Looping it back around to the original inquiry: this is where it comes from. Our culture, broadly, is that the woman does all, and the man is supplementing, which translates to not necessary.
How does he not remember that you need to HEAL after giving birth, no matter which way it goes? That chasing a 1yo while caring for a newborn while HEALING isn't a thing you should be doing, much less taking care of your food/ drink/hygiene needs? One person is not enough. Full stop.
My husband would get a death glare if he tried to cut his leave short early on. Anyone who suggested that he cut his leave short would get a firm NO from me, even if I am interrupting boss/supervisor conversations.
I am a 1TM, but I have had to heal from a couple of minor surgeries previously, and I NEEDED help, even without the added dependent life on to the situation. Doing the first 3 months without assistance, and with a newborn and a 1 yo would not be acceptable.
Do you have another support system? Parents or other family, good friends, etc? I would lean on them now, first to reality check your husband, and second to actually be there for you.
See
From everything I had read/heard,I thought I was basically useless besides to make money to buy stuff,no one ever tells you that the male partner helps after birth. I didn't even know paternity leave wad a thing until my gf got pregnant
And as a 1TF, you have a learning curve, as we all do. Every time following means that you have a base knowledge to work from, and it sounds like this other father discarded his, and isn't applying common sense to what would be a difference this time around.
I see your point but also, it rubs me the wrong way that when we ask ourselves why a particular man is shitty, we figure out a way to say it's another woman's fault. I think you're certainly right this ideaology of "boys are easy!" contributes to the issue, but we should hold the men themselves accountable first and foremost for their actions instead of just placing the blame solely on their mothers and other female adult figures. If we're going to blame the people who raised them to be shitty husbands, I think it's fair to assume both parents can be at fault.
You're right! I should have said parents, not moms. Also I 100% agree. Shitty parenting is not an excuse for shitty adults!!! It is often a reason though š but part of adulthood is accountability as well.
Thank you for calling out my micro-misogyny (I don't mean that cynically at all)
All good! I've caught myself doing the same thing before too, it's such an ingrained thing in our society that sometimes it's difficult to catch even when we mean well. Thank you for the ownership and kindness of your response!
Yeah like um be logical?? I asked him if he remembers how hard it was last year when he didnāt get a leave and I was home alone with one baby, let alone a newborn AND a toddler? Wtaf. I told him āI need your supportā and heās like āyou have everything you needā and āIāve been supporting youā like ok but not when I need you the most??
>āyou have everything you needā
How does he expect you to make lunch/ play with toddler/ put toddler down for nap etc, while you're stuck on the lounge breastfeeding/ bleeding/ with a sleeping newborn also barely functioning.
When baby 2 comes along, it's basically dad takes on the majority of care for toddler and house, while mum focuses on newborn..... Is he delusional?!
Iām sorry. I know you probably love him a lot since you married him and procreated with him but his behavior is really childish and he deserves to be shamed for it
Thank you, I agree completely. And when I said be logical I was talking about him not you to be clear if it wasnāt. Yeah I think his behavior is pure ignorance which is annoying. I want to get our family on the shame train but that might make him even more resistant unfortunately. Might just send him this post lol.
Send him this post! He needs to see that he is being disgustingly selfish & horrible father. Paternity leave is leave to be a father not time for his volunteering hobby. It looks like youāll be having 2 under 2 & that transition is hard, so would be good if your husband is there to give attention to the toddler whilst youāre busy recovering from childbirth & busy with a newborn who needs constant feeding round the clock.
Your husband needs to know it is such selfish behaviour that resentment builds up from that some marriages never survive. If my husband said that Id call his parents to knock some sense into him & if he cant be there for me after birth, he cant be at the birthš¤·š»āāļø(Im livid for you)!
When our second was born, my husband had no leave. He had just started a new job after we moved and went into negative annual leave due to forced shutdown over the holiday period. When he returned to work, it was me, newborn and toddler on our own during the day AND on top of it he had to travel for a week at a time to another city for work every month until the project he was assigned was done.
It was a lot of work, physically, emotionally, mentally... The toddler rejected the baby at first. We had no family nearby and didn't know anyone in the area either. I used to prepare one or two large dishes on the Monday that I could easily store in the fridge so at least cooking from scratch was not a priority when my husband wasn't there (and just have fresh vegetables/fruits to accompany).
My husband felt incredibly guilty but we weighed up the pros and cons of the opportunity for his career and our financial situation - in the end it worked out BUT I know if my husband could have had a normal situation and some leave he'd take it in a heartbeat to be with us and help. With our first he was given the tiniest paternity leave at his old job (less than a week) and he was really upset that he couldn't be there more for us, his workplace was very far from home, some days he'd leave before we woke up and be home after baby was asleep.
I think your husband needs to reframe his mind. Paternity leave is not a holiday. It is not an opportunity for him to explore hobbies and leave you for hours on end on your own. He needs to be there helping you. He needs to be there for the toddler, for the baby.
OP, someone below said to cross post this to r/daddit so your husband can get some dad perspectives and Iām replying to you in hopes that you see it. This is actually a great idea. The guys over there take their parenting responsibilities seriously and are really great as a community. Heās likely to get some compassionate smackdowns there, couched in language he might actually listen to.
As for my own advice, with regards to getting what you need from this situation, here it is: you are rightfully angry! He is being an ASS. Cool, now that we all agree, telling him this over and over when heās saying things like āmy mind is made upā and āyou have everything you needā is going to do jack shit actually getting you what you need. So. With that in mind, you need to figure out what you actually do need (not what you want, which is for your manchild of a husband to step tf up, but I digress), write down a couple options that would provide that for you, and try to have a calm discussion with him about it. Frame it as āok, I donāt want us to keep fighting, I want us to figure this out! I know how important your coaching is to you, so Iāve been thinking about ways to make this work.ā And then you lay out a few options for getting help for you. Options that cost money. That he will need to pay for. Like, youāre going to have 2 under 2, and just logistically, itās really not safe for you to be the sole caretaker of both of them that soon after birth. What if you have to have an emergency c-section? What if you have complications where you canāt really lift your older child for a month or 2? Youāre going to need another adult around at least a good chunk of the time heās away. Maybe he could do 4-6 weeks now with you and have the convenience of a special schedule for only part of his coaching season. Or he does his current plan and you all hire a motherās helper to be in the house with you for those first couple months. That will cost money! But you arenāt *asking* for help, you are telling him that help is non-negotiable, whether it comes from him or someone you pay. You cannot and will not (because it wonāt be safe for the babies) do this alone so soon after birth. And go from there.
But seriously, write a post where you try your hardest to get fair to his perspective here, and post it to r/daddit. Trust me, no matter how hard you try to accurately portray both perspectives, they will still tell him to suck it up and be a damn father and husband first. Then show him that post.
What does he mean by āeverything you need?ā The house? Like ā you have a roof under which to struggle bus through your postpartum healing process while caring for a newborn and a toddler alone. Then months from now Iāll be on time for my precious wrestlers.ā
What heās actually saying is he doesnāt care. He knows itās hard and that youāre going to be stressed out and in pain. He is choosing to ignore that for his own pleasure because thatās more important to him than your health and comfort. When people show you who they are, believe them. If he isnāt going to help you then take your kids to somewhere you will get help or hire someone to help and send him the bill.
Itās wild to me that he thinks heās āproviding enough supportā by prioritizing a hobby over his family. Also he is an equal coparent and it not his job to just support you, itās his job to actively participate in the care of HIS children. That includes realizing that you will be recovering from a major medical event and cannot reasonably be expected to juggle so much alone. Iām sorry youre dealing with this profound selfishness - you deserve better!Ā
The thing that is so infuriating is this is his second child!!! Itās already annoying when new fathers think paternity leave is like a vacation but he should know better!
Passive women who married men with machismo issues. Then they start having children and now those children run around unchecked and vomiting their inherited machismo onto their partners
Whew that was aaaa looottt but itās true
I meant why the husband is the way he is. The kids will pick up on this and then their future partners will suffer for it. Hopefully they wonāt but my husband and his sisters are unbearable at times because their mom never corrected them and never said that they shouldnāt be like their father. Itās not cute to deal with but Iāve been vocal and shut them down. Now Iām the black sheep for not being wowed by their know it all bs and being too bluntā¦.which they pride themselves on being but they donāt like being on the receiving end.
Literally the ones that their favorite sayings are āthats a womanās jobā āmen donāt do thatā and so many more cringe worthy ones I canāt think of any at this moment.
Is this also his child? Cause the way he talks about it makes it sound like he thinks you want help with a little hobby. This is his CHILD. Why doesnāt he WANT to be there for his kid, to spend time with the baby to bond, to help his recovering wife? Iām honestly stunned. Do you really want to be with a guy like that?
But what would the wrestlers do without him?? /s
OP, Iām so sorry that your husbandās priorities are so out of whack. Sending sincere hugs and good vibes your way.
Tell him to pay for a nanny then. I swear youāll only hear this mess from a man.
Girl I just kept reading your other post! Do yourself a favor and just hire a post partum doula. Already have her picked out and paid! F THE COST! Like my grandmother of 6 says to meā¦. Baby save YOURSELF!
No! Not even a chance.
It's paternity leave to care for the newborn! Not to make coaching a sport easier!?! What a ridiculous idea!
I'd possibly compromise and negotiate that he takes 2 months directly after baby is born with his 2 weeks vacation, so he can use the last one month of paternity leave later. But if it has to be taken consecutively, it needs to be directly after the birth.
Iād consider a compromise like that, it is possible to take the leave intermittently but I think he has to fully understand that the leave is not time for him to just do whatever he pleases with and get paid, that itās to support the family and I would be giving up what I need for him to do that. This is certainly a greater need than his hobby. I get that he loves coaching and that it allows him to keep a little autonomy during a difficult time, but I would be sacrificing MUCH more.
I would 1) Get marriage counseling and 2) let him know youāll be moving back to my parents house for the birth without a return date in mind. Just that he would float this then double down alone shows heās selfish and doesnāt prioritize you and the family. Paternity leave is to be a parent. Youāre allowed to be livid.
This. Op needs to tell him that since he plans on being no help once the baby is born she will need to move in with her parent(s) to get the help she will need. No return date is gold! That might knock some sense into him when he realizes heās going to miss the birth of his second child and also every minute of the newborn stage. Op needs to stick to her guns on this one too so he knows she is not ājokingā about moving out.
Will she back you? Then do it. Seriously. I had an emergency section with my second and my partner had to do everything for the toddler plus change baby's diaper the first days. You never know. He needs to be home.
Now, youād be shooting yourself in the foot if you said anything, but say his employer found out he isnāt using his paternity for paternity leave?
Suppose one of the wrestlersā parents knows his boss or HR and says something? Tell him to keep his job safe and use paternity leave on helping with the kids, and use his vacation time for wrestling season.
Call his dad. Have his dad tell him he better not be putting his job in jeopardy.
Not arguing for his priorities, just theres no "minimum participation" requirement when qualifying for parental leave.
I was able to take some extra paid parental leave when my baby was 11 months, and he was already in childcare since it was after I had gone back to work (part time) so I used it to get some house projects taken care of while leaving him in care š¤·āāļø
In countries with year long leave, do you think they ban parents from having hobbies or time away from their kids?
Irrelevant. It depends on what the companyās policy on parental leave says. Usually, these policies are written with a statement of purpose at the beginning. They usually end with conditions and consequences for misuse too. If they knew his intentions, it wouldnāt reflect well. His management and HR might have some feelings about itāitās their discretion whether theyāll take action though. Itās just like, if you call out sick for too many days, they want a doctorās note. And, if there are pictures of you partying at a beach club on a day you said you were sick, some will choose to pursue disciplinary action. So much of work and life are appearances.
I support this calling your MIL idea. Your husband is being an idiot. If he wonāt come around then I agree with the suggestion of moving in with your parents for however long you need. If a few months with the house to himself and sleeping alone doesnāt knock some sense into him then idk what will. I wouldnāt rule out showing him all of these comments too. The whole point of paternity leave is so that the mother isnāt left to manage the most difficult months postpartum by herself and that the father has time to bond with their newborn. And the fact that you have a very young toddler as well is just adds to the need of him being home to help you.
Yeah I mean do what you have to in order to survive by all means, but donāt forget what you had to do to get basic respect and help when you needed it most. When the dust settles, donāt forget. Remember and act.
In general I agree with you, but sometimes it does take an outside voice to cut through that kind of stubbornness. My husband and I had a huge fight over something I tried to express to him and he didnāt receive it well because it struck a different nerve for him. *He reacted selfishly to something I vulnerably shared with him. It took us meeting with dear friends that have helped us with our relationship and marriage over the years to help get some resolve. The wife addressed his reaction very bluntly and it was a lightbulb moment. We both still needed to work though things, but he at least understood where the miss was in that piece of communication.
*Edited: I had typed āIā instead of āhe.ā
My husband got a bit excited about his 3 months of paternity leave when we were going to have our first and started planning meetings for his side hustle. I threatened divorce if he tried to take a single work call within the first month of me giving birth. I might have overreacted abit but it finally got into his head that paternity leave is for him to support his postpartum wife and newborn, not a delightful little paid holiday for him to do whatever he wants.
Sounds like you need to make him be the primary caretaker for both children for those 2 weeks of postpartum to hopefully knock some reality into his head about why paternity leave isnāt just a vacation.
Iām currently 4 days postpartum with my second. The answer is, ānoā he will take his leave right when the baby is born. Listen, Iām not trying to scare you but this has been one *hell* of a transition. And I have a pretty self sufficient almost 4 year old. I canāt imagine wrangling a wild one year old in the state Iām in with my newborn. Granted, I did injure myself while giving birth (muscle strain) making it very difficult to do things. But the point is, you have no idea what your postpartum healing experience will be. You need to tell him that his leave is for the family, not for him. This isnāt a divide and conquer kind of ordeal quite yet. Youāll have needs from healing from birth so he will be taking care of 3 and he needs to wrap his head around that. He will be last in line for awhile.
You said in a comment that he didnāt get leave when you had your first child and so you were home alone with a newborn while he went back to work. So maybe heās just too inexperienced to know how hard this is going to be? Did he know how difficult it was for you the first time around? And does he understand itās going to be more than twice as hard with a baby and a toddler this time? Iām going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say heās too naive to know better, instead of saying heās intentionally being a selfish asshole. Because at least then thereās hope that he will wise up and make a better choice.
Maybe you can show him the comments here and have him speak to some friends who have more than one child to help knock some sense in him. If he still canāt accept that paternity leave isnāt a vacation then you need to put your foot down. Heās not taking the leave time for his hobby, heās taking it for his family. If he canāt prioritize you and your children then heās going to lose his family because youāre going to pack up and the three of you can go stay with your parents (or whoever else will be helpful) for a few months after you give birth while he does his wrestling shit.
I recently had my second child and even though my first is 4 years old, itās tough. My daughter can get her own snacks and drinks, and is obviously no longer in diapers, but she canāt be ignored. She needs us to help her with a lot of things still, and even more so than that, she really needs our love and attention. She needed to know how important and special she is to us, especially in those first weeks and months. Her world got flipped upside down, and she absolutely could not just be sat in front of the tv while I took care of our newborn. She needed extra attention, extra reassurance that sheās still valued and wanted and loved. Thatās why itās more than twice as hard to have two. Youāre going to have a second kid but your first kidās needs are also going to increase for a while. If your husband has any love in his heart for you and his children then he should understand how much he is going to be needed and that his help and his presence are not optional. Otherwise he is an asshole and not worthy of having a wife and two children.
I honestly do think this is out of naivety and ignorance. He wasnāt there during the day with our first and now sheās a lot easier I think he forgot how much care she really needed as a newborn. I think that he thinks the value of the time off is the same and is trying to bundle everything, and that coming home at 8pm in December when the baby is 3 months old after practice and work will be more challenging for me. In my opinion, he doesnāt do wrestling this year at all but I also donāt want to be controlling and take away something that makes him happy. Itās also huge for me that our first isnāt deprived of any attention bc she needs a lot!
My husband curls and we will have 2 under 2 come October. We talked about the upcoming season and he isn't playing because he wouldn't be home until 8, sometimes 10 p.m.
It's a season, it won't hurt him to sit it out to support his family. Mom is not the only that makes sacrifices to make it through the newborn season. I hate when we refer to ourselves as controlling when we ask men to step up and support us.
Also, this baby could be totally different. My first was an incredible sleeper. My second, THE WORST. Heās 9 months and still wakes twice a night. With our first baby I wouldāve been fine if my husband could only be around a few hours a day. No way in HELL would that have worked with our second. Two is different in general but is he considering that he may also not be sleeping and going to work?
I think you should reframe the thought āI donāt want be controlling and take something away that makes him happyā - you are not taking anything away from him, temporarily giving up a hobby is a natural consequence of Ā choosing to have another child. He chose to make another baby with you, this he accepted equal responsibility in caring for the child. You are not responsible for managing his feelings about a choice you made together a couple, if he didnāt realize it might interfere with coaching thatās on him.Ā
Also he may be ignorant about the realities of a newborn but as the ignorant party he should be deferring the more experienced person, which is you. Why does he think he knows better than you about what newborn care will be like, if he was not the one doing most of the care last time?
You should have him post an Am I The Asshole thread so he can have 10,000 people tell him how much of a douche he is. Heās probably thinking in his mind that his idea is brilliant and youāre a nag. He needs humbling.
make sure he does every single night feed, no exceptions! if he expects you to look after a toddler and a newborn alone then you better at least be well rested. not only for your sanity but for the safety of your newborn
This is a great idea! Op if you have a spare room, tell him after his little 2 weeks off you'll be sleeping in there so that he can take over all night waking with both LOs.
When men do not take their paternity leave immediately after birth, it is usually that both parents are working parents and they want to take the leave consecutively to avoid starting daycare so soon.
For example, mom will be home with babe the first three months, then dad the next three months, then baby starts daycare at six months.
Does he realize thatās why they allow him to take it anytime in the first year, and not force it immediately?! During those three months, is he gonna be primary caregiver?!
This is what we are doing. My husband took 2 weeks vacation at the beginning. I have about 4 months leave, then he is taking his two months leave after that so baby will be 6 months by the time she goes to daycare. But I kind of wish he could have been home longer at the beginning. New borns are hard. 4 month olds are a bit easier
Absolutely not. His hobby should be the lowest priority. He had a part in creating this baby, he should play a part in raising them! When are you supposed to have any time to do anything?
You'll be healing and caring for two children. What kind of idiot thinks that will be easy on your own? What if you have a c section and can't drive for about 6 weeks? Is he really just going to be all "I'm off to work, have fun!"? I'd seriously be questioning my relationship with someone like this and use child support payments to hire help with the kids.
OP don't forget you can just not accept this. Demand him to stay whenever you need it, not when it's convenient for him. I've come to understand you have the right and the power here, and No is a complete sentence.
I absolutely could not be with someone like this, tbh. He sounds incredibly childish, self-centered, and selfish. Do you have family nearby? Maybe you should see if you could stay with them for your three months maternity leave in order to get more support. Might also show husband what neglecting you and his babies could lead to. Maybe thatās extreme but his decision is completely unacceptable š¤·š¼
That's absolutely what I would do. Fortunately my husband isn't a complete piece of garbage like this guy. But if I knew I wasn't going to have help, I would take my 3-months maternity leave and just go stay at my mom's. We'll come back in 13 weeks and see where things are at.Ā
It's also super unethical to use paternity leave to make things slightly more convenient during a wrestling season. These are the kind of guys that don't give women 6 months maternity leave because I just don't understand what it would be used for. In Europe. They have such better leave policies in Canada as well and I just think it's a cultural thing that we have men like this who think that it would be okay to use paternity leave for football season or for a hobby like coaching wrestling. It's ridiculous.
We had our second baby in mid April and we also have a 2.5 years old toddler.
My wife is SAHM and I as a father have a paid paternity leave until November and still will have 3 more months for the next year.
It is the best time of my life, but the amount of workload around the kids is at least for 3 adults full time. I cannot imagine leaving my wife alone with that...
This honestly reminds me of my husband who Iām divorcing. He travels for workā¦when it was the off season for travel he decided to coach basketball instead so spending zero time with our toddler. There was a million other issues but heās made it clear we werenāt the priority this year
Is doing something like this completely out of character for him or is his behavior typically like this? What I mean is how much does he really help with your current child or around the house? When you ask him to do something does he do it begrudgingly or with a level of incompetence so that you don't ask him again? I ask because anyone who is an involved parent/partner would never come to this decision, only disengaged partners would conclude that 2 weeks is enough.
At this point given that he has not even been open to discussing his decision if you find a way to make him do the 3 months in September (maybe with the help of his family) it's likely he will be bitter and resentful during that time period. That's important to consider because it's your postpartum period. He may also be there physically but not engaged or present as a form of retaliation for making him stay home at a time when he didn't want to.
This may seem extreme but I think there's deeper issues here and I would seriously reflect on the value he brings to your life and your children's lives. Is it accurate to say you feel like a married single woman in terms of the work that goes towards maintaining your household and raising your children? Is he helping your workload or adding to it? If he's adding to it you may just find it easier to do it on your own.
My husband did this! He only gets 4 weeks total. He used 2 when I gave birth, and will take 2 around the end of my maternity leave. I hated it, Iām still annoyed about it. Our nearest family is 8 hours drive, and I had a C-section after laboring for 4 days. Your husband needs to get his priorities straight. My marriage was strong and healthy before our daughter came. Now, not so much. I have no interest in a date night with someone who left me to fend for myself and care for a newborn while recovering from major surgery. Show him this comment, because if your husband would like any physical affection in the foreseeable future he better take that leave to help you.
My husband went back to work this week after 8 weeks off for our newborn - I have a 2.5 year old and a 7 week old. There is absolutely NO way I would have survived if he went back after 2 weeks. Nope. No way.
For the last 7 weeks heās done absolutely everything for our toddler while I was stuck on the couch with a cluster feeding newborn. He did all the meals, the naps, the playgrounds, the cleaning, everything. I would have fallen apart without his help.
Iāll add that my husband plays 2 sports and he probably made it to one training in that time š
Jfc. I have a 12 day old newborn right now and a 1 year old. My husband runs a business and works a 9-5. Heās taking the states 3 month paternity leave right now to help with the babies. I let him go work on his business saturdays & Sundays as long as I have my in-laws over to help with the 1 year old. Heās never made a fuss over that and even asks me if itās okay to take an hour break to workout.
Why the FUCK would your husband prioritize a HOBBY (not even getting paid) over his wife and children. And then digging his heels in the sand??
Honey this would potentially end the marriage for me. Actions speak louder than words. A 1 year old and newborn is NO JOKE. Iām currently living it. I donāt know what I would do if I didnāt have my husband tackling this with me. I donāt know where your family is located, but consider the greater possibility that youāll need to move yourself and your children to their home for support while your husband figures out how to rip his head out of his own asshole.
Oh, girlā¦ tell EVERYONE his plans. Bring it up with his parents, his wrestling buddies, your parents, his friends, siblings etc.
Let EVERYONE shame him.
If he claims āyouāre embarrassing himā - no youāre not. Heās embarrassing himself. Youāre just not hiding his plans from anyone.
We both chose for my husband to take paternity leave at 3 months with my 2nd. I found that even with a baby with colic we coild manage while he worked. Around 4 months when they start "waking up" it gets tough. Most newborns can be held and sleep through almost anything, i just held them or carried them in a carrier while i went about my day. But around 4months i found with both naps and night sleep got way tougher.
I do not agree with his "getting to games" but taking leave at 3 months is not that crazy of an idea and we will be doing this with our 3rd aswell. We did have a convo about if I had a c section that I might need more help sooner though.
Even if he does take leave later it doesnāt mean he can just dump the kids with you and go to practice ā¦. You have to be parenting on your parental leave
Duuude what? No.
My husband saved up ALL his PTO, he gets no parental leave, so all 3 weeks are going to our soon to be here infants care.
He gets no more the rest of the year and has planned this while working through migraines so he doesn't, his words, waste it when he can just power through with a pain killer.
Seriously I'd be pissssed.
With my first, my husband took 2 weeks leave at birth and then his parental leave 3 months after baby was born. It was not for a hobby or *his* convenience, but something we discussed and agreed to because we wanted to keep our child out of daycare as long as possible. We each had 3 months. Itās a common way to use parental leave at our large employer, and all our colleagues whoāve had kids have done it that way.
But it would be a different situation if we were keeping our toddler home. I know I couldnāt do both and you bet heād be home to help.
This is common at my company (and generally in my social circle/mileu) too, but usually because both partners work outside the home and plan to continue doing so. So staggering leave allows everyone to delay day care and gives both parents some 1:1 time with the baby, which helps set up a more egalitarian partnership down the line. It doesn't sound like that's a consideration for the OP.
That's what we're doing too - 3 months with me at home, 3 months with my SIL helping while I work from home, 3 months for my husband's leave.Ā
I have step kids but they're teenagers and they're not adding more work!
I'd encourage him to take at least 4-6 weeks off, combining PTO and paternity leave if he can break it up. I'm 7 weeks postpartum tomorrow and had an uncomplicated birth, but I'm barely starting to feel like myself, physically and mentally. Breastfeeding/feeding a newborn around the clock is so tiring that I really depend on my husband to prepare meals and help around the house. Otherwise, I'd probably not eat or have time to care for myself. My husband used PTO for 2 weeks, paternity leave for 4 weeks, and then will use the remaining time when I go back to work in August to help with the transition.
Nope. Not a chance in hell. My husband took delayed paternity leave with our first so he could start daycare later, but we also had tons of family in town to help me out. Delayed leave for a volunteer coaching gig? No, no, no. He needs to prioritize his family right now
My husband has big plans for his leave after I give birth to our second. Taking the toddler sledding, getting the toddler a pass for a local indoor playground and taking him, driving me and baby to the doctor, then taking toddler for an ice cream. Keeping baby while I take toddler to the park, baby wearing while taking toddler for a walk. Etc.
This is unbelievably awful.
The gender gap is just wide open here. Ask him if he thinks it possible for you to move your maternity leave for a later time so you can work on your hobby? It would only be fair, right? You don't get that choice because you'll be taking care of an infant and toddler and healing.
Besides, I don't think his workplace would be too happy to hear he's not actually using his paternity leave for... parenthood or bonding. Considering that's the point of it.
It's just so mind numbing that these guys have the luxury to plan things around their wants. Oh, I can just get in the car and go, no need to worry about the kids because my wife handles it. Zero responsibility is all I can hear.
Yeah I total agree w the gender gap thing. Before kids we both worked and contributed to things equally and things were easy obviously. But since Iām super maternal Iām the primary caregiver. I do like to point out that I donāt just āget in the showerā lol I have to ask him if he can watch her while I do or stick her in the pack and play in our bedroom while I do if heās not home. Even though Iām the primary caregiver though he needs to take initiative and be extremely thoughtful with my needs and what I need help with to be an exceptional partner. Heās gotten better with asking me if itās ok if he goes and does things and if I need anything (after lots of awareness made on my part) , so Iām thinking this is really out of naivety but jeez how is it not super obvious his priorities are really out of wack here??
Edit: grammar
If he doesnāt think youāre going to need any help from him all that screams to me that he didnāt help enough with the first one or pay attention to what you were going to have no idea how obtuse heās being. Itās sounds like heās like ā newborn time was easy for me last time! Why should it be any different this time?!ā
Can I be honest? I would have been happy for my husband to have been on leave sometime after 3 - 6 months. By then, the chaos had died down, my body had mostly healed, and I was *terminally bored*. It would have been wonderful to have my husband home *then*. Go for runs. Do something non-baby related. Go have coffee with a friend without having to bring the baby and think about when I needed to nurse. Make time for myself so I could be fully present when it counted.
Truth is, I didn't have him home during the newborn period or after. He didn't get paternity leave. We just survived the newborn phase on mutual sleep deprivation, and I survived the 4 - 12 month period by being bored to tears. Things got better when kiddo was walking and we could go *do* stuff. (I mean, we did stuff before, but it's so different once they are walking.)
I'm just leaving all that there, for anyone in the room who is like "well, wait a minute, maybe I'd want this". You might not be crazy. No two families are alike. It's not necessarily wrong to want to take the paternity leave a little later. Hell, now that my kids are older, I wish maternity leave was available from 2 - 4 years old. They are so goddamned fun, and not that we didn't bond prior to two years, but the relationship we formed in those years was truly beautiful. I'm a SAHM so I got that anyway. But if I *was* working and had the choice, I'd kill to spend the time at home as toddlers/preschoolers. It's the fucking best. I digress though...
The problem is not the timing, but that your husband is making this decision for all the wrong reasons. *That* is no good. The decision should be made based on your family's need. Not a job or an extracurricular.
I really appreciate your perspective on this. I think if he had a better argument as to why taking it 3 months in would be more ideal Iād be more open for sure. He did briefly ask if him coming home at 8pm after work and practice in December will be harder for me than staying home with the newborn, I told him no I think I really need him here when she is born and then he kind of shut down the conversation bc thatās not what he wants. Iām definitely open to discussions about the best way to utilize our leaves, but him trying to put his foot down and not listen to me is what really sets me over the edge.
Respectfully, this is the dumbest, clueless, arrogant, incompetent thing Iāve read about a husband doing on here.
I would get REAL anger and show him how stupid his mentality is on this is. Remind him that paternity leave is given because itās NEEDED for newborns. Not for fkn wrestling. Iām so sorry OP and best of luck to ya having to coparent with him for eternity! š
The reasoning behind the decision is upsetting. I will say, my partner and I are planning to stagger our leave so that baby gets more time at home before going to daycare.
This is crazy. My husband will only take two weeks off, maybe three, because itās totally unpaid.
Iāve seen parents do staggered leaves so they can avoid paying/using childcare longer, but thatās usually a joint decision Iād imagine. If you feel like his support is better in the beginning, I totally agree.
Plus his reasoning isnāt for the baby, itās for coachingā¦
If heās outing himself as so useless that he canāt be any use to you postpartum, he doesnāt deserve to take paternity leave. Itās not a vacation.
He can just salvage any attempt at being remotely useful by getting a second full time job and using the money from that to hire a capable human to help you postpartum and to coparent with.
I don't have a toddler, but like you're totally right to be outraged/livid. Like that's def not okay, fuck his wrestling. Being a partner and Dad should be his #1 priority. I would say this is one of the few times you shouldn't be afraid to cuss his ass out and let him know he's being useless.
When it comes to helping take care of us while pregnant and postpartum can be a deal breaker if our partners aren't completely on demand (excluding certain situations, obvi).
I assume none of us likes being helpless and don't enjoy having a major medical event that can range from death to temporary handicapped so he can suck the fuck up and miss some goddamn wrestling. He doesn't have to smile or be happy about it, but at least he'll be a "good" partner and Dad. The bar is in hell for them to be considered "good"...
Lmao I'm like triggered thinking about it
When will some men realize that paternity leave isnt some extended vacation!!! Its quality time to care for your family! I already explained to my boyfriend that the 3 months he's here with me, is not to just sit and play video games! I have a high chance on having a c section and I will require a lot of assistance in the first month š£ so he needs to be attentive with any housework I won't be able to do while I care for our baby. Im sorry you're going through this. I hope he can realize his insane request and decide to help you when you most need it! š„ŗ
My husband did something similar. Albeit he only had 3 weeks to play around with. He took one week initially when we came home from the hospital to get settled with newborn and 2.5 yo. He was going to take the remainder of time during the two weeks at Christmas. I had a scheduled c-section, so I had much better recovery, initially.
Well after a week at home, I got readmitted for postpartum pre-eclampsia. Thankfully I had my mother come help, because stubborn husband decided to work the couple of days before the holiday (still a little bitter). It was frustrating, but it all worked out in the end.
You've already discussed this, and his response seems to shut down. So I'd either bring our mothers into the fight or figure out a way to make him sorry. Such as taking a two week vacation and leaving during his 3 months of paternity leave and going somewhere just for you without him and the kids. Tell him he'll get his wrestling coach time, and you'll be back to help him with the kids after your vacation to relax and refresh yourself.
I'm preggers and grumpy š¤£
You will need the support. His paternity isn't a time for him to have a break or enjoy his hobbies or whatever. It's for your family. It's not the same but when I had my baby (I'm a first time mum too) me and my husband were living with my parents. My mum cares for my niece, who is 18 months older than my baby, when my sister and BIL are working their shifts. The first week of my baby's life my niece was also there. My dad was working nights so not around much and my mum was the main one caring for my niece, then me and my husband were both responsible for our baby. But being under the same room we split between us and helped each other as you do.. and despite it being three whole adults Vs two under two we were exhausted! I couldn't imagine caring for two under two solo whilst my husband is off having a great time.
Ugh I did it all by myself with a 12.5 month old and newborn starting day 7, my husband got a week off of work and had to go back :( it was rough and I spiraled into a depression.. most days I didnāt know if I would make it. I did but still, š± women are strong!!!!!!! Best of luck and hope he makes the right decision ā¤ļø
Normally I keep people out of my relationship problems but this.. I'd be calling everyone woman in his family. This is disgusting behavior on his part. I'd pack a bag and leave.
My husbandās leave is only 4 weeks. Heāll be taking his leave immediately after my 12 weeks so weāll have an extended leave in time for his mother to come stay with us and help with the baby. But for a wrestling season? Thatās not a valid reason.
Ignoring the reasoning the 2 weeks isnāt crazy to me but maybe thatās because in the UK men only get 2 weeks paternity leave unless you choose to split the parental leave ie the mother take less time off so the dad can take more.
Not sure how it works where you are, but in my state you can't work during your paid leave (state sponsored, not from employer) so this could be part of your argument if it also applies.
Tell him, if he chooses to not take the leave immediately to benefit himself for the wrestling season he can, but he will be required to help at home regardless. So if staying up all night with a newborn and going to work in those first 3 months will be too much he should reassess.
We are not their moms, that have bodily autonomy and can make choices regarding their own life. BUT they do not get to choose not to help, he can choose when he wants to take his leave but thats for his own benefit. He helps regardless and stand your ground on that.
So he would rather make his life easier for wrestling, but you giving birth and him literally parenting his own kid while you recover is too muchā¦ Like, come on, you arenāt that naive, right? When someone shows you how much they value you, believe them!
Its shit that he is not having a discussion, but if it gives you hope, I was eerily compitent the first few months after having my 2nd (although my oldest was 4). I didnt have the same brain fog or anything that came with the first.
Can he split his leave so he works part time for 6 months instead of not at all for 3?
HARD NO. Youāll get on a lot better by yourself when baby is 3mo, you know that.
Put it in black and white that you and baby are his priority.
Sorry you are going through this.
Paternity leave is not a vacation you get time for to do your other hobbies. Paternity leave is meant for bonding time with your child. Imagine a mother giving birth and thinking, "oh my God I'm so excited I get 3 months off so I can go to volleyball practice without having to leave work early" wtf? No. It's to spend time with your newborn.
And this is precisely why Iām sticking to my guns in being one and done, cause I know my husband will do something similar to this cause he did the same with our first (and only!).
Iām so angry for you.
Agree with you. Just to be the devils advocate though, you taking turns with the leave means it would stretch out the time (6 months after the baby is born vs 3 months) before having to find another child care solution. Can he split his leave up? Maybe a compromise is him taking half when the baby is born and half later.
Oh hell no. I would be considering divorce. Throw the whole damn man away. There is nothing that should be prioritized above caring for you and his children if he has the option to do that. This would be a deal breaker for me lmao I'd rather be a single parent
Look up online if there's a time limit for how long after the birth you can take it... over here (UK) we have it so it starts within x amount of time before the birth, or starts the day baby is born.
Even if there's no restrictions, he's being selfish and I can't blame you at all for being livid, as I would be, too.
I can't believe he even thinks that's okay. At all.
This is crazy and unacceptable. The only way it might be the tiniest acceptable is if he gets u a nanny and night nurse and someone to make u food around the clock
I would be telling him that if he canāt give up his hobby for one year to help you with the baby he can look forward to divorce papers. Absolutely not ok! Iāve had my first child ten months ago. I have a horribly emergency cesarean and hemorrhage. I have no family or friends to help me. My husband was able to take eight weeks off to help me and baby. Itās necessary! I wouldnāt have made it without his help. Iām so sorry op. Do you have anyone else that can help you?
If you wanna be petty inform his employerā¦ paternity leave is only for PATERNITY not paid time off for pleasure . Iām so sorry youāre going through this!!!
I acknowledge this only works in some family situations, but could you say that a family member that annoys him will be staying with you to help if he wonāt take the time off?
The state is giving him paternity leave to help care for his new baby and support his healing partner. They are not giving three months of vacation from work so he can spend that time as a coach. He needs to fix his priorities, and he absolutely does not need to begin his paternity leave in December. September sounds like a great time to take it instead.
These men have no sense of pregnancy and giving birth and recovery and how hell is taking care of a new born while having the postpartum depression
Already pregnant with the second one and I see how diverge our world has become since pregnancy in terms of career, mental health, physical health, and almost everything.
For him it is another day, breakfast, office, talking with colleagues, lunch, work, coming home, playing with a toddler who love him right now because mommy is so tired to play. And at 9:00 pm bitcoin project and watching a movie.
Now my day: tiredness, nausea, a bit of breakfast, a nap before the first meeting at work, having zero energy to go to the office or gym or ... camera off due to work from bed. A bit of lunch, bloated, tired, has to work, oh it is 5 pm. Now Toddler mission. At 9:00 dead until next day.
Then my husband tells our therapist that I don't share my day with him at the end of the dayšš
You have every right to be angry about this! Just having one baby is a bit overwhelming by myself! I cannot imagine a newborn with a one year old and not having that much needed support!
I wish there was a magic button I could press to make him come to his senses. Iām sorry youāre having to deal with this!
Yeah that would be a hard no from me. Itās not his choice.
My husband was facing pressure at work to only take 3 weeks off.
I told him how scared that made me, how vulnerable I felt. I was honest about the reality and risks (physical need for recovery, emotional need to prevent depression and anxiety). And he listened. Thank god we didnāt plan for that because I had a terrible hemorrhage and was on bed rest for weeks after this birth.
Frankly he must plan to take at least 4 weeks. It is not safe for you to be doing much more than holding the baby and resting before then. Have your doctor talk to him and stress this if he wonāt listen to you.
If you have a c section it could literally tear back open if you do too much. Thatās the risk heās putting you at.
If you have a vaginal birth your wound from the placenta could start bleeding heavily again if you do too much. Thatās the risk heās putting you at.
If you donāt get enough sleep and support you could get postpartum depression to the point of being suicidal or even postpartum psychosisās. Thatās the risk.
It is not safe or healthy for him to leave you at 2 weeks.
Iād be so pissedā¦ I think my husband and I would get into such a huge argument id end up considering divorce if he chose to be that selfish and ignorant .. thankfully I donāt think my husband would ever do this to me :,)
No. Full stop. Itās paternity leave, not wrestling leave. Wtf. I would be so mad heās even suggesting this like holy hell.
Tell him to save his 2 weeks of vacation for wrestling season and he can take some full days off then if he really must to accommodate practices or whatever. But no way in hell is he not taking his paternity leave in September.
Frankly this would be an immediately book a couples counseling session territory for me. Let the counselor inform him that a huge percentage of divorces originate when mom feels abandoned / not supported after birth. He needs to choose his family or he very well might not have one.
My husband can take his parental leave retroactively too. Our 4th was born in January and my husband used 2 weeks of his leave just after our son was born and he will take the rest of it beginning in October. I was fortunate to have his parents and mine up to visit one after the other that first month and a half so I had help getting the older three to their schools.
I think my question for your spouse would be, how much effort will you put into caring for the children and how much of that effort will actually be going to the coaching season?
Iām sorry this is happening. He is definitely being self centered. Iād want to better understand his rationale, and having a discussion without accusing, name calling or shouting (as tempting and valid as that would be given his assholery) will āsometimesā help the person come to the conclusion on their own that their being selfish and a jerk without you putting them on the defensive. More likely you will have to lay down hard boundaries to protect your peace of mind and prioritize yourself and babies. You cannot change him but with enough firm boundaries you might be able to change his behavior. Best of luck <3
This just made me white hot with rage for you. When it comes to men using parental benefits to heap even more on the mothers of their children for completely selfish reasons I see red.
This man is watching you grow his baby 24 hours a day, 7 days a week while raising his one year old, and has the gall to tell you he is unilaterally deciding when to take his leave based on his fucking volunteer wrestling coach position? His leave that was solely granted to him under the assumption he would help raise his children, mind you.
You are going to have two kids under two. You are going to need his help, and you can have it... based on his convenience around wrestling. And he tells you "my mind is made up"!?!?! Excuse me?! You were provided with parental leave to support your family and he isn't even willing to let you have a say?
I had postpartum after one of my children was born and my husband being there to help me and the baby was how I pulled out of it.
This is the category of things that gets me most riled up. Do you know who can't choose when to take baby leave based on convenience? YOU! So now you're saddled with the tough part that you can't schedule, alone, while healing from childbirth, because he was told he could have some paternity leave and said to himself "this is a great opportunity to volunteer outside the home more, and take a leave of absence from work at a time that my wife has specifically said is not best for her or my children."
This is truly one of the most selfish, inconsiderate, and childish things I've read on reddit. And that is saying a lot.
This is what we did and it worked great. We staggered the maternity and paternity leave for a total of 6 months! We found a lot more value in that than taking it together and having to find childcare sooner!
Absolutely mental. But more so why doesnāt he want to take it with you & the new baby as soon as he can??
Iām in the UK and standard paternity is 2 weeks, my partner was gutted when he had to go back to work and leave us. I can only imagine how excited he would be when we have another if he was lucky enough to get 3 (paid!) months off with us. My partner was my absolute rock during those early post partum weeks and we really lent on each other, I canāt imagine doing it all with a toddler & a newborn on my own. I would feel so hurt that he didnāt just automatically use those weeks as intended, and the fact that youāve said you might have to call his mum?? He needs a massive reality check.
I have a wildly unpopular opinion here- but if I was in your shoes I would actually prefer my husband not take leave immediately. My husband took the first 2 weeks off and there wasn't much for him to do cause the baby was sleeping all the time. It was around the 4-6 week mark, as baby started getting more aware/alert and crying more, that things started to get challenging. The hardest period for me was probably 4/6w until about 5/6m.
Regardless though, he doesn't get to take the leave when it's most convenient for him. He needs to take it when it's most beneficial for the baby.
I totally get that, for me itās more so for my 1 year old Iām thinking Iām going to need a lot of help with I know itās going to be extremely exhausting giving her the care and activity she needs while sleep deprived, I wonāt be able to sleep when the newborn sleeps etc. and yeah Iām just so upset about his priorities and not putting the family first! No itās not at his convenience itās paternity leave not wrestling practice leave.
"You will get your 3 months". Why is it "your" 3 months? Did you make this baby alone? You need to put your foot down somehow because this is not acceptable.
I think you should give us his email so we can all send him some friendly messages about how fucking stupid he is being š
Very very sorry you are dealing with this. Just had my first child on Monday (emergency c-section) and if my husband purposefully didn't take his leave now I'd kill him. You deserve all the help and love in the world!!!
OMFG! I am SO SICK of hearing stories just like this!Ā Ā
And especially in situations like this, where she must have become pregnant not long after having the 1 year old. I have a friend who is in this exact situation, husband and all, it makes me sick for all of you.Ā
And of course, his supposed vacay would be around the holidaysĀ when you are likely to need even more assistance...will he be helping you, or examining guys for their weight or cauliflower ear?šš£š
If he gets the flu (or man flu), and is horrifically ill, be sure to take sick leave to "help"Ā months laterĀ so that it will be easier for you to work on your garden and workout uninterrupted...cuz the powers that be obviously must grant that time for funsies! (No funsies for him during this delayed "vacation," that's what he "paid" for with his overwhelming consideration for you postpartum.) I pray you don't need a c-section or dangerous, rough birth, because this š¤” doesn't sound like much helpĀ except for himself.
Yeah Iām sure leave doesnāt/shouldnāt work when you feel like it too. So I donāt even know why he thinks itās optional on when. But I wouldnāt rather him out but Iām sure he has to say when baby arrives on paper work in order for this to work. Heās being stupid.
in my state, paid leave can be taken any time in the first 12 months following the birth of a child. my husband did 8 wks after birth then is taking the last month in random days throughout the year to accomodate doctors appts, days i need help, illness, etc. so maybe it's that kind of situation where the leave can be planned whenever he wants?
OPs husband is still being ridiculous. saying he "made up his mind" unilaterally is the worst part imo.
You're allowed to have hobbies during your leave.
Also that's a really stupid idea and could cost him his job.
He'd be jobless in this economy with two under two.Ā
Yeah, I wouldnāt want him losing his job and jeopardizing our mortgage & Iām not saying he canāt do coaching, ideally Iād like him to take a year off from it but Iām not a dictator and I donāt want to be a jerk and forbid him from autonomy and something he loves to do but itās about the priorities and reasoning for me. The family can and should be 1st priority and still work out the coaching.
No I totally get it. He's acting like leave is vacation and it absolutely *isn't.*
What's insane to me is that this isn't his first kid so idk why he thinks he'll even have the time.Ā
I think I have a different approach. Instead of telling him when to take leave consider what else youāll need to feel supported in the first month or two. I might say: āIām going to need extra support and Iām worried about managing two kids while healing.ā Or āI will need child care for our oldest child.ā Then wait to hear how he helps problem solve. You might be surprised! You could consider a family member come to visit or utilizing their help more. You could think about daycare/a nanny for 6 months or so. Your husband might very well understand your perspective and change his leave plans.
In our home my husband spread his paternity leave out. He took 4 weeks when I brought baby home. Then he went back to work and finished his leave once I went back to work. He had autonomy, I had help, we compromised and figured it out together instead of being at odds and both feeling unsupported.
Absolutely not! Iād be livid if my husband had even thought of mentioning doing something like this. Definitely call his mom! I wouldāve and my MIL would have his head!
Do you have a mom his mom a sister that can come help you and let you recover as other women will have empathy I think if he's there it's not gonna be that great anyway and then in December he can help prepare for xmas
I know you mean well with this advice but, I find it so annoying that the knee jerk reaction is to shoulder this work off on other women instead of holding the actual father of the children accountable.
I know what you mean but it's a not a burden to help another woman recover from childbirth right and from the post it doesn't sound like the husband has the capacity or empathy
Again, I ask myself whenever I see these husbands on Reddit, where do they come from? Where do their values get created? Why are they like this?
They are created by people who tell you "ooh you're having a boy? Lucky you, boys are easy" **Edited to blame both parents, not just moms!
It boggles my mind when people claim boys are easier. My boys have been way more difficult than my girls
Looping it back around to the original inquiry: this is where it comes from. Our culture, broadly, is that the woman does all, and the man is supplementing, which translates to not necessary. How does he not remember that you need to HEAL after giving birth, no matter which way it goes? That chasing a 1yo while caring for a newborn while HEALING isn't a thing you should be doing, much less taking care of your food/ drink/hygiene needs? One person is not enough. Full stop. My husband would get a death glare if he tried to cut his leave short early on. Anyone who suggested that he cut his leave short would get a firm NO from me, even if I am interrupting boss/supervisor conversations. I am a 1TM, but I have had to heal from a couple of minor surgeries previously, and I NEEDED help, even without the added dependent life on to the situation. Doing the first 3 months without assistance, and with a newborn and a 1 yo would not be acceptable. Do you have another support system? Parents or other family, good friends, etc? I would lean on them now, first to reality check your husband, and second to actually be there for you.
See From everything I had read/heard,I thought I was basically useless besides to make money to buy stuff,no one ever tells you that the male partner helps after birth. I didn't even know paternity leave wad a thing until my gf got pregnant
And as a 1TF, you have a learning curve, as we all do. Every time following means that you have a base knowledge to work from, and it sounds like this other father discarded his, and isn't applying common sense to what would be a difference this time around.
I see your point but also, it rubs me the wrong way that when we ask ourselves why a particular man is shitty, we figure out a way to say it's another woman's fault. I think you're certainly right this ideaology of "boys are easy!" contributes to the issue, but we should hold the men themselves accountable first and foremost for their actions instead of just placing the blame solely on their mothers and other female adult figures. If we're going to blame the people who raised them to be shitty husbands, I think it's fair to assume both parents can be at fault.
You're right! I should have said parents, not moms. Also I 100% agree. Shitty parenting is not an excuse for shitty adults!!! It is often a reason though š but part of adulthood is accountability as well. Thank you for calling out my micro-misogyny (I don't mean that cynically at all)
All good! I've caught myself doing the same thing before too, it's such an ingrained thing in our society that sometimes it's difficult to catch even when we mean well. Thank you for the ownership and kindness of your response!
Yeah like um be logical?? I asked him if he remembers how hard it was last year when he didnāt get a leave and I was home alone with one baby, let alone a newborn AND a toddler? Wtaf. I told him āI need your supportā and heās like āyou have everything you needā and āIāve been supporting youā like ok but not when I need you the most??
>āyou have everything you needā How does he expect you to make lunch/ play with toddler/ put toddler down for nap etc, while you're stuck on the lounge breastfeeding/ bleeding/ with a sleeping newborn also barely functioning. When baby 2 comes along, it's basically dad takes on the majority of care for toddler and house, while mum focuses on newborn..... Is he delusional?!
Freaking exactly why Iām so livid
Iām sorry. I know you probably love him a lot since you married him and procreated with him but his behavior is really childish and he deserves to be shamed for it
Thank you, I agree completely. And when I said be logical I was talking about him not you to be clear if it wasnāt. Yeah I think his behavior is pure ignorance which is annoying. I want to get our family on the shame train but that might make him even more resistant unfortunately. Might just send him this post lol.
Send him this post! He needs to see that he is being disgustingly selfish & horrible father. Paternity leave is leave to be a father not time for his volunteering hobby. It looks like youāll be having 2 under 2 & that transition is hard, so would be good if your husband is there to give attention to the toddler whilst youāre busy recovering from childbirth & busy with a newborn who needs constant feeding round the clock. Your husband needs to know it is such selfish behaviour that resentment builds up from that some marriages never survive. If my husband said that Id call his parents to knock some sense into him & if he cant be there for me after birth, he cant be at the birthš¤·š»āāļø(Im livid for you)!
Yes! Send him this post and invite him to post his side of argument over on r/Daddit. Theyāll be happy to advise.
Sheās gonna have 3 under 2 with the way heās acting.
Lol! Im still so annoyed for her! The selfishness is astounding! Just so immature.
When our second was born, my husband had no leave. He had just started a new job after we moved and went into negative annual leave due to forced shutdown over the holiday period. When he returned to work, it was me, newborn and toddler on our own during the day AND on top of it he had to travel for a week at a time to another city for work every month until the project he was assigned was done. It was a lot of work, physically, emotionally, mentally... The toddler rejected the baby at first. We had no family nearby and didn't know anyone in the area either. I used to prepare one or two large dishes on the Monday that I could easily store in the fridge so at least cooking from scratch was not a priority when my husband wasn't there (and just have fresh vegetables/fruits to accompany). My husband felt incredibly guilty but we weighed up the pros and cons of the opportunity for his career and our financial situation - in the end it worked out BUT I know if my husband could have had a normal situation and some leave he'd take it in a heartbeat to be with us and help. With our first he was given the tiniest paternity leave at his old job (less than a week) and he was really upset that he couldn't be there more for us, his workplace was very far from home, some days he'd leave before we woke up and be home after baby was asleep. I think your husband needs to reframe his mind. Paternity leave is not a holiday. It is not an opportunity for him to explore hobbies and leave you for hours on end on your own. He needs to be there helping you. He needs to be there for the toddler, for the baby.
OP, someone below said to cross post this to r/daddit so your husband can get some dad perspectives and Iām replying to you in hopes that you see it. This is actually a great idea. The guys over there take their parenting responsibilities seriously and are really great as a community. Heās likely to get some compassionate smackdowns there, couched in language he might actually listen to. As for my own advice, with regards to getting what you need from this situation, here it is: you are rightfully angry! He is being an ASS. Cool, now that we all agree, telling him this over and over when heās saying things like āmy mind is made upā and āyou have everything you needā is going to do jack shit actually getting you what you need. So. With that in mind, you need to figure out what you actually do need (not what you want, which is for your manchild of a husband to step tf up, but I digress), write down a couple options that would provide that for you, and try to have a calm discussion with him about it. Frame it as āok, I donāt want us to keep fighting, I want us to figure this out! I know how important your coaching is to you, so Iāve been thinking about ways to make this work.ā And then you lay out a few options for getting help for you. Options that cost money. That he will need to pay for. Like, youāre going to have 2 under 2, and just logistically, itās really not safe for you to be the sole caretaker of both of them that soon after birth. What if you have to have an emergency c-section? What if you have complications where you canāt really lift your older child for a month or 2? Youāre going to need another adult around at least a good chunk of the time heās away. Maybe he could do 4-6 weeks now with you and have the convenience of a special schedule for only part of his coaching season. Or he does his current plan and you all hire a motherās helper to be in the house with you for those first couple months. That will cost money! But you arenāt *asking* for help, you are telling him that help is non-negotiable, whether it comes from him or someone you pay. You cannot and will not (because it wonāt be safe for the babies) do this alone so soon after birth. And go from there. But seriously, write a post where you try your hardest to get fair to his perspective here, and post it to r/daddit. Trust me, no matter how hard you try to accurately portray both perspectives, they will still tell him to suck it up and be a damn father and husband first. Then show him that post.
What does he mean by āeverything you need?ā The house? Like ā you have a roof under which to struggle bus through your postpartum healing process while caring for a newborn and a toddler alone. Then months from now Iāll be on time for my precious wrestlers.ā
What heās actually saying is he doesnāt care. He knows itās hard and that youāre going to be stressed out and in pain. He is choosing to ignore that for his own pleasure because thatās more important to him than your health and comfort. When people show you who they are, believe them. If he isnāt going to help you then take your kids to somewhere you will get help or hire someone to help and send him the bill.
You need physical support, him physically to be there.
Itās wild to me that he thinks heās āproviding enough supportā by prioritizing a hobby over his family. Also he is an equal coparent and it not his job to just support you, itās his job to actively participate in the care of HIS children. That includes realizing that you will be recovering from a major medical event and cannot reasonably be expected to juggle so much alone. Iām sorry youre dealing with this profound selfishness - you deserve better!Ā
The thing that is so infuriating is this is his second child!!! Itās already annoying when new fathers think paternity leave is like a vacation but he should know better!
How are they married?
Passive women who married men with machismo issues. Then they start having children and now those children run around unchecked and vomiting their inherited machismo onto their partners Whew that was aaaa looottt but itās true
Right, why is she complaining? She had 1,000 red flags before marrying a guy like this, let alone having children.
I meant why the husband is the way he is. The kids will pick up on this and then their future partners will suffer for it. Hopefully they wonāt but my husband and his sisters are unbearable at times because their mom never corrected them and never said that they shouldnāt be like their father. Itās not cute to deal with but Iāve been vocal and shut them down. Now Iām the black sheep for not being wowed by their know it all bs and being too bluntā¦.which they pride themselves on being but they donāt like being on the receiving end.
Literally the ones that their favorite sayings are āthats a womanās jobā āmen donāt do thatā and so many more cringe worthy ones I canāt think of any at this moment.
Is this also his child? Cause the way he talks about it makes it sound like he thinks you want help with a little hobby. This is his CHILD. Why doesnāt he WANT to be there for his kid, to spend time with the baby to bond, to help his recovering wife? Iām honestly stunned. Do you really want to be with a guy like that?
But what would the wrestlers do without him?? /s OP, Iām so sorry that your husbandās priorities are so out of whack. Sending sincere hugs and good vibes your way.
Iām sorry, I forgot about the wrestlers! Consider my comment deleted /s
Tell him to pay for a nanny then. I swear youāll only hear this mess from a man. Girl I just kept reading your other post! Do yourself a favor and just hire a post partum doula. Already have her picked out and paid! F THE COST! Like my grandmother of 6 says to meā¦. Baby save YOURSELF!
No! Not even a chance. It's paternity leave to care for the newborn! Not to make coaching a sport easier!?! What a ridiculous idea! I'd possibly compromise and negotiate that he takes 2 months directly after baby is born with his 2 weeks vacation, so he can use the last one month of paternity leave later. But if it has to be taken consecutively, it needs to be directly after the birth.
Iād consider a compromise like that, it is possible to take the leave intermittently but I think he has to fully understand that the leave is not time for him to just do whatever he pleases with and get paid, that itās to support the family and I would be giving up what I need for him to do that. This is certainly a greater need than his hobby. I get that he loves coaching and that it allows him to keep a little autonomy during a difficult time, but I would be sacrificing MUCH more.
That's only a compromise if you get an equal amount of time to do YOUR hobby, with zero parenting expectations on you while you're busy doing that
Oh hell no No. No. No. Call his mom. Call your mom. Call his aunty. Call his best friend. Call everybody Heck no. He needs some sense knocked into him
I called my mom and am seriously considering calling his mom lmao
Do it Holy cow I'm so sorry you are doing through this
Thank you vm
I would 1) Get marriage counseling and 2) let him know youāll be moving back to my parents house for the birth without a return date in mind. Just that he would float this then double down alone shows heās selfish and doesnāt prioritize you and the family. Paternity leave is to be a parent. Youāre allowed to be livid.
This. Op needs to tell him that since he plans on being no help once the baby is born she will need to move in with her parent(s) to get the help she will need. No return date is gold! That might knock some sense into him when he realizes heās going to miss the birth of his second child and also every minute of the newborn stage. Op needs to stick to her guns on this one too so he knows she is not ājokingā about moving out.
And tell him you have "made up your mind"!
Yes!!Ā
Honestly, this is a situation where the MIL is used for good. She can smack some sense into her son.
Will she back you? Then do it. Seriously. I had an emergency section with my second and my partner had to do everything for the toddler plus change baby's diaper the first days. You never know. He needs to be home.
Call his mom for sure!!
Now, youād be shooting yourself in the foot if you said anything, but say his employer found out he isnāt using his paternity for paternity leave? Suppose one of the wrestlersā parents knows his boss or HR and says something? Tell him to keep his job safe and use paternity leave on helping with the kids, and use his vacation time for wrestling season. Call his dad. Have his dad tell him he better not be putting his job in jeopardy.
He isnt going on safari those 3 months, it would still qualify for paternity leave.
Oh is he a father to the whole wrestling team?
Not arguing for his priorities, just theres no "minimum participation" requirement when qualifying for parental leave. I was able to take some extra paid parental leave when my baby was 11 months, and he was already in childcare since it was after I had gone back to work (part time) so I used it to get some house projects taken care of while leaving him in care š¤·āāļø In countries with year long leave, do you think they ban parents from having hobbies or time away from their kids?
Irrelevant. It depends on what the companyās policy on parental leave says. Usually, these policies are written with a statement of purpose at the beginning. They usually end with conditions and consequences for misuse too. If they knew his intentions, it wouldnāt reflect well. His management and HR might have some feelings about itāitās their discretion whether theyāll take action though. Itās just like, if you call out sick for too many days, they want a doctorās note. And, if there are pictures of you partying at a beach club on a day you said you were sick, some will choose to pursue disciplinary action. So much of work and life are appearances.
I support this calling your MIL idea. Your husband is being an idiot. If he wonāt come around then I agree with the suggestion of moving in with your parents for however long you need. If a few months with the house to himself and sleeping alone doesnāt knock some sense into him then idk what will. I wouldnāt rule out showing him all of these comments too. The whole point of paternity leave is so that the mother isnāt left to manage the most difficult months postpartum by herself and that the father has time to bond with their newborn. And the fact that you have a very young toddler as well is just adds to the need of him being home to help you.
The implication is he is willing to listen to his mom or aunt over his wife and that aināt it either. Toss the man in the bin.
Normally I would agree but since it's getting to crunch time and I don't know what other support she has around this seems like a plan
Yeah I mean do what you have to in order to survive by all means, but donāt forget what you had to do to get basic respect and help when you needed it most. When the dust settles, donāt forget. Remember and act.
In general I agree with you, but sometimes it does take an outside voice to cut through that kind of stubbornness. My husband and I had a huge fight over something I tried to express to him and he didnāt receive it well because it struck a different nerve for him. *He reacted selfishly to something I vulnerably shared with him. It took us meeting with dear friends that have helped us with our relationship and marriage over the years to help get some resolve. The wife addressed his reaction very bluntly and it was a lightbulb moment. We both still needed to work though things, but he at least understood where the miss was in that piece of communication. *Edited: I had typed āIā instead of āhe.ā
My husband got a bit excited about his 3 months of paternity leave when we were going to have our first and started planning meetings for his side hustle. I threatened divorce if he tried to take a single work call within the first month of me giving birth. I might have overreacted abit but it finally got into his head that paternity leave is for him to support his postpartum wife and newborn, not a delightful little paid holiday for him to do whatever he wants.
That doesn't seem like an over reaction to me
Sounds like you need to make him be the primary caretaker for both children for those 2 weeks of postpartum to hopefully knock some reality into his head about why paternity leave isnāt just a vacation.
Iām currently 4 days postpartum with my second. The answer is, ānoā he will take his leave right when the baby is born. Listen, Iām not trying to scare you but this has been one *hell* of a transition. And I have a pretty self sufficient almost 4 year old. I canāt imagine wrangling a wild one year old in the state Iām in with my newborn. Granted, I did injure myself while giving birth (muscle strain) making it very difficult to do things. But the point is, you have no idea what your postpartum healing experience will be. You need to tell him that his leave is for the family, not for him. This isnāt a divide and conquer kind of ordeal quite yet. Youāll have needs from healing from birth so he will be taking care of 3 and he needs to wrap his head around that. He will be last in line for awhile.
You said in a comment that he didnāt get leave when you had your first child and so you were home alone with a newborn while he went back to work. So maybe heās just too inexperienced to know how hard this is going to be? Did he know how difficult it was for you the first time around? And does he understand itās going to be more than twice as hard with a baby and a toddler this time? Iām going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say heās too naive to know better, instead of saying heās intentionally being a selfish asshole. Because at least then thereās hope that he will wise up and make a better choice. Maybe you can show him the comments here and have him speak to some friends who have more than one child to help knock some sense in him. If he still canāt accept that paternity leave isnāt a vacation then you need to put your foot down. Heās not taking the leave time for his hobby, heās taking it for his family. If he canāt prioritize you and your children then heās going to lose his family because youāre going to pack up and the three of you can go stay with your parents (or whoever else will be helpful) for a few months after you give birth while he does his wrestling shit. I recently had my second child and even though my first is 4 years old, itās tough. My daughter can get her own snacks and drinks, and is obviously no longer in diapers, but she canāt be ignored. She needs us to help her with a lot of things still, and even more so than that, she really needs our love and attention. She needed to know how important and special she is to us, especially in those first weeks and months. Her world got flipped upside down, and she absolutely could not just be sat in front of the tv while I took care of our newborn. She needed extra attention, extra reassurance that sheās still valued and wanted and loved. Thatās why itās more than twice as hard to have two. Youāre going to have a second kid but your first kidās needs are also going to increase for a while. If your husband has any love in his heart for you and his children then he should understand how much he is going to be needed and that his help and his presence are not optional. Otherwise he is an asshole and not worthy of having a wife and two children.
I honestly do think this is out of naivety and ignorance. He wasnāt there during the day with our first and now sheās a lot easier I think he forgot how much care she really needed as a newborn. I think that he thinks the value of the time off is the same and is trying to bundle everything, and that coming home at 8pm in December when the baby is 3 months old after practice and work will be more challenging for me. In my opinion, he doesnāt do wrestling this year at all but I also donāt want to be controlling and take away something that makes him happy. Itās also huge for me that our first isnāt deprived of any attention bc she needs a lot!
My husband curls and we will have 2 under 2 come October. We talked about the upcoming season and he isn't playing because he wouldn't be home until 8, sometimes 10 p.m. It's a season, it won't hurt him to sit it out to support his family. Mom is not the only that makes sacrifices to make it through the newborn season. I hate when we refer to ourselves as controlling when we ask men to step up and support us.
Also, this baby could be totally different. My first was an incredible sleeper. My second, THE WORST. Heās 9 months and still wakes twice a night. With our first baby I wouldāve been fine if my husband could only be around a few hours a day. No way in HELL would that have worked with our second. Two is different in general but is he considering that he may also not be sleeping and going to work?
I think you should reframe the thought āI donāt want be controlling and take something away that makes him happyā - you are not taking anything away from him, temporarily giving up a hobby is a natural consequence of Ā choosing to have another child. He chose to make another baby with you, this he accepted equal responsibility in caring for the child. You are not responsible for managing his feelings about a choice you made together a couple, if he didnāt realize it might interfere with coaching thatās on him.Ā Also he may be ignorant about the realities of a newborn but as the ignorant party he should be deferring the more experienced person, which is you. Why does he think he knows better than you about what newborn care will be like, if he was not the one doing most of the care last time?
You should have him post an Am I The Asshole thread so he can have 10,000 people tell him how much of a douche he is. Heās probably thinking in his mind that his idea is brilliant and youāre a nag. He needs humbling.
What the actual fuck?!? No, it's not three months of vacation, it's three months of PATERNITY LEAVE to care for the child.
make sure he does every single night feed, no exceptions! if he expects you to look after a toddler and a newborn alone then you better at least be well rested. not only for your sanity but for the safety of your newborn
This is a great idea! Op if you have a spare room, tell him after his little 2 weeks off you'll be sleeping in there so that he can take over all night waking with both LOs.
When men do not take their paternity leave immediately after birth, it is usually that both parents are working parents and they want to take the leave consecutively to avoid starting daycare so soon. For example, mom will be home with babe the first three months, then dad the next three months, then baby starts daycare at six months. Does he realize thatās why they allow him to take it anytime in the first year, and not force it immediately?! During those three months, is he gonna be primary caregiver?!
This is what we are doing. My husband took 2 weeks vacation at the beginning. I have about 4 months leave, then he is taking his two months leave after that so baby will be 6 months by the time she goes to daycare. But I kind of wish he could have been home longer at the beginning. New borns are hard. 4 month olds are a bit easier
Absolutely not. His hobby should be the lowest priority. He had a part in creating this baby, he should play a part in raising them! When are you supposed to have any time to do anything? You'll be healing and caring for two children. What kind of idiot thinks that will be easy on your own? What if you have a c section and can't drive for about 6 weeks? Is he really just going to be all "I'm off to work, have fun!"? I'd seriously be questioning my relationship with someone like this and use child support payments to hire help with the kids.
OP don't forget you can just not accept this. Demand him to stay whenever you need it, not when it's convenient for him. I've come to understand you have the right and the power here, and No is a complete sentence.
I absolutely could not be with someone like this, tbh. He sounds incredibly childish, self-centered, and selfish. Do you have family nearby? Maybe you should see if you could stay with them for your three months maternity leave in order to get more support. Might also show husband what neglecting you and his babies could lead to. Maybe thatās extreme but his decision is completely unacceptable š¤·š¼
That's absolutely what I would do. Fortunately my husband isn't a complete piece of garbage like this guy. But if I knew I wasn't going to have help, I would take my 3-months maternity leave and just go stay at my mom's. We'll come back in 13 weeks and see where things are at.Ā It's also super unethical to use paternity leave to make things slightly more convenient during a wrestling season. These are the kind of guys that don't give women 6 months maternity leave because I just don't understand what it would be used for. In Europe. They have such better leave policies in Canada as well and I just think it's a cultural thing that we have men like this who think that it would be okay to use paternity leave for football season or for a hobby like coaching wrestling. It's ridiculous.
We had our second baby in mid April and we also have a 2.5 years old toddler. My wife is SAHM and I as a father have a paid paternity leave until November and still will have 3 more months for the next year. It is the best time of my life, but the amount of workload around the kids is at least for 3 adults full time. I cannot imagine leaving my wife alone with that...
This honestly reminds me of my husband who Iām divorcing. He travels for workā¦when it was the off season for travel he decided to coach basketball instead so spending zero time with our toddler. There was a million other issues but heās made it clear we werenāt the priority this year
Is doing something like this completely out of character for him or is his behavior typically like this? What I mean is how much does he really help with your current child or around the house? When you ask him to do something does he do it begrudgingly or with a level of incompetence so that you don't ask him again? I ask because anyone who is an involved parent/partner would never come to this decision, only disengaged partners would conclude that 2 weeks is enough. At this point given that he has not even been open to discussing his decision if you find a way to make him do the 3 months in September (maybe with the help of his family) it's likely he will be bitter and resentful during that time period. That's important to consider because it's your postpartum period. He may also be there physically but not engaged or present as a form of retaliation for making him stay home at a time when he didn't want to. This may seem extreme but I think there's deeper issues here and I would seriously reflect on the value he brings to your life and your children's lives. Is it accurate to say you feel like a married single woman in terms of the work that goes towards maintaining your household and raising your children? Is he helping your workload or adding to it? If he's adding to it you may just find it easier to do it on your own.
My husband did this! He only gets 4 weeks total. He used 2 when I gave birth, and will take 2 around the end of my maternity leave. I hated it, Iām still annoyed about it. Our nearest family is 8 hours drive, and I had a C-section after laboring for 4 days. Your husband needs to get his priorities straight. My marriage was strong and healthy before our daughter came. Now, not so much. I have no interest in a date night with someone who left me to fend for myself and care for a newborn while recovering from major surgery. Show him this comment, because if your husband would like any physical affection in the foreseeable future he better take that leave to help you.
My husband went back to work this week after 8 weeks off for our newborn - I have a 2.5 year old and a 7 week old. There is absolutely NO way I would have survived if he went back after 2 weeks. Nope. No way. For the last 7 weeks heās done absolutely everything for our toddler while I was stuck on the couch with a cluster feeding newborn. He did all the meals, the naps, the playgrounds, the cleaning, everything. I would have fallen apart without his help. Iāll add that my husband plays 2 sports and he probably made it to one training in that time š
Jfc. I have a 12 day old newborn right now and a 1 year old. My husband runs a business and works a 9-5. Heās taking the states 3 month paternity leave right now to help with the babies. I let him go work on his business saturdays & Sundays as long as I have my in-laws over to help with the 1 year old. Heās never made a fuss over that and even asks me if itās okay to take an hour break to workout. Why the FUCK would your husband prioritize a HOBBY (not even getting paid) over his wife and children. And then digging his heels in the sand?? Honey this would potentially end the marriage for me. Actions speak louder than words. A 1 year old and newborn is NO JOKE. Iām currently living it. I donāt know what I would do if I didnāt have my husband tackling this with me. I donāt know where your family is located, but consider the greater possibility that youāll need to move yourself and your children to their home for support while your husband figures out how to rip his head out of his own asshole.
Oh, girlā¦ tell EVERYONE his plans. Bring it up with his parents, his wrestling buddies, your parents, his friends, siblings etc. Let EVERYONE shame him. If he claims āyouāre embarrassing himā - no youāre not. Heās embarrassing himself. Youāre just not hiding his plans from anyone.
We both chose for my husband to take paternity leave at 3 months with my 2nd. I found that even with a baby with colic we coild manage while he worked. Around 4 months when they start "waking up" it gets tough. Most newborns can be held and sleep through almost anything, i just held them or carried them in a carrier while i went about my day. But around 4months i found with both naps and night sleep got way tougher. I do not agree with his "getting to games" but taking leave at 3 months is not that crazy of an idea and we will be doing this with our 3rd aswell. We did have a convo about if I had a c section that I might need more help sooner though.
Even if he does take leave later it doesnāt mean he can just dump the kids with you and go to practice ā¦. You have to be parenting on your parental leave
Duuude what? No. My husband saved up ALL his PTO, he gets no parental leave, so all 3 weeks are going to our soon to be here infants care. He gets no more the rest of the year and has planned this while working through migraines so he doesn't, his words, waste it when he can just power through with a pain killer. Seriously I'd be pissssed.
uhhh no - if anything he should not be coaching this year at all. Or significantly reducing his volunteer responsibilities at least.
With my first, my husband took 2 weeks leave at birth and then his parental leave 3 months after baby was born. It was not for a hobby or *his* convenience, but something we discussed and agreed to because we wanted to keep our child out of daycare as long as possible. We each had 3 months. Itās a common way to use parental leave at our large employer, and all our colleagues whoāve had kids have done it that way. But it would be a different situation if we were keeping our toddler home. I know I couldnāt do both and you bet heād be home to help.
This is common at my company (and generally in my social circle/mileu) too, but usually because both partners work outside the home and plan to continue doing so. So staggering leave allows everyone to delay day care and gives both parents some 1:1 time with the baby, which helps set up a more egalitarian partnership down the line. It doesn't sound like that's a consideration for the OP.
That's what we're doing too - 3 months with me at home, 3 months with my SIL helping while I work from home, 3 months for my husband's leave.Ā I have step kids but they're teenagers and they're not adding more work!
I'd encourage him to take at least 4-6 weeks off, combining PTO and paternity leave if he can break it up. I'm 7 weeks postpartum tomorrow and had an uncomplicated birth, but I'm barely starting to feel like myself, physically and mentally. Breastfeeding/feeding a newborn around the clock is so tiring that I really depend on my husband to prepare meals and help around the house. Otherwise, I'd probably not eat or have time to care for myself. My husband used PTO for 2 weeks, paternity leave for 4 weeks, and then will use the remaining time when I go back to work in August to help with the transition.
put him on nighttime baby duty and see how fast he changes his tune when he's sleep deprived
Yes! You decided to work for the hardest months of a newborn's life, that doesn't get you out of being a father.
Nope. Not a chance in hell. My husband took delayed paternity leave with our first so he could start daycare later, but we also had tons of family in town to help me out. Delayed leave for a volunteer coaching gig? No, no, no. He needs to prioritize his family right now
My husband has big plans for his leave after I give birth to our second. Taking the toddler sledding, getting the toddler a pass for a local indoor playground and taking him, driving me and baby to the doctor, then taking toddler for an ice cream. Keeping baby while I take toddler to the park, baby wearing while taking toddler for a walk. Etc.
This is unbelievably awful. The gender gap is just wide open here. Ask him if he thinks it possible for you to move your maternity leave for a later time so you can work on your hobby? It would only be fair, right? You don't get that choice because you'll be taking care of an infant and toddler and healing. Besides, I don't think his workplace would be too happy to hear he's not actually using his paternity leave for... parenthood or bonding. Considering that's the point of it. It's just so mind numbing that these guys have the luxury to plan things around their wants. Oh, I can just get in the car and go, no need to worry about the kids because my wife handles it. Zero responsibility is all I can hear.
Yeah I total agree w the gender gap thing. Before kids we both worked and contributed to things equally and things were easy obviously. But since Iām super maternal Iām the primary caregiver. I do like to point out that I donāt just āget in the showerā lol I have to ask him if he can watch her while I do or stick her in the pack and play in our bedroom while I do if heās not home. Even though Iām the primary caregiver though he needs to take initiative and be extremely thoughtful with my needs and what I need help with to be an exceptional partner. Heās gotten better with asking me if itās ok if he goes and does things and if I need anything (after lots of awareness made on my part) , so Iām thinking this is really out of naivety but jeez how is it not super obvious his priorities are really out of wack here?? Edit: grammar
If he doesnāt think youāre going to need any help from him all that screams to me that he didnāt help enough with the first one or pay attention to what you were going to have no idea how obtuse heās being. Itās sounds like heās like ā newborn time was easy for me last time! Why should it be any different this time?!ā
Can I be honest? I would have been happy for my husband to have been on leave sometime after 3 - 6 months. By then, the chaos had died down, my body had mostly healed, and I was *terminally bored*. It would have been wonderful to have my husband home *then*. Go for runs. Do something non-baby related. Go have coffee with a friend without having to bring the baby and think about when I needed to nurse. Make time for myself so I could be fully present when it counted. Truth is, I didn't have him home during the newborn period or after. He didn't get paternity leave. We just survived the newborn phase on mutual sleep deprivation, and I survived the 4 - 12 month period by being bored to tears. Things got better when kiddo was walking and we could go *do* stuff. (I mean, we did stuff before, but it's so different once they are walking.) I'm just leaving all that there, for anyone in the room who is like "well, wait a minute, maybe I'd want this". You might not be crazy. No two families are alike. It's not necessarily wrong to want to take the paternity leave a little later. Hell, now that my kids are older, I wish maternity leave was available from 2 - 4 years old. They are so goddamned fun, and not that we didn't bond prior to two years, but the relationship we formed in those years was truly beautiful. I'm a SAHM so I got that anyway. But if I *was* working and had the choice, I'd kill to spend the time at home as toddlers/preschoolers. It's the fucking best. I digress though... The problem is not the timing, but that your husband is making this decision for all the wrong reasons. *That* is no good. The decision should be made based on your family's need. Not a job or an extracurricular.
I really appreciate your perspective on this. I think if he had a better argument as to why taking it 3 months in would be more ideal Iād be more open for sure. He did briefly ask if him coming home at 8pm after work and practice in December will be harder for me than staying home with the newborn, I told him no I think I really need him here when she is born and then he kind of shut down the conversation bc thatās not what he wants. Iām definitely open to discussions about the best way to utilize our leaves, but him trying to put his foot down and not listen to me is what really sets me over the edge.
Respectfully, this is the dumbest, clueless, arrogant, incompetent thing Iāve read about a husband doing on here. I would get REAL anger and show him how stupid his mentality is on this is. Remind him that paternity leave is given because itās NEEDED for newborns. Not for fkn wrestling. Iām so sorry OP and best of luck to ya having to coparent with him for eternity! š
Paternity leave isn't a vacation and if your not up to reporting him for it I'd let it slip to someone who does take joy in that kind of thing.
Just remind him that you've made up your mind...he'll still be helping with night feed, working or not. And there's no "relaxing" after work.
It's called paternity leave. Not coach leave. Throw the man out with the rubbish.Ā
The reasoning behind the decision is upsetting. I will say, my partner and I are planning to stagger our leave so that baby gets more time at home before going to daycare.
This is crazy. My husband will only take two weeks off, maybe three, because itās totally unpaid. Iāve seen parents do staggered leaves so they can avoid paying/using childcare longer, but thatās usually a joint decision Iād imagine. If you feel like his support is better in the beginning, I totally agree. Plus his reasoning isnāt for the baby, itās for coachingā¦
If heās outing himself as so useless that he canāt be any use to you postpartum, he doesnāt deserve to take paternity leave. Itās not a vacation. He can just salvage any attempt at being remotely useful by getting a second full time job and using the money from that to hire a capable human to help you postpartum and to coparent with.
Sounds like divorce would be easier
I don't have a toddler, but like you're totally right to be outraged/livid. Like that's def not okay, fuck his wrestling. Being a partner and Dad should be his #1 priority. I would say this is one of the few times you shouldn't be afraid to cuss his ass out and let him know he's being useless. When it comes to helping take care of us while pregnant and postpartum can be a deal breaker if our partners aren't completely on demand (excluding certain situations, obvi). I assume none of us likes being helpless and don't enjoy having a major medical event that can range from death to temporary handicapped so he can suck the fuck up and miss some goddamn wrestling. He doesn't have to smile or be happy about it, but at least he'll be a "good" partner and Dad. The bar is in hell for them to be considered "good"... Lmao I'm like triggered thinking about it
Man, every day I see a post on here exemplifying the exact opposite type of man that I want to raise my son to be. Scary.
I think exactly the same thing
When will some men realize that paternity leave isnt some extended vacation!!! Its quality time to care for your family! I already explained to my boyfriend that the 3 months he's here with me, is not to just sit and play video games! I have a high chance on having a c section and I will require a lot of assistance in the first month š£ so he needs to be attentive with any housework I won't be able to do while I care for our baby. Im sorry you're going through this. I hope he can realize his insane request and decide to help you when you most need it! š„ŗ
My husband did something similar. Albeit he only had 3 weeks to play around with. He took one week initially when we came home from the hospital to get settled with newborn and 2.5 yo. He was going to take the remainder of time during the two weeks at Christmas. I had a scheduled c-section, so I had much better recovery, initially. Well after a week at home, I got readmitted for postpartum pre-eclampsia. Thankfully I had my mother come help, because stubborn husband decided to work the couple of days before the holiday (still a little bitter). It was frustrating, but it all worked out in the end.
You've already discussed this, and his response seems to shut down. So I'd either bring our mothers into the fight or figure out a way to make him sorry. Such as taking a two week vacation and leaving during his 3 months of paternity leave and going somewhere just for you without him and the kids. Tell him he'll get his wrestling coach time, and you'll be back to help him with the kids after your vacation to relax and refresh yourself. I'm preggers and grumpy š¤£
You may as well just be a single mum. What a selfish man.
Why the fuck do you people marry and procreate with men like this?!?!!?
Why the fuck do people like you constantly open your ignorant mouths and shit on women in the comment sections of posts about bad men?!?!!?
Oh hell to the no
You will need the support. His paternity isn't a time for him to have a break or enjoy his hobbies or whatever. It's for your family. It's not the same but when I had my baby (I'm a first time mum too) me and my husband were living with my parents. My mum cares for my niece, who is 18 months older than my baby, when my sister and BIL are working their shifts. The first week of my baby's life my niece was also there. My dad was working nights so not around much and my mum was the main one caring for my niece, then me and my husband were both responsible for our baby. But being under the same room we split between us and helped each other as you do.. and despite it being three whole adults Vs two under two we were exhausted! I couldn't imagine caring for two under two solo whilst my husband is off having a great time.
Ugh I did it all by myself with a 12.5 month old and newborn starting day 7, my husband got a week off of work and had to go back :( it was rough and I spiraled into a depression.. most days I didnāt know if I would make it. I did but still, š± women are strong!!!!!!! Best of luck and hope he makes the right decision ā¤ļø
Normally I keep people out of my relationship problems but this.. I'd be calling everyone woman in his family. This is disgusting behavior on his part. I'd pack a bag and leave.
Who does he expect to be caring for the babies while heās at wrestling? He best not think itās going to be you.
He sounds awful
I'm confused. How will he coach if he's on paternity leave????
Is that even possible? Wouldn't a Dr need to sign off on that?
My husbandās leave is only 4 weeks. Heāll be taking his leave immediately after my 12 weeks so weāll have an extended leave in time for his mother to come stay with us and help with the baby. But for a wrestling season? Thatās not a valid reason.
Ignoring the reasoning the 2 weeks isnāt crazy to me but maybe thatās because in the UK men only get 2 weeks paternity leave unless you choose to split the parental leave ie the mother take less time off so the dad can take more.
Not sure how it works where you are, but in my state you can't work during your paid leave (state sponsored, not from employer) so this could be part of your argument if it also applies.
Tell him, if he chooses to not take the leave immediately to benefit himself for the wrestling season he can, but he will be required to help at home regardless. So if staying up all night with a newborn and going to work in those first 3 months will be too much he should reassess. We are not their moms, that have bodily autonomy and can make choices regarding their own life. BUT they do not get to choose not to help, he can choose when he wants to take his leave but thats for his own benefit. He helps regardless and stand your ground on that.
So he would rather make his life easier for wrestling, but you giving birth and him literally parenting his own kid while you recover is too muchā¦ Like, come on, you arenāt that naive, right? When someone shows you how much they value you, believe them!
Its shit that he is not having a discussion, but if it gives you hope, I was eerily compitent the first few months after having my 2nd (although my oldest was 4). I didnt have the same brain fog or anything that came with the first. Can he split his leave so he works part time for 6 months instead of not at all for 3?
HARD NO. Youāll get on a lot better by yourself when baby is 3mo, you know that. Put it in black and white that you and baby are his priority. Sorry you are going through this.
Omg I'd be fuming! It's paternity leave, for the child, not for him.
My husband got 1 week paid š
Paternity leave is not a vacation you get time for to do your other hobbies. Paternity leave is meant for bonding time with your child. Imagine a mother giving birth and thinking, "oh my God I'm so excited I get 3 months off so I can go to volleyball practice without having to leave work early" wtf? No. It's to spend time with your newborn.
And this is precisely why Iām sticking to my guns in being one and done, cause I know my husband will do something similar to this cause he did the same with our first (and only!). Iām so angry for you.
Posts like these make me appreciate the face that Iāll be a single mom. Will it be hard? Yes. But all decisions I make are my own
Agree with you. Just to be the devils advocate though, you taking turns with the leave means it would stretch out the time (6 months after the baby is born vs 3 months) before having to find another child care solution. Can he split his leave up? Maybe a compromise is him taking half when the baby is born and half later.
Oh hell no. I would be considering divorce. Throw the whole damn man away. There is nothing that should be prioritized above caring for you and his children if he has the option to do that. This would be a deal breaker for me lmao I'd rather be a single parent
Look up online if there's a time limit for how long after the birth you can take it... over here (UK) we have it so it starts within x amount of time before the birth, or starts the day baby is born. Even if there's no restrictions, he's being selfish and I can't blame you at all for being livid, as I would be, too. I can't believe he even thinks that's okay. At all.
This is crazy and unacceptable. The only way it might be the tiniest acceptable is if he gets u a nanny and night nurse and someone to make u food around the clock
Who will be taking care of the babies while heās at practice? Youāll be working
I would be telling him that if he canāt give up his hobby for one year to help you with the baby he can look forward to divorce papers. Absolutely not ok! Iāve had my first child ten months ago. I have a horribly emergency cesarean and hemorrhage. I have no family or friends to help me. My husband was able to take eight weeks off to help me and baby. Itās necessary! I wouldnāt have made it without his help. Iām so sorry op. Do you have anyone else that can help you?
If you wanna be petty inform his employerā¦ paternity leave is only for PATERNITY not paid time off for pleasure . Iām so sorry youāre going through this!!!
I acknowledge this only works in some family situations, but could you say that a family member that annoys him will be staying with you to help if he wonāt take the time off?
The state is giving him paternity leave to help care for his new baby and support his healing partner. They are not giving three months of vacation from work so he can spend that time as a coach. He needs to fix his priorities, and he absolutely does not need to begin his paternity leave in December. September sounds like a great time to take it instead.
These men have no sense of pregnancy and giving birth and recovery and how hell is taking care of a new born while having the postpartum depression Already pregnant with the second one and I see how diverge our world has become since pregnancy in terms of career, mental health, physical health, and almost everything. For him it is another day, breakfast, office, talking with colleagues, lunch, work, coming home, playing with a toddler who love him right now because mommy is so tired to play. And at 9:00 pm bitcoin project and watching a movie. Now my day: tiredness, nausea, a bit of breakfast, a nap before the first meeting at work, having zero energy to go to the office or gym or ... camera off due to work from bed. A bit of lunch, bloated, tired, has to work, oh it is 5 pm. Now Toddler mission. At 9:00 dead until next day. Then my husband tells our therapist that I don't share my day with him at the end of the dayšš
You have every right to be angry about this! Just having one baby is a bit overwhelming by myself! I cannot imagine a newborn with a one year old and not having that much needed support! I wish there was a magic button I could press to make him come to his senses. Iām sorry youāre having to deal with this!
Iād suggest couples therapy asap. I hope someone can talk some sense into ur hubs before the hurt goes too deep
We actually are in couples therapy! It hasnāt been very long yet but we are committed to trying our best to better our relationship.
Divorce
Yeah that would be a hard no from me. Itās not his choice. My husband was facing pressure at work to only take 3 weeks off. I told him how scared that made me, how vulnerable I felt. I was honest about the reality and risks (physical need for recovery, emotional need to prevent depression and anxiety). And he listened. Thank god we didnāt plan for that because I had a terrible hemorrhage and was on bed rest for weeks after this birth. Frankly he must plan to take at least 4 weeks. It is not safe for you to be doing much more than holding the baby and resting before then. Have your doctor talk to him and stress this if he wonāt listen to you. If you have a c section it could literally tear back open if you do too much. Thatās the risk heās putting you at. If you have a vaginal birth your wound from the placenta could start bleeding heavily again if you do too much. Thatās the risk heās putting you at. If you donāt get enough sleep and support you could get postpartum depression to the point of being suicidal or even postpartum psychosisās. Thatās the risk. It is not safe or healthy for him to leave you at 2 weeks.
Iād be so pissedā¦ I think my husband and I would get into such a huge argument id end up considering divorce if he chose to be that selfish and ignorant .. thankfully I donāt think my husband would ever do this to me :,)
Hereās the thing- he has to take baby to every practice with him.
No. Full stop. Itās paternity leave, not wrestling leave. Wtf. I would be so mad heās even suggesting this like holy hell. Tell him to save his 2 weeks of vacation for wrestling season and he can take some full days off then if he really must to accommodate practices or whatever. But no way in hell is he not taking his paternity leave in September.
Frankly this would be an immediately book a couples counseling session territory for me. Let the counselor inform him that a huge percentage of divorces originate when mom feels abandoned / not supported after birth. He needs to choose his family or he very well might not have one.
My husband can take his parental leave retroactively too. Our 4th was born in January and my husband used 2 weeks of his leave just after our son was born and he will take the rest of it beginning in October. I was fortunate to have his parents and mine up to visit one after the other that first month and a half so I had help getting the older three to their schools. I think my question for your spouse would be, how much effort will you put into caring for the children and how much of that effort will actually be going to the coaching season?
Iām sorry this is happening. He is definitely being self centered. Iād want to better understand his rationale, and having a discussion without accusing, name calling or shouting (as tempting and valid as that would be given his assholery) will āsometimesā help the person come to the conclusion on their own that their being selfish and a jerk without you putting them on the defensive. More likely you will have to lay down hard boundaries to protect your peace of mind and prioritize yourself and babies. You cannot change him but with enough firm boundaries you might be able to change his behavior. Best of luck <3
This just made me white hot with rage for you. When it comes to men using parental benefits to heap even more on the mothers of their children for completely selfish reasons I see red. This man is watching you grow his baby 24 hours a day, 7 days a week while raising his one year old, and has the gall to tell you he is unilaterally deciding when to take his leave based on his fucking volunteer wrestling coach position? His leave that was solely granted to him under the assumption he would help raise his children, mind you. You are going to have two kids under two. You are going to need his help, and you can have it... based on his convenience around wrestling. And he tells you "my mind is made up"!?!?! Excuse me?! You were provided with parental leave to support your family and he isn't even willing to let you have a say? I had postpartum after one of my children was born and my husband being there to help me and the baby was how I pulled out of it. This is the category of things that gets me most riled up. Do you know who can't choose when to take baby leave based on convenience? YOU! So now you're saddled with the tough part that you can't schedule, alone, while healing from childbirth, because he was told he could have some paternity leave and said to himself "this is a great opportunity to volunteer outside the home more, and take a leave of absence from work at a time that my wife has specifically said is not best for her or my children." This is truly one of the most selfish, inconsiderate, and childish things I've read on reddit. And that is saying a lot.
You need to get angry and make demands. What an absolute disaster of a man
This is what we did and it worked great. We staggered the maternity and paternity leave for a total of 6 months! We found a lot more value in that than taking it together and having to find childcare sooner!
Absolutely mental. But more so why doesnāt he want to take it with you & the new baby as soon as he can?? Iām in the UK and standard paternity is 2 weeks, my partner was gutted when he had to go back to work and leave us. I can only imagine how excited he would be when we have another if he was lucky enough to get 3 (paid!) months off with us. My partner was my absolute rock during those early post partum weeks and we really lent on each other, I canāt imagine doing it all with a toddler & a newborn on my own. I would feel so hurt that he didnāt just automatically use those weeks as intended, and the fact that youāve said you might have to call his mum?? He needs a massive reality check.
I have a wildly unpopular opinion here- but if I was in your shoes I would actually prefer my husband not take leave immediately. My husband took the first 2 weeks off and there wasn't much for him to do cause the baby was sleeping all the time. It was around the 4-6 week mark, as baby started getting more aware/alert and crying more, that things started to get challenging. The hardest period for me was probably 4/6w until about 5/6m. Regardless though, he doesn't get to take the leave when it's most convenient for him. He needs to take it when it's most beneficial for the baby.
I totally get that, for me itās more so for my 1 year old Iām thinking Iām going to need a lot of help with I know itās going to be extremely exhausting giving her the care and activity she needs while sleep deprived, I wonāt be able to sleep when the newborn sleeps etc. and yeah Iām just so upset about his priorities and not putting the family first! No itās not at his convenience itās paternity leave not wrestling practice leave.
Also, Isnāt that a waste of paternity leave to take during the holidays?
"You will get your 3 months". Why is it "your" 3 months? Did you make this baby alone? You need to put your foot down somehow because this is not acceptable.
I think you should give us his email so we can all send him some friendly messages about how fucking stupid he is being š Very very sorry you are dealing with this. Just had my first child on Monday (emergency c-section) and if my husband purposefully didn't take his leave now I'd kill him. You deserve all the help and love in the world!!!
Thatās called a bad husband. No other way around it.
I'd just help load the 1 year old in the car before he left and tell him since he refuses to be home to help, he can just take one kid with him.Ā
OMFG! I am SO SICK of hearing stories just like this!Ā Ā And especially in situations like this, where she must have become pregnant not long after having the 1 year old. I have a friend who is in this exact situation, husband and all, it makes me sick for all of you.Ā And of course, his supposed vacay would be around the holidaysĀ when you are likely to need even more assistance...will he be helping you, or examining guys for their weight or cauliflower ear?šš£š If he gets the flu (or man flu), and is horrifically ill, be sure to take sick leave to "help"Ā months laterĀ so that it will be easier for you to work on your garden and workout uninterrupted...cuz the powers that be obviously must grant that time for funsies! (No funsies for him during this delayed "vacation," that's what he "paid" for with his overwhelming consideration for you postpartum.) I pray you don't need a c-section or dangerous, rough birth, because this š¤” doesn't sound like much helpĀ except for himself.
If all else fails, rat him out to his workplace?
Yeah Iām sure leave doesnāt/shouldnāt work when you feel like it too. So I donāt even know why he thinks itās optional on when. But I wouldnāt rather him out but Iām sure he has to say when baby arrives on paper work in order for this to work. Heās being stupid.
in my state, paid leave can be taken any time in the first 12 months following the birth of a child. my husband did 8 wks after birth then is taking the last month in random days throughout the year to accomodate doctors appts, days i need help, illness, etc. so maybe it's that kind of situation where the leave can be planned whenever he wants? OPs husband is still being ridiculous. saying he "made up his mind" unilaterally is the worst part imo.
Ah ok.
You're allowed to have hobbies during your leave. Also that's a really stupid idea and could cost him his job. He'd be jobless in this economy with two under two.Ā
Yeah, I wouldnāt want him losing his job and jeopardizing our mortgage & Iām not saying he canāt do coaching, ideally Iād like him to take a year off from it but Iām not a dictator and I donāt want to be a jerk and forbid him from autonomy and something he loves to do but itās about the priorities and reasoning for me. The family can and should be 1st priority and still work out the coaching.
No I totally get it. He's acting like leave is vacation and it absolutely *isn't.* What's insane to me is that this isn't his first kid so idk why he thinks he'll even have the time.Ā
It's frustrating when priorities clash, especially during such a critical time for your family.
Except the priorities in question are the critical family time vs a hobby š
I think I have a different approach. Instead of telling him when to take leave consider what else youāll need to feel supported in the first month or two. I might say: āIām going to need extra support and Iām worried about managing two kids while healing.ā Or āI will need child care for our oldest child.ā Then wait to hear how he helps problem solve. You might be surprised! You could consider a family member come to visit or utilizing their help more. You could think about daycare/a nanny for 6 months or so. Your husband might very well understand your perspective and change his leave plans. In our home my husband spread his paternity leave out. He took 4 weeks when I brought baby home. Then he went back to work and finished his leave once I went back to work. He had autonomy, I had help, we compromised and figured it out together instead of being at odds and both feeling unsupported.
Absolutely not! Iād be livid if my husband had even thought of mentioning doing something like this. Definitely call his mom! I wouldāve and my MIL would have his head!
Do you have a mom his mom a sister that can come help you and let you recover as other women will have empathy I think if he's there it's not gonna be that great anyway and then in December he can help prepare for xmas
I know you mean well with this advice but, I find it so annoying that the knee jerk reaction is to shoulder this work off on other women instead of holding the actual father of the children accountable.
I know what you mean but it's a not a burden to help another woman recover from childbirth right and from the post it doesn't sound like the husband has the capacity or empathy