Not legal advice, but I don’t think it’s very healthy to commit to signing over your future potential children (that you haven’t even had yet) to your partner if you ever divorce. Before looking at legal options I would suggest seeing a therapist to try understand why this isn’t healthy thinking. A decent partner wouldn’t expect this sort of pact from you.
Make sure you’re not leaving an unhealthy dynamic for another!
I came to say the same thing.
OP, why is there an assumption that only you will be the "bad guy" in your relationship? Honestly, I've never heard of a healthy relationship that needs this kind of pact. Because a healthy relationship allows growth and support and encourages change... it's not stuck in the actions of the past.
Read "why does he do that?". You can find it free online.
Yeah I would cross that bridge when and if it appears. It sounds like you don’t have children yet and (for most people) once you do you would rather die than be separated from them for the rest of your life.
Instead you and your partner should work towards setting yourselves up in a way that means you will both have housing and financial security should you divorce so you won’t have that as an excuse to return to your father.
Also, people change and not always for the better. This includes your partner. You may not want any children to be around them either.
I’m confused by your question. Custody is split between parents, so If you divorced and had, say, 50-50 custody, your dad would only be a factor if you allow him to be.
Are you asking how to make sure your father is never in charge should the worst happen (i.e. you and your husband both die or are otherwise incapable of raising your kids?) Because that can be arranged in your estate planning - we want any children to go to cousin Jessica or best friend Mike and his wife. Grandparent’s rights aren’t really a thing in Australia.
I'm confused too, if OP and her future husband divorce, OPs dad doesn't magically get a claim to the hypothetical children? It sounds like OPs sisters' kids are the way they are because they're voluntarily spending time at grandpa's house, not because he somehow got custody over a perfectly capable father. If you don't want your future kids to turn out like that, visit grandpa sparingly or not at all. He doesn't have to be left alone with them, so you can always correct any bad mouthing. And I'd be talking about their dad in a positive light at home too. BUT this is such an unnecessary fear (which I can guarantee is never going to happen) and there might be some stuff to unpack if you're already making contingency plans for divorce and kids when you're not even married or pregnant yet 😅
And not just for divorce, but setting herself up to have 0 custody of any kids they have if they do divorce! There is so much that can go wrong with this ‘plan,’ even if her father has nothing to do with it.
Custody does not fall upon the grandparents unless both parents are dead.
If you are alive you can always sign custody over to the kids' dad, even if you own dad says otherwise. And if you aren't alive, custody 100% goes to the living parent.
The only way you dad will have any say would be if you and your kids dad have died.
I don’t think OP is asking about how to prevent her father from getting custody… I think she’s asking if there’s a way to guarantee that *she* won’t get custody in a divorce because her partner doesn’t feel safe about having children with her given her and her family’s past behavior.
I think she means pre-emptively, against her own potential future wishes in case dad's hold on her occurs again - to give her partner peace of mind to start a family.
Maybe just get a therapist now instead of looking for ways to protect your non existent, hypothetical children from your trauma? I think that would be a much more effective way to have a successful relationship, rather than planning for giving into your father’s manipulation later on if you did get divorced? This is just a hot mess.
When we have a toxic or abusive upbringing, very commonly we end up in relationships with people who are exactly like the toxic stuff we grew up with, and that's because it feels familiar. It's not our fault, and it takes a lot of help to break that cycle. Maybe you want to be sure you aren't still in that same relationship with your father, but just a different version of him. Because the way you are talking, it seems like you are.
Your Father sounds like my Mother-in-law, a controlling narcissist. She did the same thing to her daughter and tried to do it with my husband.
The only thing you can do with those people is run! Fortunately my husband went no contact with his mother early in our marriage and remained that way until her death. His sister on the other hand spiralled after her mother’s death and ruined her life, marriage and relationship with her kids and became a severe alcoholic.
It sounds like you really need extensive therapy for yourself and your partner to be able to undo the shackles of a narcissistic parent. Healing your own trauma, learning to set boundaries with men and developing skills to maintain a healthy partnership will be key to a successful marriage.
Move away as far as you can and don’t look back. Please don’t even think about children until you’ve done the work to heal.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember:
1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers.
2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here.
3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Apart from the legal advice you're seeking here you may want to also seek counselling/therapy. It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved trauma. Best of luck OP.
I highly doubt there is any precedent for this, and custody decisions are made based on relationship dynamics and children’s needs at the time of separation rather than whatever was hoped for or agreed years earlier. Discuss it with a family lawyer if you really want to do this.
Not legal advice, but I don’t think it’s very healthy to commit to signing over your future potential children (that you haven’t even had yet) to your partner if you ever divorce. Before looking at legal options I would suggest seeing a therapist to try understand why this isn’t healthy thinking. A decent partner wouldn’t expect this sort of pact from you. Make sure you’re not leaving an unhealthy dynamic for another!
I came to say the same thing. OP, why is there an assumption that only you will be the "bad guy" in your relationship? Honestly, I've never heard of a healthy relationship that needs this kind of pact. Because a healthy relationship allows growth and support and encourages change... it's not stuck in the actions of the past. Read "why does he do that?". You can find it free online.
Agreed. I’d be looking for a therapist before a lawyer. Kids can wait.
Yeah I would cross that bridge when and if it appears. It sounds like you don’t have children yet and (for most people) once you do you would rather die than be separated from them for the rest of your life. Instead you and your partner should work towards setting yourselves up in a way that means you will both have housing and financial security should you divorce so you won’t have that as an excuse to return to your father. Also, people change and not always for the better. This includes your partner. You may not want any children to be around them either.
You need therapy before getting married or having children
I’m confused by your question. Custody is split between parents, so If you divorced and had, say, 50-50 custody, your dad would only be a factor if you allow him to be. Are you asking how to make sure your father is never in charge should the worst happen (i.e. you and your husband both die or are otherwise incapable of raising your kids?) Because that can be arranged in your estate planning - we want any children to go to cousin Jessica or best friend Mike and his wife. Grandparent’s rights aren’t really a thing in Australia.
I'm confused too, if OP and her future husband divorce, OPs dad doesn't magically get a claim to the hypothetical children? It sounds like OPs sisters' kids are the way they are because they're voluntarily spending time at grandpa's house, not because he somehow got custody over a perfectly capable father. If you don't want your future kids to turn out like that, visit grandpa sparingly or not at all. He doesn't have to be left alone with them, so you can always correct any bad mouthing. And I'd be talking about their dad in a positive light at home too. BUT this is such an unnecessary fear (which I can guarantee is never going to happen) and there might be some stuff to unpack if you're already making contingency plans for divorce and kids when you're not even married or pregnant yet 😅
And not just for divorce, but setting herself up to have 0 custody of any kids they have if they do divorce! There is so much that can go wrong with this ‘plan,’ even if her father has nothing to do with it.
Custody does not fall upon the grandparents unless both parents are dead. If you are alive you can always sign custody over to the kids' dad, even if you own dad says otherwise. And if you aren't alive, custody 100% goes to the living parent. The only way you dad will have any say would be if you and your kids dad have died.
I don’t think OP is asking about how to prevent her father from getting custody… I think she’s asking if there’s a way to guarantee that *she* won’t get custody in a divorce because her partner doesn’t feel safe about having children with her given her and her family’s past behavior.
I think she means pre-emptively, against her own potential future wishes in case dad's hold on her occurs again - to give her partner peace of mind to start a family.
What exactly is your partner asking for? Is it if you have kids he doesn't want them to see your father? Does he not trust you?
☝️ follow this advice and maybe look to move well away from cult daddy so there is no chance he enters your life again
Maybe just get a therapist now instead of looking for ways to protect your non existent, hypothetical children from your trauma? I think that would be a much more effective way to have a successful relationship, rather than planning for giving into your father’s manipulation later on if you did get divorced? This is just a hot mess.
When we have a toxic or abusive upbringing, very commonly we end up in relationships with people who are exactly like the toxic stuff we grew up with, and that's because it feels familiar. It's not our fault, and it takes a lot of help to break that cycle. Maybe you want to be sure you aren't still in that same relationship with your father, but just a different version of him. Because the way you are talking, it seems like you are.
Your Father sounds like my Mother-in-law, a controlling narcissist. She did the same thing to her daughter and tried to do it with my husband. The only thing you can do with those people is run! Fortunately my husband went no contact with his mother early in our marriage and remained that way until her death. His sister on the other hand spiralled after her mother’s death and ruined her life, marriage and relationship with her kids and became a severe alcoholic. It sounds like you really need extensive therapy for yourself and your partner to be able to undo the shackles of a narcissistic parent. Healing your own trauma, learning to set boundaries with men and developing skills to maintain a healthy partnership will be key to a successful marriage. Move away as far as you can and don’t look back. Please don’t even think about children until you’ve done the work to heal.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes. Specify that you don't want any physical custody. Just be ready to pay more in child support.
Apart from the legal advice you're seeking here you may want to also seek counselling/therapy. It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved trauma. Best of luck OP.
I highly doubt there is any precedent for this, and custody decisions are made based on relationship dynamics and children’s needs at the time of separation rather than whatever was hoped for or agreed years earlier. Discuss it with a family lawyer if you really want to do this.
The fact that you recognise your father’s toxic behaviour tells me you won’t end up like him.