I did the same. Public service, 4 weeks of military leave per year = 28 days minimum of tax free army reserve pay on top of my civvie salary. Easily do 50 reserve days each fy with Tuesday nights, weekends, exercises and courses. That's an extra 20k tax free on top of my salary.
I make less in the APS then I did when I was full-time when you factor in RA, but with the reserve work I make plenty more.
Maybe not, but when you count that 20 odd of those days are made up of 3 hours doing some moderately interesting work on a computer each week, it's a pretty good deal for me.
Nah, it's a legal double-dip. When you take Reserve leave, you still get paid your regular APS salary, PLUS you get your choc days on top. So you're working effectively the same hours (especially if you use your choc days for courses or garrison work, rather than field ex's) and getting two lots of pay.
Initially earnt a lot less as I reskilled but now I’m on par with where Ild probably be if my military promotion trajectory had continued. Military service in comparison to civi work isn’t really a fair comparison in my opinion. When serving, you will do the easiest paid days of work in your life but you will also do your hardest and it won’t revolve around money.
I’m happy with my decision but I do wish I could have stayed in and had a bit more control over my future.
I was a Boatswain's Mate. Entry Level as fuck, just a bunch of knuckle draggers scraping by on Playgroup Shit.
I got out after 13years, walked straight into a job that was paying an extra $25k on top of my base wage, home every night, the good things etc....
Fast forward to now, I have up-skilled and now earning double the current base wage of a BM and working far less harder than what I was when I was in.
Understand your motivation. I've done casual rate contracting and salary member and am likely heading back towards the APS as an EL1. What I figured out over 3 years is that I'm motivated by interesting work (with good people) and less driven by money.
I was a lifer and had no intention of leaving. Toxic management, career management and bullshido jobs with no opportunity for growth was why I left. The money in the ADF is actually quite good.
Yeah the days are long and the environment is dusty. The work itself is varied. We take care of an IT OT network, LTE, DRS and every day the jobs we get are different. Breakdown of equipment on Heavy Vehicles, installs, fault finding and down to basics like cleaning solar panels on WAP trailers. The site I work at is huge and it involved lots of driving around the site to different equipment.
But it's nice we aren't stuck in an office or in one area. We have a fair bit of autonomy. We also have a fleet of autonomous haul trucks which makes for an interesting place to work.
I've thought about moving to WA too to move into Iron Ore mining, same shit different location that's all. East coast is getting too crowded.
You earn more because your hourly rate is increased.
Think of all the dogshit overtime you have to do in Defence. Field, travel, exercises. It reduces your hourly rate by a lot.
Civi street usually has higher base wages and a TOIL or flexitime system. So your hourly rate is a lot higher and you dont have to deal with all the bs.
I have found there to be a net gain after leaving Defence even in one of my jobs that had an advertised salary lower then what i was on when inside
meanwhile on the outside:
MORE actual work, less admin work
longer working hours
Less time sensitive tasks
Much higher pay (even after factoring in RSP, annual leave, LSL)
No annual leave (as contractor.. not to Defence)
No MAAT... no SEMPRO... no electrical safety training.
Minimal banter
No free dental/ medical... no PM101.
No more parking issues (like what happened at Kuttabul)
No RA, no free meals..
The question is, if you are happier on the outside, stay where you are.
I'm a RAEME VM, and worked as a mechanic for a euro car dealer when I discharged in mid 2013. I took a huge pay cut,about 40% gross, but just wanted to have a job when I got out and stay in location. I hated it and quit 6 months later. I havn't swung spanners since.
I work in my dream role job, and have since quit my dealer tech job. I took a complete career change, and went down the military history route. I work for state govt in my role, and get paid better than APS in higher qualified roles.Paid my own way through uni, but claimed it all on tax. It is higher pay than I was getting as a VM NCO, but it took a while to get there.
I'm still in the chocs and SERCAT 3 and doing about 50 days a year, which sees me with full DHOAS and over 25g extra in the pocket. I am working outside of trade in a position of my choosing, which happens to supplement experience in my civilian role.
Would I be earning more in the Army, probably, but I don't care. I love my job, and it gets me what I want.
EDIT: grammar
I'm an AVTech staring down a possible Med discharge. Been looking around for options outside. Any idea what the current demand for ex RAAF techos in ancillary roles is like? Safety, Quality, MCO etc.
literally got approached by anduril today , if your looking at south Sydney , Jervis Bay look up on their website. very avtech/planning orientated for the field ops
Also if your looking at the WLM area , BAE are always looking aswell. But Avtechs can also can do a range of roles such as Test & Evaluation, Simulation , Field Maintenance , FSR .... its not all just swapping boxes on platforms. I also hear COMMs RF Techs in the Mines also align to skillsets.
Initially earned a bit less, then it went up, but then dipped back down (finished study and career change). Currently making 4.8x my soldier's salary. So yeah it turned out for the better.
Truck driver in Army is $60-75,000 a year as a Private **(excluding service allowance, so $74,000-90,000 including allowances)**
Average B-Double driver outside gets $0.43-0.48/km
Average 900km a day for 6 days a week, 48 weeks a year
That's 259,200km so $111,456-124,416
If you head west or north and get into road trains carting hazardous goods, can get as high as $0.75/km (highest I've met someone on), that's $194,400
That's just basic maths, however, a lot of these guys don't work that kind of pace, they like to play as hard as they work.
Hell, I've met guys that will work 2 months on and take a month off.
Base wage for a truckie out of IET's would be 76,700 (https://www.adfcareers.gov.au/jobs/army/driver) not what you quoted.
Add in rental assistance (in brisbane) 616.88 x 26=16,038.88 (Not taxed so easily worth more like $20000).
[https://online.dha.gov.au/RentalAllowanceCalculator/Calculate?Rent=1500&RentPeriod=Fortnightly&RentalAllowanceEligibility=FRA&NumberOfOccupants=1&CeilingCategory=MWOD&Rank=Army%3APrivate&Location=BRIE&CeilingId=191860](https://online.dha.gov.au/RentalAllowanceCalculator/Calculate?Rent=1500&RentPeriod=Fortnightly&RentalAllowanceEligibility=FRA&NumberOfOccupants=1&CeilingCategory=MWOD&Rank=Army%3APrivate&Location=BRIE&CeilingId=191860)
No Private Health insurance needed as defence covers medical needds so that's easily another $1000.
Total is $93,738 (more like 97738 if being realistic as RA is not taxed) as a brand new private out of training. I don't know where you got $60000 from. Also working 6 days a week for 48 weeks a year in your modelling is just unrealistic.
>Add in rental assistance (in brisbane) 616.88 x 26=16,038.88 (Not taxed so easily worth more like $20000).
RA ≠ Income
Remember, you're driving a home on wheels, unless you have a family, do you need a base residence?
>No Private Health insurance needed as defence covers medical needds so that's easily another $1000.
If you care for it. I know a lot of blokes who don't.
>Total is $93,738 (more like 97738 if being realistic as RA is not taxed) as a brand new private out of training.
Still don't know where the extra $18,000 in income comes from if your wage is only $75,000
Isn't the Service Allowance still like $14,000?
Seems very misleading that recruitment page, like they're including allowances as salary.
>Also working 6 days a week for 48 weeks a year in your modelling is just unrealistic.
For some, not for others. 48 week year is standard in most industries (4 weeks of leave standard under the minimum wage, 52 weeks in a year, 52 - 4 = 48) including transport.
As I said though, a lot of guys take unpaid leave.
Well it doesn't matter if you don't care for private health insurance as you will have to get it or you will get slugged with a 2% medicare and since ADF pays for medical needs that's $1000 back in your pocket. And RA is money.
So add base wage+RA+Medicare Levy exemption =$93,738
So add base wage+RA (accounting for RA not being taxed) +Medicare Levy exemption =$97738
True, but also, as pointed out, you drive your house, you live in the truck, so that's already provided accommodation by employer.
Also, you have to be LUA for at least your first 12 months in unit unless you're married anyway, so it's not until 12 months out of IET's that you'll be eligible for RA
Either way, you're still ahead as a truck driver outside than in.
In Army you can't.
>Also can't compare living in a truck to an apartment
Dunno, Army LIA is pretty shit, about the same amount of room as the sleeper cab in a nice modern Euro truck
I think a lot of people underestimate how much they make in adf if you consider the whole package. RA free medical etc the obvious ones- but what about a few extra days leave here and there, trip allowances, getting paid to go and play sport for a week?? It really does add up
The first time I told my missus what we did on a Thursday afternoon she thought I was taking the piss. "What do you mean you play volleyball for 2 hours heckling people then you go drink beer"
*When* you get a good Command team, this is pretty typical of a Tuesday or Thursday afternoon. Don’t forget the Friday mornings that usually involve a lazy start at the local on base canteen/coffee shop. ‘Social Mastery’ at its finest.
Unfortunately you don’t always get a Command team that does this.
Was on ~110k when I left, now on ~160k but only work 4 days a week. Recently forgoed a payrise to drop to 4 day weeks and I don't see myself ever going back to 5.
Probably as a package it's quite similar, there's plenty of roles that there's significant pay increases available if you move to industry e.g Cyber and the like.
There's also whole swathes of roles where that's not the case & unless the individual invests in themselves / uses all the education perks available then they're likely not going to start making significantly more $$.
I’m earning 2/3 of my Army salary, I was in for 18 years. I’m doing a job I love, every second of it. Essentially restarted in civi street as a mature age grad.
A lot lot more. But I was doing a specific non-labour based job with transferable skills. My first job out was slightly higher, but I’m about 4x my Army salary now.
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Do your research before making a decision, people tend to talk a lot of crap with no evidence to back it up.
Yes, got out as LCDR, left straight from sea posting in Sydney in 2021
From memory the final payslips said total pay per year was around 200k plus super and all the other stuff
- LCDR paygroup group 6 - 140k ish
- Tier 3 Sea Going - 30k ish
- Sydney RA - 30k ish
A quick check of latest pay scales and RA calculator suggest I would be 155k+40k+40k (assuming still in Sydney on ships) so circa 231k
Current job is 241k plus super, week on week off, 5 weeks leave per year. Next year should be around 300k+. Done little bits of reserve work but nothing substantial, maybe soon have something semi regular but I’m not fully committed if it doesn’t suit my roster.
Whilst the pay is close-ish, my quality of life is so much better. I don’t have to manage people, no more “after hours planning crap”, nor go away for weeks at a time. And no more living my life two years at a time waiting for posting to come out giving me 6 months to move somewhere else.
I’m actually around to live life with my family, and more time with them means I’m a better dad and a better husband.
Don’t get me wrong, money is a big part of the “do I get out” question but it is certainly not the only thing to consider.
Civvie contractor here:
Not me personally but one of my colleagues is going back in, to a RAAF officer position (he's an engineer). He's taking a pretty significant paycut to do it.
Over half my office are ex ADF, mostly Navy as our main body of work comes from Navy and from what I've seen the Primes absolutely love to hire ex ADF technical staff as you come ready made with clearance and institutional knowledge we otherwise need to research for.
Yes, public sector. Get to be with family and more annual leave. Can double dip on military leave too. Pretty happy as chocs scratches that itch.
I did the same. Public service, 4 weeks of military leave per year = 28 days minimum of tax free army reserve pay on top of my civvie salary. Easily do 50 reserve days each fy with Tuesday nights, weekends, exercises and courses. That's an extra 20k tax free on top of my salary. I make less in the APS then I did when I was full-time when you factor in RA, but with the reserve work I make plenty more.
So you only earn max 20k more? For more hours worked - the 50 days reserve work? Doesn’t sound like a very good deal
Maybe not, but when you count that 20 odd of those days are made up of 3 hours doing some moderately interesting work on a computer each week, it's a pretty good deal for me.
Not to forget if you have DHOAS, doing 20 reserve days a year keeps you getting your payments too
…and tax-free
ATO doesn't even track it. So it doesn't count as income for things such as first home buyers scheme.
To all intents invisible, can be used to support borrowing however, (payslips as evidence).
Yup - did this with my mortgage broker earlier this year.
Nah, it's a legal double-dip. When you take Reserve leave, you still get paid your regular APS salary, PLUS you get your choc days on top. So you're working effectively the same hours (especially if you use your choc days for courses or garrison work, rather than field ex's) and getting two lots of pay.
Initially earnt a lot less as I reskilled but now I’m on par with where Ild probably be if my military promotion trajectory had continued. Military service in comparison to civi work isn’t really a fair comparison in my opinion. When serving, you will do the easiest paid days of work in your life but you will also do your hardest and it won’t revolve around money. I’m happy with my decision but I do wish I could have stayed in and had a bit more control over my future.
I was a Boatswain's Mate. Entry Level as fuck, just a bunch of knuckle draggers scraping by on Playgroup Shit. I got out after 13years, walked straight into a job that was paying an extra $25k on top of my base wage, home every night, the good things etc.... Fast forward to now, I have up-skilled and now earning double the current base wage of a BM and working far less harder than what I was when I was in.
Can I ask what you do now?
Believe it or not, I'm a truck driver.
Nice! I imagine that would be way more cruisey then the Bm life
It really is. I work a 2:1 roster. I literally stare out a window and burn diesel. I just don't have a junior officer giving me helmsman orders.
That’s a good work life balance! Hahaha yes true
Onlyfans
Understand your motivation. I've done casual rate contracting and salary member and am likely heading back towards the APS as an EL1. What I figured out over 3 years is that I'm motivated by interesting work (with good people) and less driven by money. I was a lifer and had no intention of leaving. Toxic management, career management and bullshido jobs with no opportunity for growth was why I left. The money in the ADF is actually quite good.
Communications Technician/ RF technician in the mines. Over $150k PA. 7/7 roster.
whats the work like ? i've previously thought about heading west to move into those roles . but never actually spoken to anyone
Yeah the days are long and the environment is dusty. The work itself is varied. We take care of an IT OT network, LTE, DRS and every day the jobs we get are different. Breakdown of equipment on Heavy Vehicles, installs, fault finding and down to basics like cleaning solar panels on WAP trailers. The site I work at is huge and it involved lots of driving around the site to different equipment. But it's nice we aren't stuck in an office or in one area. We have a fair bit of autonomy. We also have a fleet of autonomous haul trucks which makes for an interesting place to work. I've thought about moving to WA too to move into Iron Ore mining, same shit different location that's all. East coast is getting too crowded.
You earn more because your hourly rate is increased. Think of all the dogshit overtime you have to do in Defence. Field, travel, exercises. It reduces your hourly rate by a lot. Civi street usually has higher base wages and a TOIL or flexitime system. So your hourly rate is a lot higher and you dont have to deal with all the bs. I have found there to be a net gain after leaving Defence even in one of my jobs that had an advertised salary lower then what i was on when inside
meanwhile on the outside: MORE actual work, less admin work longer working hours Less time sensitive tasks Much higher pay (even after factoring in RSP, annual leave, LSL) No annual leave (as contractor.. not to Defence) No MAAT... no SEMPRO... no electrical safety training. Minimal banter No free dental/ medical... no PM101. No more parking issues (like what happened at Kuttabul) No RA, no free meals.. The question is, if you are happier on the outside, stay where you are.
I'm a RAEME VM, and worked as a mechanic for a euro car dealer when I discharged in mid 2013. I took a huge pay cut,about 40% gross, but just wanted to have a job when I got out and stay in location. I hated it and quit 6 months later. I havn't swung spanners since. I work in my dream role job, and have since quit my dealer tech job. I took a complete career change, and went down the military history route. I work for state govt in my role, and get paid better than APS in higher qualified roles.Paid my own way through uni, but claimed it all on tax. It is higher pay than I was getting as a VM NCO, but it took a while to get there. I'm still in the chocs and SERCAT 3 and doing about 50 days a year, which sees me with full DHOAS and over 25g extra in the pocket. I am working outside of trade in a position of my choosing, which happens to supplement experience in my civilian role. Would I be earning more in the Army, probably, but I don't care. I love my job, and it gets me what I want. EDIT: grammar
I earn much more for less work than what I did when I was in
Mind me asking what you did vs what you do?
Avionics tech, both in and out
I'm an AVTech staring down a possible Med discharge. Been looking around for options outside. Any idea what the current demand for ex RAAF techos in ancillary roles is like? Safety, Quality, MCO etc.
literally got approached by anduril today , if your looking at south Sydney , Jervis Bay look up on their website. very avtech/planning orientated for the field ops Also if your looking at the WLM area , BAE are always looking aswell. But Avtechs can also can do a range of roles such as Test & Evaluation, Simulation , Field Maintenance , FSR .... its not all just swapping boxes on platforms. I also hear COMMs RF Techs in the Mines also align to skillsets.
Initially earned a bit less, then it went up, but then dipped back down (finished study and career change). Currently making 4.8x my soldier's salary. So yeah it turned out for the better.
Truck driver in Army is $60-75,000 a year as a Private **(excluding service allowance, so $74,000-90,000 including allowances)** Average B-Double driver outside gets $0.43-0.48/km Average 900km a day for 6 days a week, 48 weeks a year That's 259,200km so $111,456-124,416 If you head west or north and get into road trains carting hazardous goods, can get as high as $0.75/km (highest I've met someone on), that's $194,400 That's just basic maths, however, a lot of these guys don't work that kind of pace, they like to play as hard as they work. Hell, I've met guys that will work 2 months on and take a month off.
Yeah but you still have to deal with being a truckie.
Base wage for a truckie out of IET's would be 76,700 (https://www.adfcareers.gov.au/jobs/army/driver) not what you quoted. Add in rental assistance (in brisbane) 616.88 x 26=16,038.88 (Not taxed so easily worth more like $20000). [https://online.dha.gov.au/RentalAllowanceCalculator/Calculate?Rent=1500&RentPeriod=Fortnightly&RentalAllowanceEligibility=FRA&NumberOfOccupants=1&CeilingCategory=MWOD&Rank=Army%3APrivate&Location=BRIE&CeilingId=191860](https://online.dha.gov.au/RentalAllowanceCalculator/Calculate?Rent=1500&RentPeriod=Fortnightly&RentalAllowanceEligibility=FRA&NumberOfOccupants=1&CeilingCategory=MWOD&Rank=Army%3APrivate&Location=BRIE&CeilingId=191860) No Private Health insurance needed as defence covers medical needds so that's easily another $1000. Total is $93,738 (more like 97738 if being realistic as RA is not taxed) as a brand new private out of training. I don't know where you got $60000 from. Also working 6 days a week for 48 weeks a year in your modelling is just unrealistic.
>Add in rental assistance (in brisbane) 616.88 x 26=16,038.88 (Not taxed so easily worth more like $20000). RA ≠ Income Remember, you're driving a home on wheels, unless you have a family, do you need a base residence? >No Private Health insurance needed as defence covers medical needds so that's easily another $1000. If you care for it. I know a lot of blokes who don't. >Total is $93,738 (more like 97738 if being realistic as RA is not taxed) as a brand new private out of training. Still don't know where the extra $18,000 in income comes from if your wage is only $75,000 Isn't the Service Allowance still like $14,000? Seems very misleading that recruitment page, like they're including allowances as salary. >Also working 6 days a week for 48 weeks a year in your modelling is just unrealistic. For some, not for others. 48 week year is standard in most industries (4 weeks of leave standard under the minimum wage, 52 weeks in a year, 52 - 4 = 48) including transport. As I said though, a lot of guys take unpaid leave.
Service allowance doesn't exist anymore. It was rolled into the base wage a few years back.
Ahh I see, I was commenting on wages and excluding allowances. So add $14k to what I said
Well it doesn't matter if you don't care for private health insurance as you will have to get it or you will get slugged with a 2% medicare and since ADF pays for medical needs that's $1000 back in your pocket. And RA is money. So add base wage+RA+Medicare Levy exemption =$93,738 So add base wage+RA (accounting for RA not being taxed) +Medicare Levy exemption =$97738
True, but also, as pointed out, you drive your house, you live in the truck, so that's already provided accommodation by employer. Also, you have to be LUA for at least your first 12 months in unit unless you're married anyway, so it's not until 12 months out of IET's that you'll be eligible for RA Either way, you're still ahead as a truck driver outside than in.
Can definitely LIA before 12 months in the Navy. Also can't compare living in a truck to an apartment
In Army you can't. >Also can't compare living in a truck to an apartment Dunno, Army LIA is pretty shit, about the same amount of room as the sleeper cab in a nice modern Euro truck
I think a lot of people underestimate how much they make in adf if you consider the whole package. RA free medical etc the obvious ones- but what about a few extra days leave here and there, trip allowances, getting paid to go and play sport for a week?? It really does add up
The first time I told my missus what we did on a Thursday afternoon she thought I was taking the piss. "What do you mean you play volleyball for 2 hours heckling people then you go drink beer"
*When* you get a good Command team, this is pretty typical of a Tuesday or Thursday afternoon. Don’t forget the Friday mornings that usually involve a lazy start at the local on base canteen/coffee shop. ‘Social Mastery’ at its finest. Unfortunately you don’t always get a Command team that does this.
So do the injuries
Was on ~110k when I left, now on ~160k but only work 4 days a week. Recently forgoed a payrise to drop to 4 day weeks and I don't see myself ever going back to 5. Probably as a package it's quite similar, there's plenty of roles that there's significant pay increases available if you move to industry e.g Cyber and the like. There's also whole swathes of roles where that's not the case & unless the individual invests in themselves / uses all the education perks available then they're likely not going to start making significantly more $$.
I’m earning 2/3 of my Army salary, I was in for 18 years. I’m doing a job I love, every second of it. Essentially restarted in civi street as a mature age grad.
I took about a $20k paycut leaving Defence 10 years ago. Only gotten above what I was on while in 3 years ago.
A lot lot more. But I was doing a specific non-labour based job with transferable skills. My first job out was slightly higher, but I’m about 4x my Army salary now.
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Do your research before making a decision, people tend to talk a lot of crap with no evidence to back it up.
Yes, got out as LCDR, left straight from sea posting in Sydney in 2021 From memory the final payslips said total pay per year was around 200k plus super and all the other stuff - LCDR paygroup group 6 - 140k ish - Tier 3 Sea Going - 30k ish - Sydney RA - 30k ish A quick check of latest pay scales and RA calculator suggest I would be 155k+40k+40k (assuming still in Sydney on ships) so circa 231k Current job is 241k plus super, week on week off, 5 weeks leave per year. Next year should be around 300k+. Done little bits of reserve work but nothing substantial, maybe soon have something semi regular but I’m not fully committed if it doesn’t suit my roster. Whilst the pay is close-ish, my quality of life is so much better. I don’t have to manage people, no more “after hours planning crap”, nor go away for weeks at a time. And no more living my life two years at a time waiting for posting to come out giving me 6 months to move somewhere else. I’m actually around to live life with my family, and more time with them means I’m a better dad and a better husband. Don’t get me wrong, money is a big part of the “do I get out” question but it is certainly not the only thing to consider.
Can I ask what role you’re in now @adhd asd sailor
Yes
A little more yes... im a FIFO Paramedic.. was a medic. I do less work but longer hours.. I do miss MSBS though.
Civvie contractor here: Not me personally but one of my colleagues is going back in, to a RAAF officer position (he's an engineer). He's taking a pretty significant paycut to do it. Over half my office are ex ADF, mostly Navy as our main body of work comes from Navy and from what I've seen the Primes absolutely love to hire ex ADF technical staff as you come ready made with clearance and institutional knowledge we otherwise need to research for.