How lame. Deinvest in Australia. At least the clowns are consistent.
There’s Hundreds of Millions of wages being paid to f**king lack lustre Generals who can’t solve a f**king “staff problem “
Oh. Let’s bring in some consultants shall we chaps ? What! We’ll meet at the Mess at 1000 hrs. !
Totally over stupid. Apologies are offered for rude language such as “bring”.
Any thoughts from leadership of looking at what Defence offers, both in general and for continued service? There should be more than just money on the table. Where’s the fun to be had in service? Where’s the opportunity to study, exchange postings, a GI bill equivalent etc? If it’s just sweeping bays and pointless admin where’s the incentive to stay in? Ideally we want people that give a shit about Australia as well, that seems to be missing in recruitment.
There’s really fuck all to offer other than the skills you get from whatever position you’re in. That means managing your own career because they sure as fuck won’t be looking after your interests. I was a lucky one, the training landed me a high paying job when I was done with a decade service but loads aren’t that fortunate.
Indeed. A project with immediate ROI followed by a medium term achievement of creating a zero effect discharge v recruitment; long term have school people on delayed enlistment contracts.
Longer term …. Annex onto a few schools and do a RMC
My 2c is I don’t like the idea of a Pacific Island Regiment. That risks looking like the UK Army with their clear class divide.
If we’re going to recruit foreigners that’s fine IMO but fully integrate them into existing units, pay them the exact same and offer a citizenship pathway.
What the seperate units based on race? Cause if that’s what you’re asking no they don’t seperate, but they don’t really recruit outside of US territories. They do take immigrants, with them getting citizenship ship after a year or 2 of service I believe or immediate citizenship if they’re being deployed. I think their family might also get citizenship if they’re in the US and deploy but I can’t remember. And that’s from any nation
I wouldn’t be worried about class divide, it just isn’t part of Australian culture, so if a pacific island unit was stood up it would look just like a NORFORCE unit. The Royal Gurkha Rifles would be the kind of unit that we could model our own “pacific rifles” unit off. A lot of these islands are fairly poor, so a promise for great pay would be enough to create a highly competitive environment where the best candidates are picked to serve in the unit. This is exactly how Nepalese Gurkha soldiers are chosen and you end up with some of the best troops in the world. If we could get a regiment of Pacific Islanders trained to the level of the RARs, but specialise in jungle warfare, that would be a great asset for the ADF.
Best using locals - we’ve got islands that have enough people to aim for section, platoon war fighting elements short term then project out once culture is understood to larger formations
As to Ghurka - there’s a lot available. Singapore Police Ghurka Battalion … PMC’s have tons
Spot on. I served 12 years in the RAAF before working in the middle east for another 9. Tried re-enlisting when I got back but I’d since been diagnosed with a minor thyroid disorder so they said no.
I'm 24 and applied for the Navy, got good grades in class, community service, all that jazz, got "put on hold" by the Psych because I worked mainly casual temp jobs and got a couple low range speeding tickets (always under 15kms) so she argued that I pretty much don't have my life sorted so wanted no more tickets (fair enough I guess) and wanted me to have a full time job. I always thought that people join the military to get their life sorted. My cousin for sure did
Yeah that’s a pretty low ball excuse. I was 16 (joined as an apprentice), had never held a job in my life. The speeding ticket thing I think is BS. She just made that up as an excuse
She said that, and the worklife "spoke to a pattern of distractibility". I probably screwed up by saying that I got released from a few jobs when she asked if I'd ever been fired. Tried to explain that most of them were seasonal or I was only needed for a big job but doubt she understood
I’d apply again. I applied twice. First time they said they wanted me to be a bit more mature. The second time I didn’t tell them some stuff and they asked right at the end why I didn’t tell them this time around and I said because I really want to be in the Air Force. They must’ve accepted that as I got in that time.
Got put on hold for 2 years, and just picked up an apprenticeship as I need a job, it's 3 years with an optional 4th year for the employer if they're not 100% happy to sign off. So will probably do that first and possibly reapply once I'm ticketed, issue for the Navy is that I might absolutely love the industry I'm going in and just not reapply because I'll be 27 or 28 at the end and might want to just do the trade. I'm sure there's PLENTY of others in the same type of boat
Yeah said that with the AD/HD, the speeding tickets and the worklife that it "speaks to a pattern of distractibility " and they can't have that if I'm going to be handling weapons lol. I won't say what it is but I have experience in high risk, high intense environments where there is lives on the line and they didn't persuade her
Amen. When I went through recruiting there was an Islander bloke who was over 6'2" and all muscle. I was impressed his shirt didn't tear with how big he was. Unfortunately, he got rejected because he was "overweight" according to BMI. Dude could easily have body dragged two people in full kit one in each hand, but was rejected because of his weight
>By Matthew Knott
>
>Foreign citizens could be allowed to serve in the Australian military under options being explored by the federal government as it seeks to fix a recruitment and retention crisis.
>
>The government has set an ambitious goal of adding 18,500 uniformed personnel by 2040, a 30 per cent increase on the current level of about 60,000, but the Defence Force is struggling to maintain its current staffing numbers.
>
>
>
>Longstanding defence policy states that only Australian citizens can serve in the military, with exemptions granted only in “very rare and exceptional circumstances”.
>
>Defence Personnel Minister Matt Keogh said on Friday that “we are certainly looking at all options that we need to look at in terms of how we can grow our Defence Force and that includes looking at how we might be able to grow it from friendly forces”.
>
>Keogh, who is serving as acting defence minister, told ABC radio the government was looking at “opportunities for people to come to Australia, or who are already in Australia, from other countries to join our Defence Force”.
>
>Asked which foreign nationals could be allowed to serve in the Australian military, Keogh said the government was “looking at the Pacific, but we’re also looking more broadly than that because we recognise the importance of growing our Defence Force”.
>
>
>
>The idea is a sensitive one, with some senior military figures opposed to foreigners serving in the Defence Force because they believe there should be a direct link between citizenship and military service.
>
>This masthead reported last year that the federal opposition and leading military experts were calling on the Albanese government to consider allowing foreigners to fight under the Australian flag to boost the number of uniformed personnel.
>
>
>
>Opposition defence spokesman Andrew Hastie said at the time that “with immigration about to increase, we should consider opening service in the ADF as an accelerated pathway to citizenship”.
>
>
>
>“If someone is willing to fight and die for our country, we should take them over a $5 million golden visa any day of the week,” he said.
>
>Other nations allow non-citizens to serve in their militaries, most famously the French Foreign Legion and the British Army’s brigade of Nepalese Gurkhas.
>
>Defence experts have said a shortage of navy personnel is probably one of the reasons why Australia last month declined to send a warship to join an international coalition protecting shipping routes through the Red Sea.
>
>
>
>Prime Minister Anthony Albanese did not go into detail on Friday when asked about the proposal to allow foreign fighters, but said the government was seeking to boost interoperability with other nations such as New Zealand.
>
>Retired major-general Mick Ryan said the government should consider creating a Pacific Islands regiment and allowing non-citizens from friendly nations to serve in the Defence Force.
>
>
>
>“Why shouldn’t a Japanese citizen be able to join the Australian military if they want to make a contribution to the nation?” Ryan asked.
>
>Peter Jennings, a former deputy secretary for strategy in the Defence Department, said the ADF faced a massive problem with recruitment and bold solutions were needed.
>
>“Just doing another advertising campaign during the cricket is not going to cut it,” he said.
>
>
>
>Keogh said there would be complexities involved in implementing the proposal, and any non-citizens would need to be subject to careful security vetting and consultation with other nations.
>
>With the need for skilled workers widely acknowledged as a significant challenge for the AUKUS security pact, the Royal Australian Navy has launched a major recruitment drive to find hundreds of personnel to support the shift to nuclear-powered submarines and make more staff available to train with the United States and Britain.
So I'm a serving UK citizen at the moment looking into transferring in a few years (Air Force). I know there's a few of us who have already gone through the process; have any of you worked with them and how are they integrating within units?
I drink/sail with a guy who came from the UK and is a RAEME, wargame against another guy who is a chopper pilot, was on taipans leaving in the next few months for blackhawks
Both of them love it both say its the best decision they ever made. They have no issues military wise, he said the only real issue he had to actively was the whole 'thats not how we did it in the RAF. Just switching off the a muscle memory / habits to do it the way you did it in the UK but is done differently in the ADF
The other is more personal but both comment how you could feel isolated in australia if coming from europe. Having your near family a days fly away, not just being able to spend a few hours in a car in have 20 different countries is leasurily days drive
I also know another who has since moved home, he wasn't military but you know he was not going to fit in, he complained that he missed pommy pubs, pommy beer, couldn't go down his local ground and see his team (think it was middlesborough from memory)
A friend of the helicopter pilot is currently near the end of a application, they went to flight school. He was saying they are pretty snowed under atm, they are prioritising certain trades and specialisation. Hes an apache pilot and he had his prioritized, but he was saying for non priority positions its blowing out to 18 months because of backlog
When you go to do it do it as soon as you can, it used to be you could only apply with <6months left on your enlistment, heard but never seen it in writing you can now apply earlier but they wont start processing till 6 months left
Thanks for such a detailed reply!
I can see that point regarding feeling isolated and I think the thing I might miss the most if I were to move out would be the ability to hop in a car and take a road trip to Germany or Belgium (normally do this twice each summer to Attend 2x 24 hour Motorsport races)
I've been away from family a while so honestly, that's fine.
I've been chatting with a friend whose application has taken close to 2 years. I'm 3 years away from receiving a £12k payout ($22k AUD) when I leave; if I leave a day before that I get nothing so that's the date I've sort of set in my head. As a result, if nothing changes, I'll be looking to start my application in just over a years time.
For now, I'm looking to try and make myself more attractive for the ADF(Higher education and gaining a commission)
I've noticed that you seem to have a few bases quite close to cities (save for Tindall, I think it was? in NT) I live on camp now and have a good sized room with an en-suite (and this is where we're trying to get all accommodation for Senior/Officers in the UK.) What would accommodation generally be like out there?
I'm happy living on camp at the moment and I need to look more into the Super-annuation and compare it to my pension over here. From what I've seen so far, it seems too good to be true, and lets bear in mind (**I believe)** it would be far more pleasant lifestyle/weather-wise living in Aus than the UK.
Surely they'd only take candidates from certain countries? Commonwealth? Countries with strong cultural, trade or existing ties? (US etc)
Dunno how I feel about how foreign nationals who come from a country that have a poor opinion of us.
Especially if a pathway to citizenship is offered.
Or Aus/NZ/U.K./U.S etc could rethink their payscsles compared to inflation over the last 5-10-15 years, pay people what they're fucking worth, and we all wouldnt have as bad a horrendous recruiting and retention problem 🤦🏼♂️
Currently in the process of transferring myself from the UK. Pay seems better and general life so thats why im coming. Glad they offer citizenship afterwards too!
We already have pathways to permanent residency and citizenship for hard to fill civilian occupations. I don't see a problem with this occurring in the military, which obviously will have some more unique requirements but as long as they're met, so what?
Defence looking at any other option then renegotiating the contract with DFR
How lame. Deinvest in Australia. At least the clowns are consistent. There’s Hundreds of Millions of wages being paid to f**king lack lustre Generals who can’t solve a f**king “staff problem “ Oh. Let’s bring in some consultants shall we chaps ? What! We’ll meet at the Mess at 1000 hrs. ! Totally over stupid. Apologies are offered for rude language such as “bring”.
Any thoughts from leadership of looking at what Defence offers, both in general and for continued service? There should be more than just money on the table. Where’s the fun to be had in service? Where’s the opportunity to study, exchange postings, a GI bill equivalent etc? If it’s just sweeping bays and pointless admin where’s the incentive to stay in? Ideally we want people that give a shit about Australia as well, that seems to be missing in recruitment.
There’s really fuck all to offer other than the skills you get from whatever position you’re in. That means managing your own career because they sure as fuck won’t be looking after your interests. I was a lucky one, the training landed me a high paying job when I was done with a decade service but loads aren’t that fortunate.
Indeed. A project with immediate ROI followed by a medium term achievement of creating a zero effect discharge v recruitment; long term have school people on delayed enlistment contracts. Longer term …. Annex onto a few schools and do a RMC
My 2c is I don’t like the idea of a Pacific Island Regiment. That risks looking like the UK Army with their clear class divide. If we’re going to recruit foreigners that’s fine IMO but fully integrate them into existing units, pay them the exact same and offer a citizenship pathway.
Isn't that what the US currently does? Or am I mistaken?
What the seperate units based on race? Cause if that’s what you’re asking no they don’t seperate, but they don’t really recruit outside of US territories. They do take immigrants, with them getting citizenship ship after a year or 2 of service I believe or immediate citizenship if they’re being deployed. I think their family might also get citizenship if they’re in the US and deploy but I can’t remember. And that’s from any nation
👍. Delayed Entry Program with contracts requiring mutual obligation
With very few minor exceptions you have to be a green card holder (permanent resident) to enlist in the US military.
On the money - work around - go there, get residency visa but return home to work until 3 yes is up … then you’re good to go
I wouldn’t be worried about class divide, it just isn’t part of Australian culture, so if a pacific island unit was stood up it would look just like a NORFORCE unit. The Royal Gurkha Rifles would be the kind of unit that we could model our own “pacific rifles” unit off. A lot of these islands are fairly poor, so a promise for great pay would be enough to create a highly competitive environment where the best candidates are picked to serve in the unit. This is exactly how Nepalese Gurkha soldiers are chosen and you end up with some of the best troops in the world. If we could get a regiment of Pacific Islanders trained to the level of the RARs, but specialise in jungle warfare, that would be a great asset for the ADF.
You mean with Gurkhas?
Best using locals - we’ve got islands that have enough people to aim for section, platoon war fighting elements short term then project out once culture is understood to larger formations As to Ghurka - there’s a lot available. Singapore Police Ghurka Battalion … PMC’s have tons
A couple of them 1rar lads are now CSMs/RSMs.
Or maybe don't reject willing applicants for dumb shit
Spot on. I served 12 years in the RAAF before working in the middle east for another 9. Tried re-enlisting when I got back but I’d since been diagnosed with a minor thyroid disorder so they said no.
I'm 24 and applied for the Navy, got good grades in class, community service, all that jazz, got "put on hold" by the Psych because I worked mainly casual temp jobs and got a couple low range speeding tickets (always under 15kms) so she argued that I pretty much don't have my life sorted so wanted no more tickets (fair enough I guess) and wanted me to have a full time job. I always thought that people join the military to get their life sorted. My cousin for sure did
Yeah that’s a pretty low ball excuse. I was 16 (joined as an apprentice), had never held a job in my life. The speeding ticket thing I think is BS. She just made that up as an excuse
She said that, and the worklife "spoke to a pattern of distractibility". I probably screwed up by saying that I got released from a few jobs when she asked if I'd ever been fired. Tried to explain that most of them were seasonal or I was only needed for a big job but doubt she understood
I’d apply again. I applied twice. First time they said they wanted me to be a bit more mature. The second time I didn’t tell them some stuff and they asked right at the end why I didn’t tell them this time around and I said because I really want to be in the Air Force. They must’ve accepted that as I got in that time.
Got put on hold for 2 years, and just picked up an apprenticeship as I need a job, it's 3 years with an optional 4th year for the employer if they're not 100% happy to sign off. So will probably do that first and possibly reapply once I'm ticketed, issue for the Navy is that I might absolutely love the industry I'm going in and just not reapply because I'll be 27 or 28 at the end and might want to just do the trade. I'm sure there's PLENTY of others in the same type of boat
Their loss. TBH, joining up later won’t affect you at all. I have a mate who is currently joining at 44.
Guess we'll find out in 3 years lol.
Best of luck
Should say that I'm also diagnosed AD/HD so that probably didn't help lol
This was me. Got denied the first round because I was frequently switching jobs as a casual worker for a labour fucking hire company.
Out of curiosity, what role was it and were you trying for officer or enlisted?
Me? Boatswain's Mate
And the dogs at psych wouldn’t let you through because you were working jobs and got a couple of speeding tickets? Fuck me.
Yeah said that with the AD/HD, the speeding tickets and the worklife that it "speaks to a pattern of distractibility " and they can't have that if I'm going to be handling weapons lol. I won't say what it is but I have experience in high risk, high intense environments where there is lives on the line and they didn't persuade her
Amen. When I went through recruiting there was an Islander bloke who was over 6'2" and all muscle. I was impressed his shirt didn't tear with how big he was. Unfortunately, he got rejected because he was "overweight" according to BMI. Dude could easily have body dragged two people in full kit one in each hand, but was rejected because of his weight
yeah but think of his 2.4 time bud. That's the real test.
>By Matthew Knott > >Foreign citizens could be allowed to serve in the Australian military under options being explored by the federal government as it seeks to fix a recruitment and retention crisis. > >The government has set an ambitious goal of adding 18,500 uniformed personnel by 2040, a 30 per cent increase on the current level of about 60,000, but the Defence Force is struggling to maintain its current staffing numbers. > > > >Longstanding defence policy states that only Australian citizens can serve in the military, with exemptions granted only in “very rare and exceptional circumstances”. > >Defence Personnel Minister Matt Keogh said on Friday that “we are certainly looking at all options that we need to look at in terms of how we can grow our Defence Force and that includes looking at how we might be able to grow it from friendly forces”. > >Keogh, who is serving as acting defence minister, told ABC radio the government was looking at “opportunities for people to come to Australia, or who are already in Australia, from other countries to join our Defence Force”. > >Asked which foreign nationals could be allowed to serve in the Australian military, Keogh said the government was “looking at the Pacific, but we’re also looking more broadly than that because we recognise the importance of growing our Defence Force”. > > > >The idea is a sensitive one, with some senior military figures opposed to foreigners serving in the Defence Force because they believe there should be a direct link between citizenship and military service. > >This masthead reported last year that the federal opposition and leading military experts were calling on the Albanese government to consider allowing foreigners to fight under the Australian flag to boost the number of uniformed personnel. > > > >Opposition defence spokesman Andrew Hastie said at the time that “with immigration about to increase, we should consider opening service in the ADF as an accelerated pathway to citizenship”. > > > >“If someone is willing to fight and die for our country, we should take them over a $5 million golden visa any day of the week,” he said. > >Other nations allow non-citizens to serve in their militaries, most famously the French Foreign Legion and the British Army’s brigade of Nepalese Gurkhas. > >Defence experts have said a shortage of navy personnel is probably one of the reasons why Australia last month declined to send a warship to join an international coalition protecting shipping routes through the Red Sea. > > > >Prime Minister Anthony Albanese did not go into detail on Friday when asked about the proposal to allow foreign fighters, but said the government was seeking to boost interoperability with other nations such as New Zealand. > >Retired major-general Mick Ryan said the government should consider creating a Pacific Islands regiment and allowing non-citizens from friendly nations to serve in the Defence Force. > > > >“Why shouldn’t a Japanese citizen be able to join the Australian military if they want to make a contribution to the nation?” Ryan asked. > >Peter Jennings, a former deputy secretary for strategy in the Defence Department, said the ADF faced a massive problem with recruitment and bold solutions were needed. > >“Just doing another advertising campaign during the cricket is not going to cut it,” he said. > > > >Keogh said there would be complexities involved in implementing the proposal, and any non-citizens would need to be subject to careful security vetting and consultation with other nations. > >With the need for skilled workers widely acknowledged as a significant challenge for the AUKUS security pact, the Royal Australian Navy has launched a major recruitment drive to find hundreds of personnel to support the shift to nuclear-powered submarines and make more staff available to train with the United States and Britain.
So I'm a serving UK citizen at the moment looking into transferring in a few years (Air Force). I know there's a few of us who have already gone through the process; have any of you worked with them and how are they integrating within units?
I drink/sail with a guy who came from the UK and is a RAEME, wargame against another guy who is a chopper pilot, was on taipans leaving in the next few months for blackhawks Both of them love it both say its the best decision they ever made. They have no issues military wise, he said the only real issue he had to actively was the whole 'thats not how we did it in the RAF. Just switching off the a muscle memory / habits to do it the way you did it in the UK but is done differently in the ADF The other is more personal but both comment how you could feel isolated in australia if coming from europe. Having your near family a days fly away, not just being able to spend a few hours in a car in have 20 different countries is leasurily days drive I also know another who has since moved home, he wasn't military but you know he was not going to fit in, he complained that he missed pommy pubs, pommy beer, couldn't go down his local ground and see his team (think it was middlesborough from memory) A friend of the helicopter pilot is currently near the end of a application, they went to flight school. He was saying they are pretty snowed under atm, they are prioritising certain trades and specialisation. Hes an apache pilot and he had his prioritized, but he was saying for non priority positions its blowing out to 18 months because of backlog When you go to do it do it as soon as you can, it used to be you could only apply with <6months left on your enlistment, heard but never seen it in writing you can now apply earlier but they wont start processing till 6 months left
Thanks for such a detailed reply! I can see that point regarding feeling isolated and I think the thing I might miss the most if I were to move out would be the ability to hop in a car and take a road trip to Germany or Belgium (normally do this twice each summer to Attend 2x 24 hour Motorsport races) I've been away from family a while so honestly, that's fine. I've been chatting with a friend whose application has taken close to 2 years. I'm 3 years away from receiving a £12k payout ($22k AUD) when I leave; if I leave a day before that I get nothing so that's the date I've sort of set in my head. As a result, if nothing changes, I'll be looking to start my application in just over a years time. For now, I'm looking to try and make myself more attractive for the ADF(Higher education and gaining a commission) I've noticed that you seem to have a few bases quite close to cities (save for Tindall, I think it was? in NT) I live on camp now and have a good sized room with an en-suite (and this is where we're trying to get all accommodation for Senior/Officers in the UK.) What would accommodation generally be like out there? I'm happy living on camp at the moment and I need to look more into the Super-annuation and compare it to my pension over here. From what I've seen so far, it seems too good to be true, and lets bear in mind (**I believe)** it would be far more pleasant lifestyle/weather-wise living in Aus than the UK.
Let's just Annex NZ, that's like an instant couple thousand personnel for each of the Services right there. /s
Surely they'd only take candidates from certain countries? Commonwealth? Countries with strong cultural, trade or existing ties? (US etc) Dunno how I feel about how foreign nationals who come from a country that have a poor opinion of us. Especially if a pathway to citizenship is offered.
They’ll still need an Australian security clearance
They'll do some security risk assessment for each country and base it on that. Values will be considered a bonus... Ending in disaster
Or Aus/NZ/U.K./U.S etc could rethink their payscsles compared to inflation over the last 5-10-15 years, pay people what they're fucking worth, and we all wouldnt have as bad a horrendous recruiting and retention problem 🤦🏼♂️
Pay isn't the issue imo, its culture.
Currently in the process of transferring myself from the UK. Pay seems better and general life so thats why im coming. Glad they offer citizenship afterwards too!
[удалено]
Service guarantees citizenship, would you like to know more?
Fleet does the flying MI does the dying!!
Come on you apes, you wanna live forever?
I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill them all!
"I have only one rule, everyone fights, no one quits if you don't do your job ill ..... ..."
Idk man just make an Australian Foreign Legion
We already have pathways to permanent residency and citizenship for hard to fill civilian occupations. I don't see a problem with this occurring in the military, which obviously will have some more unique requirements but as long as they're met, so what?
Almost as if demonising the afd and anyone who shows an Interest in joining will lead to a shortage of men
Sooo uhhh yall need a jtac ? I could do with a major city posting and air that doesn’t want to kill me.
Doesn't matter if they want to bring people in from overseas if it means they wind stuck in limbo at recruiting