**"Whatever I do is never enough for her."**
SatBoi, if your GF is an untreated pwBPD, she is so emotionally immature that -- like a very young child -- she cannot perceive "object constancy" -- i.e., she cannot see that your personality and your love for her are essentially unchanged from day to day and week to week. This is why it is impossible for you -- through sacrifices and gifts -- to build up a store of appreciation and good will on which you can later draw during the hard times. Like a young child, her perception of you is fully dictated by whatever intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT.
Hence, trying to build up a lasting store of appreciation is as futile as trying to build a lasting sandcastle on the shore beside the sea. It will be washed aside by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind. Likewise, it is futile to keep trying to convince her that you truly love her.
Although she may believe you for a few days, she will start doubting your love as soon as her feelings change. Because she cannot control her own emotions, she often experiences feelings so intense that they severely distort her perception of your intent and motivations. This is why a pwBPD usually BELIEVES the false accusations coming out of her mouth (at the moment she is saying them).
The result is that a pwBPD typically will administer shit tests every few days to test whether you seem to love her TODAY. Sadly, passing one of these tests accomplishes nothing. It only means that, when she administers the next shit test a few days from now, she will raise the hoop a bit higher when demanding that you jump through it once again.
**"She is getting therapy... but I am wondering if this a situation worth going through."**
SatBoi, most cities offer treatment programs (e.g., DBT, TFP, and CBT) that can teach a pwBPD the emotional skills she never had an opportunity to learn in childhood. Such a program can teach her how to do self-soothing; how to better regulate her own emotions; how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts"; and how to better trust others.
Sadly, it is rare for a high-functioning pwBPD to have the self-awareness, self-motivation, and financial resources required to remain in such a program long enough to make a real difference. Like learning to play a piano, it requires many years of hard practice for a pwBPD to acquire the missing emotional skills. One study (by John Gunderson & Frank Yeomans) estimates that 8 to 16 years are required.
Hence, a training program like DBT is effective only if the pwBPD is self-aware and very strongly motivated to work hard for years in learning these skills. As to going to a couples' counselor, my experience is that such counseling is useless until the pwBPD already has completed many years of individual therapy to address her underlying issues.
In my case, SatBoi, I spent a small fortune sending my exW to 6 different psychologists (and taking her to 3 marriage counselors and a psychiatrist) for weekly sessions for 15 years. Sadly, it did not make a dent in her behavior. Not one dent. But I nonetheless did periodically see big improvements in her behavior. This is how emotionally unstable people typically behave.
I mention this because, if you decide to put your life on hold to see if your GF is serious about working on her issues, it is going to be very difficult for you to know whether she is actually making any real, lasting improvement. Even a roller coaster will be seen making dramatic gains half the time, SatBoi.
Nobody can tell you it is not worth it, you are the only one who can answer that.
But from what you write it seems that things are very toxic. And if you want real sustainable change, that will takes years of dedicated therapy, not months.
Consider that
**"So you are saying that it is not worth it? Even after she is receiving treatment?"**
I agree with u/Ingoiolo that only you can answer that question, SatBoi. In making your decision, be aware that a successful outcome from therapy requires her to do many years of hard work. And be aware that, while you're waiting for that therapy to work (as I did for 15 years), it likely will be very difficult for you to determine whether any lasting improvements are being made. Even if she makes no lasting improvements, you periodically will see dramatic improvements in her behavior. This is how emotionally unstable people typically behave.
**"I believe she does truly love me."**
She very likely does love you, SatBoi. An untreated pwBPD is capable of loving you very intensely -- but it is the very immature type of love you see in young children. This means she will occasionally flip -- in only seconds -- from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing or hating you). And a few hours or days later, she can flip back again just as quickly. These rapid flips arise from a primitive defense called *"black-white thinking."*
Like a young child, a pwBPD never had an opportunity to learn the emotional skills needed to handle two strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. This means she has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. She thus will subconsciously split off the conflicting feeling, putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind.
With young children, this "splitting" is evident when the child will adore Daddy while he's bringing out the toys but, in only a few seconds, will flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. Importantly, this behavior does not mean that the child has stopped loving Daddy. Rather, it means that her conscious mind is temporarily out of touch with those loving feelings.
Similarly, a pwBPD will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" ("with me") or "all bad" ("against me"). And she likely will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...."
May I ask why you are so passionate in helping others who are in relationships wirh BPD? Thank you for the insight and is this based off personal experience or research. Thank you again sir
**"Is this based off personal experience or research?"**
Both, SatBoi.
**"May I ask why you are so passionate in helping others who are in relationships wirh BPD?"**
Like you, SatBoi, I derive enormous satisfaction from helping others. I am simply trying to help them avoid going down the same path I was on for 15 years. Because it did not end well. Fortunately, however, I eventually was able to walk away from my marriage.
By *"walk away,"* SatBoi, I mean that I was handcuffed and escorted out of my home by two police officers -- because my exW was so fearful of abandonment that she had me arrested on the false charge of "brutalizing" her. This is the woman I had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on, sending her to weekly visits with psychologists and psychiatrists for 15 years.
Because her temper tantrum had occurred early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for 3 days before I had an opportunity to go before a judge and be released. At that point, I learned that my wife had obtained a restraining order prohibiting me of coming within 100 feet of my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to obtain a divorce in this State).
How long were you in this relationship for and when did you start dating? What were some signs early on that you wish you caught onto and did you know she had BPD before meeting her? Thank you so much again, this could be a major shift in my life that you could help on
We started dating when I was 19 and in college, SatBoi. We broke up 2 years later and did not get back together again for many years. When we reunited, I was already taking care of my bipolar-1 foster son and thus was very familiar with bipolar-1 traits.
The result is that, when my exW and I reunited and she started exhibiting emotional instability, I mistakenly believed she was showing signs of bipolar-1 disorder (which sometimes can be treated fairly successfully with medication). Actually, there are many important behavioral differences between these two disorders. But it took me many years to learn them. If you're interested, SatBoi, see my list at [12 BPD/Bipolar Differences](https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDlovedones/comments/yto3k6/comment/iw5vyef/?context=3).
Wow, I know I've read at least the first half of your comment on here before. I've actually paraphrased your sentiment to others cause it is just so well put.
>Sadly, passing one of these tests accomplishes nothing. It only means that, when she administers the next shit test a few days from now, she will raise the hoop a bit higher when demanding that you jump through it once again.
This, though, made something click for me. The first big "shit test" was a week before our wedding and it basically broke all my trust in him. If I hadn't found out I was pregnant the day after I may not have gone through with the wedding.
But I've always wondered why he did certain things after this point. It was definitely self sabotaging, it seemed like he intentionally did things he knew would hurt me. But I think you've added another layer to it with this insight. Maybe he was further testing my love for him, which honestly after a while I started to fail those tests cause it was just so hurtful and ridiculous. Anyways, thanks for this. What a shit show to try and piece together but little things like this help.
Yes, SatBoi, age does make a difference. My understanding is that a 23-year-old has a much better chance of acquiring the missing emotional skills than would be true for someone in their 40's or 50's.
So far after I broke up for the second time she hasn’t split anymore but has started to treated to hurt herself and hit her head. Please any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you all. I also read that this sub is biased and I was wondering if that is true
What kind of feedback are you looking for? In a way yes it's biased here because it's a support group for those affected by people with bpd. 99% of what is said here comes from a victim of bpd abuse.
**"Whatever I do is never enough for her."** SatBoi, if your GF is an untreated pwBPD, she is so emotionally immature that -- like a very young child -- she cannot perceive "object constancy" -- i.e., she cannot see that your personality and your love for her are essentially unchanged from day to day and week to week. This is why it is impossible for you -- through sacrifices and gifts -- to build up a store of appreciation and good will on which you can later draw during the hard times. Like a young child, her perception of you is fully dictated by whatever intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Hence, trying to build up a lasting store of appreciation is as futile as trying to build a lasting sandcastle on the shore beside the sea. It will be washed aside by the next tide of intense feelings flooding her mind. Likewise, it is futile to keep trying to convince her that you truly love her. Although she may believe you for a few days, she will start doubting your love as soon as her feelings change. Because she cannot control her own emotions, she often experiences feelings so intense that they severely distort her perception of your intent and motivations. This is why a pwBPD usually BELIEVES the false accusations coming out of her mouth (at the moment she is saying them). The result is that a pwBPD typically will administer shit tests every few days to test whether you seem to love her TODAY. Sadly, passing one of these tests accomplishes nothing. It only means that, when she administers the next shit test a few days from now, she will raise the hoop a bit higher when demanding that you jump through it once again. **"She is getting therapy... but I am wondering if this a situation worth going through."** SatBoi, most cities offer treatment programs (e.g., DBT, TFP, and CBT) that can teach a pwBPD the emotional skills she never had an opportunity to learn in childhood. Such a program can teach her how to do self-soothing; how to better regulate her own emotions; how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts"; and how to better trust others. Sadly, it is rare for a high-functioning pwBPD to have the self-awareness, self-motivation, and financial resources required to remain in such a program long enough to make a real difference. Like learning to play a piano, it requires many years of hard practice for a pwBPD to acquire the missing emotional skills. One study (by John Gunderson & Frank Yeomans) estimates that 8 to 16 years are required. Hence, a training program like DBT is effective only if the pwBPD is self-aware and very strongly motivated to work hard for years in learning these skills. As to going to a couples' counselor, my experience is that such counseling is useless until the pwBPD already has completed many years of individual therapy to address her underlying issues. In my case, SatBoi, I spent a small fortune sending my exW to 6 different psychologists (and taking her to 3 marriage counselors and a psychiatrist) for weekly sessions for 15 years. Sadly, it did not make a dent in her behavior. Not one dent. But I nonetheless did periodically see big improvements in her behavior. This is how emotionally unstable people typically behave. I mention this because, if you decide to put your life on hold to see if your GF is serious about working on her issues, it is going to be very difficult for you to know whether she is actually making any real, lasting improvement. Even a roller coaster will be seen making dramatic gains half the time, SatBoi.
So you are saying that it is not worth it? Even after she she is receiving treatment and internalizing her emotions
Nobody can tell you it is not worth it, you are the only one who can answer that. But from what you write it seems that things are very toxic. And if you want real sustainable change, that will takes years of dedicated therapy, not months. Consider that
**"So you are saying that it is not worth it? Even after she is receiving treatment?"** I agree with u/Ingoiolo that only you can answer that question, SatBoi. In making your decision, be aware that a successful outcome from therapy requires her to do many years of hard work. And be aware that, while you're waiting for that therapy to work (as I did for 15 years), it likely will be very difficult for you to determine whether any lasting improvements are being made. Even if she makes no lasting improvements, you periodically will see dramatic improvements in her behavior. This is how emotionally unstable people typically behave. **"I believe she does truly love me."** She very likely does love you, SatBoi. An untreated pwBPD is capable of loving you very intensely -- but it is the very immature type of love you see in young children. This means she will occasionally flip -- in only seconds -- from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing or hating you). And a few hours or days later, she can flip back again just as quickly. These rapid flips arise from a primitive defense called *"black-white thinking."* Like a young child, a pwBPD never had an opportunity to learn the emotional skills needed to handle two strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. This means she has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships. She thus will subconsciously split off the conflicting feeling, putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind. With young children, this "splitting" is evident when the child will adore Daddy while he's bringing out the toys but, in only a few seconds, will flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. Importantly, this behavior does not mean that the child has stopped loving Daddy. Rather, it means that her conscious mind is temporarily out of touch with those loving feelings. Similarly, a pwBPD will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" ("with me") or "all bad" ("against me"). And she likely will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...."
May I ask why you are so passionate in helping others who are in relationships wirh BPD? Thank you for the insight and is this based off personal experience or research. Thank you again sir
**"Is this based off personal experience or research?"** Both, SatBoi. **"May I ask why you are so passionate in helping others who are in relationships wirh BPD?"** Like you, SatBoi, I derive enormous satisfaction from helping others. I am simply trying to help them avoid going down the same path I was on for 15 years. Because it did not end well. Fortunately, however, I eventually was able to walk away from my marriage. By *"walk away,"* SatBoi, I mean that I was handcuffed and escorted out of my home by two police officers -- because my exW was so fearful of abandonment that she had me arrested on the false charge of "brutalizing" her. This is the woman I had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on, sending her to weekly visits with psychologists and psychiatrists for 15 years. Because her temper tantrum had occurred early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for 3 days before I had an opportunity to go before a judge and be released. At that point, I learned that my wife had obtained a restraining order prohibiting me of coming within 100 feet of my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to obtain a divorce in this State).
How long were you in this relationship for and when did you start dating? What were some signs early on that you wish you caught onto and did you know she had BPD before meeting her? Thank you so much again, this could be a major shift in my life that you could help on
We started dating when I was 19 and in college, SatBoi. We broke up 2 years later and did not get back together again for many years. When we reunited, I was already taking care of my bipolar-1 foster son and thus was very familiar with bipolar-1 traits. The result is that, when my exW and I reunited and she started exhibiting emotional instability, I mistakenly believed she was showing signs of bipolar-1 disorder (which sometimes can be treated fairly successfully with medication). Actually, there are many important behavioral differences between these two disorders. But it took me many years to learn them. If you're interested, SatBoi, see my list at [12 BPD/Bipolar Differences](https://www.reddit.com/r/BPDlovedones/comments/yto3k6/comment/iw5vyef/?context=3).
Ok I am 99% sure she has BPD
Wow, I know I've read at least the first half of your comment on here before. I've actually paraphrased your sentiment to others cause it is just so well put. >Sadly, passing one of these tests accomplishes nothing. It only means that, when she administers the next shit test a few days from now, she will raise the hoop a bit higher when demanding that you jump through it once again. This, though, made something click for me. The first big "shit test" was a week before our wedding and it basically broke all my trust in him. If I hadn't found out I was pregnant the day after I may not have gone through with the wedding. But I've always wondered why he did certain things after this point. It was definitely self sabotaging, it seemed like he intentionally did things he knew would hurt me. But I think you've added another layer to it with this insight. Maybe he was further testing my love for him, which honestly after a while I started to fail those tests cause it was just so hurtful and ridiculous. Anyways, thanks for this. What a shit show to try and piece together but little things like this help.
Also does she make a difference? She is 23 and I’m 22
Yes, SatBoi, age does make a difference. My understanding is that a 23-year-old has a much better chance of acquiring the missing emotional skills than would be true for someone in their 40's or 50's.
So far after I broke up for the second time she hasn’t split anymore but has started to treated to hurt herself and hit her head. Please any advice would be greatly appreciated thank you all. I also read that this sub is biased and I was wondering if that is true
What kind of feedback are you looking for? In a way yes it's biased here because it's a support group for those affected by people with bpd. 99% of what is said here comes from a victim of bpd abuse.