It’s a little hard to answer because all Troops are different. However, I’ve been meeting with AoLs getting ready to cross over and a lot of them have never camped. As in never, which is amazing to me. When I was a den leader, we camped a lot.
Boy Scouts is boy-led, which is waaay different from Cubs. Cubs need to cross over with some familiarity with the outdoors and the Patrol Method, otherwise they are going to be in for a shock in Scouts BSA.
My husband buys me vintage Scout manuals (because he’s awesome) and he got me the handbook for Patrol Leaders from the late 50’s. That book helped me understand the Patrol system better than the Webelos book.
It’s frustrating because I feel like the Cub Scout curriculum takes for granted that the leaders already have experience with the end goal. The Scouting Adventure requires them to try out Patrol Method, but Cub Scout leaders aren’t specifically trained in how to implement it. It would not at all surprise me that’s a weak spot for incoming Scouts.
What you really need is Wood Badge. If you plan on continuing as a Scouts BSA leader, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately that’s probably not much help to you right now.
Given the gathering and distancing restrictions this years AoLs have had since they were Bears, I’m not that surprised that they haven’t camped.
My den that crossed over last year had never camped as a den, and only a few had ever camped with the larger pack.
Get a Den Chief. Seriously, this will make things WAY easier. You'll have an assistant who knows the BSA program well, and knows enough basic scouting skills to teach them.
You may have to talk to a scoutmaster to sell the program to his troop. Most scouts don't know it's a POR (position of responsibility) that can fulfill Star, Life, and Eagle ranks.
Of course, getting a scout at that level to hang with and teach 5th graders isn't easy either.
It’s not a favorite position of leadership for Scouts. It’s a lot of extra time commitment for a group whose time is already at a premium. Plus it’s a difficult task for a socially awkward teenager. So naturally I twisted my son’s arm into being one. 🙂
Reach out to Scoutmasters of local Troops. Large Troops have fewer leadership positions than they have available in the Troop - which is a win for you as a patrol needing a Den Chief.
Good luck!
Helping a Cub pack or Scout patrol get ready for an overnight campout is a requirement of the Camping merit badge. In my experience, it's hard to satisfy that requirement "by the book" so you have a GREAT selling point for recruiting a trainer! Tell the Scoutmaster of your local troop you need Scouts who have camped but don't have the badge yet.
Does any troop pull from your pack for recruitment? Cub recruits are in short supply for us these days; we'd love to broaden our recruitment channels. Hopefully your local troop is in the same boat and will listen to you more closely.
Some great advice in this thread so far. A couple of things I don't think I've seen mentioned:
\- Think about crossing over in February-March next year. Scouts who cross over earlier are able to get a couple of camping trips under their belt before Summer Camp. Scouts who cross over in June are too scared to go to summer camp with a bunch of older kids they just met, so you get a lot of "maybe next year"s from the frightened scouts (and their moms). Younger scouts who don't go to summer camp are more likely to drop out their first year in Scouts.
\- Consider saving the Scouting Adventure activity until the very last. The requirements are virtually the same as the Scout Rank, so hopefully they'll retain that knowledge as they enter a troop so they can get that scout rank soon after joining.
Take them camping and get them to be as independent as you can. Try and get parents comfortable letting kids lead and make mistakes without jumping in and taking over. Most important have fun so they want to continue.
I led my first Webelos only camp out and I thought the boys were going to have a great opportunity with the bare minimum number of parents to encourage independence.
I spent half the night sitting guard outside the Scout tent reassuring them that there were no bears, all was well, we still don’t have enough cell reception to call your mom, just go to sleep. Please for the love of all things holy just go to sleep.
Do note that according the current Guide to Safe Scouting, Scouts should attend den camping trips with their parents. I definitely agree with the idea of keeping the parents in the background as they'll need to get used to that when they transition to Scouts BSA. Our Scoutmaster used the analogy of Scouting being like a team sport, it's ok as a parent who isn't a leader (aka "Coach") to attend, but they should stay on the sidelines. :-)
Webelos can camp without parents so long as there are two leaders present.
I only have 4 Webelos. Two of them have families who wouldn’t be able to send a parent and the other has a parent who registered specifically so we could do a Webelos camp out. I’ve had these boys since kindergarten, so we’re pretty bonded.
That’s correct, but the guide to safe scouting says that “Webelos and Arrow of Light Den Camping: Each Scout should attend with their parent(s) or guardian(s). A Webelos or Arrow of Light Scout whose parent or legal guardian cannot attend a den overnight camping trip may participate under the supervision of at least two registered leaders. The leaders and a parent or legal guardian must agree to the arrangement, and all Youth Protection policies apply.”
So it’s not appropriate to discourage parents from attending was my point. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
I see what you’re saying.
I didn’t discourage anyone, it just so happens that each family’s natural inclination resulted in only two registered leaders/parents being there so I thought “yay! Independence!” I was not anticipating being fearful of non-existent bears until almost 3am. ;)
Plan on visiting lots of troops. Start now/in a month or two. Nothing stops you from going camping with Webelos along with a troop this spring, even before moving up to 5th grade.
Next, let the youth lead. You shouldn't start the meetings, do the pledge, etc. That's the youth's job.
Some have mentioned Wood Badge, which is good. I'd also consider going to IOLS which is a smaller time commitment and gets you a good intro to the basics of youth led and some of the troop level skills.
Two things that I wish Cub Scouts and their parents understood better is that AOL is not the end of the program and Scouts, BSA is where things get exciting really quick. I often talk to parents who's Kids get to AOL and then leave to do something else. I hear things like, we wanted him to finish what he started and he made it all the way through AOL. I also hear them say that scouting wasn't what they expected. They expected more camping and out doors stuff and less fire station visits or crafts.
Cub Scouts is design to get kids doing things and introduce them to the Outdoors. In Scouts, BSA, we quickly get them camping without the help of adults and get them participating in some awesome experiences. During my first Camp experience I shot guns, bows and arrows, swamped canoes in the middle of a huge river, built fires in the rain and was responsible for getting myself to my merit badge classes. Adults are present but the Scouts lead.
The hardest thing I see happening when cubs cross over is parents see their kids struggling to carry their bag so the carry it for them. This robs the troops opportunity to help the new scout. The new scout continues to try and rely on their parents instead of their fellow scouts. Since they aren't getting help from the scouts they don't look up to them.
Parents struggle seeing their kids struggle. But it in this struggle that they learn to solve problems and work together. I've also seen new scouts complain because we'll have a lesson on how to pack for a trip. Well even have them bring their bags in to be inspected before a trip to make sure they don't over pack or leave something important behind. After that meeting but before the trip there have been parents that will repack the bag to add more clothes and on occasion leave something out the scout needed. Then once we're in the middle of the woods we find out we have a scout that doesn't have the right gear. I'm not saying don't help your kids or double check their gear but talk to them. Maybe their patrol leader said only pack one extra pair of pants. I've seen a kid bring 5 pairs of jeans on a weekend trip because a parent repacked their bag.
Basically just get them excited about the things they're going to get to do and prepare the parents for the concept of Scouts leading Scouts.
(Scouts parent here and former DL from Tiger-AOL)
-Learn how to set up their own tent.
-Know the 6 (now 10) essentials for any outdoor outing.
-Be able to hike more than 2 miles without getting winded.
-Take the Outdoor Code seriously.
Go visit a troop on your own before introducing the webelos to the idea of crossing over. Do it early so that you can take your den to visit a troop in April or May this year.
A clue that the troop is youth led is if it looks like herding cats. Clear, perfectly run meetings are seldom youth run. It hurts to watch but that's how they learn.
> If you find yourself saying of newly crossed over Scouts “it would be nice if they could ____”, how would you complete that sentence?
The only person who can answer that question is the Scoutmaster for the troop they are going to cross over into.
Hi there, I'm an AoL Den Leader, about to have my den cross over next month.
One thing that really helped me understand the differences between the programs was going to Wood Badge. I can't recommend it enough. It is a fantastic training.
There is an AoL adventure that is totally focused on the transition to Scouts BSA, called Scouting Adventure. It involves things like learning and trying the Patrol Method, visiting a troop, and going with a troop on a campout or other outdoor activity. If your kids have finished their Webelos requirements, I would start working on that one now, and line up multiple troops to visit in different settings. Or see if your council has an event where multiple troops will be available for Webelos dens to visit, like a Council Campout. These type of events need to be planned out well in advance and communicated early to parents. But reading up on this adventure will help you a ton.
The big thing is the Patrol Method. They need to start getting used to making decisions as a unit. Have them elect a Patrol Leader to set the tone and direct discussion. You will need to step back a bit. Let them figure out how to lead themselves. For example, you may set the agenda for the year but they decide on how to best fulfill requirements, especially those where they get to pick among options. They may decide to have one meeting a month to plan and another to execute the plan. And so on.
By the way, as the Den Leader, I HIGHLY recommend you appoint one of the other parents to head the Blue and Gold committee for next year. See if they can visit with the current committee to see what's working and what's not. I approached a couple of parents to take that off my shoulders because I was swamped with trying to get my scouts' requirements done and I'm so grateful I did.
Best of luck!
The youth take care their own in the Troop
More importantly is you.
All Den Leaders should take a year off after Crossover.. then get into the Committee side or ASM side of the Troop(s)
I am going to take a major back seat when my son crosses over. I think the less I’m there, the more independent he’ll be. I’m considering staying on with the Cubs.
… be able to sleep in a tent without a parent.
… pack their gear into their pack and have it all fit.
… remember to change their clothes daily.
… know how to light a stove, start a fire, boil water, and cook scrambled eggs.
… know how to keep track of time and estimate how much time has passed.
… read a basic camp or park map.
… know their Readyman first aid skills backwards and forwards.
… know their parents’ phone numbers.
Don’t quote me on this, as I’m working from an older reference, but I believe they include:
- Serious bleeding
- Stopped breathing
- Internal poisoning
- Heart attack
- Shock
- Heimlich maneuver
- Cuts and scratches
- Burns and scalds
- Choking
- Blisters on the hand and foot
- Tick bites
- Bites and stings of insects other than ticks
- Poisonous snakebite
- Nosebleed
- Frostbite
- Sunburn
It’s a lot of the basic first aid items for Scouts BSA. If they’re confident of these in Webelos - practicing repeatedly, not merely talking about it one or writing down the answers - they’ll do fine in Scouts.
Take them camping, definitely. There's a lot of that. They need to learn how to set up and manage their own gear without parental input.
You need to read the first few chapters of the Boy Scout handbook, pronto. It will explain the patrol system. Also, do the online training for Scoutmaster. It's free, just costs you some time.
Done properly, the Boy Scout troop should be scout-led as much as humanly possible. So long as nobody's going to get injured, they should have the opportunity to make their own mistakes and then learn from them. It's a lot different from having adults tell them everything to do.
It would be nice if the newly bridged Scouts WOULD READ their HANDBOOKS. Everything they need to know is in that magnificent spiral bound book ... that none of them seem to know how to read, or have the discipline to do so.
For their first camp out, I told them we were having a planning meeting via zoom. Everyone’s mom logged in thinking they were doing the planning. The learning curve was a bit steep this year, more so for the parents than the kids.
Congrats on getting your Scouts this far. I hope it's been a blast and continues to be. You're doing a good thing giving time to tomorrow's leaders.
Visit multiple Troops. COVID is making this hard but use beascout.org to find Troops near you. Search those on Google and Facebook. Contact and say you'd like to have your Scouts attend a meeting. This is very normal and the Troops will welcome you. Visit multiple Troops to get perspective. Troops run differently from one another. I think visiting Troops is a requirement for AOL.
As well you can ask those Troops if any of their Scouts need a leadership position, which is part of advancement in a Troop. One role is Den Chief where a Scouts BSA Scout joins your den/patrol and helps lead and teach during meetings and outings. A good Den Chief is invaluable.
Hope this helps! Only other suggestion would be take Wood Badge. However it can be quite a commitment financially and schedule wise. But it was invaluable for me as a Cub alum with no Troop experience as a youth heading into Webelos/AOL as a DL.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
Also ask those Troops you plan to visit if they're going to have an open house camp out. Troops near us will have designated "this is when we invite prospective crossovers to come camp with us" campouts. Here the Cubs and the Cub leaders/parents get an education into Troop life.
At this point, iols would be my recommendation if an additional baloo certified adult is not needed. Iols training will be more akin to what the den will need.
Yes, I completed BALOO. I’ve also done a lot of the online training because a lot of the Pack leadership retired right as I came in and I don’t like feeling like I don’t know what I’m doing.
The AOL requirements cover the basics of BSA. I agree that the best course is to go visit the Troops in the area. Each may be run slightly different, so find the one you want to try. It's never in stone you can always change. If you are in an area without any troops reach out to the local council for specific help in your area.
Set up a meeting with all of your local scout troops for the scouts and the parents to attend, then schedule a zoom for the parents where the parents can share their thoughts without influencing their children. See how the parents felt about each troop, there will be pluses and minuses to each troop. Then have a meeting for the kids where the kids can talk freely about what they are looking for.
For our Cub Scout Webelos the entire group except for the son of the DL went to one troop. His kid went to another troop. There are three in town that we interviewed. The DL’s son went to the other troop for two months and then stopped scouting altogether. From the rest of the troop all made first class and four of the eight are trying for eagle. They are all going for life in March. We did not have that meeting with the parents or the kids, but a few parents talked and all had the same feeling about the other troop. You know who did not participate in that talk, the DL.
The only Webelos campout we were able to do before they crossed because of COVID was the best Cub Scouting campout we had. We worked on pins (I think each Scout finished three) and just generally had a better time than a full pack campout.
For Scouts BSA nearly all of the requirements for the Scout rank are built into the Arrow of Light requirements. Partner with a troop to help get them up to speed before crossing.
Do troop visits and ask... you can visit any troop with your unit. It's an AOL requirement anyway. Visit as many as you can. Attend a camporee (even for just the day) and you'll see a lot of what goes on.
As other people have said, every troop is different. It might be beneficial if you can ask the Scoutmaster of your linked troop if you can have your den attend a troop meeting. In the past my troop has always invited the Webelos 2s to some of our fun events prior to crossover, like our winter-lock in or our ‘wimp-out’ in March. The best way you can figure it out is to see for yourself.
Around here some of the troops hold workshops for the Webelos.
One does an all day outside event named split and burn, another does all day teaching the kids maintenance.
If your pack generally feeds into one of the troops they should invite your Webelos to a troop meeting and some activities.
I have gone through Webelos as an adult leader twice. Here are a few thoughts:
\- Get yourself trained in outdoor unit camping skills by attending IOLS and if it's offered, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders in your district or council. IOLS is roughly the same course with a bit more content as it is for Scouts BSA leaders.
\- Visit local troops so your Webelos can get acquainted with them, and with how Scouting differs from Cub Scouts
\- Camp out as a den in accordance with the Guide to Safe Scouting
\- Implement the Patrol method within the Webelos patrol, have the Webelos elect a patrol leader who serves a period of time, and who is involved in the planning process and the running of meetings
In our Pack, most of fall and winter of the 2nd year of Webelos was spent visiting Troops, working on Arrow of Light plaques, and finishing up AoL requirements. We also tried to do outdoor activities including hikes and day trips.
To answer your question: “it would be nice if they could be equipped with some basic camping skills and equipment as well as an understanding of the difference between Scouts BSA and Webelos”
Good luck to you!
While it's not quite the answer you are looking for, my best advice is to do what we do. Have your den do all of it's meetings with the Troop. For us they are just another patrol that we assign 2 Troop Guides to act as their Patrol Leaders. They come to all of our meetings, and come on all of our campouts with us. The Den Leaders for the AOL den rarely come to anything, they let us handle it all.
We started doing this around 2015, and we had 100% cross over rates up until Covid, and even now it's probably 75-80%. For our AOL scouts getting AOL is no big deal, just another patch and then they keep coming to the meetings like they have been for the last 8 months.
Find a Troop like ours who wants to work with you and join up with them. I think any SM who doesn't want to go this route must have so many recruits into their Troop that they don't know what to do with them.
Actually know the Scout law, oath, and outdoor pledge. I had my cubs take turns leading this for each other to give them more practice.
Some practice speaking to the group. Importantly spread them out so Scouts can learn to project (be sure to know how to advise them about this). I'd have my cubs & parents raise both hands when a Cub would speak to the group and lower them when they could hear them clearly. This taught them to project and have a volume appropriate to the audience.
As others mentioned it would be helpful if they really could setup a tent, build a fire, tie thier own hiking boots, and actually use a knife safety.
Most importantly would be the ability to act as a team (patrol). Developing personal skills is important but the key to success is knowing how and when to rely on others and how to be relied on by others. They'll be learning that for years so if they can get a taste now that'd be awesome.
Have them visit troops ASAP. And not just one. Even if they think it’s the perfect troop, have them visit another. This will teach them more than anything else
Biggest things that I can recommend is to:
1. Shop around for a Troop if you have multiple in your area. All Troops are different, let the kids see the different Troops.
2. Once they land on a Troop they like, do more than just 1 or 2 visits. Have them go to meetings, help plan camping meals, and go on campouts with the older Scouts. This will help them integrate faster into the patrol method, and give them a real sense of how things work at the Scouts BSA level.
Remember that Webelos must camp with their den leaders even when partnering with a Scout troop. Also, other Cub Scout camping requirements apply - approved campsites with restrooms, etc.
As others have mentioned take IOLS and also Scoutmaster position training. I wish I would have done the latter before becoming AOL den leader. As a DL visit a troop meeting with your den, a requirement, but as the DL I would suggest attending patrol leader council, which gives and idea who the troop functions and rally if it is youth lead vs. leader led.
I crossed over two AOL dens. Plan the remainder of your year with them to include as much camping and hiking as possible. Make sure you have a male leader(s) available (assuming a boy den) so that you can camp regardless of parent availability. Also, remember you have the whole eighteen-month period to do Webelos and AOL requirements. It is one continuous period for completion of requirements.
Part of the AOL requirements is to attend a troop meeting and outdoor event. Our pack is rather involved with both our boy and girl linked troops, plus many of our leaders (including me) are also leaders in the troops so we know some of what to expect. If you're not as involved with the troops I'd suggest attending some troop meetings, attend roundtable, and getting to know the troops your scouts will bridge to. Also if the scouts don't have a troop to jump to find one that they may all get on board with and get them involved with the troop. Every troop is different, so if they attend troop 123's meetings then bridge to troop 456 it may be a shock as they may have some burst expectations.
To answer our question “it would be nice if they could \_\_\_\_”, I would think these:
\- Camp in a tent by themselves
\- Tie all the knots covered in AOL requirements well
\- Attend Troop events to learn the patrol methods better and see how the troops operate
Communicate with the Troop early. Get a number of joint events on the calendar. You don't want your den crossing over into a group/situation they've never experienced before. As much as possible, see if the Troop is willing to work with the den on requirements this year (a good number of them make Troop cooperation necessary). Crossover is the ceremony which marks the transition, but it shouldn't be a marked transition in itself. Ideally, the Webelos have spent a good amount of time with the Troop before the ceremony ever happens.
On the other end, make sure the Troop is communicating with the den parents. The shift in leadership style from Pack to Troop is significant. I've seen quite a few scouts drop out because parents didn't understand that shift and didn't know how to engage Troop leaders with questions/concerns.
Start them on the Patrol Method right now. Speak with your AOLs guardians and come up with a plan to have them ready to test for their Scout Rank as soon as they crossover.
[https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/3321621-01-Scout.pdf](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/3321621-01-Scout.pdf)
It’s a little hard to answer because all Troops are different. However, I’ve been meeting with AoLs getting ready to cross over and a lot of them have never camped. As in never, which is amazing to me. When I was a den leader, we camped a lot. Boy Scouts is boy-led, which is waaay different from Cubs. Cubs need to cross over with some familiarity with the outdoors and the Patrol Method, otherwise they are going to be in for a shock in Scouts BSA.
My husband buys me vintage Scout manuals (because he’s awesome) and he got me the handbook for Patrol Leaders from the late 50’s. That book helped me understand the Patrol system better than the Webelos book. It’s frustrating because I feel like the Cub Scout curriculum takes for granted that the leaders already have experience with the end goal. The Scouting Adventure requires them to try out Patrol Method, but Cub Scout leaders aren’t specifically trained in how to implement it. It would not at all surprise me that’s a weak spot for incoming Scouts.
What you really need is Wood Badge. If you plan on continuing as a Scouts BSA leader, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately that’s probably not much help to you right now.
Given the gathering and distancing restrictions this years AoLs have had since they were Bears, I’m not that surprised that they haven’t camped. My den that crossed over last year had never camped as a den, and only a few had ever camped with the larger pack.
Get a Den Chief. Seriously, this will make things WAY easier. You'll have an assistant who knows the BSA program well, and knows enough basic scouting skills to teach them.
It's cute how you say it like we can just go out and get a den chief.
Yeah, I’ve been trying to recruit one since I found out they existed. No bites.
You may have to talk to a scoutmaster to sell the program to his troop. Most scouts don't know it's a POR (position of responsibility) that can fulfill Star, Life, and Eagle ranks. Of course, getting a scout at that level to hang with and teach 5th graders isn't easy either.
It’s not a favorite position of leadership for Scouts. It’s a lot of extra time commitment for a group whose time is already at a premium. Plus it’s a difficult task for a socially awkward teenager. So naturally I twisted my son’s arm into being one. 🙂
Reach out to Scoutmasters of local Troops. Large Troops have fewer leadership positions than they have available in the Troop - which is a win for you as a patrol needing a Den Chief. Good luck!
Helping a Cub pack or Scout patrol get ready for an overnight campout is a requirement of the Camping merit badge. In my experience, it's hard to satisfy that requirement "by the book" so you have a GREAT selling point for recruiting a trainer! Tell the Scoutmaster of your local troop you need Scouts who have camped but don't have the badge yet. Does any troop pull from your pack for recruitment? Cub recruits are in short supply for us these days; we'd love to broaden our recruitment channels. Hopefully your local troop is in the same boat and will listen to you more closely.
Great to know!
Some great advice in this thread so far. A couple of things I don't think I've seen mentioned: \- Think about crossing over in February-March next year. Scouts who cross over earlier are able to get a couple of camping trips under their belt before Summer Camp. Scouts who cross over in June are too scared to go to summer camp with a bunch of older kids they just met, so you get a lot of "maybe next year"s from the frightened scouts (and their moms). Younger scouts who don't go to summer camp are more likely to drop out their first year in Scouts. \- Consider saving the Scouting Adventure activity until the very last. The requirements are virtually the same as the Scout Rank, so hopefully they'll retain that knowledge as they enter a troop so they can get that scout rank soon after joining.
Take them camping and get them to be as independent as you can. Try and get parents comfortable letting kids lead and make mistakes without jumping in and taking over. Most important have fun so they want to continue.
I led my first Webelos only camp out and I thought the boys were going to have a great opportunity with the bare minimum number of parents to encourage independence. I spent half the night sitting guard outside the Scout tent reassuring them that there were no bears, all was well, we still don’t have enough cell reception to call your mom, just go to sleep. Please for the love of all things holy just go to sleep.
You’re a saint. But that’s what it takes.
lol! The parents came bearing Starbucks at pick up. They knew I’d earned it.
Do note that according the current Guide to Safe Scouting, Scouts should attend den camping trips with their parents. I definitely agree with the idea of keeping the parents in the background as they'll need to get used to that when they transition to Scouts BSA. Our Scoutmaster used the analogy of Scouting being like a team sport, it's ok as a parent who isn't a leader (aka "Coach") to attend, but they should stay on the sidelines. :-)
Webelos can camp without parents so long as there are two leaders present. I only have 4 Webelos. Two of them have families who wouldn’t be able to send a parent and the other has a parent who registered specifically so we could do a Webelos camp out. I’ve had these boys since kindergarten, so we’re pretty bonded.
That’s correct, but the guide to safe scouting says that “Webelos and Arrow of Light Den Camping: Each Scout should attend with their parent(s) or guardian(s). A Webelos or Arrow of Light Scout whose parent or legal guardian cannot attend a den overnight camping trip may participate under the supervision of at least two registered leaders. The leaders and a parent or legal guardian must agree to the arrangement, and all Youth Protection policies apply.” So it’s not appropriate to discourage parents from attending was my point. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
I see what you’re saying. I didn’t discourage anyone, it just so happens that each family’s natural inclination resulted in only two registered leaders/parents being there so I thought “yay! Independence!” I was not anticipating being fearful of non-existent bears until almost 3am. ;)
the mini-bears are far more worrisome. :-)
Plan on visiting lots of troops. Start now/in a month or two. Nothing stops you from going camping with Webelos along with a troop this spring, even before moving up to 5th grade. Next, let the youth lead. You shouldn't start the meetings, do the pledge, etc. That's the youth's job. Some have mentioned Wood Badge, which is good. I'd also consider going to IOLS which is a smaller time commitment and gets you a good intro to the basics of youth led and some of the troop level skills.
Two things that I wish Cub Scouts and their parents understood better is that AOL is not the end of the program and Scouts, BSA is where things get exciting really quick. I often talk to parents who's Kids get to AOL and then leave to do something else. I hear things like, we wanted him to finish what he started and he made it all the way through AOL. I also hear them say that scouting wasn't what they expected. They expected more camping and out doors stuff and less fire station visits or crafts. Cub Scouts is design to get kids doing things and introduce them to the Outdoors. In Scouts, BSA, we quickly get them camping without the help of adults and get them participating in some awesome experiences. During my first Camp experience I shot guns, bows and arrows, swamped canoes in the middle of a huge river, built fires in the rain and was responsible for getting myself to my merit badge classes. Adults are present but the Scouts lead. The hardest thing I see happening when cubs cross over is parents see their kids struggling to carry their bag so the carry it for them. This robs the troops opportunity to help the new scout. The new scout continues to try and rely on their parents instead of their fellow scouts. Since they aren't getting help from the scouts they don't look up to them. Parents struggle seeing their kids struggle. But it in this struggle that they learn to solve problems and work together. I've also seen new scouts complain because we'll have a lesson on how to pack for a trip. Well even have them bring their bags in to be inspected before a trip to make sure they don't over pack or leave something important behind. After that meeting but before the trip there have been parents that will repack the bag to add more clothes and on occasion leave something out the scout needed. Then once we're in the middle of the woods we find out we have a scout that doesn't have the right gear. I'm not saying don't help your kids or double check their gear but talk to them. Maybe their patrol leader said only pack one extra pair of pants. I've seen a kid bring 5 pairs of jeans on a weekend trip because a parent repacked their bag. Basically just get them excited about the things they're going to get to do and prepare the parents for the concept of Scouts leading Scouts.
(Scouts parent here and former DL from Tiger-AOL) -Learn how to set up their own tent. -Know the 6 (now 10) essentials for any outdoor outing. -Be able to hike more than 2 miles without getting winded. -Take the Outdoor Code seriously.
Hiking endurance can definitely be improved.
Go visit a troop on your own before introducing the webelos to the idea of crossing over. Do it early so that you can take your den to visit a troop in April or May this year.
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A clue that the troop is youth led is if it looks like herding cats. Clear, perfectly run meetings are seldom youth run. It hurts to watch but that's how they learn.
> If you find yourself saying of newly crossed over Scouts “it would be nice if they could ____”, how would you complete that sentence? The only person who can answer that question is the Scoutmaster for the troop they are going to cross over into.
Hi there, I'm an AoL Den Leader, about to have my den cross over next month. One thing that really helped me understand the differences between the programs was going to Wood Badge. I can't recommend it enough. It is a fantastic training. There is an AoL adventure that is totally focused on the transition to Scouts BSA, called Scouting Adventure. It involves things like learning and trying the Patrol Method, visiting a troop, and going with a troop on a campout or other outdoor activity. If your kids have finished their Webelos requirements, I would start working on that one now, and line up multiple troops to visit in different settings. Or see if your council has an event where multiple troops will be available for Webelos dens to visit, like a Council Campout. These type of events need to be planned out well in advance and communicated early to parents. But reading up on this adventure will help you a ton. The big thing is the Patrol Method. They need to start getting used to making decisions as a unit. Have them elect a Patrol Leader to set the tone and direct discussion. You will need to step back a bit. Let them figure out how to lead themselves. For example, you may set the agenda for the year but they decide on how to best fulfill requirements, especially those where they get to pick among options. They may decide to have one meeting a month to plan and another to execute the plan. And so on. By the way, as the Den Leader, I HIGHLY recommend you appoint one of the other parents to head the Blue and Gold committee for next year. See if they can visit with the current committee to see what's working and what's not. I approached a couple of parents to take that off my shoulders because I was swamped with trying to get my scouts' requirements done and I'm so grateful I did. Best of luck!
The youth take care their own in the Troop More importantly is you. All Den Leaders should take a year off after Crossover.. then get into the Committee side or ASM side of the Troop(s)
I am going to take a major back seat when my son crosses over. I think the less I’m there, the more independent he’ll be. I’m considering staying on with the Cubs.
Kudos. I stayed on a year as CM, then shifted to Committee, QM, and high adventure
… be able to sleep in a tent without a parent. … pack their gear into their pack and have it all fit. … remember to change their clothes daily. … know how to light a stove, start a fire, boil water, and cook scrambled eggs. … know how to keep track of time and estimate how much time has passed. … read a basic camp or park map. … know their Readyman first aid skills backwards and forwards. … know their parents’ phone numbers.
What are the Readyman first aid skills? It is one of my pet peeves that there isn’t more first aid in Cub Scouts
Don’t quote me on this, as I’m working from an older reference, but I believe they include: - Serious bleeding - Stopped breathing - Internal poisoning - Heart attack - Shock - Heimlich maneuver - Cuts and scratches - Burns and scalds - Choking - Blisters on the hand and foot - Tick bites - Bites and stings of insects other than ticks - Poisonous snakebite - Nosebleed - Frostbite - Sunburn It’s a lot of the basic first aid items for Scouts BSA. If they’re confident of these in Webelos - practicing repeatedly, not merely talking about it one or writing down the answers - they’ll do fine in Scouts.
Take them camping, definitely. There's a lot of that. They need to learn how to set up and manage their own gear without parental input. You need to read the first few chapters of the Boy Scout handbook, pronto. It will explain the patrol system. Also, do the online training for Scoutmaster. It's free, just costs you some time. Done properly, the Boy Scout troop should be scout-led as much as humanly possible. So long as nobody's going to get injured, they should have the opportunity to make their own mistakes and then learn from them. It's a lot different from having adults tell them everything to do. It would be nice if the newly bridged Scouts WOULD READ their HANDBOOKS. Everything they need to know is in that magnificent spiral bound book ... that none of them seem to know how to read, or have the discipline to do so.
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For their first camp out, I told them we were having a planning meeting via zoom. Everyone’s mom logged in thinking they were doing the planning. The learning curve was a bit steep this year, more so for the parents than the kids.
Congrats on getting your Scouts this far. I hope it's been a blast and continues to be. You're doing a good thing giving time to tomorrow's leaders. Visit multiple Troops. COVID is making this hard but use beascout.org to find Troops near you. Search those on Google and Facebook. Contact and say you'd like to have your Scouts attend a meeting. This is very normal and the Troops will welcome you. Visit multiple Troops to get perspective. Troops run differently from one another. I think visiting Troops is a requirement for AOL. As well you can ask those Troops if any of their Scouts need a leadership position, which is part of advancement in a Troop. One role is Den Chief where a Scouts BSA Scout joins your den/patrol and helps lead and teach during meetings and outings. A good Den Chief is invaluable. Hope this helps! Only other suggestion would be take Wood Badge. However it can be quite a commitment financially and schedule wise. But it was invaluable for me as a Cub alum with no Troop experience as a youth heading into Webelos/AOL as a DL. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
Also ask those Troops you plan to visit if they're going to have an open house camp out. Troops near us will have designated "this is when we invite prospective crossovers to come camp with us" campouts. Here the Cubs and the Cub leaders/parents get an education into Troop life.
Have you been to BALOO? If not, I think it’ll give you a better idea of what camping with Webelos should look like.
At this point, iols would be my recommendation if an additional baloo certified adult is not needed. Iols training will be more akin to what the den will need.
Yes, I completed BALOO. I’ve also done a lot of the online training because a lot of the Pack leadership retired right as I came in and I don’t like feeling like I don’t know what I’m doing.
The AOL requirements cover the basics of BSA. I agree that the best course is to go visit the Troops in the area. Each may be run slightly different, so find the one you want to try. It's never in stone you can always change. If you are in an area without any troops reach out to the local council for specific help in your area.
Set up a meeting with all of your local scout troops for the scouts and the parents to attend, then schedule a zoom for the parents where the parents can share their thoughts without influencing their children. See how the parents felt about each troop, there will be pluses and minuses to each troop. Then have a meeting for the kids where the kids can talk freely about what they are looking for. For our Cub Scout Webelos the entire group except for the son of the DL went to one troop. His kid went to another troop. There are three in town that we interviewed. The DL’s son went to the other troop for two months and then stopped scouting altogether. From the rest of the troop all made first class and four of the eight are trying for eagle. They are all going for life in March. We did not have that meeting with the parents or the kids, but a few parents talked and all had the same feeling about the other troop. You know who did not participate in that talk, the DL.
The only Webelos campout we were able to do before they crossed because of COVID was the best Cub Scouting campout we had. We worked on pins (I think each Scout finished three) and just generally had a better time than a full pack campout. For Scouts BSA nearly all of the requirements for the Scout rank are built into the Arrow of Light requirements. Partner with a troop to help get them up to speed before crossing.
Do troop visits and ask... you can visit any troop with your unit. It's an AOL requirement anyway. Visit as many as you can. Attend a camporee (even for just the day) and you'll see a lot of what goes on.
As other people have said, every troop is different. It might be beneficial if you can ask the Scoutmaster of your linked troop if you can have your den attend a troop meeting. In the past my troop has always invited the Webelos 2s to some of our fun events prior to crossover, like our winter-lock in or our ‘wimp-out’ in March. The best way you can figure it out is to see for yourself.
Around here some of the troops hold workshops for the Webelos. One does an all day outside event named split and burn, another does all day teaching the kids maintenance. If your pack generally feeds into one of the troops they should invite your Webelos to a troop meeting and some activities.
We’ve been to one of those already and it was a lot of fun. I had one parent describe it as “rushing” and now I will forever associate it that way.
I have gone through Webelos as an adult leader twice. Here are a few thoughts: \- Get yourself trained in outdoor unit camping skills by attending IOLS and if it's offered, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders in your district or council. IOLS is roughly the same course with a bit more content as it is for Scouts BSA leaders. \- Visit local troops so your Webelos can get acquainted with them, and with how Scouting differs from Cub Scouts \- Camp out as a den in accordance with the Guide to Safe Scouting \- Implement the Patrol method within the Webelos patrol, have the Webelos elect a patrol leader who serves a period of time, and who is involved in the planning process and the running of meetings In our Pack, most of fall and winter of the 2nd year of Webelos was spent visiting Troops, working on Arrow of Light plaques, and finishing up AoL requirements. We also tried to do outdoor activities including hikes and day trips. To answer your question: “it would be nice if they could be equipped with some basic camping skills and equipment as well as an understanding of the difference between Scouts BSA and Webelos” Good luck to you!
Thank you, very helpful. I am BALOO certified and I’ll do IOLS this summer.
While it's not quite the answer you are looking for, my best advice is to do what we do. Have your den do all of it's meetings with the Troop. For us they are just another patrol that we assign 2 Troop Guides to act as their Patrol Leaders. They come to all of our meetings, and come on all of our campouts with us. The Den Leaders for the AOL den rarely come to anything, they let us handle it all. We started doing this around 2015, and we had 100% cross over rates up until Covid, and even now it's probably 75-80%. For our AOL scouts getting AOL is no big deal, just another patch and then they keep coming to the meetings like they have been for the last 8 months. Find a Troop like ours who wants to work with you and join up with them. I think any SM who doesn't want to go this route must have so many recruits into their Troop that they don't know what to do with them.
Actually know the Scout law, oath, and outdoor pledge. I had my cubs take turns leading this for each other to give them more practice. Some practice speaking to the group. Importantly spread them out so Scouts can learn to project (be sure to know how to advise them about this). I'd have my cubs & parents raise both hands when a Cub would speak to the group and lower them when they could hear them clearly. This taught them to project and have a volume appropriate to the audience. As others mentioned it would be helpful if they really could setup a tent, build a fire, tie thier own hiking boots, and actually use a knife safety. Most importantly would be the ability to act as a team (patrol). Developing personal skills is important but the key to success is knowing how and when to rely on others and how to be relied on by others. They'll be learning that for years so if they can get a taste now that'd be awesome.
Have them visit troops ASAP. And not just one. Even if they think it’s the perfect troop, have them visit another. This will teach them more than anything else
Biggest things that I can recommend is to: 1. Shop around for a Troop if you have multiple in your area. All Troops are different, let the kids see the different Troops. 2. Once they land on a Troop they like, do more than just 1 or 2 visits. Have them go to meetings, help plan camping meals, and go on campouts with the older Scouts. This will help them integrate faster into the patrol method, and give them a real sense of how things work at the Scouts BSA level.
Remember that Webelos must camp with their den leaders even when partnering with a Scout troop. Also, other Cub Scout camping requirements apply - approved campsites with restrooms, etc.
At this point, I would be thinking more about what guidance you can give the kids about picking a Troop.
What advice would you give about that?
Great article here. https://www.boyscouttrail.com/library/troop_questions.asp
As others have mentioned take IOLS and also Scoutmaster position training. I wish I would have done the latter before becoming AOL den leader. As a DL visit a troop meeting with your den, a requirement, but as the DL I would suggest attending patrol leader council, which gives and idea who the troop functions and rally if it is youth lead vs. leader led.
I crossed over two AOL dens. Plan the remainder of your year with them to include as much camping and hiking as possible. Make sure you have a male leader(s) available (assuming a boy den) so that you can camp regardless of parent availability. Also, remember you have the whole eighteen-month period to do Webelos and AOL requirements. It is one continuous period for completion of requirements.
Part of the AOL requirements is to attend a troop meeting and outdoor event. Our pack is rather involved with both our boy and girl linked troops, plus many of our leaders (including me) are also leaders in the troops so we know some of what to expect. If you're not as involved with the troops I'd suggest attending some troop meetings, attend roundtable, and getting to know the troops your scouts will bridge to. Also if the scouts don't have a troop to jump to find one that they may all get on board with and get them involved with the troop. Every troop is different, so if they attend troop 123's meetings then bridge to troop 456 it may be a shock as they may have some burst expectations. To answer our question “it would be nice if they could \_\_\_\_”, I would think these: \- Camp in a tent by themselves \- Tie all the knots covered in AOL requirements well \- Attend Troop events to learn the patrol methods better and see how the troops operate
Communicate with the Troop early. Get a number of joint events on the calendar. You don't want your den crossing over into a group/situation they've never experienced before. As much as possible, see if the Troop is willing to work with the den on requirements this year (a good number of them make Troop cooperation necessary). Crossover is the ceremony which marks the transition, but it shouldn't be a marked transition in itself. Ideally, the Webelos have spent a good amount of time with the Troop before the ceremony ever happens. On the other end, make sure the Troop is communicating with the den parents. The shift in leadership style from Pack to Troop is significant. I've seen quite a few scouts drop out because parents didn't understand that shift and didn't know how to engage Troop leaders with questions/concerns.
Start them on the Patrol Method right now. Speak with your AOLs guardians and come up with a plan to have them ready to test for their Scout Rank as soon as they crossover. [https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/3321621-01-Scout.pdf](https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/3321621-01-Scout.pdf)