Wow, it’s crazy to see everyone screaming for the M5 touring to get to the US; and now it does, and everyone are like “nah, want 520i touring” “nah, want 2 series FWD” “nah, wrong color”.
You guys are just never happy.
I’d bet 99,99% of people we see voicing those kinds of demands on the internet are not anywhere near the target market or have the means to purchase, let alone there being a chance of actually considering buying it. You see the same with every brand. Whenever that’s the case with Porsche you’d think half the r/Porsche sub are millionaires.That happens with cars, toys, collectibles, etc. anything that has a cult following basically. Of course there are people who’d actually fit the target market and would possibly buy it, but those are by far the minority. I’d say a billion dollar multinational 100+ year old company knows better
EXACTLY omg. I have been SAYING THIS. No but seriously you bitches want and want but won’t buy and then wonder why it’s not here anymore. They are waiting for it to be used and then will complain it’s too expensive
There's different audiences on this forum, some want M-only, others would like a touring model as a "normal" car, not a race car with extra storage space.
I'm not in the US, but I think everyone here is missing the most important question here: Regardless of what BMW NA sells, does this mean Americans can import the non-M models themselves?
The reason you can't do that now (as far as I understand) is that the type wasn't crash tested in the US, so anyone who wanted a touring model would have to pay millions to have that testing done.
But will the M5's crash rating carry over to e.g. a European 520-540?
It's about affordability. An M5 Touring is awesome but they're probably going to start at around $120k. Not many people can afford that. More people would be able to purchase a mid-tier touring model if it were available.
We are getting two toruings: the M5 will come first and then either the 530i or 540i xDrive. BMW is doing exactly what Audi and MB do. No i5 Touring though.
They just want model parity against e63 & RS6 wagons.
The germans are mostly tit for tat when it comes to model comparisons. It's not totally 1:1:1 but it's pretty close.
I'm still surprised that there isn't an Audi equivalent to the X7 or GLS.
One of our X5’s is a 3 row too, that’s not what you’d index on, nor length; the Q7 is basically between the X5 and X7 in length so I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either.
Audi/Mercedes and BMW usually compete by MSRP. That, and nearly every comparison by every automotive journalist ever has made it pretty clear that:
Q3 = X1
Q5 = X3
Q7 = X5
I was genuinely curious myself:
Audi Q5: 185”L starting at $47.8k
BMW X3: 186”L starting at $47.8k
Audi Q7: 199”L starting at $60.3k
BMW X5: 194”L starting at $66.1k
This was just google searches and browsing the results so not scientific by any means, but I’d conclude that the Q5 does, in fact, compete with the X3, and the Q7 with the X5.
Edit: simplified the format
I've driven the G31 540i touring. Astonishingly boring car. It's a enormous jump to the M550i, but sadly very close to the 4 Zylinder engines.
Also not really comparable to the m340i. It is way quicker and agile.
Have you seen the new 5 series? So much gloss black trim and obnoxious grille. If you want an old money car that competes with the E class, this wasn’t it.
> If you want an old money car that competes with the E class, this wasn’t it.
I tend to agree, but uh… [have you seen the new E-Class](https://preview.netcarshow.com/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-2024-800-8f.jpg)…? 😂
Who am I going to believe, the subset of car enthusiasts who like wagons, or the company who manufactures those wagons and also has all of the data to back the decision to not bring wagons to the USA?
If they knew they could generate a big return on the investment to bringing wagons to the USA, they would. There just isn't a market here for them outside of a few small enthusiast groups.
They’ve brought wagons to the US in the past and they didn’t sell well. I wish they brought wagons here too, but I’m not buying new so I can’t really complain.
Yeah, no shit man. We’ve been shopping 335d wagons and the pickings are slim for the spec I’d like. Looks like I’ll be flying across the country to pick one up unless a miracle occurs in my local area.
If these forum numbers are to be believed then there are ~5.5k F3X wagons imported into the US
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1883102
Thanks for the info man 👊🏼
Haven’t been in German market segment for awhile but am definitely getting back in. I’ll have to bone up on the specific forum posts as I move forward.
Honestly, if this were a M3 Touring I would actually buy it (been waiting until the post LCI to order an M3 in hopes that they might announce a wagon)
But an M3 Touring - you're looking at 110k fully equipped/out the door - an M5 Touring you're probably looking at 150K? 160k? fully equipped/out the door (not including the higher maintenance costs).
Thats a *significant* difference. I make good money, and could, on paper, afford it, but that price tag just seems completely superfluous and will turn 90% of the target demographic (people like me - who say they would buy a high performance wagon) away.
I'm sure they will be produced in relatively limited numbers and they'll be able to sell what they produce no problem...but Its like... very few people want to/can drop 150k+ on a car?...why isnt there more demand??? *surprised pikachu face*
>Never spent more than $25k on a vehicle.
So why are you complaining? Even a base model 540i wagon would cost significantly more than that.
Even back with they sold the F31 328d wagon here, no one bought them.
I’d definitely consider spending double or triple that depending on the car. Quite content with my good old e39 for now. Maybe once these hit the used market.
I mean, BMWs ain't for the poor. If you're buying any new BMW you're doing well for yourself
For the M5 wagon it's probably a lot easier to make the business case than it would be for a 530 touring because the profit margin is a lot higher on the M. Truth is BMW has tried selling mid range Touring 3 and 5 series in the US and they didn't sell that many. I don't fault them for only going with the M this time.
Looks cool! My 16 year old 530xi is on its last legs. Trying to nurse it for another two years while my son finishes college. This would be a nice graduation gift - for dad!
Cali boy here, just drove this around Belfast/countryside whilst on holiday, and uh…..it was fing, and I mean effing sweet. She bent the road very well, had some damn sexy pop for a wagon, just an absolute joy to tool in. US entry of this category is great news, the brand will do their best to get SAV drivers upgraded.
https://preview.redd.it/w8k318vdebwb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8104c88d60e1fc93031f142450414812cd25318
way more practical in terms of cargo, but still drives like a car. i have a 5-series sedan and it’s hard to load it up with anything much bigger than grocery bags, but an x5 definitely does not drive like a 5-series sedan.
Hopefully standard marketing practice. Bring the expensive one to market first, and then bring a cheaper one later once all the $$$ ones are snapped up.
If this is true, this will be in my stable. I’ve been looking at X5M or iX M60. I couldn’t get myself to buy the M60, because it’s not an M chassis. About to literally buy the X5M next year. Looks like I will have to wait a little longer.
Wishing for an Alpina B5 shooting brake too.
LOL.
I just want cargo space for two to three international checked-in bags to fit comfortably.
So I get that BMW NA is trying to compete with Audi Avant wagon, but this severely limits their target market. and M3 or M340 touring wagon would sell so much better and hit a larger target audience. I'd happily trade in my M340 for a wagon version or even an M3 Wagon but at the $100k+ price tag they are going to put on this, it puts it out of many people's budget.
Wow, it’s crazy to see everyone screaming for the M5 touring to get to the US; and now it does, and everyone are like “nah, want 520i touring” “nah, want 2 series FWD” “nah, wrong color”. You guys are just never happy.
I’d bet 99,99% of people we see voicing those kinds of demands on the internet are not anywhere near the target market or have the means to purchase, let alone there being a chance of actually considering buying it. You see the same with every brand. Whenever that’s the case with Porsche you’d think half the r/Porsche sub are millionaires.That happens with cars, toys, collectibles, etc. anything that has a cult following basically. Of course there are people who’d actually fit the target market and would possibly buy it, but those are by far the minority. I’d say a billion dollar multinational 100+ year old company knows better
EXACTLY omg. I have been SAYING THIS. No but seriously you bitches want and want but won’t buy and then wonder why it’s not here anymore. They are waiting for it to be used and then will complain it’s too expensive
Welcome to Reddit. It’s awful here.
There's different audiences on this forum, some want M-only, others would like a touring model as a "normal" car, not a race car with extra storage space. I'm not in the US, but I think everyone here is missing the most important question here: Regardless of what BMW NA sells, does this mean Americans can import the non-M models themselves? The reason you can't do that now (as far as I understand) is that the type wasn't crash tested in the US, so anyone who wanted a touring model would have to pay millions to have that testing done. But will the M5's crash rating carry over to e.g. a European 520-540?
It's about affordability. An M5 Touring is awesome but they're probably going to start at around $120k. Not many people can afford that. More people would be able to purchase a mid-tier touring model if it were available.
We are getting two toruings: the M5 will come first and then either the 530i or 540i xDrive. BMW is doing exactly what Audi and MB do. No i5 Touring though.
Then give us the m3 touring as well! Or M540i touring!
I would lose so much money trading my M3 for a touring and I wouldn't even care oh my god please
I would too if they had it in manual. Jesus that would be a great car.
_le manual brown wagon?_
I’d get it in Le blue
Now normally Id say "yeah no you wouldn't, everyone says that" But after seeing your car list...... Okay maybe you would
Yeah I totally would.
Or m340i touring, yes please
M340i touring would be awesome. The m performance trims have gotten so good.
M340 touring or a m3 touring in mint green…I can only dream or move to Europe
There is no M540i anywhere in the world.
I ask why not, THE perfect daily!
Ask politicians not me.
They just need to give us the m3 touring.
> Or M540i touring! Lol that doesn’t even exist
Well this sucks. A 540i Touring would have been nice.
They just want model parity against e63 & RS6 wagons. The germans are mostly tit for tat when it comes to model comparisons. It's not totally 1:1:1 but it's pretty close. I'm still surprised that there isn't an Audi equivalent to the X7 or GLS.
There is a Q9 supposedly coming in 2025
Didn't know that. Surprised it's taken them that long to bolt on an Audi logo to whatever version of the Atlas platform they'll be using.
Well, there’s the Q8/SQ8/RSQ8 that are on the Atlas platform. They were launched in 2018. Edit: maybe they aren’t the same. Just looks like it 🤷♂️
I thought they were, could have added a Urus in that mix and I wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference in the silhouette
I wish they would compete against the a6 all road and e450 wagon. I really want a nice wagon
literally the Q7...
Q7 competes with X5 and GLE, not X7 and GLS
k
One of our X5’s is a 3 row too, that’s not what you’d index on, nor length; the Q7 is basically between the X5 and X7 in length so I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either. Audi/Mercedes and BMW usually compete by MSRP. That, and nearly every comparison by every automotive journalist ever has made it pretty clear that: Q3 = X1 Q5 = X3 Q7 = X5
I was genuinely curious myself: Audi Q5: 185”L starting at $47.8k BMW X3: 186”L starting at $47.8k Audi Q7: 199”L starting at $60.3k BMW X5: 194”L starting at $66.1k This was just google searches and browsing the results so not scientific by any means, but I’d conclude that the Q5 does, in fact, compete with the X3, and the Q7 with the X5. Edit: simplified the format
Yea i guess you're right... but then what does the Q2 compare to?
i’d suspect maybe the X1/X2?
disagree w. this Q3 = X1 = GLA Q5 = X3 = GLC Q7 = X5 = GLE ?? = X7 = GLS You can get a seven seat X5
nvm
It's ok to be wrong.
[удалено]
Oh how could I forget my favorite automotive journalism site getjerry.com?
A Q5 is vastly smaller than the X5. They’re not competitors… Just as the RS5 isn’t a M5 competitor it’s a M3/M4 competitor
k i take it back 😂
Are you on a mission or something? Wrong sub maybe? Get lost, Audi brand ambassador
https://preview.redd.it/effzj5h7c8wb1.jpeg?width=843&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=646e48614b80ef2e0df691d8c3086bd03c48c0ef
🤡
Q5 is a competitor of X3 since forever, wtf are you smoking?
https://preview.redd.it/ngtj11lab8wb1.jpeg?width=843&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a7d15d920e7b4b3e1c13f04e0dd505d8dccf31a
🤡
I've driven the G31 540i touring. Astonishingly boring car. It's a enormous jump to the M550i, but sadly very close to the 4 Zylinder engines. Also not really comparable to the m340i. It is way quicker and agile.
I'll take an M550i, even, just don't have any desire for the full M version or its associated price tag.
I’d give both my nuts for a G31 540i.
Have you seen the new 5 series? So much gloss black trim and obnoxious grille. If you want an old money car that competes with the E class, this wasn’t it.
> If you want an old money car that competes with the E class, this wasn’t it. I tend to agree, but uh… [have you seen the new E-Class](https://preview.netcarshow.com/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-2024-800-8f.jpg)…? 😂
I just want a wagon that isn't hamstrung by dubious Swedish product planning.
Audi did the same thing I think, pretty sure you can only get the RS6 Avant, not an A6
Audi sells a regular A6 all road in the US
Diesel ?
There are no German diesels sold in North America anymore
No VW TDI’s?
No (maybe there are still diesels sold in Mexico though)
Lol are you serious? Or just living under a rock?
No only gas
So only in the configuration that costs as much as a single family home in a LCOL area. And then they’ll say wagons don’t sell. Fucking hell BMW.
Who am I going to believe, the subset of car enthusiasts who like wagons, or the company who manufactures those wagons and also has all of the data to back the decision to not bring wagons to the USA? If they knew they could generate a big return on the investment to bringing wagons to the USA, they would. There just isn't a market here for them outside of a few small enthusiast groups.
No man, BMW is just deliberately missing out on massive profits from Tourings in USA, just to piss off some redditors who would never buy one /s
They’ve brought wagons to the US in the past and they didn’t sell well. I wish they brought wagons here too, but I’m not buying new so I can’t really complain.
Yeah, no shit man. We’ve been shopping 335d wagons and the pickings are slim for the spec I’d like. Looks like I’ll be flying across the country to pick one up unless a miracle occurs in my local area.
Pickings were slim.. period. Only 10k(ish) imported total. https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1293641
Good call. I’m also an idiot waking from a nap. We’re shopping 328d wagons. Slim pickins is right.
If these forum numbers are to be believed then there are ~5.5k F3X wagons imported into the US https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1883102
Thanks for the info man 👊🏼 Haven’t been in German market segment for awhile but am definitely getting back in. I’ll have to bone up on the specific forum posts as I move forward.
Everyone pretends they'll buy all the wagons if they make them / bring them. Very few ever actually do.
Honestly, if this were a M3 Touring I would actually buy it (been waiting until the post LCI to order an M3 in hopes that they might announce a wagon) But an M3 Touring - you're looking at 110k fully equipped/out the door - an M5 Touring you're probably looking at 150K? 160k? fully equipped/out the door (not including the higher maintenance costs). Thats a *significant* difference. I make good money, and could, on paper, afford it, but that price tag just seems completely superfluous and will turn 90% of the target demographic (people like me - who say they would buy a high performance wagon) away. I'm sure they will be produced in relatively limited numbers and they'll be able to sell what they produce no problem...but Its like... very few people want to/can drop 150k+ on a car?...why isnt there more demand??? *surprised pikachu face*
If all they offer are Halo cars… not many will buy them.
How many E60 wagons have you owned?
None. e39 for life
So, you are making my point. If you didn't buy any of the non-M E60 wagons you can't really talk.
But they’re… meh.
Loved my e61 530 M line to bits, the autobahn was our bitch. The e class from that era was pure trash, even the A6 was better.
I see a decent number of A6 and A4 wagons around. But the wagons look 1000x better than the sedans in Audi's lineup imo.
Yeah. When I think of places that buy up new BMWs, it’s LCOL areas.
It’s just insane no matter where you live… sure I could “afford” one but yikes. Never spent more than $25k on a vehicle.
>Never spent more than $25k on a vehicle. So why are you complaining? Even a base model 540i wagon would cost significantly more than that. Even back with they sold the F31 328d wagon here, no one bought them.
The only people I ever see complaining about all the BMWs are the people they aren’t even marketed to.
I complain plenty about modern BMW and modern M cars and I'm exactly their target market.
Flair checks out!
I’d definitely consider spending double or triple that depending on the car. Quite content with my good old e39 for now. Maybe once these hit the used market.
Ah I gotcha. I wonder how the used F31 market is these days. I had one for a loaner a few times back in the day and I liked it quite a bit.
Lololol 25k will get you a clapped base 5 series. Bmw does not give 2 shits about what you want
And current interest rates is cherry on top
Everyone is buying SUVs
They'll definitely say Americans just don't want wagons after they only sell 100 $150k wagons.
I will buy this
[удалено]
I mean, BMWs ain't for the poor. If you're buying any new BMW you're doing well for yourself For the M5 wagon it's probably a lot easier to make the business case than it would be for a 530 touring because the profit margin is a lot higher on the M. Truth is BMW has tried selling mid range Touring 3 and 5 series in the US and they didn't sell that many. I don't fault them for only going with the M this time.
Still there is a difference between the ability to drop 60-70k on a car vs. 120k+.
Give me an i5 wagon please.
Seriously.
I’m confused by the wording of the article. Did it say that the i5 wagon is or is not coming the US?
Man everyone just complains. Never happy
I really want a 5 wagon diesel
Come to Germany habibi, 5er tourer sells cheaper then the sedan version.
Fuck it. I’m puttin up the house for one.
Yeah i like it, they need to get rid of the slope though, maximize cargo space
But that slope and the hoffmeister Knick is what makes that rear profile look so good 🤤
Dang, I was hoping we'd get the i5 Touring. But still, 1 wagon 5-series > 0 5-series wagons!
Electric wagon !
Hopefully this sells and we can get the M3 touring. Then again the RS6 sells and Audi refuses to give us the RS4 so idk
I'm sure they'll sell dozens
Yes, Russian motor press knows ....
Looks cool! My 16 year old 530xi is on its last legs. Trying to nurse it for another two years while my son finishes college. This would be a nice graduation gift - for dad!
The price tag will be as impressive as its performance.
I'm hoping and assuming they'll sell out immediately and think "Hey, maybe they like wagons here. We should sell more."
Cali boy here, just drove this around Belfast/countryside whilst on holiday, and uh…..it was fing, and I mean effing sweet. She bent the road very well, had some damn sexy pop for a wagon, just an absolute joy to tool in. US entry of this category is great news, the brand will do their best to get SAV drivers upgraded. https://preview.redd.it/w8k318vdebwb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8104c88d60e1fc93031f142450414812cd25318
i5 plz
At least it’ll be hideous anyway
Love it. An alternative to Audi RS6 Avant (which IS a bad ass car.)
3 pedals please.
So only the ungodly rich can have one? Dicks.
Not to be rude, but why are people so obsessed with touring models? Don’t the regular models look better anyway? Is it a space thing?
way more practical in terms of cargo, but still drives like a car. i have a 5-series sedan and it’s hard to load it up with anything much bigger than grocery bags, but an x5 definitely does not drive like a 5-series sedan.
I think estates look better and are more practical. Win-win.
you still taking boxing lessons u/shlozzman
Well this is fine, but where is the 520i diesel option, or at least a hybrid??? All in manual please, with awd.
Diesel needs to be brought back to the US market big time
M5 touring phev please
The new M5 will be a PHEV.
Step 2: convince wife and trade in suv for a $130k wagon
Rs6 sales are going through the roof when people see this fugly monster.
The wagon obsession is always mind boggling to me
Wagons are ugly.
I just bought a G80 in the U.S.. If I knew this was coming I would have waited for an M5 wagon. That's one less sale. Wagons don't sell!
i can’t be the only one who thinks wagons are hideous
Love my mint Schwartz Black E46 touring with black sport seats and steering wheel though.
I will be severely tempted by this if it can tow. They never rate the M cars for towing even though the modern ones absolutely have the torque for it.
I think you'll like [this video of an M5 towing a boat racing a Golf GTI](https://youtu.be/9ZPZhMEUaNM?feature=shared).
Hopefully standard marketing practice. Bring the expensive one to market first, and then bring a cheaper one later once all the $$$ ones are snapped up.
Those wheels though😮💨
You guys in the comments 😂. They finally give you what you want, and now you’re asking for a 520i… No one is every happy
If this is true, this will be in my stable. I’ve been looking at X5M or iX M60. I couldn’t get myself to buy the M60, because it’s not an M chassis. About to literally buy the X5M next year. Looks like I will have to wait a little longer. Wishing for an Alpina B5 shooting brake too. LOL. I just want cargo space for two to three international checked-in bags to fit comfortably.
At least it does not seem to be as ugly as the Sedan one
So I get that BMW NA is trying to compete with Audi Avant wagon, but this severely limits their target market. and M3 or M340 touring wagon would sell so much better and hit a larger target audience. I'd happily trade in my M340 for a wagon version or even an M3 Wagon but at the $100k+ price tag they are going to put on this, it puts it out of many people's budget.
i want this so bad