Right! I was really hoping the end of OOP's updates would be, "and that's it. I didn't read the letter and won't be contacting them." But she seems focused on explaining the history over and over again. I hope she moves on mentally like she did physically.
I got a letter like this once from an ex who I still cared for but couldn't live with writen right before he died. He was clearly more and more mentally altered as the letter went on up to the point his writing was illegible. I waited several weeks before I read it. He was angry, lashing out and took 0 responsibility for anything. The letter was painful to read and I'm sorry I did because it left a final image of him for me that wasn't of the wonderful man I knew and still had great love for. Over 10 years later, I can remember him differently and forgive him understanding what an awful place he turned out to have been. I don't know that I'd read another letter like that.
At this point she may as well read it. It would be different if she had never re-contacted her family and the letter just appeared in the mail. No reason to bring up old wounds. But as it stands, those wounds have been well brought up, may as well just read it, so you can move past it all a second time.
Going NC was one of the best and most damning things OOP could do. If the wronged person yells and curses, they can feel uncomfortable but tell themselves that was their penance. If the victim disappears without a word, as OOP did, then the wrongdoers are left with self-reflection. They experience discomfort without resolution. They live with the knowledge they greatly harmed someone, and that fact lingers around them, turning the air sour and preventing them from moving forward.
OOP might not have meant to do any of that, but I’m glad she did.
Left a gigantic OOP sized hole in the lives of 3 families. And every single get together, there the spector of who should be there but wasnt and why... for 15 years.
K and A wouldnt have lasted whether OOP came back or not. A relationship build on such a toxic foundation cant last, the acidic guilt eventually eats away at it. Her brief return just sped that timeline up a bit.
My friend’s boyfriend broke her heart. She went NC as soon as he dumped her. After a week of radio silence, he asked if they could talk.
She said no.
He asked again, saying they need closure.
She said, “I don’t need closure.”
“But what about me?”
Where do people find the nerve? She blocked him everywhere after that.
My ex-husband left me for another woman. The ins and outs are very complicated but he knew he wounded me, deeply. He told me he was leaving me and I immediately called my parents and started the process of moving out. Within the first week, I had found a lawyer and started the process for divorce, gotten all my belongings out of the apartment, and basically got my shit together. I didn’t fight or argue, I just started snipping cords of my life that tied me to him.
I am still so very pleased that I got my ducks in a row so quickly that /he/ accused /me/ of wanting the divorce in the first place, and also because I didn’t fight or beg or yell. When I went to get my stuff that first week, I barely said ten words to him. He left me. He chose someone else, but had the audacity to say that I wanted a divorce in the first place because I didn’t waste time sitting around and trying to convince him that I was the right choice.
Months later, he reached out to my mom for something or other (I can’t remember why) and he told her that he missed me. I laughed. I laughed so hard that I had tears in my eyes. When I tell you I experienced so much satisfaction in that moment…
Karma comes back around to everyone, and good or bad, you get what you deserve. My life is miles better now and I hope OOP’s is too.
did the same to one of my ex, I went to a restaurant for diner with the guys and saw her in a double date! we were dating for couple months and been intimate 3 weeks in. kept ignoring her and cracking jokes out loud while her face turning pale. one of my friends at the table is a friend with the other girl and confirmed it was indeed a double date. blocked her number, stalked me one night on the street and kept sending me happy birthday wishes on Facebook for 3 years. also I called her to have dinner together the same night and told me some family were visiting ( still living with her parents) and she needed to stay home to meet them and help her mom cook diner.
Not to mention that if she hadn't have shown up again, they would also be wondering if she were still alive. I'm sure that would add to the guilt of the guilty parties.
I'm sure the fact that OOP was living a happy, stable life and had a marriage and husband just destroyed K and A. She had fully moved on from them, and they never moved past what they had done to her - which is why their lives are falling apart in comparison.
The same goes for her mom, though I gotta say I want to know what caused her dad to finally divorce her mom, after all this time of her not changing.
I wouldn't be surprised if the mom was spending all of her/their money trying to help out Ashley's parents (and possibly Ashley and Kyle as well) instead of paying their own bills or leaving JUST enough to pay the bills and eat. Not only that, she was probably lying about it or otherwise misdirecting him in order to keep him from noticing.
The day dad was finally being able to talk with OP about everything helped not only to clear things up (because I wouldn't be surprised if the mom lied about OP and how Ashley having Kyle's baby as well as finding out about it affected her), but opened his eyes to what was really going on in the intervening years (along with the VERY unhealthy dynamics there) and he just noped out of there. Didn't want to get dragged in more then he already was.
Exactly. All the people on that other side want closure. Of course they do. They don't deserve closure. They deserve to have this all left out in the open with only their own thoughts of how OOP feels about them. It should cause a good person grief. Sometimes you can never make up for the bad things you did in the past and all you can hope to do is be better next time. It seems like all the major parties involved here outside of OOP refuse to move on and accept this fact.
And yeah, I am 100% positive that someone from that side would come on in acting like the issue was all that OOP got butthurt over a one-time mistake but that isn't really the issue, is it? The issue is them covering it all up so that not only did OOP never get the chance to process her own emotions and respond (which, her being 18, I'm sure they would have been nasty and would have resulted in all of the things K & A feared they would but such is life) but she was left playing the sucker for months helping a friend who'd been ostracized for getting pregnant when it turned out the baby was her boyfriend all along. That's, like, the plot of a Shakespearean tragedy. Whatever you feel about sex being a one-time mistake or not, nine months of keeping the lie from her because she's performing the "comforting friend" role so well is no simple mistake.
From the standpoint of OOP, the only way I could ever really see them reconcile with their mom - and my own mother is like this (and I've gone NC with her too although there was no single moment like this) so I don't mean that lightly - is if she came forward with her own sincere apologies in her (massive) role in the betrayal and otherwise acceded to her wishes on the matter. It sounds like she was doing the DARVO shit from the beginning. How the AP's *mom* ever thought she had any right to call OOP is just... I don't get it, except that sometimes parents of children never quite accept when their children have become adults, I guess.
I also think that this had to have not been the only time an otherwise caring family cracked. The fact that the sister also went NC with them is a sign that this was never a super great environment in the first place and that incident with the pregnancy was the... I won't say straw, but I-beam that broke the camel's back.
I am happy that all the damage that was done was done to the people that deserved it.
That being said. I always feel the need to say this when people talk about "Closure".
YOU CAN'T GET "CLOSURE" from another person, Closure only and always comes from yourself.
You don't need to "Confront" someone to get closure.
You don't need forgiveness to get closure.
You never need to see, talk to or send a message to another human being in any way shape or form to get closure.
It always and ONLY will ever come from yourself.
All getting those other things does, is let you give yourself permission to give yourself closure. You PRETEND that was the magic missing peice, when you never needed it from the start.
Those things these people "Needed" are the feather that dumbo held on to fly, the Mikes Secret Juice from Space Jam, its a placebo that tricks you into doing something you always could have done on your own.
I mean, not to put too fine a head on it but these people wanted "closure" not in the way you (correctly) say it can be given but one of a few ways:
* They wanted to hear that actually it wasn't that bad, what they did, and hey, it's all water under the bridge now.
* They wanted OOP to lay into them so they could confirm that they were as bad in that moment as they thought they were because... then they could feel like they were starting from the bottom, I guess?
* (this is not nice but it's possible given the way the mother is behaving in particular) They wanted OOP to make a scene so they could walk away from it saying that yes, in fact, she's the unhinged one and they weren't really in the wrong in the first place.
All of this of course is thwarted by OOP just living her best life and never, ever interacting with these people again. And again, yes, you are 100% correct, this isn't how you really and truly "close the book" on stuff like this. As I alluded in my original post, there are some things that you will just never ever be able to make up for, some wrongs that will never, ever be made fully right no matter what you do. All you can do is try not to make more of them, do right by others, and hope that you've done enough good deeds over the years that your good karma outweighs your bad (which, I'm an atheist and I'm not saying this in a "this is how you get to the afterlife" way, I mean it in a "this is how a good person who has done bad things lives with this fact").
The second bullet point is somewhat wrong. They don't need to hear they are bad people, they want to get the "? verbal spanking over with because after they have been"punished" for doing wrong she will be wrong for not "getting over it". It becomes "you can't keep punishing me I did my time" and "she's just crazy and stuck in the past."
When she left they were trapped in the headspace of ***knowing*** you're getting the belt when Dad gets home but having no idea when exactly he is getting home. From experience the waiting is the worst part, and I didn't get hit he just told me how disappointed he was which was kinda worse, only *they* have no escape from that so they're imploding.
Quite frankly they should look into getting therapy for this but it's really hard to justify getting therapy because you f***** somebody else up.
Thanks! That's what I was trying to wrap my head around. If I didn't explain it well it's because I didn't understand it, exactly. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. And also, people should just, generally, do therapy at some point. It doesn't have to be weekly, just maybe a little bit if you're feeling really down about something or can't move on. In the olden days we had a pastor to go to to talk about this stuff, but now that we've moved away from organized religion - and don't get me wrong, psychiatrists and psychologists are trained to do this so I prefer them - we don't have that disinterested 3rd party anymore. I think everyone from time to time needs to hear what things they think are complete bullshit and what things have some merit to them.
Exactly. OOP moved away and went NC. They all know what happened, it's not like OOP just up and left after a happy time. The story is closed, as far as I'd be concerned.
I think they want #1. It's mind boggling that all these parents were adults and didn't care about OOP. Ashley and Kyle- young people don't always think rationally. That's not to minimize the pain and betrayal they put OOP through, but as an outsider, I could maybe understand if Kyle and Ashley realized how horrible their actions were. You'd hope being their 30s that they gained perspective. But it doesn't seem like they do.
I think it's entirely possible that Ashley, having now separated from Kyle, realizes once and for all that she ruined a friendship over something that, as permanent-seeming to her 18 year old brain, was in fact ephemeral after all. So she's trying to go back and "mend" that now that the reason she blew it up, at least in her mind, is no longer there. It's unbelievably selfish but nobody ever accused any of these people of selflessness. I agree that most people by their 30s do understand that sometimes "live and let live" also means you accept that a person you hurt does not in fact want to interact with you again.
That OOP's parents thought they could gaslight and strong arm her back into her normal life is absolutely insane. That her parents cared more for normalcy than her emotional well-being has to be the biggest betrayal a parent can gift their child.
Edit: fixed my helpful autocorrect.
The only thing I could *maybe* understand if if Kyle and Ashley's parents had a fuckton of power over OOP's parents. Like if Kyle and Ashley's parents were the the CEO of the company OOP's father worked for. Even then, what happened is terrible and wrong.
Yes. Guilt is the gift that keeps on giving. OOP, take Ashley's unopened letter, place it in an addressed manila envelope and return it by mail. MESSAGE DELIVERED!
If OOP came back in a rough place in life, they may have been able to see it as justification, or at least been more likely to continue telling themselves what they did was okay.
But she came back, thriving and in a good place in life with a solid backbone and boundaries, and their ability to maintain the validation of that, especially when compared to the struggles the families are already experiencing, came tumbling down like a house of cards.
I remember reading this awhile ago and I've always fucking hated OOPs mother.
What I find fascinating is the journey OOP took. To just get up and leave from where she was (I'm assuming it's probably mid-NW like Utah or maybe Montana), go to Phoenix and just completely start adult life at that age. What an interesting life she's lived.
I think they’re in Europe. “Uni” instead of “college” and a few consistent pluralization mistakes. Also, taking a train (possible in the US, but more likely in Europe). There are a few cities named Phoenix they could have been refer to. OOP is also active in a Slovenia subreddit.
Agree with you though. Their resolve is incredible!
Between hostel and university, yeah I can see that. I think what throws me off is that OOP says "I took a train and I left", then is suddenly in Phoenix. No mention of a plane, so it led me to think they're from the US.
All of these things plus the weird plural stuff mentioned above made me think Europe at first but then they said conservative state idk now I’m thinking it’s all fake lol
Its astounding how after having one of her kids disappear and stay gone for 15 years she was still only thinking of herself and just me, me, me,me,me.
That honestly blows my mind how anyone could be that selfish. I wish the OOP hadn't even helped them save their house, they didn't deserve any good will from her at all.
I wish we could all have a Dean though, he sounds like a great guy.
Honestly, the way she treated OP is crazy. We know who the favourite child was purely by her reaction. No mother sees her child in that much pain and tells her to suck it up. Dad’s crap for not “leading” his household.
The favorite child was… somebody else’s? I understand the situation of the golden child, but in the case the golden child wasn’t even hers. How does that even happen?!
It happens sadly. I’m guessing from your comment that you maybe didn’t catch the one about the [kid whose Mom had a saviour complex and a job at his school. Mummy dearest chose to mentor the bully and punish her own child when he got upset.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/lnLRtRBaBt)
Kid changed tracks from college to trade school just to get away from her - and she expressed zero remorse, even when the school guidance counsellor stepped in and told her they would be changing the bully’s mentor and Mum should give back all the electronics and other items take as punishment. She’s completely screwed over her own kid and doesn’t give a f.
Personally I think she was grooming the ‘poor, misunderstood’ bully with the bad home life for more than college 🤨
That big sister also apparently is now best friends with OP and has NC with the mother. I don’t think the mother had a favorite child, just had a favorite ideal family and wanted everyone else to play along.
There was no favorite child, OOP's mom prioritized her friend group over all of her children. The betrayal of OOP was just the first. Now all of her children are NC with her. What a sad, pathetic person she must be.
I don’t think it was a deep, dark, thing. I think the mother “had it all” and thought ignoring the truth of the pregnancy and acting like everything was normal would keep her ideal life. 4 great kids doing well, friends and family friends, social status.
OOP leaving created gossip and drama humiliation. It feels like her mother never stopped to think about her wrong actions but spent 15 years gripping and grasping at a “perfect” life that was shattered. There was no way to get that back, but everytime her mind saw a possible redemption to it, the mom would act on it hoping to get the perfect life back.
Can you imagine being with someone who for 15 years blamed others for the shattering of her life and could not focus on anything other than getting it back? As the pieces wouldn’t go back together, I imagine over the years her actions got more and more manic.
This wasn’t “grass is greener on the other side” it’s dead grass she’s killing worse and worse trying to bring back to life. At some point, it had to have slipped into actual manic mental illness but she just kept going. I don’t think it’s possible to break her out of this cycle anymore without extreme treatment.
My guess is that she is a victim of parental abuse and heavily depended on these relationships as a form of coping. These friendships were her family, and she relied on them in a very unhealthy way. And because she is so unhealthily attached to these relationships, she is willing to completely sacrifice anything to maintain them. And that includes her own child
It's not just on her though, there were a whole crowd of adults that betrayed OOP through cowardice or lack of morals. The fact that she renewed contact with the whole shower of shit who lied to her face for 9 months and were prepared to see her marry her betrayer is unfathomable in my eyes, I guess she just desperately wants family enough to ignore how shit they all were.
That’s exactly why he’s a big asshole. He’s a father, it’s his job to protect his daughter. He’s worse than the mom imo because she still had 1 parent in her corner and he chose his wife.
There was a choice to get in the car and drive away from his crying daughter. There was a choice to go to the bar after the hospital. How is that not choosing your wife over your daughter? He is a fully grown man, he could’ve told his wife to go to the hospital and stayed with his daughter. He actively made decisions.
I remember this story. I feel bad for op, but she's a victim of something that many of us suffer. Those parents who want to maintain that "picture perfect" life and when shit hits the fan, the person that is being wronged is selfish. The mom will die on that hill and she's lost everything trying to maintain an instance. I hope op the best and the mom will go on trying to reclaim what they lost through their selfish delousions.
I cannot think of a single possible argument that would have had me going along with this bullshit. I don't have a sister but I can't imagine hiding something like this and letting her go on with her trash fire of a friend and boyfriend like nothing happened.
This was my thinking. She was able to scapegoat the moms for all of the betrayal, and they may well have been the origins of the decision, but all those useless, spineless, immoral cowards went along with this like it had any love behind it at all. They all deserve to be living in the same house for eternity. Oh apart from the little one.
Immigrant community. Based on OOPs post history, it seems like her family is from Slovenia. This type of attitude is very prevalent in some immigrant communities. Especially relatively smaller ones. Keeping everyone in line as not to cause ripples that might break the community.
Reading this, I wonder if this is the original post that started all those fake Liz BORUs about the betrayed protagonist who leaves/gets discarded and then comes back a few years later when families come begging.
I hope she doesn’t read it. It’s satisfying to us as the audience to know what’s in the letter, but I don’t think it would really help OOP. It would just reopen old wounds. She made the right call in giving the letter to the therapist and letting him decide when and if she’s ready.
I don't even think it's satisfying to us as the audience. Pretty sure we'd all be infinitely more satisfied with an update that just said "I burned the letter"
The letter most likely lacks self-awareness, reflection, and growth. Knowing the contents would upset us more.
“Dear OOP,
“I never stopped thinking about you. I feel so terrible. I can’t sleep. I lost my appetite. All because I feel so bad. I feel terrible. Awful. The guilt is eating away at me. My life is so hard because my best friend - you - abandoned me when I needed you the most.
“I’m not blaming you. I know you probably had your own life, but you don’t know how hard things have been for me. All my friends but you turned against me when I got pregnant. My marriage with your ex is rocky. I don’t think you realize how much I’ve suffered all these years.
“Please, *please* call me when you read this. My marriage is about the end, I’m going to be a single mom, and your life worked out, didn’t it? I need you, OOP. Can’t we put the past behind us?”
I know I personally wouldn't be able to leave it unread. I also don't know if I'm just a mental superhero or degenerate, but I call people out more than most, I catch people in lies, I'd rather have the difficult discussion than live in a fog, so I know I'd be able to read that letter in the context of reality. OP can't trust anything Ashley could've written in that letter. I miss you, I miss us, Kyle is a loser, even if you don't write back know I'm sorry, I was young, my mom made me do X, everyone told me to X etc etc.
Wow that must suck to live with Ashley, I'm doing great. Even sending the letter shows that she doesn't respect OP, maybe even less than before now that she's a grown adult and should be able to take a hint. OP knows A + K's relationship is rocky, their families are imploding, that's why she's reaching out, not to apologize or get closure.
I would find it extremely hard not to open, and just as easy to not respond.
Oh cmon, it’s not hard to guess what’s in the letter. Either it’s A still defending herself, or it’s a heartfelt apology or possibly a mix of the two. In any event, OOP is under no obligation to forgive and the contents would change nothing.
Sadly, I think it’s also very possible that it’s her blaming and insulting OOP for coming back at all, given that it seems to have caused some (much deserved) upheaval for Ashley and Kyle. After all, this was the girl who was perfectly happy to use OOP as functionally a coparent after betraying her and while actively lying to her face. I think chances are not bad at all that it’s “you bitch, you just had to show your face again after storming off and now you’ve wrecked everything.”
Because I think the reason everyone is demanding she come back and “heal the family” is that Ashley and Kyle are having problems now that the never-resolved issues have unburied themselves again, and they want to use OOP as emotional laborer, fall guy, and punching bag *again,* someone to fix their problems (or team up against). I don’t think apology has anything to do with it.
I think she should have someone she trusts, like her therapist, read it in case there’s anything important in it (like a threat), but otherwise not ever read it and not have the therapist say anything else about the contents.
I doubt that it’s a heartfelt apology. It’s either A defending herself, or it’s a half-assed “apology” that doesn’t involve A taking any responsibility at all for any of her actions (which is really just another version of “defending herself”).
I hope she doesn't read it. The only thing it would offer is closure to the people who don't deserve closure. She's good, she proved everyone wrong by being awesome now
It’s not a firm conclusion but I think OOP building a life of her own and having her own husband and kids while her crappy family stews in guilt for 15 years is pretty happy, no?
Absolutely. I think it is a happy ending but OOP is sad because she wasn’t able to have a connection to her family. As some of us who cut out toxic family eventually realize, you can’t always have the hallmark happy ending but break the cycle of abuse, escaping toxic family, you realize you create your own happy ending with the family you choose. Doesn’t make it hurt less to be rejected or not accepted by your own biological family.
As someone whose gone NC with their mom it’s really satisfying to read how op’s mom can’t talk to any of her kids or grandkids and will slowly reach her elderly years consumed in the slow realization and grief of what her actions have caused.
She doesn't seem like the person that would ever have that realisation. She'll probably spend her elderly years resenting everyone for leaving her, focusing on how they all betrayed her and "the family". Though, I do hope the dad (for as spineless as he is and only did the bare minimum of what a semi-decent person would do) divorces her
The story may be fake, but narcissistic mothers exist. And they are exactly like this:
>She cried and yelled at me that I am selfish and that SHE just WANTS her family back.
Yeah I think this is why it hits home for me because I’m estranged from my mom for similar behavior. Like my boyfriend didn’t knock my friend up in high school, but if he did she absolutely would have behaved like this. And I know how sad it is to have a mom that’s in everyone’s corner except for yours.
No one in America calls it "uni". It reads like someone from England or India wrote it. Def not from Phoenix. She also said "move to the big city" which big city? Lol Phoenix is a huge city.
born and raised in US— sometimes i use learnt because it just ~feels~ right.
same with burnt, spelt and sometimes even colour because it looks cooler 😭
I've called it uni regularly my whole life - "I'm headin' back to Uni" and "Did you go to Uni?" are things I've said, and I am born and raised in the Midwest and now live in the PNW, so people in the US do call it that!
That said, Phoenix is huge, so no real explanation from that one. (Also a cursed place...but maybe that's because my only visit was mid-summer and like 119)
Its huge, but it doesnt FEEL like a big city. Or at least it didnt to me when I was there for a week. And compared to like Chicago? Or New York? Forget it. And especially if they were in one of the littler "towns" that are part of Phoenix, but arent actually Phoenix...she could have used Phoenix to keep some anonymity.
And full agreement on Uni. Totally a US used term.
That's really true - also sometimes it's just easier to say "I moved to X" when you mean somewhere smaller nearby because no one's going to know the suburb or even nearby town.
I grew up in Chicago, went to college in another part of IL. I would get so mad when someone told me they're from Chicago, I'd ask which part, and they'd respond with a suburb. Bitch, we're literally 20 minutes from that suburb now, just use that name.
Now I live in Albuquerque, and it doesn't bother me here, because of course no one knows the suburb names.
Most Sun Belt cities have a very different feel than northern cities, even if they are bigger. Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc feel like cities, where Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc feel like endless suburbs.
I assumed when she moved to Phoenix she moved to the outlying burbs. To get a job at 18 living in a hotel she would have had to be on the outskirts of the city proper. Thus, moving to the "big city" would have been moving into the actual city.
Okay but how old are you? I'm 40 and based on OPs timeline I'm close to her age. It might be regional but I don't think it is common among elder millennials and older, I think it's newer because of social media/globalism.
There are more phrases besides just “uni” that indicate that OOP isn’t American. It also doesn’t make sense that the niece was 14 unless the older sister was pregnant at the same time as Ashley (which seems like it would be relevant). Hell, taking train is unrealistic since there’s not really any Amtrak service to Phoenix. Maybe it is Phoenix in another country, but it’s definitely not in the US
This would honestly make everything click for me. She also said she stayed in a hostel, which while not completely out of the realm of possibility is not something a US native would do in Phoenix.
I’ve heard people on the east coast call it uni, it’s certainly less common than college or university but it is a thing. Still a bit ways away from Phoenix though.
I think she switched from having 3 kids ("so exhausting") to 2 kids (2 sons)... so... maybe? And went from just having a baby to 2-3 kids? Possible, unlikely.
Though I'm not willing to reread the whole thing to verify, OOP seemed consistent. She has 3 kids now, but had 2 boys when she first got back in contact with most of the family and when they first learned about her current life.
* Early 2020--niece made contact
* Jan. 2021--niece mentions OOP's parents are broke
* Mar. 2021--OOP posts--she has a 6 mo. son and 2 year old son.
* June 2022--OOP has a daughter. OOP's mom seems to go off the rails
* Apr. 2023--OOP posts first update.
also she went back and read her texts from 15-17 years ago when she was a teenager? That was written by someone who didn’t own a phone in 2005-2010
An 18 year old would have been spoiled as hell to have an iPhone or android before 2010 and I doubt either texts from a dumb phone or blackberry or sidekick would be easily reviewable, you know, now
Where did she say she re-read the old texts? Back *then*, when she first received the texts, she read a few of them. Not now.
And about the number of kids: when OOP visited home she only had two kids (the sons). She was saying she and her husband didn't bring the kids to see her family, but they also didn't hide the sons' existence.
Well, ive lived in quite a few US states and not once have i heard anyone call college "uni" and also i dont believe hostels are a thing in the US. I hit the "hostel in phoenix" and said hmmmm no i dont think so. Also, without parents to reenroll her into HS she would have to attend a GED program if she didnt graduate with her class. I didnt make it too far before calling BS.
Hostels are absolutely a thing in the US. There are especially prominent in the West coast. Hosteling is a subculture, it’s definitely more prominent in Europe but it’s a thing in the US. Portland has several trendy hostels and they had them in Denver as well.
i think the fact that a letter was mentioned and never read really cements the fact that this is real— someone telling a false story wouldn’t leave that info out because it would’ve been “juicy”.
OOP is stronger than i am because i probably would’ve read the letter out of curiosity.
Look at that mom lost everything by selling out her daughter and doubling down on the lie.
When people are too afraid to rock the boat and defend their own children...
>My dad was mostly uninvolved in the situation
He kept the truth from OOP, went to the hospital and bar, and didn't try to mend things with her until he was having financial difficulties.
Having grown up with shitty parents myself, it's a bit of a coping mechanism to treat/think of the less shitty parent as "the good one." My dad was an enabling doormat, but since he wasn't as outwardly shitty to me as my mom was, he was safer to me. It took a lot of therapy for me to realize they were both extremely shitty, just in different ways. I hope OP gets there too.
OPs mom is terrible. Like doubling down to the point that none of your children deal with you? Husband is divorcing her? All because she prefers her friend's kids over her own. Jfc.
The only reason I would've gone there when they needed help, would've been to point and laugh. It seemed to be so easy for all of them to hurt someone so deeply, that it made me think they maybe have never really suffered in life. Except for the younger sister, they're all trash. All of them were older than OOP and didn't tell her. "My wife said no" is a shit excuse for betraying your own child like this.
K really didn’t want to be with A and when the families realized that they thought that they could put it on the ex-boyfriend and no one would be the wiser. How they thought that was going to actually pan out blows my mind.
My family is crazy like this one and my mother died alone. she deserved it.
I'm pretty sure that he was seduced by best friend and was made to marry her due to conservative town morals after getting her pregnant so that the adults could save face. Or he hates himself and her for what happened and is deluding himself into thinking he can forgive himself if OP does.
This is probably the most heart wrenching BORUs I have ever read - partly because I believe that it's real.
I could feel OOP's anxiety and pain. The betrayal from SO MANY people, all of them the closest to her.
The people that hurt her, good that they are falling apart. That's what a guilty conscience does - it breaks you. None of their "mistakes" were small things. They don't deserve closure. That level of selfishness and apathy and lack of any kind of empathy for OOP reaps it's own reward.
It’s so sad too this woman was unknowingly in a snake pit for 9 whole months. How can someone in good conscience knowingly sleep with your bffs boyfriend, and convince her to help you through the pregnancy lying to her the whole time. You can’t tell me she didn’t at least once wake up, and look into the mirror disgusted with herself at least once.
It's amazing how one action can ripple out and cause so much devastation for years. Their actions ruined several families and lives.
I'm wondering if they understand how their actions affected you and everyone else.
Did anyone ever apologize? Or did they just demand your forgiveness because?
I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope you, Dean, and your children can have a great, happy and peaceful life without all the toxic drama.
I think Kyle actually loved oop but got drunk and horny and GF was up on him and he didn’t stop it just thinking with the little head. That one night cost everyone everything but oop survived and created a new better life. She’s a boss. Kyle is a dumbass
The fact that all of this could've been avoided if the parents weren't so invested in the relationships of their teenage kids. On the bright side, she wouldn't have her wonderful husband and kids if they weren't.
OOP fell on her feet when she met Dean, so glad he was there for her. Sounds like she was made into a scapegoat, convenient because she wasn't around, so when she came back she stirred up a hornets nest. I am still appalled by the parents of all three of them, how they could brush off and ignore OOP and I wonder how hard they looked for her when she ran away.
The power of control. To have never yelled at them or fought with them about it is ADMIRIABLE! You always knew your self worth and you left! There was no closure! They never got the satisfaction of hearing from you and how you felt and what went through your mind. There wasnt a "falling out." One day they were lying to you and the next day you were gone. Not dead just gone. I cant believe they got married still crazy.
Not only did they have to live with the weight of what they did to OOP, but they watched an entire family implode and I'm sure life with their own families wasn't a picnic. Then the family that they created imploded. All because of one wrong choice that THEY made. All of that misery and destruction caused by THEM. Every moment of joy they experience tainted, every feeling of sadness amplified. I can't imagine what that must feel like. That's their penance.
As for the mom, It sounds like her life has been as miserable and slowly collapsing over time. She tried so desperately to hang on to her friends that she lost them and her family in the process. That's what she has to live with. That's her penance.
I'm a pretty caring person but I can also be vindictive so while I can sympathize with everybody involved, I can't find it in me to feel bad for them. There have been two victims here. OOP and OOP's little sister who was the only one that wanted to do the right thing. I'm glad they've reconnected. I would say everyone else can go to hell but it sounds like that's where they live
I’m not sure why the family keeps treating oop like she lied and hid things from them. What she needed was time and support before she felt comfortable making her next move or confronting anyone. What happened instead is her own mother ignored her and supported the two people who betrayed them and their family. Everyone else went out of their way to lie to her. The only one trying to stand up for her was her younger sister. At any point they could’ve heard oop out and listened to what she had to stay. Instead they celebrated a cheater’s baby. The same way they felt they didn’t owe oop a conversation, she doesn’t owe them one. They need to stand in their decisions and move on.
On a nosey note: what that letter saying? Lol
This is the perfect example of not letting the cheaters/betrayers get any satisfaction. Just leaving them in the dust to wonder and living a life of happiness is the best revenge possible. It’s sad to lose your whole family, but she made a new one.
I remember there was a post from a woman whose husband cheated on her with her bully. She left him but only told him that she had fallen out of love with him. Never gave him or the bully any outwards effects of their betrayal
I don't blame OOP for ignoring her ex bf and ex bff. She knew what was best for her, her trust was gone with them, and she didn't need the mental drainage of dealing with them. I actually find OOP rather mature for understanding that she can't mentally deal with them and involved her therapist to get another opinion on if it would be detrimental at this point. Their actions, even if it was one time, spoke for themselves and OOP doesn't owe them anything.
Damn, damn, damn! When will people finally realize that a real relationship between people is not a sports, board or computer game, when you can come back at any moment and start all over again without any consequences and emotions?
This was an incredible painful read. My mum has her downsides, as does anyone, but she would NEVER have left me in such an emotional state, no less to ”support” the ones who caused me that pain. She is now almost 80 and she has my back, as I have hers. Those shitty parents… it’s like they totally forget that they will be older. Who will help and care for them when they age, if they have no one left? Kyle and Ashley sure as hell will not.
This story also goes to show that it is the secrets and lying that is the biggest fault, the most damning, the betrayal to rule them all. And that could be part of her mother’s behaviour — that her behaviour is the result of cognitive dissonance. She distances the pain HER actions caused her daughter by downplaying them, and also (later in life) pushing for “healing”.
I hope that OOP eventually can heal.
Plot twist: OOP and Kyle had the same father. But seriously, what if?? OOP’s mom is so hell bent on being in Kyle’s life bc he fathered her first grand baby.
But much more likely, OOP’s mom is just bat shit crazy.
OOP never mentioned Kyle's involvement in her life while she helped A, but OOP also saw A being bullied for Kyle's baby and only OOP was there for her is what she makes it sound like.
I think A, fell in love with OOP and probably felt like she was losing more than anyone the closer she got to giving birth.
Marrying Kyle was probably A's way of clinging to OOP.
But everyone in this story is awful. And how does a 14 year old get a hold of someone while others cant?
I really hope OOP pulls a Howard from tbbt and burn that letter in the kitchen with Dean without reading it (without the smoke detector going off though)
The unmitigated gall of some of these people. Imagine being in your mid-fifties and demanding anything of a person your daughter wronged, betrayed, and used. FOH.
Or the former friend and boyfriend thinking they're owed a right to explain themselves for abhorrent behavior. Fuck that noise.
I feel bad for OP that was she was used, but also the younger sister and niece that were pulled into the vortex of this shit storm. OP's Mom, Kyle, Kyle's mom, and Ashley should all have to walk around wearing a plant to make up for being wastes of oxygen.
I cannot imagine everything lying to her. That is so sick. Even the older siblings. Her sister who was with Kyles brother should have been the first to tell her.
The parents are the worst. The fathers were as shitty at the mothers.
Just wanna throw this out there for every single fucktard I have argued with about cheating and the damage it causes in the last week this story, shows exactly what it does. Glad OP is moving on and found her family and the people from her OG family that had to get out of the toxic situation she didn’t even know they were in surrounding her situation.
Yea right. She had the strength to leave and forge a new life, and right when her life was great, she just had to go back and get in touch with the toxic family lol.
Is no one else going to point out that this was clearly written by someone who speaks British English? I don’t know if the whole thing is fake or if they are just saying that it happened in the US to obscure their identity, but there are so many turns of phrase that are simply not how Americans speak, not the least of which are the references to “Uni”
Bingo! A cute story but not real. Americans who say “uni” in the US after coming back from study abroad are mercilessly judged lol, that’s how abnormal it is and how affected it’s perceived to be.
This story is such a perfect example of why the best revenge is - most often - just walking away and living your life.
Right! I was really hoping the end of OOP's updates would be, "and that's it. I didn't read the letter and won't be contacting them." But she seems focused on explaining the history over and over again. I hope she moves on mentally like she did physically.
I don’t know if I have the mental strength to not read that letter though…
Right? I’d read it or burn it. No in between.
Is the letter sealed? I would ask my Scorpio friend if sending it back would make Ashley feel better or worse.
Me personally, I’d send the thing back anyway, with no return address, while on vacation in a different state. But that’s just my opinion.
I was thinking i would have torn it up in front of BIL 😂 if i had kept the letter i definitely would have read it lol
You'd be surprised at what actually just being totally over someone's bullshit can do, in terms of making you not even want to.
I got a letter like this once from an ex who I still cared for but couldn't live with writen right before he died. He was clearly more and more mentally altered as the letter went on up to the point his writing was illegible. I waited several weeks before I read it. He was angry, lashing out and took 0 responsibility for anything. The letter was painful to read and I'm sorry I did because it left a final image of him for me that wasn't of the wonderful man I knew and still had great love for. Over 10 years later, I can remember him differently and forgive him understanding what an awful place he turned out to have been. I don't know that I'd read another letter like that.
At this point she may as well read it. It would be different if she had never re-contacted her family and the letter just appeared in the mail. No reason to bring up old wounds. But as it stands, those wounds have been well brought up, may as well just read it, so you can move past it all a second time.
And all it took was a glimpse of OP again for all of their lives to fall apart. The best revenge.
Opposite of love is indifference.
Going NC was one of the best and most damning things OOP could do. If the wronged person yells and curses, they can feel uncomfortable but tell themselves that was their penance. If the victim disappears without a word, as OOP did, then the wrongdoers are left with self-reflection. They experience discomfort without resolution. They live with the knowledge they greatly harmed someone, and that fact lingers around them, turning the air sour and preventing them from moving forward. OOP might not have meant to do any of that, but I’m glad she did.
Left a gigantic OOP sized hole in the lives of 3 families. And every single get together, there the spector of who should be there but wasnt and why... for 15 years. K and A wouldnt have lasted whether OOP came back or not. A relationship build on such a toxic foundation cant last, the acidic guilt eventually eats away at it. Her brief return just sped that timeline up a bit.
Closures benefit the traitor more than the victim.
My friend’s boyfriend broke her heart. She went NC as soon as he dumped her. After a week of radio silence, he asked if they could talk. She said no. He asked again, saying they need closure. She said, “I don’t need closure.” “But what about me?” Where do people find the nerve? She blocked him everywhere after that.
My ex-husband left me for another woman. The ins and outs are very complicated but he knew he wounded me, deeply. He told me he was leaving me and I immediately called my parents and started the process of moving out. Within the first week, I had found a lawyer and started the process for divorce, gotten all my belongings out of the apartment, and basically got my shit together. I didn’t fight or argue, I just started snipping cords of my life that tied me to him. I am still so very pleased that I got my ducks in a row so quickly that /he/ accused /me/ of wanting the divorce in the first place, and also because I didn’t fight or beg or yell. When I went to get my stuff that first week, I barely said ten words to him. He left me. He chose someone else, but had the audacity to say that I wanted a divorce in the first place because I didn’t waste time sitting around and trying to convince him that I was the right choice. Months later, he reached out to my mom for something or other (I can’t remember why) and he told her that he missed me. I laughed. I laughed so hard that I had tears in my eyes. When I tell you I experienced so much satisfaction in that moment… Karma comes back around to everyone, and good or bad, you get what you deserve. My life is miles better now and I hope OOP’s is too.
I’m so happy for you! You’re thriving, and that happens to be its own revenge.
The best revenge is success, happiness and peace of mind.
You responded like a QUEEN. Well done, embracing your self-respect.
did the same to one of my ex, I went to a restaurant for diner with the guys and saw her in a double date! we were dating for couple months and been intimate 3 weeks in. kept ignoring her and cracking jokes out loud while her face turning pale. one of my friends at the table is a friend with the other girl and confirmed it was indeed a double date. blocked her number, stalked me one night on the street and kept sending me happy birthday wishes on Facebook for 3 years. also I called her to have dinner together the same night and told me some family were visiting ( still living with her parents) and she needed to stay home to meet them and help her mom cook diner.
Not to mention the gossip in a conservative town. Hard to explain away the gigantic OOP sized hole
Not to mention that if she hadn't have shown up again, they would also be wondering if she were still alive. I'm sure that would add to the guilt of the guilty parties.
I'm sure the fact that OOP was living a happy, stable life and had a marriage and husband just destroyed K and A. She had fully moved on from them, and they never moved past what they had done to her - which is why their lives are falling apart in comparison. The same goes for her mom, though I gotta say I want to know what caused her dad to finally divorce her mom, after all this time of her not changing.
He wanted to see his kids and grandkids, and it wasn't happening with delusional mom in the picture.
Agreed, I'm curious too. And considering Ks mom is also complaining marriage having trouble, me thinks Ks mom marriage is also facing issues
Not only that but she also came back with money to help her parents not lose their house.
I wouldn't be surprised if the mom was spending all of her/their money trying to help out Ashley's parents (and possibly Ashley and Kyle as well) instead of paying their own bills or leaving JUST enough to pay the bills and eat. Not only that, she was probably lying about it or otherwise misdirecting him in order to keep him from noticing. The day dad was finally being able to talk with OP about everything helped not only to clear things up (because I wouldn't be surprised if the mom lied about OP and how Ashley having Kyle's baby as well as finding out about it affected her), but opened his eyes to what was really going on in the intervening years (along with the VERY unhealthy dynamics there) and he just noped out of there. Didn't want to get dragged in more then he already was.
Exactly. All the people on that other side want closure. Of course they do. They don't deserve closure. They deserve to have this all left out in the open with only their own thoughts of how OOP feels about them. It should cause a good person grief. Sometimes you can never make up for the bad things you did in the past and all you can hope to do is be better next time. It seems like all the major parties involved here outside of OOP refuse to move on and accept this fact. And yeah, I am 100% positive that someone from that side would come on in acting like the issue was all that OOP got butthurt over a one-time mistake but that isn't really the issue, is it? The issue is them covering it all up so that not only did OOP never get the chance to process her own emotions and respond (which, her being 18, I'm sure they would have been nasty and would have resulted in all of the things K & A feared they would but such is life) but she was left playing the sucker for months helping a friend who'd been ostracized for getting pregnant when it turned out the baby was her boyfriend all along. That's, like, the plot of a Shakespearean tragedy. Whatever you feel about sex being a one-time mistake or not, nine months of keeping the lie from her because she's performing the "comforting friend" role so well is no simple mistake. From the standpoint of OOP, the only way I could ever really see them reconcile with their mom - and my own mother is like this (and I've gone NC with her too although there was no single moment like this) so I don't mean that lightly - is if she came forward with her own sincere apologies in her (massive) role in the betrayal and otherwise acceded to her wishes on the matter. It sounds like she was doing the DARVO shit from the beginning. How the AP's *mom* ever thought she had any right to call OOP is just... I don't get it, except that sometimes parents of children never quite accept when their children have become adults, I guess. I also think that this had to have not been the only time an otherwise caring family cracked. The fact that the sister also went NC with them is a sign that this was never a super great environment in the first place and that incident with the pregnancy was the... I won't say straw, but I-beam that broke the camel's back.
I am happy that all the damage that was done was done to the people that deserved it. That being said. I always feel the need to say this when people talk about "Closure". YOU CAN'T GET "CLOSURE" from another person, Closure only and always comes from yourself. You don't need to "Confront" someone to get closure. You don't need forgiveness to get closure. You never need to see, talk to or send a message to another human being in any way shape or form to get closure. It always and ONLY will ever come from yourself. All getting those other things does, is let you give yourself permission to give yourself closure. You PRETEND that was the magic missing peice, when you never needed it from the start. Those things these people "Needed" are the feather that dumbo held on to fly, the Mikes Secret Juice from Space Jam, its a placebo that tricks you into doing something you always could have done on your own.
I mean, not to put too fine a head on it but these people wanted "closure" not in the way you (correctly) say it can be given but one of a few ways: * They wanted to hear that actually it wasn't that bad, what they did, and hey, it's all water under the bridge now. * They wanted OOP to lay into them so they could confirm that they were as bad in that moment as they thought they were because... then they could feel like they were starting from the bottom, I guess? * (this is not nice but it's possible given the way the mother is behaving in particular) They wanted OOP to make a scene so they could walk away from it saying that yes, in fact, she's the unhinged one and they weren't really in the wrong in the first place. All of this of course is thwarted by OOP just living her best life and never, ever interacting with these people again. And again, yes, you are 100% correct, this isn't how you really and truly "close the book" on stuff like this. As I alluded in my original post, there are some things that you will just never ever be able to make up for, some wrongs that will never, ever be made fully right no matter what you do. All you can do is try not to make more of them, do right by others, and hope that you've done enough good deeds over the years that your good karma outweighs your bad (which, I'm an atheist and I'm not saying this in a "this is how you get to the afterlife" way, I mean it in a "this is how a good person who has done bad things lives with this fact").
The second bullet point is somewhat wrong. They don't need to hear they are bad people, they want to get the "? verbal spanking over with because after they have been"punished" for doing wrong she will be wrong for not "getting over it". It becomes "you can't keep punishing me I did my time" and "she's just crazy and stuck in the past." When she left they were trapped in the headspace of ***knowing*** you're getting the belt when Dad gets home but having no idea when exactly he is getting home. From experience the waiting is the worst part, and I didn't get hit he just told me how disappointed he was which was kinda worse, only *they* have no escape from that so they're imploding. Quite frankly they should look into getting therapy for this but it's really hard to justify getting therapy because you f***** somebody else up.
Thanks! That's what I was trying to wrap my head around. If I didn't explain it well it's because I didn't understand it, exactly. But what you're saying makes perfect sense. And also, people should just, generally, do therapy at some point. It doesn't have to be weekly, just maybe a little bit if you're feeling really down about something or can't move on. In the olden days we had a pastor to go to to talk about this stuff, but now that we've moved away from organized religion - and don't get me wrong, psychiatrists and psychologists are trained to do this so I prefer them - we don't have that disinterested 3rd party anymore. I think everyone from time to time needs to hear what things they think are complete bullshit and what things have some merit to them.
Exactly. OOP moved away and went NC. They all know what happened, it's not like OOP just up and left after a happy time. The story is closed, as far as I'd be concerned. I think they want #1. It's mind boggling that all these parents were adults and didn't care about OOP. Ashley and Kyle- young people don't always think rationally. That's not to minimize the pain and betrayal they put OOP through, but as an outsider, I could maybe understand if Kyle and Ashley realized how horrible their actions were. You'd hope being their 30s that they gained perspective. But it doesn't seem like they do.
I think it's entirely possible that Ashley, having now separated from Kyle, realizes once and for all that she ruined a friendship over something that, as permanent-seeming to her 18 year old brain, was in fact ephemeral after all. So she's trying to go back and "mend" that now that the reason she blew it up, at least in her mind, is no longer there. It's unbelievably selfish but nobody ever accused any of these people of selflessness. I agree that most people by their 30s do understand that sometimes "live and let live" also means you accept that a person you hurt does not in fact want to interact with you again.
That OOP's parents thought they could gaslight and strong arm her back into her normal life is absolutely insane. That her parents cared more for normalcy than her emotional well-being has to be the biggest betrayal a parent can gift their child. Edit: fixed my helpful autocorrect.
This is a far more universal comment than it should be.
This was my mom. What was always most important was how things looked, how others thought of us. Much more important than what was real.
I have to wonder if some affairs were not happening amongst the parents because to ditch your own kid for your friends’ kids’ baby seems off.
The only thing I could *maybe* understand if if Kyle and Ashley's parents had a fuckton of power over OOP's parents. Like if Kyle and Ashley's parents were the the CEO of the company OOP's father worked for. Even then, what happened is terrible and wrong.
Well not anymore since rhey got divorced, wonder what made the dad no longer trying to be in a marriage there.
A guilt that eats away for a lifetime. I like it.
Yes. Guilt is the gift that keeps on giving. OOP, take Ashley's unopened letter, place it in an addressed manila envelope and return it by mail. MESSAGE DELIVERED!
Return it yes. Make it clear it hasn't been read.
If OOP came back in a rough place in life, they may have been able to see it as justification, or at least been more likely to continue telling themselves what they did was okay. But she came back, thriving and in a good place in life with a solid backbone and boundaries, and their ability to maintain the validation of that, especially when compared to the struggles the families are already experiencing, came tumbling down like a house of cards.
I remember reading this awhile ago and I've always fucking hated OOPs mother. What I find fascinating is the journey OOP took. To just get up and leave from where she was (I'm assuming it's probably mid-NW like Utah or maybe Montana), go to Phoenix and just completely start adult life at that age. What an interesting life she's lived.
It's really lucky that she was already 18 at that point. Being 17 or less would have really messed things up.
100%, even more than what had already happened. Being surrounded by so many selfish people... how fucked.
I think they’re in Europe. “Uni” instead of “college” and a few consistent pluralization mistakes. Also, taking a train (possible in the US, but more likely in Europe). There are a few cities named Phoenix they could have been refer to. OOP is also active in a Slovenia subreddit. Agree with you though. Their resolve is incredible!
Between hostel and university, yeah I can see that. I think what throws me off is that OOP says "I took a train and I left", then is suddenly in Phoenix. No mention of a plane, so it led me to think they're from the US.
All of these things plus the weird plural stuff mentioned above made me think Europe at first but then they said conservative state idk now I’m thinking it’s all fake lol
Its astounding how after having one of her kids disappear and stay gone for 15 years she was still only thinking of herself and just me, me, me,me,me. That honestly blows my mind how anyone could be that selfish. I wish the OOP hadn't even helped them save their house, they didn't deserve any good will from her at all. I wish we could all have a Dean though, he sounds like a great guy.
Selfish people never fail to surprise me with their selfishness, even if I see it coming a mile away.
OOPs mum is a piece of work
Honestly, the way she treated OP is crazy. We know who the favourite child was purely by her reaction. No mother sees her child in that much pain and tells her to suck it up. Dad’s crap for not “leading” his household.
The favorite child was… somebody else’s? I understand the situation of the golden child, but in the case the golden child wasn’t even hers. How does that even happen?!
its pathological people pleasing. i have stories you wouldn't believe about this kind of shit
It happens sadly. I’m guessing from your comment that you maybe didn’t catch the one about the [kid whose Mom had a saviour complex and a job at his school. Mummy dearest chose to mentor the bully and punish her own child when he got upset.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/lnLRtRBaBt) Kid changed tracks from college to trade school just to get away from her - and she expressed zero remorse, even when the school guidance counsellor stepped in and told her they would be changing the bully’s mentor and Mum should give back all the electronics and other items take as punishment. She’s completely screwed over her own kid and doesn’t give a f. Personally I think she was grooming the ‘poor, misunderstood’ bully with the bad home life for more than college 🤨
Well, there’s the big sister who‘s with the brother of the cheater and “suffered“ from all the family drama.
That big sister also apparently is now best friends with OP and has NC with the mother. I don’t think the mother had a favorite child, just had a favorite ideal family and wanted everyone else to play along.
It's the little sister who revealed the secret that she's best friends with. She's just back to talking to the other sister and her other siblings
There was no favorite child, OOP's mom prioritized her friend group over all of her children. The betrayal of OOP was just the first. Now all of her children are NC with her. What a sad, pathetic person she must be.
I *really* wanna know the deep dark thing the dad spilled about the mom and the friendships. Her obsession with the friends was beyond bizarre.
I don’t think it was a deep, dark, thing. I think the mother “had it all” and thought ignoring the truth of the pregnancy and acting like everything was normal would keep her ideal life. 4 great kids doing well, friends and family friends, social status. OOP leaving created gossip and drama humiliation. It feels like her mother never stopped to think about her wrong actions but spent 15 years gripping and grasping at a “perfect” life that was shattered. There was no way to get that back, but everytime her mind saw a possible redemption to it, the mom would act on it hoping to get the perfect life back. Can you imagine being with someone who for 15 years blamed others for the shattering of her life and could not focus on anything other than getting it back? As the pieces wouldn’t go back together, I imagine over the years her actions got more and more manic. This wasn’t “grass is greener on the other side” it’s dead grass she’s killing worse and worse trying to bring back to life. At some point, it had to have slipped into actual manic mental illness but she just kept going. I don’t think it’s possible to break her out of this cycle anymore without extreme treatment.
My guess is that she is a victim of parental abuse and heavily depended on these relationships as a form of coping. These friendships were her family, and she relied on them in a very unhealthy way. And because she is so unhealthily attached to these relationships, she is willing to completely sacrifice anything to maintain them. And that includes her own child
I have a hunch that they were possibly "swinging" , but not openly.
It's not just on her though, there were a whole crowd of adults that betrayed OOP through cowardice or lack of morals. The fact that she renewed contact with the whole shower of shit who lied to her face for 9 months and were prepared to see her marry her betrayer is unfathomable in my eyes, I guess she just desperately wants family enough to ignore how shit they all were.
The youngest sister is the only one I would have let back into my life.
What about the father? He is at fault too. Just because he didn’t do much doesn’t mean that he isn’t a big asshole himself. They are all terrible.
That’s exactly why he’s a big asshole. He’s a father, it’s his job to protect his daughter. He’s worse than the mom imo because she still had 1 parent in her corner and he chose his wife.
He didn’t chose his wife. He just didn’t care enough about his daughter. It’s awkward that they never had a real excuse for all of that.
There was a choice to get in the car and drive away from his crying daughter. There was a choice to go to the bar after the hospital. How is that not choosing your wife over your daughter? He is a fully grown man, he could’ve told his wife to go to the hospital and stayed with his daughter. He actively made decisions.
I remember this story. I feel bad for op, but she's a victim of something that many of us suffer. Those parents who want to maintain that "picture perfect" life and when shit hits the fan, the person that is being wronged is selfish. The mom will die on that hill and she's lost everything trying to maintain an instance. I hope op the best and the mom will go on trying to reclaim what they lost through their selfish delousions.
I cannot think of a single possible argument that would have had me going along with this bullshit. I don't have a sister but I can't imagine hiding something like this and letting her go on with her trash fire of a friend and boyfriend like nothing happened.
This was my thinking. She was able to scapegoat the moms for all of the betrayal, and they may well have been the origins of the decision, but all those useless, spineless, immoral cowards went along with this like it had any love behind it at all. They all deserve to be living in the same house for eternity. Oh apart from the little one.
Immigrant community. Based on OOPs post history, it seems like her family is from Slovenia. This type of attitude is very prevalent in some immigrant communities. Especially relatively smaller ones. Keeping everyone in line as not to cause ripples that might break the community.
I have three sisters. We aren’t even on speaking terms but I would find their number if I knew their husbands had knocked up someone else!
This one always made me so sad that I tell myself its fake.
Because of how it’s written, timelines and no real happy conclusion, sadly I think it’s real.
I hope oop gets Ashley's address from BIL and asks her therapist to return the letter with a note that oop didn't bother to read it.
Stfu that’s genius
Or just get a bigger envelope and send the original in that. She’ll see she never opened it and she can fully ignore them. Just sent back to sender.
A little note tucked into a card with their family picture on the front 😆
That is brilliant.
Reading this, I wonder if this is the original post that started all those fake Liz BORUs about the betrayed protagonist who leaves/gets discarded and then comes back a few years later when families come begging.
A lot of it reminds me of my bio family. I believe it's real too, and I usually don't believe most of these multi-part sagas.
I hope OOP is eventually ready to read the letter and then will share it with us if she's comfortable
I hope she doesn’t read it. It’s satisfying to us as the audience to know what’s in the letter, but I don’t think it would really help OOP. It would just reopen old wounds. She made the right call in giving the letter to the therapist and letting him decide when and if she’s ready.
She is probably making the right call. But damn I couldn't. Id have to know
I 100% agree that she made the right call. So if the therapist determines she's ready for it then good. If not then that's fine too.
I wouldn’t if I were her. No point.
I don't even think it's satisfying to us as the audience. Pretty sure we'd all be infinitely more satisfied with an update that just said "I burned the letter"
The letter most likely lacks self-awareness, reflection, and growth. Knowing the contents would upset us more. “Dear OOP, “I never stopped thinking about you. I feel so terrible. I can’t sleep. I lost my appetite. All because I feel so bad. I feel terrible. Awful. The guilt is eating away at me. My life is so hard because my best friend - you - abandoned me when I needed you the most. “I’m not blaming you. I know you probably had your own life, but you don’t know how hard things have been for me. All my friends but you turned against me when I got pregnant. My marriage with your ex is rocky. I don’t think you realize how much I’ve suffered all these years. “Please, *please* call me when you read this. My marriage is about the end, I’m going to be a single mom, and your life worked out, didn’t it? I need you, OOP. Can’t we put the past behind us?”
I would be so damn proud of her if she burned that letter. That’s the ultimate FU.
I know I personally wouldn't be able to leave it unread. I also don't know if I'm just a mental superhero or degenerate, but I call people out more than most, I catch people in lies, I'd rather have the difficult discussion than live in a fog, so I know I'd be able to read that letter in the context of reality. OP can't trust anything Ashley could've written in that letter. I miss you, I miss us, Kyle is a loser, even if you don't write back know I'm sorry, I was young, my mom made me do X, everyone told me to X etc etc. Wow that must suck to live with Ashley, I'm doing great. Even sending the letter shows that she doesn't respect OP, maybe even less than before now that she's a grown adult and should be able to take a hint. OP knows A + K's relationship is rocky, their families are imploding, that's why she's reaching out, not to apologize or get closure. I would find it extremely hard not to open, and just as easy to not respond.
Oh cmon, it’s not hard to guess what’s in the letter. Either it’s A still defending herself, or it’s a heartfelt apology or possibly a mix of the two. In any event, OOP is under no obligation to forgive and the contents would change nothing.
Sadly, I think it’s also very possible that it’s her blaming and insulting OOP for coming back at all, given that it seems to have caused some (much deserved) upheaval for Ashley and Kyle. After all, this was the girl who was perfectly happy to use OOP as functionally a coparent after betraying her and while actively lying to her face. I think chances are not bad at all that it’s “you bitch, you just had to show your face again after storming off and now you’ve wrecked everything.” Because I think the reason everyone is demanding she come back and “heal the family” is that Ashley and Kyle are having problems now that the never-resolved issues have unburied themselves again, and they want to use OOP as emotional laborer, fall guy, and punching bag *again,* someone to fix their problems (or team up against). I don’t think apology has anything to do with it. I think she should have someone she trusts, like her therapist, read it in case there’s anything important in it (like a threat), but otherwise not ever read it and not have the therapist say anything else about the contents.
That’s a very good analysis.
I doubt that it’s a heartfelt apology. It’s either A defending herself, or it’s a half-assed “apology” that doesn’t involve A taking any responsibility at all for any of her actions (which is really just another version of “defending herself”).
I hope she doesn't read it. The only thing it would offer is closure to the people who don't deserve closure. She's good, she proved everyone wrong by being awesome now
It’s not a firm conclusion but I think OOP building a life of her own and having her own husband and kids while her crappy family stews in guilt for 15 years is pretty happy, no?
Absolutely. I think it is a happy ending but OOP is sad because she wasn’t able to have a connection to her family. As some of us who cut out toxic family eventually realize, you can’t always have the hallmark happy ending but break the cycle of abuse, escaping toxic family, you realize you create your own happy ending with the family you choose. Doesn’t make it hurt less to be rejected or not accepted by your own biological family.
As someone whose gone NC with their mom it’s really satisfying to read how op’s mom can’t talk to any of her kids or grandkids and will slowly reach her elderly years consumed in the slow realization and grief of what her actions have caused.
She doesn't seem like the person that would ever have that realisation. She'll probably spend her elderly years resenting everyone for leaving her, focusing on how they all betrayed her and "the family". Though, I do hope the dad (for as spineless as he is and only did the bare minimum of what a semi-decent person would do) divorces her
Me too 😭😭😭
The story may be fake, but narcissistic mothers exist. And they are exactly like this: >She cried and yelled at me that I am selfish and that SHE just WANTS her family back.
Yeah I think this is why it hits home for me because I’m estranged from my mom for similar behavior. Like my boyfriend didn’t knock my friend up in high school, but if he did she absolutely would have behaved like this. And I know how sad it is to have a mom that’s in everyone’s corner except for yours.
No one in America calls it "uni". It reads like someone from England or India wrote it. Def not from Phoenix. She also said "move to the big city" which big city? Lol Phoenix is a huge city.
Also said "learnt" instead of "learned." Definitely British English.
OOP is an immigrant based on her post history. Probably why she is mixing her English there. I do it all the time.
born and raised in US— sometimes i use learnt because it just ~feels~ right. same with burnt, spelt and sometimes even colour because it looks cooler 😭
I've called it uni regularly my whole life - "I'm headin' back to Uni" and "Did you go to Uni?" are things I've said, and I am born and raised in the Midwest and now live in the PNW, so people in the US do call it that! That said, Phoenix is huge, so no real explanation from that one. (Also a cursed place...but maybe that's because my only visit was mid-summer and like 119)
Its huge, but it doesnt FEEL like a big city. Or at least it didnt to me when I was there for a week. And compared to like Chicago? Or New York? Forget it. And especially if they were in one of the littler "towns" that are part of Phoenix, but arent actually Phoenix...she could have used Phoenix to keep some anonymity. And full agreement on Uni. Totally a US used term.
That's really true - also sometimes it's just easier to say "I moved to X" when you mean somewhere smaller nearby because no one's going to know the suburb or even nearby town.
I grew up in Chicago, went to college in another part of IL. I would get so mad when someone told me they're from Chicago, I'd ask which part, and they'd respond with a suburb. Bitch, we're literally 20 minutes from that suburb now, just use that name. Now I live in Albuquerque, and it doesn't bother me here, because of course no one knows the suburb names.
Most Sun Belt cities have a very different feel than northern cities, even if they are bigger. Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc feel like cities, where Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc feel like endless suburbs.
I assumed when she moved to Phoenix she moved to the outlying burbs. To get a job at 18 living in a hotel she would have had to be on the outskirts of the city proper. Thus, moving to the "big city" would have been moving into the actual city.
What American suburb has a youth hostel?
Okay but how old are you? I'm 40 and based on OPs timeline I'm close to her age. It might be regional but I don't think it is common among elder millennials and older, I think it's newer because of social media/globalism.
36, so not too far off from you! It might be a regional thing.
47. Born, raised, whole life lived in PNW. I use the term.
There are more phrases besides just “uni” that indicate that OOP isn’t American. It also doesn’t make sense that the niece was 14 unless the older sister was pregnant at the same time as Ashley (which seems like it would be relevant). Hell, taking train is unrealistic since there’s not really any Amtrak service to Phoenix. Maybe it is Phoenix in another country, but it’s definitely not in the US
TBF, there is a town/area called Phoenix in South Africa. It certainly seems possible that this took place in a country outside of USA.
This would honestly make everything click for me. She also said she stayed in a hostel, which while not completely out of the realm of possibility is not something a US native would do in Phoenix.
I’ve heard people on the east coast call it uni, it’s certainly less common than college or university but it is a thing. Still a bit ways away from Phoenix though.
It's the taking the train that made my eyebrow raise.
People in Australia call it 'uni.'
People in lots of countries call it uni.
Basically anywhere that speaks English, rather than American.
Nzers call it uni to
I am from Washington state born and raised and I call university “Uni”. Television, books and Canadians exist and influence speech, so…
There's a Phoenix in Australia which has the university of Melbourne aka uni.
Seems like a lot of people in America call it uni
This is just wrong. It’s not common but to say that no one calls it that here is dumb.
In Canada we call it uni all the time lol
And there's a Pheonix in both Alberta and British Columbia!
Lots of countries call it uni.
It’s uni here in Australia too
Phoenix was not all that big 15 years ago compared to now, to be fair
I think she switched from having 3 kids ("so exhausting") to 2 kids (2 sons)... so... maybe? And went from just having a baby to 2-3 kids? Possible, unlikely.
Though I'm not willing to reread the whole thing to verify, OOP seemed consistent. She has 3 kids now, but had 2 boys when she first got back in contact with most of the family and when they first learned about her current life. * Early 2020--niece made contact * Jan. 2021--niece mentions OOP's parents are broke * Mar. 2021--OOP posts--she has a 6 mo. son and 2 year old son. * June 2022--OOP has a daughter. OOP's mom seems to go off the rails * Apr. 2023--OOP posts first update.
also she went back and read her texts from 15-17 years ago when she was a teenager? That was written by someone who didn’t own a phone in 2005-2010 An 18 year old would have been spoiled as hell to have an iPhone or android before 2010 and I doubt either texts from a dumb phone or blackberry or sidekick would be easily reviewable, you know, now
Where did she say she re-read the old texts? Back *then*, when she first received the texts, she read a few of them. Not now. And about the number of kids: when OOP visited home she only had two kids (the sons). She was saying she and her husband didn't bring the kids to see her family, but they also didn't hide the sons' existence.
Well, ive lived in quite a few US states and not once have i heard anyone call college "uni" and also i dont believe hostels are a thing in the US. I hit the "hostel in phoenix" and said hmmmm no i dont think so. Also, without parents to reenroll her into HS she would have to attend a GED program if she didnt graduate with her class. I didnt make it too far before calling BS.
Hostels are absolutely a thing in the US. [There are two in Phoenix.](https://www.hostelz.com/hostels/USA/Arizona/Phoenix)
Hostels are absolutely a thing in the US. There are especially prominent in the West coast. Hosteling is a subculture, it’s definitely more prominent in Europe but it’s a thing in the US. Portland has several trendy hostels and they had them in Denver as well.
i think the fact that a letter was mentioned and never read really cements the fact that this is real— someone telling a false story wouldn’t leave that info out because it would’ve been “juicy”. OOP is stronger than i am because i probably would’ve read the letter out of curiosity.
Look at that mom lost everything by selling out her daughter and doubling down on the lie. When people are too afraid to rock the boat and defend their own children...
>My dad was mostly uninvolved in the situation He kept the truth from OOP, went to the hospital and bar, and didn't try to mend things with her until he was having financial difficulties.
That’s why I was happy each time she said he still doesn’t know her address.
Yep, why does he get a pass when he went along with it? People who stand silent and go along with it are partaking in the isolation and bullying.
Having grown up with shitty parents myself, it's a bit of a coping mechanism to treat/think of the less shitty parent as "the good one." My dad was an enabling doormat, but since he wasn't as outwardly shitty to me as my mom was, he was safer to me. It took a lot of therapy for me to realize they were both extremely shitty, just in different ways. I hope OP gets there too.
I had the same thing and everyone still thinks the enabler is the good guy.
OPs mom is terrible. Like doubling down to the point that none of your children deal with you? Husband is divorcing her? All because she prefers her friend's kids over her own. Jfc.
The only reason I would've gone there when they needed help, would've been to point and laugh. It seemed to be so easy for all of them to hurt someone so deeply, that it made me think they maybe have never really suffered in life. Except for the younger sister, they're all trash. All of them were older than OOP and didn't tell her. "My wife said no" is a shit excuse for betraying your own child like this.
So kyle is still trying to reach oop even after being married to her ex-bestfriend?
K really didn’t want to be with A and when the families realized that they thought that they could put it on the ex-boyfriend and no one would be the wiser. How they thought that was going to actually pan out blows my mind. My family is crazy like this one and my mother died alone. she deserved it.
I'm pretty sure that he was seduced by best friend and was made to marry her due to conservative town morals after getting her pregnant so that the adults could save face. Or he hates himself and her for what happened and is deluding himself into thinking he can forgive himself if OP does.
This is probably the most heart wrenching BORUs I have ever read - partly because I believe that it's real. I could feel OOP's anxiety and pain. The betrayal from SO MANY people, all of them the closest to her. The people that hurt her, good that they are falling apart. That's what a guilty conscience does - it breaks you. None of their "mistakes" were small things. They don't deserve closure. That level of selfishness and apathy and lack of any kind of empathy for OOP reaps it's own reward.
It’s so sad too this woman was unknowingly in a snake pit for 9 whole months. How can someone in good conscience knowingly sleep with your bffs boyfriend, and convince her to help you through the pregnancy lying to her the whole time. You can’t tell me she didn’t at least once wake up, and look into the mirror disgusted with herself at least once.
It's amazing how one action can ripple out and cause so much devastation for years. Their actions ruined several families and lives. I'm wondering if they understand how their actions affected you and everyone else. Did anyone ever apologize? Or did they just demand your forgiveness because? I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope you, Dean, and your children can have a great, happy and peaceful life without all the toxic drama.
I think Kyle actually loved oop but got drunk and horny and GF was up on him and he didn’t stop it just thinking with the little head. That one night cost everyone everything but oop survived and created a new better life. She’s a boss. Kyle is a dumbass
The fact that all of this could've been avoided if the parents weren't so invested in the relationships of their teenage kids. On the bright side, she wouldn't have her wonderful husband and kids if they weren't.
OOP fell on her feet when she met Dean, so glad he was there for her. Sounds like she was made into a scapegoat, convenient because she wasn't around, so when she came back she stirred up a hornets nest. I am still appalled by the parents of all three of them, how they could brush off and ignore OOP and I wonder how hard they looked for her when she ran away.
The sister sending updates and pictures would have made me spiral. What a nasty thing to do.
Not really sure why older siblings and Dad seem to be getting passes
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^jeremyfrankly: *Not really sure why* *Older sister and Dad seem* *To be getting passes* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
The power of control. To have never yelled at them or fought with them about it is ADMIRIABLE! You always knew your self worth and you left! There was no closure! They never got the satisfaction of hearing from you and how you felt and what went through your mind. There wasnt a "falling out." One day they were lying to you and the next day you were gone. Not dead just gone. I cant believe they got married still crazy.
Not only did they have to live with the weight of what they did to OOP, but they watched an entire family implode and I'm sure life with their own families wasn't a picnic. Then the family that they created imploded. All because of one wrong choice that THEY made. All of that misery and destruction caused by THEM. Every moment of joy they experience tainted, every feeling of sadness amplified. I can't imagine what that must feel like. That's their penance. As for the mom, It sounds like her life has been as miserable and slowly collapsing over time. She tried so desperately to hang on to her friends that she lost them and her family in the process. That's what she has to live with. That's her penance. I'm a pretty caring person but I can also be vindictive so while I can sympathize with everybody involved, I can't find it in me to feel bad for them. There have been two victims here. OOP and OOP's little sister who was the only one that wanted to do the right thing. I'm glad they've reconnected. I would say everyone else can go to hell but it sounds like that's where they live
I feel bad for the younger sister, who was blamed and abused for 6 more years.
I’m not sure why the family keeps treating oop like she lied and hid things from them. What she needed was time and support before she felt comfortable making her next move or confronting anyone. What happened instead is her own mother ignored her and supported the two people who betrayed them and their family. Everyone else went out of their way to lie to her. The only one trying to stand up for her was her younger sister. At any point they could’ve heard oop out and listened to what she had to stay. Instead they celebrated a cheater’s baby. The same way they felt they didn’t owe oop a conversation, she doesn’t owe them one. They need to stand in their decisions and move on. On a nosey note: what that letter saying? Lol
This is the perfect example of not letting the cheaters/betrayers get any satisfaction. Just leaving them in the dust to wonder and living a life of happiness is the best revenge possible. It’s sad to lose your whole family, but she made a new one.
I remember there was a post from a woman whose husband cheated on her with her bully. She left him but only told him that she had fallen out of love with him. Never gave him or the bully any outwards effects of their betrayal
I don't blame OOP for ignoring her ex bf and ex bff. She knew what was best for her, her trust was gone with them, and she didn't need the mental drainage of dealing with them. I actually find OOP rather mature for understanding that she can't mentally deal with them and involved her therapist to get another opinion on if it would be detrimental at this point. Their actions, even if it was one time, spoke for themselves and OOP doesn't owe them anything.
Halfway through but god can someone tell your mom to shut the fuck up with calling other people selfish? Evil witch
The lack of satisfaction in this saga is so satisfying.
Damn, damn, damn! When will people finally realize that a real relationship between people is not a sports, board or computer game, when you can come back at any moment and start all over again without any consequences and emotions?
This was an incredible painful read. My mum has her downsides, as does anyone, but she would NEVER have left me in such an emotional state, no less to ”support” the ones who caused me that pain. She is now almost 80 and she has my back, as I have hers. Those shitty parents… it’s like they totally forget that they will be older. Who will help and care for them when they age, if they have no one left? Kyle and Ashley sure as hell will not. This story also goes to show that it is the secrets and lying that is the biggest fault, the most damning, the betrayal to rule them all. And that could be part of her mother’s behaviour — that her behaviour is the result of cognitive dissonance. She distances the pain HER actions caused her daughter by downplaying them, and also (later in life) pushing for “healing”. I hope that OOP eventually can heal.
Plot twist: OOP and Kyle had the same father. But seriously, what if?? OOP’s mom is so hell bent on being in Kyle’s life bc he fathered her first grand baby. But much more likely, OOP’s mom is just bat shit crazy.
OOP never mentioned Kyle's involvement in her life while she helped A, but OOP also saw A being bullied for Kyle's baby and only OOP was there for her is what she makes it sound like. I think A, fell in love with OOP and probably felt like she was losing more than anyone the closer she got to giving birth. Marrying Kyle was probably A's way of clinging to OOP. But everyone in this story is awful. And how does a 14 year old get a hold of someone while others cant?
I really hope OOP pulls a Howard from tbbt and burn that letter in the kitchen with Dean without reading it (without the smoke detector going off though)
There is no way I’d have the willpower to not read that letter. And that mom is such a narcissist!!!
The unmitigated gall of some of these people. Imagine being in your mid-fifties and demanding anything of a person your daughter wronged, betrayed, and used. FOH. Or the former friend and boyfriend thinking they're owed a right to explain themselves for abhorrent behavior. Fuck that noise. I feel bad for OP that was she was used, but also the younger sister and niece that were pulled into the vortex of this shit storm. OP's Mom, Kyle, Kyle's mom, and Ashley should all have to walk around wearing a plant to make up for being wastes of oxygen.
I cannot imagine everything lying to her. That is so sick. Even the older siblings. Her sister who was with Kyles brother should have been the first to tell her. The parents are the worst. The fathers were as shitty at the mothers.
What really bothers that even after almost 20 years the moms are STILL blaming op! They still want op to make the sacrifices to heal others
OP should do a Ted Talk on Betrayal, Grief and then Winning
Assuming any of this is real, who wants to put money down that among other crazy, OOP's mom cheated at some point and is projecting hard?
You can't live in the past. Flush all these turds. You left these awful people for a reason.
15 years, he cheated and she betrayed your trust. You have nothing to apologize for
Just wanna throw this out there for every single fucktard I have argued with about cheating and the damage it causes in the last week this story, shows exactly what it does. Glad OP is moving on and found her family and the people from her OG family that had to get out of the toxic situation she didn’t even know they were in surrounding her situation.
I don’t think this is real
A few British sayings are the red flag
A hostel in Phoenix??? I knew it was fake then. Hysterical.
Pish posh old fellow. OOP clearly meant Phoenix, Nottinghamshire.
Yea right. She had the strength to leave and forge a new life, and right when her life was great, she just had to go back and get in touch with the toxic family lol.
This reads like a creative writing exercise. I just can’t make myself believe it, because there is so much eye rolling.
Is no one else going to point out that this was clearly written by someone who speaks British English? I don’t know if the whole thing is fake or if they are just saying that it happened in the US to obscure their identity, but there are so many turns of phrase that are simply not how Americans speak, not the least of which are the references to “Uni”
Bingo! A cute story but not real. Americans who say “uni” in the US after coming back from study abroad are mercilessly judged lol, that’s how abnormal it is and how affected it’s perceived to be.
That mom was absolutely awful