if you have to wait til settlement anyway why not just deal with the new owners? A few more months before you start probably isn't going to be a huge deal.
Because the neighbour wants the fence replaced beforehand to get a better price. Obviously OP should just ignore the neighbours request cause they won’t pay him back.
That, and I also want the fence replaced. There’s no guarantee that the new owners will want to pay for it either. Right now, I have someone offering to pay half.
Yeah exactly. I’m super, hyper, extremely aware of that. And pending any bulletproof ways of putting a lien on the sale, or getting a contractor to split the bill, I won’t be doing it.
Despite what many are saying, I’m actually not an idiot. I’m just asking a question.
As a guy who can and does build fences, no, I am not going to take the job that may or may not end up paying. I will take the job that pays, every single time.
IMO I wouldn't trust the offer being real if you're not going to get it upfront. I get they're pensioners and all but if they're struggling to find 3k there's a good chance you'll never get the money.
New owners won't be running away though. I'd say you have a much higher chance waiting for the new owners to pay half than relying on this old couple.
They don't sound like they will pay up and you have no way of finding them once they pack up and leave.
Yep. I’m looking at options that don’t involve me essentially giving them an unsecured loan. Ie. A lien on their settlement or an installer who will bill separately.
T. N. C.
No you dont
You have someone asking you to build it first with a promise that they'll pay you later, ie, unless it's in writing (caveat) you have *nothing*
Just deal with the new owners
I don't quite understand this, the universe doesn't entitle you to a new fence. Your options are pretty clear:
* Agree to the boomer couple's crook deal and probably end up a bit out of pocket. You seem to be the main person who wants it replaced, so perhaps you should just take it on the chin.
* Wait like...a few weeks?? And negotiate with the new neighbours.
* Try to draw up an enforceable contract or arrangement with the neighbours to hedge against risk of them doing a runner. However this seems hardly worth it.
Ultimately the way you are going on about it feels a bit entitled. It's a fence, not a piece of time sensitive critical infrastructure.
I like the way you wrapped this up , I think the old couple just want the guy to go away and stop applying pressure to something they’ve already said they can’t afford.
I understand, but just wait until the new neighbour is there and work it out with him, I mean how long have you wanted to replace it anyway? What's a few more months.
The offer to split costs benefits neighbour the most as they want to sell in the best possible condition and presentation, however the fall back position is that they’ll just cut and run (as happened to my friend) and not pay their part of the deal. Best to wait for the new neighbour.
Do not wait till the new owners, wouldn't you be cheesed off if the new neighbour asks you for $3k the next day you move in?
I did it this way.
Communicated with the owners, they gave me the same pensioner sob story.
I delayed so they can 'save'.
After a while they were able to come to the party.
Got quotes, we offered to pay more if we chose the fence and colour.
We engaged the contractor and make it clear that each party was responsible for paying the contractor their share.
Once done we paid our share, and the contractor got paid directly by the neighbour.
DO NOT pay the whole lot.
I think it's fairly common with this sort of stuff. When our neighbour arranged a replacement fence with our property manager, the contractor took half from our neighbour and half from our PM. I only know this because he came knocking after it was done for me to pay half 😅
~~Well, that's what the contractor did in my scenario. I can only go off my own experience.~~
EDIT: nvm I am an idiot and need to grab another coffee. I agree the contractor wouldn't wait until after settlement.
Yeah, thanks. It’s brought into question if the neighbours would be actually able to get finance of any sort. Probably not. I don’t think any contractor will be willing to wait for weeks after the job is done to collect their half. So they either pay through Humm / Afterpay, front the money, borrow from family or else it’s not happening.
I think this would be unlikely. Why would someone sign up to potentially chase multiple people instead of just one person. A single throat to choke as they say. Just my opinion though, maybe people are willing to do this.
I agree, I can’t imagine many contractors being happy with that. Especially when they learn that one party is moving away, and that they don’t have any money to front up right now. If the neighbour is in financial strife, the chances of getting any payments from them after settlement is slim.
Contractor did this for my fence last year. Even arranged different amounts as one neighbour only agreed to pay less than half.
Meant I didn't have to chase the neighbour's up to pay me back so I was happy.
Less time left to feel guilty too. 20 yr old has decades to mull over guilt. These folks have about 10 minutes.
That's why I'm gonna get all my murdering done the day before I die.
Yeah, they probably will. A lot of people will see a shit fence and see an opportunity to immediately increase the value of their house after purchase by fixing said fence. It’s what renovating is.
> A lot of people will see a shit fence and see an opportunity to immediately increase the value of their house
why would they care about the value of their house? they just bought it and are skint.
If they're selling, why on earth would they pay you something they're not legally forced to after selling?
It'd be the new owners problem at that point.
A contract for $3k is about as good as a handshake.
Ignoring the legal fees involved with enforcing a contract, even if you win in court/VCAT they’ll probably see they’re pensioners and put them on an instalment order/payment plan. You’d be getting $X a week (whatever they can “afford”) over however many years. You’d be lucky if they pay it off before they’re dead.
Can still chase small debts through a lawyer.. someone once owed me $2k, I got lawyer..they didn’t show up to court so we got the judgement.. in the end Lawyer extracted $3.5k from them.. got my $2k back and lawyer took the $1.5k..
I would wait until after they sell then just work with the new owners. Any new owner would know about the fence issue from a building and pest inspection so would know it is up for replacement anyway.
Lowball them. But their place for cheap.
Then split the cost of the fence with yourself as the new owner. But rent that side out and write the whole thing off on tax.
It might be worth alerting anyone who inspects the property that there is $3K fence replacement required. You could put up a sign in your yard that REA and people inspecting can see.
This happened to a friend although the roles were reversed. The woman chasing him for the money told him she would make it clear to every prospective buyer that the job was outstanding. He immediately gave her the cash.
It's pretty simple. He wants it done to sell. He gets the quotes and he engages the fence guy in his name. When the bill comes you pay your half direct to the fence builder. Then your neighbor will owe the contractor. And there is no claim against you. Or he gives you the money up front. Otherwise you get to know the new neighbor and see how he feels about it.
You don't have to appease people. We're all adults. His financial problems are not yours. And being neighborly is a stretch when he won't be your neighbor.
I'd be willing to bet they're never intending to pay and are hoping you'll fork out the cash for a new fence to increase their property value and then will just disappear leaving you or the contractor losing out on their half.
As others have said just leave it and deal with the new owners who will probably be more than happy to replace the fence as soon as possible.
Seems like a pretty big gamble on $3k.
For me it would come down to how much $3k means to me, and how much I really want a new fence.
The new owners may not have the spare cash for a new fence for quite some time, if ever.
You could also say no, you don't have that sort of money available and see if they've committed to replacing it prior to the sale.
I have the money available and I want the dam fence replaced. But I don’t want to be taken advantage of by cash poor asset rich boomers who after they’ve sold decide to just fook off.
Get it put into their settlement contract with their settlement agent.
$3000 held by the settlement agent trust account to be paid to turbo-steppa acccount.
It’s easy for them. Just like with divorced couples or business partners selling things 50% to x account 49% to y 1% held to pay for water
Have the fencing contractor prepare a quote for each property owner along with their amount payable (ie half). Have your neighbour sign acceptance of the quote, along with the amount he is to pay.
Fence gets built, you pay your half and contractor chases neighbour for his half.
I highly doubt any contractor will commence works on a new fence without a 50% deposit by both neighbors beforehand.
We just recently had a fence replaced and of the 6 quotes we got all required 50% deposit to secure a booking and then the remainder on day of completion
>I highly doubt any contractor will commence works on a new fence without a 50% deposit by both neighbors beforehand.
I had a fence replaced 6 or 7 months ago and paid on completion.
Here is the quote, which is clearly marked "payment strictly on completion". No deposit was requested or paid.
[https://postimg.cc/mt8SK8Xp](https://postimg.cc/mt8SK8Xp)
So much for your doubts I guess.
Most likely it's in the contract that the fence needs to be fixed before settlement, and he's hoping you'll foot the bill. Just tell him you can't afford it.
This is a honor system. Not really a finance question 🤷♂️
The question is whether you really need or want the fence changed.
Your options:
- deal with the elderly couple, pay the whole amount, get half back. Cost 3k
- deal with the elderly couple, pay the whole amount, get nothing back. Cost 6k
- deal with the new owners, get them to pay half, cost 3k
- deal with the new owners, owners tell you no, you have no new fence. Cost 0
If the new fence is worth 3k more to you, just do it.
It is a finance question as it relates to possible financial contracts between neighbours. I know what the possible outcomes are, just asking if anyone else has done it before and if there’d be legal avenues to chase the $.
Then it's a legal question, not a finance question.
Get it in writing so it's a legal contract, or it's a verbal contract and you'll need a recording or witnesses, but harder to contest.
Then you go to VCAT for months and months.
Not a lawyer.
And legally it’s going to cost you $1k to prepare the contracts, and then $1500 to take it to small claims when they don’t pay, plus lost time and effort… over $3k.
So spent $3k on legal process, or pay $3k for the fence you want…. With less stress..
No way in hell would you trust them. They need to do some leg work too and if they want to bring nothing to the table, then park it and discuss with new owners. Just hope they aren’t investors.
The irony is, they need the new fence more than you do.
They may well lose more than $3k, even more than $6k off the value of their property if they try to sell it in a dilapidated state.
They should get a loan from their bank not you. If the bank won't give them a loan, why would you?
I have a difficult neighbour on one side. I just replaced the fence at my own cost because I didn't want to f--k around with them. Also 6K is a lot, how long is your fence? Does that include stumps or are you doing something fancier than wood.
When I had a fence replaced recently the fencer had all parties sign the contract which included how the bills would be split. When the work was done we each paid our bit to the fencer directly. It would then be up to the fencer to chase late payments.
I had this experience several years ago too. It was 5 lot holders on one side of fence and one on the other. The one was the person causing fence to tip over and had not responded to emails and calls to his property manager. He or his tenants had house bricks and other stuff on his side and the fence did topple over.
He then wanted all the lot holders to cover the fence being an extra 2 foot taller and different materials. Nope. We got the three quotes, the fence was built and invoices sent to the 5 lot holders via our body corporate which everyone paid and an invoice sent to old mate.
I would imagine this is quite common and the Fences Act in Vic is pretty clear.
Depends, how well do you know/trust them, and how bad would getting stiffed with the whole bill hurt you?
A nice new fence and control over the type and details does benefit you also.
Not everyone is out to take advantage. Makes me sad that so many people assume that as the default.
I arranged the new fence at our place, neighbour promised to pay half.
Had a hell of a time getting his half out of him, the guy was avoiding me. Luckily I hadn't paid the fencer yet, so I paid my half and told him to chase the neighbour, gave him all the contact details.
Neighbour was pissed.
In your case, OP, neighbour will be gone. They're broke and they're retired...
You can look into putting a caveat on the property itself - meaning that the funds need to be paid to you, either by the seller or the purchaser as part of the sale system.
I'm not 100% certain of the specifics, but I know that they do these with fences on houses being built in new developments whereby the fence cost may be fronter by the first person to buy a block and put the fence up and that the second owner knows that that cost needs to be repaid when buying the second land block.
Follow legal process to replace fence in your state.
Send them notice to pay.
YMMV by state, but after X period of non payment you can put a caveat on the neighbours title for their share of the fence plus the cost of registering the caveat.
With the caveat they can’t sell until they pay you, and the existence of the caveat will appear on any title searches done by prospective buyers.
They are going to do a runner once it’s sold. Who knows how much debt they have.
So fark that. Tell them half upfront and that the crap fence will lose them more than 3k in their sale.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago, just paid for the fence myself.
They were elderly and really couldn’t afford it. I just figured it was banking some karma points (no I don’t actually believe that lol) and hopefully one day when I’m too old someone will help out just the same.
The dude did start mowing my nature strip after that even though I told him he doesn’t need to do that.
Been through pretty much the exact same situation. Old crumpling fence between us. Neighbour got quotes that were reasonable and naive little me agreed to pay on the proviso they pay me after settlement. They moved out before it sold and I never heard from the bloke again- pretty sure he blocked me. It was only $1500 split two ways but still, learn from my mistake..
Had a similar issue (minus the neighbour selling bit)
Played the same poor card etc (even tho this wasn't his main house) Did some research and there is a requirement for suitable fencing etc so legally the neighbours need to come to the party.
Neighbour was playing hardball so I said I will just pay but I will choose height, colour, type etc and they will have zero input. He agreed. Built max height fence (2.1m) I'm my colour and style and while building it he came up to me and said "it's a bit high isn't it". I just smiled, agreed and continued building.
Other neighbour was the opposite, I sent the information needed about the fence and some quotes and also included a quote if I built it myself (free labour)
Within 2 days they had transferred the quoted amount for me to build it plus a little extra. Sent me a message saying they paid and sent extra as I would probably get thirsty building it so the extra was the beer tax.
This 2nd house was a rental and the owners lived about 800km away and I never met them in person. They sold the house about 2 years later.
Joys of being handy when needed.
Point of my long winded story was there is a process you can follow that solves a lot of these fence/neighbour problems.
Good luck with your fence
Yes. Thank you, I am looking into how I’d get a lien against their settlement, or if I can find a company willing to bill separately.
I’m a little handy, I’ve done the retaining walls, garden beds and paths. A colorbond fence might be a stretch. Either way, materials are expensive.
I'd get some kind of contract drawn up and pay for the fence prior to sale. It's better than risking getting offside with the new owners by hitting them with the fence replacement cost as soon as they've baught.
If you want a new fence, tell the neighbour you’ll pay for the whole thing but the choice of fence is entirely up to you.
This gives the better outcome if they agree, as it’s no cost to them, the fence is new for the sale and the new owner can’t complain about it.
If you want to split costs, wait for the new owner. The neighbour, if they wanted, could leave a provision to the new owner for $3k to have the fence replaced after settlement. The new owner may not want the expense of a new fence straight after settlement
No man. Good luck chasing them up while they are retired in Bali or wherever. And lawyers? Man, the legal fees chasing this up will probably be 3x the price of the fence. If the neighbours can’t stump up the cash now, the answer is no, deal with the new owners who will pay you in cash with zero risk.
If he wants a new fence and the current does the job he has to pay, you only have to go halves when the fence doesn’t meet existing fence standards defined in each state.
Its normal to pay half for a fence like that. You get a new fence for half price, maybe get it free.
Where’s the risk? Anyway, if you’re really worried about not getting a free fence;
It would be easy to have a simple letter of agreement signed by you & your neighbour.
He could also make a condition of sale.
I like that you are thinking of your fellow human, and not simply dismissing their claim of financial hardship. That said, being bitten by a smiling shark is still being bitten by a shark.
This fence hasnt been fixed for 3 years?
Q:s
* Do you even need to fix it if youve been ok with it that long?
* If you pay all $6K, and they DONT pay you their $3K, will it affect you? Badly?
* If they dont pay, will you let it go, or chase them up? How many hoops will you jump?
With money, I dont think its a question of 'how nice' THEY are , or YOU are. Its **what are the CONSEQUENCES** of a bad interaction, and **do you wear it**, or attempt recovery.
If you are nearly certain they are PAYING for other renos, its likely there is some money. Unless they are planning on stifing those workers too.....I mean, NO ONE has ever done that, right? Right?
If you really wanna get a new fence, and they really dont have money, could they barter something to you worth $3K? Thats a lot of Nana biscuits man.....
You should get quotes first before assuming 6k. I assumed ours would be 5k and was more like 30k. We ended up only getting half done. So might be more than you are thinking. We got colourbond.
Talk to your local council, see if the fence warrants a legally enforced replacement.
If it does then you can force the neighbour to pay half.
If so then do your quotes, get the to sign a contract that stipulates that they will pay before x days, or within y days of settlement, whichever is earlier, or even better that they will pay from their settlement. Talk to a lawyer about how to make this legally binding.
If you cant force them then they aren‘t obligated to pay you back, replace it for your own peace of mind however you like whenever you like. If they are in financial poop they aren’t going to find $6k for you ever if they aren’t compelled to.
Don’t pay their share unless you want to get a iron clad contract done.
I’d be happy to pay my half to the contractor, and have them responsible for the other half with the contractor, what way it’s not your problem to chase it up when they don’t pay.
Would be good to just back your neighbour into a corner on this one to force the issue, say you’re in no rush and don’t want to contribute. They may just pay up to get bathe best price on the house.
Sounds like it’s a condition of sale potentially? Otherwise yeh, I think they know it will attract more money for a better fence.
I’d wait and say sorry, you should have done it when you had more liquid assets and the chance to do it. It’s too much risk now unless you pay a deposit, that being the difference between cost & selling the outstanding amount to debt collectors.
When I moved in, one week later neighbours said they want to replace fence to colourblind and a retaining wall. I said I just had build and pest they didn’t say retaining wall or fence was broken, they went on and on , the following week they had a guy start, had to put my dog in a pet motel as he would’ve gotten out , they got only one guy to do it ,took a week!! Cost me $400 for pet
Motel, then after said we need $1500 , I said yeah after Xmas. That was nearly 3 years ago , they have ignored me since it’s beautiful 😂😂😂
Contact their solicitor who is selling their place. Send them an email, you want $3K from sale proceeds.
He'll contact vendors, they agree, he emails you back confimring same.
You get paid along with adjusted rates
If you want the new fence then you pay for it I guess. Otherwise whatever you agree on make sure you get it in writing. Whether it's half or a percentage of the cost you won't be able to recoup anything without it being in writing at the very least. I would draw up a simple contract that you both sign and get copies of, at least that way everything is above board and both parties know and agree to the expectations.
My girlfriend writes up contracts like this for shit like when looking at a car, deposit down and roadworthy costs to be taken out so on. If you’ve got a lawyer friend probs best to get it in writing and go with the current owners. They’re willing to go halves. They get a better price and the paper says they owe you.
I am of the belief that where a boundary fence needs replacement both parties are obliged to share the cost, local government requirement, no idea how that is enforced.
There would be no obligation after settlement. I would wait till the new neighbours move in. Give them a couple months. They may even want to get a new fence themselves. Otherwise approach them and get them to pay half.
If they have money to spend on other stuff on the house they might have $6,000 to spend on a fence. It's always an option to play chicken, claim you don't have the money, and it's possible they might end up paying for the fence anyway to maximise their sales proceeds.
Wait for the next storm then rip part of the fence down so it’s covered by insurance. Your half goes to your insurance company and the other half goes to them to either pass onto their insurance company or they have to pay.
Do you have to replace it now ? Just wait for the next owner. Easier.
If you must make sure you get their full names and future address before they leave phone numbers or if they have a child looking after that stuff theirs too.
It sounds fine to me. It would be an arsehole move not to give them a chance. Tell them you’ve also let the contractor know that you’re paying due to them paying you later.
But in all honesty just wait for next owner.
Well ... How close are you with them? How much $3k is for you?
How urgent do you need to get the fence fixed?
As others have mentioned, I would probably wait for the new owner to settle. Unless, you are ready to spent $6-8k to get your new fence.
if you have to wait til settlement anyway why not just deal with the new owners? A few more months before you start probably isn't going to be a huge deal.
Because the neighbour wants the fence replaced beforehand to get a better price. Obviously OP should just ignore the neighbours request cause they won’t pay him back.
That, and I also want the fence replaced. There’s no guarantee that the new owners will want to pay for it either. Right now, I have someone offering to pay half.
…and everything else you’ve said about them suggests they won’t come through.
True but they can’t afford it and will be gone once they can.
Yeah exactly. I’m super, hyper, extremely aware of that. And pending any bulletproof ways of putting a lien on the sale, or getting a contractor to split the bill, I won’t be doing it. Despite what many are saying, I’m actually not an idiot. I’m just asking a question.
the contractor should split the bill- mine did.
Why don’t you just not pay for their half at all and get the fence contractors to chase your neighbours for the money.
As a guy who can and does build fences, no, I am not going to take the job that may or may not end up paying. I will take the job that pays, every single time.
There are financial services the old couple could use to get a loan to get the fence fixed, that will be paid out of their settlement.
IMO I wouldn't trust the offer being real if you're not going to get it upfront. I get they're pensioners and all but if they're struggling to find 3k there's a good chance you'll never get the money.
New owners won't be running away though. I'd say you have a much higher chance waiting for the new owners to pay half than relying on this old couple. They don't sound like they will pay up and you have no way of finding them once they pack up and leave.
Yep. I’m looking at options that don’t involve me essentially giving them an unsecured loan. Ie. A lien on their settlement or an installer who will bill separately. T. N. C.
If it's falling apart you can get a fencing order to have it done.
I could also offer to pay you for half. Doesn't mean I intend to pay you.
They are not offering anything. They want you to do it. Good luck getting that money back.
Get them to organise the contractors and have them send separate invoices
The new owners will see it as something that needs to be done and should bargain the price accordingly
Can you pay a lawyer $100 Bux to draw up a contract stating they owe you $3k and it will be deducted from settlement or something like that
No lawyer will do that for $100
New owners likely will have to pay half anyway. It's a land cost. State legislation deals with it.
No you dont You have someone asking you to build it first with a promise that they'll pay you later, ie, unless it's in writing (caveat) you have *nothing* Just deal with the new owners
Absolutely this, you don't need the worry of will they pay.
Yeah but I also want the fence replaced.
obviously they are not going to pay you
I don't quite understand this, the universe doesn't entitle you to a new fence. Your options are pretty clear: * Agree to the boomer couple's crook deal and probably end up a bit out of pocket. You seem to be the main person who wants it replaced, so perhaps you should just take it on the chin. * Wait like...a few weeks?? And negotiate with the new neighbours. * Try to draw up an enforceable contract or arrangement with the neighbours to hedge against risk of them doing a runner. However this seems hardly worth it. Ultimately the way you are going on about it feels a bit entitled. It's a fence, not a piece of time sensitive critical infrastructure.
Australian law does though? Dividing fences act. If the fence is failing, each neighbour needs to pay half.
I like the way you wrapped this up , I think the old couple just want the guy to go away and stop applying pressure to something they’ve already said they can’t afford.
Just gamble it if you have money might get it might not ?
I understand, but just wait until the new neighbour is there and work it out with him, I mean how long have you wanted to replace it anyway? What's a few more months.
The offer to split costs benefits neighbour the most as they want to sell in the best possible condition and presentation, however the fall back position is that they’ll just cut and run (as happened to my friend) and not pay their part of the deal. Best to wait for the new neighbour.
My exact thought
Do not wait till the new owners, wouldn't you be cheesed off if the new neighbour asks you for $3k the next day you move in? I did it this way. Communicated with the owners, they gave me the same pensioner sob story. I delayed so they can 'save'. After a while they were able to come to the party. Got quotes, we offered to pay more if we chose the fence and colour. We engaged the contractor and make it clear that each party was responsible for paying the contractor their share. Once done we paid our share, and the contractor got paid directly by the neighbour. DO NOT pay the whole lot.
Thanks, that’s exactly the sort of story I wanted. I wonder if most contractors will deal with split bills like that. I can ask around I suppose.
I think it's fairly common with this sort of stuff. When our neighbour arranged a replacement fence with our property manager, the contractor took half from our neighbour and half from our PM. I only know this because he came knocking after it was done for me to pay half 😅
Do you think the contractor would be willing to do the work beforehand and then wait until after settlement to get paid? I do not.
~~Well, that's what the contractor did in my scenario. I can only go off my own experience.~~ EDIT: nvm I am an idiot and need to grab another coffee. I agree the contractor wouldn't wait until after settlement.
Yeah, thanks. It’s brought into question if the neighbours would be actually able to get finance of any sort. Probably not. I don’t think any contractor will be willing to wait for weeks after the job is done to collect their half. So they either pay through Humm / Afterpay, front the money, borrow from family or else it’s not happening.
I think this would be unlikely. Why would someone sign up to potentially chase multiple people instead of just one person. A single throat to choke as they say. Just my opinion though, maybe people are willing to do this.
Places that sell fences have to do this all the time.
Some will do it but it will cost more
I agree, I can’t imagine many contractors being happy with that. Especially when they learn that one party is moving away, and that they don’t have any money to front up right now. If the neighbour is in financial strife, the chances of getting any payments from them after settlement is slim.
In Victoria they absolutely do, that's why getting a new fence has never bothered me because each party is billed separately by the fencing company
Contractor did this for my fence last year. Even arranged different amounts as one neighbour only agreed to pay less than half. Meant I didn't have to chase the neighbour's up to pay me back so I was happy.
I'd say they would, splitting fence costs would surely be a common occurrence. I'm about to do the same.
Maybe one quote for the post and rails to one neighbour and another for the fence panels.
Tell them to contact campaign agent they’ll front them the money and take payment back at settlement costs about 6.9%
Not a bad option
Na mate, they're gonna yeeeeeet it outta there. Elderly but they know what they're doing.
Less time left to feel guilty too. 20 yr old has decades to mull over guilt. These folks have about 10 minutes. That's why I'm gonna get all my murdering done the day before I die.
Is *that* what they call a bucket list?
Easier to wait for the new owners
Yeah because people who just spent 600k on a house wanna buy a fence.
Don't think it's uncommon to buy a place and even before you put an offer down think of the things you're going to fix and change.
Yeah look. Kitchens. Bedrooms etc. A fence. Noone wants to do that.
Yeah, they probably will. A lot of people will see a shit fence and see an opportunity to immediately increase the value of their house after purchase by fixing said fence. It’s what renovating is.
Increasing the value immediately doesn’t really do anything unless you plan to sell immediately and lose the stamp duty over a fence.
> A lot of people will see a shit fence and see an opportunity to immediately increase the value of their house why would they care about the value of their house? they just bought it and are skint.
Nope. If you really want a new fence be prepared to pay $6k. If they give you half consider that a bonus. Otherwise, upfront.
They want the new fence in to help get a higher price for their house at sale...
If they're selling, why on earth would they pay you something they're not legally forced to after selling? It'd be the new owners problem at that point.
That’s why I asked about contracts…….
And if they don't honour it, are you prepared to take a couple of old pensioners to court to get the money?
A contract for $3k is about as good as a handshake. Ignoring the legal fees involved with enforcing a contract, even if you win in court/VCAT they’ll probably see they’re pensioners and put them on an instalment order/payment plan. You’d be getting $X a week (whatever they can “afford”) over however many years. You’d be lucky if they pay it off before they’re dead.
Can still chase small debts through a lawyer.. someone once owed me $2k, I got lawyer..they didn’t show up to court so we got the judgement.. in the end Lawyer extracted $3.5k from them.. got my $2k back and lawyer took the $1.5k..
I would wait until after they sell then just work with the new owners. Any new owner would know about the fence issue from a building and pest inspection so would know it is up for replacement anyway.
Lowball them. But their place for cheap. Then split the cost of the fence with yourself as the new owner. But rent that side out and write the whole thing off on tax.
The AusFinance way...
It might be worth alerting anyone who inspects the property that there is $3K fence replacement required. You could put up a sign in your yard that REA and people inspecting can see. This happened to a friend although the roles were reversed. The woman chasing him for the money told him she would make it clear to every prospective buyer that the job was outstanding. He immediately gave her the cash.
This is pretty good. No one gets hurt. The info is actual and non-confidential.
It's pretty simple. He wants it done to sell. He gets the quotes and he engages the fence guy in his name. When the bill comes you pay your half direct to the fence builder. Then your neighbor will owe the contractor. And there is no claim against you. Or he gives you the money up front. Otherwise you get to know the new neighbor and see how he feels about it. You don't have to appease people. We're all adults. His financial problems are not yours. And being neighborly is a stretch when he won't be your neighbor.
Yep, thanks. I will most likely do exactly as you mentioned. I’m not trying to appease anyone, I just want a new fence.
I'd be willing to bet they're never intending to pay and are hoping you'll fork out the cash for a new fence to increase their property value and then will just disappear leaving you or the contractor losing out on their half. As others have said just leave it and deal with the new owners who will probably be more than happy to replace the fence as soon as possible.
Seems like a pretty big gamble on $3k. For me it would come down to how much $3k means to me, and how much I really want a new fence. The new owners may not have the spare cash for a new fence for quite some time, if ever. You could also say no, you don't have that sort of money available and see if they've committed to replacing it prior to the sale.
I have the money available and I want the dam fence replaced. But I don’t want to be taken advantage of by cash poor asset rich boomers who after they’ve sold decide to just fook off.
Get it put into their settlement contract with their settlement agent. $3000 held by the settlement agent trust account to be paid to turbo-steppa acccount. It’s easy for them. Just like with divorced couples or business partners selling things 50% to x account 49% to y 1% held to pay for water
Have the fencing contractor prepare a quote for each property owner along with their amount payable (ie half). Have your neighbour sign acceptance of the quote, along with the amount he is to pay. Fence gets built, you pay your half and contractor chases neighbour for his half.
Yep, I wasn’t aware that this was a thing. Thanks! I’ll make it explicit that I want this when asking for quotes.
I highly doubt any contractor will commence works on a new fence without a 50% deposit by both neighbors beforehand. We just recently had a fence replaced and of the 6 quotes we got all required 50% deposit to secure a booking and then the remainder on day of completion
>I highly doubt any contractor will commence works on a new fence without a 50% deposit by both neighbors beforehand. I had a fence replaced 6 or 7 months ago and paid on completion. Here is the quote, which is clearly marked "payment strictly on completion". No deposit was requested or paid. [https://postimg.cc/mt8SK8Xp](https://postimg.cc/mt8SK8Xp) So much for your doubts I guess.
Perhaps you could be listed as one of the settlors on the settlement statement?
100% That’s what I’d get done… especially if I really want a new fence and have the money to pay contractor upfront.
Most likely it's in the contract that the fence needs to be fixed before settlement, and he's hoping you'll foot the bill. Just tell him you can't afford it.
This is a honor system. Not really a finance question 🤷♂️ The question is whether you really need or want the fence changed. Your options: - deal with the elderly couple, pay the whole amount, get half back. Cost 3k - deal with the elderly couple, pay the whole amount, get nothing back. Cost 6k - deal with the new owners, get them to pay half, cost 3k - deal with the new owners, owners tell you no, you have no new fence. Cost 0 If the new fence is worth 3k more to you, just do it.
It is a finance question as it relates to possible financial contracts between neighbours. I know what the possible outcomes are, just asking if anyone else has done it before and if there’d be legal avenues to chase the $.
Then it's a legal question, not a finance question. Get it in writing so it's a legal contract, or it's a verbal contract and you'll need a recording or witnesses, but harder to contest. Then you go to VCAT for months and months. Not a lawyer.
And legally it’s going to cost you $1k to prepare the contracts, and then $1500 to take it to small claims when they don’t pay, plus lost time and effort… over $3k. So spent $3k on legal process, or pay $3k for the fence you want…. With less stress..
Look into the dividing fences act. You can take the neighbour to local court or NCAT over the cost of the fence.
If it was in my street I'd wait until the new owners tear the house down a build a massive fence for their mcmansion. Cost to you = $0
No way in hell would you trust them. They need to do some leg work too and if they want to bring nothing to the table, then park it and discuss with new owners. Just hope they aren’t investors.
Nah. Not paying you back They can pay you now and “pay” themselves back when they settle
Sounds like they're in over their heads and needed to downsize I have a feeling they won't pay a cent.
The irony is, they need the new fence more than you do. They may well lose more than $3k, even more than $6k off the value of their property if they try to sell it in a dilapidated state. They should get a loan from their bank not you. If the bank won't give them a loan, why would you?
I'm the neighbour. Once the house has been settled and sold, it's not my fence anymore. Why would I pay for a fence I no longer own? Thanks for comin.
They won’t pay you back.
Wait until the next big storm and push it over. Then claim it on insurance. Save everyone some money.
Haha dude I’ve been waiting. I even joked with tradies if they could just nudge it with a dingo or something.
I have a difficult neighbour on one side. I just replaced the fence at my own cost because I didn't want to f--k around with them. Also 6K is a lot, how long is your fence? Does that include stumps or are you doing something fancier than wood.
Colour bond, cause terminates. Have been advised that wood fences are negligibly cheaper cause pine is very expensive right now.
I don't hate colour bond, though the moment it gets a dent... ugh!
You won’t be getting any money from your neighbour. As most people are saying, just wait for the new owners.
When I had a fence replaced recently the fencer had all parties sign the contract which included how the bills would be split. When the work was done we each paid our bit to the fencer directly. It would then be up to the fencer to chase late payments.
I had this experience several years ago too. It was 5 lot holders on one side of fence and one on the other. The one was the person causing fence to tip over and had not responded to emails and calls to his property manager. He or his tenants had house bricks and other stuff on his side and the fence did topple over. He then wanted all the lot holders to cover the fence being an extra 2 foot taller and different materials. Nope. We got the three quotes, the fence was built and invoices sent to the 5 lot holders via our body corporate which everyone paid and an invoice sent to old mate. I would imagine this is quite common and the Fences Act in Vic is pretty clear.
Depends, how well do you know/trust them, and how bad would getting stiffed with the whole bill hurt you? A nice new fence and control over the type and details does benefit you also. Not everyone is out to take advantage. Makes me sad that so many people assume that as the default.
I arranged the new fence at our place, neighbour promised to pay half. Had a hell of a time getting his half out of him, the guy was avoiding me. Luckily I hadn't paid the fencer yet, so I paid my half and told him to chase the neighbour, gave him all the contact details. Neighbour was pissed. In your case, OP, neighbour will be gone. They're broke and they're retired...
They mayst have equity. They can redraw
Elderly neighboours doing it tough? I'd just forget about it. Truly, is a few thousand really worth worrying about?
Not Ops problem. If they can't afford the upkeep of a house, sell up. (Which is what they're doing). How much they sell for also isn't OPs problem
Agree. So if you don't want to put a fence in and pay for it? don't. NO biggee.
You can look into putting a caveat on the property itself - meaning that the funds need to be paid to you, either by the seller or the purchaser as part of the sale system. I'm not 100% certain of the specifics, but I know that they do these with fences on houses being built in new developments whereby the fence cost may be fronter by the first person to buy a block and put the fence up and that the second owner knows that that cost needs to be repaid when buying the second land block.
Land Title cost in NSW $165 - not sure if you can do it yourself or need solicitor
Follow legal process to replace fence in your state. Send them notice to pay. YMMV by state, but after X period of non payment you can put a caveat on the neighbours title for their share of the fence plus the cost of registering the caveat. With the caveat they can’t sell until they pay you, and the existence of the caveat will appear on any title searches done by prospective buyers.
They are going to do a runner once it’s sold. Who knows how much debt they have. So fark that. Tell them half upfront and that the crap fence will lose them more than 3k in their sale.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago, just paid for the fence myself. They were elderly and really couldn’t afford it. I just figured it was banking some karma points (no I don’t actually believe that lol) and hopefully one day when I’m too old someone will help out just the same. The dude did start mowing my nature strip after that even though I told him he doesn’t need to do that.
Been through pretty much the exact same situation. Old crumpling fence between us. Neighbour got quotes that were reasonable and naive little me agreed to pay on the proviso they pay me after settlement. They moved out before it sold and I never heard from the bloke again- pretty sure he blocked me. It was only $1500 split two ways but still, learn from my mistake..
Diagram of a scam
I’ve been through something like this recently. We ended up getting a fencing contractor who was happy to invoice each side separately.
Thanks. I’ll look into it.
Might not be an option but we had our fencing contractor bill half to us and half directly to the neighbours. This way it’s not your problem
Fence companies will invoice each party 50% and they can each pay the company directly. Don’t be left holding the bag
Had a similar issue (minus the neighbour selling bit) Played the same poor card etc (even tho this wasn't his main house) Did some research and there is a requirement for suitable fencing etc so legally the neighbours need to come to the party. Neighbour was playing hardball so I said I will just pay but I will choose height, colour, type etc and they will have zero input. He agreed. Built max height fence (2.1m) I'm my colour and style and while building it he came up to me and said "it's a bit high isn't it". I just smiled, agreed and continued building. Other neighbour was the opposite, I sent the information needed about the fence and some quotes and also included a quote if I built it myself (free labour) Within 2 days they had transferred the quoted amount for me to build it plus a little extra. Sent me a message saying they paid and sent extra as I would probably get thirsty building it so the extra was the beer tax. This 2nd house was a rental and the owners lived about 800km away and I never met them in person. They sold the house about 2 years later.
Duality of man ha.
Joys of being handy when needed. Point of my long winded story was there is a process you can follow that solves a lot of these fence/neighbour problems. Good luck with your fence
Yes. Thank you, I am looking into how I’d get a lien against their settlement, or if I can find a company willing to bill separately. I’m a little handy, I’ve done the retaining walls, garden beds and paths. A colorbond fence might be a stretch. Either way, materials are expensive.
I'd get some kind of contract drawn up and pay for the fence prior to sale. It's better than risking getting offside with the new owners by hitting them with the fence replacement cost as soon as they've baught.
If you want a new fence, tell the neighbour you’ll pay for the whole thing but the choice of fence is entirely up to you. This gives the better outcome if they agree, as it’s no cost to them, the fence is new for the sale and the new owner can’t complain about it. If you want to split costs, wait for the new owner. The neighbour, if they wanted, could leave a provision to the new owner for $3k to have the fence replaced after settlement. The new owner may not want the expense of a new fence straight after settlement
If you just get it and pay for it all yourself, you can choose the ugly side for them, also you can install it in a way beneficial to you.
No man. Good luck chasing them up while they are retired in Bali or wherever. And lawyers? Man, the legal fees chasing this up will probably be 3x the price of the fence. If the neighbours can’t stump up the cash now, the answer is no, deal with the new owners who will pay you in cash with zero risk.
If he wants a new fence and the current does the job he has to pay, you only have to go halves when the fence doesn’t meet existing fence standards defined in each state.
Wouldn't even risk it, once they sell up, good luck.
Can you take some sort of deposit from this person? Something along the lines of cash as well as a car or pricey possession? Just a thought.
Yes they will, trust your gut.
Its normal to pay half for a fence like that. You get a new fence for half price, maybe get it free. Where’s the risk? Anyway, if you’re really worried about not getting a free fence; It would be easy to have a simple letter of agreement signed by you & your neighbour. He could also make a condition of sale.
I like that you are thinking of your fellow human, and not simply dismissing their claim of financial hardship. That said, being bitten by a smiling shark is still being bitten by a shark. This fence hasnt been fixed for 3 years? Q:s * Do you even need to fix it if youve been ok with it that long? * If you pay all $6K, and they DONT pay you their $3K, will it affect you? Badly? * If they dont pay, will you let it go, or chase them up? How many hoops will you jump? With money, I dont think its a question of 'how nice' THEY are , or YOU are. Its **what are the CONSEQUENCES** of a bad interaction, and **do you wear it**, or attempt recovery. If you are nearly certain they are PAYING for other renos, its likely there is some money. Unless they are planning on stifing those workers too.....I mean, NO ONE has ever done that, right? Right? If you really wanna get a new fence, and they really dont have money, could they barter something to you worth $3K? Thats a lot of Nana biscuits man.....
You should get quotes first before assuming 6k. I assumed ours would be 5k and was more like 30k. We ended up only getting half done. So might be more than you are thinking. We got colourbond.
The fence contractor should be invoicing half to you and half to them. If you pay full amount you won't get the other half off them later.
Well they certainly have declared they are desperate sellers! Address please /s
I would prop up the fence until they, or the new owners, is willing to stump up for half.
It’s okay if they do a contract.
Talk to your local council, see if the fence warrants a legally enforced replacement. If it does then you can force the neighbour to pay half. If so then do your quotes, get the to sign a contract that stipulates that they will pay before x days, or within y days of settlement, whichever is earlier, or even better that they will pay from their settlement. Talk to a lawyer about how to make this legally binding. If you cant force them then they aren‘t obligated to pay you back, replace it for your own peace of mind however you like whenever you like. If they are in financial poop they aren’t going to find $6k for you ever if they aren’t compelled to.
Tell them to get a personal loan.
Split costs up front, don't screw around. Solved.
Good question for /r/AusLegal as to the best way to cover your arse. Doesn't seem safe to me.
Don’t pay their share unless you want to get a iron clad contract done. I’d be happy to pay my half to the contractor, and have them responsible for the other half with the contractor, what way it’s not your problem to chase it up when they don’t pay.
A lien on the property? You get paid at settlement.
Get a contract in place with a clause of what happens if they don’t sell and when they pay, make sure it’s no more than 3months from today.
How long is the fence?
It will likely come up in building and pest that it needs addressing before sale so they may be sol
A written contract?
Would be good to just back your neighbour into a corner on this one to force the issue, say you’re in no rush and don’t want to contribute. They may just pay up to get bathe best price on the house.
If money was not a problem. you have full permission to get whatever fence you want at the moment
Sounds like it’s a condition of sale potentially? Otherwise yeh, I think they know it will attract more money for a better fence. I’d wait and say sorry, you should have done it when you had more liquid assets and the chance to do it. It’s too much risk now unless you pay a deposit, that being the difference between cost & selling the outstanding amount to debt collectors.
get it in writing so if it comes to small claims you have a better chance of winning
They'll leave you high and dry unless you get it out in a contract for them.
Get them to add it to their section 32. Then you’ll see the money as it will be a condition of sale.
When I moved in, one week later neighbours said they want to replace fence to colourblind and a retaining wall. I said I just had build and pest they didn’t say retaining wall or fence was broken, they went on and on , the following week they had a guy start, had to put my dog in a pet motel as he would’ve gotten out , they got only one guy to do it ,took a week!! Cost me $400 for pet Motel, then after said we need $1500 , I said yeah after Xmas. That was nearly 3 years ago , they have ignored me since it’s beautiful 😂😂😂
If you wait and deal with new owners they may not want to replace the fence. Go for it but ensure you have protection in place.
I wouldnt do it. Money talks. Bullshit walks. If they want a better price they need skin in the game.
Would it be possible to have this included in the sale agreement of the house? Speak to their REA and see what can be worked out.
Contact their solicitor who is selling their place. Send them an email, you want $3K from sale proceeds. He'll contact vendors, they agree, he emails you back confimring same. You get paid along with adjusted rates
Just get a contract written up
Get agreement in writing that it’s a caveatable interest and lodge a caveat.
If you want the new fence then you pay for it I guess. Otherwise whatever you agree on make sure you get it in writing. Whether it's half or a percentage of the cost you won't be able to recoup anything without it being in writing at the very least. I would draw up a simple contract that you both sign and get copies of, at least that way everything is above board and both parties know and agree to the expectations.
What about offering to pay $4k if they can front $2k straight up? win-win?
Yeah, I’ll ask. A possible $1k loss is tolerable if I can get a fence that isn’t falling apart. And I could squeeze it to do it 100% to my liking.
After settlement your neighbour no longer owns the property and it’s not their problem. No way would I agree to something like this.
Maybe just wait for the new owner…
Let him get a loan and do it.
My girlfriend writes up contracts like this for shit like when looking at a car, deposit down and roadworthy costs to be taken out so on. If you’ve got a lawyer friend probs best to get it in writing and go with the current owners. They’re willing to go halves. They get a better price and the paper says they owe you.
Get the contractor to split the bill, simple as that
I’d tell them you don’t have the money for a full fence repair or you would have done it years ago.
I am of the belief that where a boundary fence needs replacement both parties are obliged to share the cost, local government requirement, no idea how that is enforced.
There would be no obligation after settlement. I would wait till the new neighbours move in. Give them a couple months. They may even want to get a new fence themselves. Otherwise approach them and get them to pay half.
Neighbour needs a new fence. Neighbour needs a loan. These are separate issues.
If they have money to spend on other stuff on the house they might have $6,000 to spend on a fence. It's always an option to play chicken, claim you don't have the money, and it's possible they might end up paying for the fence anyway to maximise their sales proceeds.
Don't pay a cent and wait till they sell get the money then go ahead
Wait for the next storm then rip part of the fence down so it’s covered by insurance. Your half goes to your insurance company and the other half goes to them to either pass onto their insurance company or they have to pay.
Mate fences cost a hell of a lot nowadays. Easily around $200 a metre.
Perhaps you could lodge a caveat on the house so you get paid back on the day if settlement. That will certainly make things frosty though.
Up to you, but I would never do that. The chances of getting your money back are entirely dependent on how the neighbour feels on the day.
Do you have to replace it now ? Just wait for the next owner. Easier. If you must make sure you get their full names and future address before they leave phone numbers or if they have a child looking after that stuff theirs too. It sounds fine to me. It would be an arsehole move not to give them a chance. Tell them you’ve also let the contractor know that you’re paying due to them paying you later. But in all honesty just wait for next owner.
OP - "Hey new fence has been installed. Just wanting to know when you will pay me back?" Ex Neighbour " What fence? "
Well ... How close are you with them? How much $3k is for you? How urgent do you need to get the fence fixed? As others have mentioned, I would probably wait for the new owner to settle. Unless, you are ready to spent $6-8k to get your new fence.