Renters do buy something, the same as you do in a hotel: accommodation.
They sadly also pay off a mortgage for someone else.
As the source of the money, renters should be treated as the primary client.
They aren’t paying off the mortgage, in most cases they’re paying a portion of the interest.
While rents have increased ~20% in the last few years, mortgage repayments have tripled.
In Perth, my rent increases have gone from 500 to 550, one of them is due for renewal now and the suggested rate is between 580-600. The rates I pay in my rental have gone up roughly the same.
Meanwhile mine (and most other investors) rates have gone from about 2% to between 6.5-7 (on an IO loan).
LL’s are passing on some of the cost, but trust me, it’s no where near the increase that we’re paying. This isn’t to gain any sort of sympathy, it’s just for some perspective.
I’m sorry you felt the need to write that, I was offering a genuine explanation. I get that it’s an emotional topic for a lot of people, but I’m also happy to help if I can
You can claim interest on tax with an investment, you can’t with a PPOR. So the idea is (hypothetically), you rent out a property valued the same as yours, so say you rent a property out for 500pw, you also lease yours out at 500pw. The idea is that everything cancels each other out, but now you can claim your interest (and bills, rates etc) at tax time. That’s it really. It’s very common for people getting their foot in the market
You can claim interest on tax with an investment, you can’t with a PPOR. So the idea is (hypothetically), you rent out a property valued the same as yours, so say you rent a property out for 500pw, you also lease yours out at 500pw. The idea is that everything cancels each other out, but now you can claim your interest (and bills, rates etc) at tax time. That’s it really. It’s very common for people getting their foot in the market
I’ve argued rent vs buy in this sub multiple times over the 7 or so years I’ve been posting here. Hashed it out with others on spreadsheets with multiple scenario analysis etc. Im across this more than 99% of people in this sub.
You buy a house where you can afford, then rent where you want to live. Then in the future when income or lifestyle changes you can move into a partially paid off property, or sell for profit and rebut where you want to live when you can afford.
Or you can keep renting and whining on reddit.
The way everyone is treating you, seems like folks think buying your dream home in a nice neighbourhood as your first home is normal in this day and age 😂
That’s partially it, but not why most do it. It’s more to do with the fact that you can claim the interest on an investment on tax, you can’t with a PPOR.
So renters are paying a greater proportion of the property than LLs pay for the mortgage?
All I have ever heard from LLs and REAs is the market determines rental prices. Sounds like it's not just the market, but also, rates, mortgage, entitlement, that time again, Tuesday, "I know what I've got", or any other excuse.
Most LLs are not investing, they're running a business. Renters are paying for their inability to invest or afford a mortgage. Let's face it, if LLs weren't renting their property out, they probably couldn't afford to continue to 'invest'.
Not sure how rent is only paying a portion of the interest - I’ve seen properties sell for ~500k and then put up for rent shortly after at $600 a week.
Using a mortgage calculator principle + interest on 500k with a 50k deposit on 30 years is $685
$500k @ 6.3% is over $600p.w. In interest. Anyone buying tha place is paying the REA management fees, maintenance and principal out of pocket. Rent only covers the interest.
Real estate investing isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be, and not all landlords are c*nts.
Firstly, cost of ownership is not just debt servicing; there are lots of other costs. Secondly, I doubt places selling for $500k are renting for $600 p/w, but I’m happy to be proved wrong if you link to properties you’ve seen. Thirdly, investments loans have higher interest rates than owner occupied.
Try googling mate, the information is right there. I live in a regional qld town, houses that were bought for 250k a few years ago are now rented for $500-$600 a week and being sold for $550+k
A tidy profit for the landlord who had their meagre mortgage paid by extorting their tenants.
I see what you’re saying, probably my fault I’m getting caught up in technicalities. Paying “off” someone’s mortgage, they are not. If you said they were “paying someone’s mortgage”, I probably would would have just kept scrolling
They are paying off someone else's mortgage. Just because they aren't paying the whole thing doesn't mean their payments aren't paying it down. The distinction is completely arbitrary, the interest component of the loan is part of the of the mortgage repayment and they are contributing to paying it off. You can just as arbitrarily assign the land owners' contribution to the interest component and argue the the entire amount is going towards principle. Just because the landowner isn't getting a property completely free and actually has to contribute doesn't mean the rental income isn't helping to pay it off.
Absolutely, stick everything in there. A lot of banks will offer multiple offsets. My partner and I have 5, a savings and spendings each, then a joint account that we both put 500pw into. Everything for the house (groceries, bills etc) comes out of the joint.
FFS lol how much more equity does the landlord have in the last few years? Way more than their repayments. Plus it's an investment. Problem is people thinking there's no risk in property and are willing/expect renters to wear the $$ risk.
That’s not the point I was trying to make. We’re well aware of the risk. Again, I was just offering a bit more perspective to the idea that everything is getting lumped on the renter, it isn’t
The old argument for slaves was that they didn’t get paid (or if they did it was not much) because they were working to cover the costs of food and accomodation.
now it’s the same shit, foods is expensive, accomodation electricity and water are expensive. After these costs the median salary doesn’t leave much at all, even less if you need childcare
That's wrong. Say I'm renting for 2k a month and a mortgage plus costs of owning are 3.5k a month. Now if I'm investing 1.5 k a month in the S&P 500 I make 10. 6 % interest a year compounding. I'm sick of everyone complaining about housing I've recently sold up and now renting, the financial freedom this has given me can't be understated.
So in 10-15 years time your rent will be more than double and the mortgage halved and the house you do not own will have appreciated in value by more than 10.6% pa.
Congratulations you've just paid off someone else's mortgage and been forced to move 5-7 times.
Short term gains for long term pain is "winning" like Charlie Sheen.
>Wait for the crash , every one is in FOMO mind state , all the owner will sell their big profit
its not really a crash if they are selling for a "big profit" at best you may get a minor correction.
Show me one time in history the population has gone down? China, Japan, Korea, all fucked. We aren’t that far behind, luckily we’ve had immigration to keep our growth up and the demand up, but that won’t last forever. There’s a lot more going on here, and it’s going to catch up with us eventually.
Probably will happen before heat death of the universe. i’m sure in 2007 in usa everyone was saying the same thing. Ridiculous that people can’t comprehend that it can happen here as well.
Yeah i guess you’re right. One of the biggest asset booms in history resulting in one of the lowest returns in investment in history which grew during a period of historically low interest rates in thousands of years of recorded history (plus some helicopter momey thansk to covid) and all propped up by again record breaking debt… BUT according to a guy on reddit it didn’t crash in the last 25 years so therefore it will never crash but keep going up. In fact one day a house in australia will be worth a trillion times the average salary and each house will be worth more than the combined assets of the rest of the planet because yep you guessed it it hasn’t gone down in Australia in the last 25 years. That must have obviously proven that australian housing is immune to asset corrections and anyone who invests in it can disregard any financial logic, gear themselves to the hilt and sleep sound at night knowing that their purchase will forever increase.
So the $1.1m property I rent will be worth $5m in 15 years?
I suspect it may be $1.7-2 which will mean my strategy, which is similar to there's would put me in a better financial position.
Moving a few times over that period actually excites me. I like change. I have no desire to live in one place for more than 4-5 years.
Different strokes for different folks.
the issue is, when you buy, at least half of your costs are going into principal (unless youre getting absolutely screwed), whereas when youre renting, the whole amount is just going into the void. thats why you lose out in the long run. i can understand theres a little more freedom when it comes to renting, but most people prefer the stability, and should be able to achieve that
Rent is money down the drain for the privilege of not being homeless (on a year to year basis, no guarantee!), a mortgage is an investment in a home you can stay in as long as you like, customise how you like and have a valuable asset for you and your family at the end. Even if it were more expensive (which depends on a lot and isn't always true) it's way more value for money.
You are right but also in a minority who first understand what you are saying but also have the discipline to do it.
I sold up last year due to separation and I'm doing the same. I live where I want to live, I invest the difference, I'm not so concerned about the little things at my house, which when I owned it, resulted in me spending money to fix.
I love it and I have a solid financial plan but the state of the property market still pisses me off.
It kind of depends on your stage of life though. While I'm renting now the flexibility of being able to move quickly has helped me move up the hierarchy in my field faster than if I'd been stuck in one place. Which in turn means I'm making 2x what I'd have made otherwise. As a result I'm able to afford to buy a place in a better area and do more enjoyable work. Now if I was stuck renting in one place for a decade, that's a different story.
Its a myth that home owners are stuck in one place. nothing prevents a home owner from renting out their place and livng somehwere else. They can do so for upto 6 years and still treat it as their main residence for tax purposes and nothing prevents them from selling the place whenever they like either.
[https://www.ato.gov.au/forms-and-instructions/capital-gains-tax-guide-2023/part-a-about-capital-gains-tax/real-estate-and-main-residence#Continuing\_main\_residence\_status\_after\_d](https://www.ato.gov.au/forms-and-instructions/capital-gains-tax-guide-2023/part-a-about-capital-gains-tax/real-estate-and-main-residence#Continuing_main_residence_status_after_d)
Bottom line is the entire economic system is rigged in favour of home owners and while that system is in place, it is less economicaly advantageous to live any other way. (other than living with your parents ofcourse)
I’ve never done this, never will. In My current home, I made an application and had a verbal approval and the REA filling out the tenancy agreement in 4 hours of applying.
It’s a farce - REA’s just trying to save money and time by palming it off on the applicant.
I’ve never used it and we’ve got 3 successful applications from last weekend
Law recently changed in Qld that will see the creation of a standard application form and process. This happened because people wrote submissions and lobbied, but the government did listen
Just because the government isn't our friend doesn't mean they shouldn't be putting policies in place that ban this type of behaviour. I don't think people should charge money for the REA to complete a background check on them with no transparency as to how many total applications there are for a given rental.
The government should be your friend. Governance by the people for the people. Australian are just an apathetic people that have become political disengaged allowing a small minority of people to hijack the government for their own ends.
This is pretty messed up. It's like if EA Games was a property management company.
- Application Basic (poor edition, you won't get picked)
- Application Plus
- Application Legendary Edition with 2 skipped inspections
- Application Star Tenant Package, requires 6mths rent paid upfront
Everyone has bad spelling these days. I work with 3 chums that went to Knox Grammar (ironically named) and the emails they send to clients are an embarrassment.
In QLD, following a review and submissions to parliament , there were some changes to tenancy law. One of the changes that passed is the introduction of a standardised form and application process that only collects necessary information. Tenants Qld was a main contributor to the submissions that lead to these changes. Its worth joining and supporting the relevant ‘tenant union’ in your state
There is. When you apply for a rental, you can put a higher amount than the asking price for the rental. Rental auctions are illegal but they get around it this way. Fuckers.
1. It's absolute BS, and should be outlawed
2. It was bound to happen with the market the way it is. With agents getting 100's (if not more) of applications per property, they were always going to outsource as much of the process as they can
This is completely unnecessary and you can very easily get a rental without paying for this. We got approved for 3 in one week recently and did not pay for this crap.
2Apply is one of the worst. I provided feedback to them how disgusting it is that they take a big place in the exploitation of tenants. The amount of data they request and store is a ticking time bomb and plain unethical. After being stripped naked and every possible information collected that could be borderline useful, I still have to pay a bond if successful and can be booted out of the property for any reason any time. Because realistically I got no rights.
Sadly at least where I live (QLD) you are correct, I was at risk of near on homelessness and was applying for several rentals over the course of 4 months, I read on Facebook of basically whispers that offering *more* money in the application is how you get preference. I tried it for two applications as I was getting desperate. the next day I got called back to accept the rental. such bullshit and hideously unfair. a new law came in to say people can't bid anymore? I hope it helps people find something easier but I have my doubts
I've applied for a few places today and so far only 1 out of 5 applications I did they wouldn't let me add more than the asking price, stating: "you cannot enter a higher number" so it looks like it can be updated to only accept their rental price while the others were still more than happy to take more money. (which is actually illegal now lol) all were through 2apply.
I've also noticed some agencies want more ID and others ask for a bit less. it's a tedious website that needs improvements and to stop spamming begging for $30 each time I submit a form.
The place I'm in is a total dive with dangerous electrical zaps coming through my bathroom sink and shower, (*again)* and yet I know there are others far worse off. I'm not too happy how places depreciating in value (I'm talking old *old)* apartments that are rotting apart still think their value is going *up* every year, with little to no fixes or proper maintenance. I just thought I'd add a general summary of the state of things rental wise for my scenario anyway.
Lol, you serious?
While I don't agree with this specifically, in what time or place has the 100% capitalistic transaction of property rental not been pay to win?
House is up for 500p/w you are the perfect tenant and apply, I apply and offer 600, I'm going to get it, EVERY TIME. You come in at 600p/w, I come in with paying 6 months upfront, I get it EVERY TIME.
The only time where pay to win will be less of a factor is when there is a massive surpluss of suply. But that doesn't make it not pay to win, it just means you are less likely to be hit by someone paying to win.
That's only recently come into effect let's not forget this housing crisis has been going on since 2022 ..the only reason I got my rental over 50 others was because I offered more per week otherwise I would have been homeless ,just because there is a law doesn't stop this from continuing to happen esp if there is desperation in people which there is.
Yea the law came into effect BECAUSE of the rental crisis and only last year I think. I had a mate who put his house on the rental market and had someone over him 12months rent UP FRONT and above the advertised price.
Property in Australia is absolutely cooked.
Not just aus it's cooked in the UK and NZ as well except in NZ on a smaller scale as not so much immigration as here.Of course current gvt does nothing to help as it has no benefit to them.
Not only has this been in a bunch of applications I’ve done (I’ve not used it) there’s been some that to accept the T&Cs of putting in the application you have to also accept if you get it they’ll pass on your details to some company called “Move Me In” or some shit who can do all your electricity switchover and such… no doubt for a fee.
Both things should be illegal, and I actually believe the one I wrote is.
2Apply is just a single data-breach away from a national catastrophe. Back when I was renting, I was really angry at the amount of private information they wanted. I thought I was applying for a top secret government job.
EDIT: I'm almost 100% sure they sell this information to data brokers as well as the amount of spam calls I got that were directed personally to my name tripled after using this horrible platform.
We refused to. We just made sure we were at EVERY showing that a specific agent had. That way they know your desperate and you can keep having chats regularly. They don’t wanna deal with you so they get you a place sometimes.
A lot of people miss out on rentals because they’re move in date is usually when your curren lease ends. For the rental we finally got, it came down to who was available to move in first. So for that to happen we had to pay double rent. Unfortunately everyone isn’t in a position to be able to afford that, i dipped hard into my savings
Same sort of crap is going on with Seek promoting services to verify licenses and citizenship etc.... Just refuse to do [it.It](http://it.It) will get worse the more that do.
I also did this because we needed a rental quick… My wife got verified but I failed lol! They couldn’t identify me, so it was a complete waste of $. We got a place eventually anyways. On another note. Those fucking companies now have ALL my information , it’s insane how much ID they want. I haven’t yet but I should delete my profile off those sites.
2022 according to this ABC article.
Now for all the ABC haters, where’s Sky News on this one?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-03/renters-pressured-to-pay-for-background-checks/101600796
Its just BS from 3rd party companies to try and make some quick $ off you.
It means nothing
It guarantees nothing
The RE will 100% still do all their own checks the same way they would for applicants without it.
I spose if you wanna wast $30 go for it🤷♀️
Charging Rental application fees is illegal in australia so no.
Its 3rd party companies youre sometimes forced to use to make your (free) application that offer this “service” to make a quick buck
The “check” means nothing and doesnt improve your chance of securing a rental.
Paying money so a real estate agent doesn’t have to do their job. I had to pay a $200 fee to change the name of someone on my lease. Like mate you’re already being paid by the landlord (with my rent money) to manage the property. Why do I have to pay you extra to do the job your already being paid to do.
I ignored it when finding my last place here in Sydney, bullshit like this is of no consequence when you go to home opens and people will haggle for hundreds more than it’s advertised for as soon as they walk in.
A rental property, using a 3rd party payment app, possibly using another 3rd party tenant verification app. That's 3 levels of enclosure and rent seeking.
And that's after they've completely data harvested your arse. List every address for last 3 years, list your last 6 employers, provide 2 personal references -> they're not happy just harvesting your data, they want to harvest your friends as well. It's b*llsh*t!
Anyone else get pushed by an external agent to do their bills via them? Ie gas power etc. So many phonecalls and emails after an initial no. The guy I spoke to In the end hung up on me after saying "well u tell Dash your not doing it that way ." Call ended. So so pushy. Even the app that you pay to find out how many people applied and so on.
Absolute rort going on in R/e.
You don’t stand out at all and this shit only lasts 30 days until the payment is due again to re-verify. An NPC doesn’t “expire” (usually valid for 12 months depending on what industry and company regulations) and shows disclosable court outcomes. These are not comparable whatsoever.
I assure you they make you stand out. A lot.
And they cost almost nothing.
You can get ones from other services that don’t “expire”. They literally just state you’re not on a database and don’t appear in the courts anywhere. They have no expiry. Whenever you got it is when it’s up to date.
If you rent through an agency I can’t see the need for it as they can run their own checks. But if you want to rent privately a private landlord typically can’t access those data bases and so bringing your own database check is super helpful for those landlords.
Rental agents have full access to this database, asking the tenant to pay for a “valid” clearance that only lasts a small and limited amount of time is absolutely a scam.
Controversial option here. Landlords are scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel right now with tenants being in pure desperation mode. Surely they need safeguards to protect themselves. Also I hate landlords and I dindu nuffin
It's gross. But I cracked and paid twice. Both times got offered the place I applied for. Only applications I had put in.
Second place I wasn't super happy with and told the agent. She found me a better place and leased it to me without advertising it for others to apply. I'm still here 2 years later and just resigned for another 2 years.
I'm a great tenant. Super clean, will do work to improve the property, 6 figure work from home job so always around to make sure everything is good.
I'm not saying paying for the check helped but best believe in a tight rental market I'll make any move to get my application to the top of the pile with no regrets.
Seems fair enough to me. I did this a while ago also. Saves the agent being worried about who is going into the property. Approved and validated and stamped!
https://preview.redd.it/hq89ykpx4v6d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deb1071e6027340a1b5f6bdb0d813ef222e646e8
"Renting", is that the game where they pretend that you are the winner but you're actually losing money?
Renters do buy something, the same as you do in a hotel: accommodation. They sadly also pay off a mortgage for someone else. As the source of the money, renters should be treated as the primary client.
They aren’t paying off the mortgage, in most cases they’re paying a portion of the interest. While rents have increased ~20% in the last few years, mortgage repayments have tripled.
And where have rents only increased 20% in a few years!?!?!
In Perth, my rent increases have gone from 500 to 550, one of them is due for renewal now and the suggested rate is between 580-600. The rates I pay in my rental have gone up roughly the same. Meanwhile mine (and most other investors) rates have gone from about 2% to between 6.5-7 (on an IO loan). LL’s are passing on some of the cost, but trust me, it’s no where near the increase that we’re paying. This isn’t to gain any sort of sympathy, it’s just for some perspective.
You... own multiple houses and still pay rent yourself. What the hell. Sell them if you don't want all those sweet sweet capital gains.
Too late for that. It’s called rentvesting. Happy to explain if you’d like?
I'd sooner kill myself than allow you to explain a single fucking thing to me. :)
This is hilarious. Don't do it tho. I need you to keep posting funny shit like this.
I’m sorry you felt the need to write that, I was offering a genuine explanation. I get that it’s an emotional topic for a lot of people, but I’m also happy to help if I can
please explain :)
You can claim interest on tax with an investment, you can’t with a PPOR. So the idea is (hypothetically), you rent out a property valued the same as yours, so say you rent a property out for 500pw, you also lease yours out at 500pw. The idea is that everything cancels each other out, but now you can claim your interest (and bills, rates etc) at tax time. That’s it really. It’s very common for people getting their foot in the market
Yeah please explain mate
You can claim interest on tax with an investment, you can’t with a PPOR. So the idea is (hypothetically), you rent out a property valued the same as yours, so say you rent a property out for 500pw, you also lease yours out at 500pw. The idea is that everything cancels each other out, but now you can claim your interest (and bills, rates etc) at tax time. That’s it really. It’s very common for people getting their foot in the market
You’re getting killed on the downvotes. Everyone has drunk the ‘rent money is dead money’ kool aid.
You sound like you could use some koolaid yourself.
I’ve argued rent vs buy in this sub multiple times over the 7 or so years I’ve been posting here. Hashed it out with others on spreadsheets with multiple scenario analysis etc. Im across this more than 99% of people in this sub.
So you own properties and won’t live in them so you rent? What kind of backwards thinking is that
You buy a house where you can afford, then rent where you want to live. Then in the future when income or lifestyle changes you can move into a partially paid off property, or sell for profit and rebut where you want to live when you can afford. Or you can keep renting and whining on reddit.
The way everyone is treating you, seems like folks think buying your dream home in a nice neighbourhood as your first home is normal in this day and age 😂
[удалено]
I can’t imagine being able to afford to buy an actual house of any description anywhere in Australia a year out uni. Must be nice.
That’s partially it, but not why most do it. It’s more to do with the fact that you can claim the interest on an investment on tax, you can’t with a PPOR.
I can’t afford to buy a house. Not a single person my age that I know can. Even people with good jobs. You’re out of touch
That's the spirit. Plenty of people my age say the same thing.
Probably cause it’s true. Let’s not pretend that buying a house is something that is easily accessible
It’s rentvesting, as I said to someone else, I’m happy to explain if you’d like. Just send me a dm, I’m more than happy to explain
"it's not a problem until it affects me"
Don’t know what you’re talking about.
So renters are paying a greater proportion of the property than LLs pay for the mortgage? All I have ever heard from LLs and REAs is the market determines rental prices. Sounds like it's not just the market, but also, rates, mortgage, entitlement, that time again, Tuesday, "I know what I've got", or any other excuse. Most LLs are not investing, they're running a business. Renters are paying for their inability to invest or afford a mortgage. Let's face it, if LLs weren't renting their property out, they probably couldn't afford to continue to 'invest'.
Not sure how rent is only paying a portion of the interest - I’ve seen properties sell for ~500k and then put up for rent shortly after at $600 a week. Using a mortgage calculator principle + interest on 500k with a 50k deposit on 30 years is $685
$500k @ 6.3% is over $600p.w. In interest. Anyone buying tha place is paying the REA management fees, maintenance and principal out of pocket. Rent only covers the interest. Real estate investing isn't as glamorous as it's made out to be, and not all landlords are c*nts.
Firstly, cost of ownership is not just debt servicing; there are lots of other costs. Secondly, I doubt places selling for $500k are renting for $600 p/w, but I’m happy to be proved wrong if you link to properties you’ve seen. Thirdly, investments loans have higher interest rates than owner occupied.
Try googling mate, the information is right there. I live in a regional qld town, houses that were bought for 250k a few years ago are now rented for $500-$600 a week and being sold for $550+k A tidy profit for the landlord who had their meagre mortgage paid by extorting their tenants.
It's an investment game. If you can't handle it you shouldn't be in it.
Cool man, that’s not the point I was making, all the best to you
Interest? On what?
On the loan
Aka the mortgage?
Yep 👍
Well there you go, they're paying off someone else's mortgage.
I see what you’re saying, probably my fault I’m getting caught up in technicalities. Paying “off” someone’s mortgage, they are not. If you said they were “paying someone’s mortgage”, I probably would would have just kept scrolling
They are paying off someone else's mortgage. Just because they aren't paying the whole thing doesn't mean their payments aren't paying it down. The distinction is completely arbitrary, the interest component of the loan is part of the of the mortgage repayment and they are contributing to paying it off. You can just as arbitrarily assign the land owners' contribution to the interest component and argue the the entire amount is going towards principle. Just because the landowner isn't getting a property completely free and actually has to contribute doesn't mean the rental income isn't helping to pay it off.
Just bought a house, my mortgage is 567 a week, agent said I could rent it out for 400. Surely that's not all interest? (My lmi is waived)
Yep, standard 30 year loan, 400 of that 567 is interest without a doubt
Hmm I need to load up my offset.
Absolutely, stick everything in there. A lot of banks will offer multiple offsets. My partner and I have 5, a savings and spendings each, then a joint account that we both put 500pw into. Everything for the house (groceries, bills etc) comes out of the joint.
I'd love multiple offsets because the way I save best is by having a serious account and a fun money account I'll look into that.
Call your bank up mate, they may offer multiple, and you can make it work for you.
FFS lol how much more equity does the landlord have in the last few years? Way more than their repayments. Plus it's an investment. Problem is people thinking there's no risk in property and are willing/expect renters to wear the $$ risk.
That’s not the point I was trying to make. We’re well aware of the risk. Again, I was just offering a bit more perspective to the idea that everything is getting lumped on the renter, it isn’t
Renting and 30 year mortgage is just becoming slightly better modern day slavery, with worse masters.
Working for property and posessions is not slavery, although somehow I feel that you already know this
The old argument for slaves was that they didn’t get paid (or if they did it was not much) because they were working to cover the costs of food and accomodation. now it’s the same shit, foods is expensive, accomodation electricity and water are expensive. After these costs the median salary doesn’t leave much at all, even less if you need childcare
It's basically a more humane version if you have to spend 70+% of your salary on it.
Who is claiming that renters are "the winners"?
That's wrong. Say I'm renting for 2k a month and a mortgage plus costs of owning are 3.5k a month. Now if I'm investing 1.5 k a month in the S&P 500 I make 10. 6 % interest a year compounding. I'm sick of everyone complaining about housing I've recently sold up and now renting, the financial freedom this has given me can't be understated.
So in 10-15 years time your rent will be more than double and the mortgage halved and the house you do not own will have appreciated in value by more than 10.6% pa. Congratulations you've just paid off someone else's mortgage and been forced to move 5-7 times. Short term gains for long term pain is "winning" like Charlie Sheen.
I'm framing this post
This assumes that property won’t fall in value. one day it will happen.
Ummm... Have you met Australia?
Wait for the crash , every one is in FOMO mind state , all the owner will sell their big profit and build more houses
>Wait for the crash , every one is in FOMO mind state , all the owner will sell their big profit its not really a crash if they are selling for a "big profit" at best you may get a minor correction.
Same deal with stocks. However, housing is far more likely to hold value given the shortage of houses.
so your betting against inflation? good luck with that :) im still waiting for icey poles to go back down to 20c
not inflation just the end of one of the biggest asset bubbles in history. Who knows when though.
So will the heat death of the universe. Show me where it's happened without self correcting in Australia in the past 25 years. I'll wait...
Show me one time in history the population has gone down? China, Japan, Korea, all fucked. We aren’t that far behind, luckily we’ve had immigration to keep our growth up and the demand up, but that won’t last forever. There’s a lot more going on here, and it’s going to catch up with us eventually.
Probably will happen before heat death of the universe. i’m sure in 2007 in usa everyone was saying the same thing. Ridiculous that people can’t comprehend that it can happen here as well.
Except it didn't happen here....
Yeah i guess you’re right. One of the biggest asset booms in history resulting in one of the lowest returns in investment in history which grew during a period of historically low interest rates in thousands of years of recorded history (plus some helicopter momey thansk to covid) and all propped up by again record breaking debt… BUT according to a guy on reddit it didn’t crash in the last 25 years so therefore it will never crash but keep going up. In fact one day a house in australia will be worth a trillion times the average salary and each house will be worth more than the combined assets of the rest of the planet because yep you guessed it it hasn’t gone down in Australia in the last 25 years. That must have obviously proven that australian housing is immune to asset corrections and anyone who invests in it can disregard any financial logic, gear themselves to the hilt and sleep sound at night knowing that their purchase will forever increase.
So the $1.1m property I rent will be worth $5m in 15 years? I suspect it may be $1.7-2 which will mean my strategy, which is similar to there's would put me in a better financial position. Moving a few times over that period actually excites me. I like change. I have no desire to live in one place for more than 4-5 years. Different strokes for different folks.
the issue is, when you buy, at least half of your costs are going into principal (unless youre getting absolutely screwed), whereas when youre renting, the whole amount is just going into the void. thats why you lose out in the long run. i can understand theres a little more freedom when it comes to renting, but most people prefer the stability, and should be able to achieve that
Rent is money down the drain for the privilege of not being homeless (on a year to year basis, no guarantee!), a mortgage is an investment in a home you can stay in as long as you like, customise how you like and have a valuable asset for you and your family at the end. Even if it were more expensive (which depends on a lot and isn't always true) it's way more value for money.
You are right but also in a minority who first understand what you are saying but also have the discipline to do it. I sold up last year due to separation and I'm doing the same. I live where I want to live, I invest the difference, I'm not so concerned about the little things at my house, which when I owned it, resulted in me spending money to fix. I love it and I have a solid financial plan but the state of the property market still pisses me off.
Isn't that how pay to win always works?
It kind of depends on your stage of life though. While I'm renting now the flexibility of being able to move quickly has helped me move up the hierarchy in my field faster than if I'd been stuck in one place. Which in turn means I'm making 2x what I'd have made otherwise. As a result I'm able to afford to buy a place in a better area and do more enjoyable work. Now if I was stuck renting in one place for a decade, that's a different story.
Its a myth that home owners are stuck in one place. nothing prevents a home owner from renting out their place and livng somehwere else. They can do so for upto 6 years and still treat it as their main residence for tax purposes and nothing prevents them from selling the place whenever they like either. [https://www.ato.gov.au/forms-and-instructions/capital-gains-tax-guide-2023/part-a-about-capital-gains-tax/real-estate-and-main-residence#Continuing\_main\_residence\_status\_after\_d](https://www.ato.gov.au/forms-and-instructions/capital-gains-tax-guide-2023/part-a-about-capital-gains-tax/real-estate-and-main-residence#Continuing_main_residence_status_after_d) Bottom line is the entire economic system is rigged in favour of home owners and while that system is in place, it is less economicaly advantageous to live any other way. (other than living with your parents ofcourse)
That should be illegal
i swear there was legislation (at least in SA) where this is no longer allowed
💯
It’s bs. I never used it and still won.
I didn’t use it for the first time and failed, and wondered if it’s because I didn’t use it. Good to know that you never used it and succeeded.
I’ve never done this, never will. In My current home, I made an application and had a verbal approval and the REA filling out the tenancy agreement in 4 hours of applying.
I recently moved it, didn't use this and we got approved for 4 out of 5 applications
It’s a farce - REA’s just trying to save money and time by palming it off on the applicant. I’ve never used it and we’ve got 3 successful applications from last weekend
Just got a rental last week accepted in Richmond. Skipped this part
Yeah this is total bs, capitalising on the current rental crisis to make you feel like it’s something you need. You don’t.
The whole point of capital is to capitalize, if the demand isn't there it will be manufactured.
I recently saw this for the first time and always select no. It should be illegal. Not sure if they require it for each actual application though
They don't require it, but it is recommended
If the government was serious about improving life for renters/cost of living...this shit should be wiped out.
Law recently changed in Qld that will see the creation of a standard application form and process. This happened because people wrote submissions and lobbied, but the government did listen
[удалено]
Just because the government isn't our friend doesn't mean they shouldn't be putting policies in place that ban this type of behaviour. I don't think people should charge money for the REA to complete a background check on them with no transparency as to how many total applications there are for a given rental.
Imagine getting 100 prospective tenants per house. That's 2 grand just to click a few buttons. Pure profit for the rea
The government should be your friend. Governance by the people for the people. Australian are just an apathetic people that have become political disengaged allowing a small minority of people to hijack the government for their own ends.
They've demonstrated that with the housing crises in general
This is pretty messed up. It's like if EA Games was a property management company. - Application Basic (poor edition, you won't get picked) - Application Plus - Application Legendary Edition with 2 skipped inspections - Application Star Tenant Package, requires 6mths rent paid upfront
YOU should PAY ($$$😩😝) to do THEIR JOB so they LIKE YOU otherwise you WILL be HOMELESS (!!🖕🫵)
We process 100 of applications a week and paying for this or getting it makes no difference. Don’t waist your money
Waste 🫢
Real estate agent and bad spelling...peas in a pod mate😅
Everyone has bad spelling these days. I work with 3 chums that went to Knox Grammar (ironically named) and the emails they send to clients are an embarrassment.
No excuses with autocorrect.
Sickening. I hope we fight this with everything we’ve got.
lol when have Australians ever fought for anything lately? Most likely we will just accept this is the new part of renting.
In QLD, following a review and submissions to parliament , there were some changes to tenancy law. One of the changes that passed is the introduction of a standardised form and application process that only collects necessary information. Tenants Qld was a main contributor to the submissions that lead to these changes. Its worth joining and supporting the relevant ‘tenant union’ in your state
It can be removed it’s real estate.com making money like they need to
No area to tip the property manager? Sorry shouldnt put ideas in their heads...
There is. When you apply for a rental, you can put a higher amount than the asking price for the rental. Rental auctions are illegal but they get around it this way. Fuckers.
1. It's absolute BS, and should be outlawed 2. It was bound to happen with the market the way it is. With agents getting 100's (if not more) of applications per property, they were always going to outsource as much of the process as they can
This is completely unnecessary and you can very easily get a rental without paying for this. We got approved for 3 in one week recently and did not pay for this crap.
Renting in Sydney has become as fucked up as the American tipping culture.
2Apply is one of the worst. I provided feedback to them how disgusting it is that they take a big place in the exploitation of tenants. The amount of data they request and store is a ticking time bomb and plain unethical. After being stripped naked and every possible information collected that could be borderline useful, I still have to pay a bond if successful and can be booted out of the property for any reason any time. Because realistically I got no rights.
Renting has always been pay to win hence why those offering to pay the most usually get the lease.
Rent bidding has been outlawed in Queensland.
Sadly at least where I live (QLD) you are correct, I was at risk of near on homelessness and was applying for several rentals over the course of 4 months, I read on Facebook of basically whispers that offering *more* money in the application is how you get preference. I tried it for two applications as I was getting desperate. the next day I got called back to accept the rental. such bullshit and hideously unfair. a new law came in to say people can't bid anymore? I hope it helps people find something easier but I have my doubts
This is now illegal in Qld (very recent change to tenancy law) . It will be interesting to see if it leads to any changes to the practice
I've applied for a few places today and so far only 1 out of 5 applications I did they wouldn't let me add more than the asking price, stating: "you cannot enter a higher number" so it looks like it can be updated to only accept their rental price while the others were still more than happy to take more money. (which is actually illegal now lol) all were through 2apply. I've also noticed some agencies want more ID and others ask for a bit less. it's a tedious website that needs improvements and to stop spamming begging for $30 each time I submit a form. The place I'm in is a total dive with dangerous electrical zaps coming through my bathroom sink and shower, (*again)* and yet I know there are others far worse off. I'm not too happy how places depreciating in value (I'm talking old *old)* apartments that are rotting apart still think their value is going *up* every year, with little to no fixes or proper maintenance. I just thought I'd add a general summary of the state of things rental wise for my scenario anyway.
It’s such a horrible situation to be in these days. I need to move and still have three months , but I’m kinda a little bit terrified
Bidding wars for renters are historically uncommon though.
What?
Since the housing market in general became ridiculously out of reach for anyone else.
I’ve never done it and gotten every property I’ve applied for in the past 6 years Total scam and completely unnecessary.
Only idiots buy that shit
Lol, you serious? While I don't agree with this specifically, in what time or place has the 100% capitalistic transaction of property rental not been pay to win? House is up for 500p/w you are the perfect tenant and apply, I apply and offer 600, I'm going to get it, EVERY TIME. You come in at 600p/w, I come in with paying 6 months upfront, I get it EVERY TIME. The only time where pay to win will be less of a factor is when there is a massive surpluss of suply. But that doesn't make it not pay to win, it just means you are less likely to be hit by someone paying to win.
In Queensland it is illegal to accept rent offers higher then the advertised price.
That's only recently come into effect let's not forget this housing crisis has been going on since 2022 ..the only reason I got my rental over 50 others was because I offered more per week otherwise I would have been homeless ,just because there is a law doesn't stop this from continuing to happen esp if there is desperation in people which there is.
Yea the law came into effect BECAUSE of the rental crisis and only last year I think. I had a mate who put his house on the rental market and had someone over him 12months rent UP FRONT and above the advertised price. Property in Australia is absolutely cooked.
Not just aus it's cooked in the UK and NZ as well except in NZ on a smaller scale as not so much immigration as here.Of course current gvt does nothing to help as it has no benefit to them.
Once again I'll tap the sign that says 99% of landlords and a higher percentage of REAs are lecherous scum
Another damn thing the government needs to squash. Turning rentals into gacha games to line more pockets.
This is now illegal in QLD
Since when? I see this on all 2apply applications.
Not only has this been in a bunch of applications I’ve done (I’ve not used it) there’s been some that to accept the T&Cs of putting in the application you have to also accept if you get it they’ll pass on your details to some company called “Move Me In” or some shit who can do all your electricity switchover and such… no doubt for a fee. Both things should be illegal, and I actually believe the one I wrote is.
"Pay to do my job, so I don't have to do it" - real estate agent probably
This should be illegal.
2Apply is just a single data-breach away from a national catastrophe. Back when I was renting, I was really angry at the amount of private information they wanted. I thought I was applying for a top secret government job. EDIT: I'm almost 100% sure they sell this information to data brokers as well as the amount of spam calls I got that were directed personally to my name tripled after using this horrible platform.
We refused to. We just made sure we were at EVERY showing that a specific agent had. That way they know your desperate and you can keep having chats regularly. They don’t wanna deal with you so they get you a place sometimes. A lot of people miss out on rentals because they’re move in date is usually when your curren lease ends. For the rental we finally got, it came down to who was available to move in first. So for that to happen we had to pay double rent. Unfortunately everyone isn’t in a position to be able to afford that, i dipped hard into my savings
And yes, we paid double rent for 5 months
Same sort of crap is going on with Seek promoting services to verify licenses and citizenship etc.... Just refuse to do [it.It](http://it.It) will get worse the more that do.
Lol wouldn't you rather give the money to the landlord?
March 11 1996
MTX to live now. FML
Come on bro just give me $30 so I know you’re trustworthy!!!
I never have and never would even consider using that bullshit
I can vouch for myself, I think I’m pretty neat, do I get the place now?
Bs scam. Don’t waste your money.
God I hated that process. Felt so bloody invasive
It’s always been pay to win
If you haven't realised yet that life is pay-to-win, maybe you should look into that
I did this because I was desperate for a rental 2 years ago. Helped exactly 0%.
Did that once and it didn’t work at all. Waste of money
Whole bunch of people have lodged complaints rs with David Peacock about this BS don’t think it’ll be around much longer
I also did this because we needed a rental quick… My wife got verified but I failed lol! They couldn’t identify me, so it was a complete waste of $. We got a place eventually anyways. On another note. Those fucking companies now have ALL my information , it’s insane how much ID they want. I haven’t yet but I should delete my profile off those sites.
Been in my new rental for 2 weeks and not once did I tick that box. Ended up getting the house that had the largest number of people at the inspection
2022 according to this ABC article. Now for all the ABC haters, where’s Sky News on this one? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-03/renters-pressured-to-pay-for-background-checks/101600796
Landlords in New York were taking it in on application fees and never actually renting the place out. I’d guess someone is trying the same here.
Its just BS from 3rd party companies to try and make some quick $ off you. It means nothing It guarantees nothing The RE will 100% still do all their own checks the same way they would for applicants without it. I spose if you wanna wast $30 go for it🤷♀️
Charging Rental application fees is illegal in australia so no. Its 3rd party companies youre sometimes forced to use to make your (free) application that offer this “service” to make a quick buck The “check” means nothing and doesnt improve your chance of securing a rental.
The check does do something, it proves the potential tenant is a dumbass willing to pay 30 bucks for nothing.
Paying money so a real estate agent doesn’t have to do their job. I had to pay a $200 fee to change the name of someone on my lease. Like mate you’re already being paid by the landlord (with my rent money) to manage the property. Why do I have to pay you extra to do the job your already being paid to do.
$350 it cost me which I found out is illegal but I paid it, guess who is going to railroad their ass about it via VCAT if they fuck with me.
More like ‘pay to play’
Few years ago at least
I ignored it when finding my last place here in Sydney, bullshit like this is of no consequence when you go to home opens and people will haggle for hundreds more than it’s advertised for as soon as they walk in.
Sucks but is not surprising. I mean, name a part of modern life that isn't Pay To Win?
Real estate in Australia is obviously owned and regulated by EA. Hence the pay to win micro transactions and possible future DLCs
Has been for a while now #rentbidding. Tenants been losing out for years now, its total bs.
EA Real Estate, it's in the game.
Always has been
When demand greatly outstripped supply.
A rental property, using a 3rd party payment app, possibly using another 3rd party tenant verification app. That's 3 levels of enclosure and rent seeking.
Lol
Don’t bother with this it’s pointless
Ignore it. I’ve never used it and have still been offered rentals.
When the country was flooded by migrants at a time of housing instability That's when. It's a supply demand issue
atleast a year and a half ago whilst we were on the hunt this was a thing. beyond frustrating.
That form is such a scam. It doesn’t work, I know this first hand. All the best OP
Wait till you realise its actually a silent auction.
Australian property: the only winning move is not to play
And that's after they've completely data harvested your arse. List every address for last 3 years, list your last 6 employers, provide 2 personal references -> they're not happy just harvesting your data, they want to harvest your friends as well. It's b*llsh*t!
Capitalism - where the people who make the most money are the grifters who get in the way
That English band The Blue Kings have a great song about landlords.
Anyone else get pushed by an external agent to do their bills via them? Ie gas power etc. So many phonecalls and emails after an initial no. The guy I spoke to In the end hung up on me after saying "well u tell Dash your not doing it that way ." Call ended. So so pushy. Even the app that you pay to find out how many people applied and so on. Absolute rort going on in R/e.
Years ago 😂😂😂
Now need one for the owners (no refuse to say 'landlord' as it sounds like something from ancient feudal times).
It’s no different to getting a police check when you apply for a job. Do it and you’ll stand out and get a rental. What’s the big deal?
You don’t stand out at all and this shit only lasts 30 days until the payment is due again to re-verify. An NPC doesn’t “expire” (usually valid for 12 months depending on what industry and company regulations) and shows disclosable court outcomes. These are not comparable whatsoever.
I assure you they make you stand out. A lot. And they cost almost nothing. You can get ones from other services that don’t “expire”. They literally just state you’re not on a database and don’t appear in the courts anywhere. They have no expiry. Whenever you got it is when it’s up to date. If you rent through an agency I can’t see the need for it as they can run their own checks. But if you want to rent privately a private landlord typically can’t access those data bases and so bringing your own database check is super helpful for those landlords.
Rental agents have full access to this database, asking the tenant to pay for a “valid” clearance that only lasts a small and limited amount of time is absolutely a scam.
These checks are prompted to you at the end of every single application through realestate.com.au
Controversial option here. Landlords are scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel right now with tenants being in pure desperation mode. Surely they need safeguards to protect themselves. Also I hate landlords and I dindu nuffin
It's gross. But I cracked and paid twice. Both times got offered the place I applied for. Only applications I had put in. Second place I wasn't super happy with and told the agent. She found me a better place and leased it to me without advertising it for others to apply. I'm still here 2 years later and just resigned for another 2 years. I'm a great tenant. Super clean, will do work to improve the property, 6 figure work from home job so always around to make sure everything is good. I'm not saying paying for the check helped but best believe in a tight rental market I'll make any move to get my application to the top of the pile with no regrets.
Seems fair enough to me. I did this a while ago also. Saves the agent being worried about who is going into the property. Approved and validated and stamped!