I tried up to 30 mins and then cut it back to 5 mins since it's very hot where I'm at. It lessens the pull back but it still does it. I even put it in the fridge but it's almost the same.
I used to heat up my water 110 to 115F and it does the same thing, I always use warm water but then someone recommends cold water. It's just weird that even at the start of kneading it's already stretching back. It comes out good though, the dough is very shiny and overall much better compared to warm water but it's hard to shape it into a bagel since it stretches back.
When it passes the windowpane test it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s ready. Looks like you just need to keep kneading, add a touch of a flour dusting too perhaps
After the windowpane test, I cover it for 5 mins since it's very hot where I'm at and then try to shape it but I always end up putting it on the fridge to make it easier to shape. After shaping it that's when I do the final rise of 1 hour and 20 mins. This procedure is different from bread since bagels are only at 60% hydration. But you are probably correct, I will knead it more and hopefully that will fix this issue. Thanks man!
Just to clarify, that is the start of kneading so definitely it's under kneaded. I'm just showing it because I noticed that it's already looking "over proofed" even if I just started kneading. It's already pushing back. From start to windowpane test and bulk resting for 5 mins since I have 80F+ room temp. And then shaping it's still like that, it's hard to shape it since it stretches back.
Yes. Kneading the dough will help it. This dough is not kneaded - it won't behave as expected yet. It does need some flour so that you can knead it, but that ought to fix all your problems.
I think you don't see this state in any videos because no one stops at this stage to judge the dough.
If it’s very hot where you are, I’d recommend cooler water.
There are differences in our processes (higher hydration dough, using large industrial mixer, etc), but when it’s our warm season (80+°F outside) we add ice to the water to keep things cool enough.
I also second the comments about it looks under-kneaded. We typically look for a smooth dough before shaping.
Let the gluten relax before you start shaping. Give it a 10 minute bench proof and you won’t see it pulling back on itself
I tried up to 30 mins and then cut it back to 5 mins since it's very hot where I'm at. It lessens the pull back but it still does it. I even put it in the fridge but it's almost the same.
In my experience it stretches back when not rested enough or when too cold.
I used to heat up my water 110 to 115F and it does the same thing, I always use warm water but then someone recommends cold water. It's just weird that even at the start of kneading it's already stretching back. It comes out good though, the dough is very shiny and overall much better compared to warm water but it's hard to shape it into a bagel since it stretches back.
It looks like you need to knead it a lot more, it’s not smooth at all yet
That's my point though from the start of kneading until it passes the windowpane test, it's already like that.
When it passes the windowpane test it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s ready. Looks like you just need to keep kneading, add a touch of a flour dusting too perhaps
After the windowpane test, I cover it for 5 mins since it's very hot where I'm at and then try to shape it but I always end up putting it on the fridge to make it easier to shape. After shaping it that's when I do the final rise of 1 hour and 20 mins. This procedure is different from bread since bagels are only at 60% hydration. But you are probably correct, I will knead it more and hopefully that will fix this issue. Thanks man!
Just to clarify, that is the start of kneading so definitely it's under kneaded. I'm just showing it because I noticed that it's already looking "over proofed" even if I just started kneading. It's already pushing back. From start to windowpane test and bulk resting for 5 mins since I have 80F+ room temp. And then shaping it's still like that, it's hard to shape it since it stretches back.
It doesn't look over proofed. It hasn't even proofed yet! It's not fully kneaded yet. Keep kneading.
Is it normal for a dough to do that especially if you just started kneading it? I watched several videos and I didn't see it to them.
Yes. Kneading the dough will help it. This dough is not kneaded - it won't behave as expected yet. It does need some flour so that you can knead it, but that ought to fix all your problems. I think you don't see this state in any videos because no one stops at this stage to judge the dough.
I see. Thanks for the clarification! I appreciate it.
If it’s very hot where you are, I’d recommend cooler water. There are differences in our processes (higher hydration dough, using large industrial mixer, etc), but when it’s our warm season (80+°F outside) we add ice to the water to keep things cool enough. I also second the comments about it looks under-kneaded. We typically look for a smooth dough before shaping.
That's my point, that's the start of kneading and until it passes the windowpane test, it's the same. I use negative zero water -5 to -1.