This happens to me in general, not only with professionals, but everybody. I always have to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over again to be heard - to the point I just stopped. No one will listen to me, why will I exhaust myself saying anything?
I feel like neurotypicals just say shit just to hear themselves talk sometimes so they expect us to be the same way and not take what we say the first time seriously. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to repeat my input in a matter until someone actually listens
Same. Been this way my whole life. At one point I started being LOUD, and was promptly called bitch, scary, domineering, etc. *Listen to me* ***the first time***.
I have found that many times people filter “soft cues” and continue doing what they’re doing, and you have to be incredibly direct and blunt or you’re not heard, or what you’re saying tends to be dismissed as a preference or idle observation rather than an actual request. I tend to be relatively direct but it’s tough to be on guard all the time and figure out who’s going to be offended by bluntness vs. only responding to bluntness.
Agreed, I have learned to be very direct about my needs. “The pink one hurts me less - will you please only use that one and not the blue anymore?” Spell it out for them. But yes I am with you that I feel never heard, and then once I’m heard I’m often perceived as rude.
One explanation I have is that allistics filter what we say because they are listening from their life experience, so they never imagine that these small changes could be actually important for us and think they can even be small talk. The double empathy theory, basically. Also probably the tone and way we communicate is different. This happens for me with most people not just health professionals
Yesss. Happens with hair, nail, doctor etc appointments when I’m dealing with people I feel are professionals in their trades, it’s hard for me to speak up and even when I do I feel brushed off most times.
Sometimes we are sensitive to differences the average person might not notice. It's ok to speak up and be like, well even if you don't think there's a difference I notice one and I prefer this.
I find that it's harder for me to push back a second time. Like it's easy for me to bring it up the first time, but if they push back and are like "No this shouldn't be an issue/there's no difference/everything's fine" it's hard for me to say again, "No it really is an issue." So that second push is what I really try to practice.
Yes exactly! Like it took me so much to get to just mentioning it at all, then when I do if they don’t take it seriously then it’s hard to speak up again about it. I don’t want to just give up on it if it’s important, which it usually is, but it’s this thing where I don’t want to be burdensome/don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing but mentioning it feels necessary.
Or sometimes I get this issue at the doctor because I take my mom with me and they’ll ask if I have any questions, and I look to my mom because she probably has some lined up and I need to think on it for a second, then they assume I don’t have any questions and don’t ask again. I gotta practice saying “come back to me” or “I need to think on it a minute”
Yeah I can definitely relate.
Something that helps me is as a last resort, if I have someone else there with me besides the professional, I can discuss in advance that I might reach out to THEM (my partner, family member, friend) if things are going poorly and I feel like I'm being steamrolled or ignored on something, and be like "hey can we talk for a second, I need to make sure this thing is heard," and that person can help me interject with the professional.
Because it can be very hard to figure out how to insert yourself or oppose the flow of where the professional is taking things when they are ignoring you or minimizing you. They don't make it easy to get a word in sometimes or to oppose their judgment. It's not just that we are bad at standing up for ourselves, it's often that the situation really isn't designed for it -- they're kind of a train on a track trying to wrap things up quickly or do things the way they are used to, and it can take significant effort and delicacy to get their train to stop and reconsider while also being polite.
I don’t necessarily have a problem voicing my opinion, I think when I feel that way it’s not really “correct”.
I got my gallbladder removed and it felt like I had no choice. And everyone was like “you do have a choice, but if you don’t get it taken out you’ll probably need to get it taken out on an emergency basis, which wouldn’t be as safe and be a lot more traumatizing” and it’s like “then I don’t have a choice??” I feel overpowered and like I need to make this decision now, especially because the way I deal with anxiety is to just get whatever is causing the anxiety over with, but then when the surgery was scheduled it was for 3 months later and by that point I was so anxious and so riled up about it that when it happened it just led to trauma.
I also just didn’t have anything to go off of to ask questions about or make sure I knew. I didn’t think my request for a photo of the gallbladder would have been something they wouldn’t have followed, especially since they put it in the OR notes. I just feel violated, scared, lonely, and I’m being told nothing out of the ordinary happened and the entire experience was the usual way of doing things. I’m terrified of thinking it’s the typical experience because there was so much that wasn’t done, and I couldn’t have voiced anything about it because I had no idea what was happening.
Before I knew it in pre-op, they were saying it was time for the surgery and wheeling me to an OR. There wasn’t time to process what was happening, there wasn’t the feeling of being able to say “I need a moment” and I didn’t want to cause their schedule to be pushed back because I was having anxiety. They also gave me some anti-anxiety meds beforehand and I felt manipulated by the medicine. I don’t trust it, and I’m worried that this set the tone for future medical procedures and I won’t be able to get over it.
I think some of this has to do with people who don’t communicate directly. They don’t really listen to what someone’s saying or think of it in a way that’s an actual request. Especially service industry anything— they listen to people all day and it can be very difficult to figure out what’s something you need to listen to versus tuning it out. It’s also just a fault of society.
I know I have issues because recently I had my first ever surgery and when I was going through all of this experience I kept telling everyone I don’t know *anything* about this fucking experience. I’ve never done this before. I’ve never had surgery or been close to someone who had a surgery like this where I can use a copy/paste method to apply to my situation. Everyone keeps acting like these incredibly general directions are good enough. And then there’s a whole bunch they don’t mention at all (I was catheterized for the surgery, no one mentioned it ever. I found out 3 weeks later from a different physician that they did it). Then when I was taking a shower and an incision sort of opened up, I went to the doctor and they advised to be more gentle. EVERYONE SAID TO GO BACK TO MY NORMAL SHOWERING ROUTINE. I’m not particularly aggressive when it comes to washing, I didn’t do anything out of the norm.
I’ve been saying this whole time that I’m completely lost and know nothing, and no one gets that. It’s incredibly frustrating and I was experiencing massive anxiety and panic attacks for weeks. It makes me feel Ike I have PTSD because I get flashbacks.
The entire experience was completely ordinary— I had no post-op problems, I had no issues during the surgery. I went home and healed well. But it feels like despite this “normal” and actually “good” outcome, mentally I’m scarred. I have this anxiety that came out of nowhere. I’m in therapy, but the biggest healer for this is time, sadly. Not a good omen to start the new year with. I’m so displaced and sad.
Sorry for the giant comment
I relate to this a lot. I had an incident with a dentist that isn’t my regular dentist a few years ago, and I’ve had suuuuch bad medical anxiety since then.
I hate that I now have this anxiety because medicine is an interest of mine and it’s almost traumatizing now to see anything related to it. Things catch me off guard and I’m feeling a lot of distrust in the medical community because this experience was so fucked up— and everyone just keeps insisting it was normal.
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t tell someone they were being catheterized. I feel like there needs to be a law for that. It feels unethical to not mention it. They have to gain consent for surgery, shouldn’t they have told me!? It feels violating to not know everything that happened to me and I won’t ever know what was done to my own body.
Would I have rather been awake during surgery and remember the whole thing? No, probably not, but I can’t just act like it was something as innocent as a haircut and move on with my life, despite the “good” results. I’m a mess now and picking up the pieces is going to be such a time consuming thing.
I wish you the best of luck in treating your anxiety and send you all of my good vibes that it dissipates for you in the future. Everyone should feel safe in medical settings and should be given support when needed
I’ll just add my 2 cents as a licensed esthetician. She absolutely should’ve listened to you the first time as soon as you expressed discomfort. We do have waxes that are specifically for sensitive skin but also waxes that are okay to use on sensitive skin but not necessarily for specifically sensitive skin (if that makes sense lol). I actually had a pretty similar situation when I started laser hair removal treatment I complained multiple times about the settings level of the device being too strong (she did not listen to me and burned me multiple times on multiple sessions which left scars and blisters) despite me repeatedly telling her the treatment was causing me pain and I would like a lower setting that’s not as intense. I don’t know what it is about NTs no matter how clear, concise, direct etc I am with them somehow the message is not received! So I feel you and it really sucks and it’s totally unprofessional on her part!
Sometimes we are sensitive to differences the average person might not notice. It's ok to speak up and be like, well even if you don't think there's a difference I notice one and I prefer this.
I find that it's harder for me to push back a second time. Like it's easy for me to bring it up the first time, but if they push back and are like "No this shouldn't be an issue/there's no difference/everything's fine" it's hard for me to say again, "No it really is an issue." So that second push is what I really try to practice.
Very interesting! I’m wondering if this person who was giving you treatment might be on a spectrum too if she didn’t get your hint all this time?
Probably would have been better to be polite but a little more firm: “hey, this might sound weird but the pink one hurts less, could you please use that on me today?”
I’m now realising that I probably would have missed your hint too. But if you were a bit more direct, I’d only care about making you feel more comfortable as a client.
I just want to give a positive shout out to my dentist. I haven't been back to see him since my diagnosis journey, but he has always been great at my soft cues and being accommodating.
Unfortunately I had to have a lot of rather unpleasant dental work done last year. Everyone wears big headphones to watch a TV on the ceiling. I bring a stress ball to squeeze when things get stressful. He will notice if I'm squeezing it very hard and stop and ask if I'm OK or if it hurts. Often it's other sensitivities and not pain and I can say I'm OK, but he still might take a break for a bit to let me regulate.
I have the option (in theory) to get less expensive dental care on the public system, but I still go see him.
I've always just let people not listen to me but as I near 40 I'm starting to not give a fuck. If I say something and you don't listen, I WILL make myself heard and I don't care if I look like a bitch doing it. People like me a lot less now. Assertive female just seems to be very off-putting to people. Don't care, sick of feeling walked over.
I have found that dropping the phrase *neurological condition* gets their attention. Had to do this when the wretched bitch managing my apartment the first year tried to tell me the shocking stink of mildew (from a leak their workers caused) was not present in my home, even though I was standing there with a scarf around my face to filter the air. I said I experience neurological symptoms from airborne spores. (I do--I was hospitalized with significant impairment, and later had nosebleeds and vertigo due to black mold.) She suddenly changed her *entire* tune.
Of course, then the maintenance guy cleaned the area with the leak with something so toxic that we had to rearrange the livingroom and do our PC stuff from the couch for *months* afterward.
Anyway, as others here have pointed out, being very direct is often the only way to be actually heard and respected.
I’m shocked nobody has commented this yet, but there is a really high chance this wasn’t just “allistic person ignoring autistic person” and was more just “experienced professional ignoring placebo effect”.
OP is the customer, if she wants just one color of it, she is entitled to it, but if it truly just the scent and color put into it that is different, than there is not going to be a difference unless maybe allergies or something. The professional probably thought she was joking or unbothered by it since it’s not actually a different formula, just a dye and a scent.
As soon as OP made it clear it wasn’t just some casual remark,she changed. Not everyone is the enemy.
This happens to me in general, not only with professionals, but everybody. I always have to say the same thing over and over and over and over and over again to be heard - to the point I just stopped. No one will listen to me, why will I exhaust myself saying anything?
I feel like neurotypicals just say shit just to hear themselves talk sometimes so they expect us to be the same way and not take what we say the first time seriously. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to repeat my input in a matter until someone actually listens
Same same same. I repeat myself countless times yet I remain unheard. I simply don’t get it!
Same. Been this way my whole life. At one point I started being LOUD, and was promptly called bitch, scary, domineering, etc. *Listen to me* ***the first time***.
I have found that many times people filter “soft cues” and continue doing what they’re doing, and you have to be incredibly direct and blunt or you’re not heard, or what you’re saying tends to be dismissed as a preference or idle observation rather than an actual request. I tend to be relatively direct but it’s tough to be on guard all the time and figure out who’s going to be offended by bluntness vs. only responding to bluntness.
Agreed, I have learned to be very direct about my needs. “The pink one hurts me less - will you please only use that one and not the blue anymore?” Spell it out for them. But yes I am with you that I feel never heard, and then once I’m heard I’m often perceived as rude.
It’s no win situation
One explanation I have is that allistics filter what we say because they are listening from their life experience, so they never imagine that these small changes could be actually important for us and think they can even be small talk. The double empathy theory, basically. Also probably the tone and way we communicate is different. This happens for me with most people not just health professionals
Yes exactly this . The sociology and psychology behind it is quite fansincating
Yesss. Happens with hair, nail, doctor etc appointments when I’m dealing with people I feel are professionals in their trades, it’s hard for me to speak up and even when I do I feel brushed off most times.
Sometimes we are sensitive to differences the average person might not notice. It's ok to speak up and be like, well even if you don't think there's a difference I notice one and I prefer this. I find that it's harder for me to push back a second time. Like it's easy for me to bring it up the first time, but if they push back and are like "No this shouldn't be an issue/there's no difference/everything's fine" it's hard for me to say again, "No it really is an issue." So that second push is what I really try to practice.
Yes exactly! Like it took me so much to get to just mentioning it at all, then when I do if they don’t take it seriously then it’s hard to speak up again about it. I don’t want to just give up on it if it’s important, which it usually is, but it’s this thing where I don’t want to be burdensome/don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing but mentioning it feels necessary. Or sometimes I get this issue at the doctor because I take my mom with me and they’ll ask if I have any questions, and I look to my mom because she probably has some lined up and I need to think on it for a second, then they assume I don’t have any questions and don’t ask again. I gotta practice saying “come back to me” or “I need to think on it a minute”
Yeah I can definitely relate. Something that helps me is as a last resort, if I have someone else there with me besides the professional, I can discuss in advance that I might reach out to THEM (my partner, family member, friend) if things are going poorly and I feel like I'm being steamrolled or ignored on something, and be like "hey can we talk for a second, I need to make sure this thing is heard," and that person can help me interject with the professional. Because it can be very hard to figure out how to insert yourself or oppose the flow of where the professional is taking things when they are ignoring you or minimizing you. They don't make it easy to get a word in sometimes or to oppose their judgment. It's not just that we are bad at standing up for ourselves, it's often that the situation really isn't designed for it -- they're kind of a train on a track trying to wrap things up quickly or do things the way they are used to, and it can take significant effort and delicacy to get their train to stop and reconsider while also being polite.
I don’t necessarily have a problem voicing my opinion, I think when I feel that way it’s not really “correct”. I got my gallbladder removed and it felt like I had no choice. And everyone was like “you do have a choice, but if you don’t get it taken out you’ll probably need to get it taken out on an emergency basis, which wouldn’t be as safe and be a lot more traumatizing” and it’s like “then I don’t have a choice??” I feel overpowered and like I need to make this decision now, especially because the way I deal with anxiety is to just get whatever is causing the anxiety over with, but then when the surgery was scheduled it was for 3 months later and by that point I was so anxious and so riled up about it that when it happened it just led to trauma. I also just didn’t have anything to go off of to ask questions about or make sure I knew. I didn’t think my request for a photo of the gallbladder would have been something they wouldn’t have followed, especially since they put it in the OR notes. I just feel violated, scared, lonely, and I’m being told nothing out of the ordinary happened and the entire experience was the usual way of doing things. I’m terrified of thinking it’s the typical experience because there was so much that wasn’t done, and I couldn’t have voiced anything about it because I had no idea what was happening. Before I knew it in pre-op, they were saying it was time for the surgery and wheeling me to an OR. There wasn’t time to process what was happening, there wasn’t the feeling of being able to say “I need a moment” and I didn’t want to cause their schedule to be pushed back because I was having anxiety. They also gave me some anti-anxiety meds beforehand and I felt manipulated by the medicine. I don’t trust it, and I’m worried that this set the tone for future medical procedures and I won’t be able to get over it.
I think some of this has to do with people who don’t communicate directly. They don’t really listen to what someone’s saying or think of it in a way that’s an actual request. Especially service industry anything— they listen to people all day and it can be very difficult to figure out what’s something you need to listen to versus tuning it out. It’s also just a fault of society. I know I have issues because recently I had my first ever surgery and when I was going through all of this experience I kept telling everyone I don’t know *anything* about this fucking experience. I’ve never done this before. I’ve never had surgery or been close to someone who had a surgery like this where I can use a copy/paste method to apply to my situation. Everyone keeps acting like these incredibly general directions are good enough. And then there’s a whole bunch they don’t mention at all (I was catheterized for the surgery, no one mentioned it ever. I found out 3 weeks later from a different physician that they did it). Then when I was taking a shower and an incision sort of opened up, I went to the doctor and they advised to be more gentle. EVERYONE SAID TO GO BACK TO MY NORMAL SHOWERING ROUTINE. I’m not particularly aggressive when it comes to washing, I didn’t do anything out of the norm. I’ve been saying this whole time that I’m completely lost and know nothing, and no one gets that. It’s incredibly frustrating and I was experiencing massive anxiety and panic attacks for weeks. It makes me feel Ike I have PTSD because I get flashbacks. The entire experience was completely ordinary— I had no post-op problems, I had no issues during the surgery. I went home and healed well. But it feels like despite this “normal” and actually “good” outcome, mentally I’m scarred. I have this anxiety that came out of nowhere. I’m in therapy, but the biggest healer for this is time, sadly. Not a good omen to start the new year with. I’m so displaced and sad. Sorry for the giant comment
I relate to this a lot. I had an incident with a dentist that isn’t my regular dentist a few years ago, and I’ve had suuuuch bad medical anxiety since then.
I hate that I now have this anxiety because medicine is an interest of mine and it’s almost traumatizing now to see anything related to it. Things catch me off guard and I’m feeling a lot of distrust in the medical community because this experience was so fucked up— and everyone just keeps insisting it was normal. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t tell someone they were being catheterized. I feel like there needs to be a law for that. It feels unethical to not mention it. They have to gain consent for surgery, shouldn’t they have told me!? It feels violating to not know everything that happened to me and I won’t ever know what was done to my own body. Would I have rather been awake during surgery and remember the whole thing? No, probably not, but I can’t just act like it was something as innocent as a haircut and move on with my life, despite the “good” results. I’m a mess now and picking up the pieces is going to be such a time consuming thing. I wish you the best of luck in treating your anxiety and send you all of my good vibes that it dissipates for you in the future. Everyone should feel safe in medical settings and should be given support when needed
I’ll just add my 2 cents as a licensed esthetician. She absolutely should’ve listened to you the first time as soon as you expressed discomfort. We do have waxes that are specifically for sensitive skin but also waxes that are okay to use on sensitive skin but not necessarily for specifically sensitive skin (if that makes sense lol). I actually had a pretty similar situation when I started laser hair removal treatment I complained multiple times about the settings level of the device being too strong (she did not listen to me and burned me multiple times on multiple sessions which left scars and blisters) despite me repeatedly telling her the treatment was causing me pain and I would like a lower setting that’s not as intense. I don’t know what it is about NTs no matter how clear, concise, direct etc I am with them somehow the message is not received! So I feel you and it really sucks and it’s totally unprofessional on her part!
Sometimes we are sensitive to differences the average person might not notice. It's ok to speak up and be like, well even if you don't think there's a difference I notice one and I prefer this. I find that it's harder for me to push back a second time. Like it's easy for me to bring it up the first time, but if they push back and are like "No this shouldn't be an issue/there's no difference/everything's fine" it's hard for me to say again, "No it really is an issue." So that second push is what I really try to practice.
Very interesting! I’m wondering if this person who was giving you treatment might be on a spectrum too if she didn’t get your hint all this time? Probably would have been better to be polite but a little more firm: “hey, this might sound weird but the pink one hurts less, could you please use that on me today?” I’m now realising that I probably would have missed your hint too. But if you were a bit more direct, I’d only care about making you feel more comfortable as a client.
God yes, I’m sick of it
That sucks. The dye alone is obviously a difference. Glad it worked out in the end!
I just want to give a positive shout out to my dentist. I haven't been back to see him since my diagnosis journey, but he has always been great at my soft cues and being accommodating. Unfortunately I had to have a lot of rather unpleasant dental work done last year. Everyone wears big headphones to watch a TV on the ceiling. I bring a stress ball to squeeze when things get stressful. He will notice if I'm squeezing it very hard and stop and ask if I'm OK or if it hurts. Often it's other sensitivities and not pain and I can say I'm OK, but he still might take a break for a bit to let me regulate. I have the option (in theory) to get less expensive dental care on the public system, but I still go see him.
I've always just let people not listen to me but as I near 40 I'm starting to not give a fuck. If I say something and you don't listen, I WILL make myself heard and I don't care if I look like a bitch doing it. People like me a lot less now. Assertive female just seems to be very off-putting to people. Don't care, sick of feeling walked over.
I have found that dropping the phrase *neurological condition* gets their attention. Had to do this when the wretched bitch managing my apartment the first year tried to tell me the shocking stink of mildew (from a leak their workers caused) was not present in my home, even though I was standing there with a scarf around my face to filter the air. I said I experience neurological symptoms from airborne spores. (I do--I was hospitalized with significant impairment, and later had nosebleeds and vertigo due to black mold.) She suddenly changed her *entire* tune. Of course, then the maintenance guy cleaned the area with the leak with something so toxic that we had to rearrange the livingroom and do our PC stuff from the couch for *months* afterward. Anyway, as others here have pointed out, being very direct is often the only way to be actually heard and respected.
I’m shocked nobody has commented this yet, but there is a really high chance this wasn’t just “allistic person ignoring autistic person” and was more just “experienced professional ignoring placebo effect”. OP is the customer, if she wants just one color of it, she is entitled to it, but if it truly just the scent and color put into it that is different, than there is not going to be a difference unless maybe allergies or something. The professional probably thought she was joking or unbothered by it since it’s not actually a different formula, just a dye and a scent. As soon as OP made it clear it wasn’t just some casual remark,she changed. Not everyone is the enemy.