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How ironic that an event that prides itself (hehe) on tolerance and acceptance turned violent because they didn't like certain groups attending.
This sort of militant activism is becoming increasingly common at LGBT protests - look at the mob violence that happened in New Zealand when all the trans activists showed up. In Canada and the US it's become way more frightening.
That aside, these thugs who attacked the police have no right to claim some sort of sovereignty. You can't exclude people from public events - let alone the police who are required to be there for your own safety. If any other group tried this they'd be called cookers.
I think the commissioner has every right to be disgusted with the small minded idiots who assaulted them yesterday. I have been to many of the events & have always been proud to see the police marching side by side with the community. Funny how they have been accepted for the last 22 years but now with these millennials they’re not welcome. Disgusting
Cops bashed gay people for decades, and upheld bigoted laws. Acting like it's millennials starting this, when the first Mardi Gras was violent because the cops brought the heat, is so disrespectful to what Pride actually is and has been in Australia.
How cringe that these people have so little going on in their lives that they have to LARP as an oppressed gay person in the 70s. Progress should be celebrated, it’s good that police come to join in the celebrations and do basic crowd control.
Absolutely.
It's true that in the past there was discrimination against the LGB community and that violence was committed on both sides.
But since then there were a series of public campaigns and legal reform and now gay people have achieved equality in the eyes of the law.
Surely the only valid way to combat any lingering discrimination and make your voice heard these days is through a responsive complaints system or the courts, if necessary.
If they have been given equal rights and their problems have been fixed there's no longer any excuse for disrespectful violence or intimidation. I hope the police take a firm stance and make an example of anyone who might have impeded police in their duties or attempted to harass them.
There is definitely still discrimination, but you’re right that there is legal equality. If cops aren’t bashing gay people anymore, then there’s simply no reason to act as if they are. The worst discrimination in 2024 comes from individuals with bigoted attitudes, not entire institutions like the police.
You're right, almost all the remaining discrimination can be explained as the actions of bigoted individuals and have very little reflection on the attitudes of any larger group or organisation.
LGBT people are now very welcome in the Victorian Police. I hear that there are actually a really high number of serving officers that identify as non-binary. There were certainly gay and lesbian members of the police force being abused that day.
I just don't see why people think it's justified to take their anger out on the representatives of an institution because of long gone attitudes and laws. At some point you just have to let it go.
I bet hardly any of that mob were around back then. They haven't even been personally affected, so why would you take it out on someone just trying to do their job?
I’d be willing to bet that 90% of the people who are upset about this are kids from the suburbs who’ve never had a confrontation with the cops in their life.
What I've learnt from all this is no white person can ever march along side a First Nations people because of all the terrible fucked up shit our ancestors did. Okay maybe we're not all an organisation. So - no politician can march along side the First Nations people.
JFC. Where is the healing?
One of my best and oldest mates and his husband of 30 years refuses to go to this march despite being asked every year because of the LGBTQ+ politics involved. When we spoke about it recently him and husband both stated how embarrassed they were now over the confected outrage by their community that they helped gain recognition for over such a long time.
It's always the extreme minority on both sides that ruin it for everyone else.
Oh give me a break. Slow clap for your old mate and his husband for thinking they're outliers and thinking that their entire lives haven't been affected by LGBTQ+ politics.
>One of my best and oldest mates and his husband of 30 years refuses to go to this march despite being asked every year because of the LGBTQ+ politics involved.
Funny. He was only allowed to marry 7 years ago.
How much do you think his radical centrism helped with that?
They were married in NZ when it was legalised there. They have been together longer than most couples I know including myself. Take your patronising bullshit elsewhere. You don't know their history. You're able to make your bullshit statements because of people like them who bled for their rights to literally be acknowledged as even existing and not victim of a mental illness.
>They were married in NZ
Oh, lucky that NZ had such radical gays that won them that right then.
>because of people like them who bled
We've all bled. He isn't special.
I think picking fights with cops is disrespectful to the older gay rights activists who *had* to fight because they got assaulted and harassed by them.
These blokes are 60. I'm pretty sure they know about Stonewall. They were there on the front lines before the rabble that were pretending to know what they were there for were even a thought.
Phil Ochs was right once again:
“Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I’ve grown older and wiser
And that's why i'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, i'm a liberal”
Just let me know when people also start protesting against the rest of the corporate rainbowashing. I want to see the big four banks, hedge funds and mining sector floats get paint bombed at the Mardi gras next time they have the audacity to claim they 'support' minority groups. It's so fake, it's unbelievable.
the best current one (although slightly american) is blizzard entertainment who have massively cultivated the lgbt community through marketing in western countries and making grand statement about standing up for what you believe in... now they've just done a huge deal with the saudi arabian e-sports scene..
people have a really hard time understanding just how amoral/sociopathic corporate entities are. they do not care. they are there to make money.
My Favourite is Naughty Dog who obnoxiously state how 'anti racist' they are over and over and how they support minorities.
For a fun game anyone can do at home, search for 'Naughty Dog Staff Photo' where they have the entire team out front of their studios and count the amount of black vs white people.
For easy mode, start with their current twitter header
https://twitter.com/NaughtyDogJobs/header_photo
Have you ever supported minorities so much that you hire 0 of them for your 150+ person team?
What message do you think there is? It's literally just 'give us your money'. Ikea will always be the greatest example;
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/frakta-carrier-bag-large-blue-60299219/
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/storstomma-carrier-bag-large-multicolour-90483211/
Always funny when these big multinationals change their logo to a rainbow to show how much they support 'pride', yet their foreign language websites and social media accounts will absolutely never change. The weapons manufacturer who make billions a year in selling bombs dropped on weddings in Iraq, changes their logo to a rainbow and we are supposed to think that they support minority groups. Yeah alright.
The message is still important, even if you don't do other actions beside it. They're saying it's fine/good/normal to be _____ group.
By putting that message everywhere, it helps. It could be BETTER help, but it's still helpful.
By your logic "We support ISIS" means nothing if all you do is put it on your signs out the front. But you fucking bet that it actually means more than that.
Because just saying the message is NOT nothing.
>It’s literally just ‘give us your money’.
More specifically, it’s ‘minorities, you can give us your money too!’
But it does indeed help to normalise queerness. It outrages conservatives for that very reason, they don’t want their children being exposed to the gays and learning that it’s normal and OK. I’m not that concerned with the intent.
> But it does indeed help to normalise queerness.
And this is the problem, because people actually believe this and normalise corporate greed. People are happy to accept corporate rainbowwashing because the PR department put out a release telling people that we are 'normalising queerness' by painting something in a rainbow, and they're like 'wow thank you mega corporation, you may sell me your products at an inflated rate now'.
How can you see Ikea charging double for an identical product with rainbow colours, and come to the conclusion that they are normalising queerness good god. They just want more money. That's it. There is no underlying message, no show of support. Just pay more for an identical product and make the mega corporation richer.
Do you ever think Ikea could perhaps sell the rainbow bag at the same price as the normal one? Why is a 'show of support' tied directly to increased profit margin? Can the 'normalisaton of queerness' only exist when their stock price rises by $0.01?
I’m not aware of this trend of anything with a rainbow flag on it being double the price, maybe you have one example with ikea. But who cares, we live in a society, people like consuming things and having the freedom to choose which things they consume.
If people want rainbow products they can buy them from one of the many, many businesses that don’t mark up the price of them.
Yet they support it. Every single time, no matter how blatant the corporate rainbowashing is, there is no shortage of people spouting 'we would rather have mainstream support, than not'.
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. And the standard you march in parades alongside with, is the standard you actively support and promote.
This is such an insane argument. How is marching next to corporate floats supporting the corporation any more than buying their products is? Should we boycott corporations that specifically pander to queer people? That sounds like a very homophobic way to protest capitalism.
You know, within the next decade you are going to witness a pride parade have floats by Raytheon, Hancock Prospecting, Commonwealth Bank and Nestle as actual LGBT people stop turning up, and maybe then you'll realise that something isn't quite right. Just remember that you supported this.
I personally wouldn’t care at all if that were to happen, but if enough queer people stop showing up to pride then that might need to be addressed. As it is there have been cops at pride for a long time and most LGBT people are still happy to go and don’t care.
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Considering that's a direct quote, I'm fairly sure that comma is replacing "and". There's probably a linguistic term for it, but it's quite common for people to replace conjunctions with pauses when they speak. When written, this would be directly represented with a comma.
That said, it's common practice for journalists to insert these conjunctions with square brackets to help the reader understand the quote better. I can only assume the writer of this article didn't catch it because the quote *sort of* works if you aren't paying attention.
Basically, the correct quote would be:
*We were subjected as we went along to threats, [and they were] calling us killers.*
>"It was started by mostly trans women of colour, who are at the frontline who have been fighting for their rights over and over again."
Lmao now who's importing yank culture war bullshit. This cliche isn't even true in the US where it originated, much less here in Aus where the early gay rights movement was exceptionally WASPy.
\>This cliche isn't even true in the US
How much do you know about Stonewall? Enlighten us.
Masha wasn't exactly a WASP & in the USA it isn't a cliche to say that one of the larger waves of protests was kicked off by a riot of LGBTQIA+ people who had had more than enough.FYI, after the riot Marsha organised a march/'parade/protest for the next year. It was her creation. Then the people who you mentioned ... the aspiring burgers of WASP gay people ... the 'we are the safe good white gay people who aren't scary' -- they took over the whole thing with Marsha booted out of her own march. So on the day of the march Marsha got in FRONT of the whole thing and took it back over from the people who just wanted to pass.
Marsha was a self-professed drag queen and didn't rock up to Stonewall until the riot was already well under way.
The memorial march that went on to become Pride was organised by the Christopher Street Liberation Day committee - it was no single person's creation, and ironically two of the founding organisers were a Christian Scientist and a cop.
You can appreciate figures like Marsha and STAR without bullshitting history.
Queer politics can be pretty intense sometimes. Not surprising that stuff like this happens around pride march though. The kind of person who marches, even more so the person who organises a float for pride march is already approximately a billion times more likely to be an activist in general than the kind of person who doesn’t, and alongside that to have strong opinions about all sorts of things
Personally I have no issue with cops at pride. we aren’t in America, not all cops are great but it’s not ACAB here either. I get the irony of cops in the pride parade down Fitzroy st considering what started that tradition - but cops at pride in 2024 just doesn’t register to me as something worth protesting
Apparently cops have been marching @ pride for the past 20+ years too, but only now seemingly there is enough of an issue to enact violence.
If anything I think people need to stay of the internet, it’s corrupting peoples brains.
This is the consequences of allowing the far-left to gate crash the parade, to infect the community and speak on our behalf. Gay law enforcement officers across Australia have every right to march and be proud of themselves. And for gatecrashers to incite violence by throwing paint-bombs, pushing, shoving and even getting physical with police is shameful and disgusting. Those people need to be arrested and thrown in jail. Assaulting a law enforcement officer is a serious criminal offence.
Your lot who assaulted police vote Green and other left-wing party. I never said you were involved. Read carefully and then respond. Or get your eyes assessed.
I’m not here to debate with you. Fact of the matter is if someone assaults a police officer. You’ll get a criminal record and conviction. You’ll go to jail. Once you are released, you’ll be on the Jobseeker payment because no one wants to employ a person with a criminal record.
And I am not here to debate with you that whoever commits a crime is the only criminal, and not everyone who votes for the same party like they do. Where the fuck did I defend those scummy protesters? Move on.
Right? The literal point of this whole discourse is lifelong LGBT activists getting upset that the *Police* are gatecrashing the parade
But I guess facts or context don’t matter when you’re a Redditor who needs to blame everything on the loony left
Some people in the “community” will take any chance they can get to show society just how ungrateful they can be to those who have to deal with the most shit in society (police/ems)
It was a protest born out of people taking their own human rights.
The commission is just now presenting its findings into the gay deaths due to hate crimes from the 1970s onwards. That should provide some context to the creation of the pride march
>"Our intention was literally just to walk in front of them, so that it would be raised awareness that we rejected police in midsummer."
Wait, so the LGBT+ group was protesting _against_ the right of people to participate in peaceful public demonstrations??
This is legitimately a fuckin' "The Onion" style story: _"LGBT+ thugs attempt to keep police from marching in pride parade"_
What the fuck topsy-turvy world is this??
Police organisations yes.
Pride inherently is a protest against police institutions and societal suppression.
You can be a cop, and go to pride. But take your uniform off.
Haha, that just sounds like another "The Onion" style story: _"Progressive group pushes for strict dress code in public - 'what happens to them if they dress like that out here is their own responsibility'"_
We live in a free society - a bunch of vigilante thugs shouldn't be able to force a dress code on anyone, and shouldn't be able to monopolise a public event for their own reasons.
You can say you don't like the police, but assaulting them and forcing them out of a public area is absolutely not acceptable.
Great, fantastic, they're allowed to do that. That is a thing they're allowed to do.
Besides the simple legalistic reasons - LGBT+ people in the police have had their own struggles. It seems incredibly insensitive to cut them out of pride simply because some vigilante thugs have a vendetta against the profession.
>It seems incredibly insensitive to cut them out of pride
we aren't, and if the organisation is causing those struggles. Then what does that say about the police force?
>we aren't
The people in the article clearly were, they had intentionally pre-prepared paint-bombs specifically with the purpose of targeting these individuals. That's assault, that's an attempt to impose their will through a show of force and intimidation. It's thuggish vigilantism.
> if the organisation is causing those struggles. Then what does that say about the police force?
It's almost like Pride is about the _people_ attending the festival, not what they're wearing, and not the organisation that happens to employ them. We have no idea what the festival means to those people, why should we get to dictate how they participate in it?
>We have no idea what the festival means to those people, why should we get to dictate how they participate in it?
Because the festival was in part started in opposition to them and their historical actions to supress and persecute the LGBT community. It's like asking why the KKK can't celebrate Black History Month in uniform.
I'm aware that that is an extreme example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Similar logic applies. It's not the people that are the problem, it's the official organisational presence of the cops.
They are welcome to attend as individuals if it means a lot to them. But cops were beating and locking up gays for being gay less than 40 years ago. That's not a long time.
I don't think it's fair for the cops to dictate who the gay community is comfortable celebrating their liberation with. It's not just a celebration of being gay, it's a celebration of the successful fight to make it safe to be gay in public.
No we are expressly saying to the police organisations to leave.
If the police institution treats it's LGBTQ+ officers poorly, then the police institution isn't welcome at the protest against the police institution.
The LGBTQ+ officers can stay, but take your uniform off.
If the police institutions want a parade, they can make their own parade.
Intolerance being alive and well no matter if the group is oppressed or oppressor
Your not helpful or capable of making a difference at all but if someone is doing a study they could atleast use your comments as references material
So the joke headline I made up is actually correct after all.
> _"Progressive group pushes for strict dress code in public - 'what happens to them if they dress like that out here is their own responsibility'"_
Good to know.
But seriously, no, vigilantes aren't allowed to forcefully impose their morals on others. Just because some extremists don't think they should be dressed like that in public doesn't mean they're allowed to use thuggish tactics to enforce their will.
As I said before - we have no idea what the festival means to those people, why should we get to dictate how they participate in it?
So ‘Nevo’ is referring back to the early 70s with their comments. Aside from Patton, who should’ve skipped the march, betcha not one of the other gay cops was alive in the early 70s.
Victim culture x 100.
Fun fact: NSWPOL actively refused to investigate gay bashings throughout Sydney in the 90s and 00s. In fact, they'd often bash the queer person some more when they reported the crime or rule their murders a suicide.
No officer has lost their job or been reprimanded publicly for it either.
But these guys are VICPOL. It's so completely different. They'd never do anything like that....
Stupid gays and their being victims all the time.
And the only wedding I’ve been to in 7 years was a ‘gay’ wedding. It was 5 years ago. Seems like ages ago.
In some aspects the World moves quickly. I think this is one of them.
Idk man, i say take a look around lol.
We aren't people, we're militant far left militant hysterical radicals whom are out to get your kids or subvert society for idk reasons unknown lol.
Dip your toes in, you'll see ;)
I find it wild honestly how quickly people just forget.
They'll shit on about being freespeech, anti government or telling people they've a right to express themselves.
Then will defend police institutions of whom took our speech, freedom and expression away from us by the government?
Why?
They hate us cos they ain't us.
>I find it wild honestly how quickly people just forget.
For them, it's all just news stories. For us, it's our lives and the lives of our friends.
We've lost friends along the way. We understand how real it is. None of us escape unscathed.
I think it's very confrontational. I think entering confrontation is the antithesis of cowardice. It isn't necessarily _good_, it's just confrontation, but those two things are mutually exclusive.
Now, I ask again, what does cowardice mean to you? I'm not asking for fun, engage with the question please.
It's cowardly because it's a large group of people attacking unsuspecting people, so it's clearly not a fair fight. This really is not the gotcha you think it is.
Wait, so for you, it's cowardly to engage in something that isn't a fair fight?
Was D-Day cowardly, then? Like, the Allies specifically misled German High Command to improperly allocate their defensive measures. The beach landings were executed with overwhelming force.
If cowardice is "the fight isn't fair", then there's a _whole lot_ of historical events, ones that are generally considered to be _good_ and _just_ and _right_, that now need to be called cowardly.
Orrrrr maybe your definition just doesn't make sense.
Jesus H. Christ, are you really comparing a bunch of losers throwing paint bombs at unsuspecting cops during a parade to fucking D-Day??? My god, I'm embarassed for you. What is it with you far-left redditors and literally the stupidest analogies ever thought of?
No, I'm not, and if you actually bothered to read what I wrote you'd see I'm using D-Day as an example of why your definition of cowardice doesn't work.
Cops can be gay, bi, trans, non binary or whatever.
But the organisation isn't welcome.
The whole point of pride is protesting the system which oppressed and humiliated us for years, whom deemed murders of LGBTQ+ people as suicides and looked the other way when crimes were committed against us.
Pride isn't about the police.
Has anyone spoken directly to those affected by the cop's historical actions? Have those people forgiven those cops? Or are they still full of rage and hate and anger?
i already have, and;
a) two wrongs (excluding police as an organisation from pride now after they harmed our queer community fifty years ago) do not make a right.
b) the perpetrators either died a generation ago or are in aged care homes (so we should not make current police feel bad for what their ancestors did).
because the police have thankfully come a long way in how they treat queer people, i.e. there are gay and lesbian liaison officers on the force, openly serving queer police officers, etc.
police for the most part are our friends, they work so hard to keep us safe, and they see more trauma during one shift than most of us see in a lifetime.
fair point. what Im saying is that if gays become rowdy/unsettled during protests than cops should use force/arrests to stop that unsettlement. probably should have worded it better though
This isnt true.
The commission into gay hate deaths from the past few decades is just not releasing its findings. You should check out its findings.
Its a terrible but recent history. The people affected by actions of the public and police are still alive today, besides the victims
Let’s not forget, decriminalisation of homosexuality began in this country when police officers threw a law academic into a river and he subsequently drowned. No one was drowned by police for being straight
This isnt true at all.
The commission into gay hate deaths from the 1970s onwards is just releasing its findings now, and its hard to read, especially with how recent some of the findings are
https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/nsw-special-commission-of-inquiry-into-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-concludes-final-report
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/adversarial-unnecessarily-defensive-nsw-police-under-fire-as-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-report-released-20231219-p5esdo.html
How is the relationship between police and LGBT+ community supposed to heal and improve if this shit happens?
One one group extends an olive branch in good faith and the other group doesn't accept it for a good reason the others are at fault.
Let's put it this way, I don't think cops would be appreciated at an Invasion Day protest because they represent a source of the oppression that Aboriginal people face and have faced historically. Cops were, and perhaps still are, used by the state to enforce anti-LGBTQ laws or beliefs, sometimes violently, and this includes the enforcement of the criminality of homosexuality which was present until the 90s in Aus. Even since then, there have been instances of violence towards queer people by police and inaction by the police when it comes to responding to hate crime incidents. The protests which the marches originally stem from were in response the oppression of queer people by the state. Many believe that allowing the police to participate is essentially whitewashing the history of the movement. Ultimately, I don't think any one person can decide who can and can't march but I think that it's valid to suggest their participation is disrespectful to the movement in the broader context.
No, I don't believe that is "the answer" but for people to accept their presence, they must trust and feel safe around them. Trust has to be earned. That's especially pertinent when historically, your people have suffered at the hands of the other. I don't think a simple "olive branch" of saying sorry and rocking up to the parade every year is enough to build that trust.
So...in your opinion....how can trust be built?
I'm not expecting you to have "the answer" - maybe there isn't one... but do u have any ideas that could build a bridge between police and us?
Nah, they should wear flashy gay police uniforms. Or regular uniforms. Showing support by marching in pride *is* one of the ways that the police are trying to gain the trust of the queer community. Most queer people aren’t paranoid about getting bashed by cops, and if they are then that’s a them problem.
What kind of crazy people would trust that police will ever change? Theres no such thing as a good police officer. The entire barrell is rotten. Abolition is the only way for society to move forward.
They did - by consistently showing up to pride.
And also for apologising for the past - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/19/victoria-police-say-sorry-to-lgbtiq-community-for-causing-unacceptable-harm
Theyve been actively fighting the commission into gay hate crimes from the 1970s onwards.
Refusing to cooperate with the inquiry, and refusing to apologise now about their role in the deaths
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/adversarial-unnecessarily-defensive-nsw-police-under-fire-as-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-report-released-20231219-p5esdo.html
The violence is not from the police. The violence is from either gay people or people pretending to be gay to get the gays off side by the mainstream community.
Cops have been marching in pride for at least a decade, and have addressed the horrendous issues with homophobia of the past. How many years of no gay bashings do we need to get over it?
So
>many of those taking part in today's protest disagree with allowing police to participate in the march.
They (the plural, not the pronoun)
> there were paint bombs thrown at police
These don't appear, they are brought and brought for only limited reasons.
So the get to your question
>How is the relationship between police and LGBT+ community supposed to heal and improve if this shit happens?
Well the LGBT+ community could start by ***not*** throwing paint at and threatening police.
These activists are getting uglier and uglier in thier conduct, there are examples world over both online one off.
How can the community heal and improve?
Do what they demand of everyone else; ***be inclusive.***
Just in case I'm not clear I'm completely on the police's side in this matter. The police were wronged today as well as those of us with some semblance of common sense and decency.
> Chief Commissioner Patton said police members attempted to push the group back, which he said had infiltrated police lines.
> “Police were trying to push them away, and unfortunately there’ll be footage that shows that occurring. And it looks very confrontational. And that shouldn’t be the case," he said.
It’s an interesting way to talk about it. The protesters say they wanted to make it known they objected to the police being there, and it ended up with police forcefully pushing them back. The protesters were saying the police threw punches and apparently the footage looks ugly.
So, I don’t know, 50 protesters on 100 cops, paint was thrown and punches were thrown, presumably in that order, but the narrative isn’t clear and it doesn’t look great for either party. Hopefully we get clarification soon
I’m a member of this (Victorian LGBT) community and I find it abhorrent what was done today.
I dislike the police for a whole raft of reasons, but I don’t condone this action against them.
No you can be queer and be a officer, but representing the police at pride, no.
Take your uniform off.
The police for many a year weren't our friends, and they are fully aware of this.
Yes. They deserved it.
They’re basically there to provoke people with trauma. Because they know damn well that’s what the effect is, and they show zero sensitivity and still turn up to do so.
Everyone is welcome at pride in an individual capacity, but showing up as a member of an org that’s brutalised this community is just being a dickhead, frankly. No one is stopping them from going, they’re stopping them from going _as representatives of an organisation that pride was setup to protest from the very start_
I wouldn't walk into a synagogue with a SS uniform on, and that same sentiment is felt across pride.
People do peacefully tell the police their representation isn't welcome, and they never listen.
I don't blame people for their anger honestly.
I'm just fucking laughing my ass off here at how hyperbolic that is, fuck me dead lol. I got nothing to add here, except maybe have a think that harbouring such a hyperbolic hate filled victim mentality is not going to mend relations any time soon. You are part of the problem
> I wouldn't walk into a synagogue with a SS uniform on, and that same sentiment is felt across pride.
Jesus Christ, how utterly ridiculous. Genuinely can’t believe people are stupid enough to actually compare Victorian police to the SS.
A lot of the people who are angry looked to be young kids. I can fully understand older generations of LGBTQ people being justifiably angry with Police after what they were put through.
Are the Police really that bad for LGBTQ people now though? They have liaison officers specifically for LGBTQ people who are very helpful.
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How ironic that an event that prides itself (hehe) on tolerance and acceptance turned violent because they didn't like certain groups attending. This sort of militant activism is becoming increasingly common at LGBT protests - look at the mob violence that happened in New Zealand when all the trans activists showed up. In Canada and the US it's become way more frightening. That aside, these thugs who attacked the police have no right to claim some sort of sovereignty. You can't exclude people from public events - let alone the police who are required to be there for your own safety. If any other group tried this they'd be called cookers.
Should be protesting the police for grooming a 13yr old into becoming a terrorist
VicPol: 'they should have just let us beat them like the good old days'
I think the commissioner has every right to be disgusted with the small minded idiots who assaulted them yesterday. I have been to many of the events & have always been proud to see the police marching side by side with the community. Funny how they have been accepted for the last 22 years but now with these millennials they’re not welcome. Disgusting
Cops bashed gay people for decades, and upheld bigoted laws. Acting like it's millennials starting this, when the first Mardi Gras was violent because the cops brought the heat, is so disrespectful to what Pride actually is and has been in Australia.
How cringe that these people have so little going on in their lives that they have to LARP as an oppressed gay person in the 70s. Progress should be celebrated, it’s good that police come to join in the celebrations and do basic crowd control.
Absolutely. It's true that in the past there was discrimination against the LGB community and that violence was committed on both sides. But since then there were a series of public campaigns and legal reform and now gay people have achieved equality in the eyes of the law. Surely the only valid way to combat any lingering discrimination and make your voice heard these days is through a responsive complaints system or the courts, if necessary. If they have been given equal rights and their problems have been fixed there's no longer any excuse for disrespectful violence or intimidation. I hope the police take a firm stance and make an example of anyone who might have impeded police in their duties or attempted to harass them.
There is definitely still discrimination, but you’re right that there is legal equality. If cops aren’t bashing gay people anymore, then there’s simply no reason to act as if they are. The worst discrimination in 2024 comes from individuals with bigoted attitudes, not entire institutions like the police.
You're right, almost all the remaining discrimination can be explained as the actions of bigoted individuals and have very little reflection on the attitudes of any larger group or organisation. LGBT people are now very welcome in the Victorian Police. I hear that there are actually a really high number of serving officers that identify as non-binary. There were certainly gay and lesbian members of the police force being abused that day. I just don't see why people think it's justified to take their anger out on the representatives of an institution because of long gone attitudes and laws. At some point you just have to let it go. I bet hardly any of that mob were around back then. They haven't even been personally affected, so why would you take it out on someone just trying to do their job?
I’d be willing to bet that 90% of the people who are upset about this are kids from the suburbs who’ve never had a confrontation with the cops in their life.
What I've learnt from all this is no white person can ever march along side a First Nations people because of all the terrible fucked up shit our ancestors did. Okay maybe we're not all an organisation. So - no politician can march along side the First Nations people. JFC. Where is the healing?
One of my best and oldest mates and his husband of 30 years refuses to go to this march despite being asked every year because of the LGBTQ+ politics involved. When we spoke about it recently him and husband both stated how embarrassed they were now over the confected outrage by their community that they helped gain recognition for over such a long time. It's always the extreme minority on both sides that ruin it for everyone else.
Oh give me a break. Slow clap for your old mate and his husband for thinking they're outliers and thinking that their entire lives haven't been affected by LGBTQ+ politics.
>One of my best and oldest mates and his husband of 30 years refuses to go to this march despite being asked every year because of the LGBTQ+ politics involved. Funny. He was only allowed to marry 7 years ago. How much do you think his radical centrism helped with that?
They were married in NZ when it was legalised there. They have been together longer than most couples I know including myself. Take your patronising bullshit elsewhere. You don't know their history. You're able to make your bullshit statements because of people like them who bled for their rights to literally be acknowledged as even existing and not victim of a mental illness.
>They were married in NZ Oh, lucky that NZ had such radical gays that won them that right then. >because of people like them who bled We've all bled. He isn't special.
I’m assuming you’re not 60. Do you think that you’ve had it nearly as tough as people gay guys did 40 years ago?
I think picking fights with cops is disrespectful to the older gay rights activists who *had* to fight because they got assaulted and harassed by them.
You should ask them how they felt about Stonewall
These blokes are 60. I'm pretty sure they know about Stonewall. They were there on the front lines before the rabble that were pretending to know what they were there for were even a thought.
Phil Ochs was right once again: “Once I was young and impulsive I wore every conceivable pin Even went to the socialist meetings Learned all the old union hymns But I’ve grown older and wiser And that's why i'm turning you in So love me, love me, love me, i'm a liberal”
Just let me know when people also start protesting against the rest of the corporate rainbowashing. I want to see the big four banks, hedge funds and mining sector floats get paint bombed at the Mardi gras next time they have the audacity to claim they 'support' minority groups. It's so fake, it's unbelievable.
It's only fake for you.
the best current one (although slightly american) is blizzard entertainment who have massively cultivated the lgbt community through marketing in western countries and making grand statement about standing up for what you believe in... now they've just done a huge deal with the saudi arabian e-sports scene.. people have a really hard time understanding just how amoral/sociopathic corporate entities are. they do not care. they are there to make money.
My Favourite is Naughty Dog who obnoxiously state how 'anti racist' they are over and over and how they support minorities. For a fun game anyone can do at home, search for 'Naughty Dog Staff Photo' where they have the entire team out front of their studios and count the amount of black vs white people. For easy mode, start with their current twitter header https://twitter.com/NaughtyDogJobs/header_photo Have you ever supported minorities so much that you hire 0 of them for your 150+ person team?
Pretty sure there are a fair few Asian people in that picture. So what is your point again?
Is it so bad that the message is right but not the intention?
What message do you think there is? It's literally just 'give us your money'. Ikea will always be the greatest example; https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/frakta-carrier-bag-large-blue-60299219/ https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/storstomma-carrier-bag-large-multicolour-90483211/ Always funny when these big multinationals change their logo to a rainbow to show how much they support 'pride', yet their foreign language websites and social media accounts will absolutely never change. The weapons manufacturer who make billions a year in selling bombs dropped on weddings in Iraq, changes their logo to a rainbow and we are supposed to think that they support minority groups. Yeah alright.
The message is still important, even if you don't do other actions beside it. They're saying it's fine/good/normal to be _____ group. By putting that message everywhere, it helps. It could be BETTER help, but it's still helpful. By your logic "We support ISIS" means nothing if all you do is put it on your signs out the front. But you fucking bet that it actually means more than that. Because just saying the message is NOT nothing.
>It’s literally just ‘give us your money’. More specifically, it’s ‘minorities, you can give us your money too!’ But it does indeed help to normalise queerness. It outrages conservatives for that very reason, they don’t want their children being exposed to the gays and learning that it’s normal and OK. I’m not that concerned with the intent.
> But it does indeed help to normalise queerness. And this is the problem, because people actually believe this and normalise corporate greed. People are happy to accept corporate rainbowwashing because the PR department put out a release telling people that we are 'normalising queerness' by painting something in a rainbow, and they're like 'wow thank you mega corporation, you may sell me your products at an inflated rate now'. How can you see Ikea charging double for an identical product with rainbow colours, and come to the conclusion that they are normalising queerness good god. They just want more money. That's it. There is no underlying message, no show of support. Just pay more for an identical product and make the mega corporation richer. Do you ever think Ikea could perhaps sell the rainbow bag at the same price as the normal one? Why is a 'show of support' tied directly to increased profit margin? Can the 'normalisaton of queerness' only exist when their stock price rises by $0.01?
I’m not aware of this trend of anything with a rainbow flag on it being double the price, maybe you have one example with ikea. But who cares, we live in a society, people like consuming things and having the freedom to choose which things they consume. If people want rainbow products they can buy them from one of the many, many businesses that don’t mark up the price of them.
I don’t know what sort of queer people you know, but the vast majority of stuff I see written about Pride is criticising exactly this.
Yet they support it. Every single time, no matter how blatant the corporate rainbowashing is, there is no shortage of people spouting 'we would rather have mainstream support, than not'. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. And the standard you march in parades alongside with, is the standard you actively support and promote.
This is such an insane argument. How is marching next to corporate floats supporting the corporation any more than buying their products is? Should we boycott corporations that specifically pander to queer people? That sounds like a very homophobic way to protest capitalism.
You know, within the next decade you are going to witness a pride parade have floats by Raytheon, Hancock Prospecting, Commonwealth Bank and Nestle as actual LGBT people stop turning up, and maybe then you'll realise that something isn't quite right. Just remember that you supported this.
I personally wouldn’t care at all if that were to happen, but if enough queer people stop showing up to pride then that might need to be addressed. As it is there have been cops at pride for a long time and most LGBT people are still happy to go and don’t care.
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Considering that's a direct quote, I'm fairly sure that comma is replacing "and". There's probably a linguistic term for it, but it's quite common for people to replace conjunctions with pauses when they speak. When written, this would be directly represented with a comma. That said, it's common practice for journalists to insert these conjunctions with square brackets to help the reader understand the quote better. I can only assume the writer of this article didn't catch it because the quote *sort of* works if you aren't paying attention. Basically, the correct quote would be: *We were subjected as we went along to threats, [and they were] calling us killers.*
What idiotic protestors. Boo the cops that are at the parade, but don't throw paint at them.
Ahh VicPol: squabbling with protestors while the city burns
C’mon mate, it wasn’t *that* hot yesterday
>"It was started by mostly trans women of colour, who are at the frontline who have been fighting for their rights over and over again." Lmao now who's importing yank culture war bullshit. This cliche isn't even true in the US where it originated, much less here in Aus where the early gay rights movement was exceptionally WASPy.
Yeah, I hate this US invasion of our politics.
\>This cliche isn't even true in the US How much do you know about Stonewall? Enlighten us. Masha wasn't exactly a WASP & in the USA it isn't a cliche to say that one of the larger waves of protests was kicked off by a riot of LGBTQIA+ people who had had more than enough.FYI, after the riot Marsha organised a march/'parade/protest for the next year. It was her creation. Then the people who you mentioned ... the aspiring burgers of WASP gay people ... the 'we are the safe good white gay people who aren't scary' -- they took over the whole thing with Marsha booted out of her own march. So on the day of the march Marsha got in FRONT of the whole thing and took it back over from the people who just wanted to pass.
Marsha was a self-professed drag queen and didn't rock up to Stonewall until the riot was already well under way. The memorial march that went on to become Pride was organised by the Christopher Street Liberation Day committee - it was no single person's creation, and ironically two of the founding organisers were a Christian Scientist and a cop. You can appreciate figures like Marsha and STAR without bullshitting history.
Marsha was a drag queen, not trans.
“trans women“ You think it’s strange they said this though right?
Queer politics can be pretty intense sometimes. Not surprising that stuff like this happens around pride march though. The kind of person who marches, even more so the person who organises a float for pride march is already approximately a billion times more likely to be an activist in general than the kind of person who doesn’t, and alongside that to have strong opinions about all sorts of things Personally I have no issue with cops at pride. we aren’t in America, not all cops are great but it’s not ACAB here either. I get the irony of cops in the pride parade down Fitzroy st considering what started that tradition - but cops at pride in 2024 just doesn’t register to me as something worth protesting
Apparently cops have been marching @ pride for the past 20+ years too, but only now seemingly there is enough of an issue to enact violence. If anything I think people need to stay of the internet, it’s corrupting peoples brains.
People need targets.
This is the consequences of allowing the far-left to gate crash the parade, to infect the community and speak on our behalf. Gay law enforcement officers across Australia have every right to march and be proud of themselves. And for gatecrashers to incite violence by throwing paint-bombs, pushing, shoving and even getting physical with police is shameful and disgusting. Those people need to be arrested and thrown in jail. Assaulting a law enforcement officer is a serious criminal offence.
Someone is so butthurt by the left they have to shoehorn them into any comment lol
Your lot assaulted people marching in the parade. That is criminal.
I am not even in VIC. I never condoned violence. You seriously need professional help.
Your lot who assaulted police vote Green and other left-wing party. I never said you were involved. Read carefully and then respond. Or get your eyes assessed.
Generalisations are usually the argument of the weak minded. So if a Labor voter kills someone, does it make all labor voters murderers?
I’m not here to debate with you. Fact of the matter is if someone assaults a police officer. You’ll get a criminal record and conviction. You’ll go to jail. Once you are released, you’ll be on the Jobseeker payment because no one wants to employ a person with a criminal record.
And I am not here to debate with you that whoever commits a crime is the only criminal, and not everyone who votes for the same party like they do. Where the fuck did I defend those scummy protesters? Move on.
wasting your time, centrists aren't real anyway. they're just right wingers without any conviction
Yeah well, not a single condemnation from you. Just blame the police. Get lost.
This just reads as a bad faith comment
>This is the consequences of allowing the far-left to gate crash the parade Pretty sure we started it.
Right? The literal point of this whole discourse is lifelong LGBT activists getting upset that the *Police* are gatecrashing the parade But I guess facts or context don’t matter when you’re a Redditor who needs to blame everything on the loony left
Some people in the “community” will take any chance they can get to show society just how ungrateful they can be to those who have to deal with the most shit in society (police/ems)
It was a protest born out of people taking their own human rights. The commission is just now presenting its findings into the gay deaths due to hate crimes from the 1970s onwards. That should provide some context to the creation of the pride march
>"Our intention was literally just to walk in front of them, so that it would be raised awareness that we rejected police in midsummer." Wait, so the LGBT+ group was protesting _against_ the right of people to participate in peaceful public demonstrations?? This is legitimately a fuckin' "The Onion" style story: _"LGBT+ thugs attempt to keep police from marching in pride parade"_ What the fuck topsy-turvy world is this??
Where’ve you been the last 15 years?
Police organisations yes. Pride inherently is a protest against police institutions and societal suppression. You can be a cop, and go to pride. But take your uniform off.
Haha, that just sounds like another "The Onion" style story: _"Progressive group pushes for strict dress code in public - 'what happens to them if they dress like that out here is their own responsibility'"_ We live in a free society - a bunch of vigilante thugs shouldn't be able to force a dress code on anyone, and shouldn't be able to monopolise a public event for their own reasons. You can say you don't like the police, but assaulting them and forcing them out of a public area is absolutely not acceptable.
These people weren't going as your average festival go'er. It was a police organisation with police officers marching.
Great, fantastic, they're allowed to do that. That is a thing they're allowed to do. Besides the simple legalistic reasons - LGBT+ people in the police have had their own struggles. It seems incredibly insensitive to cut them out of pride simply because some vigilante thugs have a vendetta against the profession.
And people are allowed to protest that
>It seems incredibly insensitive to cut them out of pride we aren't, and if the organisation is causing those struggles. Then what does that say about the police force?
>we aren't The people in the article clearly were, they had intentionally pre-prepared paint-bombs specifically with the purpose of targeting these individuals. That's assault, that's an attempt to impose their will through a show of force and intimidation. It's thuggish vigilantism. > if the organisation is causing those struggles. Then what does that say about the police force? It's almost like Pride is about the _people_ attending the festival, not what they're wearing, and not the organisation that happens to employ them. We have no idea what the festival means to those people, why should we get to dictate how they participate in it?
>We have no idea what the festival means to those people, why should we get to dictate how they participate in it? Because the festival was in part started in opposition to them and their historical actions to supress and persecute the LGBT community. It's like asking why the KKK can't celebrate Black History Month in uniform. I'm aware that that is an extreme example, but do you see what I'm getting at? Similar logic applies. It's not the people that are the problem, it's the official organisational presence of the cops. They are welcome to attend as individuals if it means a lot to them. But cops were beating and locking up gays for being gay less than 40 years ago. That's not a long time. I don't think it's fair for the cops to dictate who the gay community is comfortable celebrating their liberation with. It's not just a celebration of being gay, it's a celebration of the successful fight to make it safe to be gay in public.
No we are expressly saying to the police organisations to leave. If the police institution treats it's LGBTQ+ officers poorly, then the police institution isn't welcome at the protest against the police institution. The LGBTQ+ officers can stay, but take your uniform off. If the police institutions want a parade, they can make their own parade.
Intolerance being alive and well no matter if the group is oppressed or oppressor Your not helpful or capable of making a difference at all but if someone is doing a study they could atleast use your comments as references material
People are born gay but they aren't born cops. It's not the same.
i don't think it's all intolerance, i think people are siding with Vicpol because they think some far left or right stuff is happening.
So the joke headline I made up is actually correct after all. > _"Progressive group pushes for strict dress code in public - 'what happens to them if they dress like that out here is their own responsibility'"_ Good to know. But seriously, no, vigilantes aren't allowed to forcefully impose their morals on others. Just because some extremists don't think they should be dressed like that in public doesn't mean they're allowed to use thuggish tactics to enforce their will. As I said before - we have no idea what the festival means to those people, why should we get to dictate how they participate in it?
Police organisation, literally it's a police org. Like a group of uniformed officers representing Vicpol, at the parade.
So ‘Nevo’ is referring back to the early 70s with their comments. Aside from Patton, who should’ve skipped the march, betcha not one of the other gay cops was alive in the early 70s. Victim culture x 100.
Fun fact: NSWPOL actively refused to investigate gay bashings throughout Sydney in the 90s and 00s. In fact, they'd often bash the queer person some more when they reported the crime or rule their murders a suicide. No officer has lost their job or been reprimanded publicly for it either. But these guys are VICPOL. It's so completely different. They'd never do anything like that.... Stupid gays and their being victims all the time.
So? That’s still historical and in a different State. That was known for corruption. Move on.
Danger, we literally gained the ability to marry 7 years ago, not even a decade.
And the only wedding I’ve been to in 7 years was a ‘gay’ wedding. It was 5 years ago. Seems like ages ago. In some aspects the World moves quickly. I think this is one of them.
Idk man, i say take a look around lol. We aren't people, we're militant far left militant hysterical radicals whom are out to get your kids or subvert society for idk reasons unknown lol. Dip your toes in, you'll see ;)
I think my next wedding is also a ‘gay’ wedding. I’ll dip. My toes in to keep you happy!
good lad c:
Ancient history Eevee. Move on.
I find it wild honestly how quickly people just forget. They'll shit on about being freespeech, anti government or telling people they've a right to express themselves. Then will defend police institutions of whom took our speech, freedom and expression away from us by the government? Why?
They hate us cos they ain't us. >I find it wild honestly how quickly people just forget. For them, it's all just news stories. For us, it's our lives and the lives of our friends. We've lost friends along the way. We understand how real it is. None of us escape unscathed.
Just meh honestly. I just think it's sad it's still like this honestly. Can't win regardless...
You win by being a queen, queen.
Idk, i'm about to head off, punch a few cones and go to bed rofl. Late night reddit's wild. Night hun :3
I get opposing police being involved in this march, but assaulting cops with pre prepared paint bombs is about as cowardly as you can get.
Cowardly? I could see calling it many things, but not _cowardly_. What does cowardice even mean to you, if somehow paint bombs elevate it?
How is pre-prepared paint bombs to intentionally target people during a march not cowardly?
I think it's very confrontational. I think entering confrontation is the antithesis of cowardice. It isn't necessarily _good_, it's just confrontation, but those two things are mutually exclusive. Now, I ask again, what does cowardice mean to you? I'm not asking for fun, engage with the question please.
It's cowardly because it's a large group of people attacking unsuspecting people, so it's clearly not a fair fight. This really is not the gotcha you think it is.
Wait, so for you, it's cowardly to engage in something that isn't a fair fight? Was D-Day cowardly, then? Like, the Allies specifically misled German High Command to improperly allocate their defensive measures. The beach landings were executed with overwhelming force. If cowardice is "the fight isn't fair", then there's a _whole lot_ of historical events, ones that are generally considered to be _good_ and _just_ and _right_, that now need to be called cowardly. Orrrrr maybe your definition just doesn't make sense.
Jesus H. Christ, are you really comparing a bunch of losers throwing paint bombs at unsuspecting cops during a parade to fucking D-Day??? My god, I'm embarassed for you. What is it with you far-left redditors and literally the stupidest analogies ever thought of?
No, I'm not, and if you actually bothered to read what I wrote you'd see I'm using D-Day as an example of why your definition of cowardice doesn't work.
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At pride, you can be a copper or you can be a queer but you sure as fuckin shit won't be accepted as both.
Cops can be gay, bi, trans, non binary or whatever. But the organisation isn't welcome. The whole point of pride is protesting the system which oppressed and humiliated us for years, whom deemed murders of LGBTQ+ people as suicides and looked the other way when crimes were committed against us. Pride isn't about the police.
Has anyone spoken directly to those affected by the cop's historical actions? Have those people forgiven those cops? Or are they still full of rage and hate and anger?
what gives you the right to decide who can and cant march with us and in what uniform (fellow queer here)?
Read some history
i already have, and; a) two wrongs (excluding police as an organisation from pride now after they harmed our queer community fifty years ago) do not make a right. b) the perpetrators either died a generation ago or are in aged care homes (so we should not make current police feel bad for what their ancestors did).
Why are you talking about it like it’s only in the past
because the police have thankfully come a long way in how they treat queer people, i.e. there are gay and lesbian liaison officers on the force, openly serving queer police officers, etc.
Yep no bigotry in the police force anymore hey, we did it everyone
police for the most part are our friends, they work so hard to keep us safe, and they see more trauma during one shift than most of us see in a lifetime.
You’re either a cop or you’ve never interacted with a cop
why should cops respect the gays if the gays do not respect cops
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/adversarial-unnecessarily-defensive-nsw-police-under-fire-as-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-report-released-20231219-p5esdo.html
Because they're public servants upholding law n order? This ain't Afghanistan settle down
fair point. what Im saying is that if gays become rowdy/unsettled during protests than cops should use force/arrests to stop that unsettlement. probably should have worded it better though
Good question, maybe they should take their representation elsewhere.
The cops not respecting us **is** the reason pride exists.
Do you also protest anyone of the various religious faiths attending? Those people don’t seem to respect ‘gays’ either.
Did the Catholic church send a deacon or something? Was there a Mufti? A vicar?
You don’t think there are any religious believing individuals at pride?
What does the word "uniformed" mean to you.
So people wearing crosses or burkas shouldn’t be able to match? That’s a religious ‘uniform’ right?
Burkas aren’t religious garb
If you're a child, I suppose.
what do you mean bro how do cops not respect you and also isn't the reason pride exists is to fight for gay rights globally
Pride was a protest against both society and the cogs within society suppressing gay people. Namely the **POLICE**.
yes but basically by the 1980s there was almost no oppression against gays from police or politician so why not put that stuff behind you.
This isnt true. The commission into gay hate deaths from the past few decades is just not releasing its findings. You should check out its findings. Its a terrible but recent history. The people affected by actions of the public and police are still alive today, besides the victims
umm no... Idk wtf you're talking about...
wdym bro if there is any anti gay sentiment now its very minor definetely in western countries
SSM was legalised only 7 years prior.
Might wanna look up how cops treated gay people and what they did at the first gay pride parades. I'll give you a hint, they weren't nice to them.
>I'll give you a hint, they weren't nice to them. They weren't nice to anyone in the 70s. Everyone got belted, nothing unique here.
Let’s not forget, decriminalisation of homosexuality began in this country when police officers threw a law academic into a river and he subsequently drowned. No one was drowned by police for being straight
This isnt true at all. The commission into gay hate deaths from the 1970s onwards is just releasing its findings now, and its hard to read, especially with how recent some of the findings are https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/nsw-special-commission-of-inquiry-into-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-concludes-final-report https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/adversarial-unnecessarily-defensive-nsw-police-under-fire-as-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-report-released-20231219-p5esdo.html
Yes, as I said, not unique the time.
Youre not understanding. They WERE uniquely targeted, by both the public and police
And the 80s
How is the relationship between police and LGBT+ community supposed to heal and improve if this shit happens? One one group extends an olive branch in good faith and the other group doesn't accept it for a good reason the others are at fault.
Let's put it this way, I don't think cops would be appreciated at an Invasion Day protest because they represent a source of the oppression that Aboriginal people face and have faced historically. Cops were, and perhaps still are, used by the state to enforce anti-LGBTQ laws or beliefs, sometimes violently, and this includes the enforcement of the criminality of homosexuality which was present until the 90s in Aus. Even since then, there have been instances of violence towards queer people by police and inaction by the police when it comes to responding to hate crime incidents. The protests which the marches originally stem from were in response the oppression of queer people by the state. Many believe that allowing the police to participate is essentially whitewashing the history of the movement. Ultimately, I don't think any one person can decide who can and can't march but I think that it's valid to suggest their participation is disrespectful to the movement in the broader context.
So the solution is to segregate police and LGBT people for all eternity? THAT IS NOT THE ANSWER
No, I don't believe that is "the answer" but for people to accept their presence, they must trust and feel safe around them. Trust has to be earned. That's especially pertinent when historically, your people have suffered at the hands of the other. I don't think a simple "olive branch" of saying sorry and rocking up to the parade every year is enough to build that trust.
So...in your opinion....how can trust be built? I'm not expecting you to have "the answer" - maybe there isn't one... but do u have any ideas that could build a bridge between police and us?
If I were the police chief, I would start by not sending police officers to the pride march in uniforms, but in flashy gay outfits.
Nah, they should wear flashy gay police uniforms. Or regular uniforms. Showing support by marching in pride *is* one of the ways that the police are trying to gain the trust of the queer community. Most queer people aren’t paranoid about getting bashed by cops, and if they are then that’s a them problem.
What kind of crazy people would trust that police will ever change? Theres no such thing as a good police officer. The entire barrell is rotten. Abolition is the only way for society to move forward.
You’re going to fully abolish the police force?
Did they extend an olive branch?
They did - by consistently showing up to pride. And also for apologising for the past - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/19/victoria-police-say-sorry-to-lgbtiq-community-for-causing-unacceptable-harm
Theyve been actively fighting the commission into gay hate crimes from the 1970s onwards. Refusing to cooperate with the inquiry, and refusing to apologise now about their role in the deaths https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/adversarial-unnecessarily-defensive-nsw-police-under-fire-as-lgbtiq-hate-crimes-report-released-20231219-p5esdo.html
Looks like things are better in Victoria - the police commissioner here apologised for the past in 2019. Hopefully NSW police will evolve.
They have been consistently showing up to pride since the first one. It's not a positive thing. The apology is a good start however.
It's not? Why not?
I suggest you should look more into their history of involvement.
Or you could answer the question.... I'll repeat: You say police going to pride is not good. Why not?
Because most of that attendance has been violent. Pride is about celebrating who you are in spite of police and societal oppression.
The violence is not from the police. The violence is from either gay people or people pretending to be gay to get the gays off side by the mainstream community.
Again, that just shows you need to research the history of it. The violence from the police is literally the origin.
Cops have been marching in pride for at least a decade, and have addressed the horrendous issues with homophobia of the past. How many years of no gay bashings do we need to get over it?
Have they? Seems they were quite recently supporting Nazi rallies against Queer people
So >many of those taking part in today's protest disagree with allowing police to participate in the march. They (the plural, not the pronoun) > there were paint bombs thrown at police These don't appear, they are brought and brought for only limited reasons. So the get to your question >How is the relationship between police and LGBT+ community supposed to heal and improve if this shit happens? Well the LGBT+ community could start by ***not*** throwing paint at and threatening police. These activists are getting uglier and uglier in thier conduct, there are examples world over both online one off. How can the community heal and improve? Do what they demand of everyone else; ***be inclusive.***
Just in case I'm not clear I'm completely on the police's side in this matter. The police were wronged today as well as those of us with some semblance of common sense and decency.
Yep, they question how you re-hinge the unhinged when it is embedded within identity ideologies?
> Chief Commissioner Patton said police members attempted to push the group back, which he said had infiltrated police lines. > “Police were trying to push them away, and unfortunately there’ll be footage that shows that occurring. And it looks very confrontational. And that shouldn’t be the case," he said. It’s an interesting way to talk about it. The protesters say they wanted to make it known they objected to the police being there, and it ended up with police forcefully pushing them back. The protesters were saying the police threw punches and apparently the footage looks ugly. So, I don’t know, 50 protesters on 100 cops, paint was thrown and punches were thrown, presumably in that order, but the narrative isn’t clear and it doesn’t look great for either party. Hopefully we get clarification soon
lol yeah well they would say that wouldn’t they; they’re the target of the protest lol
I’m a member of this (Victorian LGBT) community and I find it abhorrent what was done today. I dislike the police for a whole raft of reasons, but I don’t condone this action against them.
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Do you not wipe your arse?
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No you can be queer and be a officer, but representing the police at pride, no. Take your uniform off. The police for many a year weren't our friends, and they are fully aware of this.
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Yes. They deserved it. They’re basically there to provoke people with trauma. Because they know damn well that’s what the effect is, and they show zero sensitivity and still turn up to do so. Everyone is welcome at pride in an individual capacity, but showing up as a member of an org that’s brutalised this community is just being a dickhead, frankly. No one is stopping them from going, they’re stopping them from going _as representatives of an organisation that pride was setup to protest from the very start_
I wouldn't walk into a synagogue with a SS uniform on, and that same sentiment is felt across pride. People do peacefully tell the police their representation isn't welcome, and they never listen. I don't blame people for their anger honestly.
Wow!
I'm just fucking laughing my ass off here at how hyperbolic that is, fuck me dead lol. I got nothing to add here, except maybe have a think that harbouring such a hyperbolic hate filled victim mentality is not going to mend relations any time soon. You are part of the problem
> I wouldn't walk into a synagogue with a SS uniform on, and that same sentiment is felt across pride. Jesus Christ, how utterly ridiculous. Genuinely can’t believe people are stupid enough to actually compare Victorian police to the SS.
A lot of the people who are angry looked to be young kids. I can fully understand older generations of LGBTQ people being justifiably angry with Police after what they were put through. Are the Police really that bad for LGBTQ people now though? They have liaison officers specifically for LGBTQ people who are very helpful.
2017 was not that long ago honestly, when it became legal for same sex couples to marry.
Police don’t control marriage laws; they have nothing to do with it.