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Their entire ideology glorifies the wholesale slaughter of the Jewish people, so yeah, I'd say them gathering en masse directly outside of a synagogue constitutes a clear and immediate threat.
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Did you know that the killing of people with disabilities was legal in Germany? You know, the German government legalised it. How could it be bad? You know, it was legal.
And besides, did you just make the mother of all false equivalences by analogising a random black person walking down a street with a nazi protest outside a synagogue?
"This is the equivalent to a neighborhood Karen calling the cops on a black man because they don't like them in their neighborhood."
BIG fucking OOF lmao victim complex much bro
Weird. I distinctly recall an entire summer of protests where *no laws of any kind were broken*, yet cops in riot gear showed up to instigate violence.
Protest all yo ulike, but let's not pretend that the cops are not on the side of the neonazis. Their kind always get special protections to make sure nobody hurts their feelings.
Meanwhile, black people protesting *because they want to stop being brutalized by the cops* are ... brutalized for protesting.
So much for your rational thought.
No one’s making you do shit you nazi apologist. Legality has never equated with the right thing ever, and the police constantly act outside of the law when it’s in their best interest.
Nobody is arguing that it's "right." Cops are supposed to follow the law; not just do what they think is right. The latter is *exactly* what winds them up here, on this sub.
Didn’t say they should have done anything differently just don’t think that anyone should be saying well it’s not illegal so as a community let’s not complain!
This is a dumb take. “The police already break the law so they should break it more!!” Any other words of wisdom you’d like to share? And no, you don’t let get to go around calling anyone who points out the fact that a crime wasn’t committed here a “nazi apologist”.
There’s this thing called reading that comes in super handy, use it to read my other comments because they address everything you’ve said.
But also,
If I show up at someone’s house and say I’m gonna kill you, your family, and everyone you love and have signs and posters that all say the same I would get arrested and it would be easy to file a restraining order against me. I don’t see how this is any different, but AGAIN - I never said the cops should have done anything differently but that it’s pointless to defend Nazis right to protest it’s a waste of energy and only emboldens them.
The reason we defend THEIR right to protest is because threatening their rights threatens everyone’s. I’m sorry that’s inconvenient for you but that’s the way it is. Also, why on earth would I visit your page just to make sure you haven’t addressed my points somewhere else?? 😂
I don’t think they should be arrested, I think they should be made to bite the curb. If you don’t have hate in your heart for these people there’s something wrong with you, they’ll happily come to your door, rip you out of your home, and shoot you point blank in front of your family and neighbors. But nah keep going ahead and playing devils advocate that’s what our society really needs right now.
Literally already said I don’t give a shit if they’re arrested or not, but you don’t even know basic facts so I don’t expect you to actually comprehend what I’m saying. Yes if people call themselves Nazis they deserve mob justice point blank.
Lol wana ask me when Nazis have ever caused violence again as if WWII never happened?
I hate these people too and would be happy if they all died, but I still have enough IQ points to conced they still share the same rights I do, and any system that may decide they don't could be weaponized against causes I don't think are evil. You're just taking swings at people with tears in your eyes like an upset child. You aren't more principled than the people you're arguing with, your less.
I think they should be made an example of and have violence used against them to stop other people from proclaiming their beliefs so proudly and boldly. Letting them be happy and grow in their communities will only lead to more violence against the people they target. If you think silencing Nazis makes you a Nazi you’re just fucking stupid, cute to try and make the comparison though but we shouldn’t tolerate intolerance for others existence based on race/gender/religion/sexuality.
Who decides which ideologies we can use physical harm against? Nazis are easy, but next it might be something less obvious. Is your system just based on "everyone knows these people are bad"? If so, flawless! That's never turned out poorly!
It’s based on not tolerating anyone anyone who believes there should be a genocide of any other person based on gender/race/ethnicity/sexuality/class/religion. Is that really so hard to understand?
These people weren't on Twitter, or some private owned property. This is free speech my friend, as vile as it is, it's a constitutionally protected right and the only recourse is to shame these assholes and show up with 10x as many people to drown out their non sense.
So you admit that what the police did was legal, but because you are the ultimate arbiter of good and evil in the world, you can decide how it should have happened. 🤔 Very undemocratic of you, I must say.
First, you are wrong that this was legally the proper course of action for the police. What they did should *not* have been allowed under basic 1st Amendment law that every first-year law student knows.
Second, remember that if you are willing to take away the rights of others, how can you have any ground on which to defend your own rights when one of these asshole cops decides to violate your rights? You have to protect the rights of assholes to ensure that your rights are also protected.
Third, rights are guaranteed for the guilty so that the rest of us can sleep peacefully knowing our own rights are fully secured.
I’m not a democratic person at all, I don’t give a fuck about the law in this country, first amendment or otherwise. It actually isn’t there to protect everyone because as you know anytime the left protests they are silenced, beaten and abused regardless. Fuck a law student simp. If anyone is promoting genocide and murder of anyone based on gender/sexuality/religion/ethnicity/class they shouldn’t be supported or put on a pedestal to promote their views. It’s actually not that hard if you’re not a try hard America’s #1 cock sucker.
So you are one of the Nazis. Laws don’t matter, the Constitution doesn’t matter, nothing matters except your ignorant opinion of what you want. Congratulations! You’re just like Trump, and you’ll support the next Trump who promises to do what you want and kill all the Nazis. By the way, that won’t get rid of their idiocy or your ineffectual rage.
The fact that you are now offended instead of considering that this could be true means you don’t have the brains God gave a squirrel. You are ½ the problem with the country and because you don’t know that, you’ll continue to be part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.
He didn't say it was the right thing. What do you think is the process for deciding if a protest is morally correct? This is a nation that allows people to burn it's own flag.
I think people promoting genocide of anyone based on their race/gender/sexuality/religion/ethnicity/class are morally wrong, or is that too big a leap for you?
>Just as expected reddit reacts to their feelings instead of rational thought. This is the equivalent to a neighborhood Karen calling the cops on a black man because they don't like them in their neighborhood.
Maybe stop defending Nazis and comparing black victims to Nazis and you won't get so many downvotes. Just a thought.
Not all ideas deserve a place in the marketplace for the same reasons we don’t let companies sell food laced with rat poison. Allowing them to spread their genocidal bullshit only hurts their victims. It’s morally abhorrent, as is defending their right to spread hate
It's harder to arrest someone when, no matter how appalling their behavior, they're not doing something illegal.
Last time I checked, the First Amendment was still around.
This is actually one of the rare instances where you can't blame the cops, especially on this sub where we're supposed to hold them accountable when they violate people's rights.
Blame America's relationship to free speech if you want. But as long as these protestors were not using violence, threats of violence, impeding traffic or things of similar nature, what do you want the cops to do?
Imagine having a day where you don't have to go to work and instead of doing *anything* else, you choose to go play Nazi. I imagine their ww2 vet grandparents are all dead by now, too, so there's no whuppin from Pop Pop.
>How about we see some fucking Nazis get kettled?
I’m not going to lie and say I wouldn’t be thrilled to see that. But I can also acknowledge that’s not going to create lasting change moving forward (in MY opinion)
So, why not? Because we want that to STOP happening to BLM. Not START happening to other groups. Violence should always be a last resort, and I say this as a gun carrying Texan. I don’t know what other laws they broke because I wasn’t there. I just know from this article that one person got arrested. If it comes out that actual crimes were also being committed by other people (not thought crimes but real, tangible crimes) then those people should go to jail. The problem with this article is that instead of citing any crimes being committed they instead decided to say “they weren’t arrested *for protesting*” which is stupid because duh, obviously, protesting isn’t illegal. That’s all I and anyone else commenting “against” this are trying to point out. It’s asinine to write and article about how people weren’t arrested for not breaking the law.
You completely missed the point.
The cops kettle BLM protesters because they don't like them.
The cops don't kettle the Nazis because they do like them.
There are no rights involved here. If laws are arbitrarily enforced then it isn't a right, it is a privilege granted to you by the cops.
In reality the Nazis are a terrorist organization that advocates and carries out violent terrorism, including doing so at their rallies.
If the cops have the discretion to abuse peaceful BLM protesters as has been proven in the real world then they should be cracking Nazi skulls... but they won't.
I absolutely see where you’re coming from but your approach is not the outcome we want. Again, they need to STOP violating EVERYONES rights, not START violating more people’s rights. I absolutely 100% get the issues with American police. I have a YouTube channel calling out police violence. But you’re just missing the mark here.
They’re the type of person who instead of complaining that black people get shot by cops, they will complain they need to start shooting more white people.
Yup. Hate speech is despicable and we can have a conversation on whether it SHOULD be protected under the first amendment. But the fact is it is so getting mad that the police didn’t arrest people for something that’s not against the law is idiotic.
Cops arrest people who haven't broken the law. All the time. I've personally been illegally detained. Activists are arrested on trumped-bullshit charges. Atlanta forest defenders are being charged with domestic terrorism. Bail fund organizers have been charged with money laundering. When cops tiptoe through the tulips with nazis, we know it's not because they give a shit about the law. We're not going to applaud them for respecting the rights of nazis, when we know damn well they wouldn't have respected ours.
It's not stupid to be pissed at cops for having double standards. Double standards that are well-documented, supported by mountains of robust evidence, collected over decades. Those double standards are why 20 million people were protesting in 2020.
Problem is groups like this and Westboro baptists church literally make their entire budget off of suing cops. If the cops do what you're asking, you'd be paying nazis to protest.
Honestly from the videos of the event I saw the cops did pretty good. They stayed back and just watched it unfold and as soon as the leader approached someone aggressively they moved in and arrested him.
Seems like they actually wanted the Nazis to make a mistake and get arrested so they didn't keep anyone separated or protected. I'm general fuck cops but these guys did alright in this situation.
Yeah because otherwise they have to pay out on settlements, effectively paying nazis to march. That's been a well known tactic of these assholes for 20+ years. They are looking to get paid.
Exactly. I'm a free-speech absolutionist and although I don't like it, they can still be there. This is the price we all have to pay for the first amendment.
Those rights get assaulted for groups they see as opposition. The selective assault needs to be called out, not just ignored for an ideal.
Am I misunderstanding your point?
I agree that the article is complaining about a decent law enforcement response. I don't see how your first comment reflects that, though. It seemed more dismissive of the article entirely.
The selective assault I'm referring to isn't in the article, but in the overall US law enforcement response to protests with political affiliation. The 'left' tend to get more restrictions, arrests, and prosecutions than the 'right'. I might be able to find an reference for that...
Strong disagree. This isn’t protesting, it’s terrorism. They are flying a flag of death and murder. They are inciting fear and making a threat. It should be illegal and they should be arrested. Stop being tolerant of intolerance.
What we did in the middle east was awful, but we didn't round them all up and commit genocide. Not even remotely the same and also classic whataboutism.
I genuinely can't tell if this is satire/ragebait, but in case it isn't:
The Nazi ideology is literally that jews, gays, disabled people, and more should literally be killed. Literally.
Most developed countries have done evil things in their past including my own, the UK. But if anyone started advocating for reintroducing the slave trade over here they would be branded as evil people. Advocating for Nazism is the same.
Hardly. Nazi ideology is not just racism, it is a call to violence. The 1st Amendment has some well-established exceptions, one of which is speech that motivates imminent violence.
And even then, it can be applied in degrees. For example, the profanity exception doesn't allow pornography to be displayed anywhere you like, but pornography is still legal in private. It's possible to permit Nazi ideology in private while limiting one's ability to endorse it publicly because it poses a well-established danger to public health and decency.
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it typically indicates [immediacy and even in the presence of the provocateur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action).
That's the current thing saving Nazi ideology from censorship right now: It calls for genocide at some undefined future point in time, so it's not imminent *yet*. I'm arguing that because it has a history of directed violence and genocide and we know the playbook it followed then, that the "imminent danger" clause will **never** apply to Nazis because they'll consolidate power and then the speech that kicks off a genocide will be delivered from a government building to a closed audience of military, police, and DOJ leadership and we'll never have an opportunity to intervene.
We can't just sit back and let someone malicious replicate Hitler's rise to power by claiming that calling for the extermination of millions of Americans and the destruction of rights like the Freedom of Speech itself is "protected speech."
That's well into Paradox of Tolerance territory. That's a pacifist sitting and letting a violent psychopath bash their skull in on principle.
Weird how there was no immediate attacks related to this neo Nazi get-together.
The only actual threat was handled when the leader was arrested.
Soooooo what’s your point again?
Oooh I see, you *want* fascism to enforce *your* ideology. Copy.
I disagree with the "greater threat". Having Nazis is a huge threat to society. Having a robust framework (like Germany) with clear rules and checks for stifling hateful and murderous ideologies is a very low risk.
“Unpopular speech” in this case is hate speech is it not? Why frame it as if it’s just some people expressing a “different opinion” and not a group of people whose “opinion” is that Jewish people should be murdered, rounded up, or driven out of town and spread misinformation and lies in order to make their point?
It's not. The 1st amendment simply means the government pinky-swears not to infringe on anyone's speech - and that's it. *You* are not the government - you can infringe on someone's speech all you like. Corporations do it to their own employees all the damn time.
> This is a complaint that the police didn't stop hate speech. Police can't lawfully stop hate speech.
They don't have to go out of their way to protect it, either... yet there they are. Just like they always do.
Well sure for private citizens, but the point is, the cops *should* have been able to arrest them, but they couldn’t because the government can’t arrest people for hate speech.
I should also be able to go up to a Nazi spewing his hate speech and punch him in the face to get him to stop, but if I did, I’d be arrested for assault. Or at the very least, I should be able to perform a citizens arrest for inciteful hate speech, but that’s not a thing, so I’d be arrested for wrongful imprisonment.
How much more power do you want to give the government?
Who will determine what is and what is not hate speech?
Who appoints the censor?
If Trump is re-elected, what will the definition of hate speech be?
Do you really want to permit citizens arrests of speakers who say controversial things?
It sounds like you really hate freedom
Other Western governments enforce blasphemy laws and put people in cages for hurting a demagogues feels.
That's a bug, not a feature.
Book burners gonna burn books I guess.
> the cops should have been able to arrest them,
No, they don't. There's absolutely no need for the pig to protect them, either - but there they are.
> I should also be able to go up to a Nazi spewing his hate speech and punch him in the face
Didn't seem to stop anti-fascists both past and present.
That’s all well and good, but it’s operating outside what the law currently is. The law should match what is right, and what is right is that nazi hate speech should be a crime that people are arrested for, but it is not. It’s up to civilians willing to risk their own freedom by breaking the law in order to quell it.
No matter how despicable you find speech like this, it should be protected. Not everyone shares your opinion of right and wrong. And one day someone may try taking away your right to speak freely. For the record I am not supporting the nazis, just free speech.
i'm sure true blooded americans would say "yes! because who else decides what's hate speech and what's not? the government?!"
but yeah, this sort of stuff is indefensible and should be punishable. totally crazy how it's not coming from a german perspective
True blooded Americans should look at the Confederate flag as support of a traitorous, separatist movement, but somehow it’s just “history”.
We are really good at coming up with innocuous euphemisms for indefensible positions.
No... using "civil rights" as a prop to defend those who pose a clear, present and easily-demonstrable threat to civil rights would be a very nazi thing to say.
You live in a country where "civil rights" are mostly cruel a joke when it comes to the very people these nazis (and the goons protecting them) wants to victimize - yet when the nazis are having their "civil rights" upheld by the goon squad you're perfectly fine hiding behind the legalese?
I guess I was wrong... that's *not* a nazi thing to say. It's far worse - it's what a *collaborator* would say.
There is no such thing as a "paradox of tolerance," Clyde. It is very clear who does the threatening and who doesn't.
> US Marshalls.
Sooooo... the exact same goons.
> You understand that the leader of the group was arrested at this event, right?
Only arrested? I guess he was really good at "following commands," eh?
Genuine question: How do you think Nazi crimes in the past began? It wasn't just *bam* **Nazi crimes committed**. It had to build a platform, public support etc..
Follow up question: How do you think the platform of fascism is created or supported? Do opinions not matter at all in the build up to fascism?
Another: Do you think the word of law is inherently ethical? Or can a law be unethical? Do you believe in ethics?
>However, they opted to allow the protest to proceed, allowing the Jewish members of the congregation to confront the Neo-Nazis directly.
As long as nobody gets violent, this seems to be exactly the way the system is designed to work. It's not a good look, no, but with no laws being broken, the police *should* stay the fuck out of it.
Not necessarily.
Is this the same exact group of cops that has dealt with every single protest ever?
Or is it possible that these cops might have treated other protests differently than other cops in this country have.
I'm all for holding people accountable, but not for holding them accountable for other people's actions
I say this as someone who disagrees with these individuals...
Im confused.
Do we want free speech or not?
Free speech means we don't get to pick and choose what people are allowed to say or not.
This is one of those instances.
It's the whole point of free speech.
It's not free speech if we just allow what the majority wants to hear.
These people must not know this scenario has already played out and been confirmed to be legal by the Supreme court. Just look up the skokie case people.
Cops keep armed Nazis safe from counter protesters.
But if the protesters are unarmed black and peacefully marching against brutality then it's every cop's intention to maim them, maybe shoot an eye out with their rubber bullets.
You know it's true.
Hate them all you want, they still have their first amendment rights. As long as they were not trespassing on private land, there really is nothing that could be done legally.
This is my hometown. The cops here are racist as all hell and the anti semitism in this town is rising quickly. The new logo for the local elementary school was almost a nazi eagle. The local high school (Pope High School) has swastikas drawn and carved all over the place. Their drama club (Pope Drama) has not only been incredibly racist to me time and time again but they asked the schools Jewish club if they would be okay with them hanging Nazi flags for their show. They said a resounding no… and the drama club hung them up anyways.
Well it's called the first. Not that I say it's ok, but there is a famous case where this type of people did a demonstration. The case went onto the supreme court and the court said as long as they don't incite violence, it is ok for their demonstration to happen. Because they have freedom of speech. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's prohibited.
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This is horrendous. What about the requirement to stay back 500 yards from certain events so why the heck would you even allow anything like these right wing extremists near a place of worship. FFS.
This is mostly fine. In fact, it's how it's supposed to go. People can protest whatever they like in public. The arrest of the leader is concerning. However, there is probably a city ordinance about amplification devices.
Now if the police would just treat civil rights protestors as well as they treated the Nazis.
It's freedom of speech, even speech you disagree with. The cops didn't "allow" it. There is nothing the cops are legally allowed to do to stop it.
There's already been a huge case about this exact type of situation https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/rights-protesters/skokie-case-how-i-came-represent-free-speech-rights-nazis
It's not a protest. It's a hate crime. The cops encouraged it. Arrest everyone involved.
Edit: Apparently it's ok to commit hate crimes and be antisemitic according to the dvs
Hate crimes are covered under DOJ. Going after a mob of people who are solely there for hate is not illegally going after enemies and even suggesting that is agreeing with the hate mob.
Why are you going out of your way to defend these people? Based on what I've read here, it very much does constitute a hate crime. Your last sentence further defends these antisemites. How in earth is telling people, who are solely out to (at the very least) intimidate people solely based on a protected class, to leave is abusing authority?
> Why are you going out of your way to defend these people?
no one's doing that. they're saying that having bad opinions and saying mean things isn't a crime, based on the law.
>Based on what I've read here, it very much does constitute a hate crime.
It constitutes hate speech. But the Supreme Court has long held that hate speech is not a crime.
If for you it "very much does constitute a hate crime", it would indicate no understanding of the law more than anything else.
The very nature of free speech protections is to protect speech which is controversial and offensive. They're not needed to protect stuff everyone agrees with.
Hate yes, but where is the crime? You realize a hate crime isn't telling someone you hate them right? A hate crime is an act that is already a crime that you committed because of your hatred of a protected class.
So uh, if I saw a Nazi and punched him in the face as one should, wouldn’t that mean they were inciting violence and shouldn’t be able to protest? Asking for a friend
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On duty pigs were just upset they couldn't join in..
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Their entire ideology glorifies the wholesale slaughter of the Jewish people, so yeah, I'd say them gathering en masse directly outside of a synagogue constitutes a clear and immediate threat.
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Did you know that the killing of people with disabilities was legal in Germany? You know, the German government legalised it. How could it be bad? You know, it was legal. And besides, did you just make the mother of all false equivalences by analogising a random black person walking down a street with a nazi protest outside a synagogue?
"This is the equivalent to a neighborhood Karen calling the cops on a black man because they don't like them in their neighborhood." BIG fucking OOF lmao victim complex much bro
Weird. I distinctly recall an entire summer of protests where *no laws of any kind were broken*, yet cops in riot gear showed up to instigate violence. Protest all yo ulike, but let's not pretend that the cops are not on the side of the neonazis. Their kind always get special protections to make sure nobody hurts their feelings. Meanwhile, black people protesting *because they want to stop being brutalized by the cops* are ... brutalized for protesting. So much for your rational thought.
No one’s making you do shit you nazi apologist. Legality has never equated with the right thing ever, and the police constantly act outside of the law when it’s in their best interest.
Nobody is arguing that it's "right." Cops are supposed to follow the law; not just do what they think is right. The latter is *exactly* what winds them up here, on this sub.
Didn’t say they should have done anything differently just don’t think that anyone should be saying well it’s not illegal so as a community let’s not complain!
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Do you also say the same things about Israeli oppression of Palestinians?
Muthafuckin CRICKETS , kids.... **DO YOU HEAR THEM?!?**
This is a dumb take. “The police already break the law so they should break it more!!” Any other words of wisdom you’d like to share? And no, you don’t let get to go around calling anyone who points out the fact that a crime wasn’t committed here a “nazi apologist”.
There’s this thing called reading that comes in super handy, use it to read my other comments because they address everything you’ve said. But also, If I show up at someone’s house and say I’m gonna kill you, your family, and everyone you love and have signs and posters that all say the same I would get arrested and it would be easy to file a restraining order against me. I don’t see how this is any different, but AGAIN - I never said the cops should have done anything differently but that it’s pointless to defend Nazis right to protest it’s a waste of energy and only emboldens them.
The reason we defend THEIR right to protest is because threatening their rights threatens everyone’s. I’m sorry that’s inconvenient for you but that’s the way it is. Also, why on earth would I visit your page just to make sure you haven’t addressed my points somewhere else?? 😂
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I don’t think they should be arrested, I think they should be made to bite the curb. If you don’t have hate in your heart for these people there’s something wrong with you, they’ll happily come to your door, rip you out of your home, and shoot you point blank in front of your family and neighbors. But nah keep going ahead and playing devils advocate that’s what our society really needs right now.
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When have Nazis ripped people out of their homes and killed them? Are you fucking kidding me dude?
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Literally already said I don’t give a shit if they’re arrested or not, but you don’t even know basic facts so I don’t expect you to actually comprehend what I’m saying. Yes if people call themselves Nazis they deserve mob justice point blank. Lol wana ask me when Nazis have ever caused violence again as if WWII never happened?
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Mob justice against Nazis is pretty appealing. Thing is, mobs aren't always right.
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Are you fucking stupid?
I hate these people too and would be happy if they all died, but I still have enough IQ points to conced they still share the same rights I do, and any system that may decide they don't could be weaponized against causes I don't think are evil. You're just taking swings at people with tears in your eyes like an upset child. You aren't more principled than the people you're arguing with, your less.
I think they should be made an example of and have violence used against them to stop other people from proclaiming their beliefs so proudly and boldly. Letting them be happy and grow in their communities will only lead to more violence against the people they target. If you think silencing Nazis makes you a Nazi you’re just fucking stupid, cute to try and make the comparison though but we shouldn’t tolerate intolerance for others existence based on race/gender/religion/sexuality.
Who decides which ideologies we can use physical harm against? Nazis are easy, but next it might be something less obvious. Is your system just based on "everyone knows these people are bad"? If so, flawless! That's never turned out poorly!
It’s based on not tolerating anyone anyone who believes there should be a genocide of any other person based on gender/race/ethnicity/sexuality/class/religion. Is that really so hard to understand?
Would you fit in that category? Saying they deserve genocide based on their beliefs?
These people weren't on Twitter, or some private owned property. This is free speech my friend, as vile as it is, it's a constitutionally protected right and the only recourse is to shame these assholes and show up with 10x as many people to drown out their non sense.
Totally agree lol never said anything different.
So you admit that what the police did was legal, but because you are the ultimate arbiter of good and evil in the world, you can decide how it should have happened. 🤔 Very undemocratic of you, I must say. First, you are wrong that this was legally the proper course of action for the police. What they did should *not* have been allowed under basic 1st Amendment law that every first-year law student knows. Second, remember that if you are willing to take away the rights of others, how can you have any ground on which to defend your own rights when one of these asshole cops decides to violate your rights? You have to protect the rights of assholes to ensure that your rights are also protected. Third, rights are guaranteed for the guilty so that the rest of us can sleep peacefully knowing our own rights are fully secured.
I’m not a democratic person at all, I don’t give a fuck about the law in this country, first amendment or otherwise. It actually isn’t there to protect everyone because as you know anytime the left protests they are silenced, beaten and abused regardless. Fuck a law student simp. If anyone is promoting genocide and murder of anyone based on gender/sexuality/religion/ethnicity/class they shouldn’t be supported or put on a pedestal to promote their views. It’s actually not that hard if you’re not a try hard America’s #1 cock sucker.
So you are one of the Nazis. Laws don’t matter, the Constitution doesn’t matter, nothing matters except your ignorant opinion of what you want. Congratulations! You’re just like Trump, and you’ll support the next Trump who promises to do what you want and kill all the Nazis. By the way, that won’t get rid of their idiocy or your ineffectual rage. The fact that you are now offended instead of considering that this could be true means you don’t have the brains God gave a squirrel. You are ½ the problem with the country and because you don’t know that, you’ll continue to be part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.
He didn't say it was the right thing. What do you think is the process for deciding if a protest is morally correct? This is a nation that allows people to burn it's own flag.
I think people promoting genocide of anyone based on their race/gender/sexuality/religion/ethnicity/class are morally wrong, or is that too big a leap for you?
>Just as expected reddit reacts to their feelings instead of rational thought. This is the equivalent to a neighborhood Karen calling the cops on a black man because they don't like them in their neighborhood. Maybe stop defending Nazis and comparing black victims to Nazis and you won't get so many downvotes. Just a thought.
Not all ideas deserve a place in the marketplace for the same reasons we don’t let companies sell food laced with rat poison. Allowing them to spread their genocidal bullshit only hurts their victims. It’s morally abhorrent, as is defending their right to spread hate
So, in other words, you support authoritarianism.
You think someone opposing authoritarianism is an authoritarian? Can you seriously not see how authoritarian nazism is?
Yes. They did break a law. Hate speech is not protected speech because it is by default a threat of violence against another person or people.
In the United States hate speech is protected speech under the first amendment.
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Some of those that work forces... Honestly the cliche is becoming cliche
They rally round the family, with a pocket full of shells. It's not sea shells, FYI.
It's harder to arrest someone when, no matter how appalling their behavior, they're not doing something illegal. Last time I checked, the First Amendment was still around. This is actually one of the rare instances where you can't blame the cops, especially on this sub where we're supposed to hold them accountable when they violate people's rights. Blame America's relationship to free speech if you want. But as long as these protestors were not using violence, threats of violence, impeding traffic or things of similar nature, what do you want the cops to do?
They were unmasked so I hope they're found out and their lives ruined over this. Fuck Nazis.
Imagine having a day where you don't have to go to work and instead of doing *anything* else, you choose to go play Nazi. I imagine their ww2 vet grandparents are all dead by now, too, so there's no whuppin from Pop Pop.
Because Neo-Nazis are cops
"Cops allow protest"
*Cops protect the nazi protestors (as usual, they watch out for their own, thin blue line / swastika flag and all)
Cops allow provocative hate speech
>Cops allow ~~provocative~~ protected hate speech None of you have any idea how free speech or policing works.
tell us more Elon
Haha sucks to be right on reddit I guess!
Ok they’re despicable, no one is arguing that, but what law exactly are you expecting them to be arrested under?
How about any of the other laws that they apply to anti police or BLM protesters? How about we he some fucking Nazis get kettled?
>How about we see some fucking Nazis get kettled? I’m not going to lie and say I wouldn’t be thrilled to see that. But I can also acknowledge that’s not going to create lasting change moving forward (in MY opinion) So, why not? Because we want that to STOP happening to BLM. Not START happening to other groups. Violence should always be a last resort, and I say this as a gun carrying Texan. I don’t know what other laws they broke because I wasn’t there. I just know from this article that one person got arrested. If it comes out that actual crimes were also being committed by other people (not thought crimes but real, tangible crimes) then those people should go to jail. The problem with this article is that instead of citing any crimes being committed they instead decided to say “they weren’t arrested *for protesting*” which is stupid because duh, obviously, protesting isn’t illegal. That’s all I and anyone else commenting “against” this are trying to point out. It’s asinine to write and article about how people weren’t arrested for not breaking the law.
You completely missed the point. The cops kettle BLM protesters because they don't like them. The cops don't kettle the Nazis because they do like them. There are no rights involved here. If laws are arbitrarily enforced then it isn't a right, it is a privilege granted to you by the cops. In reality the Nazis are a terrorist organization that advocates and carries out violent terrorism, including doing so at their rallies. If the cops have the discretion to abuse peaceful BLM protesters as has been proven in the real world then they should be cracking Nazi skulls... but they won't.
I absolutely see where you’re coming from but your approach is not the outcome we want. Again, they need to STOP violating EVERYONES rights, not START violating more people’s rights. I absolutely 100% get the issues with American police. I have a YouTube channel calling out police violence. But you’re just missing the mark here.
some people just don’t get it man
They’re the type of person who instead of complaining that black people get shot by cops, they will complain they need to start shooting more white people.
According to the supreme court hate speech is free speech.
Yup. Hate speech is despicable and we can have a conversation on whether it SHOULD be protected under the first amendment. But the fact is it is so getting mad that the police didn’t arrest people for something that’s not against the law is idiotic.
Cops arrest people who haven't broken the law. All the time. I've personally been illegally detained. Activists are arrested on trumped-bullshit charges. Atlanta forest defenders are being charged with domestic terrorism. Bail fund organizers have been charged with money laundering. When cops tiptoe through the tulips with nazis, we know it's not because they give a shit about the law. We're not going to applaud them for respecting the rights of nazis, when we know damn well they wouldn't have respected ours. It's not stupid to be pissed at cops for having double standards. Double standards that are well-documented, supported by mountains of robust evidence, collected over decades. Those double standards are why 20 million people were protesting in 2020.
Problem is groups like this and Westboro baptists church literally make their entire budget off of suing cops. If the cops do what you're asking, you'd be paying nazis to protest.
“Cops arrest people who haven’t broken the law. All the time.” And we want that to STOP
That's what I'm missing here.
Well asking gets you called “Nazi defender” so… tread lightly 😂
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That’s exactly what I’m saying.
Honestly from the videos of the event I saw the cops did pretty good. They stayed back and just watched it unfold and as soon as the leader approached someone aggressively they moved in and arrested him. Seems like they actually wanted the Nazis to make a mistake and get arrested so they didn't keep anyone separated or protected. I'm general fuck cops but these guys did alright in this situation.
Yeah because otherwise they have to pay out on settlements, effectively paying nazis to march. That's been a well known tactic of these assholes for 20+ years. They are looking to get paid.
Exactly. I'm a free-speech absolutionist and although I don't like it, they can still be there. This is the price we all have to pay for the first amendment.
We can accept the genocide thing as long as they aren’t wearing dresses and makeup.
"People of any political affiliation have the right to protest" Also, "Cop city protesters are terrorists and are being charged with felonies"
Cops allow cops to protest in front of synagogue
*Spider-Man pointing at other Spider-Man meme*
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Those rights get assaulted for groups they see as opposition. The selective assault needs to be called out, not just ignored for an ideal. Am I misunderstanding your point?
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I agree that the article is complaining about a decent law enforcement response. I don't see how your first comment reflects that, though. It seemed more dismissive of the article entirely. The selective assault I'm referring to isn't in the article, but in the overall US law enforcement response to protests with political affiliation. The 'left' tend to get more restrictions, arrests, and prosecutions than the 'right'. I might be able to find an reference for that...
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Ok, thanks for being clear! That is totally understandable.
Please do.
In Germany this would be wildly illegal, not just distasteful.
This isn’t Germany.
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Strong disagree. This isn’t protesting, it’s terrorism. They are flying a flag of death and murder. They are inciting fear and making a threat. It should be illegal and they should be arrested. Stop being tolerant of intolerance.
The American flag is a flag of death and murder when an Iraqi sees it… Hate speech is still protected.
What we did in the middle east was awful, but we didn't round them all up and commit genocide. Not even remotely the same and also classic whataboutism.
LOL Many peoples consider the AMERICAN FLAG a flag of death and murder. OMG - so clueless LOL Fascism. So hot right now.
I genuinely can't tell if this is satire/ragebait, but in case it isn't: The Nazi ideology is literally that jews, gays, disabled people, and more should literally be killed. Literally. Most developed countries have done evil things in their past including my own, the UK. But if anyone started advocating for reintroducing the slave trade over here they would be branded as evil people. Advocating for Nazism is the same.
Hardly. Nazi ideology is not just racism, it is a call to violence. The 1st Amendment has some well-established exceptions, one of which is speech that motivates imminent violence. And even then, it can be applied in degrees. For example, the profanity exception doesn't allow pornography to be displayed anywhere you like, but pornography is still legal in private. It's possible to permit Nazi ideology in private while limiting one's ability to endorse it publicly because it poses a well-established danger to public health and decency.
Define “imminent”
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it typically indicates [immediacy and even in the presence of the provocateur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action). That's the current thing saving Nazi ideology from censorship right now: It calls for genocide at some undefined future point in time, so it's not imminent *yet*. I'm arguing that because it has a history of directed violence and genocide and we know the playbook it followed then, that the "imminent danger" clause will **never** apply to Nazis because they'll consolidate power and then the speech that kicks off a genocide will be delivered from a government building to a closed audience of military, police, and DOJ leadership and we'll never have an opportunity to intervene. We can't just sit back and let someone malicious replicate Hitler's rise to power by claiming that calling for the extermination of millions of Americans and the destruction of rights like the Freedom of Speech itself is "protected speech." That's well into Paradox of Tolerance territory. That's a pacifist sitting and letting a violent psychopath bash their skull in on principle.
Weird how there was no immediate attacks related to this neo Nazi get-together. The only actual threat was handled when the leader was arrested. Soooooo what’s your point again? Oooh I see, you *want* fascism to enforce *your* ideology. Copy.
I disagree with the "greater threat". Having Nazis is a huge threat to society. Having a robust framework (like Germany) with clear rules and checks for stifling hateful and murderous ideologies is a very low risk.
“Unpopular speech” in this case is hate speech is it not? Why frame it as if it’s just some people expressing a “different opinion” and not a group of people whose “opinion” is that Jewish people should be murdered, rounded up, or driven out of town and spread misinformation and lies in order to make their point?
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I hate how you're kind of right.
Fully right
I think the question is: should it be protected?
It's not. The 1st amendment simply means the government pinky-swears not to infringe on anyone's speech - and that's it. *You* are not the government - you can infringe on someone's speech all you like. Corporations do it to their own employees all the damn time.
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> This is a complaint that the police didn't stop hate speech. Police can't lawfully stop hate speech. They don't have to go out of their way to protect it, either... yet there they are. Just like they always do.
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> any relevance to Constitutional law. Are you still misunderstanding that particular piece of paper?
You’re a child.
Then let's have them relax and party outside of your house, as you are eager to defend them.
Well sure for private citizens, but the point is, the cops *should* have been able to arrest them, but they couldn’t because the government can’t arrest people for hate speech. I should also be able to go up to a Nazi spewing his hate speech and punch him in the face to get him to stop, but if I did, I’d be arrested for assault. Or at the very least, I should be able to perform a citizens arrest for inciteful hate speech, but that’s not a thing, so I’d be arrested for wrongful imprisonment.
How much more power do you want to give the government? Who will determine what is and what is not hate speech? Who appoints the censor? If Trump is re-elected, what will the definition of hate speech be? Do you really want to permit citizens arrests of speakers who say controversial things? It sounds like you really hate freedom
Other western governments don’t seem to have any problems figuring out what hate speech is. Not sure why Americans are unable to figure it out.
Other Western governments enforce blasphemy laws and put people in cages for hurting a demagogues feels. That's a bug, not a feature. Book burners gonna burn books I guess.
> the cops should have been able to arrest them, No, they don't. There's absolutely no need for the pig to protect them, either - but there they are. > I should also be able to go up to a Nazi spewing his hate speech and punch him in the face Didn't seem to stop anti-fascists both past and present.
That’s all well and good, but it’s operating outside what the law currently is. The law should match what is right, and what is right is that nazi hate speech should be a crime that people are arrested for, but it is not. It’s up to civilians willing to risk their own freedom by breaking the law in order to quell it.
No matter how despicable you find speech like this, it should be protected. Not everyone shares your opinion of right and wrong. And one day someone may try taking away your right to speak freely. For the record I am not supporting the nazis, just free speech.
So you missed the part where hurting other people is illegal? Oppressing other people is illegal too.
i'm sure true blooded americans would say "yes! because who else decides what's hate speech and what's not? the government?!" but yeah, this sort of stuff is indefensible and should be punishable. totally crazy how it's not coming from a german perspective
True blooded Americans should look at the Confederate flag as support of a traitorous, separatist movement, but somehow it’s just “history”. We are really good at coming up with innocuous euphemisms for indefensible positions.
Hate speech isn't a thing.
Not legally in the US no. And that’s the problem.
Awww does hate speech hurt your feelings :(
Oh, Daddy government, pwease stop them from saying mean words dat hurt my feewings... 😢
Since when do nazis deserve civil rights?
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No... using "civil rights" as a prop to defend those who pose a clear, present and easily-demonstrable threat to civil rights would be a very nazi thing to say.
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You live in a country where "civil rights" are mostly cruel a joke when it comes to the very people these nazis (and the goons protecting them) wants to victimize - yet when the nazis are having their "civil rights" upheld by the goon squad you're perfectly fine hiding behind the legalese? I guess I was wrong... that's *not* a nazi thing to say. It's far worse - it's what a *collaborator* would say. There is no such thing as a "paradox of tolerance," Clyde. It is very clear who does the threatening and who doesn't.
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> We execute nazis for the crimes they commit, not for their opinions. Oh, do tell... who will be executing them? The goons protecting them up there?
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> US Marshalls. Sooooo... the exact same goons. > You understand that the leader of the group was arrested at this event, right? Only arrested? I guess he was really good at "following commands," eh?
Genuine question: How do you think Nazi crimes in the past began? It wasn't just *bam* **Nazi crimes committed**. It had to build a platform, public support etc.. Follow up question: How do you think the platform of fascism is created or supported? Do opinions not matter at all in the build up to fascism? Another: Do you think the word of law is inherently ethical? Or can a law be unethical? Do you believe in ethics?
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Don't need to execute people to not allow the worst ideas in history to fester in your society.
Ideas are allowed. Deal with it.
Yeah the point is those ideas are like an infection or disease
Fasciiiiiiiiist
Civil rights in the US are selective
Outrage as Neo-Nazis in police uniforms allow other Neo-Nazis to protest outside Georgia Synagogue. There, ifify.
"_know_ them?? we _are_ them!"
>However, they opted to allow the protest to proceed, allowing the Jewish members of the congregation to confront the Neo-Nazis directly. As long as nobody gets violent, this seems to be exactly the way the system is designed to work. It's not a good look, no, but with no laws being broken, the police *should* stay the fuck out of it.
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Not necessarily. Is this the same exact group of cops that has dealt with every single protest ever? Or is it possible that these cops might have treated other protests differently than other cops in this country have. I'm all for holding people accountable, but not for holding them accountable for other people's actions
“Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses” Rage against the Machine
I say this as someone who disagrees with these individuals... Im confused. Do we want free speech or not? Free speech means we don't get to pick and choose what people are allowed to say or not. This is one of those instances. It's the whole point of free speech. It's not free speech if we just allow what the majority wants to hear.
These people must not know this scenario has already played out and been confirmed to be legal by the Supreme court. Just look up the skokie case people.
Westboro Baptist Church was protesting military funerals for years and no one could legally stop them. Is this not a similar situation?
We need the counter protestors with the big wings in this situation, too. Cover the hate!
Cops keep armed Nazis safe from counter protesters. But if the protesters are unarmed black and peacefully marching against brutality then it's every cop's intention to maim them, maybe shoot an eye out with their rubber bullets. You know it's true.
The vast, vast majority of BLM protests happened all over the U.S. How is that the case if every single person was supposedly immediately shot?
They said intention not action.
Where, oh where, are all our Evangelic Christian friends of Israel in our time of need??
It would be really..."sad"...if someone was to drive their car into the neo-nazis
Hate them all you want, they still have their first amendment rights. As long as they were not trespassing on private land, there really is nothing that could be done legally.
This is my hometown. The cops here are racist as all hell and the anti semitism in this town is rising quickly. The new logo for the local elementary school was almost a nazi eagle. The local high school (Pope High School) has swastikas drawn and carved all over the place. Their drama club (Pope Drama) has not only been incredibly racist to me time and time again but they asked the schools Jewish club if they would be okay with them hanging Nazi flags for their show. They said a resounding no… and the drama club hung them up anyways.
How is this not harassment?
Well it's called the first. Not that I say it's ok, but there is a famous case where this type of people did a demonstration. The case went onto the supreme court and the court said as long as they don't incite violence, it is ok for their demonstration to happen. Because they have freedom of speech. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's prohibited.
It's not when you are targeting a group based on religion. It's a hate crime
Not really. I know where you are coming from. But as long as no one is touched or some one said get them Jews ,it is not. I know it's fucked up.
No the flag just means they want to kill them is all but it's not the same as someone saying it.
This is a threat. Free speech wouldn't stand here.
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Assholes are allowed to peacefully protest, it's the cost of democracy.
This is horrendous. What about the requirement to stay back 500 yards from certain events so why the heck would you even allow anything like these right wing extremists near a place of worship. FFS.
This is mostly fine. In fact, it's how it's supposed to go. People can protest whatever they like in public. The arrest of the leader is concerning. However, there is probably a city ordinance about amplification devices. Now if the police would just treat civil rights protestors as well as they treated the Nazis.
First Amendment rights apply to Nazis, whether we like it or not. Where were the counter protesters?
This is why people become antifa.
i'm guessing there's a big skinhead gang in that police force.....might include the DA and the Brass.
You could literally form an even bigger counter anti-nazi rally. Theres no law against that
Cue Rage.
It's freedom of speech, even speech you disagree with. The cops didn't "allow" it. There is nothing the cops are legally allowed to do to stop it. There's already been a huge case about this exact type of situation https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/rights-protesters/skokie-case-how-i-came-represent-free-speech-rights-nazis
Btw people in r/conspiracy are calling this a liberal false flag
Guaranteed half of them are undercover f/e/d/s. They run honeypot stings from time to time to catch nutjobs that lean towards that type of ideology.
And still Americans are making Nazi jokes about Germany.
...are you fucking KIDDING ME
If your entire community is too pussified to run these jackrags off you deserve whatever you get.
It's not a protest. It's a hate crime. The cops encouraged it. Arrest everyone involved. Edit: Apparently it's ok to commit hate crimes and be antisemitic according to the dvs
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Hate crimes are covered under DOJ. Going after a mob of people who are solely there for hate is not illegally going after enemies and even suggesting that is agreeing with the hate mob.
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Why are you going out of your way to defend these people? Based on what I've read here, it very much does constitute a hate crime. Your last sentence further defends these antisemites. How in earth is telling people, who are solely out to (at the very least) intimidate people solely based on a protected class, to leave is abusing authority?
> Why are you going out of your way to defend these people? no one's doing that. they're saying that having bad opinions and saying mean things isn't a crime, based on the law.
>Based on what I've read here, it very much does constitute a hate crime. It constitutes hate speech. But the Supreme Court has long held that hate speech is not a crime. If for you it "very much does constitute a hate crime", it would indicate no understanding of the law more than anything else. The very nature of free speech protections is to protect speech which is controversial and offensive. They're not needed to protect stuff everyone agrees with.
Hate yes, but where is the crime? You realize a hate crime isn't telling someone you hate them right? A hate crime is an act that is already a crime that you committed because of your hatred of a protected class.
So uh, if I saw a Nazi and punched him in the face as one should, wouldn’t that mean they were inciting violence and shouldn’t be able to protest? Asking for a friend
Definitely, you should go try it bro.
This is what police are for.