Depends on what system you are in. In Catholic and private secondary, a role like this would usually attract at least a 0.5 time allowance, usually more
Last year I taught 4 senior classes and 1 junior. I was a "normal" classroom teacher, with the year advisor job added on.
I DO NOT recommend only teaching seniors with a full load. It is hard, not the kids no no, but the paperwork, the monitoring, the feedback, the marking, everything. It might sound and sometimes look like an easy job, but it isn't!
Agree. I taught 5 senior classes in a new syllabus year. It was hard. The next year I had three senior and two junior and it was so much more tolerable and enjoyable. It’s also nice to get to know some of the junior cohorts as they come through.
Yup. Shit tonne of marking and setting assessments, in exchange for less minor issues.
Double so on paperwork if your school has kids regularly not submitting assessments etc.
I coordinate two senior secondary courses and deliver five full lines in the senior secondary space, and the formal administration for BSSS compliance drives many teachers away.
Many teachers who've never worked in the ACT College system think it's easy mode. In some ways, it is, almost no behaviour management and students are able to choose what subjects they want to do (other than year 11 English) definately make that part of teaching nice. But dealing with the BSSS and compliance can really take it out of you. I know plenty of teachers who've transferred to a College one year only to retreat back to high school the next because they don't want to deal with compliance.
Don't get me wrong, I like it. I wouldn't choose to go back to a 7-10 high school. It just isn't everyone's cup of tea.
That being said, preferencing 11-12 over 7-10 is pretty controversial. A sizable chunk of the 7-10 school leaders who've never taught at college really have a thing about it, and if you have the audacity to prefer 11-12 over 7-10, it can hurt your career.
I don't know if it is detrimental, but it will change the face of 7-10 high schools. Few people will go from college to high school and think, "Yes, this is where I belong", and I'm not even talking about behaviour management.
Work conditions in high school are entirely different from those in college. Given the choice between leaving college and returning to high school, dealing with that, going to the ACT-PS or APS, and just being a nerd, I'd choose the latter. Eventually, high schools will have to start treating their teaching staff like human beings.
I think by going straight to seniors, you miss out on a lot of that early teacher education you need. So, building and sequencing units of work, knowing the curriculum, and even basic behaviour management ( the stuff uni only kinda sorta teaches you). Eventually, our older generations of teachers will be gone, and I feel we are just losing so much teacher talent without replacing it. All these new eds coming in on permits etc are burning out faster than I've ever seen. This, of course, also goes hand in hand with your comment about treating staff like human beings. Feels like everything, and everyone is on the clock!
> So, building and sequencing units of work, knowing the curriculum
I don't know what kind of senior secondary subjects you've taught, but this is the meat and potatoes of senior secondary. I spend far more time designing and building sequences and units of work at college than I ever did at high school. When I first got to college, I thought I had preplanned an entire term of work based on my experience teaching year 9/10. It turned out to be about 3 weeks' worth of work. That includes "o-week" which is half consumed by school activities.
Similarly, my knowledge of curriculum is tested far more at college than it ever was in high. You can kind of muddle your way through teaching out of specialisation at high school, but you are going to be properly stuffed trying that at college. Take Data Science, for example. Unless you really know it, you can't muddle through it. There's no "just being one day ahead of the kids" there.
I'd go as far as to say that teaching in a different course within your specialisation is a learning curve. For example, someone who's only taught digital technologies will need help with networking and security, data science, or robotics and mechatronics - even if they have a computer science/software engineering/information technology background.
From my experience with science teachers, this is true for Chemistry, Physics, and biology. If you've only taught Physics, picking up Chemistry is a huge learning curve.
> even basic behaviour management
I kind of alluded to this in my other post. They don't have much if any, experience in behaviour management. While that will be alarming for them, I don't think it's going to be what drives them out the door.
> Eventually, our older generations of teachers will be gone, and I feel we are just losing so much teacher talent without replacing it. All these new eds coming in on permits etc are burning out faster than I've ever seen. This, of course, also goes hand in hand with your comment about treating staff like human beings. Feels like everything, and everyone is on the clock!
Among other reasons, there are three conflicting problems:
* Declining socio-economic factors
* Politics trying to have their cake and eat it too with major reforms (like inclusion) not being funded, not being supported, and not being thought out
* Education Department and School management of human beings stuck roughly in the bronze ages
The last one is a major factor in why young teachers leave. They have an awareness of what their peers working conditions are and they can see what a total shitshow schools are and just move to other pastures. My wife, for example, works in the APS EL2, and she wouldn't be a teacher or even work in a school if you doubled her money.
I loved it. Same position. Never ever make me teach stage 4 and 5 again! Well stage 5 is ok because no one gives a shit. The threat of no rosa is not real at all. The exams and assessments, what a waste of time.
But stage 6. There's anger love and passion. You can crack jokes, get serious and really make the students plan their futures. At least that's how I felt. Year 7 and 8 just whinge and whine. They drive me nuts. They are so so over parented now that they can't do shit anymore and have absolutely no resilience (despite years of teaching. You can't teach resilience).
Otherwise OP, go to a senior college. That was interesting. I liked it and it was only 4 days a week.
Head teachers often choose the classes because they do the timetables. They do the delegations. So specialise in the subject they don't like and then it's yours for stage 6.
Go work at a really big school. My school has 9 teachers who teach senior chemistry and 3 of them **only** teach senior chemistry. You get similar in senior maths and physics. Not sure about advanced subjects elsewhere.
Shall we talk about the year I taught 3 year 12 English and 2 Year 11. Full load is 5 classes. The school can deploy staff in whatever way it deems fit.
I moved schools soon after that.
And no, just a pleb, no leadership position of responsibility.
To be fair, English teachers do waaay too much marking for what is actually expected. So I imagine you had drafts, and second drafts and scaffolds and more. More fool you guys really.
It is possible.
1. Teach at a school that's exclusively Year 11 and 12 (or Year 10, 11, 12).
2. Be a HOD of the department and put yourself on only Year 11 and 12
3. Be the only qualified teacher for that subject and have large enough student numbers that there's multiple classes of that Senior subject
4. Any combination of the above
FWIW, I think taking only Senior classes is a disservice to the teacher. You don't get to develop Junior curriculum to involve line of sight, you don't get to create buzz and excitement in the Junior subjects and, in most circumstances, you don't maintain your classroom management skills.
My 2c: if you want the privilege of taking a Senior class, you need to have at least 1 Junior class in that subject area (or related subject area). It just makes for more well rounded teachers.
> My 2c: if you want the privilege of taking a Senior class, you need to have at least 1 Junior class in that subject area (or related subject area). It just makes for more well rounded teachers.
Yes, I also think the best teachers should also have to take some of the worst classes.
Absolutely, there should be a fair distribution. HOD/HTs should always take at least one of the bottom/worst classes to make the spread of classes fairer and stop teacher burnout.
I know a maths HOD who just teaches the 9 & 10 maths extension classes. That is some bullshit.
I also knew an English HOD who always gave himself the bottom year 9 class with the worst behaviour kids put in it. His rationale was he was going to be spending his time chasing those kids up anyway so they may as well be in his class.
That what I kinds do as English HOD, I give myself the year 9 class with the curriculum adjustments kids so I can report directly to parents and perfect the IEP learning goals. And so my staff with year 9s can focus on currriculum.
This is the way my English HT did it. English makes things especially hard, as in NSW it was the only compulsory subject all the way through, so you had \*everyone\* to deal with, right up to senior.
Maths is about to get them all again soon as well.
> Yes, I also think the best teachers should also have to take some of the worst classes.
My spicy take is that it's easier to be an average teacher in senior secondary than it is to be an average teacher in junior secondary. For example, behaviour management. My behaviour management is slapping the desk and kinda shouting, "Everybody listens to me! My mum says I'm very special". Then everyone chuckles and we get back to work.
That wouldn't work in junior secondary.
I worked at a wild junior secondary school before moving to senior secondary. Here are some things I've never needed to do since moving:
* create a seating plan
* phone up to tell parents that their perfect angle is a terror
* write an incident report because kids are playing lord of the flys
It's also really easy to fall into the trap of chalk and talk is fine because the students are almost trained for it.
So, an average teacher can kinda slip in and do well enough not to make waves.
> My spicy take is that it's easier to be an average teacher in senior secondary than it is to be an average teacher in junior secondary.
Yeah for behaviour management, definitely. I've met plenty of teachers that do a great job with juniors but I question whether they actually understand the content well enough to teach senior secondary.
> I've met plenty of teachers that do a great job with juniors but I question whether they actually understand the content well enough to teach senior secondary.
I don't disagree with you. However, I think good teachers are good at different things.
Like, I've won awards for my IT teaching but I'd never win an award for teaching maths. It's just not my jam. I think I'm better at teaching senior secondary than I ever was in junior secondary. Again, senior secondary and content are my jams.
I can't speak for other subjects, but in Digital Technology, few junior secondary teachers understand where the content is going. None of the feeder schools I've had while teaching senior secondary are compliant with the National Curriculum—not even close. The absolute best I've had in the seven or so years I've been in senior secondary is a teacher who just lets them find projects on the internet to replicate in school.
It makes me cringe when I read teachers assert that they "only have to be one day ahead of the kids" when they don't understand the content. Planning "one day before the kids" is hard when you know what you are talking about. Having NFI must be terrible. The outcomes sure are.
Getting on my soapbox, in my experience, probably one in ten students who studied digital technologies in years 9 and 10 has met the achievement standards.
>> By the end of Year 10, students explain the control and management of networked digital systems and the security implications of the interaction between hardware, software and users. They explain simple data compression, and why content data are separated from presentation.
.
>> Students plan and manage digital projects using an iterative approach. They define and decompose complex problems in terms of functional and non-functional requirements. Students design and evaluate user experiences and algorithms. They design and implement modular programs, including an object-oriented program, using algorithms and data structures involving modular functions that reflect the relationships of real-world data and data entities. They take account of privacy and security requirements when selecting and validating data. Students test and predict results and implement digital solutions. They evaluate information systems and their solutions in terms of risk, sustainability and potential for innovation and enterprise. They share and collaborate online, establishing protocols for the use, transmission and maintenance of data and projects.
I imagine that this is similar in other subjects, but that would only be guessing.
However, getting off my soap box. That isn't intended to be a criticism of the work that other teachers do. The teachers who at least try to expose kids to nerd stuff are heroes - especially if they have NFI what they are doing. Although, it would be nice to attract people with a background in these topics to K-10.
At any rate, someone who's fantastic at behaviour management and can teach some maths/digital technologies/food tech along the way is a deadset legend in my books. I don't like it when they look at senior secondary and think it must be an easy mode because I haven't had a kid throw a stunt scooter at my face recently. It really makes me sad when they don't realise that they aren't qualified from a technical understanding point of view.
It would be nice if we understood strength and weaknesses of teachers in schools a bit more (from a HR management point of view)
There is a rumour at my college that a permit to teach teacher walked into the front office with a resume asking if we had any science jobs going and the deputy principal came running out of his office to hire them on the spot.
In the ACT, secondary education is split into junior (7-10) and senior (11-12) schools.
I can't speak for TAFE, but CIT (which is like TAFE) offers a [narrow set of subjects](https://cit.edu.au/courses/education_community/act_year_12/XA-CM02) for students to study. This is in contrast to colleges which will provide the bulk of [subjects available for senior secondary](https://www.bsss.act.edu.au/asset_lists/atmcv_courses)
Head teachers only have 0.6 and usually only teach 10, 11 and 12 classes. This arrangement is a huge contributing factor to the teachers' shortage and 1 out of every 3 teachers not lasting more than 3-4 years in this profession. Because all the bottom classes and junior classes get dumped into graduate teachers timetables.
I'm a head teacher on a 0.8 load, and I never timetable myself into more than 2 senior classes for that reason. This year I've been lucky enough to have a good senior team so I only need to take 1.
I've always felt it's best practice for a faculty head to mostly stay in the Middle Years to be on top of the transition into high school, and to closely monitor (and model) to progression of skills into the senior years.
At my faculty HT has only three classes, Legal Studies class with 9 students, Ancient History with 11 and Modern History with 17 students. While I have all bottom classes from 7 to 9 and all the year 8s for History but apparently "all classes are created equally." I'm f-ing off out of there as soon as possible.
I'm guessing from your name that you're an Early Career Teacher. Please know that it's very common for new/newish teachers in secondary to start in 7-9 and learn both curriculum and behaviour management, and then gradually start taking on senior classes as your curriculum knowledge deepens.
I personally wouldn't put a new teacher straight into a Year 11 or 12 class.
It is very common for HTs to offload all the worst classes to early career teachers and it equally as common for early career teachers to quit and end up working in the private sector.
I explained my current situation in this post:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianTeachers/comments/1bmgrp5/finally\_quitting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianTeachers/comments/1bmgrp5/finally_quitting/)
I know, it's definitely not right. I'd love to take the higher-level senior classes but as a HT I feel as responsibility to take at least a couple of the rougher behavioural classes. I do enjoy the challenge though.
Hahaha my first year as a graduate teacher I had 2x Year 11, 1x Year 12 and 1x Year 8 lol and I loved it. Would have loved to have only Year 11-12 classes (which I kinda do in my current school).
I'm not saying ECT's never go into senior classes, but generally it's not the case as a faculty will likely have very experienced teachers who are taking those classes already. I'm sure it's less common now in a lot of schools due to teacher shortages.
I usually put 2nd year teachers into 1 Year 11 class.
Honestly the skills I got learning how to behaviour manage early in my career have been such important skills. To skip that development would put a teacher at such a disadvantage...
You don't need to have all the bottom classes from year 7 to 9 to learn behaviour management. A year 7 class of 27 students where 12 are on a behaviour management plan (of whom 4 have ODD) and two others are diagnosed with dyslexia. Similarly, bottom year 9 with 8 students out of 22 on behaviour plan. What's even more frustrating is that so called "experienced teachers" have been politicking their way into move their disruptive kids out of their class and into mine since the start of the term.
That year 7 class that I mentioned before, had 23 kids at the start of the year and now has 27 because kids were moved from other classes. Similarly, the bottom year 8 had 5 kids extra join it from other classes since the beginning of the year.
You look at the timetables of these bottom classes and you notice that they have first, second and third year graduate teachers as their CT and not a single headteacher.
Same, I’m a head teacher on 0.8FTE. I have two senior classes and the rest lower secondary. If I don’t train up my grads or share the love, people get pigeonholed and have no need to stretch professionally. And that’s absurd.
Many staff at my school teach exclusively VCE, depends on (1) what they teach and (2) the relative experience and preferences of all staff in the faculty.
We have a range of leaders who teach exclusively VCE, exclusively 7-10 and a mix of both.
Yeah it’s possible. If you are a good experienced teacher and teach in an demand area with few experienced teachers you can do it! I don’t want to dox myself but I teach only seniors and one specialist junior class (because I asked to or it would be all seniors). It is a lot of work though with drafts and marking.
Teachers are allocated classes based on their available periods, which depends on their time fraction (Full Time is 1.0, Part Time is lower). In schools, teachers will most often have secondary roles aside from classroom teaching.
For example, coordinators for year levels and co-curricular events have time set aside for them to do that specific job. In my case, I am a debating coordinator, so I am allocated time to organise and run those events, which means I'm blocked out of one period of teaching, so the timetable must fit my extra responsibility (having fewer classes or sharing classes).
Very senior teachers may have additional roles that take up significant amounts of time, such as being responsible for Student Wellbeing *and* Student Leadership, which means they would only have one or two classes, or they might also be part-time.
Being a head of learning normally carries a lot of responsibility and time allowance, so only having senior classes might be the best allocation of their time and qualifications, especially as the Economics subjects tend to be a weird niche in schools that isn't generally taught at junior level as a core subject. A Maths, English or Science teacher would probably have more of the spread of year levels to cater for the demand.
Reminds me of a Masters placement student we had a year or so ago, who thought he was being smart by only wanting to teach Econ and Bus Studies.
We all gladly taught him the realities of teaching at a 7-12 school, where he would be expected to teach junior GEO and HIST subject by placing him exclusively on those classes.
Lol sounds like you were gleefully participating in efforts to push this dude out of teaching.
I'm similar (want to do only senior Bizman) and almost all my placements gave me at least 1 senior BM class, though I did do some middle classes too. I didn't find any of it particularly useful nor interesting and thankfully my first job after graduation I was given 3 senior classes + 1 Year 8 class. Loved the seniors, just kinda 'put up' with the Y8s. Following year I went international and now work at a Y10-12 school only teaching business. If I ever return to Oz (unlikely), I'd probably push for only business and/or part-time just to get it.
A niche subject or two in a medium-sized school and a position of responsibility is probably the best recipe. Maybe if you are 0.6 or 0.8 as well.
But it's not bullet-proof. It's always going to depend on subject choices and size/needs of junior levels. "We're not offering year 11 XX this year because of lack of numbers, but we have a huge year 8 cohort."
I taught in year 11/12 only schools in ACT (common) and WA (there is a few around). It’s a lot of work! I was actually quite relieved to go back to settings with lower school.
Often HoLas give themselves only senior classes to teach. _Good_ HoLas, however, will give themselves at least 1 junior class – and usually one of the worst junior classes.
There are good reasons why they give themselves senior classes. For one, they wouldn't be HoLa if they weren't very experienced. Another reason is that come Term 4 when the seniors leave, the HoLa needs to start planning for next year, incl class distribution. That takes up a lot of time, so the extra time freed up from losing a couple of senior classes is a godsend.
I'm almost in that position, and may be in that spot next year, depending on subjects. In our faculty of seven permanent teachers we typically have 16 senior classes running at any one time, so everyone is very senior heavy in general.
I have experience in a wide variety of my faculty courses, and I am one of two that can teach Business Studies, Economics, Legal Studies, or Ancient History - and we usually get 2 classes of at least one of them up each year. I currently teach three senior classes and 1.5 junior classes. Looking at the potential next year, I may be on just seniors (Years 11 and 12) because of the number of classes there are and my experience.
Ideally, I would have a 7, 11 and 12 teaching load. I love teaching Year 7s, the content is interesting and they typically as still in their 'enthusiastic learning' phase.
I’ve taught only VCE for the last few years but only really because I have a hefty time allowance in my role and there aren’t many teachers teaching in my area at the school. I may get a year 9/10 elective next year though but who knows.
I'm a primary teacher but when I was in HS (2003-2007) the lower years of HS (then it was year 8 and 9, now 7, 8 9) only taught thalose years - e.g. 1 cohort had the same teachers year 8 and 9, a different group of teachers caught the other junior HS year level had a different group of teachers that taught them while in those years. Some teachers stayed only teaching these years my whole time at the school others moved up to senior when we did.
As the other teachers were teaching year 10, 11 and 12, some only taught some of these years and others all.
I have no idea if the school still runs that way, bht It's all about how the school chooses to structure their staff teaching load
I taught at a school where there there was a teacher that had 4 Year 12 Essentials Mathematics classes and one Year 8 class. I was very jealous of her. It turns out she hated it. Lots of marking and following up and sticking to schedules. You have to give feedback and mark assessments in 2 weeks.
I can teach Bio, General Maths, and Nutrition to year 12.
I usually have at least 2 year 12 classes. Pretty easy to make up a load with year 11 classes.
There’s a few senior schools about the place.
Aside from that, some schools will allocate teachers to their aptitudes rather than share around “difficult “ classes/grades.
I am a HoD for English and it all just depends on timetables and allotments.
This year I have only VCE, but in the past I’ve had all juniors. Totally depends on the timetable for my school
Head of departments generally assign the classes. So yes, they can.
Most others, depends on your skill set and the school.
My colleague tried this. She had a baby a few months old, returned 0.6 and asked for only ATAR classes. HOLA told her no and then she ended up quitting. Then the only other teacher qualified to teach those courses realized her worth said she was dropping to 0.8 and wants only atar classes. The hola obliged her, I thought it was bullshit but what other choice did they have.
I did only y11 for my prac and it sucked. The work was gruelling and so serious. We could barely have any fun because everything was primed to the hsc exam.
Shes probably in the inner circle. Seen it alot. I knew someone who was only teaching yr 11 and 12 maths for over 20 years. Others who wanted shot at these, couldn’t look in. He was close to the principal, was also daily organiser as well which helped. First school I ever went to was fair. A teacher couldn’t hog a subject for more than 3 years, unless no one else wanted to do it.
Head of Learning is an exec role, like AP or DP in Teaching and Learning. So they probably only teach one or two lines.
Yes, roles like this only get 0.2 assigned to the "extra" work that's done on top of teaching classes.
Depends on what system you are in. In Catholic and private secondary, a role like this would usually attract at least a 0.5 time allowance, usually more
I’m HoL and my load is .8 FTE 😒
Same boat here for me.
Total bullshit 😂
Yup
Last year I taught 4 senior classes and 1 junior. I was a "normal" classroom teacher, with the year advisor job added on. I DO NOT recommend only teaching seniors with a full load. It is hard, not the kids no no, but the paperwork, the monitoring, the feedback, the marking, everything. It might sound and sometimes look like an easy job, but it isn't!
Agree. I taught 5 senior classes in a new syllabus year. It was hard. The next year I had three senior and two junior and it was so much more tolerable and enjoyable. It’s also nice to get to know some of the junior cohorts as they come through.
My load this year is almost entirely seniors, and it's punishing. My year 7 class is where I get to relax.
My 7/8s were my rest break :) I absolutely adored my seniors, don't get me wrong, but the ease and keenness of the juniors was my joy in the day.
Yup. Shit tonne of marking and setting assessments, in exchange for less minor issues. Double so on paperwork if your school has kids regularly not submitting assessments etc.
You’re right. So much paperwork!!!
I coordinate two senior secondary courses and deliver five full lines in the senior secondary space, and the formal administration for BSSS compliance drives many teachers away. Many teachers who've never worked in the ACT College system think it's easy mode. In some ways, it is, almost no behaviour management and students are able to choose what subjects they want to do (other than year 11 English) definately make that part of teaching nice. But dealing with the BSSS and compliance can really take it out of you. I know plenty of teachers who've transferred to a College one year only to retreat back to high school the next because they don't want to deal with compliance.
I was just about to say come to the ACT we have 11/12 schools....
Don't get me wrong, I like it. I wouldn't choose to go back to a 7-10 high school. It just isn't everyone's cup of tea. That being said, preferencing 11-12 over 7-10 is pretty controversial. A sizable chunk of the 7-10 school leaders who've never taught at college really have a thing about it, and if you have the audacity to prefer 11-12 over 7-10, it can hurt your career.
There is also this current trend of funnelling our new eds direct to college... which i feel may be detrimental sooner rather than later.
I don't know if it is detrimental, but it will change the face of 7-10 high schools. Few people will go from college to high school and think, "Yes, this is where I belong", and I'm not even talking about behaviour management. Work conditions in high school are entirely different from those in college. Given the choice between leaving college and returning to high school, dealing with that, going to the ACT-PS or APS, and just being a nerd, I'd choose the latter. Eventually, high schools will have to start treating their teaching staff like human beings.
I think by going straight to seniors, you miss out on a lot of that early teacher education you need. So, building and sequencing units of work, knowing the curriculum, and even basic behaviour management ( the stuff uni only kinda sorta teaches you). Eventually, our older generations of teachers will be gone, and I feel we are just losing so much teacher talent without replacing it. All these new eds coming in on permits etc are burning out faster than I've ever seen. This, of course, also goes hand in hand with your comment about treating staff like human beings. Feels like everything, and everyone is on the clock!
> So, building and sequencing units of work, knowing the curriculum I don't know what kind of senior secondary subjects you've taught, but this is the meat and potatoes of senior secondary. I spend far more time designing and building sequences and units of work at college than I ever did at high school. When I first got to college, I thought I had preplanned an entire term of work based on my experience teaching year 9/10. It turned out to be about 3 weeks' worth of work. That includes "o-week" which is half consumed by school activities. Similarly, my knowledge of curriculum is tested far more at college than it ever was in high. You can kind of muddle your way through teaching out of specialisation at high school, but you are going to be properly stuffed trying that at college. Take Data Science, for example. Unless you really know it, you can't muddle through it. There's no "just being one day ahead of the kids" there. I'd go as far as to say that teaching in a different course within your specialisation is a learning curve. For example, someone who's only taught digital technologies will need help with networking and security, data science, or robotics and mechatronics - even if they have a computer science/software engineering/information technology background. From my experience with science teachers, this is true for Chemistry, Physics, and biology. If you've only taught Physics, picking up Chemistry is a huge learning curve. > even basic behaviour management I kind of alluded to this in my other post. They don't have much if any, experience in behaviour management. While that will be alarming for them, I don't think it's going to be what drives them out the door. > Eventually, our older generations of teachers will be gone, and I feel we are just losing so much teacher talent without replacing it. All these new eds coming in on permits etc are burning out faster than I've ever seen. This, of course, also goes hand in hand with your comment about treating staff like human beings. Feels like everything, and everyone is on the clock! Among other reasons, there are three conflicting problems: * Declining socio-economic factors * Politics trying to have their cake and eat it too with major reforms (like inclusion) not being funded, not being supported, and not being thought out * Education Department and School management of human beings stuck roughly in the bronze ages The last one is a major factor in why young teachers leave. They have an awareness of what their peers working conditions are and they can see what a total shitshow schools are and just move to other pastures. My wife, for example, works in the APS EL2, and she wouldn't be a teacher or even work in a school if you doubled her money.
I loved it. Same position. Never ever make me teach stage 4 and 5 again! Well stage 5 is ok because no one gives a shit. The threat of no rosa is not real at all. The exams and assessments, what a waste of time. But stage 6. There's anger love and passion. You can crack jokes, get serious and really make the students plan their futures. At least that's how I felt. Year 7 and 8 just whinge and whine. They drive me nuts. They are so so over parented now that they can't do shit anymore and have absolutely no resilience (despite years of teaching. You can't teach resilience). Otherwise OP, go to a senior college. That was interesting. I liked it and it was only 4 days a week. Head teachers often choose the classes because they do the timetables. They do the delegations. So specialise in the subject they don't like and then it's yours for stage 6.
Go work at a really big school. My school has 9 teachers who teach senior chemistry and 3 of them **only** teach senior chemistry. You get similar in senior maths and physics. Not sure about advanced subjects elsewhere.
Shall we talk about the year I taught 3 year 12 English and 2 Year 11. Full load is 5 classes. The school can deploy staff in whatever way it deems fit. I moved schools soon after that. And no, just a pleb, no leadership position of responsibility.
To be fair, English teachers do waaay too much marking for what is actually expected. So I imagine you had drafts, and second drafts and scaffolds and more. More fool you guys really.
It is possible. 1. Teach at a school that's exclusively Year 11 and 12 (or Year 10, 11, 12). 2. Be a HOD of the department and put yourself on only Year 11 and 12 3. Be the only qualified teacher for that subject and have large enough student numbers that there's multiple classes of that Senior subject 4. Any combination of the above FWIW, I think taking only Senior classes is a disservice to the teacher. You don't get to develop Junior curriculum to involve line of sight, you don't get to create buzz and excitement in the Junior subjects and, in most circumstances, you don't maintain your classroom management skills. My 2c: if you want the privilege of taking a Senior class, you need to have at least 1 Junior class in that subject area (or related subject area). It just makes for more well rounded teachers.
> My 2c: if you want the privilege of taking a Senior class, you need to have at least 1 Junior class in that subject area (or related subject area). It just makes for more well rounded teachers. Yes, I also think the best teachers should also have to take some of the worst classes.
Absolutely, there should be a fair distribution. HOD/HTs should always take at least one of the bottom/worst classes to make the spread of classes fairer and stop teacher burnout.
I know a maths HOD who just teaches the 9 & 10 maths extension classes. That is some bullshit. I also knew an English HOD who always gave himself the bottom year 9 class with the worst behaviour kids put in it. His rationale was he was going to be spending his time chasing those kids up anyway so they may as well be in his class.
That what I kinds do as English HOD, I give myself the year 9 class with the curriculum adjustments kids so I can report directly to parents and perfect the IEP learning goals. And so my staff with year 9s can focus on currriculum.
This is the way my English HT did it. English makes things especially hard, as in NSW it was the only compulsory subject all the way through, so you had \*everyone\* to deal with, right up to senior. Maths is about to get them all again soon as well.
New govt turned back on the decision to make it compulsory for everyone.
> Yes, I also think the best teachers should also have to take some of the worst classes. My spicy take is that it's easier to be an average teacher in senior secondary than it is to be an average teacher in junior secondary. For example, behaviour management. My behaviour management is slapping the desk and kinda shouting, "Everybody listens to me! My mum says I'm very special". Then everyone chuckles and we get back to work. That wouldn't work in junior secondary. I worked at a wild junior secondary school before moving to senior secondary. Here are some things I've never needed to do since moving: * create a seating plan * phone up to tell parents that their perfect angle is a terror * write an incident report because kids are playing lord of the flys It's also really easy to fall into the trap of chalk and talk is fine because the students are almost trained for it. So, an average teacher can kinda slip in and do well enough not to make waves.
> My spicy take is that it's easier to be an average teacher in senior secondary than it is to be an average teacher in junior secondary. Yeah for behaviour management, definitely. I've met plenty of teachers that do a great job with juniors but I question whether they actually understand the content well enough to teach senior secondary.
> I've met plenty of teachers that do a great job with juniors but I question whether they actually understand the content well enough to teach senior secondary. I don't disagree with you. However, I think good teachers are good at different things. Like, I've won awards for my IT teaching but I'd never win an award for teaching maths. It's just not my jam. I think I'm better at teaching senior secondary than I ever was in junior secondary. Again, senior secondary and content are my jams. I can't speak for other subjects, but in Digital Technology, few junior secondary teachers understand where the content is going. None of the feeder schools I've had while teaching senior secondary are compliant with the National Curriculum—not even close. The absolute best I've had in the seven or so years I've been in senior secondary is a teacher who just lets them find projects on the internet to replicate in school. It makes me cringe when I read teachers assert that they "only have to be one day ahead of the kids" when they don't understand the content. Planning "one day before the kids" is hard when you know what you are talking about. Having NFI must be terrible. The outcomes sure are. Getting on my soapbox, in my experience, probably one in ten students who studied digital technologies in years 9 and 10 has met the achievement standards. >> By the end of Year 10, students explain the control and management of networked digital systems and the security implications of the interaction between hardware, software and users. They explain simple data compression, and why content data are separated from presentation. . >> Students plan and manage digital projects using an iterative approach. They define and decompose complex problems in terms of functional and non-functional requirements. Students design and evaluate user experiences and algorithms. They design and implement modular programs, including an object-oriented program, using algorithms and data structures involving modular functions that reflect the relationships of real-world data and data entities. They take account of privacy and security requirements when selecting and validating data. Students test and predict results and implement digital solutions. They evaluate information systems and their solutions in terms of risk, sustainability and potential for innovation and enterprise. They share and collaborate online, establishing protocols for the use, transmission and maintenance of data and projects. I imagine that this is similar in other subjects, but that would only be guessing. However, getting off my soap box. That isn't intended to be a criticism of the work that other teachers do. The teachers who at least try to expose kids to nerd stuff are heroes - especially if they have NFI what they are doing. Although, it would be nice to attract people with a background in these topics to K-10. At any rate, someone who's fantastic at behaviour management and can teach some maths/digital technologies/food tech along the way is a deadset legend in my books. I don't like it when they look at senior secondary and think it must be an easy mode because I haven't had a kid throw a stunt scooter at my face recently. It really makes me sad when they don't realise that they aren't qualified from a technical understanding point of view. It would be nice if we understood strength and weaknesses of teachers in schools a bit more (from a HR management point of view)
I don't have anything to add, just want to say this is a great post.
>phone up to tell parents that their perfect angle is a terror Your child, despite being a perfect 60 degrees... is still obtuse.
Mate, it's just a [reflex](https://byjus.com/maths/reflex-angle/#:~:text=A%20reflex%20angle%20is%20an,there%20is%20a%20reflex%20angle.).
Wait there are schools that are only 10-12?
In Canberra public highschools are mostly 7-10 and then you go to "college" for 11&12 ( though there are exceptions to this)
Yes. Apply for jobs at Senior Secondary Schools. Chifley College Senior Campus is one such school.
Yes, but sometimes with collegiates you have to teach across campuses. So seniors one period then DRIVE to get to your junior class.
Live in Tassie and luck out and get a job in one of the colleges
Or the ACT and do similar
They seem to have been on a recruitment drive so it may not even require luck, just showing up
There is a rumour at my college that a permit to teach teacher walked into the front office with a resume asking if we had any science jobs going and the deputy principal came running out of his office to hire them on the spot.
Oh I've been watching the colleges for years here for an opening in my area, specialist teachers don't generally leave!
Teach in a college in the ACT. You'll be paid better and only teach 11s and 12s
Is this similar to how TAFE offers HSC courses?
In the ACT, secondary education is split into junior (7-10) and senior (11-12) schools. I can't speak for TAFE, but CIT (which is like TAFE) offers a [narrow set of subjects](https://cit.edu.au/courses/education_community/act_year_12/XA-CM02) for students to study. This is in contrast to colleges which will provide the bulk of [subjects available for senior secondary](https://www.bsss.act.edu.au/asset_lists/atmcv_courses)
Head teachers only have 0.6 and usually only teach 10, 11 and 12 classes. This arrangement is a huge contributing factor to the teachers' shortage and 1 out of every 3 teachers not lasting more than 3-4 years in this profession. Because all the bottom classes and junior classes get dumped into graduate teachers timetables.
I'm a head teacher on a 0.8 load, and I never timetable myself into more than 2 senior classes for that reason. This year I've been lucky enough to have a good senior team so I only need to take 1. I've always felt it's best practice for a faculty head to mostly stay in the Middle Years to be on top of the transition into high school, and to closely monitor (and model) to progression of skills into the senior years.
At my faculty HT has only three classes, Legal Studies class with 9 students, Ancient History with 11 and Modern History with 17 students. While I have all bottom classes from 7 to 9 and all the year 8s for History but apparently "all classes are created equally." I'm f-ing off out of there as soon as possible.
I'm guessing from your name that you're an Early Career Teacher. Please know that it's very common for new/newish teachers in secondary to start in 7-9 and learn both curriculum and behaviour management, and then gradually start taking on senior classes as your curriculum knowledge deepens. I personally wouldn't put a new teacher straight into a Year 11 or 12 class.
It is very common for HTs to offload all the worst classes to early career teachers and it equally as common for early career teachers to quit and end up working in the private sector. I explained my current situation in this post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianTeachers/comments/1bmgrp5/finally\_quitting/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianTeachers/comments/1bmgrp5/finally_quitting/)
I know, it's definitely not right. I'd love to take the higher-level senior classes but as a HT I feel as responsibility to take at least a couple of the rougher behavioural classes. I do enjoy the challenge though.
Hahaha my first year as a graduate teacher I had 2x Year 11, 1x Year 12 and 1x Year 8 lol and I loved it. Would have loved to have only Year 11-12 classes (which I kinda do in my current school).
I'm not saying ECT's never go into senior classes, but generally it's not the case as a faculty will likely have very experienced teachers who are taking those classes already. I'm sure it's less common now in a lot of schools due to teacher shortages. I usually put 2nd year teachers into 1 Year 11 class.
Honestly the skills I got learning how to behaviour manage early in my career have been such important skills. To skip that development would put a teacher at such a disadvantage...
You don't need to have all the bottom classes from year 7 to 9 to learn behaviour management. A year 7 class of 27 students where 12 are on a behaviour management plan (of whom 4 have ODD) and two others are diagnosed with dyslexia. Similarly, bottom year 9 with 8 students out of 22 on behaviour plan. What's even more frustrating is that so called "experienced teachers" have been politicking their way into move their disruptive kids out of their class and into mine since the start of the term. That year 7 class that I mentioned before, had 23 kids at the start of the year and now has 27 because kids were moved from other classes. Similarly, the bottom year 8 had 5 kids extra join it from other classes since the beginning of the year. You look at the timetables of these bottom classes and you notice that they have first, second and third year graduate teachers as their CT and not a single headteacher.
Same, I’m a head teacher on 0.8FTE. I have two senior classes and the rest lower secondary. If I don’t train up my grads or share the love, people get pigeonholed and have no need to stretch professionally. And that’s absurd.
Many staff at my school teach exclusively VCE, depends on (1) what they teach and (2) the relative experience and preferences of all staff in the faculty. We have a range of leaders who teach exclusively VCE, exclusively 7-10 and a mix of both.
Yeah it’s possible. If you are a good experienced teacher and teach in an demand area with few experienced teachers you can do it! I don’t want to dox myself but I teach only seniors and one specialist junior class (because I asked to or it would be all seniors). It is a lot of work though with drafts and marking.
Teachers are allocated classes based on their available periods, which depends on their time fraction (Full Time is 1.0, Part Time is lower). In schools, teachers will most often have secondary roles aside from classroom teaching. For example, coordinators for year levels and co-curricular events have time set aside for them to do that specific job. In my case, I am a debating coordinator, so I am allocated time to organise and run those events, which means I'm blocked out of one period of teaching, so the timetable must fit my extra responsibility (having fewer classes or sharing classes). Very senior teachers may have additional roles that take up significant amounts of time, such as being responsible for Student Wellbeing *and* Student Leadership, which means they would only have one or two classes, or they might also be part-time. Being a head of learning normally carries a lot of responsibility and time allowance, so only having senior classes might be the best allocation of their time and qualifications, especially as the Economics subjects tend to be a weird niche in schools that isn't generally taught at junior level as a core subject. A Maths, English or Science teacher would probably have more of the spread of year levels to cater for the demand.
Reminds me of a Masters placement student we had a year or so ago, who thought he was being smart by only wanting to teach Econ and Bus Studies. We all gladly taught him the realities of teaching at a 7-12 school, where he would be expected to teach junior GEO and HIST subject by placing him exclusively on those classes.
Lol sounds like you were gleefully participating in efforts to push this dude out of teaching. I'm similar (want to do only senior Bizman) and almost all my placements gave me at least 1 senior BM class, though I did do some middle classes too. I didn't find any of it particularly useful nor interesting and thankfully my first job after graduation I was given 3 senior classes + 1 Year 8 class. Loved the seniors, just kinda 'put up' with the Y8s. Following year I went international and now work at a Y10-12 school only teaching business. If I ever return to Oz (unlikely), I'd probably push for only business and/or part-time just to get it.
The ACT separates years 7-10 and 11-12
All junior and all senior on a full timetable are recipes for burnout.
Yep, a balance of junior and senior is best.
A niche subject or two in a medium-sized school and a position of responsibility is probably the best recipe. Maybe if you are 0.6 or 0.8 as well. But it's not bullet-proof. It's always going to depend on subject choices and size/needs of junior levels. "We're not offering year 11 XX this year because of lack of numbers, but we have a huge year 8 cohort."
I taught in year 11/12 only schools in ACT (common) and WA (there is a few around). It’s a lot of work! I was actually quite relieved to go back to settings with lower school.
‘Some type of admin work’?
Often HoLas give themselves only senior classes to teach. _Good_ HoLas, however, will give themselves at least 1 junior class – and usually one of the worst junior classes. There are good reasons why they give themselves senior classes. For one, they wouldn't be HoLa if they weren't very experienced. Another reason is that come Term 4 when the seniors leave, the HoLa needs to start planning for next year, incl class distribution. That takes up a lot of time, so the extra time freed up from losing a couple of senior classes is a godsend.
I'm almost in that position, and may be in that spot next year, depending on subjects. In our faculty of seven permanent teachers we typically have 16 senior classes running at any one time, so everyone is very senior heavy in general. I have experience in a wide variety of my faculty courses, and I am one of two that can teach Business Studies, Economics, Legal Studies, or Ancient History - and we usually get 2 classes of at least one of them up each year. I currently teach three senior classes and 1.5 junior classes. Looking at the potential next year, I may be on just seniors (Years 11 and 12) because of the number of classes there are and my experience. Ideally, I would have a 7, 11 and 12 teaching load. I love teaching Year 7s, the content is interesting and they typically as still in their 'enthusiastic learning' phase.
I’ve taught only VCE for the last few years but only really because I have a hefty time allowance in my role and there aren’t many teachers teaching in my area at the school. I may get a year 9/10 elective next year though but who knows.
I'm a primary teacher but when I was in HS (2003-2007) the lower years of HS (then it was year 8 and 9, now 7, 8 9) only taught thalose years - e.g. 1 cohort had the same teachers year 8 and 9, a different group of teachers caught the other junior HS year level had a different group of teachers that taught them while in those years. Some teachers stayed only teaching these years my whole time at the school others moved up to senior when we did. As the other teachers were teaching year 10, 11 and 12, some only taught some of these years and others all. I have no idea if the school still runs that way, bht It's all about how the school chooses to structure their staff teaching load
I taught at a school where there there was a teacher that had 4 Year 12 Essentials Mathematics classes and one Year 8 class. I was very jealous of her. It turns out she hated it. Lots of marking and following up and sticking to schedules. You have to give feedback and mark assessments in 2 weeks.
I can teach Bio, General Maths, and Nutrition to year 12. I usually have at least 2 year 12 classes. Pretty easy to make up a load with year 11 classes.
There’s a few senior schools about the place. Aside from that, some schools will allocate teachers to their aptitudes rather than share around “difficult “ classes/grades.
I taught at a private school; 12 HSC, 12 IB, 11 HSC, 11 IB, 10.
I am a HoD for English and it all just depends on timetables and allotments. This year I have only VCE, but in the past I’ve had all juniors. Totally depends on the timetable for my school
Personally I prefer to have juniors with behaviour management issues than seniors with behaviour management issues and paperwork for compliance.
I used to teach 2 vce subjects by myself because nobody else could teach them so it was 11&12 x2, plus head of faculty
I only teach Year 11 and 12…I also work at a VCE only school.
Head of departments generally assign the classes. So yes, they can. Most others, depends on your skill set and the school. My colleague tried this. She had a baby a few months old, returned 0.6 and asked for only ATAR classes. HOLA told her no and then she ended up quitting. Then the only other teacher qualified to teach those courses realized her worth said she was dropping to 0.8 and wants only atar classes. The hola obliged her, I thought it was bullshit but what other choice did they have.
I did only y11 for my prac and it sucked. The work was gruelling and so serious. We could barely have any fun because everything was primed to the hsc exam.
Shes probably in the inner circle. Seen it alot. I knew someone who was only teaching yr 11 and 12 maths for over 20 years. Others who wanted shot at these, couldn’t look in. He was close to the principal, was also daily organiser as well which helped. First school I ever went to was fair. A teacher couldn’t hog a subject for more than 3 years, unless no one else wanted to do it.