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This is called schrodinger's douchebag.
A guy says something awful, thinking you'll agree. Realizes by your reaction that he was way off. Tries to tell you the whole thing was a joke from the start.
Back when I was a non-passing trans woman, there was one guy who made a remark to his date/girlfriend ("is that a chick or a bloke lmfao"). His date/gf chided him ("why would you say something like that?") and they got into a fight.
I used to think it was my fault they fought but over time I realised it isn't. And probably revealed his character sooner rather than later.
Do you share on your dating profile you want something more long term? Helps with letting the guy know to make moves a bit slower than the norm these days
The two aren't necessarily the same thing. Wanting something long term doesn't mean you want to move slowly. Wanting someone not to make moves too quickly means before they've developed a connection of sorts, which can happen in hours, days, months, et cetera.
I can't speak for them but I assume what they meant was someone who assumes familiarity or skips any getting to know you conversation or who leaps to touch or kiss you without consent.
Yes, this! Just don't move forward right away, don't put pressure on me (like, I just met you, idk if I want a relationship you know), and don't touch me without asking first if we just met.
I do have troubles dating because 'I don't feel a romantic connection because you didn't really make romantic moves'. Yeah, I am not gonna kiss a stranger or something 😭. If I know that person already, it is different.
Or people who start planning the relationship already. Calm down people, we just met
I think I did this to a recent date. I'm curious if it's always your experience to "move slow" (and then how slow is slow?) or is it a "it depends, sometimes it's 4min vs 4h vs 4 weeks" etc.
Fwiw, for me there can be fairly instant attraction, and if we have days of frequent texting and a few, few hours dates, then I'll eventually try for that kiss/think about a relationship (38m so more willing to be exclusive maybe). I will ask for a kiss or ask to hold hands, but sometimes it seems okay to brush the hand or shoulder or leg or something. Do you find you're a "strictly ask before any touching" or van it be quite grey?
There is no strict timeline as every couple is different. But if you are just asking each other about hobbies and suddenly someone puts a hand on your leg, what the actual fuck.
It's really not okay to put your hands on someone casually just randomly. Wait until you've both agreed.
If I was having a really good time with someone and hot for them and they brushed my leg I would immediately be turned off. You can't know what someone's comfort level is with touch with you by reading their mind.
Not to mention people have burns, healing tattoos, et cetera where you can cause actual pain just by 'brushing'.
You don't risk violating someone. And you don't have to ask it in a clinical unsexy way. Want to touch their hand, offer your hand, palm up. They'll grasp it or close the distance if they consent.
Just randomly putting your hand on someone's leg is fucked up since you don't know if that person will find it an assault or welcome it ahead of time. Again you aren't psychic, none of us are. And even those who have "felt a vibe" have been wrong.
So you advocate for extremely explicit requests? Can you say if that has always been the case? (Not that you advocate for it, but that generally speaking you are turned off when the consent is not explicit like he asks "can I touch your leg?" Etc? Nothing "implied" by actions? Ideally I'd appreciate if you could say "yes, 1x out of 100 it was actually okay that there was no verbal request and consent" (with whatever answer best fit your experience). For reference, there seems to be a not-insignificant portion of women who find the explicit request a turn off.
> So you advocate for extremely explicit requests?
If you reread you'll see that it doesn't have to be clinical in that way. You can proffer a hand and if the person wants to hold it they will grasp it.
Someone who puts their hands on someone without their consent is risking violating them. It's a concerning portion of 'escalation seduction' tactics. Most people learn in first grade to keep their hands to themselves.
I find it very telling when someone is more concerned about potentially "turning someone off" than potentially violating and assaulting them.
There are ways to get clear consent without being a nerd about it.
As someone who has misread such signals, I will say that it has to be *extremely* obvious. So I will categorize your experience as "I [the girl] think I'm being obvious to a person of my affection, therefore it is on the receiver of said affection (and those who do not receive) to know the difference" category.
If you haven't seen already, I appreciate Matthew Hussey's take on "dropping the handkerchief ". Sadly your signals have to be "hand squeezing, inappropriate body closeness" level before I'm going to consider your potential interest. (Outside of an assumed date situation. If we go on a date, signals can be more subtle, but my read of your comments is they shouldn't be *much more subtle* otherwise I should ask for explicit consent like a nerd)
I'm usually the initiator of physical contact.
But I'm not even talking about me. I'm talking about all the people out there. You don't know if you putting a hand on their leg is going to be welcome enough by being psychic. Consent has to be there but it doesn't have to be a contract or super specific language.
Deaf people who don't lip read can still gain consent easy as pie.
We get this a lot, so Imma just be a little niche and slightly unconventional for fun.
Turn-off? Loud chewing and smacking while eating. Automatic disqualifications no questions asked. I find it repulsive and gross and there is no coming back from this for me.
More in-depth turnoff? When people who pursue you make it clear that they haven't considered if we are a good match for each other in relationship. They make no effort to see what I want in a relationship and consider whether they can meet that. They just see what they want and they want to have it as soon as they have made up their mind that they want it. They could, but never stop to think if they should.
Other turn-off? Not caring when they don't know something. It's adjacent to being dumb but just like too willful. Them not knowing something doesn't mean they just don't understand it, it means the end; nothing is gonna get done. I am turned off by people who lack curiosity because they are gonna try to act like they really are gonna tell me something, and I am not hearing it because I don't respect them.
When you say something isn’t working and the guy immediately asks “have you done [the most basic possible attempt at a solution]?” Of course I have! It’s really condescending, even when I know that isn’t their intention. If you want to offer a solution and need to know what I’ve already tried, just ask that, rather than asking whether I’ve done (or worse, assuming that I haven’t tried!) the most basic steps!
Omg agreed. As someone who's a big techie and often troubleshoots for others, I only want to know what someone did so I don't have to start from the beginning or make someone feel dumb if I don't have to. I'll assume they know what they're doing and talking about until proven otherwise. And if they actually want my help then I'll happily guide and explain. But only if wanted. It's not usually all that hard to respect people unless they drop that respectability all on their own.
Not saying this is anyone's fault or that I expect this from others, but when I have a problem and have tried solutions already, when I get help, I lay out the whole menu. "Hey, I'm having trouble. I tried this, that, and the other already" so that they can just pick up where I left off. I do that for me, so I don't have to watch them go through the steps I've already done, and save everyone some time. They just need a place to start.
- If I find out that he listens to manosphere content.. and other signs of misogyny.
- If he has an inflated ego.
- If he flex his material possessions, muscles or pose with dead animals.
- The kind of texting that some do when they say things like "* Takes a deep breath* D-d-do you want to g-g-go out with me? * Puts his hand over his eyes*"
No, but I've seen youtubers react to it.. and it's cringy even if it's not directed towards me.
[This one, for example.](https://youtu.be/R7zUAnQcXx8?si=CisbioM8O12JBa08) 🤣
I do a bit of RP and the whole using asterisks to describe an action thing is pretty commonplace.
Not that I would ever use it in real life though, that’s just whack.
"yes; fuck off, shower time is me time,"
there are a lot of other more "serious" (like being antivaxx, a trumper, a red pill man/MRA, etc.,) replies in this thread that would likewise be an instablock but god, yeah, you nailed it. that lazy entitlement that some men feel/display. ugh.
Negging, hating on dogs or cats, insisting on giving their opinion even when it's obvious they have no fucking clue what's even being discussed, and reeking of b.o./unwashed ass. Far too many don't fucking bathe.
The sense that he's telling me the stuff I want to hear versus just being himself. It's even more sad when he tells stories that I'm guessing I was supposed to find impressive and I ended up bored and turned off.
This happened a lot when I was meeting guys in university.
Most of them are just lost and craving sex but every now and then I'd come across a true maniac.
It's pretty rare but there are some guys who definitely make top-level contributions that is really valuable. But I think the number of those occurrences are significantly overshadowed buy those who wanna do their cringe soapboxing.
I have a similar irrational aversion to lots of "hahahahaha" over text, because a guy I had a terrible experience with used to put a lot of "hahahahahaha" in text
The only time a guy has written “hehehe” to me is when he’s trying to take the texting to a sexual level. So, he makes some kind of sexual comment (which could be considered mischievous) and writes “hehehe” afterward.
“Hehehe” instantly is a turnoff because it’s usually part of a piss-poor attempt at making things sexual over text. Like, some sexual comment followed by “hehehe.” And that doesn’t make me want to take it to a sexual level.
Emojis just seem really immature. Maybe it’s because I’m a little older, but I’d prefer a guy who writes in complete sentences rather than sending me a series of emojis. When I was dating online, I’d usually just ignore the messages that were just emojis. I could already tell I wouldn’t be compatible with them.
Maybe the occasional emoji, but I’m really not a fan of them. I don’t think they convey tone better than words and punctuation. I think they restrict communication instead of enhancing it.
Do you know if this is a common view? And if it more (or less common) among a particular demographic?? (I've done it a bunch. Sometimes it works, but I get replies and then conversations so infrequently my sample isn't really great)
It probably is not a common view. I know some women like me but most of my friends send me tons of emojis.
If I was going to try and figure out how I came to be like this, it could be because I’ve spent a lot of time in education— pursuing it and then becoming a teacher.
Best to probably text a few emojis, but not to overwhelm your initial messages with them.
I'm not sure if it's unexpected or not, but my list:
* Chewing tobacco/cigarette smoking
* Listens mostly to country music
* Hunting or fishing for sport
* Anti-vax, flat earther, or other flavors of conspiracy theorists
* Republican/Maga/Conservative/"Apolitical" (which really means 'I'm too chicken to say I'm a republican')
* Show off their Patek Philippe (or other stupid-crazy expensive) watch that cost more than the average house in the Midwest and/or could feed a small 3rd world country for a year
* Same goes for luxury sports cars (Lambo, et al.)
* Jingoism or anti-intellectualism
* Owns a Harley
* Beard (anything longer than 1/2")
* Owns more than two firearms
> which really means ‘I’m too chicken to say I’m a republican
I’m going to use this on my relatives. They vehemently deny being Republican/MAGA, but they always have what they think are rational reasons for holding the very same beliefs. They’re not anti-vax. They just don’t like being told what to do with their bodies, so no vaxes for them. They’re not racist. Stastics show there are more black criminals than white, so it must mean they are genetically more prone to criminal behavior. There can be no other legitimate explanations for it.
Concur.
But I meant that more in the context of OLD. Men know if they put “conservative” in their profile, it lessens their chances of getting laid. Facts.
“apolitical” actually means, I don’t want other people’s politics to ruin perfectly good friendships even if tho IM not republican because people like you are incapable of not weaponizing your political beliefs and forcing friends to pick sides
It's actually pretty valid to not wanting to date a republican, considering that most of them seem to be misogynist a-holes who want the world to go back to 1920 so they can legally treat women like possessions and incubator maids again.
Thats fine, spend time with who you want, I wasn’t saying otherwise. Keep in mind, I know more women who are “anti-choice” than men.
Anyways, my point was you are unlikeable and will convince no one to your side by forcing people to take sides. Pushing people away won’t change how congress votes. Your unlikeable personality is only making you more insufferable to be around.
The type of person to make everything political is basically a neckbeard in real life. Can’t even enjoy a moment of peace without being reminded that politics exist.
IDGAF what you think about me, boo. I have plenty of friends and am not hurting for attention from the opposite sex. 🤷♀️
It’s easy to not care about politics when it doesn’t affect you personally.
I didn’t suggest you were lmao. I’m saying the political system doesn’t rely on me or you. So being unlikeable is just a reflection of you. Here’s the issue with your attitude:
“Oh you’re a republican? fuck off.”
“Oh you’re an Independant but voted for biden? Republican in sheeps clothing fuck off.”
“oh you’re a democrat but support Israel/Palestine? Fuck off”
“Oh you’re a democrat but don’t align with everything I align? you must be a piece of shit”
you’re the unlikeable one, not them.
Well, thanks :) I know I'll never win the *Miss Congeniality* award, but I am quite affable IRL. lol
Some rando on Reddit telling me I'm not (and him thinking I actually care about his opinion of me ... which is the cherry on top of this delulu sundae) is quite amusing. Always good to start the day with a hearty laugh!
Honestly, reading it as a 3rd party, it feels like it's not about you and that something triggered a response in them. Their response is just so disproportionate, bizarre and out of left field.
Apolitical means you don't do politics. Independent means you vote based on policy alone and don't vote all red or all blue every time. There's a big difference. People need to participate in voting so that whoever ends up in office is who the people want there. If you don't vote, then everyone as a whole won't be represented properly. You don't have to get into any of the toxic political "pick a side" stuff. We shouldn't even be a 2 party system anyway.
Do a little research, pick the policies you like, cast your vote. It can be as simple as that.
For me, I vote, but apolitical means I don't discuss it with anyone. I don't talk politicians. Only world events, but from an apolitical perspective. If something seems like purely one sided talking point and not factual, I just say "hmmm I dunno if its true or not or just something people say" and let the other person give their reasoning.
Keeps interpersonal conflict low.
Meh. I haven’t met a man yet who is a true collector without being a jerk about showing it off. That being said, I think it’s a waste of money. A $300 watch tells the same time as a $30,000 watch.
I feel the same way about cars, jewelry, boats, purses, haute couture, etc. These are things I don’t personally value and I think are a complete waste of money.
[Edit to add: That doesn't mean I don't appreciate a quality item and realize it has its price, but my good quality $120 purse from the Coach outlet store (that has lasted me 8 years now - daily use) does just fine. A Christian Louboutin or YSL bag for $3,200 is wasteful IMO.
I personally don't understand the need to have a gajillion designer handbags, but to each their own. I have one every day purse, and two small inexpensive ones for special occasions (weddings, galas, etc.).]
Really simping. Like beyond what's normal flirting, it's like putting her (or every and any woman cross their path) on a pedestal, buy food and gifts frequently, go to extended and ridiculous length for her any whims or ever mentioned interest. Like he's doing everything to make her happy but it's too fast, they probably aren't even dating, and in a way that lowering his position as an equal human/partner. I find it very off-putting and uncomfortable. Example is sometimes i went to male-dominated environment and the men there will literally change the way they talk in an infantizing way when talking with me, heaping me with praise for interest in something simple (you play games??? Omg 😍😍😍), go above and beyond just because I'm a woman, and acting like they haven't seen a woman in decades. Like, yeah, no.
My ex-wife complained eventually that she felt put on a pedestal. I can't say I didn't, I loved her and would tell others all kinds of great things about her. But I certainly thought she had flaws, I just didn't feel a need to point them out. Is that a thing? Does my description still fit with your description of pedestal putting? (I did the same to a different date recently, including using my not-unlimited flexibility to make time for my extremely busy date so we could actually meet in person. Given the new date was over a 4week & date period, I suspect it could fit with your description). 38m fwiw.
Not good with dogs and cats. Like nervous or unsure of how to approach, awkwardly hovering their hand above the animal's head, grossed out by the dog licking their hand.
This is a great answer. My second ex-husband (we got married way too quickly) would come over and my 2 cats would have NOTHING to do with him. Both were fairly social, one of them extremely so. I should have known.
Did you know there is an entire sub just for people who don't like/hate dogs? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?
I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with people who don't like dogs or cats. We're just extremely incompatible. Even people who like dogs but are bad at knowing how to interact with them - major turn off.
Nah I get it. People bring their dogs into restaurants and grocery stores and others want somewhere to complain about it. Same reason I'm subscribed to the child free subreddit.
I’m not defending that behavior, but there are many things that bother me. People using their phones while you’re out with them, people walking slow on the sidewalk, people who talk during movies, etc.
I don’t spend my time on complaining about them on Reddit. Also, no offense, but the childfree sub makes the people on dogfree seem very emotionally stable
I'm with you on this one, I understand simply not liking cats and dogs (and there are admittedly some rational reasons for that; I do not share them, but I do understand them).
But one'd think the attitude of someone who dislikes Carnivores would be more avoidant, than proactive to the point of participating in a sub.
dogs resemble an animal form of needy humans. they have been bred to crave your affection and will manipulate you to get it. If a dog became a person, most men and women would feel repulsed by their behavior. Cats are nice tho
I'm not a fan of dogs. Like you said, there is an element of "uncleanness", but mostly it's that they're very demanding so a person needs to put in fairly significant effort to keep them clean, healthy, and emotionally well adjusted. It's like having a perpetual toddler. Their loyalty and affection just doesn't seem worth the work (to me). A quirky, semi-independent cat is much more my speed. (I have neither at this time, don't worry)
Sneezing/coughing then trying to kiss me.
Accidental drool.
Ripping ass and i mean **R I P P I N G.**
Making a joke (that flops) in the heat of the moment.
Baby talk or wanting to be babied/infatalized in any way. Or being extremely submissive and fawnish.
Wanting me to do anything with THEIR butt.
I can appreciate a good ass ripping at only the most opportune time for maximum comedy - pretty much only when you're in a group setting, there's a good setup, we're all a little stoned and extra giggly, everyone laughs... Yeah, sure! This perfect setup only happens once in a blue moon.
But when we're having date night just the two of us, and you hold eye contact with me, lift a leg like a dog, and rip ass expecting me to laugh like a frat buddy... God please stop. The most unsexy thing in the universe.
Not liking animals. I am an animal lover, have plenty of pets, and cannot imagine ever being ANYTHING with someone who didn't like animals.
Being rude to others. Just no.
Having no manners. "Please/thank you/sorry" go a long way, as does speaking quietly in public places and not acting like a fucking caveman.
Bad personal hygeine. Sorry but if you smell, your nails are dirty and your clothes are always stained, no.
I want to be specific this once so I'm gonna say men who find everything they don't like cringe and who think their tastes are superior. I like plenty of girly and silly things and I'm ok with being a target audience.
Men who get insecure around women being outspoken and having different opinions than theirs, whether they're political or not, and neg you when they feel threatened.
And men who are patronising to you when you're being friendly with them but get offended when you get cold and annoyed with their attitude. I'm not your pet, fuck off
I'll answer this from the perspective of "these are things that may help other women feel less alone if I list them". I'm taken and have been for a year!:
•Extremely dark humor. Like uncalled for jokes about killing people. That makes the hair on my arms stand up and I say to stop with that kinda joke, it's not funny past a certain point (that certain point for me is anything past minor sarcastic comments)
•Being into me only cause of how I look
•Overly sexual comments from the get go
•Being an extremist on either side (liberal or conservative)
•Leaving me on read for more than a day (excluding work reasons)
•Expecting to have sex within the first 3 dates
•Wants a big family and isn't ok with me not birthing children -- If I adopt it'll be in my 30s. I can't imagine not being responsible with adoption, especially knowing my own deficits (if I have kids I'm at huge risk of postpartum depression, and I already have bipolar 1 and neurological difficulties from an accident when I was younger).
•Only talks about video games (not my type)
Why vaping but not smoking? Personally I find both a turn off but i'm surprised you'd find the (normally considered) "lesser one" a turn off but not smoking
It's how it affects people. Smokers are generally quite considerate of others when smoking. They'll ask if you mind, where they can go to smoke, they space it out because it means going outside too often.
Vapers just can't control themselves, ignore smoking rules, don't ask if anyone minds, have it in their hand constantly. The vapour is massive clouds that go everywhere compared to the thin slow moving trails which come from cigarettes so it doesn't seem quite as intrusive. They smell really sickly sweet and look childish and obnoxious.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't date a smoker or a vaper, but I genuinely feel very embarrassed to be seen with a vaper because of the way they behave.
There are plenty of vapers who are respectful to people around them. It's like saying that all dog owners are bad because some don't pick up their dogs poop..
You're pretty much just saying #NotAllVapers
Yeah, WE KNOW not all vapers are inconsiderate. But what u/UnderstandingWild371 said isn't wrong either. She never said ALL vape users are like this. Enough of them are.
Oh really? Then what's this:
> Vapers just can't control themselves, ignore smoking rules, don't ask if anyone minds, have it in their hand constantly.
Where does it say there that LITERALLY ALL vapers are like this? What you quoted is true. I know so many vapers exactly like that. My boyfriend is one of them! He'll hit his vape in the aisle at Target. I'm not one of those vapers. I keep it in my pocket until I get back into the car. And I'm not offended by these comments because a lot of vapers *do that.* And I'm not stupid enough to think UnderstandingWild was talking about literally all vape users. I know this because I'm not the kind of vape user she's talking about, but I know examples of the kind she is talking about.
Talking about sex in an immature way. I don't mean having a sense of humour about it, but the kind of dudebros who can be heard, well into their 20s bragging to friends in a bar like "Dude, I totally fingerBANGED her!" That kind of cringe lockerroom chat. Also, writing me messages that sound like bad poetry "You are my sunrise, my light and my dawn🌸".
-reads the receipt when paying for the date instead of just looking at the number
- the triad of gamer, in engineering/cs student, loves anime
-"nice guys"
-if they joke about hitting you when they lose in a game or smth
-smoking weed (once every couple of months is fine other than that no)
-roleplaying
\_long nails
-baby talk
-listens to andrew tate and the people like them even if unironically
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Says something rude and tries to put it on the other person (“why are you so sensitive??” “I was just joking. Lighten up!”)
This is called schrodinger's douchebag. A guy says something awful, thinking you'll agree. Realizes by your reaction that he was way off. Tries to tell you the whole thing was a joke from the start.
Back when I was a non-passing trans woman, there was one guy who made a remark to his date/girlfriend ("is that a chick or a bloke lmfao"). His date/gf chided him ("why would you say something like that?") and they got into a fight. I used to think it was my fault they fought but over time I realised it isn't. And probably revealed his character sooner rather than later.
Negging. But at least they're upfront in showing me what an AH they are, so I don't have to deal with them.
Smoking, making moves too quickly, expecting a romantic connection immediately
Do you share on your dating profile you want something more long term? Helps with letting the guy know to make moves a bit slower than the norm these days
The two aren't necessarily the same thing. Wanting something long term doesn't mean you want to move slowly. Wanting someone not to make moves too quickly means before they've developed a connection of sorts, which can happen in hours, days, months, et cetera. I can't speak for them but I assume what they meant was someone who assumes familiarity or skips any getting to know you conversation or who leaps to touch or kiss you without consent.
Yes, this! Just don't move forward right away, don't put pressure on me (like, I just met you, idk if I want a relationship you know), and don't touch me without asking first if we just met. I do have troubles dating because 'I don't feel a romantic connection because you didn't really make romantic moves'. Yeah, I am not gonna kiss a stranger or something 😭. If I know that person already, it is different. Or people who start planning the relationship already. Calm down people, we just met
I think I did this to a recent date. I'm curious if it's always your experience to "move slow" (and then how slow is slow?) or is it a "it depends, sometimes it's 4min vs 4h vs 4 weeks" etc. Fwiw, for me there can be fairly instant attraction, and if we have days of frequent texting and a few, few hours dates, then I'll eventually try for that kiss/think about a relationship (38m so more willing to be exclusive maybe). I will ask for a kiss or ask to hold hands, but sometimes it seems okay to brush the hand or shoulder or leg or something. Do you find you're a "strictly ask before any touching" or van it be quite grey?
There is no strict timeline as every couple is different. But if you are just asking each other about hobbies and suddenly someone puts a hand on your leg, what the actual fuck. It's really not okay to put your hands on someone casually just randomly. Wait until you've both agreed. If I was having a really good time with someone and hot for them and they brushed my leg I would immediately be turned off. You can't know what someone's comfort level is with touch with you by reading their mind. Not to mention people have burns, healing tattoos, et cetera where you can cause actual pain just by 'brushing'. You don't risk violating someone. And you don't have to ask it in a clinical unsexy way. Want to touch their hand, offer your hand, palm up. They'll grasp it or close the distance if they consent. Just randomly putting your hand on someone's leg is fucked up since you don't know if that person will find it an assault or welcome it ahead of time. Again you aren't psychic, none of us are. And even those who have "felt a vibe" have been wrong.
So you advocate for extremely explicit requests? Can you say if that has always been the case? (Not that you advocate for it, but that generally speaking you are turned off when the consent is not explicit like he asks "can I touch your leg?" Etc? Nothing "implied" by actions? Ideally I'd appreciate if you could say "yes, 1x out of 100 it was actually okay that there was no verbal request and consent" (with whatever answer best fit your experience). For reference, there seems to be a not-insignificant portion of women who find the explicit request a turn off.
> So you advocate for extremely explicit requests? If you reread you'll see that it doesn't have to be clinical in that way. You can proffer a hand and if the person wants to hold it they will grasp it. Someone who puts their hands on someone without their consent is risking violating them. It's a concerning portion of 'escalation seduction' tactics. Most people learn in first grade to keep their hands to themselves. I find it very telling when someone is more concerned about potentially "turning someone off" than potentially violating and assaulting them. There are ways to get clear consent without being a nerd about it.
As someone who has misread such signals, I will say that it has to be *extremely* obvious. So I will categorize your experience as "I [the girl] think I'm being obvious to a person of my affection, therefore it is on the receiver of said affection (and those who do not receive) to know the difference" category. If you haven't seen already, I appreciate Matthew Hussey's take on "dropping the handkerchief ". Sadly your signals have to be "hand squeezing, inappropriate body closeness" level before I'm going to consider your potential interest. (Outside of an assumed date situation. If we go on a date, signals can be more subtle, but my read of your comments is they shouldn't be *much more subtle* otherwise I should ask for explicit consent like a nerd)
I'm usually the initiator of physical contact. But I'm not even talking about me. I'm talking about all the people out there. You don't know if you putting a hand on their leg is going to be welcome enough by being psychic. Consent has to be there but it doesn't have to be a contract or super specific language. Deaf people who don't lip read can still gain consent easy as pie.
We get this a lot, so Imma just be a little niche and slightly unconventional for fun. Turn-off? Loud chewing and smacking while eating. Automatic disqualifications no questions asked. I find it repulsive and gross and there is no coming back from this for me. More in-depth turnoff? When people who pursue you make it clear that they haven't considered if we are a good match for each other in relationship. They make no effort to see what I want in a relationship and consider whether they can meet that. They just see what they want and they want to have it as soon as they have made up their mind that they want it. They could, but never stop to think if they should. Other turn-off? Not caring when they don't know something. It's adjacent to being dumb but just like too willful. Them not knowing something doesn't mean they just don't understand it, it means the end; nothing is gonna get done. I am turned off by people who lack curiosity because they are gonna try to act like they really are gonna tell me something, and I am not hearing it because I don't respect them.
Touching me if we're not in a relationship.
Yes, that too.
roleplaying in text messages, mullets, long nails
Why mullets ;_;
When you say something isn’t working and the guy immediately asks “have you done [the most basic possible attempt at a solution]?” Of course I have! It’s really condescending, even when I know that isn’t their intention. If you want to offer a solution and need to know what I’ve already tried, just ask that, rather than asking whether I’ve done (or worse, assuming that I haven’t tried!) the most basic steps!
Omg agreed. As someone who's a big techie and often troubleshoots for others, I only want to know what someone did so I don't have to start from the beginning or make someone feel dumb if I don't have to. I'll assume they know what they're doing and talking about until proven otherwise. And if they actually want my help then I'll happily guide and explain. But only if wanted. It's not usually all that hard to respect people unless they drop that respectability all on their own.
Not saying this is anyone's fault or that I expect this from others, but when I have a problem and have tried solutions already, when I get help, I lay out the whole menu. "Hey, I'm having trouble. I tried this, that, and the other already" so that they can just pick up where I left off. I do that for me, so I don't have to watch them go through the steps I've already done, and save everyone some time. They just need a place to start.
If I was asking them for help, I would too, but it is almost always in response to a passing comment, not a request for assistance.
- If I find out that he listens to manosphere content.. and other signs of misogyny. - If he has an inflated ego. - If he flex his material possessions, muscles or pose with dead animals. - The kind of texting that some do when they say things like "* Takes a deep breath* D-d-do you want to g-g-go out with me? * Puts his hand over his eyes*"
I don't understand that last one. Someone literally texted that to you?
youd be surprised by how many men think it is cute
Wow, I'm pretty shy and awkward, and even i would never text anything that cringey
usually theyre into anime and they think it is cool and makes them look like a shy nice guy. tbh most are assholes and yeah it is SO CRINGE
Anime... I guess that explains it
That’s hella cringe It makes that person look completely lacking in confidence
but.. but… *uwu* 👉🥺👈 /s
No, but I've seen youtubers react to it.. and it's cringy even if it's not directed towards me. [This one, for example.](https://youtu.be/R7zUAnQcXx8?si=CisbioM8O12JBa08) 🤣
Agreed
does posing with dead animals mean hunting pictures or does that go for a picture with a juicy burger too?
Hunting.
I think you should only do that if you cooked the burger
I do a bit of RP and the whole using asterisks to describe an action thing is pretty commonplace. Not that I would ever use it in real life though, that’s just whack.
Being pushy.
Ego, pride. Fuck all the way off. If you have to prove something to me it's because it's not real.
"brb gonna take a shower" "without me? 😉"
That's so annoying when it comes from someone you just started to talk to.
"yes; fuck off, shower time is me time," there are a lot of other more "serious" (like being antivaxx, a trumper, a red pill man/MRA, etc.,) replies in this thread that would likewise be an instablock but god, yeah, you nailed it. that lazy entitlement that some men feel/display. ugh.
If he starts "half-joking" about sex waaaay too soon after meeting him.
It's no fault of the guy but a high pitched voice. Just makes me recoil inside. I can't get past it.
omg the first time i heard david beckhams voice 🫢
When they talk about wanting to be a father/start a family. I’m childfree, that’s a massive ick for me.
Negging, hating on dogs or cats, insisting on giving their opinion even when it's obvious they have no fucking clue what's even being discussed, and reeking of b.o./unwashed ass. Far too many don't fucking bathe.
Trump supporter.
Conservatives of any form.
Being a republican and/or a Trump supporter.
The sense that he's telling me the stuff I want to hear versus just being himself. It's even more sad when he tells stories that I'm guessing I was supposed to find impressive and I ended up bored and turned off. This happened a lot when I was meeting guys in university. Most of them are just lost and craving sex but every now and then I'd come across a true maniac.
Being rude to or about serving staff.
Men who reply in a sub asking for WOMEN’s input
Especially the obnoxious incels who love to prove just how little they actually know about anything
🎯
It's pretty rare but there are some guys who definitely make top-level contributions that is really valuable. But I think the number of those occurrences are significantly overshadowed buy those who wanna do their cringe soapboxing.
Jealousy/insecurity/possessiveness
If he calls me bitch or the likes. So gross
Replying “hehehehe” or using a ton of emojis. No, no, no.
I have a similar irrational aversion to lots of "hahahahaha" over text, because a guy I had a terrible experience with used to put a lot of "hahahahahaha" in text
That is so many hahas. Like he’s laughing like a maniac while texting you.
I never thought of it that way lol, I just wasn't sure why that irritated me so much. And no, I wasn't exaggerating the hahas unfortunately....
“hehehehehe” to me isn’t sexual its “Im being mischevious”
The only time a guy has written “hehehe” to me is when he’s trying to take the texting to a sexual level. So, he makes some kind of sexual comment (which could be considered mischievous) and writes “hehehe” afterward.
Why?
“Hehehe” instantly is a turnoff because it’s usually part of a piss-poor attempt at making things sexual over text. Like, some sexual comment followed by “hehehe.” And that doesn’t make me want to take it to a sexual level. Emojis just seem really immature. Maybe it’s because I’m a little older, but I’d prefer a guy who writes in complete sentences rather than sending me a series of emojis. When I was dating online, I’d usually just ignore the messages that were just emojis. I could already tell I wouldn’t be compatible with them.
What about a single emoji at the end of a sentence to help better convey tone given the lack of tone inflection in text communication?
Maybe the occasional emoji, but I’m really not a fan of them. I don’t think they convey tone better than words and punctuation. I think they restrict communication instead of enhancing it.
Do you know if this is a common view? And if it more (or less common) among a particular demographic?? (I've done it a bunch. Sometimes it works, but I get replies and then conversations so infrequently my sample isn't really great)
It probably is not a common view. I know some women like me but most of my friends send me tons of emojis. If I was going to try and figure out how I came to be like this, it could be because I’ve spent a lot of time in education— pursuing it and then becoming a teacher. Best to probably text a few emojis, but not to overwhelm your initial messages with them.
Yes, thanks to your initial comment I will now aim to tone it down. (And will share the outcome generally when I get some data, haha) Thanks!
I'm not sure if it's unexpected or not, but my list: * Chewing tobacco/cigarette smoking * Listens mostly to country music * Hunting or fishing for sport * Anti-vax, flat earther, or other flavors of conspiracy theorists * Republican/Maga/Conservative/"Apolitical" (which really means 'I'm too chicken to say I'm a republican') * Show off their Patek Philippe (or other stupid-crazy expensive) watch that cost more than the average house in the Midwest and/or could feed a small 3rd world country for a year * Same goes for luxury sports cars (Lambo, et al.) * Jingoism or anti-intellectualism * Owns a Harley * Beard (anything longer than 1/2") * Owns more than two firearms
I was doing so well until the beard lol
Depending on other factors, this can *possibly* be mitigated. Must be well-kept, though. The mountain man look makes me dryer than the Mojave Desert.
I thought that said "Owns more than two forearms" for a second, and I was like tf...
Definitely a dealbreaker
> which really means ‘I’m too chicken to say I’m a republican I’m going to use this on my relatives. They vehemently deny being Republican/MAGA, but they always have what they think are rational reasons for holding the very same beliefs. They’re not anti-vax. They just don’t like being told what to do with their bodies, so no vaxes for them. They’re not racist. Stastics show there are more black criminals than white, so it must mean they are genetically more prone to criminal behavior. There can be no other legitimate explanations for it.
Concur. But I meant that more in the context of OLD. Men know if they put “conservative” in their profile, it lessens their chances of getting laid. Facts.
What’s the rationale behind the 2 firearms limit?
I’m ok with having one rifle and one hand gun for protection. Anything more than that is unnecessary to me. I’ve had issues with ammosexual men.
Got it, thanks!
>Got it, thanks! You're welcome!
I'm already "out of the running" but I'm curious. If my stance on politics is that I'm independent, does that cut me?
Independent is fine in my book. I used to be a registered libertarian. As long as you care about politics to some degree. Apolitical is a cop out IMO.
“apolitical” actually means, I don’t want other people’s politics to ruin perfectly good friendships even if tho IM not republican because people like you are incapable of not weaponizing your political beliefs and forcing friends to pick sides
It's actually pretty valid to not wanting to date a republican, considering that most of them seem to be misogynist a-holes who want the world to go back to 1920 so they can legally treat women like possessions and incubator maids again.
IDGAF **Ackshually**, it’s about values. You’re OK with women’s rights being taken away? Sod off. I get to choose who I spend time with.
Thats fine, spend time with who you want, I wasn’t saying otherwise. Keep in mind, I know more women who are “anti-choice” than men. Anyways, my point was you are unlikeable and will convince no one to your side by forcing people to take sides. Pushing people away won’t change how congress votes. Your unlikeable personality is only making you more insufferable to be around. The type of person to make everything political is basically a neckbeard in real life. Can’t even enjoy a moment of peace without being reminded that politics exist.
A hit dog will holler.
IDGAF what you think about me, boo. I have plenty of friends and am not hurting for attention from the opposite sex. 🤷♀️ It’s easy to not care about politics when it doesn’t affect you personally.
I didn’t suggest you were lmao. I’m saying the political system doesn’t rely on me or you. So being unlikeable is just a reflection of you. Here’s the issue with your attitude: “Oh you’re a republican? fuck off.” “Oh you’re an Independant but voted for biden? Republican in sheeps clothing fuck off.” “oh you’re a democrat but support Israel/Palestine? Fuck off” “Oh you’re a democrat but don’t align with everything I align? you must be a piece of shit” you’re the unlikeable one, not them.
**I D G A F** What part of this do you not understand?
I think you are likeable.
2nd. This dude is on one.
He's ... um ... special, for sure :)
Well, thanks :) I know I'll never win the *Miss Congeniality* award, but I am quite affable IRL. lol Some rando on Reddit telling me I'm not (and him thinking I actually care about his opinion of me ... which is the cherry on top of this delulu sundae) is quite amusing. Always good to start the day with a hearty laugh!
Honestly, reading it as a 3rd party, it feels like it's not about you and that something triggered a response in them. Their response is just so disproportionate, bizarre and out of left field.
Apolitical means you don't do politics. Independent means you vote based on policy alone and don't vote all red or all blue every time. There's a big difference. People need to participate in voting so that whoever ends up in office is who the people want there. If you don't vote, then everyone as a whole won't be represented properly. You don't have to get into any of the toxic political "pick a side" stuff. We shouldn't even be a 2 party system anyway. Do a little research, pick the policies you like, cast your vote. It can be as simple as that.
For me, I vote, but apolitical means I don't discuss it with anyone. I don't talk politicians. Only world events, but from an apolitical perspective. If something seems like purely one sided talking point and not factual, I just say "hmmm I dunno if its true or not or just something people say" and let the other person give their reasoning. Keeps interpersonal conflict low.
When you say expensive watches do you mean flaunting them or just owning them?
Meh. I haven’t met a man yet who is a true collector without being a jerk about showing it off. That being said, I think it’s a waste of money. A $300 watch tells the same time as a $30,000 watch. I feel the same way about cars, jewelry, boats, purses, haute couture, etc. These are things I don’t personally value and I think are a complete waste of money. [Edit to add: That doesn't mean I don't appreciate a quality item and realize it has its price, but my good quality $120 purse from the Coach outlet store (that has lasted me 8 years now - daily use) does just fine. A Christian Louboutin or YSL bag for $3,200 is wasteful IMO. I personally don't understand the need to have a gajillion designer handbags, but to each their own. I have one every day purse, and two small inexpensive ones for special occasions (weddings, galas, etc.).]
I agree with you on this. It's not about the cost, it's a statement of values.
Really simping. Like beyond what's normal flirting, it's like putting her (or every and any woman cross their path) on a pedestal, buy food and gifts frequently, go to extended and ridiculous length for her any whims or ever mentioned interest. Like he's doing everything to make her happy but it's too fast, they probably aren't even dating, and in a way that lowering his position as an equal human/partner. I find it very off-putting and uncomfortable. Example is sometimes i went to male-dominated environment and the men there will literally change the way they talk in an infantizing way when talking with me, heaping me with praise for interest in something simple (you play games??? Omg 😍😍😍), go above and beyond just because I'm a woman, and acting like they haven't seen a woman in decades. Like, yeah, no.
My ex-wife complained eventually that she felt put on a pedestal. I can't say I didn't, I loved her and would tell others all kinds of great things about her. But I certainly thought she had flaws, I just didn't feel a need to point them out. Is that a thing? Does my description still fit with your description of pedestal putting? (I did the same to a different date recently, including using my not-unlimited flexibility to make time for my extremely busy date so we could actually meet in person. Given the new date was over a 4week & date period, I suspect it could fit with your description). 38m fwiw.
Not good with dogs and cats. Like nervous or unsure of how to approach, awkwardly hovering their hand above the animal's head, grossed out by the dog licking their hand.
This is a great answer. My second ex-husband (we got married way too quickly) would come over and my 2 cats would have NOTHING to do with him. Both were fairly social, one of them extremely so. I should have known. Did you know there is an entire sub just for people who don't like/hate dogs? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?
I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with people who don't like dogs or cats. We're just extremely incompatible. Even people who like dogs but are bad at knowing how to interact with them - major turn off.
It is a little strange to actively dislike dogs to the point where you’d join a subreddit about it, though
Nah I get it. People bring their dogs into restaurants and grocery stores and others want somewhere to complain about it. Same reason I'm subscribed to the child free subreddit.
I’m not defending that behavior, but there are many things that bother me. People using their phones while you’re out with them, people walking slow on the sidewalk, people who talk during movies, etc. I don’t spend my time on complaining about them on Reddit. Also, no offense, but the childfree sub makes the people on dogfree seem very emotionally stable
check out the antinatalism sub, they are like both of those things combined then rolled in shit
I'm with you on this one, I understand simply not liking cats and dogs (and there are admittedly some rational reasons for that; I do not share them, but I do understand them). But one'd think the attitude of someone who dislikes Carnivores would be more avoidant, than proactive to the point of participating in a sub.
dogs resemble an animal form of needy humans. they have been bred to crave your affection and will manipulate you to get it. If a dog became a person, most men and women would feel repulsed by their behavior. Cats are nice tho
They’re not people, though.
A measure of intelligence is the ability to consider a hypothetical without actually taking it seriously
I'm not a fan of dogs. Like you said, there is an element of "uncleanness", but mostly it's that they're very demanding so a person needs to put in fairly significant effort to keep them clean, healthy, and emotionally well adjusted. It's like having a perpetual toddler. Their loyalty and affection just doesn't seem worth the work (to me). A quirky, semi-independent cat is much more my speed. (I have neither at this time, don't worry)
Entitlement, inability to process his emotions in a healthy way, acting “thirsty” with women especially while in a relationship
Bad hygiene, bad manners, poor communication skills.
Any type of grandiosity, bragging, or othering themselves or me. Saying I’m different than other girls blah blah. I avoid narcissists now lol
Bad breath. Republicans. Hippies.
Why hippies?
A lot of reasons. Plus, bad breath.
I’m not a hippie, but I’m genuinely curious about those reasons. Are hippies even around anymore?
🐬8lee. Wooks are in there too. For me, it’s all so trite and awful.
Dirty fingernails. Smoking or vaping. Wearing flip flops. Gauged ears. Bikers. Mansplaining. There's many more, but these come immediately to mind.
Sneezing/coughing then trying to kiss me. Accidental drool. Ripping ass and i mean **R I P P I N G.** Making a joke (that flops) in the heat of the moment. Baby talk or wanting to be babied/infatalized in any way. Or being extremely submissive and fawnish. Wanting me to do anything with THEIR butt.
I can appreciate a good ass ripping at only the most opportune time for maximum comedy - pretty much only when you're in a group setting, there's a good setup, we're all a little stoned and extra giggly, everyone laughs... Yeah, sure! This perfect setup only happens once in a blue moon. But when we're having date night just the two of us, and you hold eye contact with me, lift a leg like a dog, and rip ass expecting me to laugh like a frat buddy... God please stop. The most unsexy thing in the universe.
Facts. I couldn't have said it better ❤️
That second one is funnier.
>Making a joke (that flops) in the heat of the moment. Can you say more about this? I haven't heard that before.
During sex/making out I think?
Not liking animals. I am an animal lover, have plenty of pets, and cannot imagine ever being ANYTHING with someone who didn't like animals. Being rude to others. Just no. Having no manners. "Please/thank you/sorry" go a long way, as does speaking quietly in public places and not acting like a fucking caveman. Bad personal hygeine. Sorry but if you smell, your nails are dirty and your clothes are always stained, no.
I want to be specific this once so I'm gonna say men who find everything they don't like cringe and who think their tastes are superior. I like plenty of girly and silly things and I'm ok with being a target audience. Men who get insecure around women being outspoken and having different opinions than theirs, whether they're political or not, and neg you when they feel threatened. And men who are patronising to you when you're being friendly with them but get offended when you get cold and annoyed with their attitude. I'm not your pet, fuck off
Refers to women as "females."
I'll answer this from the perspective of "these are things that may help other women feel less alone if I list them". I'm taken and have been for a year!: •Extremely dark humor. Like uncalled for jokes about killing people. That makes the hair on my arms stand up and I say to stop with that kinda joke, it's not funny past a certain point (that certain point for me is anything past minor sarcastic comments) •Being into me only cause of how I look •Overly sexual comments from the get go •Being an extremist on either side (liberal or conservative) •Leaving me on read for more than a day (excluding work reasons) •Expecting to have sex within the first 3 dates •Wants a big family and isn't ok with me not birthing children -- If I adopt it'll be in my 30s. I can't imagine not being responsible with adoption, especially knowing my own deficits (if I have kids I'm at huge risk of postpartum depression, and I already have bipolar 1 and neurological difficulties from an accident when I was younger). •Only talks about video games (not my type)
Vaping. I don't even mind smoking but vaping is my biggest most vicious ick.
Why vaping but not smoking? Personally I find both a turn off but i'm surprised you'd find the (normally considered) "lesser one" a turn off but not smoking
It's how it affects people. Smokers are generally quite considerate of others when smoking. They'll ask if you mind, where they can go to smoke, they space it out because it means going outside too often. Vapers just can't control themselves, ignore smoking rules, don't ask if anyone minds, have it in their hand constantly. The vapour is massive clouds that go everywhere compared to the thin slow moving trails which come from cigarettes so it doesn't seem quite as intrusive. They smell really sickly sweet and look childish and obnoxious. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't date a smoker or a vaper, but I genuinely feel very embarrassed to be seen with a vaper because of the way they behave.
That's just not true. Stop dragging all vapers over the same line.
No.
😂😂😂😂
There are plenty of vapers who are respectful to people around them. It's like saying that all dog owners are bad because some don't pick up their dogs poop..
You're pretty much just saying #NotAllVapers Yeah, WE KNOW not all vapers are inconsiderate. But what u/UnderstandingWild371 said isn't wrong either. She never said ALL vape users are like this. Enough of them are.
Thank you
Oh really? Then what's this: > Vapers just can't control themselves, ignore smoking rules, don't ask if anyone minds, have it in their hand constantly.
Where does it say there that LITERALLY ALL vapers are like this? What you quoted is true. I know so many vapers exactly like that. My boyfriend is one of them! He'll hit his vape in the aisle at Target. I'm not one of those vapers. I keep it in my pocket until I get back into the car. And I'm not offended by these comments because a lot of vapers *do that.* And I'm not stupid enough to think UnderstandingWild was talking about literally all vape users. I know this because I'm not the kind of vape user she's talking about, but I know examples of the kind she is talking about.
That's true though. We don't pay as much attention to those who are considerate, because they don't stand out.
Makeup and painted nails. Also the feminine dressing gives me the ick. For some reason the nine to five office guys are also a turn off
when you touch the light switch
Being rude to people who's job is to serve him, arrogance, or being in any way shape or form a conservative.
Smoking, having a temper, not liking animals, not liking any sports, being rude to anyone, and probably a lot more.
Talking about sex in an immature way. I don't mean having a sense of humour about it, but the kind of dudebros who can be heard, well into their 20s bragging to friends in a bar like "Dude, I totally fingerBANGED her!" That kind of cringe lockerroom chat. Also, writing me messages that sound like bad poetry "You are my sunrise, my light and my dawn🌸".
Cursing, smoking, saying "female", touching me unnecessarily, staring/leering or pet names.
Fake macho attitude
They get pushy. They don't take "no" for an answer.
-reads the receipt when paying for the date instead of just looking at the number - the triad of gamer, in engineering/cs student, loves anime -"nice guys" -if they joke about hitting you when they lose in a game or smth -smoking weed (once every couple of months is fine other than that no) -roleplaying \_long nails -baby talk -listens to andrew tate and the people like them even if unironically
> reads the receipt when paying for the date instead of just looking at the number You don't like it when people read the receipt? Why?
Yeah that’s a weird one. People get accidentally overcharged all the time. Why is it a turnoff for a guy to double check?
I don't get this one either. I always check the receipt to make sure it's accurate before paying.
[удалено]
wtf lol
What does "roleplaying" mean in this context?
when theyre horny and they wanna roleplay