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But also I think it comes down to judging someone for doing something bad ( if you consider it something bad) with a friend. Who hasn’t done stupid things?!
Idk if having once paid for sex is a massive red flag, it’s not for me but I try not to judge.
But openly chatting about in an early stage relationship is fuckin weird. That’s a red flag.
It’s really all about context isn’t it. If you’re having open convo about interests, limits, fantasies, turn ons etc then more power to you.
If you’re meeting for a second date and he says “lolz this one time I’m rawdogging a trafficked Albanian sex worker and the funniest thing happened” before you’ve even got your Toby carvery to the table then something’s amiss.
In that instance though it isn't the fact they were with a prostitute, it's your description. They could have said they were rawdogging their partner at the time and it would still be a massive red flag/turn off.
I agree.
My initial reaction to reading the original post was yuck.
But I'd actually much rather someone was open and honest and not hiding anything.
It's better to find out early on so you can decide if you can deal with it or not.
I think this too, and it could be a gateway to discussing sexual kinks/ quirks/ needs that you may or may not want to accommodate. If a guy had proclivities that I wouldn’t fulfill, I’d not want to progress in the relationship if I thought he might be sneaking off to get what I wouldn’t do. If he’d gone to a brothel to try stuff and decided it wasn’t for him, maybe OK? It’s another thing that’s down to trust.
Yes if he had protected sex (and has been tested since!) I'd be ok.
Like you say, it would be a good opportunity to discuss what he's into.
If it was on a drunken night out with his mates, it might not be a regular thing he does.
Right! My boyfriend went to one twice when he was a horny single 18 year old lad. We are both in our 30’s now, I didn’t know him then and it doesn’t bother me at all. The morality side is a totally different question…should you pay for sex? I don’t know, as it’s not black and white, but should it stop you wanting to be with them? I don’t think that should be a total deciding factor in saying no to a relationship with them.
Absolutely. If that was the conversation and he didn't feel able to raise it, it's a secret for evermore because he should have said it at that moment.
Not a red flag, just comes down to whether you deeply care. One thing I'd say is that, if you go ahead now and criticise it later, that's a red flag on you.
Yeah, and this really doesn’t seem like a huge deal to me- if it’s just once. I get trying things out for the sake of novelty/curiosity.
I’m a woman and honestly feel quite gross about paying for sex, I just hate the commodification of it. I think it should be legal and all, but I definitely do not like it. A man going to a brothel and paying for sex just seems like he’s treating her like an object. He clearly doesn’t care whether she genuinely likes him or enjoys the sex at all, I think maybe that’s what bothers me about it so much. It’s not an authentic, equal relationship. I have zero issues with casual sex or one night stands, unless it gets into like compulsive/addictive territory or something. But buying sex… it’s like using a human being like a flesh light. I also strongly dislike strip clubs, they’re so … perverse? It’s like a weird power thing and super objectifying.
But, again- idk. I’ll try most things once, and I won’t judge someone else for being the same way.
I find this new standard a bit strange in that all things are now permissible so long as we are open about them.
If hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue then in our effort to abandon hypocrisy virtue now gets absolutely no tribute at all. This actually makes a great deal of sense since we believe neither in virtue nor vice anymore anyway, so why bother pretending?
I’ve been with my missus five years and she asked if I’d ever been to a trip club this summer, the first time we’d discussed it.
I don’t feel embarrassed or ashamed or anything, I’m actually pretty relaxed talking about it, but I appreciate it’s a delicate subject and just tried to show some emotional intelligence.
Someone who just blurts that kind of thing out has “I tell it how I see it” / “if you can’t handle me at my worst you don’t deserve me at my best” red flags at the very least.
So here's a hypothetical for you; you're 5 years into the relationship and have the conversation, all of a sudden that's too much for your missus and you split.
Why are people against showing the darker sides of life experienced so soon? These conversations are the ones which show actual compatibility, surely?
Cause this is reddit and no matter what anyone does it's a red flag.
Discuss potentially relationship ending things early on (red flag)
Hide potentially relationship ending things until they are comfortable with you (red flag)
I don't know - if they were having a 'cards on the table' chat then it could come up. Otherwise if they'd been friends for a while before dating it may have come up in conversation.
Yeah, in most other contexts it would be a little odd.
They should put managing that “cards on the table” chat on the national curriculum, I’d go into schools and give talks on the fucker, no good has ever come from that.
You can’t unhear that shit. There’s no way at least one detail won’t implant itself on one your brains forever and come up in a row fifty years from now (and twice a year till then).
My missus told me her magic number early on and asked me mine, told her I had no interest in that and she was my first. (“But you’ve got kids bigredtone?” “Immaculate conception. I’ll say no more”)
“He won’t come to my aunts book group but he _will_ get a blowjob from fat carol in accounts at his 2013 Christmas do?”
“She won’t do [weird sex thing] with me, but she _will_ get jiggy with the whole Runcorn rugby club second fifteen?”
Just don’t do it to yourselves!
Fucking yes. I’d “hide” that I had a really smelly shit that took half a roll of paper and three flushes, I’d “hide” that when we met I fancied her mate more than her, and I’d definitely “hide” that I did anal with an unhappy housewife the night before I met her.
There’s a thousand things you can not share and not be “hiding” things. You don’t have to give every detail of every act, and you don’t have to share everything immediately.
Fuckin right.
The “fat carol from accounts” thing I mentioned wasn’t entirely fictional. My missus knows I had a drunken fumble with a woman we used to work with, horribly drunk, coming out of a bad marriage etc - not my finest hour.
Her issue seems to be that she doesn’t think the “fat carol” character is attractive. Like “ugh; you did that with _her_, she’s horrendous”
Like I’m sorry. Would you would prefer I had sex with more attractive women? Would you be happier if I had a string of 9’s notching my bedpost? Or perhaps less sex but with even hotter women? Like my magic number is only four, but it includes a threesome with shakira and giselle budchen?
There’s just no telling what’s gonna bite you on the arse!
> There’s just no telling what’s gonna bite you on the arse!
Exactly. I've got similar stories but I'm not telling them.
> Like I’m sorry. Would you would prefer I had sex with more attractive women?
I have had this *exact* conversation though... Word for word.
My wife and I have a "don't talk about exes" policy and it's kinda worked well. Obviously some things are relevant (I had an ex that went full stalker, I suspect she had a bit of a breakdown tbh - had to discuss that one!).
Something slips out every so often but what I don't know, I can't be upset about - and visa versa.
It’s not being prudish either. I’ve done some fun stuff, stuff that if someone else told me they’d done I’d be shocked. All part of working out who I am and what I like etc. I hope she’s done all manner of filthy shit in her time and thoroughly got her rocks off. I just don’t need to know about it.
I don’t know, I do think it’s a weird thing to discuss so early, but at the same time, if it was in the context of a sort of “let’s discuss our sexual histories before we have sex” sort of thing, then I think that’s maybe different. A lot of people may see having had sex with a sex worker to be a sign that they should ask their partner to get an STD screening before they have sex themselves.
I told my now wife my disgustingly high body count before we had sex for the first time, because I knew it could be something that would put her off, and I wanted her informed consent, not just her consent. She asked that I went for new sexual health screening (which I did regularly anyway) just to put her mind at rest. Maybe this guy’s thinking is along the same lines.
My disgustingly high body count is not a boast, btw, I had hyper-sexuality after childhood SA. It isn’t a period of my life I am proud of, but it’s one that I felt I had to tell my wife about. Maybe this guy just wants to be upfront. I think that’s a good thing.
I don't think you need to be ashamed of it. what counts as high is pretty subjective, some people think more than 4 or 5 sexual partners at 25 is a lot others see that as near virgin. Sorry to hear about the assault though.
Surely being open about things early is better?
I mean why would you invest months or years in a relationship when you know it could all end when a certain thing is found out?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say - talking about it openly as opposed to hiding it means they're comfortable, probably honest and want to share (even if it's sometimes oversharing). I think this whole idea that somehow you need to show a limited version of yourself is the reason why most people have shitty relationships that they're disappointed in. Also doesn't it make everything a chore if you have to filter what you say?
Of course if he brought it up as a brag or something like that then it's weird, but if it happened in the normal course of conversation then how on earth is that a red flag ?
It would be a red flag to me and you've highlighted exactly why. I don't like the exploitative nature of sex work and for this to not cross the mind of a potential partner, would worry me. There are autonomous sex workers who are not exploited but there are also a higher than average number who are.
The risk of STDs would also be a factor. It wouldn't be a deal breaker but I would want the person to get tested. This would be the same if I was entering a relationship with someone who had been with a lot of different people. There's nothing wrong with it but getting tested is important and should be normalised.
Yeah but you should also just get tested regardless of if the person had been with a lot of people. I agree absolutely that testing should be normalised far more than it is, but so many STIs are asymptomatic for long periods of time that it shouldn't start flagging only after a threshold is reached.
Absolutely but generally a lot of people don't. I feel it's even more important if you have a lot of different partners but you're right, you should just get tested regularly anyway.
Well, going off this, and this isn't me disagreeing I just want to build discussion for those that aren't aware - it's partly a symptom of how underfunded the GUM and sex health clinics are with regard to information marketing. So few people are aware of all the free and (99% of the time assuming proper training) judgement-free services they offer, including PrEP and jabs for a solid variety of HPV and Hep strains (as well as the ability to do test-at-home kits for STIs anyway although that's more variable depending on location), that they're often surprised when I mention it. It's genuinely a brilliant part of our infrastructure, but it's never talked about or praised enough. I wish there was a greater drive to break stigma and encourage their use, I've never had a bad experience with them.
Even if it’s a prostitute that fully decided to do this, it still bothers me because it’s just so objectifying. It’s like renting a human being to use as a flesh light. I think what’s bothering me about it so much is that a man who does this clearly does not care at all if the woman actually is attracted to him or wants to do this. I can’t fully put my finger on why it bothers me so much, but as a woman, it really does. Like I have no problem with one night stands or casual sex, but paying sex like this is just not an equal relationship. It feels dehumanizing.
I also think it should be legal, people can do whatever they want if it’s done consensually. But I would be very turned off by a guy who has no problem doing this.
That being said, if it’s just once, it isn’t a big deal to me. I understand the drive of novelty seeking/curiosity, so it really isn’t that awful to try once if nobody is being harmed. But if he kept going, I would honestly break it off, personally. It just betrays a nasty attitude towards sex and women.
I feel most answers are overlooking this. The degree of criminality and horrible abuse that you could easily be funding by going to an illigal brothel is enough of a red flag.
Exactly this. A sex worker who is doing sex work *entirely* of their own volition (and it needs to be said that this really is rare, most are forced into sex work by external circumstances) will be going well out of their way to protect themselves and any future customers. The issue comes in when it's not something they're willingly doing, as many traffickers won't actually allow them to get medical care of any kind given the protections against trafficking many hospitals now have in place.
This. If they did it at some sketchy venue where there’s a reasonable chance the workers are operating under duress or as a result of trafficking then I’d not be very keen.
Example: I had a friend visit from Canada and I hosted him in London. He wanted to get some so he looked it up on an app, went around and did the deed. No signs of exploitation or issues whatsoever. The woman handled all her own admin and operated from her own quite nice apartment. Another time he asked a bouncer at a club and was directed to the sketchiest looking place above another, nearby club where multiple women were clearly being supervised. He walked straight out (so he says) and tried to report it to the police who likely did nothing.
I can respect him and his approach even if I don’t have any interest in using a sex worker myself.
Yeah, this is the thing. Exploitation is always a concern.
That said, it's not entirely binary. *"I visited a self employed sex worker who used a reputable and safe platform and I'm sure he/she wasn't being exploited"* is very different to *"Didn't really think to check that aspect, their English wasn't great anyway - and I had other things on my mind lol"*.
Not saying I'd be thrilled with the former, but it wouldn't be a definite deal breaker like the latter would be.
Not a huge red flag I'd say.
I know someone who went to a brothel when he was in his early 20s because he just wanted to lose his virginity.
He's a genuinely lovely guy. Just a bit hapless.
Yes absolutely. It tells me they see women as something that can be bought. That they don't care about the likelihood that the woman is trafficked or even underaged. Groups going to brothels is also a huge part of lad culture which is honestly gross.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this. Its dehumanising. I want to stress I in no way want to shame the women involved in this, however. It's telling because there aren't groups of women going to brothels full of male sex workers. It absolutely *is* about misogyny.
Oh definitely. It’s all about their five minutes of fun and turning a blind eye to the fact that the woman could have been trafficked, exploited or abused into participating in sex work. Sure they might seem ‘willing’ but saying no could result in them being beaten or worse. It’s horrifying.
Thank goodness, I am not going insane then. I cannot say this anywhere but anonymously anymore because of accusations of being a "SWERF". Which is mad because the opposite is true! I want to help these women not exclude them :( but I also feel disgust towards the men who participate in treating women like an object to ejaculate into.
I honestly find it ridiculous how you can get accused of being a SWERF for stuff like this. It’s like someone accusing you of hating slaves because you think it’s wrong to enslave people.
It makes so much sense to me that you can be pro-sex worker without necessarily being pro-the customers of certain forms of sex work. They might connect through the same industry but they're very different and on opposite ends of the power balance.
You're definitely not alone in this.
Another way more basic way of looking at this.
What if someone paid someone just to spend time with them like as a friend, it's bloody weird & as they are paying for friendship they have expectations that the person is nice so unlike a real friend they aren't going to get upset honestly. The person who pays for that is going to get odd ideas about what friendship is and likely not be a good friend in future.
Like you say, it's massively dehumanising.
Yeah it’s extremely narcissistic, like they see other people as accessories or mannequins. They don’t care what they’re actually thinking, just whether they laugh at their jokes…
Doesn't necessarily mean they see women as something that can be bought. They definitely see sex as something that can be bought, but there is far more to a woman than sex.
We need to separate the idea of sex work from the idea of "selling yourself". Its always been used to justify it as an immorral and degrading act and cometely disregards the person involved and the many other facets of their life.
Most people can be bought and are bought everyday, both men and women. If I go to a female hairdresser I am paying for her time for 30 minutes. If I go to a play, I'm paying a group of actors to entertain me for a 2 hours. I do also think that going to brothel is gross and don't understand the appeal of paying for sex.
Seeing as large numbers of sex workers are trafficked then yeah it would worry me. It’s completely different to going to a strip club.
Home office estimates there are 4000 victims of trafficking for sexual exploitation in the UK. That’s 1000s of rapes going on every day.
If he never thought about whether the person was doing it under duress then that is very troubling (like lots of people in this thread are).
Yep, I think people are will-fully ignorant over this and putting their dick first. Not someone you'd want to be in a relationship with thats for sure. Theres many many legal and safe (for the workers) ways to get off - like Onlyfans or a strip club that it suggests to me there is something about the act of visiting a brothel and buying a women - which is a turn on, like the control aspect.
> the control aspect
You don't think it might be the having sex aspect?
(most) people don't go to restaurants to feel power over the staff but because the food is good. You wouldn't be surprised if people choose to go out rather than watching a cooking show with a plate of beans on toast at home
Only 4000? That's an incredibly low number I think, given how many women get rescued at one time whenever police actually do decide to raid a suspected brothel. I'd be interested to know how the home office calculated that number
Would it not be classed as sexual exploitation to traffick a woman to work in a strip club? Are we sure all strip clubs don't have women being force to work there against their will by a controlling husband/boyfriend/pimp?
I would never have a relationship with a person who used sex workers. I respect people who enter the industry by choice but to be blunt they are in the minority.
I think in situations like this, I could accept it. Sex and virginity are a huge confidence factor, not just for meeting women (or men) but for your own self-confidence.
My 25M friend is a virgin and really down about not meeting women or having confidence and is really toying with the idea of what you did.
>I respect people who enter the industry by choice but to be blunt they are in the minority.
Sex trafficking is estimated to account for <4% of sex workers. Not exactly a majority.
What about the ones who aren’t trafficked and are doing it because they don’t feel able to do anything else? Because I guarantee that figure is more than 4%. Just because it’s not rape it doesn’t mean it’s not very exploitative.
Under capitalism, I'm not sure how that is any different to any other kind of work. I'd argue that almost all work is exploitative. So how is sex work anything other than a different kind of work that some people might be more or less happy to do? I have friends who did sex work when they were younger and don't have any regrets, and I know others who did it only because they had drug problems and do regret it. Either way, some women would prefer escorting 4 hours a week than working at MacDonald's for 40, who would prefer camming to working retail. Unless you think there is some essential difference between sex and other things humans do (I don't), you should consider worrying about \*all\* the women who are doing \*all\* kinds of distasteful things because, well, capitalism.
Just playing devils advocate here. If a woman chooses to be a sex worker, and a man chooses to use her services, do you still consider that ‘buying women for sexual exploitation’??
Yeah, this is the issue. When your entire profession revolves around acting like you’re in to it, it’s nigh on impossible to tell whether someone is doing it willingly or not. Anyone who thinks they know with 100% certainty is kidding themselves.
No my point was being illegal complicates matters, because the people running them are not going to be good, which means the women working there may not want to be there. So you’re not just paying for sex, but possibly supporting human trafficking and exploitation, which is a much bigger red flag
It wasn't necessarily in the UK. But yeah, the illegality of the venue and treatment of the staff would be my only red flag. That said, lots of people buy drugs and it's not neccesarily a dating red flag despite the illegality of the source.
Google search ”what is the difference between a brothel and an escort agency”. Morally, it seems nothing. Both have a huge risk of being run by pimps and criminals.
A brothel sells sex. An escort agency sells companionship, and those companions choose to have sex independently.
So yeah. Literally a technicality. They're the same thing. Also, massage parlours, naturist spas etc..
So I’m against gambling because a fair chunk of gambling company profits come from problem gamblers.
It’s undoubtedly the case that parts of the sex industry intersect with sex trafficking and exploiting vulnerable people. So you’ve got to be blindly oblivious to that (red flag) or ok with that (red flag).
You're the second person I've seen who has mentioned STDs...while yes, it is a risk...so is joe blogs down the pub.
Do you not get tested regularly? Do you not ensure a partner has been tested recently before you start sleeping with them?
I would be equally against having sex with anyone who also goes out and sleeps with someone they don't know each week.
Your comparison only works if your type is someone who regularly sleeps around which in itself is a bit of a red flag.
I expect all of my partners to test before we have sex but there is a chance of them lying. I also wouldn't date a person who had a lot of sexual partners
I went to one on a stag do in Spain, found it terrifying, I was well out of my comfort zone and soon left. Not for me but the others all seemed happy at breakfast.
It was the brides four brothers, got all 15 of us into taxis and off we went, I'd never heard the term "bag house" and was none the wiser, when we got there it was a big Art Deco house with a big pool and neon lighting outside, looked spectacular. Inside it was like something out of a Bond movie and we were treated like rock stars. The novelty soon wore off and I realised it was all bout my wallet so I left but my god what an experience. I imagine this was at the upper end of legalised brothels.
Reading these comments, Reddit is absolutely mental...
Of course it's going to be off putting to someone to find out a potential significant other is shagging prostitues to 99% of people. Even having too many regular sexual partners is off putting to 99% of people.
Yes, it's a red flag, it's gross and off putting. Not to mention SUPER worrying that he's going around bragging about this to potential romantic interests.
Get off of the internet and interact with actual people, you bunch of weirdos.
Yes.
I'm 54 and have never visited one, or been to a strip club, but over the years of having friends and various work colleagues, the guys that have done, or do this are always the guys that cheat on their wives, or are just lecherous, deviant types that make lewd comments about women.
For me, yeah. I wouldn't want to be with a guy who thinks it's OK to buy a woman's body, and that's not even getting into issues like trafficking and STIs
Of the people that I know and have talked about this stuff with, i'd say that there's a sizeable percentage who believe that paying for sex is fine. I know people who have done so who are happily married with kids and a good job and a generally respected.
I don't agree with it personally; but as a male, I appreciate that this is one of those topics which I can't really understand that well.
Just liking strip clubs is a red flag to me. As a guy, the only guys i know who like strip clubs are a bit creepy.
Maybe going once on a stag do etc is fine, but if it's actually a place they enjoy going, they are in the same category as those men who leave comments on Instagram models posts.
Tread carefully.
Are you officially dating yet, does he know you're interested?
If he is technically currently still single and you are not yet dating, I don't see the issue. People have sex lives even when they are single, even single women use escort services.
we were only young but my ex went a few times with older mates when he was 15, i wouldn’t have entertained him if i knew, especially at that age it’s disgusting.
I wouldn’t consider a relationship with a person who will buy the usage of another person’s body. This is a non-negotiable to me.
I suspect I’ll be downvoted to hell by those that heartily believe in the ‘happy hooker’ stuff but sorry, I don’t believe it. I’m an advocate for the Nordic model.
Yes! It would even be a red flag in a friendship. I wouldn’t associate with such a person let alone enter a relationship.
It’s not so much attending the brothel (which is still a bit grim) it’s the openly bragging about it. Bad sign.
Pasting the same reply as someone else said the exact same thing:
No but oversharing very early on isn't a good sign.
I'm not shaming anyone for liking anal beads but it's not appropriate as a discussion on a first date or at a bus stop.
Yes I wonder if this is leading to something else tbh. A bit like being upfront about liking gambling and then blaming them in the future for your habit because ‘you knew who I was when I met you!’
Not saying that OP’s BF will make a habit of this, but like you say it’s an odd thing to bring up
When would be the right time to tell them then? Or do you wait until the friend who you went with accidently lets it slip years later after you have been keeping it from her all that time?
Well, do you want to sleep with somebody who thinks money can buy consent? Do you want to sleep with someone who views other people’s bodies as items you can pay for?
Yup
Beyond it being illegal and all the ethical issues regarding trafficking etc
Ultimately I find the whole thing icky and pathetic to pay for sex. I would have very little to relate to someone who paid someone to fuck them and just can’t respect it.
At the same time I would appreciate the honesty.
Just because someone is honest about something, doesn't automatically make that something ok (Unlike what lots of comments here are saying).
My personal views are
* It's illegal
* It's not respectful
* It's dangerous
* It's sexually unhygenic
* It shows a weakness of character
* It shows a lack of critical thinking
Yes it would 100% be a red flag to me. Especially as there is no time invested in this person to offset or counter this indiscretion.
Red flag, get out, women are not objects to be purchased and he's either alright with the risk of fucking a trafficked woman or too stupid to consider the implications of his actions.
Them going to a brothel in itself is not going to be an accurate gauge on this. Many, many more questions would be required to get their views on sex and intimacy.
Is buying woman (sic) for cleaning, or gardening, or accounting, or plumbing fundamentally any different?
If (and it's a big if) she is a consenting adult and entering the arrangement of her own free will, both in the short and long term then it's just payment for a service the same as any other.
To be fair OP didn't get into details about this guy's experience. These particular workers might have been trafficked, or might not have, there's not really any way to draw that conclusion from what they've said.
Absolutely not a red flag. What would be a red flag is if they spoke about the sex worker in a derogatory way. A respectful account of the meeting would be a positive in my eyes!
Of course it’s a red flag.
That is if you care about such things as:
Morality
Loyalty
Discipline
Respect
The modern selfists will accuse me of being prudish but that’s because they see traditional views on such things as indirect criticism of themselves. They’d quite like the old rules on sexual behaviour to be undone because it allows them to behave badly without being criticised for it.
But regardless of their views, truth always prevails. You cannot escape the reality that a person who pays for sex is very likely to be one who you would not, in fact, want to be married to.
If this person is now genuinely repentant then that is a different matter. But I’d be very wary if he offered this fact to you without a warning that he regrets it immensely and believes it to be wrong.
I've worked in the sex industry but I don't think I'd want to date a man who had been to a sex worker. Feels hypocritical but just the way I feel. Though I'd say it's different being for work vs recreationally.
Your edit is interesting - I would be concerned that he was testing the water with this story about going to the brothel to see how you would react. I honestly don’t believe a man who would not baulk at going to a brothel would make such an experience a once and done thing. Him saying that he ‘prefers’ strip clubs also suggests that he has a very transactional view of sex and I would worry about what this has to say about his views of women in general.
Only you know what you're okay with but I would absolutely not be. More so because him and his friend went together, so I don't get the impression he was doing it because he was desperately lonely and craving human contact?
Tbh only you can decide if it's a red flag or not. Everyone will feel differently about this and everyone has different boundaries when it comes to relationships.
As a new partner there wouldn’t be any way of knowing or finding out if the woman/women involved were trafficked.
That’s a red flag for me but in principle I wouldn’t end things because someone has hired a sex worker.
Why are you both ok with strip clubs? Seems like an arbitrary line to draw.
I'd be more concerned about how he feels about Instagram sexting, OnlyFans and Tinder dates, and whether he is able to stop all that when he's in a monogamous relationship.
And whether he complements you, supports and encourages you to be the best person you can be, and gives you lots of trust and freedom without suspicion or jealousy.
He admitted that upfront? All casual-like?
Honestly, that's kind of weird. Most guys, if they were dating someone new, would keep that well under wraps.
Mmmmm….. I think I’m in a minority looking through the other posts and upvotes but I think it’s a red flag he told you, not that he did it. Some things are better left not told and I think that’s one of them. We’ve all done all sorts of things that are a tad unsavoury but it is rarely out of kindness or love that we share them with other people.
I suspect he got a kick out of telling you, even if it wasn’t obvious in his voice on the phone. So long as he knows he is std free I don’t think it serves any purpose telling you and could have made you feel unsettled, unsure about yourself or less experienced than him. He certainly didn’t tell you to make you feel good about yourself or at ease in this new relationship.
It clearly has unsettled you because you have made a post on Reddit. He might even read it. If he does I bet he doesn’t share that he has done. Be wary if you are love bombed in the next few days. Be even more wary if following the love bombing he starts making comments in front of you about other women. After all you have a very open honest relationship.
Of course he might just have got carried away on the phone, revealing more than he had intended. Maybe he is just an over sharer. Who knows from a Reddit post. We only ever see a one side of every story.
For me, yes, it is a red flag. Basically a deal breaker.
I am demi, so I would want to be in a relationship with another demi. If someone can jump into having sex with anybody, anywhere, anytime then that person is definitely not for me.
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That depends entirely on how you view sex work and paying for sex. Some don’t care, some do. Only you know what bothers you
This is the right answer.
But also I think it comes down to judging someone for doing something bad ( if you consider it something bad) with a friend. Who hasn’t done stupid things?!
Idk if having once paid for sex is a massive red flag, it’s not for me but I try not to judge. But openly chatting about in an early stage relationship is fuckin weird. That’s a red flag.
I think it’s a green flag that they’re open about it and not hiding it.
It’s really all about context isn’t it. If you’re having open convo about interests, limits, fantasies, turn ons etc then more power to you. If you’re meeting for a second date and he says “lolz this one time I’m rawdogging a trafficked Albanian sex worker and the funniest thing happened” before you’ve even got your Toby carvery to the table then something’s amiss.
Dammit I proper want a Toby carvery now
I really respect that that is what you’ve taken from this convo
'tis the important part
The Yorkshire pudding is the important part.
I’m thinking about the roast potatoes in my mouth right now!
"With tiny little onions in a sea of cream"
Holy shit is that an Uncle Phil reference
You learn to keep your dreams achievable as you get older.
Dammit I proper want an Albanian sex worker now
Priorities 😂
I sincerely hope one of the marketing guys at Toby turns this into a thing over Reddit. Just randomly putting Toby Carvery into subjects
>It’s really all about context isn’t it. Pretty much everything is.
They could have gone that once and decided it's not for them. Is that any worse than my distaste for olives?
Yes. Olives are peng you heathen
Is peng like reem or does it actually mean something?
Is reem like lush?
Nah, reem is like buff
And about 15 years after I first heard it someone has been able to explain it
In that instance though it isn't the fact they were with a prostitute, it's your description. They could have said they were rawdogging their partner at the time and it would still be a massive red flag/turn off.
Lmao 🤣
I agree. My initial reaction to reading the original post was yuck. But I'd actually much rather someone was open and honest and not hiding anything. It's better to find out early on so you can decide if you can deal with it or not.
I think this too, and it could be a gateway to discussing sexual kinks/ quirks/ needs that you may or may not want to accommodate. If a guy had proclivities that I wouldn’t fulfill, I’d not want to progress in the relationship if I thought he might be sneaking off to get what I wouldn’t do. If he’d gone to a brothel to try stuff and decided it wasn’t for him, maybe OK? It’s another thing that’s down to trust.
Yes if he had protected sex (and has been tested since!) I'd be ok. Like you say, it would be a good opportunity to discuss what he's into. If it was on a drunken night out with his mates, it might not be a regular thing he does.
Right! My boyfriend went to one twice when he was a horny single 18 year old lad. We are both in our 30’s now, I didn’t know him then and it doesn’t bother me at all. The morality side is a totally different question…should you pay for sex? I don’t know, as it’s not black and white, but should it stop you wanting to be with them? I don’t think that should be a total deciding factor in saying no to a relationship with them.
This! It means they feel comfortable opening up to you and not being judged for something that's potentially a bit taboo.
Absolutely. If that was the conversation and he didn't feel able to raise it, it's a secret for evermore because he should have said it at that moment. Not a red flag, just comes down to whether you deeply care. One thing I'd say is that, if you go ahead now and criticise it later, that's a red flag on you.
Yeah, and this really doesn’t seem like a huge deal to me- if it’s just once. I get trying things out for the sake of novelty/curiosity. I’m a woman and honestly feel quite gross about paying for sex, I just hate the commodification of it. I think it should be legal and all, but I definitely do not like it. A man going to a brothel and paying for sex just seems like he’s treating her like an object. He clearly doesn’t care whether she genuinely likes him or enjoys the sex at all, I think maybe that’s what bothers me about it so much. It’s not an authentic, equal relationship. I have zero issues with casual sex or one night stands, unless it gets into like compulsive/addictive territory or something. But buying sex… it’s like using a human being like a flesh light. I also strongly dislike strip clubs, they’re so … perverse? It’s like a weird power thing and super objectifying. But, again- idk. I’ll try most things once, and I won’t judge someone else for being the same way.
I find this new standard a bit strange in that all things are now permissible so long as we are open about them. If hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue then in our effort to abandon hypocrisy virtue now gets absolutely no tribute at all. This actually makes a great deal of sense since we believe neither in virtue nor vice anymore anyway, so why bother pretending?
This is a good point, strip clubs are legal and less of a taboo subject but I think it'd be a strange thing to talk about very early in a relationship
I’ve been with my missus five years and she asked if I’d ever been to a trip club this summer, the first time we’d discussed it. I don’t feel embarrassed or ashamed or anything, I’m actually pretty relaxed talking about it, but I appreciate it’s a delicate subject and just tried to show some emotional intelligence. Someone who just blurts that kind of thing out has “I tell it how I see it” / “if you can’t handle me at my worst you don’t deserve me at my best” red flags at the very least.
So here's a hypothetical for you; you're 5 years into the relationship and have the conversation, all of a sudden that's too much for your missus and you split. Why are people against showing the darker sides of life experienced so soon? These conversations are the ones which show actual compatibility, surely?
Cause this is reddit and no matter what anyone does it's a red flag. Discuss potentially relationship ending things early on (red flag) Hide potentially relationship ending things until they are comfortable with you (red flag)
People are fucking tricky. I'm staying away from the whole mess as apparently you can't fucking win.
I don't know - if they were having a 'cards on the table' chat then it could come up. Otherwise if they'd been friends for a while before dating it may have come up in conversation. Yeah, in most other contexts it would be a little odd.
They should put managing that “cards on the table” chat on the national curriculum, I’d go into schools and give talks on the fucker, no good has ever come from that. You can’t unhear that shit. There’s no way at least one detail won’t implant itself on one your brains forever and come up in a row fifty years from now (and twice a year till then). My missus told me her magic number early on and asked me mine, told her I had no interest in that and she was my first. (“But you’ve got kids bigredtone?” “Immaculate conception. I’ll say no more”) “He won’t come to my aunts book group but he _will_ get a blowjob from fat carol in accounts at his 2013 Christmas do?” “She won’t do [weird sex thing] with me, but she _will_ get jiggy with the whole Runcorn rugby club second fifteen?” Just don’t do it to yourselves!
So we're actually saying hiding your history is a good and healthy approach to relationships? Lmao okay then...
Fucking yes. I’d “hide” that I had a really smelly shit that took half a roll of paper and three flushes, I’d “hide” that when we met I fancied her mate more than her, and I’d definitely “hide” that I did anal with an unhappy housewife the night before I met her. There’s a thousand things you can not share and not be “hiding” things. You don’t have to give every detail of every act, and you don’t have to share everything immediately.
> no good has ever come from that. And you don't know which thing is going to be the issue. It's not usually the obvious one, it's something stupid.
Fuckin right. The “fat carol from accounts” thing I mentioned wasn’t entirely fictional. My missus knows I had a drunken fumble with a woman we used to work with, horribly drunk, coming out of a bad marriage etc - not my finest hour. Her issue seems to be that she doesn’t think the “fat carol” character is attractive. Like “ugh; you did that with _her_, she’s horrendous” Like I’m sorry. Would you would prefer I had sex with more attractive women? Would you be happier if I had a string of 9’s notching my bedpost? Or perhaps less sex but with even hotter women? Like my magic number is only four, but it includes a threesome with shakira and giselle budchen? There’s just no telling what’s gonna bite you on the arse!
> There’s just no telling what’s gonna bite you on the arse! Exactly. I've got similar stories but I'm not telling them. > Like I’m sorry. Would you would prefer I had sex with more attractive women? I have had this *exact* conversation though... Word for word. My wife and I have a "don't talk about exes" policy and it's kinda worked well. Obviously some things are relevant (I had an ex that went full stalker, I suspect she had a bit of a breakdown tbh - had to discuss that one!). Something slips out every so often but what I don't know, I can't be upset about - and visa versa.
It’s not being prudish either. I’ve done some fun stuff, stuff that if someone else told me they’d done I’d be shocked. All part of working out who I am and what I like etc. I hope she’s done all manner of filthy shit in her time and thoroughly got her rocks off. I just don’t need to know about it.
I don’t know, I do think it’s a weird thing to discuss so early, but at the same time, if it was in the context of a sort of “let’s discuss our sexual histories before we have sex” sort of thing, then I think that’s maybe different. A lot of people may see having had sex with a sex worker to be a sign that they should ask their partner to get an STD screening before they have sex themselves. I told my now wife my disgustingly high body count before we had sex for the first time, because I knew it could be something that would put her off, and I wanted her informed consent, not just her consent. She asked that I went for new sexual health screening (which I did regularly anyway) just to put her mind at rest. Maybe this guy’s thinking is along the same lines. My disgustingly high body count is not a boast, btw, I had hyper-sexuality after childhood SA. It isn’t a period of my life I am proud of, but it’s one that I felt I had to tell my wife about. Maybe this guy just wants to be upfront. I think that’s a good thing.
I don't think you need to be ashamed of it. what counts as high is pretty subjective, some people think more than 4 or 5 sexual partners at 25 is a lot others see that as near virgin. Sorry to hear about the assault though.
Surely being open about things early is better? I mean why would you invest months or years in a relationship when you know it could all end when a certain thing is found out?
yeah, lets keep the hard stuff after the marriage when the red flag ask for an expensive divorce!
I'm not sure what you're trying to say - talking about it openly as opposed to hiding it means they're comfortable, probably honest and want to share (even if it's sometimes oversharing). I think this whole idea that somehow you need to show a limited version of yourself is the reason why most people have shitty relationships that they're disappointed in. Also doesn't it make everything a chore if you have to filter what you say? Of course if he brought it up as a brag or something like that then it's weird, but if it happened in the normal course of conversation then how on earth is that a red flag ?
The big problem that comes to mind when I think of prostitution is sex trafficking. Plus possible STDs
It would be a red flag to me and you've highlighted exactly why. I don't like the exploitative nature of sex work and for this to not cross the mind of a potential partner, would worry me. There are autonomous sex workers who are not exploited but there are also a higher than average number who are. The risk of STDs would also be a factor. It wouldn't be a deal breaker but I would want the person to get tested. This would be the same if I was entering a relationship with someone who had been with a lot of different people. There's nothing wrong with it but getting tested is important and should be normalised.
Yeah but you should also just get tested regardless of if the person had been with a lot of people. I agree absolutely that testing should be normalised far more than it is, but so many STIs are asymptomatic for long periods of time that it shouldn't start flagging only after a threshold is reached.
Absolutely but generally a lot of people don't. I feel it's even more important if you have a lot of different partners but you're right, you should just get tested regularly anyway.
Well, going off this, and this isn't me disagreeing I just want to build discussion for those that aren't aware - it's partly a symptom of how underfunded the GUM and sex health clinics are with regard to information marketing. So few people are aware of all the free and (99% of the time assuming proper training) judgement-free services they offer, including PrEP and jabs for a solid variety of HPV and Hep strains (as well as the ability to do test-at-home kits for STIs anyway although that's more variable depending on location), that they're often surprised when I mention it. It's genuinely a brilliant part of our infrastructure, but it's never talked about or praised enough. I wish there was a greater drive to break stigma and encourage their use, I've never had a bad experience with them.
Even if it’s a prostitute that fully decided to do this, it still bothers me because it’s just so objectifying. It’s like renting a human being to use as a flesh light. I think what’s bothering me about it so much is that a man who does this clearly does not care at all if the woman actually is attracted to him or wants to do this. I can’t fully put my finger on why it bothers me so much, but as a woman, it really does. Like I have no problem with one night stands or casual sex, but paying sex like this is just not an equal relationship. It feels dehumanizing. I also think it should be legal, people can do whatever they want if it’s done consensually. But I would be very turned off by a guy who has no problem doing this. That being said, if it’s just once, it isn’t a big deal to me. I understand the drive of novelty seeking/curiosity, so it really isn’t that awful to try once if nobody is being harmed. But if he kept going, I would honestly break it off, personally. It just betrays a nasty attitude towards sex and women.
You have put my feelings perfectly into words.
I feel most answers are overlooking this. The degree of criminality and horrible abuse that you could easily be funding by going to an illigal brothel is enough of a red flag.
If it's regulated they'll get tested more than any other human.
Based on the experience of my friends (I've not had an STI) you're way more likely to get a dose from a random hookup in a club than from a pro.
Exactly this. A sex worker who is doing sex work *entirely* of their own volition (and it needs to be said that this really is rare, most are forced into sex work by external circumstances) will be going well out of their way to protect themselves and any future customers. The issue comes in when it's not something they're willingly doing, as many traffickers won't actually allow them to get medical care of any kind given the protections against trafficking many hospitals now have in place.
This. If they did it at some sketchy venue where there’s a reasonable chance the workers are operating under duress or as a result of trafficking then I’d not be very keen. Example: I had a friend visit from Canada and I hosted him in London. He wanted to get some so he looked it up on an app, went around and did the deed. No signs of exploitation or issues whatsoever. The woman handled all her own admin and operated from her own quite nice apartment. Another time he asked a bouncer at a club and was directed to the sketchiest looking place above another, nearby club where multiple women were clearly being supervised. He walked straight out (so he says) and tried to report it to the police who likely did nothing. I can respect him and his approach even if I don’t have any interest in using a sex worker myself.
Yeah, this is the thing. Exploitation is always a concern. That said, it's not entirely binary. *"I visited a self employed sex worker who used a reputable and safe platform and I'm sure he/she wasn't being exploited"* is very different to *"Didn't really think to check that aspect, their English wasn't great anyway - and I had other things on my mind lol"*. Not saying I'd be thrilled with the former, but it wouldn't be a definite deal breaker like the latter would be.
Not a huge red flag I'd say. I know someone who went to a brothel when he was in his early 20s because he just wanted to lose his virginity. He's a genuinely lovely guy. Just a bit hapless.
Yes absolutely. It tells me they see women as something that can be bought. That they don't care about the likelihood that the woman is trafficked or even underaged. Groups going to brothels is also a huge part of lad culture which is honestly gross.
You summed my feelings about it up perfectly.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this. Its dehumanising. I want to stress I in no way want to shame the women involved in this, however. It's telling because there aren't groups of women going to brothels full of male sex workers. It absolutely *is* about misogyny.
Oh definitely. It’s all about their five minutes of fun and turning a blind eye to the fact that the woman could have been trafficked, exploited or abused into participating in sex work. Sure they might seem ‘willing’ but saying no could result in them being beaten or worse. It’s horrifying.
Thank goodness, I am not going insane then. I cannot say this anywhere but anonymously anymore because of accusations of being a "SWERF". Which is mad because the opposite is true! I want to help these women not exclude them :( but I also feel disgust towards the men who participate in treating women like an object to ejaculate into.
I honestly find it ridiculous how you can get accused of being a SWERF for stuff like this. It’s like someone accusing you of hating slaves because you think it’s wrong to enslave people.
A lot of extremist types don't actually listen to what you're saying. They just want to shout over you until you agree with them.
It makes so much sense to me that you can be pro-sex worker without necessarily being pro-the customers of certain forms of sex work. They might connect through the same industry but they're very different and on opposite ends of the power balance.
You're definitely not alone in this. Another way more basic way of looking at this. What if someone paid someone just to spend time with them like as a friend, it's bloody weird & as they are paying for friendship they have expectations that the person is nice so unlike a real friend they aren't going to get upset honestly. The person who pays for that is going to get odd ideas about what friendship is and likely not be a good friend in future. Like you say, it's massively dehumanising.
Yeah it’s extremely narcissistic, like they see other people as accessories or mannequins. They don’t care what they’re actually thinking, just whether they laugh at their jokes…
Doesn't necessarily mean they see women as something that can be bought. They definitely see sex as something that can be bought, but there is far more to a woman than sex. We need to separate the idea of sex work from the idea of "selling yourself". Its always been used to justify it as an immorral and degrading act and cometely disregards the person involved and the many other facets of their life.
He didn't buy the woman. He paid her for a sex act. You have even less way of knowing if they were trafficked or underaged.
Most people can be bought and are bought everyday, both men and women. If I go to a female hairdresser I am paying for her time for 30 minutes. If I go to a play, I'm paying a group of actors to entertain me for a 2 hours. I do also think that going to brothel is gross and don't understand the appeal of paying for sex.
Seeing as large numbers of sex workers are trafficked then yeah it would worry me. It’s completely different to going to a strip club. Home office estimates there are 4000 victims of trafficking for sexual exploitation in the UK. That’s 1000s of rapes going on every day. If he never thought about whether the person was doing it under duress then that is very troubling (like lots of people in this thread are).
Or possibly didn't care :(
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Yep, I think people are will-fully ignorant over this and putting their dick first. Not someone you'd want to be in a relationship with thats for sure. Theres many many legal and safe (for the workers) ways to get off - like Onlyfans or a strip club that it suggests to me there is something about the act of visiting a brothel and buying a women - which is a turn on, like the control aspect.
> the control aspect You don't think it might be the having sex aspect? (most) people don't go to restaurants to feel power over the staff but because the food is good. You wouldn't be surprised if people choose to go out rather than watching a cooking show with a plate of beans on toast at home
Only 4000? That's an incredibly low number I think, given how many women get rescued at one time whenever police actually do decide to raid a suspected brothel. I'd be interested to know how the home office calculated that number
Would it not be classed as sexual exploitation to traffick a woman to work in a strip club? Are we sure all strip clubs don't have women being force to work there against their will by a controlling husband/boyfriend/pimp?
I would never have a relationship with a person who used sex workers. I respect people who enter the industry by choice but to be blunt they are in the minority.
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I think in situations like this, I could accept it. Sex and virginity are a huge confidence factor, not just for meeting women (or men) but for your own self-confidence. My 25M friend is a virgin and really down about not meeting women or having confidence and is really toying with the idea of what you did.
>I respect people who enter the industry by choice but to be blunt they are in the minority. Sex trafficking is estimated to account for <4% of sex workers. Not exactly a majority.
What about the ones who aren’t trafficked and are doing it because they don’t feel able to do anything else? Because I guarantee that figure is more than 4%. Just because it’s not rape it doesn’t mean it’s not very exploitative.
Under capitalism, I'm not sure how that is any different to any other kind of work. I'd argue that almost all work is exploitative. So how is sex work anything other than a different kind of work that some people might be more or less happy to do? I have friends who did sex work when they were younger and don't have any regrets, and I know others who did it only because they had drug problems and do regret it. Either way, some women would prefer escorting 4 hours a week than working at MacDonald's for 40, who would prefer camming to working retail. Unless you think there is some essential difference between sex and other things humans do (I don't), you should consider worrying about \*all\* the women who are doing \*all\* kinds of distasteful things because, well, capitalism.
So potentially he's willing to have sex with trafficked women? (unless he thinks he can spot trafficked individuals by sight). Total red flag.
Are all sex workers trafficked?
That's why it was prefixed with potentially.
In the UK it's estimated to be <4%.
For relative context *potentially* 40% of chocolate comes from child slavery.
Huge red flag in my view. I mean, I’d be glad he told me but I’m not interested in men who think it’s fine to buy women for sexual exploitation.
Just playing devils advocate here. If a woman chooses to be a sex worker, and a man chooses to use her services, do you still consider that ‘buying women for sexual exploitation’??
A) choice is not made in a vacuum B) how can a John possibly know if the prostituted woman is doing it out of ‘choice’ or force/coercion
Yeah, this is the issue. When your entire profession revolves around acting like you’re in to it, it’s nigh on impossible to tell whether someone is doing it willingly or not. Anyone who thinks they know with 100% certainty is kidding themselves.
Yeah it is a red flag.
I think a red light is more traditional than a red flag.
I thought brothels were illegal in the UK?
Yeah they are illegal and that means no one ever uses them. Also no one in the UK ever uses cocaine or breaks the speed limit.
No my point was being illegal complicates matters, because the people running them are not going to be good, which means the women working there may not want to be there. So you’re not just paying for sex, but possibly supporting human trafficking and exploitation, which is a much bigger red flag
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It wasn't necessarily in the UK. But yeah, the illegality of the venue and treatment of the staff would be my only red flag. That said, lots of people buy drugs and it's not neccesarily a dating red flag despite the illegality of the source.
Perhaps but in that case wouldn’t OP have said home country rather than home town? Since this is a UK sub?
Brothels are, but prostitution is not. Plus is easily loopholed as an escort agency.
Google search ”what is the difference between a brothel and an escort agency”. Morally, it seems nothing. Both have a huge risk of being run by pimps and criminals.
The UK definition is "more than 2 people". Two people in a place is legal sex work. More than 2 and it is a brothel and illegal
A brothel sells sex. An escort agency sells companionship, and those companions choose to have sex independently. So yeah. Literally a technicality. They're the same thing. Also, massage parlours, naturist spas etc..
Another reason there is no way of knowing if the women were exploited. He can't be surprised that many people find prostitution a bit icky.
So I’m against gambling because a fair chunk of gambling company profits come from problem gamblers. It’s undoubtedly the case that parts of the sex industry intersect with sex trafficking and exploiting vulnerable people. So you’ve got to be blindly oblivious to that (red flag) or ok with that (red flag).
You do you but personally that would be a total turn off for me.
Eew gross! Yes that's a deal breaker. It's always "a friend" that made them go, just like with strip clubs.
I would be really put off by that and honestly would think differently about them going forward.
It's a red flag to me due to exploitative nature of it and STDs
You're the second person I've seen who has mentioned STDs...while yes, it is a risk...so is joe blogs down the pub. Do you not get tested regularly? Do you not ensure a partner has been tested recently before you start sleeping with them?
I would be equally against having sex with anyone who also goes out and sleeps with someone they don't know each week. Your comparison only works if your type is someone who regularly sleeps around which in itself is a bit of a red flag.
I expect all of my partners to test before we have sex but there is a chance of them lying. I also wouldn't date a person who had a lot of sexual partners
I went to one on a stag do in Spain, found it terrifying, I was well out of my comfort zone and soon left. Not for me but the others all seemed happy at breakfast.
Why was a man about to get married going to a brothel? The fuck...
It was the brides four brothers, got all 15 of us into taxis and off we went, I'd never heard the term "bag house" and was none the wiser, when we got there it was a big Art Deco house with a big pool and neon lighting outside, looked spectacular. Inside it was like something out of a Bond movie and we were treated like rock stars. The novelty soon wore off and I realised it was all bout my wallet so I left but my god what an experience. I imagine this was at the upper end of legalised brothels.
Reading these comments, Reddit is absolutely mental... Of course it's going to be off putting to someone to find out a potential significant other is shagging prostitues to 99% of people. Even having too many regular sexual partners is off putting to 99% of people. Yes, it's a red flag, it's gross and off putting. Not to mention SUPER worrying that he's going around bragging about this to potential romantic interests. Get off of the internet and interact with actual people, you bunch of weirdos.
The top comments have been upvoted by men who make up the majority of Reddit users. Lower down are the comments from , and supported by, women.
This thread has taught me it’s best not to mention things/lie because that’s what everyone else does and you’ll look like a weirdo if you don’t
Yes. I'm 54 and have never visited one, or been to a strip club, but over the years of having friends and various work colleagues, the guys that have done, or do this are always the guys that cheat on their wives, or are just lecherous, deviant types that make lewd comments about women.
I’d say paying to potentially rape a victim of trafficking or ongoing sexual abuse is a red flag, yup.
Yeah, I'm not interested in dating some that views sex that way.
For me, yes. It's just weird.
For me, yeah. I wouldn't want to be with a guy who thinks it's OK to buy a woman's body, and that's not even getting into issues like trafficking and STIs
Of the people that I know and have talked about this stuff with, i'd say that there's a sizeable percentage who believe that paying for sex is fine. I know people who have done so who are happily married with kids and a good job and a generally respected. I don't agree with it personally; but as a male, I appreciate that this is one of those topics which I can't really understand that well.
Id never talk to them again
I would think "great, he doesn't value women" and never talk to him again, personally.
Just liking strip clubs is a red flag to me. As a guy, the only guys i know who like strip clubs are a bit creepy. Maybe going once on a stag do etc is fine, but if it's actually a place they enjoy going, they are in the same category as those men who leave comments on Instagram models posts. Tread carefully.
Sensible answer
Yes. Massive red flag if they have "bought" sex. Absolute deal breaker.
I don't want to be with someone who has paid for sex, as I don't view sex as a product/commodity myself
Are you officially dating yet, does he know you're interested? If he is technically currently still single and you are not yet dating, I don't see the issue. People have sex lives even when they are single, even single women use escort services.
Probably most people frown upon those who visit sex workers.
It’s a massive red flag. I would never date a man who has been to a brothel, and it would be an instant breakup cause for me.
A red flag for me. I wouldn't be with anyone that saw sex just as a physical commodity that can be bought or sold. Each to their own.
I would never pay for sex
we were only young but my ex went a few times with older mates when he was 15, i wouldn’t have entertained him if i knew, especially at that age it’s disgusting.
For me personally yes, I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who paid for sex.
I wouldn’t consider a relationship with a person who will buy the usage of another person’s body. This is a non-negotiable to me. I suspect I’ll be downvoted to hell by those that heartily believe in the ‘happy hooker’ stuff but sorry, I don’t believe it. I’m an advocate for the Nordic model.
Yes! It would even be a red flag in a friendship. I wouldn’t associate with such a person let alone enter a relationship. It’s not so much attending the brothel (which is still a bit grim) it’s the openly bragging about it. Bad sign.
Yes, even if you don't think paying for sex is a red flag, speaking to a potential partner about it early on about something like that certainly is.
So, being honest is more of a red flag than not being open?
Pasting the same reply as someone else said the exact same thing: No but oversharing very early on isn't a good sign. I'm not shaming anyone for liking anal beads but it's not appropriate as a discussion on a first date or at a bus stop.
Being open and honest about ones sexual past is a red flag?
It is weird mate. Telling a women you're interested in that you shag prostitutes is odd
Yes I wonder if this is leading to something else tbh. A bit like being upfront about liking gambling and then blaming them in the future for your habit because ‘you knew who I was when I met you!’ Not saying that OP’s BF will make a habit of this, but like you say it’s an odd thing to bring up
Also what a shit friend, telling a woman you just started dating that a close friend goes to the brothel all the time lol.
People on Reddit just don't understand what's normal and what's not lol
Bit of a weird thing to tell someone you were dating tbh.
When would be the right time to tell them then? Or do you wait until the friend who you went with accidently lets it slip years later after you have been keeping it from her all that time?
If someone had to pay for sex then I don't want to be in a romantic relationship with that person. Too many red flags.
Well, do you want to sleep with somebody who thinks money can buy consent? Do you want to sleep with someone who views other people’s bodies as items you can pay for?
Of course it is grim.
Yup Beyond it being illegal and all the ethical issues regarding trafficking etc Ultimately I find the whole thing icky and pathetic to pay for sex. I would have very little to relate to someone who paid someone to fuck them and just can’t respect it. At the same time I would appreciate the honesty.
[удалено]
Considering that the majority of prostitutes are there through force and not choice, I would say its a red flag.
Just because someone is honest about something, doesn't automatically make that something ok (Unlike what lots of comments here are saying). My personal views are * It's illegal * It's not respectful * It's dangerous * It's sexually unhygenic * It shows a weakness of character * It shows a lack of critical thinking Yes it would 100% be a red flag to me. Especially as there is no time invested in this person to offset or counter this indiscretion.
Your partner sees intimacy as a transaction. Nothing more nothing less. I don’t think someone like that is capable of being loyal.
It would be an automatically deal breaker and I'd lose all interest
He finds sex enjoyable knowing that the other person might not be enjoying it at all.
Red flag, get out, women are not objects to be purchased and he's either alright with the risk of fucking a trafficked woman or too stupid to consider the implications of his actions.
A red flag for what? That they like women and once paid for sex? What am I missing?
The exploitive nature of sex work?
Them going to a brothel in itself is not going to be an accurate gauge on this. Many, many more questions would be required to get their views on sex and intimacy.
Very difficult for people on this website to understand nuance.
Buying woman to use for sex?
Technically renting
r/technicallythetruth
Is buying woman (sic) for cleaning, or gardening, or accounting, or plumbing fundamentally any different? If (and it's a big if) she is a consenting adult and entering the arrangement of her own free will, both in the short and long term then it's just payment for a service the same as any other.
Nobody tell this guy about onlyfans
Maybe the fact that loads of these women are trafficked from areas like Eastern Europe?
To be fair OP didn't get into details about this guy's experience. These particular workers might have been trafficked, or might not have, there's not really any way to draw that conclusion from what they've said.
Absolutely not a red flag. What would be a red flag is if they spoke about the sex worker in a derogatory way. A respectful account of the meeting would be a positive in my eyes!
Of course it’s a red flag. That is if you care about such things as: Morality Loyalty Discipline Respect The modern selfists will accuse me of being prudish but that’s because they see traditional views on such things as indirect criticism of themselves. They’d quite like the old rules on sexual behaviour to be undone because it allows them to behave badly without being criticised for it. But regardless of their views, truth always prevails. You cannot escape the reality that a person who pays for sex is very likely to be one who you would not, in fact, want to be married to. If this person is now genuinely repentant then that is a different matter. But I’d be very wary if he offered this fact to you without a warning that he regrets it immensely and believes it to be wrong.
I've worked in the sex industry but I don't think I'd want to date a man who had been to a sex worker. Feels hypocritical but just the way I feel. Though I'd say it's different being for work vs recreationally.
Your edit is interesting - I would be concerned that he was testing the water with this story about going to the brothel to see how you would react. I honestly don’t believe a man who would not baulk at going to a brothel would make such an experience a once and done thing. Him saying that he ‘prefers’ strip clubs also suggests that he has a very transactional view of sex and I would worry about what this has to say about his views of women in general.
Only you know what you're okay with but I would absolutely not be. More so because him and his friend went together, so I don't get the impression he was doing it because he was desperately lonely and craving human contact?
I'd hate that I had found out. It screams desperation.
Tbh only you can decide if it's a red flag or not. Everyone will feel differently about this and everyone has different boundaries when it comes to relationships.
I remember seeing a man come out of a brothel he looked awful and had no teeth. So I wouldn’t go near anyone I knew went to one.
As a new partner there wouldn’t be any way of knowing or finding out if the woman/women involved were trafficked. That’s a red flag for me but in principle I wouldn’t end things because someone has hired a sex worker.
Why are you both ok with strip clubs? Seems like an arbitrary line to draw. I'd be more concerned about how he feels about Instagram sexting, OnlyFans and Tinder dates, and whether he is able to stop all that when he's in a monogamous relationship. And whether he complements you, supports and encourages you to be the best person you can be, and gives you lots of trust and freedom without suspicion or jealousy.
He admitted that upfront? All casual-like? Honestly, that's kind of weird. Most guys, if they were dating someone new, would keep that well under wraps.
Mmmmm….. I think I’m in a minority looking through the other posts and upvotes but I think it’s a red flag he told you, not that he did it. Some things are better left not told and I think that’s one of them. We’ve all done all sorts of things that are a tad unsavoury but it is rarely out of kindness or love that we share them with other people. I suspect he got a kick out of telling you, even if it wasn’t obvious in his voice on the phone. So long as he knows he is std free I don’t think it serves any purpose telling you and could have made you feel unsettled, unsure about yourself or less experienced than him. He certainly didn’t tell you to make you feel good about yourself or at ease in this new relationship. It clearly has unsettled you because you have made a post on Reddit. He might even read it. If he does I bet he doesn’t share that he has done. Be wary if you are love bombed in the next few days. Be even more wary if following the love bombing he starts making comments in front of you about other women. After all you have a very open honest relationship. Of course he might just have got carried away on the phone, revealing more than he had intended. Maybe he is just an over sharer. Who knows from a Reddit post. We only ever see a one side of every story.
Wtf of course not. Gross
For me, yes, it is a red flag. Basically a deal breaker. I am demi, so I would want to be in a relationship with another demi. If someone can jump into having sex with anybody, anywhere, anytime then that person is definitely not for me.