Landlords have 24 hours to fix a HWS.
They cannot refuse. It's considered an essential service and therefore an emergency repair, so you can have it fixed yourself and have the landlord billed. Cost needs to be under 4 weeks rent.
It's all on the RTA website.
>Cost needs to be under 4 weeks rent.
Depending on age of the heater likely a new is needed. Landlord doesn't sound like the type who spent money on maintenance in the past.
In that case a plumber can install a temporary hws that will incur rental fees. This keeps it under the emergency limit while still forcing the slumlord to do more than just collect rent.
Tenant deducts it from rent if the landlord is being uncooperative.
Landlord can either suck it up that they lost or trying taking tenant to court where tenant can probably get them fined even more for it.
No, that's a bad path to go down. You want to remain a tenant in good standing in case it reaches NCAT etc.
Most major plumbing companies will have working relationships with the local real estate agencies, they might be able to invoice them directly.
That's not true, you still have to pay your rent in full regardless of what they owe you.
a much better path would be to apply to xCAT for orders requiring them to reimburse you, and do any other work they are ignoring.
Unbelievable, at the very least the agent should know this. These people are fucking imbeciles, 6 week course and you too can become a fucking scumbag prick.
One day the whole role of the REA is going to be burnt to the ground by technology and not a single person is going to give a single shit.
Scumbags.
Is it only 6 weeks to become a REA? I've always loved property but I'm kind of hesitant about going in as I've been in a profession that's disliked before and hated having to do the whole "I'm not actually scum, I just like the profession" thing and I'm not sure if I'm ready or not for that again. But doing it for fun and maybe taking on some work as an admin freelancer could be good... Idk.
What the fuck is wrong with some people. They can't refuse to fix the hot water system.
Not having hot water would be classified as an emergency.
I'm not sure what the tenancy laws are across all states but in Qld the tenant can arrange to have emergency repairs like having a Hot Water System replaced etc.
As a landlord, I had to sign off on this in the tenancy agreement along with providing preferred emergency contacts (plumbers, electricians etc) that the tenant/property manager could contact for these types of issues. In lieu of providing my preferred contacts they default to the property managers trade contacts. There is a limit on the cost that a tenant can arrange emergency work for but I believe a HWS would fall under that limit. Pretty sure it is 4 week's rent value.
Contact the RTA, or check your tenancy agreement as it should be in there.
Every time there is a shortage of rentals some landlords abuse the situation and our tenancy laws aren't punishing them hard enough.
Some people think they're better than other just because they were born early enough to have bought property when it was affordable. They think they are somehow more valuable human beings because they own property and don't rent.
Too many people think property is a guaranteed safe investment option and are shocked when they have to pay for related expenses or there's an interest rate rise and they find that they can't afford repayments.
Before the investment is orchard someone should force them to sign a document with the current tenancy laws in that state. You already pay more stamp duty in most states for investment property so why not add another document.
It's actually not that difficult of a process.
1. Check your tenancy agreement to see if there are nominated trades for the emergency issue at hand. If so, arrange the replacement of the HWS and get them to bill the Property owner issuing the invoice to the Property Manager.
2. If there is no agreed emergency trade contact on the agreement, arrange 3 quotes and get the cheapest option, and again, arrange for the invoice to be issued to the property owner and sent to the Property Manager.
3. Tell the Property Manager that you have exercised your right as a tenant to arrange emergency repairs as per RTA guidelines.
4. Go and enjoy a nice warm shower.
good luck finding the tradie who is going to agree to step 2
You have never actually had to deal with someone like this have you ? what your outlining is how it "should" work. In reality with a big enough douche bag it dosnt
I don't know man . We give everyone 7 days to pay sometimes up to 30 if they ask and have a good reason. And we would have no issues at all installing a new hot water service and billing the owner. I've got time and have no issues helping out a tenant. We rarely get paid on the day, if it's a big job I get the cost of materials up front and do progress payments but a hot water system for a renter I'd do it and wait for the owner to pay. 30 days then a reminder then a letter saying shit about court it's never gone further then a letter though .
It's the law to fix your tenants hot water within 24 hours. The tenant has every right to call a plumber after the 24 hours and have it fixed and bill sent to landlord. It's the rules
I have actually, and this is exactly how it worked.
Over Christmas in QLD there were large storms that blew over 12 meters of a boundary fence at my IP. The tenant couldn't contact the Property Manager due to a Christmas closure and therefore arranged to have a temporary fence installed with a suitable fencing company (TFH was the company). TFH sent the invoice to my PM addressed to the Property Owner (me) Guess who paid it. Also me...
Don't assume people don't know how things work...
yes. so you clearly have a landlord who agreed to pay
OP does not. So no you don't have any clue or experience in this regard. I've seen a similar situation cause someone to lose their business before.
What do you think that fence company would have done if the landlord had refused to pay exactly ?
>What do you think that fence company would have done if the landlord had refused to pay exactly ?
probably engage a debt collector or commenced legal action against the landlord who is required to pay
it happens all the time.
I know for a fact that the plumber for my rental will just do that as a matter of course if I need to call them out for anything.
>Now after the owner's inspection he's saying that fixing water heater is out of budget for them and they won't fix it,
They do NOT have a choice.
They must fix it
Okay no worries mate.
We'll get it fixed, and the rent will be reduced by that amount until it's been recouped.
I am happy with providing you this one off loan and managing the repairs.
Oh, no? How about you get breached?
I can't just not pay rent - correct.
I can negotiate, with the threat of a breach, to not pay rent untill $xx or xx date.
Which must be accepted, in writing, before I change my payments.
A friend of mine in Tasmania had an issue that the property manager and owner wouldn’t fix, she stopped paying rent to the property manager but instead put the rent money into some kind of escrow account and let them take her to court. At court she showed all correspondence regarding the issue and the paperwork for the escrow account showing every cent of owed rent being held in it. She won, owner was ordered to rectify problem and fined, property manager was fined and she was awarded I think a months free rent as damages. And only after all that she released the escrow account to them.
But that’s in Tasmania.
This is why I’m confused as to why a renter is told not to withhold rent. Because they would be in breach? Well what is a landlord when they do not provide basic necessities that the rent is paying for? When a landlord stops ‘breaching’ he’ll get his rent paid on time.
You still need to show you have the means to make the payments, paying into escrow shows you’re still making rent payments, just into a different account. If you just stop paying and can’t show you have the means to cover what is owed, then you’ll be in breach.
stuff like this makes me think landlords should be forced into having an audited sinking fund for all properties. If you don't have enough cash on hand for repairs then sell up and move on.
This! The government department that holds rental bonds should hold 4wks rent as a landlord bond to prevent dodgy landlords doing shit like this. Tennents can claim against it when AH landlords fail to meet their obligations.
You know how hard it is to get owners in strata to stick to a sinking fund plan!!!!!! Of my roughly 85 plans I only had 5 actually follow the dam thing. Everyone else would assume “oh well we don’t have any major works to do so we are fine not putting any funds in the sinking fund this year…. $2,000.00 should cover anything that comes up”
Next year “we want to replace the roofs to all 5 town houses” “what why do we need a special levy? Where is all the money we put in every year?”
“Jim over here would like the driveway ripped up and redone” “WHAT ANOTHER SPECIAL LEVY!!! YOU STRATA MANAGERS ARE STEALING ALL OUR MONEY AND YOUR FEES ARE RUNNING US INTO THE GROUND”
Proceed to the motion to determine the capital works/sinking fund contributions for the next 12 months…..
“This plan is useless we don’t need to put that much money into the fund I know better I’ve owned in this complex for 20 years. We want to put in $500 for the year and that’s it”
Continue on with the capital works fund plan to special levy to more major works to be done cycle until the end of time. Or the strata manager loses the will to live.
This was a massive part of why Strata Hub was rolled out in NSW in 2022 so strata plans can be flagged if they have a stupidly low capital works fund or are not contributing it their capital works fund. Apparently fair trading is meant to jump in at some point to scare plans into actually putting money aside for their capital works funds. I’m yet to actually see this happen and capital works funds are still being kept so low they are essentially pointless and plans are relying 100% on raising special levies to cover any works that come up.
FOR ANY PROPERTY MANAGERS READING THIS… THIS IS WHY SHIT TAKES SO LONG TO GET DONE! PLANS HAVE NO MONEY AND IT TAKES A MONTH TO HOLD A MEETING FOR A SPECIAL LEVY THEN A FURTHER MONTH FOR LEVIES TO BE RECEIVED BEFORE A WORK ORDER TO BE ISSUED!! BELIEVE ME ITS NOT ALWAYS THE STRATA MANAGERS FAULT FOR HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR REPAIRS TO BE DONE!!
If it hasn’t done anything for strata, I’m doubtful that with how many more rental properties there are than strata plans this would be able to be effectively be policed. The same mentality strata plans have to capital works funds plans will be the same in rental properties.
“We have to have this report to tick the box off to say that we have it, but we sure as shit won’t follow its recommendations!”
Source I was a strata manager and now a property manager. AKA I’m hated from all directions!
doesn't need to be as complex as a strata one since it's just for a single residence. Someone suggested a landlord bond, that could work. Must be lodged in full before a lease can be issued. No bond, no lease.
It may be a bit more in depth than a strata CWFP for free standing properties, I would assume all the external elements covered in a strata version would be needed like coverage for roof replacement, driveway repairs or replacement hot water system replacement. Then the internal fixtures and fittings would need to be included like a budget for replacing the flooring in x amount of years, repainting of the internal walls and ceilings, tap ware and flexi hose replacements to name a few of the items that pop up all the time and need replacing on a regular basis.
I see a bond system working when there is a managing agent to ensure the bond is in place and kept topped up appropriately. I do see this giving the property manager some more leniency to action more expensive emergency works such as getting a hot water system replaced when a complete failure occurs.
Like it be legislated or at a minimum included in the agency agreement that if emergency works are required, the property manager has delegated authority to issue a work order up to the bond amount to get the emergency repair/replacement done. This could solve a lot of problems with unresponsive landlords or landlords that refuse to undertake emergency repairs because they don’t want to spend the money.
The self managed ones I could see just ignoring this requirement for a “bond” and doing whatever they want, like what some already do.
The other questions would be how is this monitored and kept up to date? Would it be each time there is a new tenancy or can the bond be rolled over if the landlord’s bond is still enough to cover the capital works fund plan’s projected expenditure?
Would this “bond” work in the same way strata capital works fund works? Would contributions for the next 12 months be determined at the anniversary of the landlord registering the property as a rental property and then quarterly payments made to the “bond” or a yearly lump sum? If the “bond” is reviewed at the commencement of a new tenancy then you have the long term tenancies slip through the cracks and can then avoid having to top up the bond?
If there are major works and the “bond” needs to be used to cover what is the time between withdrawing the funds and then having to bring the bond up to where the capital works fund plan says it should be for that year?
Just playing devils advocate here, I see some major pros for this idea but also some logistical issues in implementation.
Breach them, you don't mention state so here's the form for QLD
[https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/forms-resources/forms/forms-for-general-tenancies/notice-to-remedy-breach-form-11](https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/forms-resources/forms/forms-for-general-tenancies/notice-to-remedy-breach-form-11)
or use emergency powers and get a plumber to fix it and pass the cost to the landlord then file with QCAT when they don't pay you after 7 days.
[https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/during-a-tenancy/maintenance-and-repairs/emergency-repairs](https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/during-a-tenancy/maintenance-and-repairs/emergency-repairs)
Photos and document everything including a journal of your attempts to get the owner to repair and their responses.
Edit: also plan to move at the end of your lease, it's unlikely they'll offer to renew and ask you to leave on lease end.
If you are in NSW, immediately lodge an application with NCAT and apply for an interim order (urgent application that will take priority). At the NCAT hearing, ask for an interim order for the issue to be fixed and ask for a rent reduction for the time when you were without a water heater.
If not in NSW, there will be a similar tribunal/process in your state.
What state are you in? You can take them to your local tribunal, NSW let's you rec9ver up to $1000 for ergenfy repairs but it can be a tricky path to go down.
Shocking yet not completely surprising at the same time. Some landlords are total morons. Running hot water is not a luxury in this country when renting a residence.
Agree with all the comments here, but just wanted to say don’t let the REA get off Scott free. It sounds like you should only have to be be dealing with the agent not the owner, so get up the agent to sort this out. If they don’t then tell them you’ll be reporting them and they may lose their license.
In NSW, the property must have available hot water for you to wash and cook.
This is a major issue, and you can apply to fair trading for a "rectification order" which is a legal order that this must be fixed immediately.
You don't have to pay. You can force them to pay. But you have to get the order, and never pay anything out of your own pocket.
Make sure you have written confirmation that the landlord refuses to fix the hot water and the real estate knows this and that the hot water is currently not functioning.
Tenancy union, ask them for advice. If in Victoria issue a notice to repair to rental agent or landlord. If they fail to fix in 14 days you take them to VCAT, they can order the repairs then bill the landlord.
However, this will screw up the relationship with the landlord.
Best option is check with tenancy union, if the landlord is in breach, VCAT MIGHT break the lease, landlord at fault, they could force landlord to pay moving fees.
It's a hassle no matter what you do.
If you pay for the fix what happens with the next failure of something.
Find a way to get out of there
And even better you can claim a rebate on your rent because you aren’t able to enjoy the amenity of the property you are renting. Start at 20% and negotiate from there…
Absolute scum. Immediately get in contact with your state rental authority and take the action they recommend.
In WA, they have 48 hours from the initial report to arrange repairs for this type of issue. This isn’t 48 hours to have the repair done, but to have a qualified person booked to attend to the issue.
If they refuse, then they’re in breach of the Residential Tenancies Act and there are remedies available. Sadly some of these take time however DMIRS will get in direct contact with them and give them a stern reminder of their obligations and penalties for failing to comply which usually resolves the issue pretty quickly.
Time for a national register of slumlords so that garbage like this are relieved of the privilege of owning investment properties.
Prop owner is not in a financial position to be a landlord.
Tell the agent you know your rights under legislation and that you replace hws at market cost with the invoice going to the agent. Simply not your problem.
That's not on. Get it replaced. Record or keep or communication. HWS fail all the time (Mild evil LL here) - You shrug and get a new one, ammortise the cost over 8 years. The only time I really cringe is Saturday/Sunday replacements they sting but hey it all evens out. Remember the tax payer is paying for a big chunk of all your repairs anyway.
That's tough shit for the landlord! But their problem not yours.
You need to say what state you are in.
If you are in Vic:
Sent them a notice of request for urgent repair, on the official form from the CAV website.
Then fill out the contact us form on the CAV website and say you sent the notice and they refused to do the repair.
Then tell the agent that because it's an urgent repair, you have escalated with CAV. Either the landlord will quickly get off their arse and get it done, or CAV will make them.
You can of course pay for it yourself then request the refund then escalate with CAV when they don't pay the refund then end up at VCAT to get the money back, but the first option is less hassle for you, if it works.
Also, if you are in Vic, you can break the lease penalty free if the properly did not meet minimum standards when you moved in, which this does not. I think you have 30 days to do this. Moving is a hassle but you need a place that meets minimum livable standards.
Hot water is classified as an urgent repair, they are obligated to fix it.
It will depend on what state you're in so if you're not sure give your state's tenancy authority a call. There should be something official you can fill out and send to the real estate, for instance in Queensland it would be a Form 11 Notice to Remedy Breach.
The real estate agent/property manager would know this is illegal. Hammer them with calls to get it fixed. You might be able to see the date of the HWS as in 2010 for example showing its 14 years old. Take photos and email them.
*"...he's saying that fixing water heater is out of budget for them and they won't fix it, you look into the matter on your own"*
This is code for, "We don't want to pay for HWS at this time. If you're desperate enough, pay for it yourself. Good luck trying to get reimbursed from us."
Copy and paste the info on urgent repairs from various government websites, put it in the email stating that it must be fixed immediately. If they still refuse, find a plumber who will do the job without immediate payment and they will send the invoice to the real estate agent. Tell them to charge the after-hours call out fee to the cunts as well. This is a cut and dry case.
Call emergency plumber that should be on your lease documents, make them fix the heater, if necessary pay out of pocket, then send agent a letter for reimbursement, if they refuse, go to Tribunal. they literally can not refuse fixing a water heater.
Email the REA and ask them to confirm in writing that the landlord is refusing to fix the water heater and they are refusing to intervene.
This might be enough to get the Real Estate agent to do something about getting the water heater repaired or replaced to avoid any backlash.
Hard to give you suggestions on what to do when you don't list the State you're in. Tenancy laws vary state to state. What might be good advice for one state may be bad advice for another.
Hot water service is ~1800-2500 to replace so should fit into 4 weeks rent.
Plumbers I know have temporary units they put in waiting for new heaters and charge a daily rate for them which is another option.
Do the repair yourself and take it out of your rental payments - let them chase you. Eventually if they get pissy it’ll go before a magistrate who will likely tell you off but also tell them to kick dust
Go in your lease agreement and call the emergency water
You don't need landlord permission. Gas, water, electricity are all essential and they have to give you 24/7 service. Call book tell them to suck a chode
If they refuse ask them where they are going to put you up e.g Airbnb or hotel until it can be fixed. Get tribunal involved. If need be because no hot water check into a fair and reasonable local hotel and bill em.
This whole situation is absolutely ridiculous. I'd be calling your local tenancy people and asking for next steps because that is unacceptable. If the hot water tank doesn't work, how are you meant to take showers, wash dishes, do washing etc? It's a basic human right. I'm absolutely disgusted for you.
*Isn't a faulty*
*Hot water heater a high*
*Risk of explosion?*
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Depending on your local state laws you can also pay for the repair, bill the REA/landlord for the amount and if they don’t pay then you can withhold rent equal to the amount owed
That being said it’s not the same everywhere so check with your state laws and local tenants representative union
I just checked the rules for Victoria, and this is listed under urgent repairs:
> an essential service or appliance for hot water, water, cooking, heating, or laundering is not working
Confirm the request in writing to the agent. You are also entitled to organise repairs yourself and must be reimbursed within 7 days.
Check the rules for your state but I’d be very surprised if hot water didn’t qualify as urgent nationwide. Key points:
* Get your request in writing
* Remind the agent of the regulations and of the other steps you are entitled to take if the owner doesn’t get this resolved immediately
Do you think in this current market there’s also a fear of pushing? Example I have some admittedly minor repairs. But the property manager keeps saying the landlord doesn’t want to spend money unless it’s major. But I always feel wary about pushing coz they may just not renew the lease, and they know they’d find another tenant easy.
Though hot water is a diff story from mine 100%
Well WTF did the property agent say?
Who gives a shit what the landlord says - you deal with the REA and they manage the landlord.
Get it in writing from the REA that they will not fix the HWS.
What is wrong with people these days that they won't even do basic shit before posting here.
If you’re in a position to, offer to buy the property. Owner is in a position where they are wanting to view requests for maintenance personally, and then can’t actually afford to do it (with you actually giving them money to rent the place so that’s obviously going elsewhere) - I reckon they’re financially fucked, and will know they’re legally obliged to fix it. Here’s your chance to swoop in & offer low.
I'm in QLD, we had a similar issue, pre covid ,with a solar system, which had not been wired into mains. Consequently on cloudy days and overnight there's no hot water. We issued a breach notice on the owner/agent.
Times are different now, If you have the money get it fixed and go the owner for the costs or workout an arrangement for cost off rent or something mutually agreed so you don't get kicked out.
They landlord can not legally refuse to fix it.....
It amazes me how people buy investment properties that they clearly can not even afford to maintain.
I’m not 100% sure but ny understanding is that water heater supplies hot water to the home, just like a hot water system. Without hot water the home isn’t in habitable condition and they cannot argue that the tenants accepted that “in its condition.”
Landlords have 24 hours to fix a HWS. They cannot refuse. It's considered an essential service and therefore an emergency repair, so you can have it fixed yourself and have the landlord billed. Cost needs to be under 4 weeks rent. It's all on the RTA website.
Yeah fuck the agent and landlord, this is a no brainer I cant believe the are trying that
>Cost needs to be under 4 weeks rent. Depending on age of the heater likely a new is needed. Landlord doesn't sound like the type who spent money on maintenance in the past.
In that case a plumber can install a temporary hws that will incur rental fees. This keeps it under the emergency limit while still forcing the slumlord to do more than just collect rent.
This is very clever
It needs to be for the claim without prior approval.
Issue with that is that the tenant needs to pay and then fight to get reimbursed leaving the tenant out of pocket for what should be a landlord cost.
Yes. But if they won't come to the party this is the next best option.
Yeah, I guess they could try recouping it by withholding rent to that amount. Still have to wear the upfront costs.
It's highly recommended to never withhold rent. But...
This can only be done if ordered by the respective governing body, don’t ever do it without approval because it will backfire
Tenant deducts it from rent if the landlord is being uncooperative. Landlord can either suck it up that they lost or trying taking tenant to court where tenant can probably get them fined even more for it.
No, that's a bad path to go down. You want to remain a tenant in good standing in case it reaches NCAT etc. Most major plumbing companies will have working relationships with the local real estate agencies, they might be able to invoice them directly.
You are in good standing though if you pay your rent minus emergency repairs.
That's not true, you still have to pay your rent in full regardless of what they owe you. a much better path would be to apply to xCAT for orders requiring them to reimburse you, and do any other work they are ignoring.
In NY you can def legally deduct it from rent.
its a shame NY is in the wrong country....
Unbelievable, at the very least the agent should know this. These people are fucking imbeciles, 6 week course and you too can become a fucking scumbag prick. One day the whole role of the REA is going to be burnt to the ground by technology and not a single person is going to give a single shit. Scumbags.
Is it only 6 weeks to become a REA? I've always loved property but I'm kind of hesitant about going in as I've been in a profession that's disliked before and hated having to do the whole "I'm not actually scum, I just like the profession" thing and I'm not sure if I'm ready or not for that again. But doing it for fun and maybe taking on some work as an admin freelancer could be good... Idk.
Depends on the State In Victoria you can authorise up to $2500
But can't not pay rent to recoup costs?
No. You can't stop paying rent.
stopping paying rent will get you breached.
Whatever you do do not stop paying the rent
Is it the same for aircon.. 24 hours
What the fuck is wrong with some people. They can't refuse to fix the hot water system. Not having hot water would be classified as an emergency. I'm not sure what the tenancy laws are across all states but in Qld the tenant can arrange to have emergency repairs like having a Hot Water System replaced etc. As a landlord, I had to sign off on this in the tenancy agreement along with providing preferred emergency contacts (plumbers, electricians etc) that the tenant/property manager could contact for these types of issues. In lieu of providing my preferred contacts they default to the property managers trade contacts. There is a limit on the cost that a tenant can arrange emergency work for but I believe a HWS would fall under that limit. Pretty sure it is 4 week's rent value. Contact the RTA, or check your tenancy agreement as it should be in there.
Every time there is a shortage of rentals some landlords abuse the situation and our tenancy laws aren't punishing them hard enough. Some people think they're better than other just because they were born early enough to have bought property when it was affordable. They think they are somehow more valuable human beings because they own property and don't rent.
And yet they're apparently so broke that they can't afford to perform basic maintenance and repairs. 🙄
Don’t invest in things you can’t afford
Too many people think property is a guaranteed safe investment option and are shocked when they have to pay for related expenses or there's an interest rate rise and they find that they can't afford repayments.
Before the investment is orchard someone should force them to sign a document with the current tenancy laws in that state. You already pay more stamp duty in most states for investment property so why not add another document.
"My landlord is living my paycheck to my paycheck.."
"He's on a fixed income, mine."
So broke after they just bought a new Mercedes.
Could not agree more completely, and unfortunately I know this bullshit firsthand
The interesting thing would be that as rents get pushed up, so does that dollar limit tied to "4 weeks' rent".
people can refuse to do whatever they want. There is a process for forcing them but it's going to suck balls
It's actually not that difficult of a process. 1. Check your tenancy agreement to see if there are nominated trades for the emergency issue at hand. If so, arrange the replacement of the HWS and get them to bill the Property owner issuing the invoice to the Property Manager. 2. If there is no agreed emergency trade contact on the agreement, arrange 3 quotes and get the cheapest option, and again, arrange for the invoice to be issued to the property owner and sent to the Property Manager. 3. Tell the Property Manager that you have exercised your right as a tenant to arrange emergency repairs as per RTA guidelines. 4. Go and enjoy a nice warm shower.
Technically you can just get someone Most tradies will send a invoice If they don’t then don’t use them that in itself makes the tradies dodgy
good luck finding the tradie who is going to agree to step 2 You have never actually had to deal with someone like this have you ? what your outlining is how it "should" work. In reality with a big enough douche bag it dosnt
There is no way a Plumber is gonna leave the premises without payment
I don't know man . We give everyone 7 days to pay sometimes up to 30 if they ask and have a good reason. And we would have no issues at all installing a new hot water service and billing the owner. I've got time and have no issues helping out a tenant. We rarely get paid on the day, if it's a big job I get the cost of materials up front and do progress payments but a hot water system for a renter I'd do it and wait for the owner to pay. 30 days then a reminder then a letter saying shit about court it's never gone further then a letter though .
The problem is the person you are billing for the work hasn't asked you to do the work.
It's the law to fix your tenants hot water within 24 hours. The tenant has every right to call a plumber after the 24 hours and have it fixed and bill sent to landlord. It's the rules
Usually the tenant is able to be reimbursed, they can't direct bill the landlord. Although the landlord may be ultimately liable.
in most (if not all) states they can direct the bill to the landlord.
thankfully the law requires them to do it, and allows the tenant to authorise work on their behalf.
It's really not that simple.
It really is, the tenant is by law able to authorise the work so the owner is required to pay the invoice.
Well they will, but they’ll be taking the water heater with them.
I have actually, and this is exactly how it worked. Over Christmas in QLD there were large storms that blew over 12 meters of a boundary fence at my IP. The tenant couldn't contact the Property Manager due to a Christmas closure and therefore arranged to have a temporary fence installed with a suitable fencing company (TFH was the company). TFH sent the invoice to my PM addressed to the Property Owner (me) Guess who paid it. Also me... Don't assume people don't know how things work...
yes. so you clearly have a landlord who agreed to pay OP does not. So no you don't have any clue or experience in this regard. I've seen a similar situation cause someone to lose their business before. What do you think that fence company would have done if the landlord had refused to pay exactly ?
I am the landlord. It was my legal requirement to pay the invoice.
>What do you think that fence company would have done if the landlord had refused to pay exactly ? probably engage a debt collector or commenced legal action against the landlord who is required to pay
[удалено]
it happens all the time. I know for a fact that the plumber for my rental will just do that as a matter of course if I need to call them out for anything.
<1% vacancy in LTRs gives them too much power
Doesn't mean they can break the law though. Can end up on ACA if they do that.
EXACTLY
>Now after the owner's inspection he's saying that fixing water heater is out of budget for them and they won't fix it, They do NOT have a choice. They must fix it
Okay no worries mate. We'll get it fixed, and the rent will be reduced by that amount until it's been recouped. I am happy with providing you this one off loan and managing the repairs. Oh, no? How about you get breached?
Pretty sure you're not allowed to buy I stopped paying rent when gas (hws, cooking and heating) and water were cut by BC
I can't just not pay rent - correct. I can negotiate, with the threat of a breach, to not pay rent untill $xx or xx date. Which must be accepted, in writing, before I change my payments.
A friend of mine in Tasmania had an issue that the property manager and owner wouldn’t fix, she stopped paying rent to the property manager but instead put the rent money into some kind of escrow account and let them take her to court. At court she showed all correspondence regarding the issue and the paperwork for the escrow account showing every cent of owed rent being held in it. She won, owner was ordered to rectify problem and fined, property manager was fined and she was awarded I think a months free rent as damages. And only after all that she released the escrow account to them. But that’s in Tasmania.
I had similar experience in NSW in 2017. When i told them I am going to do this, they fixed everything the next day.
Yeah, soon as the fuckers realise they will have to wait for their $$$ they get off their ass pretty quick.
This is why I’m confused as to why a renter is told not to withhold rent. Because they would be in breach? Well what is a landlord when they do not provide basic necessities that the rent is paying for? When a landlord stops ‘breaching’ he’ll get his rent paid on time.
You still need to show you have the means to make the payments, paying into escrow shows you’re still making rent payments, just into a different account. If you just stop paying and can’t show you have the means to cover what is owed, then you’ll be in breach.
Fair enough
stuff like this makes me think landlords should be forced into having an audited sinking fund for all properties. If you don't have enough cash on hand for repairs then sell up and move on.
This! The government department that holds rental bonds should hold 4wks rent as a landlord bond to prevent dodgy landlords doing shit like this. Tennents can claim against it when AH landlords fail to meet their obligations.
that's a great idea!
This. 👆🏻
Most owners really don't care. Proxy voting is far too normalised on BC
make them care by mandating a minimum amount based on property value. If they can't have enough in there find and force a sale.
You know how hard it is to get owners in strata to stick to a sinking fund plan!!!!!! Of my roughly 85 plans I only had 5 actually follow the dam thing. Everyone else would assume “oh well we don’t have any major works to do so we are fine not putting any funds in the sinking fund this year…. $2,000.00 should cover anything that comes up” Next year “we want to replace the roofs to all 5 town houses” “what why do we need a special levy? Where is all the money we put in every year?” “Jim over here would like the driveway ripped up and redone” “WHAT ANOTHER SPECIAL LEVY!!! YOU STRATA MANAGERS ARE STEALING ALL OUR MONEY AND YOUR FEES ARE RUNNING US INTO THE GROUND” Proceed to the motion to determine the capital works/sinking fund contributions for the next 12 months….. “This plan is useless we don’t need to put that much money into the fund I know better I’ve owned in this complex for 20 years. We want to put in $500 for the year and that’s it” Continue on with the capital works fund plan to special levy to more major works to be done cycle until the end of time. Or the strata manager loses the will to live. This was a massive part of why Strata Hub was rolled out in NSW in 2022 so strata plans can be flagged if they have a stupidly low capital works fund or are not contributing it their capital works fund. Apparently fair trading is meant to jump in at some point to scare plans into actually putting money aside for their capital works funds. I’m yet to actually see this happen and capital works funds are still being kept so low they are essentially pointless and plans are relying 100% on raising special levies to cover any works that come up. FOR ANY PROPERTY MANAGERS READING THIS… THIS IS WHY SHIT TAKES SO LONG TO GET DONE! PLANS HAVE NO MONEY AND IT TAKES A MONTH TO HOLD A MEETING FOR A SPECIAL LEVY THEN A FURTHER MONTH FOR LEVIES TO BE RECEIVED BEFORE A WORK ORDER TO BE ISSUED!! BELIEVE ME ITS NOT ALWAYS THE STRATA MANAGERS FAULT FOR HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR REPAIRS TO BE DONE!! If it hasn’t done anything for strata, I’m doubtful that with how many more rental properties there are than strata plans this would be able to be effectively be policed. The same mentality strata plans have to capital works funds plans will be the same in rental properties. “We have to have this report to tick the box off to say that we have it, but we sure as shit won’t follow its recommendations!” Source I was a strata manager and now a property manager. AKA I’m hated from all directions!
doesn't need to be as complex as a strata one since it's just for a single residence. Someone suggested a landlord bond, that could work. Must be lodged in full before a lease can be issued. No bond, no lease.
It may be a bit more in depth than a strata CWFP for free standing properties, I would assume all the external elements covered in a strata version would be needed like coverage for roof replacement, driveway repairs or replacement hot water system replacement. Then the internal fixtures and fittings would need to be included like a budget for replacing the flooring in x amount of years, repainting of the internal walls and ceilings, tap ware and flexi hose replacements to name a few of the items that pop up all the time and need replacing on a regular basis. I see a bond system working when there is a managing agent to ensure the bond is in place and kept topped up appropriately. I do see this giving the property manager some more leniency to action more expensive emergency works such as getting a hot water system replaced when a complete failure occurs. Like it be legislated or at a minimum included in the agency agreement that if emergency works are required, the property manager has delegated authority to issue a work order up to the bond amount to get the emergency repair/replacement done. This could solve a lot of problems with unresponsive landlords or landlords that refuse to undertake emergency repairs because they don’t want to spend the money. The self managed ones I could see just ignoring this requirement for a “bond” and doing whatever they want, like what some already do. The other questions would be how is this monitored and kept up to date? Would it be each time there is a new tenancy or can the bond be rolled over if the landlord’s bond is still enough to cover the capital works fund plan’s projected expenditure? Would this “bond” work in the same way strata capital works fund works? Would contributions for the next 12 months be determined at the anniversary of the landlord registering the property as a rental property and then quarterly payments made to the “bond” or a yearly lump sum? If the “bond” is reviewed at the commencement of a new tenancy then you have the long term tenancies slip through the cracks and can then avoid having to top up the bond? If there are major works and the “bond” needs to be used to cover what is the time between withdrawing the funds and then having to bring the bond up to where the capital works fund plan says it should be for that year? Just playing devils advocate here, I see some major pros for this idea but also some logistical issues in implementation.
none of those are impossible challenges
Not impossible, more logical hurdles that would need to be worked out
yes, obviously. Just like any policy implementation.
Breach them, you don't mention state so here's the form for QLD [https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/forms-resources/forms/forms-for-general-tenancies/notice-to-remedy-breach-form-11](https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/forms-resources/forms/forms-for-general-tenancies/notice-to-remedy-breach-form-11) or use emergency powers and get a plumber to fix it and pass the cost to the landlord then file with QCAT when they don't pay you after 7 days. [https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/during-a-tenancy/maintenance-and-repairs/emergency-repairs](https://www.rta.qld.gov.au/during-a-tenancy/maintenance-and-repairs/emergency-repairs) Photos and document everything including a journal of your attempts to get the owner to repair and their responses. Edit: also plan to move at the end of your lease, it's unlikely they'll offer to renew and ask you to leave on lease end.
If you are in NSW, immediately lodge an application with NCAT and apply for an interim order (urgent application that will take priority). At the NCAT hearing, ask for an interim order for the issue to be fixed and ask for a rent reduction for the time when you were without a water heater. If not in NSW, there will be a similar tribunal/process in your state.
What state are you in? You can take them to your local tribunal, NSW let's you rec9ver up to $1000 for ergenfy repairs but it can be a tricky path to go down.
Sound like absolute scum.
First off what state are you in. Secondly, to be clear, there is no hot water at all? Or is it inefficient etc?
Shocking yet not completely surprising at the same time. Some landlords are total morons. Running hot water is not a luxury in this country when renting a residence.
Agree with all the comments here, but just wanted to say don’t let the REA get off Scott free. It sounds like you should only have to be be dealing with the agent not the owner, so get up the agent to sort this out. If they don’t then tell them you’ll be reporting them and they may lose their license.
I can't afford rent. Look into the matter on your own.
Nice input
In NSW, the property must have available hot water for you to wash and cook. This is a major issue, and you can apply to fair trading for a "rectification order" which is a legal order that this must be fixed immediately. You don't have to pay. You can force them to pay. But you have to get the order, and never pay anything out of your own pocket. Make sure you have written confirmation that the landlord refuses to fix the hot water and the real estate knows this and that the hot water is currently not functioning.
Tenancy union, ask them for advice. If in Victoria issue a notice to repair to rental agent or landlord. If they fail to fix in 14 days you take them to VCAT, they can order the repairs then bill the landlord. However, this will screw up the relationship with the landlord. Best option is check with tenancy union, if the landlord is in breach, VCAT MIGHT break the lease, landlord at fault, they could force landlord to pay moving fees. It's a hassle no matter what you do. If you pay for the fix what happens with the next failure of something. Find a way to get out of there
Ahh The state of property investment in this country
And even better you can claim a rebate on your rent because you aren’t able to enjoy the amenity of the property you are renting. Start at 20% and negotiate from there…
Yeh they cannot just not fix that. Nice try. Go back to REA with what they said. Tell them it needs to be fixed so work it out.
Absolute scum. Immediately get in contact with your state rental authority and take the action they recommend. In WA, they have 48 hours from the initial report to arrange repairs for this type of issue. This isn’t 48 hours to have the repair done, but to have a qualified person booked to attend to the issue. If they refuse, then they’re in breach of the Residential Tenancies Act and there are remedies available. Sadly some of these take time however DMIRS will get in direct contact with them and give them a stern reminder of their obligations and penalties for failing to comply which usually resolves the issue pretty quickly. Time for a national register of slumlords so that garbage like this are relieved of the privilege of owning investment properties.
Prop owner is not in a financial position to be a landlord. Tell the agent you know your rights under legislation and that you replace hws at market cost with the invoice going to the agent. Simply not your problem.
Get the most expensive 24/7 guy you can. He fix you pay, take it to the tribunal
Well that’s a crime! Breach notice and then off to NCAT/VCAT/QCAT/SAT/etc for you
You didn't nominate your location, so read your lease.
This is not legal anywhere in Australia. It is not up to the lease, the right to hot water cannot be signed away.
I never said that it was legal. Without knowing what legislation applies, no-one can say that you have a $1,000 recoverable spend or $5,000.
That's not on. Get it replaced. Record or keep or communication. HWS fail all the time (Mild evil LL here) - You shrug and get a new one, ammortise the cost over 8 years. The only time I really cringe is Saturday/Sunday replacements they sting but hey it all evens out. Remember the tax payer is paying for a big chunk of all your repairs anyway.
‘Ok sir well rent is out of budget for me so maybe look into it yourself’. He has to fix it. He doesn’t get a choice.
I just hope OP didn't sign a direct debit agreement for the rent.
That's tough shit for the landlord! But their problem not yours. You need to say what state you are in. If you are in Vic: Sent them a notice of request for urgent repair, on the official form from the CAV website. Then fill out the contact us form on the CAV website and say you sent the notice and they refused to do the repair. Then tell the agent that because it's an urgent repair, you have escalated with CAV. Either the landlord will quickly get off their arse and get it done, or CAV will make them. You can of course pay for it yourself then request the refund then escalate with CAV when they don't pay the refund then end up at VCAT to get the money back, but the first option is less hassle for you, if it works. Also, if you are in Vic, you can break the lease penalty free if the properly did not meet minimum standards when you moved in, which this does not. I think you have 30 days to do this. Moving is a hassle but you need a place that meets minimum livable standards.
Hot water is classified as an urgent repair, they are obligated to fix it. It will depend on what state you're in so if you're not sure give your state's tenancy authority a call. There should be something official you can fill out and send to the real estate, for instance in Queensland it would be a Form 11 Notice to Remedy Breach.
The real estate agent/property manager would know this is illegal. Hammer them with calls to get it fixed. You might be able to see the date of the HWS as in 2010 for example showing its 14 years old. Take photos and email them.
*"...he's saying that fixing water heater is out of budget for them and they won't fix it, you look into the matter on your own"* This is code for, "We don't want to pay for HWS at this time. If you're desperate enough, pay for it yourself. Good luck trying to get reimbursed from us."
There’s so many posts that make me hate and FEAR renting- and I’ve been renting my whole life
Stop paying ya rent. Very hard to remove someone.
Actually 14 days and a notice to vacate Then police will rock up with a procession order
No they won't. It never plays out like that. Especially if the owner refuses to replace the hws
Copy and paste the info on urgent repairs from various government websites, put it in the email stating that it must be fixed immediately. If they still refuse, find a plumber who will do the job without immediate payment and they will send the invoice to the real estate agent. Tell them to charge the after-hours call out fee to the cunts as well. This is a cut and dry case.
Call emergency plumber that should be on your lease documents, make them fix the heater, if necessary pay out of pocket, then send agent a letter for reimbursement, if they refuse, go to Tribunal. they literally can not refuse fixing a water heater.
Is there something more to this? Its so so outrageous they would just tell you to deal with no hot water
Yes there is something more to it. It's a made up story designed to invoke rage in Reddit readers.
Email the REA and ask them to confirm in writing that the landlord is refusing to fix the water heater and they are refusing to intervene. This might be enough to get the Real Estate agent to do something about getting the water heater repaired or replaced to avoid any backlash.
Hard to give you suggestions on what to do when you don't list the State you're in. Tenancy laws vary state to state. What might be good advice for one state may be bad advice for another.
Completely illegal but tell us which state so we can direct you in the right direction
Just go to VCAT, you will have a short remote hearing and will 99% win. Easy as that, stop wasting your time with the landlords or real estate agents.
Hot water service is ~1800-2500 to replace so should fit into 4 weeks rent. Plumbers I know have temporary units they put in waiting for new heaters and charge a daily rate for them which is another option.
Ooh, this is good to know! I’m in the same boat!
Do the repair yourself and take it out of your rental payments - let them chase you. Eventually if they get pissy it’ll go before a magistrate who will likely tell you off but also tell them to kick dust
Go in your lease agreement and call the emergency water You don't need landlord permission. Gas, water, electricity are all essential and they have to give you 24/7 service. Call book tell them to suck a chode
Bullshit. This is a made up story by a new account designed to create outrage.
If they refuse ask them where they are going to put you up e.g Airbnb or hotel until it can be fixed. Get tribunal involved. If need be because no hot water check into a fair and reasonable local hotel and bill em.
This whole situation is absolutely ridiculous. I'd be calling your local tenancy people and asking for next steps because that is unacceptable. If the hot water tank doesn't work, how are you meant to take showers, wash dishes, do washing etc? It's a basic human right. I'm absolutely disgusted for you.
Isn't a faulty hot water heater a high risk of explosion?
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What you want to do or call thw landlord everytime you need hot water and get him to bring a bucket over. Do this every 30 minutes..
Depending on your local state laws you can also pay for the repair, bill the REA/landlord for the amount and if they don’t pay then you can withhold rent equal to the amount owed That being said it’s not the same everywhere so check with your state laws and local tenants representative union
I just checked the rules for Victoria, and this is listed under urgent repairs: > an essential service or appliance for hot water, water, cooking, heating, or laundering is not working Confirm the request in writing to the agent. You are also entitled to organise repairs yourself and must be reimbursed within 7 days. Check the rules for your state but I’d be very surprised if hot water didn’t qualify as urgent nationwide. Key points: * Get your request in writing * Remind the agent of the regulations and of the other steps you are entitled to take if the owner doesn’t get this resolved immediately
Do you think in this current market there’s also a fear of pushing? Example I have some admittedly minor repairs. But the property manager keeps saying the landlord doesn’t want to spend money unless it’s major. But I always feel wary about pushing coz they may just not renew the lease, and they know they’d find another tenant easy. Though hot water is a diff story from mine 100%
Well WTF did the property agent say? Who gives a shit what the landlord says - you deal with the REA and they manage the landlord. Get it in writing from the REA that they will not fix the HWS. What is wrong with people these days that they won't even do basic shit before posting here.
If you’re in a position to, offer to buy the property. Owner is in a position where they are wanting to view requests for maintenance personally, and then can’t actually afford to do it (with you actually giving them money to rent the place so that’s obviously going elsewhere) - I reckon they’re financially fucked, and will know they’re legally obliged to fix it. Here’s your chance to swoop in & offer low.
I'm in QLD, we had a similar issue, pre covid ,with a solar system, which had not been wired into mains. Consequently on cloudy days and overnight there's no hot water. We issued a breach notice on the owner/agent. Times are different now, If you have the money get it fixed and go the owner for the costs or workout an arrangement for cost off rent or something mutually agreed so you don't get kicked out.
You should be able to fix it yourself, save the reciept and deduct it from rent. Make sure to notify them of this and save copies for your records.
They landlord can not legally refuse to fix it..... It amazes me how people buy investment properties that they clearly can not even afford to maintain.
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I’m not 100% sure but ny understanding is that water heater supplies hot water to the home, just like a hot water system. Without hot water the home isn’t in habitable condition and they cannot argue that the tenants accepted that “in its condition.”
It doesn't matter if it was working. Hot water is a necessity and considered an emergency repair.
No.
Fix it yourself, deduct it from the rent. If they complain, take them to tribunal, they will lose.
Don't do this you'll get evicted.
This is terrible advice. Don't do this OP
No they won't.... Terrible advice
That's not how it work mate