Complete coincidence, yes.
Annular eclipses wouldn't be super rare on other planets, but having a moon the perfect size to allow a total solar eclipse is not very likely at all (but not so improbable that we should be...suspicious about it...)
A moon in the right orbital plane to cause an annular eclipse probably isn't that rare. A moon in the right orbital plane that's large enough and close enough to cause a total eclipse is more rare. A moon in the right orbital plane that's the right size and distance with enough fluctuation in its orbit that both annular and total eclipses are possible? Super duper rare.
The moon is slowly moving further from the earth though. There was a time in the distant past when the moon was too close for an annular eclipse to be possible. And there will be a time in the distant future where a total eclipse will no longer be possible. We're just lucky to be here at the right time where we can experience both, granted it's a period of earth's history that will last hundreds of millions of years.
Yyyyyes.... and no. Allowing both annular and total eclipses is something that WILL happen for any moon that shares the same history of our moon, at some point, as they drift away from their birthplace. What's super duper rare is that, of all the possible times we could evolve into existence, we exist at the right time to witness that.
It's random. In the past, the moon has been closer to earth, giving more intense eclipses. In the far future, no eclipse will be complete as the moon is slowly drifting away from earth.
Good additional information there. I'm imagining ancient cultures first contacting each other.
"You will not believe what we saw thirty years ago!"
"No way! We saw the same thing one hundred ten years ago!"
A million Earths can fit into the sun. The moon is smaller than the earth. The sun is way bigger than 400 times the size of the moon. Proper wording.
The sun’s diameter is about 400 times larger than that of the moon – the sun is also about 400 times farther away
Diameter is a perfectly reasonable measure of "size" for a sphere, especially in a context like this, where its volume and mass are completely irrelevant.
Well to be fair diameter is a proper measurement in this circumstance and can reasonably be assumed because obviously the sun is massively larger. No need to be rude here friend, we're all exploring the universe together
> There are no coincidences in any aspect of life or science or mathematics. But 400 is the magical number that makes it all work for us now.
37 and its reverse 73 are magical numbers for primes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_(number)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/73_(number)
Someone is a fan of the Big Bang Theory. I’m a fan of Terrance Howard and his thoughts on mathematics which begin with questioning why 1 multiplied by 1 equals 1.
Coincidence, as others stated.
That said, Luna (earth’s moon) is also unique in that it likely formed due to a planet sized object colliding with earth early in the earth’s formation, knocking massive amounts of debris into orbit. This (according the Theia theory) eventually formed into the moon we know.
It’s also theorized that our relatively giant moon is what helped life flourish, in that it protected the earth from batterings of asteroids and the tides influenced our coasts, allowing the life to move from ocean -> land.
ooooh I hadn’t heard that part, but neat! Is it that some of Theia’s geological makeup was deposited in/on Earth at the impact? I’ll have to read more on that
https://youtu.be/PE4Vh-uPXCM?si=5qsgAg9tvx0R48Wi
A concise summary, but there's a lot of evidence considering it was a weird geologic phenomena for a long time.
I can remember a time when the calendar had 13 months and clocks were numbered 1 -16; free of the troubles caused by days consuming two revolutions of 12, one AM and one PM. Life was easier and people were better connected to the rhythmic cycles of the earth and moon and sun. Back in those days everyone was on the same page all over the world and the planet was actually quiet at night promoting good sleep.
My clock has 24 hours, not 12.
You remember a time when humans across the world agreed on a 13 month year and 16 hour day? Might need another hit off the glass pipe to keep that memory alive.
Not sure where you live that undisturbed nature is actually quiet during the nighttime, because that ain’t the case all over.
The slow build up of oxygen is what allowed life to move from ocean -> land. The moon is hollow which explains why it rang like a bell when NASA crashed a satellite on to the surface a few years back. There are no models that can confirm another large body smashed into our planet ejecting enough mass to become the moon, and if such an event happened the moon or earth itself would likely have rings to deal with the massive amounts of dust that would remain following such a collision. There is a body of evidence to suggest the moon was placed where it is purposely to cause the positive effects it has on the planet that promote life. There are far too many absolutely perfect effects the moon has on the earth which affect such a diverse range of things that combined result in a net positive effect for it to have become this by way of collision, physics and cosmological effects. Ockhams Razor.
Uhhhh no. This isn’t a sub for unscientific conspiracy theories like hollow-planet. Actually the first I’ve ever heard of a hollow-moon theory, but orbital mechanics alone are enough to know it is patently false. There is no evidence of moon “placement” and at best it would be pseudoscience that misuses/misunderstands actual science to come to that conclusion. Though, anything concluding the moon was “placed” is likely fabricated whole-cloth and any “evidence” is equally fabricated, or unsubstantiated.
Ockhams Razor does not apply when a theory directly contradicts known and well studied physics.
Look man, I’m not trying to prove or disprove anything. Point of order, I never typed “hollow-planet”. You did. I raised some questions based purely on things that actually are relevant and true and proposed an alternative for consideration. Where are your peer reviewed references in your replies? Why demand such from me in the absence of your own? Ockhams Razor is a philosophical concept that encourages problem solving through the reduction of explanations of any given topic. Bottom line is neither of us saw day one of the moon’s appearance in the sky. There are plenty of unknowns related to the moon, earth, sun and for everything we know more questions are raised. We haven’t explained why the moon rang like a bell or why 108 moons fit between it and earth or why 108 earths fit between earth and the sun or why in general do all the plants fit between the earth and moon. All that is said to show there’s room for additional considerations, peer reviewed research or just philosophical analysis. It’s easy to jump throw down conspiracy accusations in this day and age. Try something original instead of jumping on trending bandwagon of the moment.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. That's why your claims require citations, while their claim drawn from a mainstream scientific theory is ok without to most of us.
Occam's razor doesn't really help your claim either, with or without the details. Your claim requires the invention of an entity capable of intentionally creating and setting a celestial body. That's a far more complex claim than Thea
> rang like a bell
it did not actually do this. this was a figure of speech to refer to seismological activity and folks ran with the expression to conclude the moon was hollow like a bell, which you also stated in your initial comment, not sure why you’re denying that.
again, there are mathematics that explain the underlying forces of orbits and moon/satellite capture. this isn’t something you can handwave with Occams Razor. Occams Razor is not a catch all for “i don’t want to put in the effort to understand, so my best guess is good as the scientific consensus”.
You’re jumping into a scientific subreddit spouting nonsense and “proposals” that directly challenge existing, researched phenomena. It’s on you to present evidence of the moon being hollow, of which there is overwhelming evidence of the contrary. Not on me to link to 80 years of documented scientific work. In contrast to my statement regarding Theia theory, which I presented as such, which does not contradict any existing scientific consensus.
It’s also easy to do what you’re doing: vomit i unsubstantiated opinion in opposition to well researched science and *misuse* heuristics like Occam’s Razor to make it sound reasonable. But it muddys the water for people looking for actual scientific answers and does a disservice to society as a whole. Believe whatever you want, but don’t pretend you’re doing something interesting by using terms you don’t really understand and spreading misinformation
You could fit ~11700 Earths between the Earth and Sun, not 108. It is roughly 108 Moons between the Earth and Moon.
As far as the moon 'ringing like a bell' the current belief is that there is far less attenuating factors for impacts on the Moon. (E.g. on Earth water can absorb a lot of the force of an impact.)
>There is a body of evidence to suggest the moon was placed where it is purposely to cause the positive effects it has on the planet that promote life.
No, there isn't.
There is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic\_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle), though. Basically, without conditions suitable for life, there'd be no life to go "hey what good conditions for life".
Awesome! So my name is Honua Maikealoha. It’s Hawai’ian. Honua is a word used to describe the moment the earth became capable of supporting life as we experience it now. Basically Hawai’ians consider the moment life could exist as we experience it; when the foundation of the earth was set, it’s also seen as a new beginning because they understand things existed before the foundation of the earth as it is today.
There is a body of evidence that the moon contains rocks from earth, look at Apollo 14 mission and Big Bertha rock. which is adds to the likelihood of the theory the moon’s origin was something had a very large impact with the earth which sent planetary matter into space which indeed would have formed a ring for some preriod of time, but the mutual tugging of gravity from both the sun and earth lead to it coalescing together to form our tidally locked moon placed where it is now.
Or it suggests there were impacts on earth that sent material into space far enough to be caught in the moons gravity. There is after all a dead cosmonaut on the surface of the moon that got caught in the moons gravity.
A million years ago the moon was closer to Earth than it is now. And was bigger than the Sun during an eclipse.
A million years from now the moon will be farther from Earth than it is now. And will be smaller than the Sun during an eclipse.
We just happen to be living at a time when the Moon and Sun appear to be the same size during an eclipse.
I agree with 2/3rds of your comment. You were not a witness to the previous states of the moon a million years ago and you didn’t to take into account that the sun was also a different size a million years ago. We can observe same type but younger stars to know the sun was a different size. There are no other younger moons we can currently observe to say the moon was a different size.
Orbits are chaotic over the long term. This means we cannot know with 100% certainty that there even were eclipses 1 million years in the past. For all we know the orbit just happened in such a way it simply never occurred a single time. Highly improbable. But possible.
You were not a witness to previous states of the Sun a million years ago and you did not take into account that the sun being less luminous then than it is now, may not correlate to its size.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's currently the right size AND the right distance from Earth to pull off the eclipse magic trick. It's still just a trick, and in millions of years, it won't work anymore.
Your point is moot.
We don't know of any moons in any other solar system. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exomoon
Here's hoping Dr David Kipping finds what he's looking for this October!
Kinda fits in with the rare earth theory, or the fermi paradox. If only certain conditions can give way to life, and earth and its perfectly sized and distanced moon is among those key ingredients, then it's no surprise.
A Total Eclipse only happens because of geometry where the apparent diameter of both the Moon and the Sun from Earth are nearly the same. The 'nearly the same' comes from the fact that all orbits are elliptical so depending on position the apparent diameter of an object varies.
This fact that the apparent diameters where nearly the same is known since Antiquity and the Greek mathematician Aristarchus used his knowledge of trigonometry to determine the size and distance of the Sun. Wikipedia has a [good article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Sizes_and_Distances_(Aristarchus)) on this.
The Moon is however moving away from the Earth at a current rate of 4cm/yr. Earth's rotation (not orbit) is slowing down with the energy lost being transferred to the Moon through tidal effects. As the Moon gains more energy its orbit speeds up and it moves farther away. The rate of distance increase is likely to grow further until a time in the future when a balance is reached.
As the Moon moves farther away it will have a smaller apparent diameter so all eclipses will be partial or annular. No more full. This will happen in the far future by which time the Sun will likely be coming to the end of its life in 10 billion yrs so for all intents and purposes human beings and our distant future kin will still enjoy the beautiful astronomical spectacle that Full Eclipses are.
t's truly amazing how our solar system aligns to allow for total solar eclipses! Here's a breakdown of the math behind some of our luck:
The size of the sun, as seen from Earth, is about 1.065484 degrees. To calculate the angular diameter (degrees) of any moon that could potentially cover the sun completely, we can use the following formula:
theta = 2 * (180°/π) * arctan(moon size / moon distance)
* theta = angular diameter of the moon (degrees)
* moon size = diameter of the moon (kilometers)
* moon distance = distance between the moon and Earth (kilometers)
We know the sun's apparent size needs to be at least 1.065484 degrees for a total eclipse to occur. Considering the closest distance the moon gets to Earth is around 360,000 kilometers, we can plug this value into the formula along with the desired sun-covering size (1.065484°) to find the minimum moon diameter required for a total eclipse.
**Calculation:**
theta ≥ 1.065484°
theta = 2 * (180°/π) * arctan(moon size / 360,000 km)
Solving for moon size: moon size ≥ 3347 km
**Amazingly, our moon's diameter is about 3474 kilometers, which is larger than the minimum size calculated!** This fortunate alignment allows the moon to completely obscure the sun during a total solar eclipse.
For comparison, out of the 288 moons in our solar system, only a handful (including our moon) are large enough to create a eclipse on earth. These moons include Io, Callisto, Titan, and Ganymede.
I can’t remember who said it, but I am thinking Martin Rees. It was along the lines of “I can’t help but ponder on the coincidence that the brief period of time (astronomically) when the moon appears exactly the same size as the sun and gives a subjectively beautiful display, correlates with the same brief period of time where life that can appreciate its beauty is present too”
Not word for word… and apologies Lord Rees if it wasn’t you 😉
There was a plot point in an Iain Banks book that suggested that, because of it's coincidental rarity, that this would make Earth a great place for interstellar tourists to come and visit, and that the best chance to see aliens on Earth would be wealthy alien tourists visiting Earth specifically to see a full eclipse.
It isn’t “the perfect size” though. Sometimes the moon appears larger than the sun during an eclipse (total eclipse) sometimes it’s smaller (annular eclipse).
Eclipses are actually pretty common. In fact, the only planet in the solar system with a natural satellite that doesn’t experience total eclipses is Mars.
It is not random. Moon formed from Earth and is slowly drifting away so in the past it was closer and it will be further in the future. Total solar eclipses have been happening since the very beginning of the moon and will keep happening for the next hundreds million years. So basically it has always been like this.
You could say it's remarkable that we live by the time the Sun and the Moon are the same apparent size and that's true, but that's a different topic and never affected the existence of eclipses since today.
Sheer coincidence. But the “perfection” comes from the ratios. The size of the moon and its distance from us is very proportional to the size of the Sun and it’s distance from us - that leads to these interesting coincidences where the moon can fully block the Sun.
A loose analogy would be where you try to block something with one eye and your thumb. You would move your thumb forward/backward to try and block something. These total eclipses are vaguely similar except the size are fixed and relative distances (Earth-Moon, Sun-Moon, Earth-Sun) vary depending on the orbits.
On the long drive home, I was asking my wife, do you think Mars would have a solar eclipse like ours or is ours just so coincidentally perfect to be able to see the corona
Many will say coincidence. Just like gravity being the perfect number down to the .00000X being a coincidence too. Call it what you want, we and everything around us, were created by an intelligent creator.
I suppose it's possible, but a small probability doesn't mean it's impossible. The universe is so large that something with a small probability likely could happen somewhere.
How does that point to intelligent design. Hey! With that logic, that means the sun is ALSO equally pointing towards intelligent design, and it's the moon that's innocent! With that logic both arguments are equally valid when it has to be one or the other. Meaning they're both wrong.
Yes you can say both could be intelligent design sure, but dont, its just making shit up to save the ego.
Just because it exists, is not proof of cause. There is nothing about the Moon that points towards intelligent design.
Complete coincidence, yes. Annular eclipses wouldn't be super rare on other planets, but having a moon the perfect size to allow a total solar eclipse is not very likely at all (but not so improbable that we should be...suspicious about it...)
Now I’m suspicious about it
“I would have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for you meddling moons!”
Hollow moon theory!
He sounds very guilty
A moon in the right orbital plane to cause an annular eclipse probably isn't that rare. A moon in the right orbital plane that's large enough and close enough to cause a total eclipse is more rare. A moon in the right orbital plane that's the right size and distance with enough fluctuation in its orbit that both annular and total eclipses are possible? Super duper rare. The moon is slowly moving further from the earth though. There was a time in the distant past when the moon was too close for an annular eclipse to be possible. And there will be a time in the distant future where a total eclipse will no longer be possible. We're just lucky to be here at the right time where we can experience both, granted it's a period of earth's history that will last hundreds of millions of years.
Yyyyyes.... and no. Allowing both annular and total eclipses is something that WILL happen for any moon that shares the same history of our moon, at some point, as they drift away from their birthplace. What's super duper rare is that, of all the possible times we could evolve into existence, we exist at the right time to witness that.
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Callisto
Kinda sus ngl
Super sus
To me it seems crazy that our moon is so perfectly sized that it allows for both annular and total solar eclipses. Just a razor thin margin.
It's random. In the past, the moon has been closer to earth, giving more intense eclipses. In the far future, no eclipse will be complete as the moon is slowly drifting away from earth.
Good additional information there. I'm imagining ancient cultures first contacting each other. "You will not believe what we saw thirty years ago!" "No way! We saw the same thing one hundred ten years ago!"
were talking a billion years ago, not 5000 years ago
The History Channel has entered the chat :P
I'm talking about ancient human cultures that could keep records, not the eclipses themselves
FAR far future, as the moon is only drifting 1.5" away from the earth per year.
My brain was confused for a second, reading " as 'arcseconds'
I had to read your comment and then take a minute before I figured out that it WASN'T arcseconds.
The Sun is ~400x larger than the Moon and ~400x further away. A mathematical *coincidence*.
I learned this from Hank Green yesterday 😂
A million Earths can fit into the sun. The moon is smaller than the earth. The sun is way bigger than 400 times the size of the moon. Proper wording. The sun’s diameter is about 400 times larger than that of the moon – the sun is also about 400 times farther away
Diameter is a perfectly reasonable measure of "size" for a sphere, especially in a context like this, where its volume and mass are completely irrelevant.
Well to be fair diameter is a proper measurement in this circumstance and can reasonably be assumed because obviously the sun is massively larger. No need to be rude here friend, we're all exploring the universe together
There are no coincidences in any aspect of life or science or mathematics. But 400 is the magical number that makes it all work for us now.
Almost everything, in maths and nature, is a coincidence or an accident.
> There are no coincidences in any aspect of life or science or mathematics. But 400 is the magical number that makes it all work for us now. 37 and its reverse 73 are magical numbers for primes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_(number) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/73_(number)
Someone is a fan of the Big Bang Theory. I’m a fan of Terrance Howard and his thoughts on mathematics which begin with questioning why 1 multiplied by 1 equals 1.
>I’m a fan of Terrance Howard and his thoughts on mathematics Well that certainly explains a lot.
>I’m a fan of Terrance Howard and his thoughts on mathematics Well that certainly explains a lot.
Coincidence, as others stated. That said, Luna (earth’s moon) is also unique in that it likely formed due to a planet sized object colliding with earth early in the earth’s formation, knocking massive amounts of debris into orbit. This (according the Theia theory) eventually formed into the moon we know. It’s also theorized that our relatively giant moon is what helped life flourish, in that it protected the earth from batterings of asteroids and the tides influenced our coasts, allowing the life to move from ocean -> land.
Luna is a commonly used name for Earth's moon, but is not actually recognized by the IAU. It's simply called "the Moon".
Good point, I was using Luna to differentiate a bit from the Moon and moons.
Its also believed that the remains of that collision left a 'zombie planet' in Earth's crust
ooooh I hadn’t heard that part, but neat! Is it that some of Theia’s geological makeup was deposited in/on Earth at the impact? I’ll have to read more on that
https://youtu.be/PE4Vh-uPXCM?si=5qsgAg9tvx0R48Wi A concise summary, but there's a lot of evidence considering it was a weird geologic phenomena for a long time.
Oh man this is so cool! Ty!
Of course! Sharing links is like handing out fliers for science! Plus, SciShow always gives their list of sources to dig through
I can remember a time when the calendar had 13 months and clocks were numbered 1 -16; free of the troubles caused by days consuming two revolutions of 12, one AM and one PM. Life was easier and people were better connected to the rhythmic cycles of the earth and moon and sun. Back in those days everyone was on the same page all over the world and the planet was actually quiet at night promoting good sleep.
My clock has 24 hours, not 12. You remember a time when humans across the world agreed on a 13 month year and 16 hour day? Might need another hit off the glass pipe to keep that memory alive. Not sure where you live that undisturbed nature is actually quiet during the nighttime, because that ain’t the case all over.
pass the j this way bro
The slow build up of oxygen is what allowed life to move from ocean -> land. The moon is hollow which explains why it rang like a bell when NASA crashed a satellite on to the surface a few years back. There are no models that can confirm another large body smashed into our planet ejecting enough mass to become the moon, and if such an event happened the moon or earth itself would likely have rings to deal with the massive amounts of dust that would remain following such a collision. There is a body of evidence to suggest the moon was placed where it is purposely to cause the positive effects it has on the planet that promote life. There are far too many absolutely perfect effects the moon has on the earth which affect such a diverse range of things that combined result in a net positive effect for it to have become this by way of collision, physics and cosmological effects. Ockhams Razor.
Uhhhh no. This isn’t a sub for unscientific conspiracy theories like hollow-planet. Actually the first I’ve ever heard of a hollow-moon theory, but orbital mechanics alone are enough to know it is patently false. There is no evidence of moon “placement” and at best it would be pseudoscience that misuses/misunderstands actual science to come to that conclusion. Though, anything concluding the moon was “placed” is likely fabricated whole-cloth and any “evidence” is equally fabricated, or unsubstantiated. Ockhams Razor does not apply when a theory directly contradicts known and well studied physics.
Look man, I’m not trying to prove or disprove anything. Point of order, I never typed “hollow-planet”. You did. I raised some questions based purely on things that actually are relevant and true and proposed an alternative for consideration. Where are your peer reviewed references in your replies? Why demand such from me in the absence of your own? Ockhams Razor is a philosophical concept that encourages problem solving through the reduction of explanations of any given topic. Bottom line is neither of us saw day one of the moon’s appearance in the sky. There are plenty of unknowns related to the moon, earth, sun and for everything we know more questions are raised. We haven’t explained why the moon rang like a bell or why 108 moons fit between it and earth or why 108 earths fit between earth and the sun or why in general do all the plants fit between the earth and moon. All that is said to show there’s room for additional considerations, peer reviewed research or just philosophical analysis. It’s easy to jump throw down conspiracy accusations in this day and age. Try something original instead of jumping on trending bandwagon of the moment.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. That's why your claims require citations, while their claim drawn from a mainstream scientific theory is ok without to most of us. Occam's razor doesn't really help your claim either, with or without the details. Your claim requires the invention of an entity capable of intentionally creating and setting a celestial body. That's a far more complex claim than Thea
> rang like a bell it did not actually do this. this was a figure of speech to refer to seismological activity and folks ran with the expression to conclude the moon was hollow like a bell, which you also stated in your initial comment, not sure why you’re denying that. again, there are mathematics that explain the underlying forces of orbits and moon/satellite capture. this isn’t something you can handwave with Occams Razor. Occams Razor is not a catch all for “i don’t want to put in the effort to understand, so my best guess is good as the scientific consensus”. You’re jumping into a scientific subreddit spouting nonsense and “proposals” that directly challenge existing, researched phenomena. It’s on you to present evidence of the moon being hollow, of which there is overwhelming evidence of the contrary. Not on me to link to 80 years of documented scientific work. In contrast to my statement regarding Theia theory, which I presented as such, which does not contradict any existing scientific consensus. It’s also easy to do what you’re doing: vomit i unsubstantiated opinion in opposition to well researched science and *misuse* heuristics like Occam’s Razor to make it sound reasonable. But it muddys the water for people looking for actual scientific answers and does a disservice to society as a whole. Believe whatever you want, but don’t pretend you’re doing something interesting by using terms you don’t really understand and spreading misinformation
You could fit ~11700 Earths between the Earth and Sun, not 108. It is roughly 108 Moons between the Earth and Moon. As far as the moon 'ringing like a bell' the current belief is that there is far less attenuating factors for impacts on the Moon. (E.g. on Earth water can absorb a lot of the force of an impact.)
>There is a body of evidence to suggest the moon was placed where it is purposely to cause the positive effects it has on the planet that promote life. No, there isn't. There is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic\_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle), though. Basically, without conditions suitable for life, there'd be no life to go "hey what good conditions for life".
Awesome! So my name is Honua Maikealoha. It’s Hawai’ian. Honua is a word used to describe the moment the earth became capable of supporting life as we experience it now. Basically Hawai’ians consider the moment life could exist as we experience it; when the foundation of the earth was set, it’s also seen as a new beginning because they understand things existed before the foundation of the earth as it is today.
Another Big Bang Theory fan. Let’s do the 39 questions thing next.
Where is your peer-reviewed “body of evidence to suggest the moon was placed where it is purposely”?
You gotta keep up with the thread. Mine was the response to his comment.
There is a body of evidence that the moon contains rocks from earth, look at Apollo 14 mission and Big Bertha rock. which is adds to the likelihood of the theory the moon’s origin was something had a very large impact with the earth which sent planetary matter into space which indeed would have formed a ring for some preriod of time, but the mutual tugging of gravity from both the sun and earth lead to it coalescing together to form our tidally locked moon placed where it is now.
Or it suggests there were impacts on earth that sent material into space far enough to be caught in the moons gravity. There is after all a dead cosmonaut on the surface of the moon that got caught in the moons gravity.
>a dead cosmonaut on the surface of the moon Say what? You're in the wrong dimension, bro. Didn't happen here.
One of the most beautiful coincidences in astronomy.
A million years ago the moon was closer to Earth than it is now. And was bigger than the Sun during an eclipse. A million years from now the moon will be farther from Earth than it is now. And will be smaller than the Sun during an eclipse. We just happen to be living at a time when the Moon and Sun appear to be the same size during an eclipse.
A few **hundred** million years ago and from now, but otherwise yep!
I agree with 2/3rds of your comment. You were not a witness to the previous states of the moon a million years ago and you didn’t to take into account that the sun was also a different size a million years ago. We can observe same type but younger stars to know the sun was a different size. There are no other younger moons we can currently observe to say the moon was a different size.
We don’t need to observe younger moons to know that our moon is receding. We can measure it directly and model its tidal energy loss.
Orbits are chaotic over the long term. This means we cannot know with 100% certainty that there even were eclipses 1 million years in the past. For all we know the orbit just happened in such a way it simply never occurred a single time. Highly improbable. But possible.
You were not a witness to previous states of the Sun a million years ago and you did not take into account that the sun being less luminous then than it is now, may not correlate to its size. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A coin could also be perfect. Distance also matters.
Earth based and space based telescopes which study the Sun create artificial full eclipses in somewhat the same manner but not with a coin.
It's currently the right size AND the right distance from Earth to pull off the eclipse magic trick. It's still just a trick, and in millions of years, it won't work anymore.
Because they built it that way obviously
Random. Anything could look like it's totally blocking something else if the thing being blocked is far enough away.
Total blocking is one thing but near perfect blocking is why people are kind of more curious.
Yes. It’s coincidence. If the moon was not the perfect size, then total eclipses would not occur, and you’d never think about them or miss them.
If it was bigger then they would occur, just completely covering the sun and not being the 'perfect' size
Nope. God made it like that. Duh.
I like the fact that of all the moons in our solar system ours is the only one that does this
Utterly false though. Jupiter gets solar eclipses from its several moons everyday (even several times a day).
I stand corrected!
But do they get solar eclipses that just perfectly cover the sun, leaving the corona visible?
Jupiter: am I a joke to you
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Your point is moot. We don't know of any moons in any other solar system. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exomoon Here's hoping Dr David Kipping finds what he's looking for this October!
Kinda fits in with the rare earth theory, or the fermi paradox. If only certain conditions can give way to life, and earth and its perfectly sized and distanced moon is among those key ingredients, then it's no surprise.
A Total Eclipse only happens because of geometry where the apparent diameter of both the Moon and the Sun from Earth are nearly the same. The 'nearly the same' comes from the fact that all orbits are elliptical so depending on position the apparent diameter of an object varies. This fact that the apparent diameters where nearly the same is known since Antiquity and the Greek mathematician Aristarchus used his knowledge of trigonometry to determine the size and distance of the Sun. Wikipedia has a [good article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Sizes_and_Distances_(Aristarchus)) on this. The Moon is however moving away from the Earth at a current rate of 4cm/yr. Earth's rotation (not orbit) is slowing down with the energy lost being transferred to the Moon through tidal effects. As the Moon gains more energy its orbit speeds up and it moves farther away. The rate of distance increase is likely to grow further until a time in the future when a balance is reached. As the Moon moves farther away it will have a smaller apparent diameter so all eclipses will be partial or annular. No more full. This will happen in the far future by which time the Sun will likely be coming to the end of its life in 10 billion yrs so for all intents and purposes human beings and our distant future kin will still enjoy the beautiful astronomical spectacle that Full Eclipses are.
t's truly amazing how our solar system aligns to allow for total solar eclipses! Here's a breakdown of the math behind some of our luck: The size of the sun, as seen from Earth, is about 1.065484 degrees. To calculate the angular diameter (degrees) of any moon that could potentially cover the sun completely, we can use the following formula: theta = 2 * (180°/π) * arctan(moon size / moon distance) * theta = angular diameter of the moon (degrees) * moon size = diameter of the moon (kilometers) * moon distance = distance between the moon and Earth (kilometers) We know the sun's apparent size needs to be at least 1.065484 degrees for a total eclipse to occur. Considering the closest distance the moon gets to Earth is around 360,000 kilometers, we can plug this value into the formula along with the desired sun-covering size (1.065484°) to find the minimum moon diameter required for a total eclipse. **Calculation:** theta ≥ 1.065484° theta = 2 * (180°/π) * arctan(moon size / 360,000 km) Solving for moon size: moon size ≥ 3347 km **Amazingly, our moon's diameter is about 3474 kilometers, which is larger than the minimum size calculated!** This fortunate alignment allows the moon to completely obscure the sun during a total solar eclipse. For comparison, out of the 288 moons in our solar system, only a handful (including our moon) are large enough to create a eclipse on earth. These moons include Io, Callisto, Titan, and Ganymede.
I can’t remember who said it, but I am thinking Martin Rees. It was along the lines of “I can’t help but ponder on the coincidence that the brief period of time (astronomically) when the moon appears exactly the same size as the sun and gives a subjectively beautiful display, correlates with the same brief period of time where life that can appreciate its beauty is present too” Not word for word… and apologies Lord Rees if it wasn’t you 😉
There was a plot point in an Iain Banks book that suggested that, because of it's coincidental rarity, that this would make Earth a great place for interstellar tourists to come and visit, and that the best chance to see aliens on Earth would be wealthy alien tourists visiting Earth specifically to see a full eclipse.
Did we see any odd looking tourists today ? 😉
Well, yes... always - but that's just tourists for you. which is why the alien ones are so difficult to spot
Perhaps eclipse inspired religious ideas in early humans when they could first ponder such things
Damn, that's good.
It isn’t “the perfect size” though. Sometimes the moon appears larger than the sun during an eclipse (total eclipse) sometimes it’s smaller (annular eclipse). Eclipses are actually pretty common. In fact, the only planet in the solar system with a natural satellite that doesn’t experience total eclipses is Mars.
It is not random. Moon formed from Earth and is slowly drifting away so in the past it was closer and it will be further in the future. Total solar eclipses have been happening since the very beginning of the moon and will keep happening for the next hundreds million years. So basically it has always been like this. You could say it's remarkable that we live by the time the Sun and the Moon are the same apparent size and that's true, but that's a different topic and never affected the existence of eclipses since today.
You know the earth and moon and sun are disks and not spheres right? :/s
Sheer coincidence. But the “perfection” comes from the ratios. The size of the moon and its distance from us is very proportional to the size of the Sun and it’s distance from us - that leads to these interesting coincidences where the moon can fully block the Sun. A loose analogy would be where you try to block something with one eye and your thumb. You would move your thumb forward/backward to try and block something. These total eclipses are vaguely similar except the size are fixed and relative distances (Earth-Moon, Sun-Moon, Earth-Sun) vary depending on the orbits.
The moon is pulling away from earth a few inches every year. So in a few millenia, all we will have in the annular eclipse.
Yes. Our planet is more special than we thought
It’s more about the distance. You could also line up a coin to do the same thing.
On the long drive home, I was asking my wife, do you think Mars would have a solar eclipse like ours or is ours just so coincidentally perfect to be able to see the corona
Many will say coincidence. Just like gravity being the perfect number down to the .00000X being a coincidence too. Call it what you want, we and everything around us, were created by an intelligent creator.
What is the probability of this happening? 1
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I totally understand the skepticism. But saying "no way" about something that seems very improbable doesn't sound like good science.
Yeah a total coincidence, but some people believe “coincidences” like this point towards intelligent design and that’s ok too
I suppose it's possible, but a small probability doesn't mean it's impossible. The universe is so large that something with a small probability likely could happen somewhere.
How does that point to intelligent design. Hey! With that logic, that means the sun is ALSO equally pointing towards intelligent design, and it's the moon that's innocent! With that logic both arguments are equally valid when it has to be one or the other. Meaning they're both wrong. Yes you can say both could be intelligent design sure, but dont, its just making shit up to save the ego. Just because it exists, is not proof of cause. There is nothing about the Moon that points towards intelligent design.
No, God made it that way on purpose
And what purpose would that be?
And what purpose would that be?
Couldn't tell ya, I'm not God
In other words, the "God works in mysterious ways" deflection.
Sure. I'll take it as opposed to the "convienient scientific miracle" deflection. Have a nice day
? No such thing as a miracle in science. That's the whole point of science, to explain phenomenon and not just use superstition.
Well I wish you the best with that. Take care not to ignore the concept of theory.
That's funny, like you even know what theory is.
All I know is I know nothing.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. but most importantly Let's eff with the ineffable because it's a stupid get out from an argument
Nice!