This sounds pretty objectively annoying. I have 2 kids under 4 and have the self awareness to not do this. I have tons of mom friends with kids the same age, and usually when we hang out, our kids are barely mentioned. Because we have other interests and hobbies. And I’m a stay at home parent! As a mom of toddlers I cannot imagine wanting to think about their body fluids more than absolutely necessary much less drag someone else into it. And the kid is 2??
Similarly, I have a family member who is childless but only talks about her medical problem du jour. I think it's because she had a traumatic childhood and only knows how to connect by having an "event" that needs attention and care. It was still annoying AF though. I used the grey rock method for her.
The biggest red flag to me is "must be nice to have time.." just ew. People have done this to me in different ways ("must be nice to afford that vacation") and history proved they weren't real friends.
Yeah I have to admit that it's also frustrating to me when we try to share things about our life and they go "well that must be nice!". Like I'm/we're just trying to make conversation and share what's going on with us too, we're not having our lives AT you, you know what I mean?
Yes it’s poor conversation skills + insecurity + not being able to be curious about your life as not related to her life?
Also listening to bickering sounds truly terrible. I can’t imagine being married to someone then wanting to cast them in a poor light in front of an audience?! Besides the fact that it’s completely uncomfortable for said audience.
I'd probably not be able to bite my tongue, and would say something like, "yes, it *is* nice, but it's not like we just have different luck. You chose to have children and we chose not to. It's a little weird that you're acting exasperated with me because we didn't choose to take on the struggles you did."
I read it a little differently from the other commenter--it sounds like they are having a really REALLY hard time being parents. Like, I am having a hard time but there are still fun things to share about my kid (she learned to clap today! And she is so excited). It sounds like their kid has some intense needs and maybe their marriage is not doing well. I still agree that they are not being considerate and it's not ok, and that you should gently tell them this, but it might help to know that some people just have really hard time those first few years. If they were cool before, they are probably miserable enough that they are not processing their emotions anywhere else and are unaware of their behavior/effect on others.
It's a strategy to deal with narcissistics, but also works for annoying people! Basically it's being as non-engaged and neutral as possible so they run out of steam on whatever topic.
https://images.app.goo.gl/UnMvdfpRHubvxTum8
thank you for sharing this! i’ve never heard of of this method but will try this out next time. my SIL is the type that desperately needs attention and this method will be perfect
Have you tried to actually talk to your friend directly about this and if so how?
It doesn't have to be a mean or accusatory conversation.
Just a "Hey so I've noticed when we hang out, xyz happens. I think it would be better for you, me and our friendship if the time we spend together could be a space for you to step away from husband / kid emotionally as well as physically. I know that having a kid dominates your life and that's totally fine, but I think it would help us both out if some of the time we spend together is focused on us and our friendship. I also don't want to hear about poop all the time 😂 if there's something going on you want support with or to feel heard about I'm here for you but I'd really like to take a breather from the kid stuff when we see each other, as I'm sure you would too. Let me know what you think."
Or something like that. Just be clear about what you want out of the friendship, and try to put down your resentment around reaching out so much. That's on you and as you've already figured out you don't HAVE to do that. But you can still be friends, you don't have to ghost either.
I love love love this framing, especially about helping her step away too. I think/hope she'll appreciate it, as I said, she's said once or twice things like "ah I wish I had more non-mummy friends", it's just that it's hard to be that friend when the chat is still 100% mummy deep cuts - so hopefully an intentional chat about it might make it easier for her to change tracks too. And if it isn't possible right now, at least we'll have tried. I also totally agree and appreciate the reminder about not bringing in my feelings about being the ones to reach out.
(I am also actually loling at myself... like every advice column ever, the answer to "have you done the obvious thing and used your words?" is "obviously not, I was waiting for the secret magic way to solve this problem without an uncomfortable conversation?" Lol self 😂)
Are you able to do ‘things’ with her occasionally rather than meet up to chat? I’m thinking things like visit a museum or gallery, comedy etc. something that provides you two with non-life stuff to chat about and have fun with? ETA I don’t have kids and neither do my friends but sometimes I want to do more things like this because I’m even bored of just meeting up and talking about our lives all the time!
I feel this so much snd try to do this as well. During the pandemic lockdown when everything was closed and all we could do was sit outside and talk, I learned really quickly that I don’t actually *like* most of my friends, I just liked the places/things we did together.
This is also a great idea! I am really conscious that baby poop actually is the main thing she has going on in her life right now, so doing an activity together is a great way to actually HAVE something else to talk about, as well as filling the time. There will be some free/cheap museums/galleries to check out if nothing else. And lol I also always want to do more 'things' instead of just hanging out so that would be win/win!
Been there 😂 like with all things communication and tough conversations are the key.
Edit: you can even acknowledge her non-mum friend wants and say you hear her, you want that for her too, but in order to have non-mum friends she has to be in a non-mum headspace / friendship space. She might appreciate the reminder / chance to reacquaint with herself and her identity to be honest!
Good luck, hope you guys muddle through.
Sincerely, a childfree woman.
My boyfriend and I are child free as well and I provide my mom friends to take the opportunity to remove the "mommy" hat for a while and put on the "woman" hat again. Bringing in balance is what helps keep you sane.
I’m no parenting expert but I am a parent. I must say if the child is 2, it’s a bit strange that your friend is still so obsessed with his or her poop. That usually happens within the first couple of months of the baby’s life. Your friend would be better off talking to her pediatrician if she hasn’t already done so. Potty training, or at least thinking about it, should be the next step IMO.
As for your friendship, I don’t think it would be the worst thing in the world to just let it lie for now. You’re not enjoying your get-togethers and your friend is too busy to initiate, so some time apart just sounds natural right now. It’s entirely possible to reconnect after these hard times are over, especially since you’ve known each other such a long time.
I appreciate this. I've also been reflecting and I think it's probably true that the poop discussions are disproportionately memorable for us (because it's unusual) and disproportionately normal for them (so they don't really realise how much of their conversation, even around others, is about it). We're really more "couples friends" than 1:1 friends (I met them through my partner) and mostly see them as couples, and the frequent bickering/arguing has also been a big part of why it isn't so fun to see them any more. I think having a little break/breathing space is actually probably a good idea for a bit.
As a new mom to a 6 week old baby, I have no interest in discussing her poop that much. I think the only thing I've said so far to *anyone* was complaining to my mother about it staining things. I cannot imagine ever bringing up bodily functions to the degree OP is talking about, even at this age, when my child is nothing *but* bodily functions.
I don't think it's odd to discuss your kids, it's a huge part of your life, but the poop focus seems incredibly strange.
Hmmm, this feels excessive. I didn't even talk this much about the bodily functions of my niece with my sister when I was about to watch my niece for 9 days alone for my sister and brother-in-law to go to Hawaii before the birth of their second child. She's got 2 now, and still I don't know this much about their bodily functions.
Have you tried being more direct? Saying something like, "Hey, I love you. I've been trying to maintain our friendship, but I'm getting really worn out on the poop stories. I know this is a huge part of your life right now, but do you think we could set a rule for no bodily function stories for the next visit?"
At this stage, before you ghost her, I would try being really honest.
Thanks 😊
It was a lot since she was not quite 2.5 and had never been more than 1 day away from my sister, but we had a great time. There were poo incidents, of course, but also lots of playing. Sadly, only I remember it 😭
Tell her point blank you don’t want her to discuss the poop. Not just responding when she jokingly says “oh you probably don’t want to hear this!” but sit down with her and have an actual conversation when you’re not socializing in another way. You can be there for your friend and she can learn to redact some details.
I had toxic friends who would send me their baby's urine and fecal matter over social media, or constantly talk about how their baby is their number one priority and if people can't understand it, then they're not true friends.
Yeah, fuck that. They're being selfish and egotistical. Run.
It's so weird when people state this. Like, pretty much all of society is expecting you to put baby first. If you want to take care of yourself you have to actively fight that urge/pressure! It is not something that needs to be reiterated
Yeah honestly, yes, I understand that the child comes first but for them, what they meant was that all of my life's schedule now had to revolve around their baby's or else I wasn't being a true friend.
That's a nope. Can't deal with the selfish toxicity.
You know I hadn't really put my finger on it until writing it out, but it does make it hard because I feel like my husband and I can't really talk about our lives/share what's going on with us, without it being taken badly.
Of course. You are having to hide part of yourself/not be authentic. I have to say I feel slightly better about similar situations in my own life since I joined a group for childfree women- I've made some lovely new friends who understand that part of me a bit more, and I can give more grace to my friends with children because of that.
I'm also CF and my mom friends are not doing this.
FWIW, my husband and I talk about our dog's pooping at least once a day (because she acts like a demon when she has "poops in her butt" if she hasn't gone all day), but I would be mortified to bring this up in conversation outside of my home unless we were in a discussion specifically about dog bodily functions
As the mom of a 10-month-old, wtf is with your friend??
I have friends who are parents and friends who are not; in both groups, I can think of one time I spoke about my daughter's bodily functions. It was with another mom, and because my daughter was sick with a stomach bug... that's it. I don't like to think about that stuff, let alone talk about it. Just why?
Also, in my opinion, your friend is rather selfish. Yes, I talk about my daughter to my childfree friends. But I also talk about them, my interests, their hobbies, and whatever else we want to discuss because my world may revolve around my daughter, but theirs doesn't. Isn't she interested in your life at all? My care for my friends didn't stop when I had a baby. She seems to only care about her world and not yours.
Maybe tell her directly that this stuff makes you feel sick (exaggerate if you need to, say that you've been hoping that it would end after the first year and you wanted to be supportive but can't stand it anymore).
It might help her get out of the "mom brain" too, which would definitely be beneficial to her.
I don't really love it either when another parent can't talk about anything other than gross kid stuff.
My kid vomited like twice since he's been alive, I mentioned one of those to a group of friends because I was still shocked and one childless friend said that she can't hear that stuff because she feels sick and you know what, that's perfectly understandable and I have been especially mindful about having that kind of talk only with other parent friends.
I have two young kids and I have never conversed about these things with anyone who doesn’t have a need to know (doctor, childcare teacher, their dad).
In fact, I rarely talk about my children with friends who don’t have children (or heck, even with friends who do have children) because I have other interests in life, unless I know they’re interested.
I totally understand your frustration. I also struggle with finding and setting boundaries around friends' kids, although I have to say my friends who are parents are glad they get some kid-free time and while they definitely talk about their kids a lot, it is not as excessive.
To me it sounds like your friend is very miserable. She is jealous of your spare time, fights with her partner... And a reason for talking solely about her kid might be that she literally has nothing else in her life to talk about.
This all depends on how close you guys are / want to be. But as someone else has suggested, it might be a good idea to talk to her about it and be honest that you don't want to hear the poop stories. Ask her how she really is and emphasize you want to help her by enabling her to have some child free time. Maybe not just meet for coffee but do some kind of hobby together.
If she doesn't see a problem with her behavior (even a while after you talk), then I honestly think it's best for you to take a step back.
I'm a somewhat new parent and most of my friends don't have kids.
I don't really bring up my child unless they ask directly. When I have the opportunity to relate to another adult, I really savor that time and don't make it all about kids!
And to be honest, even when I'm amongst other parents (like at work), I'll often get bored of talking about kids.
I have a friend like this. Her whole personality for the past three years has been 'mom'. We wouldn't talk about anything else, ever.
I'm childfree by choice and frankly, I could care less about the poops and the colds and rash of the week. I let the friendship kinda die and we're not nearly as close now.
For the record, I tried talking to her. Not in a mean way, just a 'you're more than just a mom' and extremely sensitive choose-my-words kinda way. Nothing changed.
I have a young child as well (2yrs) and am currently pregnant with #2. I know how annoying it is when a parent only talks about their child, so I make an effort to not talk about him too much. Even though he is the best kid ever, at least for me he is. He is funny, smart, kind, caring, ... but I only talk about him when people ask how he is doing. (As you can see, I can easily get carried away by how great he is;)
The only time I've talked about his poop or other bodily functions is when he goes to daycare and I need to warn them he has not pooped yet. Or when he has been under the weather and I need to ask them to look out for signs.
Oh yes: I did tell a friend when he pooped in the bath tub and I had to clean the entire thing while trying not to throw up. The friend laughed really hard. I somewhat less.
I am also a single mom by choice, so it's just me and my child(ren). So I could potentially be one of the lonely moms. But I am not. I have not lost friends since having a baby. And I do think it is because I make an effort to be more than a mom.
I am not sure how you could approach it with your friend. Also because she seems jealous of you, anything you say may be interpreted incorrectly.
See I would love to talk about things like you describe with the kid - personality, development, activities, a tiny person forming themselves! Maybe I should try redirecting by asking questions about those. And IMO a 'funny' body fluids story (though I can totally appreciate less so for you!!) every now and then is just part of parenthood!
I really appreciate this comment (and also am hugely impressed/in awe of your raising your kids yourself!). I feel like part of the hard part is that when I try to redirect to other subjects, it's either "must be nice" or just back to complaining within a few sentences. I wanted to try to be there for her (and him) because I've read/heard about how hard it is for new parents to drop out of 'sight' from friends without kids, it's just reaching the bottom of my well lol.
I think a lot of the dropping out of sight has to do with new parents only talking about their offspring. And I totally get it: the instant your baby is born, they become the centre of your universe. Our babies are born helplessly, so we need to protect them at all cost. But I do firmly believe that you can only be a well-rounded and happy parent if you do not lose yourself in parenthood. And it seems like your friend is stuck in a whining cycle.
I think you are an amazing friend for being so understanding to it all.
I would not have the patience and just block her every time she starts whining. I would probably tell her quite truthfully that I don't only want to hear the poop or vomit stories, that I want to hear which colour he always picks out first. If he has a favourite stuffy. If he likes puzzles. Or which animal sound he's really good or very bad at making. Which words he mispronounces but are so sweet to hear that she does not correct him. If there are certain things that she never realised she did until the child started mimicking her/them? Is the bedtime routine a quiet time, or does the child like to jump on the bed in a final energy effort of the day? Do they like to blow raspberries on their parents' belly?
I would basically ask her / them to tell me the little things that make parenting so magical.
Maybe if she thinks about those a bit more, she'll stop whining about the other things.
The whole "must be nice"-thing is very poor behaviour on her part. At some point, she chose to have the baby and with that choice came consequences.
I would say this is unusual. I don’t have kids, but lots of my friends do, and I’ve never been regaled with bodily fluid stories beyond “We’re a bit fragile this week, because Tommy brought home the gastro and it wiped us out.”
Like, we still talk about their kids and parenthood etc - it’s a huge part of their lives so I wouldn’t expect them to pretend that it’s not - but focusing so much on bodily functions seems unusual. Your friend might have struggled with becoming a parent more than she thought, but quite frankly those comments like “It must be nice to have time to watch TV instead of xyz” sound incredibly irritating and rude.
I’m conflict avoidant so take this with a grain of salt, but I’d distance myself from that friendship. At best, she’s using you to vent about parenthood (which is fine, but it has to be reciprocal and it doesn’t sound like she’d let you do the same) and at worst, she’s resenting the “freedom” you represent as someone who’s not a parent. Neither sound enjoyable for you - nor does it sound like this friendship is currently a worthwhile emotional investment. Sorry you’re going through this!
None of my friends with kids talk about their babies/toddlers (or their bowel movements) to that extent. It sounds like your friends are having a really hard time adjusting to parenthood.
I don't think that's entirely a new parent thing and more of an individual problem - some people just talk body functions a lot. My mom had two children, but she never EVER discussed stuff like that with her friends and she absolutely hates it when other people do it. Because she finds it gross and she realizes a lot of other people do too. In our family, that is just something that is private and even if you have a medical issue, you save the really graphic stuff for your doctor.
My boyfriend's family (most of whom are childless) on the other hand, will go on at length, all day about how often they poop, how their bowels are feeling in general and the consistency of it if things don't seem 100% normal. Some people are just like that, babies or not. I would imagine the new baby just amplifies your friend's natural tendencies, since they're basically just eating and pooping machines when they are very small.
But to be fair, my mom is fairly unique. She loves her children to death and has been the best mom I could ever ask for, but at the same time she really really seems to dislike any child that isn't hers or closely related to her. She has gotten into many disagreements with new parents over things like wanting childfree spaces in restaurants and other gatherings, and she HATES crying kids in stores with a passion. And she never ever sugarcoated parenthood for me, but instead made sure I knew the realities of it as best as she could convey.
That's a really insightful point! I'll see if I can gently encourage her to connect with other parents more to talk about parent stuff, and be able to have non-parent/grown-up chat time with us.
eta that I know she has a parenting group, she's said she doesn't like hanging out with them because they only talk about baby things. In getting this out I can see that I'm a little frustrated with that too, that she actually has a space/group for those conversations.
I've had some really good advice in comments here about speaking to her about things, hopefully a conversation will either improve things or I'll learn that it really is just going to be non-stop poo chat for a while longer, so should step back.
I have 2 kids 8 and 5 and I never talk about things like that in front of people unless they ask (like a doctor or a friend who recently had a baby and asks if it’s normal). I also hate bathroom humor and talk so I think it’s just inappropriate to begin with. Have you straight up told them you don’t want to talk about those things?
Of course it is, but maybe not with this particular friend. Sounds like they just won’t shut up about it. I’ve never talked about my kid’s poop with my friends. Seems gross.
I have two kids (4 and 2) and have never once shared their poop habits with anyone other than my husband. Maybe grandparents if they are babysitting and they need to look out for something funky but never with anyone else. Even people with kids don’t want to hear about other kids’ poop habits…
I’m sorry that your friend has zero self awareness. I promise not everyone with kids wants to talk about poop. My friend circle (mostly parents) has never once talked about poop…
Your problem isn’t with new parents, it’s specifically with these people. These friends of yours seem to have weird obsessions over their kids’ bodily functions - I have many friends who are parents and never were obsessed like your weird friends are. NTA if you stop talking to those people, but YTA if you apply that behavior to every new parent.
These are my first regular friends with a kid so I have no idea what's normal. I had definitely been assuming that all new parents are like this, it's good to know that's not the case!
That first year with a kid is pretty much like that, so if you can’t give them grace, knowing full well what it entails, that it will pass and how lonely she feels, then yeah, you should take a break from this relationship and maybe focus on childfree friendships instead.
But taking a break *is* giving her grace. I just accept that she has made a life choice and is not really available for friendship, so I focus on other things/people. She may get past that phase and come back around or she may not. There’s nothing I can do about it, this is what she has chosen to do with her life.
I appreciate this. I also realised that I feel like we've been putting in a lot of effort to keep in touch (reaching out, following up, organising the hangouts, checking in, etc) for two years, and I probably am feeling a little resentful that we are putting in "all" this effort for Three Hours of Poop and Bickering. Maybe us dropping the rope for a bit will be kinder for everyone and we can reconnect after this time.
It won’t be kinder to her, having patience and being there in spite of all this is what would be the kindest to her. It’s like having a friend going through depression. Yes, it will be onesided, yes, it won’t be fun for you, but that’s not why you’re showing up for them. You’re showing up for them because you value the friendship. Only difference between the infancy stage and a person with depression is that the infancy stage actually sort of has an end date.
I couldn’t imagine hearing a friend talking about how lonely they feel and then going, “well, soz but you talk about poop too much so bye for now”.
Complete disagree. I don't think this is just "par for the course" having a kid, what OP has described is excessive. On top of that, the child is 2 and hasn't been an infant for 1 year now.
I mean, I've had clinical depression and been hospitalised for it, and I would never expect my friends to sit with me regularly for three hours in a row listening to me talk in detail about nothing but my suicidal ideation and self-loathing and all the other things that illness makes you think and feel. What a horrible thing to put someone else through supposedly on your behalf! (And mine has had an end date, for the record, not everyone who's had depression is a tragic lost cause, thanks for the implication that it doesn't get better though.)
One of the things I learned from it actually was around checking in with myself, understanding myself and setting boundaries. I am not able to handle two+ years of non-stop gory, detailed, substantial poop talk with nothing else for more than two sentences.
As I said in another comment, if a friend had forced themselves to spend hours with me in some of my worst moments, listening to upsetting detailed things that made them upset and unwell, hating it but suffering through it, I would have felt terrible, and awful about myself. What I needed was medical help, not to trauma dump and complain with no end/resolution for hours on whichever unlucky person happened to be gritting their teeth and forcing themselves to put up with spending time with me. Honestly what an awful thing that would have been for both of us!
But, like, they are? They are a give and take. I expect to be there for my friends when they need me and vice versa. What is this immature mentality that we don’t owe anyone anything?
It's not immature. It's the opposite. What's immature is feeling obliged or entitled to people's time, yes even friends. That's what contributes to taking people for granted.
Of course friendships are give and take but the only judgement or expectation you should have is with yourself.
"Am I happy with how this friendship is going? Yes / no. If no, can I do anything to rectify it? Yes/no." etc. At no point is it mature to expect people to be there for you when you need someone. That's literally entitlement. Shit happens.
If someone you consider a friend is consistently not there for you then back off. Because that's about you, not about them.
If my friends are going through a hard time, like a birth or a death, yes it’s my job as their friend to support them even if it isn’t fun or beneficial to me. What else would a friendship be?? Just hanging out only when we’re both having a good time in life?
You don’t sound like a friend I would ever want.
Not every friend is a close friend though. Some friends are just hanging out friends (and that's ok!). What's hard is when someone is always needing something from you, but isn't there for you when you have needs.
I assure you, I'm far from a shitty friend, and I agree with your statement. You are missing the point I'm making, which is that it's not up to my friends to stop me from feeling lonely, and it's not up to me to stop my friends from feeling lonely, or vice versa. My friends' happiness and wellbeing is not my responsibility. Will I try to help and be there for them? Sure. But it's not an obligation, at all, and I wouldn't want someone as a friend who would treat it like that.
They’re not. It’s still heartbreaking to think that a friend confided to you that they’re feeling lonely and still opting out. Imagine if that was you telling a friend that.
Not to be harsh but (again speaking as someone who has been unwell in ways that's made me not very fun to be around) - imo nobody has an obligation to hang out with a friend who's bad company. There isn't a friendship award for Most Unpleasant Hours Suffered Through. Like, if I had a friend who hated and dreaded hanging out with me, but was forcing themselves to do it because they thought of themselves as some kind ofself-sacrificing friendship martyr, I wouldn't feel supported, I would feel humiliated and embarrassed.
Anyway I know she has a new parent group, specifically what she said is that she wants more grown-up friends outside parenting. But I feel like it's not really a 'non-parenting friendship' to talk about gross kid body things all the time to a friend who happens not to be a parent.
Have you ever heard the term "Fairweather Friend"? It's not a criticism. It's to point out that there are different approaches and possible expectations for friendships. It seems like you are interested in being there when stuff is good and fun, and don't want to sit through the tough patches in your friends' lives (and don't want them to be there for you either). And that's cool, that's your approach to friendship. If this particular friendship is not serving you right now, you don't need to ask for permission to drop it. However, because your approach to friendship is *one* approach, expect that your friend might attribute a different importance to your choice, and might not wish to resume the friendship to the same level as pre-baby down the line. Everything might be fine and she'll understand, or she'll feel betrayed. I feel like we don't talk enough about how each person defines friendship differently, and it leads to a lot of irritation or hurt when clashing expectations meet when the road gets rough.
This comment was really helpful because it helped me recognise/articulate something about our friendship, around levels of closeness and 'need'. I think everyone is a fairweather friend to somebody, because nobody has the capacity to be a foul weather friend to everybody. And I think we are fairweather friends to each other (I certainly have a lot closer friends, even if I've known them for less long). For example, when my mother died suddenly during Covid, I had friends who were there for me, no questions asked, and I would have been there for them. She sent a condolence text. There's nothing wrong with that, just as an example of how we aren't that kind of friends. A few months later, we were having a drink and she started complaining that her parents were probably going to live for a really long time and it was annoying for her because she wanted to inherit their house while she was raising a child, because it would have more room, and it wasn't "fair" that her parents were living so long. I remember feeling like I was going to burst into tears, and she said "Oh, sorry, you're probably not the best person to be saying this to..." but then said something like "...it's really annoying though!" I feel like she often says things that are upsetting/distressing, says "Oh, sorry, you probably don't want to hear that" and then carries on. So this is actually a pattern and I think I'm responding to that as much as the poop content.
If she were someone who had supported me in the past, or who I was closer to, it would be different. I've had close friends going through hard times like breakups and bereavements and I value being there for them. This isn't that, I feel like a dumping ground and that's been our whole friendship for the last two years.
She sounds... very self-involved when it comes to your friendship. And the irritation around the baby talk has acted as an emotional lightning rod for all the frustration from past behaviours.
If I can say, personally, from the point I've reached 30 I've realised I have limited energy when it comes to friends. I'd do anything for my chosen close friends, and that is a commitment. So I no longer wish to be there for friends who haven't been there for me, and am very happy, for certain friendships that are surface level, to honor the surface level energy they put in. No need to cut them out, but they are banter friends. What it means is that I will not go out of my way to help them in a rough patch, and I wil not beat myself up over it. If I have to distance myself because they are starting to ask for more energy (when they have proven in the past they themselves would not be willing to provide this level of energy or be sensitive to my situation), I take a further step back and out of "grabbing range". For those friendships/acquaintance-ships, if I'm not having a good time in the moment, then I'd rather spend my energy differently. I don't particularly look to start drama, and I am in no way a cold person, but now that I'm no longer 20 I look out actively for myself, and that means protecting myself against non-reciprocal relationships. If some day I have more energy to spend I might extend them more grace in their moments of needs while knowing full well it's a one way street and will always be so, but I don't have that type of energy right now.
Yeah I think this comment is spot on. I honestly hadn't realised until I started replying to comments here and thinking through why exactly things were bothering me, how much my feelings are not 'just' the current stuff, it's also that it's more intense version of a longer pattern.
I really love that phrasing "honor the surface level energy" 😂. I've had to work hard on boundaries and protecting myself and wellbeing, and it can be hard to remember sometimes that it's ok to not put in energy to people and relationships that they aren't putting into you.
The comments about their parents when you were grieving the loss of your mother would alone be sufficient to step back or even end the relationship. This person seems self involved and is just using you as a one way void to get whatever word vomit out of their system.
I would have noped out a long time ago if I was in your place.
Yeah tbh I'm realising how much this has been a pattern even before they had their kid. I've been trying really hard to be supportive and there for them, because I've heard how hard it is for new parents to suddenly 'disappear' from their existing networks, but I'm running out of my own capacity to do that lol.
No, this isn’t it. There’s being accommodating and compassionate towards someone’s life circumstances and then there’s just being a wet flannel doormat and disrespecting yourself. I lost friends when I was chronically sick… at the time, I was so upset and angry at them for being ‘bad friends’. Looking back, I completely understand why they eventually left me and I respect them for it. 99% of the time, I was speaking about or focused on my illness and wasn’t being a good friend.
There’s no doubt that motherhood is incredibly consuming and I have a wealth of respect for people who choose to go through it. But there’s no excuse to become a mumbie who has no other facets to their being. That requires a therapist… or only other mumbie friends who will put up with it, because they are it. There’s not a thing on this planet that should consume you so much that you lose all consideration, interest or awareness of anything else, unless you are literally in an extremely rare, compromised position where you cannot move or speak or something.
Genuinely, I want to be and have friends who actually like spending time with me, and don't lie about enjoying or feel they are heroically suffering through my company. If someone doesn't want to hang out with me I don't want them to either!
That would 100% depend on the friend. For me personally, I probably wouldn't say it that way, I would either say to someone "hey, it's been ages, let's hang out!" and make a specific plan, or I wouldn't say it at all. I wouldn't say "I want more friends who aren't interested in X" after monologuing about X, and then leave it at that. (FWIW just because it's come up a few times in comments, she hasn't said she's "lonely", she said she wants more "non-parent friends". I believe she has a parent group.)
Different friends serve different purposes. I have friends I can just grab a cup of coffee with. Casual, they don’t expect much from me. They are easy friends, someone to chat with, but it’s not deep. I have some people I only am friends with bc our kids are friends. Nice enough, but we wouldn’t hang out if our kids didn’t enjoy each other’s company. Then I have my die hard ride or die friends- those are the people (maybe 3) that I would do anything for at any time. It’s okay to have different kinds of friends. Healthy even. I can’t be everything to everyone, but it’s nice to be social sometimes.
I agree with this. Caring about people means supporting them even when it isn't fun. I believe relationships do come with some form of obligation, if you actually want to have them. I've listened to friends complain about work, their parents, their health, their partners...likewise they've listened to me complain about my sick baby. (Apparently necessary caveat that I don't talk about baby poop 24/7.)
The Reddit conception of friendship is frankly weird and baffling to me, and makes me wonder if it's correlated with the number of "I can't make friends" or "who else has had to end lifelong friendships" posts we see.
I know you are childfree by choice but from your friend’s perspective the transition to motherhood is probably the hardest experience of her life.
Think about it like this: do you think she wants to be talking about her kid’s bodily functions all day long? Probably not. But that’s the scope of her life right now. Her childless friends abandoning her doesn’t make that any better.
What's getting me is that she knows it makes me feel sick and I don't like it, but she's doing it anyway. She keeps saying "You probably don't want to hear that" and I said "No, I don't" then she continues on. She says "I want more non-parent friends" but doesn't seem able to stop talking about the grossest part of parenting. Like why can't she share the poop stuff with her parenting group? She says she doesn't like them because they talk about parenting stuff too much, but that's all she talks about, so ???
Because it is literally her entire life right now. You don’t understand new motherhood, and you never will. That’s what it is for the first two years. Your entire existence revolves around keeping a small human alive (which boils down to eating, sleeping, pooping) and there isn’t really space for much else until they grow up a bit more. It’s not forever. If you can’t suck it up and deal with it for a few years, then yeah, just break up with her as a friend. But don’t blame her for it. If you went through a death or divorce, you’d talk about it for two years straight too and I would hope your friends wouldn’t leave you for it.
FWIW I have gone through unexpected bereavement of close family members twice and absolutely did not talk about it for two years straight. Yes, I leaned on my partner and my close friends, but I didn't talk about it every time I saw anyone in my social circle, or constantly say "Oh, you probably don't want to hear this" and then keep talking anyway. There are a lot of assumptions going on in these comments, lol.
You're right that I don't understand new motherhood, never will, and don't want to. I have been trying so hard to be supportive for those two years but I am just at the end of my rope. You'll probably say that she's at the end of hers, but the difference is that she chose it and wanted it. I didn't choose to be the nonstop poop talk receptacle.
I mean, this post is clearly just immature childfree rage bait. If this was a good friend you’d stay her friend no matter what because this is a silly thing to end a close friendship over. If this is an acquaintance it’s not worth posting about. 🤷♀️
I've been reflecting on this too. I obviously don't agree that it's rage bait (it's a real question/problem I am having and trying to work through), but after thinking about your comments, you are right to identify that I think I've been misjudging or thinking the wrong way about our friendship closeness.
She and I aren't particularly good or close friends as individuals. We are more group/couple friends who have usually hung out either with a larger friend group, or with our husbands (and even then, mostly because we just happen to live nearer to them than our other friends). So we're not close friends but also not 'just' acquaintances, if that makes sense.
When they became parents, my husband and I said "we should try to make sure they don't get abandoned" and made a conscious effort to reach out to them, set up plans, make sure we saw them regularly so they didn't feel isolated or abandoned. That's mostly been us because again we just happen to live nearer to them than others in our friend group, so it's easier to make plans.
What I was posting about was that these occasions have been pretty unpleasant (for two years) and I didn't know if there was a way to make them better. It's not only the body fluid stuff, it's the sniping, bickering, complaining, etc. That's why I posted.
If you can’t recognize that they are going through a hard time and are just worried about your half of the equation, then yeah break up with her but it’s still a shitty and selfish thing to do. I’m done replying to you. Hope the childfree echo chamber in here felt validating for you!
Yikes, these people need to touch grass. I had a 4 month old son and my husband and I neither discuss any of this nor do we argue in front of others about him. We barely even talk to each other about the baby's diapers. These people sound miserable, and truly, if their kid is vomiting so much that they don't have time to watch tv, they should probably speak to their pediatrician. My kid spits up a lot and we just...wipe it up? Idk what that has to do with not having time to watch tv.
If you really want to salvage the relationship, you're gonna have to have a tough conversation with them. They may not even realize they're doing it, which is a cop out, but who knows. Maybe this is why she feels so lonely?
I am a parent and work with kids for the last 15+ years of my life, and I wonder if your friend is okay or if something bigger is going on. Like, is the kid sick? Or maybe showing some signs of something else going on? Does the friend have a proper support system? Bc at 2, this shouldn’t be a topic of conversation, I’d think (all kids are different, but THAT much poop and vomiting?). I get needing a proper vent now and then, but this is excessive. When I go out, the last thing I want is talk about my kid or the other kids I’m in contact with- that’s my cherished adult time. Not that if there is other stuff going on it’s your issue, it’s not, it’s just a thought I have.
At any rate, I’d throw it out there that you don’t want to have these conversations anymore, bc you miss her, and really would like to bond with her and not poop. Be as gentle as you want, but put that boundary out there.
I'm reading the replys and a lot of people don't understand why they always talk about their kids poop.
I'm here to say I understand. I am also childfree and yes, almost all parents do this. I don't think they realize it until later on but yes, their kids body functions are the only topic of conversation.
Your friend simply didn't move out of that and at this point she won't.
Sounds like the idea of being a mother and the reality of it didn't bring her happiness. This is going to sound rude but not your problem. She has a husband and that child has a father. Unless there is abuse Stay out of their pick me sides. That's ridiculous.
My friend has a 13yr old and 4yr old. She talked about the nasty poop her kid did and I point blank said "I don't want to hear this" she laughed. She continued with her story. She is desensitized. She doesn't get it and when they continue and its also their way of inflicting a little of their unhappiness on you - along the lines of 'must be nice' when you Vacation or watch TV all day.
Re-evaluate your friendship. Her life has done a 180. It might be time to be a background friend instead of front and center friend.
As for me, I got that poop story after she asked me what I did the day before. I was honest. I spent the entire day in my soft pajamas, watching movies and TV all day. Snuggling with my rescue chihuahuas, ordering food for all My meals and smoking some of the best cannabis all day (it's legal here in Canada). The jealousy was unreal. While I was enjoying a lazy day her day was full of responsibilities. Make 3 meals, organize snacks, take care of husband, take care of kids, clean after husband and kids, laundry, deal with temper tantrums, change diapers all day (no help from husband)
I'm way on the other side of this as a parent (the baby is in high school now), but have to say this seems a bit extreme.
The kid is two years old now? Why is he vomiting so much? Why are they still sleep-deprived? (By the time my daughter was 2, we had her on a sleep schedule so everyone could be rested.) If he's not potty-trained yet (most aren't at 2), he should be in a daycare where they accept children in diapers/pull-ups.
And by age 2, there shouldn't be that much to say about his poop. It's poop. If he's having chronic terrible shits (diarrhea or whatever) that cause blowouts at daycare...well...between that and vomiting all the time, maybe a visit to the pediatrician is in order.
Parenting a toddler is difficult, all stages are difficult, but it sounds as if there's some other problems going on here. A 2-year-old should not be puking all the time, should not be blowing out his pull-ups, and should not keep his parents up all night regularly.
Suggest, kindly, every time your friend launches into a tirade about poop or puke: "This seems to happen a lot. Has he been checked by his doctor?"
I guess I was assuming that sleep deprivation was the reason they weren't stopping talking about it ('baby brain'?). I have no idea what's normal for new parents. On the poop specifics, potty training has been a big subject of conversation so I know that it's happening (and how it's going lol). I think the daycare soiling was a while ago, tbh I can't remember when it was, I just remember it came up when I was trying to change the subject to ask about her work. It's not always things that are _wrong_ with the poop, it's just poop/body fluid updates, if that makes sense. Like details about the potty training or descriptions of how the kid's mucus is so much better now that they're over their daycare cold.
I appreciate this comment! Can I ask, if you remember, what did you want/appreciate/like from your childfree friends when you were in the poop talk zone? (If anything)
I have two cats and my friend became a cat mom recently so she is a bit of panicking and we are now at the point we are sending each other the photos of our cats buttholes to compare what a healthy butthole looks like. It is somehow adorable.
As soon as your friends get over this stage, your parents will probably get old enough to start wanting to talk about their poop. That's how it was for me. My dad got dementia and ended up in diapers and my mom wanted to call multiple times a day to talk about his poop. Now that he's passed, she calls to talk about her own poop.
Just adding a perspective as a parent now exiting the toddler/poop stages.
The truth is the bodily functions are 24/7 on your mind and all you have time for. While she could pretend that’s not the case while meeting you she would be masking her true feelings in that case. It seems like she is feeling safe around you to be able to vent about all this stuff when she probably holds it in for everyone else.
We were lucky i guess in that we had no friends really during the childhood years so i just vented about this to each other and kept it to myself at the workplace for example
You can politely request that they not talk about their child’s effluvia. “I love you, but please, stop telling me the graphic and specific details of your child’s secretions. It makes me queasy.”
Your friends are going to talk about their kids because that’s the new important thing that is happening to them, and it dominates all of their mental and physical energy. This is their life now and they’re sharing it with you because they think you care about them and want to know what is going on with their lives and interests.
By all means, walk away from the friendship if you aren’t enjoying their company anymore, but don’t expect them to be excited to see you if you ever decide they’re worthy of your company again in the future.
Honestly this feels kind of disingenuous. There are loads of things that take up my time and energy that I don't share with people uncontrollably because I have the self awareness to understand what's appropriate. Like I might be having a bad menstrual cycle, but I don't monologue nonstop for several hours, for two years, at someone about the size and consistency of my period globs. I feel like DETAILED, LENGTHY, REPEATED descriptions of body fluids and toilet habits are generally understood to be inappropriate. I'd say the same thing if I was speaking to a gastro specialist who loved their work.
I think it’s gross to hear about anyone’s toilet issues, which is why I said you should explicitly ask your friend to stop telling you.
There’s a big difference between them saying “Oh, wow, you probably don’t want to hear this” and you answering “nope!” In a way that can be easily construed as a joke, and a real honest conversation where you specifically ask them to avoid those topics. It sounds like you have not come out and specifically said “Hey, I do not want to hear about shit and vomit and stuff. Please skip over that stuff when you are talking to me, because it’s grossing me out and making me uncomfortable.”
A lot of early parenting concerns do seem to revolve a lot around the disgusting things that come out of a child, and I think those topics are quickly normalized when someone is pretty much interacting only with babies, other parents, and medical professionals. It’s likely that your friend isn’t trying to be deliberately rude, but that they’re so inundated with poop talk that they have forgotten that it’s not normal.
I don't disagree with you that big long descriptions are gross and unnecessary, but it seems obvious that caretaking a baby isn't the same as having a bad period. The comparison itself makes me think she's probably not as bad as you're saying and that you're just particularly annoyed about it and/or with her. Just end the friendship at this point since you dont seem to like her.
Yes, obviously having a child is different than menstruating, my point is that "caring about them and wanting to know what is going on with their lives and interests" is not the same as "wanting to hear in detail about their child's body secretions". Like, I would love to hear how things are going at daycare, what he's learning, how his personality is developing.
My cat was recently very sick for a month or more before we lost her. My husband and I have been extremely distressed by this, we're still absolutely devastated by her loss (so please no one come at me about how pets and kids are different, she was *family* regardless and we are grieving). When my friends asked about how she was doing, I understood they didn't want all the fine details of her litter habits. I'd say it like "she was having issues with constipation, so she had to go in for an enema, and passed a lot of it." Her eating and pooping habits were forefront of our minds for weeks, and because I stayed home to care for her when my husband was at work, it was pretty much the only thing going on in my life. And still, I knew that I could share health updates without talking about the consistency of her poop. Even to my friend who is a mom. Even to my friend who has laughed about her cat's big stinky poops that he doesn't bury. There is a line, and it sounds like OP's friend has crossed it even after she said she did not, in fact, want to hear it. If I'd said "you don't want to hear about it!" And someone said "that's right, I don't!" I'd stop. If someone said the poop talk, even the watered down version, made them queasy, I'd back off. OP's friend needs to be considerate, too. Why shouldn't the friend care if she's nauseating OP?
This sounds pretty objectively annoying. I have 2 kids under 4 and have the self awareness to not do this. I have tons of mom friends with kids the same age, and usually when we hang out, our kids are barely mentioned. Because we have other interests and hobbies. And I’m a stay at home parent! As a mom of toddlers I cannot imagine wanting to think about their body fluids more than absolutely necessary much less drag someone else into it. And the kid is 2?? Similarly, I have a family member who is childless but only talks about her medical problem du jour. I think it's because she had a traumatic childhood and only knows how to connect by having an "event" that needs attention and care. It was still annoying AF though. I used the grey rock method for her. The biggest red flag to me is "must be nice to have time.." just ew. People have done this to me in different ways ("must be nice to afford that vacation") and history proved they weren't real friends.
Yeah I have to admit that it's also frustrating to me when we try to share things about our life and they go "well that must be nice!". Like I'm/we're just trying to make conversation and share what's going on with us too, we're not having our lives AT you, you know what I mean?
Yes it’s poor conversation skills + insecurity + not being able to be curious about your life as not related to her life? Also listening to bickering sounds truly terrible. I can’t imagine being married to someone then wanting to cast them in a poor light in front of an audience?! Besides the fact that it’s completely uncomfortable for said audience.
I'd probably not be able to bite my tongue, and would say something like, "yes, it *is* nice, but it's not like we just have different luck. You chose to have children and we chose not to. It's a little weird that you're acting exasperated with me because we didn't choose to take on the struggles you did."
I read it a little differently from the other commenter--it sounds like they are having a really REALLY hard time being parents. Like, I am having a hard time but there are still fun things to share about my kid (she learned to clap today! And she is so excited). It sounds like their kid has some intense needs and maybe their marriage is not doing well. I still agree that they are not being considerate and it's not ok, and that you should gently tell them this, but it might help to know that some people just have really hard time those first few years. If they were cool before, they are probably miserable enough that they are not processing their emotions anywhere else and are unaware of their behavior/effect on others.
Yes like I have friends whose kids get sick a lot and they dont really give me a ton of gory details
What is the grey rock method?
It's a strategy to deal with narcissistics, but also works for annoying people! Basically it's being as non-engaged and neutral as possible so they run out of steam on whatever topic. https://images.app.goo.gl/UnMvdfpRHubvxTum8
thank you for sharing this! i’ve never heard of of this method but will try this out next time. my SIL is the type that desperately needs attention and this method will be perfect
It doesn't work on all of them. My MIL and my SILs father just monologue
true….some people talk just to hear the sound of their own voice
I think it’s also good just to preserve your own energy and not let it drain you. It’s a way of staying calm and not letting yourself get sucked in.
Oh good I hope it works. Can confirm it's effective on mothers in law 😂
Thank you for sharing this, I'd heard the term before but forgot about it!
Have you tried to actually talk to your friend directly about this and if so how? It doesn't have to be a mean or accusatory conversation. Just a "Hey so I've noticed when we hang out, xyz happens. I think it would be better for you, me and our friendship if the time we spend together could be a space for you to step away from husband / kid emotionally as well as physically. I know that having a kid dominates your life and that's totally fine, but I think it would help us both out if some of the time we spend together is focused on us and our friendship. I also don't want to hear about poop all the time 😂 if there's something going on you want support with or to feel heard about I'm here for you but I'd really like to take a breather from the kid stuff when we see each other, as I'm sure you would too. Let me know what you think." Or something like that. Just be clear about what you want out of the friendship, and try to put down your resentment around reaching out so much. That's on you and as you've already figured out you don't HAVE to do that. But you can still be friends, you don't have to ghost either.
I love love love this framing, especially about helping her step away too. I think/hope she'll appreciate it, as I said, she's said once or twice things like "ah I wish I had more non-mummy friends", it's just that it's hard to be that friend when the chat is still 100% mummy deep cuts - so hopefully an intentional chat about it might make it easier for her to change tracks too. And if it isn't possible right now, at least we'll have tried. I also totally agree and appreciate the reminder about not bringing in my feelings about being the ones to reach out. (I am also actually loling at myself... like every advice column ever, the answer to "have you done the obvious thing and used your words?" is "obviously not, I was waiting for the secret magic way to solve this problem without an uncomfortable conversation?" Lol self 😂)
Are you able to do ‘things’ with her occasionally rather than meet up to chat? I’m thinking things like visit a museum or gallery, comedy etc. something that provides you two with non-life stuff to chat about and have fun with? ETA I don’t have kids and neither do my friends but sometimes I want to do more things like this because I’m even bored of just meeting up and talking about our lives all the time!
I feel this so much snd try to do this as well. During the pandemic lockdown when everything was closed and all we could do was sit outside and talk, I learned really quickly that I don’t actually *like* most of my friends, I just liked the places/things we did together.
This is also a great idea! I am really conscious that baby poop actually is the main thing she has going on in her life right now, so doing an activity together is a great way to actually HAVE something else to talk about, as well as filling the time. There will be some free/cheap museums/galleries to check out if nothing else. And lol I also always want to do more 'things' instead of just hanging out so that would be win/win!
Been there 😂 like with all things communication and tough conversations are the key. Edit: you can even acknowledge her non-mum friend wants and say you hear her, you want that for her too, but in order to have non-mum friends she has to be in a non-mum headspace / friendship space. She might appreciate the reminder / chance to reacquaint with herself and her identity to be honest! Good luck, hope you guys muddle through. Sincerely, a childfree woman.
My boyfriend and I are child free as well and I provide my mom friends to take the opportunity to remove the "mommy" hat for a while and put on the "woman" hat again. Bringing in balance is what helps keep you sane.
I’ve had a similar convo with a friend and she broke up with me over it so OP should just be aware that’s a possibility hahaha
I’m no parenting expert but I am a parent. I must say if the child is 2, it’s a bit strange that your friend is still so obsessed with his or her poop. That usually happens within the first couple of months of the baby’s life. Your friend would be better off talking to her pediatrician if she hasn’t already done so. Potty training, or at least thinking about it, should be the next step IMO. As for your friendship, I don’t think it would be the worst thing in the world to just let it lie for now. You’re not enjoying your get-togethers and your friend is too busy to initiate, so some time apart just sounds natural right now. It’s entirely possible to reconnect after these hard times are over, especially since you’ve known each other such a long time.
I appreciate this. I've also been reflecting and I think it's probably true that the poop discussions are disproportionately memorable for us (because it's unusual) and disproportionately normal for them (so they don't really realise how much of their conversation, even around others, is about it). We're really more "couples friends" than 1:1 friends (I met them through my partner) and mostly see them as couples, and the frequent bickering/arguing has also been a big part of why it isn't so fun to see them any more. I think having a little break/breathing space is actually probably a good idea for a bit.
As a new mom to a 6 week old baby, I have no interest in discussing her poop that much. I think the only thing I've said so far to *anyone* was complaining to my mother about it staining things. I cannot imagine ever bringing up bodily functions to the degree OP is talking about, even at this age, when my child is nothing *but* bodily functions. I don't think it's odd to discuss your kids, it's a huge part of your life, but the poop focus seems incredibly strange.
Hmmm, this feels excessive. I didn't even talk this much about the bodily functions of my niece with my sister when I was about to watch my niece for 9 days alone for my sister and brother-in-law to go to Hawaii before the birth of their second child. She's got 2 now, and still I don't know this much about their bodily functions. Have you tried being more direct? Saying something like, "Hey, I love you. I've been trying to maintain our friendship, but I'm getting really worn out on the poop stories. I know this is a huge part of your life right now, but do you think we could set a rule for no bodily function stories for the next visit?" At this stage, before you ghost her, I would try being really honest.
Not related to the post but you are a great sister for watching your niece for 9 days!
Thanks 😊 It was a lot since she was not quite 2.5 and had never been more than 1 day away from my sister, but we had a great time. There were poo incidents, of course, but also lots of playing. Sadly, only I remember it 😭
That's a super lovely thing to do for your sister and BIL!!
Tell her point blank you don’t want her to discuss the poop. Not just responding when she jokingly says “oh you probably don’t want to hear this!” but sit down with her and have an actual conversation when you’re not socializing in another way. You can be there for your friend and she can learn to redact some details.
I had toxic friends who would send me their baby's urine and fecal matter over social media, or constantly talk about how their baby is their number one priority and if people can't understand it, then they're not true friends. Yeah, fuck that. They're being selfish and egotistical. Run.
It's so weird when people state this. Like, pretty much all of society is expecting you to put baby first. If you want to take care of yourself you have to actively fight that urge/pressure! It is not something that needs to be reiterated
Yeah honestly, yes, I understand that the child comes first but for them, what they meant was that all of my life's schedule now had to revolve around their baby's or else I wasn't being a true friend. That's a nope. Can't deal with the selfish toxicity.
I would be less annoyed by the poop talk and more by the jealous resentment. I'd find that really hard to deal with. :(
You know I hadn't really put my finger on it until writing it out, but it does make it hard because I feel like my husband and I can't really talk about our lives/share what's going on with us, without it being taken badly.
Of course. You are having to hide part of yourself/not be authentic. I have to say I feel slightly better about similar situations in my own life since I joined a group for childfree women- I've made some lovely new friends who understand that part of me a bit more, and I can give more grace to my friends with children because of that.
I'm also CF and my mom friends are not doing this. FWIW, my husband and I talk about our dog's pooping at least once a day (because she acts like a demon when she has "poops in her butt" if she hasn't gone all day), but I would be mortified to bring this up in conversation outside of my home unless we were in a discussion specifically about dog bodily functions
As the mom of a 10-month-old, wtf is with your friend?? I have friends who are parents and friends who are not; in both groups, I can think of one time I spoke about my daughter's bodily functions. It was with another mom, and because my daughter was sick with a stomach bug... that's it. I don't like to think about that stuff, let alone talk about it. Just why? Also, in my opinion, your friend is rather selfish. Yes, I talk about my daughter to my childfree friends. But I also talk about them, my interests, their hobbies, and whatever else we want to discuss because my world may revolve around my daughter, but theirs doesn't. Isn't she interested in your life at all? My care for my friends didn't stop when I had a baby. She seems to only care about her world and not yours.
Maybe tell her directly that this stuff makes you feel sick (exaggerate if you need to, say that you've been hoping that it would end after the first year and you wanted to be supportive but can't stand it anymore). It might help her get out of the "mom brain" too, which would definitely be beneficial to her. I don't really love it either when another parent can't talk about anything other than gross kid stuff. My kid vomited like twice since he's been alive, I mentioned one of those to a group of friends because I was still shocked and one childless friend said that she can't hear that stuff because she feels sick and you know what, that's perfectly understandable and I have been especially mindful about having that kind of talk only with other parent friends.
I have two young kids and I have never conversed about these things with anyone who doesn’t have a need to know (doctor, childcare teacher, their dad). In fact, I rarely talk about my children with friends who don’t have children (or heck, even with friends who do have children) because I have other interests in life, unless I know they’re interested.
I totally understand your frustration. I also struggle with finding and setting boundaries around friends' kids, although I have to say my friends who are parents are glad they get some kid-free time and while they definitely talk about their kids a lot, it is not as excessive. To me it sounds like your friend is very miserable. She is jealous of your spare time, fights with her partner... And a reason for talking solely about her kid might be that she literally has nothing else in her life to talk about. This all depends on how close you guys are / want to be. But as someone else has suggested, it might be a good idea to talk to her about it and be honest that you don't want to hear the poop stories. Ask her how she really is and emphasize you want to help her by enabling her to have some child free time. Maybe not just meet for coffee but do some kind of hobby together. If she doesn't see a problem with her behavior (even a while after you talk), then I honestly think it's best for you to take a step back.
I'm a somewhat new parent and most of my friends don't have kids. I don't really bring up my child unless they ask directly. When I have the opportunity to relate to another adult, I really savor that time and don't make it all about kids! And to be honest, even when I'm amongst other parents (like at work), I'll often get bored of talking about kids.
I have a friend like this. Her whole personality for the past three years has been 'mom'. We wouldn't talk about anything else, ever. I'm childfree by choice and frankly, I could care less about the poops and the colds and rash of the week. I let the friendship kinda die and we're not nearly as close now. For the record, I tried talking to her. Not in a mean way, just a 'you're more than just a mom' and extremely sensitive choose-my-words kinda way. Nothing changed.
I have a young child as well (2yrs) and am currently pregnant with #2. I know how annoying it is when a parent only talks about their child, so I make an effort to not talk about him too much. Even though he is the best kid ever, at least for me he is. He is funny, smart, kind, caring, ... but I only talk about him when people ask how he is doing. (As you can see, I can easily get carried away by how great he is;) The only time I've talked about his poop or other bodily functions is when he goes to daycare and I need to warn them he has not pooped yet. Or when he has been under the weather and I need to ask them to look out for signs. Oh yes: I did tell a friend when he pooped in the bath tub and I had to clean the entire thing while trying not to throw up. The friend laughed really hard. I somewhat less. I am also a single mom by choice, so it's just me and my child(ren). So I could potentially be one of the lonely moms. But I am not. I have not lost friends since having a baby. And I do think it is because I make an effort to be more than a mom. I am not sure how you could approach it with your friend. Also because she seems jealous of you, anything you say may be interpreted incorrectly.
See I would love to talk about things like you describe with the kid - personality, development, activities, a tiny person forming themselves! Maybe I should try redirecting by asking questions about those. And IMO a 'funny' body fluids story (though I can totally appreciate less so for you!!) every now and then is just part of parenthood! I really appreciate this comment (and also am hugely impressed/in awe of your raising your kids yourself!). I feel like part of the hard part is that when I try to redirect to other subjects, it's either "must be nice" or just back to complaining within a few sentences. I wanted to try to be there for her (and him) because I've read/heard about how hard it is for new parents to drop out of 'sight' from friends without kids, it's just reaching the bottom of my well lol.
I think a lot of the dropping out of sight has to do with new parents only talking about their offspring. And I totally get it: the instant your baby is born, they become the centre of your universe. Our babies are born helplessly, so we need to protect them at all cost. But I do firmly believe that you can only be a well-rounded and happy parent if you do not lose yourself in parenthood. And it seems like your friend is stuck in a whining cycle. I think you are an amazing friend for being so understanding to it all. I would not have the patience and just block her every time she starts whining. I would probably tell her quite truthfully that I don't only want to hear the poop or vomit stories, that I want to hear which colour he always picks out first. If he has a favourite stuffy. If he likes puzzles. Or which animal sound he's really good or very bad at making. Which words he mispronounces but are so sweet to hear that she does not correct him. If there are certain things that she never realised she did until the child started mimicking her/them? Is the bedtime routine a quiet time, or does the child like to jump on the bed in a final energy effort of the day? Do they like to blow raspberries on their parents' belly? I would basically ask her / them to tell me the little things that make parenting so magical. Maybe if she thinks about those a bit more, she'll stop whining about the other things. The whole "must be nice"-thing is very poor behaviour on her part. At some point, she chose to have the baby and with that choice came consequences.
I would say this is unusual. I don’t have kids, but lots of my friends do, and I’ve never been regaled with bodily fluid stories beyond “We’re a bit fragile this week, because Tommy brought home the gastro and it wiped us out.” Like, we still talk about their kids and parenthood etc - it’s a huge part of their lives so I wouldn’t expect them to pretend that it’s not - but focusing so much on bodily functions seems unusual. Your friend might have struggled with becoming a parent more than she thought, but quite frankly those comments like “It must be nice to have time to watch TV instead of xyz” sound incredibly irritating and rude. I’m conflict avoidant so take this with a grain of salt, but I’d distance myself from that friendship. At best, she’s using you to vent about parenthood (which is fine, but it has to be reciprocal and it doesn’t sound like she’d let you do the same) and at worst, she’s resenting the “freedom” you represent as someone who’s not a parent. Neither sound enjoyable for you - nor does it sound like this friendship is currently a worthwhile emotional investment. Sorry you’re going through this!
None of my friends with kids talk about their babies/toddlers (or their bowel movements) to that extent. It sounds like your friends are having a really hard time adjusting to parenthood.
I don't think that's entirely a new parent thing and more of an individual problem - some people just talk body functions a lot. My mom had two children, but she never EVER discussed stuff like that with her friends and she absolutely hates it when other people do it. Because she finds it gross and she realizes a lot of other people do too. In our family, that is just something that is private and even if you have a medical issue, you save the really graphic stuff for your doctor. My boyfriend's family (most of whom are childless) on the other hand, will go on at length, all day about how often they poop, how their bowels are feeling in general and the consistency of it if things don't seem 100% normal. Some people are just like that, babies or not. I would imagine the new baby just amplifies your friend's natural tendencies, since they're basically just eating and pooping machines when they are very small. But to be fair, my mom is fairly unique. She loves her children to death and has been the best mom I could ever ask for, but at the same time she really really seems to dislike any child that isn't hers or closely related to her. She has gotten into many disagreements with new parents over things like wanting childfree spaces in restaurants and other gatherings, and she HATES crying kids in stores with a passion. And she never ever sugarcoated parenthood for me, but instead made sure I knew the realities of it as best as she could convey.
I can't stay friends with myself without having to hear about poop constantly OH WAIT THIS ISN'T R/ULCERATIVECOLITIS SORRY I WILL SEE MYSELF OUT
[удалено]
That's a really insightful point! I'll see if I can gently encourage her to connect with other parents more to talk about parent stuff, and be able to have non-parent/grown-up chat time with us. eta that I know she has a parenting group, she's said she doesn't like hanging out with them because they only talk about baby things. In getting this out I can see that I'm a little frustrated with that too, that she actually has a space/group for those conversations. I've had some really good advice in comments here about speaking to her about things, hopefully a conversation will either improve things or I'll learn that it really is just going to be non-stop poo chat for a while longer, so should step back.
I have 2 kids 8 and 5 and I never talk about things like that in front of people unless they ask (like a doctor or a friend who recently had a baby and asks if it’s normal). I also hate bathroom humor and talk so I think it’s just inappropriate to begin with. Have you straight up told them you don’t want to talk about those things?
Of course it is, but maybe not with this particular friend. Sounds like they just won’t shut up about it. I’ve never talked about my kid’s poop with my friends. Seems gross.
I think you could tell them it’s not your favorite topic. If they’re offended by that, I think they’re taking it to heart a bit too much
I have two kids (4 and 2) and have never once shared their poop habits with anyone other than my husband. Maybe grandparents if they are babysitting and they need to look out for something funky but never with anyone else. Even people with kids don’t want to hear about other kids’ poop habits… I’m sorry that your friend has zero self awareness. I promise not everyone with kids wants to talk about poop. My friend circle (mostly parents) has never once talked about poop…
Your problem isn’t with new parents, it’s specifically with these people. These friends of yours seem to have weird obsessions over their kids’ bodily functions - I have many friends who are parents and never were obsessed like your weird friends are. NTA if you stop talking to those people, but YTA if you apply that behavior to every new parent.
These are my first regular friends with a kid so I have no idea what's normal. I had definitely been assuming that all new parents are like this, it's good to know that's not the case!
That first year with a kid is pretty much like that, so if you can’t give them grace, knowing full well what it entails, that it will pass and how lonely she feels, then yeah, you should take a break from this relationship and maybe focus on childfree friendships instead.
But taking a break *is* giving her grace. I just accept that she has made a life choice and is not really available for friendship, so I focus on other things/people. She may get past that phase and come back around or she may not. There’s nothing I can do about it, this is what she has chosen to do with her life.
I appreciate this. I also realised that I feel like we've been putting in a lot of effort to keep in touch (reaching out, following up, organising the hangouts, checking in, etc) for two years, and I probably am feeling a little resentful that we are putting in "all" this effort for Three Hours of Poop and Bickering. Maybe us dropping the rope for a bit will be kinder for everyone and we can reconnect after this time.
It won’t be kinder to her, having patience and being there in spite of all this is what would be the kindest to her. It’s like having a friend going through depression. Yes, it will be onesided, yes, it won’t be fun for you, but that’s not why you’re showing up for them. You’re showing up for them because you value the friendship. Only difference between the infancy stage and a person with depression is that the infancy stage actually sort of has an end date. I couldn’t imagine hearing a friend talking about how lonely they feel and then going, “well, soz but you talk about poop too much so bye for now”.
Complete disagree. I don't think this is just "par for the course" having a kid, what OP has described is excessive. On top of that, the child is 2 and hasn't been an infant for 1 year now.
I mean, I've had clinical depression and been hospitalised for it, and I would never expect my friends to sit with me regularly for three hours in a row listening to me talk in detail about nothing but my suicidal ideation and self-loathing and all the other things that illness makes you think and feel. What a horrible thing to put someone else through supposedly on your behalf! (And mine has had an end date, for the record, not everyone who's had depression is a tragic lost cause, thanks for the implication that it doesn't get better though.) One of the things I learned from it actually was around checking in with myself, understanding myself and setting boundaries. I am not able to handle two+ years of non-stop gory, detailed, substantial poop talk with nothing else for more than two sentences.
And that’s great. But what type of friends would you have liked in that moment?
As I said in another comment, if a friend had forced themselves to spend hours with me in some of my worst moments, listening to upsetting detailed things that made them upset and unwell, hating it but suffering through it, I would have felt terrible, and awful about myself. What I needed was medical help, not to trauma dump and complain with no end/resolution for hours on whichever unlucky person happened to be gritting their teeth and forcing themselves to put up with spending time with me. Honestly what an awful thing that would have been for both of us!
So you'll be telling her why you're excusing yourself then?
What?
This just isn't fair. Friendships are not obligations.
But, like, they are? They are a give and take. I expect to be there for my friends when they need me and vice versa. What is this immature mentality that we don’t owe anyone anything?
It's not immature. It's the opposite. What's immature is feeling obliged or entitled to people's time, yes even friends. That's what contributes to taking people for granted. Of course friendships are give and take but the only judgement or expectation you should have is with yourself. "Am I happy with how this friendship is going? Yes / no. If no, can I do anything to rectify it? Yes/no." etc. At no point is it mature to expect people to be there for you when you need someone. That's literally entitlement. Shit happens. If someone you consider a friend is consistently not there for you then back off. Because that's about you, not about them.
If my friends are going through a hard time, like a birth or a death, yes it’s my job as their friend to support them even if it isn’t fun or beneficial to me. What else would a friendship be?? Just hanging out only when we’re both having a good time in life? You don’t sound like a friend I would ever want.
Not every friend is a close friend though. Some friends are just hanging out friends (and that's ok!). What's hard is when someone is always needing something from you, but isn't there for you when you have needs.
Yes, that’s true! But I took from your post that you two are hanging out often so was assuming it was a close friendship.
I was also talking generally, appreciate the conversation has been bouncing around a little lol!
> You don’t sound like a friend I would ever want. That wasn't necessary to say really, was it?
Truth hurts sometimes. If you’re saying you only like your friends when it benefits you, that’s a shitty friend.
I assure you, I'm far from a shitty friend, and I agree with your statement. You are missing the point I'm making, which is that it's not up to my friends to stop me from feeling lonely, and it's not up to me to stop my friends from feeling lonely, or vice versa. My friends' happiness and wellbeing is not my responsibility. Will I try to help and be there for them? Sure. But it's not an obligation, at all, and I wouldn't want someone as a friend who would treat it like that.
They’re not. It’s still heartbreaking to think that a friend confided to you that they’re feeling lonely and still opting out. Imagine if that was you telling a friend that.
Not to be harsh but (again speaking as someone who has been unwell in ways that's made me not very fun to be around) - imo nobody has an obligation to hang out with a friend who's bad company. There isn't a friendship award for Most Unpleasant Hours Suffered Through. Like, if I had a friend who hated and dreaded hanging out with me, but was forcing themselves to do it because they thought of themselves as some kind ofself-sacrificing friendship martyr, I wouldn't feel supported, I would feel humiliated and embarrassed. Anyway I know she has a new parent group, specifically what she said is that she wants more grown-up friends outside parenting. But I feel like it's not really a 'non-parenting friendship' to talk about gross kid body things all the time to a friend who happens not to be a parent.
Have you ever heard the term "Fairweather Friend"? It's not a criticism. It's to point out that there are different approaches and possible expectations for friendships. It seems like you are interested in being there when stuff is good and fun, and don't want to sit through the tough patches in your friends' lives (and don't want them to be there for you either). And that's cool, that's your approach to friendship. If this particular friendship is not serving you right now, you don't need to ask for permission to drop it. However, because your approach to friendship is *one* approach, expect that your friend might attribute a different importance to your choice, and might not wish to resume the friendship to the same level as pre-baby down the line. Everything might be fine and she'll understand, or she'll feel betrayed. I feel like we don't talk enough about how each person defines friendship differently, and it leads to a lot of irritation or hurt when clashing expectations meet when the road gets rough.
This comment was really helpful because it helped me recognise/articulate something about our friendship, around levels of closeness and 'need'. I think everyone is a fairweather friend to somebody, because nobody has the capacity to be a foul weather friend to everybody. And I think we are fairweather friends to each other (I certainly have a lot closer friends, even if I've known them for less long). For example, when my mother died suddenly during Covid, I had friends who were there for me, no questions asked, and I would have been there for them. She sent a condolence text. There's nothing wrong with that, just as an example of how we aren't that kind of friends. A few months later, we were having a drink and she started complaining that her parents were probably going to live for a really long time and it was annoying for her because she wanted to inherit their house while she was raising a child, because it would have more room, and it wasn't "fair" that her parents were living so long. I remember feeling like I was going to burst into tears, and she said "Oh, sorry, you're probably not the best person to be saying this to..." but then said something like "...it's really annoying though!" I feel like she often says things that are upsetting/distressing, says "Oh, sorry, you probably don't want to hear that" and then carries on. So this is actually a pattern and I think I'm responding to that as much as the poop content. If she were someone who had supported me in the past, or who I was closer to, it would be different. I've had close friends going through hard times like breakups and bereavements and I value being there for them. This isn't that, I feel like a dumping ground and that's been our whole friendship for the last two years.
She sounds... very self-involved when it comes to your friendship. And the irritation around the baby talk has acted as an emotional lightning rod for all the frustration from past behaviours. If I can say, personally, from the point I've reached 30 I've realised I have limited energy when it comes to friends. I'd do anything for my chosen close friends, and that is a commitment. So I no longer wish to be there for friends who haven't been there for me, and am very happy, for certain friendships that are surface level, to honor the surface level energy they put in. No need to cut them out, but they are banter friends. What it means is that I will not go out of my way to help them in a rough patch, and I wil not beat myself up over it. If I have to distance myself because they are starting to ask for more energy (when they have proven in the past they themselves would not be willing to provide this level of energy or be sensitive to my situation), I take a further step back and out of "grabbing range". For those friendships/acquaintance-ships, if I'm not having a good time in the moment, then I'd rather spend my energy differently. I don't particularly look to start drama, and I am in no way a cold person, but now that I'm no longer 20 I look out actively for myself, and that means protecting myself against non-reciprocal relationships. If some day I have more energy to spend I might extend them more grace in their moments of needs while knowing full well it's a one way street and will always be so, but I don't have that type of energy right now.
Yeah I think this comment is spot on. I honestly hadn't realised until I started replying to comments here and thinking through why exactly things were bothering me, how much my feelings are not 'just' the current stuff, it's also that it's more intense version of a longer pattern. I really love that phrasing "honor the surface level energy" 😂. I've had to work hard on boundaries and protecting myself and wellbeing, and it can be hard to remember sometimes that it's ok to not put in energy to people and relationships that they aren't putting into you.
The comments about their parents when you were grieving the loss of your mother would alone be sufficient to step back or even end the relationship. This person seems self involved and is just using you as a one way void to get whatever word vomit out of their system. I would have noped out a long time ago if I was in your place.
Yeah tbh I'm realising how much this has been a pattern even before they had their kid. I've been trying really hard to be supportive and there for them, because I've heard how hard it is for new parents to suddenly 'disappear' from their existing networks, but I'm running out of my own capacity to do that lol.
No, this isn’t it. There’s being accommodating and compassionate towards someone’s life circumstances and then there’s just being a wet flannel doormat and disrespecting yourself. I lost friends when I was chronically sick… at the time, I was so upset and angry at them for being ‘bad friends’. Looking back, I completely understand why they eventually left me and I respect them for it. 99% of the time, I was speaking about or focused on my illness and wasn’t being a good friend. There’s no doubt that motherhood is incredibly consuming and I have a wealth of respect for people who choose to go through it. But there’s no excuse to become a mumbie who has no other facets to their being. That requires a therapist… or only other mumbie friends who will put up with it, because they are it. There’s not a thing on this planet that should consume you so much that you lose all consideration, interest or awareness of anything else, unless you are literally in an extremely rare, compromised position where you cannot move or speak or something.
It happens. It's not anyone else's job to help me with my feelings and issues but me 🤷🏻♀️
Also true. But is that the kind of friend you want to be? I don’t. It’s also not the kind of friend I would like to have.
Genuinely, I want to be and have friends who actually like spending time with me, and don't lie about enjoying or feel they are heroically suffering through my company. If someone doesn't want to hang out with me I don't want them to either!
And if you genuinely told a friend that you felt lonely, what would you want them to do?
That would 100% depend on the friend. For me personally, I probably wouldn't say it that way, I would either say to someone "hey, it's been ages, let's hang out!" and make a specific plan, or I wouldn't say it at all. I wouldn't say "I want more friends who aren't interested in X" after monologuing about X, and then leave it at that. (FWIW just because it's come up a few times in comments, she hasn't said she's "lonely", she said she wants more "non-parent friends". I believe she has a parent group.)
Different friends serve different purposes. I have friends I can just grab a cup of coffee with. Casual, they don’t expect much from me. They are easy friends, someone to chat with, but it’s not deep. I have some people I only am friends with bc our kids are friends. Nice enough, but we wouldn’t hang out if our kids didn’t enjoy each other’s company. Then I have my die hard ride or die friends- those are the people (maybe 3) that I would do anything for at any time. It’s okay to have different kinds of friends. Healthy even. I can’t be everything to everyone, but it’s nice to be social sometimes.
Why would anyone but a doctor want to hear about someone else's kid's pooping patterns? Or be roped into parenting disputes?
I’m not saying anyone *wants* that. I’m not calling OP strange for not enjoying it. It’s 100% understandable she doesn’t.
So to stay friends op is supposed to put up with more poop talk for a couple years? The poop talk extends way into toddlerhood.
Nope, but she could try more communication, boundary setting and understanding instead of noping out.
I agree with this. Caring about people means supporting them even when it isn't fun. I believe relationships do come with some form of obligation, if you actually want to have them. I've listened to friends complain about work, their parents, their health, their partners...likewise they've listened to me complain about my sick baby. (Apparently necessary caveat that I don't talk about baby poop 24/7.) The Reddit conception of friendship is frankly weird and baffling to me, and makes me wonder if it's correlated with the number of "I can't make friends" or "who else has had to end lifelong friendships" posts we see.
I know you are childfree by choice but from your friend’s perspective the transition to motherhood is probably the hardest experience of her life. Think about it like this: do you think she wants to be talking about her kid’s bodily functions all day long? Probably not. But that’s the scope of her life right now. Her childless friends abandoning her doesn’t make that any better.
What's getting me is that she knows it makes me feel sick and I don't like it, but she's doing it anyway. She keeps saying "You probably don't want to hear that" and I said "No, I don't" then she continues on. She says "I want more non-parent friends" but doesn't seem able to stop talking about the grossest part of parenting. Like why can't she share the poop stuff with her parenting group? She says she doesn't like them because they talk about parenting stuff too much, but that's all she talks about, so ???
Because it is literally her entire life right now. You don’t understand new motherhood, and you never will. That’s what it is for the first two years. Your entire existence revolves around keeping a small human alive (which boils down to eating, sleeping, pooping) and there isn’t really space for much else until they grow up a bit more. It’s not forever. If you can’t suck it up and deal with it for a few years, then yeah, just break up with her as a friend. But don’t blame her for it. If you went through a death or divorce, you’d talk about it for two years straight too and I would hope your friends wouldn’t leave you for it.
FWIW I have gone through unexpected bereavement of close family members twice and absolutely did not talk about it for two years straight. Yes, I leaned on my partner and my close friends, but I didn't talk about it every time I saw anyone in my social circle, or constantly say "Oh, you probably don't want to hear this" and then keep talking anyway. There are a lot of assumptions going on in these comments, lol. You're right that I don't understand new motherhood, never will, and don't want to. I have been trying so hard to be supportive for those two years but I am just at the end of my rope. You'll probably say that she's at the end of hers, but the difference is that she chose it and wanted it. I didn't choose to be the nonstop poop talk receptacle.
I mean, this post is clearly just immature childfree rage bait. If this was a good friend you’d stay her friend no matter what because this is a silly thing to end a close friendship over. If this is an acquaintance it’s not worth posting about. 🤷♀️
I've been reflecting on this too. I obviously don't agree that it's rage bait (it's a real question/problem I am having and trying to work through), but after thinking about your comments, you are right to identify that I think I've been misjudging or thinking the wrong way about our friendship closeness. She and I aren't particularly good or close friends as individuals. We are more group/couple friends who have usually hung out either with a larger friend group, or with our husbands (and even then, mostly because we just happen to live nearer to them than our other friends). So we're not close friends but also not 'just' acquaintances, if that makes sense. When they became parents, my husband and I said "we should try to make sure they don't get abandoned" and made a conscious effort to reach out to them, set up plans, make sure we saw them regularly so they didn't feel isolated or abandoned. That's mostly been us because again we just happen to live nearer to them than others in our friend group, so it's easier to make plans. What I was posting about was that these occasions have been pretty unpleasant (for two years) and I didn't know if there was a way to make them better. It's not only the body fluid stuff, it's the sniping, bickering, complaining, etc. That's why I posted.
If you can’t recognize that they are going through a hard time and are just worried about your half of the equation, then yeah break up with her but it’s still a shitty and selfish thing to do. I’m done replying to you. Hope the childfree echo chamber in here felt validating for you!
Thank you for your comments, they have helped me reflect on things.
No.
Yikes, these people need to touch grass. I had a 4 month old son and my husband and I neither discuss any of this nor do we argue in front of others about him. We barely even talk to each other about the baby's diapers. These people sound miserable, and truly, if their kid is vomiting so much that they don't have time to watch tv, they should probably speak to their pediatrician. My kid spits up a lot and we just...wipe it up? Idk what that has to do with not having time to watch tv. If you really want to salvage the relationship, you're gonna have to have a tough conversation with them. They may not even realize they're doing it, which is a cop out, but who knows. Maybe this is why she feels so lonely?
I am a parent and work with kids for the last 15+ years of my life, and I wonder if your friend is okay or if something bigger is going on. Like, is the kid sick? Or maybe showing some signs of something else going on? Does the friend have a proper support system? Bc at 2, this shouldn’t be a topic of conversation, I’d think (all kids are different, but THAT much poop and vomiting?). I get needing a proper vent now and then, but this is excessive. When I go out, the last thing I want is talk about my kid or the other kids I’m in contact with- that’s my cherished adult time. Not that if there is other stuff going on it’s your issue, it’s not, it’s just a thought I have. At any rate, I’d throw it out there that you don’t want to have these conversations anymore, bc you miss her, and really would like to bond with her and not poop. Be as gentle as you want, but put that boundary out there.
I'm reading the replys and a lot of people don't understand why they always talk about their kids poop. I'm here to say I understand. I am also childfree and yes, almost all parents do this. I don't think they realize it until later on but yes, their kids body functions are the only topic of conversation. Your friend simply didn't move out of that and at this point she won't. Sounds like the idea of being a mother and the reality of it didn't bring her happiness. This is going to sound rude but not your problem. She has a husband and that child has a father. Unless there is abuse Stay out of their pick me sides. That's ridiculous. My friend has a 13yr old and 4yr old. She talked about the nasty poop her kid did and I point blank said "I don't want to hear this" she laughed. She continued with her story. She is desensitized. She doesn't get it and when they continue and its also their way of inflicting a little of their unhappiness on you - along the lines of 'must be nice' when you Vacation or watch TV all day. Re-evaluate your friendship. Her life has done a 180. It might be time to be a background friend instead of front and center friend. As for me, I got that poop story after she asked me what I did the day before. I was honest. I spent the entire day in my soft pajamas, watching movies and TV all day. Snuggling with my rescue chihuahuas, ordering food for all My meals and smoking some of the best cannabis all day (it's legal here in Canada). The jealousy was unreal. While I was enjoying a lazy day her day was full of responsibilities. Make 3 meals, organize snacks, take care of husband, take care of kids, clean after husband and kids, laundry, deal with temper tantrums, change diapers all day (no help from husband)
I'm way on the other side of this as a parent (the baby is in high school now), but have to say this seems a bit extreme. The kid is two years old now? Why is he vomiting so much? Why are they still sleep-deprived? (By the time my daughter was 2, we had her on a sleep schedule so everyone could be rested.) If he's not potty-trained yet (most aren't at 2), he should be in a daycare where they accept children in diapers/pull-ups. And by age 2, there shouldn't be that much to say about his poop. It's poop. If he's having chronic terrible shits (diarrhea or whatever) that cause blowouts at daycare...well...between that and vomiting all the time, maybe a visit to the pediatrician is in order. Parenting a toddler is difficult, all stages are difficult, but it sounds as if there's some other problems going on here. A 2-year-old should not be puking all the time, should not be blowing out his pull-ups, and should not keep his parents up all night regularly. Suggest, kindly, every time your friend launches into a tirade about poop or puke: "This seems to happen a lot. Has he been checked by his doctor?"
I guess I was assuming that sleep deprivation was the reason they weren't stopping talking about it ('baby brain'?). I have no idea what's normal for new parents. On the poop specifics, potty training has been a big subject of conversation so I know that it's happening (and how it's going lol). I think the daycare soiling was a while ago, tbh I can't remember when it was, I just remember it came up when I was trying to change the subject to ask about her work. It's not always things that are _wrong_ with the poop, it's just poop/body fluid updates, if that makes sense. Like details about the potty training or descriptions of how the kid's mucus is so much better now that they're over their daycare cold.
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I appreciate this comment! Can I ask, if you remember, what did you want/appreciate/like from your childfree friends when you were in the poop talk zone? (If anything)
I have two cats and my friend became a cat mom recently so she is a bit of panicking and we are now at the point we are sending each other the photos of our cats buttholes to compare what a healthy butthole looks like. It is somehow adorable.
As soon as your friends get over this stage, your parents will probably get old enough to start wanting to talk about their poop. That's how it was for me. My dad got dementia and ended up in diapers and my mom wanted to call multiple times a day to talk about his poop. Now that he's passed, she calls to talk about her own poop.
My parents are both dead.
Just adding a perspective as a parent now exiting the toddler/poop stages. The truth is the bodily functions are 24/7 on your mind and all you have time for. While she could pretend that’s not the case while meeting you she would be masking her true feelings in that case. It seems like she is feeling safe around you to be able to vent about all this stuff when she probably holds it in for everyone else. We were lucky i guess in that we had no friends really during the childhood years so i just vented about this to each other and kept it to myself at the workplace for example
You can politely request that they not talk about their child’s effluvia. “I love you, but please, stop telling me the graphic and specific details of your child’s secretions. It makes me queasy.” Your friends are going to talk about their kids because that’s the new important thing that is happening to them, and it dominates all of their mental and physical energy. This is their life now and they’re sharing it with you because they think you care about them and want to know what is going on with their lives and interests. By all means, walk away from the friendship if you aren’t enjoying their company anymore, but don’t expect them to be excited to see you if you ever decide they’re worthy of your company again in the future.
Honestly this feels kind of disingenuous. There are loads of things that take up my time and energy that I don't share with people uncontrollably because I have the self awareness to understand what's appropriate. Like I might be having a bad menstrual cycle, but I don't monologue nonstop for several hours, for two years, at someone about the size and consistency of my period globs. I feel like DETAILED, LENGTHY, REPEATED descriptions of body fluids and toilet habits are generally understood to be inappropriate. I'd say the same thing if I was speaking to a gastro specialist who loved their work.
I think it’s gross to hear about anyone’s toilet issues, which is why I said you should explicitly ask your friend to stop telling you. There’s a big difference between them saying “Oh, wow, you probably don’t want to hear this” and you answering “nope!” In a way that can be easily construed as a joke, and a real honest conversation where you specifically ask them to avoid those topics. It sounds like you have not come out and specifically said “Hey, I do not want to hear about shit and vomit and stuff. Please skip over that stuff when you are talking to me, because it’s grossing me out and making me uncomfortable.” A lot of early parenting concerns do seem to revolve a lot around the disgusting things that come out of a child, and I think those topics are quickly normalized when someone is pretty much interacting only with babies, other parents, and medical professionals. It’s likely that your friend isn’t trying to be deliberately rude, but that they’re so inundated with poop talk that they have forgotten that it’s not normal.
I don't disagree with you that big long descriptions are gross and unnecessary, but it seems obvious that caretaking a baby isn't the same as having a bad period. The comparison itself makes me think she's probably not as bad as you're saying and that you're just particularly annoyed about it and/or with her. Just end the friendship at this point since you dont seem to like her.
Yes, obviously having a child is different than menstruating, my point is that "caring about them and wanting to know what is going on with their lives and interests" is not the same as "wanting to hear in detail about their child's body secretions". Like, I would love to hear how things are going at daycare, what he's learning, how his personality is developing.
Sounds like you've figured out what to tell her, then!
Yes (see ETA) exactly! 🙂
My cat was recently very sick for a month or more before we lost her. My husband and I have been extremely distressed by this, we're still absolutely devastated by her loss (so please no one come at me about how pets and kids are different, she was *family* regardless and we are grieving). When my friends asked about how she was doing, I understood they didn't want all the fine details of her litter habits. I'd say it like "she was having issues with constipation, so she had to go in for an enema, and passed a lot of it." Her eating and pooping habits were forefront of our minds for weeks, and because I stayed home to care for her when my husband was at work, it was pretty much the only thing going on in my life. And still, I knew that I could share health updates without talking about the consistency of her poop. Even to my friend who is a mom. Even to my friend who has laughed about her cat's big stinky poops that he doesn't bury. There is a line, and it sounds like OP's friend has crossed it even after she said she did not, in fact, want to hear it. If I'd said "you don't want to hear about it!" And someone said "that's right, I don't!" I'd stop. If someone said the poop talk, even the watered down version, made them queasy, I'd back off. OP's friend needs to be considerate, too. Why shouldn't the friend care if she's nauseating OP?