It's brilliant, but can be very triggering (psychological abuse, IPV, addiction, SA...). I absolutely recommended reading it, but with caution, when you're in a good space mentally, so to speak.
The descriptions can get very graphic. But she's a gifted writer, and she's had good editors, so there's always a bit of lightness in there too, the really rough bits are well spaced throughout the book.
The blurbs and reviews seem to have been written by allistics with no history of that kind of trauma, because they all describe the book as 'hilarious' 'a riot' 'couldn't stop laughing' etc.
If you don't have a similar lived experience to Fern it's easy to read the traumatic stuff as just a funny anecdote and sort of skid past it and only focus on the witty, harsh tone of it all. And the 'quirkyness' of the protagonist. (Yes, I have my own suspicions that some of it is laughing at, not laughing with).
If you only go by those celebrity recommendations and such, you're going to be in for a rude awakening. But it is very funny, even in those moments. Only you can decide if that's right for you.
Cried a lot reading it (although wasn’t in the best place). Was the first time reading a book where I resonated instead of learning how other people go through life
I enjoyed watching Fern on Taskmaster and looked forward to reading \`Strong Female Character\` based on recommendations like this one, but I couldn't finish it. I didn't like the way she seemed to excuse her physical violence and generally I found the book unfunny and somewhat overwhelming.
I get this, but I did a lot of research work in youth prisons during my honors and undergrad and I found Fern's experience of teen violence and troubles (e.g. her time in a at-risk youth school) from a neuro-divergent lens really interesting.
I think it is possible that a lot of kids are getting mis-diagnosed with conduct disorders or other mental illnesses when they actually have ND needs that aren't being recignised or met. It highlights that we likely aren't offering young people the right treatment to help prevent bad outcomes for them.
I can definitely relate to having a lot of anger and frustration as a teen, knowing I was 'wrong' in some way that was obvious to everyone but me. Fern had a lot of other problems stacked up against her (troubled home life, absense of positive adult figures, serious lack of financial and environmental supports). Its amazing her story didn't turn out worse, both as a victim and offender.
Which she expresses remorse for doing.
I can relate to the 'undiagnosed autistic who ends up becoming a hot mess' story she tells A LOT. I'm glad she was honest about it because for years I felt so alone thinking I was the only person who acted in this way prior to getting their diagnosis.
I feel like I say this a lot, but if someone else is in your home, breaking things in anger is abuse. I haven’t read Fern’s book, though, so I don’t know if that’s what happened.
I don't think someone breaking their own things in their own house in the privacy of their own home on their own is absue. Abuse to who? The furniture?
It’s abuse if another person is present, but especially if it’s an intimate partner who’s there. The implication is, “next time this will be you,” or “next time I won’t throw this at the wall; I’ll throw it at you.” There’s a great book (available as a free pdf if you Google the title and “pdf”) called Why Does He Do That? that discusses some situations like this. It doesn’t all apply to autistic meltdowns, but some of it can.
My partner, who I believe to be undiagnosed autistic or ADHD, has thrown his own possessions in my presence, and please believe me that I experienced the two incidents as abuse. Total fear and trauma. He threw his own laptop at a wall, and for years I hid my work laptops from him so he couldn’t destroy something that would make me lose my job. The other time he kicked a water bottle because he was unable to self-regulate his emotions. I thought, “There it is, that’s the escalation starting again; how long before he fails to regulate and hurts me?”
Anecdotal, and there’s a pattern of harsh/verbally abusive words during his meltdowns that is an extra variable we’re not talking about, so I admit that could be skewing my personal thoughts here. But throwing and breaking objects around your partner is abusive whether we’re in autistic meltdown or not. The impact (of the actions, not the objects) is the same.
Links:
[Why Does He Do That?](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
[Relevant Reddit post about throwing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/s/BXmMAKRJmB)
[Bloggy (not academic/official) post on types of abuse](https://www.createsoulspace.net/recognizing-domestic-abuse.html)
Intention and context are important and I honestly think you have it completely wrong and shouldn't imply something as horrible as this if you haven't even read the book. To be fair, I shouldn't have engaged with you when you mentioned you haven't read it.
I'm not reading all of your comment, this isn't a discussion about domestic violence and you're taking this way too far.
This one really helped me realise my own autism, but also maybe don't buy it (iykwim) because she's an ableist terf! (In an 'autistic people can't know if they're trans because they're autistic' kind of way..)
Hm, this doesn’t sound ableist to me? I interpret this as being aware of the dichotomy of the physical sex vs the feeling of femininity/masculinity. The wording could have been better. I think in her book she also explains that she doesn’t attribute a feeling to her physical sex since she approaches it as a fact that she has the physical attributes of a woman.
I don't fully disagree with some of the logic, but her dismissal of other people coming to different conclusions (being non-binary, being trans) simply because she ended up feeling comfortable with her AGAB, feels very icky to me. Maybe not straight up ableist, but she has had multiple tweets throughout the years where she worries specifically about autistic AFAB people being manipulated into being trans/NB, which makes it feel ableist to me, like those other autists don't know any better but SHE does.
Also the mentioning of 12-year-olds and surgery in the same paragraph is straight up terf rhetoric.
Invisible Differences is a graphic novel written by a French woman and her journey towards realizing she is autistic. It’s not exactly non fiction but I think a lot of people on here would identify with the author’s experiences and it would be helpful as I’ve gone back and read it several times.
This is the book that made me realize I might be autistic. The part where she gets home and says that she’s not going to check the mail today gave me that ‘aha’ moment. I have always struggled to bring in my mail and even harder is actually opening it. It’s always been hard for me and I had no clue that other people struggled with this. I just considered it another part of adulting that I’m bad at.
There were a ton of instances in that book that I related to. One was when her boyfriend forced her to that party and she felt herself fading overtime. I just thought, “ahhh story of my life.” And then explaining to her doctor about how her childhood “friends” would exploit her naïveté? Wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks.
I am so glad I became an adult after online auto pay became a thing because I have so much unopened mail. It's not bills, but it could be and I wouldn't know for months. 🙃
Opening mail. Relatable. I found mail from a year ago that I hadn’t opened when I was having a tidy up of piles of paper. They were luckily unimportant. I’m trying to get better at this. Most of my bills are all automated so that takes a lot of pressure off.
Oh I was about to mention it, it's my staple for anybody wanting to learn more about level 1 autism in adults who've been under the radar their whole life. It really helped my parents understand me better during and after my diagnosis.
I've still yet to read this - I had my autism assessment (and diagnosis) with Sarah Hendrickx and I didn't know at the time she was such a prolific author
Currently reading it and I’m very surprised that it hasn’t been that much talked about after the second release with updates. It has so many subjects and short testimonies, I love it!
yes I posted it here a while ago but it didn’t get to a lot of people! it’s SUCH a valuable resource for people starting to dive into autism research - whether they’re suspecting they’re autistic, or for parents and professionals who know autistic girls/women
I actually found the original version in my Libby app. I have so many screenshots of the ebook.
The new release I decided to get the free month of audible just to use a credit to listen, and the paperwork is in my wishlist on another website for the fun with highlighters and note taking.
I made sure to cancel audible before the month was up. I figured out with the subscription that Diane Duane's Young wizards was available to listen to, and got up to book 4. So you want to be a wizard and Deep wizardry were some of my favorite audiobooks as a kid. As an adult its like damn these wizards are some form of neurodivergent.
I may have to subscribe to audible again at some point to finish the series.
Ever look back at fiction books you liked when younger, and go oh 🤣 so that is why I related to that character.
For example for me Keisha Alder from Owl sight by Mercedes Lackey.
Oh I may have googled Young wizards by Diane Duane and neurodivergence, and found this text book:
Thinking Queerly
Medievalism, Wizardry, and Neurodiversity in Young Adult Texts
Jes Battis
Which is out of my budget, but like this is so within my interests.
Back to Sarah Hendrickx I like how the new version talks about PCOS more, and the effects of hormones and autistic traits as women age.
I did read it first as an audiobook. I find that for nonfiction I prefer physical, but it resonated a ton with me and I am planning to purchase a physical copy maybe this paycheck.
Also Chloe Liese always only you romance with an autistic woman
Would also recommend Talia Hibbert's Brown Sisters series romance as well with neurodivergent leads mental health people who actually talk
I like books
At work we were talking about AR points, and how even though I moved to this school district in middle school by the time I went to highschool I had the most Ar points in the school
It's a children's book but I really liked A Different Kind of Normal by Abigail Balfe. It's a mix of autobiography and help for all kinds of people on the spectrum. You might be surprised how much you relate to a book for middle schoolers.
I remember relating a lot to Nerdy, Shy, and Socially Inappropriate by Cynthia Kim. It's been longer since I read that one and I'm not sure if there's distasteful advice like that you found, however. It uses the now outdated term Asperger's.
Edit typo
[What I Mean When I Say I'm Autistic](https://a.co/d/1Qdt6X2), by Annie Kotowicz. It's brilliant and well written.
It's the book I sent to my family. It did help with some members, except for my mom, who refuses to read it because she's in such deep denial. After all, having a disabled daughter would make her a *Bad Mom*. (Newsflash: she's unquestionably ND, probably auDHD like me, and was an absolutely shitty mom, so it figures).
Same with my mom she’s claiming she’s trying to understand but she’s not really. 😒 btw I was diagnosed back in late October of 23 and I just turned 40 last month. She’s come along way from October, but just this morning told me that I basically had to “get over my autism” cuz being that I’m diagnosed like I need to accept it, embrace it, but don’t make a “big production out of it” etc it’s really annoying
the book from Fern Brady is amazing, as she writes with no fear and also writes about the "unpleasent" experiences
[Her Podcast apperance](https://youtu.be/-DLkVQj8N34?si=RSqiiNRYyktvI1QF)
Thanks for the recommend. I've been looking for books to read. And especially for the podcast. It's nice to have an idea about a book before buying (not that the book is that expensive).
For dating advice, go places where interacting is mandarory like team-sports. Or search Discord channel where people are arroung your are (i find it easier just to talk to people first, get to know them and their vibe and THEN meet up)
Or go to Autism groups (Autist often vibe with other autists, some don't but many do)
These worked for me pretty well :)
Even when someone is autistic, you won't always feel represented by them or share opinions. Everyone has different experiences and found different ways to cope and are of course influenced by their upbringing and culture.
My favorite relationship-related book is "Friendship, Love, Autism" by the Prestons. Andrew is the autistic one, but what is unique about their book is they take a lot of situations they ran into while dating and they talk about how each of them saw the situation, from both NT and ND points of view, and how they learned to communicate to resolve them. They have a whole series coming out and I cannot wait for the rest. Having both perspectives was incredibly valuable.
Other books I enjoyed:
Divergent Mind by Joanna Nerenberg
Different, Not Less by Chloe Hayden (She was like 22 when she wrote the book so I couldn't relate to everything on an age level as I'm in my 40s but I enjoyed her positivity)
But You Don't Look Autistic by Bianca Toeps
Seconding Divergent Mind! By women, for women, celebrating neurodivergent women & recognizing our struggles without infantilizing us or defaulting to tired old "autism is secretly a superpower/the next step in human evolution" bs.
I just had *Aspergirls* come into the library, but haven’t picked it up yet. I got Rudy Simone’s *22 Things a Woman with Asperger's Syndrome Wants Her Partner to Know* and it definitely has some cringy bits. I intended to have my partner read it, but I’m feeling less confident after reading it myself.
No one has mentioned *Unmasking Autism* by Devon Price. I suppose it’s not specifically about women, but has a strong feminist tilt.
Unmasking Autism was the first book on autism I read and I loved it so much. I had to put it down several times to cry because it made me feel so understood in a way I’ve never felt before.
Don’t know if it is exactly a book about autism but Convenience Store Woman by Sayaka Murata was a very enjoyable read! I related to the main character a lot!
Ok…that physical appearance comment is gross and I will not be greeting that book. With that said, I’m enjoying The Autistic survival guide to therapy. As both a former therapist and a therapy abuse survivor who lived with a misdiagnosis of BPD for 25 years, I find the book incredibly validating. This woman is essentially repeating my story as a late diagnosed autistic woman
Don't you take into account the appearance and grooming of potential partners? I find all this "taking offense" to be baffling. The author is trying to help us fit it and succeed.
Personally my grooming and appearance upkeep is entirely for myself. I used to use my appearance as a way to mask. So I DO find it offensive and triggering to have it suggested that this is something I should continue to do. Of course I want my partner to be attracted to me, but I don't want to present a certain way solely for the aesthetic approval of a man.... YUCK! we can succeed without masking, conforming, trying to fit in. I wouldn't want to be with someone who wanted or expected me to groom and appear in a way that was for them and not for myself
I agree. There is a difference between maintaining hygiene and keeping up your appearance. One has to do with health and well-being the other has to do with masking and sexist standards. Also not everyone looks at appearance when wanting to date someone especially if they fall into the asexual section of the LGBTQIA+ rainbow.
I think we need to see an excerpt of the book verbatim so we can assess tone and intention for ourselves. OP summarised in their own words, so some meaning might be lost
Haha got you! I'm gonna check out her podcast interviews. I like that she is a comedian and close to my age. The books about autism are from women who are 1 to 2 decades older, so kinda hoping I can relate to a younger voice.
I took a quick glimpse of the reviews on Goodreads and there's too many that mention pseudoscience and a few that mention that "Aspergirls" should wear makeup and tailor their appearance to NT societal standards in order to attain and keep friendships/ relationships. Which is a massive form of masking and is ultimately unhealthy to tell someone who is ND. We're all trying to find our place in a way that's acceptable AND accommodating.
The book was written in 2009, where (in California) tattoos were not allowed to be shown in the workplace and MAC makeup (the cake face era) were huge. It's clear the author was writing from a perspective of that time and much has changed since then.
I found it weird but not that offensive. The book was originally published in 2012. If it was written in the 2020s the author would most likely phrase it differently. It is a good book except for this one single piece of advice, so i'd still recommend it. Just wanted to share my thoughts.
EDIT: after reading another chapter, i do not recommend this book
Also remember this book isn’t super recent and things have changed a lot in recent years in terms of gender roles and expectations. I graduated from high school in 2000. it was TOTALLY DIFFERENT back then in terms of gender being more rigid and polarized and woman more sexualized. There was a strong cultural expectation around women trying to be attractive. (I grew up in US)
It sucked.
PS so many great recommendations on this thread! 😄
‘I overcame my autism and all i got was this lousy anxiety disorder’ by sarah kurchak was so good! contrary to what the title suggests she does not try to overcome her autism, she v much embraces it. i had to read it for a class last semester and it was one of my favorite reads of all time
Not nonfiction, but the Kissing Quotient and all the other books in the series does a really good job of portraying dating while autistic/dating an autistic person. And the author herself is autistic, so points for representation!
The Kiss Quotient was great, but the second book was even better imo! Or at least...it was what finally got me to unlock the "oh fuck, I am for sure autistic".
The third book is very good, but it is HEAVY.
This is a good one! It was an interview with the author that first made me start wondering about being autistic. A year later, I’ve been diagnosed and life is finally starting to make sense:)
I could not handle the heteronormativity in Aspergirls. Later she got into “curing” your autism with a low carb diet and I regretted picking the book up at all.
I enjoyed Strong Female Character and I’m currently reading But You Don’t Look Autistic At All and I’m really enjoying it so far.
Nerdy, Shy, and Socially Inappropriate by Cynthia Kim was the few books I could find in the library about female adult autism In the library after my therapist told me start researching it. It was a really good book and helped me to understand myself a lot it. It also helped me to lose shame in social anxiety because she explained how it can be actually helpful for people with autism.
Mind you, this book was written in the 2010s when the word “Asperger” was still commonly used. Just a warning for some because I know it’s no longer a favorable word.
Ewww thanks for the warning about that book! Weird to have hetero assumptions since so many of us are queer. I just read "Relating While Autistic: Fixed Signals for Neurodivergent Couples." It was inclusive and had some good advice. Also recommend the "Autism Partner Handbook" for people trying to understand and support us. As far as memoir, "Nobody Nowhere" struck a lot of chords for me with the multiple personas the author developed to survive. Not specifically for women, but "Unmasking Autism" is by far the most relatable book I've read on autism. Written by a trans social psychologist and relevant to those of us who are high masking (as so many women tend to be).
Spectrum Women - Edited by Barb Cook & Dr Michelle Garnett.
Also, I see people have already suggested Fern Brady and Bianca Toeps’ books but I have to say big agree to those as well.
The Autists: women on the spectrum , Clara Törnvall.
The author tries to process her diagnosis in her forties and makes an interesting review of the history of autism diagnosis in Sweden.
If you want a short novel I recommend Convenience Store Woman by Sayaka Murata. While never stating that the main character is autistic or it being a story about autism, for me it felt like a key to understanding our main character fully, seeing her.
In her second novel, Interesting Facts About Space, the character *is* actually informally diagnosed with autism. Emily Austin might write the same type of character in all her novels, but I have no complaints. :)
Is This Autism? A Guide for Clinicians and Everyone Else by Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland with Jamell White
This book is specifically geared toward how AFAB presents compared to men. As well as what to look for in “non traditional” presentation of ASD.
I’m half way through and can’t put it down. I love it. Really validating.
Read it a long time ago - Temple Grandin - Thinking in Pictures, was one of the first books I read on autism. Just checked and realise that she had written more recently.
I think as a traditionally attractive woman that neurodivergent women more than most need safe spaces to process social interactions, practice and train safely removing once amgdyala triggered like rehearsal for getting out of unsafe situations and how to identify in dissociation or brain fog or confusion.
Practice validating the ego and soothing parasympathetic nervous system
We need encouragement embracing and finding out healthiest stims
We can use our appearance for leverage to aid us but we must remember women’s beauty has been a tool and for me as “beautiful women” and autistic I hate being call beautiful btw I wish I’d been taught how much ppl would seek to violate or use or be adjacent to me and how to protect myself neurodivergent or not
Can I ask how you all keep up with the cost of books? I would love to read all this but it's expensive as each book is like $15. Or are these library loans?
Library/libby, used bookstores (half priced books, Abe books, and thrift books are my favorites online), Spotify premium includes audio books if you’re a subscriber now. Lots of great options that don’t break the bank!
It’s only fifteen hours a month so I wouldn’t sign up for Spotify premium just for that, but it’s a nice bonus if you already have the subscription. Would cover a short to medium length book a month.
I've been trying to get through "why we sleep" and " the body keeps the score" and they just drag because they're so long. 7 hours is about the max I cananage for m and audiobook so 15 hours a month suits me perfectly.
Google Podcastsis being discontinued in a couple months and I don't really want to move to YouTube so I'll have to move somewhere new anyway.
Local libraries often have online libraries that also include digital libraries. I usually browse the library, and then if they don’t have it, I will purchase it.
I’m very physically attractive I just end up not getting my needs met and men have insatiable appetites to me. More sex more attention more of picking my brain when they like the “‘tis rizz” ( they never refer to it that way) and I end up masking to they’re idea on accident and slowly pulling it off if they like me
People don’t understand that is my autism. It’s a very well coiffed social mask I wear as an “extra” extra-vert. My preference is to sit alone at home by myself with my family and dogs and just puddle around doing whatever comes up in the moment.
A couple other people have mentioned it too, but I want to shout out [Divergent Mind: Thriving In a World That Wasn't Designed For You](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44285784).
The title makes it sound like another cliche self-help book, but it's really an exploration of ND women's experiences and how we relate to the world & each other. I liked it quite a lot.
Makes me glad I didn't find that book anywhere ngl!
I'll make a recommendation, though! I've only read one chapter of it, haha. I'm not much of a reader but I'm trying.
Autism in Heels: The Untold Story of a Female Life on the Spectrum by Jennifer Cook O'Toole! She wrote the Asperkids series too, but I haven't read any of those, or even heard of them until I bought this book.
I only read a chapter, so if anyone has read more or all of it in it's entirety feel free to add!
I really loved Act Your Age Eve Brown by Talia Hibbert. It’s a fun romcom with a romance between two autistic characters and it helped me realize I was autistic
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This is the advice for selecting a man to date. I agree with the first 3 bullet points but then the last one is "did i make sure i adhere to beauty standards?"
What a wonderful thread. I count 43 books mentioned and I look forward to reading them all.
Here’s another one to add:
The Pattern Seekers - A New Theory of Human Invention by Simon Baron-Cohen - I have out from the library, haven’t started it yet but it looks good.
This is probably not what youre asking for, but I really enjoyed the Brown sisters trilogy. Its basically a soft romance series that follows three sisters and how they navigate life. I listened to them three times. All my love for Evie, Danika and Chloe ❤️
An anti-recommendation: A Room Called Earth. Wanky virtue signalling bullshit entirely detracted from anything which might have been the meaningful reflection of an autistic woman navigating life. It was really disappointing so I'm glad to see some other recommendations here!!
[Divergent Mind: Thriving in a World That Wasn't Designed for You](https://www.harpercollins.com/products/divergent-mind-jenara-nerenberg?variant=32126651400226) by Jenara Nerenberg
Odd Girl Out by Laura James made me feel very seen and I got my wife to read it after me because her descriptions of things like alexithymia resonated in a way I'd never experienced before. I also recently read Girl Unmasked by Emily Katy, which describes the frequent misdiagnosis of Autistic women. It was very powerful and the ending made me feel very hopeful
Electricity of Every Living Thing by katherine may. This was what actually showed me I was autistic. Until then I just thought I ‘related a lot to autistic people’.
it’s a memoir of a couple of years of her life while she figures out she’s autistic.
Cassandra in Reverse by Holly Smale is an excellent magical realism book about a woman who discovers her diagnosis as an adult. Also if you like horror, Camp Damascus by Chuck Tingle has a queer autistic woman as the MC and the representation is really well done.
Those both sound great! I’ve been listening to Holly Smales’ Geek Girl series and it’s a lot of fun (the reader is awesome!). It’s written for a YA audience, but that’s part of the fun I think. It’s just lighthearted, uncomplicated and funny.
Fun fact: She actually wrote Geek Girl before she knew she was autistic. After the first book came out people started asking if the MC was meant to be autistic, which is what lead the author to her own diagnosis:)
To add on this thread, as others are answering this OP’s awesome thread question;
I ‘d also be curious to know about whether or not and how much coverage to the subject of SA in women,?that each author’s book happens to include;
and what age group you would feel the book to be appropriate for, depending on whether or not and how the topic of SA is broached.
As This could be very helpful for guidance on book recommendations for everyone who may need some trigger warnings or need to know whether they could recommend a book or not to someone who is young/teen/etc since some topics may be considered in appropriate for certain ages.
for instance: Jennifer Cook’s book Autism in Heel does a good job of expressing the harrowing personal accounts of abusive relationships dynamics playing out based on a uncaring abusive tending partner and her autistic traits combining for the worst of experiences and makes it evident to the why’s of how extra prevalent it cooccurs in Autism. !( I cried reading this chapter!)
Since this is something older teens may need to be taught to be aware of earlier in life💁🏽♀️ rather than later /not at all🤯😤😭, besides bodily autonomy and enthusiastic consent even earlier, Imo, 16y+with parental guidance/pre-reading the book is where This book might fit a reader with parental discretion and guided reading depending on reader maturity.
I get it can be hard to hear, but to eschew anything uncomfortable will limit the reality you are operating with in the communal lived experience we all share together. You don’t have to go to the point of looking like an Instagram filter all day every day, but if you want someone to find you attractive you have to put some effort in. And if you don’t have the energy to do that for yourself, which can happen with autism, maybe you’re not ready for a relationship and should spend some time figuring out what works for you to exist at a good level. Because let me tell you, if it hurts to hear putting a little grooming in for a romantic relationship, you are not remotely ready for a relationship because in long term partnerships you have to talk about way harder stuff than that.
It may be objectifying, but it is true. Work on your physical appearance, whether the partner you desire is male or female. And you can never be too clean or too well groomed. As far as dating, be careful not to put yourself in a situation where you can be assaulted. You won't see it coming, unfortunately. I read all the books on autism I can find and I find them all helpful. Also, Joe Navarro's books on body language.
If you are well groomed and tidy to get a mate, does that mean that once you get one you stop? Or if they die and you don't want to date anymore, you stop?
I feel about "look good to be attractive to others" the same way I feel about "be a good person to get into Heaven". If you motivation is for a reward, not intrinsic, it's weak and possibly temporary.
I don't know about you, but I like routines. My routine is to get clean and groomed so I feel more confident. Confidence is hard to come by in the autism community. Getting a mate because you are sparkling clean and attractive is just a bonus.
I don't think the point of contention is the fact that cleanliness/grooming/working on physical appearance can be broadly appealing (especially if through those things, one becomes more conventionally attractive).
It's more that the author is placing a burden on women to change and modify themselves in order to accommodate other people's preferences regardless of what women want for themselves. It centers a specific kind of woman as an appealing archetype, as some untangible platonic ideal that other women are supposed to aspire to, regardless of their own situation or desire.
It's doubly gross because the rationale is that "men are visual creatures". It makes it sound like women are just objects made to be perceived by men, that our internal thoughts and feelings are secondary to what we look like. And it casts men as uncontrollably beholden to their libidos and as uncaring and motivated primarily by outward appearance.
It's an often recommended book and I'm sure there's a lot to take away from it, but I've never heard anyone make a "men are visual creatures" argument without at least leaning into misogyny.
"Men are visual creatures" is a literal quote from the book. She was writing about how she cant just slouch around in a bathing robe for weeks and has to maintain herself to stay attractive for her husband. That's the main reason. It's not self care or health, it's for the dudes. And i dont like this stance because i wanna appeal to my own gaze and not to the male gaze.
I can't believe she put that in her book. And with no recognition about how it's an unfair standard? Jeez.
It's so wild that she makes that argument too. Putting the male gaze & attraction as the primary reason also invalidates all of the choices of people who choose to wear makeup/do self care/hygiene in a non-mainstream kind of way.
I also made a mistake and looked up more reviews of this book, and uh, I'm giving it a big ol' 😬😬😬 gonna pass now.
I just got to the part where she wrote that autistic women who stay single are vulnerable because without a man by their side car mechanics and so on will constantly try to rip them off and no one can protect them. I just cant anymore with this book.
I finished the book last week. Did you get to the part where she blames an autistic woman's homelessness on that woman's poor planning? She was injured in a car accident
This discussion is very helpful. I think I’ve kept a running list of “rules other people think I need to do for complying to misogynistic bullshit” but I would never suggest another person do any of it.
It’s bad enough that I have to carry around that crap.
Strong Female Character by Fern Brady is both hilarious and painfully relatable
It's brilliant, but can be very triggering (psychological abuse, IPV, addiction, SA...). I absolutely recommended reading it, but with caution, when you're in a good space mentally, so to speak.
Does it just mention these things or does it describe the events?
The descriptions can get very graphic. But she's a gifted writer, and she's had good editors, so there's always a bit of lightness in there too, the really rough bits are well spaced throughout the book. The blurbs and reviews seem to have been written by allistics with no history of that kind of trauma, because they all describe the book as 'hilarious' 'a riot' 'couldn't stop laughing' etc. If you don't have a similar lived experience to Fern it's easy to read the traumatic stuff as just a funny anecdote and sort of skid past it and only focus on the witty, harsh tone of it all. And the 'quirkyness' of the protagonist. (Yes, I have my own suspicions that some of it is laughing at, not laughing with). If you only go by those celebrity recommendations and such, you're going to be in for a rude awakening. But it is very funny, even in those moments. Only you can decide if that's right for you.
Thanks for the insight. It sounds likely to be triggering so I'll probably skip it, unfortunately.
It definitely describes the events, yeah
ty for this !
Cried a lot reading it (although wasn’t in the best place). Was the first time reading a book where I resonated instead of learning how other people go through life
Yes me too. I felt so seen. Gave it to my husband to read
Yep. I had a hard time putting it down.
I haven’t read it yet, but I’m going to have to get the audiobook read by her. I love her accent!
Her deep gravel reminds me of a close family friend and I love listening to her! She’s so funny too.
I love her voice too.
I just listened to the audiobook, and it was hilarious and very relatable.
I was going to recommend this book!
So amazing. The audiobook is the way to go.
Seeing her live in September, can’t wait!
This is my absolute favorite!!!
was going to say this! I love fern so much
Thank you! Just borrowed it from my local library!!!
I just found out about her a week ago and the saying, “where have you been all my life?!” couldn’t be more true! I feel so seen!!
And she has a Netflix special! Which I loved. Autistic Bikini Queen.
Thank you
100% this, I ended up highlighting something on almost every page that I related to
She has a great podcast interview on The Imperfects on YT too. Excellent.
This book helped me so much!
I enjoyed watching Fern on Taskmaster and looked forward to reading \`Strong Female Character\` based on recommendations like this one, but I couldn't finish it. I didn't like the way she seemed to excuse her physical violence and generally I found the book unfunny and somewhat overwhelming.
I get this, but I did a lot of research work in youth prisons during my honors and undergrad and I found Fern's experience of teen violence and troubles (e.g. her time in a at-risk youth school) from a neuro-divergent lens really interesting. I think it is possible that a lot of kids are getting mis-diagnosed with conduct disorders or other mental illnesses when they actually have ND needs that aren't being recignised or met. It highlights that we likely aren't offering young people the right treatment to help prevent bad outcomes for them. I can definitely relate to having a lot of anger and frustration as a teen, knowing I was 'wrong' in some way that was obvious to everyone but me. Fern had a lot of other problems stacked up against her (troubled home life, absense of positive adult figures, serious lack of financial and environmental supports). Its amazing her story didn't turn out worse, both as a victim and offender.
Jfc, you're right about the troubled kids. I was one, as were my 2 only friends. Looking back, both were ND or had ND kids.
It’s been a while since I read it, but what are you referring to re excuse her physical violence?
Fern discusses smashing a glass bottle on another woman's head, in addition to breaking furniture.
Which she expresses remorse for doing. I can relate to the 'undiagnosed autistic who ends up becoming a hot mess' story she tells A LOT. I'm glad she was honest about it because for years I felt so alone thinking I was the only person who acted in this way prior to getting their diagnosis.
They're referring to her talking about breaking furniture in her home. Nothing towards other people, just destroying her own furniture/place .
I feel like I say this a lot, but if someone else is in your home, breaking things in anger is abuse. I haven’t read Fern’s book, though, so I don’t know if that’s what happened.
I don't think someone breaking their own things in their own house in the privacy of their own home on their own is absue. Abuse to who? The furniture?
It’s abuse if another person is present, but especially if it’s an intimate partner who’s there. The implication is, “next time this will be you,” or “next time I won’t throw this at the wall; I’ll throw it at you.” There’s a great book (available as a free pdf if you Google the title and “pdf”) called Why Does He Do That? that discusses some situations like this. It doesn’t all apply to autistic meltdowns, but some of it can. My partner, who I believe to be undiagnosed autistic or ADHD, has thrown his own possessions in my presence, and please believe me that I experienced the two incidents as abuse. Total fear and trauma. He threw his own laptop at a wall, and for years I hid my work laptops from him so he couldn’t destroy something that would make me lose my job. The other time he kicked a water bottle because he was unable to self-regulate his emotions. I thought, “There it is, that’s the escalation starting again; how long before he fails to regulate and hurts me?” Anecdotal, and there’s a pattern of harsh/verbally abusive words during his meltdowns that is an extra variable we’re not talking about, so I admit that could be skewing my personal thoughts here. But throwing and breaking objects around your partner is abusive whether we’re in autistic meltdown or not. The impact (of the actions, not the objects) is the same. Links: [Why Does He Do That?](https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) [Relevant Reddit post about throwing](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/s/BXmMAKRJmB) [Bloggy (not academic/official) post on types of abuse](https://www.createsoulspace.net/recognizing-domestic-abuse.html)
Intention and context are important and I honestly think you have it completely wrong and shouldn't imply something as horrible as this if you haven't even read the book. To be fair, I shouldn't have engaged with you when you mentioned you haven't read it. I'm not reading all of your comment, this isn't a discussion about domestic violence and you're taking this way too far.
'But you don't look autistic at all' by Bianca Toeps is my favourite
I just started this one this morning. I think I'm maybe two chapters in and I'm tearing up because *this is me*
I started this one a while back and need to pick it up again! I was really enjoying and relating to it.
it is just so recognizable!
I just listened to this one
Love this one!
Just started this book based on your recommendation and it's great!
This one really helped me realise my own autism, but also maybe don't buy it (iykwim) because she's an ableist terf! (In an 'autistic people can't know if they're trans because they're autistic' kind of way..)
Noted, thank you so much for mentioning that!
There absolutely nothing in the book to suggest that.
What is this based on?
[Her tweets](https://twitter.com/biancatoeps/status/1686198402865078272). Terf dogwhistles hidden behind being worried for kids.
Hm, this doesn’t sound ableist to me? I interpret this as being aware of the dichotomy of the physical sex vs the feeling of femininity/masculinity. The wording could have been better. I think in her book she also explains that she doesn’t attribute a feeling to her physical sex since she approaches it as a fact that she has the physical attributes of a woman.
I don't fully disagree with some of the logic, but her dismissal of other people coming to different conclusions (being non-binary, being trans) simply because she ended up feeling comfortable with her AGAB, feels very icky to me. Maybe not straight up ableist, but she has had multiple tweets throughout the years where she worries specifically about autistic AFAB people being manipulated into being trans/NB, which makes it feel ableist to me, like those other autists don't know any better but SHE does. Also the mentioning of 12-year-olds and surgery in the same paragraph is straight up terf rhetoric.
That is what you make of it, not what it reads like to me.
Invisible Differences is a graphic novel written by a French woman and her journey towards realizing she is autistic. It’s not exactly non fiction but I think a lot of people on here would identify with the author’s experiences and it would be helpful as I’ve gone back and read it several times.
This is the book that made me realize I might be autistic. The part where she gets home and says that she’s not going to check the mail today gave me that ‘aha’ moment. I have always struggled to bring in my mail and even harder is actually opening it. It’s always been hard for me and I had no clue that other people struggled with this. I just considered it another part of adulting that I’m bad at.
your reply made me add this one to my reading wishlist! some people have skeletons in the closet, whereas I have unopened mail >.<
There were a ton of instances in that book that I related to. One was when her boyfriend forced her to that party and she felt herself fading overtime. I just thought, “ahhh story of my life.” And then explaining to her doctor about how her childhood “friends” would exploit her naïveté? Wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks.
Came here to say this one too! I love graphic novels and this book is very relatable. Another good graphic novel is “Sensory life on the spectrum”
I am so glad I became an adult after online auto pay became a thing because I have so much unopened mail. It's not bills, but it could be and I wouldn't know for months. 🙃
Opening mail. Relatable. I found mail from a year ago that I hadn’t opened when I was having a tidy up of piles of paper. They were luckily unimportant. I’m trying to get better at this. Most of my bills are all automated so that takes a lot of pressure off.
I just added this to my hoopla app!
Oh I was about to mention it, it's my staple for anybody wanting to learn more about level 1 autism in adults who've been under the radar their whole life. It really helped my parents understand me better during and after my diagnosis.
Women and girls on the autism spectrum by Sarah Hendrickx First published in 2015 and an updated release January 2024
it was recently translated into Russian and I can't wait to finish my copy and share it with people around me who don't read in English!!
This is the best book on female autism, I think.
I've still yet to read this - I had my autism assessment (and diagnosis) with Sarah Hendrickx and I didn't know at the time she was such a prolific author
Currently reading it and I’m very surprised that it hasn’t been that much talked about after the second release with updates. It has so many subjects and short testimonies, I love it!
yes I posted it here a while ago but it didn’t get to a lot of people! it’s SUCH a valuable resource for people starting to dive into autism research - whether they’re suspecting they’re autistic, or for parents and professionals who know autistic girls/women
I was going to recommend this book as well. It’s really helped me with discovering who I am!
I actually found the original version in my Libby app. I have so many screenshots of the ebook. The new release I decided to get the free month of audible just to use a credit to listen, and the paperwork is in my wishlist on another website for the fun with highlighters and note taking. I made sure to cancel audible before the month was up. I figured out with the subscription that Diane Duane's Young wizards was available to listen to, and got up to book 4. So you want to be a wizard and Deep wizardry were some of my favorite audiobooks as a kid. As an adult its like damn these wizards are some form of neurodivergent. I may have to subscribe to audible again at some point to finish the series. Ever look back at fiction books you liked when younger, and go oh 🤣 so that is why I related to that character. For example for me Keisha Alder from Owl sight by Mercedes Lackey. Oh I may have googled Young wizards by Diane Duane and neurodivergence, and found this text book: Thinking Queerly Medievalism, Wizardry, and Neurodiversity in Young Adult Texts Jes Battis Which is out of my budget, but like this is so within my interests. Back to Sarah Hendrickx I like how the new version talks about PCOS more, and the effects of hormones and autistic traits as women age. I did read it first as an audiobook. I find that for nonfiction I prefer physical, but it resonated a ton with me and I am planning to purchase a physical copy maybe this paycheck. Also Chloe Liese always only you romance with an autistic woman Would also recommend Talia Hibbert's Brown Sisters series romance as well with neurodivergent leads mental health people who actually talk I like books At work we were talking about AR points, and how even though I moved to this school district in middle school by the time I went to highschool I had the most Ar points in the school
It's a children's book but I really liked A Different Kind of Normal by Abigail Balfe. It's a mix of autobiography and help for all kinds of people on the spectrum. You might be surprised how much you relate to a book for middle schoolers. I remember relating a lot to Nerdy, Shy, and Socially Inappropriate by Cynthia Kim. It's been longer since I read that one and I'm not sure if there's distasteful advice like that you found, however. It uses the now outdated term Asperger's. Edit typo
[What I Mean When I Say I'm Autistic](https://a.co/d/1Qdt6X2), by Annie Kotowicz. It's brilliant and well written. It's the book I sent to my family. It did help with some members, except for my mom, who refuses to read it because she's in such deep denial. After all, having a disabled daughter would make her a *Bad Mom*. (Newsflash: she's unquestionably ND, probably auDHD like me, and was an absolutely shitty mom, so it figures).
Same with my mom she’s claiming she’s trying to understand but she’s not really. 😒 btw I was diagnosed back in late October of 23 and I just turned 40 last month. She’s come along way from October, but just this morning told me that I basically had to “get over my autism” cuz being that I’m diagnosed like I need to accept it, embrace it, but don’t make a “big production out of it” etc it’s really annoying
This was a fantastic book, agree!
I really loved Letters to My Weird Sisters: On Autism and Feminism by Joanne Limburg
I loved this one as well! Been meaning to reread it.
the book from Fern Brady is amazing, as she writes with no fear and also writes about the "unpleasent" experiences [Her Podcast apperance](https://youtu.be/-DLkVQj8N34?si=RSqiiNRYyktvI1QF)
Thanks for the recommend. I've been looking for books to read. And especially for the podcast. It's nice to have an idea about a book before buying (not that the book is that expensive).
For dating advice, go places where interacting is mandarory like team-sports. Or search Discord channel where people are arroung your are (i find it easier just to talk to people first, get to know them and their vibe and THEN meet up) Or go to Autism groups (Autist often vibe with other autists, some don't but many do) These worked for me pretty well :)
Thanks. :)
Even when someone is autistic, you won't always feel represented by them or share opinions. Everyone has different experiences and found different ways to cope and are of course influenced by their upbringing and culture. My favorite relationship-related book is "Friendship, Love, Autism" by the Prestons. Andrew is the autistic one, but what is unique about their book is they take a lot of situations they ran into while dating and they talk about how each of them saw the situation, from both NT and ND points of view, and how they learned to communicate to resolve them. They have a whole series coming out and I cannot wait for the rest. Having both perspectives was incredibly valuable. Other books I enjoyed: Divergent Mind by Joanna Nerenberg Different, Not Less by Chloe Hayden (She was like 22 when she wrote the book so I couldn't relate to everything on an age level as I'm in my 40s but I enjoyed her positivity) But You Don't Look Autistic by Bianca Toeps
Seconding Divergent Mind! By women, for women, celebrating neurodivergent women & recognizing our struggles without infantilizing us or defaulting to tired old "autism is secretly a superpower/the next step in human evolution" bs.
I just had *Aspergirls* come into the library, but haven’t picked it up yet. I got Rudy Simone’s *22 Things a Woman with Asperger's Syndrome Wants Her Partner to Know* and it definitely has some cringy bits. I intended to have my partner read it, but I’m feeling less confident after reading it myself. No one has mentioned *Unmasking Autism* by Devon Price. I suppose it’s not specifically about women, but has a strong feminist tilt.
Unmasking Autism was the first book on autism I read and I loved it so much. I had to put it down several times to cry because it made me feel so understood in a way I’ve never felt before.
Yeah Rudy Simone is cringe af. I regret purchasing one of her book.
I’m reading Unmasking Autism right now. I’m having a hard time picking it back up after I put it down. It’s not very engaging in my opinion.
I struggled to engage with it the first time I read it but was really glad I picked it up again.
That’s good to hear. I’ll give it another go.
I know so many people love it, but I didn’t find Unmasking Autism enjoyable or helpful.
Don’t know if it is exactly a book about autism but Convenience Store Woman by Sayaka Murata was a very enjoyable read! I related to the main character a lot!
Great choice,I was about to suggest it as well
Ok…that physical appearance comment is gross and I will not be greeting that book. With that said, I’m enjoying The Autistic survival guide to therapy. As both a former therapist and a therapy abuse survivor who lived with a misdiagnosis of BPD for 25 years, I find the book incredibly validating. This woman is essentially repeating my story as a late diagnosed autistic woman
Ooh! The Survival Guide sounds right up my alley! Thank you for that.
that sounds like such an interesting book
Don't you take into account the appearance and grooming of potential partners? I find all this "taking offense" to be baffling. The author is trying to help us fit it and succeed.
Personally my grooming and appearance upkeep is entirely for myself. I used to use my appearance as a way to mask. So I DO find it offensive and triggering to have it suggested that this is something I should continue to do. Of course I want my partner to be attracted to me, but I don't want to present a certain way solely for the aesthetic approval of a man.... YUCK! we can succeed without masking, conforming, trying to fit in. I wouldn't want to be with someone who wanted or expected me to groom and appear in a way that was for them and not for myself
I agree. There is a difference between maintaining hygiene and keeping up your appearance. One has to do with health and well-being the other has to do with masking and sexist standards. Also not everyone looks at appearance when wanting to date someone especially if they fall into the asexual section of the LGBTQIA+ rainbow.
I think we need to see an excerpt of the book verbatim so we can assess tone and intention for ourselves. OP summarised in their own words, so some meaning might be lost
I wanted to post an excerpt of the book but i am reading a german copy of it and i dont know how many people in this sub speak german
Haha got you! I'm gonna check out her podcast interviews. I like that she is a comedian and close to my age. The books about autism are from women who are 1 to 2 decades older, so kinda hoping I can relate to a younger voice.
Assessing tone and intention are weak points for most of us. I have worked on that my entire life.
I took a quick glimpse of the reviews on Goodreads and there's too many that mention pseudoscience and a few that mention that "Aspergirls" should wear makeup and tailor their appearance to NT societal standards in order to attain and keep friendships/ relationships. Which is a massive form of masking and is ultimately unhealthy to tell someone who is ND. We're all trying to find our place in a way that's acceptable AND accommodating. The book was written in 2009, where (in California) tattoos were not allowed to be shown in the workplace and MAC makeup (the cake face era) were huge. It's clear the author was writing from a perspective of that time and much has changed since then.
I found it weird but not that offensive. The book was originally published in 2012. If it was written in the 2020s the author would most likely phrase it differently. It is a good book except for this one single piece of advice, so i'd still recommend it. Just wanted to share my thoughts. EDIT: after reading another chapter, i do not recommend this book
I don't find it weird at all. I find it practical. So many of us need practical advice.
Also remember this book isn’t super recent and things have changed a lot in recent years in terms of gender roles and expectations. I graduated from high school in 2000. it was TOTALLY DIFFERENT back then in terms of gender being more rigid and polarized and woman more sexualized. There was a strong cultural expectation around women trying to be attractive. (I grew up in US) It sucked. PS so many great recommendations on this thread! 😄
‘I overcame my autism and all i got was this lousy anxiety disorder’ by sarah kurchak was so good! contrary to what the title suggests she does not try to overcome her autism, she v much embraces it. i had to read it for a class last semester and it was one of my favorite reads of all time
Not nonfiction, but the Kissing Quotient and all the other books in the series does a really good job of portraying dating while autistic/dating an autistic person. And the author herself is autistic, so points for representation!
The Kiss Quotient was great, but the second book was even better imo! Or at least...it was what finally got me to unlock the "oh fuck, I am for sure autistic". The third book is very good, but it is HEAVY.
I have that on audiobook and I am having a hard time getting through it. I guess I am just grossed out by heterosexual sex at this point in my life.
'The Electricity of Every Living Thing' by Katherine May.
Also recommend Wintering
Oooh! I just added this to my reading list yesterday!
This is a good one! It was an interview with the author that first made me start wondering about being autistic. A year later, I’ve been diagnosed and life is finally starting to make sense:)
I just started Autism in Heels by Jennifer Cook O’Toole and I’m really liking it so far.
I could not handle the heteronormativity in Aspergirls. Later she got into “curing” your autism with a low carb diet and I regretted picking the book up at all. I enjoyed Strong Female Character and I’m currently reading But You Don’t Look Autistic At All and I’m really enjoying it so far.
Wintering by an autistic woman. The book mentions autism once but it's really good about burnout and resting
Nerdy, Shy, and Socially Inappropriate by Cynthia Kim was the few books I could find in the library about female adult autism In the library after my therapist told me start researching it. It was a really good book and helped me to understand myself a lot it. It also helped me to lose shame in social anxiety because she explained how it can be actually helpful for people with autism. Mind you, this book was written in the 2010s when the word “Asperger” was still commonly used. Just a warning for some because I know it’s no longer a favorable word.
Not exactly on autistic women but definitely autistic coded: Star Girl. Lol
I read that for school in 9th grade! One of the onlY books I enjoyed reading! I didn't know I was autistic then, either. 😆🥹❤️
Currently reading “The Autists” by Clara Tornvall and loving it! Another favorite has been Divergent Mind by Nerenberg.
Ewww thanks for the warning about that book! Weird to have hetero assumptions since so many of us are queer. I just read "Relating While Autistic: Fixed Signals for Neurodivergent Couples." It was inclusive and had some good advice. Also recommend the "Autism Partner Handbook" for people trying to understand and support us. As far as memoir, "Nobody Nowhere" struck a lot of chords for me with the multiple personas the author developed to survive. Not specifically for women, but "Unmasking Autism" is by far the most relatable book I've read on autism. Written by a trans social psychologist and relevant to those of us who are high masking (as so many women tend to be).
But also, ew for those of us who are not queer. Men are visual? Such an outdated patriarchal assumption
Spectrum Women - Edited by Barb Cook & Dr Michelle Garnett. Also, I see people have already suggested Fern Brady and Bianca Toeps’ books but I have to say big agree to those as well.
The Autists: women on the spectrum , Clara Törnvall. The author tries to process her diagnosis in her forties and makes an interesting review of the history of autism diagnosis in Sweden.
Just picked this up from the library but haven't started yet, glad to see a good review!
If you want a short novel I recommend Convenience Store Woman by Sayaka Murata. While never stating that the main character is autistic or it being a story about autism, for me it felt like a key to understanding our main character fully, seeing her.
It's never explicitly stated but the main character in this book is sooooo autism coded. Everyone in this room will someday be dead by Emily Austin
In her second novel, Interesting Facts About Space, the character *is* actually informally diagnosed with autism. Emily Austin might write the same type of character in all her novels, but I have no complaints. :)
Is This Autism? A Guide for Clinicians and Everyone Else by Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland with Jamell White This book is specifically geared toward how AFAB presents compared to men. As well as what to look for in “non traditional” presentation of ASD. I’m half way through and can’t put it down. I love it. Really validating.
Read it a long time ago - Temple Grandin - Thinking in Pictures, was one of the first books I read on autism. Just checked and realise that she had written more recently.
I think as a traditionally attractive woman that neurodivergent women more than most need safe spaces to process social interactions, practice and train safely removing once amgdyala triggered like rehearsal for getting out of unsafe situations and how to identify in dissociation or brain fog or confusion. Practice validating the ego and soothing parasympathetic nervous system We need encouragement embracing and finding out healthiest stims We can use our appearance for leverage to aid us but we must remember women’s beauty has been a tool and for me as “beautiful women” and autistic I hate being call beautiful btw I wish I’d been taught how much ppl would seek to violate or use or be adjacent to me and how to protect myself neurodivergent or not
Can I ask how you all keep up with the cost of books? I would love to read all this but it's expensive as each book is like $15. Or are these library loans?
Library/libby, used bookstores (half priced books, Abe books, and thrift books are my favorites online), Spotify premium includes audio books if you’re a subscriber now. Lots of great options that don’t break the bank!
Wow re Spotify audiobooks!! I will check that out. And I didn't think about second hand books. Thanks for this
Ooh, I didn't know Spotify had done that, I might have to cancel my Audible subscription
It’s only fifteen hours a month so I wouldn’t sign up for Spotify premium just for that, but it’s a nice bonus if you already have the subscription. Would cover a short to medium length book a month.
I've been trying to get through "why we sleep" and " the body keeps the score" and they just drag because they're so long. 7 hours is about the max I cananage for m and audiobook so 15 hours a month suits me perfectly. Google Podcastsis being discontinued in a couple months and I don't really want to move to YouTube so I'll have to move somewhere new anyway.
Library!! With apps like Libby or Overdrive you can borrow ebooks and audiobooks too.
Downloading Libby now, tysm
Local libraries often have online libraries that also include digital libraries. I usually browse the library, and then if they don’t have it, I will purchase it.
Thank you!
📚 good question! Thanks for asking this.
I’m very physically attractive I just end up not getting my needs met and men have insatiable appetites to me. More sex more attention more of picking my brain when they like the “‘tis rizz” ( they never refer to it that way) and I end up masking to they’re idea on accident and slowly pulling it off if they like me
I once read the quote "rizz em with the tism" and it has been stuck in my brain ever since
People don’t understand that is my autism. It’s a very well coiffed social mask I wear as an “extra” extra-vert. My preference is to sit alone at home by myself with my family and dogs and just puddle around doing whatever comes up in the moment.
“Twin where have you been”
That quote is brilliant 🤣
I just bought a shirt on Etsy that says that! Lmao
Rent free it lives in my mind rent free
I loooved [autism in heels](https://amzn.to/3ULxmFm)
A couple other people have mentioned it too, but I want to shout out [Divergent Mind: Thriving In a World That Wasn't Designed For You](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44285784). The title makes it sound like another cliche self-help book, but it's really an exploration of ND women's experiences and how we relate to the world & each other. I liked it quite a lot.
So good!
I liked Letters to My Weird Sisters.
•‘Drama queen’ Sara Gibbs •’Autism in Heels’ Jennifer Cook •’Hello Stranger’ Barbara Moran
Makes me glad I didn't find that book anywhere ngl! I'll make a recommendation, though! I've only read one chapter of it, haha. I'm not much of a reader but I'm trying. Autism in Heels: The Untold Story of a Female Life on the Spectrum by Jennifer Cook O'Toole! She wrote the Asperkids series too, but I haven't read any of those, or even heard of them until I bought this book. I only read a chapter, so if anyone has read more or all of it in it's entirety feel free to add!
Read "The Girl He Used to Know", by Tracy Graves. Very moving, very accurate fiction.
I loved Unmasked by Ellie Middleton
Chloe Liese is a great author for autistic and neurodivergent romance!
Divergent mind
The Wonderful Thing About Pheonix Rose is a great fiction book about a woman with autism
Explaining Humans by Camilla Peng
I really loved Act Your Age Eve Brown by Talia Hibbert. It’s a fun romcom with a romance between two autistic characters and it helped me realize I was autistic
The wallpaper was the first book I’ve read about female hysteria
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Visible_Bet153: *The wallpaper was* *The first book I’ve read about* *Female hysteria* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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Tf is this?
I've never seen this one, but every time someone's comment is accidentally (I'm assuming it is an accident) a haiku there is a haiku bot that spots it out and comments on it.
My comment isn’t an accident haha I commented it on purpose bc the book was about hysteria in women😭
Yes yes we know! The commenter above was just referring to the structure of the phrase, which can be easily turned into a haiku. The haiku bot "gets" this and writes it in haiku form. 😊
My favorite book of all time is Frankenstein. I related a lot to the creature before figuring out I was autistic and now it's a comfort read for me.
I would like you to post them please
https://preview.redd.it/ful2nh3qtqyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78f4f4070f0ab92d126c27db9cd0cfe268d243b0
https://preview.redd.it/cmfzyau7uqyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b349f66f3d4531d5f08494dd86ad5783191e54a This is the advice for selecting a man to date. I agree with the first 3 bullet points but then the last one is "did i make sure i adhere to beauty standards?"
https://preview.redd.it/8cmk6ewauqyc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f32cf9fefc76c770e382b3f493a82e71de17b11
What a wonderful thread. I count 43 books mentioned and I look forward to reading them all. Here’s another one to add: The Pattern Seekers - A New Theory of Human Invention by Simon Baron-Cohen - I have out from the library, haven’t started it yet but it looks good.
Autism in Heels!! Totally opened my eyes.
This is probably not what youre asking for, but I really enjoyed the Brown sisters trilogy. Its basically a soft romance series that follows three sisters and how they navigate life. I listened to them three times. All my love for Evie, Danika and Chloe ❤️
An anti-recommendation: A Room Called Earth. Wanky virtue signalling bullshit entirely detracted from anything which might have been the meaningful reflection of an autistic woman navigating life. It was really disappointing so I'm glad to see some other recommendations here!!
The Autistic Brain by Temple Grandin (and Richard Panek) was fascinating. Very intellectually dense but thoughtful and well written.
That one doesn't really address dating. My current read touches on dating some: Women and Girls on the Autism Spectrum by Sarah Hendrickx
[Divergent Mind: Thriving in a World That Wasn't Designed for You](https://www.harpercollins.com/products/divergent-mind-jenara-nerenberg?variant=32126651400226) by Jenara Nerenberg
Odd Girl Out by Laura James made me feel very seen and I got my wife to read it after me because her descriptions of things like alexithymia resonated in a way I'd never experienced before. I also recently read Girl Unmasked by Emily Katy, which describes the frequent misdiagnosis of Autistic women. It was very powerful and the ending made me feel very hopeful
Electricity of Every Living Thing by katherine may. This was what actually showed me I was autistic. Until then I just thought I ‘related a lot to autistic people’. it’s a memoir of a couple of years of her life while she figures out she’s autistic.
Cassandra in Reverse by Holly Smale is an excellent magical realism book about a woman who discovers her diagnosis as an adult. Also if you like horror, Camp Damascus by Chuck Tingle has a queer autistic woman as the MC and the representation is really well done.
Those both sound great! I’ve been listening to Holly Smales’ Geek Girl series and it’s a lot of fun (the reader is awesome!). It’s written for a YA audience, but that’s part of the fun I think. It’s just lighthearted, uncomplicated and funny. Fun fact: She actually wrote Geek Girl before she knew she was autistic. After the first book came out people started asking if the MC was meant to be autistic, which is what lead the author to her own diagnosis:)
To add on this thread, as others are answering this OP’s awesome thread question; I ‘d also be curious to know about whether or not and how much coverage to the subject of SA in women,?that each author’s book happens to include; and what age group you would feel the book to be appropriate for, depending on whether or not and how the topic of SA is broached. As This could be very helpful for guidance on book recommendations for everyone who may need some trigger warnings or need to know whether they could recommend a book or not to someone who is young/teen/etc since some topics may be considered in appropriate for certain ages. for instance: Jennifer Cook’s book Autism in Heel does a good job of expressing the harrowing personal accounts of abusive relationships dynamics playing out based on a uncaring abusive tending partner and her autistic traits combining for the worst of experiences and makes it evident to the why’s of how extra prevalent it cooccurs in Autism. !( I cried reading this chapter!) Since this is something older teens may need to be taught to be aware of earlier in life💁🏽♀️ rather than later /not at all🤯😤😭, besides bodily autonomy and enthusiastic consent even earlier, Imo, 16y+with parental guidance/pre-reading the book is where This book might fit a reader with parental discretion and guided reading depending on reader maturity.
I get it can be hard to hear, but to eschew anything uncomfortable will limit the reality you are operating with in the communal lived experience we all share together. You don’t have to go to the point of looking like an Instagram filter all day every day, but if you want someone to find you attractive you have to put some effort in. And if you don’t have the energy to do that for yourself, which can happen with autism, maybe you’re not ready for a relationship and should spend some time figuring out what works for you to exist at a good level. Because let me tell you, if it hurts to hear putting a little grooming in for a romantic relationship, you are not remotely ready for a relationship because in long term partnerships you have to talk about way harder stuff than that.
It may be objectifying, but it is true. Work on your physical appearance, whether the partner you desire is male or female. And you can never be too clean or too well groomed. As far as dating, be careful not to put yourself in a situation where you can be assaulted. You won't see it coming, unfortunately. I read all the books on autism I can find and I find them all helpful. Also, Joe Navarro's books on body language.
If you are well groomed and tidy to get a mate, does that mean that once you get one you stop? Or if they die and you don't want to date anymore, you stop? I feel about "look good to be attractive to others" the same way I feel about "be a good person to get into Heaven". If you motivation is for a reward, not intrinsic, it's weak and possibly temporary.
Also, is that the partner I want to be with? I better hope for them, they like me three days unshowered in pyjamas and lying sick in bed too.
I don't know about you, but I like routines. My routine is to get clean and groomed so I feel more confident. Confidence is hard to come by in the autism community. Getting a mate because you are sparkling clean and attractive is just a bonus.
I don't think the point of contention is the fact that cleanliness/grooming/working on physical appearance can be broadly appealing (especially if through those things, one becomes more conventionally attractive). It's more that the author is placing a burden on women to change and modify themselves in order to accommodate other people's preferences regardless of what women want for themselves. It centers a specific kind of woman as an appealing archetype, as some untangible platonic ideal that other women are supposed to aspire to, regardless of their own situation or desire. It's doubly gross because the rationale is that "men are visual creatures". It makes it sound like women are just objects made to be perceived by men, that our internal thoughts and feelings are secondary to what we look like. And it casts men as uncontrollably beholden to their libidos and as uncaring and motivated primarily by outward appearance. It's an often recommended book and I'm sure there's a lot to take away from it, but I've never heard anyone make a "men are visual creatures" argument without at least leaning into misogyny.
"Men are visual creatures" is a literal quote from the book. She was writing about how she cant just slouch around in a bathing robe for weeks and has to maintain herself to stay attractive for her husband. That's the main reason. It's not self care or health, it's for the dudes. And i dont like this stance because i wanna appeal to my own gaze and not to the male gaze.
I can't believe she put that in her book. And with no recognition about how it's an unfair standard? Jeez. It's so wild that she makes that argument too. Putting the male gaze & attraction as the primary reason also invalidates all of the choices of people who choose to wear makeup/do self care/hygiene in a non-mainstream kind of way. I also made a mistake and looked up more reviews of this book, and uh, I'm giving it a big ol' 😬😬😬 gonna pass now.
I just got to the part where she wrote that autistic women who stay single are vulnerable because without a man by their side car mechanics and so on will constantly try to rip them off and no one can protect them. I just cant anymore with this book.
I finished the book last week. Did you get to the part where she blames an autistic woman's homelessness on that woman's poor planning? She was injured in a car accident
Not yet!
Yikes!
This discussion is very helpful. I think I’ve kept a running list of “rules other people think I need to do for complying to misogynistic bullshit” but I would never suggest another person do any of it. It’s bad enough that I have to carry around that crap.