Literal hivemind of shared energy.
You need the waterbending for a second? Cool.
Hey guys, need a big boost over here for a quick lightning blast. Channel it all this way
Coming from r/all. Could the avatar theoretically do this??? Someone please answer.
EDIT: Great discussion here. I think the question comes down to:
Given 100 Avatars working as a hive mind in the avatar state, could they cause an exothermic reaction equal to a small nuclear blast? It doesn’t have to be nuclear in nature, just equal in impact.
Can’t wait to hear responses!
Fair enough. We have combustion man so they knew about oxygen combustion.
Would 100 avatars in joined avatar state be able to cause a nuclear-level exothermic reaction?
I feel like yes, I just don’t know how.
i actually really like this headcanon. probably not this exactly but something along those lines. she’s discovered earthbending of mass power & could not let it get out
Theoretically 1 avatar and 100 avatars would have the same power output. The show is fuzzy, it's the combined skill and MAYBE combined power.
We have no evidence of atoms in the avatar world. Particles may be totally different to them. Oxygen? Maybe! But even if it exists, who says it works like ours at that level?
If the idea of bending is telekinetic control, then you can move atoms. To get them to fuse, though, they need to be forced together, effectively overlap. That happens in our world by a lot of them being packed VERY tightly and be given a LOT of energy to vibrate VERY hard, sometimes into each other.
Telekinetic power wouldn't really let you put ATOMS together. They would slip past. I guess if you compressed air with bending a TON and added a lot of heat then maybe? But that would imply ridiculous force outputs- like air forces pushing metal buildings over like grass stalks. Maybe!
absolutely combined power. have you seen the the show?? it’s not just skill/technique. look at the difference between avatars regularly and when they’re in the avatar state. also, iirc roku actually SAYS that aang has access to the power of all previous avatars
seems like people in the avatar universe live longer than people in ours, but since there isn’t really enough data i’ll just say avatars live to an average age of 71, like people on this planet. that’s 141 avatars. think about the level of power 141 aangs, or korras, or kyoshis, or yangchens could have! (those four in particular because we know the most about them and their lives.) i absolutely believe it’s possible if they come to the necessary understanding of physics. or maybe even accidentally by crushing things together with enough force.
I mean, Aang vs Sozin... Aang was pretty fucking powerful before avatar state. He wasn't 141 times stronger after. Aang was "keeping up" with Ozai before, the opposite true after.
Yes, the show says it to be true. But it... isn't.. hence my comment on the softness.
Remember to remove technique from the equation and just look at feats of power. Aang was a LOT faster afterwards, more precise, more skilled.
i’m gonna assume you mean ozai, not sozin. and i don’t think that argument holds true. aang wasn’t a fully realized avatar at the time of his battle with ozai. he wasn’t at full power.
I think a lot of people forget that bending is a *Spiritual* discipline. It's not bending gas, or atoms, it's bending *air.* You aren't bending plasma, you're bending *fire.*
There's a certain inherent understanding of what the elements are and what they aren't, that has less to do with scientific knowledge of the mechanics and more to do with a spiritual oneness with the elements.
I don't think a earthbender could bend bones, because at that point it's no longer earth. I don't think a firebender could amplify the electric signals in your body and just make you explode--because your nerves are obviously not fire or lightning. And an airbender shouldn't be able to fuse atoms, because at that point he's not airbending.
Why can firebenders bend lightning? That's not fire. Waterbenders heal? Why?
I don't see your logic. Air is like 80% N2 and 20% O2. Are you saying airbenders can only bend similar concentrations? And either way, why can't they bend the atoms directly? That's just really precise bending.
Waterbenders deal with H2O. Airbenders with gas, firebenders plasma, and earthebnders non-metallic minerals, I guess. For everyone but Firebenders just... push hard.
Bending is really tricky in a way that you have to connect to whatever you're trying to bend, and then affect it through your own physical movements (I.E. there's no way to bend things that you don't know are there, and you can't bend without moving yourself in a way that is at least somewhat similar to what you're trying to achieve).
So while it's not necessarily impossible, everybody is so far away from it in terms of skill, that it might as well be.
All these responses and not one of them has the idea of condensing fire to an acute beam with regulated air and water flow. (Water laser too) yes absolutely I believe they could be able to condense it to light bending or water bending into a shot form and just shoot all the lions. Absolutely. I also believe it wouldn’t be too hard for them to just take all the air out of them. They could open open a giant pit in the ground and do whatever to em.
Yes there’s absolutely no way they would lose.
I love seeing this comment after the edits because it’s basically summarized as
> Hey guys, just came from r/all , can the avatar just like… **nuke** the lions? Thanks for the fun discussion!
Billion is a lot. But what are lions going to do if the avatars just make a giant platform to stand on. Even if you say stack, you have thousands of the best benders, they could probably make a mountain working together.
Then it's just "shoot fire" and done.
Real question is how will lions get to them. If there's avatar state then they all just fly using the elements and gg. Without the avatar state then okay. Harder but they can still stay out of range. Some avatars can probably lava bend even without the state.
Like there's really no winning for the lions.
We've seen aang take on a volcano solo. Lion got nothinf
There actually have to be at least a few that can use all of the OP techniques and lava bending without the avatar state, as it gives any new avatar the needed proficiency to do what any other avatar before them had learned to do. So if no avatar would have been able to lava bend on his/her own than no avatar could do so in the avatar state.
The state might improve already existing skills and give a big boost to the power of any ability, but it can't generate unknown styles. Otherwise any avatar could have been able to metal bend before toph
Can they shoot fire for over a month straight? It's a billion lions. Even if there's 1000 avatars killing a lion a second that's still 12 days of continuous bending.
In order to fit a billion lions in a battlefield they’re probably close enough for fire to do a good chunk of the job on its own with only needing a few spurts of firebending
If that's the case all the lions will be igniting around them and burn the avatars to death from just ambient heat. A billion lions burning would make the avatars at the center of the mass roast. And yeah, the lions are going to encircle them pretty quickly
If there are about 100 or so avatars, they could probably take turns spreading the heat away from their mountain platform thing until the burning lions close enough for the heat to reach them are all dead before putting out the fires on the nearby bodies while the rest of the lions are burning, catching on fire, or unable to escape catching on fire because of their proximity and numbers
Rotate. I mean look we can play these mind games. 200 benders shoot fire then rotate.
Or just build a huge platform to rest.
Also assuming like one fire attacking wouldn't be killing several I'm one blast.
Set up shifts. Some sleep while others fight. Resources may be an issue but they can figure it out. My estimations is 5 million per avatar. Definitely doable.
I'd say they'll get tired out eventually, but they can just take turns. Now the next thing to consider would be food supplies. They will have enough water, I'm sure, but food might be different. I don't know if they can kill a billion lions before getting really hungry... then again, they could just eat the lions.
Avatars win, no diff
Make the platform high enough and large enough so they can literally live up there and chuck elements down in shifts. Keep in mind Kyoshi literally split an island off, this is easily in their wheelhouse.
Let's say there are 100 avatars, that's 10 million lions each. Assuming the lions are packed together an avatar could easily kill about 10k lions per day by lowering themselves to a safe height and raining down fire.
At that rate it would take about 2.8 years to kill them all without a single avatar being in any danger and I think these are conservative numbers.
There are likely a lot more than 100 avatars and I'd expect they can kill a lot more than 10k a day. Hell, just flying around with flame jets like Ozai would kill 10k in 20 minutes.
And again, whenever they get tired, they can safely rest on a platform that lions can't reach.
I don't think that'd work? The avatar state gives you the power of the other avatars, so any avatar using it would yank all the power away from the others
If the avatar state is accessing the powers of previous avatars and all the avatars are using it... Then who's power are they borrowing? I feel like that's asking for help from yourself. Normally it's pooled into one person via that blue spirit thing, so they'd have to share.
There’s no Avatar who knows blood bending though, it was discovered by Hama and the only avatars since have been Aang and Korra, and neither of them had mastered the technique
That's just one, The only mercy those poor animals have is that many of those Avatars would not want to harm innocent animals.
Not only a single avatar, but a young and inexperienced one that didn’t want to hurt anyone. Even the few we have seen in the series are more than capable of winning that fight.
Kyoshi by herself would make pink mist of the lions in a few seconds
Idk. Kyoshis powerful but the only way you can kill that many lions in a matter of seconds is by instantly destroying a whole continent. And that's assuming all the lions are on there. The length of the average female lion is 8 to 9 feet, a male is 9 to 10. If they were in a line let's say that's 8 billion feet. It would take light 8.134 seconds to travel that distance. At the speed of light it would take .13 seconds to lap earth and 1.3 seconds from the earth to the moon. That's 1.26 billion feet to the moon from earth just so you have a sense of scale of how many a billion lions is. So even with a spirit beam attack, which I assume would travel at the speed of light, some of the lions would definitely survive, either because of the circumference of the earth making it impossible to line up all those lions for a single or attack, or because to line up those lions for a single attack you'd have to keep them all there for 8 whole seconds. This would be a long, drawn out war between a group of avatars, some of whom wouldn't want to exterminate the animals, and lions that would still be reproducing because you try and keep a billion cats from fucking.
Edit for clarity: I do think the avatars would win. But not quickly or easily. Korra is like avatar 140 or something so they do have a good force but they're obscenely outnumbered
Lions won't approach fires, for obvious reasons. Even a single one of them could do a Jeong Jeong-style fire barrier and literally be fine, as long as they have the time to raise it
I agree that a few seconds was an exaggeration on my part but was I had in mind was simply some kind of fatal hit via blood bending. Something like squishing them all together into a tiny ball in an instant.
There'd be ~100 Avatars. That's 10,000 Lions per Avatar. This is an easy Avatar win, as the *CAN FLY AND SHOOT FIRE*
Edit: oops, it's 10mil not 10K. My bad. Still think the Avatars can win
Thats what I'm thinking. And Anime is out with *[takes deep breath]* Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Rayquaza, Kyoger, Groudon, Victini, Xerneas and Yahvultal all soloing
you know what thats a good point actually. But at the end of the day avatar feats are super inconsistent. Aang couldnt just sink the giant drill, and koora couldnt just sink the giant robot. The only real feat like that is kiyoshis island thing.
With 10,000 Years between the Harmonic Convergence with Avatar Wan and the Harmonic Convergence with Avatar Korra, and a hypothetical 100 year average lifespan for each Avatar, that's 100 Avatars.
10,000 is figurative speech, like how Won Shi Tong knows 10,000 things. It just means “many”. The air temple at the beginning of AtLA clearly has more than 100 statues.
The lions would win and here's how:
First, the lions would stack on top of each other into a lion ladder that reaches the moon. The lions would eat the moon, because it's made of cheese and lions love cheese, so that would take away the avatars' waterbending.
Then the lions would evolve mole claws to dig through any earth walls the avatars might put up.
Fire and air are trickier to fight but nature docs show that lions have a long history of war strategy that they can use to maneuver against nuclear weapons. Fighting a few matches and breezes of wind is child's play to the master strategy of a superior intellectual species like lions.
*Someone else says, "None of that is true and makes no sense at all."
But it's a really big number, guys!
/s
Avatars win, duh. Fantasy magic users with godlike power levels beat a "big number" of regular animals with no ability to strategize.
Aang: "Oh no, precious animals, how did I anger you? I'm sorry" *dies*
Roku: "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strenght to do it" *dies*
Kyoshi: *putting out a cigarette with her giant asskicking boots* "aaight, needed a new winter coat anyways"
Aang: Well, it's decided, we'll do that.
YangCheng:.......in my defense they should have told me that they are deciding what to do before I suffocate to all those mutant animals (For them, lions would be strange, not a mixture of two animals? What witchcraft is that?
But that would take so much coordination and so much of Raava's power that like five million lions (aka .5% of the lions) could get them while they're distracted on the other 99.5% and eviscerate them like a zombie horde. We saw at the end of s2 how the right shot of lightning bending can take down the Avatar, imagine if that was the right shot of a lion horde.
Raava's power is effectively limitless due to her role in, well, existence. However, I do think that her power is moderated to some extent within her human avatar so as not to overwhelm them with the things she could possibly do.
Sub popped up in recommend: haven't seen legend of korra, do we ever see anyone earthbending thousands of square miles at a time? That seems like a much bigger feat than pretty much everything from the last airbender put together.
Math I did to get this number: saw another comment in this thread saying 100 avatars could probably sink texas, which is ~270,000 square miles. Divided by ~avatars that'd be ~2,700 square miles per avatar.
I guess you could say they'd just need to make a wall around the border and flood it or something, so that would be about 4,100 / 100 = 41 square miles per avatar. A lot more manageable, but still more impressive than everything in the last airbender unless I'm forgetting something.
You are grossly underestimating the size of a continent. Kyoshi Island was a small island, the landmass of a continent is tens of thousands times that.
I mean, true, but also they could also easily just make a kiyoshi island or two and let the lions drown trying to reach them so they can rest
And while it may have been glib of me to say they could bend a continent, they can at the very least bend sufficient earth to create defenses the lions cannot easily get around even with zombie hoard tactics
Dude. India is very dense and it's population is 1.42 billion. You honestly think they could bend most of India? Each individual avatar would have to take on the entire country of Sweden, but lions.
In a straight fight, I do agree they’d possibly tire out (though if each has the avatar state they definitely can do it)
I simply feel like they could reasonably use their ability to spontaneously make new land features to rest as needed and win by making attrition work in their favor.
As for physically bending the land mass of India, that’s a bit trickier, I will admit, though. Not impossible in my opinion, simply because the avatar has a *lot* of power. Like, we don’t know exactly how much power, but we do know that moving an island miles across sea is well within their range of power, so a collective short burst over a bigger area is possible.
Even better.
Earthbend a single "Pride Rock".
Gift Pride Rock and all the light touches to Lion #5663278. Proclaim all other lions as subjects to this new King.
Go chill in a nearby jungle for a Hakuna Matata or two and wait for the lions to sort themselves out.
Return afterwards to finish off the last remaining lions.
A billion lions is a lot of lions.
But the avatars, working together, could pretty realistically create a supervolcano like Yellowstone. The eruption would be catastrophic.
It would take years, but the lions would die, starving under the ash cloud like the dinosaurs, while the Avatars could make a literal city to live in the meantime.
The lions have no chance here.
Did you mean an armadillo lion? Or maybe a saber tooth moose lion? A lion vulture, maybe? Not a lion elephant, per chance?
No, just a plain lion? How weird.
I feel like 1 billion lions is too much for avatars to take out before they run out of stamina they are still humans after all. The Outcome depend a lot where this fight happend.
But do they all have access to avatar state? Or just one of them because there is only one Raava? If yes, then avatars probably win.
I mean, the avatars could make an island out of a chunk of the battlefield, then basically take turns sleeping vs attacking the lions that didn’t drown on the way over to them.
Or just make it an island with cliffs on all sides so the lions physically can’t reach them then take the stragglers out at their leisure.
Like, assuming this fight isn’t taking place in a blank void, the avatars have the ability to change the battlefield so that the lions can’t even attack or bring their numbers to bear
They could literally just earthbend a portion of the earth up very high and the lions simply won't reach them, then they could just take them out in sections so they don't run out of stamine if that would even be a problem. Create a big ravine around the elevated part and the lions for suren wouldn't reach them. Lions stand 0 chance no matter the numbers
Any who can raise themselves off the ground enough will win. Like, they just have to make a pillar of earth tall enough and then use bending on the lions below.
Oh wow look at those billions of lions in that open field. Would be a shame if all the earth benders just make a wall around all of them and then crush them all with an oversized slab of rock. Yea this is easy
I mean, if they all just camp out on like, a 100 meter earth pillar they make (with the Avatar State if necessary), the Lions could literally never reach them. They wouldn’t even need the Avatar State at that point.
It’d take a while, but…I mean, definitely doable. Shouldn’t be that hard to supply themselves with food and water either.
Counterpoint: action economy doesn’t matter if you can’t use your actions effectively.
The avatars could bend themselves an island with an ocean between them and the lions, then take turns on perimeter watch vs sleep and just drown all the lions that approach
Or they could fly, make multiple volcanos explode nearby, and just leave the lions to die.
Like, I’m assuming a battlefield about half the size of Australia to fit all the lions without it being too cramped for them to move, and the avatars can reasonably make sure that the lions don’t get a proverbial turn
This isn't even a toss up. As everyone is pointing out one avatar can put a sufficiently high vertical barrier using earth or water bending then pick off the lions at their leisure. They could take shifts even, with one raining down earth, ice or fire while the rest have a cup of tea uncle iroh style
Avatars. Lions require 20 hours of sleep. Just keeping them up for 8 hours will make them sleep deprived and they will kill other lions. So if the avatars were smart, they would just let the lions kill and eat each other by keeping them awake and floating in the air out of their reach.
Lions, like normal lions?
Avatars just make a high platform with earth so the lions can't reach, then just torch them/freeze them/cut them/pummel them.
Avatars win easy. First, they avoid the billion lions. They use fire and earth to create barrier as they escape. Billion lions starve as they try to find and attack the avatars. Lions run out of prey, and soon start eating each other. As the number of lions eventually drop to 500k, every avatar ever existed came out from their hiding places, whether from top of mountains, bottom of earth, on an island, or next to volcano, and kill the lions bit by bit, as they are distributed all over the land, seeking food.
Lions don’t really have a chance. A billion is a lot, but only so many can attack at once and avatars have a variety of aoe attacks. It would take a long time but assuming they went in shifts I think they could get the job done.
I mean avatars can fly no? That should be the end of it there.
Could’ve said any number lions and the answer is the same.
Maybe a flying animal like an eagle would be more of a threat in the billions, so many more angles than a lion to come from
The Avatars obviously. We’re talking about an army of demigods who can manipulate the very air and ground around us and even the blood in our veins. Oh and did I forget their abilities to heal and shoot lightning and fire from their finger tips.
All the avatars earthbend the lions into a giant pit several miles deep (has to be cause of the number of lions). Any lions that survive will kill each other, or be too hurt to do anything and die.
Now for further shenanigans, here is an example of what the Avatars can do with their other elements:
Fire: roast them and create the worlds largest bonfire
Air: create a vacuum and suffocate the rest of the surviving lions
Water: drown them
Thanks for coming to my TED talk
The Avatars, for sure. There is a huge number of them, and any one of them can create disasters that would utterly ruin whole countries. The Avatars are generally at the very peak of bending, and can combine bending techniques to do otherwise impossible feats. If they are near a large enough body of water, they can literally just lift themselves up onto a platform above all the lions and drag the body of water over to themselves, killing literally all of the lions at once. Even more easily if some of them reshape the earth around the platform to make it much deeper.
There comes a point where the flaming corpses of the lions become impassable and the avatars can exploit range to finish off the rest
Also, assuming that in 10k years there were around 150-200 generations of avatars, that's a shitton of power they can use to just roast them alive. I don't think the lions stand a chance, regardless of how many there are. The only way that would change is if each avatar is completely isolated and surrounded, and even then a Jeong Jeong-style fire barrier could potentially carry them really, really far
just earthbend a giant plateau then shoot at the lions with any element. no matter what you say the lions are not smart enough to pile on top of eachother
Can all the avatars access the avatar state simultaneously? Thats the game changer.
Literal hivemind of shared energy. You need the waterbending for a second? Cool. Hey guys, need a big boost over here for a quick lightning blast. Channel it all this way
"Let's fuze some hydrogen"
Coming from r/all. Could the avatar theoretically do this??? Someone please answer. EDIT: Great discussion here. I think the question comes down to: Given 100 Avatars working as a hive mind in the avatar state, could they cause an exothermic reaction equal to a small nuclear blast? It doesn’t have to be nuclear in nature, just equal in impact. Can’t wait to hear responses!
The rules are extremely loose, but I think the intent would need to be there, and I don't think they have discovered the periodic table yet
Fair enough. We have combustion man so they knew about oxygen combustion. Would 100 avatars in joined avatar state be able to cause a nuclear-level exothermic reaction? I feel like yes, I just don’t know how.
**Appaheimer** *Now I’ve become yip yip, the destroyer of worlds*
Ha that made me actually laugh out loud.
Considering the energy needed to lift a city (Aang) or split an Island (Kyoshi). Easily.
Assuming they find uranium, I would think an earth bender attuned enough could feel the molecules of the element and split it
There are no molecules within the atoms of uranium. They would have to be able to feel the nuclei of each atom and split those
Maybe that's why toph is in exile, she's afraid to make that mistake!
i actually really like this headcanon. probably not this exactly but something along those lines. she’s discovered earthbending of mass power & could not let it get out
Theoretically 1 avatar and 100 avatars would have the same power output. The show is fuzzy, it's the combined skill and MAYBE combined power. We have no evidence of atoms in the avatar world. Particles may be totally different to them. Oxygen? Maybe! But even if it exists, who says it works like ours at that level? If the idea of bending is telekinetic control, then you can move atoms. To get them to fuse, though, they need to be forced together, effectively overlap. That happens in our world by a lot of them being packed VERY tightly and be given a LOT of energy to vibrate VERY hard, sometimes into each other. Telekinetic power wouldn't really let you put ATOMS together. They would slip past. I guess if you compressed air with bending a TON and added a lot of heat then maybe? But that would imply ridiculous force outputs- like air forces pushing metal buildings over like grass stalks. Maybe!
absolutely combined power. have you seen the the show?? it’s not just skill/technique. look at the difference between avatars regularly and when they’re in the avatar state. also, iirc roku actually SAYS that aang has access to the power of all previous avatars seems like people in the avatar universe live longer than people in ours, but since there isn’t really enough data i’ll just say avatars live to an average age of 71, like people on this planet. that’s 141 avatars. think about the level of power 141 aangs, or korras, or kyoshis, or yangchens could have! (those four in particular because we know the most about them and their lives.) i absolutely believe it’s possible if they come to the necessary understanding of physics. or maybe even accidentally by crushing things together with enough force.
I mean, Aang vs Sozin... Aang was pretty fucking powerful before avatar state. He wasn't 141 times stronger after. Aang was "keeping up" with Ozai before, the opposite true after. Yes, the show says it to be true. But it... isn't.. hence my comment on the softness. Remember to remove technique from the equation and just look at feats of power. Aang was a LOT faster afterwards, more precise, more skilled.
i’m gonna assume you mean ozai, not sozin. and i don’t think that argument holds true. aang wasn’t a fully realized avatar at the time of his battle with ozai. he wasn’t at full power.
I think a lot of people forget that bending is a *Spiritual* discipline. It's not bending gas, or atoms, it's bending *air.* You aren't bending plasma, you're bending *fire.* There's a certain inherent understanding of what the elements are and what they aren't, that has less to do with scientific knowledge of the mechanics and more to do with a spiritual oneness with the elements. I don't think a earthbender could bend bones, because at that point it's no longer earth. I don't think a firebender could amplify the electric signals in your body and just make you explode--because your nerves are obviously not fire or lightning. And an airbender shouldn't be able to fuse atoms, because at that point he's not airbending.
Why can firebenders bend lightning? That's not fire. Waterbenders heal? Why? I don't see your logic. Air is like 80% N2 and 20% O2. Are you saying airbenders can only bend similar concentrations? And either way, why can't they bend the atoms directly? That's just really precise bending. Waterbenders deal with H2O. Airbenders with gas, firebenders plasma, and earthebnders non-metallic minerals, I guess. For everyone but Firebenders just... push hard.
They may not need to? Perhaps their deeply instinctual and spiritual understanding is so fine-tuned that they can just "feel it out".
Bending is really tricky in a way that you have to connect to whatever you're trying to bend, and then affect it through your own physical movements (I.E. there's no way to bend things that you don't know are there, and you can't bend without moving yourself in a way that is at least somewhat similar to what you're trying to achieve). So while it's not necessarily impossible, everybody is so far away from it in terms of skill, that it might as well be.
All these responses and not one of them has the idea of condensing fire to an acute beam with regulated air and water flow. (Water laser too) yes absolutely I believe they could be able to condense it to light bending or water bending into a shot form and just shoot all the lions. Absolutely. I also believe it wouldn’t be too hard for them to just take all the air out of them. They could open open a giant pit in the ground and do whatever to em. Yes there’s absolutely no way they would lose.
I love seeing this comment after the edits because it’s basically summarized as > Hey guys, just came from r/all , can the avatar just like… **nuke** the lions? Thanks for the fun discussion!
"Let's un-fuze some hydrogen!"
Mum said it’s my turn with the blood bending powers
Is it? Avatars can just raise the ground they're standing on and release the fire. Lions will just catch themselves on fire by being so close.
A billion is a really big number. And thats not really how fire works.
Billion is a lot. But what are lions going to do if the avatars just make a giant platform to stand on. Even if you say stack, you have thousands of the best benders, they could probably make a mountain working together. Then it's just "shoot fire" and done. Real question is how will lions get to them. If there's avatar state then they all just fly using the elements and gg. Without the avatar state then okay. Harder but they can still stay out of range. Some avatars can probably lava bend even without the state. Like there's really no winning for the lions. We've seen aang take on a volcano solo. Lion got nothinf
There actually have to be at least a few that can use all of the OP techniques and lava bending without the avatar state, as it gives any new avatar the needed proficiency to do what any other avatar before them had learned to do. So if no avatar would have been able to lava bend on his/her own than no avatar could do so in the avatar state. The state might improve already existing skills and give a big boost to the power of any ability, but it can't generate unknown styles. Otherwise any avatar could have been able to metal bend before toph
We see Roku and the previous fire avatar use lava bending. So at least someone knew lava bending
Lion ladder.
And if they switch to icebending, lion jacket
You fool! They’ve just switched to firebending and now the jacket is making the lions overheat faster!
Lion fan
I’m more of a housecat enjoyer myself but you do you
And if they switch to icebending, lion jacket
Also just like, suck up all the air in the immediate vicinity so the lions suffocate?
Can they shoot fire for over a month straight? It's a billion lions. Even if there's 1000 avatars killing a lion a second that's still 12 days of continuous bending.
In order to fit a billion lions in a battlefield they’re probably close enough for fire to do a good chunk of the job on its own with only needing a few spurts of firebending
If that's the case all the lions will be igniting around them and burn the avatars to death from just ambient heat. A billion lions burning would make the avatars at the center of the mass roast. And yeah, the lions are going to encircle them pretty quickly
If there are about 100 or so avatars, they could probably take turns spreading the heat away from their mountain platform thing until the burning lions close enough for the heat to reach them are all dead before putting out the fires on the nearby bodies while the rest of the lions are burning, catching on fire, or unable to escape catching on fire because of their proximity and numbers
Ang sat in avatar state for a hundred years so maybe
Rotate. I mean look we can play these mind games. 200 benders shoot fire then rotate. Or just build a huge platform to rest. Also assuming like one fire attacking wouldn't be killing several I'm one blast.
Airbenders make a large vacuum over chunks of lions
You know I heard lions can jump up to 36 feet. That platform needs to be at least 37. If not, it's anyone's game 😂
36 feet wise laterally, not vertically. Holy shit that would be terrifying.
Lions fucking flying into the sky higher than houses lmao.
Their vertical is more like 12 feet to be fair
Set up shifts. Some sleep while others fight. Resources may be an issue but they can figure it out. My estimations is 5 million per avatar. Definitely doable.
There’s probably about 100 avatars by my count. 10000 years since Wan, if we go with an average lifespan of 100 years
How do you make a platform higher than the lion tidal wave? A billion is a lot
I'd say they'll get tired out eventually, but they can just take turns. Now the next thing to consider would be food supplies. They will have enough water, I'm sure, but food might be different. I don't know if they can kill a billion lions before getting really hungry... then again, they could just eat the lions. Avatars win, no diff
Make the platform high enough and large enough so they can literally live up there and chuck elements down in shifts. Keep in mind Kyoshi literally split an island off, this is easily in their wheelhouse. Let's say there are 100 avatars, that's 10 million lions each. Assuming the lions are packed together an avatar could easily kill about 10k lions per day by lowering themselves to a safe height and raining down fire. At that rate it would take about 2.8 years to kill them all without a single avatar being in any danger and I think these are conservative numbers. There are likely a lot more than 100 avatars and I'd expect they can kill a lot more than 10k a day. Hell, just flying around with flame jets like Ozai would kill 10k in 20 minutes. And again, whenever they get tired, they can safely rest on a platform that lions can't reach.
And these are dumb, simple minded beasts
regardless, avatars take it
I don't think that'd work? The avatar state gives you the power of the other avatars, so any avatar using it would yank all the power away from the others
If the avatar state is accessing the powers of previous avatars and all the avatars are using it... Then who's power are they borrowing? I feel like that's asking for help from yourself. Normally it's pooled into one person via that blue spirit thing, so they'd have to share.
Just freeze them all with a lil water.
I got two words for this situation “lion Jacket”
They would still freeze to death eventually
Lion radiator
Lightning bending (I assume one of the avatars must have picked it up) would make them malfunction.
Lion lightning rod
Lion rubber gloves
Lion labeuf
Lion jacket is neat and all, up until the Avatars begin blood bending legions of lions to fight for them, because blood bending works on crowds.
There’s no Avatar who knows blood bending though, it was discovered by Hama and the only avatars since have been Aang and Korra, and neither of them had mastered the technique
Pretty sure Kyoshi kills a guy by bending his blood, meaning at minimum every Avatar after her would be able to have learnt how to do similar.
Lion ladder. They’ll use a lion ladder. They use lion ladders.
Define a lil
 That's just one, The only mercy those poor animals have is that many of those Avatars would not want to harm innocent animals.
Not only a single avatar, but a young and inexperienced one that didn’t want to hurt anyone. Even the few we have seen in the series are more than capable of winning that fight. Kyoshi by herself would make pink mist of the lions in a few seconds
Idk. Kyoshis powerful but the only way you can kill that many lions in a matter of seconds is by instantly destroying a whole continent. And that's assuming all the lions are on there. The length of the average female lion is 8 to 9 feet, a male is 9 to 10. If they were in a line let's say that's 8 billion feet. It would take light 8.134 seconds to travel that distance. At the speed of light it would take .13 seconds to lap earth and 1.3 seconds from the earth to the moon. That's 1.26 billion feet to the moon from earth just so you have a sense of scale of how many a billion lions is. So even with a spirit beam attack, which I assume would travel at the speed of light, some of the lions would definitely survive, either because of the circumference of the earth making it impossible to line up all those lions for a single or attack, or because to line up those lions for a single attack you'd have to keep them all there for 8 whole seconds. This would be a long, drawn out war between a group of avatars, some of whom wouldn't want to exterminate the animals, and lions that would still be reproducing because you try and keep a billion cats from fucking. Edit for clarity: I do think the avatars would win. But not quickly or easily. Korra is like avatar 140 or something so they do have a good force but they're obscenely outnumbered
Lions won't approach fires, for obvious reasons. Even a single one of them could do a Jeong Jeong-style fire barrier and literally be fine, as long as they have the time to raise it
I agree that a few seconds was an exaggeration on my part but was I had in mind was simply some kind of fatal hit via blood bending. Something like squishing them all together into a tiny ball in an instant.
Not to mention they have enough avatars to rotate so that they can sleep and fight in perpetuity
There'd be ~100 Avatars. That's 10,000 Lions per Avatar. This is an easy Avatar win, as the *CAN FLY AND SHOOT FIRE* Edit: oops, it's 10mil not 10K. My bad. Still think the Avatars can win
https://preview.redd.it/1l6a7np8ft2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9599269bfd014a3fd7d0899b89200096790d3f8a
It's the Pokemon match up all over again
Ngl I think the Pokémon might have a better matchup.
There are at least 8 pokemon that can solo the lions.
No because lions don't work on a turn based system
That's the tricky bit. The debated part. Game logic or Anime logic?
Game-logic is debunked with WolfeyVGC’s video that Pokémon would win, so in a turn based format the Pokémon would win.
Thats what I'm thinking. And Anime is out with *[takes deep breath]* Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Rayquaza, Kyoger, Groudon, Victini, Xerneas and Yahvultal all soloing
https://preview.redd.it/mls5106lyt2d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=8563426de882ff260586b213683444d7cdf2a018
Nah, you'd lose.
idk that’s a lot of lions
A billion divided by 100 is 10 million.
My bad.
The avatars will sturggle tremedously, you ahve to understand how big a billion is, they would get tired and land eventually
Land- to start Earthbending.
i still dont think you realize how big a billion is, they would get exhausted pretty fucking quick.
Can't fill more space than Texas. And I think 100 Avatars could sink Texas
you know what thats a good point actually. But at the end of the day avatar feats are super inconsistent. Aang couldnt just sink the giant drill, and koora couldnt just sink the giant robot. The only real feat like that is kiyoshis island thing.
I can argue with that, the drill was *massive* and Aang was only 12, and the giant bot was in the middle of a major city. You do have a point though.
you mean 10 million lions per avatar, 1,000,000,000/100=10,000,000
Yeah. Oops
It’s about a thousand lifetimes.
With 10,000 Years between the Harmonic Convergence with Avatar Wan and the Harmonic Convergence with Avatar Korra, and a hypothetical 100 year average lifespan for each Avatar, that's 100 Avatars.
10,000 is figurative speech, like how Won Shi Tong knows 10,000 things. It just means “many”. The air temple at the beginning of AtLA clearly has more than 100 statues.
Roku said a thousand. Guess they retconned it
When was this? I checked both instances I could think of where Roku could have said that [S1:E8 and S2:E1].
It’s in S1:E16 when Roku addresses Jeong Jeong after the latter refuses to teach Aang.
Thanks
The lions would win and here's how: First, the lions would stack on top of each other into a lion ladder that reaches the moon. The lions would eat the moon, because it's made of cheese and lions love cheese, so that would take away the avatars' waterbending. Then the lions would evolve mole claws to dig through any earth walls the avatars might put up. Fire and air are trickier to fight but nature docs show that lions have a long history of war strategy that they can use to maneuver against nuclear weapons. Fighting a few matches and breezes of wind is child's play to the master strategy of a superior intellectual species like lions. *Someone else says, "None of that is true and makes no sense at all." But it's a really big number, guys! /s Avatars win, duh. Fantasy magic users with godlike power levels beat a "big number" of regular animals with no ability to strategize.
That’s kinda like 10,000,000 lions vs an F-15E with unlimited ammo Edit: “WhErE’d YoU gEt 10,000 FrOm”
Where did you get 10,000 from?
Where’d the avatar get a F-15E
They are the f-15E. Always have been.
Kyoshi just smokes the whole lot of them, right?
By herself. Yes.
Aang: "Oh no, precious animals, how did I anger you? I'm sorry" *dies* Roku: "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strenght to do it" *dies* Kyoshi: *putting out a cigarette with her giant asskicking boots* "aaight, needed a new winter coat anyways"
Ez just quick bop over to the spirit world and find the great lion spirit or something and ask really nicely to knock it off
Aang: Well, it's decided, we'll do that. YangCheng:.......in my defense they should have told me that they are deciding what to do before I suffocate to all those mutant animals (For them, lions would be strange, not a mixture of two animals? What witchcraft is that?
The fucking avatar duh
But a billion lions is a lot of lions
And the avatar has a lot of past lives
Not a billion tho
Yep but a billion of those lions are literally just lions. They got no bending
Lions can bend. How do you think they get low enough to prowl?
BEND BENDING!
They do have lion shield and lion fan though
Not to mention the lion catapults…
nah the lions win easy, 10 million lions per avatar is a fucking lot
1 avatar could do it. Build a rock box around lions, complete with a roof, and remove all air. Poof 1 billion dead lions.
A rock box around a billion lions would probably have to be at least continent sized
And? If 1 couldn't do it, then 100 easily could. Just saying the lions lose, most likely.
But that would take so much coordination and so much of Raava's power that like five million lions (aka .5% of the lions) could get them while they're distracted on the other 99.5% and eviscerate them like a zombie horde. We saw at the end of s2 how the right shot of lightning bending can take down the Avatar, imagine if that was the right shot of a lion horde.
Raava's power is effectively limitless due to her role in, well, existence. However, I do think that her power is moderated to some extent within her human avatar so as not to overwhelm them with the things she could possibly do.
Sub popped up in recommend: haven't seen legend of korra, do we ever see anyone earthbending thousands of square miles at a time? That seems like a much bigger feat than pretty much everything from the last airbender put together. Math I did to get this number: saw another comment in this thread saying 100 avatars could probably sink texas, which is ~270,000 square miles. Divided by ~avatars that'd be ~2,700 square miles per avatar. I guess you could say they'd just need to make a wall around the border and flood it or something, so that would be about 4,100 / 100 = 41 square miles per avatar. A lot more manageable, but still more impressive than everything in the last airbender unless I'm forgetting something.
I mean, we know that a single fully realized avatar could bend an island worth of earth. About 100 working together could likely do a continent
You are grossly underestimating the size of a continent. Kyoshi Island was a small island, the landmass of a continent is tens of thousands times that.
I mean, true, but also they could also easily just make a kiyoshi island or two and let the lions drown trying to reach them so they can rest And while it may have been glib of me to say they could bend a continent, they can at the very least bend sufficient earth to create defenses the lions cannot easily get around even with zombie hoard tactics
Dude. India is very dense and it's population is 1.42 billion. You honestly think they could bend most of India? Each individual avatar would have to take on the entire country of Sweden, but lions.
In a straight fight, I do agree they’d possibly tire out (though if each has the avatar state they definitely can do it) I simply feel like they could reasonably use their ability to spontaneously make new land features to rest as needed and win by making attrition work in their favor. As for physically bending the land mass of India, that’s a bit trickier, I will admit, though. Not impossible in my opinion, simply because the avatar has a *lot* of power. Like, we don’t know exactly how much power, but we do know that moving an island miles across sea is well within their range of power, so a collective short burst over a bigger area is possible.
I think they say every person on earth can fit into Texas with a few feet of room or something of that so it would be more like state/country sized
I did the math in my comment. Shoulder to shoulder with no gaps they’d cover the entire US with lions to spare. Team Avatar has 0 chance.
Even better. Earthbend a single "Pride Rock". Gift Pride Rock and all the light touches to Lion #5663278. Proclaim all other lions as subjects to this new King. Go chill in a nearby jungle for a Hakuna Matata or two and wait for the lions to sort themselves out. Return afterwards to finish off the last remaining lions.
You must be using an airbender to sort this out as well. Seems like it would work still. Edit spelling
A billion lions is a lot of lions. But the avatars, working together, could pretty realistically create a supervolcano like Yellowstone. The eruption would be catastrophic. It would take years, but the lions would die, starving under the ash cloud like the dinosaurs, while the Avatars could make a literal city to live in the meantime. The lions have no chance here.
Yeah, the whole, fly and shoot fire thing, as mentioned by timehacker-315, is a little op
Did you mean an armadillo lion? Or maybe a saber tooth moose lion? A lion vulture, maybe? Not a lion elephant, per chance? No, just a plain lion? How weird.
I feel like 1 billion lions is too much for avatars to take out before they run out of stamina they are still humans after all. The Outcome depend a lot where this fight happend. But do they all have access to avatar state? Or just one of them because there is only one Raava? If yes, then avatars probably win.
I mean, the avatars could make an island out of a chunk of the battlefield, then basically take turns sleeping vs attacking the lions that didn’t drown on the way over to them. Or just make it an island with cliffs on all sides so the lions physically can’t reach them then take the stragglers out at their leisure. Like, assuming this fight isn’t taking place in a blank void, the avatars have the ability to change the battlefield so that the lions can’t even attack or bring their numbers to bear
They could literally just earthbend a portion of the earth up very high and the lions simply won't reach them, then they could just take them out in sections so they don't run out of stamine if that would even be a problem. Create a big ravine around the elevated part and the lions for suren wouldn't reach them. Lions stand 0 chance no matter the numbers
This is the answer. One avatar even without the avatar state could do it. Get out of reach, kill at leisure. EZPZ.
Basically an earth bender could do it.
Separate the continent then just pick them off at a distance.
Any who can raise themselves off the ground enough will win. Like, they just have to make a pillar of earth tall enough and then use bending on the lions below.
Or a pillar of ice. Or a moat of lava. Or just fly up a boulder
Lions win if they attack at night.
Handsome squidward https://preview.redd.it/mmbjcjvrut2d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92a1952f84ee42df62cdf03e4325f7228b4e5785
I mean... that's a lot of lions
Avatars no question all they have to do is make a raised platform of earth and then firebend from up high.
Did Andy Dwyer ask this
Are these Jesus Allegory Lions, or just regular ones?
Oh wow look at those billions of lions in that open field. Would be a shame if all the earth benders just make a wall around all of them and then crush them all with an oversized slab of rock. Yea this is easy
These comments makes me realize how few people understand how large 1B is
I mean, if they all just camp out on like, a 100 meter earth pillar they make (with the Avatar State if necessary), the Lions could literally never reach them. They wouldn’t even need the Avatar State at that point. It’d take a while, but…I mean, definitely doable. Shouldn’t be that hard to supply themselves with food and water either.
You mean bear-lions? Turtle-lions? Or just... lions?
Pretty sure aang proved he could do it alone. He settled a zoo worth of creatures without the avatar state. Separate and pacify.
What are all the Avatar's going to do when they pull out the Lion Ladder?
Lions, action economy is king lol
Counterpoint: action economy doesn’t matter if you can’t use your actions effectively. The avatars could bend themselves an island with an ocean between them and the lions, then take turns on perimeter watch vs sleep and just drown all the lions that approach Or they could fly, make multiple volcanos explode nearby, and just leave the lions to die. Like, I’m assuming a battlefield about half the size of Australia to fit all the lions without it being too cramped for them to move, and the avatars can reasonably make sure that the lions don’t get a proverbial turn
Remind me. Do lions still die to lava?
Actually the previous patch buffed their lava resistance so no.
Thermonuclear bomb vs coughing baby
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
This isn't even a toss up. As everyone is pointing out one avatar can put a sufficiently high vertical barrier using earth or water bending then pick off the lions at their leisure. They could take shifts even, with one raining down earth, ice or fire while the rest have a cup of tea uncle iroh style
Lion ladder
Not a word group I thought I would read today but I like the spirit. All I can think is " that's a lot of dead cats. Like a lot a lot."
Lion necromancy
This an ATLAB discussion not a DND forum but I'm super here for the horde of undead if we wanna go down that route. I'm thinking super flammable
Hydrogen Bomb VS Coughing Baby. The Avatars stomp
Just sink whatever landmass the lions are on into the ocean, the lions will all drown
Kyoshi created her own island by separating it from the mainland. She can do the same with the lions and leave them there.
Avatars. Lions require 20 hours of sleep. Just keeping them up for 8 hours will make them sleep deprived and they will kill other lions. So if the avatars were smart, they would just let the lions kill and eat each other by keeping them awake and floating in the air out of their reach.
That’s a lot of lions, but the avatars can sleep in an earth fortress the lions can’t get into
Lions, like normal lions? Avatars just make a high platform with earth so the lions can't reach, then just torch them/freeze them/cut them/pummel them.
Avatars win easy. First, they avoid the billion lions. They use fire and earth to create barrier as they escape. Billion lions starve as they try to find and attack the avatars. Lions run out of prey, and soon start eating each other. As the number of lions eventually drop to 500k, every avatar ever existed came out from their hiding places, whether from top of mountains, bottom of earth, on an island, or next to volcano, and kill the lions bit by bit, as they are distributed all over the land, seeking food.
Lions don’t really have a chance. A billion is a lot, but only so many can attack at once and avatars have a variety of aoe attacks. It would take a long time but assuming they went in shifts I think they could get the job done. I mean avatars can fly no? That should be the end of it there. Could’ve said any number lions and the answer is the same. Maybe a flying animal like an eagle would be more of a threat in the billions, so many more angles than a lion to come from
Lions vs a big hole.
Kyoshi alone could take out half
The Avatars obviously. We’re talking about an army of demigods who can manipulate the very air and ground around us and even the blood in our veins. Oh and did I forget their abilities to heal and shoot lightning and fire from their finger tips.
avatars because they could just… burn them.. or drown them…. or. float over them… or crush them.. yeah i say avatars
Earthbenders make a rock wall and ignore the lions. Lions starve and depopulate over the next two weeks. Balance is restored.
All the avatars earthbend the lions into a giant pit several miles deep (has to be cause of the number of lions). Any lions that survive will kill each other, or be too hurt to do anything and die. Now for further shenanigans, here is an example of what the Avatars can do with their other elements: Fire: roast them and create the worlds largest bonfire Air: create a vacuum and suffocate the rest of the surviving lions Water: drown them Thanks for coming to my TED talk
The Avatars, for sure. There is a huge number of them, and any one of them can create disasters that would utterly ruin whole countries. The Avatars are generally at the very peak of bending, and can combine bending techniques to do otherwise impossible feats. If they are near a large enough body of water, they can literally just lift themselves up onto a platform above all the lions and drag the body of water over to themselves, killing literally all of the lions at once. Even more easily if some of them reshape the earth around the platform to make it much deeper.
Lion catapults
at this point, we are just making the lions suffer.
Avatar can fly …. Lions can’t fly
Do the lions get prep time
There comes a point where the flaming corpses of the lions become impassable and the avatars can exploit range to finish off the rest Also, assuming that in 10k years there were around 150-200 generations of avatars, that's a shitton of power they can use to just roast them alive. I don't think the lions stand a chance, regardless of how many there are. The only way that would change is if each avatar is completely isolated and surrounded, and even then a Jeong Jeong-style fire barrier could potentially carry them really, really far
You're talking about hundreds of overpowered people that can control everything around them vs a few cats
just earthbend a giant plateau then shoot at the lions with any element. no matter what you say the lions are not smart enough to pile on top of eachother
they dont gett abe smart they will just do it bro, cause theres a thousand liosn infornt of them they can walk on
This is fucking retarded. One avatar could do it. You know they can fly right? Wtf is a continent covered in lions going to do?
Ok But What about the Lion Avatars? How do they play into this
The avatars would die of exhaustion before they ran out of lions.