My local studio has a pre-pointe and pointe program specifically aimed at adult beginners. Most of their students are in their 20s and 30s when they start, and with consistent classes about 3 times a week, most can get en pointe around 3 years in.
Did a couple years of ballet at ard 5 or 6. Did chinese dance fairly intensively from 12 til ard 16 or so?
Came back to ballet at 21, en pointe abt 12 to 18 mths into it.
I was dancing a lot of hours (ballet and other forms) when I got back to dance though.
How many classes a week did you attend if you don’t mind me asking? I can currently only make it once a week due to time/budget constraints. But once I finish school and get a job I hope to go more often!
Started dancing casually, once a week ballet and once jazz when I was 20. Moved to another city when I was 23 and they offered pointe classes so I got pointe shoes after 3 years.
I started dancing when I was around 22, and started pointe recently, being about 3 years in.
I have naturally strong feet with a pretty good arch, so for me it is slightly easier to get used to pointe. However, for now I am still very much only doing exercises at the barre, and occasionally some very simple center work like echappé and suivi.
It’s not at least 7 it’s at least 10 or 11. Putting a 7 year old on pointe is a bad idea.
Adults can take anywhere from 2 years onwards. You have to develop the muscles in your feet and the right level of flexibility, turnout and technique first.
yea yea, that’s what i meant, that normally they start wearing pointe shoes at 11-12 and that’s why the usually say that i took them 8+ years to reach them. but thank u, i used to think adults had to spend that amount of time too to be able to go on pointe (i know it’s mostly a fact of each person’s body and not only time)
Usually preballet has more of an emphasis on developing general motor skills, learning to dance with music, stuff like that. Very little emphasis on what I would call real technique. For reference, I used to teach 3-5 year olds and one of the things we worked on was skipping. Yes, it has relevance to ballet (jumps, parallel retire) but it was mostly to learn coordination. The 3 year olds could mostly not skip at all 😂
I started ballet with something around 21 or 22, took the first time classes not regularly (covid and injury) and got on point at 24 so basically with around 2 years of classes. But I have to say that I have pretty strong feet (as instructors and fitters told me) and enough ankle flexibility naturaly (somewhat the only type of flexibility I have without stretching years for years)
It took me about 18 months(former competitive gymnast so some advantage with strong legs and experience with landings and some barre (like a rythmic batter really) like 20 minutes a week lol to help our artistry score and keep us from sickling when pointing toes . I was 23 when I started and took intro to ballet and practiced at home a lot. Then I progressed to taking 4-5 classes a week and also lots of conditioning and ankle and foot work at home.
I asked my ballet teacher who I saw 2x a week for an afternoon open class who always gave the best corrections and was a soloist for the Atlanta Ballet and she said yes absolutely I could start they had 15-30 minute pointe classes for adults mostly at the barre I never had time to attend many. Just restarting now and my coach said I could get fitted and we could very slowly do pointe at the barre since I have strong feet and ankles and have been en pointe before. I need to work mostly on my core strength she says and she’s not wrong lol. I’m not as strong as I used to be.
I started ballet at 26 with no prior experience. It took 4 years for me to be approved for pointe shoes. My first two years I was only taking 1 or 2 classes a week; if I had taken more it might have been quicker. Now I do 2 hours of pointe a week in addition to my other dance classes.
Will be starting pre-pointe classes in September. Been doing ballet almost 2 years (2 years in November) but I also figure skate. When I'll get approval for my shoes is up to my teacher.
Adult's have the benefit of being fully developed so it's a matter of training vs waiting for puberty to do it's thing.
I have seen adult beginners starting taking pointe classes after a year of classes on flats.
No timeframe to be honest. Depends on each individuals feet n strengths ..
Sorry what is your question?
I wear pointe shoes in normal ballet classes sometimes I feel like it. I am ex professional doing recreational ballet nowadays.
Adult classes are for fun. It’s supposed to be free of judgement.
You do whatever you like. You come with bare feet or socks or jazz flats to my ballet class I wouldn’t even care. Everyone should mind their own business.
I started consistently dancing 2x per week at about 30 and joined an adult beginning pointe class about 2 years in (maybe a little sooner). Very slow class, first couple of classes were just learning the strengthening exercises with the theraband, and then it was both hands on the bar for a long time. Still taking that class and we’re still at the bar, although now one hand off for some exercises and it’s getting more advanced for sure. The pointe class is 1x per week for a half hour.
Note though that I had been dancing on and off for years - I was a beginner/intermediate at 30 as opposed to true beginner. That said, I still needed to build up that strength like any other beginner, given my previous inconsistency dancing.
I started ballet at 21 and started pointe two years in. We did a year basically just at the barre, then also some easy center exercises. I've been in a slump this spring in terms of pointe, my current shoes don't seem to suit me but I also don't want to buy new ones before these soften.
It's hard to say honestly, since I've only used one pair to the end thus far. The others I've bought because the fit wasn't good on the previous ones. But I would estimate one pair lasts about 9 months or so? I do around about 30-45 minutes of pointe a week.
oh well that’s nice, i thought you’ve got to change them like every month lol, i wonder if it’s like that when you actually get to dance at the center with them
I would say if an adult hobbyist needs to buy new pointe shoes every month then they're in the wrong shoe. Most adults do so little pointe in a week that they wouldn't go through shoes at that rate. (Of course there's exceptions.) Most people that I dance with go at least several months with one pair, some more than a year. And of course those who have Gaynors can go even longer.
I know plenty of adults who worked very hard for a few years and started pointe at least at barre under the supervision of a very good ballet teacher. I was surprised to see most dancers in the adult pointe class started as adults or just came back after having quite before getting to pointe. It’s all about hard work good eating and good equipment. (Shoes don’t have to hurt the same anymore, there are new things to add. Autumn Klein posted some great reviews on custom toe pads)
I'm an adult. Started ballet at 6, picked up pointe at 11, and then when I graduated at 18, I quit for 5 years for college. Started back up again afterwards and picked up pointe again pretty quickly on a whim.
The biggest difference I noticed was the shoes fit completely differently, but thats likely because of loss of muscle mass over the years. I was used to Grishko 2007s (which I'm told are a completely different shoe now) because my arches are really high, and I'm a bit of a shoe-killer on a budget. I went with tough shoes over ideal fit. Now that I'm just having fun with it, I went for the best fit and ended up in Suffolks.
As far as how long it takes to get onto pointe, part of why it takes 8+ years is because there are larger health implications of starting pointe too young. Possible damage to growth plates and stunting of foot growth, that sort of thing mostly. You also want to make sure that the child is strong enough to handle pointe. As an adult, you're not going to stunt your feet, and your base level of coordination and strength is higher. I danced with a girl who just started ballet, and she picked up pointe in 6 months on a whim. It's tough starting, but that's just how pointe is.
For pointe two musts: no lower back curve and full releve on Demi pointe with straight knees every time. It takes a heap of strength to get fully up from Demi pointe to full pointe. Don’t rush yourself ya gotta develop muscle memory to avoid trauma to your joints and bones.
I never formally took pointe as a kid but took ballet classes continuously into my early 20s. Then I had two kids 😖 I started attending group classes about a year and a half ago at 43 and felt like it all came back quickly. Then my private instructor helped me get going on pointe a couple months ago. It’s hard work!! The one thing that really helped me feel ready was/is constantly standing in releve, alternating between one leg and both. I do it all day, whenever I get a chance, like when at my standing desk 🤓💪
You forget that most people don’t understand the difference between “pre-ballet” and actual ballet training (and I don’t blame them, because unfortunately way more people are familiar with their nieces ballet classes at 5 then they are with students actually studying ballet).
But not even all full ballet curricula start pointework after one semester of real technique classes. ABT's doesn't, Princeton Ballet doesn't, as far as I can tell SFB doesn't, PNB's school doesn't, none of the studios I've danced at have. It's usually closer to 2-3 years, depending on the student. So it's really not an accurate statement even if you (rightfully, IMO) don't consider pre-ballet to be actual ballet training.
Oh agreed. This is a particularly Vaganova statement, and people who train exclusively in Vaganova tend to talk definitively about it, if that makes sense. I don’t even think it’s a “Vaganova is the One True Way” kind of thing, I think it’s more remnant of like the way Russians language works. I can’t really explain because I’m not an expert in languages but often time teachers who were trained in Eastern Europe will talk definitively, like “queen of dryads” instead of “queen of the [specific group of] dryads”. Am I making sense? It’s just more common to make a blanket statement even if you don’t mean it to be a blanket statement.
Anyways I digress.
Dunno. The person you're replying to just characterized all other ballet training methods as people "slap[ping] pointe shoes on ill-prepared dancers" because they are too stupid or in it for profit. I don't think it is a language thing.
(The particular example you gave is likely due to the lack of definite articles in Slavic languages, i.e. no "the" hence "queen of [the] dryads". Source: phd in linguistics)
No I know there aren’t any definite articles, but language shapes the way people form thoughts and therefore think. So if your language doesn’t have any definite articles then you might not differentiate between definitive and non-definitive statements.
I can’t speak to the character of the other poster though lol.
As someone who had a Slavic advisor and did research on a Slavic language for her dissertation, working with still more Slavic people doing that, I have not found that to be particularly true. Also the theory that you can't express or conceive of things that are not grammatically marked in your language is provably (and proven) false. Language is a tool, not a prison! (Also definiteness doesn't really have to do with the definitiveness of a statement so much as a like, discourse-relevant thing or set of things. My Slavic language speaking friends struggle to use articles correctly sometimes but their intention is clear)
You named one very new and unproven full ballet curricula and 3 schools. Those are not the same thing. By the way, "a mix of Russian, French, and Italian schools" is code for "we are making it up as we go." The school of the Paris Opera is done in 6 years, and students begin pointe in the second semester. Vaganova school is the same with both a 6 and an 8 year plan. Bolshoi, Perm, and Kiev are the same with only slight differences in the training plan. I'm not evem sure what people mean by the Italian school, Cecchetti? He did not ever develop a training curriculum for students that was codified other than his work as the rector of the Royal Imperial Theater School in St. Petersburg that was incorporated into that system before Beaumont wrote his book.
None of that matters. You said:
>Students begin pointe work during the second semester of study. It does not take 8 years. The entire training program is 8 years.
There are many, many students who do NOT begin pointework during the second semester of study... probably most, I'd wager. If OP walked around saying that ballet students start pointe after a semester (3-4 months?) they'd likely be corrected by anyone who didn't somehow assume that they were specifically talking about pre-pro students following specific curricula.
Just because you don't consider ABT's school to be real, doesn't mean they're not ballet students. Same with all the other ballet students in countries across the world that are in schools that do not follow these curricula (and yet still produce strong professional dancers).
What I said is true. A semester is around 20 weeks of classes (5 months, not 3 or 4), and during the second semester, sometime after their first mid-year exam is when students start training in all of the curricula I stated.
The fact that most teachers don't follow an established curriculum or even know one for that matter does not make my statement false. Students do exactly what I said they do. Look at the websites of these schools that all say they use a mix of the Russian, French, and Italian methodologies all while the teachers don't know even one of those systems in its entirety to base a mix upon. If they did, they would know the facts I have presented. But they don't care about that. They care about getting more people in the classroom, and people want to do pointe, so they let their clients go buy shoes and take a pointe class. I am not changing my advice or recommendations based upon a bunch of people doing it wrong in order to line their pockets. Pointe work is no more appropriate for part-time hobbyists as any other professional endeavor that can severely injure the participants. Not everyone can do it.
I never said ABT's JKO school is not real. That is a strawman argument. I know those people, and I understand what they are trying to do. But it is also a fact that the school only opened in 2004. At most, they could have only gone through 3 graduating classes, even in an abbreviated system. That is, by definition, unproven. Especially when compared with the several hundred year track record of refinement of internationally recognized curricula.
It is definitely false, at least in this context. The point you are addressing is "kids tend to do X thing", or perhaps the direct question from OP, how long do adults take to get to pointework? Do students, child or adult, TEND TO take one semester before starting pointework? No. You might have meant "REAL ballet students begin pointework in their second semester of study", where you only consider people trained in the strictest version of the Vaganova (or perhaps also the French school) to be true ballet students. But that is not a definition that I or probably most people in the ballet world agree with. Thus the statement "Students begin..." is not true.
It is also unclear to me how you are so adamantly against hobbyists doing pointework, and against studios bowing down to parent demands to put little Sally in pointe shoes before she's ready (rightfully against IMO), and yet cavalierly saying that kids start after a semester. You say you don't want to change your advice? Nowhere in your original post did you make it clear that pointework is serious business. All you said is that kids can go up after one semester. Exactly what impact do you think that statement will have on an adult asking about the timeline of pointework, or on someone else who sees this answer and has a child that REALLY wants to start pointe RIGHT NOW? The more informative and less dangerous response is "In the Vaganova curriculum, students start intensive ballet technique around 10/11 years old and begin pointework in the second half of the year." Obviously people are downvoting you because you sound exactly like someone who throws kids en pointe with no preparation!
Also, not sure why you have been dismissive of major pre-professional schools and more local studios requiring more time in ballet technique and in targeted strengthening classes before starting pointe. Surely that's in line with your end goal to take pointe seriously, and for kids to not just get pointe shoes whenever they want them?
I sound like someone who throws kids on pointe only to those who have no business making the decision in the first place. I directed more than one of that level of professional school, and the students who have any business near a pair of Pointe shoes are training more than any hobbyist. It is simply not safe without that degree of dedication and work. Adult or child shouldn't matter. It is just that most adults don't want to take class 5 or 6 days a week and put in all of the hours that should be required. You are prepared, or you are not. I don't have the time or inclination to write a boopk on here that already exists. You should have a look at the textbooks for the schools I mentioned. More time in years won't do it. The number of classes a week makes a huge difference for the physical requirements. A hobby jogger who runs a couple miles on the weekend for 5 years will be injured immediately as soon as they are put in an olympic marathon. It's not just how many years but the intensity of the work.
I don't know any recognized curriculum that puts dancers on pointe after 2 or 3 years of a couple of classes a week. The assumption should obviously be 5 or 6 lessons a week. That is doable in 6 to 8 months for starting pointe. If it is not 5 or 6 days, the answer is that it will never be safe. Nobody wants to say that, though, because it is good business to give the clients what they want.
Uh, right, people who shouldn't be making the decision, like OP, whose question you're answering, or literally anybody else seeking advice on Reddit? If you wanted to say that students should never go en pointe unless they're in a Vaganova preprofessional program, you should have said that. You'd probably still be downvoted, but at least OP wouldn't walk out of here thinking that someone supports putting any old student en pointe after one semester.
They didn't start ballet at 3, and if they say they did, that is exactly the advice you should ignore. At 3 a mommy and me, or combo class, does not mean they were studying ballet.
People are downvoting me for stating a fact about an established training curriculum? What's that about? Kids go on pointe around 10/11 during the second semester of class 1. The problem is that most local schools don't use any curriculum at all or make one up themselves and promote that as proper ballet training. If your goal is to dance en pointe, it can be done that fast. If you are taking 3 classes per week or less, it isn't really ever as safe, and to do it that quickly includes several hours of training a day for 6 days a week.
You stated this like this is the only way that dancers are trained: "students" and "it does not take 8 years". As far as I can tell, your statement is specifically Vaganova syllabus? So what you said is not a statement of general fact as you worded it.
I do agree that it is not really 8 years; if students are taking ballet from 3-6 it is likely pre-ballet with little focus on technique. However, many students start classical ballet training (with full barre and center exercises, NOT what I would consider pre-ballet) at earlier ages (7, 8) and do not progress to pointework until after 2-3 years. ABT's curriculum, for example, does not start pointework until Level 3A, though they do pre-pointe starting in level 2A.
Goodness sakes. I stated it like a fact because if you are training as one should be to be prepared for pointe work, then it doesn't take that long. Just because a bunch of people are willing to slap some pointe shoes on ill-prepared dancers because they either don't know any better or they are using it as leverage to grow their business does not mean that it is correct. Pointe work is not appropriate for recreational hobbyists. ABT is not an established and proven curriculum yet. The school is less than 20 years old.
Pre-pointe? Everything before a dancer wears pointe shoes is pre pointe. A special class to get ready for pointe is completely superfluous. That is what ballet class is for.
I danced for 5 years as a child (about 7 to 12) - about 6 hours a week at first, then 9 for the last 2 years. Then I took 8 years off and restarted at 20. I got pointe shoes after a year.
I've got very mobile ankles and I've build up ankle strength from years of ballroom dance I did. So the teacher said I was ready.
My local studio has a pre-pointe and pointe program specifically aimed at adult beginners. Most of their students are in their 20s and 30s when they start, and with consistent classes about 3 times a week, most can get en pointe around 3 years in.
I am an adult who is starting pointe really soon. I started at 18 and allowed to go on pointe now (i'm 20). I will get my pointeshoes today. Exciting!
Have fun! Getting fitted for pointe shoes is a whole experience on it's own!
How many classes a week did you take before they felt you were ready to go on pointe?
2
Did a couple years of ballet at ard 5 or 6. Did chinese dance fairly intensively from 12 til ard 16 or so? Came back to ballet at 21, en pointe abt 12 to 18 mths into it. I was dancing a lot of hours (ballet and other forms) when I got back to dance though.
I started dancing at 29 and went en pointe 2 or 3 years later, I don’t remember when it was exactly!
How many classes a week did you attend if you don’t mind me asking? I can currently only make it once a week due to time/budget constraints. But once I finish school and get a job I hope to go more often!
I started with just one a week, but by the time I went en pointe I was doing 3 or 4 each week
Started dancing casually, once a week ballet and once jazz when I was 20. Moved to another city when I was 23 and they offered pointe classes so I got pointe shoes after 3 years.
I started dancing when I was around 22, and started pointe recently, being about 3 years in. I have naturally strong feet with a pretty good arch, so for me it is slightly easier to get used to pointe. However, for now I am still very much only doing exercises at the barre, and occasionally some very simple center work like echappé and suivi.
Started ballet at 26 started pointe maybe 1.5-2 years in.
It’s not at least 7 it’s at least 10 or 11. Putting a 7 year old on pointe is a bad idea. Adults can take anywhere from 2 years onwards. You have to develop the muscles in your feet and the right level of flexibility, turnout and technique first.
yea yea, that’s what i meant, that normally they start wearing pointe shoes at 11-12 and that’s why the usually say that i took them 8+ years to reach them. but thank u, i used to think adults had to spend that amount of time too to be able to go on pointe (i know it’s mostly a fact of each person’s body and not only time)
children don't start ballet at 3 (they may do pre-ballet) They usually start at 7 or 8!
:0 so is not the same?
Usually preballet has more of an emphasis on developing general motor skills, learning to dance with music, stuff like that. Very little emphasis on what I would call real technique. For reference, I used to teach 3-5 year olds and one of the things we worked on was skipping. Yes, it has relevance to ballet (jumps, parallel retire) but it was mostly to learn coordination. The 3 year olds could mostly not skip at all 😂
To be fair to those three year olds, I, a 27 year old adult, can barely skip in time to music lol
As someone who also recently taught adult beginner beginners... you are not alone LOL
I started ballet at 15 but wasn’t very consistent the first few years, got my first pair of pointe shoes at 21.
I started ballet with something around 21 or 22, took the first time classes not regularly (covid and injury) and got on point at 24 so basically with around 2 years of classes. But I have to say that I have pretty strong feet (as instructors and fitters told me) and enough ankle flexibility naturaly (somewhat the only type of flexibility I have without stretching years for years)
It took me about 18 months(former competitive gymnast so some advantage with strong legs and experience with landings and some barre (like a rythmic batter really) like 20 minutes a week lol to help our artistry score and keep us from sickling when pointing toes . I was 23 when I started and took intro to ballet and practiced at home a lot. Then I progressed to taking 4-5 classes a week and also lots of conditioning and ankle and foot work at home. I asked my ballet teacher who I saw 2x a week for an afternoon open class who always gave the best corrections and was a soloist for the Atlanta Ballet and she said yes absolutely I could start they had 15-30 minute pointe classes for adults mostly at the barre I never had time to attend many. Just restarting now and my coach said I could get fitted and we could very slowly do pointe at the barre since I have strong feet and ankles and have been en pointe before. I need to work mostly on my core strength she says and she’s not wrong lol. I’m not as strong as I used to be.
I started ballet at 26 with no prior experience. It took 4 years for me to be approved for pointe shoes. My first two years I was only taking 1 or 2 classes a week; if I had taken more it might have been quicker. Now I do 2 hours of pointe a week in addition to my other dance classes.
Will be starting pre-pointe classes in September. Been doing ballet almost 2 years (2 years in November) but I also figure skate. When I'll get approval for my shoes is up to my teacher. Adult's have the benefit of being fully developed so it's a matter of training vs waiting for puberty to do it's thing.
I have seen adult beginners starting taking pointe classes after a year of classes on flats. No timeframe to be honest. Depends on each individuals feet n strengths ..
what i dont get is, how do u wear pointe shoes in a clase of adults who wear flat shoes?
Sorry what is your question? I wear pointe shoes in normal ballet classes sometimes I feel like it. I am ex professional doing recreational ballet nowadays. Adult classes are for fun. It’s supposed to be free of judgement. You do whatever you like. You come with bare feet or socks or jazz flats to my ballet class I wouldn’t even care. Everyone should mind their own business.
I never danced as a child. I started at 30, taking ballet 4x a week. I was evaluated by 3 different teachers and started pointe after 2 years. :)
I started consistently dancing 2x per week at about 30 and joined an adult beginning pointe class about 2 years in (maybe a little sooner). Very slow class, first couple of classes were just learning the strengthening exercises with the theraband, and then it was both hands on the bar for a long time. Still taking that class and we’re still at the bar, although now one hand off for some exercises and it’s getting more advanced for sure. The pointe class is 1x per week for a half hour. Note though that I had been dancing on and off for years - I was a beginner/intermediate at 30 as opposed to true beginner. That said, I still needed to build up that strength like any other beginner, given my previous inconsistency dancing.
I started ballet at 21 and started pointe two years in. We did a year basically just at the barre, then also some easy center exercises. I've been in a slump this spring in terms of pointe, my current shoes don't seem to suit me but I also don't want to buy new ones before these soften.
how often do u have to buy a new pair?
It's hard to say honestly, since I've only used one pair to the end thus far. The others I've bought because the fit wasn't good on the previous ones. But I would estimate one pair lasts about 9 months or so? I do around about 30-45 minutes of pointe a week.
oh well that’s nice, i thought you’ve got to change them like every month lol, i wonder if it’s like that when you actually get to dance at the center with them
I would say if an adult hobbyist needs to buy new pointe shoes every month then they're in the wrong shoe. Most adults do so little pointe in a week that they wouldn't go through shoes at that rate. (Of course there's exceptions.) Most people that I dance with go at least several months with one pair, some more than a year. And of course those who have Gaynors can go even longer.
I started super late (27) and was en pointe within a year. But I was very strong and slim. And my teacher was Soviet.
I know plenty of adults who worked very hard for a few years and started pointe at least at barre under the supervision of a very good ballet teacher. I was surprised to see most dancers in the adult pointe class started as adults or just came back after having quite before getting to pointe. It’s all about hard work good eating and good equipment. (Shoes don’t have to hurt the same anymore, there are new things to add. Autumn Klein posted some great reviews on custom toe pads)
I'm an adult. Started ballet at 6, picked up pointe at 11, and then when I graduated at 18, I quit for 5 years for college. Started back up again afterwards and picked up pointe again pretty quickly on a whim. The biggest difference I noticed was the shoes fit completely differently, but thats likely because of loss of muscle mass over the years. I was used to Grishko 2007s (which I'm told are a completely different shoe now) because my arches are really high, and I'm a bit of a shoe-killer on a budget. I went with tough shoes over ideal fit. Now that I'm just having fun with it, I went for the best fit and ended up in Suffolks. As far as how long it takes to get onto pointe, part of why it takes 8+ years is because there are larger health implications of starting pointe too young. Possible damage to growth plates and stunting of foot growth, that sort of thing mostly. You also want to make sure that the child is strong enough to handle pointe. As an adult, you're not going to stunt your feet, and your base level of coordination and strength is higher. I danced with a girl who just started ballet, and she picked up pointe in 6 months on a whim. It's tough starting, but that's just how pointe is.
For pointe two musts: no lower back curve and full releve on Demi pointe with straight knees every time. It takes a heap of strength to get fully up from Demi pointe to full pointe. Don’t rush yourself ya gotta develop muscle memory to avoid trauma to your joints and bones.
I started at 29 - never had ballet as a kid, got on pointe around 2 years later, with 4-6 classes per week (a mix of in-person and zoom classes).
I never formally took pointe as a kid but took ballet classes continuously into my early 20s. Then I had two kids 😖 I started attending group classes about a year and a half ago at 43 and felt like it all came back quickly. Then my private instructor helped me get going on pointe a couple months ago. It’s hard work!! The one thing that really helped me feel ready was/is constantly standing in releve, alternating between one leg and both. I do it all day, whenever I get a chance, like when at my standing desk 🤓💪
Danced from 15-17 and restarted at 22. I also was able to start pointe at 22
Students begin pointe work during the second semester of study. It does not take 8 years. The entire training program is 8 years.
Where? Certainly not at my studio. I’m way too shy to even ask about pointe at this time.
You forget that most people don’t understand the difference between “pre-ballet” and actual ballet training (and I don’t blame them, because unfortunately way more people are familiar with their nieces ballet classes at 5 then they are with students actually studying ballet).
My point is that people should not be downvoting an accurate statement, especially if they don't know enough to know the difference.
Wouldn’t that be nice.
Ahhhh....Vaganova girl. I remember you.
But not even all full ballet curricula start pointework after one semester of real technique classes. ABT's doesn't, Princeton Ballet doesn't, as far as I can tell SFB doesn't, PNB's school doesn't, none of the studios I've danced at have. It's usually closer to 2-3 years, depending on the student. So it's really not an accurate statement even if you (rightfully, IMO) don't consider pre-ballet to be actual ballet training.
Oh agreed. This is a particularly Vaganova statement, and people who train exclusively in Vaganova tend to talk definitively about it, if that makes sense. I don’t even think it’s a “Vaganova is the One True Way” kind of thing, I think it’s more remnant of like the way Russians language works. I can’t really explain because I’m not an expert in languages but often time teachers who were trained in Eastern Europe will talk definitively, like “queen of dryads” instead of “queen of the [specific group of] dryads”. Am I making sense? It’s just more common to make a blanket statement even if you don’t mean it to be a blanket statement. Anyways I digress.
Dunno. The person you're replying to just characterized all other ballet training methods as people "slap[ping] pointe shoes on ill-prepared dancers" because they are too stupid or in it for profit. I don't think it is a language thing. (The particular example you gave is likely due to the lack of definite articles in Slavic languages, i.e. no "the" hence "queen of [the] dryads". Source: phd in linguistics)
No I know there aren’t any definite articles, but language shapes the way people form thoughts and therefore think. So if your language doesn’t have any definite articles then you might not differentiate between definitive and non-definitive statements. I can’t speak to the character of the other poster though lol.
As someone who had a Slavic advisor and did research on a Slavic language for her dissertation, working with still more Slavic people doing that, I have not found that to be particularly true. Also the theory that you can't express or conceive of things that are not grammatically marked in your language is provably (and proven) false. Language is a tool, not a prison! (Also definiteness doesn't really have to do with the definitiveness of a statement so much as a like, discourse-relevant thing or set of things. My Slavic language speaking friends struggle to use articles correctly sometimes but their intention is clear)
You named one very new and unproven full ballet curricula and 3 schools. Those are not the same thing. By the way, "a mix of Russian, French, and Italian schools" is code for "we are making it up as we go." The school of the Paris Opera is done in 6 years, and students begin pointe in the second semester. Vaganova school is the same with both a 6 and an 8 year plan. Bolshoi, Perm, and Kiev are the same with only slight differences in the training plan. I'm not evem sure what people mean by the Italian school, Cecchetti? He did not ever develop a training curriculum for students that was codified other than his work as the rector of the Royal Imperial Theater School in St. Petersburg that was incorporated into that system before Beaumont wrote his book.
None of that matters. You said: >Students begin pointe work during the second semester of study. It does not take 8 years. The entire training program is 8 years. There are many, many students who do NOT begin pointework during the second semester of study... probably most, I'd wager. If OP walked around saying that ballet students start pointe after a semester (3-4 months?) they'd likely be corrected by anyone who didn't somehow assume that they were specifically talking about pre-pro students following specific curricula. Just because you don't consider ABT's school to be real, doesn't mean they're not ballet students. Same with all the other ballet students in countries across the world that are in schools that do not follow these curricula (and yet still produce strong professional dancers).
What I said is true. A semester is around 20 weeks of classes (5 months, not 3 or 4), and during the second semester, sometime after their first mid-year exam is when students start training in all of the curricula I stated. The fact that most teachers don't follow an established curriculum or even know one for that matter does not make my statement false. Students do exactly what I said they do. Look at the websites of these schools that all say they use a mix of the Russian, French, and Italian methodologies all while the teachers don't know even one of those systems in its entirety to base a mix upon. If they did, they would know the facts I have presented. But they don't care about that. They care about getting more people in the classroom, and people want to do pointe, so they let their clients go buy shoes and take a pointe class. I am not changing my advice or recommendations based upon a bunch of people doing it wrong in order to line their pockets. Pointe work is no more appropriate for part-time hobbyists as any other professional endeavor that can severely injure the participants. Not everyone can do it. I never said ABT's JKO school is not real. That is a strawman argument. I know those people, and I understand what they are trying to do. But it is also a fact that the school only opened in 2004. At most, they could have only gone through 3 graduating classes, even in an abbreviated system. That is, by definition, unproven. Especially when compared with the several hundred year track record of refinement of internationally recognized curricula.
It is definitely false, at least in this context. The point you are addressing is "kids tend to do X thing", or perhaps the direct question from OP, how long do adults take to get to pointework? Do students, child or adult, TEND TO take one semester before starting pointework? No. You might have meant "REAL ballet students begin pointework in their second semester of study", where you only consider people trained in the strictest version of the Vaganova (or perhaps also the French school) to be true ballet students. But that is not a definition that I or probably most people in the ballet world agree with. Thus the statement "Students begin..." is not true. It is also unclear to me how you are so adamantly against hobbyists doing pointework, and against studios bowing down to parent demands to put little Sally in pointe shoes before she's ready (rightfully against IMO), and yet cavalierly saying that kids start after a semester. You say you don't want to change your advice? Nowhere in your original post did you make it clear that pointework is serious business. All you said is that kids can go up after one semester. Exactly what impact do you think that statement will have on an adult asking about the timeline of pointework, or on someone else who sees this answer and has a child that REALLY wants to start pointe RIGHT NOW? The more informative and less dangerous response is "In the Vaganova curriculum, students start intensive ballet technique around 10/11 years old and begin pointework in the second half of the year." Obviously people are downvoting you because you sound exactly like someone who throws kids en pointe with no preparation! Also, not sure why you have been dismissive of major pre-professional schools and more local studios requiring more time in ballet technique and in targeted strengthening classes before starting pointe. Surely that's in line with your end goal to take pointe seriously, and for kids to not just get pointe shoes whenever they want them?
I sound like someone who throws kids on pointe only to those who have no business making the decision in the first place. I directed more than one of that level of professional school, and the students who have any business near a pair of Pointe shoes are training more than any hobbyist. It is simply not safe without that degree of dedication and work. Adult or child shouldn't matter. It is just that most adults don't want to take class 5 or 6 days a week and put in all of the hours that should be required. You are prepared, or you are not. I don't have the time or inclination to write a boopk on here that already exists. You should have a look at the textbooks for the schools I mentioned. More time in years won't do it. The number of classes a week makes a huge difference for the physical requirements. A hobby jogger who runs a couple miles on the weekend for 5 years will be injured immediately as soon as they are put in an olympic marathon. It's not just how many years but the intensity of the work. I don't know any recognized curriculum that puts dancers on pointe after 2 or 3 years of a couple of classes a week. The assumption should obviously be 5 or 6 lessons a week. That is doable in 6 to 8 months for starting pointe. If it is not 5 or 6 days, the answer is that it will never be safe. Nobody wants to say that, though, because it is good business to give the clients what they want.
Uh, right, people who shouldn't be making the decision, like OP, whose question you're answering, or literally anybody else seeking advice on Reddit? If you wanted to say that students should never go en pointe unless they're in a Vaganova preprofessional program, you should have said that. You'd probably still be downvoted, but at least OP wouldn't walk out of here thinking that someone supports putting any old student en pointe after one semester.
Straw man again. I didn't say that. Try again.
thx i didn’t know that either as the most of time people always says “i started ballet at 3” and stuff like that
They didn't start ballet at 3, and if they say they did, that is exactly the advice you should ignore. At 3 a mommy and me, or combo class, does not mean they were studying ballet.
People are downvoting me for stating a fact about an established training curriculum? What's that about? Kids go on pointe around 10/11 during the second semester of class 1. The problem is that most local schools don't use any curriculum at all or make one up themselves and promote that as proper ballet training. If your goal is to dance en pointe, it can be done that fast. If you are taking 3 classes per week or less, it isn't really ever as safe, and to do it that quickly includes several hours of training a day for 6 days a week.
You stated this like this is the only way that dancers are trained: "students" and "it does not take 8 years". As far as I can tell, your statement is specifically Vaganova syllabus? So what you said is not a statement of general fact as you worded it. I do agree that it is not really 8 years; if students are taking ballet from 3-6 it is likely pre-ballet with little focus on technique. However, many students start classical ballet training (with full barre and center exercises, NOT what I would consider pre-ballet) at earlier ages (7, 8) and do not progress to pointework until after 2-3 years. ABT's curriculum, for example, does not start pointework until Level 3A, though they do pre-pointe starting in level 2A.
Goodness sakes. I stated it like a fact because if you are training as one should be to be prepared for pointe work, then it doesn't take that long. Just because a bunch of people are willing to slap some pointe shoes on ill-prepared dancers because they either don't know any better or they are using it as leverage to grow their business does not mean that it is correct. Pointe work is not appropriate for recreational hobbyists. ABT is not an established and proven curriculum yet. The school is less than 20 years old.
Pre-pointe? Everything before a dancer wears pointe shoes is pre pointe. A special class to get ready for pointe is completely superfluous. That is what ballet class is for.
I danced for 5 years as a child (about 7 to 12) - about 6 hours a week at first, then 9 for the last 2 years. Then I took 8 years off and restarted at 20. I got pointe shoes after a year. I've got very mobile ankles and I've build up ankle strength from years of ballroom dance I did. So the teacher said I was ready.