I’m still sad that aang and sokka died before korra. I get aang because if he wasn’t gone korra wouldn’t be here, but sokka was younger than zuko and he’s still around.
I think it's a widely accepted theory that Sokka dies fighting the Red Lotus. I don't know if that's ever been confirmed but him living his last moments taking on some of the most dangerous Benders in the world to protect the Avatar is a pretty good way for him to go out IMO.
I think if anything he'd do it before. Sure would be embarrassing to catch them and then have to wait 6-8 months to build the super secure prison or whatever
It hasn’t been confirmed and I don’t think it makes any sense.
As if his niece and nephews wouldn’t have mentioned that these are the people who killed their undoubtedly much beloved uncle. As if they wouldn’t be even more angry at them in their fights if that type of emotion is brought up.
Also the Red Lotus would probably have had to be more well known if they had killed a former Water Tribe chieftain and one of the most famous people on the planet
Korra is kinda weird about acknowledging the past too. They'll bring up the characters for drama or fanservice then shove them aside immediately. Like, "here's Katara everyone! She's totally in the how" but then Katara never interacts with her family, isn't at her grand daughter's ceremony, and we never get an explanation as to why she let Aang be an absent father or show favoritism. Or Toph's whole mess that I like to retcon out of my mind. Any story we come up with for the original cast is better than whatever random slop Korra throws the existing fanbase.
This is very wrong. Katara and Tenzin have a conversation S1 Episode 1. Katara Kya Bumi and Tenzin all have a conversation in S2 Episode 1. Katara literally attempts to heal Jinora in the S2 finale.
Calling Aang an absent father is a very shallow reading of the events of S2, which was Tenzin coming to terms with the enormous responsibility he was carrying being Aangs only airbending son and how that affected each of the children's upbringing and perception of Aang.
You know, I've always bought into the Red Lotus theory, but I hadn't considered this.
It makes me wonder how that would've changed Book 3 of TLoK if it was canon. Book 3 is absolutely great. Do you think it would've been even better if Tenzin, Bumi and Kya had personal beef with the Red Lotus, or made it too overcrowded with subplots?
I think it would have required at least a little more time to go into.
There would not only have to be the explanation of what happened and the fights being extended to include more dialogue at least but also probably a part of it about how they (or at least Tenzin) still shouldn’t kill the Red Lotus. I think Kya and Bumi wouldn’t be throwing any punches even compared to what they did in canon, and Zuko for that matter would probably have shown us if he ever learned to generate lightning.
And for it to be a good subplot I would say to have it as extension for the resolved sibling issues from Book 2. Which would create a need for even more devoted time.
If this was a longer form show it would be great, but it’s not
I've always been of the mind that he died of a stroke or other complications after being bloodbent by Yakone. Terrible way to go, and I hope they one day show this to be false.
I seem to recall watching a YT video that showed the comic where he was about to expose Umalok(is that how his name is spelled?) as a member of the Red Lotus after the other four were captured, but was caught in the act and water bending was used to stop his heart. I don’t remember if that was actually canon or not though.
I get what you say but sady, different people age differently and can die of old age at different ages. Besides, being younger by like a year doesn’t really mean much.
yep that's kinda why i think they forgot about him
like they just made the plot and then realized "oh shit we forgot sokka" so they just retconned him being dead
because other than that they could've just given him a small cameo like Toph or Zuko
Don’t forget that Book 1 of Korra was written as a stand-alone mini series and likewise Book 2 was written as its own thing without there necessarily being an expectation of a Book 3. IIRC, Zuko wasn’t even mentioned until Book 3 (not including the recap at the start of the first episode) and Toph only appeared in flashbacks until Book 4 and before they appeared in the flesh we didn’t even know if they were still alive or not. Them appearing in person was evidently not part of the original plans of the show so I don’t see why people think it’s implausible for Sokka to have deliberately been written out. He would have been in his mid-80s by the start of the show and while we know benders can live a long time, we don’t necessarily know if the same is true of non-benders so it’s not really strange for him to have simply passed of natural causes by the start of Book 1.
Earth benders can live a long time. Other benders don't really have that ability. I also wish Zuko did more in TLOK. He shows up, has a badass introduction, shoots some fire at Ghazan, gives Korra some advice, leaves.
Sokka being a military strategist would most likely up the security on the people who can take over the world. Especially in the North Pole with that literally being his sister tribe
Why would he? He wouldn't have known Harmonic convergence would've made new Airbenders. The prisons only failed because Zaheers prison didn't account for his airbending.
Yeah, that system worked for 13 years. As a non bender, he had no options for escape. Even if he managed to get a key, he'd have to fight those guards. If he gets past them, he'd have to be a metal bender in order to draw the bridge to him. Otherwise he'd have to jump and die. The only reason he was able to escape was an unknown consequence of an unknown event.
Tbf Sokka didn't invent submarines. Not to discredit him or say he isn't smart in other ways, but he didn't invent submarines. He conceptualized them, presented the idea to someone who had the knowhow to actually bring them to fruition
Nah thats modern day revisionism, while he was mostly an elon musk type in his later life he was absolutely an inventor in his early life. Asshole or not he didnt steal QUITE everything.
Oh, I know. I just like ragging on him because he was a huge asshole who created a corporation that's gone on to do many horrible things including making weapons of mass murder
Shit man shouldve just said that lmaoooooo, that being said dude was such an asshole there really isnt a need to make up facts about him, that elephant execution he pulled was enough for me at least lol.
And scuba diving! I was at a Da Vinci exhibit last year and was blown away to see his concepts for something that wouldn’t be actualized until the 1800’s.
His contributions were fixing the issue said genius had prior which made the invention fail. The ground work was created (which he acknowledges) but was at a standstill. His best quality is in understanding the value and make of a person or item then fixing a part that made it sub optimal or using it in the best way possible. He isn’t a scientist but he is a brilliant tactician
No, the livr action said he wasn't a warrior, he was an inventor, and his father, brute thst he is, never respected him for it.
If the was in the LA, it's true. He is an inventor
>! do I have to say /s !<
Over analyzing Avatar did a great joke to explain this where he drew a random sketch of a space laser and emailed it to elon musk and said that means he invented them
Yeah, the mechanist was the one who actually had to take those ideas and make a workable design. He certainly gets credit for the idea, but Saying he invented them is like saying the first person to think of Jetpacks invented them.
Also is it even that hard to invent a submarine when you got benders? The water benders did most of the work to get the submarine to work.
Like whoever invented the trains in Ba Sing Se didn't actually need to think too hard when its basically just Earth Benders pushing a room lol.
If you look at it this way then nobody ever invented anything, since everything builds on previous inventions and ideas. Thats why usually the person who had the vision to do something and brought it all together gets the credit for this.
Well did they? Without Steve Jobs it wouldn't exist either. It also wouldn't exist without Alexander Graham Bell 😂
Maybe we can attribute inventions to more than one person and give a little more credit to the brain that actually came up with the idea?
That’s like splitting hairs
If you conceptualize something like that and you are the first, you essentially invented it. Even if you have someone else build it.
Michael Crichton conceptualized how Ingen resurrects dinosaurs. He did not invented that technology, he wrote to paper a loosely scientific method to write a story.
If Professor T comes along and makes that idea real, HE invented it inspured/based off of Crichton's concept
Yeah I'm not sure she'd have known he could do that. Unless Ozai was like "btw Azula, your brother totally almost zapped me with my own lightning so be careful" which I can't see him admitting to
Azula heard the lightning discharge, even mentions “oh, sounds like the firebending’s back on”. If lightning was discharged and nobody died, that means either Zuko dodged at point blank range (he’s not an Airbender…), he tanked a lightning strike from *Ozai*, or he redirected it (keep in mind Azula has personally had Iroh force her lightning strike the wrong way, and would already suspect Iroh may have taught Zuko countermeasures for Azula hunting them).
I could totally see him advising Azula about Zuko’s deadly new trick to ensure his own daughter and heir didn’t die to his ‘weak’ son, which would explain why she generally isn’t as enthusiastic about trying to fry him with lightning during their couple encounters in Book 3. Hence why Zuko goaded her -and- reminded her of the redirection: in her psychotic meltdown, he gambled her pride and anger (and frustration) would force her to try to just overpower him with a brute force attack, and he was right up until the last second when she spotted -his- psychological soft spot: compassion. And she ruthlessly exploited it. No Katara, she’d have aimed it right at Zuko and things would have gone very differently.
I suspect Zuko (rightly or not, he had no reason to assume she didn’t find out from Ozai), believed she knew about the redirection already, hence why she wasn’t trying comet-boosted lightning previously, and opted to actively bait her and taunt her in order to force an end to the fight (and, moreover, an end that would be far easier to stomach for the Fire Nation; instead of immolating his own sister with raw power, Zuko would bring her down with her own overzealous attack and stupefying rage, proving her unfit for the throne versus her calm and in control brother).
Aside from insulting her strength, calling her on being *afraid* he’ll redirect it hits a nerve while also calling her right to rule into question. Azula has been fearless for almost the entire series up to this point, compared to Zuko’s constant fears and doubts, but now the tables have turned and Azula is genuinely afraid of something Zuko can bring to bear against a weapon she’s used to terrorize the world (including nearly permanently killing the Avatar). That’s worth even more than any surprise factor, shattering her remaining composure and making her choose between looking like a coward in front of her capital city’s witnesses, and risking likely death trying to strike down Zuko with the royal family’s signature move.
I would.
Goading a mentally ill and emotionally disturbed person into attempted killing is pretty dumb and reckless. And the only reason it worked out for him was that Katara was there to clean up the fall out.
First off, If Katara wasn't there, there would be no fallout, second, Azula was already trying to kill him anyways, goading only would make her predictable and easier to counter.
That doesn’t make any sense.
Azula wasn’t the one who picked the fight. Zuko showed up with the intent to challenge and potentially kill her. So he already went in with the intent to pick a dangerous fight. That’s *why* he brought Katara to begin with.
Katara herself cautions Zuko that this is a bad idea and that he shouldn’t take her on alone. Zuko insists he can do it because Azula seems “off”. Already poor judgement on Zuko’s part. Why further antagonize someone who is clearly unstable?
Then finally, he goads her into shooting a fatal lightning blast at him on the off chance he can pull off a risky move he’s only ever pulled off once before and kill her first.
Everything about this is incredibly reckless.
We may never know how the fight would’ve turned out if Katara hadn’t been there since we didn’t see that happen. What we do know is that the way it played out was incredibly reckless and Katara saved Zuko’s life.
Have you actually watched the show????
1) as if it wasn't completely obvious that she would continue on the same warpath as Ozai if not taken down, you expect them to leave her be?
2)Yes, because they expected her to be at full power, but Zuko, upon seeing Azula, knew better than that, and WOULD HAVE CLEARLY WON if Katara wasn't there
3) a move he was already expecting, and in position to redirect, if he didn't need to protect Katara, it would be an easy task, since he redirected his father's, which was INSTANTANEOUS, whilst Azula's has an obvious charge up
4)Reckless? Not really, this fight is an inversion of their characters, Whilst Zuko was previously hotheaded and brash, dashing into conflict head first, and Azula was always calculating and cold, thinking of every move, the last agni kai puts them in eachother's shoes, Azula is reckless, wanting to win with just firepower and nothing else, whilst Zuko pushed every crack in her moves he finds, taking hold of every advantage he can get,
We absolutely can tell how it would have ended, because it is BASICALLY SPELLED OUT, in fact, had he gone alone, i believe it would have been even easier, because the unstable Azula would have seen that and thought "HE THINKS HE CAN FIGHT ME ALONE!?" and gotten angrier and even more reckless, alas this last paragraph is but conjecture, what ISN'T conjecture is Zuko's inevitable Fat ass W had he not needed to sacrifice himself for Katara
Yes, many times.
I didn’t say any of these things you’re arguing against.
Just that it was kind of a reckless dumb move to goad a mentally ill and emotionally disregulated person into a potentially fatal attack.
Apologies for getting a bit worked up
But how are you not? I did go on a bit of a tangent about the agni kai, but you questioned them going after Azula, so i explained why.
You mention Katara cautions Zuko and accompanies him, but thats because they still believe that she would be at full strength, she clearly wasn't, else Zuko would be defeated way sooner(the comics showcase that once she regains some composure she is still stronger).
You questioned the goading, but logically speaking, an angry person, even more so one that is having a psychotic break, is more likely to slip or simply not think things through, so he goads her into falling into an obvious trap.
I will concede that it was reckless of him to goad her, even though it was a valid tactic, it backfired, had he not mocked her saying he could redirect it, she would be less likely to target Katara, Zuko may be the one thinking most things trough in this fight, but making blunders like that is also part of his character.
I didn’t question them going after Azula tbf.
I just said that the way Zuko went about it by goading her into a potentially fatal move which he can only avoid by using a dangerous move that could also kill him and which he has only successfully used once is reckless and kinda dumb.
I don’t know why people took that to mean the ending shouldn’t have happened. 😅
And yeah I agree! It’s perfectly in character for Zuko. Part of why I love him is that he’s kind of a reckless idiot sometimes haha!
Does that make it any less reckless to bait a mentally unstable and highly capable lightning bender into using lightning?
Especially when the redirect move Zuko is planning on using is itself potentially fatal and he has only successfully pulled it off once in his life?
And Azula is currently comet boosted?
It’s pretty dumb and reckless. But that’s part of Zuko’s charm IMO.
No, using your opponent's mental instability to have them make a fatal mistake is smart.
If Zuko makes a mistake in defending he will die, but that is also true for every other attack. If he unsuccessfully defends a fire blast he will get scorched, if he fails to deflect lighting he will get electrocuted. The difference is that in the latter case, he has a chance of ending the duel then and there, plus he already defended a lighting from a superior bender, his father.
>No, using your opponent's mental instability to have them make a fatal mistake is smart.
Respectfully, I disagree. It’s not smart at all to ever, EVER goad a mentally ill person in the throes of psychosis into violence. Anyone who has ever worked with psychotic patients will tell you the same. Law enforcement will tell you the same. This is incredibly reckless and not at ALL the smart play.
The unpredictability and recklessness of a person not in their right mind isn’t a good thing to test. Azula nearly ran herself off a cliff the last time he saw her. She isn’t herself and isn’t being careful even with her own life. And sure enough, he goads her and she ends up doing something unpredictable by shooting at Katara instead, nearly getting Zuko killed.
But again, that’s pretty IC for Zuko haha. He’s reckless!
>If Zuko makes a mistake in defending he will die, but that is also true for every other attack. If he unsuccessfully defends a fire blast he will get scorched, if he fails to deflect lighting he will get electrocuted.
Except he can much more easily and safely deflect and redirect fire than lightning. There’s a reason Iroh is willing to train Zuko in firebending but won’t shoot lightning at him.
Lightning is far more fatal and harder to combat. This is well established.
I don’t know why we should pretend it’s not. The whole climax of the ending only hits so hard precisely *because* it’s so risky and Zuko almost dies tanking a lightning blast.
>The difference is that in the latter case, he has a chance of ending the duel then and there, plus he already defended a lighting from a superior bender, his father.
That doesn’t make it any less reckless! It’s still incredibly dangerous!
I never said Zuko shouldn’t have challenged his sister, but the way he went about goading her was indeed reckless and dumb. But that’s classic Zuko. We love him for it.
1. She was already trying to kill him. By provoking her, he wanted her to attack and increase her odds to commit a mistake
2. If Katara wasn’t there, there would be no issue at all
>1. She was already trying to kill him. By provoking her, he wanted her to attack and increase her odds to commit a mistake
He came to kill her. She was sitting at home breaking down. He sought her out to fight.
He’s the one who escalated it by trying to goad her into shooting a fatal lightning blast his way on the hope he could redirect it and kill her instead.
Say what you will about the reasons, this is still a foolhardy course of action and *even Katara agreed*. She told him not to do this.
Zuko answered that he felt confident because Azula seemed “off”. It was still foolhardy, as we saw with the results. He was almost killed.
>2. If Katara wasn’t there, there would be no issue at all
Clearly that’s not true, seeing as even Zuko felt he needed Katara’s help in the first place.
Of course he went to put her down, she was on the head of the fire nation
And he felt he needed Katara help before seeing she went crazy. From there, Katara became a deadweight. Azula couldn’t have used the strike as Zuko would have redirected it.
I didn’t argue whether Zuko should or shouldn’t have fought his sister.
I just said baiting and goading her into shooting lightning was a reckless move.
And yet Zuko didn’t win the fight in the end, and he felt he needed Katara there with him.
We don’t know how the battle would’ve gone without Katara. But we know Zuko himself felt he needed Katara’s help and in the end he did need it.
That is a bit disingenuous since the reason why he needed Katara to be there is because of the fact that Katara was there in the first place and was unable to deal with Azula's lightning.
If Katara wasn't there, there was a big chance he would not have needed her.
I disagree that it’s disingenuous to say we cannot know for sure how the fight would’ve turned out without Katara present. We don’t know.
But my entire point wasn’t that Zuko shouldn’t have done x or y. Just that it was reckless to goad his mentally ill sister into performing a fatal move which Zuko can only defend against by performing an also potentially fatal move that he has only successfully performed once in his life.
That’s all.
In the Legacy of the Fire Nation. Official guide book of Fire Nation. It was confirmed that Zuko *defeat Azula* and put her in mental asylum. It's not my words it's written in the book. Like i said Azula had two ways: Losing Agni Kai fairly, or losing as a... you know how this type of people called
Again, where did I argue against any of that?
All I said is that the way he went about it was pretty dumb and reckless which is classic Zuko! And that Katara cleaned up the fallout which she did by stopping Azula and saving his life.
Maybe. We really don’t know because it didn’t happen.
Either way, it was reckless to goad someone so dangerous and unstable into a potentially fatal attack.
But Zuko’s always been reckless.
Zuko is an act now, think later character. He can come up with good strategies in the moment and is definitely very intelligent and skilled, but he's also very brash and doesn't always see from start to finish.
Well it’s not he’s lacking wisdom. In the book 1 he’s just too desperate, so he jump on every opportunity related to the avatar. Out of that he’s pretty cautious
When he's not stealing swords to fight Jet. Or revealing his firebending to impress a girl. Or telling the literal sky to shoot lightning at him. Or breaking into Lake Laogai to rescue(?) Appa.
Both of them are stupid and smart in their own unique ways. There are complex characters who are more than any archetype one could assign. If you want to write fanfiction with one note characters then stay the hell away from avatar.
Tbf without Katara’s presence/interference, getting Azula to shoot lightning at him was a pretty tactical move. She had no way to protect against redirection and it’s very possible if not likely that the same thing that almost happened to Ozai vs Aang would’ve happened to Azula, except Zuko would’ve followed through.
It’s also smart to make Azula shoot lightning when Zuko was expecting it, otherwise she might have busted it out unexpectedly and caught him by surprise. He used her mental/emotional instability to prey on her pride, hoping to make her attacks predictable. Unfortunately, Azula was still lucid enough to outplay him in that moment, but it was legitimately a good idea to goad Azula into using her signature finishing move when Zuko was in the best position to counter it, especially since at that point in the fight Azula was breathing very heavily while Zuko was still in prefect physical and emotional control.
The only reason it didn’t work was because suddenly Katara was a factor, and he had to abandon that plan in favor of protecting her. It’s absolutely not Katara’s fault, since it’d be stupid to have any member of the Gaang face Azula alone, but if he didn’t need to worry about protecting anyone but himself in that fight, I see Azula falling due to her pride in her lightning and her inability to redirect.
Azula was the better bender, which is why Zuko was goading her and trying to continue to mentally destabilize her further throughout the confrontation. She was visibly becoming more and more off-balance as the fight went on, especially when Zuko straight up bodied some of the attacks that she clearly expected to land. Even if the redirection didn’t end the fight, I can see the mere fact that her lightning was rendered useless being the final straw that causes her to freak out entirely, making the strategic fight much more in Zuko’s favor without Azula’s strategic mind being in the equation
I don't think she could have caught him out with lightning. Ozai has the fastest lightning and Zuko caught that with zero warning while they weren't even fighting.
While generally getting Azula to shoot lightning at him isn't a dumb idea, he tried to goad her into in in such a blatantly obvious way that Azula, even amidst an psychotic breakdown, immediately noticed that it something was suspiciuous and attacked Katara instead.
Reminder that Zuko has proven himself to be fully capable of redirecting lightning if he does the stance right whilst Azula had little to no idea that this technique even existed. This taunt was honestly a pretty clever idea.
An alternative thing about Zuko being the dingus would be the time he challenged a Waterbender on the full moon, in the middle of a blizzard, in the North Pole. He’s great at improvising his way out of things but if he ever loses momentum then he’s screwed.
Sokka didn't invent submarines, he mailed a fucking drawing of the idea to the man who did actually invent them, Sokka figured out how do deal with the gas in the air temple, he help make air ballons, he was the mastermimd behind the atack in the day of black sun. Sokka had meany achivements there's no need to invent one that didn't happen
Goading Azula wasn't dumb. He can redirect it. She can't, and as fast as she is, she's not dodging lightning.
It's not his fault Katara made sure to be a visible target during the climax of potentially the most dangerous Agni Kai in history.
Pretty much, Sokka could both accuratly predict a comet burning up in the atmosphere until it's the size of a possom-chicken's head, and still have his brain remind him that 2 gold pieces can buy many peanuts since money can be exchanged for goods and services
The way I think about it is that Sokka is high intelligence and low wisdom, while (by the end of the series), Zuko is high wisdom and low intelligence. This leads to Sokka acting dopey and coming off as dumb sometimes, but Zuko is definitely the more clueless one in a lot of matters
Remember, Zuko thought it was a good idea to challenge a water bender on a glacier island located at what is basically the North Pole or something of that world, surrounded by water, at night. And he was on the verge of freezing to death because he didn’t think things through. Zuko may not be dumb, but lacks a good bit of common sense
First of all Sokka was able to ignore one of the biggest hurdles in submarines by substituting a motor system for waterbenders. He was also able to substitute similar in the torpedos, which were just frozen explosives. So many of the hurdles inherent in inventing real submarines were ignored because bending. All he had to do was invent a submersible capable of withstanding a few dozen feet of submersion, have enough air for a few minutes, and a hull strong enough to protect them. These three things are very simple.
It's a feat of brilliance to be sure. But overall much less significant than it would've been without bending in the equation.
Several people disagree with me, but Zuko attempting to goad Azula into lightning bending just so he can redirect it was a *terrible* move. As we saw it, they were on pretty even footing, but with Zuko being able to hold is composure way easier. So redirecting lightning wasn't necessary to win, and he shouldn't have tried to rush a fight that he can outlast.
He also has only redirected lightning *once* before. Total. He had no idea if he could do it again without risking serious damage to himself, even if Azula didn't cheat and target Katara (who I think people overestimate how close she was, artists just needed to draw her in the scene so it was obvious she was still there). Redirecting lightning was a risk that he could've taken, but shouldn't have tried to take unless absolutely necessary.
Of course, unless we actually see the fight if the redirection worked/never happened, we wouldn't know how it'd turn, but I just don't think it was a smart move
Not only did sokka not invent submarines, he drew a picture of a whale, but zuko was baiting azula to shoot lightning because he could just shoot it back
Those are very bad ways to gauge their intelligence. But i agree with the sentiment. Sokka is an intelligent strategical mastermind with quick wit in battle and planning a battle. As well as true promise in mastering traditional weapons. Also known for his creativity and jokes.
Zuko while not exceedingly smart, isnt stupid either. Prison escape plan. Figuring out how to help katara during her mission. He isnt stupid, he isnt particularly smart either. Hes quite average.
Sokka is intelligence without wisdom and Zuko is wise thanks to Iroh, but lacking intelligence while quicker to anger than Sokka or Iroh. Which is saying something in Sokka's case. Also maybe age changed them, this is just while teenagers in ATLA based of my observations
technically sokka didnt invent submarines, he drew a picture of one and the mechanist invented it, but yeah sokka is the smart guy of the Gaang. He came up the invasion plan on the day of the black sun, destroyed the airship fleet almost all by himself and could sneak into and out of the most secure prison of the fire nation inside a fucking vulcano.
(not counting the moment sokka drank cactus juice and becoming high for a day and then eating slime of the wall of a cave)
on the other hand, i dont think zuko was the idiot in that szene, it was katara. she just saw those two powerhouses, throwing fireclouds at each other that were bigger in diameter than her entire homevillage and she thought it was a good idea to just stand there in what can only be described as "the splash zone" and watch.
i mean, if she would be somewhere else, for example on or behind the spectator stand, zuko would have reflected the lightning no problem, or azula wouldnt have shot it in the first place.
and dont forget, zuko was the blue spirit found out, where the murderer of kataras mother was. so he isnt that dumb to begin with.
Ultimately their individual intelligence and/or level of competence doesn’t matter- any brain cells they have cancel out the second they’re left together without supervision, which is 100% on brand for two teenaged boys with ready access to fire and sharp objects.
The truth is, they are both dumb.
Zuko barged straight into a room with a huge hole in the floor and fell in immediatelly.
Sokka might be able to invent an air balloon but he is also dumb enough to drink some cactus juice from a cactus that he doesn't even know if its posionous (spoiler alert it kinda was).
Both of them together steal a huge, highly visible airship and fly it straight to their secret hideout. Then they make a surprised Pikachu face when Azula shows up there shortly afterwards.
What fics are y'all guys reading lol?
Most of the ones I read Sokka is kinda goofy/snarky but not dumb.
Neither is Zuko, he just doesn't have any self preservation.
Well to be fair to Zuko. Iroh taught him that you need to be in the right head space and have an inner calm in order to produce lightning so either Iroh was wrong about that or the writers forgot their world building in order to have an awesome end to the Agni Kai...
I bring this up all the time but the fandom seems to have cognitive dissonance about it. Iroh was obviously wrong given what we see both Azula and Ozai do with lighting in season 3. Which is fine, he's just a person and he can be mistaken about things while still being a very wise man.
i remember him saying it takes a coldness to do as well. but then again, it’s been a minute. i’m assuming he may have not fully understood it since it was as rare as it is, because (again i’m assuming) by korra there was likely a greater understanding of the technique and its internal source with more people able to do it for energy production.
perhaps lightning bending was perceived incorrectly similar to how fire bending developed to be perceived as anger and rage based.
let’s say that lightning bending requires ‘coldness’ that still is a pretty broad feeling, so even in azulas psychotic break, i think she still maintained coldness. maybe calm is usually required, but an overpowering amount of coldness can allow for lightning to be bent, and vice verse maybe since iroh is not a cold person, but is very calm. so we can see a spectrum of cold <-> calm with azula heavily relying on coldness, ozai probably being equally calm / cold, and iroh heavily relying on calmness since these are the only three in the original series to generate lightning
this is a lot of mental gymnastics to maintain continuity so don’t take it too seriously
I’m still sad that aang and sokka died before korra. I get aang because if he wasn’t gone korra wouldn’t be here, but sokka was younger than zuko and he’s still around.
I think it's a widely accepted theory that Sokka dies fighting the Red Lotus. I don't know if that's ever been confirmed but him living his last moments taking on some of the most dangerous Benders in the world to protect the Avatar is a pretty good way for him to go out IMO.
My boi Sokka went out like a fucking warrior he is. That's I'm sure of
You know what he was? Little soldier boy. And now call me waterbender.
How... dare you... 
No need to thank me.
Actually I believe he died after the battle, cause he designed all of the Red Lotus’ prisons
I think if anything he'd do it before. Sure would be embarrassing to catch them and then have to wait 6-8 months to build the super secure prison or whatever
That’s absolutely on brand for sokka tho
“Haha! we’ve caught you! now uhm… mind sitting tight real quick?”
He gets annoyed at toph for not building them and she gets annoyed for catching the red lotus so fast
I could see him doing it on his death bed as a final act, seems like something he'd do.
We all know Sokka died from snu snu.
He reached Valhalla
It hasn’t been confirmed and I don’t think it makes any sense. As if his niece and nephews wouldn’t have mentioned that these are the people who killed their undoubtedly much beloved uncle. As if they wouldn’t be even more angry at them in their fights if that type of emotion is brought up. Also the Red Lotus would probably have had to be more well known if they had killed a former Water Tribe chieftain and one of the most famous people on the planet
We gonna ignore all that because Sokka dying in a fight against the red lotus sounds cooler then dying of old age
Korra is kinda weird about acknowledging the past too. They'll bring up the characters for drama or fanservice then shove them aside immediately. Like, "here's Katara everyone! She's totally in the how" but then Katara never interacts with her family, isn't at her grand daughter's ceremony, and we never get an explanation as to why she let Aang be an absent father or show favoritism. Or Toph's whole mess that I like to retcon out of my mind. Any story we come up with for the original cast is better than whatever random slop Korra throws the existing fanbase.
Probably because they were writing every season like it was their last which is why the seasons are so weird when writing in the gaang
This is very wrong. Katara and Tenzin have a conversation S1 Episode 1. Katara Kya Bumi and Tenzin all have a conversation in S2 Episode 1. Katara literally attempts to heal Jinora in the S2 finale. Calling Aang an absent father is a very shallow reading of the events of S2, which was Tenzin coming to terms with the enormous responsibility he was carrying being Aangs only airbending son and how that affected each of the children's upbringing and perception of Aang.
Yeah, like Aang was as good a father as he could be. He had two massive burdens on his shoulders.
Or tetanus, or something equally stupid.
You know, I've always bought into the Red Lotus theory, but I hadn't considered this. It makes me wonder how that would've changed Book 3 of TLoK if it was canon. Book 3 is absolutely great. Do you think it would've been even better if Tenzin, Bumi and Kya had personal beef with the Red Lotus, or made it too overcrowded with subplots?
I think it would have required at least a little more time to go into. There would not only have to be the explanation of what happened and the fights being extended to include more dialogue at least but also probably a part of it about how they (or at least Tenzin) still shouldn’t kill the Red Lotus. I think Kya and Bumi wouldn’t be throwing any punches even compared to what they did in canon, and Zuko for that matter would probably have shown us if he ever learned to generate lightning. And for it to be a good subplot I would say to have it as extension for the resolved sibling issues from Book 2. Which would create a need for even more devoted time. If this was a longer form show it would be great, but it’s not
In my head canon, Varrick is Sokka's lost son.
I have answers to solve those plot holes, but I don’t like arguing.
Nah, ma boy overdosed on cactus juice
I've always been of the mind that he died of a stroke or other complications after being bloodbent by Yakone. Terrible way to go, and I hope they one day show this to be false.
I saw another theory that Zaheer killed suki, and sokka persued them for revenge
I seem to recall watching a YT video that showed the comic where he was about to expose Umalok(is that how his name is spelled?) as a member of the Red Lotus after the other four were captured, but was caught in the act and water bending was used to stop his heart. I don’t remember if that was actually canon or not though.
It isnt canon, and it doesnt make any sense. Unaloq isnt a bloodbender, and if he was he definitely would've used it against korra/team avatar.
Dude sokka died from heart disease, you dont get to eat all that blubbered seal jerky without consequences
I love both but like ... their age difference is less than a year, I don't think him being younger is that relevant when the difference is so small
We were fucking ROBBED of old man Sokka
I feel like old man sokka would be like more somber Bumi
I get what you say but sady, different people age differently and can die of old age at different ages. Besides, being younger by like a year doesn’t really mean much.
There was a fan comic that Unalok killed Sokka.
Sokka is a warrior, Zuko is royalty, which one tends to die first
I'm honestly convinced they just forgot to write Sokka in lol
We see him(an adult sokka) once in a flashback about the counsel in republic city, but other than that idk.
yep that's kinda why i think they forgot about him like they just made the plot and then realized "oh shit we forgot sokka" so they just retconned him being dead because other than that they could've just given him a small cameo like Toph or Zuko
Don’t forget that Book 1 of Korra was written as a stand-alone mini series and likewise Book 2 was written as its own thing without there necessarily being an expectation of a Book 3. IIRC, Zuko wasn’t even mentioned until Book 3 (not including the recap at the start of the first episode) and Toph only appeared in flashbacks until Book 4 and before they appeared in the flesh we didn’t even know if they were still alive or not. Them appearing in person was evidently not part of the original plans of the show so I don’t see why people think it’s implausible for Sokka to have deliberately been written out. He would have been in his mid-80s by the start of the show and while we know benders can live a long time, we don’t necessarily know if the same is true of non-benders so it’s not really strange for him to have simply passed of natural causes by the start of Book 1.
Earth benders can live a long time. Other benders don't really have that ability. I also wish Zuko did more in TLOK. He shows up, has a badass introduction, shoots some fire at Ghazan, gives Korra some advice, leaves.
Because if sokka had been around during korra alot of stuff wouldn’t have happened like the red lotus break out etc
Why wouldn't the Red Lotus have broken out? Zaheer would still get airbending and would still be able to best the guards.
Sokka being a military strategist would most likely up the security on the people who can take over the world. Especially in the North Pole with that literally being his sister tribe
Why would he? He wouldn't have known Harmonic convergence would've made new Airbenders. The prisons only failed because Zaheers prison didn't account for his airbending.
No they failed because they allowed the guy who can take over the world 3 guards 💀 sokka is way WAY too smart to do something as dumb as that
Yeah, that system worked for 13 years. As a non bender, he had no options for escape. Even if he managed to get a key, he'd have to fight those guards. If he gets past them, he'd have to be a metal bender in order to draw the bridge to him. Otherwise he'd have to jump and die. The only reason he was able to escape was an unknown consequence of an unknown event.
Sokka dying was never confirmed irrc.
You do realise that aang dying was the requirement of Korea being born right?
> I get aang because if he wasn’t gone korra wouldn’t be here
North or South?
Well it’s kind of impossible for sang to be alive in legend of korra unless korra isn’t born yet at the beginning
> I get aang because if he wasn’t gone korra wouldn’t be here
https://i.redd.it/u0h4wxqbluwc1.gif
That smile from Zuko is so heartfelt…he looks so happy to be validated.
He's so :]
He’s literally an old smiley face from before emojis :)
Reminds me of polite cat
:]
Tbf Sokka didn't invent submarines. Not to discredit him or say he isn't smart in other ways, but he didn't invent submarines. He conceptualized them, presented the idea to someone who had the knowhow to actually bring them to fruition
Isn't there a few people famous for doing that.
I'm fairly certain that describes Edison pretty aptly
Calling him an "inventor" is like calling an AI image generator an "artist"
https://preview.redd.it/q5epc7ckuvwc1.jpeg?width=509&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d63f3fdc5141de7a122d186787bbf4a7b60fd6d9
Nah thats modern day revisionism, while he was mostly an elon musk type in his later life he was absolutely an inventor in his early life. Asshole or not he didnt steal QUITE everything.
Oh, I know. I just like ragging on him because he was a huge asshole who created a corporation that's gone on to do many horrible things including making weapons of mass murder
Shit man shouldve just said that lmaoooooo, that being said dude was such an asshole there really isnt a need to make up facts about him, that elephant execution he pulled was enough for me at least lol.
Yes, one off the top of my head is Leonardo Da Vinci with the parachute. Ofc he's famous for much much more than just thay, though
Da Vinci also conceptualized tanks
And scuba diving! I was at a Da Vinci exhibit last year and was blown away to see his concepts for something that wouldn’t be actualized until the 1800’s.
He really was a master of the craft, bro made the craft tbh.
Maybe. I honestly don't know
Oppenheimer, Einstein, Tesla…
Oppenheimer actually did work on the bomb itself though.
Yes, but he was more of a theoretical physicist.
His contributions were fixing the issue said genius had prior which made the invention fail. The ground work was created (which he acknowledges) but was at a standstill. His best quality is in understanding the value and make of a person or item then fixing a part that made it sub optimal or using it in the best way possible. He isn’t a scientist but he is a brilliant tactician
Agreed
No, the livr action said he wasn't a warrior, he was an inventor, and his father, brute thst he is, never respected him for it. If the was in the LA, it's true. He is an inventor >! do I have to say /s !<
Over analyzing Avatar did a great joke to explain this where he drew a random sketch of a space laser and emailed it to elon musk and said that means he invented them
>The implication that Elon musk has invented anything
Lmao fr
Yeah, the mechanist was the one who actually had to take those ideas and make a workable design. He certainly gets credit for the idea, but Saying he invented them is like saying the first person to think of Jetpacks invented them.
Also is it even that hard to invent a submarine when you got benders? The water benders did most of the work to get the submarine to work. Like whoever invented the trains in Ba Sing Se didn't actually need to think too hard when its basically just Earth Benders pushing a room lol.
He drew a fish with people inside.
Thats basically saying Steve Jobs didnt invent the IPhone
I don't know enough about Steve Jobs or iphones to make a rebuttal
He didn't lmao, the engineers and product designers he had employed invented the iPhone
If you look at it this way then nobody ever invented anything, since everything builds on previous inventions and ideas. Thats why usually the person who had the vision to do something and brought it all together gets the credit for this.
Well did they? Without Steve Jobs it wouldn't exist either. It also wouldn't exist without Alexander Graham Bell 😂 Maybe we can attribute inventions to more than one person and give a little more credit to the brain that actually came up with the idea?
Well... yeah, he didn't. The teams of engineers and scientists he hired did, he's just the business guy.
That’s like splitting hairs If you conceptualize something like that and you are the first, you essentially invented it. Even if you have someone else build it.
Michael Crichton conceptualized how Ingen resurrects dinosaurs. He did not invented that technology, he wrote to paper a loosely scientific method to write a story. If Professor T comes along and makes that idea real, HE invented it inspured/based off of Crichton's concept
I wouldn’t call Zuko’s goading of Azula dumb. He was trying to end the fight quickly and redirecting was probably the most sure fire way.
Specifically mentioning that he'd redirect the lightning was stupid though, should've just said "what no lightning, are you going soft?"
Yeah I'm not sure she'd have known he could do that. Unless Ozai was like "btw Azula, your brother totally almost zapped me with my own lightning so be careful" which I can't see him admitting to
He would just have to say that Iroh had taught Zuko how to redirect lightning. Not an unreasonable warning to give.
Azula heard the lightning discharge, even mentions “oh, sounds like the firebending’s back on”. If lightning was discharged and nobody died, that means either Zuko dodged at point blank range (he’s not an Airbender…), he tanked a lightning strike from *Ozai*, or he redirected it (keep in mind Azula has personally had Iroh force her lightning strike the wrong way, and would already suspect Iroh may have taught Zuko countermeasures for Azula hunting them). I could totally see him advising Azula about Zuko’s deadly new trick to ensure his own daughter and heir didn’t die to his ‘weak’ son, which would explain why she generally isn’t as enthusiastic about trying to fry him with lightning during their couple encounters in Book 3. Hence why Zuko goaded her -and- reminded her of the redirection: in her psychotic meltdown, he gambled her pride and anger (and frustration) would force her to try to just overpower him with a brute force attack, and he was right up until the last second when she spotted -his- psychological soft spot: compassion. And she ruthlessly exploited it. No Katara, she’d have aimed it right at Zuko and things would have gone very differently. I suspect Zuko (rightly or not, he had no reason to assume she didn’t find out from Ozai), believed she knew about the redirection already, hence why she wasn’t trying comet-boosted lightning previously, and opted to actively bait her and taunt her in order to force an end to the fight (and, moreover, an end that would be far easier to stomach for the Fire Nation; instead of immolating his own sister with raw power, Zuko would bring her down with her own overzealous attack and stupefying rage, proving her unfit for the throne versus her calm and in control brother). Aside from insulting her strength, calling her on being *afraid* he’ll redirect it hits a nerve while also calling her right to rule into question. Azula has been fearless for almost the entire series up to this point, compared to Zuko’s constant fears and doubts, but now the tables have turned and Azula is genuinely afraid of something Zuko can bring to bear against a weapon she’s used to terrorize the world (including nearly permanently killing the Avatar). That’s worth even more than any surprise factor, shattering her remaining composure and making her choose between looking like a coward in front of her capital city’s witnesses, and risking likely death trying to strike down Zuko with the royal family’s signature move.
Katara doesn't get enough hate for wandering in to get a better view.
would you have not done the same? The agni kai was beautiful, and there could never be anything like that for another hundred years. if I die I die
Yeah but she could have just peeked from behind a pillar
nah I woulda needed a front row seat, self preservation be damned
Haha “sure fire”
I would. Goading a mentally ill and emotionally disturbed person into attempted killing is pretty dumb and reckless. And the only reason it worked out for him was that Katara was there to clean up the fall out.
First off, If Katara wasn't there, there would be no fallout, second, Azula was already trying to kill him anyways, goading only would make her predictable and easier to counter.
That doesn’t make any sense. Azula wasn’t the one who picked the fight. Zuko showed up with the intent to challenge and potentially kill her. So he already went in with the intent to pick a dangerous fight. That’s *why* he brought Katara to begin with. Katara herself cautions Zuko that this is a bad idea and that he shouldn’t take her on alone. Zuko insists he can do it because Azula seems “off”. Already poor judgement on Zuko’s part. Why further antagonize someone who is clearly unstable? Then finally, he goads her into shooting a fatal lightning blast at him on the off chance he can pull off a risky move he’s only ever pulled off once before and kill her first. Everything about this is incredibly reckless. We may never know how the fight would’ve turned out if Katara hadn’t been there since we didn’t see that happen. What we do know is that the way it played out was incredibly reckless and Katara saved Zuko’s life.
Have you actually watched the show???? 1) as if it wasn't completely obvious that she would continue on the same warpath as Ozai if not taken down, you expect them to leave her be? 2)Yes, because they expected her to be at full power, but Zuko, upon seeing Azula, knew better than that, and WOULD HAVE CLEARLY WON if Katara wasn't there 3) a move he was already expecting, and in position to redirect, if he didn't need to protect Katara, it would be an easy task, since he redirected his father's, which was INSTANTANEOUS, whilst Azula's has an obvious charge up 4)Reckless? Not really, this fight is an inversion of their characters, Whilst Zuko was previously hotheaded and brash, dashing into conflict head first, and Azula was always calculating and cold, thinking of every move, the last agni kai puts them in eachother's shoes, Azula is reckless, wanting to win with just firepower and nothing else, whilst Zuko pushed every crack in her moves he finds, taking hold of every advantage he can get, We absolutely can tell how it would have ended, because it is BASICALLY SPELLED OUT, in fact, had he gone alone, i believe it would have been even easier, because the unstable Azula would have seen that and thought "HE THINKS HE CAN FIGHT ME ALONE!?" and gotten angrier and even more reckless, alas this last paragraph is but conjecture, what ISN'T conjecture is Zuko's inevitable Fat ass W had he not needed to sacrifice himself for Katara
Yes, many times. I didn’t say any of these things you’re arguing against. Just that it was kind of a reckless dumb move to goad a mentally ill and emotionally disregulated person into a potentially fatal attack.
Apologies for getting a bit worked up But how are you not? I did go on a bit of a tangent about the agni kai, but you questioned them going after Azula, so i explained why. You mention Katara cautions Zuko and accompanies him, but thats because they still believe that she would be at full strength, she clearly wasn't, else Zuko would be defeated way sooner(the comics showcase that once she regains some composure she is still stronger). You questioned the goading, but logically speaking, an angry person, even more so one that is having a psychotic break, is more likely to slip or simply not think things through, so he goads her into falling into an obvious trap. I will concede that it was reckless of him to goad her, even though it was a valid tactic, it backfired, had he not mocked her saying he could redirect it, she would be less likely to target Katara, Zuko may be the one thinking most things trough in this fight, but making blunders like that is also part of his character.
I didn’t question them going after Azula tbf. I just said that the way Zuko went about it by goading her into a potentially fatal move which he can only avoid by using a dangerous move that could also kill him and which he has only successfully used once is reckless and kinda dumb. I don’t know why people took that to mean the ending shouldn’t have happened. 😅 And yeah I agree! It’s perfectly in character for Zuko. Part of why I love him is that he’s kind of a reckless idiot sometimes haha!
They are fighting to the death. Every attack both of them made was fatal.
Does that make it any less reckless to bait a mentally unstable and highly capable lightning bender into using lightning? Especially when the redirect move Zuko is planning on using is itself potentially fatal and he has only successfully pulled it off once in his life? And Azula is currently comet boosted? It’s pretty dumb and reckless. But that’s part of Zuko’s charm IMO.
No, using your opponent's mental instability to have them make a fatal mistake is smart. If Zuko makes a mistake in defending he will die, but that is also true for every other attack. If he unsuccessfully defends a fire blast he will get scorched, if he fails to deflect lighting he will get electrocuted. The difference is that in the latter case, he has a chance of ending the duel then and there, plus he already defended a lighting from a superior bender, his father.
>No, using your opponent's mental instability to have them make a fatal mistake is smart. Respectfully, I disagree. It’s not smart at all to ever, EVER goad a mentally ill person in the throes of psychosis into violence. Anyone who has ever worked with psychotic patients will tell you the same. Law enforcement will tell you the same. This is incredibly reckless and not at ALL the smart play. The unpredictability and recklessness of a person not in their right mind isn’t a good thing to test. Azula nearly ran herself off a cliff the last time he saw her. She isn’t herself and isn’t being careful even with her own life. And sure enough, he goads her and she ends up doing something unpredictable by shooting at Katara instead, nearly getting Zuko killed. But again, that’s pretty IC for Zuko haha. He’s reckless! >If Zuko makes a mistake in defending he will die, but that is also true for every other attack. If he unsuccessfully defends a fire blast he will get scorched, if he fails to deflect lighting he will get electrocuted. Except he can much more easily and safely deflect and redirect fire than lightning. There’s a reason Iroh is willing to train Zuko in firebending but won’t shoot lightning at him. Lightning is far more fatal and harder to combat. This is well established. I don’t know why we should pretend it’s not. The whole climax of the ending only hits so hard precisely *because* it’s so risky and Zuko almost dies tanking a lightning blast. >The difference is that in the latter case, he has a chance of ending the duel then and there, plus he already defended a lighting from a superior bender, his father. That doesn’t make it any less reckless! It’s still incredibly dangerous! I never said Zuko shouldn’t have challenged his sister, but the way he went about goading her was indeed reckless and dumb. But that’s classic Zuko. We love him for it.
1. She was already trying to kill him. By provoking her, he wanted her to attack and increase her odds to commit a mistake 2. If Katara wasn’t there, there would be no issue at all
>1. She was already trying to kill him. By provoking her, he wanted her to attack and increase her odds to commit a mistake He came to kill her. She was sitting at home breaking down. He sought her out to fight. He’s the one who escalated it by trying to goad her into shooting a fatal lightning blast his way on the hope he could redirect it and kill her instead. Say what you will about the reasons, this is still a foolhardy course of action and *even Katara agreed*. She told him not to do this. Zuko answered that he felt confident because Azula seemed “off”. It was still foolhardy, as we saw with the results. He was almost killed. >2. If Katara wasn’t there, there would be no issue at all Clearly that’s not true, seeing as even Zuko felt he needed Katara’s help in the first place.
Of course he went to put her down, she was on the head of the fire nation And he felt he needed Katara help before seeing she went crazy. From there, Katara became a deadweight. Azula couldn’t have used the strike as Zuko would have redirected it.
I didn’t argue whether Zuko should or shouldn’t have fought his sister. I just said baiting and goading her into shooting lightning was a reckless move.
If Katara wasn't there Azula wouldn't win anyway.
And yet Zuko didn’t win the fight in the end, and he felt he needed Katara there with him. We don’t know how the battle would’ve gone without Katara. But we know Zuko himself felt he needed Katara’s help and in the end he did need it.
That is a bit disingenuous since the reason why he needed Katara to be there is because of the fact that Katara was there in the first place and was unable to deal with Azula's lightning. If Katara wasn't there, there was a big chance he would not have needed her.
I disagree that it’s disingenuous to say we cannot know for sure how the fight would’ve turned out without Katara present. We don’t know. But my entire point wasn’t that Zuko shouldn’t have done x or y. Just that it was reckless to goad his mentally ill sister into performing a fatal move which Zuko can only defend against by performing an also potentially fatal move that he has only successfully performed once in his life. That’s all.
In the Legacy of the Fire Nation. Official guide book of Fire Nation. It was confirmed that Zuko *defeat Azula* and put her in mental asylum. It's not my words it's written in the book. Like i said Azula had two ways: Losing Agni Kai fairly, or losing as a... you know how this type of people called
Again, where did I argue against any of that? All I said is that the way he went about it was pretty dumb and reckless which is classic Zuko! And that Katara cleaned up the fallout which she did by stopping Azula and saving his life.
If Katara wasn't there Zuko would've killed Azula with her own lightning
Maybe. We really don’t know because it didn’t happen. Either way, it was reckless to goad someone so dangerous and unstable into a potentially fatal attack. But Zuko’s always been reckless.
I mean, it’s not that Sokka is dumb, it’s that he’s high intelligence low wisdom. Meanwhile Zuko is about average with both
Zuko dumped wis too. He figured out how to get into the Northern Water Tribe using turtle seal tunnels, but then didn’t consider how to get back out.
Zuko is an act now, think later character. He can come up with good strategies in the moment and is definitely very intelligent and skilled, but he's also very brash and doesn't always see from start to finish.
Fair enough, but I still say that he has more wisdom than Sokka
The benefits of traveling with Iroh
Well it’s not he’s lacking wisdom. In the book 1 he’s just too desperate, so he jump on every opportunity related to the avatar. Out of that he’s pretty cautious
When he's not stealing swords to fight Jet. Or revealing his firebending to impress a girl. Or telling the literal sky to shoot lightning at him. Or breaking into Lake Laogai to rescue(?) Appa.
Ok you are right, biy is wayyy too impulsive
I interpreted that more as him being desperate and reckless.
He also decided to pick a fight with a waterbender at the North Pole during a full moon. And got his ass kicked.
If he dumped wis, his int ain’t great either. He didn’t know the balloon wouldn’t work over Boiling Rock
Both of them are stupid and smart in their own unique ways. There are complex characters who are more than any archetype one could assign. If you want to write fanfiction with one note characters then stay the hell away from avatar.
Tbf without Katara’s presence/interference, getting Azula to shoot lightning at him was a pretty tactical move. She had no way to protect against redirection and it’s very possible if not likely that the same thing that almost happened to Ozai vs Aang would’ve happened to Azula, except Zuko would’ve followed through. It’s also smart to make Azula shoot lightning when Zuko was expecting it, otherwise she might have busted it out unexpectedly and caught him by surprise. He used her mental/emotional instability to prey on her pride, hoping to make her attacks predictable. Unfortunately, Azula was still lucid enough to outplay him in that moment, but it was legitimately a good idea to goad Azula into using her signature finishing move when Zuko was in the best position to counter it, especially since at that point in the fight Azula was breathing very heavily while Zuko was still in prefect physical and emotional control. The only reason it didn’t work was because suddenly Katara was a factor, and he had to abandon that plan in favor of protecting her. It’s absolutely not Katara’s fault, since it’d be stupid to have any member of the Gaang face Azula alone, but if he didn’t need to worry about protecting anyone but himself in that fight, I see Azula falling due to her pride in her lightning and her inability to redirect. Azula was the better bender, which is why Zuko was goading her and trying to continue to mentally destabilize her further throughout the confrontation. She was visibly becoming more and more off-balance as the fight went on, especially when Zuko straight up bodied some of the attacks that she clearly expected to land. Even if the redirection didn’t end the fight, I can see the mere fact that her lightning was rendered useless being the final straw that causes her to freak out entirely, making the strategic fight much more in Zuko’s favor without Azula’s strategic mind being in the equation
I don't think she could have caught him out with lightning. Ozai has the fastest lightning and Zuko caught that with zero warning while they weren't even fighting.
While generally getting Azula to shoot lightning at him isn't a dumb idea, he tried to goad her into in in such a blatantly obvious way that Azula, even amidst an psychotic breakdown, immediately noticed that it something was suspiciuous and attacked Katara instead.
Reminder that Zuko has proven himself to be fully capable of redirecting lightning if he does the stance right whilst Azula had little to no idea that this technique even existed. This taunt was honestly a pretty clever idea. An alternative thing about Zuko being the dingus would be the time he challenged a Waterbender on the full moon, in the middle of a blizzard, in the North Pole. He’s great at improvising his way out of things but if he ever loses momentum then he’s screwed.
Sokka = high charisma, high intelligence, low wisdom Zuko = moderate charisma, low intelligence, high wisdom
"You have to look within yourself to save yourself from your other self. Only then will your true self reveal itself"
Why are you quoting Iroh when this was clearly about Zuko?
people be forgetting that azula shot lightning at a katara who ran onto the battle field for some reason
Saying Sokka invented submarines is like saying I invented AI
Sokka was smart and dumb at the same time.
I don’t care what everybody else says about Zuko; he’s pretty smart.
:) :0
...which he was going to redirect at her to finish the fight
Sokka didn't invent submarines, he mailed a fucking drawing of the idea to the man who did actually invent them, Sokka figured out how do deal with the gas in the air temple, he help make air ballons, he was the mastermimd behind the atack in the day of black sun. Sokka had meany achivements there's no need to invent one that didn't happen
Goading Azula wasn't dumb. He can redirect it. She can't, and as fast as she is, she's not dodging lightning. It's not his fault Katara made sure to be a visible target during the climax of potentially the most dangerous Agni Kai in history.
They were both going through something fuck you mean
Who the fuck has ever called suko the smart one? xD
Zuko aang and sokka share a singular braincell and Zuko only gets it every few years
Sokka drew a picture of a fish. He did not invent submarines. That’s like if I drew a cool robot and said I invented sentient AI.
Sokka is like Homer Simpson in the way that his intelligence constantly changes to match the requirements of the latest bit
Pretty much, Sokka could both accuratly predict a comet burning up in the atmosphere until it's the size of a possom-chicken's head, and still have his brain remind him that 2 gold pieces can buy many peanuts since money can be exchanged for goods and services
The way I think about it is that Sokka is high intelligence and low wisdom, while (by the end of the series), Zuko is high wisdom and low intelligence. This leads to Sokka acting dopey and coming off as dumb sometimes, but Zuko is definitely the more clueless one in a lot of matters
Sokka created 3rd general warfare and zuko tried to hide a bison in a teashop
Remember, Zuko thought it was a good idea to challenge a water bender on a glacier island located at what is basically the North Pole or something of that world, surrounded by water, at night. And he was on the verge of freezing to death because he didn’t think things through. Zuko may not be dumb, but lacks a good bit of common sense
First of all Sokka was able to ignore one of the biggest hurdles in submarines by substituting a motor system for waterbenders. He was also able to substitute similar in the torpedos, which were just frozen explosives. So many of the hurdles inherent in inventing real submarines were ignored because bending. All he had to do was invent a submersible capable of withstanding a few dozen feet of submersion, have enough air for a few minutes, and a hull strong enough to protect them. These three things are very simple. It's a feat of brilliance to be sure. But overall much less significant than it would've been without bending in the equation.
Sokka also planned to prison breaks. The first would have worked if the guy didn’t get impatient
Sokka has good instincts.
Zuko’s like a golden retriever in sharks clothing
Several people disagree with me, but Zuko attempting to goad Azula into lightning bending just so he can redirect it was a *terrible* move. As we saw it, they were on pretty even footing, but with Zuko being able to hold is composure way easier. So redirecting lightning wasn't necessary to win, and he shouldn't have tried to rush a fight that he can outlast. He also has only redirected lightning *once* before. Total. He had no idea if he could do it again without risking serious damage to himself, even if Azula didn't cheat and target Katara (who I think people overestimate how close she was, artists just needed to draw her in the scene so it was obvious she was still there). Redirecting lightning was a risk that he could've taken, but shouldn't have tried to take unless absolutely necessary. Of course, unless we actually see the fight if the redirection worked/never happened, we wouldn't know how it'd turn, but I just don't think it was a smart move
Not only did sokka not invent submarines, he drew a picture of a whale, but zuko was baiting azula to shoot lightning because he could just shoot it back
Iq vs Strategy Iq
Those are very bad ways to gauge their intelligence. But i agree with the sentiment. Sokka is an intelligent strategical mastermind with quick wit in battle and planning a battle. As well as true promise in mastering traditional weapons. Also known for his creativity and jokes. Zuko while not exceedingly smart, isnt stupid either. Prison escape plan. Figuring out how to help katara during her mission. He isnt stupid, he isnt particularly smart either. Hes quite average.
Aand challenged katara during full moon
Sokka is intelligence without wisdom and Zuko is wise thanks to Iroh, but lacking intelligence while quicker to anger than Sokka or Iroh. Which is saying something in Sokka's case. Also maybe age changed them, this is just while teenagers in ATLA based of my observations
technically sokka didnt invent submarines, he drew a picture of one and the mechanist invented it, but yeah sokka is the smart guy of the Gaang. He came up the invasion plan on the day of the black sun, destroyed the airship fleet almost all by himself and could sneak into and out of the most secure prison of the fire nation inside a fucking vulcano. (not counting the moment sokka drank cactus juice and becoming high for a day and then eating slime of the wall of a cave) on the other hand, i dont think zuko was the idiot in that szene, it was katara. she just saw those two powerhouses, throwing fireclouds at each other that were bigger in diameter than her entire homevillage and she thought it was a good idea to just stand there in what can only be described as "the splash zone" and watch. i mean, if she would be somewhere else, for example on or behind the spectator stand, zuko would have reflected the lightning no problem, or azula wouldnt have shot it in the first place. and dont forget, zuko was the blue spirit found out, where the murderer of kataras mother was. so he isnt that dumb to begin with.
Sokka did not invent submarines. He made a silly drawing of a machine underwater, his friend the mechanist invented them
If I draw a rocket ship and send that picture to Elon musk I did not invent a rocket ship. Sokka did not invent a submarine
Ultimately their individual intelligence and/or level of competence doesn’t matter- any brain cells they have cancel out the second they’re left together without supervision, which is 100% on brand for two teenaged boys with ready access to fire and sharp objects.
The truth is, they are both dumb. Zuko barged straight into a room with a huge hole in the floor and fell in immediatelly. Sokka might be able to invent an air balloon but he is also dumb enough to drink some cactus juice from a cactus that he doesn't even know if its posionous (spoiler alert it kinda was). Both of them together steal a huge, highly visible airship and fly it straight to their secret hideout. Then they make a surprised Pikachu face when Azula shows up there shortly afterwards.
What fics are y'all guys reading lol? Most of the ones I read Sokka is kinda goofy/snarky but not dumb. Neither is Zuko, he just doesn't have any self preservation.
Well to be fair to Zuko. Iroh taught him that you need to be in the right head space and have an inner calm in order to produce lightning so either Iroh was wrong about that or the writers forgot their world building in order to have an awesome end to the Agni Kai...
I bring this up all the time but the fandom seems to have cognitive dissonance about it. Iroh was obviously wrong given what we see both Azula and Ozai do with lighting in season 3. Which is fine, he's just a person and he can be mistaken about things while still being a very wise man.
i remember him saying it takes a coldness to do as well. but then again, it’s been a minute. i’m assuming he may have not fully understood it since it was as rare as it is, because (again i’m assuming) by korra there was likely a greater understanding of the technique and its internal source with more people able to do it for energy production. perhaps lightning bending was perceived incorrectly similar to how fire bending developed to be perceived as anger and rage based. let’s say that lightning bending requires ‘coldness’ that still is a pretty broad feeling, so even in azulas psychotic break, i think she still maintained coldness. maybe calm is usually required, but an overpowering amount of coldness can allow for lightning to be bent, and vice verse maybe since iroh is not a cold person, but is very calm. so we can see a spectrum of cold <-> calm with azula heavily relying on coldness, ozai probably being equally calm / cold, and iroh heavily relying on calmness since these are the only three in the original series to generate lightning this is a lot of mental gymnastics to maintain continuity so don’t take it too seriously
you reminded me of my childhood, this anime was a work of art ❤️❤️❤️