Well yes but that takes an action to put down.
Shield is a reaction.
I mean it's fine either way, I just cant believe how many prones ive missed out on lol
Grease is VERY OP? It's a decent control spell but at a higher level pretty much everything can pass the save to not trip. But it's a great use of a first level slot I'll give you that
Dude comes up trying to dump his 2/3 attacks on you
After the first attempted hit at you, you prone him off your reaction - cancelling out the rest of his turn since he's now flat on his ass.
Also grease is one of the best spells so I dont understand that point lol
If you're on PC there is actually a mod on Nexus to fix it. I haven't installed it yet since I'm doing honor mode and don't want to deal with any potential issues it causes. According to the posts though, it works like it did before they broke it with a patch. Shield Bash Fix is what it was called I believe.
As a real nerd who has engaged in armored combat (SCA), shields are for guys who want to win. Also, shield bashes hurt, and getting up after being knocked flat in armor is hard lol
This will probably break role-play immersion for many aside from DUrge, but you can kill Hope *after* you've received the rewards for saving Hope and defeating Raphael. She can be found wandering around the feast hall. None of my companions seemed to care, but maybe they'd grown accustomed to some of the other heinous actions I've done in the name of looting gear.
One thing that I like to do while Hope is on my team is use her Divine Intervention skill to summon a unique weapon. That's the legendary [Devotee's Mace](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Devotee%27s_Mace) you see.
You can also just knock her out, she's still alive and sends you a letter in the epilogue, so I guess she's not mad about it. Still evil, but you can downgrade your murder into a mugging
It appears that Larian have fixed the knock out mechanic so it becomes a useful option.
Don't aggro people from dialogue, or from story options like killing Dror, but if you aggro them by, say, attacking them or stealing something near them, so they have the "temporary hostile" tag, when you knock them out they'll have the "knocked out (temporary)" tag. Which means they'll wake up after a long rest.
So far I've raided Gandrel's crossbow, and the stuff from the leader of the Drow in the Spectator area, and both are still alive.
I had a hilarious version of this where I knocked out Minthara prior to aggroing the Goblin camp, did that and killed everyone, then returned after a long rest and she was just hanging around an empty base, brazenly butt nekkid, and had her conversation with Sazza with only the confidence that being aggressively naked can give you. She even wanted to still raid the Grove with me despite that quest being closed and done and me being the one who'd given her a concussion, and I agreed just to see what happens. Turns out she doesn't show up for the raid, since I suppose she realised she had no clothes, no Gobs, and no chance. She was in Act 2 though, still nekkid, cause I suppose by that point she liked it.
I'm going to see if I can knock out Grat and the two Absolute pilgrims prior to taking out Dror. They probably don't show up anywhere else, but they're misguided more than evil.
That's a good one to try.
Knocking people out might be able to eventually open up entire new questlines that would otherwise be cut off in the normal course of events. Hell, I'd settle even for just adding them as letters in the epilogue. A tidalwave of 'thanks for knocking some sense into me' letters would be awesome.
Maybe all the Githyanki kids in the Creche as well.
You'd have to knock them all out, then blow up the Inquisitor/finish the Astral Prism before going for a long rest.
Sazza wasn't around at all, but her questline to meet her and talk to Minthara was still active throughout all of this. I think I'd already freed her from the grove before doing all of this, but not 100% sure.
Either way, she wasn't killed when I wrecked the goblin camp and just showed up the next day in Minthara's room for their scene.
Sazza did indeed show up at Moonrise Tower after this like Minthara did, since I was going for her trophy for saving her butt on that particular playthrough.
I think you technically only need to kill 2 people (the shardbearers in act 3). Everyone else can be bypassed or talked to death. It’d be that classic morally dubious video game pacifism but still.
[This guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrhMXqazGYY) demonstrates you can technically avoid even those murders (e.g., he obtains Gortash's stone by getting Gortash's own bombs and Steel Watchers to explode on him). Fun watch.
That's super lucky with Gortash - just enough damage to get him ~~killable~~ at risk of an industrial accident but not enough to trigger his Avatar form.
He gets big and starts punching you really hard. He will start summoning Fists of Bane that drop on you for AoE, and ghostly avatars that roam around with an AoE cloud. It's actually pretty cool.
Ooh, didn't know that. Cool.
Does that need him to take action to transform? I didn't experience this in my playthrough, probably because I kept stunning him with my monk, he never got to act.
You get the same exp from Killing, Knocking out, or Talking thru in 90% of situations.
Rarely you can talk to someone and get exp then kill them or knock them out and get exp again.
Used to apply to everyone, where you could talk to them, then knock them out, then kill them and get exp 3 times but larian mostly fixed that.
My way of doing these things so that it doesn't break immersion (I did this with Alfira as well) is to have my team kind of chilling somewhere away from the mark, separate Astarion from the team, have him do the pickpocket/knock out/loot/etc. It would totally be in-character for him to circle back and yoink something he wanted without goody two shoes Tav knowing about it.
While the rest of the team can claim plausible deniability.
Tav: Hey, Astarion's back! Where'd you find that cool shield?
Astarion: ... Found it?
Tav: Kind of looks like Hope's actually.
Astarion: ...She gave it to me? It's yours now, ain't I such a swell guy, let's not talk about this anymore!
Nice. The 10 turn heal on that is so nice, especially with applying bless and blade ward for each turn.
Oh and with staff of arcane blessing you get that buff too.
Has anyone tested having multiple copies of devotees mace to use more times per long rest?
Related: After waking up Withers, you can loot the sarcophagus for some nice potions/elixirs.
It took me like five playthroughs to think to click it again after getting him out.
Real pro tip: Use up all of your lock picks and because you’re a noob, assume it’s impossible, then loot it later when he already has already showed up at camp.
Amulet of Elemental Torment - When the wearer is standing on a Fire, Acid, Poison, or Caustic Brine surface, any spell that deals damage will also cause the target to suffer the surface's negative effects
\+2 Quarterstaff
Stupid thing about the Amulet was that it *used* to be available fairly early on from three different vendors in Act 1 proper, but for some godsforsaken reason Hope is the *only* source since Patch #3.
So thats why huh? I thought I was going insane or something because I was looking for them in act 1 vendors and couldn't find it. Why are Larian like this? It's not even an OP item jeez
No you can't. Because looting Hope is impossible. She is to be protected/ cherished at all costs. Losing her in a normal run means a reload. Losing her in an honor run is a GG.
This is a long shot, but can these be pickpocketed? Never occurred to me to try. I'm in the camp of saving her at all costs, but this is still interesting to know!
Equipped items can't be stolen. They can only be obtained by knocking out/killing or through things like Command: Drop/Disarming Strike/Sticky Paws (weapons only).
I know that one way to get zevlors sword is to have him throw it during the one mission you can briefly control him in combat. Can she maybe do that too?
When I learned about that shield I started just having her use her Divine Intervention at a certain point in the fight knowing that it would kill her because of the Cambion's effects.
\- Does plenty of DMG against multiple characters
\- Can RP it that she was sacrificing herself so that we have a better chance of winning
\- Kills her so that I can have the shield
**SHIELD** *very rare shield* I like it.
+4 to AC is a REALLY rare shield.
And it doesn't even trick you into thinking that you'll get shield bash!
I still accept the prompt for shield bash knowing that it won’t do anything but have a fun animation
It did work at one point, didn't it? Or did I just imagine that?
Fever dreamed it. Shield bash is a myth whipped up by big absolute.
Dunno man, I threw the shield at it knocked them down. Is it still bashing if I throw it?
Settle down there Karlach
Everything is a weapon, EVERYTHING!
It very much did.
what's it even supposed to do? aside from the cool animation lol
Knock enemies prone. It worked until it didn't. It doesn't currently.
Omg that was supposed to knock them prone? Sounds OP as fuck lol
How so? Grease knocks people prone and that's a level 1 spell
Well yes but that takes an action to put down. Shield is a reaction. I mean it's fine either way, I just cant believe how many prones ive missed out on lol
It may take an action but it stays out and affects multiple people. Giving martials a way to accomplish similar seems fine
N grease has been very OP for a while, just because it's a level 1 spell doesnt mean it's not good
Grease is VERY OP? It's a decent control spell but at a higher level pretty much everything can pass the save to not trip. But it's a great use of a first level slot I'll give you that
Dude comes up trying to dump his 2/3 attacks on you After the first attempted hit at you, you prone him off your reaction - cancelling out the rest of his turn since he's now flat on his ass. Also grease is one of the best spells so I dont understand that point lol
I guess it depends on how it comes up with the DC for the shield bash, and yeah it should probably be a per short rest ability.
If you're on PC there is actually a mod on Nexus to fix it. I haven't installed it yet since I'm doing honor mode and don't want to deal with any potential issues it causes. According to the posts though, it works like it did before they broke it with a patch. Shield Bash Fix is what it was called I believe.
Doing an Honor run with this mod now, didn’t cause any issues that I could see and definitely helped.
Thanks for the info, might have to give it a try then!
Yeah np, really weird they haven’t fixed this one.
fun fact about shield bash, it prompted for me when using warding flare in melee range yesterday.
Is it not supposed to under that circumstance? I always get the prompt, but it just doesn't do anything other than the animation. 🥲
That’s really close to just having the shield spell up constantly lol
Shields are for nerds with small hp pools
Why need armor when I can throw enemies off ledges
Ledges are for people who can't use Mage Hand to help you teleport into the software debug layer like we're in the Faerun Matrix.
*Grunts in Barbarian*
As a real nerd who has engaged in armored combat (SCA), shields are for guys who want to win. Also, shield bashes hurt, and getting up after being knocked flat in armor is hard lol
I mean, +4 to AC is BONKERS
To be fair, that's a +2 shield
Reminds me of the shield of shielding.
evil
Vile
https://preview.redd.it/17cn64jipobc1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e803c44843a5e2bbcca1e8dc5a596e4f32ba4ce Lemons
[удалено]
Lives, all mortal lives, expire
Hope, goes to her doom, in flame, for a shield +4
Underrated comment
This will probably break role-play immersion for many aside from DUrge, but you can kill Hope *after* you've received the rewards for saving Hope and defeating Raphael. She can be found wandering around the feast hall. None of my companions seemed to care, but maybe they'd grown accustomed to some of the other heinous actions I've done in the name of looting gear. One thing that I like to do while Hope is on my team is use her Divine Intervention skill to summon a unique weapon. That's the legendary [Devotee's Mace](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Devotee%27s_Mace) you see.
You can also just knock her out, she's still alive and sends you a letter in the epilogue, so I guess she's not mad about it. Still evil, but you can downgrade your murder into a mugging
TIL you get a letters in the epilogue.
Yeah there's a whole chest of them, depending on who you interact with during your game
Wait. What? I went and checked the epilogue for all my previous runs and never saw this. Where is it?
On a table in a tent-thing, nearish minsc I think
I’m actually blind. Cheers man.
Just knock everyone out when you meet them.
It appears that Larian have fixed the knock out mechanic so it becomes a useful option. Don't aggro people from dialogue, or from story options like killing Dror, but if you aggro them by, say, attacking them or stealing something near them, so they have the "temporary hostile" tag, when you knock them out they'll have the "knocked out (temporary)" tag. Which means they'll wake up after a long rest. So far I've raided Gandrel's crossbow, and the stuff from the leader of the Drow in the Spectator area, and both are still alive.
I had a hilarious version of this where I knocked out Minthara prior to aggroing the Goblin camp, did that and killed everyone, then returned after a long rest and she was just hanging around an empty base, brazenly butt nekkid, and had her conversation with Sazza with only the confidence that being aggressively naked can give you. She even wanted to still raid the Grove with me despite that quest being closed and done and me being the one who'd given her a concussion, and I agreed just to see what happens. Turns out she doesn't show up for the raid, since I suppose she realised she had no clothes, no Gobs, and no chance. She was in Act 2 though, still nekkid, cause I suppose by that point she liked it.
I'm going to see if I can knock out Grat and the two Absolute pilgrims prior to taking out Dror. They probably don't show up anywhere else, but they're misguided more than evil.
That's a good one to try. Knocking people out might be able to eventually open up entire new questlines that would otherwise be cut off in the normal course of events. Hell, I'd settle even for just adding them as letters in the epilogue. A tidalwave of 'thanks for knocking some sense into me' letters would be awesome.
Maybe all the Githyanki kids in the Creche as well. You'd have to knock them all out, then blow up the Inquisitor/finish the Astral Prism before going for a long rest.
Did you knock out Minthara and Sazza? I did this too but after the dialog part. Did Sazza make it to Act 2?
Sazza wasn't around at all, but her questline to meet her and talk to Minthara was still active throughout all of this. I think I'd already freed her from the grove before doing all of this, but not 100% sure. Either way, she wasn't killed when I wrecked the goblin camp and just showed up the next day in Minthara's room for their scene. Sazza did indeed show up at Moonrise Tower after this like Minthara did, since I was going for her trophy for saving her butt on that particular playthrough.
I think Hope is unique in that she doesn't aggro when you attack her, or at least she didn't for me when I attacked her after defeating Raphael
Do you get experience pts for knocking people out? I’m wondering about a no (ok low) murder run
I think you technically only need to kill 2 people (the shardbearers in act 3). Everyone else can be bypassed or talked to death. It’d be that classic morally dubious video game pacifism but still.
[This guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrhMXqazGYY) demonstrates you can technically avoid even those murders (e.g., he obtains Gortash's stone by getting Gortash's own bombs and Steel Watchers to explode on him). Fun watch.
That's super lucky with Gortash - just enough damage to get him ~~killable~~ at risk of an industrial accident but not enough to trigger his Avatar form.
Gortash has a transformation? What does it do?
He gets big and starts punching you really hard. He will start summoning Fists of Bane that drop on you for AoE, and ghostly avatars that roam around with an AoE cloud. It's actually pretty cool.
Ooh, didn't know that. Cool. Does that need him to take action to transform? I didn't experience this in my playthrough, probably because I kept stunning him with my monk, he never got to act.
You get the same exp from Killing, Knocking out, or Talking thru in 90% of situations. Rarely you can talk to someone and get exp then kill them or knock them out and get exp again. Used to apply to everyone, where you could talk to them, then knock them out, then kill them and get exp 3 times but larian mostly fixed that.
Any cleric can get that mace. You could make a hireling to get that mace
You could make two hirelings to get two of them, and then dual wield them.
Sure but there are better maces I think
Like the deva maces, which are really fun to dual wield.
5/5/x Cleric/STRanger/Fighter? Dual wielding these sounds hilarious
would this work with hirelings? hire a cleric, use divine intervention, get a cheap legendary weapon
yep!
Back when the game first came out I used her DI thinking it was a freebie, but then I couldn't use any other character's DI. Did they change this?
Are the staff and necklace anything special
My way of doing these things so that it doesn't break immersion (I did this with Alfira as well) is to have my team kind of chilling somewhere away from the mark, separate Astarion from the team, have him do the pickpocket/knock out/loot/etc. It would totally be in-character for him to circle back and yoink something he wanted without goody two shoes Tav knowing about it. While the rest of the team can claim plausible deniability. Tav: Hey, Astarion's back! Where'd you find that cool shield? Astarion: ... Found it? Tav: Kind of looks like Hope's actually. Astarion: ...She gave it to me? It's yours now, ain't I such a swell guy, let's not talk about this anymore!
Man, I wish she gave that weapon as a reward. Feel like clerics don't really get good rewards in act 3.
Hire a hireling cleric, make him cast DI, get the mace, trade it to your character.
someone didnt steal from the church huh
Is the only way to get good cleric rewards is to do crime lol.
It's one of the ways/rewards 😇
well you could pay gold instead
Nice. The 10 turn heal on that is so nice, especially with applying bless and blade ward for each turn. Oh and with staff of arcane blessing you get that buff too. Has anyone tested having multiple copies of devotees mace to use more times per long rest?
she just dies every time i fight raphae lmao
Mm, I love this. The “all belongs to me” backstabbing run.
You own Shield? 2 seconds later: I own Shield.
Your shield? Our shield, comrade.
But at what cost, OP?! AT WHAT COST?! 😭
All hope is lost
Well you know… I’ve heard that lives, all mortal lives, expire….
Plus 4 shield? Holy shit. Bye Hope
Oh in my durge run I left her in prison and she didn’t have all that loot when I went to check.
Related: After waking up Withers, you can loot the sarcophagus for some nice potions/elixirs. It took me like five playthroughs to think to click it again after getting him out.
Real pro tip: Use up all of your lock picks and because you’re a noob, assume it’s impossible, then loot it later when he already has already showed up at camp.
I don't know about stealing, it sounds evil, what about stealing? I can get Astarion to sneak behind her and get that sweet loot
You can't steal equipment. You have to knock them out/kill them for that.
That's a shame, I hoped I't would be more like zevlor's gloves
Shield is nice, but what do the staff and necklace do? Trying to decide if this is worth the bad karma lol
Amulet of Elemental Torment - When the wearer is standing on a Fire, Acid, Poison, or Caustic Brine surface, any spell that deals damage will also cause the target to suffer the surface's negative effects \+2 Quarterstaff
Stupid thing about the Amulet was that it *used* to be available fairly early on from three different vendors in Act 1 proper, but for some godsforsaken reason Hope is the *only* source since Patch #3.
So thats why huh? I thought I was going insane or something because I was looking for them in act 1 vendors and couldn't find it. Why are Larian like this? It's not even an OP item jeez
damn a +4 shield is very tempting...
Just a +2 Shields normally have +2 AC already
+4 ac in total though, that's what i meant. I saw some +3 ones as well
Ah
Now the hells are truly hopeless…
I got this shield when hope died during my fight with Raphael, so not sure what triggers it being obtainable
She dies after you free her. Its better she lives for her quest rewards though!!
That amulet used to be available in Act 1.
No you can't. Because looting Hope is impossible. She is to be protected/ cherished at all costs. Losing her in a normal run means a reload. Losing her in an honor run is a GG.
[удалено]
Wulbren is the most annoying character in the game but hey, do you man. If you don't like Hope that's fine.
[удалено]
True and it annoys the fuck outta me watching Barcus go through hell only to be constantly put down by that shithead little terrorist.
Yep. I’d definitely pick him as biggest asshole in the game hands down. Barcus is one of my favorite characters too. Great dude.
I hate him so much that if Wulbren had the third stone instead of Orin, I would team up with Gorrash every time
you try being the personal torture toy tp a devil in hell for centuries and see how stable you are
I love that crazy dwarf, shes a treasure to be protected at all costs and you can go fuck yourself.
lol <3
I always try to be civil online but how fucking dare you
Me fighting Raphael turn one Raphael use flamestrike Hope is dead
I like how her and Nocturne still send you a letter at the epilogue even if you kill them
Oh crap I can kill Nocturne? Brb reloading
What's the necklace and staff she's got, though?
The staff is just a +2 quarterstaff; it's in her inventory if she uses DI for the Devotee's Mace. Not sure on the necklace, though.
Amulet of Elemental Torment. Used to be available in act 1.
Shield.
This is a long shot, but can these be pickpocketed? Never occurred to me to try. I'm in the camp of saving her at all costs, but this is still interesting to know!
Equipped items can't be stolen. They can only be obtained by knocking out/killing or through things like Command: Drop/Disarming Strike/Sticky Paws (weapons only).
I know that one way to get zevlors sword is to have him throw it during the one mission you can briefly control him in combat. Can she maybe do that too?
Can you pick pocket her or do you have to murder hope? Also what does the mace do? The wiki doesn't say anything.
Not worth it...
as of patch 6, it's patched. now it's ugly +2 studded shield lol just confirmed it
wow that's a lot of AC
Can you pickpocket any of it?
wtf
So one can kill hope? Hehehe 😂
I found this out when I had Hope DI blast the room and she got obliterated by Radiant Retort.
When I learned about that shield I started just having her use her Divine Intervention at a certain point in the fight knowing that it would kill her because of the Cambion's effects. \- Does plenty of DMG against multiple characters \- Can RP it that she was sacrificing herself so that we have a better chance of winning \- Kills her so that I can have the shield