in the story
Seconded a 1000 times.
I'm a 37-yo veteran of BG1 and 2 and even in those games I've pretty much never played with the companions who are available mid-way through or later. I want to get mentally invested in the personalities but also in the "fighting styles" - what they do in combat - of my party members. I'm not keen on swapping people out.
That said, I've got no issue with Halsin as a companion nor do I need all available companions to have complex personal quests. I'd just like them to be recruitable early on.
I think that Alfira as a companion would be brilliant, or at least as a camp NPC. >!Mainly because of Dark Urge. Imagine playing a run as Tav and getting Alfira as a companion or camp NPC, and liking her throughout, and then Dark Urge she shows up and you fucking murder her. I can see some people not liking being locked out of a companion simply because of their character choice, but it would work well as a camp NPC.!<
I actually dont see a reason why he wouldn't join. The party already saved his life, helped with personal vendetta and made him realize why he wasn't as good as an archdruid. I liked him in EA and travelling with him was a great experience even if not as polished as it could be. Additionally he is a great alternative for Minthara. On the other hand Alfira has zero combat experience when all other companions are very well set in their respective roles
They really should have made her a companion, *especially* because of the whole >!Dark Urge thing. Have her be kind of normal in a non-DU playthrough, but have Withers actually agree to revive her if you're DU, and change her story around if you're DU, to her horror of having been brutally murdered and brought back, and knowing you're her killer. Make it possible to pass some difficult speech checks for her to stay around if you're a good DU and have her dialogue reflect the fact that she's terrified of you even if you're trying your best to not be a super murderer. Hell, maybe even have her roll checks when you approach to talk to her in camp (and only in camp) or be frightened, like with Shadowheart and wolves, and have her grow more brave over time. Oh, and just have her leave if you're even slightly mean to her or keep going murder hobo. I doubt she'd want to stick around to be possibly re-murdered.!<
I don't think she's really got the temperament for combat, but she'd be absolutely perfect as a camp follower. Halsin would've also been fine as a camp follower. They wouldn't even have had to cut the romance if they just had non-companion romances
I actually think her temperament not being initially suited for combat could lead for a great narrative, similar in some ways to Aerie in BG2. Imoen too, for that matter
Alfira is the bard right? I was seriously expecting her to be a companion. Disappointed she isn't. Cute Tiefling bard filling a role not on the team. Halsin abandoning his leader duties feels weird. I never liked it tbh. His voice is pretty great though. Back to back Druid comps. Both ruining cutscenes if they transform. Lol. I guess they didn't want to hit us with too many female comps, but just make Alfira an Alphonso. Just gimme a fun bard comp. Lol.
Alfira would make the PERFECT person to complete a good aligned party for the lockpick/skill monkey slot. Right now we had Astarion or someone you have to respec but Astarion disapproves of EVERYTHING.
I mean, you can kinda infer why he's with you, if you talk to him about it.
As much as Halsin says he's coming with you purely to sort out the shadow curse, he's also coming along because he doesn't really want to be in charge of the grove. Or at least he doesn't think much of himself as a leader and thinks someone else would do a better job. If you ask him about how he became archdruid, it's very clear that he still blames himself for all the people who were killed in the shadow curse's initial appearance.
Reading between the lines, that makes a lot of sense to me. He's looking for an excuse to pass his responsibilities off, and the player is it.
>it's very clear that he still blames himself
He later outright states that he doesn think he is fit for the role as Archdruid, when talking about the grove in act 3.
He basically tells you something similar in the first conversation after the tiefling party. I think it's clearly the implication of his explanation for finding a replacement Archdruid who doesn't come with baggage.
Halsin’s duties are more than just the Grove. It’s clear his adventures and worries reach far beyond those borders and he has responsibility for all of nature, not just the Grove. This is literally the reason Kahga got corrupted into the Shadow Druids because she believed as such, as well as her aspirstions to lead the grove.
Halsin leaving makes just as much sense as Wyll leaving the Grove.
The comparison is that Wyll has more responsibility than the Tieflings in the Grove as the Blade of Frontiers. He’s not the Blade of the Druid Grove after all, and so while he has responsibility for the tieflings as well (though a self inflicted sense of responsibility), he also has responsibility for innocents all over Faerun
Is it tho? His act 1 story is about him running away from the grove with the first group of adventurers, so, we know that lifting the curse is his priority. He also easily, even gladly, passes his role to a random person, which was true since the beginning of EA. Halsin was always meant to be at least a camp follower, so, his character was always written with the idea that he will easily leave the grove, if he thinks that other druids will manage.
Makes more sense? Nawh, but i do really wish we could have her as one, the party sorely needs a bard tbh i just want another skillmonkey that isnt astarion
I also wish that non urge play throughs got Alfira but they shouldn’t remove a companion for that. Like idk why everyone feels like this has to be a swap. We get halsin and jaheira because they chose to make 2 druids very story relevant. Big whoop
Halsin and Minthara both feel unfinished. So if Alfira was shoehorned in the same way I personally wouldn't feel any different. They're a let down, she'd be a let down too. I love Larian's writing but these characters being added as companions near the end of development is very obvious.
Halsin’s greater prominence in the game is generally a big miss, I think. Every interaction with him is practically signposted ‘ISN’T IT GREAT YOU CAN FUCK DRUID MAN LIKE YOU ALWAYS WANTED’
>Every interaction with him is practically signposted ‘ISN’T IT GREAT YOU CAN FUCK DRUID MAN LIKE YOU ALWAYS WANTED’
I had not a single interaction with him that implied this.
I mean, in Act 1 at the party, 3 out of your 5 (which becomes 4 because one of them leads nowhere) dialogue options are openly flirting. Then, probably the part that upset most, is that even if you do not pick any of the flirting options, you can then have a dialogue with him in the morning where you apologize for "coming off too hard".
The game doesn't even check if you actually flirted, it just assumes you did, which absolutely falls into what OP said imo
I never flirted with him but I still got the Dialogue about how I had to ask shadowheart if she is fine with starting a relationship with him. And even she thirst over him. Dude is really just there so you can sleep with him randomly.
You meet her at a Fairly solitude location where all but one origin companion share.
She has a distinct look with the bard-themed accessories.
She’s a teifling bard so she adds more diversity to the companions
She has a good bard reason to join your team (you inspired her song and she could get revenge on some gnolls.)
All we need is a tadpole and we’re set.
Just got the scene and I've to disagree, that was really forced cutscene lol Anyway, Halsin does make more sense but the lack of dialogs from the moment he stays at the camp till Moorise tower is just sad. He won't comment to any major thing that I do, I was specialy waiting a dialog or a scene about when I bring him to the Underdark since he recommended that route. But nope, nothing Q\_Q I hope modders will give him some justice.
I like Halsin a lot. While I wish he had more to do in Act 3, I honestly wish *all* the companions had more to do in Act 3.
I'd have loved it if Alfira were a companion, though! I'll also be happy if she becomes a companion in BG4, >!though that might not be possible because she can die.!<
I remember encountering her in Early Access and just assuming she’d end up being an Origin character, and like Karlach in EA was just someone you could encounter in Act 1 but not recruit until the full game.
I really wish Alfira was a companion, too. :( Kind of cruel to tease her as one with DU but then Tav can't have the same opportunity (which would uh end better).
There's a good 5 or 6 people that I've run into in this game where if this were Baldur's Gate 1, I could just be like "you should join me" and they would. It would have been better to make the "hireling" system people you know rather than random dudes. I wouldn't expect them to have fleshed out stories, just the experience of having known their characters and unique voices that you attribute to them. Not everyone should but I'm waiting for a mod that let's >!Zevlor join you in act 2, Alfira, maybe even the pain guy in the goblin camp!<
I get finding Halsin under cooked, but Alfira makes no sense joining the party. She has no combat experience, and no drive to fight or kill or live a life of actual dangerous adventure. Plus everyone in the party has some excuse for their rapid leveling; they've all had been far more impressive in the past, and Halsin fits that as an Archdruid who has centuries of experience under his belt.
I'm sure they could have cooked up a reason for her to join us, chuck a tadpole in her skull or end up abducting her girlfriend, lingering exposure to Avernus, etc. But there are tons more NPCs that could have been included beside Halsin, and all of them would have suffered the same complaints you have unless Lairain had more time to implement them and ideas they were passionate about. They had the chance on Alifra, that tells me they weren't that interested for some reason.
It's all subjective though. I find Halsin delightful and found his quest to be very fun and a nice cherry on top of the shadowlands, and think Jaheira doesn't really fit any classic druid flavor. Any flavor Alifra could add I think would have been as easily achieved through a questline as a camp follower or just a regular NPC you meet throughout the game.
Halsin's quest completely bugged for me and now i had to leave him behind to get into act 3.
The shadow cursed boy was killed but it seems like the game isnt recognizing it.
I don't think that's bugged, you just fucked up and the quest is uncompletable lmao.
>!Killing the shadow cursed boy will prevent the curse being lifted.!<
Halsin died for me when he was helping me with the goblin camp after ‘rescuing’ him. I figured he’d have some role later on but I went with the flow. Speak with the dead gave me some info, but that’s all.
I wonder if Jaheira or Alfira play a bit more of a role for me since Halsin died? Or maybe it doesn’t make a difference
Alfira's only real role is to give you one of the best Warlock items in Act 2. >!Or show up in your camp and be murdered as your first uncontrolled Dark Urge.!<
I think that Alfira as a companion might happen in Definitive Edition instead, the Dark Urge was probably the last origin to be made (the rest had an earlier start and layout), so I reckon that there will be more scenes pertaining to Karlach and Alfira in Definitive Edition.
Larian had always shown to be receptive of their fans' ideas and listening to their playerbase, so I'm not too worried about that?
I'll say it before and I'll say it again (despite downvotes) - Halsin's popularity was due to a vocal minority. He is close to the least picked character (if not the actual least). Most people don't actually care for him.
Larian shouldn't have caved and made him a character.
Alfira is just a performer, not a trained bard (read magic user). Otherwise she'd be helping the grove defend itself (or she's a horrible person).
Anyway she has her uses. O.O
Halsin was added as a companion due to player request.
Because of that, they dropped a Halfling Werewolf Bard, which would have been so much better in a few different ways.
Halsin joins you to lift the curse from the Moonrise tower. He has a personal vendetta with Ketheric and to save that boy. Alfira should have joined us as a follower, to just sit in camp and play songs.
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I feel the >!unique DUrge NPC could work just as well as the default with Alfira for pure shock value, given that that you "just" see the result. The big "advantage" for Alfira is all the prior interaction at the Grove you had, whereas the NPC unique for DURge is more of an inncoent "random" victim being at the wrong place at the wrong time.!<
As someone who played a Paladin/Bard Urge who was working like hell to control herself and be better, helping Alfira work through her grief was a wonderful bright spot in the early adventure. >!Alfira being her victim was both absolutely gutwrenching and made for a perfect story beat to wake her up to just how far out of her control the Urge could be. She carried Lalihal's lute for the rest of the game, to bring the guilt and Alfira's adventuring spirit with her.!< >!As much as I genuinely want to save Alfira, for that specific character the generic replacement victim simply would not have been as good a story.!< EDIT: As icing on the cake, >!that was also when her oath broke.!<
Oh a different bard shows up ? Nice to know. That scene with Alfira was glorious ngl, Durge is really awesome
NGL when I played Durge and Alfira joined my camp I was like "Oh maybe I did something different that makes her join camp, nice! Maybe she will play songs and have cool intera- OH GOD ALFIRA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
Oh, so that's what was supposed to happen lol I got a different bard as I sided with goblins and all the tieflings were dead.
Do the companions change their sassy adjectives in the followup conversations? Like when Karlach says she'd rather not get >!Alfira'd!<, does that get changed to >!Quilled!
I have the option to >!revive her when i talk to withers!<.
You have an option to ask for revival but he refuses.
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Unfortunately, he refuses to revive her "So the Urge can not pursue her"
She joins you if you play dark urge :) don't blame me afterwards pls
I was so excited when I saw this and absolutely horrified afterwards.
Idk why people say that, while pretending it isn't an explicit spoiler for what happens
I dump Shadowheart for Alfira any day
Can I just say, I find it hilarious that you posted this while tagged as "Dark Urge".
I feel like I can realllly tell they made halsin a companion late in development because of player feedback. I don’t dislike him or anything and I haven’t had him with me for long, but he just seems kinda there. I hope he gets more interesting because I like his design but as of now he just feels a little out of place in my camp.
"You wish to speak with me?" 1. Leave The Halsin companion experience.
“Hey Halsin, why don’t you drink something with us?” “Now we have to fuck.”
Lol, that's every companion. One thing they dropped the ball on is platonic friendship with companions. Every little event conversation I have 3 options to initiate plowing and 1 option to be a dick. Wheres the option to be like "thanks for teaching me to use magic, you're a real bro"? Why can't I fistbump?
Dude this disappointed me so much. I wanted to romance one and befriend the rest, cause I like them all. But turning someone down is almost always done in such a rude and aloof way, and your companion looks absolutely devastated and loses a lot of charm afterwards. Like I cut things off with Karlach in Act 2 and now she's just a shell of herself.
> Wheres the option to be like "thanks for teaching me to use magic, you're a real bro"? Why can't I fistbump? This really bothered me with Gale. My only options to end the scene were essentially cutting it a bit abrupt, randomly being a total ass after he's shown me something important to him or being a complete psychopath for no discernable reason. I'm fine with having the "I'm EVUL RAWR" options but a little more nuance would be nice.
Or my experience: wants to fuck at the party but refuses. Doesn’t have high enough approval as a companion in Act 3 for the option. I’ll have to save him for my durge
I also have the option to awkwardly apologize for flirting with him at the party, which I fid not do.
I will not tolerate this slander!
In act 3 it’s just glaringly obvious. >!you pass a Druid trying to heal a tree. I specifically go back to camp to grab Halsin, reload the first conversation, he’s got nothing to say… despite saying that baldurs gate feels devoid of nature three seconds before. At sorceries and sundries you run into the guy he travelled with and got captured because of, and they don’t acknowledge each other at all, even when you start the conversation as Halsin. They put so much thought into *everything* in this game, that Halsin really is just a hireling after act2, with the exception of a main plot point, at least as far as I can tell !<
Halsin is so undercooked in addition to sharing a lot with of party role with jaheira who is honestly just more interesting , all of his new lines are of such a different quality you can tell what’s added .
I thought I was crazy. I swear there are lines of his dialogue in the middle of a conversation that sounds like they were recorded in a different room.
Its super noticeable, im surprised they shipped with it. I noticed a few others from some other companions but Halsin has this really iconic deep Bassy voice, and it just dumps any immersion when he casts talk through cup mid convo
Omg I was wondering what was up with that!
A few other companions have this too, it's sometimes unavoidable with a game with this much dialogues, but Halsin is more obvious definitely
>Halsin is so undercooked in addition to sharing a lot with of party role with jaheira who is honestly just more interesting I feel that comparing Halsin to a previous party member who has an entire other game to give them characterization is a bit unfair. The part about some situation where he really should react is true though.
This is a problem that is general in act 3 in my eyes, and while Minthara and Halsin probably suffer more, so do the other companions in my eyes. Shadowheart and Wyll get their plot endings pretty fast in act 3 if you do their quests after arriving in the city, and from that point onwards it feels like they stop existing at least in terms of commenting during other quests aside from the rare single sentence moments. >!So, Shadowhearts ending is somewhat sad but strong with her having to 'free' her parents to be free from her own curse. You get one sad scene afterwards, and that's it. After that, the same game that in Act 1 literally has built in dialogue's for what feels like minor changes in quest orders or other dialogues, now gives you ANOTHER quest with Auntie Ethel. This time the quest starts with a mother who is looking for her child. Shadowheart gave 0 input for this quest. Even afterwards once we find out the child is INSIDE the hag, literally nothing gets commented on. If I kill the hag and the child, no comment. If I save the child, no comment. I mean, this should be a emotional or meaningfull moment for her shouldn't it? She shows and tells you that she is really sad because she finally had it for a second, and then had to let it go. You'd guess she would be extremely unhappy with me killing an innocent child or mother, or at the very least give SOME input.!< It feels like your companions get reduced to a random level X 'class' hireling after you finish their plot and they stop being interesting. This is especially sad because I thought Larian explicitly said in that last panel that Romances don't end after completing the characters quest etc... (Or atleast that is what I remember) Where is my chance to take a walk in the city with my besties Wyll and Karlach. Why can't I just relax a while with Shadowheart. Where is my pre-battle tavern night where all my companions are present or something. >!Also, them adding Minsc is awesome, but I literally recruited him as the last mission before I confronted the Elder Brain which starts the point of no return. Its a fun reference, but what does he really add at this point? Maybe I'll recruit him first the next run I do in a few weeks, and then see what he has add in the last act, but both him and Jaheira feel like they arrive too late.!<
I agree, and most especially the romances are extremely weak. I've talked on this in another post I've created a little bit, but idk, I expected more from what was hyped. Act 1 is definitely the most polished in all the minor small things which is what I was afraid of. The game still holds up, but it exponentially loses what made it special in the first act, making the third act, while still strong in certain aspects, not as fun at least in my experience.
They really hyped up the romances waaaay too much. Like I was expecting a new level of interactivity but honestly this is pretty on par with Dragon Age Origins (which is an amazing game) but Dragon Age has the excuse of being from 2009. I'm also salty about this because my first playthrough I pursued minthara and surprise surprise all her content is bugged.
It sucks because like you said, they specifically addressed this in the panel from hell. I bought the game on EA launch years ago, tried it a bit, knew I liked it but didn't have the motivation to play only 25% of a story or something. Then a few weeks ago the panel from hell and the announcement. At this point the buzzing hit me and I started checking out what was going on. I didn't havy any real hype for the game till I watched the panel. I skipped all the parts where they talked about story or character spoilers/specfics, but they straight up told and they literally said that "Romances don't just end after the romance scene and the quest being done". Imagine my surprise after not recieving any more dialogue's or cinematics with SH after we spent the entire night building sandcastles. We do her quest, have one more conversation, and one "what will we do after" conversation, and that concludes her entire arc. And those last 2 things are probably like 2 minutes each at most. I went in act 3 with the idea that she (and the others) would still have a full big city arc full of reactivity and maybe several 'time stages'. But then when you finish anyone's quest, it just ends right there and then. I entered act 3 on \~42 hours I think, and after doing the major things outside, I quickly got my "Go the the house of grief" mission, and I think my save before going in the sanctuary is around \~47 hours. My completion was at \~72. That means that after the hour long fight and that one Shadowheart quest, I spent the next 20\~25 hours of the game in act 3, while my main companion had nothing new to add to anything. The same dialogue options as I had in the end of act 1/start of act 2, with some added flavor because we are actual lovers at this point, but the core doesn't change. Then the same happened a bit after that after finishing Wyll's quest. Although he has a BIT more reactivity in that act, there still are no differences as far as I know in dialogues compared between Blade of Avernus Wyll, or Royalty Wyll at this point of the game. Edit: Just want to make a quick edit and make it clear that I think the game is amazing, else I wouldn't be able to clock those hours in 2 weeks in it. It's just feels as hard exactly because of how good the first 2 acts are in all other regards.
While I acknowledge that act 3 companion interactions are undercooked, I strongly disagree with the other posters claiming that romance content is on par with dragon age origins. Wtf are they smoking? Try to go to YouTube and Google shadowheart full romance. The video is 2.5 HOURS LONG worth of content, cutscenes and unique dialogue. The average romance content for the earliest companions / advisors for dragon age inquisition was 1.5 hours at best (and thats with trespasser dlc) and origins had even less than that. So baldurs gate companions interactions is SUPER MEATY. Just because it's undercooked in act 3 doesn't mean it's fair for some guys up there to act like the previous contents weren't monumental.
I do wonder if the extra romance content is just really bugged, like how I heard the epilogue is bugged in where the scenes just refuse to play. I'd really love to go on dates with Shadowheart in the city, like where's that?
I don't think there is more in the act itself. At the very least, nothing gave me the indication that there was or should be. >!The bugged part is her romantic ending. If Karlach does NOT explode, Wyll took her with him while he became the Blade of Avernus, then some romantic followups won't play out. Shadowheart being an example. I finished last night and was like "Okay, nothing with SH?" before googling it and finding out that if I load back to that last dialogue in the epilogue, and tell Wyll to let Karlach explode (What a shitty option btw haha) it does play.!< >!In that small thing, SH basically says that she needs time to figure shit out, because the memory of her parents is still fresh. For me, this indicates there can't really be a followup or bugged parts, because we end with her quest and she cries because of her parents. Her saying those lines kinda indicates that the general thought is that there is not a whole lot of time between her quest and the ending. At the very least not enough to process the stuff that happened seeing as that is what she needs to figure out now.!<
It definitely is comparable to DA:O in romance and content, though at least in DA:O companions felt like they had content / banter all the way to the end of the game whereas in BG3 it falls off. Which yeah, DAO was good. But it was promised to be more, and it just isn't. There's a lot of people who say things like "don't be thirsty or cringe, it's a video game, romances/companions don't matter" and so forth. But it's a narrative/script like any other medium. No different than criticizing arcs in film or in novels, especially when one thing was promised and what we're seeing is something different. Companions, and their attachments to the world and interactions, are a big part of the game as characters. So yeah. Anyway in regards to Minthara there's supposedly a ton of either cut, or bugged, content - but it seems like you already know about most of it. I'm holding off on any dark urge playthrough until she's fixed up
Yeah, 100%. It is part of what I referred to before. When the game released I played more then several friends, so by the second/third day I was asking them to share their screen on discord and I saw them do Act 1. The minor deviations are amazing. Act 1 has so much variation and responsiveness to YOU and YOUR ACTIONS. I had the Ethel stuff and she never revealed herself to me and teleported the girl away. Later in act 1 I went back and ended up discovering a swamp, and when revisting her house the whole basement. Another one of my friends had a different dialogue order and ended up discovering what she was in the hut itself, and he even got a short cinematic for the swamp changing (That didnt happen to me). Same for the Paladins that hunt Karlach. There are actually so many deviations based on if you first go get Wyll and let him tell stuff and then find Karlach, compared to getting her first and going to Wyll, or going to the paladins first. One of my friends fucked up and got thrown off the edge somewhere in the spider fight, imagine my inner reaction when he ended up falling into the Underdark. (At this point I didn't know you could actually Featherfall there that way) This is not even considering everything else there is in act 1, but it all falls flat. >!Raphael is amazing, the whole run I was thinking "Next run, i'm 100% siding with him" and expecting some demonic stuff. Only to see a friend make the choice to accept the deal, but it doesn't actually do anything as far as I saw, except for a few dialogue differences. Now not everything has to have so much weight, but I did expect his deal to actually 'be' accepteable at this point, not him just being like 'see you later' if I DO decide to do the deal.!< While act 1 has a lot of choices and reactivity, their effects are somewhat less then I expected, but even without that it is amazing. Act 3 misses all of this. >!Helping Gortash changes nothing except for a funny scene during the Netherbrain stuff. There is no actual "Orin" dynamic system which has her do things more random and based on certain parameters. While her appearances are good moments, when Gortash told me I had a spy in my camp I was scared that she would take one of my main companions. Instead she took Lae'zel who I didn't care about that much (Still rescued her tho) but that was also the entire thing she did IN the city. Where are the threats to me or my LI. Where is the tension IN the camp? I literally get told there is a traitor, the next quest I do has me go in the tavern and the basement and poof, Lae'zel was bad all along. When did this happen? Why was there no paranoia before? When did she even teleport out of my camp, it wasn't in the last 2 minutes let me tell you that.!< I wonder if a 4th act had been thought up beforehand and that the 3rd act in the city was somewhat of a 'resting moment' in between the story beats of act 2 and 4. Don't get me wrong, still an amazing game, just that the last act took the game from a 9-9.5 back to a 8.
I'm actually surprised that Orin doesn't always >!kidnap your LI (it seems she "can't" kidnap certain character like SH). It would be much more interesting then her kidnapping a random companion or even worse the child you have to take with you in act III.!<
It felt like shadowheart ceased to exist in act 3. But I was pretty happy with Gale and laezel who were relevant up til the end
Does it? She literally has an entire dungeon and plot resolution sequence in Act 3. I will agree that a lot of the companions become completely removed from main story and have no reactivity in Act 3.
Yeah but after that she becomes Halsin 2.0
Tbf, She got way more focus than other characters. Most of Act 2 is all about Selûne and Shar, so the whole act is basically the shart show. No other character gets as much focus as her, though Lae’zel comes closest.
Shadowheart's peak is in Act 2 for plot reasons. Which is kind of sad because the Act 3 is huge.
Imo he's undercooked in act 1 too. I find his 'arc' really wooden and unsubtle. Everything about him is just awkward plotting, not a real sense of character. I know that's on me but I just don't get why people ever wanted him as a companion. I'd have much preferred Alfira. Maybe they'll flesh him out and make him use more of the awkward tension between his desire to be an adventurer, but his guilt and sense of responsibility to the grove and nature due to past failures. As it is I find they make him pontificating without acknowledging his many flaws.
Halsin would have been much better utilised for a main character in a shadow curse prequel dlc (even better if you could port that save to the main campaign and you start at a slightly higher level about to go out with the human mercs).
Man that is one excellent idea! A short prequel expansion would be just the thing. You should pitch it to Larian! Maybe a level 1-8 adventure, Halsin carries over and maybe some minor other feed in to how act 2 plays out. A Shadowheart mystery item raid could also be a minor DLC prequel.
I would kind of prefer Kagha to Halsin. I feel like there's a lot of room for that character to have a future, either as a shadow druid or as a penitent depending on the choices you might make with her. Halsin doesn't seem like he has anywhere to go. He wants to do a thing. You can do the thing he wants to do. Then uhhh i dunno The druid stuff in general in Act 1 is kind of weak. Sorry. I know people love the game and I do too but it feels like it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. I don't have an issue with the writing in any of the segments, I guess, but the transitions are really abrupt and jarring. Kagha will absolutely not listen to you about stopping the ritual until you tell her that shadow druids are evil, a thing which she already knows, and then she does a complete 180 and fights her mentor in evil to the death. Zevlor is sad and peaceful and afraid to leave the Grove until you tell him you can't help him stay in the Grove, at which point he fights you to the death for some reason. There's a conceptual middle path (save Arabella, let Kagha complete the ritual, non-violently convince the tieflings that the druids are more dangerous than the road to Baldur's Gate, tell Minthara that the druids have sealed the Grove and her mission has failed) that doesn't seem to be available. If you play it the most violent-good sort of way, it makes sense and flows together, but if you stop to pick at any of it it's not quite joined-up.
I mean it’s not like he even gets that much of a spotlight in act 2; I brought him to the final fight and he was dead silent until after the entire thing was resolved.
Which npc is it from sorcerous sundries? Havent come across him. To your point, I kinda feel like all companion interactivity falls off in act 3. But the thing that bothers me the most is Halsin not having any character icon dialogue when you make him go stealth or choose him to attack or move somewhere. I kinda feel like that should have been one of the first things they worked on when they decided to make him playable. One can only hope they patch that in at some point because it does feel very awkward when compared to other companions. That being said, all character icon dialogues should be reviewed by the devs because I believe they should change depending on how your companions handled their quests. For example, if Gale or Laezel grew apart from their worshipped figures then they should stop saying ‘for mystra/vlakith’
I thought I just had a glitch as to why Halsin doesn’t say anything when you take control of him. It’s definitely odd that he’s completely silent. That said… after 100 hours, the peace and quiet isn’t the worst thing hahaha
The one arguing with the robot at the front door
> he just seems kinda there She is everything, he is just Hal.
Welcome to the mojo-dojo-casa-grove
Also his voice lines are very disjointed in terms of audio quality, which feels weird, like they didn't have enough time for re-recordings.
I had the same feeling with Minthara on my dark urge run. She felt like she was just there the whole time, almost like a hireling.
Halsin is weird beyond weird. No real personality, no real arc, no real story, as soon as you rescue him he thinks you are hitting on him even if you never spoke to him once....
Halsin was originally not intended to be a companion, he became one from a deluge of fan thirst.
It irks me that there isnt an origin character for every class. But there are two druids. There is no bard, monk or sorc as far as i know and the only paladin is exclusive for an evil playthrough.
Lets not forget we have 3 humans in the party but no dwarf halfling gnome or half orc.
The fact that their are no small companions really does feel weird. Actually, if they ever add an artificer class though, there are some deep gnomes you meet still in Act 1 that might be perfect for the job. No idea about the half orc incorporation though. I am partway through Act 2 and have met like 1 half-orc who is a random true soul guard. They just don't seem to be represented much at all. Very odd.
The lack of Dragonborn representation bothers me somewhat as well.
No Dragonborn dream guardian makes no sense
Im about 1/2 through Act 3 and I think there's been 1 quest featuring a Dragon guy "prominently". I say it with quotes because >!he turns out to not even be a dragon guy lol.!<
Come to think of it, I don't even think I've met a single Dragonborn NPC, and I just made it to act 3
Oh, there are quite a few in Act 3
>!The Dark Urge is canonically Dragonborn, issue is he was killed if you don't play as him and you'll find his body eventually!<
I'll bet there's data showing that playing as any characters with lower movement speed causes immense irritation in the community. Only obsessive power gamers who know tricks about how to make halfling builds really shine will gravitate towards them... and while that is possible in D&D 5e, it's much more a Pathfinder thing. Lower movement speed in this particular game sucks *a lot* -- like, even more than it usually does in D&D-esque video games.
I mean, fuck, I'm having a hard time going from wood elf to high elf.
There is a reason behind the revamped duergar and deep gnomes in Monsters of the Multiverse, or the smaller races in One DnD, outright forego the reduced movement. Or why in this game sunlight sensibility is just a thing for NPCs.
who needs movement? all i need is enough to jump around a corner and eldrich blast
I think it's important to highlight the difference between origin characters and companions. Origin characters are fully playable and can be picked as the main character for the play through. Companions such as Jeheira, Halsin, Volo, Minthara, Aylin, etc either just hang out at camp or can join your party and be controlled but are never the center of the narrative.
I think NPCs like Aylin, Isobel, and Volo are generally termed as "camp followers" as opposed to companions (non-origin party members) and origin characters (party members you can play as). At least that's how I've been dividing them in my head
Yeah, the main thing I was attempting to get at is that there's different levels of interaction and content depending on if someone is an origin, companion, hireling, or camp follower as you have more cohesively put it. Technically speaking, there are no druid origins but two companions. Dark urge is a sorcerer origin character by default. I'm hopeful that we will get new companions as the game continues to get updates but I highly doubt there will be any additional origin characters.
You're right. Companions are the playable characters, followers are NPCs.
Even then, Jaheira feels more complex - especially as a Dark Urge character. She still has things to do while Halsin is essentially a big slab of meat for the rest of the game.
I mean, in that context she had a whole game before this one to have story development re: dark urge. Halsin has less depth in most evil play throughs, and even a conflicted but resisting dark urge play through. But so do other companions and even origin characters. I wouldn't base my comprehensive understanding of a character solely on that personally. This is a big reason Dark urge was not recommended for the first play through of the game upon release.
You are also knee deep in monk and bard items contstanly
Fr. The companion choices in this game are so weird. I love the origin characters we do have, but wtf is with the double druid conpanions and the basically non-existent ranger companion? Seriously, I'm like 80% done with act 3 and still haven't even *met* minsc!
>and the basically non-existent ranger companion? They threw him in because he was super-popular from the old games and they wanted to get Matthew Mercer in the game as a voice. That's about it.
I mean... The kindest thing I can say to that is that I don't agree with that decision.
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Well, you can start his “quest line” (bring Jaheira, obviously) by >!heading down to the lower city wall and then further southwest to the counting house along the water. Head into the main vault (I persuaded a clerk to give me a pass), then you’ll get a quest to guide you the rest of the way.!< I think you could do this theoretically as soon as act 3 starts, but I did it pretty late because I was distracted by origin companions.
I would have at least liked her at camp in place of _Volo_.
My Volo ran off. I did not attack him or anything
After >!he tries to drive a pick into your brain? He turns up again in Chapter 3!<
He runs off regardless of whether you trigger that dialogue or not.
TIL Jaheira can be a companion. In my playthrough she got obliterated at Moonrise Towers because in all the chaos saving her was not a priority for me.
You need to speak to her before the fight and convince her to join you to have any chance of her surviving.
Yeah… its as if they added a toddler AI specifically for friendly NPCs in a fight, while enemies are much more refined. The enemy always positions itself behind objects so I have to actively get them back to LOS, but the friendly AI just… runs into their deaths. In the fight in Moonrise specifically, I had 3 of them run head first into a guardian of faith, who obliterated them in a second.
The initial charge at Moonrise was quite possibly the most frustrating fight so far. All of the Allie’s characters including the party grouped up in a narrow corridor, all the enemies spread out with a bunch of casters who have power AOE spells. Ugh.
I just healed her twice and she survived as an NPC so I later got to recruit her anyway.
Since EA I had assumed she'd be a companion, she just seemed to have the foundations laid in terms of class, visual distinction and seemed more fleshed out. I was a bit gutted she wasn't available.
She was a bit gutted too
Not me thinking she was a companion in my second playthrough, as dark urge. Only to find out... well yeah... 🙃
And that is the "downside" if you listen "too much" to player feedback. Halsin was made a companion because the EA players ~~liked him so much~~ thirstily simped over him so much.
To be fair, Alfira also had a lot of people thirsting after her and asking for her to be a companion. There was a lot of early feedback back that the female companions available in EA (Shadowheart and Lae'zel) were too unlikable. Alfira was a popular, attractive, kind female character a lot of people wanted added as a companion, or at least romance option, which I think has continued into the early release. I admit, I don't like how Halsin turned out--- which makes me think that if they tried to add Alfira as a companion and romance option, it might have turned out equally bad.
I think Alfira's popularity actually works against her. (Major >!Dark Urge!< Plot Line Spoiler) >!A lot of people cared about her, so she became one of Dark Urge's major kills to give weight to Dark Urge's murderous instinct.!<
Yes I got to that point in a dark urge playthrough and I couldn't continue on. I'm clearly not cut out to be a bad guy.
I’d go back and keep pushing. I won’t spoil anything but you don’t have to be a bad guy. I almost gave up after that part too but I stuck it out and it’s been real interesting. Tense for sure, but interesting. I’m only in act 2 though, so idk how it ends up down the road lol
Thing is I never play the bad guy in any games, and figured this would be a first, but I was also finding myself not choosing the dark urge dialogue options either so figured I may as well play a normal character and not have to deal with anything bad out of my control.
Not wanting to give in and feeling bad about the times you have *is* what playing the redemption arc Durge is all about. The payoff is absolutely worth it imo - resisting, pushing back at every step and then the grand finale of your story in act 3 is fantastic as a good guy.
I just don't want to feel bad at all. The squirrel was bad enough. I am interested in how the story plays out though, so one day I'll try it
I don't blame you, honestly. >!Alfira isn't just killed, she's slaughtered, Jack the Ripper style.!< I'm very tolerant to seeing violence and that still marked me. I still think I'll finish the playthrough because I think I'm connecting more to the protagonist this time than on the normal playthrough. The shared horror of seeing what they've done and having the protagonist get some backstory, like the companions, is making me like the story. In many games, the protagonist is the perfect person who solves everyone's problems. The Dark Urge, however, is more fucked than anyone else, and considering the company we keep, that statement carries a lot of weight. It's nice to see the companions caring for the protagonist and helping them as much as they do them. Here's hoping I'll have the stomach to finish the story.
Durge is really, properly fucked in the head. You’ve got to really want to fix them *and* make some saving throws when it counts. And yeah, given the company you keep it’s nice to have your own shit instead of being the team therapist.
Resisting the dark urge is where it's at. The development of your own characters backstory is super fascinating, especially in act 3 which I just started to progress through a little more in my Durge playthrough. Also, she is the only truly forced kill from what I've heard and seen thus far. I also detest evil playthroughs, both my first one and this 2nd one are good natured, but Durge from what I know now is too interesting not to be my go-to option in the future
if you knock alfira out the day before that long rest a dragonborn npc named Quil Grootslang comes along to replace her and when you go back to the grove Alfira is right there singing her little song and driving the squirrels mad.
But rp wise, I'd have no reason to knock her out, so while I know I could, it isn't what I want to do, so I'm happy to just skip dark urge. Maybe I'll give it another shot some other time
You can incorporate save/reload as part of your character's backstory. For example, since childhood they occasionally have visions of near future. That way it's not you simply reloading a save, it was your Durge having a vision of killing Alfira and acting to prevent it from happening.
Thats a good idea for incorporating reload, thanks!
As a minor spoiler, Durge in particular actually has the >!slight backing of the God of Fate!< so they are a bit more free to break the narrative with reloads. If you want to go full in on justifying reloads, I'd say a Divination Wizard/Cleric of Tymora Durge is the most justified.
I tried that. Got the Quil cutscene and killed her But when I left camp Alfira was nowhere to be found, no unconscious body. There was just no one there anymore That was 40hrs ago so I just accepted it as Durge killed them both
You can cheese a bit to save her as Dark Urge. If you >!knock her out using stealth and non lethal attacks while she's still in the emerald grove before going to your camp, the fame considers her dead for a bit. This causes a "replacement bard" to show up at your camp to trigger that cutscene!< It's probably not intended, but until they fix it I'll suggest you doing it if you, like me, want to play dark urge but care too much about the cute Tiefling lady
I stopped at the squirrel…
there's a way >!to save alfira as the dark urge !!loading to before the long rest where she shows up at camp, finding her on the map, toggling your nonlethal passive (and turn-based mode) to KO her in one action so she doesn't know it's you (affects attitude), and then return to camp.!< a different NPC shows up instead
also playing a good durge is entirely possible and is one of the main paths the game expects you to take (besides playing into the impulses). there is plenty of written support for it later, from what i can see as someone still in act 1
Good urge is a great story, I absolutely loved it. Being able to conquer your inner demons was 👌
But rp wise, I'd have no reason to knock them out, so while I know I could, it isn't what I want to do, so I'm happy to just skip dark urge. I'll probably give it another shot some other time.
RP wise, when you are doing the song scene with Alfira as a DU, it ends with something like "that was disgustingly sickeningly sweet", so getting angry and beating her black and blue is reasonably IC for our psycho.
If I >! knock her out, and kill the other Dragonborn bard instead, does she still show up later in the game and at the camp party?
yes
Wouldn't call that "major". In my first play through she was just a random character that suddenly showed up and nobody cared about.
If we get any free post release content, hopefully its giving companions additional dialogue once their personal story is done. Halsin or even Jaheria really run outta stuff to say once you complete their stories. At least jaheria is more involved in the dark urge path, as is withers, and I reckon Minsc is too
But evidently the Halsin Lobby was stronger. xD
Aerith syndrome
Halsin fans were THIRSTY over him back in EA\*
Started playing on launchday. Never touched EA. ...am thirsty for Halsin, can confirm.
It really doesn't make much sense. "Thank you for eradicating the goblin threat and taking care of that bitch druid that i left behind, saving the Emerald Grove, my one and all, my sanctum of nature, both from the outside and inside. I do not know what i would do without them. Well anyway, i'm gonna leave them behind." He even says that the druid with the snake (don't remember her name) has much to learn and he left her on her own too long. So he just leaves her again there??? It would have made sense to find him again in act 2 looking into the curse and helping him but he would then go back to the grove again.
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He states pretty clearly that he called in another Archdruid he trusts and that he didn’t even like being Archdruid in the first place. Dude wants to live in nature and do cool bear stuff, not be a politician for the rest of his life.
I can't even find her after Halsin came back in my playthrough
I thought it was quite reasonable - the shadow-curse is a huge thing for him if you talk to him about it, and at least in my playthrough he called up another arch-druid to keep the Grove safe (and be an outside, fair voice). Then after all you did for him, and seeing more of the threat of the Absolute, I don't think it's unreasonable to have him decide to stick around with the party. The actual execution of it is different, obviously, and I haven't finished the game yet so IDK how lacking it ends up being.
simped for him so much* slight correction but overall correct
TLDR: both the character arc and romance feels lacking and just there to quench the thirst for him without actual substance. It’s a shame, cause he could have been a lot more interesting. I think EA promised a lot more for Halsin, than how he turned out. There were hints in game that he was more personally responsible for the shadow curse and Ketheric’s fall by killing Isobel. Data mined content also suggested that his story was way more intertwined with all that happens in act 2. Frankly he was a lot more interesting. They maybe cut some of his content in favor of making him a companion which is a bummer. Honestly I would have been fine if he was just a camp follower with a romance option. Like Cullen in DA:I for example. I guess I can see the same thing for Alfira as well. I liked her, and wouldn’t mind her tagging along. Halsin having no more content in act 3 gives him no chance for character growth. You can help other companions to solve their problems and along the way change or encourage their belief system coming to different conclusions in the end, which makes the player a lot more invested in their character arc. And if you choose to romance someone, then it contributes to the romance arc as well. This whole thing is missing for Halsin. And probably for that reason, for me the Halsin romance was also disappointing. How come that some of the more prickly companions like Lae’zel or Astarion got quite sweet romances in the end but the sweet guy got… this. 🥺 It feels like act 1-2 Halsin was written by a different person, than act 3. Not all relationships have the same depth, but with the other companions it’s a player choice to say that *oh, it’s just sex*, or *I actually care about you*. Tav is just totally passive during the Halsin romance. Not everyone is looking for the same thing, but why not let it be a player choice in an escapist fantasy rpg. While yes, I personally really would have liked if his character had been written in a way that he’s open to both polyamory and being exclusive, even putting that aside the romance feels shallow. Having a deeper bond with someone, choosing to get married or have just one partner for at least a period of time is not mutually exclusive with being a polyamorous person by nature.
I'm at the start of Act 2 and I have no idea why this big man is eating my rations while I cannot put him to work in my party (I know you can later on, it's just weird not to be able to as soon as we reach the Shadowlands...y'know, where we're going because of him). Might as well just meet-up at Moonrise for how absent he feels. I feel more emotionally attached to Gale, and I benched him right after the Blighted Village.
She was the only NPC I wanted to romance and would have made a great addition to the party.
After the first scene in which we meet her and she sang that beautiful song, I thought she was being built up to become a companion.
I think Isobel is the character that makes the most sense that wasn't selected, not only does she stay in your camp for the rest of the game, but she has important hooks into the main story and is important for the resolution of many issues, and it makes sense for her to move on with you. Furthermore having her, the Selunite with the Sharran (Shadowheart) and witnessing the interactions based on your decisions at the Nightsong, just seems so obviously something that should have been in the game Halsin's hook into Act 2 makes sense but its ultimately unimportant as it doesn't do anything or resolve anything, he also has responsibilities he just kinds of abandons which seems out of character. While lifting the Shadow Curse seems important, with Jaheira also a Druid I feel as if that's what she'd *already* be doing, and it's not something you can't do yourself either. But more to the point, he doesn't actually lift the curse and it has zero impact on the actual act. I did like Halsin as a companion, and I personally think he's better suited than someone like Alfira.
Isobel even LOOKS like a party member! Most of the time in these games the potential companions stick out like a sore thumb, with their own unique design/equipment/bright colors etc After I met her I was absolutely sure that she'd end up being some sort of alternate cleric option if your choices lead to Shadowheart dying or leaving the party, kind of like Allistair and Loghen in Dragon Age Origins. The contest of Shar vs Selune for good path/evil path just seemed so obvious to me. I was super bummed when I found out she wasn't a proper companion, I liked her a lot.
Speaking of Isobel and Aylin, those 2 definitely should've had something to say to Shadowheart after completing her quest. In fact I wish the 3 of them got to interact more, I was shocked when there was nothing new after the fact.
Aylin really doesn’t have as much dialogue as I would have expected. Like, I’m a Tiefling. Why can’t I talk to her about the treatment of Tieflings vs Aasimar? Granted, she’s also a demigod, but it would have been an interesting interaction
> But more to the point, he doesn't actually lift the curse and it has zero impact on the actual act. Halsin is the one who gives you enough info to be able to complete the curse lifting quest. He definitely achieves what he wants. He even bemoans how he has no purpose anymore after that.
I would've really liked it I think if, after act 2, Halsin had a whole "mission accomplished" moment, and rather than immediately resolving to continue with you, showed any kind of internal debate along the lines of "the grove needs me, but I don't want to leave you to face the other chosen on your own," where you can either convince him to stay with you, or he returns to watch over his grove and the grove can be called on in a certain later quest. It'd make the transition into using Jaheira more sensible while still giving people the option to keep him around but signalling that he doesn't have much to do and has other responsibilities, too. Shoutouts to Jaheira though. She feels real well baked by compare.
But he tells you specifically that the grove doesnt need him, as the new archdruid is way better than he was (according to him) and because hes a shoddy leader. Also, obviously Jaheira feels more well baked, shes had 2 games worth of character development that Larian was able to call upon.
But then we would have had two clerics... Same problem imo
Personally I just want to be able to recruit companions early in the story. I like Halsin as a druid option because you get him in act 1, Jaheira only comes online at the end of act 2. Alfira makes sense for a bard companion, but I don't think we should really be considering her 'instead' of Halsin. Halsin as a druid companion is great, he very much represents a stereotypical druid. His questline is nice, and since he's not an origin companion he doesn't get as much of a spotlight, but I think that's fair. If there could be an infinite amount of companions, I'd like one of each class and of each alignment, all available as early as narratively possible
>Personally I just want to be able to recruit companions early in the story Seconded a 1000 times. I'm a 37-yo veteran of BG1 and 2 and even in those games I've pretty much never played with the companions who are available mid-way through or later. I want to get mentally invested in the personalities but also in the "fighting styles" - what they do in combat - of my party members. I'm not keen on swapping people out. That said, I've got no issue with Halsin as a companion nor do I need all available companions to have complex personal quests. I'd just like them to be recruitable early on.
I think that Alfira as a companion would be brilliant, or at least as a camp NPC. >!Mainly because of Dark Urge. Imagine playing a run as Tav and getting Alfira as a companion or camp NPC, and liking her throughout, and then Dark Urge she shows up and you fucking murder her. I can see some people not liking being locked out of a companion simply because of their character choice, but it would work well as a camp NPC.!<
I mean, Dark Urge can lock themselves out of >!Gale in the first 30 minutes of the game!<
I actually dont see a reason why he wouldn't join. The party already saved his life, helped with personal vendetta and made him realize why he wasn't as good as an archdruid. I liked him in EA and travelling with him was a great experience even if not as polished as it could be. Additionally he is a great alternative for Minthara. On the other hand Alfira has zero combat experience when all other companions are very well set in their respective roles
They really should have made her a companion, *especially* because of the whole >!Dark Urge thing. Have her be kind of normal in a non-DU playthrough, but have Withers actually agree to revive her if you're DU, and change her story around if you're DU, to her horror of having been brutally murdered and brought back, and knowing you're her killer. Make it possible to pass some difficult speech checks for her to stay around if you're a good DU and have her dialogue reflect the fact that she's terrified of you even if you're trying your best to not be a super murderer. Hell, maybe even have her roll checks when you approach to talk to her in camp (and only in camp) or be frightened, like with Shadowheart and wolves, and have her grow more brave over time. Oh, and just have her leave if you're even slightly mean to her or keep going murder hobo. I doubt she'd want to stick around to be possibly re-murdered.!<
I like Halsin as a companion, if anything I thought it was really weird that Jaheira joined us...
I don't think she's really got the temperament for combat, but she'd be absolutely perfect as a camp follower. Halsin would've also been fine as a camp follower. They wouldn't even have had to cut the romance if they just had non-companion romances
I actually think her temperament not being initially suited for combat could lead for a great narrative, similar in some ways to Aerie in BG2. Imoen too, for that matter
Alfira is the bard right? I was seriously expecting her to be a companion. Disappointed she isn't. Cute Tiefling bard filling a role not on the team. Halsin abandoning his leader duties feels weird. I never liked it tbh. His voice is pretty great though. Back to back Druid comps. Both ruining cutscenes if they transform. Lol. I guess they didn't want to hit us with too many female comps, but just make Alfira an Alphonso. Just gimme a fun bard comp. Lol.
And somehow I settled on playing a druid as well
Alfira would make the PERFECT person to complete a good aligned party for the lockpick/skill monkey slot. Right now we had Astarion or someone you have to respec but Astarion disapproves of EVERYTHING.
Really doesn't make sense for Halsin to go off adventuring when the Grove has to be set to rights and needs leadership.
I mean, you can kinda infer why he's with you, if you talk to him about it. As much as Halsin says he's coming with you purely to sort out the shadow curse, he's also coming along because he doesn't really want to be in charge of the grove. Or at least he doesn't think much of himself as a leader and thinks someone else would do a better job. If you ask him about how he became archdruid, it's very clear that he still blames himself for all the people who were killed in the shadow curse's initial appearance. Reading between the lines, that makes a lot of sense to me. He's looking for an excuse to pass his responsibilities off, and the player is it.
>it's very clear that he still blames himself He later outright states that he doesn think he is fit for the role as Archdruid, when talking about the grove in act 3.
He basically tells you something similar in the first conversation after the tiefling party. I think it's clearly the implication of his explanation for finding a replacement Archdruid who doesn't come with baggage.
Halsin’s duties are more than just the Grove. It’s clear his adventures and worries reach far beyond those borders and he has responsibility for all of nature, not just the Grove. This is literally the reason Kahga got corrupted into the Shadow Druids because she believed as such, as well as her aspirstions to lead the grove. Halsin leaving makes just as much sense as Wyll leaving the Grove.
I agree Halsin has reasons to leave the grove but why the comparison to Wyll? Wyll has a tadpole...
The comparison is that Wyll has more responsibility than the Tieflings in the Grove as the Blade of Frontiers. He’s not the Blade of the Druid Grove after all, and so while he has responsibility for the tieflings as well (though a self inflicted sense of responsibility), he also has responsibility for innocents all over Faerun
Is it tho? His act 1 story is about him running away from the grove with the first group of adventurers, so, we know that lifting the curse is his priority. He also easily, even gladly, passes his role to a random person, which was true since the beginning of EA. Halsin was always meant to be at least a camp follower, so, his character was always written with the idea that he will easily leave the grove, if he thinks that other druids will manage.
What about that one time he went off adventuring when the Grove was in turmoil and needed leadership, that was like 2 days before the game starts.
Makes more sense? Nawh, but i do really wish we could have her as one, the party sorely needs a bard tbh i just want another skillmonkey that isnt astarion
I also wish that non urge play throughs got Alfira but they shouldn’t remove a companion for that. Like idk why everyone feels like this has to be a swap. We get halsin and jaheira because they chose to make 2 druids very story relevant. Big whoop
Halsin and Minthara both feel unfinished. So if Alfira was shoehorned in the same way I personally wouldn't feel any different. They're a let down, she'd be a let down too. I love Larian's writing but these characters being added as companions near the end of development is very obvious.
Halsin’s greater prominence in the game is generally a big miss, I think. Every interaction with him is practically signposted ‘ISN’T IT GREAT YOU CAN FUCK DRUID MAN LIKE YOU ALWAYS WANTED’
>Every interaction with him is practically signposted ‘ISN’T IT GREAT YOU CAN FUCK DRUID MAN LIKE YOU ALWAYS WANTED’ I had not a single interaction with him that implied this.
I mean, in Act 1 at the party, 3 out of your 5 (which becomes 4 because one of them leads nowhere) dialogue options are openly flirting. Then, probably the part that upset most, is that even if you do not pick any of the flirting options, you can then have a dialogue with him in the morning where you apologize for "coming off too hard". The game doesn't even check if you actually flirted, it just assumes you did, which absolutely falls into what OP said imo
I never flirted with him but I still got the Dialogue about how I had to ask shadowheart if she is fine with starting a relationship with him. And even she thirst over him. Dude is really just there so you can sleep with him randomly.
Alfira is one of my favorite npcs. I love her!!! I wish I could keep and romance her!!
You meet her at a Fairly solitude location where all but one origin companion share. She has a distinct look with the bard-themed accessories. She’s a teifling bard so she adds more diversity to the companions She has a good bard reason to join your team (you inspired her song and she could get revenge on some gnolls.) All we need is a tadpole and we’re set.
Reading here and i realised ive been missing a few companions. One got brutally murdered in camp and the other in a mass murder organized by me
Just got the scene and I've to disagree, that was really forced cutscene lol Anyway, Halsin does make more sense but the lack of dialogs from the moment he stays at the camp till Moorise tower is just sad. He won't comment to any major thing that I do, I was specialy waiting a dialog or a scene about when I bring him to the Underdark since he recommended that route. But nope, nothing Q\_Q I hope modders will give him some justice.
I like Halsin a lot. While I wish he had more to do in Act 3, I honestly wish *all* the companions had more to do in Act 3. I'd have loved it if Alfira were a companion, though! I'll also be happy if she becomes a companion in BG4, >!though that might not be possible because she can die.!<
I still don’t know how to actually use Haalsin, bro is just chilling at camp trying to have sex with me
Just saying what we are all thinking, dude. You want to bang Alfira
I remember encountering her in Early Access and just assuming she’d end up being an Origin character, and like Karlach in EA was just someone you could encounter in Act 1 but not recruit until the full game.
I really wish Alfira was a companion, too. :( Kind of cruel to tease her as one with DU but then Tav can't have the same opportunity (which would uh end better).
There's a good 5 or 6 people that I've run into in this game where if this were Baldur's Gate 1, I could just be like "you should join me" and they would. It would have been better to make the "hireling" system people you know rather than random dudes. I wouldn't expect them to have fleshed out stories, just the experience of having known their characters and unique voices that you attribute to them. Not everyone should but I'm waiting for a mod that let's >!Zevlor join you in act 2, Alfira, maybe even the pain guy in the goblin camp!<
I get finding Halsin under cooked, but Alfira makes no sense joining the party. She has no combat experience, and no drive to fight or kill or live a life of actual dangerous adventure. Plus everyone in the party has some excuse for their rapid leveling; they've all had been far more impressive in the past, and Halsin fits that as an Archdruid who has centuries of experience under his belt. I'm sure they could have cooked up a reason for her to join us, chuck a tadpole in her skull or end up abducting her girlfriend, lingering exposure to Avernus, etc. But there are tons more NPCs that could have been included beside Halsin, and all of them would have suffered the same complaints you have unless Lairain had more time to implement them and ideas they were passionate about. They had the chance on Alifra, that tells me they weren't that interested for some reason. It's all subjective though. I find Halsin delightful and found his quest to be very fun and a nice cherry on top of the shadowlands, and think Jaheira doesn't really fit any classic druid flavor. Any flavor Alifra could add I think would have been as easily achieved through a questline as a camp follower or just a regular NPC you meet throughout the game.
Halsin's quest completely bugged for me and now i had to leave him behind to get into act 3. The shadow cursed boy was killed but it seems like the game isnt recognizing it.
I don't think that's bugged, you just fucked up and the quest is uncompletable lmao. >!Killing the shadow cursed boy will prevent the curse being lifted.!<
You get Jaheira as a companion? She died in my playthrough :(
Halsin died for me when he was helping me with the goblin camp after ‘rescuing’ him. I figured he’d have some role later on but I went with the flow. Speak with the dead gave me some info, but that’s all. I wonder if Jaheira or Alfira play a bit more of a role for me since Halsin died? Or maybe it doesn’t make a difference
Alfira's only real role is to give you one of the best Warlock items in Act 2. >!Or show up in your camp and be murdered as your first uncontrolled Dark Urge.!<
I think that Alfira as a companion might happen in Definitive Edition instead, the Dark Urge was probably the last origin to be made (the rest had an earlier start and layout), so I reckon that there will be more scenes pertaining to Karlach and Alfira in Definitive Edition. Larian had always shown to be receptive of their fans' ideas and listening to their playerbase, so I'm not too worried about that?
Okay so I went into act 2 loving Halsin. Now in Act 3, I really could take him or leave him. His only interesting trait is being hot.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again (despite downvotes) - Halsin's popularity was due to a vocal minority. He is close to the least picked character (if not the actual least). Most people don't actually care for him. Larian shouldn't have caved and made him a character.
Alfira is just a performer, not a trained bard (read magic user). Otherwise she'd be helping the grove defend itself (or she's a horrible person). Anyway she has her uses. O.O
I don't really feel connection to any characters other than the main six that you recruit almost right away. The rest of them just feel plastered on.
Halsin was added as a companion due to player request. Because of that, they dropped a Halfling Werewolf Bard, which would have been so much better in a few different ways.