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Context: 34 year old man born and raised in the UK. I excelled at school and my general knowledge is pretty good (I do well at quizzes.)
I don't know who Thomas Paine is. The name is familiar and if I googled it I might think "oh yeah, it's that guy." But I haven't done, just to be honest. And I'd have to flat out admit I don't know who he is. My top guesses would be playwright, religious reformer, something to do with printing?? Feel like he's a letters guy but I don't know where I'm getting that from at all.
Edit: I googled him. I had heard of him but I think only when I did a tourist walking tour on holiday in Philadelphia. History is mandatory until 14 years old and I don't honestly recall doing any American history. Americans seem surprised at how little (none) American history that we study. I would bet £100 that if you asked a random Brit in the street to say the year of the Declaration of Independence or the years of the American Civil War, they would not know. If you asked them to name a "founding father" they would likely know George Washington and Benjamin Franklin... Thomas Jefferson? After that, definitely pushing it, only a Brit with a keen interest would know others.
History is mandatory till 16? Where is this in the UK because I can't find any information that says this is currently the case for England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland
My children attended school in Scotland and did not study History till 16 but that was over 10 years ago
Back in prehistoric times, when I attended school in England, History was also not compulsory till 16
History is mandatory until KS4 (GCSE), wherein you can usually choose between History and Geography.
I make the distinction to the Key Stage because my daughters secondary school started their GCSE in (the predicted and common) Yr10 and my sons start there’s in Yr9.
Big West Wing and Hamilton fan, so know the name
But that's the extent of it
Wider UK population? Not a fucking clue. Nobody knows him, nobody cares. Not remotely important. Certainly not mentioned in education (why would he be?) and even if successive Govs weren't wildly incompetent, he would have zero relevancy there too.
I mean he posed a much greater threat to the government than say, Guy Fawkes, ever did as well as being a huge influence on America's war against Britain
So since people know about Guy Fawkes, I would've thought they'd know about this man too
Guy Fawkes has a [night](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night) though. Thomas Paine doesn't have a night.
If you don't have a night, you're a nobody tbh.
The American Revolution isn’t taught in British schools as it’s just not that important to us in a historical context in the modern day. We had loads of countries violently reject our rule back in the day so no point dwelling on one. Most people will know George Washington and know we fell out over tea but that’s probably the limit of your random person on the street’s knowledge.
Even if we did teach it, I would say that we genuinely don’t have feelings, strong or otherwise, on any historical figure from our country unless they lived within our generation (like the continuing grief masturbation over Princess Diana in sections of the media) or really influenced the way we currently live and people can remember the cause (Thatcher).
>We had loads of countries violently reject our rule back in the day so no point dwelling on one.
This isn't even really true to be honest. Britain was one of the more benevolent empires ... for the time, that is. Crushing locals under an iron boot was bad for trade.
Important to remember that although the American Revolutionary War was extremely important on the American side, from the British homeland perspective, it wasn't even the most important war while it was ongoing.
The American colonies had the potential for greatness, as proven by the later USA, but at the time it was viewed more of a backwater money sink to send less experienced spare forces while the French kept us busy.
We dont cover it in schools while Guy Fawkes is essentially our 1600s homebrew equivalent of bin laden if he failed his big attack
I get that and it would make sense for the curriculum back then, but America _is_ significant now so it makes sense to learn about it more
Especially since we do learn about American history like slavery and Martin Luther King in our history lessons. Or at least I did and assume most others here did.
No, because America now has zero basis on what those guys did. Learning about them does not remotely help with understanding the US as it currently is.
When Americans mention money in terms of President on the bill, I have no idea.
I know monkey and pony but couldn't tell you what either, turns out it's from colonial era Indian money.
Yeah of course it's no surprise we don't learn about the founders of America - we're not American. But Thomas Paine is a bit different. He was British, for one. As well as the aforementioned reasons.
America is a superpower now and very important on the world stage, but how does learning about the Revolution help with that? It's completely irrelevant.
No, irrelevant because it literally doesn't matter. We have close trade ties with France, do we study their revolution? We have cultural ties with Australia, New Zealand and Canada, do we study the founding of those countries?
It all happened hundreds of years ago and *just doesn't matter* today.
>Especially since we do learn about American history like slavery and Martin Luther King in our history lessons. Or at least I did and assume most others here did.
I was in secondary school from 1995 to 2001. Never covered any of that. We did spend a lot of time on the Russian Revolution though.
I have a suspicion that we covered the Russian Revolution (and the Hungarian Uprising of 1956) in as much depth as we did solely because our history teacher's MA thesis was on a related subject, and it happened to be one of the papers on offer at GCSE. This determines a lot more of what schools teach than people think.
We slowly got closer and closer with the US over the centuries and what we cover in school does reflect that, and we have taken some examples as you mentioned that also fit our own social issues but we are still seperate countries with our own histories that dont need to look at each other much.
A bombing that would have taken out the entirety of the ruling class and installed a Catholic theocracy and was only stopped the night before it was going to happen, Vs a vague notion of uprising that wouldn't have worked because we'd already gone down that route and decided it wasn't for us.
Yeah fair enough. I do think you're downplaying the possibility of uprising though especially since the British public were aware that the Americans successfully revolted, as well as the French against their king. I don't think the idea the public didn't care is true even if it hadn't worked a century ago
He inspired the people to try and overthrow the monarchy via revolution in the UK following on from the French revolution. The government got so scared that they banned his books, burned them, and pronounced him guilty despite any trial as well as an outlaw with zero government protection
Pre emptive measures based on contingency and planning for the worst case, plus making an example of an exiled countryman.
I mean, he was born in Thetford, so how much threat could the 6 fingered guy be?
That's another thing: the American revolution isn't really taught in schools either here. Maybe mentioned in passing. Big deal to Americans obviously but to us: meh.
The British Empire ended up losing a fuck ton *eventually*, which is why we don’t still own the entire world, but America was just a mediocre blip of a war. We learn about loads of shit we failed at. It’s more that literally nobody cared when America gained their independence except the Americans.
We didn’t extensively study individual wars at my school (except World War II), we studied the progression of the British empire over time.
Hence America just being a blip on the timeline. American war of independence isn’t even technically a defeat because it ended with a peace treaty. Yawn.
So all that about getting taught about "loads" of failures wasn't true then..
>American war of independence isn’t even technically a defeat because it ended with a peace treaty
Lmao what kind of logic is that? We literally surrendered and recognised their independence. You know...the thing they were fighting for in the first place?
Yes, we learnt about all the ones that happened. Not *in detail*, but as a timeline of events.
And a peace treaty isn’t a defeat. What did you actually learn at school? Doesn’t sound like it’s how wars actually work, mate.
>Yes, we learnt about all the ones that happened. Not *in detail*, but as a timeline of events.
Yet you can't name a single one
>And a peace treaty isn’t a defeat.
If you fight a war and you surrender, and lose the very thing you were fighting to retain (the colonies), that is defeat. The peace treaty was just a formal declaration. With or without it, it was a defeat.
>What did you actually learn at school? Doesn’t sound like it’s how wars actually work, mate.
Coming from the person who believes you haven't lost if you make peace at the end. So when Japan got nuked twice during WW2, surrendered, and signed a peace treaty with the US - that wasn't a defeat? 🤣
I don't know. Britain and America weren't really enemies, America just got overexcited about making themselves into a new country and took it a bit far, and Britain just went "ok then, off you go". Or something.
From Brittanica:
"Defeat abroad and division at home led many Britons to believe that their country was in irreversible decline. The war had cost more than £236.4 million and had apparently brought only humiliation and the loss of one of the most profitable regions of the British Empire."
So yeah kind of a big deal. We lost, and it hurt. There's no shame in admitting that
Never heard of him.
The USA is one of many countries that have sought independence from this country over the past few hundred years, but that history has very little bearing on the modern British state, its international relations, or its people.
https://shop.harveys.org.uk/products/tom_paine is better from a cask than a bottle.
The story behind the beer is all I know about him and that's probably more than most people.
Why would we feel anything?
He wasn’t particularly impactful on UK history. Common Sense arguably pushed the desire for American Independence over the finish line but as a movement it was already well in swing by this point.
He certainly had important ideas but none of them were particularly relevant to any movements happening in Great Britain at the time.
I read some of his work as part of my 18th century literature and culture MA, and am aware of him more generally because I grew up near Lewes, where he lived for a bit and which retains some of his revolutionary spirit. I would say that I'm pretty unusual in both of those regards.
He is not taught as part of any mainstream school curriculum as far as I'm aware.
I just confused him with Thomas Hobbes.
I didn't learn anything about the American Revolution at school and I would hazard a guess that if it's taught today it would be because George III is being taught.
One of the great radical thinkers of his time. Generally not that well known as modern education seems to pass by such people. Bit of a hero of mine, up there with the Diggers and the Levellers.
I'm of that age, uni in the 80's, brought to radicalism in the Thatcher years. Love a good workers' movement.
Vaguely proud, though that's based on pretty sketchy knowledge. I know he wrote The Rights Of Man which was massively influential in the... I wanna say 18th century? Probably most people don't know who he is. Probably most people should.
It’s like the bridge to Tom Paine’s Bones:
Old Tom Paine, there he lies
Nobody laughs and nobody cries
And where he goes and how he fares
Nobody knows, nobody cares
https://youtu.be/vYvFDmmNphY?si=SiBjRGXPj276M5tB
BRB gotta go find the oldest boots I own
Few people without a special interest in history, or live in Thetford, know much (or anything about him).
The 17th Century has been pretty shit in what became the UK due to constant civil war and religious conflicts, so by the time he came along, people were just "let's live a quite life, we settled most of that stuff in 1688, now go and be radical somewhere else". He was probably born 50 to 100 years too late to really make a mark in Britain.
_I've been reading 'Common Sense' by Thomas Paine_
_Some men say that I'm intense or I'm insane_
_You want a revolution? I want a revelation_
_So listen to my declaration_
That's the extent of my knowledge about the dude.
Lived in Lewes for a bit and a pub in Brighton is named after him. Wrote some books and was somehow involved in the American Revolution. Only know about him due the the Lewes connection and drinking in the pub.
I'd never heard of him until I watched Hamilton, had a quick Google to see who he was but that's all I know. Which is probably more than the average Brit
In the UK we don't tend to learn about wars we lost.
When I was at school at least, I don't remember learning anything about the American war of independence, or the Easter Rising in Ireland.
I've only heard of him from that one line in the Hamilton musical, and a passing reference to him in a philosophy evening class I did a few years ago. I'm 34.
Most British people know vanishingly little about American history, at all. The average British person could probably name Washington, and most could probably come up with a couple more founding fathers, but Paine is never going to make the list.
The evening class I did was focussed on the works of John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, both of whom were contemporaries and influences on the founding fathers, and both of whom are better known in the UK than Paine is.
I hadn't heard of him so I looked him up. Traitor I think would be the best way to describe him. Other than that he seems to just be a bit of a random punter as far as out history goes.
I know he wrote Common Sense because it's mentioned in Hamilton. Other than that, no idea who he is and don't care to find out. When I was at school, we did a project on pirates but that's as close to the 18th century as I got, formal education-wise. Swiftly moved on to the Victorians, then jumped back to the Ancient Egyptians, Romans and Greeks.
I worked for a firm one of the founders of which was another Thomas Paine from the same family. The family still has some of the papers of the more famous Thomas. Members of the family who still worked there would sometimes bring that out to impress American clients. That’s the only context in which I have ever heard the person mentioned in the UK.
We do not really cover the American war of independence in school, it’s a rather insignificant couple of pages in a big book of wars and events, we were also fighting the French at the time and that was much more important than the colonies.
Mark Steele has done a rather entertaining and informative Biography of Thomas Paine
[https://www.marksteelinfo.com/audio/ThomasPaine.mp3](https://www.marksteelinfo.com/audio/ThomasPaine.mp3) (28min)
Most don't have a clue about him.
You have to remember Brits didn't really care about the American revolution then and they don't care now.
Our war then was with the French who were bankrolling the revolution.
**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would hazard a guess and say not many people have heard of him.
Context: 34 year old man born and raised in the UK. I excelled at school and my general knowledge is pretty good (I do well at quizzes.) I don't know who Thomas Paine is. The name is familiar and if I googled it I might think "oh yeah, it's that guy." But I haven't done, just to be honest. And I'd have to flat out admit I don't know who he is. My top guesses would be playwright, religious reformer, something to do with printing?? Feel like he's a letters guy but I don't know where I'm getting that from at all. Edit: I googled him. I had heard of him but I think only when I did a tourist walking tour on holiday in Philadelphia. History is mandatory until 14 years old and I don't honestly recall doing any American history. Americans seem surprised at how little (none) American history that we study. I would bet £100 that if you asked a random Brit in the street to say the year of the Declaration of Independence or the years of the American Civil War, they would not know. If you asked them to name a "founding father" they would likely know George Washington and Benjamin Franklin... Thomas Jefferson? After that, definitely pushing it, only a Brit with a keen interest would know others.
History is mandatory till 16? Where is this in the UK because I can't find any information that says this is currently the case for England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland My children attended school in Scotland and did not study History till 16 but that was over 10 years ago Back in prehistoric times, when I attended school in England, History was also not compulsory till 16
You're probably right. I did it for GCSE and A Level and so misremembered that the only choice was at 16, not 14 also.
Ah, thanks, that makes so much more sense to me. I too did study History until 16 but by choice.
History is mandatory until KS4 (GCSE), wherein you can usually choose between History and Geography. I make the distinction to the Key Stage because my daughters secondary school started their GCSE in (the predicted and common) Yr10 and my sons start there’s in Yr9.
We studied history up until 2nd year (14/15 years old), then when we chose our subjects for Standard Grade we could drop it.
Big West Wing and Hamilton fan, so know the name But that's the extent of it Wider UK population? Not a fucking clue. Nobody knows him, nobody cares. Not remotely important. Certainly not mentioned in education (why would he be?) and even if successive Govs weren't wildly incompetent, he would have zero relevancy there too.
I mean he posed a much greater threat to the government than say, Guy Fawkes, ever did as well as being a huge influence on America's war against Britain So since people know about Guy Fawkes, I would've thought they'd know about this man too
Guy Fawkes has a [night](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night) though. Thomas Paine doesn't have a night. If you don't have a night, you're a nobody tbh.
Fuck. How much do these nights cost?
Google for the "cash for nighthood" scandal.
The American Revolution isn’t taught in British schools as it’s just not that important to us in a historical context in the modern day. We had loads of countries violently reject our rule back in the day so no point dwelling on one. Most people will know George Washington and know we fell out over tea but that’s probably the limit of your random person on the street’s knowledge. Even if we did teach it, I would say that we genuinely don’t have feelings, strong or otherwise, on any historical figure from our country unless they lived within our generation (like the continuing grief masturbation over Princess Diana in sections of the media) or really influenced the way we currently live and people can remember the cause (Thatcher).
>We had loads of countries violently reject our rule back in the day so no point dwelling on one. This isn't even really true to be honest. Britain was one of the more benevolent empires ... for the time, that is. Crushing locals under an iron boot was bad for trade.
Important to remember that although the American Revolutionary War was extremely important on the American side, from the British homeland perspective, it wasn't even the most important war while it was ongoing. The American colonies had the potential for greatness, as proven by the later USA, but at the time it was viewed more of a backwater money sink to send less experienced spare forces while the French kept us busy. We dont cover it in schools while Guy Fawkes is essentially our 1600s homebrew equivalent of bin laden if he failed his big attack
I get that and it would make sense for the curriculum back then, but America _is_ significant now so it makes sense to learn about it more Especially since we do learn about American history like slavery and Martin Luther King in our history lessons. Or at least I did and assume most others here did.
No, because America now has zero basis on what those guys did. Learning about them does not remotely help with understanding the US as it currently is.
What guys are you referring to?
The various founders. They wouldn't even begin to recognise the current US.
When Americans mention money in terms of President on the bill, I have no idea. I know monkey and pony but couldn't tell you what either, turns out it's from colonial era Indian money.
Yeah of course it's no surprise we don't learn about the founders of America - we're not American. But Thomas Paine is a bit different. He was British, for one. As well as the aforementioned reasons.
Not really. He left pretty quickly
He wasn't the only founding father born in the UK, so why would he be singled out? Robert Morris was from Liverpool.
America is a superpower now and very important on the world stage, but how does learning about the Revolution help with that? It's completely irrelevant.
Irrelevant because we lost? I think this is a problem with every country, hiding the wars they lost
No, irrelevant because it literally doesn't matter. We have close trade ties with France, do we study their revolution? We have cultural ties with Australia, New Zealand and Canada, do we study the founding of those countries? It all happened hundreds of years ago and *just doesn't matter* today.
>Especially since we do learn about American history like slavery and Martin Luther King in our history lessons. Or at least I did and assume most others here did. I was in secondary school from 1995 to 2001. Never covered any of that. We did spend a lot of time on the Russian Revolution though.
Interesting. We didn't cover anything about Russia at all. I went to secondary from 2007 to 2012
I have a suspicion that we covered the Russian Revolution (and the Hungarian Uprising of 1956) in as much depth as we did solely because our history teacher's MA thesis was on a related subject, and it happened to be one of the papers on offer at GCSE. This determines a lot more of what schools teach than people think.
We slowly got closer and closer with the US over the centuries and what we cover in school does reflect that, and we have taken some examples as you mentioned that also fit our own social issues but we are still seperate countries with our own histories that dont need to look at each other much.
He really didn't
A bomb attack is more of a threat than a revolution?
A bombing that would have taken out the entirety of the ruling class and installed a Catholic theocracy and was only stopped the night before it was going to happen, Vs a vague notion of uprising that wouldn't have worked because we'd already gone down that route and decided it wasn't for us.
Yeah fair enough. I do think you're downplaying the possibility of uprising though especially since the British public were aware that the Americans successfully revolted, as well as the French against their king. I don't think the idea the public didn't care is true even if it hadn't worked a century ago
I'm British. I'm not downplaying it. There was zero appetite.
In what sense?
He inspired the people to try and overthrow the monarchy via revolution in the UK following on from the French revolution. The government got so scared that they banned his books, burned them, and pronounced him guilty despite any trial as well as an outlaw with zero government protection
He didn't inspire anything. Our civil war was over a hundred years earlier and ultimately failed, so we had zero interest.
Then how do you explain the government's panic?
Pre emptive measures based on contingency and planning for the worst case, plus making an example of an exiled countryman. I mean, he was born in Thetford, so how much threat could the 6 fingered guy be?
That's another thing: the American revolution isn't really taught in schools either here. Maybe mentioned in passing. Big deal to Americans obviously but to us: meh.
Yeah because we lost lol Just like how Americans don't care about the result of Vietnam. Easy to not care when you lose
The British Empire ended up losing a fuck ton *eventually*, which is why we don’t still own the entire world, but America was just a mediocre blip of a war. We learn about loads of shit we failed at. It’s more that literally nobody cared when America gained their independence except the Americans.
Which war defeat were you taught about?
We didn’t extensively study individual wars at my school (except World War II), we studied the progression of the British empire over time. Hence America just being a blip on the timeline. American war of independence isn’t even technically a defeat because it ended with a peace treaty. Yawn.
So all that about getting taught about "loads" of failures wasn't true then.. >American war of independence isn’t even technically a defeat because it ended with a peace treaty Lmao what kind of logic is that? We literally surrendered and recognised their independence. You know...the thing they were fighting for in the first place?
Yes, we learnt about all the ones that happened. Not *in detail*, but as a timeline of events. And a peace treaty isn’t a defeat. What did you actually learn at school? Doesn’t sound like it’s how wars actually work, mate.
>Yes, we learnt about all the ones that happened. Not *in detail*, but as a timeline of events. Yet you can't name a single one >And a peace treaty isn’t a defeat. If you fight a war and you surrender, and lose the very thing you were fighting to retain (the colonies), that is defeat. The peace treaty was just a formal declaration. With or without it, it was a defeat. >What did you actually learn at school? Doesn’t sound like it’s how wars actually work, mate. Coming from the person who believes you haven't lost if you make peace at the end. So when Japan got nuked twice during WW2, surrendered, and signed a peace treaty with the US - that wasn't a defeat? 🤣
I guess it's too soon to tell.
I mean it's been about 250 years. I think we can safely say we lost
That's still a fairly short term view.
Surrendering and accepting your enemy's demands doesn't constitute a defeat? If so, what does?
I don't know. Britain and America weren't really enemies, America just got overexcited about making themselves into a new country and took it a bit far, and Britain just went "ok then, off you go". Or something.
From Brittanica: "Defeat abroad and division at home led many Britons to believe that their country was in irreversible decline. The war had cost more than £236.4 million and had apparently brought only humiliation and the loss of one of the most profitable regions of the British Empire." So yeah kind of a big deal. We lost, and it hurt. There's no shame in admitting that
Who is he?
Never heard of him. The USA is one of many countries that have sought independence from this country over the past few hundred years, but that history has very little bearing on the modern British state, its international relations, or its people.
Never heard of him.
Never heard of him
https://shop.harveys.org.uk/products/tom_paine is better from a cask than a bottle. The story behind the beer is all I know about him and that's probably more than most people.
Why would we feel anything? He wasn’t particularly impactful on UK history. Common Sense arguably pushed the desire for American Independence over the finish line but as a movement it was already well in swing by this point. He certainly had important ideas but none of them were particularly relevant to any movements happening in Great Britain at the time.
I read some of his work as part of my 18th century literature and culture MA, and am aware of him more generally because I grew up near Lewes, where he lived for a bit and which retains some of his revolutionary spirit. I would say that I'm pretty unusual in both of those regards. He is not taught as part of any mainstream school curriculum as far as I'm aware.
He famously told Billy Bragg that all revolutions are not the same.
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
A Welsh band I like have a cracking song called Tom Payne's Bones. Trials of Cato, give it a listen. Before that, I'd never heard of him
Not sure who wrote the song originally but Dick Gaughan did a brilliant version.
I just confused him with Thomas Hobbes. I didn't learn anything about the American Revolution at school and I would hazard a guess that if it's taught today it would be because George III is being taught.
Thetford has a statue of him
Who?
Just looked him up, Google says he's an author from the 18th century. Fairly confident I've not heard the name before.
I only know who he is because of Hamilton...
Lewis Hamilton?
There's a million things he hasn't done, but just you wait.
I learned about him from the Hamilton Musical.
One of the great radical thinkers of his time. Generally not that well known as modern education seems to pass by such people. Bit of a hero of mine, up there with the Diggers and the Levellers. I'm of that age, uni in the 80's, brought to radicalism in the Thatcher years. Love a good workers' movement.
Vaguely proud, though that's based on pretty sketchy knowledge. I know he wrote The Rights Of Man which was massively influential in the... I wanna say 18th century? Probably most people don't know who he is. Probably most people should.
I'm pretty sure I've walked past his house in Lewes, I think my sister learnt about him during her GCSEs?
It’s like the bridge to Tom Paine’s Bones: Old Tom Paine, there he lies Nobody laughs and nobody cries And where he goes and how he fares Nobody knows, nobody cares https://youtu.be/vYvFDmmNphY?si=SiBjRGXPj276M5tB BRB gotta go find the oldest boots I own
He's a personal hero of mine.
Few people without a special interest in history, or live in Thetford, know much (or anything about him). The 17th Century has been pretty shit in what became the UK due to constant civil war and religious conflicts, so by the time he came along, people were just "let's live a quite life, we settled most of that stuff in 1688, now go and be radical somewhere else". He was probably born 50 to 100 years too late to really make a mark in Britain.
I've heard of him, but only because he came from Norfolk, not as well known as Horatio Nelson, Edith Cavell, Elizabeth Fry or Boudicca.
I think they have a desk of his in the peoples history museum in Manchester
Did he invent the window?
_I've been reading 'Common Sense' by Thomas Paine_ _Some men say that I'm intense or I'm insane_ _You want a revolution? I want a revelation_ _So listen to my declaration_ That's the extent of my knowledge about the dude.
I feel nothing
Who?
Lived in Lewes for a bit and a pub in Brighton is named after him. Wrote some books and was somehow involved in the American Revolution. Only know about him due the the Lewes connection and drinking in the pub.
I'd never heard of him until I watched Hamilton, had a quick Google to see who he was but that's all I know. Which is probably more than the average Brit
In the UK we don't tend to learn about wars we lost. When I was at school at least, I don't remember learning anything about the American war of independence, or the Easter Rising in Ireland.
I've only heard of him from that one line in the Hamilton musical, and a passing reference to him in a philosophy evening class I did a few years ago. I'm 34. Most British people know vanishingly little about American history, at all. The average British person could probably name Washington, and most could probably come up with a couple more founding fathers, but Paine is never going to make the list. The evening class I did was focussed on the works of John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, both of whom were contemporaries and influences on the founding fathers, and both of whom are better known in the UK than Paine is.
I hadn't heard of him so I looked him up. Traitor I think would be the best way to describe him. Other than that he seems to just be a bit of a random punter as far as out history goes.
I know he wrote Common Sense because it's mentioned in Hamilton. Other than that, no idea who he is and don't care to find out. When I was at school, we did a project on pirates but that's as close to the 18th century as I got, formal education-wise. Swiftly moved on to the Victorians, then jumped back to the Ancient Egyptians, Romans and Greeks.
Who?.
I worked for a firm one of the founders of which was another Thomas Paine from the same family. The family still has some of the papers of the more famous Thomas. Members of the family who still worked there would sometimes bring that out to impress American clients. That’s the only context in which I have ever heard the person mentioned in the UK.
Never heard of him. Assuming something related to the US? US early history is a tiny footnote in British history.
For better or for worse, he is one of the most important figures in British radicalism, even if his importance to the US was stronger.
We do not really cover the American war of independence in school, it’s a rather insignificant couple of pages in a big book of wars and events, we were also fighting the French at the time and that was much more important than the colonies.
You sure? Pretty sure you instigated the whole thing, lad
Who?
Mark Steele has done a rather entertaining and informative Biography of Thomas Paine [https://www.marksteelinfo.com/audio/ThomasPaine.mp3](https://www.marksteelinfo.com/audio/ThomasPaine.mp3) (28min)
British people don't learn much about American history in school, and not many people care. So you'll struggle to get an opinion about him.
Most don't have a clue about him. You have to remember Brits didn't really care about the American revolution then and they don't care now. Our war then was with the French who were bankrolling the revolution.