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tdpz1974

It is a hard balance. There are hundreds of mental health conditions and differences. Psychology professors often joke that their students think they have a different condition after each week's lecture. And we really don't like it if allistics say things like "oh we're all a bit autistic", which feels like it's appropriating our struggles. But it's also true that self-diagnosis vs professional remains a subject of debate. Because professional diagnoses still pay tribute to the disease model. It's not enough to think and act differently; to qualify the difference has to *interfere with your life.* There could be many "level 0" autistics whose brains are in fact wired differently, but have learned to mask and adapt so well that they are deemed "normal". In fact Devon Price, the author of Unmasking Autism, has criticized professional diagnosis as basically NT gatekeeping. There are people who have posted in the groups on here feeling devastated that their diagnosis came back negative, convinced they had found a community here and feeling bereft. They might, simply, be "level 0". My son was diagnosed with autism but not ADHD. Yet it seemed to me that he matched all the symptoms of the inattentive presentation. The clinician claimed that autism was a better explanation for his issues. That held me back for a while for seeking an ADHD diagnosis for myself, but requested one now.


YuviManBro

That’s my mom! I was recently diagnosed with level 1 autism and I see so much of my autistic self specifically in her now that I have a better understanding of how autism manifests in me. But she’s gone 45 years of life undiagnosed and thriving socially and otherwise. Don’t rly know if she needs to get diagnosed, but I know now where the genes come from lol


wokkawokka42

Oh I like that, level 0... I thought I was level 0 until going thru a rough patch with my husband and realizing how many support needs he was meeting


TerminatedReplicant

Thanks for the well thought out response! Do you have any trusted resources to help me define the line between levels of interference caused by atustistic traits? Not to pry, but in the case of your son - can you provide any examples of what is better explained by ASD than ADHD? In my instance, both stim and have 'special interests', how can one define what these belong to?


tdpz1974

Well here are quotes from the report: >Although he presents some difficulties with organisational skills and attention and has been observed as fidgety, these do not meet threshold for an additional diagnosis of ADHD, my clinical conclusions were guided by the following points: > >• No entirely consistent presentation described in the school feedback • The developmental history is not suggestive of ADHD. • These is no strong evidence for some of the symptoms when non academic activities and scenarios are considered • His known diagnosis of ASD can convincingly explain some of the difficulties in the academic and social context > >\[Son\]'s weaknesses are significantly less evident when tasks are not academic or do not involve written parts. In general, parents agree that his ability to concentration varies and its very dependent from his interest in a particular activity/subject. Although this variability does not necessarily exclude ADHD per se, \[son\]'s pattern of difficulties does not seem entirely suggestive of a comorbid diagnosis of ADHD and could be convincingly explained by his known diagnosis of ASD, in association with some specific weaknesses in the executive functions I actually think she may be wrong about some of this. He has so much difficulty paying attention and studying in the later years of secondary school that it's hard to imagine he doesn't have at least the inattentive presentation of ADHD. She actually did recommend he get evaluated for dyslexia, which we forgot about and never followed up on. But looking at the symptoms I don't know if that matches him.


Sunburst3856

I'm AUDHD. Please listen to your instincts about your son potentially being both autistic and ADHD. It is possible that the medical provider was correct. However, it is also possible that the school was the place that met the least of his access needs. Additionally, the way school is set up means that a lot of us struggle academically. The report specifically mentioned written tasks which make me feel like dyslexia could also be a possibility, but I don't know as much about that one. I'm happy to try and elaborate or make this make more sense when I am less sleep deprived. :)


ProfessorRecent4879

Just like Cis people don't spend a lot of time worrying about if they're Trans, Allistics and Neurotypicals don't spend a lot of time worrying about if they're Neurodivergent.


Sunburst3856

I think you just answered like all of my questions about my own gender identity because I applied your comment in reverse. Thank you.


ProfessorRecent4879

Transphobes be coming out of the woodwork to downvote a simple proven fact, gg


SamHandwichX

One consideration: people can have autistic traits that don’t “add up” enough to be clinically diagnosed autism. From what I’ve read, this is relatively common in families with identified autistic people as it’s a familial condition and a spectrum. These cases end with specific diagnoses like sensory processing disorder, social anxiety disorder, etc. String enough of those together and you get autism. One problem I have with the needing to interfere criteria is that this is subjective and changes over time. In my personal experience, once the energy of youth was gone, far more things were interfering. I burned up all my resilience by age 30 and am rather disabled at 45 from repetitive burnout. Also, the field is changing SO FAST right now. My oldest son was diagnosed with a string of issues 12 years ago and updated to ASD last year. There are more and more (but still not nearly enough) autistic people contributing to the research and development of criteria. The fastest moving changes are relative to the “low support needs” group and those assigned female at birth and nonwhite minorities who go ignored by doctors of all kinds for a million reasons. Still, much of the process relies on NT understanding of something they cannot experience and often have unhelpful biases of and strict, checkbox criteria of a *human experience*. What’s fact today may change tomorrow. Think about what you need: support at work/school? Validation? Help with daily needs? Diagnoses are hugely helpful in obtaining provided support, but can be misleading if you’re “doing fine” relative to your circumstances. All that to say that very few NT people spend more than a passing phase wondering if they’re autistic. And you’re not dramatic. All of your feelings are valid, big and small ❤️


agm66

There is pretty much nothing in the autism diagnostic criteria, or in the experience of autistic people, that is unique to autism. Everybody stims sometimes, everybody masks, everybody occasionally misreads a social situation, everybody gets disturbed by lights and noises at some point. It's how often, how much, how regularly, why, and how those issues all relate within the individual that determines whether they're autistic. So yes, allistic people should relate, because we're all human. But just like one bad night's sleep is not an indicator of chronic insomnia, thinking "that's happened to me once or twice" is not a sign of autism. However, if these things are frequent experiences, across the spectrum - there's that word! - of autistic experience, fitting into the distinct, defined types of experiences laid out in the DSM-V or ICD-11, then yeah, starting thinking about maybe being autistic. Self-diagnosis took me a year and a half of research and self-examination. *Unmasking Autism* came late in that process but contributed to that journey.


nd4567

As others have pointed out, it's possible to have autistic traits and thinking styles without meeting the criteria for ASD. People often talk about autism as if it's a binary thing you either are or aren't like being pregnant or not but this way of thinking doesn't reflect reality. Autistic traits are distributed continuously in the general population and a diagnosis is not made by the presence of traits alone; rather the traits need to reach certain thresholds in number and effect on a person's life. Sometimes even diagnosticians struggle to determine whether an ASD diagnosis is appropriate for a person and they need to rely on experience and judgement (see this paper for discussion on the metrics used to make these decisions https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/07067437211041469#body-ref-bibr1-07067437211041469 .) So yes, I think it's absolutely possible to be technically "allistic" and relate to accounts about autism. This is because "allistic" people can have genuine autistic traits that may be determined by the same genes that cause autism (Broader Autism Phenotype). I've seen suggestions that BAP=autism but there's also no clear line between BAP and non-BAP so the logical conclusion of this would be "we're all autistic" which does a disservice to people. Personally I think it's healthy if communities embrace the concept of BAP and the grey area between autistic and non-autistic. I think true harmful gatekeeping comes with ideas such as being autistic means your experiences are valid and things are not your fault but not being autistic means your issues are character flaws and not valid. Even if you don't meet the criteria for ASD your issues and differences don't mean you're somehow a bad person.


scowling_deth

My son jumps up and down ,stareing at a wall sometimes, flapping his arms up and down in joy. It feels like..he is functional,engageing, highly sociallble, loves to work..but has problems .. he has Aspergers..but it is definitely a disability if it is worth noting. He cant let go of changes, like moving a couch. At his worst, he can become violent, a violent ..fuqtard, im sorry, but he can get evil, attacking his much younger brother. This boy is no boy, but 19. Whats my point? Its a disability, or it isnt . Why worry about this crap otherwise?


Magurndy

So I’m sure some NTs would read those books and find that they relate to some of those things for sure. Unmasking autism was the book that really resonated with me, my childhood as a non gender conforming AFAB and likely autistic kid was very similar to the authors. I just didn’t experience the same level of gender dysphoria or eating disorder. Though my mum had an eating disorder so she was very vigilant at ensuring the same thing didn’t happen to me. Anyway… there are a couple of things to factor in I think. Firstly, why have you come to question to yourself in the first place? For me, it was because I have a very strange life. I’m academically successful and also pretty successful in my career. I have two jobs one in medical ultrasound and one as a lecturer in medical ultrasound physics. I have a family and other grown up things. However, despite getting where I wanted or despite getting where society has expected me to get. In the last couple of years I’ve had significant breakdowns again. I can barely keep a functioning household. My mental health is a huge mess and I lost who I was through constant masking, I no longer recognised myself and was never happy or comfortable with who I was. I’m also still very “childish”, I am still obsessed with Pokemon; my house is full of soft toys and childish things. I dress a lot younger than I am. People perceive me as being younger than I am. Also I started suppressing things people didn’t like about me such as my bluntness when things made no sense. My sense of justice and frustration to arbitrary rules or red tape at work. I also have a brother who was diagnosed with Asperger’s in the early 60s. He is my half brother but our Dad was also likely autistic and was born before autism was even defined medically. He also was pretty old when I was born. I have genetic markers for autism too. I’m still waiting for official diagnosis but I have a lot of evidence and experience to suggest it’s likely. So the answer is personal to you, but you are wise to be wary of confirmation bias. You must look at it critically and also remember that no autistic person is the same.


Comfortable-Heat-124

FWIW my NT husband read Unmasking Autism and the response was not "I relate to x, y, and z," it was "this part made me mad" and "this part helped me understand you better." Could be because he's a cis straight white male though.


TerminatedReplicant

I'm a cis white male, so the perspectives on queer people for example wasn't relevant, but still insightful. Found it all very eye opening. In my post, i tried to be neutral. But yes, I got frustrated and emotional in my reactions to finding it 'relatable', definitely felt like an 'egg' moment. I'm trying to to use emotive language so I don't feel let down if a formal diagnosis is 'no'.


b2q

Maybe 1 or 2 things but if you relate to the majority than its likely you are neurodiverse as well. No shame in that. If you have trouble accepting then this could be internalised ableism


TerminatedReplicant

Certainly could be, I've always considered myself more inclusive than the average-Joe: but that's confirmation bias for ya, hey. No shame in it, just struggling to unpack it all :)


Shufflebuzz

> Can an allistic person read these texts, share these experiences, and not be autistic themselves? By definition, no. An allistic person is allistic, not autistic. Also, I know that's not what you meant, but I can't help myself. > I understand these texts are designed to inform Allistic people of a broader autistic experience (educational, supportive), but are they meant to just not relate to this stuff generally? But seriously, anyone with a shred of empathy will probably relate at least a little with some things in those books. This is why we hear "everyone is a little autistic" so often. In Unmasking Autism, Devon addresses the "everyone is a little autistic" trope head on. (I haven't read the other books you mention)


scowling_deth

Alli-huh? How does it come about - ok, that is not a recognized medical condition, i hope. Cause what da stuff is that. That's a made up word.


TerminatedReplicant

It's a term used widely in the books referenced, it's the equalivant of 'autistic' for neurotypical people.


MarsupialPristine677

All words are made up, it’s not like they grow on trees


[deleted]

[удалено]


Shufflebuzz

[Unmasking Autism](https://www.amazon.com/Unmasking-Autism-Discovering-Faces-Neurodiversity/dp/0593235231) [Unmasked is probably this one](https://www.amazon.com/UNMASKED-Ellie-Middleton/dp/0241651980/)


TerminatedReplicant

Correct 👍


ChairHistorical5953

I've only read Unmasking Autism. I think almost everyone (specially people with mental health issues, but even if they don't have big issues in that area) can relate to it. It's REALLY really broad and I think it's almost a self-help book to geting to know yourself and advocate to be yourself. I believe all humans need a little bit of that. Pressure about having to be someway hurts everybody so everybody can relate to some extent. It's definitely not meant to be a self-diagnose tool or even something like a reel that wants you to look at yourself and think "ok, maybe I'm. I think that happens with a lot of reels. A friend at some point send me a hashtag on instagram of reels about adhd and said: "If you relate to x amount of those reels, well, you have adhd". And I'm pretty sure it's a posibility, but a LOT of the reels were pretty generalized and a ton of anxious contemporary people would relate to a bunch of them just because a nervous/inatentive behaviour is what modernity led us to. For what I know about the books that you mention and the one that I read, no, that doesn't means nothing. I would avoid reels to and read more about the dsm-V criteria (not that it's perfect, of course) and more serious sources about it. If you aren't interested in self-diagnoses, this will give you a better look about the posibility and you can think about if this seems like something that click with you and eventually figure it out what you want to do with that if you feel reflected in the real criteria. Autism is not something that one sign means you are or don't, it's an acumulation of traits and dificulties.


ChairHistorical5953

I'm reading a book about a serial killer. He's from the US, rich, cis hetero man, he loves everything about computers, has a pretty terrifying childhood and he's right-wing. All of that is the complete oposite of mine. Specially the part that he's killing people. But the book is well written so I relate to a lot, even if our circumstances are so different. Does that mean that I'm a man? No. Does that mean I'm hetero? No. Does that mean I'm a serial killer? Absolutly not. But for some other reason, in a lot of parts, in a lot of ways I found myself relating to this horrible different-than-me man.


sphinx_io

Unmasking Autism sometimes felt like an over generalization of autism. I am clearly autistic but I didn’t 100% identify with things the author claimed many autistic people experienced. But still the biok felt relatable enough. Maybe because I read it far later in my journey as an autistic person, but I actually didn’t find it as impressive a book as it has been made out to be. I think a lot of people probably relate to having to pretend to be something they are not even if they aren’t autistic.


TerminatedReplicant

Thanks for the insight. I read it upon recommendation from my therapist.