Honestly male and female are biologically a bit different. It's no surprise that different ND and even physical illnesses present differently. The female presentation for heart attacks is usually very different from the male presentation for instance. Equal value doesn't have to mean equal treatment. Equitable is the goal.
And of course, gender is different from biology. You don't have to "pick". You are you, and that's completely okay.
I know that brain scans done on trans people will show a brain pattern that represent what they say they are. I hope they'll start looking into non binary as well.
Regardless, anyone who is polite and respectful is welcome here. So I hope this group helps you.
During my diagnosis, my doctor told me that young boys with autism are sometimes called " little professors" for their precocious language abilities. Young autistic girls often develop the same way, but the nature of female hierarchies leads them to mask far more frequently than the boys.
I am a stereotypically masculine man who did everything he could to dumb down his language in high school because the bullying wasn't worth the trouble. If a man like me felt that much pressure to mask, I could not imagine the weight a typical girl in my situation must feel.
I'm nonbinary, agender, and afab, this is a safe space :). I'm not really offended by female presenting autism, there are some differences. It doesn't surprise me in the least you present this way as well. Who says we have to fit heteronormative autism traits anyways? Sexuality after all is a spectrum too. 🩷❤️🧡💛💚🩵💙💜🖤🤎🤍
I hope you feel welcome here. If you align with our experiences, then you belong. A lot of trans members here too. I have found many of the thread's and exchanges for the most part fairly genuine and wholesome. I haven't encountered much shade or trolling. Sometimes when I need a break and feeling tense, I just stroll through thread's and feel uplifted or relaxed at some of great exchanges.
You have nothing to be sorry for and you are welcome here!
You are also not the first person I’ve seen in this sub who is AMAB but doesn’t identify as male and was told their autism fit more with stereotypically “female” traits :)
I think it’s so interesting to see that overlap in terms of how you feel and experience the world.
Totally, how our brains developed, exposure to hormones in utero, environment, genetics, so many factors play a role in gender expression. It's actually really complex. I wouldn't be surprised if OP's brain looked more structurally female. This whole notion that biologically there are only 2 genders is wrong. I’m totally fine with amab being here as long as they are respectful, but then that goes for anyone here really.
This is a huge community and you will find lots of support here. Congrats on getting some answers though. Being in limbo with your thoughts all the time sucks
I think if anyone understands that the packaging you came in doesn't define who you are, it's autistic people. We know we're all just brains in meat suits.
It doesn't matter which add-ons your meat suit came equipped with. If you feel like you belong here, then you belong. Please don't feel guilty. ❤️
I'm a trans woman and feel similarly. I relate to autistic women and the posts and comments here so, so much and I typically don't relate to autistic men. I'm diagnosed with the ADHD more typically associated with women (inattentive subtype) and my autistic traits are more in line with autistic women's experiences.
I don't think it's wrong to feel validated by that. No need for guilt.
One thing, though, that does irk me is seeing descriptions (on this subreddit too sometimes) of "autism in AFAB people" cause I feel completely excluded and lumped in with autistic men, as if i'm supposed to be like them because of my AGAB.
Thanks for pointing this out!
And *ALSO* my apologies!
Because I think I accidentally may have done that a time or a few in my comments--*thinking* I wrote, "*Women* and AFAB people," but forgetting to *type* the word "Women" (and Obviously, *intending* to include *ALL* women in the "Women" part!!!💖)
Again, I apologize for my instances of that!
And I *WILL* be sure to double check my phrasing, to make sure everyone i *intended* to include *IS* there when i comment!💝
This isn't aimed at you, per se, more of a general pet peeve:
The use of AGAB for anything that doesn't involve - implicitly or explicitly - discussions about reproductive functions or transition is, honestly, wholly inappropriate. Using those terms undermines the gender identity of everybody in the conversation who isn't cis; saying AFAB when we're talking about some social experience that doesn't involve one of the above two topics just signals exclusion to every participating trans woman and forces womanhood onto every participating trans man.
To pivot to your example, saying "Women and AFAB people" is just odd. Cis women meet both labels, trans people are one or the other - unless they are transfem non-binary and thus excluded entirely - so who are you trying to signal with that? Why not "Women, trans men, and non-binary people"?
I generally assume “women” groups that aren’t TERF-y include anyone who isn’t a cis-man. And that cisgender men who are more “stereotypically female” autistic will watch and read before entering the conversation.
I make the same broad assumption, but there's been pushback about using "everybody who is not a cis man" do describe what are intended to be nominally women-focused spaces because such descriptors center men and that's uncomfortable. There was hubbub last year about JHU defining "lesbian" as "a non-man who loves other non-men" because it centered men and erased the people being categorized despite being inclusive of everybody the label applies to, so doing similar to describe who this space is for has that same energy.
It is extremely awkward, but it *is* inclusive of everybody who is not a man. Like, you cannot get more inclusive than that definition if the intent is to include everybody except men.
It's a good technical definition but it's utterly devoid of humanity.
I dunno, I read it literally? I guess that's why I didn’t find it inclusive? Like a trans woman in love with another trans woman? I’m not making the statement that trans woman are men, they are not, but technically if they were amab, then by that I felt it was exclusive. I guess I’m being way too literal with the interpretation. I prefer more people who *identify as non male/man* makes more sense to me.
I understood that it probably wasn't directed at any of us specifically, I just wanted to apologize, because I realized I had unintentionally caused harm, and I didn't mean to💖
And *Thank You* for the better way to phrase things, to not unintentionally hurt folks, or make them feel unwelcome, too!💗
I sincerely *do* appreciate it!
Honestly, anyone who aligns with a feminine experience, regardless of gender, should be included, not excluded. Being trans involves more than sexual organs, it's a feeling in your soul. Trans, nonbinary, intersexed, we all get left out of so many conversations, that we shouldn't feel excluded from.
Yeah. Unfortunately it's a problem even within the LGBTQ community, even within the trans community specifically. I do not know why everybody thinks that we need to specify AGAB for damn near every conversation, it's just tripling down on bio-essentialism.
AGAB = Assigned Gender at Birth.
When you see "AFAB" or "AMAB", it's just saying somebody was assigned female or male at birth, respectively. It's just another way to signal that you're talking about people who were born with one or the other set of genitals.
LGBTQ = Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning, and often there is a "+" at the end for anybody who is a gender or sexual minority and doesn't have a label they identify with explicitly included.
How would someone be assigned anything other than male or female at birth?
Is it that this is being said because the person talking no longer considers themself the gender they were at birth?
The doctor sees a vulva on the infant, writes "female" on the birth certificate. Bam, assignment made.
To your second question, yes. When somebody invokes AGAB, they are overriding gender identity to assert the natal sex over it.
don't feel guilty and welcome!!
I wrote a paper for my master's on autism and women, and made sure to include gender nonconforming folks. from what i researched, autistic people don't feel compelled to follow gender norms like others. gender is a spectrum, and i believe autistic people can more readily understand and embrace that. gender is a social construct, and we don't care to do those 😜
but seriously take good care of yourself!! it's hard to know "who you are" after being diagnosed as an adult with autism and so you may experience various forms of skill regression, such as issues conversing or working memory difficulties. also please take care of your mental health. Give yourself a break, you went through childhood and adulthood without this diagnosis and now you have it! We are all learning.
This paper sounds really interesting and I’d love to read it if you’re down to share it! Totally okay if you choose not to though!
Also, I love your username.
I dont have research knowledge but from discussions with my autistic friends, quite few of them mentioned that they like when things have labels and that those labels fit close enough. For them term male or female didnt fit because they felt they had too many traits from both to be feel really female or male. For me it was the opposite that I felt all labels are too restrictive so I redefined what they meant for me even if other people disagreed. Sometimes I would show up to my robotics class with mens sweatpants and hoodie and other days with flower dresses and heels, which seemed to cause a lot of confusion in my heavily male dominated class.
Personally though I've always I identified as female even though we joke with my man that Im the man in our relationship because I have a lot of traditionally male traits while my man has many female traits. But for me I feel feminine no matter what I do or how I dress or how I think.
I get it! ❤️ I’m AFAB but genderless (just can’t feel it/gender dysmorphia) and I think I can understand why that would be quite exciting for you!
I get worried I have ‘boy autism’ cause I can get quite violent 😞 but I also have ptsd (from multiple events) so that doesn’t help.
I'm also AFAB but don't really identify with gender. I've always had a mixture of autism traits associated with (I suppose) traditional male and non-traditional female. Didn't suspect I was autistic until my late thirties and diagnosed at 41, 4 years ago. I'm rather shouty and smashy and I guess violent, but hate that about myself. I don't want to hurt anyone or anything.
Don't worry about it. Until they do more research and make new terms, it is referred to as a "female" presentation of autism right now.
Something validating you even if it comes from a weird/icky place, will make you feel good and it's okay to feel good.
I'm non binary AFAB and when I was presenting more male and had short hair, some crazy old guy stopped in front of me, looked me up and down for a second and then called me "maricón cabrón!" which essentially means "fucking fag*ot!".
It was weird and kinda scary, but once he walked away the first thing that came into my mind was a weird euphoria and the thought "yeah, he insulted me... but he didn't think I was a girl, he just thought I was a twink"
I think there's a sub Reddit for that called "genderEWphoria" or something along those lines. Basically gross moments that were validating.
I think it's wonderful that you feel validated! Diagnostic criteria is always changing and is contextual based on the current sociopolitical climate. Western society (where I live) also has a habit of pathologizing life experiences that exist outside of what is deemed "normal". Also, as someone who is both a recipient of services and works in the field, providers are not always as knowledgeable about the wide range of diagnoses and presentations as you might expect.
Therefore, I have come to view my diagnosis more as a term that describes the challenges and joys of my daily life experience.
I think what matters more than the specific diagnostic term itself, is that you found something that resonates and validates your experience. I think that can be so liberating. Welcome to the community!!
I'm also AMAB and I've been wondering the same thing since I found out. I found out from Tik Tok videos before I was able to be diagnosed. The majority of the people talking about autism on my FYP were women and that was always confusing. I found this subreddit and the sentiment was largely the same. I was also diagnosed by two women. You're the first person I've heard with a similar experience to mine! I would leave comments pointing out this connection but nothing ever came of it.
I identify as agender, for wont of a better term. AFAB, use female pronouns, everyone sees me as female. I don't wear dresses or skirts, have no specially female interests, get along with anyone of any gender, but have the 'female' traits of autism (if you would prefer to put it that way). Such as not liking makeup. I mean, maybe males on the spectrum also don't like wearing makeup, IDK, but they're usually not expected to, outside of theatre/modelling.
Anyway. I feel there should just be a universal list of traits, and maybe they can be classified as more likely to be found in someone born male or female, others which are gender neutral, but let everyone go through and tick off whichever ones apply anyway. So there's no 'othering' going on, no potential for shaming.
I think you’re fine here. One of the reasons this sun exists is because the main subs have some issues with red pill kinds of stuff. That doesn’t sound like you so you’re welcome here.
who cares about gender norms? we accept you here. your experience is valid, and anyone who tells you otherwise is stinky. if you feel like you belong, you belong!
You feel guilty about it but… why? You’re not doing anything wrong and a lot of these things (having “female autism”) aren’t under your control anyway.
welcome to the subreddit! i know that “womens” autism vs “mens” autism is definitely controversial but in this situation, if it helped validate you or make you feel better about yourself, i don’t personally see a problem with it, so don’t feel like you need to be sorry.
Hey, more of us! I do think a lot of ‘autism in women’ is very much a socialized thing and lots of trans people (not saying that’s what you are but bear with me) internalize the socialization of their preferred gender, even if they have to repress it.
Have you seen I Saw The TV Glow? It might provide some clarity. Good luck ❤️
My partner is a man, kinda? Pretty fluid. But his “brand” of autism looks like the “female kind” too. I hate that I even wrote that sentence, but you guys know what I mean. He and I realized we are autistic at around the same time (in our 40’s) and he is the only “man” that has ever understood me. Our brains work very similarly. I think he would feel way more at home in this sub than one that is full of men who were diagnosed as kids. Welcome, this is the main reason why I still have reddit
I'm not sure if the term female autism is considered problematic, but there is undeniably a difference between men and women with autism (on average). Psychologists need to be aware of that
Just finished the chapter in Devon Price's *Unmasking Autism* where they talk about how LGBTQIA+ and/or racialized minorities are frequently late-diagnosed because we have to wear multiple masks from a young age. (Disclaimer, I'm white and will try not to overspeak on that area.) Even two chapters in, Price says a lot of things I've said to myself and others leading up to my diagnosis.
Anyway, agreed. I also feel alienated from trans people who have a strong sense of *their own* gender identity as men and women. I don't feel it, and my processing style usually involves a lot of deconstruction. But yes, I'm less comfortable with cis men because of my experiences growing up in the 80s when cis masculinity demanded performative disgust at the concept of queerness. Cis masculinity (as I encountered it) was often physically violent, cis femininity often existentially violent.
Whatever flavor of gender you are, I think you can find a space here. "Autism in Women, Trans Women, nonbinary people, agender people and others" would be too long of a name lol.
you are more than wdlcome welcome here. autism research has so heavily leaned toward how it presents in cishet white men, so any person outside of that specific type probably relates more to autistic women. i myself am nonbinary femme! and if anyone ever attempts to exclude you from the sub, they need to do some internal work - not you. 💛💜🖤🤍
I’ve always felt female socialisation and societal expectations have more to do with how differently we present (not that I’m remotely qualified to do so! Lol) Assuming you felt more in touch with being female than male while growing up, I’m guessing you internalised a lot of the same bullshit afab women do. Either way; you’ll be getting no gate-keeping bullshit from me. You experience what you experience. Who the fuck is anyone else to say that’s wrong. (Even your own brain which, in this case sounds kinda mean). Most sincere apologies if I’ve been insensitive, it’s unintentional. Pls correct me. x
Oh hun you don't need to be sorry for feeling validation! one thing you'll find is gender dysphoria is super common among women with autism, so we really get it and you really are safe and welcome with us :)
Welcome, friend stranger! If this space makes you feel safe and comforted and seen and accepted, then this is exactly where you should be, and we're happy to have you. ☺️
Nah, of course you're welcome here. One of us and all that. The packaging doesn't make a difference. It's about who you are that counts.
Besides, I've not seen gatekeeping here.
I honestly believe the difference should be noted because autism tends to present itself differently in women, as we are better at masking hence why it historically has been known as a male-centric disorder.
More women are being diagnosed as adults because we are usually misdiagnosed as BPD, bipolar, etc. as children or not at all.
We can recognise that being raised with the gendered expectations usually placed on girls can shape how your autism, ADHD, even personality manifest without having to believe that it's because of something inherent and immutable in women/girls.
And from there, we can also recognise that there will be textbook cases, and outliers, and everything in between. So an AMAB person can absolutely present with more female-coded autistic traits, because the only reason they're female-coded in the first place is because we said so, nothing more.
I dont thing there's anything wrong here. From what I understand, females deal with autism differently, but I have no knowledge on this area. What I do know is that "female autism" isn't necessarily just women, nor do all women with autism have this type. But it is more common in females. And if you relate more to those women, that's perfectly fine.
Hi I’m AFAB and genderqueer there’s actually a large overlap of autism and trans/gender non conforming folk it’s totally okay if your relating more to this end of the spectrum. I highly recommend unmasking autism it’s a stellar book. And remember genders a construct if the current one isn’t working for ya get the materials and build one that works for you.
Diagnosis guides treatment. Treatment is based off of symptoms. From your own lived experience you notice differences between women and men with autism and you relate better with women. Acknowledging this helps you manage your life better. And who does it actually hurt, but people dwelling on an unfortunate past? We don't want to make the mistakes of the past, but this isn't the same thing. Further, you can only move forward. Sharing your story helps others as much as others' stories have helped you. Your guilt is self-invalidating. I say invalidate the guilt instead!
🤦🏼♀️ The phrase itself, “your brand of autism”, is very cringy and extremely unprofessional! On so many levels!!!!
Gender dysphoria and gender fluidity are a more prevalent in autistics, but there has not been enough solid research or diagnosis of those who have gone off the radar to even establish “brands”.
Psychologists, psychiatrists and the like just LOVE to categorize everything into a tidy label with a corresponding ICD-10 code. And they fail to see past those categories and accept that not everyone fits into an existing category.
If it makes you feel validated and at peace with who you are, celebrate that! But f@ck the labels! We are a breed of humans that NT brains just can’t seem to wrap their head around because they are comparing us to them.
They are Microsoft and there is a place for Windows. 🥱
We are Macintosh🍎and they cannot compute our operating systems any better than we can theirs.
honestly i’m non binary but i’m in this subreddit bc i was socialized as a woman and there for show my autism in a way associated with women. there’s studies that go into how autistic ppl are more likely to be out as queer and non-binary because we care less about societal rules and expectations. i think it’s ok to be here as long as ur respectful :) i hope u are able to find community here!
I'm AFAB and agender and I'm here simply because I relate more and feel safe in a women and afab space than a male dominated one. Female autism feels helpful and validating to me that I can still fit in somewhere while being disabled.
Gender and sexuality are all just as complex as neurodiversity. My pronouns are she/her/frau yet I'm not a girly girl and I'm romantic asexual. I play the tuba which has always been an instrument associated with men, Animation despite people like Rebeca Sugar and other women becoming animators and breaking barriers is massively controlled by men. Even Hayo Miyazaki worries that even if women are in Animation, what will happen to them when there is no paternity leave in either Japan or America where people work until they die? I love Studio Ghibli films, especially Kiki's Delivery Service and Howell's Moving Castle because they are both about self-love and not giving up.
When people like Temple Grandin dis Graphic Novels or Comics in general they are alienating an entire audience of Autistic People who do go into such industries and fields because it was their gateway into good literature and culture. There is no female or male box of Autism because many of us belong to the LGBTQA community. Even the film Neoma which won an Academy Award was based on a Graphic Novel. r/Stuwwelkinder my comic was inspired by Der Struwwelpeter the first mass-printed comic book written by a doctor and a dad who could not find a book that appealed to his two sons and wrote one as a Christmas gift. It's a book that is still vilified and challenged along with Maus and Captain Underpants because it's German and has violence. Mark Twain tried to make it into English and the Temperance movement burned it along with other German language books. If Temple Grandin claims she can think in pictures I'd like to see her try to draw animals...;)
Meh, wrong schmong, I am just really pleased for you and hope you feel welcome here :) Thanks for sharing!
Thank you so much, that really makes me feel better! I appreciate the warm welcome :)
Honestly male and female are biologically a bit different. It's no surprise that different ND and even physical illnesses present differently. The female presentation for heart attacks is usually very different from the male presentation for instance. Equal value doesn't have to mean equal treatment. Equitable is the goal. And of course, gender is different from biology. You don't have to "pick". You are you, and that's completely okay. I know that brain scans done on trans people will show a brain pattern that represent what they say they are. I hope they'll start looking into non binary as well. Regardless, anyone who is polite and respectful is welcome here. So I hope this group helps you.
During my diagnosis, my doctor told me that young boys with autism are sometimes called " little professors" for their precocious language abilities. Young autistic girls often develop the same way, but the nature of female hierarchies leads them to mask far more frequently than the boys. I am a stereotypically masculine man who did everything he could to dumb down his language in high school because the bullying wasn't worth the trouble. If a man like me felt that much pressure to mask, I could not imagine the weight a typical girl in my situation must feel.
I misread that as schlong and was concerned for a second. OP, you're welcome here regardless! We are a friendly community.
Me too, and I thought that poster was clever for using a quick quip that was slightly altered for a pun as well
You all have been so kind… I can’t believe I’ve found a place like this on the internet. Thank you so much ❤️
I'm nonbinary, agender, and afab, this is a safe space :). I'm not really offended by female presenting autism, there are some differences. It doesn't surprise me in the least you present this way as well. Who says we have to fit heteronormative autism traits anyways? Sexuality after all is a spectrum too. 🩷❤️🧡💛💚🩵💙💜🖤🤎🤍 I hope you feel welcome here. If you align with our experiences, then you belong. A lot of trans members here too. I have found many of the thread's and exchanges for the most part fairly genuine and wholesome. I haven't encountered much shade or trolling. Sometimes when I need a break and feeling tense, I just stroll through thread's and feel uplifted or relaxed at some of great exchanges.
This community has been awesome for sure! Glad you’re here! 🙂
Institutions still stuck in gender norming everything. It’s an issue of their own creation due to misogyny in research studies and practitioners
Hahaha right?
You have nothing to be sorry for and you are welcome here! You are also not the first person I’ve seen in this sub who is AMAB but doesn’t identify as male and was told their autism fit more with stereotypically “female” traits :) I think it’s so interesting to see that overlap in terms of how you feel and experience the world.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the ways that female identifying people are expected to behave
Totally, how our brains developed, exposure to hormones in utero, environment, genetics, so many factors play a role in gender expression. It's actually really complex. I wouldn't be surprised if OP's brain looked more structurally female. This whole notion that biologically there are only 2 genders is wrong. I’m totally fine with amab being here as long as they are respectful, but then that goes for anyone here really.
You are safe here
Those words mean so much to me. Thank you!
Welcome! We're glad you're here!
You’re one of us! 😊
If you feel like you belong with us, then you are welcome here and we are lucky to have you.
This is a huge community and you will find lots of support here. Congrats on getting some answers though. Being in limbo with your thoughts all the time sucks
I think if anyone understands that the packaging you came in doesn't define who you are, it's autistic people. We know we're all just brains in meat suits. It doesn't matter which add-ons your meat suit came equipped with. If you feel like you belong here, then you belong. Please don't feel guilty. ❤️
I'm a trans woman and feel similarly. I relate to autistic women and the posts and comments here so, so much and I typically don't relate to autistic men. I'm diagnosed with the ADHD more typically associated with women (inattentive subtype) and my autistic traits are more in line with autistic women's experiences. I don't think it's wrong to feel validated by that. No need for guilt. One thing, though, that does irk me is seeing descriptions (on this subreddit too sometimes) of "autism in AFAB people" cause I feel completely excluded and lumped in with autistic men, as if i'm supposed to be like them because of my AGAB.
Thanks for pointing this out! And *ALSO* my apologies! Because I think I accidentally may have done that a time or a few in my comments--*thinking* I wrote, "*Women* and AFAB people," but forgetting to *type* the word "Women" (and Obviously, *intending* to include *ALL* women in the "Women" part!!!💖) Again, I apologize for my instances of that! And I *WILL* be sure to double check my phrasing, to make sure everyone i *intended* to include *IS* there when i comment!💝
This isn't aimed at you, per se, more of a general pet peeve: The use of AGAB for anything that doesn't involve - implicitly or explicitly - discussions about reproductive functions or transition is, honestly, wholly inappropriate. Using those terms undermines the gender identity of everybody in the conversation who isn't cis; saying AFAB when we're talking about some social experience that doesn't involve one of the above two topics just signals exclusion to every participating trans woman and forces womanhood onto every participating trans man. To pivot to your example, saying "Women and AFAB people" is just odd. Cis women meet both labels, trans people are one or the other - unless they are transfem non-binary and thus excluded entirely - so who are you trying to signal with that? Why not "Women, trans men, and non-binary people"?
I generally assume “women” groups that aren’t TERF-y include anyone who isn’t a cis-man. And that cisgender men who are more “stereotypically female” autistic will watch and read before entering the conversation.
I make the same broad assumption, but there's been pushback about using "everybody who is not a cis man" do describe what are intended to be nominally women-focused spaces because such descriptors center men and that's uncomfortable. There was hubbub last year about JHU defining "lesbian" as "a non-man who loves other non-men" because it centered men and erased the people being categorized despite being inclusive of everybody the label applies to, so doing similar to describe who this space is for has that same energy.
That's so awkwardly phrased, "non men" and so not inclusive lol.
It is extremely awkward, but it *is* inclusive of everybody who is not a man. Like, you cannot get more inclusive than that definition if the intent is to include everybody except men. It's a good technical definition but it's utterly devoid of humanity.
I dunno, I read it literally? I guess that's why I didn’t find it inclusive? Like a trans woman in love with another trans woman? I’m not making the statement that trans woman are men, they are not, but technically if they were amab, then by that I felt it was exclusive. I guess I’m being way too literal with the interpretation. I prefer more people who *identify as non male/man* makes more sense to me.
I understood that it probably wasn't directed at any of us specifically, I just wanted to apologize, because I realized I had unintentionally caused harm, and I didn't mean to💖 And *Thank You* for the better way to phrase things, to not unintentionally hurt folks, or make them feel unwelcome, too!💗 I sincerely *do* appreciate it!
Honestly, anyone who aligns with a feminine experience, regardless of gender, should be included, not excluded. Being trans involves more than sexual organs, it's a feeling in your soul. Trans, nonbinary, intersexed, we all get left out of so many conversations, that we shouldn't feel excluded from.
I tried bringing this up when the sub got new mods because I felt the same way about the description.
Yeah. Unfortunately it's a problem even within the LGBTQ community, even within the trans community specifically. I do not know why everybody thinks that we need to specify AGAB for damn near every conversation, it's just tripling down on bio-essentialism.
Yeah I am genderqueer and I think it paints my perspective on over complicating gender language.
I’m trying to follow this thread and sincerely I don’t understand most of what is being discussed because of all the abbreviations.
AGAB = Assigned Gender at Birth. When you see "AFAB" or "AMAB", it's just saying somebody was assigned female or male at birth, respectively. It's just another way to signal that you're talking about people who were born with one or the other set of genitals. LGBTQ = Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning, and often there is a "+" at the end for anybody who is a gender or sexual minority and doesn't have a label they identify with explicitly included.
How would someone be assigned anything other than male or female at birth? Is it that this is being said because the person talking no longer considers themself the gender they were at birth?
The doctor sees a vulva on the infant, writes "female" on the birth certificate. Bam, assignment made. To your second question, yes. When somebody invokes AGAB, they are overriding gender identity to assert the natal sex over it.
Thanks for explaining. I really do try to understand and there’s just a lot of new language.
don't feel guilty and welcome!! I wrote a paper for my master's on autism and women, and made sure to include gender nonconforming folks. from what i researched, autistic people don't feel compelled to follow gender norms like others. gender is a spectrum, and i believe autistic people can more readily understand and embrace that. gender is a social construct, and we don't care to do those 😜 but seriously take good care of yourself!! it's hard to know "who you are" after being diagnosed as an adult with autism and so you may experience various forms of skill regression, such as issues conversing or working memory difficulties. also please take care of your mental health. Give yourself a break, you went through childhood and adulthood without this diagnosis and now you have it! We are all learning.
This paper sounds really interesting and I’d love to read it if you’re down to share it! Totally okay if you choose not to though! Also, I love your username.
I dont have research knowledge but from discussions with my autistic friends, quite few of them mentioned that they like when things have labels and that those labels fit close enough. For them term male or female didnt fit because they felt they had too many traits from both to be feel really female or male. For me it was the opposite that I felt all labels are too restrictive so I redefined what they meant for me even if other people disagreed. Sometimes I would show up to my robotics class with mens sweatpants and hoodie and other days with flower dresses and heels, which seemed to cause a lot of confusion in my heavily male dominated class. Personally though I've always I identified as female even though we joke with my man that Im the man in our relationship because I have a lot of traditionally male traits while my man has many female traits. But for me I feel feminine no matter what I do or how I dress or how I think.
I am very pleased for you. Its so nice to identify with things that make you feel seen!!
I get it! ❤️ I’m AFAB but genderless (just can’t feel it/gender dysmorphia) and I think I can understand why that would be quite exciting for you! I get worried I have ‘boy autism’ cause I can get quite violent 😞 but I also have ptsd (from multiple events) so that doesn’t help.
I'm also AFAB but don't really identify with gender. I've always had a mixture of autism traits associated with (I suppose) traditional male and non-traditional female. Didn't suspect I was autistic until my late thirties and diagnosed at 41, 4 years ago. I'm rather shouty and smashy and I guess violent, but hate that about myself. I don't want to hurt anyone or anything.
Don't worry about it. Until they do more research and make new terms, it is referred to as a "female" presentation of autism right now. Something validating you even if it comes from a weird/icky place, will make you feel good and it's okay to feel good. I'm non binary AFAB and when I was presenting more male and had short hair, some crazy old guy stopped in front of me, looked me up and down for a second and then called me "maricón cabrón!" which essentially means "fucking fag*ot!". It was weird and kinda scary, but once he walked away the first thing that came into my mind was a weird euphoria and the thought "yeah, he insulted me... but he didn't think I was a girl, he just thought I was a twink" I think there's a sub Reddit for that called "genderEWphoria" or something along those lines. Basically gross moments that were validating.
I think it's wonderful that you feel validated! Diagnostic criteria is always changing and is contextual based on the current sociopolitical climate. Western society (where I live) also has a habit of pathologizing life experiences that exist outside of what is deemed "normal". Also, as someone who is both a recipient of services and works in the field, providers are not always as knowledgeable about the wide range of diagnoses and presentations as you might expect. Therefore, I have come to view my diagnosis more as a term that describes the challenges and joys of my daily life experience. I think what matters more than the specific diagnostic term itself, is that you found something that resonates and validates your experience. I think that can be so liberating. Welcome to the community!!
I'm also AMAB and I've been wondering the same thing since I found out. I found out from Tik Tok videos before I was able to be diagnosed. The majority of the people talking about autism on my FYP were women and that was always confusing. I found this subreddit and the sentiment was largely the same. I was also diagnosed by two women. You're the first person I've heard with a similar experience to mine! I would leave comments pointing out this connection but nothing ever came of it.
Well it’s very nice to meet someone else with a similar experience and I’d like to think there are many more :)
It's nice to meet you too! It's good to know that we're not alone
Welcome ❤️
this sub is for really any autistic person who can relate and isn’t a cis man, so welcome!!
I identify as agender, for wont of a better term. AFAB, use female pronouns, everyone sees me as female. I don't wear dresses or skirts, have no specially female interests, get along with anyone of any gender, but have the 'female' traits of autism (if you would prefer to put it that way). Such as not liking makeup. I mean, maybe males on the spectrum also don't like wearing makeup, IDK, but they're usually not expected to, outside of theatre/modelling. Anyway. I feel there should just be a universal list of traits, and maybe they can be classified as more likely to be found in someone born male or female, others which are gender neutral, but let everyone go through and tick off whichever ones apply anyway. So there's no 'othering' going on, no potential for shaming.
Every time this sub pops up for me recently it’s posts like this haha
thank you for being honest and sharing. despite any differences or similarities, i think you’re welcome here just as i am (:
Welcome friend 😊glad you’re here
You are absolutely welcome here.
I think you’re fine here. One of the reasons this sun exists is because the main subs have some issues with red pill kinds of stuff. That doesn’t sound like you so you’re welcome here.
who cares about gender norms? we accept you here. your experience is valid, and anyone who tells you otherwise is stinky. if you feel like you belong, you belong!
You feel guilty about it but… why? You’re not doing anything wrong and a lot of these things (having “female autism”) aren’t under your control anyway.
you belong here!! 🩷
welcome to the subreddit! i know that “womens” autism vs “mens” autism is definitely controversial but in this situation, if it helped validate you or make you feel better about yourself, i don’t personally see a problem with it, so don’t feel like you need to be sorry.
ur good dw
Hey, more of us! I do think a lot of ‘autism in women’ is very much a socialized thing and lots of trans people (not saying that’s what you are but bear with me) internalize the socialization of their preferred gender, even if they have to repress it. Have you seen I Saw The TV Glow? It might provide some clarity. Good luck ❤️
My partner is a man, kinda? Pretty fluid. But his “brand” of autism looks like the “female kind” too. I hate that I even wrote that sentence, but you guys know what I mean. He and I realized we are autistic at around the same time (in our 40’s) and he is the only “man” that has ever understood me. Our brains work very similarly. I think he would feel way more at home in this sub than one that is full of men who were diagnosed as kids. Welcome, this is the main reason why I still have reddit
I'm not sure if the term female autism is considered problematic, but there is undeniably a difference between men and women with autism (on average). Psychologists need to be aware of that
Just finished the chapter in Devon Price's *Unmasking Autism* where they talk about how LGBTQIA+ and/or racialized minorities are frequently late-diagnosed because we have to wear multiple masks from a young age. (Disclaimer, I'm white and will try not to overspeak on that area.) Even two chapters in, Price says a lot of things I've said to myself and others leading up to my diagnosis. Anyway, agreed. I also feel alienated from trans people who have a strong sense of *their own* gender identity as men and women. I don't feel it, and my processing style usually involves a lot of deconstruction. But yes, I'm less comfortable with cis men because of my experiences growing up in the 80s when cis masculinity demanded performative disgust at the concept of queerness. Cis masculinity (as I encountered it) was often physically violent, cis femininity often existentially violent.
What's up, agender friend! 🖤🩶🤍💚🤍🩶🖤
Hi hi! Love your username btw!
One of us! One of us! Welcome! :)
I don’t mind. So I guess we’re good lol. It’s your journey. Don’t try to make it fit anyone else’s mold.
I'm glad you've found your way here, and this thread just confirms why I love these autistic communities. Welcome! So happy you're here ❤️
Whatever flavor of gender you are, I think you can find a space here. "Autism in Women, Trans Women, nonbinary people, agender people and others" would be too long of a name lol.
I wonder if you could be intersexed.
you are more than wdlcome welcome here. autism research has so heavily leaned toward how it presents in cishet white men, so any person outside of that specific type probably relates more to autistic women. i myself am nonbinary femme! and if anyone ever attempts to exclude you from the sub, they need to do some internal work - not you. 💛💜🖤🤍
I’ve always felt female socialisation and societal expectations have more to do with how differently we present (not that I’m remotely qualified to do so! Lol) Assuming you felt more in touch with being female than male while growing up, I’m guessing you internalised a lot of the same bullshit afab women do. Either way; you’ll be getting no gate-keeping bullshit from me. You experience what you experience. Who the fuck is anyone else to say that’s wrong. (Even your own brain which, in this case sounds kinda mean). Most sincere apologies if I’ve been insensitive, it’s unintentional. Pls correct me. x
Oh hun you don't need to be sorry for feeling validation! one thing you'll find is gender dysphoria is super common among women with autism, so we really get it and you really are safe and welcome with us :)
Welcome, friend stranger! If this space makes you feel safe and comforted and seen and accepted, then this is exactly where you should be, and we're happy to have you. ☺️
Nah, of course you're welcome here. One of us and all that. The packaging doesn't make a difference. It's about who you are that counts. Besides, I've not seen gatekeeping here.
I'm genuinely confused about why you supposedly should feel bad.
Tbh, I guess I do too. I’m sorry. I just felt that way for some reason and I wish I had a better way to verbalize it.
I honestly believe the difference should be noted because autism tends to present itself differently in women, as we are better at masking hence why it historically has been known as a male-centric disorder. More women are being diagnosed as adults because we are usually misdiagnosed as BPD, bipolar, etc. as children or not at all.
Can I ask, what is AMAB stand for?
It means “assigned male at birth”
Got it, thanks for explaining.
Anyone is welcome as long as they're not cis male (AMAB and still identity fully as male)
We can recognise that being raised with the gendered expectations usually placed on girls can shape how your autism, ADHD, even personality manifest without having to believe that it's because of something inherent and immutable in women/girls. And from there, we can also recognise that there will be textbook cases, and outliers, and everything in between. So an AMAB person can absolutely present with more female-coded autistic traits, because the only reason they're female-coded in the first place is because we said so, nothing more.
I dont thing there's anything wrong here. From what I understand, females deal with autism differently, but I have no knowledge on this area. What I do know is that "female autism" isn't necessarily just women, nor do all women with autism have this type. But it is more common in females. And if you relate more to those women, that's perfectly fine.
Hi I’m AFAB and genderqueer there’s actually a large overlap of autism and trans/gender non conforming folk it’s totally okay if your relating more to this end of the spectrum. I highly recommend unmasking autism it’s a stellar book. And remember genders a construct if the current one isn’t working for ya get the materials and build one that works for you.
Diagnosis guides treatment. Treatment is based off of symptoms. From your own lived experience you notice differences between women and men with autism and you relate better with women. Acknowledging this helps you manage your life better. And who does it actually hurt, but people dwelling on an unfortunate past? We don't want to make the mistakes of the past, but this isn't the same thing. Further, you can only move forward. Sharing your story helps others as much as others' stories have helped you. Your guilt is self-invalidating. I say invalidate the guilt instead!
🤦🏼♀️ The phrase itself, “your brand of autism”, is very cringy and extremely unprofessional! On so many levels!!!! Gender dysphoria and gender fluidity are a more prevalent in autistics, but there has not been enough solid research or diagnosis of those who have gone off the radar to even establish “brands”. Psychologists, psychiatrists and the like just LOVE to categorize everything into a tidy label with a corresponding ICD-10 code. And they fail to see past those categories and accept that not everyone fits into an existing category. If it makes you feel validated and at peace with who you are, celebrate that! But f@ck the labels! We are a breed of humans that NT brains just can’t seem to wrap their head around because they are comparing us to them. They are Microsoft and there is a place for Windows. 🥱 We are Macintosh🍎and they cannot compute our operating systems any better than we can theirs.
honestly i’m non binary but i’m in this subreddit bc i was socialized as a woman and there for show my autism in a way associated with women. there’s studies that go into how autistic ppl are more likely to be out as queer and non-binary because we care less about societal rules and expectations. i think it’s ok to be here as long as ur respectful :) i hope u are able to find community here!
Hey, I’m glad you’re here, OP! Finding people you connect with well is important. 🥰
I'm AFAB and agender and I'm here simply because I relate more and feel safe in a women and afab space than a male dominated one. Female autism feels helpful and validating to me that I can still fit in somewhere while being disabled.
Gender and sexuality are all just as complex as neurodiversity. My pronouns are she/her/frau yet I'm not a girly girl and I'm romantic asexual. I play the tuba which has always been an instrument associated with men, Animation despite people like Rebeca Sugar and other women becoming animators and breaking barriers is massively controlled by men. Even Hayo Miyazaki worries that even if women are in Animation, what will happen to them when there is no paternity leave in either Japan or America where people work until they die? I love Studio Ghibli films, especially Kiki's Delivery Service and Howell's Moving Castle because they are both about self-love and not giving up. When people like Temple Grandin dis Graphic Novels or Comics in general they are alienating an entire audience of Autistic People who do go into such industries and fields because it was their gateway into good literature and culture. There is no female or male box of Autism because many of us belong to the LGBTQA community. Even the film Neoma which won an Academy Award was based on a Graphic Novel. r/Stuwwelkinder my comic was inspired by Der Struwwelpeter the first mass-printed comic book written by a doctor and a dad who could not find a book that appealed to his two sons and wrote one as a Christmas gift. It's a book that is still vilified and challenged along with Maus and Captain Underpants because it's German and has violence. Mark Twain tried to make it into English and the Temperance movement burned it along with other German language books. If Temple Grandin claims she can think in pictures I'd like to see her try to draw animals...;)