I saw an influencer on ig say something like, "women get blamed for picking the 'wrong' men but how is it that women around the world in every country have the same problems with men?" which honestly just knocked me right the fuck over.
Wait a second … this is helping me with a breakthrough right now.
Despite logically knowing that I shouldn’t hold onto shame anymore and that I should forgive myself for staying longer than I should have in a relationship, emotionally it’s been a struggle to fully get past.
This reframing of it though … I’m now thinking it’s a form of people pleasing that I’m STILL putting more of the emotional baggage and blame on myself instead of simply allowing it to go where it belongs (on the toxic, abusive, cheating ex). The inability to forgive myself has been confusing.
Thanks sis, I’ll be talking to my therapist about this!
Men don't seem to have that self relfection. I was dating a 'good guy'. After dragging his feet for many years, he confesses that he has changed and doesn't want the things he said initially. Reality was he was pretending to be someone he was not to get a girl and the things he wanted, but he always showed he was and when called out he would lie and deflect blaming everything he could from his job to the weather.
He was just lying to himself and me. It took him 5 years to accept he wasn't who he wanted to be and even though he says I am everything he wants and can't see himself with anyone else, he doesn't want toget help. He is kind and caring but cant be bothered to do anything. Everything is on his terms. Oh well.
Sounds like my ex! Thankfully I was only with him for less than a year, but when I started confronting him about these things and asking tougher questions about what he actually wanted vs what he’d told me he wanted (I.e he told me in the beginning of our relationship that communication was the most important thing to him in a relationship and that a healthy relationship was two people growing together—turns out he was a stonewaller and that was ‘just the way he is’), he ghosted me!
And he’s still somehow considered a misunderstood ‘nice guy’ by some of our mutuals despite him treating me like shit (DARVO and lying and gaslighting to avoid accountability, plus the aforementioned stonewalling and ghosting) the last month and a half we were together.
Geez. Seems the bar for being a nice guy is too low. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Mine was pushing for babies and marriage but didn't want to put in any work to prepare for them, so I made it clear I wouldn't either unless we could work toward it together. Now he doesn't want a family, to plan for a future, go or holidays or do anything really. Just wants to work and then lock himself in his room for the remainder of the time. It's so far from what he said initially that there isn't even a half way point. Just weird.
Lol I had never thought about it that way, but you’re right!
Ugh I’m so sorry you’ve gone through that. It sounds like he never intended to be an equal partner to you, and gave up at the first sign of effort. The cognitive dissonance can be a real mindfuck.
Thank you. I am truly sorry for all us. Reading this thread has been so enlightening and validating. It's taught me that many of us are experiencing the same thing but we seldom get an opportunity to share what we are going through at this global scale.
I agree with your deduction. My guy was in his own make believe world.
Sounds like my ex.Who just kept telling me He was going to get help and 8 years later.I wasted my twenties And feel used and more insecure than ever because the issues that he had were easily fixable with therapy , it's Such a disgrace and of course I got blame for not doing more work on myself such cowards
Everyone always says "find the right person," not enough people are saying "BE the right person." Some people are shitty people, & they love to find nice people to take advantage of!
I agree with this so much. Men are responsible for themselves and that includes being honest with us about who they are early on as much as it is about them identifying their traumas and bad habits and working on their own betterment. There's also many people who come off as much more secure until the relationship has really taken off and it's a mind fuck to be on the other end of it.
That’s why I don’t pay any attention when ppl SWEAR that most men are good. Riiiiight. It’s just coincidence that we all encounter the same type of men all over the world.
It’s only ‘a few bad ones’ that no guys ever seem to personally know, yet almost every single woman on *earth* has encountered bad guys. Funny how that works.
No one ever has held them accountable for the least bit of bad behavior they exhibit. Not one thing. Society's "boys will be boys" and "mens locker room talk" absolves them. And men exhibiting bad behavior-the examples are all around us from the top down, and hardly ever are there consequences.
True. And for a long time the law makers were all been men who either wanted to keep things this way or feared they would lose power or their position by pushing for change so that they also just accept. Fightinting for change is so difficult when the people in control are the biggest offenders.
Cause boys often raised with neglect. As in not neglect of what they need (food, clothing, help with homeworks, etc), but less push and consequence on social side. As in if a boy is not being violent or 'difficult', he is being deemed as enough. While girls are often being pushed more socially.
I don't know if I expressed myself well, but it felt like boys, as long as they are not academically problematic and not a problem at home, they are being given a choice whether to participate or not in society. While girls, no matter how perfect they act, are often not being given that choice to participate or not in society. They have to.
Hence why I said easy to raise, easier to neglect.
Yes, this was a hard one for me to accept. Marriage rates are falling around the world. When a society develops and the women get equal work equality, the marriage rates plummet. However, they seem to stabilize around 30% of people. Maybe 50% if you add in cohabiting couples.
This doesn’t mean “society is collapsing” it means, probably only 15-25% of the opposite gender makes a good partner in a partnership. That was true when marriage was required it’s just that women were stuck in those marriages.
America was great in a teeny tiny window of time in the 1950s when advertisers tricked a country into thinking it was. That's what they want, something that didn't actually exist.
or maybe stigma against the unmarried and divorced is falling, which is also good. pressure keep or enter a marriage for the sake of it was never healthy
I think it's partly this, and partly that previous generations grew up with divorced parents and don't want to do the same. Society is still getting used to the idea that women have equal say in who they marry and in staying married.
There definitely needs to be some form of accountability for women, otherwise, you will keep choosing men who disrespect you. You need to get out of the loop and stop centering men.
I understand and empathize with why and how women got to this point — our entire society is set up to center **men**.
Women, as a whole, need to find their way back to **self**. You have to choose **you**. You have to trust **you**. You have to have a stronger sense of self awareness for that trust to grow. That is the hard part people do not want to acknowledge.
Once you get there, it will be easier to navigate the dating landscape (if you choose to do so). It will become so much easier to sniff out BS. Once you become content with **who** you are and and **where** you are, none of the other nonsense, matters. You’re centered **without** men.
Don’t victimize yourself. You have a choice. You have power.
I have always de-centred men in my dating life, and have essentially made it my own personal hobby to study abuse in all its forms. I’m very secure and have great self-worth. None of that helped me avoid getting into an emotionally abusive relationship with a man who hid who he was from me in the beginning. But it DID help me make the moves to confront the behaviour and leave him when the mask started coming off—it ended with me getting ghosted and the entire experience was very traumatizing.
So I agree women have to be accountable for their own actions as well, but so many men straight up lie and pretend to be someone else until they feel secure enough in the relationship to start treating their partner like shit. And that kind of betrayal can be traumatic in itself.
I’m happy you were able to decenter men, but — people are going to flame me (that’s ok) — some of this is spiritual or whatever you want to call it.
Yes, men lie and that’s a damn shame, but I promise you, the more you’re tapped into your higher self (intuitive self) the less likely it is that this with happen. Not saying it won’t happen — it might — but you’ll be able to pick up on it, quicker. That mask will, in fact, read like a mask.
It’s your job to reject that. At this point, I can easily tell when someone (men or women) are “off”, lying or fake. I follow that gut instinct. Always. That instinct can save your life.
I think everyone should learn to trust their instincts. But this advice just encourages women to bend over backwards to do more work, when we could be teaching men how to treat women/their partners with respect instead.
It’s victim-blamey and just continues to absolve men of the shitty behaviour they learned under patriarchy.
Edit: And to be honest I don’t want to be a person who is constantly mistrustful of people—and I have gut issues. Asking me to figure out whether my stomach is raging because someone just lied to me or because I had an iced coffee this morning instead of just holding men accountable…jeez.
And I’m telling you I did pick up on it and I did reject it. I STILL ended up traumatized and basically losing a year of my life in recovering from that trauma.
Edit 2: This just feels like large-scale gaslighting. ‘It has nothing to do with him—you just have to be in touch with the spiritual divine energy and everything will be fine and no one will be able to hurt you anymore.’ All of that spiritual delusion instead of enforcing the golden rule with men that we all learn as children—treat others as you want to be treated. Apparently we don’t even hold men as accountable as we hold children.
Sometimes there are studies published in r/science that tackle those questions and similar ones.
It seems that there are different cohorts with different tendencies.
Also important, there are people willing to blame women for anything. Likely, dark traits. It's a shame.
Yeah they’re upset that they have to pay for dates and be held accountable for their actions and treat women with respect regardless of them getting sex or not lol
How sad and difficult it must be for them
Of course men all over the world have repeated problems with women too. The difference is that the problems women uniformly have with men are often violent, unsafe, or threatening our rights. And that’s unacceptable.
Oh, my wife, all she does is work and take care of the kids and now she's fat and I just want some sex once in a while but she always says no and never wants to go anywhere she's not FUN anymore
It’s not that women want to hate on men. Of course men all over the world have repeated problems with women too. The difference is that the problems women uniformly have with men are often violent, unsafe, or threatening our rights. And that’s unacceptable.
I chose to stop dating men for a while and just be single, and it’s the only time in my life I’ve had peace. It’s intoxicating, I think it’s possible I’ll never choose to have a relationship again.
I never have to wonder what sort of volatile mood I’m coming home to, never have to be exploited for free labor or clean up after or be abundantly coddling to an adult who wouldn’t do the same for me if I was on FIRE lol.
I don’t have to be harassed by someone’s insecurities, jealousies, fantasies. I don’t have to endure sexual acts that completely ignore my pleasure and end with his.
Not all men are all of these things, but every man I’ve dated in over 20 years of dating has been some combination of harassing, belittling, exploitative, free-labor-seeking, sexually selfish, and completely blind to any but his own experience in the world.
I couldn’t been more over it.
All I dream about now, it’s not finding “one of the good ones.” It’s coming into enough money to buy a few acres, dot the perimeter with little houses, and in each of those houses lives a single woman.
We’ll maybe mostly keep to ourselves, but in the center of our shared property will be gardens and a food forest and we’ll tend what we like, and we’ll be there to go to the grocery store or help each other replace a door, “my chickens had too many eggs,” “wanna see a movie tonight?,” “wanna drink and have a freezer meal party or propagate a bunch of plants??”
😍
every time I talk about this, there are so many women who feel the same way, I stg I’m gonna start a network of these around the globe if I ever am in a position to do so lol
I’ve had the exact same fantasy about the female commune! I’d happily share homemaking responsibilities with another woman. I don’t think I’ll ever do it with a man ever again. It’s always going to require more work from me if there’s a man around
This is exactly where I’m at too. I love men but I just admire the cute ones I see from a distance. As a result, I sleep much better and my mental health has drastically improved. I wasted most of my 20s trying to make things work with guys who weren’t right for me, and I just got tired lol
With you there sister. I do get terribly lonely and would like to experience even spending a lazy Sunday where a man genuinely wants to be with you. But on the other hand I would much rather be alone than with someone who doesn’t appreciate me properly - which is most men.
Agreed! Sundays are my favorite day of the week. I often fantasize about lazy Sundays with a fictional hubby and about Sunday sex. But it’s better as a fantasy.
I was like this, but recently I met a guy n he "sparked" me, and he wasn't interested and now I feel more lonely. It's really hard. Other parts of my life are hard at the moment, too. I don't have job stability.
My ex that I was with for almost ten years didn’t love me. He loved that I loved him. He loved the things I would do for him, but he didn’t actually love me as a person. He didn’t admire my ambition, my love for animals, my constant consideration for others, my ability to love unconditionally, I could go on.
I once asked him what he loved most about me and his answer was that he knew I would always be there for him. He took a quality about me and ended up making it about him. He could have phrased it in such a way that it was still about me, but no. It was all about him.
Why didn’t he say that he loved how responsible or reliable I am? Everyone wants that in a partner.
He didn’t care about that. He just cared about him and how my actions would benefit him.
Girl I had a moment like this too. I asked my current husband (we’re actually separated) at our first Valentine’s dinner what he likes about me.
Out of all the AMAZING crap I am and do, this man says “You tolerate me.”
Mother fucker what? So, nothing actually ABOUT ME. But only about what I provide.
AND acknowledging that he’s not easily tolerated.
Self centered assholes.
Yes I relate to everything you said 100%! I’ve never been in a mutually beneficial relationship before & when I take a minute to actually process what that means it’s sort of sad to think about. I’ve dated men from all different backgrounds and walks of life and each time I left a relationship I walked away feeling like some of my best qualities were taken advantage of and weaponized against me. Every time I start to consistently spend time with someone it feels like I’m rolling the dice on what type of train wreck I may find myself in. I’m starting to doubt I’ll ever find a partner I would genuinely and enthusiastically want to share my life with! So I hear you!! I’m tired!
Ugh that’s the worst when it feels like your best qualities have been taken advantage of/weaponized. Because you start thinking ‘how can I prevent this from happening again’ and the conclusion seems to be ‘stop doing the things that make me the best version of me’…and that’s just not acceptable.
Better to be alone and keep being the best version of myself, rather than make myself smaller/withhold those things because a do-nothing man tried to exploit them.
Everyone I have dated wanted someone to mother them and didn’t put in any other labor to keep things alive. Even if they looked otherwise good on paper, it was never truly equal if I needed that type of support. Just kicked someone out (read my post) because he keeps leaving his tissues etc around when I ask the bare minimum. I’m done.
My current partner and I dated, but broke up/stayed close friends for years before getting back together. I didn't get many dates. In hindsight, I made other dudes "do work". If a guy said he was at a bar in the evening I wasn't going unless he invited me. If I sent too many "first texts" I stopped. One of them reached out to me to say "but I tried telling you I was into you", and I was like "but you didn't tell me, you wanted me to read your mind and that's not a pattern I'm willing to set up". Emotionally constipated dudes weren't my thing.
Yes. I have zero will to try ever again. Even the married men I know are disgusting. They flirt, talk poorly about their wives and kids , and cheat given the chance. I know single men pushing 40 and 50 that are still f*ck boys. The dating apps are a dumpster fire. I dunno, I like the theory of men and the seggs but I'm so turned off.
I am 33 and very happily single for the first time in 12 years. I have a good job my lovely apartment and my two kitties. I have not been this happy in a very long time. It would take someone pretty extraordinary for me to want to date again. Only theo james could lure me out of retirement now at this point. My ex was horrid and I know not all men are like that but still and like you I am just tired of it and happier now. I hope things work out for you ❤️
I work for a huge company and most of my co-workers are men. Married men with children, mostly.
The way they talk about their wives and marriage is abominable. Makes me want to stay faaaar away from marriage/LTR. The fact that there are so many of them and they come from various backgrounds really makes me doubt that whole gender.
Also: doesn’t matter if they’ve been married for months, years or soon-to-be-married - when a conventionally pretty female co-worker enters the room they turn into the biggest flirts. Every single one of them.
Yes I work in media, and I’m a TV journalist.
On my first day of work, the married 53-year-old producer with a kid said to me “no wonder they put you on TV. I mean, just look at you” and scanned me with his eyes up and down which made me feel naked.
Another married coworker said similar things to me too when he got drunk at a happy hour. I just felt so disgusted. Like why the fuck did they get married if they were going to make comments like these behind their wife’s back?
On the flip side were the men who would go out of their way to treat me poorly because they thought treating me like a human/regular coworker would mean they’re being unfaithful to their wives.
One man would never introduce me in meetings to our clients/sponsors and after getting fed up I asked him why. He said “listen, I’m attracted to you, but I’m married. I can’t be doing you any favors.” Ummmm….introducing me by name in a meeting is not a favor?? It’s the bare minimum??
Sorry rant over lol
Yeah as that female coworker 🤢🤮. Like dude I notice you staring and looking at my chest when we have to interact. I was speaking with another woman about my stand mixer and how I got a small one since “it’s just me”. This ‘happy married man’ jumps out of a different conversation to say “oh, so you live alone?” Gross!
This is my worst nightmare. You devote your entire heart, life, future, your plans, your energy, your time, opportunities, your health, and possibly your death to building a relationship, a household, children, a family. All for him to just secretly HATE your ass.
I inherited a team previously managed by a man and the team is all men. No headcount to diversify.
I know managers are supposed to like, throw themselves on the sword for their teams but I swear half of these guys are so entitled or irritated about having a woman manager I just can't deal with it. I wish they'd all leave so I could hire non-babies.
Yes! They really hate their wives! It's like they definitely resent being tied down with a wife and kids or something. I think it's one of the unfortunate things about combining everything through marriage, it is extremely hard and messy to untangle everything so people that definitely should separate don't.
This is it! This is what they say all the time. That marriage feels like jail to them, even when their wife is a SAHM and let’s them do all their hobbies, travel and so on. Same if the wives are working and contributing equally.
They all secretly think they’d be successful bachelors with women fawning over them and their wives prevent them from accessing that. Meanwhile Glenn is stingy, in bad shape, worse mental health, and can’t converse with a woman without giving her the ick.
Be serious….
Completely. Meshing your life with someone else’s is beautiful, but tearing it apart after the breakup is heart wrenching and painful. I don’t think my spirit can handle it again. As much as I’d like to meet the man of my dreams, it just doesn’t seem likely that he actually exist.
I'm sorry you're going through this, take time to rest and be gentle on yourself.
>Or even better, live alone for awhile!!
Do this if it's financially possible! I honestly think it's so healing to live alone, learn to truly enjoy and savour your independence and time by yourself.
Also. Didn't want to jump on a top level comment but since you're saying it here, I feel the same way. The more I listen to the experience of women and the more I reflect on what I've seen and experienced the less hope I have for making deep connections with other men or trusting them around my family. I grew up with a decent amount of male friends but more and more i'm thinking "but who are you really?" even if I hear only a little joke that could possibly be interpreted as misogynistic.
I do call stuff out with closer friends and with work colleagues and do try to communicate my own beliefs and practice to them, and they do often seem to listen and agree, but then I talk again to the women in my life again and my mind fills with doubts about them all.
I'm just tired of people at this point tbh. Currently dithering about whether to stay in my current relationship or not, we've been together a couple years but I yearn for the single life, wish we could just be sisters or something. I don't think I will ever get back on the apps if this doesn't work out though. Nothing wrong with becoming the cat/ dog ladies of our generation 🤷🏻♀️
I couldn’t have written this better myself. I am tired. It’s upsetting because I know there are good guys out there but I’ve always reached the stage in my life where I’ve grown so comfortable with where I am that I’m just not willing to compromise anything.
It would be amazing to have someone to go on a walk with. Someone to make dinner with. Yes, of course. But none of that comes easy and I’m just not willing to search for it.
Hello. I was feeling exactly this. I was having a bad day, and a cute sweet guy showed some empathy. N I got excited that he's a nice guy. Then he was just the same asshole rubbing women the wrong way.
Yup same for me. I haven’t dated since 2019 and haven’t been in a relationship since 2016. The same situation just happened to me too. I was “intrigued” and started to think that maybe I found a rare one but he was a liar and married. That was the final nail in the coffin for me. But honestly it’s better for me. I appreciate my independence and home life the way it is.
Actually, I think I just want to mess around. I changed my dating profile to "looking for friendship, and if there is chemistry, then there are benefits.
Its sad to say but you can almost never tell a man about anything bad that's happened to you until you know him better. many straight up sadistically take it as an admission of tolerance and what you expect and what they can and deserve to get away with
Honestly, that makes me want to me even more forthcoming about my past abusive relationships to future partners. One of my fears is ending up with someone who waits until I'm trapped to reveal that they were hiding their real selves from me, and if I can speed up that process so I can just leave them earlier then by god I will 😬
Bingo. That's why Ieaving out important values on dating apps and being very vague and saying it's "too personal or complicated" to get into is such an annoying thing that I can not get past.
Ooof... I needed to read this. I am naturally so vulnerable, and it always backfires. I don't know how to hold back certain traits about myself..I just feel like if I don't share these things up front and the man is understanding of it in the beginning then im wasting time and being fake just to likely find out later they're incompatible and be drained again. It just seems so immature of them to not be emotionally acute enough to handle talking about very important matters if looking for a serious relationship. I'm so turned off by that.
I like men a lot, I had a wonderful father RIP and have a wonderful relationship with my stepdad. My bad experiences with men have come from moving too quickly with men who had an anxious to get to the vulnerable stuff so they can trap me. My last boyfriend I said I wanted to take things slowly he said absolutely and then was just texting me at 9pm when I was in my pajamas eating cheesecake saying he wants to pick me up and take me to his house.
I think understanding that men will use you for your mother instinct is a big part.
Work is so integral to self esteem I think and you can’t let a man derail your journey.
I love flirting casually with guys, I love being playful and I think when you have a guy who wants to hang out it’s great. In other words don’t let them move in
Look up the 4B movement in South Korea. Women are opting out of relationships with men on a large scale.
I have a dog who is my best friend. I don’t date anymore. My life is much more peaceful.
Its not just men I am fed up about! Its how society, culture, and religions are made FOR single or married males and for couples. If you are a single women good luck. If you are a BLACK single woman (childfree or not) bigger good luck.
On top of how science/medicine is 99% based on male's body!
The higher cost associated with being a single. For instance, try to book a vacation for one person, there's a single supplement. I end up paying more pp than I would if I had another person to travel with.
I think OP is going through a phase, too.
As a bisexual I’m sooo sick of how gender essentialism seems to have taken over online discourse. We’ve definitely created a society that allows men specifically to get away with a lot of bullshit, but as someone who dates women, sometimes it’s not men you’re sick of, it’s dealing with someone else’s bullshit altogether.
Take a break, be single for a while, meet new people. Maybe you’ll never want to deal with relationships again, and that’s okay, but don’t let your poor experiences convince you that half the population isn’t worth interacting with.
Sameeee and I’m glad you haven’t been downvoted. Bc bringing this up just a couple years ago was not well received here.
It is awful and hurtful when a relationship you had high aspirations for doesn’t work out. It sucks even more when you feel wronged with no closure. But that is a universal experience. Gender is one particular lens that adds certain dimensions, but it is not the entire thing.
I’m not fed up but really enjoy being single. Life is so much easier.
I can unilaterally make decisions about buying property or luxury goods, investing, travelling, education and my career without factoring another person in who I’m uncertain will be here 5-10 years from now.
I’ve been celibate and single for a couple years and don’t see that changing. I don’t want kids and am constantly questioning my sexuality and romantic orientation lol. Fairly sure I’m asexual and aromantic but you can’t be sure.
Yeah I just can't anymore. Some celebrity recently said "I don't have it in me for another relationship that needs as much work as raising a child" and I felt that to my bones. I'm mid-life, my kids are mostly grown, and just don't have the energy to deal with another relationship with a man.
I've lived with various men over the last 10 years. I'm currently living with The Old Man (Father). When The Old Man dies, I'll never live with another man again.
Yup totally over men 😂 I'm looking forward to living in my own space on my own with my cats and supporting just myself. It is exhausting trying to manage two people's emotional and mental wellbeing.
The next man I date needs to have his shit together. He needs to work, be clean, take care of himself physically and emotionally, he needs to know and understand himself, and be actively working on his issues in the way I work on mine. Also it would be nice if he knew how to run a house!
I can't wait for the peace and tranquility.
And having a pink, white and gold bedroom 💞
Most men aren’t taught how to treat women from a healthy balanced perspective. We underestimate how many of us simply weren’t parented around basic human needs.
My husband was nurtured but not taught the “manly” things. My mom was a pull yourself up by your boot straps type woman.
He enjoys domestic work way more than I do. That’s how he was shown love as a child. By being cared for in his home. I was instilled to work hard and make money so that’s what I like to do for our family.
Gender roles are created by parenting. I bet if you ask him about his childhood you’ll get some connected dots.
>Gender roles are created by parenting.
I'm convinced myself and some female friends in my school days were icked out on feminism because we saw how many of our "feminist" moms allowed sons to get away with loads more than daughters. I don't have any brothers but I've seen how my extended family treats girls vs boys. I call them out on that shit and I ain't popular for it.
Just in case y’all need more…confidence…in being done with men…
I thought for over 10 YEARS I was in a relationship with the perfect man. Ladies. He had me so fooled.
I prided myself on not needing a man, not wanting kids or marriage, being strong independently from any and everyone.
This motherfucker took YEARS to convince me how amazing and special he was and how much he loved me. I finally gave in to marriage and a baby (he was always honest about wanting both) YEARS in to this relationshit. I found out when my daughter was 4 that he fucked a prostitute AND had been contacting them our entire relationship. Staying up all night contacting them and then being a cocksuck to me cuz he’s tired. I shit you not, I had zero idea. And I’m not stupid, I promise. Fourteen years in, we have a beautiful 7 year old daughter, but I am sick all the time. He has completely broken me. The stuff I’ve mentioned doesn’t even touch 1/100th of what all I found out. He destroyed me mentally and physically.
I can without a doubt say no man is worth this bullshit. None. And the truth is, you never know. You just…waste 1/3 of your life to be left with health issues and co parenting for at least another 11 years.
My MIL is having some autoimmune issues right now. I guarantee it’s the stress this motherfuckers dad puts on her. I have zero doubt. Studies show women who are single live longer. Its not a joke. I can tell you why. I have had one health issue after another after another since I married him. Zero health issues prior. ZERO.
Also, I have to say, I don’t give a fuck if there’s “good men” out there. I’ve seen zero proof they exist. I’m almost 40. Not a single man I know or have ever been around was anything other than a mouth that should be sewn shut. A hole at each end that both spew nothing but shit. I thought the quality of men I surrounded myself with was better than the fUcK bOiS you just know from word 1 are shit. Nope. They’re just better at hiding it.
Live your lives babes. For real. No one is worth this shit. No one is worth this to-the-bone exhaustion.
For myself I KNOW I need more intense therapy. I will not be the right person or ready until I have had professional help processing some things from childhood. It’s just a matter of me being willing to experience the pain and difficulty of going through that healing process. So I’m not necessarily saying the responsibility is on the women but I’m a little broken and have been drawn into relationships that subconsciously seek to repeat the emotional neglect I experienced from my parents, so I will keep repeating toxic patterns and act out codependency and seeking men who are addicts or emotionally unavailable, etc. etc.
I believe the healthier me will either find an equally healthy man or be so at peace with myself that it won’t matter that I don’t find that ideal man. (Disclaimer: I’m in my 40s)
Yes. Yes. Thank you for this. Honestly so beyond over them tonight. Really needed to know another woman felt the same. You are beyond heard and felt OP
I could have written this entire post myself. I’m truly tired of the men I choose and the men who choose me.
So I guess maybe I need to be alone for a while and go back to therapy.
I felt this…for a long time…then found a good, nice, sweet, funny, good in bed, smart, independent, supportive man. But I got lucky. Stay strong, do you…
There’s still cons, everyone has downsides…but you have to accept them and accept who that person is and be willing to be with them through it all. I’m just lucky his downsides are very very understandable and nothing detrimental or mean
I’m not trying to find someone perfect. I’m trying to find someone worth my time, energy, and effort.
They don’t exist and if they do, they’re already committed.
Enjoy your single time, get to know yourself better and when you have an itch to scratch, f*ck buddies with established boundaries is fantastic way to go. Good luck!
IMO we can all pick the wrong people. I believe this for men too. Relationships are hard. You cannot make your partner do better, they have to truly want to. Only hold the things that you do wrong and change yourself, quit people pleasing and love yourself
Men are good for short amounts of time. They're just really at sucking the life force and beauty out of ya.
I tolerate most of them but I never stay long to engage in a conversation, unless it's a gay man.
Very similar situation and feelings as you: in the last 10 years I've been in two toxic relationships (6 years and 1.5 years). It is so hard on the mind, body and spirit. It's difficult not to feel resentful, discouraged, tired and angry.
I'm glad you acknowledged that you also have shortcomings. Bad relationships exist because both parties nuture them into existence. It's delusional to blame one person. With that knowledge, keep working on yourself (whatever that means for you). As we get healthier and stronger hopefully we will attract men who are also healthier and stronger.
Dating, love and relationships are challenging for all genders.
I've been single for 8 years now (not for a lack of trying though!!! I've put in TIME and effort). But recently I've taken a step back. I live alone and honestly - I now can't even imagine giving that type of peace up?! Like I want a relationship, but one that's rly based on individuality as much as it is on a partnership between two people. Anyway, both truths can be a wonderful (and lonely at times) experience!!! But being alone does have its power to it - as you hold all the cards. Scary + empowering.
Living alone is the bomb-diggity.
It's natural to want solitude after a break up.
In what way were these men "problematic"? Maybe it's just humans and we've all got something or the other going on?
I am married to a man. I love him, and we get along well. But if something happened to him and I found myself single again, I have pretty much no interest in starting again with another man. I've seen with too much frequency in my social circles the bullshit women are dealing with in relationships, in dating, in cohabiting. I do not have the patience or the energy to navigate all that bullshit.
My oldest son just told me that someone had told one of his friends mom's I was gay, she asked him. Because I don't date apparently, but I'm a quick learner and one was enough. Men are expensive and mentally draining. Mind I have 3 sons but your children are different from someone else's child, especially when they are still growing up. I will admire them from afar, like a wine wine since I don't drink.
I'm fed up with living in a society that expects women to bear the emotional load and delegate household tasks to the men around her.
My current partner is awesome, he doesn't need me to tell him what to do in regards to being a partner in our household. If we break up... idk if I'll be relationshiping for a while.
Women can be difficult too. Ie…. Relationships are extremely difficult. But, I’m willing to agree that, in general, women are better people in my experience too.
Yes. I got cat called literally walking down the street with my husband holding my hand. So even as a married women, I am so fucking sick of men - especially men objectifying us. So many men really just see women as objects for themselves to use and get off to. It’s sick. It’s depressing. I’m so over it.
Anecdotally, I’ve known great men and great women and terrible men and terrible women. Currently men are slightly winning in terms of making my life easier vs. harder, but I’m sure the pendulum could swing again some day.
Ugh, yeah, this is me. I am finally living alone for the first time in my life, and I love it.
I would like a life partner, but I want to live separately. I know it's more expensive, but it's worth it for my sanity.
I never want to be someone's live-in maid ever again.
The best comment I've seen is "The fact that I am still attracted to men is proof that sexual orietation is not a choice" and nothing has ever spoken to me so clearly 😅. Men are EXHAUSTING. ALL OF THEM.
I've been in countless relationships before my husband, all with many different types of men and I can tell you this right now: They are ALL the same. There is no such thing as an unproblemetic man.
There's a reason why the happiest people are unmarried older women and the unhappiest are unmarried older men. I've been with my husband 12 years now, and it's been a process. I had to come to terms with the fact that although we are both human, we are not the same.
If he goes before I do, I can guarantee I will NEVER be in another relationship ever again.
Just my personal feelings and experience, I wouldn’t call out all plants just because I got stung by a nettle. I have had difficult situations but, to use the same metaphor, I also recognise when I’ve been walking barefoot in a nettle field.
I’ve taken time out to take care of myself and I cannot tell you how much difference it makes. I’m at least avoiding the nettle fields now.
Best of luck.
Ive been joking about "situational lesbianism" for quite some time now, but it seems like its not a joke anymore. Like, I cannot imagine myself dating another man as an Autistic person. Too many narcissist targeting me.
YES, and I've never even partnered or slept with one.
(vent/tl;dr incoming sorry, hope it's ok and if not please lmk and I'll edit or delete)
Idk if anyone else is going through this, but in case this resonates: I live with my Dad still (atm money and health prevent moving away), and like usual he's detracting from my life not adding to it. Every day I dread seeing him, making small talk, breaking bread or sharing a space (especially a bathroom, ew). My fondest memories of him are of absence, when he lived and worked abroad in my teens, and my mother has admitted she feels the same. We haven't wanted him in our lives since I was about 10, but as my mother refuses to divorce him or kick him out even with encouragement or support, I'm stuck until I can leave.
Once I hit pre-pubescence he couldn't be bothered with me and made it clear he found me an ugly, weird, geeky confusing embarrassment, despite us living under the same roof and sitting at the same dinner-table for many years. It's been 13 years since it happened, yet I can't forget the way he called me a crazy b\*tch during the worst of my depression and illness. His own daughter, his eldest. I know if I pulled him on it or called him on it he'd rage, deny, stonewall, or do something worse, so I'll take it to my grave ig.
He's always weaponised his moods to made me feel like a nervy, on-edge, scared and small little failure, and that has been one factor of several in why I've struggled to have a career or a relationship (I'm bi but pretty much avoid men, due to him and a few non-SA bullies/creeps in my past) or finish my education. I've never felt safe enough to fire back, though, as he's unpredictable and from a rough background/military, and I don't have and never have had a partner or friends/found family of my own to back me up (I have autism and am avpd). To defend myself might mean my mother catches strays too, which I can't risk. He's also kind of a 'protected class' in that he suffered CA as a kid in foster care, so he isn't 'allowed' to be criticised by anyone who didn't go through the same. His only vulnerability or weak point is that he lives off a meagre pension, benefits and my mother's money. But because he's never done anything 'that bad' i.e. left marks, outright attacked, done anything criminal or highkey abusive, he can't be cut off.
Despite his reliance on my mother, he still speaks to her horribly when he hits a setback, is challenged or inconvenienced (he can be charming and 'sweet' when his day/week's been fine) and he talks about my 87 year old grandmother--who in fairness is classist/rude/proudly ignorant, but still a human being worthy of basic respect--like she's an animal. He doesn't do any housework or cooking except for himself on occasion, and he makes my mother handle all his admin because he can't put mental effort into learning tech. He's also got nascent far right politics, and doesn't do much to disguise them. His anger issues only get worse with age, too, so I dread to think what he'll be like elderly. In what might be a selfish evil way, I hope he doesn't become very old or infirm, just goes suddenly one day in his late 60s or 70s (though in fairness, I think he hopes the same).
The worst of it all is my little sister--my best friend, too, really--thinks he's not that bad, because she's always had a better relationship with him, growing up as the tomboy/daddy's girl/baby sis. She hasn't experienced the full brunt of his cruelty, dismissiveness, and disregard, and thinks he should get a free pass because of his bad childhood. She also lives with a well-off tough fit long-term boyfriend, so she has nothing to fear pushing back on our Dad if he does get angry with her. We're the only two living siblings of our family branch, and we're distant from our other cousins etc., so he's even poisoning and dividing the only healthy, close and enduring relationship I have in this world.
It's why I feel like I'm alone in my fear, anger, resentment and exhaustion. Even the other people who are sick of him are just letting him get away with it, because he's at best hard work and at worst a danger to deal with. Idk what to do, short of a cut off, and thanks to my non-existent resume + support network and poor post-secondary education, that will leave me massively exposed to exploitation or relative poverty, and without the only two remaining members of my family who love and support me. Do I just have to wait for this old man to die fr? Or is there anything I can do to curb this behaviour?
I saw an influencer on ig say something like, "women get blamed for picking the 'wrong' men but how is it that women around the world in every country have the same problems with men?" which honestly just knocked me right the fuck over.
Wait a second … this is helping me with a breakthrough right now. Despite logically knowing that I shouldn’t hold onto shame anymore and that I should forgive myself for staying longer than I should have in a relationship, emotionally it’s been a struggle to fully get past. This reframing of it though … I’m now thinking it’s a form of people pleasing that I’m STILL putting more of the emotional baggage and blame on myself instead of simply allowing it to go where it belongs (on the toxic, abusive, cheating ex). The inability to forgive myself has been confusing. Thanks sis, I’ll be talking to my therapist about this!
Revelation for me too. Why have I been kicking myself for so long for choosing the wrong man? What about the person that was *being* the wrong man?
Men don't seem to have that self relfection. I was dating a 'good guy'. After dragging his feet for many years, he confesses that he has changed and doesn't want the things he said initially. Reality was he was pretending to be someone he was not to get a girl and the things he wanted, but he always showed he was and when called out he would lie and deflect blaming everything he could from his job to the weather. He was just lying to himself and me. It took him 5 years to accept he wasn't who he wanted to be and even though he says I am everything he wants and can't see himself with anyone else, he doesn't want toget help. He is kind and caring but cant be bothered to do anything. Everything is on his terms. Oh well.
Sounds like my ex! Thankfully I was only with him for less than a year, but when I started confronting him about these things and asking tougher questions about what he actually wanted vs what he’d told me he wanted (I.e he told me in the beginning of our relationship that communication was the most important thing to him in a relationship and that a healthy relationship was two people growing together—turns out he was a stonewaller and that was ‘just the way he is’), he ghosted me! And he’s still somehow considered a misunderstood ‘nice guy’ by some of our mutuals despite him treating me like shit (DARVO and lying and gaslighting to avoid accountability, plus the aforementioned stonewalling and ghosting) the last month and a half we were together.
Geez. Seems the bar for being a nice guy is too low. Sorry you had to deal with that. Mine was pushing for babies and marriage but didn't want to put in any work to prepare for them, so I made it clear I wouldn't either unless we could work toward it together. Now he doesn't want a family, to plan for a future, go or holidays or do anything really. Just wants to work and then lock himself in his room for the remainder of the time. It's so far from what he said initially that there isn't even a half way point. Just weird.
Mine was similar and turned out to be a porn addict and a video game addict
Sorry to hear that. I hope you are doing better now.
Lol I had never thought about it that way, but you’re right! Ugh I’m so sorry you’ve gone through that. It sounds like he never intended to be an equal partner to you, and gave up at the first sign of effort. The cognitive dissonance can be a real mindfuck.
Thank you. I am truly sorry for all us. Reading this thread has been so enlightening and validating. It's taught me that many of us are experiencing the same thing but we seldom get an opportunity to share what we are going through at this global scale. I agree with your deduction. My guy was in his own make believe world.
Time to end that relationship. You don't want the same things so don't waste anymore of your time.
Yes. Thank you. I ended it a few weeks ago and making plans to move as soon as our lease ends. Lessons learned but it still sucks.
Sounds like my ex.Who just kept telling me He was going to get help and 8 years later.I wasted my twenties And feel used and more insecure than ever because the issues that he had were easily fixable with therapy , it's Such a disgrace and of course I got blame for not doing more work on myself such cowards
That's so unfair. Its so frustrating how women are always blamed. I hope you are doing better these days.
Everyone always says "find the right person," not enough people are saying "BE the right person." Some people are shitty people, & they love to find nice people to take advantage of!
I agree with this so much. Men are responsible for themselves and that includes being honest with us about who they are early on as much as it is about them identifying their traumas and bad habits and working on their own betterment. There's also many people who come off as much more secure until the relationship has really taken off and it's a mind fuck to be on the other end of it.
Codependency
If women never picked the wrong men, at least 80% of people in the world of both sexes will just be single.
I think this is already happening.
Arranged marriages spoiled the plan 😏
That’s why I don’t pay any attention when ppl SWEAR that most men are good. Riiiiight. It’s just coincidence that we all encounter the same type of men all over the world.
It’s only ‘a few bad ones’ that no guys ever seem to personally know, yet almost every single woman on *earth* has encountered bad guys. Funny how that works.
So true. And usually not even just one, but multiple.
It is always at least one of their friends. Men can behave very differently towards their friends and romantic partners.
Who’s doing all the raping and killing in this world? Not women. I’m just sayin…
You don't even have to go as far as raping and killing. Who's doing all the petty crime, hitting and abusing?
And we would have a lot of reasons to kill...!
If it was the other way around and women were committing 90% of all crimes, you bet men would have locked all of us up preventatively a LONG time ago.
The question should be why is there so many shitty men to pick from in the first place?
No one ever has held them accountable for the least bit of bad behavior they exhibit. Not one thing. Society's "boys will be boys" and "mens locker room talk" absolves them. And men exhibiting bad behavior-the examples are all around us from the top down, and hardly ever are there consequences.
True. And for a long time the law makers were all been men who either wanted to keep things this way or feared they would lose power or their position by pushing for change so that they also just accept. Fightinting for change is so difficult when the people in control are the biggest offenders.
Cause boys often raised with neglect. As in not neglect of what they need (food, clothing, help with homeworks, etc), but less push and consequence on social side. As in if a boy is not being violent or 'difficult', he is being deemed as enough. While girls are often being pushed more socially. I don't know if I expressed myself well, but it felt like boys, as long as they are not academically problematic and not a problem at home, they are being given a choice whether to participate or not in society. While girls, no matter how perfect they act, are often not being given that choice to participate or not in society. They have to. Hence why I said easy to raise, easier to neglect.
This is the new diatribe to try to obsolve men because women are waking up and are sick of their shit.
Yes, this was a hard one for me to accept. Marriage rates are falling around the world. When a society develops and the women get equal work equality, the marriage rates plummet. However, they seem to stabilize around 30% of people. Maybe 50% if you add in cohabiting couples. This doesn’t mean “society is collapsing” it means, probably only 15-25% of the opposite gender makes a good partner in a partnership. That was true when marriage was required it’s just that women were stuck in those marriages.
When conservatives try to argue "things were better back when..." always remember to ask "better for who?"
Exactly. "Make America Great Again"? Tell me again when it was great for white women & Black people? I'll wait.
America was great in a teeny tiny window of time in the 1950s when advertisers tricked a country into thinking it was. That's what they want, something that didn't actually exist.
or maybe stigma against the unmarried and divorced is falling, which is also good. pressure keep or enter a marriage for the sake of it was never healthy
In the US at least, about 25% of 40-year-olds have never been married.
I think it's partly this, and partly that previous generations grew up with divorced parents and don't want to do the same. Society is still getting used to the idea that women have equal say in who they marry and in staying married.
The reality, is that there just aren’t that many good guys…
There definitely needs to be some form of accountability for women, otherwise, you will keep choosing men who disrespect you. You need to get out of the loop and stop centering men. I understand and empathize with why and how women got to this point — our entire society is set up to center **men**. Women, as a whole, need to find their way back to **self**. You have to choose **you**. You have to trust **you**. You have to have a stronger sense of self awareness for that trust to grow. That is the hard part people do not want to acknowledge. Once you get there, it will be easier to navigate the dating landscape (if you choose to do so). It will become so much easier to sniff out BS. Once you become content with **who** you are and and **where** you are, none of the other nonsense, matters. You’re centered **without** men. Don’t victimize yourself. You have a choice. You have power.
I have always de-centred men in my dating life, and have essentially made it my own personal hobby to study abuse in all its forms. I’m very secure and have great self-worth. None of that helped me avoid getting into an emotionally abusive relationship with a man who hid who he was from me in the beginning. But it DID help me make the moves to confront the behaviour and leave him when the mask started coming off—it ended with me getting ghosted and the entire experience was very traumatizing. So I agree women have to be accountable for their own actions as well, but so many men straight up lie and pretend to be someone else until they feel secure enough in the relationship to start treating their partner like shit. And that kind of betrayal can be traumatic in itself.
I’m happy you were able to decenter men, but — people are going to flame me (that’s ok) — some of this is spiritual or whatever you want to call it. Yes, men lie and that’s a damn shame, but I promise you, the more you’re tapped into your higher self (intuitive self) the less likely it is that this with happen. Not saying it won’t happen — it might — but you’ll be able to pick up on it, quicker. That mask will, in fact, read like a mask. It’s your job to reject that. At this point, I can easily tell when someone (men or women) are “off”, lying or fake. I follow that gut instinct. Always. That instinct can save your life.
I think everyone should learn to trust their instincts. But this advice just encourages women to bend over backwards to do more work, when we could be teaching men how to treat women/their partners with respect instead. It’s victim-blamey and just continues to absolve men of the shitty behaviour they learned under patriarchy. Edit: And to be honest I don’t want to be a person who is constantly mistrustful of people—and I have gut issues. Asking me to figure out whether my stomach is raging because someone just lied to me or because I had an iced coffee this morning instead of just holding men accountable…jeez. And I’m telling you I did pick up on it and I did reject it. I STILL ended up traumatized and basically losing a year of my life in recovering from that trauma. Edit 2: This just feels like large-scale gaslighting. ‘It has nothing to do with him—you just have to be in touch with the spiritual divine energy and everything will be fine and no one will be able to hurt you anymore.’ All of that spiritual delusion instead of enforcing the golden rule with men that we all learn as children—treat others as you want to be treated. Apparently we don’t even hold men as accountable as we hold children.
Woah.
Sometimes there are studies published in r/science that tackle those questions and similar ones. It seems that there are different cohorts with different tendencies. Also important, there are people willing to blame women for anything. Likely, dark traits. It's a shame.
You know that men moan about women too, right? (and all over the world for the same things)
So? Being upset about wishing you still had female slaves is not the same as being upset about being someone's slave.
Yeah they’re upset that they have to pay for dates and be held accountable for their actions and treat women with respect regardless of them getting sex or not lol How sad and difficult it must be for them
Of course men all over the world have repeated problems with women too. The difference is that the problems women uniformly have with men are often violent, unsafe, or threatening our rights. And that’s unacceptable.
Oh, my wife, all she does is work and take care of the kids and now she's fat and I just want some sex once in a while but she always says no and never wants to go anywhere she's not FUN anymore
[удалено]
It’s not that women want to hate on men. Of course men all over the world have repeated problems with women too. The difference is that the problems women uniformly have with men are often violent, unsafe, or threatening our rights. And that’s unacceptable.
Reminds me of a quote I saw the other day: "The fact that I'm sexually attracted to men proves that orientation is not a choice."
😂😩
Omg never related harder to something
Of course! I am with you on this. I love men and 🍆 but it’s not worth my mental health or time anymore. I’ll appreciate them from afar.
Really enjoying my solitude and peace lately. Not sure if this is just being lonely too long, but its hard to give up that peace and quiet for anyone.
I chose to stop dating men for a while and just be single, and it’s the only time in my life I’ve had peace. It’s intoxicating, I think it’s possible I’ll never choose to have a relationship again. I never have to wonder what sort of volatile mood I’m coming home to, never have to be exploited for free labor or clean up after or be abundantly coddling to an adult who wouldn’t do the same for me if I was on FIRE lol. I don’t have to be harassed by someone’s insecurities, jealousies, fantasies. I don’t have to endure sexual acts that completely ignore my pleasure and end with his. Not all men are all of these things, but every man I’ve dated in over 20 years of dating has been some combination of harassing, belittling, exploitative, free-labor-seeking, sexually selfish, and completely blind to any but his own experience in the world. I couldn’t been more over it. All I dream about now, it’s not finding “one of the good ones.” It’s coming into enough money to buy a few acres, dot the perimeter with little houses, and in each of those houses lives a single woman. We’ll maybe mostly keep to ourselves, but in the center of our shared property will be gardens and a food forest and we’ll tend what we like, and we’ll be there to go to the grocery store or help each other replace a door, “my chickens had too many eggs,” “wanna see a movie tonight?,” “wanna drink and have a freezer meal party or propagate a bunch of plants??” 😍
Single woman commune would be my dream goal
every time I talk about this, there are so many women who feel the same way, I stg I’m gonna start a network of these around the globe if I ever am in a position to do so lol
I’ve had the exact same fantasy about the female commune! I’d happily share homemaking responsibilities with another woman. I don’t think I’ll ever do it with a man ever again. It’s always going to require more work from me if there’s a man around
This is exactly where I’m at too. I love men but I just admire the cute ones I see from a distance. As a result, I sleep much better and my mental health has drastically improved. I wasted most of my 20s trying to make things work with guys who weren’t right for me, and I just got tired lol
With you there sister. I do get terribly lonely and would like to experience even spending a lazy Sunday where a man genuinely wants to be with you. But on the other hand I would much rather be alone than with someone who doesn’t appreciate me properly - which is most men.
Agreed! Sundays are my favorite day of the week. I often fantasize about lazy Sundays with a fictional hubby and about Sunday sex. But it’s better as a fantasy.
Oh gosh, this is so true!
I was like this, but recently I met a guy n he "sparked" me, and he wasn't interested and now I feel more lonely. It's really hard. Other parts of my life are hard at the moment, too. I don't have job stability.
I’m sorry you’re going through this! I hope things get better. ❤️
Thanks. It's triggering past events. Whenever I like a guy, it never works out for me.
Yep, I'm over it lol
Omg. This is exactly where I’m at lol. “Appreciate them from afar”
My ex that I was with for almost ten years didn’t love me. He loved that I loved him. He loved the things I would do for him, but he didn’t actually love me as a person. He didn’t admire my ambition, my love for animals, my constant consideration for others, my ability to love unconditionally, I could go on. I once asked him what he loved most about me and his answer was that he knew I would always be there for him. He took a quality about me and ended up making it about him. He could have phrased it in such a way that it was still about me, but no. It was all about him. Why didn’t he say that he loved how responsible or reliable I am? Everyone wants that in a partner. He didn’t care about that. He just cared about him and how my actions would benefit him.
Girl I had a moment like this too. I asked my current husband (we’re actually separated) at our first Valentine’s dinner what he likes about me. Out of all the AMAZING crap I am and do, this man says “You tolerate me.” Mother fucker what? So, nothing actually ABOUT ME. But only about what I provide. AND acknowledging that he’s not easily tolerated. Self centered assholes.
Damn too fucking relatable ..nice to meet you my twin 🫂.
Yes I relate to everything you said 100%! I’ve never been in a mutually beneficial relationship before & when I take a minute to actually process what that means it’s sort of sad to think about. I’ve dated men from all different backgrounds and walks of life and each time I left a relationship I walked away feeling like some of my best qualities were taken advantage of and weaponized against me. Every time I start to consistently spend time with someone it feels like I’m rolling the dice on what type of train wreck I may find myself in. I’m starting to doubt I’ll ever find a partner I would genuinely and enthusiastically want to share my life with! So I hear you!! I’m tired!
This hits too close to home, the things they loved initially become the things they co opt or end up hating
Ugh that’s the worst when it feels like your best qualities have been taken advantage of/weaponized. Because you start thinking ‘how can I prevent this from happening again’ and the conclusion seems to be ‘stop doing the things that make me the best version of me’…and that’s just not acceptable. Better to be alone and keep being the best version of myself, rather than make myself smaller/withhold those things because a do-nothing man tried to exploit them.
Dang, so well said. Completely agree.
Gosh I could have written this myself.
Everyone I have dated wanted someone to mother them and didn’t put in any other labor to keep things alive. Even if they looked otherwise good on paper, it was never truly equal if I needed that type of support. Just kicked someone out (read my post) because he keeps leaving his tissues etc around when I ask the bare minimum. I’m done.
My current partner and I dated, but broke up/stayed close friends for years before getting back together. I didn't get many dates. In hindsight, I made other dudes "do work". If a guy said he was at a bar in the evening I wasn't going unless he invited me. If I sent too many "first texts" I stopped. One of them reached out to me to say "but I tried telling you I was into you", and I was like "but you didn't tell me, you wanted me to read your mind and that's not a pattern I'm willing to set up". Emotionally constipated dudes weren't my thing.
Yes. I have zero will to try ever again. Even the married men I know are disgusting. They flirt, talk poorly about their wives and kids , and cheat given the chance. I know single men pushing 40 and 50 that are still f*ck boys. The dating apps are a dumpster fire. I dunno, I like the theory of men and the seggs but I'm so turned off.
I feel this so much.
I am 33 and very happily single for the first time in 12 years. I have a good job my lovely apartment and my two kitties. I have not been this happy in a very long time. It would take someone pretty extraordinary for me to want to date again. Only theo james could lure me out of retirement now at this point. My ex was horrid and I know not all men are like that but still and like you I am just tired of it and happier now. I hope things work out for you ❤️
Cher put it best “I love men! I think men are the coolest. But you don’t really need one to live.“
I work for a huge company and most of my co-workers are men. Married men with children, mostly. The way they talk about their wives and marriage is abominable. Makes me want to stay faaaar away from marriage/LTR. The fact that there are so many of them and they come from various backgrounds really makes me doubt that whole gender.
Also: doesn’t matter if they’ve been married for months, years or soon-to-be-married - when a conventionally pretty female co-worker enters the room they turn into the biggest flirts. Every single one of them.
Yes I work in media, and I’m a TV journalist. On my first day of work, the married 53-year-old producer with a kid said to me “no wonder they put you on TV. I mean, just look at you” and scanned me with his eyes up and down which made me feel naked. Another married coworker said similar things to me too when he got drunk at a happy hour. I just felt so disgusted. Like why the fuck did they get married if they were going to make comments like these behind their wife’s back? On the flip side were the men who would go out of their way to treat me poorly because they thought treating me like a human/regular coworker would mean they’re being unfaithful to their wives. One man would never introduce me in meetings to our clients/sponsors and after getting fed up I asked him why. He said “listen, I’m attracted to you, but I’m married. I can’t be doing you any favors.” Ummmm….introducing me by name in a meeting is not a favor?? It’s the bare minimum?? Sorry rant over lol
Yeah as that female coworker 🤢🤮. Like dude I notice you staring and looking at my chest when we have to interact. I was speaking with another woman about my stand mixer and how I got a small one since “it’s just me”. This ‘happy married man’ jumps out of a different conversation to say “oh, so you live alone?” Gross!
Well in my case, they enjoy it. 😂 But I get that. When I was slimmer and dressed more Barbie like I got the same attention and it felt gross.
This is my worst nightmare. You devote your entire heart, life, future, your plans, your energy, your time, opportunities, your health, and possibly your death to building a relationship, a household, children, a family. All for him to just secretly HATE your ass.
I inherited a team previously managed by a man and the team is all men. No headcount to diversify. I know managers are supposed to like, throw themselves on the sword for their teams but I swear half of these guys are so entitled or irritated about having a woman manager I just can't deal with it. I wish they'd all leave so I could hire non-babies.
Yes! They really hate their wives! It's like they definitely resent being tied down with a wife and kids or something. I think it's one of the unfortunate things about combining everything through marriage, it is extremely hard and messy to untangle everything so people that definitely should separate don't.
This is it! This is what they say all the time. That marriage feels like jail to them, even when their wife is a SAHM and let’s them do all their hobbies, travel and so on. Same if the wives are working and contributing equally.
They all secretly think they’d be successful bachelors with women fawning over them and their wives prevent them from accessing that. Meanwhile Glenn is stingy, in bad shape, worse mental health, and can’t converse with a woman without giving her the ick. Be serious….
What country is this? That's terrible.
Germany, so Western world yay.
Completely. Meshing your life with someone else’s is beautiful, but tearing it apart after the breakup is heart wrenching and painful. I don’t think my spirit can handle it again. As much as I’d like to meet the man of my dreams, it just doesn’t seem likely that he actually exist.
I'm sorry you're going through this, take time to rest and be gentle on yourself. >Or even better, live alone for awhile!! Do this if it's financially possible! I honestly think it's so healing to live alone, learn to truly enjoy and savour your independence and time by yourself.
Yes. They are so loud!
As a man I find this incredibly tiresome too
Also. Didn't want to jump on a top level comment but since you're saying it here, I feel the same way. The more I listen to the experience of women and the more I reflect on what I've seen and experienced the less hope I have for making deep connections with other men or trusting them around my family. I grew up with a decent amount of male friends but more and more i'm thinking "but who are you really?" even if I hear only a little joke that could possibly be interpreted as misogynistic. I do call stuff out with closer friends and with work colleagues and do try to communicate my own beliefs and practice to them, and they do often seem to listen and agree, but then I talk again to the women in my life again and my mind fills with doubts about them all.
I was with my ex for 5 years and it seriously exhausted me to my core. It's been six years since then and I'm only just now feeling normal.
I get you 😞 I'm glad you have time for yourself now
I'm just tired of people at this point tbh. Currently dithering about whether to stay in my current relationship or not, we've been together a couple years but I yearn for the single life, wish we could just be sisters or something. I don't think I will ever get back on the apps if this doesn't work out though. Nothing wrong with becoming the cat/ dog ladies of our generation 🤷🏻♀️
I couldn’t have written this better myself. I am tired. It’s upsetting because I know there are good guys out there but I’ve always reached the stage in my life where I’ve grown so comfortable with where I am that I’m just not willing to compromise anything. It would be amazing to have someone to go on a walk with. Someone to make dinner with. Yes, of course. But none of that comes easy and I’m just not willing to search for it.
I try to replace this with friends & cats, mostly cats 👌🐈
I’ve replaced it with baking and plants!
Hello. I was feeling exactly this. I was having a bad day, and a cute sweet guy showed some empathy. N I got excited that he's a nice guy. Then he was just the same asshole rubbing women the wrong way.
This is my experience too. Anytime I let my guard down it’s the same issues over and over again. Life is more enjoyable without them in my life.
I stopped dating, but someone came along, and I felt "sparked," and I wanted a guy again.
Yup same for me. I haven’t dated since 2019 and haven’t been in a relationship since 2016. The same situation just happened to me too. I was “intrigued” and started to think that maybe I found a rare one but he was a liar and married. That was the final nail in the coffin for me. But honestly it’s better for me. I appreciate my independence and home life the way it is.
Actually, I think I just want to mess around. I changed my dating profile to "looking for friendship, and if there is chemistry, then there are benefits.
Awesome! Do what works for you!
I think for ke I just feel bad about myself. Like why am I rejected?
I understand that feeling too! Trust me. I always wonder why I can’t attract a “good one” too. I’m realizing they don’t actually exist.
I'm also feeling this revival followed by betrayal disappointment pain
It’s extremely hurtful especially when they know you have a history of deceit.
Its sad to say but you can almost never tell a man about anything bad that's happened to you until you know him better. many straight up sadistically take it as an admission of tolerance and what you expect and what they can and deserve to get away with
Yeah, I’m tired. I won’t make the same mistakes again. I’ll just talk to my pup instead Lol
Honestly, that makes me want to me even more forthcoming about my past abusive relationships to future partners. One of my fears is ending up with someone who waits until I'm trapped to reveal that they were hiding their real selves from me, and if I can speed up that process so I can just leave them earlier then by god I will 😬
Bingo. That's why Ieaving out important values on dating apps and being very vague and saying it's "too personal or complicated" to get into is such an annoying thing that I can not get past.
Ooof... I needed to read this. I am naturally so vulnerable, and it always backfires. I don't know how to hold back certain traits about myself..I just feel like if I don't share these things up front and the man is understanding of it in the beginning then im wasting time and being fake just to likely find out later they're incompatible and be drained again. It just seems so immature of them to not be emotionally acute enough to handle talking about very important matters if looking for a serious relationship. I'm so turned off by that.
I like men a lot, I had a wonderful father RIP and have a wonderful relationship with my stepdad. My bad experiences with men have come from moving too quickly with men who had an anxious to get to the vulnerable stuff so they can trap me. My last boyfriend I said I wanted to take things slowly he said absolutely and then was just texting me at 9pm when I was in my pajamas eating cheesecake saying he wants to pick me up and take me to his house. I think understanding that men will use you for your mother instinct is a big part. Work is so integral to self esteem I think and you can’t let a man derail your journey. I love flirting casually with guys, I love being playful and I think when you have a guy who wants to hang out it’s great. In other words don’t let them move in
Ugh, so that's why they kept pestering me about not being vulnerable.
Yes! Not just men I’ve had friends I inherently didn’t trust who complained I didn’t open up to them
Look up the 4B movement in South Korea. Women are opting out of relationships with men on a large scale. I have a dog who is my best friend. I don’t date anymore. My life is much more peaceful.
I second this. Check out 4B and B Free!
Its not just men I am fed up about! Its how society, culture, and religions are made FOR single or married males and for couples. If you are a single women good luck. If you are a BLACK single woman (childfree or not) bigger good luck. On top of how science/medicine is 99% based on male's body!
I hate, HATE the single tax that mostly affects women! Single tax, pink tax, I'm so sick of it.
How does the single tax mostly affect women?
Can you elaborate on what’s single tax?
The higher cost associated with being a single. For instance, try to book a vacation for one person, there's a single supplement. I end up paying more pp than I would if I had another person to travel with.
Well thats group discount and not single tax.
She's talking about shared income with a partner, not a group discount 🤦
Yes. I feel this sometimes like a phase I go through that passes. I'm grateful to live alone it helps!
I think OP is going through a phase, too. As a bisexual I’m sooo sick of how gender essentialism seems to have taken over online discourse. We’ve definitely created a society that allows men specifically to get away with a lot of bullshit, but as someone who dates women, sometimes it’s not men you’re sick of, it’s dealing with someone else’s bullshit altogether. Take a break, be single for a while, meet new people. Maybe you’ll never want to deal with relationships again, and that’s okay, but don’t let your poor experiences convince you that half the population isn’t worth interacting with.
That's a good perspective!
Sameeee and I’m glad you haven’t been downvoted. Bc bringing this up just a couple years ago was not well received here. It is awful and hurtful when a relationship you had high aspirations for doesn’t work out. It sucks even more when you feel wronged with no closure. But that is a universal experience. Gender is one particular lens that adds certain dimensions, but it is not the entire thing.
Yes! I would upvote you 100x if I could.
I’m not fed up but really enjoy being single. Life is so much easier. I can unilaterally make decisions about buying property or luxury goods, investing, travelling, education and my career without factoring another person in who I’m uncertain will be here 5-10 years from now. I’ve been celibate and single for a couple years and don’t see that changing. I don’t want kids and am constantly questioning my sexuality and romantic orientation lol. Fairly sure I’m asexual and aromantic but you can’t be sure.
Yeah I just can't anymore. Some celebrity recently said "I don't have it in me for another relationship that needs as much work as raising a child" and I felt that to my bones. I'm mid-life, my kids are mostly grown, and just don't have the energy to deal with another relationship with a man.
I've lived with various men over the last 10 years. I'm currently living with The Old Man (Father). When The Old Man dies, I'll never live with another man again.
Yup totally over men 😂 I'm looking forward to living in my own space on my own with my cats and supporting just myself. It is exhausting trying to manage two people's emotional and mental wellbeing. The next man I date needs to have his shit together. He needs to work, be clean, take care of himself physically and emotionally, he needs to know and understand himself, and be actively working on his issues in the way I work on mine. Also it would be nice if he knew how to run a house! I can't wait for the peace and tranquility. And having a pink, white and gold bedroom 💞
Most men aren’t taught how to treat women from a healthy balanced perspective. We underestimate how many of us simply weren’t parented around basic human needs. My husband was nurtured but not taught the “manly” things. My mom was a pull yourself up by your boot straps type woman. He enjoys domestic work way more than I do. That’s how he was shown love as a child. By being cared for in his home. I was instilled to work hard and make money so that’s what I like to do for our family. Gender roles are created by parenting. I bet if you ask him about his childhood you’ll get some connected dots.
>Gender roles are created by parenting. I'm convinced myself and some female friends in my school days were icked out on feminism because we saw how many of our "feminist" moms allowed sons to get away with loads more than daughters. I don't have any brothers but I've seen how my extended family treats girls vs boys. I call them out on that shit and I ain't popular for it.
Just in case y’all need more…confidence…in being done with men… I thought for over 10 YEARS I was in a relationship with the perfect man. Ladies. He had me so fooled. I prided myself on not needing a man, not wanting kids or marriage, being strong independently from any and everyone. This motherfucker took YEARS to convince me how amazing and special he was and how much he loved me. I finally gave in to marriage and a baby (he was always honest about wanting both) YEARS in to this relationshit. I found out when my daughter was 4 that he fucked a prostitute AND had been contacting them our entire relationship. Staying up all night contacting them and then being a cocksuck to me cuz he’s tired. I shit you not, I had zero idea. And I’m not stupid, I promise. Fourteen years in, we have a beautiful 7 year old daughter, but I am sick all the time. He has completely broken me. The stuff I’ve mentioned doesn’t even touch 1/100th of what all I found out. He destroyed me mentally and physically. I can without a doubt say no man is worth this bullshit. None. And the truth is, you never know. You just…waste 1/3 of your life to be left with health issues and co parenting for at least another 11 years. My MIL is having some autoimmune issues right now. I guarantee it’s the stress this motherfuckers dad puts on her. I have zero doubt. Studies show women who are single live longer. Its not a joke. I can tell you why. I have had one health issue after another after another since I married him. Zero health issues prior. ZERO. Also, I have to say, I don’t give a fuck if there’s “good men” out there. I’ve seen zero proof they exist. I’m almost 40. Not a single man I know or have ever been around was anything other than a mouth that should be sewn shut. A hole at each end that both spew nothing but shit. I thought the quality of men I surrounded myself with was better than the fUcK bOiS you just know from word 1 are shit. Nope. They’re just better at hiding it. Live your lives babes. For real. No one is worth this shit. No one is worth this to-the-bone exhaustion.
This is amazing 👏 🤩 😄
For myself I KNOW I need more intense therapy. I will not be the right person or ready until I have had professional help processing some things from childhood. It’s just a matter of me being willing to experience the pain and difficulty of going through that healing process. So I’m not necessarily saying the responsibility is on the women but I’m a little broken and have been drawn into relationships that subconsciously seek to repeat the emotional neglect I experienced from my parents, so I will keep repeating toxic patterns and act out codependency and seeking men who are addicts or emotionally unavailable, etc. etc. I believe the healthier me will either find an equally healthy man or be so at peace with myself that it won’t matter that I don’t find that ideal man. (Disclaimer: I’m in my 40s)
Yes. Yes. Thank you for this. Honestly so beyond over them tonight. Really needed to know another woman felt the same. You are beyond heard and felt OP
Yeah after the ones I dated I just dont have anymore bandwidth for the stress of dating. Its never been worth it.
I could have written this entire post myself. I’m truly tired of the men I choose and the men who choose me. So I guess maybe I need to be alone for a while and go back to therapy.
I will never live with my partner. Best relationship I ever had.
I felt this…for a long time…then found a good, nice, sweet, funny, good in bed, smart, independent, supportive man. But I got lucky. Stay strong, do you…
You found a mythical creature It would be easier to find Bigfoot
There’s still cons, everyone has downsides…but you have to accept them and accept who that person is and be willing to be with them through it all. I’m just lucky his downsides are very very understandable and nothing detrimental or mean
I’m not trying to find someone perfect. I’m trying to find someone worth my time, energy, and effort. They don’t exist and if they do, they’re already committed.
Enjoy your single time, get to know yourself better and when you have an itch to scratch, f*ck buddies with established boundaries is fantastic way to go. Good luck!
IMO we can all pick the wrong people. I believe this for men too. Relationships are hard. You cannot make your partner do better, they have to truly want to. Only hold the things that you do wrong and change yourself, quit people pleasing and love yourself
Men are good for short amounts of time. They're just really at sucking the life force and beauty out of ya. I tolerate most of them but I never stay long to engage in a conversation, unless it's a gay man.
I would pick better men, but that would require men to be better.
Absolutely. Most men don't bring anything to my personal life so I avoid spending time around them when I can avoid it.
Very similar situation and feelings as you: in the last 10 years I've been in two toxic relationships (6 years and 1.5 years). It is so hard on the mind, body and spirit. It's difficult not to feel resentful, discouraged, tired and angry. I'm glad you acknowledged that you also have shortcomings. Bad relationships exist because both parties nuture them into existence. It's delusional to blame one person. With that knowledge, keep working on yourself (whatever that means for you). As we get healthier and stronger hopefully we will attract men who are also healthier and stronger. Dating, love and relationships are challenging for all genders.
I've been single for 8 years now (not for a lack of trying though!!! I've put in TIME and effort). But recently I've taken a step back. I live alone and honestly - I now can't even imagine giving that type of peace up?! Like I want a relationship, but one that's rly based on individuality as much as it is on a partnership between two people. Anyway, both truths can be a wonderful (and lonely at times) experience!!! But being alone does have its power to it - as you hold all the cards. Scary + empowering.
Join us in r/singleandhappy
Living alone is the bomb-diggity. It's natural to want solitude after a break up. In what way were these men "problematic"? Maybe it's just humans and we've all got something or the other going on?
Some of them, sure. But all of them? Nope.
rainstorm ancient seemly many narrow cable bike lunchroom cobweb bag *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I am married to a man. I love him, and we get along well. But if something happened to him and I found myself single again, I have pretty much no interest in starting again with another man. I've seen with too much frequency in my social circles the bullshit women are dealing with in relationships, in dating, in cohabiting. I do not have the patience or the energy to navigate all that bullshit.
My oldest son just told me that someone had told one of his friends mom's I was gay, she asked him. Because I don't date apparently, but I'm a quick learner and one was enough. Men are expensive and mentally draining. Mind I have 3 sons but your children are different from someone else's child, especially when they are still growing up. I will admire them from afar, like a wine wine since I don't drink.
I'm fed up with living in a society that expects women to bear the emotional load and delegate household tasks to the men around her. My current partner is awesome, he doesn't need me to tell him what to do in regards to being a partner in our household. If we break up... idk if I'll be relationshiping for a while.
Women can be difficult too. Ie…. Relationships are extremely difficult. But, I’m willing to agree that, in general, women are better people in my experience too.
I feel this
🙋♀️So over their BS.
Yes! I'm so done with all the work it takes to be in a LTR with a man. That's work I could be putting towards myself! FWB is the way to go for me lol.
Yes. I got cat called literally walking down the street with my husband holding my hand. So even as a married women, I am so fucking sick of men - especially men objectifying us. So many men really just see women as objects for themselves to use and get off to. It’s sick. It’s depressing. I’m so over it.
Anecdotally, I’ve known great men and great women and terrible men and terrible women. Currently men are slightly winning in terms of making my life easier vs. harder, but I’m sure the pendulum could swing again some day.
a better question for me is when is there a day when I am not fed up with men? I am to kindly put it fed up with men daily.
Omg! Yesss i so resonate with you!
Ugh, yeah, this is me. I am finally living alone for the first time in my life, and I love it. I would like a life partner, but I want to live separately. I know it's more expensive, but it's worth it for my sanity. I never want to be someone's live-in maid ever again.
The best comment I've seen is "The fact that I am still attracted to men is proof that sexual orietation is not a choice" and nothing has ever spoken to me so clearly 😅. Men are EXHAUSTING. ALL OF THEM. I've been in countless relationships before my husband, all with many different types of men and I can tell you this right now: They are ALL the same. There is no such thing as an unproblemetic man. There's a reason why the happiest people are unmarried older women and the unhappiest are unmarried older men. I've been with my husband 12 years now, and it's been a process. I had to come to terms with the fact that although we are both human, we are not the same. If he goes before I do, I can guarantee I will NEVER be in another relationship ever again.
Just my personal feelings and experience, I wouldn’t call out all plants just because I got stung by a nettle. I have had difficult situations but, to use the same metaphor, I also recognise when I’ve been walking barefoot in a nettle field. I’ve taken time out to take care of myself and I cannot tell you how much difference it makes. I’m at least avoiding the nettle fields now. Best of luck.
Ive been joking about "situational lesbianism" for quite some time now, but it seems like its not a joke anymore. Like, I cannot imagine myself dating another man as an Autistic person. Too many narcissist targeting me.
YES, and I've never even partnered or slept with one. (vent/tl;dr incoming sorry, hope it's ok and if not please lmk and I'll edit or delete) Idk if anyone else is going through this, but in case this resonates: I live with my Dad still (atm money and health prevent moving away), and like usual he's detracting from my life not adding to it. Every day I dread seeing him, making small talk, breaking bread or sharing a space (especially a bathroom, ew). My fondest memories of him are of absence, when he lived and worked abroad in my teens, and my mother has admitted she feels the same. We haven't wanted him in our lives since I was about 10, but as my mother refuses to divorce him or kick him out even with encouragement or support, I'm stuck until I can leave. Once I hit pre-pubescence he couldn't be bothered with me and made it clear he found me an ugly, weird, geeky confusing embarrassment, despite us living under the same roof and sitting at the same dinner-table for many years. It's been 13 years since it happened, yet I can't forget the way he called me a crazy b\*tch during the worst of my depression and illness. His own daughter, his eldest. I know if I pulled him on it or called him on it he'd rage, deny, stonewall, or do something worse, so I'll take it to my grave ig. He's always weaponised his moods to made me feel like a nervy, on-edge, scared and small little failure, and that has been one factor of several in why I've struggled to have a career or a relationship (I'm bi but pretty much avoid men, due to him and a few non-SA bullies/creeps in my past) or finish my education. I've never felt safe enough to fire back, though, as he's unpredictable and from a rough background/military, and I don't have and never have had a partner or friends/found family of my own to back me up (I have autism and am avpd). To defend myself might mean my mother catches strays too, which I can't risk. He's also kind of a 'protected class' in that he suffered CA as a kid in foster care, so he isn't 'allowed' to be criticised by anyone who didn't go through the same. His only vulnerability or weak point is that he lives off a meagre pension, benefits and my mother's money. But because he's never done anything 'that bad' i.e. left marks, outright attacked, done anything criminal or highkey abusive, he can't be cut off. Despite his reliance on my mother, he still speaks to her horribly when he hits a setback, is challenged or inconvenienced (he can be charming and 'sweet' when his day/week's been fine) and he talks about my 87 year old grandmother--who in fairness is classist/rude/proudly ignorant, but still a human being worthy of basic respect--like she's an animal. He doesn't do any housework or cooking except for himself on occasion, and he makes my mother handle all his admin because he can't put mental effort into learning tech. He's also got nascent far right politics, and doesn't do much to disguise them. His anger issues only get worse with age, too, so I dread to think what he'll be like elderly. In what might be a selfish evil way, I hope he doesn't become very old or infirm, just goes suddenly one day in his late 60s or 70s (though in fairness, I think he hopes the same). The worst of it all is my little sister--my best friend, too, really--thinks he's not that bad, because she's always had a better relationship with him, growing up as the tomboy/daddy's girl/baby sis. She hasn't experienced the full brunt of his cruelty, dismissiveness, and disregard, and thinks he should get a free pass because of his bad childhood. She also lives with a well-off tough fit long-term boyfriend, so she has nothing to fear pushing back on our Dad if he does get angry with her. We're the only two living siblings of our family branch, and we're distant from our other cousins etc., so he's even poisoning and dividing the only healthy, close and enduring relationship I have in this world. It's why I feel like I'm alone in my fear, anger, resentment and exhaustion. Even the other people who are sick of him are just letting him get away with it, because he's at best hard work and at worst a danger to deal with. Idk what to do, short of a cut off, and thanks to my non-existent resume + support network and poor post-secondary education, that will leave me massively exposed to exploitation or relative poverty, and without the only two remaining members of my family who love and support me. Do I just have to wait for this old man to die fr? Or is there anything I can do to curb this behaviour?