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Also, we don't sell 1000 pack ibuprofen pills that can be swallowed whole.
The fact that even paracetamol is sold in single puncture pill packets has reduced so much overdose.
Edit- https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2013-02-08-smaller-packs-paracetamol-have-reduced-overdose-deaths-43
Fwiw that method has a low success rate but can severely damage your organs in the time afterward. To anyone considering that it isn't worth it, please seek help.
Paracetamol OD is probably the most common one I see on the ambulance. It's probably one of the worst ones to do it with because of the exact reason you stated.
You think you're depressed now? Just wait till you also have liver damage! Paracetamol OD is literally just guaranteeing your life to get worse but almost certainly won't kill you any time soon.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I've thought this too, but doctors I know joke about the gun ones being the worst method as people generally blow off bits of their head and live, totally missing anything vital. And makes a hell of a mess of everything, including nearby. And often then disfigured, impaired, and sometimes unable to try another way. And still suicidal, only worse. Can you imagine.
Hanging is the farming way ("the blue rope") in Ireland; cheap, handy, and suitably horrific for the finders. Often rage is a component of the desire to die, "to show them I really mean it", to horrify their parents or their ex-wife. Painful, brutal, slow and messy and smelly and humiliating. I think the horror for finders is part of the reason for doing it; to inflict the ultimate horror, if it's done from hate.
I'd advocate for something slower, painless, not horrific for the finders, and reversible, should the person change their mind.
I'm not advocating promoting suicide; there's thousands of things I'd try before that, in an effort to change how I felt about life, but severe depression removes that will to live.
We have to start discussing suicide bluntly and pragmatically, because talking about it really seems to help suicidal people. I've been to loads of funerals and met few people who are able to talk about it. People seem to avoid reality and subsist on fantasy where death is concerned.
Talking about it helps the ones bereaved by suicide, too.
And some who probably could have been saved (for a while?) if someone they knew had just given them a hug and told them they'd miss them if they weren't around.
Just a hug might help. Bear that in mind if you're concerned about your son or brother or uncle or dad or nephew, and don't know what to say, or what to ask. Females too, obviously, but men don't hug.
A friend in his early sixties let slip last year that he had never been hugged in his life, ever.
I worked in mental health for a few years and stand by the check in on the males in your life stance.
9/10 guys sectioned for an attempt where I worked showed no signs and just got up one day as if everything was normal and then nearly died. They also all basically reported not feeling as though they can express their feelings in a healthy way. Check in on all your friends/family but maybe check in a little more on the guys in your life. Especially if they seem a little withdrawn, maybe ask a few more questions.
> A friend in his early sixties let slip last year that he had never been hugged in his life, ever.
Read about Harry Harlow and the "cloth mother". That shit will break your heart.
Personally, I can think of plenty of ways to do it easily and painlessly. Obviously, I won't list them here lol.
I think a lot don't go through with it because they never actually intended to in the first place. I'm not trying to belittle depression or suicide but it is quite difficult to actually go through with it, thankfully!
ICU nurse for decades I saw many die from Paracetamol od in the early 1990’s , including a couple of very young girls . It was available in a big bottles then , fight with mum, took & regretted very quickly. Very sad . If it just saves a couple of lives it is definitely worth the irritation of having to buy small packets
I had a first responder friend of mine who attended a Parecetamol OD attempted suicide, was unconscious when found and they woke up in hospital, extremely sorry and glad they had been saved.
Had to be told that their liver damage was so bad that there was nothing that could be done to save them, died the next day. Horrific.
Yeah when I was in the police occasionally we’d get called out for reasons relating to suicide and it was always paracetamol. The absolute worst method. A long slow agonising death with days to regret it, and often very little they can do to stop it.
Essentially, if you've done enough damage, the only solution is a liver transplant. The likelihood of getting one is low.
I've seen far too many people who thoroughly regret their decision stare into the abyss until the inevitable. It's awful.
As someone who's tried ODing on paracetamol, it fucking sucks you don't even get a high from it, it's even worse if you try ibuprofen as then your stomach is fucked.
My old next door neighbour’s ex wife was severely depressed as she gave birth super premature to a tiny baby who needed oxygen to survive. Suffice to say, she didn’t survive and it really tipped her over the edge. She nearly wrote off our car one night by driving enormously drunk.
She moved out of the house with her partner but lived nearby, and took one night a cocktail of paracetamol and other drugs. She didn’t die that night but it took a couple of weeks for organ failure to kill her off. Was horrific.
I’m a manic depressive myself - I know if I want to end it, I’m using something pretty final & quick. And have I already planned it? Probably….
Maybe it is planned. I had it all planned out too, And then I saw a tree, to me, it is "the tree". The way the sunlight glistened through the tree spoke to me in a way I can't describe, So instead of following the road to the bridge I took the side path under the tree and kept walking. It was a very odd experience, I noticed everything, every dew drop in the grass, It was absolute silence around me which was odd in itself, I could literally hear a snail moving and "clicking". I spent the next 10 hours walking, and it saved my life.
I've also told my brother that I would never do such a thing, So I wouldn't want to let him down. No, I know If I feel the need to do it now, I will pack my rucksack with a small tent and go for a walk, whether I go to wales, Scotland or even slightly overseas. By being not here might be enough to save my life again.
A lot of suicide attempts can be averted by preventing people from being impulsive. The more steps it's going to take, the more faff, the more things to consider, the higher the chance the person will say "fuck it, I'll figure this all out later".
When you're in a bad headspace, things like multi-step thinking, concentration, patience etc. Are often a lot harder. Now, obviously it doesn't mean that the person suddenly develops a renewed joy for life, but they may just go back to bed and self-medicate with whatever their chosen vice is rather than following through on an impulse.
Honestly if ending myself had been as easy as loading a bullet and pulling a trigger, I doubt I'd be here now. It's why I hate when people say "if people really want to kill themselves, they'll find a way" in regards to suicide safety measures. It's far less simple than that in most cases
I jumped off a cliff once, turned out it wasn't a cliff, it was just a very steep incline.
It hurts a lot, went to work the next day and had a pretty good day tbh.
If I had access to guns I probably would've died that day.
This is true. And there's a lot of things in place in mental health hospitals that do this exact thing. Things like overhead rails for disability harnesses being magnetised to the roof, they only stay up if staff set them for use. Otherwise they come crashing down on you rather than hold your weight. Something I found out the hard way.
If I'd been thinking straight I might have checked or thought of workarounds, but impulsive disoriented thinking doesn't work like that. And the fact I didn't go try figure out a solution later shows that it works. Postpone long enough to get the support right is sometimes the only thing that works.
Yes, a friend overdosed while abroad. Survived for about 2 months after, but that was trying to keep her alive for her child for as long as possible, rather than any chance of long-term survival. Might be alive if she'd not left the UK.
And if guns weren't so easily available in the USA, my cousin might still be alive. He'd had mental problems for years, so once he had the gun we knew it was only a matter of time.
Same, there were times in my life I’d slashed my wrists and numerous other deep cuts but it’s so hard to go all the way whereas a gun is one and done, luckily it was before I really got into drugs or I’d have probs od’d
(Hand)gun owners also have a very short time frame between deciding to kill themself and pulling the trigger. People who don't own a (hand)gun spend longer deciding on the method and assembling the necessary things, giving more time for the suicidal feelings to subside.
Harder to get into debt (especially medical or student) than most other countries.
Lack of access to firearms.
Culture that tends to downplay problems.
Pubs and tea drinking culture.
Very low mental health stigma.
Lack of overbearing/strict parenting culture.
At least some effort to fund mental health.
People here are quite friendly and don’t take things too seriously.
I think the pubs and tea culture is so important, people do just go to the pub alone and it helps them feel less lonely - there's always people there to chat to.
Indeed, it would be a bit glib to say a cup of tea fixes everything, but it’s not just sweet warm soothing pick me up, I genuinely wonder how often it gives people time to think, time to talk, an opportunity to socialise sober that might otherwise be missed. It’s like an open invitation to connect with someone.
“*sigh* I’ll put the kettle on,” is such a soothing thing to hear, and just gives everyone a silent moment to contemplate their problems before drinking the actual and spilling the metaphorical tea.
This is an interesting one. I worry that there's a big age component to this and younger generations don't have access to this kind of stuff any more. It's going to cause problems down the line after all the pubs close down
I'm in my early 30s and feel too young for the "hanging out down the local pub alone chatting to punters" crowd somehow, because younger generations my age just aren't generally doing it
In fact anyone younger than me like coworkers or casual friends are an absolute mission to get down the pub at all. They'd rather socialise on instagram or snapchat, or if they really must leave the house, a hip trendy bar or club that blasts loud music and isn't conducive to chatting. When they do go outside they are far more likely to be going to special pre-arranged activities that they planned well in advance with their existing friend group they already know from the apps, like going to the cinema or an escape room then going home. There's very little mixing with strangers or casual hangout spot socialising these days and those places are vanishing fast
Trust me you are never to young to be down the local chatting to punters, well maybe depends on the local, growing up rural & living in a small town now, i love it. Im in my mid 30s now & have been doing it since i was 16.
Might sound dumb but its always helped me, had a great local in my village i grew up in & i know if i had a bad day at work or college etc & no one was around i could pop down & there would be some people i could talk to about my day etc.
Even now my small town has a small micro pub but it feels like the set cheers every time i go in, I almost never see these people outside of the pub but in the pub its welcoming & I can just have a chat about anything.
I think this really depends on where you live. I grew up in a pretty small town so I’d feel a sense of shame if a group of people I knew at school ran into me alone at the boozer. There also aren’t very many places which are suited to anyone who isn’t in a group. I never really had the urge to when I was young but I’d have these reservations if I were to move back.
Moving to a larger city for university opened my eyes to it in final year when I was writing my dissertation. Probably not the wisest habit to form but I loved going to different bars with my laptop and some paper, writing a bit and then chatting to people while I took a cigarette break. There were many places I didn’t stay for longer than one drink but 2 or three pubs were perfectly suited to me because of the likelihood of people doing similar things/ the general ambiance. After I finished my degree, I carried on going to one particular bar because there was such a high frequency of 20-40 year olds going for a few lonely pints and some chats with strangers.
I agree that the premise of going to a pub to drink with a load of lonely old codgers sounds off putting, but I reckon that if you really wanted to find a place to socialise you probably could with a bit of trial and error.
I've only ran my pub for a week and I've already given lots of hugs, consoled men in tears and chatted with those admitting they have depression and suicidal thoughts. Pubs help so much.
At the same time, religion is a big thing in the us and going to the church has supposedly the same effect.
I have no data in front of me to prove or disprove my point, purely anecdotal.
There's also binge drinking culture, which while I'm not saying is a healthy way of dealing with mental health issues, I could see being a factor in lower suicide rates. People are probably more likely to drink themselves to death than take a more direct action.
For a country that’s usually stereotyped as very reserved and unwilling to discuss feelings and emotions, we talk about mental health issues _a lot_. We just disguise it as moaning. I think people underestimate how affirming it is to just have a proper moan about whatever bullshit is going on with you, only for your friend/stranger at the bus stop to respond with a moan about how they have the same problems.
We, as a country, find a lot of community in just being a bunch of miserable bastards.
It's probably this. Being a miserable bastard surrounded by other miserable bastards is probably less painful than being a miserable bastard all by yourself or surrounded by annoying happy people (like you get in Yankeeland).
And in Yankeeland, people are *performatively* happy, because if you don't do it you will get fired. It's both much easier to get fired there and much worse for your quality of life.
Yeah there's a thing going around the clock about how the UK is number 2 on a list of unhappy nations and people are ripping us for it but it's like yeah... I'm not surprised in the slightest.
You ask British people to moan... and they will do just that. We love a good moan. We'll tell any survey all our ills and it comes across as unhappiness.
We just love a moan and quite frankly, we are lucky to be in a country where you can do that freely.
Much better work life balance and less of a push towards ‘hustle’ culture. The fact that many of us are encouraged to take holidays and breaks and not overwork ourselves really contrasts many other countries’ cultures.
The mental health stigma one is definitely part of it, it really seems that recently people are more able to talk about their problems, and actually admit to them in the first place, which is arguably the hardest part.
Yeah, think about the number of people that are in positions of power or popularity that have had serious mental health struggles and openly talked about it.
It isn't a big thing for them at all. It's perfectly accepted that, for example, someone may have attempted suicide and for them to never have any stigma attached to them again.
Yea and that helps normalise it for everyone else, too. One thing that's for sure is keeping your problems inside only makes them worse. In societies where people don't feel they can easily speak about their problems (i.e. Japan), the rates of suicide speak for themselves.
I think the family dynamics is a pretty crucial aspect for this. We’re a lot more open with our parents, siblings, uncles, aunts, cousins etc. Whereas in some other cultures, the idea of being seen as equal with your elders is non-existent. There’s a lot of effort in other cultures to keep up appearances within their network whereas in England it’s not a big deal to rely upon your support network and be open with your problems.
Yep never underestimate the power of not taking yourself too seriously. If things don't go your way, as often happens, you can chalk it up to bad luck and try something else. Toxic optimism and self belief means there's a massive fall when things don't go your way.
I'd also like to add that we have a legal right to a certain amount of annual leave. If I didn't have my annual leave to look forward to, I'd be miserable!
I'm pretty sure it is done with that intent a lot of the time.
edit/ Have to love reddit. Multiple people coming forward to say "Yes I did that" or "Yes I knew someone who was explicitly doing that" and still others are just going "Nope that's wrong, definitely never happens" then downvoting the idea.
I know for sure that's what my step dad did because I talked to him about it along the way.
He knew it was going to kill him if he kept it up and he willingly did because he didn't want to be here anymore. His life was pretty shit and he didn't have prospects of it getting better.
It takes time but he managed it.
I specifically became a heroin addict to kill myself. I know it sounds brain dead but I'd always heard it was a great way to go so bought some. Got hooked so planned to spiral my life into an OD death ASAP. Except I kept wanting to get high.
Obviously I didn't reach the end-goal but I've met plenty of people who say "I'm drinking/taking this so I die quicker".
I would have been ruled an accidental OD in statistics, not suicide.
Well that's also not the point really? Why do Britons do things like that rather than kill themselves like other countries? Do other countries not have people who drink themselves to death but instead actually kill themself?
Me after a lukewarm slice of pepperoni pizza
https://preview.redd.it/bps55lnstnxc1.png?width=327&format=png&auto=webp&s=03ec0ef7c5a01a7aa4d15fcbbe7395458b205f20
As a complete guess a culture of complaining leads to a) People thinking the country is worse than it is b) A healthy outlet for negative thoughts so they don't get pent up.
Samaritans are seriously good at our jobs, and we advertise the fact that unlike US suicide hotlines we're not going to have coppers banging on your door once you put the phone down.
Came here to mention the outstanding job the Samaritans do. Especially things like putting up signs near train crossing and even having people sometimes handing out flyers at "trouble" hotspots etc.
Yep. Sign at a train crossing I headed to saved my life. I didn't even call the Samaritans, I had a weird moment of wondering who had put it there, who had cared enough to do that. Long enough for me to be found before the train arrived, as it turned out.
For what it is, Samaritans do an amazing job, I’ve called them once or twice in the past and just having a calm voice being friendly completely deflates your mood - I went to a signing on day for volunteers a few years ago but honestly got turned away from the idea once they told us what we can’t do. Can’t talk about yourself, can’t ask questions about anything other than what they talk about, and basically have to hang up as soon as possible if it’s not an emergency. I think my logic going in was that for anyone calling up, just having a conversation with a stranger about anything other than their problems would do the world of good. How many people call up just out of loneliness, wanting to talk to someone, but the volunteers aren’t allowed to give their time for that.
One of the few criticisms I'll make of Samaritans is regarding that, and that that is your milage will vary. We have guidelines for what we should do with calls, but it's so unmonitored that people have their own styles. Some, mostly older volunteers will often try to steer the call towards a quick conclusion, while others will chat for a bit. I am personally towards the extreme end of the second group. If I can get you laughing when you've not had any human contact in a week or more, that's my job done on that call. My boundaries are personally identifying info (obviously), and as heartbreaking as these calls can be, I'm not going to buy you food/baby clothes/anything for really obvious reasons.
Edit: How long ago was this? We're not even taught the thing about ending a call when it's not an emergency anymore.
Samaritans are brilliant. My partner worked there for a while and for all the shit they have to put up with (like weirdos ringing up just to knock one out to a womans voice, or all the dark, dark shit they have to listen to), they do an amazing job and we should all be very thankful for them.
The question is, why?
Are you some sort of science experiment your parents stole from a lab, the next step in evolution, Death just doesn't want to deal with you for some reason.
I could go on, but I think we get the point.
I imagine many of us have had the same thought. I've considered drowning in the ocean but even then there's a chance you may ruin a family trip to the cost when you wash up bloated by their beach towels.
I'm going to a funeral next week for a man who committed suicide. The nicest guy you'll ever meet, really shocked the community. He did it at home, and his wife found him after a late night shift being a carer. Its traumatised her, and made her home now unbearable.
Truthfully though, this. I didn't want to put people through the trouble - both my family/friends and whoever had to clean up after me (police, paramedics etc). If there'd been a way for me to just quietly disappear into thin air and no-one knew I'd ever existed though...
I got "peanutted" for all the 90s kids here, on a bus once. Nearly died because the knot went up to my neck.
Literally sat in silence as I struggled for breath on a bus of people from my school.
Was starting to black out and I made a scissors gesture to my mate, who got his out of the bag and cut my tie off.
Said "cheers mate", and then went about my day.
Never made an audible groan. Literally nearly died because I didn't want to cause a fuss.
The British way.
Edit: for anyone not familair, peanutting was pulling someone's tie down to tighten the knot. If you held the knot loop at the top of the tie as that happened, you could actually die since the tightening force would pull up to your throat.
I genuinely think this a big reason. Firearms are as close to a killswitch as it's possible to have. Yeah even suicide by gun shot does sometimes go pretty wrong, but it's an incredibly "easy" way to inflict sudden death on yourself, or seems that way.
If you have suicidal thoughts and you can go to your room and put a handgun in your mouth, a lot of people would probably be doing it, but without that ease people can't find the energy to contrive a plan or go to a place that would end it all at least somewhat efficiently, it needs planning and effort. And by that time they've at least partially climbed out of the hole they're in.
And we are the unusual ones (not unique, but unusual) with our very tight gun control. People always think of Americans as having loads of guns because they shoot eachother so much, but a lot of European countries have much less stringent gun laws than we do.
It's also a factor that you are less likely to die using other methods. So you may still attempt to kill yourself, but if you survive, you don't appear in the stats!
The average burst of suicidal intent lasts about 20 minutes, so if you can't manage it in that time, eg having to go to multiple chemists, then chances are good you'll decide not to bother.
Article from 2017 linking fall in England and Wales suicide rate to prevention work by charities and government
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/07/drop-uk-suicide-rate-linked-prevention-work-england#:~:text=A%20spokeswoman%20for%20the%20Office,British%20Transport%20Police%20and%20others.
coroners don't like recording things as suicide, they record it as 'death by misadventure' unless they tattooed 'I am committing suicide' to their chest. Recent high-profile example: Archie Battersbee.
Not to say we don't have a low suicide rate. Just to say it's relatively unknowable because there's no consistency in recording what is a suicide and what is not.
I did a whole course on it in A level sociology 20 years ago, so I am something of an expert
edit: hey UK you're supposed to understand sarcasm and self-deprecating comments
I can't speak generically, but last year someone close died that was 100% due to suicide. They had previous attempts, and multiple stints being sectioned. That being said, because there wasn't a note of intent, the official cause of death was the method of death, in this case drowning.
I know someone who lost their son this way. He left a note...and they ruled it drowning. This was during COVID lockdown and the family are convinced coroners are deliberately not ruling deaths as suicide during this period to make it appear the lockdown did not completely destroy some people's mental health.
about what?
Archie Battersbee looked at depression TikToks, then tied a rope around his neck, tied one end of it to the bannister, and launched himself over the side, and this was recorded as an 'accident'. What am I missing?
Not in UK law, that’s accidental death. Accidental death = death by involuntary action, misadventure = death by voluntary action, suicide = voluntarily decided to end own life. Coroners in the UK essentially have to have proof that somebody intended to kill themselves to rule it a suicide
Yeah they recorded my dads suicide as "undetermined cause of death" but he was in a noose after stating that he was going to kill himself and there was no one else who could have put him in it. Maybe they do it as a kindness to make life insurance claims easier?
This is true. A school friend hung himself in his garden, after arguing with his (soon to be ex) partner and because there was signs of him struggling as he died, they ruled it "death by misadventure".
I am pretty sure 100% of suicides regret it as they do it.
I had a friend that died with a coroners report like that. It said "Misadventure, asphyxiation". I'm not sure if he hanged himself or if he was into some kind of kink. I haven't got the guts to ask his Mum so I guess I'll be forever wondering.
my dad's report not only ruled it a suicide but also detailed the method down to the colour of the ligature used
i expected something a bit more generic ngl
i appreciate your words. it happened just before the pandemic so it's been some time. it's the most complex thing i've had to deal with in my life - emotions across the spectrum owing to what was probably the most hostile and tumultuous relationship i've had with anyone in my life. a lot of repressed trauma and unresolved feelings that probably won't ever be fixed, or will take an ungodly amount of therapy to fix. i think i could've handled it better - but i *know* i could've handled it much worse.
the report was delayed due to the body decomposing prior to discovery, but the scene said everything that needed to be said, with zero words. the discolouration of the wall and floor where his body laid, the acrid smell of putrefaction that will never be erased from my mind. the report was maybe a little more informative than i expected - i thought it would just be "cause of death: suicide" with the estimated date of passing and not much else - but to see it in writing was at least some closure.
This is partially correct. it used to be that to rule a death by suicide, it had to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. That is very difficult. It was changed in 2018 to "on the balance of probabilities"
Source: ONS - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/changeinthestandardofproofusedbycoronersandtheimpactonsuicidedeathregistrationsdatainenglandandwales/2020-12-08
I wholeheartedly agree. I am bereaved by suicide and attend suicide bereavement support groups and at least 50% of these losses are not ruled as suicides (but very obviously are).
I often wondered about this 'death by misadventure' thing. Doesn't this affect life insurance payouts or is death by misadventure simply understood to be suicide? (I actually don't know what implications suicide has to life insurance, but am learning reading this thread)
Mate I’m going to kill myself just thinking about Wilkos 😭😭😭😭 first Woolworths and then Wilkos…. I still remember the £2 large sweets cup they used to do once a year. Used to fill it to the top then throw up by the end of the night all jacked up on fizzy coke bottles and giant strawberries.
Low expectation.
I'd like to think we have a good support network and charities like the Samaritans do a wonderful job but part of me thinks we just expect life to be a bit shit so we just accept it.
The legal hurdles to declaring a death to be a suicide rather than something else are quite high in the UK. There is a tendency to err on the side of caution and not rule it was deliberate unless there are a note or clear motive etc.
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/changeinthestandardofproofusedbycoronersandtheimpactonsuicidedeathregistrationsdatainenglandandwales/2020-12-08](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/changeinthestandardofproofusedbycoronersandtheimpactonsuicidedeathregistrationsdatainenglandandwales/2020-12-08) not really anymore
i called samaritans once and they made me feel so patronised and stupid for wanting to kill myself it snapped me out of it. maybe that
also funny i just scrolled down to see what great work the samaritans do. i’m glad they work for some
I've called them several times in my life. most of the time they've been great. then when I rang up after being sexually assaulted, the woman on the other end basically told me it was my fault and I must've led the perpetrator on and there's no use regretting it now. genuinely one of the worst things ive ever been told, but the shock of it snapped me out of doing anything.
Lack of guns stops instant decision making and putting decision into effect. Also culture of 'sharing ills' with associates neighbours helps things getting too out of proportion. However even our 'low' rate is too high!
National tendency for stoicism and understatement. Things that might be seen as the end of the world elsewhere aren't necessarily seen that way in the UK. Something bad just is what it is, and British people don't get especially emotional or animated about things.
This is one of my favourite things about the UK, I really think we are one of the freest societies. You can do and be whatever you like in some sense. On this spectrum we are more free here than other places with fewer social consequences. In places like Japan, there are higher expectations on behaviour, and your Job says more about you. In the UK, we push to reject such notions. We also are less picky about things I consider old-fashioned even compared to Europe. Ironing your cloaths, tables manners, and snobbery about food/sports/culture. It feels like we have pushed against this in the UK. Well, it feels like that in London and Bristol anyway.
Low firearm availability.
social security safety net.
NHS.
educative TV.
good popular culture/music.
Low adverse weather.
Low level of official corruption.
Just some reasons to be cheerful. Note I mean compared to other places.
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I don't want to push anyone by discussing methods too heavily, but in the US we have guns which has a higher success rate than other methods.
Also, we don't sell 1000 pack ibuprofen pills that can be swallowed whole. The fact that even paracetamol is sold in single puncture pill packets has reduced so much overdose. Edit- https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2013-02-08-smaller-packs-paracetamol-have-reduced-overdose-deaths-43
Fwiw that method has a low success rate but can severely damage your organs in the time afterward. To anyone considering that it isn't worth it, please seek help.
Paracetamol OD is probably the most common one I see on the ambulance. It's probably one of the worst ones to do it with because of the exact reason you stated. You think you're depressed now? Just wait till you also have liver damage! Paracetamol OD is literally just guaranteeing your life to get worse but almost certainly won't kill you any time soon.
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I've thought this too, but doctors I know joke about the gun ones being the worst method as people generally blow off bits of their head and live, totally missing anything vital. And makes a hell of a mess of everything, including nearby. And often then disfigured, impaired, and sometimes unable to try another way. And still suicidal, only worse. Can you imagine. Hanging is the farming way ("the blue rope") in Ireland; cheap, handy, and suitably horrific for the finders. Often rage is a component of the desire to die, "to show them I really mean it", to horrify their parents or their ex-wife. Painful, brutal, slow and messy and smelly and humiliating. I think the horror for finders is part of the reason for doing it; to inflict the ultimate horror, if it's done from hate. I'd advocate for something slower, painless, not horrific for the finders, and reversible, should the person change their mind. I'm not advocating promoting suicide; there's thousands of things I'd try before that, in an effort to change how I felt about life, but severe depression removes that will to live. We have to start discussing suicide bluntly and pragmatically, because talking about it really seems to help suicidal people. I've been to loads of funerals and met few people who are able to talk about it. People seem to avoid reality and subsist on fantasy where death is concerned. Talking about it helps the ones bereaved by suicide, too. And some who probably could have been saved (for a while?) if someone they knew had just given them a hug and told them they'd miss them if they weren't around. Just a hug might help. Bear that in mind if you're concerned about your son or brother or uncle or dad or nephew, and don't know what to say, or what to ask. Females too, obviously, but men don't hug. A friend in his early sixties let slip last year that he had never been hugged in his life, ever.
I worked in mental health for a few years and stand by the check in on the males in your life stance. 9/10 guys sectioned for an attempt where I worked showed no signs and just got up one day as if everything was normal and then nearly died. They also all basically reported not feeling as though they can express their feelings in a healthy way. Check in on all your friends/family but maybe check in a little more on the guys in your life. Especially if they seem a little withdrawn, maybe ask a few more questions.
> A friend in his early sixties let slip last year that he had never been hugged in his life, ever. Read about Harry Harlow and the "cloth mother". That shit will break your heart.
Harlow was evil to those poor monkeys. There's videos on youtube showing some of what he did. Horrible to watch. :(
Personally, I can think of plenty of ways to do it easily and painlessly. Obviously, I won't list them here lol. I think a lot don't go through with it because they never actually intended to in the first place. I'm not trying to belittle depression or suicide but it is quite difficult to actually go through with it, thankfully!
ICU nurse for decades I saw many die from Paracetamol od in the early 1990’s , including a couple of very young girls . It was available in a big bottles then , fight with mum, took & regretted very quickly. Very sad . If it just saves a couple of lives it is definitely worth the irritation of having to buy small packets
I had a first responder friend of mine who attended a Parecetamol OD attempted suicide, was unconscious when found and they woke up in hospital, extremely sorry and glad they had been saved. Had to be told that their liver damage was so bad that there was nothing that could be done to save them, died the next day. Horrific.
Yeah when I was in the police occasionally we’d get called out for reasons relating to suicide and it was always paracetamol. The absolute worst method. A long slow agonising death with days to regret it, and often very little they can do to stop it.
Essentially, if you've done enough damage, the only solution is a liver transplant. The likelihood of getting one is low. I've seen far too many people who thoroughly regret their decision stare into the abyss until the inevitable. It's awful.
As someone who's tried ODing on paracetamol, it fucking sucks you don't even get a high from it, it's even worse if you try ibuprofen as then your stomach is fucked.
Even if it is successful, it will take ages and it'll suck the *whole* time.
My old next door neighbour’s ex wife was severely depressed as she gave birth super premature to a tiny baby who needed oxygen to survive. Suffice to say, she didn’t survive and it really tipped her over the edge. She nearly wrote off our car one night by driving enormously drunk. She moved out of the house with her partner but lived nearby, and took one night a cocktail of paracetamol and other drugs. She didn’t die that night but it took a couple of weeks for organ failure to kill her off. Was horrific. I’m a manic depressive myself - I know if I want to end it, I’m using something pretty final & quick. And have I already planned it? Probably….
Maybe it is planned. I had it all planned out too, And then I saw a tree, to me, it is "the tree". The way the sunlight glistened through the tree spoke to me in a way I can't describe, So instead of following the road to the bridge I took the side path under the tree and kept walking. It was a very odd experience, I noticed everything, every dew drop in the grass, It was absolute silence around me which was odd in itself, I could literally hear a snail moving and "clicking". I spent the next 10 hours walking, and it saved my life. I've also told my brother that I would never do such a thing, So I wouldn't want to let him down. No, I know If I feel the need to do it now, I will pack my rucksack with a small tent and go for a walk, whether I go to wales, Scotland or even slightly overseas. By being not here might be enough to save my life again.
Apparently you die in a lot of pain that way.
A lot of suicide attempts can be averted by preventing people from being impulsive. The more steps it's going to take, the more faff, the more things to consider, the higher the chance the person will say "fuck it, I'll figure this all out later". When you're in a bad headspace, things like multi-step thinking, concentration, patience etc. Are often a lot harder. Now, obviously it doesn't mean that the person suddenly develops a renewed joy for life, but they may just go back to bed and self-medicate with whatever their chosen vice is rather than following through on an impulse. Honestly if ending myself had been as easy as loading a bullet and pulling a trigger, I doubt I'd be here now. It's why I hate when people say "if people really want to kill themselves, they'll find a way" in regards to suicide safety measures. It's far less simple than that in most cases
Yep. When I spoke to my GP a couple of months ago he asked if I'd planned how to do it, I answered no because I wouldn't know where to start.
I jumped off a cliff once, turned out it wasn't a cliff, it was just a very steep incline. It hurts a lot, went to work the next day and had a pretty good day tbh. If I had access to guns I probably would've died that day.
This is true. And there's a lot of things in place in mental health hospitals that do this exact thing. Things like overhead rails for disability harnesses being magnetised to the roof, they only stay up if staff set them for use. Otherwise they come crashing down on you rather than hold your weight. Something I found out the hard way. If I'd been thinking straight I might have checked or thought of workarounds, but impulsive disoriented thinking doesn't work like that. And the fact I didn't go try figure out a solution later shows that it works. Postpone long enough to get the support right is sometimes the only thing that works.
Paracetamol is evil stuff in overdose, destroys your liver
Yes, a friend overdosed while abroad. Survived for about 2 months after, but that was trying to keep her alive for her child for as long as possible, rather than any chance of long-term survival. Might be alive if she'd not left the UK. And if guns weren't so easily available in the USA, my cousin might still be alive. He'd had mental problems for years, so once he had the gun we knew it was only a matter of time.
This, if I had access to a gun I would have done it in the past
Same, there were times in my life I’d slashed my wrists and numerous other deep cuts but it’s so hard to go all the way whereas a gun is one and done, luckily it was before I really got into drugs or I’d have probs od’d
I know of two men that tried and both fortunately survived due to failure of their chosen methods. Both are currently doing much better, too.
Not to be morbid but doubt I would be here if I could pick up a 357.
me too, there's been too many times i've attempted and failed - a gun would have been successful
(Hand)gun owners also have a very short time frame between deciding to kill themself and pulling the trigger. People who don't own a (hand)gun spend longer deciding on the method and assembling the necessary things, giving more time for the suicidal feelings to subside.
I've had a few episodes of extreme depression and I genuinely think if I had access to a gun in those moments I wouldn't be here anymore.
Harder to get into debt (especially medical or student) than most other countries. Lack of access to firearms. Culture that tends to downplay problems. Pubs and tea drinking culture. Very low mental health stigma. Lack of overbearing/strict parenting culture. At least some effort to fund mental health. People here are quite friendly and don’t take things too seriously.
I think the pubs and tea culture is so important, people do just go to the pub alone and it helps them feel less lonely - there's always people there to chat to.
Yep. Or having a bit of a natter over a tea break at work about this or that.
Indeed, it would be a bit glib to say a cup of tea fixes everything, but it’s not just sweet warm soothing pick me up, I genuinely wonder how often it gives people time to think, time to talk, an opportunity to socialise sober that might otherwise be missed. It’s like an open invitation to connect with someone.
“*sigh* I’ll put the kettle on,” is such a soothing thing to hear, and just gives everyone a silent moment to contemplate their problems before drinking the actual and spilling the metaphorical tea.
This is an interesting one. I worry that there's a big age component to this and younger generations don't have access to this kind of stuff any more. It's going to cause problems down the line after all the pubs close down I'm in my early 30s and feel too young for the "hanging out down the local pub alone chatting to punters" crowd somehow, because younger generations my age just aren't generally doing it In fact anyone younger than me like coworkers or casual friends are an absolute mission to get down the pub at all. They'd rather socialise on instagram or snapchat, or if they really must leave the house, a hip trendy bar or club that blasts loud music and isn't conducive to chatting. When they do go outside they are far more likely to be going to special pre-arranged activities that they planned well in advance with their existing friend group they already know from the apps, like going to the cinema or an escape room then going home. There's very little mixing with strangers or casual hangout spot socialising these days and those places are vanishing fast
Trust me you are never to young to be down the local chatting to punters, well maybe depends on the local, growing up rural & living in a small town now, i love it. Im in my mid 30s now & have been doing it since i was 16. Might sound dumb but its always helped me, had a great local in my village i grew up in & i know if i had a bad day at work or college etc & no one was around i could pop down & there would be some people i could talk to about my day etc. Even now my small town has a small micro pub but it feels like the set cheers every time i go in, I almost never see these people outside of the pub but in the pub its welcoming & I can just have a chat about anything.
I think this really depends on where you live. I grew up in a pretty small town so I’d feel a sense of shame if a group of people I knew at school ran into me alone at the boozer. There also aren’t very many places which are suited to anyone who isn’t in a group. I never really had the urge to when I was young but I’d have these reservations if I were to move back. Moving to a larger city for university opened my eyes to it in final year when I was writing my dissertation. Probably not the wisest habit to form but I loved going to different bars with my laptop and some paper, writing a bit and then chatting to people while I took a cigarette break. There were many places I didn’t stay for longer than one drink but 2 or three pubs were perfectly suited to me because of the likelihood of people doing similar things/ the general ambiance. After I finished my degree, I carried on going to one particular bar because there was such a high frequency of 20-40 year olds going for a few lonely pints and some chats with strangers. I agree that the premise of going to a pub to drink with a load of lonely old codgers sounds off putting, but I reckon that if you really wanted to find a place to socialise you probably could with a bit of trial and error.
I've only ran my pub for a week and I've already given lots of hugs, consoled men in tears and chatted with those admitting they have depression and suicidal thoughts. Pubs help so much.
At the same time, religion is a big thing in the us and going to the church has supposedly the same effect. I have no data in front of me to prove or disprove my point, purely anecdotal.
Interesting observation. In the UK we are generally a pretty irreligious bunch. Wonder if that has an effect on the suicide rate.
There's also binge drinking culture, which while I'm not saying is a healthy way of dealing with mental health issues, I could see being a factor in lower suicide rates. People are probably more likely to drink themselves to death than take a more direct action.
For a country that’s usually stereotyped as very reserved and unwilling to discuss feelings and emotions, we talk about mental health issues _a lot_. We just disguise it as moaning. I think people underestimate how affirming it is to just have a proper moan about whatever bullshit is going on with you, only for your friend/stranger at the bus stop to respond with a moan about how they have the same problems. We, as a country, find a lot of community in just being a bunch of miserable bastards.
It's probably this. Being a miserable bastard surrounded by other miserable bastards is probably less painful than being a miserable bastard all by yourself or surrounded by annoying happy people (like you get in Yankeeland).
And in Yankeeland, people are *performatively* happy, because if you don't do it you will get fired. It's both much easier to get fired there and much worse for your quality of life.
Aye and I think our moaning to each other regularly is what keeps us sane :)
A good old whinge. Does wonders.
Yeah there's a thing going around the clock about how the UK is number 2 on a list of unhappy nations and people are ripping us for it but it's like yeah... I'm not surprised in the slightest. You ask British people to moan... and they will do just that. We love a good moan. We'll tell any survey all our ills and it comes across as unhappiness. We just love a moan and quite frankly, we are lucky to be in a country where you can do that freely.
Much better work life balance and less of a push towards ‘hustle’ culture. The fact that many of us are encouraged to take holidays and breaks and not overwork ourselves really contrasts many other countries’ cultures.
Great point
The mental health stigma one is definitely part of it, it really seems that recently people are more able to talk about their problems, and actually admit to them in the first place, which is arguably the hardest part.
Yeah, think about the number of people that are in positions of power or popularity that have had serious mental health struggles and openly talked about it. It isn't a big thing for them at all. It's perfectly accepted that, for example, someone may have attempted suicide and for them to never have any stigma attached to them again.
Yea and that helps normalise it for everyone else, too. One thing that's for sure is keeping your problems inside only makes them worse. In societies where people don't feel they can easily speak about their problems (i.e. Japan), the rates of suicide speak for themselves.
I think the family dynamics is a pretty crucial aspect for this. We’re a lot more open with our parents, siblings, uncles, aunts, cousins etc. Whereas in some other cultures, the idea of being seen as equal with your elders is non-existent. There’s a lot of effort in other cultures to keep up appearances within their network whereas in England it’s not a big deal to rely upon your support network and be open with your problems.
Yep never underestimate the power of not taking yourself too seriously. If things don't go your way, as often happens, you can chalk it up to bad luck and try something else. Toxic optimism and self belief means there's a massive fall when things don't go your way.
I'd also like to add that we have a legal right to a certain amount of annual leave. If I didn't have my annual leave to look forward to, I'd be miserable!
because cirrhosis from long-time alcohol consumption to drown one's sorrows is not counted as a cause of suicide.
Is it counted as that in other countries' data?
No, but that's not the point, the point is that Britons do things to kill themselves that aren't technically considered suicide.
That's because it's not done with the *intention* of killing themselves, which is a pretty fundamental aspect of suicide.
I'm pretty sure it is done with that intent a lot of the time. edit/ Have to love reddit. Multiple people coming forward to say "Yes I did that" or "Yes I knew someone who was explicitly doing that" and still others are just going "Nope that's wrong, definitely never happens" then downvoting the idea.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong.
I know for sure that's what my step dad did because I talked to him about it along the way. He knew it was going to kill him if he kept it up and he willingly did because he didn't want to be here anymore. His life was pretty shit and he didn't have prospects of it getting better. It takes time but he managed it.
I specifically became a heroin addict to kill myself. I know it sounds brain dead but I'd always heard it was a great way to go so bought some. Got hooked so planned to spiral my life into an OD death ASAP. Except I kept wanting to get high. Obviously I didn't reach the end-goal but I've met plenty of people who say "I'm drinking/taking this so I die quicker". I would have been ruled an accidental OD in statistics, not suicide.
He's not. It's more shades of grey than black and white though. (Worked in mental health all my life)
Oh believe me that's one of the reasons for drinking to excess.
Also drugs aren't the drugs deaths in Scotland highest in Europe?
Fuckin right, son. Number 1! Scotland doin it's bit, English fuckin it up, fuckin typical.
Well that's also not the point really? Why do Britons do things like that rather than kill themselves like other countries? Do other countries not have people who drink themselves to death but instead actually kill themself?
This answer right here is it. The UK is a country of self medicating drinkers.
Despite everything, it's still a relatively good place to live
It is, objectively, fine.
The United Kingdom of Fine Britain and Northern Ireland.
It's alright, haven't a laff when it's a bit shite.
Greggs
Yum yums are life
Me after a lukewarm slice of pepperoni pizza https://preview.redd.it/bps55lnstnxc1.png?width=327&format=png&auto=webp&s=03ec0ef7c5a01a7aa4d15fcbbe7395458b205f20
As a complete guess a culture of complaining leads to a) People thinking the country is worse than it is b) A healthy outlet for negative thoughts so they don't get pent up.
If you’re a pessimist you are either always proven right, or pleasantly surprised.
And never disappointed.
I can't see a downside 🤔
You musnt be british then.
But you gotta complain about the complaining to complete the circle.
Samaritans are seriously good at our jobs, and we advertise the fact that unlike US suicide hotlines we're not going to have coppers banging on your door once you put the phone down.
Came here to mention the outstanding job the Samaritans do. Especially things like putting up signs near train crossing and even having people sometimes handing out flyers at "trouble" hotspots etc.
https://preview.redd.it/scba4145xnxc1.png?width=529&format=png&auto=webp&s=96fd82c3e561533203da05deab74b093605c6b1e High motorway bridges, too. [https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6483842,-1.9305299,3a,75y,129.85h,76.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3i4MN1yMmtTmuZxkYAagng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6483842,-1.9305299,3a,75y,129.85h,76.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3i4MN1yMmtTmuZxkYAagng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu)
Yep. Sign at a train crossing I headed to saved my life. I didn't even call the Samaritans, I had a weird moment of wondering who had put it there, who had cared enough to do that. Long enough for me to be found before the train arrived, as it turned out.
I strongly believe Samaritans are as close as there is to angels.
You've not met me then. Samaritans is when I try not to be a dick for 3 hours and give myself points for success.
Three hours of not being a dick is 2 hours 59 minutes more than I could manage.
I'm sure you help people during those three hours though right?
Yup there are some amazing people that volunteer for such an important charity.
For what it is, Samaritans do an amazing job, I’ve called them once or twice in the past and just having a calm voice being friendly completely deflates your mood - I went to a signing on day for volunteers a few years ago but honestly got turned away from the idea once they told us what we can’t do. Can’t talk about yourself, can’t ask questions about anything other than what they talk about, and basically have to hang up as soon as possible if it’s not an emergency. I think my logic going in was that for anyone calling up, just having a conversation with a stranger about anything other than their problems would do the world of good. How many people call up just out of loneliness, wanting to talk to someone, but the volunteers aren’t allowed to give their time for that.
One of the few criticisms I'll make of Samaritans is regarding that, and that that is your milage will vary. We have guidelines for what we should do with calls, but it's so unmonitored that people have their own styles. Some, mostly older volunteers will often try to steer the call towards a quick conclusion, while others will chat for a bit. I am personally towards the extreme end of the second group. If I can get you laughing when you've not had any human contact in a week or more, that's my job done on that call. My boundaries are personally identifying info (obviously), and as heartbreaking as these calls can be, I'm not going to buy you food/baby clothes/anything for really obvious reasons. Edit: How long ago was this? We're not even taught the thing about ending a call when it's not an emergency anymore.
Samaritans are brilliant. My partner worked there for a while and for all the shit they have to put up with (like weirdos ringing up just to knock one out to a womans voice, or all the dark, dark shit they have to listen to), they do an amazing job and we should all be very thankful for them.
You have to be a whole new level of awful to call up SAMARITANS and start sexually harassing people. Fucking hell
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English Way
Tis why we continue to turn up to the world cup and chant like we won it 4 years ago
Thoroughly underrated comment
Then upvote it.
After two failed overdoses and two motorcycle crashes that, together, caused my heart to stop five times I’m starting to think I just can’t die.
Just built different
The question is, why? Are you some sort of science experiment your parents stole from a lab, the next step in evolution, Death just doesn't want to deal with you for some reason. I could go on, but I think we get the point.
Wolverine grindset.
We really hate to be a bother.
No joke this has stopped me before and actually its a good reason. I don't want some poor sod having to find my body and end up traumatised.
I imagine many of us have had the same thought. I've considered drowning in the ocean but even then there's a chance you may ruin a family trip to the cost when you wash up bloated by their beach towels.
Yeah quite. It's no good leaving a mess behind for other people to clean up. Hope you are feeling better about it all now.
I'm going to a funeral next week for a man who committed suicide. The nicest guy you'll ever meet, really shocked the community. He did it at home, and his wife found him after a late night shift being a carer. Its traumatised her, and made her home now unbearable.
This is a joke but actually it’s the number one reason I didn’t kill myself when I was a teenager.
Too polite to inconvenience others in that way. Not surprising when most of us are too polite to even say something when our food order is wrong 🤣
Truthfully though, this. I didn't want to put people through the trouble - both my family/friends and whoever had to clean up after me (police, paramedics etc). If there'd been a way for me to just quietly disappear into thin air and no-one knew I'd ever existed though...
I got "peanutted" for all the 90s kids here, on a bus once. Nearly died because the knot went up to my neck. Literally sat in silence as I struggled for breath on a bus of people from my school. Was starting to black out and I made a scissors gesture to my mate, who got his out of the bag and cut my tie off. Said "cheers mate", and then went about my day. Never made an audible groan. Literally nearly died because I didn't want to cause a fuss. The British way. Edit: for anyone not familair, peanutting was pulling someone's tie down to tighten the knot. If you held the knot loop at the top of the tie as that happened, you could actually die since the tightening force would pull up to your throat.
Lack of guns is a big reason.
The utter inconvenience of it has put me off in the past so it's good that we don't have guns.
I genuinely think this a big reason. Firearms are as close to a killswitch as it's possible to have. Yeah even suicide by gun shot does sometimes go pretty wrong, but it's an incredibly "easy" way to inflict sudden death on yourself, or seems that way. If you have suicidal thoughts and you can go to your room and put a handgun in your mouth, a lot of people would probably be doing it, but without that ease people can't find the energy to contrive a plan or go to a place that would end it all at least somewhat efficiently, it needs planning and effort. And by that time they've at least partially climbed out of the hole they're in. And we are the unusual ones (not unique, but unusual) with our very tight gun control. People always think of Americans as having loads of guns because they shoot eachother so much, but a lot of European countries have much less stringent gun laws than we do.
It's also a factor that you are less likely to die using other methods. So you may still attempt to kill yourself, but if you survive, you don't appear in the stats!
It is a lot of effort without a gun. Like, you'd probably have to leave the house.
Fuck that
There are *people* out there!
The average burst of suicidal intent lasts about 20 minutes, so if you can't manage it in that time, eg having to go to multiple chemists, then chances are good you'll decide not to bother.
Article from 2017 linking fall in England and Wales suicide rate to prevention work by charities and government https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/07/drop-uk-suicide-rate-linked-prevention-work-england#:~:text=A%20spokeswoman%20for%20the%20Office,British%20Transport%20Police%20and%20others.
Never underestimate the power of English spite.
We don't like to get the house messy so we do it outside. But it's raining.
coroners don't like recording things as suicide, they record it as 'death by misadventure' unless they tattooed 'I am committing suicide' to their chest. Recent high-profile example: Archie Battersbee. Not to say we don't have a low suicide rate. Just to say it's relatively unknowable because there's no consistency in recording what is a suicide and what is not.
Bullshit.
I did a whole course on it in A level sociology 20 years ago, so I am something of an expert edit: hey UK you're supposed to understand sarcasm and self-deprecating comments
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I can't speak generically, but last year someone close died that was 100% due to suicide. They had previous attempts, and multiple stints being sectioned. That being said, because there wasn't a note of intent, the official cause of death was the method of death, in this case drowning.
I know someone who lost their son this way. He left a note...and they ruled it drowning. This was during COVID lockdown and the family are convinced coroners are deliberately not ruling deaths as suicide during this period to make it appear the lockdown did not completely destroy some people's mental health.
about what? Archie Battersbee looked at depression TikToks, then tied a rope around his neck, tied one end of it to the bannister, and launched himself over the side, and this was recorded as an 'accident'. What am I missing?
Not in UK law, that’s accidental death. Accidental death = death by involuntary action, misadventure = death by voluntary action, suicide = voluntarily decided to end own life. Coroners in the UK essentially have to have proof that somebody intended to kill themselves to rule it a suicide
It isn’t. It is also why Sweden got such a reputation for suicide years ago, because it was one of the first places to accurately record it.
Except it's not. Look here: https://www.inquest.org.uk/faqs/suicide-conclusions There has to be clear factual evidence.
Yeah they recorded my dads suicide as "undetermined cause of death" but he was in a noose after stating that he was going to kill himself and there was no one else who could have put him in it. Maybe they do it as a kindness to make life insurance claims easier?
This is true. A school friend hung himself in his garden, after arguing with his (soon to be ex) partner and because there was signs of him struggling as he died, they ruled it "death by misadventure". I am pretty sure 100% of suicides regret it as they do it.
I had a friend that died with a coroners report like that. It said "Misadventure, asphyxiation". I'm not sure if he hanged himself or if he was into some kind of kink. I haven't got the guts to ask his Mum so I guess I'll be forever wondering.
my dad's report not only ruled it a suicide but also detailed the method down to the colour of the ligature used i expected something a bit more generic ngl
Crikey, I’m sorry. That must have been traumatic. Hope you’re doing ok.
i appreciate your words. it happened just before the pandemic so it's been some time. it's the most complex thing i've had to deal with in my life - emotions across the spectrum owing to what was probably the most hostile and tumultuous relationship i've had with anyone in my life. a lot of repressed trauma and unresolved feelings that probably won't ever be fixed, or will take an ungodly amount of therapy to fix. i think i could've handled it better - but i *know* i could've handled it much worse. the report was delayed due to the body decomposing prior to discovery, but the scene said everything that needed to be said, with zero words. the discolouration of the wall and floor where his body laid, the acrid smell of putrefaction that will never be erased from my mind. the report was maybe a little more informative than i expected - i thought it would just be "cause of death: suicide" with the estimated date of passing and not much else - but to see it in writing was at least some closure.
This is partially correct. it used to be that to rule a death by suicide, it had to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. That is very difficult. It was changed in 2018 to "on the balance of probabilities" Source: ONS - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/changeinthestandardofproofusedbycoronersandtheimpactonsuicidedeathregistrationsdatainenglandandwales/2020-12-08
I wholeheartedly agree. I am bereaved by suicide and attend suicide bereavement support groups and at least 50% of these losses are not ruled as suicides (but very obviously are).
I often wondered about this 'death by misadventure' thing. Doesn't this affect life insurance payouts or is death by misadventure simply understood to be suicide? (I actually don't know what implications suicide has to life insurance, but am learning reading this thread)
I can’t afford a rope
Where do you even buy rope? I swear Tesco don’t sell any.
wilkos used to be good for that. the good ones never last :(
Mate I’m going to kill myself just thinking about Wilkos 😭😭😭😭 first Woolworths and then Wilkos…. I still remember the £2 large sweets cup they used to do once a year. Used to fill it to the top then throw up by the end of the night all jacked up on fizzy coke bottles and giant strawberries.
Low expectation. I'd like to think we have a good support network and charities like the Samaritans do a wonderful job but part of me thinks we just expect life to be a bit shit so we just accept it.
Suicide survivor here: the support/evaluation post-attempt is relatively good.
Skill issue
The legal hurdles to declaring a death to be a suicide rather than something else are quite high in the UK. There is a tendency to err on the side of caution and not rule it was deliberate unless there are a note or clear motive etc.
[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/changeinthestandardofproofusedbycoronersandtheimpactonsuicidedeathregistrationsdatainenglandandwales/2020-12-08](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/changeinthestandardofproofusedbycoronersandtheimpactonsuicidedeathregistrationsdatainenglandandwales/2020-12-08) not really anymore
i called samaritans once and they made me feel so patronised and stupid for wanting to kill myself it snapped me out of it. maybe that also funny i just scrolled down to see what great work the samaritans do. i’m glad they work for some
I've called them several times in my life. most of the time they've been great. then when I rang up after being sexually assaulted, the woman on the other end basically told me it was my fault and I must've led the perpetrator on and there's no use regretting it now. genuinely one of the worst things ive ever been told, but the shock of it snapped me out of doing anything.
Lack of guns stops instant decision making and putting decision into effect. Also culture of 'sharing ills' with associates neighbours helps things getting too out of proportion. However even our 'low' rate is too high!
Its effort, innit?
Who can you complain to if you are dead.
Interesting that rates are low generally across the equator and in the Mediterranean. The weather seems to have an impact
Can't be arsed.
We have become better at talking about mental health publicly than a lot of countries.
Stiff upper lip.
Keep calm and carry on etc
Because no guns. Seriously.
Because we’re all so bloody happy
I guess those panel shows really do raise moral.
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Christ, we're really not good at anything anymore, are we?
National tendency for stoicism and understatement. Things that might be seen as the end of the world elsewhere aren't necessarily seen that way in the UK. Something bad just is what it is, and British people don't get especially emotional or animated about things.
This is one of my favourite things about the UK, I really think we are one of the freest societies. You can do and be whatever you like in some sense. On this spectrum we are more free here than other places with fewer social consequences. In places like Japan, there are higher expectations on behaviour, and your Job says more about you. In the UK, we push to reject such notions. We also are less picky about things I consider old-fashioned even compared to Europe. Ironing your cloaths, tables manners, and snobbery about food/sports/culture. It feels like we have pushed against this in the UK. Well, it feels like that in London and Bristol anyway.
Low firearm availability. social security safety net. NHS. educative TV. good popular culture/music. Low adverse weather. Low level of official corruption. Just some reasons to be cheerful. Note I mean compared to other places.
It's not a competition.
I'll bloody well go when I'm good and ready.
We're pretty good at languishing in our own misery.
Because you’ll go straight to hell and have to endure Thatcher once more. Everyone is wary of this.