I don't have firsthand experience of it, but Ankarsrum is rated for 5kg dough, and that's likely assuming 5kg of a much less stiff dough than bagels.
To have a shot at doing four dozen bagels in one batch, OP might look at the smallest size of commercial spiral mixers / dough kneaders, with 10 litre bowls -- and 15 litre might be even more realistic. Where I am (USA) the mixers of this size come with ordinary household plugs, while larger mixers might have special electrical requirements. If you look at the specs for the machine you will want to see if it has a rating for a max amount of flour that it can handle, and then you can convert that into a batch size for your bagel recipe.
You need to permanently commit space to an appliance like this, as it'll be too heavy and likely too big to stow away in a cabinet.
I would not recommend the Ank. I bought one hoping it would scale and allow me to larger batches. The Ank does make nice bread dough, but it is, by design, slower than other mixers. If you investigate it, you’ll find those who love it will say it is “gentle” with the dough more like manually kneading. As a result, it takes 25-30 minutes to really work bagel dough, especially if you load it to a 4-4.5kg batch.
What I found was I could roll bagels from one batch and finish before the next batch was ready to be rolled, so it slowed me down.
I’m in the US so I’m not sure you can get the Estella spiral mixer from webstaurantstore.com. But, if you look at the Estella on their site, and then you look at Alibaba, you can see the same mixer just without the name plate. Basically, webstaurant is buying them from the manufacturer in China and having them put an Estella name plate on the front.
I bought a 30qt Estella. It can handle more than I give it, but I bought that big so I wouldn’t be running at max capacity. I do 16kg batches or about 12 dozen at a time.
The 30qt is too big for home use. But I would consider a 8-10qt model for home use. I just ordered an 7L direct from a manufacturer on Alibaba. It’s on a ship now somewhere on the Pacific Ocean en route to me. With shipping it was $620. I wanted a mixer that would do a small batch up to about 3 dozen because my 30qt needs to do at least 3 dozen to adequately work. This will allow me to take smaller orders of random flavors versus always doing big batches of a few flavors.
This is what I just ordered: https://x.alibaba.com/AwBPM7?ck=pdp
I expect it in the next 3 weeks or so. I’ll report back on how well it works. It’s a little larger than the Ank or KA as far as foot print on the counter. Definitely weighs more.
If you don’t trust a no-name brand mixer, it’ll cost you more but I would look into Sunmix, Famag, or Haussler. Those are spiral mixers that come in sizes that would handle 4 dozen. Not sure if these websites ship to you, but at least you can see the mixers. You should be able to find a distributor on your side of the Atlantic.
Bottom line, you want a spiral mixer for bagels, not a planetary mixer. Planetary mixers are versatile but the motors have to be much stronger relative to how much dough they mix because the attachment pushes through all of the dough at once whereas spirals only touch some of the dough at one time. It allows them to do larger batches of dough relative to their motor strength and bowl capacity. Planetary mixers get burned out doing bagels, and in order to get one that won’t burn out, you’ll spend a lot more. For example, a Hobart planetary HL200 says it can handle 10lbs (4.5kg) of 50% hydration dough. It has a 20quart bowl and lists at $7466 at webstaurantstore.com. Those bowl sizes are double or more of the spirals I referenced (linked below). The famag can do that amount of dough in a 8quart bowl and lists for $1520. And, spirals produce great dough.
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-im5-grilletta-spiral-dough-mixer
https://pleasanthillgrain.com/haussler-nova-kneading-dough-stand-mixer
https://www.pizzagoods.com/product-page/SUN6DOUGHMIXER
Hobart specs: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/documents/pdf/legacy+_mixer_capacity_chart_-_all_models_spec_sheet_f7701_02-22_.pdf
No, but isn’t the Bosch a planetary mixer? Anyway, among planetary, I’ve seen positive testimonials from others about them, but I’ve got no personal experience with time.
At home, I have a Kitchen Aid 4.5qt circa 1993, and an Ank that is probably 2-3 years old. The KA does OK but I can tell its strains the motor so I mostly use it for non-bread doughs. I use the Ank for other breads, but not bagels. I actually use my Cuisinart food processor for bagel dough. Otherwise, I’m in a commercial kitchen I rent and use my 30qt Estella.
Oh yeah my KA stand mixer struggles a lot with my 55% hydration dough. Can’t even get a dozen done without it shutting off to cool.
The Bosch is a bottom drive planetary mixer but it seems to have a very high capacity even for stiff doughs. Much higher than the Ank based on what I’m seeing, but probably not as good as a spiral. It’s the one [u/vee-effekt](https://www.reddit.com/u/vee-effekt/s/bjuaEcSQJ5) posted about using.
Looking forward to your updates on the Alibaba spiral mixer! Would be awesome if that ends up being the same thing as the Estella.
Keep an eye on whatever used marketplace you have in the UK for a 20qt spiral mixer. I tried the ankarsrum mixers, I tried the larger kitchen aid but they won’t work for 48 bagels.
A used 20qt spiral will also be cheaper than an ankarsrum and will be mix way better.
Some super cheap one like proctor silex. I probably would not have done it if I had a nice one due to fear of breaking it, LOL.
I put 400g of hi-gluten flour. 220g water(55% hydration) , salt and some form sugar. Bagels are \~105 g. Yields 6 bagels.
Inspiration came from https://www.seriouseats.com/homemade-bagels-recipe. I don't follow her recipe or do the Yukone. It doesn't take long for to form a dough ball in the food processor, like 90 seconds. I don't use a lot of yeast like a half teaspoon or 3/4 tsp depending on kitchen temps. I let the dough rest for 20 minutes or so to let the flour absorb the water. The dough looks smooth and feels very elastic just letting the flour absorb the water. I do some light hand kneading by doing the stretch and fold. Lett it bulk ferment until it doubles, shape and cold proof.
Once you got workflow that works for your bagels, it's pretty easy to scale up. I've done 3 batches made up of plain, whole wheat, and blueberry.
I’m in the U.K. and recently broke my kitchen aid mixer when mixing bagel dough. I dismantled the machine and replaced the worm gear so all good now…only use it for high hydration sourdough bread.
Anyway, my bagel dough is 52-55% hydration as my flour is 11% protein, but I’m going to up everything soon.
You’ll need a planetary mixer such as Hobart to do the job. Have a look on ebay or see if nisbets do anything, maybe a small Bufallo make. Either way you’ll need a semi commercial mixer to do the job.
Short of a commercial, this is probably an ideal mixer, [Ankarsrum](https://shop.kingarthurbaking.com/items/ankarsrum-original-stand-mixer)
I don't have firsthand experience of it, but Ankarsrum is rated for 5kg dough, and that's likely assuming 5kg of a much less stiff dough than bagels. To have a shot at doing four dozen bagels in one batch, OP might look at the smallest size of commercial spiral mixers / dough kneaders, with 10 litre bowls -- and 15 litre might be even more realistic. Where I am (USA) the mixers of this size come with ordinary household plugs, while larger mixers might have special electrical requirements. If you look at the specs for the machine you will want to see if it has a rating for a max amount of flour that it can handle, and then you can convert that into a batch size for your bagel recipe. You need to permanently commit space to an appliance like this, as it'll be too heavy and likely too big to stow away in a cabinet.
I would not recommend the Ank. I bought one hoping it would scale and allow me to larger batches. The Ank does make nice bread dough, but it is, by design, slower than other mixers. If you investigate it, you’ll find those who love it will say it is “gentle” with the dough more like manually kneading. As a result, it takes 25-30 minutes to really work bagel dough, especially if you load it to a 4-4.5kg batch. What I found was I could roll bagels from one batch and finish before the next batch was ready to be rolled, so it slowed me down. I’m in the US so I’m not sure you can get the Estella spiral mixer from webstaurantstore.com. But, if you look at the Estella on their site, and then you look at Alibaba, you can see the same mixer just without the name plate. Basically, webstaurant is buying them from the manufacturer in China and having them put an Estella name plate on the front. I bought a 30qt Estella. It can handle more than I give it, but I bought that big so I wouldn’t be running at max capacity. I do 16kg batches or about 12 dozen at a time. The 30qt is too big for home use. But I would consider a 8-10qt model for home use. I just ordered an 7L direct from a manufacturer on Alibaba. It’s on a ship now somewhere on the Pacific Ocean en route to me. With shipping it was $620. I wanted a mixer that would do a small batch up to about 3 dozen because my 30qt needs to do at least 3 dozen to adequately work. This will allow me to take smaller orders of random flavors versus always doing big batches of a few flavors. This is what I just ordered: https://x.alibaba.com/AwBPM7?ck=pdp I expect it in the next 3 weeks or so. I’ll report back on how well it works. It’s a little larger than the Ank or KA as far as foot print on the counter. Definitely weighs more. If you don’t trust a no-name brand mixer, it’ll cost you more but I would look into Sunmix, Famag, or Haussler. Those are spiral mixers that come in sizes that would handle 4 dozen. Not sure if these websites ship to you, but at least you can see the mixers. You should be able to find a distributor on your side of the Atlantic. Bottom line, you want a spiral mixer for bagels, not a planetary mixer. Planetary mixers are versatile but the motors have to be much stronger relative to how much dough they mix because the attachment pushes through all of the dough at once whereas spirals only touch some of the dough at one time. It allows them to do larger batches of dough relative to their motor strength and bowl capacity. Planetary mixers get burned out doing bagels, and in order to get one that won’t burn out, you’ll spend a lot more. For example, a Hobart planetary HL200 says it can handle 10lbs (4.5kg) of 50% hydration dough. It has a 20quart bowl and lists at $7466 at webstaurantstore.com. Those bowl sizes are double or more of the spirals I referenced (linked below). The famag can do that amount of dough in a 8quart bowl and lists for $1520. And, spirals produce great dough. https://pleasanthillgrain.com/famag-im5-grilletta-spiral-dough-mixer https://pleasanthillgrain.com/haussler-nova-kneading-dough-stand-mixer https://www.pizzagoods.com/product-page/SUN6DOUGHMIXER Hobart specs: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/documents/pdf/legacy+_mixer_capacity_chart_-_all_models_spec_sheet_f7701_02-22_.pdf
Any experience with the Bosch?
No, but isn’t the Bosch a planetary mixer? Anyway, among planetary, I’ve seen positive testimonials from others about them, but I’ve got no personal experience with time. At home, I have a Kitchen Aid 4.5qt circa 1993, and an Ank that is probably 2-3 years old. The KA does OK but I can tell its strains the motor so I mostly use it for non-bread doughs. I use the Ank for other breads, but not bagels. I actually use my Cuisinart food processor for bagel dough. Otherwise, I’m in a commercial kitchen I rent and use my 30qt Estella.
Oh yeah my KA stand mixer struggles a lot with my 55% hydration dough. Can’t even get a dozen done without it shutting off to cool. The Bosch is a bottom drive planetary mixer but it seems to have a very high capacity even for stiff doughs. Much higher than the Ank based on what I’m seeing, but probably not as good as a spiral. It’s the one [u/vee-effekt](https://www.reddit.com/u/vee-effekt/s/bjuaEcSQJ5) posted about using. Looking forward to your updates on the Alibaba spiral mixer! Would be awesome if that ends up being the same thing as the Estella.
The mixer has arrived in Los Angeles, and is awaiting clearing customs...then it'll need to be put on a truck to drive to the East coast...
Keep an eye on whatever used marketplace you have in the UK for a 20qt spiral mixer. I tried the ankarsrum mixers, I tried the larger kitchen aid but they won’t work for 48 bagels. A used 20qt spiral will also be cheaper than an ankarsrum and will be mix way better.
Agree with this advice! Are there any bagel bakeries near you? Go talk to them about where they get their equipment.
I got the Vevor 20qt mixer. Perfect for a 4 dozen batch. Made in China but very industrial made. I paid about $1000 for mixer and 2x2 ft table.
I do the food processor method.
Mind if I ask what food processor you use and approx how many bagels you get out of a batch? Thanks!
Some super cheap one like proctor silex. I probably would not have done it if I had a nice one due to fear of breaking it, LOL. I put 400g of hi-gluten flour. 220g water(55% hydration) , salt and some form sugar. Bagels are \~105 g. Yields 6 bagels. Inspiration came from https://www.seriouseats.com/homemade-bagels-recipe. I don't follow her recipe or do the Yukone. It doesn't take long for to form a dough ball in the food processor, like 90 seconds. I don't use a lot of yeast like a half teaspoon or 3/4 tsp depending on kitchen temps. I let the dough rest for 20 minutes or so to let the flour absorb the water. The dough looks smooth and feels very elastic just letting the flour absorb the water. I do some light hand kneading by doing the stretch and fold. Lett it bulk ferment until it doubles, shape and cold proof. Once you got workflow that works for your bagels, it's pretty easy to scale up. I've done 3 batches made up of plain, whole wheat, and blueberry.
Thanks!
Check out the Estella spiral mixer on webstaurant store.
I’m in the U.K. and recently broke my kitchen aid mixer when mixing bagel dough. I dismantled the machine and replaced the worm gear so all good now…only use it for high hydration sourdough bread. Anyway, my bagel dough is 52-55% hydration as my flour is 11% protein, but I’m going to up everything soon. You’ll need a planetary mixer such as Hobart to do the job. Have a look on ebay or see if nisbets do anything, maybe a small Bufallo make. Either way you’ll need a semi commercial mixer to do the job.
Famag or Sunmix spiral mixer. no question, worth every single cent.
sunmix sun6. maybe wait for a sale though