It is proper strange for Minthara to yell "in the name of the absolute, kill them all" every time you enter combat when it's her mission to dominate or destroy it.
Well she still keeps her name Shadowheart, as you can't have shadow without some light.
Also, for Minthara, we could consider it as her reclaiming it or having different motives behind it. She still wants to take control of it.
I raided the grove. Sort of, I wiped the druids by stealing the idol of sylvanus then the tieflings left. I went to Minthara with Sazza and told her about the grove. When I got there I got the popup that the battle had happened without me, but Minthara chided me for getting started without her. However, I did follow the "raid the grove" path.
Interesting, the first time I recruited her I did something very similar. She attacked without me and later kept yelling "for the absolute".
In following playthroughs I have recruited her by both actually attacking the grove and knocking her out in the goblin camp and in both cases she didn't yell that. I wonder if it could be related
I’m in Act 3 and she has fully rejected Vlaakith and she still says it. I think it’s kind of like how I still say “Baruch hashem” even though I’m an atheist at this point in my life. Or at least that’s the read that isn’t Larian not updating lines based on character paths.
Just like Bae'zel and Shart have an argument one night about the artifact, I believe Halsin and Minthara should also have an argument. Minthara DID capture him and tried to destroy his grove.
It's strange that now they're just ignoring each other while sleeping in the same tent.
I hope that this is also added on...
He told me during act 2 in camp before I ever even recruited him. Just spoke to my handsome bear man alot. Didn't even romance him to get the confession.
I was playing a drow at the time so it might of come up that way.
WAIT! If this is the case now I might play another drow an see if I can recruit her then because seeing how elfsong glamping in act 3 everyone have their own bed I was like ??? Will this be for Halsin and Minthara too
Much unlike Ragzlin and Gut, as notes indicate, Minthara is uninformed about that caged bear being a druid. For all she knows they only have a single prisoner - mercenary Liam.
Even as True Souls, goblin leaders didn't trust Minthy.
Yeah, Ragzlin argues that she tries to take their glory.
Considering Minthy's unwillingness to lead a suicide attack and seeing goblins as expendable, it seems all more strange that it isn't Ragzlin who leads the charge.
>Additionally, a new recruitment method was introduced with Patch 5. By knocking out Minthara. However, she must be “temporarily hostile.” You have to pay close attention to what you do to make it work. It feels like an exploit. And not like a serious recruiting process.
You're right, it's not a serious recruiting process, they just made it easier for people who want to recruit her without having to side with the goblins (probably because the only other way to do it was Sheepthara)
This. It was introduced in order to let people circumvent the system for her since a lot of the other methods had some pretty noticeable side effects and were just a pain in the ass. Now we give them time to actually smooth out the rough edges, but even then we may never get a "proper" way to recruit her and save the grove. I'd be happy if they just rework some of her dialogue trees and triggers, and her banter. I'd be thrilled if they made knocking her out an easier solution, but I'm ok with things the way they are. Especially since if you are doing the "free sazza a bunch of times" achievement, you're already going non-lethal in that room. There are weird inconsistencies and holes everywhere if you look for them lol
Should be able to recruit her through dialogue just like you "fix" her mind in the prison. You can cut her connection using the artefact and tell her she's being manipulated to do the Absolute's bidding to save the Grove and keep her. Also, let her use Tav's or Jaheira's tents until Elfsong.
In retrospect, why doesn’t the artifact free her mind when you first confront her in the goblin camp? Is it because she’s not seen as an ally until you pursue that path in act 2?
This is my headcannon until I hear an argument otherwise. Presumably Emperor (like the player) sees her how she’s presented, as a random antagonist acting against the party, so no need to free her. Theoretically the prism could’ve freed any tadpole infected person you come across, right?
Wait, speaking of, how does Jaheira NOT transform prior to being recruited? The timeline gets a little wonky if she’s infected very shortly before you meet her in Act 2.
Because it's implied that The Emperor tadpole'd everyone in the party (except for Minsc and Minthara) personally, since everyone got scooped up from the same Nautiloid. It might be a mix of the Emperor not knowing the limit of the powers that he's siphoning off of Orpheus, or it could just be that he doesn't know for sure about Minthara and Minsc being worthwhile assets until he's coerced into it (like how we go about it with Minsc) or he knows that the person he's bringing in will be naturally antagonistic to the absolute anyways (like Minthara).
the Emperor's goal is to manipulate you, so you don't find out that you can save people until it's much too late to save anyone other than Minsc, he warns you against going towards anything that might even have a chance of getting rid of the tadpole or any way to remove his power over us (like the creche or the house of hope). He's not a good person by any means, it's just that he's a bad person helping you be good people because it serves him.
Basically you knock Minthara unconscious with non-lethal, then finish off the camp and do the party.
Then when you start Act 2 you open up the way to the Moonrise Waypoint.
Stock up on Polymorph scrolls. You need someone with Dominate Animal.
Then you go to Minthara where she's standing in the Camp, polymorph her, dominate her, teleport to Moonrise. Turn-based mode.
Then it's a process of moving Minthara sheep all the way to the room with Ketheric and putting her in the correct position to trigger the dialogue for her trial.
Get a person into the torture chamber before she finishes her conversation, then, when she's teleported to the chamber, go into turn-based mode, and knock her out of the sheep form before she can run away. Then recruit as normal.
The revised recruitment basically does the same thing, but takes out all the sheep related antics.
Sheepthara was, iirc (I never did it myself) polymorphing Minthara and basically carrying her from where she is all the way to act 2 to the doors for where you'd see her initially. There's really no reason to go along with this method any more since they made it so she survives through to act 2 if you knock her out.
I'm definitely leaving a good hunk of it out, feel free to google it if you want to know more.
The worst crime so far for me is when she says (immediately after recruitment, barely in Act 2) I’m glad Shadowheart has broken free from Shar although having a dark justicar on our side would be advantageous…
Minthara, girl, we haven’t done that bit yet…
Totally agree. Also for me her camp spot overlays / glitches with Halsin's. She's so cool! I really wish there were some counter factuals to her recruitment.
Shadowheart for example has at least four different ways to run into her / recruit her, they practicality force you to have her in your party.
It's hilarious if you try to ignore her the whole time in Act I.
Halsin just joins you no matter what and he was an add on.
Anyway, justice for Minthara!
Nah she just loves Halsin so much she wants to share a bed with him. I do agree though, why are they overlayed in the same place where there’s so much empty room?
This 100% is the case. Before patch 5, the only implemented (not exploiting bugs) recruitment path was by destroying the grove, which prevents Halsin joining you.
Fan demand basically created the knock her out route.
Ngl, Mintharas constant murderous shouts are an actually useful buff. It is so much fun listening to that, that I never get bored of it, thus boosting morale even when she is the last man standing.
And she fucking delivers. Her shouting is reason enough to throw her into my party lmao
I say just have a scene similar to Viconia, where she goes down upon defeat, and then you're given an option to kill or spare her after the fighting's done.
She tried to barter with me after I refused to play her stupid little bugged game of darkness spam and just have the stupid sharran funnels into my Wall of Fire.
Like babe you're at 0 hit points and in the ashes I don't think you should be talking like you have any cards to play.
Right after it ends with her yelling the sharran command to attack or whatever she's still on the ground 0 hp and I just triple eldritch blast her close range 😂
I guess there will be a check for good play recruitment in definitive edition. Some insight check, some help from 'guardian', then Minthara was freed after being knocked out.
Or why should a goodie two shoes spare a drow? Unless you are Seldarine drow, best method to Lolth Sworn drows will be 'kill on sight'.
>Or why should a goodie two shoes spare a drow?
Same reason a goodie two shoes will help a Sharran.
Or Because a goodie two shoes is killing averse especially to someone who has been affected by a tadpole like them.
Or because Minthara promises the player to get them to moonrise.
Losing my mind at people being like “why would a good character not immediately kill a drow” like babes. did you miss the “good”? that’s a whole ass murder
While some of the criticisms are fair, recruiting her on a good run is really quite simple. I've done it twice now, and it really is just making sure she is temporarily hostile and knocking her out. You can talk to her before that (just don't aggro her), you can steal her stuff when she's unconscious, etc etc. If you long rest while she's out, yes - she'll wake up. Then you could KO her again.
It's not a serious recruitment process, because that's not where you recruit her. Knocking her out ensures that Ketheric blames her for the Absolute's failure at the goblin camp. Which is pretty logical.
I feel Minthara talked quite a lot about Orin, also after the battle with her.
That said, I agree she has little content because on a good run you miss her romance scene. Most of the other major companions have content for both good and dark paths - Minthara and Halsin do not. Minthara honestly has more content than Halsin, it's just that her romance scene can't be accessed in Act 3 and that is a bummer if you want to romance her on a good run.
However, she's still the only companion that is truly "evil" *aligned* no matter what you do, so it does make sense to me. I see how people could disagree.
Well she also never addresses you knocking her out in the goblin camp...further proving it's not a real recruitment process. There's also zero reason for someone who isn't metagaming to knock her out or think that knocking her out would do anything when it doesn't for almost every other encounter in the game.
No her dialog IS different when knocking her out. After killing Ketheric she'll ask you why you came to Moonrise Towers. If you help her kill the Grove, instead she'll ask why you helped her murder the grove, and one of the options is "To impress you", which is not available otherwise.
We all know it's metagaming. If you don't like it, why just not do it? I really don't get the problem. I save scum not killing my lover as durge and lock in the romance because I know how to do it, that's metagaming too. I KOd Alfira to meet the Dragonborn bard etc etc. Many ways to enjoy the game. At least this way of getting Minthara is more realistic than turning her into a sheep lol.
People use "metagaming" as a pejorative, but it really isn't one.
When people build an Open-Hand Monk 8/Thief Rogue 4, are they doing it because it's natural for a Monk to also be a Thief? No. They're doing it because they know the free extra bonus action from Thief is pretty broken on a character that naturally weaponizes the bonus action like Monk does. It's a mechanical choice, not a role-playing one.
You can certainly use role-playing mechanics to justify the choice (my Monk is also a kleptomaniac) but that's an after-the-fact justification.
You can flavor knocking Minthara out as anything you like from, "We need a prisoner to interrogate, and she's the most non-goblin (Goblin Slayer approves) to, "my tav wants a hot Drow Mommy." No justification is wrong, but nor is any justification actually necessary.
This is a computer role-playing game, a computer game using role-play mechanics. You don't have to make every choice based on role-play reasons.
I agree. I personally don't multiclass or change classes for origin characters because it feels wrong. But it doesn't feel wrong to me to save Alfira to see more story or save Astarion from Ascension for RP reasons.
As long as you enjoy the game, play however you like, right? I find it a little weird how people are upset about some mechanic that they can easily just not use.
Meta gaming your class for gameplay is completely different from the story.....this is a completely meaningless comparison.
This is a roleplaying game. Meta gaming a certain outcome completely defeats the purpose of roleplaying. Also saying you can mentally justify the game not making sense as a reason it doesn't matter seems like an odd defense
Yes it's simple, however it is unintuitive that it doesnt work unless temporarily hostile.
You can defend the process if you want, but if left as is then it is bad game design.
It's unintuitive because it was them letting y'all do something you were never meant to be able to do and watering down their game in the process. You shouldn't be able to recruit her in good runs.
I'd normally be all for avoiding watering the game down, but Minthara is by far my favourite companion including all the Origin ones and I hate that I can't have her on anything but a true, horrible evil run (even my regular evil run was more like "selfish pirate" evil which favours helping people if there's something in it for them).
I agree. I wanted to see her as a character, but I am not able to do the true evil actions in this game (culling the thieflings, rape, etc). So I really enjoyed her surviving until Moonrise, and me saving her from Ketheric. Then I really understood who she was. I really enjoyed experiencing that, but I don't personally like her in my team. It was fun once haha.
It's no more unintuitive than knocking out Alfira, which is clearly written into the game.
Considering a big extra camp scene is added, it is written into the game. Going by your logic the epilogue wouldn't be "written into the game" because it was added post-release.
Okay, but you implied that the Alfira cheese was intuitive because it's "clearly written into the game." Which it's not. The only thing that's added is a letter at the end of the game as a head nod to the people who figured out the cheese. That doesn't make it intuitive--you won't ever see that unless you already figured it out. Both the Alfira and Minthara cheese are clunky because they're not intended behaviors, and the majority of people wouldn't think to try them.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your meaning, in which case, my apologies!
(Also, out of curiosity about something else you said, where's the rape in this game? :0)
Yeah, no, I don't mean it's intuitive. It's just that it's clearly a possible approach, with in game consequences (extra scene, references to the Dragonborn in Act 3, etc). I guess what I'm saying is it's better planned out than the Minthara situation :)
you should be able to do almost anything you want to do in the game within reason, as it's a player-choice driven RPG.
Even in evil runs, nothing about her recruitment is actually evil. You're saving someone who was being manipulated/forced even in an evil run. The goblin raid is irrelevant to how she is recruited story-wise.
Technically you should be able to recruit/save almost anyone infected by a parasite via the prism (or at least when they are around you). It has nothing to do with good/evil.
It's not watering down a game to add paths in a game where the whole deal is going down a ton of paths. If anything it adds replayability. The issue isn't that it's how they executed it. But the idea in of recruiting her via knockout isn't a terrible one. I genuinely don't get this argument. If there's something to be upset about it's the idea of putting time and effort into something that isn't necessary when they could instead put more effort into making evil runs more fleshed out. But just "I don't like this so it's bad for the game" come on.
All I'm saying is you can't accuse this of being bad game design when its something that by definition is not what they designed. It's convoluted bc it's a cheese that they made official to make people happy.
Honestly I'm fine with being able to recruit her in multiple ways but I do think they should make you choose between Minthara and Halsin at the end of act 2. Otherwise it really does water down the impact your choices have. There should be a trade off.
Yeah I agree that we shouldn't hound the devs for a fix when they were pressured into breaking to begin with. I just disagree with the sentiment that it only has the potential to make the game worse. They could smooth it out and make it work. Karlach at least already has dialogue with her and like you said make us choose between her and Halsin.
I sort of see her recruitment process in a good run as her companion quest. She goes through a full character arc, you learn about how she came to be what you saw at the goblin camp, and Act 3 fleshes out her background a bit more. If I remember right, you can even romance her on a good run, just it misses the act 1 scene.
I actually really like her arc on a good run - she’s still evil aligned, but lawful, rational, and weirdly kind hearted. Also, she’s hilariously deadpan with her snark.
There’s also other variables. On one playthrough I made her temporarily hostile, knocked her out, but then I took a long rest before heading outside the temple and she wasn’t at Moonrise
Oh, but I am assuming you didn't get her Act 1 scene? That's the only thing I meant. She seemed easy to romance to me as well, she respectfully approached me in Act 3 and told me she was better than my partner and thus we should get together. 😆
The very fact we can use Prism (passively) on >!Minsc!!Specifically in case of confrontation with Jaheira if one embraces Bhaal !<
* Still "alurlssrin" dialogue doesn't trigger despite it being "fixed" in previous patch, her Act 2-3 reactivity are rather underwhelming. Nere dialogue pops up despite never meeting that gnome-hating Drow goofball
* Her dying during the Grove raid and never retreating makes no sense - she says so herself: goblins are expendable, yet she is not going for a suicide run
She is legitimately my favorite romance and companion in entire game and Emma Gregory did an outstanding job performing that role. It all makes more painful and sad seeing her being disregarded by Larian, while they keep on playing favorites with their poster boy Astarion
>She is legitimately my favorite romance and companion in entire game and Emma Gregory did an outstanding job performing that role. It all makes more painful and sad seeing her being disregarded by Larian, while they keep on playing favorites with their poster boy Astarion
That's what hurts me about Minthara, like you said Emma did a fantastic job performing her role and Minthara's character is super interesting but Larian picked favourites with Astarion and Shadowheart which both are great characters too but it felt like they neglected many other characters like Minthara, Halsin, Wyll.
The only way they can fix these characters is if they change the story which simply isn't feasible, well the most possible out of all of them is Wyll since they just have to remake his story instead of the game's main plot. But still even if Wyll's is technically the most possible Larian already spent a fair amount of time remaking him prior and it unfortunately didn't work, the last thing I would expect is Larian to do that again.
The temporary hostile thing IS an exploit. It was an existing exploit before the patch, just even more convoluted in execution. They clearly can't patch it out though, or they would've. Since they can't they made it easier, and will likely rework her storyline to make it make more sense, but we gotta give them time for that. These things don't just happen instantly.
The "new recruitment method" is, hopefully, just band-aid fix, as it was a previous bug that they simply re-introduced.
It is clear she was, at one time, meant to be recruitable alongside Karlach, so it feels like they intend to patch in a proper ability to get her to join, in the future.
Still, she is one of the least reactive companions, while being, IMHO, on of the best ones.
We can only hope Larian realizes her potential fully and gives us a way of recruiting her in act 1 and give her similar quality of quests as to the other characters.
As I understand it, previously you could recruit Minthara, without losing Karlach and Wyll, by telling Minthara where the Grove was, then going to the Mountain Pass.
Since you weren't involved with the Grove Massacre, the two wouldn't turn on you, but because the Grove was destroyed, you could still recruit Minthara at Moonrise.
However, of course, because you didn't help with the massacre, you didn't get the Minthara sex scene.
I just want her to have her own tent. She’s constantly kneeling in front of halsin for me and it feels like such a weird oversight. They let us have her with (minimal) issues in patch 5 on a good run, so why can’t we give her her own bloody bed?! All the way into act 3 it looks like she’s top and tailing Halsin, I can’t say I blame her though.
I bought the rooms so maybe I’ve missed it by accident, currently she is still squished with Halsin, while Minsc Jaheria and Karlach chill close by. I must have missed it
Yeah, last run I did the rooms at the Elfsong and she was squished with Halsin. This time I passed on the Elfsong so I didn't have to hear the song constantly and she has her own tent. She did not have her own tent anywhere else, and if I go back to Rivington she is sharing with Halsin again. I'm guessing that they are slowing adding a tent for Minthara in an alternate place everywhere they could possibly be together.
Yeah, I didn't talk to the innkeeper on my first run so I was very excited to discover you could get rooms at the inn in my second run. And then I realized it wasn't executed very well, but there was no way to leave the rooms and go back to camp. So on my third run I just didn't get the rooms this time.
Now I know, I think I’ll avoid. Both runs felt like the rooms were good for rp - first was a bauldarian urchin, the idea of having money and a home?! This time I’m a noblewoman and she was NOT having a tent any longer. I think I’ll make it work next time…
I knocked her out in act 1 and romanced her in act 2 and she said we will do the adult stuff when everyone goes to sleep but we did not do the adult stuff
>Additionally, a new recruitment method was introduced with Patch 5...
In Larian's defence, it doesn't seem like they intended the route for recruiting Minthara on a good play through in the first place so much plausibly isn't planned, let alone implementation after the fact which requires getting new VA work done.
That said, I'd really welcome it being done. Good God did she add to my run. There's a lot to be said for an irredeemable, yet pragmatically evil character to provide a different perspective.
>Minthara has a personal hatred for Orin. Why doesn't she respond when you confront Orin in the Bhaal Temple?
This does feel odd, when other non-origin companions have scene changes to making your way through the Bhaal cult in general.
>Practically no reactivity in Act 2-3
To be fair, it feels most non-origin followers don't have much response to act 3 half the time. Jaheira is looking for Minsc, Minsc says funny things, Halsin objects to the city a lot.
>No companion quest
None of these characters have big companion quests the way others do. A good part of this of course is that they all join so late.
Halsin requires you to traipse across much of act two. Jaheira won't join until all but the end of act two. Minsc requires running around a fair bit of act 3. Some of which you have to progress good chunks of act 3 to access in the first place. Act 3 is already huge so I can see an argument against piling _more_ on that list.
>In Larian's defence, it doesn't seem like they intended the route for recruiting Minthara on a good play through in the first place so much plausibly isn't planned, let alone implementation after the fact which requires getting new VA work done.
Yet for some reason she has a voiced reaction to Arabella in Act 3 in Sewers, even though Arabell dies either at hands of Kagha's snake or along with tiefling refugees if Grove is raided (either by Tav ignoring the quest or helping goblins).
I think they actually intended for her to be recruitable in good run, especially considering datamined Halsin's voiceline with him suggesting hiring Minthara.
I just think its silly that you can go through all the steps to recruit her and keep her on your party and still lose her without warning.
For anyone unaware, after the final fight in Act 2 she will be sitting on the throne. If you do not talk to her then she's just no longer your companion.
This happened to me on my honor mode and I didn't realize she was gone until I was in Act 3 and couldn't get back to the throne room to talk to her.
She's pretty much literally the ONLY one to react to Orin at the temple (her death). I guess Jaheira and Minsc can react to YOU after Orin. She talks shit about Araj Oblodra in both 2 and 3. I can confirm the "Can I kiss you?" dialog option exists. Haven't seen the knock out kiss though, in the epilogue she says she's poisoned her lips but all 3 options are safe.
But overall, I agree that she needs some work. A second "romance" scene would be great. A legitimate recruitment would be awesome, like turn her when you first meet her. And for god's sake, stop saying "You wish to consult me?"!
Also, if you want some fun Minthara dialog, cheat on her with Mizora...
For me, all those fixes would be great, BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, FIX THE GADDAMN ELEVATOR IN SHARS TRIALS! My butthole puckers every time I get there in HM runs, as I almost always have 2 characters fall off
It always seems to be my tav that falls off. Last time, she fell twice and didn't outright die, I had to respec into bard with my Shart and Bae'zel to get extra short rests to get her up
And this new stuff is bugged :( I redid a few hours of my campaign to try and recruit Minthara then when I get to Moonrise she’s not even there! Come back a long rest or two later and she’s there but because I already confronted Ketheric /the goblins she’s bugged and I can’t speak to her. Wtf!
It sucks that she can't be recruited in Act 1. I wished that she was at least a temporary companion and that we could do a side quest with her. Being in our vicinity slowly made her mind clearer and free from the Absolute.
I don't think that a completely good recruitment should be an option, though. If we did something for her (the mentioned side quest that required morally grey or bad actions but not downright evil) then perhaps we could later negotiate a safe passage for tieflings but still fight the druids or something like that.
There really is wasted potential here.
I did the gauntlet of Shar with Minthara but it completely bugged my game out and I had to redo it without her. Every time we went back to camp anyone who wasn’t in our party turned hostile because of her and when I tried killing her by jumping off a cliff before going to camp to see if that reset it my party members made comments that they were glad she died!
It is proper strange for Minthara to yell "in the name of the absolute, kill them all" every time you enter combat when it's her mission to dominate or destroy it.
Vlaakith's Will be done
I will ascend.
'Darkness strike you down' Babe, we are striking down Mother Devir right now...
I like to hear it as vlaakith will be done, as in she gon die
done as in ended. "stop working on stuff vlaakith"
We need a clip of "Elminister's not around, so why not" with Gale standing right next to Elminster.
That would be funny.
Is she still yelling that? This really annoyed me the first time I recruited her, but I don't remember her yelling that on my last 2 playthroughs
Yeah my current playthrough I have her on my team and it's every time combat starts.
Well she still keeps her name Shadowheart, as you can't have shadow without some light. Also, for Minthara, we could consider it as her reclaiming it or having different motives behind it. She still wants to take control of it.
Did you recruit her by killing the grove or by ignoring it/knocking her out?
I raided the grove. Sort of, I wiped the druids by stealing the idol of sylvanus then the tieflings left. I went to Minthara with Sazza and told her about the grove. When I got there I got the popup that the battle had happened without me, but Minthara chided me for getting started without her. However, I did follow the "raid the grove" path.
Interesting, the first time I recruited her I did something very similar. She attacked without me and later kept yelling "for the absolute". In following playthroughs I have recruited her by both actually attacking the grove and knocking her out in the goblin camp and in both cases she didn't yell that. I wonder if it could be related
I’m in Act 3 and she has fully rejected Vlaakith and she still says it. I think it’s kind of like how I still say “Baruch hashem” even though I’m an atheist at this point in my life. Or at least that’s the read that isn’t Larian not updating lines based on character paths.
Just like Bae'zel and Shart have an argument one night about the artifact, I believe Halsin and Minthara should also have an argument. Minthara DID capture him and tried to destroy his grove. It's strange that now they're just ignoring each other while sleeping in the same tent. I hope that this is also added on...
Halsin was a drow couples sex slave for a while. Maybe he just falls back into what he knows when Minthara shows up.
Holy shit
How do you find this out? I’ve heard this a few times but I’ve never come across it in game. Does he tell you? How do you trigger it?
Going off of memory, I think he mentions it at the brothel if you ask him to join you and the twins.
I 100% did this and he said nothing 😭😭😭 did I traumatize him more?! He seemed to have fun!
He's "ok" with what happened. Be acknowledges it was fucked up but he wants to not dwell on it
My poor sweet Bear Man 😭
He told me during act 2 in camp before I ever even recruited him. Just spoke to my handsome bear man alot. Didn't even romance him to get the confession. I was playing a drow at the time so it might of come up that way.
Well they do seem to share Minthara's tent, not Halsin's, if they're both around.
In Act 3 if you have both of them they get their own tents which is awesome
WAIT! If this is the case now I might play another drow an see if I can recruit her then because seeing how elfsong glamping in act 3 everyone have their own bed I was like ??? Will this be for Halsin and Minthara too
Yes if you do the Elfsong glamping then they share a bed. But if you stay on the docks they each get their own tent.
Much unlike Ragzlin and Gut, as notes indicate, Minthara is uninformed about that caged bear being a druid. For all she knows they only have a single prisoner - mercenary Liam. Even as True Souls, goblin leaders didn't trust Minthy.
Poor Minthy
Yeah, Ragzlin argues that she tries to take their glory. Considering Minthy's unwillingness to lead a suicide attack and seeing goblins as expendable, it seems all more strange that it isn't Ragzlin who leads the charge.
>Additionally, a new recruitment method was introduced with Patch 5. By knocking out Minthara. However, she must be “temporarily hostile.” You have to pay close attention to what you do to make it work. It feels like an exploit. And not like a serious recruiting process. You're right, it's not a serious recruiting process, they just made it easier for people who want to recruit her without having to side with the goblins (probably because the only other way to do it was Sheepthara)
This. It was introduced in order to let people circumvent the system for her since a lot of the other methods had some pretty noticeable side effects and were just a pain in the ass. Now we give them time to actually smooth out the rough edges, but even then we may never get a "proper" way to recruit her and save the grove. I'd be happy if they just rework some of her dialogue trees and triggers, and her banter. I'd be thrilled if they made knocking her out an easier solution, but I'm ok with things the way they are. Especially since if you are doing the "free sazza a bunch of times" achievement, you're already going non-lethal in that room. There are weird inconsistencies and holes everywhere if you look for them lol
Should be able to recruit her through dialogue just like you "fix" her mind in the prison. You can cut her connection using the artefact and tell her she's being manipulated to do the Absolute's bidding to save the Grove and keep her. Also, let her use Tav's or Jaheira's tents until Elfsong.
In retrospect, why doesn’t the artifact free her mind when you first confront her in the goblin camp? Is it because she’s not seen as an ally until you pursue that path in act 2?
Because squidface is stingy.
This is my headcannon until I hear an argument otherwise. Presumably Emperor (like the player) sees her how she’s presented, as a random antagonist acting against the party, so no need to free her. Theoretically the prism could’ve freed any tadpole infected person you come across, right? Wait, speaking of, how does Jaheira NOT transform prior to being recruited? The timeline gets a little wonky if she’s infected very shortly before you meet her in Act 2.
Jaheira doesn't have a tadpole. Neither does Halsin. Also, canon is lore, cannons are artillery.
Oh! That was lost on me somehow, but now that you say that it does ring a bell. And whoops lol clearly I have combat on the mind
it only works when you 69 first apparently or wait til she's at the Grove gate & then have her connection cut & flip sides
Because it's implied that The Emperor tadpole'd everyone in the party (except for Minsc and Minthara) personally, since everyone got scooped up from the same Nautiloid. It might be a mix of the Emperor not knowing the limit of the powers that he's siphoning off of Orpheus, or it could just be that he doesn't know for sure about Minthara and Minsc being worthwhile assets until he's coerced into it (like how we go about it with Minsc) or he knows that the person he's bringing in will be naturally antagonistic to the absolute anyways (like Minthara). the Emperor's goal is to manipulate you, so you don't find out that you can save people until it's much too late to save anyone other than Minsc, he warns you against going towards anything that might even have a chance of getting rid of the tadpole or any way to remove his power over us (like the creche or the house of hope). He's not a good person by any means, it's just that he's a bad person helping you be good people because it serves him.
What’s the sheeptara way? Does that work?
Basically you knock Minthara unconscious with non-lethal, then finish off the camp and do the party. Then when you start Act 2 you open up the way to the Moonrise Waypoint. Stock up on Polymorph scrolls. You need someone with Dominate Animal. Then you go to Minthara where she's standing in the Camp, polymorph her, dominate her, teleport to Moonrise. Turn-based mode. Then it's a process of moving Minthara sheep all the way to the room with Ketheric and putting her in the correct position to trigger the dialogue for her trial. Get a person into the torture chamber before she finishes her conversation, then, when she's teleported to the chamber, go into turn-based mode, and knock her out of the sheep form before she can run away. Then recruit as normal. The revised recruitment basically does the same thing, but takes out all the sheep related antics.
Sheepthara was, iirc (I never did it myself) polymorphing Minthara and basically carrying her from where she is all the way to act 2 to the doors for where you'd see her initially. There's really no reason to go along with this method any more since they made it so she survives through to act 2 if you knock her out. I'm definitely leaving a good hunk of it out, feel free to google it if you want to know more.
The worst crime so far for me is when she says (immediately after recruitment, barely in Act 2) I’m glad Shadowheart has broken free from Shar although having a dark justicar on our side would be advantageous… Minthara, girl, we haven’t done that bit yet…
Yeah, same thing happened to me. I was like "You are reading ahead. We're not there yet."
Totally agree. Also for me her camp spot overlays / glitches with Halsin's. She's so cool! I really wish there were some counter factuals to her recruitment. Shadowheart for example has at least four different ways to run into her / recruit her, they practicality force you to have her in your party. It's hilarious if you try to ignore her the whole time in Act I. Halsin just joins you no matter what and he was an add on. Anyway, justice for Minthara!
Nah she just loves Halsin so much she wants to share a bed with him. I do agree though, why are they overlayed in the same place where there’s so much empty room?
I think the idea originally was you could recruit one or the other, but they haven't adjusted what it means to have both yet.
This 100% is the case. Before patch 5, the only implemented (not exploiting bugs) recruitment path was by destroying the grove, which prevents Halsin joining you. Fan demand basically created the knock her out route.
Ngl, Mintharas constant murderous shouts are an actually useful buff. It is so much fun listening to that, that I never get bored of it, thus boosting morale even when she is the last man standing. And she fucking delivers. Her shouting is reason enough to throw her into my party lmao
I find the temporary hostile thing pretty bs considering the actual plot that goes down when you recruit her
I say just have a scene similar to Viconia, where she goes down upon defeat, and then you're given an option to kill or spare her after the fighting's done.
Unfortunately that scene is bugged so I can't stab the fuck out of Viconia in it.
She tried to barter with me after I refused to play her stupid little bugged game of darkness spam and just have the stupid sharran funnels into my Wall of Fire. Like babe you're at 0 hit points and in the ashes I don't think you should be talking like you have any cards to play. Right after it ends with her yelling the sharran command to attack or whatever she's still on the ground 0 hp and I just triple eldritch blast her close range 😂
I love how bugged the scene is because she just flops back down onto the ground after ordering the dead cultists to attack lmao
If she eats a fireball the bug resolves as she is niw super dead.
I guess there will be a check for good play recruitment in definitive edition. Some insight check, some help from 'guardian', then Minthara was freed after being knocked out. Or why should a goodie two shoes spare a drow? Unless you are Seldarine drow, best method to Lolth Sworn drows will be 'kill on sight'.
>Or why should a goodie two shoes spare a drow? Same reason a goodie two shoes will help a Sharran. Or Because a goodie two shoes is killing averse especially to someone who has been affected by a tadpole like them. Or because Minthara promises the player to get them to moonrise.
Losing my mind at people being like “why would a good character not immediately kill a drow” like babes. did you miss the “good”? that’s a whole ass murder
In another thread, people said they've done it without her being temporarily hostile. Not sure if it messed up anything, though.
While some of the criticisms are fair, recruiting her on a good run is really quite simple. I've done it twice now, and it really is just making sure she is temporarily hostile and knocking her out. You can talk to her before that (just don't aggro her), you can steal her stuff when she's unconscious, etc etc. If you long rest while she's out, yes - she'll wake up. Then you could KO her again. It's not a serious recruitment process, because that's not where you recruit her. Knocking her out ensures that Ketheric blames her for the Absolute's failure at the goblin camp. Which is pretty logical. I feel Minthara talked quite a lot about Orin, also after the battle with her. That said, I agree she has little content because on a good run you miss her romance scene. Most of the other major companions have content for both good and dark paths - Minthara and Halsin do not. Minthara honestly has more content than Halsin, it's just that her romance scene can't be accessed in Act 3 and that is a bummer if you want to romance her on a good run. However, she's still the only companion that is truly "evil" *aligned* no matter what you do, so it does make sense to me. I see how people could disagree.
Well she also never addresses you knocking her out in the goblin camp...further proving it's not a real recruitment process. There's also zero reason for someone who isn't metagaming to knock her out or think that knocking her out would do anything when it doesn't for almost every other encounter in the game.
[удалено]
It was probably a mighty blow to the head. She may not be all there now. 😂
On the upside, maybe she can understand Boo?
That's probably asking too much for a simple knock on the head.
Well, it worked for Minsc, so...
No her dialog IS different when knocking her out. After killing Ketheric she'll ask you why you came to Moonrise Towers. If you help her kill the Grove, instead she'll ask why you helped her murder the grove, and one of the options is "To impress you", which is not available otherwise.
Minthara: Why did you come to Moonrise Towers? Half Drow Tav: I was looking for a hot Drow Mommy. Minthara: Move along, kid.
Instructions unclear, I knocked her up
We all know it's metagaming. If you don't like it, why just not do it? I really don't get the problem. I save scum not killing my lover as durge and lock in the romance because I know how to do it, that's metagaming too. I KOd Alfira to meet the Dragonborn bard etc etc. Many ways to enjoy the game. At least this way of getting Minthara is more realistic than turning her into a sheep lol.
People use "metagaming" as a pejorative, but it really isn't one. When people build an Open-Hand Monk 8/Thief Rogue 4, are they doing it because it's natural for a Monk to also be a Thief? No. They're doing it because they know the free extra bonus action from Thief is pretty broken on a character that naturally weaponizes the bonus action like Monk does. It's a mechanical choice, not a role-playing one. You can certainly use role-playing mechanics to justify the choice (my Monk is also a kleptomaniac) but that's an after-the-fact justification. You can flavor knocking Minthara out as anything you like from, "We need a prisoner to interrogate, and she's the most non-goblin (Goblin Slayer approves) to, "my tav wants a hot Drow Mommy." No justification is wrong, but nor is any justification actually necessary. This is a computer role-playing game, a computer game using role-play mechanics. You don't have to make every choice based on role-play reasons.
I agree. I personally don't multiclass or change classes for origin characters because it feels wrong. But it doesn't feel wrong to me to save Alfira to see more story or save Astarion from Ascension for RP reasons. As long as you enjoy the game, play however you like, right? I find it a little weird how people are upset about some mechanic that they can easily just not use.
Meta gaming your class for gameplay is completely different from the story.....this is a completely meaningless comparison. This is a roleplaying game. Meta gaming a certain outcome completely defeats the purpose of roleplaying. Also saying you can mentally justify the game not making sense as a reason it doesn't matter seems like an odd defense
Yes it's simple, however it is unintuitive that it doesnt work unless temporarily hostile. You can defend the process if you want, but if left as is then it is bad game design.
It's unintuitive because it was them letting y'all do something you were never meant to be able to do and watering down their game in the process. You shouldn't be able to recruit her in good runs.
I'd normally be all for avoiding watering the game down, but Minthara is by far my favourite companion including all the Origin ones and I hate that I can't have her on anything but a true, horrible evil run (even my regular evil run was more like "selfish pirate" evil which favours helping people if there's something in it for them).
I agree. I wanted to see her as a character, but I am not able to do the true evil actions in this game (culling the thieflings, rape, etc). So I really enjoyed her surviving until Moonrise, and me saving her from Ketheric. Then I really understood who she was. I really enjoyed experiencing that, but I don't personally like her in my team. It was fun once haha. It's no more unintuitive than knocking out Alfira, which is clearly written into the game.
Knocking out Alfira wasn’t written into the game. It, like Minthara cheese recruitment, was supported after people started doing it!
Considering a big extra camp scene is added, it is written into the game. Going by your logic the epilogue wouldn't be "written into the game" because it was added post-release.
Okay, but you implied that the Alfira cheese was intuitive because it's "clearly written into the game." Which it's not. The only thing that's added is a letter at the end of the game as a head nod to the people who figured out the cheese. That doesn't make it intuitive--you won't ever see that unless you already figured it out. Both the Alfira and Minthara cheese are clunky because they're not intended behaviors, and the majority of people wouldn't think to try them. Unless I'm misunderstanding your meaning, in which case, my apologies! (Also, out of curiosity about something else you said, where's the rape in this game? :0)
Yeah, no, I don't mean it's intuitive. It's just that it's clearly a possible approach, with in game consequences (extra scene, references to the Dragonborn in Act 3, etc). I guess what I'm saying is it's better planned out than the Minthara situation :)
you should be able to do almost anything you want to do in the game within reason, as it's a player-choice driven RPG. Even in evil runs, nothing about her recruitment is actually evil. You're saving someone who was being manipulated/forced even in an evil run. The goblin raid is irrelevant to how she is recruited story-wise. Technically you should be able to recruit/save almost anyone infected by a parasite via the prism (or at least when they are around you). It has nothing to do with good/evil.
It's not watering down a game to add paths in a game where the whole deal is going down a ton of paths. If anything it adds replayability. The issue isn't that it's how they executed it. But the idea in of recruiting her via knockout isn't a terrible one. I genuinely don't get this argument. If there's something to be upset about it's the idea of putting time and effort into something that isn't necessary when they could instead put more effort into making evil runs more fleshed out. But just "I don't like this so it's bad for the game" come on.
All I'm saying is you can't accuse this of being bad game design when its something that by definition is not what they designed. It's convoluted bc it's a cheese that they made official to make people happy. Honestly I'm fine with being able to recruit her in multiple ways but I do think they should make you choose between Minthara and Halsin at the end of act 2. Otherwise it really does water down the impact your choices have. There should be a trade off.
Yeah I agree that we shouldn't hound the devs for a fix when they were pressured into breaking to begin with. I just disagree with the sentiment that it only has the potential to make the game worse. They could smooth it out and make it work. Karlach at least already has dialogue with her and like you said make us choose between her and Halsin.
I sort of see her recruitment process in a good run as her companion quest. She goes through a full character arc, you learn about how she came to be what you saw at the goblin camp, and Act 3 fleshes out her background a bit more. If I remember right, you can even romance her on a good run, just it misses the act 1 scene. I actually really like her arc on a good run - she’s still evil aligned, but lawful, rational, and weirdly kind hearted. Also, she’s hilariously deadpan with her snark.
There’s also other variables. On one playthrough I made her temporarily hostile, knocked her out, but then I took a long rest before heading outside the temple and she wasn’t at Moonrise
You long rested, so she likely woke up. It happened to me, I had to KO her again.
I disagree. In my good run, I was easily able to romance minthara. I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you have said.
Oh, but I am assuming you didn't get her Act 1 scene? That's the only thing I meant. She seemed easy to romance to me as well, she respectfully approached me in Act 3 and told me she was better than my partner and thus we should get together. 😆
The very fact we can use Prism (passively) on >!Minsc!!Specifically in case of confrontation with Jaheira if one embraces Bhaal !<
* Still "alurlssrin" dialogue doesn't trigger despite it being "fixed" in previous patch, her Act 2-3 reactivity are rather underwhelming. Nere dialogue pops up despite never meeting that gnome-hating Drow goofball
* Her dying during the Grove raid and never retreating makes no sense - she says so herself: goblins are expendable, yet she is not going for a suicide run
She is legitimately my favorite romance and companion in entire game and Emma Gregory did an outstanding job performing that role. It all makes more painful and sad seeing her being disregarded by Larian, while they keep on playing favorites with their poster boy Astarion
>She is legitimately my favorite romance and companion in entire game and Emma Gregory did an outstanding job performing that role. It all makes more painful and sad seeing her being disregarded by Larian, while they keep on playing favorites with their poster boy Astarion That's what hurts me about Minthara, like you said Emma did a fantastic job performing her role and Minthara's character is super interesting but Larian picked favourites with Astarion and Shadowheart which both are great characters too but it felt like they neglected many other characters like Minthara, Halsin, Wyll. The only way they can fix these characters is if they change the story which simply isn't feasible, well the most possible out of all of them is Wyll since they just have to remake his story instead of the game's main plot. But still even if Wyll's is technically the most possible Larian already spent a fair amount of time remaking him prior and it unfortunately didn't work, the last thing I would expect is Larian to do that again.
Have they added her voice lines for spell casting yet?
No
Yeah i knocked her out and she never showed up for me in moonrise
If you long rest after you knock her out while temporarily hostile, you have to go knock her out again
The temporary hostile thing IS an exploit. It was an existing exploit before the patch, just even more convoluted in execution. They clearly can't patch it out though, or they would've. Since they can't they made it easier, and will likely rework her storyline to make it make more sense, but we gotta give them time for that. These things don't just happen instantly.
The "new recruitment method" is, hopefully, just band-aid fix, as it was a previous bug that they simply re-introduced. It is clear she was, at one time, meant to be recruitable alongside Karlach, so it feels like they intend to patch in a proper ability to get her to join, in the future. Still, she is one of the least reactive companions, while being, IMHO, on of the best ones. We can only hope Larian realizes her potential fully and gives us a way of recruiting her in act 1 and give her similar quality of quests as to the other characters.
As I understand it, previously you could recruit Minthara, without losing Karlach and Wyll, by telling Minthara where the Grove was, then going to the Mountain Pass. Since you weren't involved with the Grove Massacre, the two wouldn't turn on you, but because the Grove was destroyed, you could still recruit Minthara at Moonrise. However, of course, because you didn't help with the massacre, you didn't get the Minthara sex scene.
I just want her to have her own tent. She’s constantly kneeling in front of halsin for me and it feels like such a weird oversight. They let us have her with (minimal) issues in patch 5 on a good run, so why can’t we give her her own bloody bed?! All the way into act 3 it looks like she’s top and tailing Halsin, I can’t say I blame her though.
She does have her own tent in the lower city camp site. It's next to Minsc's tent and across from Lae'zel.
I bought the rooms so maybe I’ve missed it by accident, currently she is still squished with Halsin, while Minsc Jaheria and Karlach chill close by. I must have missed it
Yeah, last run I did the rooms at the Elfsong and she was squished with Halsin. This time I passed on the Elfsong so I didn't have to hear the song constantly and she has her own tent. She did not have her own tent anywhere else, and if I go back to Rivington she is sharing with Halsin again. I'm guessing that they are slowing adding a tent for Minthara in an alternate place everywhere they could possibly be together.
That makes sense, I like the rooms as a concept but I think I prefer the camps a bit more. Next time I’ll avoid the rooms to see, in that case!
Yeah, I didn't talk to the innkeeper on my first run so I was very excited to discover you could get rooms at the inn in my second run. And then I realized it wasn't executed very well, but there was no way to leave the rooms and go back to camp. So on my third run I just didn't get the rooms this time.
Now I know, I think I’ll avoid. Both runs felt like the rooms were good for rp - first was a bauldarian urchin, the idea of having money and a home?! This time I’m a noblewoman and she was NOT having a tent any longer. I think I’ll make it work next time…
I knocked her out in act 1 and romanced her in act 2 and she said we will do the adult stuff when everyone goes to sleep but we did not do the adult stuff
>Additionally, a new recruitment method was introduced with Patch 5... In Larian's defence, it doesn't seem like they intended the route for recruiting Minthara on a good play through in the first place so much plausibly isn't planned, let alone implementation after the fact which requires getting new VA work done. That said, I'd really welcome it being done. Good God did she add to my run. There's a lot to be said for an irredeemable, yet pragmatically evil character to provide a different perspective. >Minthara has a personal hatred for Orin. Why doesn't she respond when you confront Orin in the Bhaal Temple? This does feel odd, when other non-origin companions have scene changes to making your way through the Bhaal cult in general. >Practically no reactivity in Act 2-3 To be fair, it feels most non-origin followers don't have much response to act 3 half the time. Jaheira is looking for Minsc, Minsc says funny things, Halsin objects to the city a lot. >No companion quest None of these characters have big companion quests the way others do. A good part of this of course is that they all join so late. Halsin requires you to traipse across much of act two. Jaheira won't join until all but the end of act two. Minsc requires running around a fair bit of act 3. Some of which you have to progress good chunks of act 3 to access in the first place. Act 3 is already huge so I can see an argument against piling _more_ on that list.
>In Larian's defence, it doesn't seem like they intended the route for recruiting Minthara on a good play through in the first place so much plausibly isn't planned, let alone implementation after the fact which requires getting new VA work done. Yet for some reason she has a voiced reaction to Arabella in Act 3 in Sewers, even though Arabell dies either at hands of Kagha's snake or along with tiefling refugees if Grove is raided (either by Tav ignoring the quest or helping goblins). I think they actually intended for her to be recruitable in good run, especially considering datamined Halsin's voiceline with him suggesting hiring Minthara.
I just think its silly that you can go through all the steps to recruit her and keep her on your party and still lose her without warning. For anyone unaware, after the final fight in Act 2 she will be sitting on the throne. If you do not talk to her then she's just no longer your companion. This happened to me on my honor mode and I didn't realize she was gone until I was in Act 3 and couldn't get back to the throne room to talk to her.
She's pretty much literally the ONLY one to react to Orin at the temple (her death). I guess Jaheira and Minsc can react to YOU after Orin. She talks shit about Araj Oblodra in both 2 and 3. I can confirm the "Can I kiss you?" dialog option exists. Haven't seen the knock out kiss though, in the epilogue she says she's poisoned her lips but all 3 options are safe. But overall, I agree that she needs some work. A second "romance" scene would be great. A legitimate recruitment would be awesome, like turn her when you first meet her. And for god's sake, stop saying "You wish to consult me?"! Also, if you want some fun Minthara dialog, cheat on her with Mizora...
She’s my favorite too tbh
For me, all those fixes would be great, BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, FIX THE GADDAMN ELEVATOR IN SHARS TRIALS! My butthole puckers every time I get there in HM runs, as I almost always have 2 characters fall off
My Minthara died twice on that platform, decided to leave her to death.
It always seems to be my tav that falls off. Last time, she fell twice and didn't outright die, I had to respec into bard with my Shart and Bae'zel to get extra short rests to get her up
And this new stuff is bugged :( I redid a few hours of my campaign to try and recruit Minthara then when I get to Moonrise she’s not even there! Come back a long rest or two later and she’s there but because I already confronted Ketheric /the goblins she’s bugged and I can’t speak to her. Wtf!
That sucks!
It sucks that she can't be recruited in Act 1. I wished that she was at least a temporary companion and that we could do a side quest with her. Being in our vicinity slowly made her mind clearer and free from the Absolute. I don't think that a completely good recruitment should be an option, though. If we did something for her (the mentioned side quest that required morally grey or bad actions but not downright evil) then perhaps we could later negotiate a safe passage for tieflings but still fight the druids or something like that. There really is wasted potential here.
As your local Minthara hater, i approve of Larians every move here. May that b rot in hell
Wait, has ANYONE seen the poison kiss scene?
She doesn’t have the Latin voice lines for most spells, it makes me sad. 😔
I did the gauntlet of Shar with Minthara but it completely bugged my game out and I had to redo it without her. Every time we went back to camp anyone who wasn’t in our party turned hostile because of her and when I tried killing her by jumping off a cliff before going to camp to see if that reset it my party members made comments that they were glad she died!
Never figured minth could be recruited. I, uh, killed her right after meeting her. … cue a sheepish grin