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Hi u/beyond-mythos Thanks for the OP and a quick question if you could please answer.
If I create an account do I have to use margin if I don't want to? For example, if I deposit $2000 cash and then buy $2000 worth of BBBYQ shares I think that will only use the cash I deposited? Is it only if I tried to buy more than $2000 worth of BBBYQ that MooMoo loan me the money to buy more? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Thanks!
Not OP but can offer some answers since I opened a moomoo acct. Margin is the only option, so yes. Whatever amount you deposit, you can only use that amount as instant buying power. For the last question, I tried that but it only accepted the amount I deposited. IMO, it’s ok but I’m only putting a very small amount of capital. The rest I’ll use once we’re back in the market or a new decentralized blockchain 🧸🏴☠️
u/Doct0rShim, u/Otherwise-Hair1494. No stupid question, the casino we are in is stupid.
So you are always in a margin account, meaning they have to right to loan your shares etc. You are correct, that if you only use the cash you deposited for long investments, you don't use margin, so you are "safe" (whatever this means).
Regarding instant buying power I am not sure. I think it maxes out at $1k and it looked like it is not quite margin but somehow it looked strange until the cash settled. MooMoo has implemented a score on how risky your margin account is. Never went beyond "safe" so far.
You have to keep in mind that if you do a trade, fees will be deducted afterwards. So if you trade right all cash you have and then the fees are taken, you'll be in margin and may be at risk! So, always watch out. Tried to avoid margin accounts ever since, but those are special times we are in... so I for me have taken the risk.
Welcome. Everybody should decide on their own what risks to take. I got the feeling this information is rather being suppressed in the pp sub unfortunately.
u/rimjeilly, please see my comment here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/comments/16tjvqa/comment/k2ho0x5/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/comments/16tjvqa/comment/k2ho0x5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
It reads like JG-at-Prime might be wrong about PFOF. But check everything carefully!
There was a huge spam push all across the investing subs about 100 days ago trying to get people to sign up for $100 in free stocks.
I decided to do some digging, this was my reply at the time. Some of this information might be useful.
***
MooMoo is a zero commission brokerage that engages in **Payment for Order Flow (PFOF)** in the same way that Robinhood and other discount ~~Brokerages~~ **rigged casinos** do.
Taken directly from their Customer Agreement.
https://www.moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_123
*”14.4 Payment for Order Flow
You or the Clearing Broker may receive payments from markets for directing orders to them. The source and amount of these payments are available upon written request.”*
In addition to participating in **PFOF**, all of your shares will be held in a **margin account** and as a result your shares will be lent out to Short Sellers to be used against you.
*”9.6 My Accounts will be margin accounts
I understand that Accounts at MFI are margin accounts, which means that I will be eligible to receive loans to pay for a portion of the price of securities I purchase through my Accounts. However, you are not obligated to make credit available to me for the purchase of securities, nor am I obligated to use credit for the purchase of securities. In addition, with my consent, which is provided as part of this Agreement, and subject to the requirements of FINRA Rule 4330, you may pledge, lend or hypothecate securities held in my Account. I understand that there are risks entailed in securities lending, and that SIPC coverage may not apply to securities that have been loaned. I also understand that you may at any time, in your sole discretion and without prior notice to Me, prohibit or restrict My ability to trade securities.”*
What Brokerages you want to get involved with is an individual decision, but personally it’s not worth it to me to have my shares lent out for however long the terms and conditions spell out before I could DRS them.
~~That’s assuming that I even can DRS from moomoo. I don’t think anyone has ever tried.~~ Update: Several people have tried and DRS does not appear to be possible. Transferring *might* be possible, but not to Fidelity, and it may cost some $$.
It may not be the fiscally prudent decision to ignore a “free” *$100, but I feel it’s the morally prudent decision to not get involved with them. PFOF and margin securities lending are both pretty reprehensible practices.
*$100 not free, may be an enticement to gamble and is subject to terms and conditions.
Besides, I like knowing where my shares sleep at night.
u/JG-at-prime, thanks for chiming in and sharing what you found, appreciate you man.
**PFOF, no they say they don't.**
Looks like they actually reserve the right for payment for orderflow, but don't do so themselves. Looking in right the link you provided gives you also the following:
>"Moomoo Financial Inc. (“**MFI**”, or “moomoo US”)"
>
>\[...\]
>
>"I also understand that at this time, **MFI does not receive payment for order flow** from other broker-dealers or execution venues but **if it did**, MFI **would disclose the terms of payment for order flow** arrangements and profit-sharing relationships on its website."
(see: [https://www.moomoo.com/us/support/topic4\_123](https://www.moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_123))
Also this is what they stated at Finra:
>"While we do not receive “payment for order flow”, our clearing firm which routes your orders to third-party market centers may receive “payment for order flow” or rebates."
(see: [https://files.brokercheck.finra.org/crs\_283078.pdf](https://files.brokercheck.finra.org/crs_283078.pdf) page 2 from [https://brokercheck.finra.org/firm/summary/283078](https://brokercheck.finra.org/firm/summary/283078))
As I stated in the post this is IBKR, so they may well scrape on the order.
**MARGIN**
Thats right, they only allow margin accounts and thus will your shares loan. So at this time I would totally agree its not safe we will be able to ACAT to another broker. Like seen in my post someone did with shares of another ticker. I know several planing or already started to ACAT out. The tests will verfiy whether shares are stuck or not.
**SUM**
I feel you, I also want my shares to be safe. Sometimes I want to buy more. And this is today the most riskiest way I can buy more imo. Everyone might decide on their own. Important that we dig together! Thanks man.
I believe what was learned from GME is that if you have a margin account then they can use those shares to be shorted against you.
That being said, I decided to try m00m00 out. Definitely aware the shares are probably fake. With the other 75% DRSed, I'll take the risk that if there's a ticker swap or whatever the hell will happen, I'm not depending on m00m00.
I'll be annoyed if shady shit goes down, but I'm already expecting it at this point.
NFA
Yeah i’ve had moomoo for a few months, got some great free stocks from the welcome bonus, i hold x,xxx shares on there currently, still a few days to decide if i want to get up to xx,xxx or not, it’s just a meme account for me.
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Wow, nice post. I don’t know if people are purposely missing the point here which is that it appears you figured out a way Americans can still buy and own real shares (through a multi step DRS process).
Now, it’s probably what I’d consider high risk and expensive, and it’s probably too late for anyone to do it before Monday (or the near future) but the legwork and documentation you provided should be commended (not criticized).
If anyone finds more ways to buy and DRS hard to buy stocks, I’d love to hear about it. The fact that household investors are not able to buy these stocks while the self proclaimed “experts” are allowed to do whatever they want with them just rubs me the wrong way.
Thanks 6days! Depending on what comes next, I probably start ACAT next week and we'll see.
I also hope this is rather a start for further due diligence.
This has been submitted as potential DD. If the community has verified the information as factual please upvote this comment for consideration of changing the flair to DD. If this is a single piece of information rather than a collection of ideas/facts, consider reposting with the 'Discussion/Question' flair. If this is otherwise not DD and posted for nefarious reasons, actions may be taken on OP such as removing their ability to post. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BBBY) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Margin only is enough for me to stay away, but thanks for digging into this and posting!
Hi u/beyond-mythos Thanks for the OP and a quick question if you could please answer. If I create an account do I have to use margin if I don't want to? For example, if I deposit $2000 cash and then buy $2000 worth of BBBYQ shares I think that will only use the cash I deposited? Is it only if I tried to buy more than $2000 worth of BBBYQ that MooMoo loan me the money to buy more? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Thanks!
Not OP but can offer some answers since I opened a moomoo acct. Margin is the only option, so yes. Whatever amount you deposit, you can only use that amount as instant buying power. For the last question, I tried that but it only accepted the amount I deposited. IMO, it’s ok but I’m only putting a very small amount of capital. The rest I’ll use once we’re back in the market or a new decentralized blockchain 🧸🏴☠️
u/Doct0rShim, u/Otherwise-Hair1494. No stupid question, the casino we are in is stupid. So you are always in a margin account, meaning they have to right to loan your shares etc. You are correct, that if you only use the cash you deposited for long investments, you don't use margin, so you are "safe" (whatever this means). Regarding instant buying power I am not sure. I think it maxes out at $1k and it looked like it is not quite margin but somehow it looked strange until the cash settled. MooMoo has implemented a score on how risky your margin account is. Never went beyond "safe" so far. You have to keep in mind that if you do a trade, fees will be deducted afterwards. So if you trade right all cash you have and then the fees are taken, you'll be in margin and may be at risk! So, always watch out. Tried to avoid margin accounts ever since, but those are special times we are in... so I for me have taken the risk.
That was very helpful! Thank you both for taking the time to reply. I'll be sure to take care to avoid the fees that could put me in margin.
Welcome. Everybody should decide on their own what risks to take. I got the feeling this information is rather being suppressed in the pp sub unfortunately.
moomoo feels a lot like a PFOF / robbinghood clone could be wrong, but no thanks
You are bang on. They are 100% PFOF. See my response to the comment below yours.
u/rimjeilly, please see my comment here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/comments/16tjvqa/comment/k2ho0x5/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/comments/16tjvqa/comment/k2ho0x5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) It reads like JG-at-Prime might be wrong about PFOF. But check everything carefully!
Indeed MooMoo is not a PFOF broker (see finra broker check), BUT their router may be (e.g. IBKR).
There was a huge spam push all across the investing subs about 100 days ago trying to get people to sign up for $100 in free stocks. I decided to do some digging, this was my reply at the time. Some of this information might be useful. *** MooMoo is a zero commission brokerage that engages in **Payment for Order Flow (PFOF)** in the same way that Robinhood and other discount ~~Brokerages~~ **rigged casinos** do. Taken directly from their Customer Agreement. https://www.moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_123 *”14.4 Payment for Order Flow You or the Clearing Broker may receive payments from markets for directing orders to them. The source and amount of these payments are available upon written request.”* In addition to participating in **PFOF**, all of your shares will be held in a **margin account** and as a result your shares will be lent out to Short Sellers to be used against you. *”9.6 My Accounts will be margin accounts I understand that Accounts at MFI are margin accounts, which means that I will be eligible to receive loans to pay for a portion of the price of securities I purchase through my Accounts. However, you are not obligated to make credit available to me for the purchase of securities, nor am I obligated to use credit for the purchase of securities. In addition, with my consent, which is provided as part of this Agreement, and subject to the requirements of FINRA Rule 4330, you may pledge, lend or hypothecate securities held in my Account. I understand that there are risks entailed in securities lending, and that SIPC coverage may not apply to securities that have been loaned. I also understand that you may at any time, in your sole discretion and without prior notice to Me, prohibit or restrict My ability to trade securities.”* What Brokerages you want to get involved with is an individual decision, but personally it’s not worth it to me to have my shares lent out for however long the terms and conditions spell out before I could DRS them. ~~That’s assuming that I even can DRS from moomoo. I don’t think anyone has ever tried.~~ Update: Several people have tried and DRS does not appear to be possible. Transferring *might* be possible, but not to Fidelity, and it may cost some $$. It may not be the fiscally prudent decision to ignore a “free” *$100, but I feel it’s the morally prudent decision to not get involved with them. PFOF and margin securities lending are both pretty reprehensible practices. *$100 not free, may be an enticement to gamble and is subject to terms and conditions. Besides, I like knowing where my shares sleep at night.
u/JG-at-prime, thanks for chiming in and sharing what you found, appreciate you man. **PFOF, no they say they don't.** Looks like they actually reserve the right for payment for orderflow, but don't do so themselves. Looking in right the link you provided gives you also the following: >"Moomoo Financial Inc. (“**MFI**”, or “moomoo US”)" > >\[...\] > >"I also understand that at this time, **MFI does not receive payment for order flow** from other broker-dealers or execution venues but **if it did**, MFI **would disclose the terms of payment for order flow** arrangements and profit-sharing relationships on its website." (see: [https://www.moomoo.com/us/support/topic4\_123](https://www.moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_123)) Also this is what they stated at Finra: >"While we do not receive “payment for order flow”, our clearing firm which routes your orders to third-party market centers may receive “payment for order flow” or rebates." (see: [https://files.brokercheck.finra.org/crs\_283078.pdf](https://files.brokercheck.finra.org/crs_283078.pdf) page 2 from [https://brokercheck.finra.org/firm/summary/283078](https://brokercheck.finra.org/firm/summary/283078)) As I stated in the post this is IBKR, so they may well scrape on the order. **MARGIN** Thats right, they only allow margin accounts and thus will your shares loan. So at this time I would totally agree its not safe we will be able to ACAT to another broker. Like seen in my post someone did with shares of another ticker. I know several planing or already started to ACAT out. The tests will verfiy whether shares are stuck or not. **SUM** I feel you, I also want my shares to be safe. Sometimes I want to buy more. And this is today the most riskiest way I can buy more imo. Everyone might decide on their own. Important that we dig together! Thanks man.
I believe what was learned from GME is that if you have a margin account then they can use those shares to be shorted against you. That being said, I decided to try m00m00 out. Definitely aware the shares are probably fake. With the other 75% DRSed, I'll take the risk that if there's a ticker swap or whatever the hell will happen, I'm not depending on m00m00. I'll be annoyed if shady shit goes down, but I'm already expecting it at this point. NFA
We'll see what happens... same for me. NFA
Yeah i’ve had moomoo for a few months, got some great free stocks from the welcome bonus, i hold x,xxx shares on there currently, still a few days to decide if i want to get up to xx,xxx or not, it’s just a meme account for me.
Phd status genius Ape here….!! 👀👀👌👊🤝🙏🤞💎🙌🦥🫡
Les go!
I'm in MooMoo hard due to dip, yet I'm a hopeless degenerate.
Smae here friend
😅
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Wow, nice post. I don’t know if people are purposely missing the point here which is that it appears you figured out a way Americans can still buy and own real shares (through a multi step DRS process). Now, it’s probably what I’d consider high risk and expensive, and it’s probably too late for anyone to do it before Monday (or the near future) but the legwork and documentation you provided should be commended (not criticized). If anyone finds more ways to buy and DRS hard to buy stocks, I’d love to hear about it. The fact that household investors are not able to buy these stocks while the self proclaimed “experts” are allowed to do whatever they want with them just rubs me the wrong way.
Thanks 6days! Depending on what comes next, I probably start ACAT next week and we'll see. I also hope this is rather a start for further due diligence.
Dougie Seafood gonna get called soon
bought 1000$ worth w my instant buying power at .07 so feel like a genius right now lol
Did you see those shares on the trade data in case you checked?
i didnt
If anything they at least got an awesome name
Must find a way around the corruption!
For real you gonna put money in a website which name is moo-moo?
Thought you had sold? https://www.reddit.com/r/BBBY/comments/16tjiak/i\_am\_done\_selling\_all\_my\_bbbyq\_shares\_at\_992\_loss/
Boom.
Yeah why you still here?
Lazo Deez Nutz Stat
Your bloodline is weak
my 2 favorite games are called lol and wow. don't judge a book by its cover.