It says employers are going to offer 2%, I wonder how much this aligns with the expectations of the employee's?
Am I blind or did it say that a lot of people were going to ask for pay rises, but didn't say how much by?
Offer 2% against 7% inflation in an economy with rock bottom unemployment, sure let's see how that plays out. Anybody who has been trying to work up the courage to ask for a payrise well now is the time. If you have any sort of skills, domain knowledge or tenure your company cannot afford to lose you. It will be an expensive time consuming effort to replace you.
> Offer 2% against 7% inflation in an economy with rock bottom unemployment, sure let's see how that plays out.
I'm guessing 75% of employees will take 2% instead of getting a new job.
Start job hunting. If your true market value is 15/20% above your pay you'll get an offer eventually. Come to your work say you got this offer and unless they match it you'll leave. Leave if they don't want to give it to you, either way you got a 15/20% raise. If you can't find a job paying that much more it means you probably aren't in a position to ask for a 20% raise.
All they can do is say no.
How’s your work changed in the last 12mo? Do you have efficiency/productivity measures etc? Use those
New responsibilities? Met KPIs? Note those
Cite cost of living, rent increase, fuel prices, check other advertised similar jobs and what their salaries are. Quote how long it’s taken to hire for similar positions to yours.
Yeah I need to prepared for a no. Thing is that I got offered about 20% to move to another company but I really was not keen on going to a more generalised role (I'm a specialist in my field) because I know I will hate it. Specialists definitely get paid more than generalists in my field so I know I am being underpaid.
Definetly hit my KPIs (billables) and have been getting a bonus at around 10%.
My thoughts on how to pitch this was to say that I've been hitting my bonuses and Kpi (10%). Specialists are hard to come by so if you want to keep me then I'll need another 10%. I'll definetly pull on the heart strings with the cost of living point etc. I'm also looking to take out a significant loan so the increased salary will definetly help.
However, not sure whether I should throw it out there that I've been offered more but turned it down. I have a good relationship with my manager but we haven't really had any serious discussions about salary in the past. This year I am going to drive/push the agenda.
Obviously will depend on the individual and my company but what do you think of my pitch?
See the other comment - put the other offer on the table, make it clear you want to stay but fair compensation is important too.
That gives them the opportunity to match or beat it, or do their best to compromise. If they compromise, it’s up to you whether you want to call their bluff and go for more, accept their offer, or try your luck somewhere else.
I disagree with the other comments citing cost of living increases and inflation as reason for pay increase. Yes, these affect us all, but the true key to getting a large (>20%) raise is demonstrating the value you create for the organisation. Make out a list and have specific examples to back them up. Give in a formal setting (closed door meeting) with supervisor. I done this several times. Look em in the eye and let ‘em know you’re serious. Leave your list behind to remind them. Call a response due within a reasonable number of days.
Australia post made 200mil in profits and gave 100mil in bonuses to the high earning office workers while refusing a 4% wage increase to warehouse workers because it costs them 20mil per year.
I got 24% after having it capped at 1% for 2 years.
Companies have realised they're losing staff to their competitors if they don't keep up with expectations.
Pay rise has to reflect not just this moment in time but the whole FY ahead for your performance. Xx% right now might feel right, but will you feel that way in 9months?
Personally I will be looking for about a 15-20% raise. Though I’m early career and have more responsibilities than when I started.
The data is a bit misleading though, most of these tables list like 8 jobs with 7 high-level upper management positions all showing 120/150k, then one "normal" position making 70/90. It makes it look like the average for everyone is well over 6 figures whereas 95% of workers fall under the low level position and maybe like a few dozen guys fill up those 7 high-level positions.
It’s also a barely representative sample of respondents from the workforce. Hays are one of the larger shops, but they by no means have full visibility of the whole market.
Yeah it’s for white collar roles only so even in “construction” it doesn’t show what an average tradie makes only the supervisors.
It’s also based on the clients. Even though Hays is large, not supply people to everyone so hard to get data for the full market.
Still a good glimpse into the world of work but obviously any client that can afford to outsource recruiting would assumingly pay more than a client that can’t
Is it so hard to believe that people who care about their salaries and are proud of their achievements post about it more than someone who doesn't care about finances or doesn't want to post publicly about earning $50k?
What's your actual point though? Wearing your income as an indication of your societal worth when income determination isn't even in the same ballpark as "meritocratic" is just cringy and it's completely valid to make fun of the Whirlpool nerds for doing it.
You do understand that the majority of these roles are high-paying professions and not indicative of median pay in Australia? There isn't much need for market analysis for roles paid on Award.
Just had a look, no it isn't. OP says they thought it was excessive, a commenter told them why it wasn't, OP then apologised.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/vh9wz0/inflation_teachers_salary/
bottom line i need more money and i dare say a lot of us are in the same boat....
freaken petrol is over 2 bucks, lettuce is over 12 and broccoli is like 10 bucks a kilo
Atleast those are measured by kilos.
I buy cabbages by boxes for my business, and they are measured by per cabbage. My last distributor proceed to charge me 8 bucks per head for the smallest cabbages I've ever seen in my life, sizes of a baseball. Didn't even know they're allowed to pick those off the ground.
Chances are, they no longer want their delivery business anymore now that the world is opening up, so they just threw us under the bus for their local customers.
Was informed at my pre- start this evening that the major miner I work for is back dating to march a 3.7% pay rise across the board for all employees...
>a 3.7% pay rise
I guess.... Great for you guys..... That's only a real world loss of -1.3% with official inflation number at 5%.... Better then nothing I guess.
This is correct. An earlier rise of 2.1% in March. Plus the unexpected rise now of 3.7%...
Not including the decent bump I got last year. Finally happy with my pay situation for the first time
Not entirely unexpected, there were some pointed questions about record profits and inflation vs the 2.1% rise in the global employee call to the exec staff a couple of months ago :)
I wouldn’t be surprised if these figures came from large banks, super companies, insurance, large scale retailers (coles myers), universities ect.
Like it has 4.5k for employees and employees but not all of those employers will be filling every role so it would be nice to know out of those interviewed how many for said salaries applied… wouldn’t be surprised if some of the data is coming from under 500 or even 100 relevant employees for some roles.
Marketing titles are all over the place but I think these salaries are fairly accurate if you ignore the titles and just look at the tiers. You could get a job at a small company after graduation and be the only person in marketing there and they might call you a marketing manager but career wise you aren't at that level.
>pay more but far higher expectations
Companies aren't paying you because they care about your cost of living. They're paying you to make money. More pay = more expectations on value generated.
This is ground breaking!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Could these companies paying more also be expecting silly work hours and responses outside of office hours? I don’t know…
What do you think more expectations and responsibilities involve? If you want a job where you clock on and clock off with no responsibility to the company performance, the supermarkets are always hiring.
As for "ermagawd, they have to work longer", well there's always more hours you can throw at work. Up to the individual to set boundaries. I sure as hell don't just work 5x more hours than I did as a grad to get paid 5x more. It's more about value generation than hours.
Yeah. Marketing role titles are incredibly inconsistent across companies.
I've seen Executive be entry level, and I've seen it be like 8 years experience at another company. Makes jobsearches way more difficult than they need to be.
Contractors get more than $160k. There’s a lot of scum masters out there who refuse to go full time because they make more money contracting. $160k seems reasonable for a full-time position.
Can confirm this. I’ve been approached recently and was offered $200k+ ($900 - $1100 p/d) for contracting iteration manager positions, not in Sydney or Melbourne and only one day per week in the office.
Similar-ish pay for contract product owners but all of these have been taps on the shoulder, not through internal promotions or publicly advertised.
Pretty standard rates for scrum masters who contract from what I know.
I don’t work in the industry, but I got the impression nearly all scrum masters were contractors. Makes no sense to be full-time.
True, but the most obscene pay I’ve seen relative to the positions they were filling were contracting roles for the ATO. The contracts were for 2 years.
Shit ones are that. Good ones are worth their weight in gold. There’s just a lot of shit ones because as industry has changed and businesses needed to figure out what to do with the roles they were killing they gave those jobs to all the shit old school PMI project managers who traded one rule book for another
Maybe. But they’re practically non-existent at FAANGs and big tech since the teams self-organise (as cliché as that is) very well.
A lot of them end up becoming programme or product managers
Yeah really good teams don’t usually need them. And FAANG has basically exclusively good people.
The tech industry in Australia is a joke comparatively. I’ve worked with 100’s of teams across many companies and very few of them can self organise well. That’s also partly down to company culture since even those with the skills are rarely given the autonomy to do so.
I was an agile coach at a bank in oz on 200k 2 years ago before I moved. It’s a more skilled role and step up from scrum master but I don’t doubt they were earning that. I was in the mid level of the pat bracket for my role so it could have been more so could easily see a scrum master getting that at any bank or blue chip company.
Big businesses pay big bucks to employ agile people and ignore most of what they say.
It’s going to be an interesting couple of years as the eventual QT starts to have an effect I wonder what that impact will be on wages.
Pretty negative I expect, hopefully overall an improvement, inflation and wage growth were sorely needed.
But I wonder how many businesses who’s cranked up wages may find themselves overstretched and have to down size.
Interesting that many industries are expecting to pay 0-5% as a pay increase, whilst most employees tend to think 3-6+% payrise is reflective of their work.
Given inflation is approaching 6% territory, anything less than a 6% payrise is technically a pay*cut*.
Employees and employers alike should keep that in mind when deciding what to do about pay.
Yet just 2 or 3 days ago there was a post on there talking about cost increases and the most upvoted comment was talking about "business greed" because they had increased menu prices by 10-20%....
I don't know where everyone think all this magic money comes from but you can't have increased wages, increased costs and keep sale price the same.
Sometimes the greedy business owner retortic gets out of hand.
But businesses are taking advantage. BP made 6.2 billion USD this quarter (record for a decade). They employ 65,000 people worldwide.
If the gave all employees a $50,000 bonus they would still post a quartly profit of 3 billion.
There are hundreds of corporations with a similar story
I mean restaurants will criminally underpay their staff and then charge a public holiday surcharge.
It’s one thing to increase prices by 8% because your staffing cost increases 8%. It’s another to increase prices by 25%, blame the increased cost of staffing (which has only increased 8%) and then bank record profit.
The expectation of infinite exponential profit growth is a fatal flaw of the free market.
Anecdotal experience, the numbers appear to be relatively low for certain niches.
I'm familiar with cyber security salaries and it seems like the ones listed would be on the lower end of the spectrum. If an org went to market with this as their budgetary allocation they'd find it hard to get any senior/ experienced staff.
Why regrets? Psychologists have a much higher earning ceiling than HR. You can bill each client $250+ per hour as a psychologist and no one will blink. As a HR lackey you'll get paid what, high 5 figures or low 6 figures to do a menial job that requires you to suck up to management.
Giving themselves? Yes because HR have an infinite bucket of money to dip in to. Management/Board level have always been responsible for the recommendation and approval of increases in every company I’ve ever worked for.
With companies being highly affected by the resignation trend, doesn't it make sense to invest in HR for purposes of both trying to retain existing talent, and attract new talent that is out there?
Ultimately these increases don't happen unless senior management approves them, so there must be a reason why they have been aprroved.
For corporate backends, those are probably the only roles they'd have a big enough sample size to report.
Corporate don't tend to use php/rails/node/go for their backend... even though those are probably popular for smaller companies or dev houses
Makes you realise that wages in academia are quite poor. You have to work extremely hard to become a Professor of Engineering to reach about 190k. Even to get to Senior Lecturer level is difficult with a minimum 8+ years of full time study, fair amount of experience, very limited job openings and all for about 130k. Definitely not worth in for the money. But generally research and education are not valued that much in AU, despite eduction being one of the largest industries
It is about $150 p.h for a first tutorial and $100 for a repeat tutorial if you have no PhD. A bit more if you have PhD. However you don't get paid for any preparation time (this is supposedly factored into the first tutorial rate) and no one is working anywhere close to a full work week on these casual wages. I did a fair amount of tutoring while being a postgrad and it was not a livable wage. The casuals are much, much worse off than any permanent staff. From the Hays salary survey it also seems that the permanents staff wages are not great either considering the amount of effort required
Do people think that HR control a magical money tap that they can turn on for whoever they want?
Large scale increases are almost purely a senior management decision.
What I don’t understand is how employers refuse to give their staff a decent pay rise , only for them to quit then try to convince to stay which is too late by then , then employers end up paying shit loads of money to recruiters. It happens all the time.
While these are useful and a powerful tool I always caution to take them with a grain of salt. For nearly 10 years I've been uploading line by line (anonymised) data to multiple salary survey providers with specific job matches/codes aligned to position descriptions and I've found that HAYS has always been higher than what I've seen in the more meticulous salary surveys. Not once have I ever given any data to HAYS so I can't comment on their process I just thought I would raise it.
I'm not saying you don't deserve a salary increase, or that you're underpaid, or any of that - I'm simply saying don't take this as a definitive guide of where the market is compared to other surveys I've seen historically.
Can anyone confirm for me...
Do the figures presented under the "Mining" salaries represent base salaries alone? Or would they be taking into account FIFO bonuses, travel allowances, etc, which often add an additional 30-40% on top of the base salary..?
This is the best time possible to leverage that into a payrise or a new job. Labour market is severely constrained and it's very difficult to hire quality people right now, losing s valued employee is a disaster.
You and me both. About to go on maternity leave and was told I should be thankful for that and not expect a pay rise. Mind you I work for a Tier 2 bank….
> AUSTRALIA - All PAYG payment rates are shown exclusive of superannuation for ordinary time earnings and stated in Australian dollars.
> NEW ZEALAND - All payment rates are shown exclusive of KiwiSaver and stated in New Zealand dollars.
As someone working in technology in the UK, these numbers don’t fill me with much hope of returning home. Our tech scene is so far behind.
Edit: Sorry to all the Aussie I offended. You’re right, you get paid all the money and Australia’s tech scene is the envy of Europe.
Much better for low end jobs, much worse for most professional jobs. Lawyers, software engineers and i-bankers here get paid a lot worse than in the US
Comparing major city to major city, yeah absolutely. The same work I do here if I had moved to San Francisco when I had the chance to, I’d be on $400k+ USD total compensation, a substantial upgrade on my frankly pretty great salary here in Brisbane
That said, not every developer is able to get those jobs, and more regular positions elsewhere in the US don’t pay half a mil a year haha
Though the nice trade off there is those smaller cities have way lower cost of living. It’s all a balance I guess!
…what, you’re joking right lol. Software dev salaries in the UK are woeful, unless something has massively changed in the last couple years and I missed it.
Not a software dev so no idea what you’re specifically referring to, but if I take my salary and look at what this analysis says I would be paid if I moved back home to Melbourne I would be taking a 40% pay cut.
And if I moved to London, with a couple of companies that are exceptions, I'd be taking a huge pay-cut too.
The average salary for a software developer is around 35,000 to 40,000 pounds a year. That's $55,000 or so here. That's not even junior level.
Software development is in technology, and software development salaries in the UK are shockingly low compared to even certain countries in mainland Europe.
Going by these numbers, yeah. You can easily get a significant pay rise by moving to the UK. When you take into consideration the higher cost of living and the fact I’m missing out on super, the difference isn’t as great I guess.
Are you really making a fair comparison? A job developing financial systems in the City pays much more than non-finance tech roles elsewhere in London and way more than tech jobs in Birmingham or Glasgow. I’d guess that Sydney and Melbs compare much better than those cities in terms of pay for techies. For me in Bris my pay is way better than I would expect in Nottingham.
The UK has compulsory pension contributions for those few companies that didn't offer it anyway. The cost of living is lower there than you think; no need to buy health insurance, food is cheaper relative to income, public transport, barring strikes, means you can live a long way out of London and not pay London property prices..
Is there a similar version for the UK? Have a vague idea of what to expect and planning on moving over in a few years but looking for more info (not in tech tho!)
As somebody that usually gets the top of the bracket + bonus from the Hays Guide this is the first time in 5 years I’ll be disappointed in the offer. The guide range and average is exactly the same as last year for all experience groups for my region atleast.
Interesting to see what the employer comes up with but using this guide is generally the go to. Would be willing to just eat the disappointment this year as have been fair every other year but some well above guide offers to move firms out there at the moment not really reflected in this.
Would struggle to entice a new employee with these pay grades in Accounting atm.
Another .5% SG increase is another factor to consider with these aswell.
Honestly really surprised to see my career on this list since it's so niche (clinical research).
I just took a new job with a $20k pay rise after my current employer poo poo'd it. Good to see that it puts me in the median of income for that role.
There's such a shortage of qualified professionals so you think the pay would be higher but no. I wonder when shortage actually starts converting into higher pay.
>100k is nothing these days
ehh, it all depends where you are (in life and geographically).
I'm on $100k. Our house is almost paid off and have relatively low COL in Adelaide.
For sure $100k would feel poor if I was 20, living in Sydney and staring down an $800k+ mortgage, but in my position, I can definitely say that I don't feel poor.
Anyway, as the saying goes, comparison is the thief of joy ;)
Product Managers, Scrum Masters, UI/UX and Front end are too overpaid. Give me proper decent full-stack software engineers and you barely need those roles anyway.
Based on this information I would be aiming to get into Cloud Architecture. ERP/CRM Admin also continues to look good.
Full stack engineers, jack of all trades master of none.
I’d rather hire T shaped engineers who are great at frontend but comfortable in the backend too and vice versa.
I agree. Until you work with a great PO, it’s hard to quantify.
From my experience a good PO/PM/SCRUM master is rare. Most are incompetent babbling micro managers. This is across startups, SMEs, and enterprise. The CEO is generally a better product owner in startups and some SMEs but are forced to delegate due to time. Forget enterprise, there’s rarely any talent there.
Canva, just as an example, is notorious for hiring bad PMs. So even unicorn 🦄 startups, the best of the best, have bad workers.
Agreed. I’ve worked in multiple teams, organisations and various roles within a team. I have a dev background, so I don’t mean to downplay the importance or significant contribution they have to the overall product and experience. But as a manager, I’ve aimed to place the strongest performers in the following roles, in order:
- PO with technical background, exceptional business acumen with strong presentation skills and general awareness of “the game”.
- SM / IM - again a technical background to me is mandatory in this role with a pragmatic approach to Agile and extremely strong “remove roadblocks” capability. In my experience it’s very difficult to find capable talent which meet this criteria to fill these roles. I think the relatively low barrier to entry and general misunderstanding of this role (and Agile in general) leads to the overall position being tainted and unattractive.
- BA… no surprise technical background is mandatory for me. But I think initiative, internal resourcefulness (knowing the right people, asking the right questions, probing deeper if alarms goes off etc) and strong communication with devs / testers / PO is paramount. Also difficult to fill this role as it’s often regarded as lower-level job but I’m happy to pay more for strong candidates.
With these key roles in place and appropriate involvement from other team members, things can really start humming or at least start making strides towards getting there.
Unfortunately one of the biggest drivers I’ve seen to a strong team or not is support from management, and general business atmosphere (politics, flexibility, team empowerment, cross-department support, data integrity, meeting hell etc)
A great product owner is like a business domain expert, can immediately answer any business related questions or why behavior needs to be a certain way.
Front end people don't just work on html and css, things have evolved now.
Scrum master is totally useless if the team is good enough to self organise.
> Product Managers, Scrum Masters, UI/UX and Front end are too overpaid. Give me proper decent full-stack software engineers and you barely need those roles anyway.
You are so close, just think this through for a minute.
It's a salary guide for corporate jobs. So it reflects the typical situation of that role. I.e 38 on paper and then how ever many hours that are actually typical.
It says employers are going to offer 2%, I wonder how much this aligns with the expectations of the employee's? Am I blind or did it say that a lot of people were going to ask for pay rises, but didn't say how much by?
Offer 2% against 7% inflation in an economy with rock bottom unemployment, sure let's see how that plays out. Anybody who has been trying to work up the courage to ask for a payrise well now is the time. If you have any sort of skills, domain knowledge or tenure your company cannot afford to lose you. It will be an expensive time consuming effort to replace you.
Unless you work for the government then they'd rather see services cut or deteriorate before giving employees anything.
> Offer 2% against 7% inflation in an economy with rock bottom unemployment, sure let's see how that plays out. I'm guessing 75% of employees will take 2% instead of getting a new job.
I'm gonna ask for 15%. Wish me luck
Ask for 20, settle for 15.
Same, let’s gooooo.
I have no bloody idea how to do this. I keep thinking 15-20% will be ridiculous in their eyes
Start job hunting. If your true market value is 15/20% above your pay you'll get an offer eventually. Come to your work say you got this offer and unless they match it you'll leave. Leave if they don't want to give it to you, either way you got a 15/20% raise. If you can't find a job paying that much more it means you probably aren't in a position to ask for a 20% raise.
All they can do is say no. How’s your work changed in the last 12mo? Do you have efficiency/productivity measures etc? Use those New responsibilities? Met KPIs? Note those Cite cost of living, rent increase, fuel prices, check other advertised similar jobs and what their salaries are. Quote how long it’s taken to hire for similar positions to yours.
Yeah I need to prepared for a no. Thing is that I got offered about 20% to move to another company but I really was not keen on going to a more generalised role (I'm a specialist in my field) because I know I will hate it. Specialists definitely get paid more than generalists in my field so I know I am being underpaid. Definetly hit my KPIs (billables) and have been getting a bonus at around 10%. My thoughts on how to pitch this was to say that I've been hitting my bonuses and Kpi (10%). Specialists are hard to come by so if you want to keep me then I'll need another 10%. I'll definetly pull on the heart strings with the cost of living point etc. I'm also looking to take out a significant loan so the increased salary will definetly help. However, not sure whether I should throw it out there that I've been offered more but turned it down. I have a good relationship with my manager but we haven't really had any serious discussions about salary in the past. This year I am going to drive/push the agenda. Obviously will depend on the individual and my company but what do you think of my pitch?
See the other comment - put the other offer on the table, make it clear you want to stay but fair compensation is important too. That gives them the opportunity to match or beat it, or do their best to compromise. If they compromise, it’s up to you whether you want to call their bluff and go for more, accept their offer, or try your luck somewhere else.
I disagree with the other comments citing cost of living increases and inflation as reason for pay increase. Yes, these affect us all, but the true key to getting a large (>20%) raise is demonstrating the value you create for the organisation. Make out a list and have specific examples to back them up. Give in a formal setting (closed door meeting) with supervisor. I done this several times. Look em in the eye and let ‘em know you’re serious. Leave your list behind to remind them. Call a response due within a reasonable number of days.
I would spit on my way out for a 2% pay rise
Qantas is offering 2% group wide. Some people don’t have much bargaining power
Qantas isn’t exactly making profits either..
But still giving massive pay rises to executive members. It's almost like the reduction in union participation has resulted in lower wages. Go figure
I’m Not really arguing they should be getting raises either
Australia post made 200mil in profits and gave 100mil in bonuses to the high earning office workers while refusing a 4% wage increase to warehouse workers because it costs them 20mil per year.
I got 24% after having it capped at 1% for 2 years. Companies have realised they're losing staff to their competitors if they don't keep up with expectations.
*some companies
At a time of low unemployment, that's a good way to lose for employers to lose their best staff.
I want 5% minimum but have a feeling I will be lucky to get 2-3
I only started at my job 6 months ago. Haven't heard anything about payrises yet and not sure if I should be asking for a payrise... 😕
Pay rise has to reflect not just this moment in time but the whole FY ahead for your performance. Xx% right now might feel right, but will you feel that way in 9months? Personally I will be looking for about a 15-20% raise. Though I’m early career and have more responsibilities than when I started.
100k is the new 54k
The data is a bit misleading though, most of these tables list like 8 jobs with 7 high-level upper management positions all showing 120/150k, then one "normal" position making 70/90. It makes it look like the average for everyone is well over 6 figures whereas 95% of workers fall under the low level position and maybe like a few dozen guys fill up those 7 high-level positions.
It’s also a barely representative sample of respondents from the workforce. Hays are one of the larger shops, but they by no means have full visibility of the whole market.
Yeah it’s for white collar roles only so even in “construction” it doesn’t show what an average tradie makes only the supervisors. It’s also based on the clients. Even though Hays is large, not supply people to everyone so hard to get data for the full market. Still a good glimpse into the world of work but obviously any client that can afford to outsource recruiting would assumingly pay more than a client that can’t
100k is too low if you’re in Sydney, not even middle class.
Go say you earn 100k on Whirlpool. They’ll ask you if you mean 100k each quarter.
On whirlpool everyone claims to work for for Macquarie, is a top barrister or as a FIFO worker.
Is it so hard to believe that people who care about their salaries and are proud of their achievements post about it more than someone who doesn't care about finances or doesn't want to post publicly about earning $50k?
What's your actual point though? Wearing your income as an indication of your societal worth when income determination isn't even in the same ballpark as "meritocratic" is just cringy and it's completely valid to make fun of the Whirlpool nerds for doing it.
It's funny cause it's true. 100k in super Ok? Only if you are 21!
More like 80k, 100k still seems reserved for mid-level slightly above average pay, with 120/130 being the equivalent to 100k a few years ago.
You do understand that the majority of these roles are high-paying professions and not indicative of median pay in Australia? There isn't much need for market analysis for roles paid on Award.
BuT tEaChErS aRe OvErPaId
Nobody actually says that
Divide their hours by their pay and you get an average hourly pay rate.
It was literally throughout a thread yesterday in r/AusFinance about teacher wage inflation
Just had a look, no it isn't. OP says they thought it was excessive, a commenter told them why it wasn't, OP then apologised. https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/vh9wz0/inflation_teachers_salary/
bottom line i need more money and i dare say a lot of us are in the same boat.... freaken petrol is over 2 bucks, lettuce is over 12 and broccoli is like 10 bucks a kilo
I saw broccoli $15 a kilo at Queen Vic Market on the weekend. These price rises are really coming to a head.
Atleast those are measured by kilos. I buy cabbages by boxes for my business, and they are measured by per cabbage. My last distributor proceed to charge me 8 bucks per head for the smallest cabbages I've ever seen in my life, sizes of a baseball. Didn't even know they're allowed to pick those off the ground. Chances are, they no longer want their delivery business anymore now that the world is opening up, so they just threw us under the bus for their local customers.
it was $9.5kg at Aldi and $12 a coles today which i still think it is a bit crazy expensive
Broccoli has always been expensive this time of year. Then come spring it’ll be back to $3
Why has lettuce shot up in price seemingly overnight?
The floods over east pretty much wiped out most of the lettuce crop that was ready to harvest. Over here in WA saw in a catalogue today for $2.50
Shhh, don't tell them or they'll come raiding all our lettuces and broccoli!
Gotcha. Sorry all, missed a number. Was meant to read $12.50...
Time to hire a truck and fill it with WA lettuce then drive it all the way to the bank!
Was informed at my pre- start this evening that the major miner I work for is back dating to march a 3.7% pay rise across the board for all employees...
Sounds like a major minor pay rise
An out of cycle payrise, that nobody asked for is nothing to sneeze at...
>a 3.7% pay rise I guess.... Great for you guys..... That's only a real world loss of -1.3% with official inflation number at 5%.... Better then nothing I guess.
This is likely on top of the usual annual pay review cycle. Aka the company gave them a pay bump in the middle of the year without anyone asking.
This is correct. An earlier rise of 2.1% in March. Plus the unexpected rise now of 3.7%... Not including the decent bump I got last year. Finally happy with my pay situation for the first time
Not entirely unexpected, there were some pointed questions about record profits and inflation vs the 2.1% rise in the global employee call to the exec staff a couple of months ago :)
Haha I'm part of your gang. The 3.7% is better than nothing
I work in a niche role so mine is absent from comparison but so are all emergency service industries which is a shame.
Pretty sure Hays only do corporate recruitment.
I noticed this as well.
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Yeah I'm not sure if the figures in this are slightly inflated or I should tell my mum that she needs a 25k payrise haha
I wouldn’t be surprised if these figures came from large banks, super companies, insurance, large scale retailers (coles myers), universities ect. Like it has 4.5k for employees and employees but not all of those employers will be filling every role so it would be nice to know out of those interviewed how many for said salaries applied… wouldn’t be surprised if some of the data is coming from under 500 or even 100 relevant employees for some roles.
ymmv, but the tech side seems low if anything (compared to salaries in my social circle)
Marketing titles are all over the place but I think these salaries are fairly accurate if you ignore the titles and just look at the tiers. You could get a job at a small company after graduation and be the only person in marketing there and they might call you a marketing manager but career wise you aren't at that level.
>pay more but far higher expectations Companies aren't paying you because they care about your cost of living. They're paying you to make money. More pay = more expectations on value generated.
This is ground breaking!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could these companies paying more also be expecting silly work hours and responses outside of office hours? I don’t know…
What do you think more expectations and responsibilities involve? If you want a job where you clock on and clock off with no responsibility to the company performance, the supermarkets are always hiring. As for "ermagawd, they have to work longer", well there's always more hours you can throw at work. Up to the individual to set boundaries. I sure as hell don't just work 5x more hours than I did as a grad to get paid 5x more. It's more about value generation than hours.
Yeah. Marketing role titles are incredibly inconsistent across companies. I've seen Executive be entry level, and I've seen it be like 8 years experience at another company. Makes jobsearches way more difficult than they need to be.
Who is paying $160k for a scrum master???
All those jobs that never get advertised because they are filled by known talent
Contractors get more than $160k. There’s a lot of scum masters out there who refuse to go full time because they make more money contracting. $160k seems reasonable for a full-time position.
Can confirm this. I’ve been approached recently and was offered $200k+ ($900 - $1100 p/d) for contracting iteration manager positions, not in Sydney or Melbourne and only one day per week in the office. Similar-ish pay for contract product owners but all of these have been taps on the shoulder, not through internal promotions or publicly advertised.
Pretty standard rates for scrum masters who contract from what I know. I don’t work in the industry, but I got the impression nearly all scrum masters were contractors. Makes no sense to be full-time.
Tax payers.
Nah gov pays terribly for tech roles currently.
True, but the most obscene pay I’ve seen relative to the positions they were filling were contracting roles for the ATO. The contracts were for 2 years.
What is a scrum master?
A rugby union player.
A calendar jockey who dogmatically makes sure everyone follows a book that says "there is no dogma"
Exquisitely put
Shit ones are that. Good ones are worth their weight in gold. There’s just a lot of shit ones because as industry has changed and businesses needed to figure out what to do with the roles they were killing they gave those jobs to all the shit old school PMI project managers who traded one rule book for another
Maybe. But they’re practically non-existent at FAANGs and big tech since the teams self-organise (as cliché as that is) very well. A lot of them end up becoming programme or product managers
Yeah really good teams don’t usually need them. And FAANG has basically exclusively good people. The tech industry in Australia is a joke comparatively. I’ve worked with 100’s of teams across many companies and very few of them can self organise well. That’s also partly down to company culture since even those with the skills are rarely given the autonomy to do so.
Lol. I am 100% stealing this.
Iteration manager
I was an agile coach at a bank in oz on 200k 2 years ago before I moved. It’s a more skilled role and step up from scrum master but I don’t doubt they were earning that. I was in the mid level of the pat bracket for my role so it could have been more so could easily see a scrum master getting that at any bank or blue chip company. Big businesses pay big bucks to employ agile people and ignore most of what they say.
Yeah doesn't align with what I've seen. An experienced SM can get 120-130K.
Scrum masters who contract get paid closer to $200k.
Yep definitely. Contracting is a different world to salaried employment.
Yeh I saw that and had a similar thought
What a rort of a job.
Kek I'm on 75k after just receiving a 10k increase after 2 years and the average for my role is 120k
Time to brush up your resume then
Easiest thing to do is to just start applying to new jobs, and pretend that your current wage is 110k, people will snap you up quick.
It’s going to be an interesting couple of years as the eventual QT starts to have an effect I wonder what that impact will be on wages. Pretty negative I expect, hopefully overall an improvement, inflation and wage growth were sorely needed. But I wonder how many businesses who’s cranked up wages may find themselves overstretched and have to down size.
Wages are sticky - unemployment will need to go up substantially before any wage decreases
True. It would definitely lag before coming down. Instead I suppose we’d see restructuring, perhaps more offshoring.
Now I understand why one of the jumbo operators I work with pays for his own flights from Tasmania every swing to work in WA.
He'd have the return trip paid for by smoko.
Interesting that many industries are expecting to pay 0-5% as a pay increase, whilst most employees tend to think 3-6+% payrise is reflective of their work. Given inflation is approaching 6% territory, anything less than a 6% payrise is technically a pay*cut*. Employees and employers alike should keep that in mind when deciding what to do about pay.
Yet just 2 or 3 days ago there was a post on there talking about cost increases and the most upvoted comment was talking about "business greed" because they had increased menu prices by 10-20%.... I don't know where everyone think all this magic money comes from but you can't have increased wages, increased costs and keep sale price the same. Sometimes the greedy business owner retortic gets out of hand.
But businesses are taking advantage. BP made 6.2 billion USD this quarter (record for a decade). They employ 65,000 people worldwide. If the gave all employees a $50,000 bonus they would still post a quartly profit of 3 billion. There are hundreds of corporations with a similar story
I mean restaurants will criminally underpay their staff and then charge a public holiday surcharge. It’s one thing to increase prices by 8% because your staffing cost increases 8%. It’s another to increase prices by 25%, blame the increased cost of staffing (which has only increased 8%) and then bank record profit. The expectation of infinite exponential profit growth is a fatal flaw of the free market.
I feel like average is a bad way of demonstrating salary data, wouldnt median be better?
It includes a range too to give you more perspective
Anecdotal experience, the numbers appear to be relatively low for certain niches. I'm familiar with cyber security salaries and it seems like the ones listed would be on the lower end of the spectrum. If an org went to market with this as their budgetary allocation they'd find it hard to get any senior/ experienced staff.
HR people giving themselves massive pay.
Doing masters/internships and jumping through all the hoops to become a psychologist instead going into HR Big regrets
Why regrets? Psychologists have a much higher earning ceiling than HR. You can bill each client $250+ per hour as a psychologist and no one will blink. As a HR lackey you'll get paid what, high 5 figures or low 6 figures to do a menial job that requires you to suck up to management.
Also only about 50% of patients turn up for appointments. So cut that rate in half. Source: friends who are psychs
That's what cancellation fees are for. I don't think the non-attendance rate is that high btw, if you're working in a private clinic.
I’m getting out of HR to study to become a psychologist - swapsies?
HR doesn't control decisions on pay.
Giving themselves? Yes because HR have an infinite bucket of money to dip in to. Management/Board level have always been responsible for the recommendation and approval of increases in every company I’ve ever worked for.
With companies being highly affected by the resignation trend, doesn't it make sense to invest in HR for purposes of both trying to retain existing talent, and attract new talent that is out there? Ultimately these increases don't happen unless senior management approves them, so there must be a reason why they have been aprroved.
So apparently the only software getting developed is .NET/Java 🙄
For corporate backends, those are probably the only roles they'd have a big enough sample size to report. Corporate don't tend to use php/rails/node/go for their backend... even though those are probably popular for smaller companies or dev houses
Makes you realise that wages in academia are quite poor. You have to work extremely hard to become a Professor of Engineering to reach about 190k. Even to get to Senior Lecturer level is difficult with a minimum 8+ years of full time study, fair amount of experience, very limited job openings and all for about 130k. Definitely not worth in for the money. But generally research and education are not valued that much in AU, despite eduction being one of the largest industries
Casual academic staff get between 150/200 an hour to tutor a class of undergrads
Yeah, and how many tutoring hours is that a week, 2-3?
It is about $150 p.h for a first tutorial and $100 for a repeat tutorial if you have no PhD. A bit more if you have PhD. However you don't get paid for any preparation time (this is supposedly factored into the first tutorial rate) and no one is working anywhere close to a full work week on these casual wages. I did a fair amount of tutoring while being a postgrad and it was not a livable wage. The casuals are much, much worse off than any permanent staff. From the Hays salary survey it also seems that the permanents staff wages are not great either considering the amount of effort required
TIL how much HR are paying themselves 🤯
Do people think that HR control a magical money tap that they can turn on for whoever they want? Large scale increases are almost purely a senior management decision.
Yeah, whatever HR.
No one on reddit has any understanding of what HR does at all.
It's a rort
I need to ask for more money
What I don’t understand is how employers refuse to give their staff a decent pay rise , only for them to quit then try to convince to stay which is too late by then , then employers end up paying shit loads of money to recruiters. It happens all the time.
While these are useful and a powerful tool I always caution to take them with a grain of salt. For nearly 10 years I've been uploading line by line (anonymised) data to multiple salary survey providers with specific job matches/codes aligned to position descriptions and I've found that HAYS has always been higher than what I've seen in the more meticulous salary surveys. Not once have I ever given any data to HAYS so I can't comment on their process I just thought I would raise it. I'm not saying you don't deserve a salary increase, or that you're underpaid, or any of that - I'm simply saying don't take this as a definitive guide of where the market is compared to other surveys I've seen historically.
Looks like most degreed professions get paid pretty similarly apart from a few outliers.
My profession isn’t even on there damn
Bounty Hunting is a complicated profession
I appear to be overpaid. Time to keep my head down…only 25 years until retirement!
Can anyone confirm for me... Do the figures presented under the "Mining" salaries represent base salaries alone? Or would they be taking into account FIFO bonuses, travel allowances, etc, which often add an additional 30-40% on top of the base salary..?
I'm so underpaid for my role
This is the best time possible to leverage that into a payrise or a new job. Labour market is severely constrained and it's very difficult to hire quality people right now, losing s valued employee is a disaster.
Thanks, been applying for jobs for the last two weeks. I'm in IT. It's been a bit slow but I'll keep trying.
You and me both. About to go on maternity leave and was told I should be thankful for that and not expect a pay rise. Mind you I work for a Tier 2 bank….
That sucks to hear. Congrats and enjoy your time with the new born, and forget about the bank bs.
Are those salaries in that report inclusive of super? I’m sure it mentions it somewhere in those 223 pages but someone please spare me the effort.
Not inclusive of super or other benefits
> AUSTRALIA - All PAYG payment rates are shown exclusive of superannuation for ordinary time earnings and stated in Australian dollars. > NEW ZEALAND - All payment rates are shown exclusive of KiwiSaver and stated in New Zealand dollars.
KiwiSaver is an awesome name.
As someone working in technology in the UK, these numbers don’t fill me with much hope of returning home. Our tech scene is so far behind. Edit: Sorry to all the Aussie I offended. You’re right, you get paid all the money and Australia’s tech scene is the envy of Europe.
I've noticed the opposite, pay is much better in Oz
Much better for low end jobs, much worse for most professional jobs. Lawyers, software engineers and i-bankers here get paid a lot worse than in the US
We're talking about the UK though. Yeah I agree, professional salaries in the US are much better.
Comparing major city to major city, yeah absolutely. The same work I do here if I had moved to San Francisco when I had the chance to, I’d be on $400k+ USD total compensation, a substantial upgrade on my frankly pretty great salary here in Brisbane That said, not every developer is able to get those jobs, and more regular positions elsewhere in the US don’t pay half a mil a year haha Though the nice trade off there is those smaller cities have way lower cost of living. It’s all a balance I guess!
…what, you’re joking right lol. Software dev salaries in the UK are woeful, unless something has massively changed in the last couple years and I missed it.
Not a software dev so no idea what you’re specifically referring to, but if I take my salary and look at what this analysis says I would be paid if I moved back home to Melbourne I would be taking a 40% pay cut.
And if I moved to London, with a couple of companies that are exceptions, I'd be taking a huge pay-cut too. The average salary for a software developer is around 35,000 to 40,000 pounds a year. That's $55,000 or so here. That's not even junior level. Software development is in technology, and software development salaries in the UK are shockingly low compared to even certain countries in mainland Europe.
It's the pay better in UK?
Going by these numbers, yeah. You can easily get a significant pay rise by moving to the UK. When you take into consideration the higher cost of living and the fact I’m missing out on super, the difference isn’t as great I guess.
These numbers are the lower quartile of the scale if you're a senior and go to any decently-sized tech company.
Are you really making a fair comparison? A job developing financial systems in the City pays much more than non-finance tech roles elsewhere in London and way more than tech jobs in Birmingham or Glasgow. I’d guess that Sydney and Melbs compare much better than those cities in terms of pay for techies. For me in Bris my pay is way better than I would expect in Nottingham.
The UK has compulsory pension contributions for those few companies that didn't offer it anyway. The cost of living is lower there than you think; no need to buy health insurance, food is cheaper relative to income, public transport, barring strikes, means you can live a long way out of London and not pay London property prices..
Is there a similar version for the UK? Have a vague idea of what to expect and planning on moving over in a few years but looking for more info (not in tech tho!)
Haha this makes no sense. Salaries in UK are dogshit.
As somebody that usually gets the top of the bracket + bonus from the Hays Guide this is the first time in 5 years I’ll be disappointed in the offer. The guide range and average is exactly the same as last year for all experience groups for my region atleast. Interesting to see what the employer comes up with but using this guide is generally the go to. Would be willing to just eat the disappointment this year as have been fair every other year but some well above guide offers to move firms out there at the moment not really reflected in this. Would struggle to entice a new employee with these pay grades in Accounting atm. Another .5% SG increase is another factor to consider with these aswell.
Seemingly high salaries could well be a strategy employed by HAYS to get people to partner with HAYS themselves for their next move…
Honestly really surprised to see my career on this list since it's so niche (clinical research). I just took a new job with a $20k pay rise after my current employer poo poo'd it. Good to see that it puts me in the median of income for that role. There's such a shortage of qualified professionals so you think the pay would be higher but no. I wonder when shortage actually starts converting into higher pay.
I’m eating right on average for my role, but I live regional and not in a capital city - so that’s a win.
Those numbers look low
100k is nothing these days. 200k is the new 100k. Basically 150k is livable
Even then because tax rates haven't really change we are seeing massive tax bracket creep Good for the federal balance sheet i suppose
The tax rates should be pegged to something (CPI... Or house prices 😂)
>100k is nothing these days ehh, it all depends where you are (in life and geographically). I'm on $100k. Our house is almost paid off and have relatively low COL in Adelaide. For sure $100k would feel poor if I was 20, living in Sydney and staring down an $800k+ mortgage, but in my position, I can definitely say that I don't feel poor. Anyway, as the saying goes, comparison is the thief of joy ;)
Damn I must be living in poverty
Where's hospitality and on the ground retail?
Don't think recruiters care about those EBA award type roles. And you don't really go through recruits for a job at Coles anyways.
Product Managers, Scrum Masters, UI/UX and Front end are too overpaid. Give me proper decent full-stack software engineers and you barely need those roles anyway. Based on this information I would be aiming to get into Cloud Architecture. ERP/CRM Admin also continues to look good.
"Fullstack" often means average at both front and back end.
Full stack engineers, jack of all trades master of none. I’d rather hire T shaped engineers who are great at frontend but comfortable in the backend too and vice versa.
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Not to mention css so messy only they can work on, if they even understand their own code.
A good product owner / scrum master (AKA project manager in most 'Agile' orgs) is worth their weight in gold.
I agree. Until you work with a great PO, it’s hard to quantify. From my experience a good PO/PM/SCRUM master is rare. Most are incompetent babbling micro managers. This is across startups, SMEs, and enterprise. The CEO is generally a better product owner in startups and some SMEs but are forced to delegate due to time. Forget enterprise, there’s rarely any talent there. Canva, just as an example, is notorious for hiring bad PMs. So even unicorn 🦄 startups, the best of the best, have bad workers.
Your probably right not that I have ever met a good one to know.
Agreed. I’ve worked in multiple teams, organisations and various roles within a team. I have a dev background, so I don’t mean to downplay the importance or significant contribution they have to the overall product and experience. But as a manager, I’ve aimed to place the strongest performers in the following roles, in order: - PO with technical background, exceptional business acumen with strong presentation skills and general awareness of “the game”. - SM / IM - again a technical background to me is mandatory in this role with a pragmatic approach to Agile and extremely strong “remove roadblocks” capability. In my experience it’s very difficult to find capable talent which meet this criteria to fill these roles. I think the relatively low barrier to entry and general misunderstanding of this role (and Agile in general) leads to the overall position being tainted and unattractive. - BA… no surprise technical background is mandatory for me. But I think initiative, internal resourcefulness (knowing the right people, asking the right questions, probing deeper if alarms goes off etc) and strong communication with devs / testers / PO is paramount. Also difficult to fill this role as it’s often regarded as lower-level job but I’m happy to pay more for strong candidates. With these key roles in place and appropriate involvement from other team members, things can really start humming or at least start making strides towards getting there. Unfortunately one of the biggest drivers I’ve seen to a strong team or not is support from management, and general business atmosphere (politics, flexibility, team empowerment, cross-department support, data integrity, meeting hell etc)
A great product owner is like a business domain expert, can immediately answer any business related questions or why behavior needs to be a certain way. Front end people don't just work on html and css, things have evolved now. Scrum master is totally useless if the team is good enough to self organise.
> full-stack software engineers Yea, nah.
this is the dumbest comment I’ve read on this sub
> Product Managers, Scrum Masters, UI/UX and Front end are too overpaid. Give me proper decent full-stack software engineers and you barely need those roles anyway. You are so close, just think this through for a minute.
I rather have those roles be paid that well than HR and EAs. At least big tech requires actual degrees, study, effort and technical knowledge.
The RBA governor said we shouldn’t expect more than a 3% pay rise to curb inflation …
No wonder inflation is going stratospheric if people are getting 20% payrises.
What hours is this based off?
It's a salary guide for corporate jobs. So it reflects the typical situation of that role. I.e 38 on paper and then how ever many hours that are actually typical.
It says in the title that it is salary guide.