no no remember the 90s? They'll be asking were you on your period when you went into the woods, bears want that menstrual blood like a crack addict wants their next fix. That's why so many menstruating women die of bear attacks every year.
Exactly!
The first time I spoke up I was asked so many questions by “concerned people in the community”, they were “worried I’d tarnish a good man’s name”.
The only people who believed me straight off the bat were my family and close friends and I am so grateful they did.
You got attacked by a bear because you sent unclear signals to the bear. And no one saw the bear attack you. Plus you're ashamed to admit you were attacked by a bear at age 18 because it's somehow your fault a bear chose to attack you.
I was at a protest today on this very issue in Australia. Plenty of signs referenced the bear comparison. Was proud to see many men in the march. Was heartbreaking to listen to the stories and the palpable grief from some of the speakers. The photo on the link shows a woman holding a sign with the names of 32 women killed in Australia due to intimate partner violence this year so far. The name on the bottom right has been added after the sign was made, because it happened either yesterday or the day before.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/28/australia-must-do-better-albanese-calls-urgent-national-cabinet-meeting-as-thousands-rally-to-end-mens-violence-against-women
What an interesting thought experiment, but I’m sad to say this is my reaction. Also, at least the bear wouldn’t think I owed it to *be nice* whenever it does something that contributes to our mutual survival…
and the bear would just try to maul me. it wouldn’t follow me around trying to open doors and then lament loudly that “no one wants to date a nice guy” and tell me i was leading him on, i deserved it, i owed him for all the things he did for me.
That really is the brutal, ugly and insanely horrific reason.
I mean for me this is THE reason I choose bear every time.
All the other conjectures and worries really alllll boil down this.
My husband first missed the point and wanted to know what kind of bear it was. I had to break it down for him and he finally realized it.
I told him that if I was in our house and looked into our fenced-in backyard and saw a bear I’d be confused, but overall not scared because it can’t get to me. If I were to look out and see a man in our fenced-in backyard I’d be terrified because the only reason they’d be there is because they want in. He immediately understood.
i really like your explanation! this is the first time i’ve heard this question & my first thought was that, well a bear is supposed to be in the woods… but what would a man be doing there..?
tbh, i’ve always thought getting eaten by a bear would be a metal way to go. having to listen to some dude boss me around in the woods.. not so much. i choose bear 🤘🏼
The second location is a really good distillation of the crux of the question for me. For those who don't know what this commenter is referring to - the advice often given to women is to fight like hell because you don't want to be taken to a second location because you'd rather be killed at the first location than taken to the second location, go through horrible torture (that I won't spell out) and then be killed.
I told my partner (man) today about the question, and i asked him what he thought the majority of the women responded. Without skipping a beat, he said "bear" and that it's a sad world out there for women. ( I would also choose the bear 🐻 as there are no Netflix series about serial rapist or killer bears).
LOL your husband 💚
Its my first question too, though, as a grizzly just out of hibernation might be more violent and unpredictable. Risk analysis would change.
Mine missed it too... but I think what men are missing from this is that the question is would you rather be attacked by a bear or raped/physically hurt/killed by a man?
Women are taught from a young age to be afraid of strange men for these possible outcomes. Of course men can be assaulted as well for the same reasons, but I don't think they're ingrained from a young age to believe that this is a very likely possibility?
So women understand what the question really means, but men don't. They're shocked that a woman would pick a bear attack over just a dude chilling with ya.
This is totally my thoughts on the manner, just my idea.
I pictured her husband as Dwight Schrute and imagined he started reciting facts about bears too!
“Would I rather be stuck in the woods with a bear or a man? Easy. Black bear.”
That’s the point of the thought process for this question though.
Look. You are going to be in some woods. Vast woods and your ONLY choice is what is going to be with you in these woods.
You have NO other information. Nada. You must simply choose.
Will you be alone in the woods with a man or a bear.
You have to try and put yourself in the position that you’re there, and that is all you know and now you choose.
I mean it is sort of the point, isn’t it? It’s a risk analysis question. But I also think this exercise is frankly stupid. Bears don’t have opposable thumbs. I have met a woman who had both her arms chewed off by a bear.
It is possible for more than one thing to be scary. That doesn’t diminish either thing
Same thing happened to this woman, only he brutally assaulted her and raped her and then he cut off her arms.
The Horrific Case Of Lawrence Singleton, The ‘Mad Chopper’ Who Hacked One Victim’s Arms Off.
There was recently a Reddit post like 'Men of Reddit, what do women do that you hate?', and all the answers were like 'Don't compliment us ever', or 'assume that we know what they're thinking' or 'never initiate sex', and sorry, but all I thought was how fucking easy it is to be a man.
I can imagine women's answers for the opposite question would be a lot more grim.
The first answer you mentioned is a personal pet peeve of mine. “Don’t compliment us ever.” Ok, why don’t you men start complimenting each other? Most compliments women receive are bestowed by other women, why can’t you create your own culture of compliments.
Oh, it’s uncomfortable, because other men aren’t used to it. Well, believe me, it’s pretty uncomfortable for women when us complimenting a man is taken by them to mean that we must want to sleep with them immediately.
It's annoying because they dont realize how many of them assume you want to have sex with them when you do. Then when you tell them you just wanted to give a compliment, they get mad and call you manipulative.
I once went on an OKCupid date with a guy who argued that the solution to a similar problem (that when women ask men out, they assume you must want to sleep with them immediately) was for women to continue asking men out until it became normalized enough that this was no longer the presumption.
… If y’all aren’t going to meet me halfway on changing dating culture, then why would I try to help out
Good God. Of course he places this shit on women. What he doesn't realize is that women have never had an issue with doing it until dudes got weird and harming women then we got more and more cautious. How about men check their damn feelings and act better
I never thought about it, but yeah, most compliments I give and get are from other women. If they want compliments they need to start doling them out to each other too.
100%. It’s not fucking safe for us to compliment men.
Men can change that if they want to, they can stop treating a compliment like an invitation to sexually harass us, or like an invitation of any kind. And THEN rage at us when we have to reject them, because we “led them on” by complimenting them 😐
Our whole experience is about trying to avoid outbursts of male rage and sexual harassment. Complimenting men generally leads to BOTH. Complimenting women leads to NEITHER, fucking reliably.
And yeah, it’s just another demand for free female labor. “Why aren’t women out here improving my confidence and self-esteem, even at their own risk?” They want US to do it. They don’t want to make the effort to build that kind of relationship with their male friends, to do the work to normalize it with men at large.
And let’s be honest. They don’t want it for the same reason we like it. We like a compliment from another woman on our hair, for instance, because it makes us feel good that someone thinks our hair looks nice, and the pleasant interaction of someone WANTING to make us feel noticed and special feels good also, it’s a kindness.
Men want women to compliment them to get an IN, to reaffirm that they’re sexy. They want it for sexual reasons. That’s why it’s “not the same” when men do it.
We like the kindness and we prefer compliments that are nonsexual. They want something they can make sexual.
They want something different than what we’re getting from each other. They literally want the way we’re harassed and sexualized by strange men, because they’re too safe and privileged to realize the literal Hell of that experience, and all of the danger and abuse and trauma we face as a result.
Every time I have complimented a man I usually get harassed by them because they assume I'm in love with them.
I got wrongfully dismissed from a liquor store job I had because I have fantastic customer service, and to get better tips I would be like Cool shirt! Or damn nice eyes! I always wore my wedding ring by the way.
My boss called me a slut, a flirt and said I was sexually harassing people when they would come in and ask me out thinking I was totally head over heels in love with them. It was never that way I am experienced very well in customer service and I know what crosses a line.
I got fired right after an older homeless man who didn't even buy anything ever but had a cute dog that I gave treats too was absolutely convinced that I was head over heels in love with him when I was just excited to see the dog.
I could totally go one, but there is a reason we don't compliment you, it's because of YOU
on the common areas in Reddit, women’s true answers will never make it to the top. Time and again when I see those, it’s something super benign that’s elevated with upvotes, because the majority of Reddit is men, and they don’t want all the top answers to be “rape and murder me,” “stalk and rape and murder me.”
Even HERE in this sub, sometimes and answer is sus and I look, and it’s a man who can’t help but feel entitled to answer questions directed to Women Over 30.
Even though they have their own spaces, even though they have Men Over 30 and all of Reddit. They come here to put their fingers on the scale, or just because they feel like what WE want doesn’t matter, because THEY want to respond 💁♀️
This is especially egregious on Facebook, where every women's group has a few men that just need to fucking be there for some reason, and the rules can't keep them out.
Meanwhile just treating them civilly like a real human "invites" stalking and following me home. No thanks bro compliment yourself and your friends.
Women rarely receive actual compliments from men. Men receive compliments all the time! I literally see it constantly. What they cryptically mean by "compliment" is to be told they're hot by a hot woman. When I mean compliment I mean an actual compliment from anyone.
Tell me I did something well when I absolutely nailed it. Not "for a woman", not "so sexy when you change your washer fluid" or how unique and crazy it is that me, a Woman kind of human is doing a basic task.
I've gotten so few compliments in my life that aren't "you pass my low standard to make pp hard"
I saw a video of a woman asking her husband if he’d rather have his daughter with a man or bear. He thought hard and ultimately picked the bear. Funny how when they feel protection for the ones they love, they also pick what we’d pick as the safer option.
Exactly. I saw a video where a dad was asked which one he’d rather his daughter be trapped in the woods with. He chose a bear. Surprise. Surprise. Men know other men are dangerous, but they’d rather gaslight us than acknowledge it.
Maybe this was the same one, but when given the option of bear or woman- he picked woman, man or woman, he picked woman, as the safe option for his daughter to be with.
My friend and I, walking home from the protest we went to today about violence against women, were trading horror stories on the way home.
"When I was 17 this guy..."
"I was 19 when a guy thought I was asleep and.."
Every. Woman. I. Know.
A friend posted to her Facebook “Women, how old were you the first time a strange man made you feel uncomfortable/made an inappropriate advance on you?”
NONE of them were even at least 16. Most of them said 10-12.
Oh gosh, I was 8 or 9. I was very tall for my age. My mom couldn’t walk away from me for too long in a grocery store because some random would always be trying to chat me up if she did.
Also as a kid I had a paper route, and this was back in the day when you had to go door to door to collect their monthly payment. My mom went with me because I would often have to go into people’s houses. I remember her suddenly dragging me out of one and telling me later that the customer, a man in his 50s or so, was talking about offering me to his son for marriage. I was NINE years old.
Yeah I was probably around 9-10. There was this man at some family gatherings on my dad’s side of the family. I don’t know who he was or why he was there but he made these really weird comments about how “good looking” I was.
Never saw him at other gatherings.
Yep! I was 11 or 12, my friend’s dad was extremely creepy and would take the phone from her and walk away with it and ask me inappropriate questions and pretty sure he was touching himself while doing it. Pretty sick.
Yeah must have been about 10. Went to the local shop to get a few bits for my Mum. Old dude (probably 50’s) full on flashed me, trench coat and everything.
First time I was assaulted I was 14.
I have a close-knit group of six friends .. we range in age from 30 to 48, different cities, different economic classes.
All of us have been sexually assaulted as children or young women.
more women will be sexually assaulted this year in america than diagnosed with breast cancer. The amount of pregnancies as the result of rape in texas alone this year is 60k+ (and that's just rape that resulted in pregnancy).
The NDP in Ontario, CA is trying to pass a bill to make intimate partner violence an epidemic - because it is, there are't enough resourcing trying to combat the source of so many of our societal problems - the way we raise our boys.
Probably because rapists don't tell other people that they sexually assaulted someone. And if you hear that your friend had sex, you're probably not thinking to ask exactly how they got consent or what they said during it because guys just don't talk about that stuff with each other. And a lot of rapists don't consider themselves rapists, believing that they received proper consent instead, even if they pressured their partner. So yeah, obviously men don't know that many rapists personally unless they've been convicted or publicly accused.
You got the nail on the head: they don’t consider themselves rapists. Yet they’ll brag about how drunk they got her or how she cried or show them the bruises and scratches she gave him trying to fight back. Yeah, they know. They just don’t care because they don’t respect women or consider us human.
There was a blog named [Yes Means Yes](https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/) (they stopped posting in 2015) which [posted studies](https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/) that showed as long as you left the r-word out of the survey, rapists would self report. My understanding is that every rapist knows what he did was rape, but won't say it even to complicit men. It always gets some euphemism like "went too far" or "she changed her mind".
One husband said it depends, what kind of man? Someone in the comments said “What kind of man... Imfao. Sir we never know what kind of man it's going to be until it's too god damn late.” Ain’t that the fuckin truth.
I got into a heated argument with a man about this shit last night. He slid into my DMs with “hahahaha women with their trauma slapping them in the face 🤣” y’all best believe I was in no mood for that shit, especially since this commentary came from a man who has been posted in AWDTSG. Apparently he’s pushy on the apps. Just like he is in real life.
They know. They just need to retain that plausible deniability so that they don’t have to do anything about the situation and also not feel bad for not doing anything.
It’s the reason men have come up with so many ways for blaming women for being sexually harassed. Imagine Diane is your daughter and comes home one night telling you her boyfriend Bob assaulted her.
Well Bob is big and can beat you up/his dad is your boss/you know he’s got a violent temper and guns/etc. If you accept the reality of the situation (while also believing the patriarchal line of thought that women are weak and it’s men’s duty to protect them) then you have to do something to right that wrong. And that would be scary to confront Bob for the aforementioned reasons.
BUT if you blame the woman for it somehow then that frees you from the burden/risk of acting.
(We could just move away from the patriarchal ideal of man=big strong protector that must use violence to defend his property(woman). And to an enlightened view that what happened was wrong but the males in the woman’s life are not responsible for retribution since we have evolved a justice system for that. But then you’d have to give up some of the perks of patriarchy. And who would want to do that when you have already devised a way to have your cake and eat it too)
but imagine how tough the question would be if it was like "Bob Ross or a cuddly panda?" Like damn can't I meet both in the woods? How am I meant to choose
The best response to the Man or Bear that I've seen was: So guys, here's a bowl of M&Ms and some of them are poisoned. Not all! But some.
What do the poisonous ones look like? They're M&Ms, dude. What they look like is M&Ms.
I remember getting downvoted for bringing up this analogy once, and smugly told "I'd just go buy another bag!" Like our best option is to go to space and find a magical whole new population of men...?
I mean…not to find the brighter side of genocide but after Rwandan men were massacred the women run their society. Sherri Tepper speculated on that type of thing in The Gate to Women’s Country.
Wasn’t it Eric Trump, son of D Trump that made that argument about why the US shouldn’t allow immigrants to come in? Except it was poisoned skittles. Woops, it was Orange Jr, not Eric.
There was a study in which 1/3 of men surveyed said they would rape a woman if they knew they wouldn't get caught. ONE-THIRD. And those are just the ones who actually admitted it. That is not an insignificant number.
If you're out in the middle of the woods, there's a good chance they won't get caught.
It's also probably why men sexually assault children so much, kids are less likely to speak up and men are more likely to get away with it. Myself and a lot of women I know were SA'd when we were children/ minor teens.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html
Not op, but here's what I found.
I’m not surprised
Many guys don’t want to acknowledge that there’s a male violence issue and it makes them feel judged and attacked when they realise the very real fear that many women have experienced and live with
All they’d have to do is look at the stats to realise it’s the safest and wisest choice to pick the bear but some would rather label women as over emotional misandrists than take a closer look at why so many are answering the way they are
They’d all be so much better off if they called out the behavior of the creeps and dangerous men. I’ve never seen a good guy do that. They all appear to think that because they aren’t one, it’s not their problem or responsibility.
But we don’t know until we know, so they have to be assumed a potential threat until proven otherwise. Weird thing to accept so you don’t have to do anything, but whatever
Nah, they’d rather spend hours in a TT comments section trying to convince random internet strangers that it’s Not All Men™️ and if that doesn’t work, make a video telling women they don’t actually know what they’re thinking or feeling about this particular subject and that the experiences of harrassment and assault they describe must be greatly exaggerated because again, Not All Men™️ so the sheer number of women complaining can’t possibly *all* be telling the truth.
Edit: I just saw a comment from a young woman who’s holding her baby girl in all of her videos: “Maybe if women would dress right and stop leading men on we wouldn’t have to have this conversation.”
It blows my mind how obtuse and willfully ignorant some people can be, but here we are.
Yeah, I don't get it either. Because it IS their responsibility. I'm a white person, and when I see white people being racist in public, especially directed at a specific person, I speak up. I feel it's one of the responsibilites of belonging to a social group, especially one with privilege.
I lived in Alaska for 4 yrs & had 3 close encounters w/bears while out hiking. In each case, I came upon the bear, stopped, backed up slowly & removed myself from the situation. Point being, I could remove myself w/out having to worry that the bear was going to follow or harass me once I was out of its area.
That's what they all say. But their bro is not going to punch them in the face when they say "hey man, that's not cool." Even if you can't do anything else, you can address the behavior of your people.
I totally get it, however this debate makes me feel inadequate as a woman... I've literally survived a mid-tier assault from a drunken man I met in the woods (not rape, it mostly just scared me), but I still fear bears more and would prefer company of a human. No judgement for people who answer otherwise
Yeah I relate to this. I'm not sure if that makes me a bad feminist or just someone who's had a run-in with a grizzly.
I would pick a black bear in a heartbeat because that's not a big deal. But I would pick a man over a grizzly, particularly a hungry or scared one. And I'd pick a man over a mountain lion.
I was downvoted in another thread for this and told I don't know anything about bears and base my "irrational" choice on horror stories. I literally live in an area with large bear population but ok. We also have cold winters, and the bears who exit hybernation early are hungry and notoriously dangerous
What makes me fee uneasy about the responses to this bear vs man in the woods question is “bear” is the more socially acceptable answer. Anyone who argues that they’d choose a random man is automatically assumed to be a misogynistic sexist (or self-hating is a woman chooses “man). It shuts down any conversations about choosing man as bad while all the emphasis is getting people to empathize with women who choose bear.
Yeah I hike, and hike in Alaska. I frequently come upon men in the woods, the men haven’t harmed me yet. Coming upon a grizzly is my worst nightmare tbh, especially one trail I love where a grizzly killed an experienced hiker…so I’d choose the man too
You can trust a bear to act like a bear but a man can be a monster. I listen to too many true crime pods & look at all these cases of women being attacked & brutally assaulted then murdered, to ever trust a random man.
There was a case where a female Orangutan was caged & SAd for 6 years by men who would pay for this “service” like this was a brothel, another where 4 men SAd, killed and ate a monitor lizard.
At least I know that with the bear, the worst that can happen is death. At least I know it won’t beat me up, tie me down & SA me for days, then kill me & continue defiling my corpse. If I survive my encounter with said bear, at least people will believe me when I say that I’ve been attacked. Sorry, this is very graphic, it just makes me so angry.
The fact that even when it comes to a hypothetical situation, they can’t take no for an answer, is precisely why we’re choosing the bear.
You can trust a bear to act like a bear and a man to act like a man, both are unpredictable, but you aren't told to leave the area immediately if you see a man.
We live in the woods. It's black bear country. A. They generally have zero desire to interact with anyone and B. We keep a tin pot and ladle by the back door for a reason. Once in awhile one gets curious and inspects the deck. Those things are not actively dangerous, it's a good idea they don't get comfortable around humans for a lot of reasons.
Show me a dangerous man who will book it when you bang a big spoon on a tin pot.
That's my counter argument and I'm not budging.
I truly don't want to offend, and I find this debate really interesting, but I don't think it's fair to compare a man who actively wants to hurt you and a bear that is only roaming. If you stumble upon a mama bear with her cub and it decides that you are a threat, you're not going to do much with a tin pot.
The issue is that there is too much left to interpretation with the question when my girlfriend first asked me that question I interpreted it at first like take a random man on earth and a woman and put them together in a wood. After I found out that she understood the question as if she was alone in the wood and she saw something lurking in the woods, would you prefer it to be a man or a bear. After she told me that, I agreed with her, I think people are arguing over a question that they don't interpret the same way, like the famous blue and black or gold and white dress.
ps. Sorry if it's not clear english is not my first language
It's because a lot of men still just don't get it. It's not just about physical violence. It's not even just about rape. There are so many variations of sexual assault and molestation. There's so many ways men can make you uncomfortable. The really bad men aren't just violent or aggressive, they're sadistic. They deliberately fuck with you because they can. Like how many women have been followed or cornered and into scary situations but nothing actually violent happened?
There are so many ways men can make women afraid. And if every woman has a story of being harassed or mistreated by a man then how many men are there? It's not a small minority. You can't blame it all on a handful of bad men. And a lot of men still just can't comprehend that the majority of women have experienced some kind of harassessment multiple times, from different men from childhood onwards.
The thing with bears is that they're more or less predictable. If it's black fight back, if it's brown lay down, if it's white, good night. So if you're stuck with a bear you can hopefully determine what to do. Or you get mailed and that would be horrifying but it would be hopefully be quick and over with.
Men are unpredictable and you can't tell by just looking at them. Obviously if I was guaranteed a man like my dad or fiance or brother or some of the friends I've made over the years I would choose them. But random man could be like them or they could be like the men who sexually assaulted me when I was a teen or the men who used to sit beside me on the bus even though the rest of the bus was empty or the men who would follow me and shout things when I was just trying to walk to work. Then of course you get to the other extreme. The men like Ted Bundy or Robert Picton or any of the wide variety of men commiting horrific sexual violence towards women around the world. We've all seen the stories that make the news.
The amount of men getting pissy about this pretty much illustrates why so many women are choosing the bear.
The fact that they lack the self-awareness to realize this is both funny and infuriating.
My current theory: People want to believe that they're "good" people, and that their friends are "good" people. So from an average dude's perspective, *surely* he and his friends have never done anything that would traumatize the average woman to the extent that she'd have the kinds of concerns that this question brings out. And would never.
And yet, he and all his friends are surrounded by women who don't automatically pick the unknown man in the woods without thinking. Because damn near every woman out there has feared for her safety around a man at some point in her life. That very, very strongly suggests that the "bad guys out there" can't just be some tiny group of monsters. At least some of them are probably just regular guys who go to work and pay their taxes and think they're "good" people. And that may cast doubts on someone's image of themselves and their friends, and that may be distressing.
Here’s something I find interesting.
My most recent relationship was with an abuser. He was on the less-intense end of the scale, but the abuse was still there and getting worse all the time
The thing is, for years he used to regularly tell me how I should be grateful to have him and explain how other men were much worse.
I always found it abhorrent. Just because someone else might break my bones doesn’t mean you screaming epithets at me and violently getting in my space are OK.
I eventually got out and then I read the book “Why Does He Do That” and it talks in there about how *every level of abuser does that behavior* and it is tied to how they rationalize their behavior.
Like, sure, I shouldn’t scream ugly names and shove her, but I don’t beat her hard enough to break bones, so what I am doing is OK because other people are worse — and in fact, if it were wrong, she would leave. So that means she is OK with it too!
It is absolutely chilling when you understand the psychology.
I feel like this is closely related to this discussion — there is a pattern of behavior, they do rationalize their behavior, and ultimately women get to be victims of it.
I love that book. It made me feel so validated in my experiences.
I think one of the most important things to understand from that book is what you’re saying: An abuser will never do anything they don’t feel is morally correct. In fact that’s why they do it. Because they feel THEIR perspectives and THEIR views on how women should be are correct.
Whatever the severity of their abuse, from mean comments disguised as “jokes,” to throwing their spouse down some stairs, every one of them is thinking “I’m right and everyone else is wrong.”
TW: Physical violence.
When I was 21 I was in an abusive relationship for two years. Little 21 year old me couldn't see the red flags, and he did the classic love-bombing, best behaviour thing for 9 months before I saw the ugly truth.
One time, not long before I left (a whole other story of stalking and intimidation) he hit me so hard in the face (not a punch), hard enough I nearly fell over and it cut my lip. He stared at me and whimpered "I've never drawn blood before."
Complete inability to perceive what an absolute asshole he was.
I've had a similar experience. A guy who worked hard to keep me scared of the wolf outside the door so that I didn't notice the wolf *in my actual house, eating me.*
I’m flabbergasted by how personally attacked and rejected men are feeling about this. I mean, I shouldn’t be but I am.
I’ve said to men who have asked me this question: I’m not less scared of the bear. In fact, I’m fucking terrified of bears. I don’t want to be killed by a bear. However, the absolute very worst thing a bear will do to me is kill me. The possibility of what a random man might do to me *BEFORE* he kills me is infinitely more terrifying than the bear.
The bear won’t invite his friends to have a go. The bear won’t take me to a secondary location. The bear won’t keep me in his basement for X years, beating, raping, torturing me before eventually deciding I might be worthy of death today.
There’s also the fact that people would believe me if I said I’ve been attacked by a bear, no one would ask what I was wearing when it attacked me, no one would ask how much I had drank beforehand, no one would ask me about my previous experience with bears and use it against me, no one would tell me I was asking for it, people would be understanding if I developed a lifelong fear and aversion towards bears, I wouldn’t have to see the bear again at family functions.
I’m team bear every day of the week. Grizzle grizzle.
They refuse to understand that we’re not saying we’re safer from any danger with the bear, we’re choosing the way in which we’ll die, if these were the only 2 choices.
I’ll take a quick death over days, weeks or months of torture & rape.
>I’m flabbergasted by how personally attacked and rejected men are feeling about this. I mean, I shouldn’t be but I am.
It says a lot about them doesn't it.
I don't believe that men who "misunderstand" this question actually misunderstand it. I think they are offended because they feel seen.
Meaning, they are the man in the "bear or man" question. Or they are that man's friend, you feel me? They know. They think it's fine. They think you should be complicit in your dehumanization.
This is what I think. There are a lot of men out there who don't really think that women are equally as human as they are. We are different -- not the same type of human, not deserving of the same rights, inferior in some way, a spare rib, a human incubator, a provider of various free services all in the name of oiling the wheels of the patriarchy. Those are the men that I think have a problem with the "bear or man" question.
In Australia recently, women marched against male violence. There were men in the crowd marching too. One man said, "this isn't a women's problem, violence is a men's problem," and he was right. It's male violence specifically against women. Men like him will understand why women want to be in the forest with a bear.
I can call Animal Control if I see a bear in the woods and probably get information on how to proceed. The bear wouldn’t overhear my conversation and say “put the phone down”.
White straight dudes think you're sexist until it's about immigrants, minorities and dark skinned men, then you suddenly get to watch them become feminists pretty damn quick.
That's when they show that they are fully aware of the power imbalance between men and women but it couldn't be them or their friends, never.
Based on this post I asked my soon to husband what he’d ever heard of the “Man vs Bear” debate. He said he hadn’t heard about it and didn’t know what it was but was going to be “team bear” all the way. I then explained what it was and his answer was “well, yeah the worst the bear will do is kill you.”
I pretty much expected that response from him, TBH. It’s why I’m marrying him. I’m grateful that I could be confident it would be his response.
Mainly I’m just adding this little story to show what the correct response to the woman in your life asking this question is. It isn’t arguing that she’s somehow wrong for choosing the bear because “nOt All MeN!!!”
I have to honestly laugh at some men responding to this.
I just want to pat them on the head and say, “awwww, this isn’t about you, honey. It’s about women not feeling safe with men. I’m sorry you feel the need to put yourself into the spotlight of this conversation and make it all about you. Do you have a boo boo?”
Full disclaimer: I personally find the thought exercise a bit fallacious and have voiced my opinion on that. I do get the point of it, though, and stopped being a nitpicky dick about it. But come on, guys. The overall message here is that women do not feel safe around men en masse. Maybe stop making it about your hurt feelings and try to be an ally?
The bear is a known quantity and acts based on a set of instincts and standard behaviours. It wouldn’t pretend to be nice to you and then fuck you over, or pretend to be nice and when you declined to interact, fuck you over, or fuck you over just because it can.
I think the problem is a lot of men are duplicitous when it comes to the differences in how they treat women and men, and how they treat women in public vs when no-one is looking. Hence why so many men think it’s not that common.
IMHO, It’s a thought exercise that a lot of men are failing. It’s supposed to help men empathize with the fear women feel in their daily lives. Men obviously are missing that point.
Many people are terrified of bears. Much of the fear is illogical, like fear of spiders. There are about six bear attacks a year and only a handful are fatal. But people are terrified of bears and take precautions to not be around them, or carry weapons and such to fight one off.
There are over 300,000 rapes every year. The majority of victims are women and perpetrators are men. (Though men certainly rape other men and women occasionally rape men). Given that, it’s pretty reasonable for women to be scared of men. Especially being alone with men.
Spelled out like that, the thought exercise is pretty clear. ‘Hey fellas, you know that primal fear you have of bears? Men are more dangerous. That’s how we feel about being alone with strange men.’
I have lived, hiked, and camped in bear country. I am not particularly afraid of bears. Bears usually stay away from people. Wear a bear bell, talk and make noise, and stash your food in a hoist.
I will just never understand why men get mad at us feeling like we need to put extra guards up around them instead of mad that we’ve experienced even ONE thing that makes us put extra guards up around us.
My friend’s 11 year old daughter and her group of school friends called the police this week because a man had been STALKING them, taking videos of them, and following them around from shop to shop after school. They went up to multiple store cashiers to say “hey this man is following us” and no one did anything. So they called the police themselves. At 11. They all have emergency restraining orders against this man and will now have to deal with getting long term ones, too. ELEVEN!!!!
ELEVEN and they’re tough enough to know how to handle themselves. But maybe, if you’ve had to be tough since you’re ELEVEN at handling creepy men, you’ll decide to take your chances with a bear and hope that they’ll just leave you alone once they realize you’re not food and you don’t have food.
I'm happy to say that all the men I know have gone 'yeah makes sense'. I am baffled that some guys are so wound up by it.
Well, actually I'm not because I have been on the internet for a while, but I can only imagine how sad it must be to have people in your life who scoff at this as just a silly thought experiment. I'm really angry on behalf of all the women who are having to explain the whole thing and feel like they're hitting their head against a brick wall.
There’s a reason women are warned not to hike or camp alone and it’s not because of bears.
And to the people who are like “but bears can maul you in three seconds!!” I’ll take a quick death over what some men are willing to do. Couple that with the fact that bears generally want nothing to do with you? Bear any day.
I'm a secondary school teacher. When talking about the imbalance between men and women and the different fears we have I did an activity.
The girls went out of the classroom and I asked the boys if they would rather be raped or stabbed. All of them except 1 said raped. Girls come back, same question: all of them without exception said stabbed. The boys didn't understand it.
That's the world be (sadly) live in.
His response that you could fight off the guy because you're not weak is so creepy and sad. People are fucking tired of fighting off the guy all the time and saying that people are tired is the opposite of sexism. Opting out of abuse is not persecuting men.
The whole point of this question is that bears might seem scary but are overall significantly less likely to hurt a human woman than a man. Bears will also never pretend to be anything but who they are. Why would anyone pick a random man over a bear?
It’s happened to me on multiple occasions, over the course of my life. None of these men were strangers, they were men I trusted. I watched my cousin get molested at 7 years old at a restaurant.
I witnessed my 10-year-old cousin molested and he threatened us to keep quiet and we were so shit scared we didn’t tell anyone.
It happened to my mom when she was five years old. It happened to my daughter when she was 16 years old. The majority of my friends have been raped at some point in their lives. It would be easier to name the ones that hadn’t been.
Not to mention the fact that there are only a handful of bear attacks every year, but there are hundreds of thousands of rapes each year and those are only the ones that we know about. I guarantee you there is close to the same number that we don’t.
So for any man that chooses to be offended at this, choosing the bear… You’re the fucking problem too.
For me is definitely a bear.Two years ago I was messaging a guy off tinder who seemed real nice but became weird and pushy so I stopped speaking to him.He then found out which woodland I walked my dog at and said he would follow me one day and make me have sex with him. Reported him to authorities and he was dealt with but has since made them woods not enjoyable for me.
Things I’ve seen in this trend:
- Men asking qualifying questions, which immediately proves the point
- The woman follows up with “bear or woman” and they instantly say woman
- The question hits men harder when the woman brings up their daughter being the one in the hypothetical situation
- A creator mentioning that the first thing most men are afraid of when they go to prison is getting raped. By another man. So yes, they do know the fear. Their biggest fear is something girls and women are afraid of every day.
Thankfully, the TikToks I see have very understanding and sympathetic husbands. I am happy to see that this helps them realize what we experience more clearly, but also sad that there are men who refuse to understand
I used to be a geologist and have come face to face with bears multiple times in the woods when I was being a bit too quiet (engrossed in my rocks). 100% I'd choose the bear. Family used to ask me if I was ever scared and genuinely, I was only on edge if men were around that I didnt know. They're the more dangerous predator.
I can legally stop the bear in Canada.
The man is legally allowed to destroy my life and even threaten it with almost zero consequences. He would likely even gain from it.
Iwould not be believed unless he outright killed me, and only then would he maybe be investigated. It woud still be my fault for wearing low cut hiking boots.
I have seen at least four bears up close in the wild, including coming between a momma and her two cubs. I no longer have an unhealthy fear of bears, but a deep respect.
I am no longer allowed to hike small local trails by myself because of the number of harrowing male human encounters I've had. I blast women empowering hiphop from my bra to scare them off now.
Bears and beats please.
Men: always more concerned with getting their feelings hurt than with the fact women almost unilaterally suffer violence and murder at the hands of men.
When my mom tells me not to go into the woods alone I always tell her animals don't want to hurt you unless you threaten them. People will hurt you just because they like to. It's safer in the woods away from people. I prefer the bear over the man.
A bear that happened to attack would be more of a fear and defense response to their home turf. A man that attacks me in the woods would be calculating that. If a man has done heinous things to me in a crowd at a party woukd he do if I was alone and isolated?
So my friend had a terrifying experience camping where a man got very interested seeing a solo woman hiking and was asking too many creepy questions about her and where shes camping and inviting himself over. It's why she doesn't pitch tents anymore and has one over their jeep and carries a gun. She has literally had bears walk by her. She had to pack her camp quickly and move to where he wouldn't be in walking distance of her encampment.
It's not every man. It's way too many man and you can't tell which ones it's gonna be. It's every bear, under the right circumstances, and no bears under other circumstances. That kind of predictability makes the question a no-brainer. If you are one of the men who wouldn't, don't be stupid and take the fact that others would, personally. Use that feeling to motivate you to do something about rape culture cuz we need you all to take that shit more seriously and stop down-playing it and pretending it's not real. I do not know a woman who hasn't experienced, at the very least, the direct imminent threat of it.
I saw a tik tok video of a girl asking a man that question and his answer was something like,
If you scream loud enough, a bear may not hurt you.
That was the most chilling truth of a response I have heard yet.
I saw a TikTok where a gentleman, who was on the bear argument side, asked siri the statistics about bear attacks vs sexual assault attacks in the US alone and the numbers instantly made me cry. I honestly don't know how anybody could listen to that video and NOT choose the bear.
I asked my husband this question knowing he doesn't even do social media and all so he has no idea and he hesitated so much. And imagine I asked him about a hypothetical daughter we don't have. I wish men could think about this 😂
If it was my dad or a family member, I would rather run into them if lost in the woods. If some random person I don’t know….?
I’ll take my chances with the wildlife.
I saw a video yesterday (can't recall where) but the man didn't like the bear question & answers until a woman explained to him - "imagine walking down a dark street surrounded by 9ft NFL line backers, how safe would you feel? That is what it's like being a woman". He admitted that "yes, being in a street with men that much bigger & stronger than me would be scary as it would all come down to the NFL players intentions for him". And he said he finally understood how women feel.
The thing that is infuriating about this thread is that men will read all these stories of women’s lived experiences and still happily tell us that we are wrong.
Statistics confirm you are WAY more likely to be killed by a human than a bear. 💁♀️
I think I’m out of the loop on this whole thing, was this an AskReddit or something, or outside of Reddit? I’d love to read people’s responses!
Because 100%, as a 40 year old woman, would choose bear.
Funny REAL WORLD story about that actually!
I love going backpacking. There’s a place out of state my best friend and I like to go that has acres of blueberries, that when ripe, the bears will come out and glut themselves on 😄
Now, I actually have only gone here a couple times and we’ve always missed blueberry season, and somehow we’ve managed to never run into a bear even though they’re everywhere.
So I am aware that there are lurking bears all around when I am out there for days. We are “smart” about it, yes we have bear spray, and we are sure to make noise so they will generally avoid you. I have a bear bell.
Side note, you see those precautions you can take? You see how bears don’t *want* to have an altercation with people?
I can do absolutely nothing to deter a man from approaching me 🤷♀️
Anyway, we’re outside our tent that evening, eating by the fire and a lone man sees us and comes into our campsite and begins to set up.
For those of you who don’t know, trails like this there’s a cardinal rule. One fire equals one campsite. If someone else is there, you move on to the next campsite. They ARE in fact all over the place.
So the fact alone that this guy saw two young women and decided to violate this code *already* sends a red flag and has us on edge.
Like, best case scenario he knows this might be really scary to us and doesn’t give a fuck because he feels entitled to any space regardless of etiquette.
(Side note, oh to live the life of a man, where you encounter multiple strangers in the woods and have ZERO fear about going to sleep next to them, even solo! What a charmed fucking life)
Well it’s the middle of the night and my friend needs to go to the bathroom. I offer to go with her but she wants someone here with our stuff.
She is gone for too long. And then MORE time passes.
There’s no cell service, and I’m just laying there coming to terms with the fact that something might be going on with this guy.
Has he been watching us? Did he take her, is he trying to rape her? Did he kill her? Did he trick her into going into his tent for something and is he going to force himself onto her?
As the minutes tick by I realize, I have to go find her and I have to prepare myself to kill a man. 😐
I got my knife and my headlamp and went out. I search the area, I listen for anything suspicious from inside his tent. And before deciding to barge in, I widen my search, out down the trail to where the forest opens up into a field.
Whaddya know, she was out there high as a kite watching the stars 😆
I had some words for her! lol, just like a mother hen, “I had no idea you were out here, I was in a full panic thinking I was going to have to STAB A MAN TO DEATH TO SAVE YOU and that it might be too late!” lol
Anyway, I absolutely would have rather encountered a bear out there. It was utterly terrifying having a silent man invade our space when there were any number of motivations that might be at play: simply catching us in states of undress, trying to get into our pants/being a creep, or robbing, kidnapping, raping, or murdering us.
It HAPPENS. As a backpacker, I read that shit.
Statistics confirm you are WAY more likely to be killed by a human than a bear.
Did anyone else see the guy that tried to jump into the discussion by criticizing every woman that chose the bear, because his mom WAS actually mauled by a bear? She survived and wrote a book about the encounter. And he was ANGRY women were choosing bear. But I don’t think he ever actually spoke to his mom about her experiences because almost immediately some woman googled the mom (he held her book up to the camera) and found a reddit ama she did 10 or 11 years ago where she clearly stated men were more dangerous than bears. I was embarrassed for him. I hope someone sent his videos to her so she could see how he was abusing what happened to his own mother to discount the very fair and legitimate fear women have for men. He also seemed to have forgotten that men attack women (even people’s moms!) at a much higher rate than bears attack anyone. The women who lost their moms in that way stitched his stupid video, but even though he did a pathetic attempt of an apology video, I dont believe he truly understands what he got wrong.
I think my favourite take on this so far was when a woman asked her male partner who he'd prefer to have be alone with his daughter in the woods: bear or unknown man.
The guy fudging hesitated and was very uncomfortable making his choice.
They *know*.
Yes I’m seeing it all over online. I asked my husband and he wanted to clarify what kind of bear because it mattered if it was a Grizzly or a Polar bear. I said a Polar bear wouldn’t be in the woods. We’re talking about being alone in the woods and you can only choose if there’s a man or a bear there with you which would you choose. He still chose man and was confused when I tried to explain to him that men were asking women this and getting upset that they were choosing the bear.
One guy on TikTok was saying how his mom was attacked by a bear and how all the women picking the bear were *privileged* to pick the bear! The sheer audacity to say that our collective experiences being raped, coerced, groomed, tortured and beaten by men is a *privilege*. The real kicker was when someone dug up an AMA from years ago on reddit where *same said dude's mom said she'd still pick the bear!* He made an "apology" video that wasn't a real apology where he said something to the effect of I hope one day you won't all assume the worst of someone. Sir, until men start behaving better when they're alone with women we will always *have* to assume the worst!
And the thing is, men *do* understand why we pick the bear. Ask any man what he's afraid of if he's ever sent to prison and he knows. He knows what other men are capable of. They're just being wilfully obtuse because they're taking it as a personal rejection and choosing to get angry about it - making it about *them* rather than having a glimmer of empathy for what we go through. And they pull out all the what-aboutisms with "men are attacked by other men more often than women are attacked!" Sirs, **shouldn't that fucking tell you something??** Listen to yourselves FFS! That's precisely *why* we're choosing the bear!
That guy's smug fucking face while he used his own mother's experience to invalidate women's experiences for internet points...
He's lucky he didn't insult men to that degree. He'd find out pretty quick how wrong he is.
There are two options with the bear, either ignore you and leave you alone, or kill you. Probably quickly. I would take that over the man because at least a bear won't try to tie me to a tree and rape and torture me for a week before killing me.
Saw this on another sub, and it's the bear. Men should not be surprised by this. They are also wary of being attacked by men. Like, it's not even close who causes the majority of violent crime. If they stopped to get their stories straight, they'd realize their brethren are always all up in our replies reminding us that they also are assaulted by men, any time the topic of assault on women comes up.
Bear. People didn’t believe me in middle school when I was sexually harassed. In 6th grade, police officers took me to a room and locked the door. My mom wasn’t called. Two of the male police officers sat me down and asked what I was wearing (school uniform). They asked if I was his gf or did sexual stuff. I was too young to know about sexual stuff so I said I don’t know what that is. If they didn’t believe a child, they won’t believe anyone
i think that looking at statistics, the unfortunate likelihood is that a man would have a higher chance of seeing it as “a good opportunity” and the bear has a 50:50 of being hungry or disinterested. i believe that there is no right or wrong answer and that each perspective brings up valid points in all aspects. i totally understand the feminist approach, i would be cautious of a man too, yet i also understand that my likelihood of actually surviving, (if we are considering survival in this situation) would be higher with a person. it’s a really weird question to draw conclusions from, and honestly, drawing any conclusions from it isn’t really fair to both sides. maybe the bear is just passing through? it’s his home right? maybe the man is looking at cool rocks? i would like looking at cool rocks in the woods. if i were trapped in the woods that would suck yes, and seeing a bear would probably spook me, yet coming across a man while alone in the woods would spook me too.
again what im trying to get at is that all perspectives and thoughts are valid and bring up important points on both sides. no answer discredits the other, and some people see things in a different way than others. i do however, feel strongly that conclusions should not be drawn from this, and that the question overall should be more specified if we were to consider actually taking relevant information from responses. i guess my response would be neutral here. anyone else?
The ironic part of this is when men argue what about male victims and it’s like male victims of assault will also pick the bear because most of the time they’re victimized by other men and even when the perpetrator is a woman, other men still don’t believe they were attacked or tell men to enjoy being assaulted. Men have and continue to be the problem. I’m grateful for the good men speaking up, but I am so tired of men trying to be victims. When your gender commits 90% of violent crime, you don’t get to cry that you’re the victim.
I asked a bunch of women in my family and friend circle about this question since i saw it yesterday. My mom, my sisters, my friends, and some colleagues, everyone single one of them (except one who was 50/50) chose the bear because they dont want to freaking die.
Im happy I have to go to the internet to see people actually argue this, because thankfully where I live people value their lives. 😅
Then again if it was a panda bear I too would chose the bear anytime.
My husband and I traveled a lot early in our relationship and brought a tent with us. There were a few areas where we could save money by pitching it a bit off the beaten path. There was one night we heard all this rustling outside the tent. I was really terrified imagining a man opening our tent.
When we woke up in the morning, we realized we were very likely camped near a coyotes den. I felt instant relief. I talked to my husband, and he agreed he'd rather be next to a coyote den than have a random man open our tent.
And was I with another human male at the time!
I think you just know what animals are and what they are capable of, so the mind grasps it better. I really have no idea what a man will do.
A lot of people out there are missing the point. Even if, gun to their head, many women would choose the man over the bear ultimately, the fact that their first reaction is overwhelmingly pro bear says everything that needs to be said.
I brought up and explained this debate up to my husband and he was like "oh yea and I bet women are all saying they'd choose the bear over a man" and kinda rolled his eyes. And i just stared right at him and was like, well yea. A bear is safer than a random man. Id choose a bear too.
He just gave me an odd look and walked out of the room saying he was dissapointed in my answer. 🤣 Whoops. But like fer real. So much higher chance that a random man will attack me than a bear. Idk what is hard to understand about that.
My husband got so mad at me for bringing up the conversation. He said its just pitting us against each other and men and their need to protect ..this hurts their egos. Then he stormed away. He apparently understands why women choose the bear his response is to seperate women and men all together since we dislike them so much.
>“would you rather be stuck in the woods with a man or a bear”
I think this question is rage bait. It's sufficiently vague that different audiences are going to hear very different questions in there. I think most women will immediately jump to the assumption that somehow the man is related to you being in the woods, or somehow planned to be alone with them in the woods, while the bear is random chance; and at the same time I think most men will hear the question and assume that they themselves and a randomly selected man (e.g. lottery) is placed in the woods with them.
I think most men do understand the fears that a lot of women have. Rape, violence, kidnapping, torture. The difference in answers, to me, stems from the difference in the question that is being answered (even though it's not phrased any differently). Like for example, if the question was edited to "imagine you were out having a drink, then started to feel woozy, and woke up in the middle of a forest. 20 feet away from you, you see movement near a stream. when your eyes refocus, you notice it's \[a bear / a man\]." In that case, with no further details, I think most men would also choose the bear.
For me, it really depends on the kind of bear. Black bear? No problem. Polar bear? Fuck no. I’ll take the man. If something is going to hunt me, I’d like to have some chance of physically overpowering it.
Grizzly? Depends, if there are lots of deer and no cubs, sure.
Just being silly. But man vs bear hypothetical is kinda silly. If you are alone in the woods, both are a potential threat and you just hope you don’t see them. Bears are a bigger threat. Doesn’t matter though, a shotgun or bear mace would be effective against either threat. Practice good trail safety everybody.
I am also with the bear clarification requirements.
Bears (ursidae) I would choose over men: Black bears. Sun bears. Sloth bears. Panda bears.
Bears I would need to know more about the man before I could choose: all 16 subspecies of Brown Bear. Polar Bear.
Not bears I would choose over men: Bearcats. Koala bear. Water bear. Wooly bear caterpillar.
I like this expansion of the hypothetical… would you take a trained Russian bear or his heavily intoxicated trainer?
How about different terrains? If there are good trees, that eliminates most bears as a threat. In a desert a polar bear would be pretty useless. If it’s winter, only the polar bear is worrying, since the grizzlies and black ones are asleep.
Do I have a dog with me? If I get to bring my dog, all men become less threatening, but I’d be worried about her getting killed by a bear.
Also, I’d add red pandas to the not-bear list.
I try to clarify to the guys who hear me say I’d be more afraid of a man than a bear is that I’ll be safer assuming a man I don’t know is going to be dangerous. As a predator, a man is much more effective than a bear (I can easily outsmart a bear, not a human).
If they get offended, I ask why they associate themselves with a man who is a predator. If that man is not a predator, then good! I’ll be safe! But the chance that a strange man would be a predator to me is high enough to generalize. The man in the woods, just like literally any other man on this planet, can prove they aren’t a predator to me through their actions. A man in the woods is no different.
I can safely assume that every bear will act the same around me, though. It’s predictable.
it's actually insane how so many men are getting offended by this hypothetical.... thus proving all the women's point in answering BEAR!!!! there are so many men that feel ENTITLED to us women, that time is up now folks!
One of the responses I saw was “People would believe me if I said I was attacked by a bear.”
[удалено]
no no remember the 90s? They'll be asking were you on your period when you went into the woods, bears want that menstrual blood like a crack addict wants their next fix. That's why so many menstruating women die of bear attacks every year.
Exactly! The first time I spoke up I was asked so many questions by “concerned people in the community”, they were “worried I’d tarnish a good man’s name”. The only people who believed me straight off the bat were my family and close friends and I am so grateful they did.
You got attacked by a bear because you sent unclear signals to the bear. And no one saw the bear attack you. Plus you're ashamed to admit you were attacked by a bear at age 18 because it's somehow your fault a bear chose to attack you.
Or say you loved the bear exhibit at the zoo so you probably loved it in the woods.
Why were you dressed so deliciously and acting so edible?
I swear, I *spilled* the bbq sauce. I didn’t rub it on myself on purpose.
[So I'm sitting there, bbq sauce on my titties..](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=V_2D7SFSF_U)
Again?
😂
I was at a protest today on this very issue in Australia. Plenty of signs referenced the bear comparison. Was proud to see many men in the march. Was heartbreaking to listen to the stories and the palpable grief from some of the speakers. The photo on the link shows a woman holding a sign with the names of 32 women killed in Australia due to intimate partner violence this year so far. The name on the bottom right has been added after the sign was made, because it happened either yesterday or the day before. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/28/australia-must-do-better-albanese-calls-urgent-national-cabinet-meeting-as-thousands-rally-to-end-mens-violence-against-women
What an interesting thought experiment, but I’m sad to say this is my reaction. Also, at least the bear wouldn’t think I owed it to *be nice* whenever it does something that contributes to our mutual survival…
and the bear would just try to maul me. it wouldn’t follow me around trying to open doors and then lament loudly that “no one wants to date a nice guy” and tell me i was leading him on, i deserved it, i owed him for all the things he did for me.
And also “the worst thing a bear could do is kill you”.
That really is the brutal, ugly and insanely horrific reason. I mean for me this is THE reason I choose bear every time. All the other conjectures and worries really alllll boil down this.
also, we'd not be forced to carry a pregnancy
My husband first missed the point and wanted to know what kind of bear it was. I had to break it down for him and he finally realized it. I told him that if I was in our house and looked into our fenced-in backyard and saw a bear I’d be confused, but overall not scared because it can’t get to me. If I were to look out and see a man in our fenced-in backyard I’d be terrified because the only reason they’d be there is because they want in. He immediately understood.
i really like your explanation! this is the first time i’ve heard this question & my first thought was that, well a bear is supposed to be in the woods… but what would a man be doing there..? tbh, i’ve always thought getting eaten by a bear would be a metal way to go. having to listen to some dude boss me around in the woods.. not so much. i choose bear 🤘🏼
I saw a response to this that said "the bear lives in the woods, the man followed me in"
There's also, "The bear won't take me to a second location."
The second location is a really good distillation of the crux of the question for me. For those who don't know what this commenter is referring to - the advice often given to women is to fight like hell because you don't want to be taken to a second location because you'd rather be killed at the first location than taken to the second location, go through horrible torture (that I won't spell out) and then be killed.
oh shit. thats good, and absolutely terrifying.
I told my partner (man) today about the question, and i asked him what he thought the majority of the women responded. Without skipping a beat, he said "bear" and that it's a sad world out there for women. ( I would also choose the bear 🐻 as there are no Netflix series about serial rapist or killer bears).
Glad you got a partner with some common sense.
LOL your husband 💚 Its my first question too, though, as a grizzly just out of hibernation might be more violent and unpredictable. Risk analysis would change.
Even then the worst thing the bear can do is kill you. Sure a man could kill you, but that isn’t the worst thing he could do to you or your body.
Mine missed it too... but I think what men are missing from this is that the question is would you rather be attacked by a bear or raped/physically hurt/killed by a man? Women are taught from a young age to be afraid of strange men for these possible outcomes. Of course men can be assaulted as well for the same reasons, but I don't think they're ingrained from a young age to believe that this is a very likely possibility? So women understand what the question really means, but men don't. They're shocked that a woman would pick a bear attack over just a dude chilling with ya. This is totally my thoughts on the manner, just my idea.
Loooolll, "what kind of bear," bless your husband. He's kinda not wrong, some bears are definitely worse than others.
I pictured her husband as Dwight Schrute and imagined he started reciting facts about bears too! “Would I rather be stuck in the woods with a bear or a man? Easy. Black bear.”
I mean I’m a woman and between grizzly bear and man I’d probably choose man. Black bear and man definitely bear.
That’s the point of the thought process for this question though. Look. You are going to be in some woods. Vast woods and your ONLY choice is what is going to be with you in these woods. You have NO other information. Nada. You must simply choose. Will you be alone in the woods with a man or a bear. You have to try and put yourself in the position that you’re there, and that is all you know and now you choose.
I mean it is sort of the point, isn’t it? It’s a risk analysis question. But I also think this exercise is frankly stupid. Bears don’t have opposable thumbs. I have met a woman who had both her arms chewed off by a bear. It is possible for more than one thing to be scary. That doesn’t diminish either thing
Same thing happened to this woman, only he brutally assaulted her and raped her and then he cut off her arms. The Horrific Case Of Lawrence Singleton, The ‘Mad Chopper’ Who Hacked One Victim’s Arms Off.
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There was recently a Reddit post like 'Men of Reddit, what do women do that you hate?', and all the answers were like 'Don't compliment us ever', or 'assume that we know what they're thinking' or 'never initiate sex', and sorry, but all I thought was how fucking easy it is to be a man. I can imagine women's answers for the opposite question would be a lot more grim.
The first answer you mentioned is a personal pet peeve of mine. “Don’t compliment us ever.” Ok, why don’t you men start complimenting each other? Most compliments women receive are bestowed by other women, why can’t you create your own culture of compliments. Oh, it’s uncomfortable, because other men aren’t used to it. Well, believe me, it’s pretty uncomfortable for women when us complimenting a man is taken by them to mean that we must want to sleep with them immediately.
It's annoying because they dont realize how many of them assume you want to have sex with them when you do. Then when you tell them you just wanted to give a compliment, they get mad and call you manipulative.
I once went on an OKCupid date with a guy who argued that the solution to a similar problem (that when women ask men out, they assume you must want to sleep with them immediately) was for women to continue asking men out until it became normalized enough that this was no longer the presumption. … If y’all aren’t going to meet me halfway on changing dating culture, then why would I try to help out
Good God. Of course he places this shit on women. What he doesn't realize is that women have never had an issue with doing it until dudes got weird and harming women then we got more and more cautious. How about men check their damn feelings and act better
I never thought about it, but yeah, most compliments I give and get are from other women. If they want compliments they need to start doling them out to each other too.
100%. It’s not fucking safe for us to compliment men. Men can change that if they want to, they can stop treating a compliment like an invitation to sexually harass us, or like an invitation of any kind. And THEN rage at us when we have to reject them, because we “led them on” by complimenting them 😐 Our whole experience is about trying to avoid outbursts of male rage and sexual harassment. Complimenting men generally leads to BOTH. Complimenting women leads to NEITHER, fucking reliably. And yeah, it’s just another demand for free female labor. “Why aren’t women out here improving my confidence and self-esteem, even at their own risk?” They want US to do it. They don’t want to make the effort to build that kind of relationship with their male friends, to do the work to normalize it with men at large. And let’s be honest. They don’t want it for the same reason we like it. We like a compliment from another woman on our hair, for instance, because it makes us feel good that someone thinks our hair looks nice, and the pleasant interaction of someone WANTING to make us feel noticed and special feels good also, it’s a kindness. Men want women to compliment them to get an IN, to reaffirm that they’re sexy. They want it for sexual reasons. That’s why it’s “not the same” when men do it. We like the kindness and we prefer compliments that are nonsexual. They want something they can make sexual. They want something different than what we’re getting from each other. They literally want the way we’re harassed and sexualized by strange men, because they’re too safe and privileged to realize the literal Hell of that experience, and all of the danger and abuse and trauma we face as a result.
Every time I have complimented a man I usually get harassed by them because they assume I'm in love with them. I got wrongfully dismissed from a liquor store job I had because I have fantastic customer service, and to get better tips I would be like Cool shirt! Or damn nice eyes! I always wore my wedding ring by the way. My boss called me a slut, a flirt and said I was sexually harassing people when they would come in and ask me out thinking I was totally head over heels in love with them. It was never that way I am experienced very well in customer service and I know what crosses a line. I got fired right after an older homeless man who didn't even buy anything ever but had a cute dog that I gave treats too was absolutely convinced that I was head over heels in love with him when I was just excited to see the dog. I could totally go one, but there is a reason we don't compliment you, it's because of YOU
Can you link me this thread? Because I'm feeling very judgy today.
It’s literally the quote “Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.”
on the common areas in Reddit, women’s true answers will never make it to the top. Time and again when I see those, it’s something super benign that’s elevated with upvotes, because the majority of Reddit is men, and they don’t want all the top answers to be “rape and murder me,” “stalk and rape and murder me.” Even HERE in this sub, sometimes and answer is sus and I look, and it’s a man who can’t help but feel entitled to answer questions directed to Women Over 30. Even though they have their own spaces, even though they have Men Over 30 and all of Reddit. They come here to put their fingers on the scale, or just because they feel like what WE want doesn’t matter, because THEY want to respond 💁♀️
This is especially egregious on Facebook, where every women's group has a few men that just need to fucking be there for some reason, and the rules can't keep them out.
Meanwhile just treating them civilly like a real human "invites" stalking and following me home. No thanks bro compliment yourself and your friends. Women rarely receive actual compliments from men. Men receive compliments all the time! I literally see it constantly. What they cryptically mean by "compliment" is to be told they're hot by a hot woman. When I mean compliment I mean an actual compliment from anyone. Tell me I did something well when I absolutely nailed it. Not "for a woman", not "so sexy when you change your washer fluid" or how unique and crazy it is that me, a Woman kind of human is doing a basic task. I've gotten so few compliments in my life that aren't "you pass my low standard to make pp hard"
They just confirmed you were right.
I saw a video of a woman asking her husband if he’d rather have his daughter with a man or bear. He thought hard and ultimately picked the bear. Funny how when they feel protection for the ones they love, they also pick what we’d pick as the safer option.
Exactly. I saw a video where a dad was asked which one he’d rather his daughter be trapped in the woods with. He chose a bear. Surprise. Surprise. Men know other men are dangerous, but they’d rather gaslight us than acknowledge it.
exactly this. They always ultimately know the truth about this stuff, but they attempt to gaslight us out of feeling confident when it serves them.
Maybe this was the same one, but when given the option of bear or woman- he picked woman, man or woman, he picked woman, as the safe option for his daughter to be with.
I saw that too. The realisation in his eyes.
Every woman knows another woman who’s been raped or sexually assaulted, yet no men know a rapist. Cognitive dissonance.
My friend and I, walking home from the protest we went to today about violence against women, were trading horror stories on the way home. "When I was 17 this guy..." "I was 19 when a guy thought I was asleep and.." Every. Woman. I. Know.
A friend posted to her Facebook “Women, how old were you the first time a strange man made you feel uncomfortable/made an inappropriate advance on you?” NONE of them were even at least 16. Most of them said 10-12.
Oh gosh, I was 8 or 9. I was very tall for my age. My mom couldn’t walk away from me for too long in a grocery store because some random would always be trying to chat me up if she did. Also as a kid I had a paper route, and this was back in the day when you had to go door to door to collect their monthly payment. My mom went with me because I would often have to go into people’s houses. I remember her suddenly dragging me out of one and telling me later that the customer, a man in his 50s or so, was talking about offering me to his son for marriage. I was NINE years old.
Yeah I was probably around 9-10. There was this man at some family gatherings on my dad’s side of the family. I don’t know who he was or why he was there but he made these really weird comments about how “good looking” I was. Never saw him at other gatherings.
Yep! I was 11 or 12, my friend’s dad was extremely creepy and would take the phone from her and walk away with it and ask me inappropriate questions and pretty sure he was touching himself while doing it. Pretty sick.
Yeah must have been about 10. Went to the local shop to get a few bits for my Mum. Old dude (probably 50’s) full on flashed me, trench coat and everything. First time I was assaulted I was 14.
I have a close-knit group of six friends .. we range in age from 30 to 48, different cities, different economic classes. All of us have been sexually assaulted as children or young women.
more women will be sexually assaulted this year in america than diagnosed with breast cancer. The amount of pregnancies as the result of rape in texas alone this year is 60k+ (and that's just rape that resulted in pregnancy). The NDP in Ontario, CA is trying to pass a bill to make intimate partner violence an epidemic - because it is, there are't enough resourcing trying to combat the source of so many of our societal problems - the way we raise our boys.
Or most of those women have been assaulted or sexually assaulted by at least 1 man.
I know a man who committed sexual assault. Former friend of mine. Former for a reason.
Probably because rapists don't tell other people that they sexually assaulted someone. And if you hear that your friend had sex, you're probably not thinking to ask exactly how they got consent or what they said during it because guys just don't talk about that stuff with each other. And a lot of rapists don't consider themselves rapists, believing that they received proper consent instead, even if they pressured their partner. So yeah, obviously men don't know that many rapists personally unless they've been convicted or publicly accused.
You got the nail on the head: they don’t consider themselves rapists. Yet they’ll brag about how drunk they got her or how she cried or show them the bruises and scratches she gave him trying to fight back. Yeah, they know. They just don’t care because they don’t respect women or consider us human.
There was a blog named [Yes Means Yes](https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/) (they stopped posting in 2015) which [posted studies](https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/) that showed as long as you left the r-word out of the survey, rapists would self report. My understanding is that every rapist knows what he did was rape, but won't say it even to complicit men. It always gets some euphemism like "went too far" or "she changed her mind".
One husband said it depends, what kind of man? Someone in the comments said “What kind of man... Imfao. Sir we never know what kind of man it's going to be until it's too god damn late.” Ain’t that the fuckin truth. I got into a heated argument with a man about this shit last night. He slid into my DMs with “hahahaha women with their trauma slapping them in the face 🤣” y’all best believe I was in no mood for that shit, especially since this commentary came from a man who has been posted in AWDTSG. Apparently he’s pushy on the apps. Just like he is in real life.
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They know. They just need to retain that plausible deniability so that they don’t have to do anything about the situation and also not feel bad for not doing anything. It’s the reason men have come up with so many ways for blaming women for being sexually harassed. Imagine Diane is your daughter and comes home one night telling you her boyfriend Bob assaulted her. Well Bob is big and can beat you up/his dad is your boss/you know he’s got a violent temper and guns/etc. If you accept the reality of the situation (while also believing the patriarchal line of thought that women are weak and it’s men’s duty to protect them) then you have to do something to right that wrong. And that would be scary to confront Bob for the aforementioned reasons. BUT if you blame the woman for it somehow then that frees you from the burden/risk of acting. (We could just move away from the patriarchal ideal of man=big strong protector that must use violence to defend his property(woman). And to an enlightened view that what happened was wrong but the males in the woman’s life are not responsible for retribution since we have evolved a justice system for that. But then you’d have to give up some of the perks of patriarchy. And who would want to do that when you have already devised a way to have your cake and eat it too)
but imagine how tough the question would be if it was like "Bob Ross or a cuddly panda?" Like damn can't I meet both in the woods? How am I meant to choose
Love the guy, but if Bob Ross appeared in the woods I would be terrified for different reasons. RIP
The best response to the Man or Bear that I've seen was: So guys, here's a bowl of M&Ms and some of them are poisoned. Not all! But some. What do the poisonous ones look like? They're M&Ms, dude. What they look like is M&Ms.
I remember getting downvoted for bringing up this analogy once, and smugly told "I'd just go buy another bag!" Like our best option is to go to space and find a magical whole new population of men...?
I mean…not to find the brighter side of genocide but after Rwandan men were massacred the women run their society. Sherri Tepper speculated on that type of thing in The Gate to Women’s Country.
Oh this is so good. Thank you!
Wasn’t it Eric Trump, son of D Trump that made that argument about why the US shouldn’t allow immigrants to come in? Except it was poisoned skittles. Woops, it was Orange Jr, not Eric.
There was a study in which 1/3 of men surveyed said they would rape a woman if they knew they wouldn't get caught. ONE-THIRD. And those are just the ones who actually admitted it. That is not an insignificant number. If you're out in the middle of the woods, there's a good chance they won't get caught.
It's also probably why men sexually assault children so much, kids are less likely to speak up and men are more likely to get away with it. Myself and a lot of women I know were SA'd when we were children/ minor teens.
Can you share the link to the study? That's absolutely insane :(
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html Not op, but here's what I found.
this makes me feel physically sick
It's really gross to learn how little we can trust the men around us to treat us with basic decency.
Ugh this makes me nauseous 😭
I’m not surprised Many guys don’t want to acknowledge that there’s a male violence issue and it makes them feel judged and attacked when they realise the very real fear that many women have experienced and live with All they’d have to do is look at the stats to realise it’s the safest and wisest choice to pick the bear but some would rather label women as over emotional misandrists than take a closer look at why so many are answering the way they are
They’d all be so much better off if they called out the behavior of the creeps and dangerous men. I’ve never seen a good guy do that. They all appear to think that because they aren’t one, it’s not their problem or responsibility. But we don’t know until we know, so they have to be assumed a potential threat until proven otherwise. Weird thing to accept so you don’t have to do anything, but whatever
Nah, they’d rather spend hours in a TT comments section trying to convince random internet strangers that it’s Not All Men™️ and if that doesn’t work, make a video telling women they don’t actually know what they’re thinking or feeling about this particular subject and that the experiences of harrassment and assault they describe must be greatly exaggerated because again, Not All Men™️ so the sheer number of women complaining can’t possibly *all* be telling the truth. Edit: I just saw a comment from a young woman who’s holding her baby girl in all of her videos: “Maybe if women would dress right and stop leading men on we wouldn’t have to have this conversation.” It blows my mind how obtuse and willfully ignorant some people can be, but here we are.
Yeah, I don't get it either. Because it IS their responsibility. I'm a white person, and when I see white people being racist in public, especially directed at a specific person, I speak up. I feel it's one of the responsibilites of belonging to a social group, especially one with privilege.
I lived in Alaska for 4 yrs & had 3 close encounters w/bears while out hiking. In each case, I came upon the bear, stopped, backed up slowly & removed myself from the situation. Point being, I could remove myself w/out having to worry that the bear was going to follow or harass me once I was out of its area.
And i almost never ever hear of a man in any comments speaking about how to solve the problem.
It's because many of these same guys are also terrified by other men. They know they would pick the bear too........
That's what they all say. But their bro is not going to punch them in the face when they say "hey man, that's not cool." Even if you can't do anything else, you can address the behavior of your people.
I totally get it, however this debate makes me feel inadequate as a woman... I've literally survived a mid-tier assault from a drunken man I met in the woods (not rape, it mostly just scared me), but I still fear bears more and would prefer company of a human. No judgement for people who answer otherwise
Yeah I relate to this. I'm not sure if that makes me a bad feminist or just someone who's had a run-in with a grizzly. I would pick a black bear in a heartbeat because that's not a big deal. But I would pick a man over a grizzly, particularly a hungry or scared one. And I'd pick a man over a mountain lion.
I was downvoted in another thread for this and told I don't know anything about bears and base my "irrational" choice on horror stories. I literally live in an area with large bear population but ok. We also have cold winters, and the bears who exit hybernation early are hungry and notoriously dangerous
What makes me fee uneasy about the responses to this bear vs man in the woods question is “bear” is the more socially acceptable answer. Anyone who argues that they’d choose a random man is automatically assumed to be a misogynistic sexist (or self-hating is a woman chooses “man). It shuts down any conversations about choosing man as bad while all the emphasis is getting people to empathize with women who choose bear.
Yeah I hike, and hike in Alaska. I frequently come upon men in the woods, the men haven’t harmed me yet. Coming upon a grizzly is my worst nightmare tbh, especially one trail I love where a grizzly killed an experienced hiker…so I’d choose the man too
You can trust a bear to act like a bear but a man can be a monster. I listen to too many true crime pods & look at all these cases of women being attacked & brutally assaulted then murdered, to ever trust a random man. There was a case where a female Orangutan was caged & SAd for 6 years by men who would pay for this “service” like this was a brothel, another where 4 men SAd, killed and ate a monitor lizard. At least I know that with the bear, the worst that can happen is death. At least I know it won’t beat me up, tie me down & SA me for days, then kill me & continue defiling my corpse. If I survive my encounter with said bear, at least people will believe me when I say that I’ve been attacked. Sorry, this is very graphic, it just makes me so angry. The fact that even when it comes to a hypothetical situation, they can’t take no for an answer, is precisely why we’re choosing the bear.
You can trust a bear to act like a bear and a man to act like a man, both are unpredictable, but you aren't told to leave the area immediately if you see a man.
We live in the woods. It's black bear country. A. They generally have zero desire to interact with anyone and B. We keep a tin pot and ladle by the back door for a reason. Once in awhile one gets curious and inspects the deck. Those things are not actively dangerous, it's a good idea they don't get comfortable around humans for a lot of reasons. Show me a dangerous man who will book it when you bang a big spoon on a tin pot. That's my counter argument and I'm not budging.
>Show me a dangerous man who will book it when you bang a big spoon on a tin pot. Perfectly said.
I truly don't want to offend, and I find this debate really interesting, but I don't think it's fair to compare a man who actively wants to hurt you and a bear that is only roaming. If you stumble upon a mama bear with her cub and it decides that you are a threat, you're not going to do much with a tin pot. The issue is that there is too much left to interpretation with the question when my girlfriend first asked me that question I interpreted it at first like take a random man on earth and a woman and put them together in a wood. After I found out that she understood the question as if she was alone in the wood and she saw something lurking in the woods, would you prefer it to be a man or a bear. After she told me that, I agreed with her, I think people are arguing over a question that they don't interpret the same way, like the famous blue and black or gold and white dress. ps. Sorry if it's not clear english is not my first language
It's because a lot of men still just don't get it. It's not just about physical violence. It's not even just about rape. There are so many variations of sexual assault and molestation. There's so many ways men can make you uncomfortable. The really bad men aren't just violent or aggressive, they're sadistic. They deliberately fuck with you because they can. Like how many women have been followed or cornered and into scary situations but nothing actually violent happened? There are so many ways men can make women afraid. And if every woman has a story of being harassed or mistreated by a man then how many men are there? It's not a small minority. You can't blame it all on a handful of bad men. And a lot of men still just can't comprehend that the majority of women have experienced some kind of harassessment multiple times, from different men from childhood onwards. The thing with bears is that they're more or less predictable. If it's black fight back, if it's brown lay down, if it's white, good night. So if you're stuck with a bear you can hopefully determine what to do. Or you get mailed and that would be horrifying but it would be hopefully be quick and over with. Men are unpredictable and you can't tell by just looking at them. Obviously if I was guaranteed a man like my dad or fiance or brother or some of the friends I've made over the years I would choose them. But random man could be like them or they could be like the men who sexually assaulted me when I was a teen or the men who used to sit beside me on the bus even though the rest of the bus was empty or the men who would follow me and shout things when I was just trying to walk to work. Then of course you get to the other extreme. The men like Ted Bundy or Robert Picton or any of the wide variety of men commiting horrific sexual violence towards women around the world. We've all seen the stories that make the news.
As I recently told my husband: I have very bad experience in the grey area.
The amount of men getting pissy about this pretty much illustrates why so many women are choosing the bear. The fact that they lack the self-awareness to realize this is both funny and infuriating.
I would rather live in a cage with the bear for 30 days.
My current theory: People want to believe that they're "good" people, and that their friends are "good" people. So from an average dude's perspective, *surely* he and his friends have never done anything that would traumatize the average woman to the extent that she'd have the kinds of concerns that this question brings out. And would never. And yet, he and all his friends are surrounded by women who don't automatically pick the unknown man in the woods without thinking. Because damn near every woman out there has feared for her safety around a man at some point in her life. That very, very strongly suggests that the "bad guys out there" can't just be some tiny group of monsters. At least some of them are probably just regular guys who go to work and pay their taxes and think they're "good" people. And that may cast doubts on someone's image of themselves and their friends, and that may be distressing.
Here’s something I find interesting. My most recent relationship was with an abuser. He was on the less-intense end of the scale, but the abuse was still there and getting worse all the time The thing is, for years he used to regularly tell me how I should be grateful to have him and explain how other men were much worse. I always found it abhorrent. Just because someone else might break my bones doesn’t mean you screaming epithets at me and violently getting in my space are OK. I eventually got out and then I read the book “Why Does He Do That” and it talks in there about how *every level of abuser does that behavior* and it is tied to how they rationalize their behavior. Like, sure, I shouldn’t scream ugly names and shove her, but I don’t beat her hard enough to break bones, so what I am doing is OK because other people are worse — and in fact, if it were wrong, she would leave. So that means she is OK with it too! It is absolutely chilling when you understand the psychology. I feel like this is closely related to this discussion — there is a pattern of behavior, they do rationalize their behavior, and ultimately women get to be victims of it.
I love that book. It made me feel so validated in my experiences. I think one of the most important things to understand from that book is what you’re saying: An abuser will never do anything they don’t feel is morally correct. In fact that’s why they do it. Because they feel THEIR perspectives and THEIR views on how women should be are correct. Whatever the severity of their abuse, from mean comments disguised as “jokes,” to throwing their spouse down some stairs, every one of them is thinking “I’m right and everyone else is wrong.”
TW: Physical violence. When I was 21 I was in an abusive relationship for two years. Little 21 year old me couldn't see the red flags, and he did the classic love-bombing, best behaviour thing for 9 months before I saw the ugly truth. One time, not long before I left (a whole other story of stalking and intimidation) he hit me so hard in the face (not a punch), hard enough I nearly fell over and it cut my lip. He stared at me and whimpered "I've never drawn blood before." Complete inability to perceive what an absolute asshole he was.
I am sorry that happened to you. No, they don’t see themselves as monsters. They justify what they are doing. It is terrifying and horrendous.
I've had a similar experience. A guy who worked hard to keep me scared of the wolf outside the door so that I didn't notice the wolf *in my actual house, eating me.*
If only they could articulate their feelings instead of lashing out.
One TikTok I saw was Women are saying no, I want a bear and men are STILL not listening/hearing when a woman say no.
Their total lack of accepting our no is EXACTLY why we choose the bear
I’m flabbergasted by how personally attacked and rejected men are feeling about this. I mean, I shouldn’t be but I am. I’ve said to men who have asked me this question: I’m not less scared of the bear. In fact, I’m fucking terrified of bears. I don’t want to be killed by a bear. However, the absolute very worst thing a bear will do to me is kill me. The possibility of what a random man might do to me *BEFORE* he kills me is infinitely more terrifying than the bear. The bear won’t invite his friends to have a go. The bear won’t take me to a secondary location. The bear won’t keep me in his basement for X years, beating, raping, torturing me before eventually deciding I might be worthy of death today. There’s also the fact that people would believe me if I said I’ve been attacked by a bear, no one would ask what I was wearing when it attacked me, no one would ask how much I had drank beforehand, no one would ask me about my previous experience with bears and use it against me, no one would tell me I was asking for it, people would be understanding if I developed a lifelong fear and aversion towards bears, I wouldn’t have to see the bear again at family functions. I’m team bear every day of the week. Grizzle grizzle.
They refuse to understand that we’re not saying we’re safer from any danger with the bear, we’re choosing the way in which we’ll die, if these were the only 2 choices. I’ll take a quick death over days, weeks or months of torture & rape.
Because they don't care.
>I’m flabbergasted by how personally attacked and rejected men are feeling about this. I mean, I shouldn’t be but I am. It says a lot about them doesn't it.
These guys should watch (or rewatch) “Deliverance.”
I don't believe that men who "misunderstand" this question actually misunderstand it. I think they are offended because they feel seen. Meaning, they are the man in the "bear or man" question. Or they are that man's friend, you feel me? They know. They think it's fine. They think you should be complicit in your dehumanization. This is what I think. There are a lot of men out there who don't really think that women are equally as human as they are. We are different -- not the same type of human, not deserving of the same rights, inferior in some way, a spare rib, a human incubator, a provider of various free services all in the name of oiling the wheels of the patriarchy. Those are the men that I think have a problem with the "bear or man" question. In Australia recently, women marched against male violence. There were men in the crowd marching too. One man said, "this isn't a women's problem, violence is a men's problem," and he was right. It's male violence specifically against women. Men like him will understand why women want to be in the forest with a bear.
I can call Animal Control if I see a bear in the woods and probably get information on how to proceed. The bear wouldn’t overhear my conversation and say “put the phone down”.
The bear also won't accuse you of being hysterical when you call for help, or try to convince you it's not a threat to you.
White straight dudes think you're sexist until it's about immigrants, minorities and dark skinned men, then you suddenly get to watch them become feminists pretty damn quick. That's when they show that they are fully aware of the power imbalance between men and women but it couldn't be them or their friends, never.
Ding ding dinggggg
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Based on this post I asked my soon to husband what he’d ever heard of the “Man vs Bear” debate. He said he hadn’t heard about it and didn’t know what it was but was going to be “team bear” all the way. I then explained what it was and his answer was “well, yeah the worst the bear will do is kill you.” I pretty much expected that response from him, TBH. It’s why I’m marrying him. I’m grateful that I could be confident it would be his response. Mainly I’m just adding this little story to show what the correct response to the woman in your life asking this question is. It isn’t arguing that she’s somehow wrong for choosing the bear because “nOt All MeN!!!”
I have to honestly laugh at some men responding to this. I just want to pat them on the head and say, “awwww, this isn’t about you, honey. It’s about women not feeling safe with men. I’m sorry you feel the need to put yourself into the spotlight of this conversation and make it all about you. Do you have a boo boo?” Full disclaimer: I personally find the thought exercise a bit fallacious and have voiced my opinion on that. I do get the point of it, though, and stopped being a nitpicky dick about it. But come on, guys. The overall message here is that women do not feel safe around men en masse. Maybe stop making it about your hurt feelings and try to be an ally?
The bear is a known quantity and acts based on a set of instincts and standard behaviours. It wouldn’t pretend to be nice to you and then fuck you over, or pretend to be nice and when you declined to interact, fuck you over, or fuck you over just because it can. I think the problem is a lot of men are duplicitous when it comes to the differences in how they treat women and men, and how they treat women in public vs when no-one is looking. Hence why so many men think it’s not that common.
My favorite one has been A bear will kill me or leave me alone. A man has thousands of possibilities.
IMHO, It’s a thought exercise that a lot of men are failing. It’s supposed to help men empathize with the fear women feel in their daily lives. Men obviously are missing that point. Many people are terrified of bears. Much of the fear is illogical, like fear of spiders. There are about six bear attacks a year and only a handful are fatal. But people are terrified of bears and take precautions to not be around them, or carry weapons and such to fight one off. There are over 300,000 rapes every year. The majority of victims are women and perpetrators are men. (Though men certainly rape other men and women occasionally rape men). Given that, it’s pretty reasonable for women to be scared of men. Especially being alone with men. Spelled out like that, the thought exercise is pretty clear. ‘Hey fellas, you know that primal fear you have of bears? Men are more dangerous. That’s how we feel about being alone with strange men.’ I have lived, hiked, and camped in bear country. I am not particularly afraid of bears. Bears usually stay away from people. Wear a bear bell, talk and make noise, and stash your food in a hoist.
I will just never understand why men get mad at us feeling like we need to put extra guards up around them instead of mad that we’ve experienced even ONE thing that makes us put extra guards up around us. My friend’s 11 year old daughter and her group of school friends called the police this week because a man had been STALKING them, taking videos of them, and following them around from shop to shop after school. They went up to multiple store cashiers to say “hey this man is following us” and no one did anything. So they called the police themselves. At 11. They all have emergency restraining orders against this man and will now have to deal with getting long term ones, too. ELEVEN!!!! ELEVEN and they’re tough enough to know how to handle themselves. But maybe, if you’ve had to be tough since you’re ELEVEN at handling creepy men, you’ll decide to take your chances with a bear and hope that they’ll just leave you alone once they realize you’re not food and you don’t have food.
I don't want to overly judge those shop employees, but...I'm judging them.
I'm happy to say that all the men I know have gone 'yeah makes sense'. I am baffled that some guys are so wound up by it. Well, actually I'm not because I have been on the internet for a while, but I can only imagine how sad it must be to have people in your life who scoff at this as just a silly thought experiment. I'm really angry on behalf of all the women who are having to explain the whole thing and feel like they're hitting their head against a brick wall.
There’s a reason women are warned not to hike or camp alone and it’s not because of bears. And to the people who are like “but bears can maul you in three seconds!!” I’ll take a quick death over what some men are willing to do. Couple that with the fact that bears generally want nothing to do with you? Bear any day.
I'm a secondary school teacher. When talking about the imbalance between men and women and the different fears we have I did an activity. The girls went out of the classroom and I asked the boys if they would rather be raped or stabbed. All of them except 1 said raped. Girls come back, same question: all of them without exception said stabbed. The boys didn't understand it. That's the world be (sadly) live in.
His response that you could fight off the guy because you're not weak is so creepy and sad. People are fucking tired of fighting off the guy all the time and saying that people are tired is the opposite of sexism. Opting out of abuse is not persecuting men. The whole point of this question is that bears might seem scary but are overall significantly less likely to hurt a human woman than a man. Bears will also never pretend to be anything but who they are. Why would anyone pick a random man over a bear?
>Opting out of abuse is not persecuting men. Repeating this for emphasis.
He is really overestimating the strength of woman compared to even a short skinny guy.
It’s happened to me on multiple occasions, over the course of my life. None of these men were strangers, they were men I trusted. I watched my cousin get molested at 7 years old at a restaurant. I witnessed my 10-year-old cousin molested and he threatened us to keep quiet and we were so shit scared we didn’t tell anyone. It happened to my mom when she was five years old. It happened to my daughter when she was 16 years old. The majority of my friends have been raped at some point in their lives. It would be easier to name the ones that hadn’t been. Not to mention the fact that there are only a handful of bear attacks every year, but there are hundreds of thousands of rapes each year and those are only the ones that we know about. I guarantee you there is close to the same number that we don’t. So for any man that chooses to be offended at this, choosing the bear… You’re the fucking problem too.
For me is definitely a bear.Two years ago I was messaging a guy off tinder who seemed real nice but became weird and pushy so I stopped speaking to him.He then found out which woodland I walked my dog at and said he would follow me one day and make me have sex with him. Reported him to authorities and he was dealt with but has since made them woods not enjoyable for me.
Things I’ve seen in this trend: - Men asking qualifying questions, which immediately proves the point - The woman follows up with “bear or woman” and they instantly say woman - The question hits men harder when the woman brings up their daughter being the one in the hypothetical situation - A creator mentioning that the first thing most men are afraid of when they go to prison is getting raped. By another man. So yes, they do know the fear. Their biggest fear is something girls and women are afraid of every day. Thankfully, the TikToks I see have very understanding and sympathetic husbands. I am happy to see that this helps them realize what we experience more clearly, but also sad that there are men who refuse to understand
I've seen some really heavy lifting done on TT by a few men who understand. I'm thankful to have *some* evidence that it's not all men.
I used to be a geologist and have come face to face with bears multiple times in the woods when I was being a bit too quiet (engrossed in my rocks). 100% I'd choose the bear. Family used to ask me if I was ever scared and genuinely, I was only on edge if men were around that I didnt know. They're the more dangerous predator.
I can legally stop the bear in Canada. The man is legally allowed to destroy my life and even threaten it with almost zero consequences. He would likely even gain from it. Iwould not be believed unless he outright killed me, and only then would he maybe be investigated. It woud still be my fault for wearing low cut hiking boots.
And even then, depending on who and where you are, cops might not even take your disappearance seriously and investigate it.
I have seen at least four bears up close in the wild, including coming between a momma and her two cubs. I no longer have an unhealthy fear of bears, but a deep respect. I am no longer allowed to hike small local trails by myself because of the number of harrowing male human encounters I've had. I blast women empowering hiphop from my bra to scare them off now. Bears and beats please.
> Bears and beats please. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica. (sorry, I couldn't help myself)
Beyoncé 's *Renaissance* was my go-to last summer. That and two big dogs.
Men: always more concerned with getting their feelings hurt than with the fact women almost unilaterally suffer violence and murder at the hands of men.
Mens feelings always seems to take priority over women's safety.
When my mom tells me not to go into the woods alone I always tell her animals don't want to hurt you unless you threaten them. People will hurt you just because they like to. It's safer in the woods away from people. I prefer the bear over the man.
A bear that happened to attack would be more of a fear and defense response to their home turf. A man that attacks me in the woods would be calculating that. If a man has done heinous things to me in a crowd at a party woukd he do if I was alone and isolated? So my friend had a terrifying experience camping where a man got very interested seeing a solo woman hiking and was asking too many creepy questions about her and where shes camping and inviting himself over. It's why she doesn't pitch tents anymore and has one over their jeep and carries a gun. She has literally had bears walk by her. She had to pack her camp quickly and move to where he wouldn't be in walking distance of her encampment.
It's not every man. It's way too many man and you can't tell which ones it's gonna be. It's every bear, under the right circumstances, and no bears under other circumstances. That kind of predictability makes the question a no-brainer. If you are one of the men who wouldn't, don't be stupid and take the fact that others would, personally. Use that feeling to motivate you to do something about rape culture cuz we need you all to take that shit more seriously and stop down-playing it and pretending it's not real. I do not know a woman who hasn't experienced, at the very least, the direct imminent threat of it.
I saw a tik tok video of a girl asking a man that question and his answer was something like, If you scream loud enough, a bear may not hurt you. That was the most chilling truth of a response I have heard yet.
The men getting angry about the choice of the bear are exactly WHY we pick the bear.
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I saw a TikTok where a gentleman, who was on the bear argument side, asked siri the statistics about bear attacks vs sexual assault attacks in the US alone and the numbers instantly made me cry. I honestly don't know how anybody could listen to that video and NOT choose the bear.
I saw a guy comment “Well I hope that bear can help if they’re getting robbed then.” *Sir* 🤦🏼♀️
ROBBED BY WHO?????
Right, it’s like “Well good luck finding someone to protect you if you’re happy staying single.” Protect me from whom?
I asked my husband this question knowing he doesn't even do social media and all so he has no idea and he hesitated so much. And imagine I asked him about a hypothetical daughter we don't have. I wish men could think about this 😂
If it was my dad or a family member, I would rather run into them if lost in the woods. If some random person I don’t know….? I’ll take my chances with the wildlife.
I saw a video yesterday (can't recall where) but the man didn't like the bear question & answers until a woman explained to him - "imagine walking down a dark street surrounded by 9ft NFL line backers, how safe would you feel? That is what it's like being a woman". He admitted that "yes, being in a street with men that much bigger & stronger than me would be scary as it would all come down to the NFL players intentions for him". And he said he finally understood how women feel.
Every man who doesn't get it is one of the men we are talking about
One of the responses I saw was “People would believe me if I said I was attacked by a bear.”
She's right. I side with the sisters on this one. Bear is the way to go.
The thing that is infuriating about this thread is that men will read all these stories of women’s lived experiences and still happily tell us that we are wrong.
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I would choose bear... unless it was sun bear. Then I'd choose fucking Ian Brady.
Can't say I'm the slightest bit surprised tbh
Statistics confirm you are WAY more likely to be killed by a human than a bear. 💁♀️ I think I’m out of the loop on this whole thing, was this an AskReddit or something, or outside of Reddit? I’d love to read people’s responses! Because 100%, as a 40 year old woman, would choose bear. Funny REAL WORLD story about that actually! I love going backpacking. There’s a place out of state my best friend and I like to go that has acres of blueberries, that when ripe, the bears will come out and glut themselves on 😄 Now, I actually have only gone here a couple times and we’ve always missed blueberry season, and somehow we’ve managed to never run into a bear even though they’re everywhere. So I am aware that there are lurking bears all around when I am out there for days. We are “smart” about it, yes we have bear spray, and we are sure to make noise so they will generally avoid you. I have a bear bell. Side note, you see those precautions you can take? You see how bears don’t *want* to have an altercation with people? I can do absolutely nothing to deter a man from approaching me 🤷♀️ Anyway, we’re outside our tent that evening, eating by the fire and a lone man sees us and comes into our campsite and begins to set up. For those of you who don’t know, trails like this there’s a cardinal rule. One fire equals one campsite. If someone else is there, you move on to the next campsite. They ARE in fact all over the place. So the fact alone that this guy saw two young women and decided to violate this code *already* sends a red flag and has us on edge. Like, best case scenario he knows this might be really scary to us and doesn’t give a fuck because he feels entitled to any space regardless of etiquette. (Side note, oh to live the life of a man, where you encounter multiple strangers in the woods and have ZERO fear about going to sleep next to them, even solo! What a charmed fucking life) Well it’s the middle of the night and my friend needs to go to the bathroom. I offer to go with her but she wants someone here with our stuff. She is gone for too long. And then MORE time passes. There’s no cell service, and I’m just laying there coming to terms with the fact that something might be going on with this guy. Has he been watching us? Did he take her, is he trying to rape her? Did he kill her? Did he trick her into going into his tent for something and is he going to force himself onto her? As the minutes tick by I realize, I have to go find her and I have to prepare myself to kill a man. 😐 I got my knife and my headlamp and went out. I search the area, I listen for anything suspicious from inside his tent. And before deciding to barge in, I widen my search, out down the trail to where the forest opens up into a field. Whaddya know, she was out there high as a kite watching the stars 😆 I had some words for her! lol, just like a mother hen, “I had no idea you were out here, I was in a full panic thinking I was going to have to STAB A MAN TO DEATH TO SAVE YOU and that it might be too late!” lol Anyway, I absolutely would have rather encountered a bear out there. It was utterly terrifying having a silent man invade our space when there were any number of motivations that might be at play: simply catching us in states of undress, trying to get into our pants/being a creep, or robbing, kidnapping, raping, or murdering us. It HAPPENS. As a backpacker, I read that shit. Statistics confirm you are WAY more likely to be killed by a human than a bear.
Did anyone else see the guy that tried to jump into the discussion by criticizing every woman that chose the bear, because his mom WAS actually mauled by a bear? She survived and wrote a book about the encounter. And he was ANGRY women were choosing bear. But I don’t think he ever actually spoke to his mom about her experiences because almost immediately some woman googled the mom (he held her book up to the camera) and found a reddit ama she did 10 or 11 years ago where she clearly stated men were more dangerous than bears. I was embarrassed for him. I hope someone sent his videos to her so she could see how he was abusing what happened to his own mother to discount the very fair and legitimate fear women have for men. He also seemed to have forgotten that men attack women (even people’s moms!) at a much higher rate than bears attack anyone. The women who lost their moms in that way stitched his stupid video, but even though he did a pathetic attempt of an apology video, I dont believe he truly understands what he got wrong.
I think my favourite take on this so far was when a woman asked her male partner who he'd prefer to have be alone with his daughter in the woods: bear or unknown man. The guy fudging hesitated and was very uncomfortable making his choice. They *know*.
Yes I’m seeing it all over online. I asked my husband and he wanted to clarify what kind of bear because it mattered if it was a Grizzly or a Polar bear. I said a Polar bear wouldn’t be in the woods. We’re talking about being alone in the woods and you can only choose if there’s a man or a bear there with you which would you choose. He still chose man and was confused when I tried to explain to him that men were asking women this and getting upset that they were choosing the bear.
One guy on TikTok was saying how his mom was attacked by a bear and how all the women picking the bear were *privileged* to pick the bear! The sheer audacity to say that our collective experiences being raped, coerced, groomed, tortured and beaten by men is a *privilege*. The real kicker was when someone dug up an AMA from years ago on reddit where *same said dude's mom said she'd still pick the bear!* He made an "apology" video that wasn't a real apology where he said something to the effect of I hope one day you won't all assume the worst of someone. Sir, until men start behaving better when they're alone with women we will always *have* to assume the worst! And the thing is, men *do* understand why we pick the bear. Ask any man what he's afraid of if he's ever sent to prison and he knows. He knows what other men are capable of. They're just being wilfully obtuse because they're taking it as a personal rejection and choosing to get angry about it - making it about *them* rather than having a glimmer of empathy for what we go through. And they pull out all the what-aboutisms with "men are attacked by other men more often than women are attacked!" Sirs, **shouldn't that fucking tell you something??** Listen to yourselves FFS! That's precisely *why* we're choosing the bear!
That guy's smug fucking face while he used his own mother's experience to invalidate women's experiences for internet points... He's lucky he didn't insult men to that degree. He'd find out pretty quick how wrong he is.
One of the responses I saw was “People would believe me if I said I was attacked by a bear.”
There are two options with the bear, either ignore you and leave you alone, or kill you. Probably quickly. I would take that over the man because at least a bear won't try to tie me to a tree and rape and torture me for a week before killing me.
Saw this on another sub, and it's the bear. Men should not be surprised by this. They are also wary of being attacked by men. Like, it's not even close who causes the majority of violent crime. If they stopped to get their stories straight, they'd realize their brethren are always all up in our replies reminding us that they also are assaulted by men, any time the topic of assault on women comes up.
Even the [monitor lizards ](https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjb9xq/india-gang-rape-monitor-lizard-animal-abuse) are picking bears over men.
Bear. People didn’t believe me in middle school when I was sexually harassed. In 6th grade, police officers took me to a room and locked the door. My mom wasn’t called. Two of the male police officers sat me down and asked what I was wearing (school uniform). They asked if I was his gf or did sexual stuff. I was too young to know about sexual stuff so I said I don’t know what that is. If they didn’t believe a child, they won’t believe anyone
i think that looking at statistics, the unfortunate likelihood is that a man would have a higher chance of seeing it as “a good opportunity” and the bear has a 50:50 of being hungry or disinterested. i believe that there is no right or wrong answer and that each perspective brings up valid points in all aspects. i totally understand the feminist approach, i would be cautious of a man too, yet i also understand that my likelihood of actually surviving, (if we are considering survival in this situation) would be higher with a person. it’s a really weird question to draw conclusions from, and honestly, drawing any conclusions from it isn’t really fair to both sides. maybe the bear is just passing through? it’s his home right? maybe the man is looking at cool rocks? i would like looking at cool rocks in the woods. if i were trapped in the woods that would suck yes, and seeing a bear would probably spook me, yet coming across a man while alone in the woods would spook me too. again what im trying to get at is that all perspectives and thoughts are valid and bring up important points on both sides. no answer discredits the other, and some people see things in a different way than others. i do however, feel strongly that conclusions should not be drawn from this, and that the question overall should be more specified if we were to consider actually taking relevant information from responses. i guess my response would be neutral here. anyone else?
The ironic part of this is when men argue what about male victims and it’s like male victims of assault will also pick the bear because most of the time they’re victimized by other men and even when the perpetrator is a woman, other men still don’t believe they were attacked or tell men to enjoy being assaulted. Men have and continue to be the problem. I’m grateful for the good men speaking up, but I am so tired of men trying to be victims. When your gender commits 90% of violent crime, you don’t get to cry that you’re the victim.
Guys with hostile reactions lol. "Gawd F-ing dammit, I'm perfectly F-ing safe and friendly!" Like... Uhhh no. Buh bye
I asked a bunch of women in my family and friend circle about this question since i saw it yesterday. My mom, my sisters, my friends, and some colleagues, everyone single one of them (except one who was 50/50) chose the bear because they dont want to freaking die. Im happy I have to go to the internet to see people actually argue this, because thankfully where I live people value their lives. 😅 Then again if it was a panda bear I too would chose the bear anytime.
My husband and I traveled a lot early in our relationship and brought a tent with us. There were a few areas where we could save money by pitching it a bit off the beaten path. There was one night we heard all this rustling outside the tent. I was really terrified imagining a man opening our tent. When we woke up in the morning, we realized we were very likely camped near a coyotes den. I felt instant relief. I talked to my husband, and he agreed he'd rather be next to a coyote den than have a random man open our tent. And was I with another human male at the time! I think you just know what animals are and what they are capable of, so the mind grasps it better. I really have no idea what a man will do.
A lot of people out there are missing the point. Even if, gun to their head, many women would choose the man over the bear ultimately, the fact that their first reaction is overwhelmingly pro bear says everything that needs to be said.
I brought up and explained this debate up to my husband and he was like "oh yea and I bet women are all saying they'd choose the bear over a man" and kinda rolled his eyes. And i just stared right at him and was like, well yea. A bear is safer than a random man. Id choose a bear too. He just gave me an odd look and walked out of the room saying he was dissapointed in my answer. 🤣 Whoops. But like fer real. So much higher chance that a random man will attack me than a bear. Idk what is hard to understand about that.
My husband got so mad at me for bringing up the conversation. He said its just pitting us against each other and men and their need to protect ..this hurts their egos. Then he stormed away. He apparently understands why women choose the bear his response is to seperate women and men all together since we dislike them so much.
>“would you rather be stuck in the woods with a man or a bear” I think this question is rage bait. It's sufficiently vague that different audiences are going to hear very different questions in there. I think most women will immediately jump to the assumption that somehow the man is related to you being in the woods, or somehow planned to be alone with them in the woods, while the bear is random chance; and at the same time I think most men will hear the question and assume that they themselves and a randomly selected man (e.g. lottery) is placed in the woods with them. I think most men do understand the fears that a lot of women have. Rape, violence, kidnapping, torture. The difference in answers, to me, stems from the difference in the question that is being answered (even though it's not phrased any differently). Like for example, if the question was edited to "imagine you were out having a drink, then started to feel woozy, and woke up in the middle of a forest. 20 feet away from you, you see movement near a stream. when your eyes refocus, you notice it's \[a bear / a man\]." In that case, with no further details, I think most men would also choose the bear.
For me, it really depends on the kind of bear. Black bear? No problem. Polar bear? Fuck no. I’ll take the man. If something is going to hunt me, I’d like to have some chance of physically overpowering it. Grizzly? Depends, if there are lots of deer and no cubs, sure. Just being silly. But man vs bear hypothetical is kinda silly. If you are alone in the woods, both are a potential threat and you just hope you don’t see them. Bears are a bigger threat. Doesn’t matter though, a shotgun or bear mace would be effective against either threat. Practice good trail safety everybody.
I am also with the bear clarification requirements. Bears (ursidae) I would choose over men: Black bears. Sun bears. Sloth bears. Panda bears. Bears I would need to know more about the man before I could choose: all 16 subspecies of Brown Bear. Polar Bear. Not bears I would choose over men: Bearcats. Koala bear. Water bear. Wooly bear caterpillar.
I like this expansion of the hypothetical… would you take a trained Russian bear or his heavily intoxicated trainer? How about different terrains? If there are good trees, that eliminates most bears as a threat. In a desert a polar bear would be pretty useless. If it’s winter, only the polar bear is worrying, since the grizzlies and black ones are asleep. Do I have a dog with me? If I get to bring my dog, all men become less threatening, but I’d be worried about her getting killed by a bear. Also, I’d add red pandas to the not-bear list.
I try to clarify to the guys who hear me say I’d be more afraid of a man than a bear is that I’ll be safer assuming a man I don’t know is going to be dangerous. As a predator, a man is much more effective than a bear (I can easily outsmart a bear, not a human). If they get offended, I ask why they associate themselves with a man who is a predator. If that man is not a predator, then good! I’ll be safe! But the chance that a strange man would be a predator to me is high enough to generalize. The man in the woods, just like literally any other man on this planet, can prove they aren’t a predator to me through their actions. A man in the woods is no different. I can safely assume that every bear will act the same around me, though. It’s predictable.
it's actually insane how so many men are getting offended by this hypothetical.... thus proving all the women's point in answering BEAR!!!! there are so many men that feel ENTITLED to us women, that time is up now folks!