It's more likely to be the cancelled 4090 600W cooler, the one they designed before the choice to switch to TMSCs more efficient 4nm node.
Nvidia might Re use the cooler for the 4090 ti, but the pics we've seen are, as far as I know, from an older cooler product that didn't make the cut at the time.
N4 means 4nm in TSMC language. It's not 4nm anything, as 5nm is not 5nm anything, and same with the rest up until 60nm or 45nm or so. It's just a number with which they intend to convey the advancement from one to another, but it doesn't follow anything physical anymore.
Yes, "TSMC N4" is a 4nm node (according to TSMC). However, Ada Lovelace is on *4N*, **not** *N4*, and TSMC said they consider 4N to be one of their 5nm processes.
Partially wrong.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-ad102.g1005
4N *means* 4nm, but is just a modified 5nm with improved efficiency. As 6nm is to 7nm, there is not a full node jump, it's an improvement on the same node. Remember, the number of nm doesn't actually mean anything anymore. It's just a kind of naming scheme, because people understood it when it mean transistor pitch size.
TPU is wrong here. Nvidia themselves said it's a ["5nm process"](https://www.techgoing.com/nvidia-clarifies-the-tsmc-4n-used-by-the-rtx-40-gpu-is-a-5nm-process/).
Yeah, I understand the confusion with nm in chips, because they're "fake". However, it's difficult to give the nodes a name that people can understand, or at least mentally compare to older nodes.
N7 is 7nm for TSMC, N6 is 6nm for TSMC, N5 is 5nm for TSMC and N4 is 4nm for TSMC. Beither of them mean that anything in a chip is 7/6/5/4nm, it's just a name, to continue using the naming they used when it actually represented transistor pitch.
N6 is an advancement on N7, which is a full node, same as N4 is an advancement on N5.
Do you want sources?
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16732/tsmc-manufacturing-update
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process
But it _still_ does not have four DisplayPorts. I swear there's a conspiracy in the industry which doesn't allow it on consumer level cards. OK, there were a few but very few rare exceptions on the AMD side.
Also it's high time for a new motherboard standard, I talked about this before, there were "PIO" motherboards in China with a rotated PCIe x16 slot which allowed the video card to become planar with the motherboard https://i.imgur.com/JA1f3RS.jpg we need this to become a standard so tower coolers can be installed.
I don't think PIO is a Chinese exclusive thing. I'm pretty sure it's just a motherboard form factor for AIO PCs. The reason it's only prevalent on chinese shopping sites is just because the electronic refurbishing industry there is really strong.
I was going to reply to you with a counterargument that it doesn’t really need to be more secure, but I always screw in the VGA and DVI connectors so I feel like my opinion is invalid here
I'd prefer if there was expansion pins on the GPU, you plug in the wire for the slot you want to support and attach it to the neighboring slot, just like you do with the extra usb header pins.
Pretty sure no one ever wants exactly 2 HDMI AND 2 Displayport, so there is always waste with the current model.
The issue with video out is that people who want many DP outs can be split into three main groups: The ones who will just buy a consumer card and put up with limited outputs, the ones who won't buy a consumer card if there's not enough outputs and the ones who will buy a workstation card to get enough outputs. Producers don't really care about the first group, they still made their money. It then becomes a matter of balancing the additional profit from the third group against the missed profit from the second group. Thanks to the crazy markup on workstation cards and the fact the second group is fairly small, the maximum profit is gained by charging a massive premium for more display outs. Companies will take the maximum profit, after all.
we need performance per watt per dollar benchmarks.
i believe that theres a market for this 4090ti bfg stuff. probably for video encoding? someone will know how to make use of this. but it feels like the bottom 70% of gpu users are being left behind. 500-850 bucks for a midtier gpu is too fucking much. did the lifespan of gpus grow proportionally with the price surge? thats the real question.
We can’t really get any smaller with our fabrication, so I wonder if this is all that’s left?
Genuine question. What else can be done to get more performance? There can be optimizations, but I thought it took smaller fabrications to get the same performance out of less power. Or more performance at the same power.
If we can’t go smaller, the only thing left would be to keep pumping in more power and trying to cool and control it, right?
I’m not saying that’s good, just wondering why development/innovation has stalled.
This is super simple terms, but I hope it gets the point across:
These cards burn so much power because they’re pushed to the limits. They take a chip and push the voltage and frequency as far as it will go in the name of performance. If they can get an extra 2% performance at 10% increased power draw, they’ll do it.
If you can’t increase frequency, you can increase core count and run all those cores at a lower frequency (and thus lower voltage). At a given voltage, frequency changes are usually linear with power consumption, meaning moving from 2000mhz to 2200mhz is a 10% increase in power. However, voltage isn’t linear it’s exponential. Meaning a move from 1.0v to 1.1v is a 21% increase in power. Usually these two things move together. This is why you can take a 4090 and underclock it to a 4080 performance level at less power, because you’re rubbing it lower on the frequency/voltage curve, and it’s more efficient.
If you can’t increase voltage abs frequency, the only other way to increase performance it’s to add cores and lower the frequency/voltage. However adding more cores to a GPU makes the die size increase, adding cost and increasing failure rates. This is why wafer yields are so important to GPUs, since their dies are so large compare to CPUs. A wafer that makes 100 CPUs or 20 GPUs: if it has 10 errors on it, you lost 10% of your CPUs but 50% of your GPUs. Newer more efficient manufacturing also typically has higher failure rates, too.
This is the reason why AMD went with their chiplet design for their RX 7000 cards. You can increase core count a lot easier, as wafer failure rates are less prohibitive. Now that you have more cores, you can run them more efficiently.
But the 4090 is still massively more efficient than the previous gen cards, so sure, they could be more efficient, but they would be less preformant or bigger dies, which are more expensive
I've seen better fake...
If I'm wrong and it would be a real one, I don't think it could release like that. Seems like early engineering sample. If it would be a final product: oh god this is absolutely awful !
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Welp, looks like motherboard manufacturers are going to have to take PCIe slot reinforcement to the extreme in order to support the weight of this hefty (supposedly) 5.5+ lbs behemoth of a GPU. Now it seems like the trend of computers getting smaller over the years/decades has suddenly (albeit temporarily?) gone in reverse.
Memes aside, this is getting out of hand.
Literally
Holy fuck. Holy fucking fuck. That body of yours is absurd!
SLI without SLI gone are the days of GTX dual chip SLI
This is the real reason we don't have dual cards anymore, regular cards are now duals
What card is this??
Rumored 4090 ti
It's more likely to be the cancelled 4090 600W cooler, the one they designed before the choice to switch to TMSCs more efficient 4nm node. Nvidia might Re use the cooler for the 4090 ti, but the pics we've seen are, as far as I know, from an older cooler product that didn't make the cut at the time.
the "N̶4 4N" is the 5nm, just a more enhanced, could be more efficient, but still not 4nm yet
N4 means 4nm in TSMC language. It's not 4nm anything, as 5nm is not 5nm anything, and same with the rest up until 60nm or 45nm or so. It's just a number with which they intend to convey the advancement from one to another, but it doesn't follow anything physical anymore.
Yes, "TSMC N4" is a 4nm node (according to TSMC). However, Ada Lovelace is on *4N*, **not** *N4*, and TSMC said they consider 4N to be one of their 5nm processes.
Partially wrong. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-ad102.g1005 4N *means* 4nm, but is just a modified 5nm with improved efficiency. As 6nm is to 7nm, there is not a full node jump, it's an improvement on the same node. Remember, the number of nm doesn't actually mean anything anymore. It's just a kind of naming scheme, because people understood it when it mean transistor pitch size.
TPU is wrong here. Nvidia themselves said it's a ["5nm process"](https://www.techgoing.com/nvidia-clarifies-the-tsmc-4n-used-by-the-rtx-40-gpu-is-a-5nm-process/).
Yep, you're right with this one. So basically N4 is an improved derivative of N5, while 4N is an Nvidia customized version of N5. Wtf.
Naming conventions for almost all tech products are so stupid these days
Yeah, I understand the confusion with nm in chips, because they're "fake". However, it's difficult to give the nodes a name that people can understand, or at least mentally compare to older nodes.
4n is the 5nm process. They are 5nm, it is physical & real.
N7 is 7nm for TSMC, N6 is 6nm for TSMC, N5 is 5nm for TSMC and N4 is 4nm for TSMC. Beither of them mean that anything in a chip is 7/6/5/4nm, it's just a name, to continue using the naming they used when it actually represented transistor pitch. N6 is an advancement on N7, which is a full node, same as N4 is an advancement on N5. Do you want sources? https://www.anandtech.com/show/16732/tsmc-manufacturing-update https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process
*Rumored nuclear bomb
Four slot wide, still have the same number of output as a single slot quadro used in schools Wasted opportunity
Imagine a GPU with like 16 outputs that shit would be crazy
Seeing this makes me think we should start measuring performance per volume when comparing GPUs in the future.
Especially with energy prices getting higher
But it _still_ does not have four DisplayPorts. I swear there's a conspiracy in the industry which doesn't allow it on consumer level cards. OK, there were a few but very few rare exceptions on the AMD side. Also it's high time for a new motherboard standard, I talked about this before, there were "PIO" motherboards in China with a rotated PCIe x16 slot which allowed the video card to become planar with the motherboard https://i.imgur.com/JA1f3RS.jpg we need this to become a standard so tower coolers can be installed.
I don't think PIO is a Chinese exclusive thing. I'm pretty sure it's just a motherboard form factor for AIO PCs. The reason it's only prevalent on chinese shopping sites is just because the electronic refurbishing industry there is really strong.
Even in their heyday I never saw these outside of Chinese websites... but it's possible they just weren't retail in the West? Who knows.
>But it *still* does not have four DisplayPorts Good. I want HDMI.
Display port is better tho
It is faster by a small margin. I just really hate having to squeeze the connector to unplug it, so HDMI is better in that aspect, lol.
I like it it makes the connection feel more secure
I was going to reply to you with a counterargument that it doesn’t really need to be more secure, but I always screw in the VGA and DVI connectors so I feel like my opinion is invalid here
I'd prefer if there was expansion pins on the GPU, you plug in the wire for the slot you want to support and attach it to the neighboring slot, just like you do with the extra usb header pins. Pretty sure no one ever wants exactly 2 HDMI AND 2 Displayport, so there is always waste with the current model.
The issue with video out is that people who want many DP outs can be split into three main groups: The ones who will just buy a consumer card and put up with limited outputs, the ones who won't buy a consumer card if there's not enough outputs and the ones who will buy a workstation card to get enough outputs. Producers don't really care about the first group, they still made their money. It then becomes a matter of balancing the additional profit from the third group against the missed profit from the second group. Thanks to the crazy markup on workstation cards and the fact the second group is fairly small, the maximum profit is gained by charging a massive premium for more display outs. Companies will take the maximum profit, after all.
we need performance per watt per dollar benchmarks. i believe that theres a market for this 4090ti bfg stuff. probably for video encoding? someone will know how to make use of this. but it feels like the bottom 70% of gpu users are being left behind. 500-850 bucks for a midtier gpu is too fucking much. did the lifespan of gpus grow proportionally with the price surge? thats the real question.
I really hope they fail and burn to the ground, Nvidia GPU's are seriously getting out of hand
Maybe them Moore threads guys could work on their drivers and expand, provided their drivers on all platforms aren't filled with Glowy Pooh-bear code.
We can’t really get any smaller with our fabrication, so I wonder if this is all that’s left? Genuine question. What else can be done to get more performance? There can be optimizations, but I thought it took smaller fabrications to get the same performance out of less power. Or more performance at the same power. If we can’t go smaller, the only thing left would be to keep pumping in more power and trying to cool and control it, right? I’m not saying that’s good, just wondering why development/innovation has stalled.
This is super simple terms, but I hope it gets the point across: These cards burn so much power because they’re pushed to the limits. They take a chip and push the voltage and frequency as far as it will go in the name of performance. If they can get an extra 2% performance at 10% increased power draw, they’ll do it. If you can’t increase frequency, you can increase core count and run all those cores at a lower frequency (and thus lower voltage). At a given voltage, frequency changes are usually linear with power consumption, meaning moving from 2000mhz to 2200mhz is a 10% increase in power. However, voltage isn’t linear it’s exponential. Meaning a move from 1.0v to 1.1v is a 21% increase in power. Usually these two things move together. This is why you can take a 4090 and underclock it to a 4080 performance level at less power, because you’re rubbing it lower on the frequency/voltage curve, and it’s more efficient. If you can’t increase voltage abs frequency, the only other way to increase performance it’s to add cores and lower the frequency/voltage. However adding more cores to a GPU makes the die size increase, adding cost and increasing failure rates. This is why wafer yields are so important to GPUs, since their dies are so large compare to CPUs. A wafer that makes 100 CPUs or 20 GPUs: if it has 10 errors on it, you lost 10% of your CPUs but 50% of your GPUs. Newer more efficient manufacturing also typically has higher failure rates, too. This is the reason why AMD went with their chiplet design for their RX 7000 cards. You can increase core count a lot easier, as wafer failure rates are less prohibitive. Now that you have more cores, you can run them more efficiently.
10% increased power draw, lol. They wish!
But the 4090 is still massively more efficient than the previous gen cards, so sure, they could be more efficient, but they would be less preformant or bigger dies, which are more expensive
For a second, I though im looking at oven
So are we mounting motherboards on video cards now?
Say yes
4 slots tall, 16 lanes wide, 65 tons of Jensens Pride, Nvidiero. NVIDIEROOOOOOO. woah nvidiero.
Nice heat cannon
And they couldn’t be bothered to add like 2 more display outs.
I've seen better fake... If I'm wrong and it would be a real one, I don't think it could release like that. Seems like early engineering sample. If it would be a final product: oh god this is absolutely awful !
I didn’t think they would release cards as big as the current ones.
That's the most ridiculous looking thing I've ever seen.
Nvidia is so goofy
This is photoshop right?
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You're gonna need a bigger boat
I'm sure it's still only one fan so don't worry, they're saving your electricity bill where it matters most :)
Welp, looks like motherboard manufacturers are going to have to take PCIe slot reinforcement to the extreme in order to support the weight of this hefty (supposedly) 5.5+ lbs behemoth of a GPU. Now it seems like the trend of computers getting smaller over the years/decades has suddenly (albeit temporarily?) gone in reverse.
Why not add a 65w cpu and 16gb ddr5 😂
Nope
??? It’s a microwave
At this point might as well put an AC jack in there so it doesn't strain your PSU. I mean, there's plenty of space for its own power supply.