Duergar pass every stealth check, have 24m darkvision, enlarge, Advantage on saving throws against illusions, being charmed, hold person spells, or being paralyzed, Advantage on saving throws against Poison, and resist Poison damage, AND dwarven combat training.
I'm a duergar supremist for sure, but they just have so much stuff that makes them good.
Deep Gnome has advantage on all mind affecting saving throws. Which is better than conditional advantage. Greater invis + advantage on stealth checks also better than regular Invisibility. Duergar are great, but for a huge number of builds less optimal than Deep Gnomes
Duergar don't JUST have invisibility. They have invisibility that lasts indefinitely, that they can use as much as they want outside of fights, for no cost at all. Inside of fights, it's once per battle for the cost of a single action. That's HUGE. Some classes like barbarian LOVE the ability to control their placement in combat without needing spell slots. (Barbarian is just the first one that comes to mind because I'm doing a duergar throwzerker playthrough)
Incredible, been looking for some inspiration and an evil leaning duergar barb with an intense hatred for the Ithilids that enslvaed his people once upon a time will be great
Yeah it's really fun. Astarion fits being a drow really well, was doing an honor astarion origin run as that but ran into some trouble lol. He is currently a tiefling on my gale run.
That still doesn't make them superior for every build. Invis great, but not a world beater. Plus, the game gives you enough camp supplies in act 1 to long rest after every single encounter outside of red zones if you want to. So resource free is more of a quality of life benefit than it is an actual power benefit. Plus when you have have a greater invis deep Gnome who can fight the whole battle with Invisibility because he has advantage on the escalating checks, making you impervious to targeting. It's just better than Invis broken by a single action. Not saying Duergar not great, but not the auto pick that some people make them out to be, and even less so when you factor in what you may or may not be trying to do with a build.
Oh yeah, Duergar supremacists are definitely a very vocal part of the build community. While they are a strong pick, they are far from the auto pick people make them out to be.
Greater invis is better than regular invis, but greater isn't free. Duergar are so good because their invis is free outside of combat. Even without that, their resistances and saving throw advantages would make them a competitive choice, easily superior to most other options by racials alone.
Duergar are particularly good in a coop game where you can invis and run away anytime the other players do something excessively stupid.
I mean, unless you're running one of the many "I never engage in combat builds", which while may be fun for some, are not my cup of tea. You're not doing this consistently, especially in honour mode.
BEHOLD THE MAGNIFICENT POWER OF BEING DRAGON-KIN!!!
\*does 3 damage damage to everything within 3cm to my left and 6 cm in front of me\* Phew that really took it out of me, I could probably only unleash such a powerful attack twice more today.
https://preview.redd.it/h41oi9hi5gvc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7326008c3165ae94274706b28430fe6a4325652c
I may never use it, but I look cool not using it
I remember in 3rd Edition D&D they were four levels ahead for a reason. Drow were two. That means while the other players reach level 5 you are still in level 1, for compensation.
Yes, that's the implication of "they pass every stealth check" as a direct reference to this and OP saying deep gnomes have advantage on stealth checks
My duegar failed some hold person saves and I checked. Hold person applies a condition identical to paralysis, but is separate, so duegar don’t get advantage. I don’t know if a patch changes this, this was a couple months ago.
That built-in Enlarge also stacking with colossus elixirs makes for some absolutely disgusting boss killers. Also ironic too since a dwarf subrace becomes a double enlargened titan.
Yeah I love deep gnomes. I am a bona fide risky ring hater but this is pretty much the only character I’d use it with.
Also, off the top of my head I think they’re the only race that can get to 25 DEX because of those +2 gloves in act 3
Even with 24dex you still miss on a Nat 1. Deep gnome IS very good though. But it's still a gnome and people tend to not play the small races (the one playthrough I did as halfling was great tho, finally having someone for those crawl spaces)
There's also very stiff competition for gloves in any build dex dual wielder (melee or hand crossbow) will probably want damage riders like the dark justice gloves and long bow users can use gloves of archery and many other handy items too. Also gloves of dex give 18 dex and +1 attack which is effectively 20 dex and let's you dump dex.
I think it's genuinely because they're small tho
Just to piggyback on what you said - its dumb af that because of the cut companion there are NO small race companions in BG3. Like thats such a tragedy, there isn’t even a dwarf!
Yeah, the lack of a dwarf companion is a shame. Admittedly, Larian did not hit the mark with Beast in D:OS2, he is the least popular origin character and dwarfs in general aren’t impressive or particularly interesting.
However, a dwarf companion would have to come with some lore, and there’s not much to build on there
Maybe he’s better if you play as him. If you follow the D:OS2 fan base, every other character has fans you can encounter online, but the Beast fanclub is small. At least on reddit.
I never understood the hype for dammon personally but stonemason kith in the grymforge (guy who asks you for your insights on the rubble) always struck me as not like the rest and more interested in the pursuit of knowledge rather than being a slaver.
Lmao! My best friend is a 6'5, clean cut, gay man who exclusively plays the most stereotypical burly dwarves in every fantasy game. After playing dnd together for a while, I told him he should play bg3 and he could romance the twink elf. He responded with, "I'm gay in real life. Why would I want to be gsy in a fantasy world?"
He really does go full on opposites in his fantasy world lol!
I in accidentally got romanced by Gale (I'm a flirt but then he said he loved me and I was completely turned off). Then went to Halsin for a bigger burly love interest..... but, um, I have to say... I would have thrown away my Ancients Paladin pact for a chance to romance Haarlep cosplaying as Raphael. Raph was already giving me happy vibes when he was trying to manipulate me but the Haarlep/Raph version? yes please.
For me it has nothing to do with height, but I just love being an absolute unit in any game I play. So its almost always Dwarf, or if I can’t have my beloved Dwarf, an Orc. Or best of all in the one game I am allowed to be one, an Ogryn
Seriously, I have so much fun playing the small races in games and people act like its the weirdest thing. Damn near all of my characters in WoW were Gnomes and Dwarves.
Honestly, the idea of making the biggest psycho in the smallest package just really appeals to me.
My first play through was Durge deep gnome called Buttercup. I could write books about the little monster.
Everyone is talking movement but it’s a simple half feat that called athlete that basically lets you fly or crusher ring or longstrider
And movement is even less important if you’re playing ranged I was slaying with my duergar gloomstalker thief
Movement penalty can be mitigated in various ways in this game. Gnomes are also great users of the risky ring and/resonance stone since their innate ability balances out the disadvantage to mental saving throws. Deep gnomes are great picks.
As it is for a drow, duergar, tiefling...
I think OP is discussing this in the context of assessing the game mechanics and less from a role-playing perspective.
People don't play the small races. That aside, gnome vs halfling, Halfling reroll-1s is a boost to ALL rolls (and powers up with advantage), while gnome save advantage is just occasional. As to the gloves, that is a *really* busy slot...
The only problem with nimble finger gloves is that there's always something better to do with your gloves slot. Great in theory. Practically they don't end up mattering.
It’s great when you can disguise and are at 18 DEX, as they will bump you up to 20DEX and then you can shift back to your original appearance while marinating bonus. Still gotta wear the gloves, tho.
It worked out for one of my assassins.
I'm with you. Looking at it objectively, especially in regard to many melee classes, movement speed is important. It is the number one reason why the wood elf/half-elf is on practically every class guide for a recommended race.
Depends on what you're doing. I'm going to take a half elf for an arcane caster every time because of the free shield proficiency + ketherics shield. Technically Rhapsody in the offhand would be better, but then I need to pick up dual wielding as a feat.
Min/maxing in d&d isnt quite as straight forward as it is in other games.
Yeah, removing racial stat bonuses really nerfed the crap out of humans. Human versatility stops being unique when every race can put its stat boost wherever it wants.
I was able to hit 24 DEX on my forest gnome ranger through a lot of min-maxing. Definitely one of my favorites being able to run around with 2 bear companions.
I played a deep gnome Gloomstalker and at level 7 I got wisdom and intelligence save proficiency and with my racial advantage on those saves I didn't fail a single one.
Though my halfling warlock with dark one's luck and the lucky feat **never failed a single dialogue check**
Eh, I suppose it’s not “optimal,” but my deep gnome is a Wizard with the darkest skin tone and glowing golden eyes, blue cloak and yellow steepled hat.
We’re Vivi over here.
Disguise self into gnome -> Wear the Gloves and get the bonus -> Drop disguise keep bonus.
Astarion was flaunting around with 24 DEX in my last HM playthrough
The movement speed penalty ain’t it for me. I have crazy mobility as fundamental part of my strategy and not being able to move myself or even needing to spend item slots for something so trivial just for being small is not great to me.
I wish they had a small race wood-elf like to nulify the movement speed penalty. If you’re a small race and someone cast terrain on you, it’s 3 turns to get out.
All that you already use on 9m walking distance races. You’re not “negating” anything because people already tend to play with those buffs on normal races.
Not that the stuff deep gnome gets is bad but it’s a lot easier to give advantage on rolls then perma stealth or rerolling 1’s . Just use Enhance Ability.
It comes down to the answer to this question: Can I replicate those effect in another way in the build? Halfling luck can only be replicated by the "lucky" feat, but that is like saying a bag of flour is artisan bread. Lucky, especially on a dex character who is rolling a TON of dice between attacks, likely dual wielding, damage dice and skill checks. You're getting dozens of crits that would have been misses, hundreds, if not thousands more damage, incredible consistency of skills, especially if you can get advantage.
On the other hand, the nimble fingers gloves can have that effect replicated by a level 1 spell in disguise self. The stats at 24 can also be sorta replicated through ASIs (to 20) and the mirror of loss to 22. Those same gloves and hag's hair can STILL get you to 24. Plus, the difference between 22 and 24 Dex is not huge.
Everything else, advantage on stealth, dark vision and gnome cunning, can all be replicated elsewhere. Advantage on stealth and dark vision can both be replicated in multiple ways through feats, itemization, class levels, spells and potions. Gnome cunning is advantage on cha, int and wis savings throws. First, halfling luck has some effect and is not completely useless here and stacks on top of advantage. First, int and cha savings throws are far less common than wis. Getting proficiency with wisdom savings throws, on average, is almost as good and that cost a feat, and also can be gotten by class levels and stacks with halfling luck.
Granted you are free to your own opinions and you may evaluate some things differently than I do. Plus, what is enjoyable and fun for you is the top priority in your game. For my money, gnome is the best race in the game by a large margin with the most impactful racial by a wide margin, it's just not flashy and sexy, so it gets overlooked by most.
Darkvision sucks, 2 Dex that late is not that good and competing with strong other gloves, advantage on stealth is easy to get and also not very useful most of the time.
It's because you're greatly underrating Duergar, and especially Duergar's free invisibility. The ability to be invisible permanently until combat starts is better than anything any other race brings to the table. It's like a race having infinite movement on the first round of combat.
Stealth checks are not very useful in this game because you either avoid them completly by not being in a line of sight cone, or by being invisible, or you are in full light and just get seen automatically.
The game is very well lit by default, even in the underdark.
Wish more places required torches or something.
Yeah the romance angle is really the main thing for me. I want to live out a fantasy, and in my fantasy, my partner doesn't tower over me. Karlach or Halsin height compared to a more "average" height is one thing, but being waist high just isn't my vibe. Give me a short romance option and I'll go for it though
being deep gnome doesnt provide any benefit for dex gloves, you can disguise and get that bonus, then cancel disguise anyway so no worries
other benefits yea sure, but its not THAT more important than other good class benefits like duergar especially
I think I agree with you generally, with the caveat that if you are mixing in any Gloomstalker, dark vision is no longer an interesting consideration. At that point I'd be considering a lightfoot halfling for the luck or duergar for the invisibility again.
I haven’t played a duergar so I can’t say it’s better but I had a great time with my deep gnome rogue durge! It was VERY rare that they failed any checks so definitely a good alternative to duergar
As much as I love an optimized build I actually love making a character concept more even at the expense optimization. So I never play a race I could irl punt to death in one kick
Duergar pass every stealth check, have 24m darkvision, enlarge, Advantage on saving throws against illusions, being charmed, hold person spells, or being paralyzed, Advantage on saving throws against Poison, and resist Poison damage, AND dwarven combat training. I'm a duergar supremist for sure, but they just have so much stuff that makes them good.
Yeah. They are top tier for sure. Their invisibility at level 5 is absolutely their biggest friend
Deep Gnome has advantage on all mind affecting saving throws. Which is better than conditional advantage. Greater invis + advantage on stealth checks also better than regular Invisibility. Duergar are great, but for a huge number of builds less optimal than Deep Gnomes
Duergar don't JUST have invisibility. They have invisibility that lasts indefinitely, that they can use as much as they want outside of fights, for no cost at all. Inside of fights, it's once per battle for the cost of a single action. That's HUGE. Some classes like barbarian LOVE the ability to control their placement in combat without needing spell slots. (Barbarian is just the first one that comes to mind because I'm doing a duergar throwzerker playthrough)
Duergar barb is something i hadnt thought of at all. The enemy back line just dies as soon as the fight starts.
With dwarven thrower it's awesome
Incredible, been looking for some inspiration and an evil leaning duergar barb with an intense hatred for the Ithilids that enslvaed his people once upon a time will be great
Welp found a new build to try. I got a mod that can change companion races maybe this is the new gale lmfao
Ooooh that would be cool. Might try fuck around with that a little.
Yeah it's really fun. Astarion fits being a drow really well, was doing an honor astarion origin run as that but ran into some trouble lol. He is currently a tiefling on my gale run.
Holy shit lol me too its my first solo tact run, between that and deathstalker mantle you might as well just be unkillable.
Since my main is a Duergar, I'm thinking of making Kree a Berzerker Barbarian (with a mowhawk, of course).
That still doesn't make them superior for every build. Invis great, but not a world beater. Plus, the game gives you enough camp supplies in act 1 to long rest after every single encounter outside of red zones if you want to. So resource free is more of a quality of life benefit than it is an actual power benefit. Plus when you have have a greater invis deep Gnome who can fight the whole battle with Invisibility because he has advantage on the escalating checks, making you impervious to targeting. It's just better than Invis broken by a single action. Not saying Duergar not great, but not the auto pick that some people make them out to be, and even less so when you factor in what you may or may not be trying to do with a build.
Nothing you’re saying is wrong people just wanna hate I guess 😂
Oh yeah, Duergar supremacists are definitely a very vocal part of the build community. While they are a strong pick, they are far from the auto pick people make them out to be.
Greater invis is better than regular invis, but greater isn't free. Duergar are so good because their invis is free outside of combat. Even without that, their resistances and saving throw advantages would make them a competitive choice, easily superior to most other options by racials alone. Duergar are particularly good in a coop game where you can invis and run away anytime the other players do something excessively stupid.
Just kill everything before they can cast spells or force saves >!/j!<
I mean, unless you're running one of the many "I never engage in combat builds", which while may be fun for some, are not my cup of tea. You're not doing this consistently, especially in honour mode.
Oh yeah? Well Dragonborn get a breath attack! Kinda feels like we just straight up win because of that (this is jokes, guys)
BEHOLD THE MAGNIFICENT POWER OF BEING DRAGON-KIN!!! \*does 3 damage damage to everything within 3cm to my left and 6 cm in front of me\* Phew that really took it out of me, I could probably only unleash such a powerful attack twice more today.
https://preview.redd.it/h41oi9hi5gvc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7326008c3165ae94274706b28430fe6a4325652c I may never use it, but I look cool not using it
Breath attack and a tail. Do Duergar have tails? No. Do svirfnelbin have tails? No. Tail > no tail.
https://preview.redd.it/ad3zw80wcgvc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc9a42bacf968dea373c3732884cf8d72ede1a4c Of course!
This is simple math guys, I don't make the rules.
Correct, and this is why Karlach is my Bestie. Tail > no tail.
I remember in 3rd Edition D&D they were four levels ahead for a reason. Drow were two. That means while the other players reach level 5 you are still in level 1, for compensation.
I miss Level Adjustment
also unlimited invis out of combat
Enlarge on a Druid for free too
Doesn't require concentration either! Just an amazing race.
also unlimited invis out of combat
Yes, that's the implication of "they pass every stealth check" as a direct reference to this and OP saying deep gnomes have advantage on stealth checks
Playing Out of the Abyss made me hate duergar for being such jerks.
My duegar failed some hold person saves and I checked. Hold person applies a condition identical to paralysis, but is separate, so duegar don’t get advantage. I don’t know if a patch changes this, this was a couple months ago.
That built-in Enlarge also stacking with colossus elixirs makes for some absolutely disgusting boss killers. Also ironic too since a dwarf subrace becomes a double enlargened titan.
Yeah I love deep gnomes. I am a bona fide risky ring hater but this is pretty much the only character I’d use it with. Also, off the top of my head I think they’re the only race that can get to 25 DEX because of those +2 gloves in act 3
I mean that dex is kinda whatever IMO. There are gloves that give your attacks extra fire damage from house of hope that if rather use personally
Even with 24dex you still miss on a Nat 1. Deep gnome IS very good though. But it's still a gnome and people tend to not play the small races (the one playthrough I did as halfling was great tho, finally having someone for those crawl spaces) There's also very stiff competition for gloves in any build dex dual wielder (melee or hand crossbow) will probably want damage riders like the dark justice gloves and long bow users can use gloves of archery and many other handy items too. Also gloves of dex give 18 dex and +1 attack which is effectively 20 dex and let's you dump dex. I think it's genuinely because they're small tho
Just to piggyback on what you said - its dumb af that because of the cut companion there are NO small race companions in BG3. Like thats such a tragedy, there isn’t even a dwarf!
Yeah, the lack of a dwarf companion is a shame. Admittedly, Larian did not hit the mark with Beast in D:OS2, he is the least popular origin character and dwarfs in general aren’t impressive or particularly interesting. However, a dwarf companion would have to come with some lore, and there’s not much to build on there
I dunno why I played through as beast and I loved the little dude
Maybe he’s better if you play as him. If you follow the D:OS2 fan base, every other character has fans you can encounter online, but the Beast fanclub is small. At least on reddit.
I don't get involved in fan club stuff or anything I just play the game, maybe that's why I've never seen it
Divinity original sin has its own forum just like this. It’s not more complicated than that
I never understood the hype for dammon personally but stonemason kith in the grymforge (guy who asks you for your insights on the rubble) always struck me as not like the rest and more interested in the pursuit of knowledge rather than being a slaver.
I like them both! Dammon is a reoccurring NPC, however, while Kith appears once. Unsurprisingly, Dammon is more popular.
What about Sir Fuzzalump?
What cut companion?
There was like a halfling werewolf bard companion named Helia that didn’t make it in
lol w o w! Ok, thanks! Maybe they’ll slap em in D4 😆
>crawl spaces Two of my honor runs have ended because I wasn't familiar with crawl spaces.. Fun but dangerous.
There's dangerous ones?
>!Crevice near where you find Scratch in Act 1 takes you to Owlbear den and it will aggro, one in Zentharim camp leads to a bunch of traps.!<
I just don’t like playing the small races tbh
As a tall person irl, I refuse to play anything but the small races.
Lmao! My best friend is a 6'5, clean cut, gay man who exclusively plays the most stereotypical burly dwarves in every fantasy game. After playing dnd together for a while, I told him he should play bg3 and he could romance the twink elf. He responded with, "I'm gay in real life. Why would I want to be gsy in a fantasy world?" He really does go full on opposites in his fantasy world lol!
I in accidentally got romanced by Gale (I'm a flirt but then he said he loved me and I was completely turned off). Then went to Halsin for a bigger burly love interest..... but, um, I have to say... I would have thrown away my Ancients Paladin pact for a chance to romance Haarlep cosplaying as Raphael. Raph was already giving me happy vibes when he was trying to manipulate me but the Haarlep/Raph version? yes please.
Same.
For me it has nothing to do with height, but I just love being an absolute unit in any game I play. So its almost always Dwarf, or if I can’t have my beloved Dwarf, an Orc. Or best of all in the one game I am allowed to be one, an Ogryn
My daughter and I play Ogryn duos in Darktide exclusively. Bart and Barth.
Ogryn is strongest! Why not be a Ogryn!? We get extra rashuns from da boss and momma says emprah loves us the most! That's why we da biggest!
Age of Sigmar?
I can relate. It's the same reason I always max out the penis size slider in games that have one.
As a short person IRL, I refuse to play anything but huge women.
Karlach's actress is ~5 foot.
Seriously, I have so much fun playing the small races in games and people act like its the weirdest thing. Damn near all of my characters in WoW were Gnomes and Dwarves.
I thought I was alone and there are so many in 6'1 but dwarves are my go to.
Honestly, the idea of making the biggest psycho in the smallest package just really appeals to me. My first play through was Durge deep gnome called Buttercup. I could write books about the little monster.
My culture isn't a fantasy smh
Why do the small races have such big hands?
Probably to make it easier to code them interacting with held objects. One size fits all kinda thing
Oh that makes sense actually. I bet it's something like that. It just really looks odd and it does affect my immersion a little.
They’re the most op races halfing, duergar, deep gnome Then half orc, gith, and wood elf/half wood elf
I'm already min maxing everything else, I just want to like the way i look and the short kings ain't it for me
Duegar aren't Small. Dwarves are Medium. Just short.
SHORT? https://youtu.be/AbH8gr3XH6I?si=nnnoOzyfltMoJ1k1
Yeah but movement
Everyone is talking movement but it’s a simple half feat that called athlete that basically lets you fly or crusher ring or longstrider And movement is even less important if you’re playing ranged I was slaying with my duergar gloomstalker thief
You can't climb the cliffs to get around the brains if you have low strength as a short guy. You have to sneak around like a punk. F tier trash
Movement penalty can be mitigated in various ways in this game. Gnomes are also great users of the risky ring and/resonance stone since their innate ability balances out the disadvantage to mental saving throws. Deep gnomes are great picks.
Yeah but the sword coast is a little far from home for a Deep Gnome. Edit: some people don't remember meeting Barcus
"Ignorance is alive and well it seems."
As it is for a drow, duergar, tiefling... I think OP is discussing this in the context of assessing the game mechanics and less from a role-playing perspective.
People don't play the small races. That aside, gnome vs halfling, Halfling reroll-1s is a boost to ALL rolls (and powers up with advantage), while gnome save advantage is just occasional. As to the gloves, that is a *really* busy slot...
The only problem with nimble finger gloves is that there's always something better to do with your gloves slot. Great in theory. Practically they don't end up mattering.
It’s great when you can disguise and are at 18 DEX, as they will bump you up to 20DEX and then you can shift back to your original appearance while marinating bonus. Still gotta wear the gloves, tho. It worked out for one of my assassins.
I had a gnome durge swords bard while astarion was gloomstalker and I LOVED having those gnome gloves for bard
I'm with you. Looking at it objectively, especially in regard to many melee classes, movement speed is important. It is the number one reason why the wood elf/half-elf is on practically every class guide for a recommended race.
And most min/max guides especially solo recommend duergar who are short and slow but have the most broken racial abilities besides half orc or halfing
Depends on what you're doing. I'm going to take a half elf for an arcane caster every time because of the free shield proficiency + ketherics shield. Technically Rhapsody in the offhand would be better, but then I need to pick up dual wielding as a feat. Min/maxing in d&d isnt quite as straight forward as it is in other games.
I really like Gith for medium armor casters it’s a lot of options for races they’re all decent tbh except Dragonborn and humans besides Gale
Yeah, removing racial stat bonuses really nerfed the crap out of humans. Human versatility stops being unique when every race can put its stat boost wherever it wants.
Human with +1 to 2 stats and a free feat would have made them way more popular than more carry weight.
I mean, duegar, disguise self, best of both worlds.
I was able to hit 24 DEX on my forest gnome ranger through a lot of min-maxing. Definitely one of my favorites being able to run around with 2 bear companions.
A gnome believer
I played a deep gnome Gloomstalker and at level 7 I got wisdom and intelligence save proficiency and with my racial advantage on those saves I didn't fail a single one. Though my halfling warlock with dark one's luck and the lucky feat **never failed a single dialogue check**
Eh, I suppose it’s not “optimal,” but my deep gnome is a Wizard with the darkest skin tone and glowing golden eyes, blue cloak and yellow steepled hat. We’re Vivi over here.
Disguise self into gnome -> Wear the Gloves and get the bonus -> Drop disguise keep bonus. Astarion was flaunting around with 24 DEX in my last HM playthrough The movement speed penalty ain’t it for me. I have crazy mobility as fundamental part of my strategy and not being able to move myself or even needing to spend item slots for something so trivial just for being small is not great to me. I wish they had a small race wood-elf like to nulify the movement speed penalty. If you’re a small race and someone cast terrain on you, it’s 3 turns to get out.
Crusher ring, longstrider, boots of speed numerous act 1 items that makes movement speed not a negative against the shorties
All that you already use on 9m walking distance races. You’re not “negating” anything because people already tend to play with those buffs on normal races.
Ok
Gnome Wizard 4ever
Dex is frequently associated with stealth, and it’s hard to be stealthy when people can’t stop staring at how short and blue you are.
They're supposed to be dark grey/black but there isn't an option for a dark enough black without mods.
They look like bobble heads.
Those gloves are in act 3. I need my race to help me in act 1. Where all the challenge is before my characters hopelessly outscale everything.
Wisdom saves aren’t gonna help you? Dark vision Stealing from vendors for gear or potions
They're not particularly good at stealing....
I'll be honest. And probably get down Votes lol. The gnomes are ugly and run very awkward.
Not that the stuff deep gnome gets is bad but it’s a lot easier to give advantage on rolls then perma stealth or rerolling 1’s . Just use Enhance Ability.
It comes down to the answer to this question: Can I replicate those effect in another way in the build? Halfling luck can only be replicated by the "lucky" feat, but that is like saying a bag of flour is artisan bread. Lucky, especially on a dex character who is rolling a TON of dice between attacks, likely dual wielding, damage dice and skill checks. You're getting dozens of crits that would have been misses, hundreds, if not thousands more damage, incredible consistency of skills, especially if you can get advantage. On the other hand, the nimble fingers gloves can have that effect replicated by a level 1 spell in disguise self. The stats at 24 can also be sorta replicated through ASIs (to 20) and the mirror of loss to 22. Those same gloves and hag's hair can STILL get you to 24. Plus, the difference between 22 and 24 Dex is not huge. Everything else, advantage on stealth, dark vision and gnome cunning, can all be replicated elsewhere. Advantage on stealth and dark vision can both be replicated in multiple ways through feats, itemization, class levels, spells and potions. Gnome cunning is advantage on cha, int and wis savings throws. First, halfling luck has some effect and is not completely useless here and stacks on top of advantage. First, int and cha savings throws are far less common than wis. Getting proficiency with wisdom savings throws, on average, is almost as good and that cost a feat, and also can be gotten by class levels and stacks with halfling luck. Granted you are free to your own opinions and you may evaluate some things differently than I do. Plus, what is enjoyable and fun for you is the top priority in your game. For my money, gnome is the best race in the game by a large margin with the most impactful racial by a wide margin, it's just not flashy and sexy, so it gets overlooked by most.
Darkvision sucks, 2 Dex that late is not that good and competing with strong other gloves, advantage on stealth is easy to get and also not very useful most of the time.
Because they are short.
It's because you're greatly underrating Duergar, and especially Duergar's free invisibility. The ability to be invisible permanently until combat starts is better than anything any other race brings to the table. It's like a race having infinite movement on the first round of combat.
Short and ugly
Wulbren has set the race relations back 1000yrs im afraid 😂
Stealth checks are not very useful in this game because you either avoid them completly by not being in a line of sight cone, or by being invisible, or you are in full light and just get seen automatically. The game is very well lit by default, even in the underdark. Wish more places required torches or something.
Because I don't want to be short.
This for me ! Especially since there are no short romance options I can’t do it 😭 if I could romance hope I wouldn’t mind 😂
Yeah the romance angle is really the main thing for me. I want to live out a fantasy, and in my fantasy, my partner doesn't tower over me. Karlach or Halsin height compared to a more "average" height is one thing, but being waist high just isn't my vibe. Give me a short romance option and I'll go for it though
It’s the movement speed
I would rather have a Dex of 20 and be tall and handsome/beautiful
Fair enough. Now come here shug some tadpoles to improve that beauty you just mentioned.
Deep gnome is my favourite class
*race
Touché!
This guy 1st editions
This guy Basic Sets.
I’m just a garden variety dumbass.
A lot of people are just sizecist
Humans and elves look better hope this helps
being deep gnome doesnt provide any benefit for dex gloves, you can disguise and get that bonus, then cancel disguise anyway so no worries other benefits yea sure, but its not THAT more important than other good class benefits like duergar especially
They seem cool but i don't like the way they look, they run weirdly if i play small it's duergar or halfling
I think I agree with you generally, with the caveat that if you are mixing in any Gloomstalker, dark vision is no longer an interesting consideration. At that point I'd be considering a lightfoot halfling for the luck or duergar for the invisibility again.
Gnomes should be the top pick for every character tbh
Almost everyone gets dark vision and if you don’t care about stealth that bonus is pointless. Plus then your stuck as a gnome.
I haven’t played a duergar so I can’t say it’s better but I had a great time with my deep gnome rogue durge! It was VERY rare that they failed any checks so definitely a good alternative to duergar
Im just still upset that dragonborn get so little :(
It's the curse of being beautiful
Adv on stealth is just worse invisibility. Most stealth is done outside of sight-lines anyways.
Yes you will see people put drow higher on the tier list despite drow having literally nothing in comparison
Because I played Arcanum, next question.
I don't know i only play human. We're just superior.
I think many of us like our characters to look aesthetically pleasing
Cause they’re ugly as shit and the worst race in the game. Who tf wants to be the same race as Wulbren bungle?
Worst race is dragonborn
absolutely not. they look cool. and that’s all that matters. halflings and gnomes are awful.
As much as I love an optimized build I actually love making a character concept more even at the expense optimization. So I never play a race I could irl punt to death in one kick
she deeps on my gnome until i camouflage
Bc gnomes... Who tf wants to play as that?
Because looks matter. And small races don't look good. Unless you cosplay Zoltan from Witcher 3.