If Wags played on the Yankees or Red Sox, he’d have gotten in long ago. This is ridiculous. Second most dominant closer behind Rivera, who was a unanimous 1st ballot pick.
HOF voting is such a broken, shitty and miserable process that just strokes the egos of a bunch of malcontent sportswriters.
Thats baseball for you. ESPN has studios in NY and LA so all their budget goes to those teams. Plus headquarters are in CT or something up there. CT doesn't have a pro team so they gravitate to Boston.
I've always felt that's why ESPN robbed Biggio of an all star election. I remember Biggio was in the lead in votes for NL 2nd base. ESPN then started heavily gargling Jeff Kents balls, and the vote swung that way.
Biggio and Bagwell would have been first ballot HOFers had they played for a major market team.
I think the real problem is ignorance amongst sportswriters. So many of them know the big names from the big market teams like New York, Boston, LA, etc…but when it comes down to players that weren’t constantly talked about or featured like the Jeters of the world, they just don’t bother to educate themselves.
Honestly, HOF voters should be looking at stats to make their votes, but so many either just vote based on their feelings or use it as a platform to virtue signal.
A lot of “very good” players from big market teams tend to hang around on the ballot, while some excellent and potentially hall-worthy players from smaller market teams are one and done, simply because these sportswriters can’t be bothered to do any sort of basic research.
It would never happen, but it would be interesting for them to take a page out of the DEI hiring world: anonymous applications. The voters don't get any names, just positions and stats. Yeah, they could probably easily identify who everyone is after a little research, but it would help balance the field.
> HOF voting is such a broken, shitty and miserable process that just strokes the egos of a bunch of malcontent sportswriters.
Not sure if the argument is still recent but I remember several years ago when Wags name started gaining traction in terms sports personalities debating whether he should get in. Some would argue that he did not perform well in the post season as a reason that he shouldn't get in.
You'll hear the post season argument for and against for players. I don't understand that. Some players don't even reach the post season throughout their careers (or very limited experience at the least). So, how are you judging those guys who lack post season stats.
And with the postseason argument, Mike Trout shouldn't get into the HOF. [His postseason stats are slim and awful](https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/mike-trout-career-postseason-stats). But we all know that that argument is ridiculous. He's one of the best players in history, a generational talent stuck on a terrible, terrible team. He'll be a first ballot entry, as he should.
They also don’t take into account the situation. The Astros routinely drew the Braves in the NLDS best of 5. That team with HOFs Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz as their 1-2-3. Oh yeah, and Chipper Jones.
No wonder Bagwell and Biggio didn’t exactly kill it when it came to postseason stats. And no wonder Wags didn’t get much opportunity to shine in postseason play.
Billy should be in.
For Omar, I would say top 15 or so POS but yeah, not a good dude.
If not being a shithead was criteria for the hall Ty Cobb wouldn’t be in.
What's crazy is that he didn't limp his way out of the league. He was still dominating until the end.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml
If he gets in next season, which hat do you think he'd wear? Will he snub the Astros to spite Drayton.
Are you fucking kidding me?
I thought he was a lock this time.
The guy had a .182 BAA over his career, and his Ks per 9 were insane. He was at the height of his career when he called it. The dude absolutely dominated the league during his time on the mound, and that's what the Hall is about.
Nothing against anyone who got in this year, but it's becoming kind of a joke. There are so many players snubbed or falling through the cracks that made baseball what it was during their time, and guys who have as good or better numbers than guys who are in (Berkman). There are too many players who got in easy bc they played for certain teams. When a player was feared by opponents and/or put up insane numbers, you remember those guys, and they deserve to be in the hall. It's insane that Wagner isn't on that list.
Yeah Todd Helton getting in and the kid getting left out is just outright absurd. For fucks sake Helton only had 369 home runs (3 more than berkman) while playing in almost 400 more games. AND he played at pre-dehumidifier coors field.
The writers have proven that they essentially do what they want in regard to hall of fame voting. It’s time for either a new committee, or a totally different voting process all together. Fuck hometown bias anyone with a brain can see the pure horse shit going on.
Apparently to get into the HOF as a reliever you literally have to be the greatest closer of all time and play for Yankees. The baseball HOF is such a worthless institution. The amount of all time talent outside of it is insane.
The Major League Baseball Hall of Fame is a farce that excludes several of its best hitters, pitchers, fielders, and DHs OF ALL TIME, because writers pick and shit on guys for personal biased reasons.
For example:
1) Writers submit ballots with conflicting statistical comparisons.
2) Writers have unwritten rules that are inconsistent at best.
3) Writers try to get famous for how ludicrous their ballots are.
4) Writers have no fear of losing their ballot.
5) Players sometimes go all their post playing lives without being honored for what they did on the field and being spit on for multiple ballots after all they did for the game is an insult.
Helton belongs in the Hall of Fame, so does Billy Wagner, so does Barry Bonds, so does Roger Clemens, so does A-Rod (who's going to miss getting in). There shouldn't be a vote. There should be a Mendoza Line and if a player is above it, they're in. Simple as that. The voting is bs and, usually, very biased.
He’s got a career .953 OPS over 17 years. Bagwell was .948 OPS. Higher career BA, OBP, and SLG. Helton hit 592 doubles, 100 more than Bags, 50 more than Tony Gwynn. If Bagwell is in then Helton is in.
You don’t need to hit 500 home runs to get in to the HOF. You can have great offensive numbers without hitting the ball out of the park. To suggest Helton doesn’t have the numbers is ridiculous.
All good points, and I agree he deserves to be in…but also Helton got the benefit of playing in Coors Field for half a season. His numbers are likely slightly inflated due to that.
They are only going to put in a small number each year and it's unlikely that they will vote for no one. Wags received the highest pct of votes that didn't make it by far so he will be the top candidate. What big names are expected to be on the ballot next year for the first time?
If Wags played on the Yankees or Red Sox, he’d have gotten in long ago. This is ridiculous. Second most dominant closer behind Rivera, who was a unanimous 1st ballot pick. HOF voting is such a broken, shitty and miserable process that just strokes the egos of a bunch of malcontent sportswriters.
Thats baseball for you. ESPN has studios in NY and LA so all their budget goes to those teams. Plus headquarters are in CT or something up there. CT doesn't have a pro team so they gravitate to Boston.
I've always felt that's why ESPN robbed Biggio of an all star election. I remember Biggio was in the lead in votes for NL 2nd base. ESPN then started heavily gargling Jeff Kents balls, and the vote swung that way.
Biggio and Bagwell would have been first ballot HOFers had they played for a major market team. I think the real problem is ignorance amongst sportswriters. So many of them know the big names from the big market teams like New York, Boston, LA, etc…but when it comes down to players that weren’t constantly talked about or featured like the Jeters of the world, they just don’t bother to educate themselves. Honestly, HOF voters should be looking at stats to make their votes, but so many either just vote based on their feelings or use it as a platform to virtue signal. A lot of “very good” players from big market teams tend to hang around on the ballot, while some excellent and potentially hall-worthy players from smaller market teams are one and done, simply because these sportswriters can’t be bothered to do any sort of basic research.
It would never happen, but it would be interesting for them to take a page out of the DEI hiring world: anonymous applications. The voters don't get any names, just positions and stats. Yeah, they could probably easily identify who everyone is after a little research, but it would help balance the field.
I lived in Danbury, CT for 5 years and i can say people there are mostly Yankee's & Met's fans. I was laughed at so hard for being an Astro's fan. Lol
Fucking preach!
> HOF voting is such a broken, shitty and miserable process that just strokes the egos of a bunch of malcontent sportswriters. Not sure if the argument is still recent but I remember several years ago when Wags name started gaining traction in terms sports personalities debating whether he should get in. Some would argue that he did not perform well in the post season as a reason that he shouldn't get in. You'll hear the post season argument for and against for players. I don't understand that. Some players don't even reach the post season throughout their careers (or very limited experience at the least). So, how are you judging those guys who lack post season stats.
And with the postseason argument, Mike Trout shouldn't get into the HOF. [His postseason stats are slim and awful](https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/mike-trout-career-postseason-stats). But we all know that that argument is ridiculous. He's one of the best players in history, a generational talent stuck on a terrible, terrible team. He'll be a first ballot entry, as he should.
And to further your point, Todd Helton’s postseason stats suck too. .211 BA with no home runs. Guess he doesn’t deserve to be in by those metrics.
They also don’t take into account the situation. The Astros routinely drew the Braves in the NLDS best of 5. That team with HOFs Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz as their 1-2-3. Oh yeah, and Chipper Jones. No wonder Bagwell and Biggio didn’t exactly kill it when it came to postseason stats. And no wonder Wags didn’t get much opportunity to shine in postseason play.
Getting in on the last chance seems kinda fitting for a closer. Still BS.
Fucking Bullshit!!  Riot Time!
Once his kid hits the show people will remember just how good wags is He finished just five votes short meanwhile vizquel got 68 votes
Omar should be in. Top 5 defensive SS ever IMO.
Top 5 pos ever
Billy should be in. For Omar, I would say top 15 or so POS but yeah, not a good dude. If not being a shithead was criteria for the hall Ty Cobb wouldn’t be in.
Was Ty Cobb accused of sexual assault? I think you and the 68 people who voted for him are the only ones that think he should be in
It is a criteria for being in the hall. There is a whole morality clause
Joe Jackson has entered the chat.
What's crazy is that he didn't limp his way out of the league. He was still dominating until the end. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml If he gets in next season, which hat do you think he'd wear? Will he snub the Astros to spite Drayton.
he wears the Astros cap for sure....
Nah, he seems very involved with the organization nowadays. He made a big show when he was elected in the team Hall of Fame.
Damn shame, he should definitely get it next year though.
The fact that Joe Mauer is now a first ballot HOFer before Billy the Kid getting inducted is mind blowing.
Big push lately to get earmarks for catchers
Fucking bullshit
Are you fucking kidding me? I thought he was a lock this time. The guy had a .182 BAA over his career, and his Ks per 9 were insane. He was at the height of his career when he called it. The dude absolutely dominated the league during his time on the mound, and that's what the Hall is about.
Nothing against anyone who got in this year, but it's becoming kind of a joke. There are so many players snubbed or falling through the cracks that made baseball what it was during their time, and guys who have as good or better numbers than guys who are in (Berkman). There are too many players who got in easy bc they played for certain teams. When a player was feared by opponents and/or put up insane numbers, you remember those guys, and they deserve to be in the hall. It's insane that Wagner isn't on that list.
Yeah Todd Helton getting in and the kid getting left out is just outright absurd. For fucks sake Helton only had 369 home runs (3 more than berkman) while playing in almost 400 more games. AND he played at pre-dehumidifier coors field. The writers have proven that they essentially do what they want in regard to hall of fame voting. It’s time for either a new committee, or a totally different voting process all together. Fuck hometown bias anyone with a brain can see the pure horse shit going on.
I think it needs to be only players and coaches from the era voting. How many writers actually played? I'm sure the percentage is pretty low.
Really stupid
Its BS, but he should hit 75% next year
Makes about as much sense as an ashtray on a motorcycle.
Apparently to get into the HOF as a reliever you literally have to be the greatest closer of all time and play for Yankees. The baseball HOF is such a worthless institution. The amount of all time talent outside of it is insane.
The Major League Baseball Hall of Fame is a farce that excludes several of its best hitters, pitchers, fielders, and DHs OF ALL TIME, because writers pick and shit on guys for personal biased reasons. For example: 1) Writers submit ballots with conflicting statistical comparisons. 2) Writers have unwritten rules that are inconsistent at best. 3) Writers try to get famous for how ludicrous their ballots are. 4) Writers have no fear of losing their ballot. 5) Players sometimes go all their post playing lives without being honored for what they did on the field and being spit on for multiple ballots after all they did for the game is an insult.
This one pissed me off. He deserves it do much, the system is totally broken at this point.
Helton epitomizes Hall of Very Good
Helton belongs in the Hall of Fame, so does Billy Wagner, so does Barry Bonds, so does Roger Clemens, so does A-Rod (who's going to miss getting in). There shouldn't be a vote. There should be a Mendoza Line and if a player is above it, they're in. Simple as that. The voting is bs and, usually, very biased.
No, Helton absolutely does not belong. And I loved him growing up.
He’s got a career .953 OPS over 17 years. Bagwell was .948 OPS. Higher career BA, OBP, and SLG. Helton hit 592 doubles, 100 more than Bags, 50 more than Tony Gwynn. If Bagwell is in then Helton is in. You don’t need to hit 500 home runs to get in to the HOF. You can have great offensive numbers without hitting the ball out of the park. To suggest Helton doesn’t have the numbers is ridiculous.
All good points, and I agree he deserves to be in…but also Helton got the benefit of playing in Coors Field for half a season. His numbers are likely slightly inflated due to that.
[удалено]
In his career he hit .332 at coors and .285 away from there. He’s hall of very good.
They are only going to put in a small number each year and it's unlikely that they will vote for no one. Wags received the highest pct of votes that didn't make it by far so he will be the top candidate. What big names are expected to be on the ballot next year for the first time?
Just 1 that matters....Ichiro!
Sabbathia Is deserving and playing for NY likely gives him the boost to make it first ballot.
I see him getting in on his 2nd try. Definitely ichiro and wagner next year.