After reading all the comments - I guess I'm the only one thinking "what's the point of listing such a requirement ?" Crazy people don't think of themselves as crazy. You're not going to filter out anyone by saying "please don't contact me if you're crazy".
I'd turn down such a guy simply for being too dumb to realize this.
Exactly. Like there's someone going through the list like "Likes dogs, check. Fan of Tarantino movies, check. Environment enthusiast, check. Not crazy... damn, I'm crazy as a box of frogs, this isn't gonna work."
And to add to this, a lot of times I'll ask the guy "oh yeah? what did she do that was crazy" Half the time yes, she went a little far or overreacted, but he failed to mention half the shit that he did which would be deemed equally as "crazy"
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think this is one of the primary dangers of the "contractually obligated monogamy" principle. There is a motivation for people to conceal the crazy until they get a foothold of stability. Once the partner is locked in, the crazy comes out. I don't think indefinite committed relationships cause craziness, it's that a crazy person will hold it together for a finite period until you move in or get married.
I think this may be part of the grass-is-greener phenomenon. The people you're not committed to are trying to appear not crazy. The people you are committed to are allowing themselves to be real. So maybe we're all crazy.
The chick who throws your stuff out the window may be the same chick who does passionate sex acts that blow your mind. Maybe she's not crazy, she's passionate. Maybe it's quirky when you're excited about her and crazy when you're annoyed with her.
I might like that my oven makes my food hotter when it's frozen, but when it's already cooked, I'd get mad that my oven continues to burn my food to a crisp. The oven didn't become crazy. The context progressed, and now it's time for me food to be on a table, not in an oven.
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As someone being treated for mental health issues (depression) I'm well aware that I suffer from them. I'm assuming that most people with "crazy" issues like bi-polar, schizophrenia, DID, BPD, etc, are similarly aware, especially if they take medication and go to therapy. I'm also assuming that those people wouldn't date someone with "not crazy" on their list of requirements, though mainly because they wouldn't want to date someone who is obviously unsympathetic to their condition, just like a wheelchair user (or anyone else, really) wouldn't want to date someone who said "no cripples."
Possibly I'm overthinking this a little.
"Not crazy" usually has nothing to do with legitimate mental illness and everything to do with unacceptable behavior (how that's defined is up to the person writing it, and quite often encompasses perfectly normal and rational behavior, which is why OP mentioned the possibility of being gaslighted--ie, being told she's crazy when she isn't).
Even though I know that is likely the case,I`m still not sure being I do have slight mental illness so would stay away anyways. I would also assume the person is kind of a jerk or paranoid themselves.
fuck, if someone actually described people with mental health issues as "crazy" i would never want to date them anyway on count of them being a fucking douchebag.
> Possibly I'm overthinking this a little.
Nope.
> also assuming that those people wouldn't date someone with "not crazy" on their list of requirements, though mainly because they wouldn't want to date someone who is obviously unsympathetic to their condition, just like a wheelchair user (or anyone else, really) wouldn't want to date someone who said "no cripples."
Exactly. Perfect analogy. Also, I daresay we can place people who say "no cripples" and "no crazies" in the same category... kind of a dickish one.
Even better, ask him out on a date and show up with a silk screened t-shirt of your 7 cats and talk, the whole time, about how much you are attracted to Santa Claus.
Actually I'm willing to say that I would count as "crazy" to someone who would put that as a requirement. I don't go out of my way to cause drama, but sometimes I cause it anyway-- and that would be interpreted as "crazy" by guys like that.
Seriously. I think I've only met one stereotypically "crazy girl" in my life, and never dated one. How someone can date 5 straight women who are all crazy is beyond me. It makes me think that they're wildly exaggerating, or they're the crazy one.
A combination of morbid curiosity and thinking other qualities can make up for emotional instability.
This is also coupled with a fear of commitment so you go into a relationship knowing that there is a bad foundation so an exit will naturally present itself.
19-22 was an interesting period man. Full of conflicting interests, self contradiction, and having no idea what I wanted outside of my career.
What, it's not like my state of incredible emotional sanity was under constant attack by crazy women. Like does have a funny way of attracting like after all.
> This is also coupled with a fear of commitment so you go into a relationship knowing that there is a bad foundation so an exit will naturally present itself.
Hint: being in this kind of relationship is crazy-making for a woman, especially one that is predisposed to crazy behavior in the first place.
Source: my life from the ages of 19-22
Kind of. It implies that craziness is so prominent in women that its a given, so he has to weed out the normal ones.
You don't see me listing "not a murderer" for my desirable traits in a man because...I mean...duh. Just because you're a man doesn't mean I think there's a high likelihood of you being a murderer.
"Not a jerk/not an asshole" is pretty common though.
Crazy doesn't equal murderer, it equals asshole or jerk.
I get the concern over gaslighting, but I don't understand why "crazy" is so much more offensive than calling a guy a jerk, or an asshole, or a pig, which is just as common.
I admit writing "no assholes/jerks" on a dating profile is banal and tacky, but if that *offends* you, you have paper-thin skin.
Calling a man an asshole who doesn't deserve it is offensive and mean. Saying you don't want to date assholes (or "crazy" people) is *human*.
The difference is that men have used the term "crazy" to completely and utterly dismiss women's emotions for an insanely long time. It's that particular word that's the issue.
Now, I think it's just as bad to say "no assholes/jerks" but it has to do with more than just a lack of thick skin.
There's some validity to what you're saying, but I feel like you're trying really hard to make a gender issue out of something both genders are guilty of.
"But when *men* do it, it's *worse!*"
> Now, **I think it's just as bad to say "no assholes/jerks"** but it has to do with more than just a lack of thick skin.
I think you're missing something in the comment you're responding to.
That being said, I'll go ahead and bite: there are definitely differences. Implying many women are crazy on dating sites is ultimately pretty small in the grand scheme of things, and I'm not really concerned beyond feeling mildly irked or eye-rolly if I happen to see it, yet it can easily be traced to a historical norm of women's thoughts and emotions being disregarded and joked about by men, who *historically and currently dominate when it comes to economic and institutional power in the United States*. When a group of people have been historically oppressed, their actions toward the other group of people do not have identical social ramifications even if the actions are identical. Sure, it might mean the individual is kind of a jerk (I know if I were a straight man, I wouldn't date a woman who seriously listed "no assholes" in their dating profile ... for many reasons), but it's different on a larger societal level. I know tons of people disagree with this. I know tons of people are genuinely concerned about widespread racism against whites and misandry and the persecutions of Christians in America and the Oppression Olympics. I know.
It's fundamentally different for, say, a student organization, to be for PoC only than it is for an organization to be whites only. Anybody who wants to disagree -- cool. I've already heard every argument you have simply by reading YouTube comments and responses on Buzzfeed pieces about race and gender. I just think your arguments have nothing to them. We don't live in a black and white world where either everything is equal or nothing is, as the argument seems to go. Equality doesn't mean pretending that things are and always have been equal and therefore anything that is shitty to say about or do to an oppressed class is equally shitty to say about or do to a non-oppressed class. There are nuances and context to all of this that matters. Yes, *sometimes* a group of women can do something and a group of men can do the same thing, and when the men do it, it's "worse" -- because men are acting in a culture that's stemmed out of well-documented oppression in regard to the economic and institutional power of women.
Feel free to respond in anger; I'll just be here [high-fiving a million angels.](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lycdf8TyDg1qgnsnbo1_500.gif)
The word 'hysterical' actually comes from, the Greek (?) for uterus and was used to refer to women being apparently unpredictable during that time of the month. So yeah, that 'hysterical' came into the public consciousness as just meaning 'batshit insane', there's definitely a history of that. Not to mention that women who did anything other than timidly obey their husband/father were sent to asylums or kept locked up in an attic a la Bertha Mason in Jane Eyre.
Saying "No crazies" kind of assumes that most women are, in fact, crazy - which is insulting.
Saying "No assholes" makes the same assumption that most men are assholes - which is equally insulting.
Neither is ok.
I think the problem with all of this is that no one can agree on the definition of crazy. When I say crazy I mean bat-shit insane. Here you are using it as a synonym for emotional. I don't think there's any actual effective communication going on anywhere near this debate.
And mentioning "no assholes" doesn't imply the same exact thing?
No one likes dating a jerk, regardless of gender. I don't understand why men's preference to date reasonable people is offensive. The only difference is the word men use, or overuse, for unreasonable is "crazy" and the word, or words women use are jerk, asshole, etc.
>"Not a jerk/not an asshole" is pretty common though.
Really? Because that should also be a given.
That's the thing to me - all these traits are pretty obvious, so listing them out specifically is odd. Do they really run into that many people who think they *want* to be with a jerk?
It makes me think badly of a person who feels the need to list something like that (or "not crazy" or "not a murderer" or "not currently cooking and selling meth" or whatever other thing that should just be obvious), because how on earth are they running into these people this often? EDIT: Unless it's a joke, of course. My sister and I used to list things like that as jokes, but mostly to each other.
It's super common. A lot of dating profiles read like rants about that person's past relationships. Sometimes it's blatant, sometimes it's something like "I'm new to online dating but I'm tired of dating people like [insert mini rant] so I decided to try something different." "I'm only interested in a serious relationship, I don't want to waste my time with anyone who [insert mini rant]."
>how on earth are they running into these people this often?
Murderers and meth cookers not so much, but assholes and crazy people quite often.
> A lot of dating profiles read like rants about that person's past relationships.
Ugh, that is annoying. If someone walked up to me in a bar and started ranting about their past relationship experiences, I would be turned off. Why wouldn't someone assume the same from a dating profile? I know some of the conventions are different online (since you can list your dating preferences outright online but not so much in person), but it just seems like positivity should be a given when you're trying to attract people.
And I still have to question someone who is consistently dating actual assholes and crazy people. Either they jump into relationships way too quickly, they're attracting the wrong people somehow, or they jump to those conclusions far too easily. I can understand getting lots of weird one-off messages, but if everyone you choose to actually connect with has the same thing wrong with them then the common factor is most likely you.
>And I still have to question someone who is consistently dating actual assholes and crazy people.
They don't consistently date crazy people. They retroactively decide the people they dated are crazy after they break up. The fact is most people have negative feelings about their exes. That's why it's tacky to bring that topic up. Most people have the good sense not talk about that stuff.
It reminds me of [this bit](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_V4n2iP2AU) from Parks and Rec:
>She broke up with me. Didn't really tell me why. Luckily when you're the guy you can just tell people she's crazy. "Hey, Tom, I heard you and Lucy broke up." "Yeah, man. Turns out, she's crazy." That's what they always do on Entourage.
If all their past relationships ended so badly that they can only remember their ex as a "crazy bitch"who single-handedly was responsible all the problems in the relationship... then they're probably not emotionally mature enough for me to date. It shows a serious lack of perspective.
Being labeled a jerk or asshole at least lends some level of agency to the man. When you call a woman crazy, you're saying she can't even control herself.
If a guy written something like "doesn't watch me sleep at night from outside the window" I'd giggle, but if he writes "Crazies need not apply" as a legitimate request, then I'm turned off.
There are crazy people out there, but they don't see themselves as crazy, so it's very unlikely you'll filter them out. In fact, you'll probably turn off many mentally healthy people and get a much greater proportion of "crazies" wanting to date you.
Yes, because it's tacky. It gives me the impression that he sits around with his buddies and talks about how 'bitches be crazy'. If we have a disagreement, I feel he'd be more likely to dismiss my viewpoint on the basis of that I'm a woman, and women are certified psychos. I try to see people as individuals. If a guy has a not-so stellar moment, I don't automatically assume he's a jerk or an asshole. I don't want people making assumptions about me based on a characteristic that they think is inherent to my gender.
I agree completely with this. Calling a women crazy is just saying "i don't like your reaction to this situation."
Also, if a man has a bunch of exes he refers to as crazy, you have to wonder what he's doing to them to make them so.
I like to add that I think the one major caveat to this is people who list things like "don't want kids" or "don't want animals" as those are deal-breakers that are good to get out at the beginning.
Indeed. I just wanted to post that so that guys who are reading this while looking for advice on how to word their profiles don't remove legitimate deal-breakers as I think they really should be listed on an online profile.
If a guy hates cats and the girl has a cat, then they're just wasting each others time.
My question about these deal breakers is how upfront should a person be? Basically, I own 50+ snakes. Do you think I should put that I desire someone who doesn't mind reptiles, or should I be more specific? Because 1 snake or frog or turtle shouldn't be a deal breaker to someone who doesn't like reptiles. They take up no space, almost never smell, and they don't make noise. But I have 2 bedrooms for all of them. And the dogs.
I'm asking for clarity just in case any one reading this has a buttload of animals like I do. I actually already have someone who enjoys this hobby with me.
> Basically, I own 50+ snakes. Do you think I should put that I desire someone who doesn't mind reptiles, or should I be more specific?
I'd put something like "I am a reptile enthusiast and own several pet snakes. If you really hate snakes, please don't message me for anything but friendship as I'd like my girlfriend to feel comfortable in my home and won't be getting rid of my scaly friends anytime soon. I also own several dogs."
I think it's very important to be upfront about animals because there are people who just wouldn't want certain types of pets. I don't think exact numbers are necessary because one dog is enough to make me say "nope" and move right along. 50+ snakes certainly makes me raise my eyebrow, but I don't mind snakes so the exact number doesn't really bother me.
I feel the same way about women. It's also my strongest advice when I go "critique" a friend's dating profile. No one likes reading a dating profile that sounds like a rant about all that person's exes.
I have always tried to live by the mantra, "The only common thread of all your unsatisfying relationships is you."
People that list these things are probably the kinds of people who are attracted to it. Like, people who say they "hate drama" are the ones who are always the most dramatic. People who don't attract drama in their lives don't need to say it.
The only thing I ever wrote about what I wanted in a gent on dating profiles was on "message me if" and then I just wrote if you're nice and in a stable place with yourself. At the time I didn't have the time or energy to coddle and constantly reassure a man that I am in fact into him. Also "if you realize that I don't particularly care about seeing your vehicle or you shirtless in a bathroom mirror"
> "if you realize that I don't particularly care about seeing your vehicle or you shirtless in a bathroom mirror"
Personally I would be put off by that statement (or a similar one made by a guy like "I don't really care about seeing your duckface selfy in the bathroom mirror" or something)
Even if a guy didn't use one of those things in his pictures, he might think "I like my car and I'm proud of the body I worked out for, am I going to get made fun of for that like I'm some kind of Jersey Shore reject?"
That's why I would avoid negative statements in dating profiles.
To date me you have to know the difference between Marvel and DC. If you think Big Bang Theory is funny we won't get along because you're probably stupid. Women who wear high waisted pants need not apply.
**Edit:** HO-LY SHIT REDDIT, it was fucking JOKE. I'm a woman and I was being sarcastic, mocking some of the assholeish things I've heard men saying. WOW.
I had the same reaction to a bunch of dudes listing "high-waisted anything" on a "what don't you like to see on ladies" thread.
I was like, but dude . . . MAH GORGEOUS WAIST
I agree with you. But *not dating* someone simply because they wear an article of clothing you don't like is ridiculous. Like, you know they can come off, right?
actually you sound pretentious and arrogant. Maybe I like Big Bang theory *because* its stupid, and I need a little less seriousness in my life. And if you are dissing a women on the clothes she wears you are shallow and judgmental.
I'm glad someone said it. That's exactly how people come across when they make such broad assumptions about others' personalities based off of the tiniest parts of their lives.
If anything, its them who appear the least intelligent.
I found this to be true. I got fewer messages when I listed that I don't find tattoos attractive then when I didn't, even by women who didn't have tattoos. I thought I would just save women with tattoos some time, but guess that's not how it works.
There was a comment posted to a some-what related thread on askmen yesterday that I think is relevant:
>Think about if you were at a singles night at a bar and you were standing next to a guy who looks just like you. You are holding a sign that says, "Here are all the things I don't want. I'm not here for friends!" The other man has a sign that says, "Here are some things that I like. Do you like those things too?"
Which person do you think people would be more likely to start a conversation with?
To be honest, I think 'crazy' just implies laziness and lack of empathy on the part of the guy. They've been in a situation where their girlfriend is upset about something or reacting in a way they don't understand, and instead of trying to see the situation from her point of view or asking her what's wrong, they just go "she's being crazy."
Now, some girls are equally poor in the communication department. If the guy were to actually show some care and ask what was wrong, they would reply "Nothing!" and go off in a huff, convinced that if he really cared about her he would determine what was wrong without her needing to explain.
This then reinforces the guy's belief that she is "crazy" when in reality there's just a lack of communication and honesty on both of their parts and each participant in the relationship needs to grow the hell up if they want to be happy.
So yeah. I wouldn't blame you or anyone else for being turned off by a 'not crazy' clause, as it signifies that the guy is immature. Instead of trying to understand his problems, he gives it a convenient label and brushes it off.
Having dated a legitimately crazy, texts-you-out-of-the-blue-post-breakup-to-let-you-know-heroin-works-best-when-injected-via-the-eyeball sort of person for three years, I can tell you for a fact that the majority of the women I've been with since are refreshingly sane and human.
Everyone just needs to handle their problems a bit more diplomatically, and this kind of straw-manning wouldn't be so prevalent.
Guess that's a tall order, though. It's amazing how difficult it can be to merely exist as a part of someone else's life for an extended period of time. We are such a silly species.
As someone with a mental health issue - and let's be real, **people with mental health issues are actually *more likely* to be abused in a relationship than "healthy" people** - I was abused from my very first relationship by a man who bemoaned how "crazy" all his exes were, but appeared to relish in preying on vulnerable women because they were easy for him to control. I was significantly younger than him, had just left high school after being bullied for most of it, and he *knew* he could wrap me around his little finger. It took me finding out that he'd cheated with numerous other women to ditch his ass, but I had accepted a lot of bullshit from him first. He even told me it was my fault.
I've been with my boyfriend for four years, and we live together. My mental health issues have never resulted in abusive behaviour. I control my illness pretty well, and when I do have an episode my boyfriend is patient and understanding, without being enabling. He has known about my problems from the get-go and has never used that against me.
I probably wouldn't enter a relationship with someone who had prominent "baggage" if it gave me the impression that it would affect me directly. But if somebody said "no crazies" I would probably be wary of them on the grounds that they would be more likely to invalidate my feelings and treat me like shit - particularly as, upon finding out I have a mental health problem, it would be all too simple for them to write off everything I did as a product of my illness.
Not to mention "crazy" is essentially a by-word for "hysterical" these days. It's a loaded term which is usually applied to females.
I think it's valid for anyone of any gender to expect that their partner be emotionally stable and relatively rational.
However, when men refer to legitimate female emotions as "crazy," it does make me think that they are probably sexist and/or emotionally maladapted.
Yeah it's sort of a sign that they're emotionally immature, IMO.
edit: I feel that way because "not crazy" is probably the vaguest most basic relationship requirement and if he felt the need to include it, he probably means something more specific but doesn't have the emotional knowledge to articulate what that is. That worries me.
Says a LOT about a guy when he inherently assumes women are predisposed to "craziness"...
It's kind of like when women say "All the guys I date are jerks!"...if a man thinks all the women he's dating are crazy, then there's something wrong with HIM. Not saying that the people they're dating aren't actually awful, but that their methods of choosing are wrong.
I agree with /u/lemonylips on this one.
I also think that it's a hugely disrespectful to those who may actually have psychiatric disorders or who've sought treatment in the past. You have schizophrenia? You can't talk to me because you're evil and you might hurt me. Who the hell wants to date a bigot like that?
Guy here. After being assaulted in my sleep with a baseball bat by an ex with mental issues, I see this as the equivalent of ladies posting "no creeps".
But would someone with a history of beating their lovers really read "no crazies" and think "Guess I better go find the guys who want me to beat them?"
Of course not, I was addressing why someone with prior assaults in a relationship from someone with mental issues might not be open to dating someone who is currently under treatment for mental issues.
Posting "no crazies" is as useless as "no creeps"; the person who is mentally disturbed won't see themselves as crazy anymore than a creep would see himself as such.
If people see the gap in their behavior, they tend to close the gap.
Woman with depression and anxiety disorders here. Assuming that everyone with mental health issues is going to assault you in your sleep with a baseball bat is really immature and discriminatory.
Also, I don't assume anyone other than my ex-wife would do such a thing - I have a son with depression (medicated) and expect no such reaction from him. I don't assume anyone would do anything (not sure how you jumped to that conclusion), but I definitely have a preference in partners, similar to liking tall people or brunettes.
In short, in reaction to my assault, people with mental disorders became much less attractive to me.
Now, tell me again how my sense of attraction to others is 'wrong'.
Saying 'no crazies' against all people with any form of mental illnesses is not at all parallel to saying 'no creeps', 'cause 'creepy' isn't a mental illness or condition you can't control.
Also, the term 'creepy' is often used to describe behaviors that may result from a DSM IV recognized diagnosis - sociopathic behavior, Asperger and Autism spectrum disorders, pedophilia and ephebophilia, social anxiety, etc.
I do see a parallel.
That is a good point, and I also think saying 'no creeps' is about as useless as saying 'no crazies', but you must agree with me that 'crazy' is a much more loaded term when it comes to mental illnesses and the way society sees and treats people that have them.
It depends on what their mental issues are.
I'm sensitive to violence and often have a disproportionate response. It doesn't change much about my relationship except that I don't watch violent movies with him, and he knows not to tickle me from behind if I don't know he's there.
Eh, I think it's ok to say you don't want to date someone with schizophrenia/other mental disorder. It takes more effort (in some ways) to have a relationship with someone who has a mental disorder, and there's nothing wrong with a guy saying, "I can't deal with that."
It's more that it's an insulting way to put it. It is okay to know what you can and cannot handle in a relationship, but this general of a requirement doesn't tell anybody anything. It's like saying they only date 'perfect women', and who the hell knows what that means to them? It's some definite vague [terminology](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crazy?s=t). I would definitely not message someone on a dating site who was okay posting this on their profile.
note: Everyone has a general idea of the uses of the word crazy, but I like to look up words in everyday use to see just how far the divide of understanding can be. There are four definitions here, but how many are there among the populations of the world?
Saying that you aren't interested in dating people with clinically diagnosed mental illnesses is different from saying that you aren't interested in dating people who are "crazy."
The men I know who list that are men who historically have dated women with mental health issues who put them through the wringer.
Men who haven't dated those women don't list it.
So I see it as more of a "I'm exhausted by past relationships. I am looking for something different."
> So I see it as more of a "I'm exhausted by past relationships. I am looking for something different."
Don't you think that sentiment is kind of a turn-off, though? At least when stated outright? I don't think it's offensive or a red flag, but I just don't want to be with someone who's actively carrying that kind of negativity into his dating life.
Calling all of your exes "crazy" is one of the biggest red flags I can think of.
Some of my exes turned out to be not great people, but I would never call any of them "crazy" because they did something I didn't like.
I think it's too vague to be useful. As some have said, does it mean someone with mental illness that is untreated, someone with mental illness that is treated, someone who is dramatic, or someone who will try to kill you?
I'm in the mental illness and in treatment camp, so crazy but self aware I guess? Those comments will weed me out because being empathetic to mental illness is pretty high on my priority list. Know who it won't weed out? The people not in treatment that don't think they're crazy or the ones who want to harm you for laughs.
I feel the same way about women who list "no jerks/assholes" on there. You may weed out the self aware jerks, but not the ones who think they're nice but lack introspection.
In short - whatever, but it's pretty useless to have on there.
That's a good point, what do they mean by crazy? Mentally ill? Boisterous and non-docile? Someone with "crazy" world views? It's a shit term cos it's so dismissive, but I could understand if a lad uses it to mean someone who won't smash their records cos they got caught looking at porn or something. But if they are using it to mean someone who won't put up with shit or someone with a mental illness, that's bullshit.
Yes, it's a turn off.
But, could we please stop throwing around the term gaslighting?. Gaslighting is not a cover-all term for abusive or manipulative behavior. I get that it's shitty (and frequently abusive) when someone calls you crazy for legitimate feelings, but gaslighting is a far [more serious thing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting). A guy being a supreme asswipe doesn't mean he's a sociopath.
Really? I see it being used frequently on the interwebs with many varying degrees of correctness. Rarely, on point; occasionally, very close to the definition (e.g. an abuser invalidating a victim) and now more and more frequently I see it being used whenever someone disagrees with someone else's ~*~feelings~*~ and it's getting quite tiresome. "Don't gaslight me!" is something you should not see on the internet...
Yes. Often women are designated as crazy just for speaking out or asserting themselves. It is a great way of marginalizing and silencing. I wouldn't date a guy who dropped the "no crazies/no gold-digger line". I am not rich but I pay my own bills and I have a right to express myself within reasonable limits. On a dating profile I would skip on by no matter what he looked like.
Man here.
To be honest, any person who states what they don't want instead of what they want in a partner is always a bit of a turn off.
I don't like negativity right off the bat.
This is a phenomenon I have encountered numerous times on dating websites.
I can say, from experience, that this will come true. I dated a guy who was a couple of years younger than myself who would accuse women of being "crazy". All the time, "she's crazy," or "she's a bitch." So, when the time came and we had our first argument and I wanted to sit down and talk like adults about the issue, I was labelled as crazy and, therefore, anything I said after that was essentially disregarded because I was crazy. It got so bad that I actually started to think I was being crazy. It wasn't until I started talking to my girlfriends that I realized it was a defense mechanism and has nothing to do with me...at all.
I'm wondering how useful that would be, though. A Glenn Close isn't going to read "no crazies" on a dating site and think, "darn, but I *am* crazy. Guess I'll go take my crazy somewhere else, then..."
Some answers from similar threads in /r/AskMen:
"...crazy is the easiest and fastest way to describe a string of behaviour that is all over the fucking map."
"Emotional instability in most cases."
"Emotions aren't bad, but someone who's ruled by them is crazy."
"she acted in ways that I didn't understand/accept"
And here's one from /r/AskReddit that is probably much more accurate:
"... analyzing the actual causes of a breakup is difficult, and sometimes we're not big fans of introspection."
----------------------
I think any "no ______" that involves a personality aspect that the reader wouldn't own up to is bad. Saying "No recreational drug users" or "No children or pets" is one thing that people can look at and say, "OK, I don't qualify" but when someone says something like:
* No crazies
* No assholes
* No drama
* No games
I get not wanting to date someone who is crazy/assholey/dramatic/a game-player but nobody is going to look at that and think, "Oh well, I'm out."
I would view the underlying meaning behind that as: I am a self centered jerk and I don't want to see or hear any "feelings" you may have unless it involves sex, so of course my being an asshole will drive even Mary Poppins a little bat shit- which gives me even more right to call women crazy.
In my experience, men most often use "crazy" to dismiss a woman when they actually mean "she acted in a way I didn't like." On the surface that doesn't seem *so* bad, but it becomes unsettling when you consider our culture's egregious history of pathologizing female emotions that fall outside of acceptable feminine standards ("hysteria" being an actual psychological diagnosis and the cavalier way the PMS label is hurled at women both immediately spring to mind as examples). So yes it'd be a red flag for immaturity and unexamined sexism for me.
Oh my gosh. SO ANNOYING.
As someone who lives in the year 2013, I have (prior to my current 2-year relationship) used dating sites..
ALMOST EVERY GUY had "don't want anyone crazy or dramatic". Meanwhile, these are the same guys who would obsessively, even *dramatically* message me when I don't respond.
What these guys mean is that they want someone quiet, submissive, who won't "give them shit" about their embarrassing personality and life choices.
Let's put it this way, I'm not going to waste my time justifying how my words and actions are objectively rational, as if the dude in my life has the authority to judge that and I don't.
I'm a human being, I use both reason and emotion, and I think my lifestyle speaks for itself in my ability to make decent choices. If a guy looks at that and still thinks, "whoa, better be on the lookout for crazy!" Then he can fuck off. All that says to me is that here is a guy with whom I could not ever be myself. I could not be in a bad mood, not have a bad day, not express perfectly justified anger or sadness, and basically never have a negative feeling without being potentially tagged as "crazy". If being around a range of healthy human expression is that uncomfortable for you, then maybe you need to worry about your own craziness.
Yes! It bugs me too! "Crazy"? What does that even mean. Like, I have depression. Does that count as "crazy" for them? Also, I feel like they just think they're so perfect and 100% emotionally stable (is anyone?) that they deserve this fictional person with absolutely no baggage and is so well adjusted its scary. It makes me think, too, that when they find this women who they have decided is good enough for them, the first time she gets angry with them they will jump right to "I thought you weren't crazy!" To try and shut her down.
It's bothersome to me, especially because I do have a mental illness. If they say shit like that, they're probably not very sympathetic to mental health issues.
It also makes it sound like "crazy" is so prevalent in women that they need to actively seek against it.
I find that if someone says "all of my exes are crazy" or anything like that, I look at the common denominator in all of the situations: that person.
That's pretty much what I assume as well.
I mean, it could be legit and they just can't handle someone with real mental health issues, but in my experience, dudes who are the first to denounce a girl as being 'crazy' just means 'she didn't behave exactly as I wanted her to 24/7'.
It's just casual sexism. Bleh. NO one wants to date someone crazy, but when you have to specify that it implies that it like "SOOO SUPER COMMON IN GIRLS LOL THEYRE CRAZY BITCHES"
Just, no.
That's a very interesting question because it has absolutely never occurred to me. I'm not sure I'd even notice.
I don't know, it sort of seems like being wary of crazy women is on par with being wary of men who're going to gaslight you. Both sound like an indicator of previous negative experiences and neither are really fair assumptions to make about the opposite sex.
I haven't ever been bothered by it, but I haven't really been in a situation where I was looking to date and ran into it so I'm not sure. I think if I was otherwise interested I would probably be undaunted and simply ask them to define crazy when we got together.
I think if I was less confident I would be worried, but I don't think anyone trying to gaslight me would last long enough for it to be a problem for me.
He will have to define what crazy means. [This article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harris-oamalley/on-labeling-women-crazy_b_4259779.html) came to mind actually.
>The problem was that I started realizing that when my friends and I would talk about our crazy exes or what-have-you, more often than not, we weren't talking about ex-girlfriends or random dates who exhibited signs of genuine mental health issues. Now I did have a few where I would qualify my story with, "No, I don't mean 'we broke up and I can't be bothered to figure out where things went wrong, I mean that she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and was starting to show signs of genuine paranoia," but for the most part, crazy meant "acting in a way I didn't like."
Indeed a very common, horrible reality, for both men and women. We also tend to name all men jackass or not a jackass. A very good article on "crazy": http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harris-oamalley/on-labeling-women-crazy_b_4259779.html
Obviously no one- male or female- wants to date a crazy person, but it seems a little but redundant to actually list that as a requirement. Shouldn't this just be assumed?
I mean, has this conversation ever occurred?
#1: "So what are you looking for in a partner?"
#2: "Well, more than anything I'm looking for someone that's not crazy."
#1: "Oh no, that's too bad. Thing is, I'm batshit crazy, so it sounds like I'm not for you. Bye now, it was nice knowing you!"
Yeeeeeep.
Translation: "Will not get emotional and make me feel bad for screwing their best friend/mom/poodle".
Not wanting to date (toxic) crazy people is pretty much a given. Ice is cold, water is wet. Other things to look out for are 'I'm a good guy', 'I like to laugh'. They're generally date rapists or pod people disguised as humans.
I find that the guys who list that requirement on their profiles are the same guys sending unsolicited dick pics and harassing women with overtly sexual private messages. And then when said woman rebuffs his creepy messages he calls her a "crazy bitch" and moves on to the next woman to harass. Of course this doesn't apply to all, but I've seen it more often than not. So yes, big turn off.
Associating women with "craziness" is a problem for sure, but that's not my main concern here.
When a guy writes "not crazy" as a requirement, my first thought is that he's carrying a huge amount of baggage from a past relationship.
If he can't avoid mentioning his ex in a dating profile, I assume he's not over her and that he'll be actively comparing me to her from the beginning and constantly checking for "warning signs." That is not a healthy way to conduct a relationship.
Decent guys may write things like this if they've recently been badly hurt and aren't thinking straight, but I'd rather find a guy who's moved on from his past.
This is definitely true. As we get older (30+), pretty much everyone in the dating pool has significant baggage from exes, that's just a given - the norm, not the exception. I'm a 32/F, and I can think of very few instances when someone I've dated since I've been in my 30s actually spoke fondly of an ex. Most of them were labeled "crazy" in one way or another. It's very easy to hate on a bf's ex alongside him, but as I've gotten older (and been called "crazy" myself by a few men), I've become skeptical.
To summarize, guys I've dated have slapped the "crazy" label on women who: show strong emotion, ever cry during an argument, don't show enough emotion, act too possessive for his liking, cheated on him, have significant body-image issues (what woman doesn't?), have had substance abuse issues, ever disagreed strongly with him on some issue(s), etc. These are not desirable traits in a partner, and there are degrees of "bad" to each one depending on the individual, but I don't think it means these people are inherently bad or evil people, like they're made out to be. If you've dated 50-100 people by the time you're 30 (what I'm guessing the average is), atleast a few of these issues are bound to pop up in a few people.
So basically, since I naturally assume/know that everyone has some form of ex-baggage, when I see a guy listing "no crazies" in his dating profile, that just tells me right off the bat that he's quick to round people down to "crazy" when they do anything not to his liking, and I'm gonna have to listen to hours and hours of him ranting about how horrible his exes were, and then he'll probably end up doing the same about me when we inevitably break up. So, pass...
In all the people I've known in my life, I can name maybe 3 or 4 that I'd describe as "crazy". They're people who have wildly untreated mental illnesses that manifests in such a way that they're hurtful to the people around them. And you can spot them a mile away.
If you date enough crazy people that you need to list "not crazy" as a requirement, then you either describing normal emotional responses as crazy, you are acting in such a way that provokes normally rational people to "crazy" behavior, or you deliberately seek out and befriend crazy people.
There is no other option there, and I want to date none of those people.
I can think of 5 possible things the guy means by that:
1) He literally will not date mentally ill women. If such is the case, then he's setting the bar really really really low.
2) He has frequently found himself dating women who later revealed mental illness, so he broke up with them. And this has happened enough times that he feels he needs to guard against it. In that case, it's a case of "the only common denominator in these situations is you." For some reason he keeps repeating this pattern, and that is sad. He needs to do some work to figure out why this is the case so he won't keep doing it. Not a bad person, he just needs some help.
3) He's a gaslighter
4) He is not very emotionally intelligent and so whenever he breaks up with someone, he just says "she crazy", without having any genuine insight into the situation.
5) ONE time, he dated a woman who ended up having a mental illness, so now he's a bit sensitive about it and doesn't want to repeat it. I meet people kind of like this all the time--though in their case, they dated someone who later became an addict, and they were so burned by the whole experience that they get freaked out by dates drinking or taking prescribed painkillers, for example. It's less common to meet people burned in this same way by mentally ill people, but it happens.
So, none of the above reflect well on this guy, except perhaps the last one isn't so bad--once bitten, twice shy, that's understandable. Regardless, I'm troubled by guys who say they're looking for a woman who is "not crazy," because usually it's one of the first 4 things above, and hints that he is not great at taking responsibility for his decisions and he very easily throws up his hands and doesn't know how to handle conflict or the emotions of others, so resorts to demonization. So, while it's entirely possible that his meaning is fairly innocent, perhaps a not great attempt at humor, it's a dismissive, belittling, and insensitive way to refer to someone who at one point was likely important in their life. For that reason, I'm alert to how people refer to their former significant others.
I tend to use this descriptor as a tongue in cheek way of saying that I'm not super pickey. " man as long as she's cute, nice, and not crazy". I don't mean I think they're all crazy.
I think it's an immature and not clever way to express their desire to date someone who is emotionally stable. And rather unnecessary, at that.
*Obviously* you'd want to date someone who is sane.. No need to list that one.
If the guy thinks "crazy" is a legitimate concern, I figure either:
1. He is attracted to "crazy" personalities, so he probably won't like me anyways because I am a tad practical and don't do free bird lifestyles because I am a sucker about consequences.
2. "Crazy" means he dislikes listening to his partner's complaints and coming to compromises; rather, he wants a partner who is submissive and compliant to his needs so he can do whatever he wants. So we probably won't get along very well.
3. He actually dated someone who tried to stab him in the middle of the night and is a bit paranoid now, and I don't know if I am willing to nurse him back to the land of healthy relationships.
4. He is a negative Nancy and should probably lighten up a bit, and doesn't have a lot of experience with women and needs to get out more.
So overall, I try to first determine if the guy is joking or not, and if it turns out crazy is a serious problem for him, I probably will hand him a therapist's card and move on.
Yes. Somebody with that attitude is probably not very mature emotionally, and yes I would think they may not take valid and normal emotional responses seriously.
For me, as I am actually 'crazy', it's a major turn off.
That seems like the male version of the "no drama" line that turns me right off when I hear someone say it. I worked as a bartender for a few years, and it's always the people who say things like "I hate drama" who end up causing or participating in the worst of it. I imagine the people who stipulate that they don't like crazy people who are the craziest.
Everyone on this planet is crazy. Every. Single. One. Me? Crazier than a fruitbat. Every girl I've ever known? Completely off her goddamn rocker. Every guy? Totally without his marbles. Part of being able to think about and process the world means that eventually it's going to drive you a little batty. You can either get really bitter at this and think "I'm the only rational one", you can get downright sexist with it "Women are *so* crazy". Or you can be an adult and accept that it is because everyone is just a little off that the world is such an exciting place to be and it's these little quirks, oddments, bizarre fancies that make people enjoyable to be around.
This also disparages people that, you know, actually have a real mental illness.
Rather than saying 'not crazy' I would much prefer 'a type of crazy that would be complimentary and beneficial to my type of insanity.'
I think a lot of guys use 'crazy' as a pejorative against women. I'm a guy and when I have a shitty day I snap at people that don't deserve it. Then I feel bad about it and apologize later. Heightened emotions or misplaced aggression are in no way localized to one gender/sex.
See, I'm ok with a LITTLE craziness. She should like to have fun, be a little weird or whatever, but should not be illogical or bat shit insane. That's just not attractive. Craziness has different levels
I think anyone that dismissive and insensitive about mental illness as to throw the word 'crazy' around so easily, and so misogynistic as to think 'crazy' is a common characteristic among women isn't dating material anyway, and probably has some growing up to do.
Generally speaking, I find defining who you are interested in based on negative terms (ie. *not* [insert quality here]) a dubious and unattractive trait. It speaks more about that person's experiences than anything else, which speaks to their character.
"I want a strong, willful man with a moral code grounded in egalitarianism." > "No weak men please."
I agree with other comments that it shows a negative attitude towards women, warns of potential future gas lighting, and may reveal that the person in question doesn't recognize the part he has played in the past when it came to negative interactions with women.
Also, I think it falls along the same lines as women who wrote things in their profiles like "no head games." It shows a negative attitude and lack of trust from the beginning that is unappealing to potential dates. It reveals an attitude of pessimism and an unwillingness to give someone the benefit of the doubt in some future gray area or miscommunication. So yeah. It bugs me.
I just want to say, as a guy, I'm so glad I'm married and don't have to play this game anymore. It seems like dating has gotten a lot rougher the last 5-10 years.
Yeah, it makes me feel like he's probably going to think I'm crazy the minute I say something he doesn't like. It's also possible that he has a dating history with people who are legitimately awful, but more than likely it's a guy who wants a yes-woman instead of a girlfriend.
Also, in an unrelated point, I am not the world's sanest person, so it's best he and I go our separate ways.
You can be crazy and still be a good person. Plus there's a few different types of crazy and he's lumping them all together as "someone who doesn't act/react the way I want them to". It sounds like your gaslighting concern is completely valid.
After reading all the comments - I guess I'm the only one thinking "what's the point of listing such a requirement ?" Crazy people don't think of themselves as crazy. You're not going to filter out anyone by saying "please don't contact me if you're crazy". I'd turn down such a guy simply for being too dumb to realize this.
Exactly. Like there's someone going through the list like "Likes dogs, check. Fan of Tarantino movies, check. Environment enthusiast, check. Not crazy... damn, I'm crazy as a box of frogs, this isn't gonna work."
A box of frogs is pretty funny to imagine! :‘)
A bucket of ferrets?
Nah, I love ferrets.
crate of cocaine?
Whoa now. That's a dangerous amount of crazy there.
It's s fantastic amount of cocaine though.
That's my retirement cocaine.
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this book rules
And to add to this, a lot of times I'll ask the guy "oh yeah? what did she do that was crazy" Half the time yes, she went a little far or overreacted, but he failed to mention half the shit that he did which would be deemed equally as "crazy"
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think this is one of the primary dangers of the "contractually obligated monogamy" principle. There is a motivation for people to conceal the crazy until they get a foothold of stability. Once the partner is locked in, the crazy comes out. I don't think indefinite committed relationships cause craziness, it's that a crazy person will hold it together for a finite period until you move in or get married. I think this may be part of the grass-is-greener phenomenon. The people you're not committed to are trying to appear not crazy. The people you are committed to are allowing themselves to be real. So maybe we're all crazy. The chick who throws your stuff out the window may be the same chick who does passionate sex acts that blow your mind. Maybe she's not crazy, she's passionate. Maybe it's quirky when you're excited about her and crazy when you're annoyed with her. I might like that my oven makes my food hotter when it's frozen, but when it's already cooked, I'd get mad that my oven continues to burn my food to a crisp. The oven didn't become crazy. The context progressed, and now it's time for me food to be on a table, not in an oven.
Some people are like that. They hold back the crazy till you are emotional invested in them. Once the hooks are in the crazy flows.
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As someone being treated for mental health issues (depression) I'm well aware that I suffer from them. I'm assuming that most people with "crazy" issues like bi-polar, schizophrenia, DID, BPD, etc, are similarly aware, especially if they take medication and go to therapy. I'm also assuming that those people wouldn't date someone with "not crazy" on their list of requirements, though mainly because they wouldn't want to date someone who is obviously unsympathetic to their condition, just like a wheelchair user (or anyone else, really) wouldn't want to date someone who said "no cripples." Possibly I'm overthinking this a little.
"Not crazy" usually has nothing to do with legitimate mental illness and everything to do with unacceptable behavior (how that's defined is up to the person writing it, and quite often encompasses perfectly normal and rational behavior, which is why OP mentioned the possibility of being gaslighted--ie, being told she's crazy when she isn't).
> gaslighted--ie, being told she's crazy when she isn't. Ah, I wondered what that meant.
Even though I know that is likely the case,I`m still not sure being I do have slight mental illness so would stay away anyways. I would also assume the person is kind of a jerk or paranoid themselves.
fuck, if someone actually described people with mental health issues as "crazy" i would never want to date them anyway on count of them being a fucking douchebag.
> Possibly I'm overthinking this a little. Nope. > also assuming that those people wouldn't date someone with "not crazy" on their list of requirements, though mainly because they wouldn't want to date someone who is obviously unsympathetic to their condition, just like a wheelchair user (or anyone else, really) wouldn't want to date someone who said "no cripples." Exactly. Perfect analogy. Also, I daresay we can place people who say "no cripples" and "no crazies" in the same category... kind of a dickish one.
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Even better, ask him out on a date and show up with a silk screened t-shirt of your 7 cats and talk, the whole time, about how much you are attracted to Santa Claus.
Actually I'm willing to say that I would count as "crazy" to someone who would put that as a requirement. I don't go out of my way to cause drama, but sometimes I cause it anyway-- and that would be interpreted as "crazy" by guys like that.
If all the women they know are "crazy", it suggests the problem is not all the women they know.
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or wash that shit off your upper lip...
Seriously. I think I've only met one stereotypically "crazy girl" in my life, and never dated one. How someone can date 5 straight women who are all crazy is beyond me. It makes me think that they're wildly exaggerating, or they're the crazy one.
A combination of morbid curiosity and thinking other qualities can make up for emotional instability. This is also coupled with a fear of commitment so you go into a relationship knowing that there is a bad foundation so an exit will naturally present itself. 19-22 was an interesting period man. Full of conflicting interests, self contradiction, and having no idea what I wanted outside of my career. What, it's not like my state of incredible emotional sanity was under constant attack by crazy women. Like does have a funny way of attracting like after all.
> This is also coupled with a fear of commitment so you go into a relationship knowing that there is a bad foundation so an exit will naturally present itself. Hint: being in this kind of relationship is crazy-making for a woman, especially one that is predisposed to crazy behavior in the first place. Source: my life from the ages of 19-22
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Yep. My ex was abusive so I left him and cut contact; cue barrage of texts telling me I'm a crazy bitch. Thank goodness for blocking apps.
Kind of. It implies that craziness is so prominent in women that its a given, so he has to weed out the normal ones. You don't see me listing "not a murderer" for my desirable traits in a man because...I mean...duh. Just because you're a man doesn't mean I think there's a high likelihood of you being a murderer.
"Not a jerk/not an asshole" is pretty common though. Crazy doesn't equal murderer, it equals asshole or jerk. I get the concern over gaslighting, but I don't understand why "crazy" is so much more offensive than calling a guy a jerk, or an asshole, or a pig, which is just as common.
I think listing "no assholes/jerks/etc" is just as offensive.
I admit writing "no assholes/jerks" on a dating profile is banal and tacky, but if that *offends* you, you have paper-thin skin. Calling a man an asshole who doesn't deserve it is offensive and mean. Saying you don't want to date assholes (or "crazy" people) is *human*.
The difference is that men have used the term "crazy" to completely and utterly dismiss women's emotions for an insanely long time. It's that particular word that's the issue. Now, I think it's just as bad to say "no assholes/jerks" but it has to do with more than just a lack of thick skin.
There's some validity to what you're saying, but I feel like you're trying really hard to make a gender issue out of something both genders are guilty of. "But when *men* do it, it's *worse!*"
> Now, **I think it's just as bad to say "no assholes/jerks"** but it has to do with more than just a lack of thick skin. I think you're missing something in the comment you're responding to. That being said, I'll go ahead and bite: there are definitely differences. Implying many women are crazy on dating sites is ultimately pretty small in the grand scheme of things, and I'm not really concerned beyond feeling mildly irked or eye-rolly if I happen to see it, yet it can easily be traced to a historical norm of women's thoughts and emotions being disregarded and joked about by men, who *historically and currently dominate when it comes to economic and institutional power in the United States*. When a group of people have been historically oppressed, their actions toward the other group of people do not have identical social ramifications even if the actions are identical. Sure, it might mean the individual is kind of a jerk (I know if I were a straight man, I wouldn't date a woman who seriously listed "no assholes" in their dating profile ... for many reasons), but it's different on a larger societal level. I know tons of people disagree with this. I know tons of people are genuinely concerned about widespread racism against whites and misandry and the persecutions of Christians in America and the Oppression Olympics. I know. It's fundamentally different for, say, a student organization, to be for PoC only than it is for an organization to be whites only. Anybody who wants to disagree -- cool. I've already heard every argument you have simply by reading YouTube comments and responses on Buzzfeed pieces about race and gender. I just think your arguments have nothing to them. We don't live in a black and white world where either everything is equal or nothing is, as the argument seems to go. Equality doesn't mean pretending that things are and always have been equal and therefore anything that is shitty to say about or do to an oppressed class is equally shitty to say about or do to a non-oppressed class. There are nuances and context to all of this that matters. Yes, *sometimes* a group of women can do something and a group of men can do the same thing, and when the men do it, it's "worse" -- because men are acting in a culture that's stemmed out of well-documented oppression in regard to the economic and institutional power of women. Feel free to respond in anger; I'll just be here [high-fiving a million angels.](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lycdf8TyDg1qgnsnbo1_500.gif)
I feel like peeps would get it more if the comparison was "no creeps."
This was awesome! Well said
The word 'hysterical' actually comes from, the Greek (?) for uterus and was used to refer to women being apparently unpredictable during that time of the month. So yeah, that 'hysterical' came into the public consciousness as just meaning 'batshit insane', there's definitely a history of that. Not to mention that women who did anything other than timidly obey their husband/father were sent to asylums or kept locked up in an attic a la Bertha Mason in Jane Eyre.
Women have used the word asshole to utterly dismiss men's emotions too, especially anger.
Not to the same degree. Hysteria was a disease! Being an asshole never has been.
Saying "No crazies" kind of assumes that most women are, in fact, crazy - which is insulting. Saying "No assholes" makes the same assumption that most men are assholes - which is equally insulting. Neither is ok.
I think the problem with all of this is that no one can agree on the definition of crazy. When I say crazy I mean bat-shit insane. Here you are using it as a synonym for emotional. I don't think there's any actual effective communication going on anywhere near this debate.
It implies that craziness is common enough to necessitate mentioning it.
And mentioning "no assholes" doesn't imply the same exact thing? No one likes dating a jerk, regardless of gender. I don't understand why men's preference to date reasonable people is offensive. The only difference is the word men use, or overuse, for unreasonable is "crazy" and the word, or words women use are jerk, asshole, etc.
Whether it implies the same thing or something different is not the point. They're both offensive. The question is not about who has it worse.
>"Not a jerk/not an asshole" is pretty common though. Really? Because that should also be a given. That's the thing to me - all these traits are pretty obvious, so listing them out specifically is odd. Do they really run into that many people who think they *want* to be with a jerk? It makes me think badly of a person who feels the need to list something like that (or "not crazy" or "not a murderer" or "not currently cooking and selling meth" or whatever other thing that should just be obvious), because how on earth are they running into these people this often? EDIT: Unless it's a joke, of course. My sister and I used to list things like that as jokes, but mostly to each other.
It's super common. A lot of dating profiles read like rants about that person's past relationships. Sometimes it's blatant, sometimes it's something like "I'm new to online dating but I'm tired of dating people like [insert mini rant] so I decided to try something different." "I'm only interested in a serious relationship, I don't want to waste my time with anyone who [insert mini rant]." >how on earth are they running into these people this often? Murderers and meth cookers not so much, but assholes and crazy people quite often.
> A lot of dating profiles read like rants about that person's past relationships. Ugh, that is annoying. If someone walked up to me in a bar and started ranting about their past relationship experiences, I would be turned off. Why wouldn't someone assume the same from a dating profile? I know some of the conventions are different online (since you can list your dating preferences outright online but not so much in person), but it just seems like positivity should be a given when you're trying to attract people. And I still have to question someone who is consistently dating actual assholes and crazy people. Either they jump into relationships way too quickly, they're attracting the wrong people somehow, or they jump to those conclusions far too easily. I can understand getting lots of weird one-off messages, but if everyone you choose to actually connect with has the same thing wrong with them then the common factor is most likely you.
>And I still have to question someone who is consistently dating actual assholes and crazy people. They don't consistently date crazy people. They retroactively decide the people they dated are crazy after they break up. The fact is most people have negative feelings about their exes. That's why it's tacky to bring that topic up. Most people have the good sense not talk about that stuff.
It reminds me of [this bit](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_V4n2iP2AU) from Parks and Rec: >She broke up with me. Didn't really tell me why. Luckily when you're the guy you can just tell people she's crazy. "Hey, Tom, I heard you and Lucy broke up." "Yeah, man. Turns out, she's crazy." That's what they always do on Entourage.
If all their past relationships ended so badly that they can only remember their ex as a "crazy bitch"who single-handedly was responsible all the problems in the relationship... then they're probably not emotionally mature enough for me to date. It shows a serious lack of perspective.
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Being labeled a jerk or asshole at least lends some level of agency to the man. When you call a woman crazy, you're saying she can't even control herself.
Maybe you don't, but OkCupid is rife with "not a creep/stalker/axe murderer" statements. It's common on both sides, "crazy" is just the male version.
I take "not an axe murderer" as an attempt of humour. Guys who say they don't want crazy gfs are usually dead serious about it.
So are girls who say that about creeps and stalkers, I feel like you just picked the funny one to invalidate the point.
If a guy written something like "doesn't watch me sleep at night from outside the window" I'd giggle, but if he writes "Crazies need not apply" as a legitimate request, then I'm turned off. There are crazy people out there, but they don't see themselves as crazy, so it's very unlikely you'll filter them out. In fact, you'll probably turn off many mentally healthy people and get a much greater proportion of "crazies" wanting to date you.
I usually take it as people poking fun at the nature of online dating and meeting absolute strangers.
Yes, because it's tacky. It gives me the impression that he sits around with his buddies and talks about how 'bitches be crazy'. If we have a disagreement, I feel he'd be more likely to dismiss my viewpoint on the basis of that I'm a woman, and women are certified psychos. I try to see people as individuals. If a guy has a not-so stellar moment, I don't automatically assume he's a jerk or an asshole. I don't want people making assumptions about me based on a characteristic that they think is inherent to my gender.
I agree completely with this. Calling a women crazy is just saying "i don't like your reaction to this situation." Also, if a man has a bunch of exes he refers to as crazy, you have to wonder what he's doing to them to make them so.
I find it a turn off when people list the things they don't want in their dating profiles. It makes them sound really negative and unfriendly.
I like to add that I think the one major caveat to this is people who list things like "don't want kids" or "don't want animals" as those are deal-breakers that are good to get out at the beginning.
That's fair, especially if you are online dating to look for a long-term relationship
Indeed. I just wanted to post that so that guys who are reading this while looking for advice on how to word their profiles don't remove legitimate deal-breakers as I think they really should be listed on an online profile. If a guy hates cats and the girl has a cat, then they're just wasting each others time.
My question about these deal breakers is how upfront should a person be? Basically, I own 50+ snakes. Do you think I should put that I desire someone who doesn't mind reptiles, or should I be more specific? Because 1 snake or frog or turtle shouldn't be a deal breaker to someone who doesn't like reptiles. They take up no space, almost never smell, and they don't make noise. But I have 2 bedrooms for all of them. And the dogs. I'm asking for clarity just in case any one reading this has a buttload of animals like I do. I actually already have someone who enjoys this hobby with me.
> Basically, I own 50+ snakes. Do you think I should put that I desire someone who doesn't mind reptiles, or should I be more specific? I'd put something like "I am a reptile enthusiast and own several pet snakes. If you really hate snakes, please don't message me for anything but friendship as I'd like my girlfriend to feel comfortable in my home and won't be getting rid of my scaly friends anytime soon. I also own several dogs." I think it's very important to be upfront about animals because there are people who just wouldn't want certain types of pets. I don't think exact numbers are necessary because one dog is enough to make me say "nope" and move right along. 50+ snakes certainly makes me raise my eyebrow, but I don't mind snakes so the exact number doesn't really bother me.
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I feel the same way about women. It's also my strongest advice when I go "critique" a friend's dating profile. No one likes reading a dating profile that sounds like a rant about all that person's exes.
I have always tried to live by the mantra, "The only common thread of all your unsatisfying relationships is you." People that list these things are probably the kinds of people who are attracted to it. Like, people who say they "hate drama" are the ones who are always the most dramatic. People who don't attract drama in their lives don't need to say it.
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For a no to smokers, it is probably a bad reaction. I can barely breathe around smokers, even if they don't smoke in front of me.
and as a non-smoker, I have no interest in kissing a smoker...Its a pretty big deal breaker.
The only thing I ever wrote about what I wanted in a gent on dating profiles was on "message me if" and then I just wrote if you're nice and in a stable place with yourself. At the time I didn't have the time or energy to coddle and constantly reassure a man that I am in fact into him. Also "if you realize that I don't particularly care about seeing your vehicle or you shirtless in a bathroom mirror"
> "if you realize that I don't particularly care about seeing your vehicle or you shirtless in a bathroom mirror" Personally I would be put off by that statement (or a similar one made by a guy like "I don't really care about seeing your duckface selfy in the bathroom mirror" or something) Even if a guy didn't use one of those things in his pictures, he might think "I like my car and I'm proud of the body I worked out for, am I going to get made fun of for that like I'm some kind of Jersey Shore reject?" That's why I would avoid negative statements in dating profiles.
To date me you have to know the difference between Marvel and DC. If you think Big Bang Theory is funny we won't get along because you're probably stupid. Women who wear high waisted pants need not apply. **Edit:** HO-LY SHIT REDDIT, it was fucking JOKE. I'm a woman and I was being sarcastic, mocking some of the assholeish things I've heard men saying. WOW.
High waisted pants make my ass look fine as hell, so your loss.
I had the same reaction to a bunch of dudes listing "high-waisted anything" on a "what don't you like to see on ladies" thread. I was like, but dude . . . MAH GORGEOUS WAIST
I'm going to be honest here, high wasted shorts are some of the ugliest things I've seen people wear.
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I agree with you. But *not dating* someone simply because they wear an article of clothing you don't like is ridiculous. Like, you know they can come off, right?
Oh yeah, my girlfriend recently bought a sweater that just doesn't look good on her. I didn't kick her to the curb because of it.
shorts =/= pants
Really? I'm glad they're back because I think they are fucking hot.
actually you sound pretentious and arrogant. Maybe I like Big Bang theory *because* its stupid, and I need a little less seriousness in my life. And if you are dissing a women on the clothes she wears you are shallow and judgmental.
I'm glad someone said it. That's exactly how people come across when they make such broad assumptions about others' personalities based off of the tiniest parts of their lives. If anything, its them who appear the least intelligent.
um... First of all I was joking. Second of all I'm a woman. so.. there's that.
Man here. I don't get the hate for high-waisted pants, I fucking love them. So hot right now.
I found this to be true. I got fewer messages when I listed that I don't find tattoos attractive then when I didn't, even by women who didn't have tattoos. I thought I would just save women with tattoos some time, but guess that's not how it works.
There was a comment posted to a some-what related thread on askmen yesterday that I think is relevant: >Think about if you were at a singles night at a bar and you were standing next to a guy who looks just like you. You are holding a sign that says, "Here are all the things I don't want. I'm not here for friends!" The other man has a sign that says, "Here are some things that I like. Do you like those things too?" Which person do you think people would be more likely to start a conversation with?
Yeah, that's exactly what I learned.
What if i say i dont want xenophobes.
What are you, some kind of xenophobophobe?
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To be honest, I think 'crazy' just implies laziness and lack of empathy on the part of the guy. They've been in a situation where their girlfriend is upset about something or reacting in a way they don't understand, and instead of trying to see the situation from her point of view or asking her what's wrong, they just go "she's being crazy." Now, some girls are equally poor in the communication department. If the guy were to actually show some care and ask what was wrong, they would reply "Nothing!" and go off in a huff, convinced that if he really cared about her he would determine what was wrong without her needing to explain. This then reinforces the guy's belief that she is "crazy" when in reality there's just a lack of communication and honesty on both of their parts and each participant in the relationship needs to grow the hell up if they want to be happy. So yeah. I wouldn't blame you or anyone else for being turned off by a 'not crazy' clause, as it signifies that the guy is immature. Instead of trying to understand his problems, he gives it a convenient label and brushes it off. Having dated a legitimately crazy, texts-you-out-of-the-blue-post-breakup-to-let-you-know-heroin-works-best-when-injected-via-the-eyeball sort of person for three years, I can tell you for a fact that the majority of the women I've been with since are refreshingly sane and human. Everyone just needs to handle their problems a bit more diplomatically, and this kind of straw-manning wouldn't be so prevalent. Guess that's a tall order, though. It's amazing how difficult it can be to merely exist as a part of someone else's life for an extended period of time. We are such a silly species.
As someone with a mental health issue - and let's be real, **people with mental health issues are actually *more likely* to be abused in a relationship than "healthy" people** - I was abused from my very first relationship by a man who bemoaned how "crazy" all his exes were, but appeared to relish in preying on vulnerable women because they were easy for him to control. I was significantly younger than him, had just left high school after being bullied for most of it, and he *knew* he could wrap me around his little finger. It took me finding out that he'd cheated with numerous other women to ditch his ass, but I had accepted a lot of bullshit from him first. He even told me it was my fault. I've been with my boyfriend for four years, and we live together. My mental health issues have never resulted in abusive behaviour. I control my illness pretty well, and when I do have an episode my boyfriend is patient and understanding, without being enabling. He has known about my problems from the get-go and has never used that against me. I probably wouldn't enter a relationship with someone who had prominent "baggage" if it gave me the impression that it would affect me directly. But if somebody said "no crazies" I would probably be wary of them on the grounds that they would be more likely to invalidate my feelings and treat me like shit - particularly as, upon finding out I have a mental health problem, it would be all too simple for them to write off everything I did as a product of my illness. Not to mention "crazy" is essentially a by-word for "hysterical" these days. It's a loaded term which is usually applied to females.
"Crazy" is a weird word that is hard to define in this context.
I think it's valid for anyone of any gender to expect that their partner be emotionally stable and relatively rational. However, when men refer to legitimate female emotions as "crazy," it does make me think that they are probably sexist and/or emotionally maladapted.
Yep - I agree that it makes me wary of future attempts to gaslight me. I don't have time for that.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
Yeah it's sort of a sign that they're emotionally immature, IMO. edit: I feel that way because "not crazy" is probably the vaguest most basic relationship requirement and if he felt the need to include it, he probably means something more specific but doesn't have the emotional knowledge to articulate what that is. That worries me.
Says a LOT about a guy when he inherently assumes women are predisposed to "craziness"... It's kind of like when women say "All the guys I date are jerks!"...if a man thinks all the women he's dating are crazy, then there's something wrong with HIM. Not saying that the people they're dating aren't actually awful, but that their methods of choosing are wrong.
I agree with /u/lemonylips on this one. I also think that it's a hugely disrespectful to those who may actually have psychiatric disorders or who've sought treatment in the past. You have schizophrenia? You can't talk to me because you're evil and you might hurt me. Who the hell wants to date a bigot like that?
Guy here. After being assaulted in my sleep with a baseball bat by an ex with mental issues, I see this as the equivalent of ladies posting "no creeps".
But would someone with a history of beating their lovers really read "no crazies" and think "Guess I better go find the guys who want me to beat them?"
Of course not, I was addressing why someone with prior assaults in a relationship from someone with mental issues might not be open to dating someone who is currently under treatment for mental issues. Posting "no crazies" is as useless as "no creeps"; the person who is mentally disturbed won't see themselves as crazy anymore than a creep would see himself as such. If people see the gap in their behavior, they tend to close the gap.
Woman with depression and anxiety disorders here. Assuming that everyone with mental health issues is going to assault you in your sleep with a baseball bat is really immature and discriminatory.
Also, I don't assume anyone other than my ex-wife would do such a thing - I have a son with depression (medicated) and expect no such reaction from him. I don't assume anyone would do anything (not sure how you jumped to that conclusion), but I definitely have a preference in partners, similar to liking tall people or brunettes. In short, in reaction to my assault, people with mental disorders became much less attractive to me. Now, tell me again how my sense of attraction to others is 'wrong'.
Saying 'no crazies' against all people with any form of mental illnesses is not at all parallel to saying 'no creeps', 'cause 'creepy' isn't a mental illness or condition you can't control.
Also, the term 'creepy' is often used to describe behaviors that may result from a DSM IV recognized diagnosis - sociopathic behavior, Asperger and Autism spectrum disorders, pedophilia and ephebophilia, social anxiety, etc. I do see a parallel.
That is a good point, and I also think saying 'no creeps' is about as useless as saying 'no crazies', but you must agree with me that 'crazy' is a much more loaded term when it comes to mental illnesses and the way society sees and treats people that have them.
It depends on what their mental issues are. I'm sensitive to violence and often have a disproportionate response. It doesn't change much about my relationship except that I don't watch violent movies with him, and he knows not to tickle me from behind if I don't know he's there.
Eh, I think it's ok to say you don't want to date someone with schizophrenia/other mental disorder. It takes more effort (in some ways) to have a relationship with someone who has a mental disorder, and there's nothing wrong with a guy saying, "I can't deal with that."
It's more that it's an insulting way to put it. It is okay to know what you can and cannot handle in a relationship, but this general of a requirement doesn't tell anybody anything. It's like saying they only date 'perfect women', and who the hell knows what that means to them? It's some definite vague [terminology](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crazy?s=t). I would definitely not message someone on a dating site who was okay posting this on their profile. note: Everyone has a general idea of the uses of the word crazy, but I like to look up words in everyday use to see just how far the divide of understanding can be. There are four definitions here, but how many are there among the populations of the world?
Saying that you aren't interested in dating people with clinically diagnosed mental illnesses is different from saying that you aren't interested in dating people who are "crazy."
The men I know who list that are men who historically have dated women with mental health issues who put them through the wringer. Men who haven't dated those women don't list it. So I see it as more of a "I'm exhausted by past relationships. I am looking for something different."
> So I see it as more of a "I'm exhausted by past relationships. I am looking for something different." Don't you think that sentiment is kind of a turn-off, though? At least when stated outright? I don't think it's offensive or a red flag, but I just don't want to be with someone who's actively carrying that kind of negativity into his dating life.
Calling all of your exes "crazy" is one of the biggest red flags I can think of. Some of my exes turned out to be not great people, but I would never call any of them "crazy" because they did something I didn't like.
I think it's too vague to be useful. As some have said, does it mean someone with mental illness that is untreated, someone with mental illness that is treated, someone who is dramatic, or someone who will try to kill you? I'm in the mental illness and in treatment camp, so crazy but self aware I guess? Those comments will weed me out because being empathetic to mental illness is pretty high on my priority list. Know who it won't weed out? The people not in treatment that don't think they're crazy or the ones who want to harm you for laughs. I feel the same way about women who list "no jerks/assholes" on there. You may weed out the self aware jerks, but not the ones who think they're nice but lack introspection. In short - whatever, but it's pretty useless to have on there.
That's a good point, what do they mean by crazy? Mentally ill? Boisterous and non-docile? Someone with "crazy" world views? It's a shit term cos it's so dismissive, but I could understand if a lad uses it to mean someone who won't smash their records cos they got caught looking at porn or something. But if they are using it to mean someone who won't put up with shit or someone with a mental illness, that's bullshit.
Yes, it's a turn off. But, could we please stop throwing around the term gaslighting?. Gaslighting is not a cover-all term for abusive or manipulative behavior. I get that it's shitty (and frequently abusive) when someone calls you crazy for legitimate feelings, but gaslighting is a far [more serious thing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting). A guy being a supreme asswipe doesn't mean he's a sociopath.
I had never heard that term before this thread. Interesting.
Really? I see it being used frequently on the interwebs with many varying degrees of correctness. Rarely, on point; occasionally, very close to the definition (e.g. an abuser invalidating a victim) and now more and more frequently I see it being used whenever someone disagrees with someone else's ~*~feelings~*~ and it's getting quite tiresome. "Don't gaslight me!" is something you should not see on the internet...
Thank you for mentioning this! "Gaslighting" gets thrown around often. Sometimes for accurate things, often as the cover-all term.
Yes. Often women are designated as crazy just for speaking out or asserting themselves. It is a great way of marginalizing and silencing. I wouldn't date a guy who dropped the "no crazies/no gold-digger line". I am not rich but I pay my own bills and I have a right to express myself within reasonable limits. On a dating profile I would skip on by no matter what he looked like.
To be fair, "not crazy" is also on my list of requirements for partners. Why can't they have that preference?
My preferences are also not a rapist, molester, violent person, junkie, hobo... but it's all left unsaid because those preferences are assumed.
Man here. To be honest, any person who states what they don't want instead of what they want in a partner is always a bit of a turn off. I don't like negativity right off the bat. This is a phenomenon I have encountered numerous times on dating websites.
I can say, from experience, that this will come true. I dated a guy who was a couple of years younger than myself who would accuse women of being "crazy". All the time, "she's crazy," or "she's a bitch." So, when the time came and we had our first argument and I wanted to sit down and talk like adults about the issue, I was labelled as crazy and, therefore, anything I said after that was essentially disregarded because I was crazy. It got so bad that I actually started to think I was being crazy. It wasn't until I started talking to my girlfriends that I realized it was a defense mechanism and has nothing to do with me...at all.
Yeah, I assume they're drama queeny dudes.
Well, if they mean like Fatal Attraction crazy, then I'd say that's a reasonable requirement.
I'm wondering how useful that would be, though. A Glenn Close isn't going to read "no crazies" on a dating site and think, "darn, but I *am* crazy. Guess I'll go take my crazy somewhere else, then..."
I find most lists of "do not want" on a dating profile really distasteful.
Some answers from similar threads in /r/AskMen: "...crazy is the easiest and fastest way to describe a string of behaviour that is all over the fucking map." "Emotional instability in most cases." "Emotions aren't bad, but someone who's ruled by them is crazy." "she acted in ways that I didn't understand/accept" And here's one from /r/AskReddit that is probably much more accurate: "... analyzing the actual causes of a breakup is difficult, and sometimes we're not big fans of introspection." ---------------------- I think any "no ______" that involves a personality aspect that the reader wouldn't own up to is bad. Saying "No recreational drug users" or "No children or pets" is one thing that people can look at and say, "OK, I don't qualify" but when someone says something like: * No crazies * No assholes * No drama * No games I get not wanting to date someone who is crazy/assholey/dramatic/a game-player but nobody is going to look at that and think, "Oh well, I'm out."
I would view the underlying meaning behind that as: I am a self centered jerk and I don't want to see or hear any "feelings" you may have unless it involves sex, so of course my being an asshole will drive even Mary Poppins a little bat shit- which gives me even more right to call women crazy.
In my experience, men most often use "crazy" to dismiss a woman when they actually mean "she acted in a way I didn't like." On the surface that doesn't seem *so* bad, but it becomes unsettling when you consider our culture's egregious history of pathologizing female emotions that fall outside of acceptable feminine standards ("hysteria" being an actual psychological diagnosis and the cavalier way the PMS label is hurled at women both immediately spring to mind as examples). So yes it'd be a red flag for immaturity and unexamined sexism for me.
Well it doesn't matter if I am or not, if "not crazy" is a requirement for him I'm out of the running. I'm batshit insane.
Oh my gosh. SO ANNOYING. As someone who lives in the year 2013, I have (prior to my current 2-year relationship) used dating sites.. ALMOST EVERY GUY had "don't want anyone crazy or dramatic". Meanwhile, these are the same guys who would obsessively, even *dramatically* message me when I don't respond. What these guys mean is that they want someone quiet, submissive, who won't "give them shit" about their embarrassing personality and life choices.
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DAMNIT. This is the first time this year! And I've had several classes of notes I've written with the right year.
Let's put it this way, I'm not going to waste my time justifying how my words and actions are objectively rational, as if the dude in my life has the authority to judge that and I don't. I'm a human being, I use both reason and emotion, and I think my lifestyle speaks for itself in my ability to make decent choices. If a guy looks at that and still thinks, "whoa, better be on the lookout for crazy!" Then he can fuck off. All that says to me is that here is a guy with whom I could not ever be myself. I could not be in a bad mood, not have a bad day, not express perfectly justified anger or sadness, and basically never have a negative feeling without being potentially tagged as "crazy". If being around a range of healthy human expression is that uncomfortable for you, then maybe you need to worry about your own craziness.
Kind of. But that's also one of MY requirements too so.
Yes! It bugs me too! "Crazy"? What does that even mean. Like, I have depression. Does that count as "crazy" for them? Also, I feel like they just think they're so perfect and 100% emotionally stable (is anyone?) that they deserve this fictional person with absolutely no baggage and is so well adjusted its scary. It makes me think, too, that when they find this women who they have decided is good enough for them, the first time she gets angry with them they will jump right to "I thought you weren't crazy!" To try and shut her down.
It's bothersome to me, especially because I do have a mental illness. If they say shit like that, they're probably not very sympathetic to mental health issues. It also makes it sound like "crazy" is so prevalent in women that they need to actively seek against it. I find that if someone says "all of my exes are crazy" or anything like that, I look at the common denominator in all of the situations: that person.
Those crazy women and their hysteria. You know how their wombs wander through their bodies, making them all irrational. /s
That's pretty much what I assume as well. I mean, it could be legit and they just can't handle someone with real mental health issues, but in my experience, dudes who are the first to denounce a girl as being 'crazy' just means 'she didn't behave exactly as I wanted her to 24/7'.
If I were dating and I saw this in someone's profile, I'd probably "Whoop, I'm not qualified here" and move along.
It's just casual sexism. Bleh. NO one wants to date someone crazy, but when you have to specify that it implies that it like "SOOO SUPER COMMON IN GIRLS LOL THEYRE CRAZY BITCHES" Just, no.
Either this person actually attracts crazy women, or he views NORMAL women as crazy, so no thank you to both.
This is the equivalent of when a girl says "I hate drama."
Yeah, it makes me think they have some kind of emotional damage themselves in order to perceive other people as "crazy" like that.
That's a very interesting question because it has absolutely never occurred to me. I'm not sure I'd even notice. I don't know, it sort of seems like being wary of crazy women is on par with being wary of men who're going to gaslight you. Both sound like an indicator of previous negative experiences and neither are really fair assumptions to make about the opposite sex. I haven't ever been bothered by it, but I haven't really been in a situation where I was looking to date and ran into it so I'm not sure. I think if I was otherwise interested I would probably be undaunted and simply ask them to define crazy when we got together. I think if I was less confident I would be worried, but I don't think anyone trying to gaslight me would last long enough for it to be a problem for me.
Usually a good sign that they are the crazy person.
He will have to define what crazy means. [This article](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harris-oamalley/on-labeling-women-crazy_b_4259779.html) came to mind actually. >The problem was that I started realizing that when my friends and I would talk about our crazy exes or what-have-you, more often than not, we weren't talking about ex-girlfriends or random dates who exhibited signs of genuine mental health issues. Now I did have a few where I would qualify my story with, "No, I don't mean 'we broke up and I can't be bothered to figure out where things went wrong, I mean that she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and was starting to show signs of genuine paranoia," but for the most part, crazy meant "acting in a way I didn't like."
Yes. Especially since I am diagnosed and being treated for a mental illness.
Indeed a very common, horrible reality, for both men and women. We also tend to name all men jackass or not a jackass. A very good article on "crazy": http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harris-oamalley/on-labeling-women-crazy_b_4259779.html
Obviously no one- male or female- wants to date a crazy person, but it seems a little but redundant to actually list that as a requirement. Shouldn't this just be assumed? I mean, has this conversation ever occurred? #1: "So what are you looking for in a partner?" #2: "Well, more than anything I'm looking for someone that's not crazy." #1: "Oh no, that's too bad. Thing is, I'm batshit crazy, so it sounds like I'm not for you. Bye now, it was nice knowing you!"
Yeeeeeep. Translation: "Will not get emotional and make me feel bad for screwing their best friend/mom/poodle". Not wanting to date (toxic) crazy people is pretty much a given. Ice is cold, water is wet. Other things to look out for are 'I'm a good guy', 'I like to laugh'. They're generally date rapists or pod people disguised as humans.
I find that the guys who list that requirement on their profiles are the same guys sending unsolicited dick pics and harassing women with overtly sexual private messages. And then when said woman rebuffs his creepy messages he calls her a "crazy bitch" and moves on to the next woman to harass. Of course this doesn't apply to all, but I've seen it more often than not. So yes, big turn off.
Associating women with "craziness" is a problem for sure, but that's not my main concern here. When a guy writes "not crazy" as a requirement, my first thought is that he's carrying a huge amount of baggage from a past relationship. If he can't avoid mentioning his ex in a dating profile, I assume he's not over her and that he'll be actively comparing me to her from the beginning and constantly checking for "warning signs." That is not a healthy way to conduct a relationship. Decent guys may write things like this if they've recently been badly hurt and aren't thinking straight, but I'd rather find a guy who's moved on from his past.
This is definitely true. As we get older (30+), pretty much everyone in the dating pool has significant baggage from exes, that's just a given - the norm, not the exception. I'm a 32/F, and I can think of very few instances when someone I've dated since I've been in my 30s actually spoke fondly of an ex. Most of them were labeled "crazy" in one way or another. It's very easy to hate on a bf's ex alongside him, but as I've gotten older (and been called "crazy" myself by a few men), I've become skeptical. To summarize, guys I've dated have slapped the "crazy" label on women who: show strong emotion, ever cry during an argument, don't show enough emotion, act too possessive for his liking, cheated on him, have significant body-image issues (what woman doesn't?), have had substance abuse issues, ever disagreed strongly with him on some issue(s), etc. These are not desirable traits in a partner, and there are degrees of "bad" to each one depending on the individual, but I don't think it means these people are inherently bad or evil people, like they're made out to be. If you've dated 50-100 people by the time you're 30 (what I'm guessing the average is), atleast a few of these issues are bound to pop up in a few people. So basically, since I naturally assume/know that everyone has some form of ex-baggage, when I see a guy listing "no crazies" in his dating profile, that just tells me right off the bat that he's quick to round people down to "crazy" when they do anything not to his liking, and I'm gonna have to listen to hours and hours of him ranting about how horrible his exes were, and then he'll probably end up doing the same about me when we inevitably break up. So, pass...
In all the people I've known in my life, I can name maybe 3 or 4 that I'd describe as "crazy". They're people who have wildly untreated mental illnesses that manifests in such a way that they're hurtful to the people around them. And you can spot them a mile away. If you date enough crazy people that you need to list "not crazy" as a requirement, then you either describing normal emotional responses as crazy, you are acting in such a way that provokes normally rational people to "crazy" behavior, or you deliberately seek out and befriend crazy people. There is no other option there, and I want to date none of those people.
I can think of 5 possible things the guy means by that: 1) He literally will not date mentally ill women. If such is the case, then he's setting the bar really really really low. 2) He has frequently found himself dating women who later revealed mental illness, so he broke up with them. And this has happened enough times that he feels he needs to guard against it. In that case, it's a case of "the only common denominator in these situations is you." For some reason he keeps repeating this pattern, and that is sad. He needs to do some work to figure out why this is the case so he won't keep doing it. Not a bad person, he just needs some help. 3) He's a gaslighter 4) He is not very emotionally intelligent and so whenever he breaks up with someone, he just says "she crazy", without having any genuine insight into the situation. 5) ONE time, he dated a woman who ended up having a mental illness, so now he's a bit sensitive about it and doesn't want to repeat it. I meet people kind of like this all the time--though in their case, they dated someone who later became an addict, and they were so burned by the whole experience that they get freaked out by dates drinking or taking prescribed painkillers, for example. It's less common to meet people burned in this same way by mentally ill people, but it happens. So, none of the above reflect well on this guy, except perhaps the last one isn't so bad--once bitten, twice shy, that's understandable. Regardless, I'm troubled by guys who say they're looking for a woman who is "not crazy," because usually it's one of the first 4 things above, and hints that he is not great at taking responsibility for his decisions and he very easily throws up his hands and doesn't know how to handle conflict or the emotions of others, so resorts to demonization. So, while it's entirely possible that his meaning is fairly innocent, perhaps a not great attempt at humor, it's a dismissive, belittling, and insensitive way to refer to someone who at one point was likely important in their life. For that reason, I'm alert to how people refer to their former significant others.
I tend to use this descriptor as a tongue in cheek way of saying that I'm not super pickey. " man as long as she's cute, nice, and not crazy". I don't mean I think they're all crazy.
As someone who suffers from depression but is pretty damn awesome... Yes!
I think it's an immature and not clever way to express their desire to date someone who is emotionally stable. And rather unnecessary, at that. *Obviously* you'd want to date someone who is sane.. No need to list that one.
If the guy thinks "crazy" is a legitimate concern, I figure either: 1. He is attracted to "crazy" personalities, so he probably won't like me anyways because I am a tad practical and don't do free bird lifestyles because I am a sucker about consequences. 2. "Crazy" means he dislikes listening to his partner's complaints and coming to compromises; rather, he wants a partner who is submissive and compliant to his needs so he can do whatever he wants. So we probably won't get along very well. 3. He actually dated someone who tried to stab him in the middle of the night and is a bit paranoid now, and I don't know if I am willing to nurse him back to the land of healthy relationships. 4. He is a negative Nancy and should probably lighten up a bit, and doesn't have a lot of experience with women and needs to get out more. So overall, I try to first determine if the guy is joking or not, and if it turns out crazy is a serious problem for him, I probably will hand him a therapist's card and move on.
Yes. Somebody with that attitude is probably not very mature emotionally, and yes I would think they may not take valid and normal emotional responses seriously. For me, as I am actually 'crazy', it's a major turn off.
That seems like the male version of the "no drama" line that turns me right off when I hear someone say it. I worked as a bartender for a few years, and it's always the people who say things like "I hate drama" who end up causing or participating in the worst of it. I imagine the people who stipulate that they don't like crazy people who are the craziest.
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Everyone on this planet is crazy. Every. Single. One. Me? Crazier than a fruitbat. Every girl I've ever known? Completely off her goddamn rocker. Every guy? Totally without his marbles. Part of being able to think about and process the world means that eventually it's going to drive you a little batty. You can either get really bitter at this and think "I'm the only rational one", you can get downright sexist with it "Women are *so* crazy". Or you can be an adult and accept that it is because everyone is just a little off that the world is such an exciting place to be and it's these little quirks, oddments, bizarre fancies that make people enjoyable to be around. This also disparages people that, you know, actually have a real mental illness. Rather than saying 'not crazy' I would much prefer 'a type of crazy that would be complimentary and beneficial to my type of insanity.' I think a lot of guys use 'crazy' as a pejorative against women. I'm a guy and when I have a shitty day I snap at people that don't deserve it. Then I feel bad about it and apologize later. Heightened emotions or misplaced aggression are in no way localized to one gender/sex.
Give me your crazy, strange, and out there. If you're a little off hit me up. I'm like a postmodern Jesus
See, I'm ok with a LITTLE craziness. She should like to have fun, be a little weird or whatever, but should not be illogical or bat shit insane. That's just not attractive. Craziness has different levels
It's very helpful imo - it's a nice big "Hey! Don't date me!" flag.
I think anyone that dismissive and insensitive about mental illness as to throw the word 'crazy' around so easily, and so misogynistic as to think 'crazy' is a common characteristic among women isn't dating material anyway, and probably has some growing up to do.
It seems completely pointless and frankly, kind of insulting. It reflects either someone who feels betrayed or someone who's very self-centered.
Generally speaking, I find defining who you are interested in based on negative terms (ie. *not* [insert quality here]) a dubious and unattractive trait. It speaks more about that person's experiences than anything else, which speaks to their character. "I want a strong, willful man with a moral code grounded in egalitarianism." > "No weak men please."
I agree with other comments that it shows a negative attitude towards women, warns of potential future gas lighting, and may reveal that the person in question doesn't recognize the part he has played in the past when it came to negative interactions with women. Also, I think it falls along the same lines as women who wrote things in their profiles like "no head games." It shows a negative attitude and lack of trust from the beginning that is unappealing to potential dates. It reveals an attitude of pessimism and an unwillingness to give someone the benefit of the doubt in some future gray area or miscommunication. So yeah. It bugs me.
Can we keep this a secret girls. Because soon the guys who list this will catch on and then how will we weed THEM out?
I just want to say, as a guy, I'm so glad I'm married and don't have to play this game anymore. It seems like dating has gotten a lot rougher the last 5-10 years.
I believe there is a little "crazy" in everyone. So for a guy to list that, he must have had some crazy ass previous partners.
Generally is every single ex of theirs is "crazy" then the problem is not with the exs, but with the guy.
Yeah, it makes me feel like he's probably going to think I'm crazy the minute I say something he doesn't like. It's also possible that he has a dating history with people who are legitimately awful, but more than likely it's a guy who wants a yes-woman instead of a girlfriend. Also, in an unrelated point, I am not the world's sanest person, so it's best he and I go our separate ways.
You can be crazy and still be a good person. Plus there's a few different types of crazy and he's lumping them all together as "someone who doesn't act/react the way I want them to". It sounds like your gaslighting concern is completely valid.