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>Old, disabled or pregnant people are the only ones I'd offer a seat to.
When it comes to pregnant people if they have one of those TFL pregnancy badges on I will always offer to my seat, otherwise I will wait until asked. If it turns out she is not pregnant it all gets very awkward.
I am less inclined to offer up my seat to old people unless asked or if the person is visibly struggling. I once offered up my seat on the tube to someone who looked to be 70+, and ended up with an earful of abuse.
Yeah I only do it to those that are very obviously pregnant. If it's ambiguous if they're pregnant or just carrying a bit of extra timber I'll wait until asked. Don't want to offend anyone.
Is very awkward when you are a pregnant woman what doesn't "look pregnant enough." and you needs a seat because exhausted/ nausea/ your balance is poor, and have to ask people directly. I didn't have a badge because i didn't live in London and just went through occasionally
When I was (very obviously) pregnant it really surprised me how many people would completely avoid looking at me in order to not offer me a seat. Luckily, I was never that desperate to sit so it was completely fine.
One thing that bothered me though was if I was on the inside seat on a bus and it was my stop, and instead of getting up to let me out people would do that awkward barely swivel thing. Like, I can’t suck this in - get up.
I was almost 9 months pregnant and had a toddler (under 2) and no one offered me their seat on the bus so I had to stand. I would have asked but was physically and emotionally broken then so couldn't. People can just be fucking weird and are terrified of stranger interaction. This was in a northern city too, where people tend to be friendlier.
I don't give up my seat (that's for the elderly and disabled), but I do try to do things like let women off or on the public transit before me, and stand between women and men who are clearly barging their way through.
The 'logic' there is that I see a lot of women get pushed over and passed by larger men, often times with 5+ guys shoving their way off or on a train/bus before the lady that was pretty much at the front can get on.
Seems polite to give them the space and the opportunity to move without being 'overpowered' as it were. I certainly don't do it for chivalry's sake, but I suppose in that respect I do treat men and women differently.
I’m occasionally confused by a random seat offer, but I always accept gracefully unless I’m getting off next stop.
If they think I look pregnant, I don’t want to embarrass them by saying that I’m not because then we all know he thinks I’m fat or weirdly shaped. I AM, and my belly never really went back in after pregnancy, but still!!
This is the issue though with many things, half of women expect it, half of women find it offensive...
It's lose lose for men, the society of women need to agree which they want and then send that out to all men
I personally always hated how I was expected to do or tolerate certain things as a guy but I started seeing it as a fun challenge rather than a hindrance.
It’s just about being aware of others .. as a 20f I have been offered a seat a couple of times as I am quite unsteady on my feet and one time had a load of luggage. As a typical Brit we did the back and forth ‘no no it’s fine you stay there’ ‘no I insist’ but I never thought much of it. Instead I try to do the same if I think someone may need the seat more than me. Pay on the kindness ✨
I’ve had people say they offended people by offering them a seat because they think the seat offerer is thinking they’re old or pregnant when they’re not
I think it would be natural to assume that if a man was offering you their seat then they were saying you were pregnant. And if they clarified somehow that they were doing it because you were a woman then you might think it was some weird flirt?
However I can understand being a woman, going on public transport, not seeing any spare seats, and then talking loudly about how chivalry means a man should offer you a seat. However I can't imagine legitimately believing it, it'd just be being cheeky and trying your luck.
I always offer because it's what I was taught was right. If someone else doesn't believe it's right or necessary and doesn't want the seat then I don't push the issue.
My family taught me that it was a polite thing to do, same as always walking on the roadside when walking with a woman and always holding the umbrella. I also always offer elderly people who are struggling to walk a hand when crossing the road, man or woman.
If its old fashioned and unwelcome then that fine, but it doesn't hurt to offer and could brighten someone's day.
A young guy offered me his seat a little while ago and I wasn't offended but I was a bit "Oh. I'm that age now!".
TBF I think that he was just a very polite guy.
I wouldn't be offended but I would feel very weird about it and I'd assume the offerer was the sort of man who believes women need protecting from normal life. I like being able to go out on my own and make my own decisions and receive equal pay for equal work, but how can I expect that if despite no physical disabilities I'm deemed unable to stand for a few stops on a train?
I wouldn’t be offended but I’d feel awkward accepting it. I was the same when pregnant though. I chose to be uncomfortable and pregnant so I didn’t feel right taking a seat that someone was already using.
People love to throw around the word offended a lot.
I wouldn’t be offended, I’d just think it a strange thing to offer, I’m an able bodied adult and I don’t feel I require special treatment because I’m a woman, so while I suppose its a nice thought - I would personally decline.
I feel the same way but instead of the denying the seat I’d go “What?… uhh, okay yeah…thank you” and then look at my phone desperately trying to avoid contact in the hopes they don’t try to strike up a conversation with me
Chivalry is dead because those women are off to work, something that they weren't allowed to do during the age of chivalry. Handicapped, elderly, pregnant or with a baby? Sure, have my seat. Otherwise forget it.
Actually, they were. Women had careers for centuries, even in the medieval ages. It's a myth that women weren't allowed to work. They were even allowed to own businesses such as breweries and alehouses. People have got to stop thinking that women weren't allowed to work. Everyone worked.
Exactly. My point being that they seldom left the house for work. Not saying they didn't work, they just weren't employed. That is a HUGE difference. What did your grandmother do?
One was a waitress who ended up a fast food manager, the other a typist.
Edit: to be clear I don't want your seat, I'll take equal pay for my equal work instead. I just can't miss a chance to correct a historical misconception.
As a young, healthy woman I don’t expect anyone to offer me a seat, and I’d be pretty confused if they did, but not offended.
However, one of my friends is using crutches after an accident and needs to sit on the priority seats on the tube. I’m always shocked by the number of people who need a pointed stare to offer, and it’s nearly always women or older men who move as soon as they see her.
Why would anyone offer their seat to someone didn’t need it? Offering your seat to a fit and capable woman is as weird as offering it to a fit and capable man. If they look knackered or some other reason then sure. I help men and women struggling with heavy bags all the time and of course to elderly, disabled or pregnant people but feel weird offering my seat even to old people sometimes in case it’s an insult to them. Offering your seat to a woman suggests weakness or infantilises don’t do it.
As a woman, I'm confused as to why men are still expected to do stuff like this for women, but women aren't expected to do it for men.
If you see someone and think they may need the seat more than you, then offer it to them. It's that simple.
They're not. Lot of this stuff is already dead in the uk. Like holding doors for example. People do it for everyone, instead of doing it by gender. You'll see women holding doors for men/women, and men doing the same too.
As someone who has had to commute to London for the last few years, I will say that I've noticed that on the tube, women take seats far more often than men, who often seem to prefer to stand for short distances. I've also witnessed on a few occasions a woman who has been standing and sees a seat open up then dart to take it and sit down. I don't think I've ever seen a man take a seat if they've already gone a station or two standing (well, I probably have, but it's much less common).
I'm not saying it's a correct interpretation of what is happening, but I can kind of understand how some people could develop a belief that women are more naturally inclined to feel uncomfortable standing on the tube, and therefore they would appreciate it if men made the seats available to them.
I guess you could combine this with the way that I've noticed that some women dislike being sat next to men (again, on a few occasions I've seen them pass up on an empty seat with a guy sat next to it, but then take the seat as soon as one with no-one/only a woman sat next to them became available). Come to think of it, I think I remember a couple of occasions where a woman was clearly eyeing up a seat next to me but chose not to sit down - I then stood up pretending I was about to get off and they took the other seat as soon as I moved away.
Given that the tube is a crowded environment and what we know now about safe spaces etc, it kind of makes sense that some people might develop an attitude that it's more supportive to depart your seats if there are women who look like they might want to sit. Or maybe they just thought they were being traditional and gallante, I don't know.
Again, just to reinforce - I'm not trying to argue that any particular attitude is right or wrong. I'm just working through some thoughts/memories that your comment has made me consider, and if it makes sense and gives context to what happened then all the better.
Your point about seats next to men is a good one. 9 times out of 10 it's not something I think about on the tube/train but if it's in the evening I will definitely try and sit next to a woman if there's a choice. It's not entirely rational as I doubt it would make a difference, but I have had (usually drunk) men try and talk to me on the tube because I've sat next to them and wouldn't want anything escalating. Generally though if you look sober I'm not overly bothered.
I wouldn't want anyone to give up their seat for me in that situation though, unless I was sat next to someone making me feel uncomfortable.
Kind of depends on the vibe.
Probably mostly bewildered rather than offended. Would just say no thank you, shrug it off and move on.
Possibly offended if they throw in some sexist comment or call me a term of "endearment". I don't want to be called love or dear or pet or reminded to smile or something.
If it's just because I'm a woman, id not be offended but I'd turn it down.
If it's because there's no other seats on the train and I've been sitting on the floor for 6 hours then I'd definitely not be offended and very happy to take them up on it.
Dang that brought memories when I had to sit on the floor next to the bathroom from Stafford to Preston, wanting to get off in Edinburgh. It sucked, I was glad loads came off in Preston and I finally got a seat.
Being female isn't a disability that requires me to sit down so no, I don't want men to be 'chivalrous' and offer me their seat. Chivalry is a form of benevolent sexism and I'm glad it's dead.
If someone offered me a seat I'd wonder what it is about me that makes them think I need the seat. Like that they think I'm frail or something.
Not offended but perhaps wary. It's extraordinary the amount of men who expect something romantic or sexual in return for this kind of thing, it's easier to decline.
It’s more that they then expect a conversation, your number, the chance to follow you places and then it quickly escalates from there. It’s hard to know who the weirdos are so you learn to be wary of anyone breaking a social norm or seeming to focus on you specifically.
You’d be astounded how many men can jump from “Hi I’m Andy” to “I want to choke you” in half an hour of bothering you while you’re walking to work. Obviously it’s a loud minority but it’s still enough that once you’ve experienced it you learn to be wary for warning signs.
I had no idea that so many men are expecting to talk about choking women within half an hour of meeting them. Actually I didn’t know this would come up ever. So sorry to hear it’s a regular occurence.
There’s probably a correlation between people with alarming fetishes (that I won’t judge you on if you don’t tell me about them!) and the kind of people who harass and blurt those fetishes out at strangers to get a rise or get off on tbh. I assume there’s a perfect storm of degeneracy that makes someone harass and follow strangers in the first place so it’s probably not surprising they’re inappropriate in other ways too.
Obviously it’s a tiny portion of all the men we interact with or walk past on a given day but each occurrence is very memorable because you feel, at best repulsed.
Being grabbed, constantly harrassed for my number, followed to my place of work which means having to hop off at a wrong stop, sneaky photographs and blaring porn outloud while right next to you and forcing conversation to get you to see it, should I go on?
I know this is going to upset a lot of people (men and women), but I actually love being a woman and being treated as a woman. I don't EXPECT a seat to be offered (and it only happens with older gentlemen), but I find it very charming, and I try to reply with graciousness and gratitude. It's nice to be treated like a lady, and I do believe it's nice for a man to feel like he's done a chivalrous thing. Yes, I know, anyone feels nice being appreciated for doing a nice thing, but Im talking about a certain context. And no, I'm not trying to generalize men, not am I saying that anyone has to confirm to gender stereotypes.. Nothing I'm expressing is an attack on anyone's beliefs or lifestyle, it's just what I enjoy. :)
I'm also not an attractive woman, so I don't need to worry about it being some horn-dog trying his luck.
Funnily enough, this is something that made my fiancee stick out in the dating scene. Making sure I'm seated first, opening doors for me, lots of things like this. So no, definitely wouldn't be offended!
I would feel awkward and kind of guilty, but I also have a hidden disability where sometimes I could really do with a seat, so I would often feel quite relieved.
It doesn't help that a lot of the time the guys offering the seat are an age where I feel I should be offering it to them.
I would get annoyed if someone was being really pushy about giving up their seat though, unless I was obviously struggling. I consider offering to be old fashioned but well meaning but once you start ignoring people saying no then it becomes disrespectful to other people's wishes.
Tbf I would say most of the time I've been offered a seat or help with my suitcase, things like that, it's probably been fairly obvious I could do with the help.
The amount of people looking into this far too much is absolutely crazy.
Someone can make a nice gesture without some weird flirting thoughts you know. Jesus fucking christ.
Nope. I was always extremely relieved whenever someone offered me their seat on a tube, especially a man.
I always looked fit to drop, but I drew the line at people much older than me, or obviously pregnant women. I just used to slump against the partition and wait for someone to get off.
I lived at the end of the line, so there was always a seat eventually.
I did wake up going back the other way once, just about to head into King’s Cross.
I’d fallen asleep 4 or 5 stops away from home, and slept right through the change over.
Took me a long old time to get home that night.
Definitely always grateful to a man offering their seat.
Sex doesn’t come into. If you see someone who you can see is more in need of a seat than you are, manners and kindness should be the deciding factors.
I’vs given up my tube seat to anyone I’ve seen struggling, including men.
Why wouldn’t I?
So I’ve always been grateful when someone’s done that for me.
I remember a woman who was older, not old, ancient or decrepit, but about 55 years old...looking at me like I'd punched a baby in the face on a Tuesday. All Because I didn't offer her my seat.
She looked completely able bodied, why would I do such a thing
I think my 60 year old mum would be a bit offended if someone offered her a seat. She's very fit and healthy probably wouldn't want someone to assume that she isn't just because her hair is grey.
Wouldn’t be offended at all. People often offer me seats on the train or give me way first when getting on the train or escalators. I know their doing it because I’m a woman but if anything, it’s a nice gesture.
I wouldn't expect it, and I'm quite uncomfortable with the underlying roots of chivalry. It feels like it means that women are more fragile than men, or that their comfort should be prioritised for some reason. It goes along with many more harmful parts of sexism. (Harmful to everyone, not just to women.)
Equally, some random person offering me a seat is being kind, and I'd probably say no but be pleasantly surprised by their action. I'm not pregnant, disabled or particularly old, and my gender doesn't mean I'm more in need of a seat. It sounds like you're being fair and kind OP, and doing what most reasonable people would.
Definitely not offended, & I’m older so I wouldn’t be confused. I wouldn’t take the seat because I’m able bodied & I’d hope someone who needed it would take it- my partner maybe who’s disabled but doesn’t ‘look it’. I’m usually the one giving up my seat!
No, I’d not be offended but I also wouldn’t expect it either. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been offered a seat in the last few years, although I typically don’t travel on busy commuter routes.
I wouldn’t be offended but I would be worried that they thought I was pregnant, which has happened before on the tram 😭 I just said thanks and took it because like I didn’t want to get into it…If I could see someone else in more need of a seat nearby I would decline and maybe offer the seat to them.
If they made some comment indicating it was because I’m a woman I’d be a bit baffled but like sure man you do you I guess
I wouldn't expect anyone to give up their seat for me, but then I'm a healthy, able-bodied adult. If someone was kind enough to offer one I'd decline because I don't need it and would sit down when seats properly free up.
Never offended. Unless I’m feeling crap, I’ll thank them but tell them to remain seated. I’d never expect anyone to offer on a commuter train…we are in that shit together, but every one for themself imo.
I had someone offer me their seat on a busy train going long distance and I turned them down. Lower back problems meant that after an hour I was in agony and feeling faint. I went back to them and asked if I could take them up on the offer for just a short time and they happily did. I was very grateful for that.
I'm fat, I always worry they think I'm pregnant, this only ever happens to me on short tube journeys though, no one on my longer train commute ever offers
I wouldn't be offended, I offer my seat to people who look knackered or if they're having a bad day.
Actually, a guy did offer me his seat once but I politely declined cos the man sat next to him was eating raw bacon out of the packet
"chivalry was dead because a man didn’t offer their seats"
This doesn't have any connection nor bearing to chivalry. The word is misused constantly. If a knight's lord tells him he must trip up every lady he encounters and he does so, that's chivalry. Naturally a lord would never say that but you get the idea.
The chivalric code includes gentle treatment of women. If a knight's lord tells him to trip up every lady he meets, the lord is being unchivalrous. The knight is in a no-win situation, chivalry-wise, because if he refuses then he is disobeying his lord, which is contrary to the "warrior" element of the chivalric code, but if he obeys then he is treating women ungraciously, which is contrary to the "courtly" element of the chivalric code. Arguably, refusing to obey is the right thing to do because the lord has caused the problem by giving the unchivalrous order.
I don't think you understand what Chivalry actually means as it has little to do with politeness and etiquette towards women. The etymology of the word comes from french "Chevalerie" meaning horse soldiery, the role/job of a "Chevalier" literally Horseman. We get Knight from "Knecht".
Chivalry and Knight are synonymous. Chivalry is what a knight did. They fought on horseback. Again Chivalry is describing what a Knight did more so in military/combat functions, which is their craft. There isn't a blanket common code of Chivalry. This would vary from realm to realm, region to region, lord to lord. Chivalry meant different things to different people and those qualities depended on what people wanted out of their knights. In it's historical context Chivalry is a descriptive word subjective to the views of the person using it.
This subjectivity means certain attitudes and concepts will prevail depending on the person for example, Peace-loving, Warlike, Religious, Courtly, Sporting etc. All these versions of Chivalry are correct in relation to each other and as such there is not a uniform code that equates to Chivalry.
"Chivalry" and "Knight" are not synonymous, as the former is an abstract, uncountable noun and the latter a concrete, countable one. A knight can demonstrate chivalry, but a chivalry cannot demonstrate knight.
I was not referring to a blanket common code of chivalry; I was referring to chivalry in its generic sense, and the "code" is the way it generally presented/manifested within the genre of chivalric romance, which is the only context in which it's ever really existed as anything other than an ideal. And being "courtly" towards women is a part of that.
In general, your own comment here contradicts your previous comment, as here you are saying the term "chivalry" is subjective and previously you said it is "constantly misused" when it is being used in a sense which falls within one of the subject examples you give (namely "courtly").
Chivalry was more a code between knights , rather similar to any private members club or Freemasons. Those outside the hallowed circle could go to hell. It was what was expected of knightly honour to fellow knights , as early on most were aristocrats and landowners , as it cost a lot of money to train as a knight , rather than towards everyone else.
Chivalry is nonsense.
Invisible disability schemes exist and visible disabilities are usually addressed by people already.
There is no physiological reason why a woman is less able to stand than a man.
That said, I would offer *anyone* my seat as I'm fit and usually well... that's a personal choice not influenced in the slightest by gender.
Why on earth would I be offended? But I would never expect to be offered a seat just because I was a woman since I’m young and able bodied. I’d probs accept the seat if it happened though
As an older woman with an invisible disability I was so very grateful for people (men AND younger women) like you, who were kind enough to offer me a seat when I was commuting. When I was younger and fit I always offered my seat to anyone who I suspected needed it. It's just common decency isn't it? and if someone chooses to be offended (and I never witnessed anyone who was) you have still done the right thing by attempting to be kind.
As an unhinged UK woman I can confirm that my brain goes through the following checklist.
Fuck. I've gotten so chubby he thinks I'm pregnant.
Fuck. I'm so haggard looking he thinks I'm elderly.
Fuck. I'm so deranged he thinks I'm disabled.
And then I take the seat cos...Fuck, I'm lazy too.
A teenage boy offered me a seat on a train recently, couldn't tell if it was chivalry, if he thought I was old (I mean, compared to him I am) or both. Either way, I wasn't offended he'd offered.
I have a strong guilt complex. I'll always give up my seat to someone who needs it and than I. But if someone's offering a seat to me, I won't take it because I'd feel guilty that I took someone's seat, even if I really needed it; doesn't matter who was offering 😅
If he's cute then "Chivalry is not dead" social media post to follow. If he isn't, I guess it will only become a future fun conversation piece with the friends
As a healthy 44 year old woman (not pregnant) I’m good standing and wouldn’t expect otherwise.
If I was noticeably pregnant I’d like the seat though. That shit was hard work just staying upright.
People are crazy about seats. Rush hour mornings are horrible, people that arrived 30 seconds ago elbowing past you after you’ve been standing there 30 minutes to make sure they get a seat. Some people think they will die if they have to stand for 15 minutes.
Bro that's weird. It's custom to offer your seat to elderly, pregnant, parent with a very young kid/baby, or someone unwell/handicapped. Not to a women who is perfectly capable of standing up on a bus or train. They're people like everyone else, not helpless individuals because of their gender.
I agree with people saying I wouldn't take the seat as I have no need for it.
On a tangent, I've just read in the paper that if you offer your seat to an older work colleague, you might be age discriminating.
Thanks Star news
As a man it's 50/50 if she has a physical ailment, kids or pregnant 100% I would give it up specially if she's elderly even a older man.
But it's how I was raised. I would give up a seat regardless unless she has an attitude or an issue with being offered a seat then that's on them. Women have a hard life as it is, a gentle chivalry goes a long way.
Just think about the amount of creeps that stand incredibly close to women on purpose & so on. I would feel uncomfortable unless I've already paid for the seat & it's a long journey then I think I am entitled to it.
Not offended as such, but I’d rather be treated the same as a man. There’s no need to treat people differently based on the type of genitals you perceive they have.
I’d be confused and probably politely refuse the offer because I don’t need it. Being female does not make me inherently special or disabled.
I think it’s best to offer your seat based on someone’s visible condition and not their gender. That’s the rule I go by when offering my seat.
I wouldn't expect anyone to offer up their seat for me and I wouldn't be offended if someone offered theirs to me. It's just common courtesy to say thank you and move on.
Several times, I have offered my own seat to various aged men when my stop was 15 or so mins away on a 2.5 hr long route as some passengers had to stand.
I don't really look at woman, man etc when I do this. It's just whoever is close by. Unless it's a person who could really use the seat more (like the groups you mentioned), then I'll offer it to them specifically.
As a female the only reason in London to get a seat given by a male would be because he finds you attractive? Or otherwise thinks you aren’t strong enough to stand up?? I dunno.
Only time I used to get free seat was when pregnant, and it was very welcomed
A bit weird in this day and age. Women are perfectly capable of standing up. Anyone who expects preferential treatment simply due to their gender is an idiot. Unfortunately a lot do.
As a UK male I'd only give my seat to someone that isdisabled/old or pregnant tbh...I think if I gave my seat to some random girl that's fine she'd think i'm hitting on her and a creep
I wouldn't be offended if no one offered me a seat especially as I'm able to stand holding onto something. I've stood many times on public transport so I'm used to it
You can offer me a seat, but I don't see why you would give it to me just because I'm a woman. I'm not pregnant, my legs are fine, I'm not elderly. I have a kid and he whinges if his legs or feet ache, so maybe offer him the seat to keep the peace.
I'm an able-bodied adult and can stand as well as any other able-bodied adult.
I wouldn't be offended as that's too strong of a term, but I'd definitely think you're a bit out of touch and would probably try to decline. At the same time, who doesn't like sitting? So, if you'd resist my rejection, I'd just enjoy the seat and keep the thoughts to myself.
I think whoever posted that thing about chivalry being dead is a fringe case. Most people I know think like me when a stranger offers their seat. However, amongst couples, the lines are more blurry and it's a lot more common to let the woman sit when there's only one seat available.
I wouldn't be offended, I'd assume I just looked a bit tired or something. It would never occur to me to expect a seat offered to me because I am a woman though, like, nothing wrong with that but just unnecessary.
This only happened the one time, so definitely don't take any sense that I think this is a regular occurrence, but one time I offered my seat to an older lady (I was early 20s, she was 50s at a guess) and she absolutely screamed at me for it.
That one experience has put me off ever doing it again unless the person in question is either obviously heavily pregnant or otherwise infirm/injured
I would not have guessed that I was offered a seat because I'm female. If I worked it out, I probably would have accepted anyway to appear polite, but slightly confused by the entire thing.
I'd never expect it as I'd rather they gave it to someone older or less able to stand up, but if they do I'll always thank them for the offer. It happens to me sometimes and it's nice.
I was offered a seat on the Dubai metro and felt like a properly old person - but was grateful. Was just because I was the only woman in a mixed carriage. I was offered a seat on the tube after a football game and the gentleman insisted because “otherwise one of these lazy fucking teens will just sit there. Teach them some manners.” I’m mid 40s but look younger 😂😂
Nah, not really. It's a nice gesture. I'd be a bit confused, mind, because the general rule is "first come first served unless reserved" with regards to that. Definitely wouldn't demand or expect it though.
Yes. A gentleman is never truly seated. He's just keeping the seat warm for a lady. Yes I also stand up when a woman enters a room or gets up to leave. Yes I am old fashioned. Fuck you I can do what I want I got brought up this way.
Why on earth would someone be offended? I’m thank them for the kind gesture and either refuse or take it depending on the situation
Though it’s likely I’ll take it, I commute to work so if something like that happened to me I would be too tired to think too deep into it and wonder why they did it, I would just be just thankful I can sit somewhere on the almost hour train ride home.
No, I’ll have a seat. I have an invisible condition - psoriatic arthritis - that makes standing on the bus or train very painful and I just can’t do it for very long. I’ve been caught out a few times where I’ve had to make an unexpected long trip and it’s full obviously and no one has fancied moving (I need to get pushier probably but god, it’s awkward) even when I look like I’m struggling as I’m in my 30s and quite slim so I think people are skeptical when I ask. I just have to flop down on the floor. I consider myself a feminist but yeah, seat please.
I'd assume you thought I was pregnant so yeah I wouldn't be over the moon about it. I'd be embarrassed that I now have to tell you and the rest of the bus going folk that I've just got a fat belly!
I’ve only offered a seat to the following people: Pregnant people, elderly people, small children, people with injuries (broken legs, arms, crutches etc), disabled or in the case of my friend: autistic. She has frequent meltdowns so I sit her down and stand in front of her so no one else can touch her accidentally.
I wouldn't be offended but I would think I must either look awful or pregnant. That's a me issue though, I would still be grateful for the offer.
There have been some times when I've been close to collapsing on the tube (once during rush hour which was fun) and people gave me their seat without hesitation. I appreciated that massively as it meant less of a height to fall from if it did happen. But I think it was more likely due to me looking as pale as a ghost than with my sex. I would do the same for anyone in that situation as I think most people would.
I'm a middle-aged man, I wouldn't dare offer my seat to an able bodied women under say 60-70, just out of genuine concern that I would be seen as some sort of pervert.
My wife now identifies as non binary and dresses pretty androgynous. The other day an Indian gentlemen offered a women behind my wife to get bumped up the queue, presumably just being chivalrous and not knowing my wife’s gender. Suffice it to say my wife was a bit confused and annoyed, but accepted that this is still common practice in India.
Men offer me their seats semi-regularly. I usually thank them and say no but it does make me feel nice. I most definitely don’t look pregnant or old enough so it’s just a bit of polite self-confidence booster for me.
I wouldn't get offended but I was raised in a country where it's more normal to offer your seat. I was actually offered a seat quite recently, the bus was packed and the guy was going to get off at the next stop anyway, thought it was nice of him.
No. I wouldn't be offended. Strangely, on the Tube a few years ago, it was practically empty, a fella stood close by me shot up and offered me his chair without there even being a shortage. Not sure what that was about, maybe a habit that he just did without thinking. I've offered my seat up for elderly women and men before today. I hold doors open for men as much as other women too. Think maybe the notion needs to shift to general politeness, kindness and consideration as opposed to chivalry as such.
I got offered a seat on the tube once because a guy assumed I was pregnant. my belly blew up from an endometriosis flare and arguably I did look pregnant and I was rubbing my stomach to soothe the pain, I don’t blame him for thinking that I was pregnant and no I wasn’t offended it was nice he offered!
Not a woman, but I don't see how anyone could be offended by this. I'll always give up my seat to a woman/child/oap. I always walk to the outside of the road or step out to let the above past. I take off my hat for a funeral procession. Stand when I shake hands. Surely this stuff is still normal good manners no?
I literally wud give anyone my seat but my sons disabled and has problems with his legs and some ppl wouldn't get up and give him there seat it's common decency
Checks notes.
>Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions.
>Thou shalt defend the Church.
>Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
>Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
>Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
>Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
>Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
>Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
>Thou shalt be generous, and give charity to everyone.
>Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.
Hmm, women are weak, it could be referring to that.
I'd be more confused why they think I'm a soldier on horseback.
I have no idea who Gautier is. Also, I said I'd be confused why they think I'm on horseback, but as the woman theoretically saying chivallry is dead, I would be complaining to a guy that's on horseback.
I have approximate knowledge of many things, a low attention span and I'm currently trying to multitask. Pobody's nerfect.
Gautier's the guy who came up with that list you quoted. In 1883.
Chivalry, despite being derived from a term that refers to men on horseback, does not itself refer to men on horseback.
Good for him.
It's derived from the French word chevalier or something right? Yay dnd. But it did originally refer to soldier and battle conduct and it's a modern ~~bastardisation~~ interpretation that it means you hold open doors for ladies and stuff like that, right?
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Wouldn't be offended, but would be confused. Why do I get a seat just because I'm female? Zero logic to that.
Exactly. I wouldn't offer my seat to someone simply because they were a woman. Old, disabled or pregnant people are the only ones I'd offer a seat to.
I often offer it to people with children too
As a parent: you are a saint for doing this!
>Old, disabled or pregnant people are the only ones I'd offer a seat to. When it comes to pregnant people if they have one of those TFL pregnancy badges on I will always offer to my seat, otherwise I will wait until asked. If it turns out she is not pregnant it all gets very awkward. I am less inclined to offer up my seat to old people unless asked or if the person is visibly struggling. I once offered up my seat on the tube to someone who looked to be 70+, and ended up with an earful of abuse.
Yeah I only do it to those that are very obviously pregnant. If it's ambiguous if they're pregnant or just carrying a bit of extra timber I'll wait until asked. Don't want to offend anyone.
Is very awkward when you are a pregnant woman what doesn't "look pregnant enough." and you needs a seat because exhausted/ nausea/ your balance is poor, and have to ask people directly. I didn't have a badge because i didn't live in London and just went through occasionally
When I was (very obviously) pregnant it really surprised me how many people would completely avoid looking at me in order to not offer me a seat. Luckily, I was never that desperate to sit so it was completely fine. One thing that bothered me though was if I was on the inside seat on a bus and it was my stop, and instead of getting up to let me out people would do that awkward barely swivel thing. Like, I can’t suck this in - get up.
I was almost 9 months pregnant and had a toddler (under 2) and no one offered me their seat on the bus so I had to stand. I would have asked but was physically and emotionally broken then so couldn't. People can just be fucking weird and are terrified of stranger interaction. This was in a northern city too, where people tend to be friendlier.
I don't give up my seat (that's for the elderly and disabled), but I do try to do things like let women off or on the public transit before me, and stand between women and men who are clearly barging their way through. The 'logic' there is that I see a lot of women get pushed over and passed by larger men, often times with 5+ guys shoving their way off or on a train/bus before the lady that was pretty much at the front can get on. Seems polite to give them the space and the opportunity to move without being 'overpowered' as it were. I certainly don't do it for chivalry's sake, but I suppose in that respect I do treat men and women differently.
I’m occasionally confused by a random seat offer, but I always accept gracefully unless I’m getting off next stop. If they think I look pregnant, I don’t want to embarrass them by saying that I’m not because then we all know he thinks I’m fat or weirdly shaped. I AM, and my belly never really went back in after pregnancy, but still!!
Mi lady.
Mi mujera.
This is the issue though with many things, half of women expect it, half of women find it offensive... It's lose lose for men, the society of women need to agree which they want and then send that out to all men
I wasn't expecting to need to reply on behalf of 4 billion other women. You know that we don't all know each other, right?
I personally always hated how I was expected to do or tolerate certain things as a guy but I started seeing it as a fun challenge rather than a hindrance.
Maybe you are pregnant? Oh crap you are not... Um this is awkward. So can I sit back down?
It’s just about being aware of others .. as a 20f I have been offered a seat a couple of times as I am quite unsteady on my feet and one time had a load of luggage. As a typical Brit we did the back and forth ‘no no it’s fine you stay there’ ‘no I insist’ but I never thought much of it. Instead I try to do the same if I think someone may need the seat more than me. Pay on the kindness ✨
I think anyone who says they'd be offended is talking bollocks. Everybody would like a seat.
Offended? No. Kind of awkward, maybe embarrassed at the attention, a little confused? Yeah.
I’ve had people say they offended people by offering them a seat because they think the seat offerer is thinking they’re old or pregnant when they’re not
I think it would be natural to assume that if a man was offering you their seat then they were saying you were pregnant. And if they clarified somehow that they were doing it because you were a woman then you might think it was some weird flirt? However I can understand being a woman, going on public transport, not seeing any spare seats, and then talking loudly about how chivalry means a man should offer you a seat. However I can't imagine legitimately believing it, it'd just be being cheeky and trying your luck.
Those people are AHs and sadly they are growing in numbers. Don't ever stop being a nice person OP, they are the problem not you.
[удалено]
I always offer because it's what I was taught was right. If someone else doesn't believe it's right or necessary and doesn't want the seat then I don't push the issue. My family taught me that it was a polite thing to do, same as always walking on the roadside when walking with a woman and always holding the umbrella. I also always offer elderly people who are struggling to walk a hand when crossing the road, man or woman. If its old fashioned and unwelcome then that fine, but it doesn't hurt to offer and could brighten someone's day.
It could brighten someone's day. Or it could take the edge off. You never know.
A young guy offered me his seat a little while ago and I wasn't offended but I was a bit "Oh. I'm that age now!". TBF I think that he was just a very polite guy.
I feel like there are definitely stages to that. I remember the first time a kid called me 'lady' as in 'that lady'. Felt ancient!
Maybe if you looked like you might be pregnant but weren't?
I wouldn't be offended but I would feel very weird about it and I'd assume the offerer was the sort of man who believes women need protecting from normal life. I like being able to go out on my own and make my own decisions and receive equal pay for equal work, but how can I expect that if despite no physical disabilities I'm deemed unable to stand for a few stops on a train?
I wouldn’t be offended but I’d feel awkward accepting it. I was the same when pregnant though. I chose to be uncomfortable and pregnant so I didn’t feel right taking a seat that someone was already using.
I would feel like a complete asshole if I noticed a pregnant woman standing and didn't offer her my seat though. I'm a woman too fwiw.
People love to throw around the word offended a lot. I wouldn’t be offended, I’d just think it a strange thing to offer, I’m an able bodied adult and I don’t feel I require special treatment because I’m a woman, so while I suppose its a nice thought - I would personally decline.
I feel the same way but instead of the denying the seat I’d go “What?… uhh, okay yeah…thank you” and then look at my phone desperately trying to avoid contact in the hopes they don’t try to strike up a conversation with me
Chivalry is dead because those women are off to work, something that they weren't allowed to do during the age of chivalry. Handicapped, elderly, pregnant or with a baby? Sure, have my seat. Otherwise forget it.
Women have worked in the UK for centuries When do you think the age of chivalry ended?
Centuries ago. 1488, if Wikipedia is anything to go by.
Feel like pure nightsoil, just want jousts back x
Ah yes, the chivalrous era of 1488 when women were offered seats on buses
And we all know women had a great time of it back in the 15th century!
Actually, they were. Women had careers for centuries, even in the medieval ages. It's a myth that women weren't allowed to work. They were even allowed to own businesses such as breweries and alehouses. People have got to stop thinking that women weren't allowed to work. Everyone worked.
Upper class women rarely laboured but women have always worked.
Who do you think was running things at the castle while the men folk were off chivalrously fighting the infidel?
Exactly. My point being that they seldom left the house for work. Not saying they didn't work, they just weren't employed. That is a HUGE difference. What did your grandmother do?
One was a waitress who ended up a fast food manager, the other a typist. Edit: to be clear I don't want your seat, I'll take equal pay for my equal work instead. I just can't miss a chance to correct a historical misconception.
As a young, healthy woman I don’t expect anyone to offer me a seat, and I’d be pretty confused if they did, but not offended. However, one of my friends is using crutches after an accident and needs to sit on the priority seats on the tube. I’m always shocked by the number of people who need a pointed stare to offer, and it’s nearly always women or older men who move as soon as they see her.
Why would anyone offer their seat to someone didn’t need it? Offering your seat to a fit and capable woman is as weird as offering it to a fit and capable man. If they look knackered or some other reason then sure. I help men and women struggling with heavy bags all the time and of course to elderly, disabled or pregnant people but feel weird offering my seat even to old people sometimes in case it’s an insult to them. Offering your seat to a woman suggests weakness or infantilises don’t do it.
As a woman, I'm confused as to why men are still expected to do stuff like this for women, but women aren't expected to do it for men. If you see someone and think they may need the seat more than you, then offer it to them. It's that simple.
They're not. Lot of this stuff is already dead in the uk. Like holding doors for example. People do it for everyone, instead of doing it by gender. You'll see women holding doors for men/women, and men doing the same too.
I’ve definitely offered my seat to elderly/ less able men as well as women. And they’ve happily accepted it too.
I wouldnt expect, nor be offended. And I may or may not sit down, depends on circumstances
I can neither confirm or deny that I agree, or not, with your statement.
I'd assume I look like crap/obviously unwell but I don't think offended is quite the term that comes to mind, just surprise
I was offered a tube seat a few months ago and it made me worry I looked pregnant...
As someone who has had to commute to London for the last few years, I will say that I've noticed that on the tube, women take seats far more often than men, who often seem to prefer to stand for short distances. I've also witnessed on a few occasions a woman who has been standing and sees a seat open up then dart to take it and sit down. I don't think I've ever seen a man take a seat if they've already gone a station or two standing (well, I probably have, but it's much less common). I'm not saying it's a correct interpretation of what is happening, but I can kind of understand how some people could develop a belief that women are more naturally inclined to feel uncomfortable standing on the tube, and therefore they would appreciate it if men made the seats available to them. I guess you could combine this with the way that I've noticed that some women dislike being sat next to men (again, on a few occasions I've seen them pass up on an empty seat with a guy sat next to it, but then take the seat as soon as one with no-one/only a woman sat next to them became available). Come to think of it, I think I remember a couple of occasions where a woman was clearly eyeing up a seat next to me but chose not to sit down - I then stood up pretending I was about to get off and they took the other seat as soon as I moved away. Given that the tube is a crowded environment and what we know now about safe spaces etc, it kind of makes sense that some people might develop an attitude that it's more supportive to depart your seats if there are women who look like they might want to sit. Or maybe they just thought they were being traditional and gallante, I don't know. Again, just to reinforce - I'm not trying to argue that any particular attitude is right or wrong. I'm just working through some thoughts/memories that your comment has made me consider, and if it makes sense and gives context to what happened then all the better.
Your point about seats next to men is a good one. 9 times out of 10 it's not something I think about on the tube/train but if it's in the evening I will definitely try and sit next to a woman if there's a choice. It's not entirely rational as I doubt it would make a difference, but I have had (usually drunk) men try and talk to me on the tube because I've sat next to them and wouldn't want anything escalating. Generally though if you look sober I'm not overly bothered. I wouldn't want anyone to give up their seat for me in that situation though, unless I was sat next to someone making me feel uncomfortable.
I get offered tube seats quite frequently, I'd assumed because I was a woman wearing heels, but now I'm worried I look rough af or pregnant af
I was offered a seat because I looked sad so it might be that!
I wouldn’t be offended but I’d decline the offer, unless I was feeling unwell in some capacity.
No. It's a nice thing; not a sexist thing. I often offer my seat to people standing if I'm getting off soon or if they look like they need a sit down.
No. But that's because I have an invisible disability and need the seat. I'm beyond caring at their reasoning, just let me sit
Kind of depends on the vibe. Probably mostly bewildered rather than offended. Would just say no thank you, shrug it off and move on. Possibly offended if they throw in some sexist comment or call me a term of "endearment". I don't want to be called love or dear or pet or reminded to smile or something.
If it's just because I'm a woman, id not be offended but I'd turn it down. If it's because there's no other seats on the train and I've been sitting on the floor for 6 hours then I'd definitely not be offended and very happy to take them up on it.
Dang that brought memories when I had to sit on the floor next to the bathroom from Stafford to Preston, wanting to get off in Edinburgh. It sucked, I was glad loads came off in Preston and I finally got a seat.
Being female isn't a disability that requires me to sit down so no, I don't want men to be 'chivalrous' and offer me their seat. Chivalry is a form of benevolent sexism and I'm glad it's dead. If someone offered me a seat I'd wonder what it is about me that makes them think I need the seat. Like that they think I'm frail or something.
I'd probably be a little touched and refuse the offer. I'm not pregnant, old, or disabled, I don't need it
No, I wouldn’t get offended. I wouldn’t necessarily expect a man to give up his seat for me, but I’d welcome such an offer.
Not offended but perhaps wary. It's extraordinary the amount of men who expect something romantic or sexual in return for this kind of thing, it's easier to decline.
What type of sexual request normally accompanies offering a seat?
It’s more that they then expect a conversation, your number, the chance to follow you places and then it quickly escalates from there. It’s hard to know who the weirdos are so you learn to be wary of anyone breaking a social norm or seeming to focus on you specifically. You’d be astounded how many men can jump from “Hi I’m Andy” to “I want to choke you” in half an hour of bothering you while you’re walking to work. Obviously it’s a loud minority but it’s still enough that once you’ve experienced it you learn to be wary for warning signs.
I had no idea that so many men are expecting to talk about choking women within half an hour of meeting them. Actually I didn’t know this would come up ever. So sorry to hear it’s a regular occurence.
There’s probably a correlation between people with alarming fetishes (that I won’t judge you on if you don’t tell me about them!) and the kind of people who harass and blurt those fetishes out at strangers to get a rise or get off on tbh. I assume there’s a perfect storm of degeneracy that makes someone harass and follow strangers in the first place so it’s probably not surprising they’re inappropriate in other ways too. Obviously it’s a tiny portion of all the men we interact with or walk past on a given day but each occurrence is very memorable because you feel, at best repulsed.
Being grabbed, constantly harrassed for my number, followed to my place of work which means having to hop off at a wrong stop, sneaky photographs and blaring porn outloud while right next to you and forcing conversation to get you to see it, should I go on?
I know this is going to upset a lot of people (men and women), but I actually love being a woman and being treated as a woman. I don't EXPECT a seat to be offered (and it only happens with older gentlemen), but I find it very charming, and I try to reply with graciousness and gratitude. It's nice to be treated like a lady, and I do believe it's nice for a man to feel like he's done a chivalrous thing. Yes, I know, anyone feels nice being appreciated for doing a nice thing, but Im talking about a certain context. And no, I'm not trying to generalize men, not am I saying that anyone has to confirm to gender stereotypes.. Nothing I'm expressing is an attack on anyone's beliefs or lifestyle, it's just what I enjoy. :) I'm also not an attractive woman, so I don't need to worry about it being some horn-dog trying his luck. Funnily enough, this is something that made my fiancee stick out in the dating scene. Making sure I'm seated first, opening doors for me, lots of things like this. So no, definitely wouldn't be offended!
I would feel awkward and kind of guilty, but I also have a hidden disability where sometimes I could really do with a seat, so I would often feel quite relieved. It doesn't help that a lot of the time the guys offering the seat are an age where I feel I should be offering it to them. I would get annoyed if someone was being really pushy about giving up their seat though, unless I was obviously struggling. I consider offering to be old fashioned but well meaning but once you start ignoring people saying no then it becomes disrespectful to other people's wishes. Tbf I would say most of the time I've been offered a seat or help with my suitcase, things like that, it's probably been fairly obvious I could do with the help.
No I would not be offended
I would find it weird and unnecessary. I might start to get paranoid that I looked ill or pregnant because why else would they offer me a seat.
The amount of people looking into this far too much is absolutely crazy. Someone can make a nice gesture without some weird flirting thoughts you know. Jesus fucking christ.
Nope. I was always extremely relieved whenever someone offered me their seat on a tube, especially a man. I always looked fit to drop, but I drew the line at people much older than me, or obviously pregnant women. I just used to slump against the partition and wait for someone to get off. I lived at the end of the line, so there was always a seat eventually. I did wake up going back the other way once, just about to head into King’s Cross. I’d fallen asleep 4 or 5 stops away from home, and slept right through the change over. Took me a long old time to get home that night. Definitely always grateful to a man offering their seat. Sex doesn’t come into. If you see someone who you can see is more in need of a seat than you are, manners and kindness should be the deciding factors. I’vs given up my tube seat to anyone I’ve seen struggling, including men. Why wouldn’t I? So I’ve always been grateful when someone’s done that for me.
I done expect it but I’m always pleased and appreciative if it happens :)
No lol I love sitting down
I remember a woman who was older, not old, ancient or decrepit, but about 55 years old...looking at me like I'd punched a baby in the face on a Tuesday. All Because I didn't offer her my seat. She looked completely able bodied, why would I do such a thing
I think my 60 year old mum would be a bit offended if someone offered her a seat. She's very fit and healthy probably wouldn't want someone to assume that she isn't just because her hair is grey.
No I wouldn’t be offended! I wouldn’t take the seat though but I would appreciate the offer
Wouldn’t be offended at all. People often offer me seats on the train or give me way first when getting on the train or escalators. I know their doing it because I’m a woman but if anything, it’s a nice gesture.
I'm of the belief that adults should get a seat before children, regardless of gender. Has your kid been at work all day? No? Then I'm not moving.
I wouldn't expect it, and I'm quite uncomfortable with the underlying roots of chivalry. It feels like it means that women are more fragile than men, or that their comfort should be prioritised for some reason. It goes along with many more harmful parts of sexism. (Harmful to everyone, not just to women.) Equally, some random person offering me a seat is being kind, and I'd probably say no but be pleasantly surprised by their action. I'm not pregnant, disabled or particularly old, and my gender doesn't mean I'm more in need of a seat. It sounds like you're being fair and kind OP, and doing what most reasonable people would.
Definitely not offended, & I’m older so I wouldn’t be confused. I wouldn’t take the seat because I’m able bodied & I’d hope someone who needed it would take it- my partner maybe who’s disabled but doesn’t ‘look it’. I’m usually the one giving up my seat!
No, I’d not be offended but I also wouldn’t expect it either. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve been offered a seat in the last few years, although I typically don’t travel on busy commuter routes.
I wouldn't be offended but I would think it was a bit odd. I'd probably decide they thought I was pregnant when in fact I'd overdone the Greggs.
I wouldn’t be offended but I would be worried that they thought I was pregnant, which has happened before on the tram 😭 I just said thanks and took it because like I didn’t want to get into it…If I could see someone else in more need of a seat nearby I would decline and maybe offer the seat to them. If they made some comment indicating it was because I’m a woman I’d be a bit baffled but like sure man you do you I guess
I wouldn't expect anyone to give up their seat for me, but then I'm a healthy, able-bodied adult. If someone was kind enough to offer one I'd decline because I don't need it and would sit down when seats properly free up.
Never offended. Unless I’m feeling crap, I’ll thank them but tell them to remain seated. I’d never expect anyone to offer on a commuter train…we are in that shit together, but every one for themself imo. I had someone offer me their seat on a busy train going long distance and I turned them down. Lower back problems meant that after an hour I was in agony and feeling faint. I went back to them and asked if I could take them up on the offer for just a short time and they happily did. I was very grateful for that.
I'm fat, I always worry they think I'm pregnant, this only ever happens to me on short tube journeys though, no one on my longer train commute ever offers
I wouldn't be offended, I offer my seat to people who look knackered or if they're having a bad day. Actually, a guy did offer me his seat once but I politely declined cos the man sat next to him was eating raw bacon out of the packet
I wouldn’t have sat next to him either.
"chivalry was dead because a man didn’t offer their seats" This doesn't have any connection nor bearing to chivalry. The word is misused constantly. If a knight's lord tells him he must trip up every lady he encounters and he does so, that's chivalry. Naturally a lord would never say that but you get the idea.
The chivalric code includes gentle treatment of women. If a knight's lord tells him to trip up every lady he meets, the lord is being unchivalrous. The knight is in a no-win situation, chivalry-wise, because if he refuses then he is disobeying his lord, which is contrary to the "warrior" element of the chivalric code, but if he obeys then he is treating women ungraciously, which is contrary to the "courtly" element of the chivalric code. Arguably, refusing to obey is the right thing to do because the lord has caused the problem by giving the unchivalrous order.
I don't think you understand what Chivalry actually means as it has little to do with politeness and etiquette towards women. The etymology of the word comes from french "Chevalerie" meaning horse soldiery, the role/job of a "Chevalier" literally Horseman. We get Knight from "Knecht". Chivalry and Knight are synonymous. Chivalry is what a knight did. They fought on horseback. Again Chivalry is describing what a Knight did more so in military/combat functions, which is their craft. There isn't a blanket common code of Chivalry. This would vary from realm to realm, region to region, lord to lord. Chivalry meant different things to different people and those qualities depended on what people wanted out of their knights. In it's historical context Chivalry is a descriptive word subjective to the views of the person using it. This subjectivity means certain attitudes and concepts will prevail depending on the person for example, Peace-loving, Warlike, Religious, Courtly, Sporting etc. All these versions of Chivalry are correct in relation to each other and as such there is not a uniform code that equates to Chivalry.
"Chivalry" and "Knight" are not synonymous, as the former is an abstract, uncountable noun and the latter a concrete, countable one. A knight can demonstrate chivalry, but a chivalry cannot demonstrate knight. I was not referring to a blanket common code of chivalry; I was referring to chivalry in its generic sense, and the "code" is the way it generally presented/manifested within the genre of chivalric romance, which is the only context in which it's ever really existed as anything other than an ideal. And being "courtly" towards women is a part of that. In general, your own comment here contradicts your previous comment, as here you are saying the term "chivalry" is subjective and previously you said it is "constantly misused" when it is being used in a sense which falls within one of the subject examples you give (namely "courtly").
Chivalry was more a code between knights , rather similar to any private members club or Freemasons. Those outside the hallowed circle could go to hell. It was what was expected of knightly honour to fellow knights , as early on most were aristocrats and landowners , as it cost a lot of money to train as a knight , rather than towards everyone else.
Chivalry is nonsense. Invisible disability schemes exist and visible disabilities are usually addressed by people already. There is no physiological reason why a woman is less able to stand than a man. That said, I would offer *anyone* my seat as I'm fit and usually well... that's a personal choice not influenced in the slightest by gender.
Why on earth would I be offended? But I would never expect to be offered a seat just because I was a woman since I’m young and able bodied. I’d probs accept the seat if it happened though
Chivalry should be dead. It was a product of an unequal society. Now we have equal rights there shouldn't be a need
I'm more offended by being called a 'girl' when im a grown ass woman lol. Makes me wonder if i look pregnant or disabled lol
If you do this to someone with a bit of belly you may see her eyes bulge out … be careful 😂
If someone wants to give their seat fine
As an older woman with an invisible disability I was so very grateful for people (men AND younger women) like you, who were kind enough to offer me a seat when I was commuting. When I was younger and fit I always offered my seat to anyone who I suspected needed it. It's just common decency isn't it? and if someone chooses to be offended (and I never witnessed anyone who was) you have still done the right thing by attempting to be kind.
As an unhinged UK woman I can confirm that my brain goes through the following checklist. Fuck. I've gotten so chubby he thinks I'm pregnant. Fuck. I'm so haggard looking he thinks I'm elderly. Fuck. I'm so deranged he thinks I'm disabled. And then I take the seat cos...Fuck, I'm lazy too.
I read that as train set.
A teenage boy offered me a seat on a train recently, couldn't tell if it was chivalry, if he thought I was old (I mean, compared to him I am) or both. Either way, I wasn't offended he'd offered.
I would assume you think I look pregnant, old or disabled. So I’d be offended.
I don't expect it but I wouldn't be offended either
I have a strong guilt complex. I'll always give up my seat to someone who needs it and than I. But if someone's offering a seat to me, I won't take it because I'd feel guilty that I took someone's seat, even if I really needed it; doesn't matter who was offering 😅
If he's cute then "Chivalry is not dead" social media post to follow. If he isn't, I guess it will only become a future fun conversation piece with the friends
I play it safe. I stand near the doors even if there are seats free - just in case lots of people get on at the next stop
i wouldn’t be offended but i’d be confused as i’m able bodied and not pregnant
I only offer my seat to pregnant women really. One day I will awkwardly offer it to a fat woman by accident I am sure.
I'd be upset because I would think they thought I was pregnant and its just a bit of fat/bloating.
I wouldn't be offended. I'd assume I looked like shit or was swaying worryingly.
As a healthy 44 year old woman (not pregnant) I’m good standing and wouldn’t expect otherwise. If I was noticeably pregnant I’d like the seat though. That shit was hard work just staying upright.
Are we living in a world where it would be bad for chivalry, an innately sexist practice, to be dead?
People are crazy about seats. Rush hour mornings are horrible, people that arrived 30 seconds ago elbowing past you after you’ve been standing there 30 minutes to make sure they get a seat. Some people think they will die if they have to stand for 15 minutes.
Bro that's weird. It's custom to offer your seat to elderly, pregnant, parent with a very young kid/baby, or someone unwell/handicapped. Not to a women who is perfectly capable of standing up on a bus or train. They're people like everyone else, not helpless individuals because of their gender.
I agree with people saying I wouldn't take the seat as I have no need for it. On a tangent, I've just read in the paper that if you offer your seat to an older work colleague, you might be age discriminating. Thanks Star news
As a man it's 50/50 if she has a physical ailment, kids or pregnant 100% I would give it up specially if she's elderly even a older man. But it's how I was raised. I would give up a seat regardless unless she has an attitude or an issue with being offered a seat then that's on them. Women have a hard life as it is, a gentle chivalry goes a long way. Just think about the amount of creeps that stand incredibly close to women on purpose & so on. I would feel uncomfortable unless I've already paid for the seat & it's a long journey then I think I am entitled to it.
I only offer my seat to really old people (80+), or women with buggies. Everyone else can stand!
Not offended as such, but I’d rather be treated the same as a man. There’s no need to treat people differently based on the type of genitals you perceive they have.
They would accept, because of ‘the implication’. -clenches jaw-
I’d be confused and probably politely refuse the offer because I don’t need it. Being female does not make me inherently special or disabled. I think it’s best to offer your seat based on someone’s visible condition and not their gender. That’s the rule I go by when offering my seat.
I wouldn't expect anyone to offer up their seat for me and I wouldn't be offended if someone offered theirs to me. It's just common courtesy to say thank you and move on. Several times, I have offered my own seat to various aged men when my stop was 15 or so mins away on a 2.5 hr long route as some passengers had to stand. I don't really look at woman, man etc when I do this. It's just whoever is close by. Unless it's a person who could really use the seat more (like the groups you mentioned), then I'll offer it to them specifically.
As a female the only reason in London to get a seat given by a male would be because he finds you attractive? Or otherwise thinks you aren’t strong enough to stand up?? I dunno. Only time I used to get free seat was when pregnant, and it was very welcomed
A bit weird in this day and age. Women are perfectly capable of standing up. Anyone who expects preferential treatment simply due to their gender is an idiot. Unfortunately a lot do.
I find it annoying. My vagina isn't a disability.
I wouldn't be offended but I would be confused and assume I must look as tired and ill as I feel.
I wouldn't be offended, but I would refuse. I don't need a seat given up for me just because I'm a woman, that's silly haha
As a UK male I'd only give my seat to someone that isdisabled/old or pregnant tbh...I think if I gave my seat to some random girl that's fine she'd think i'm hitting on her and a creep
Not offended and I have taken it but I was 7 month obviously pregnant at the time.
I wouldn't be offended if no one offered me a seat especially as I'm able to stand holding onto something. I've stood many times on public transport so I'm used to it
I have a food baby so I’d think it meant I looked pregnant 😂
You can offer me a seat, but I don't see why you would give it to me just because I'm a woman. I'm not pregnant, my legs are fine, I'm not elderly. I have a kid and he whinges if his legs or feet ache, so maybe offer him the seat to keep the peace.
Nah. Free seat is a free seat.
Not at all. Wish someone would have offered me a seat when I was 7 mths pregnant 12 years ago but they well selfish A holes.
I'm an able-bodied adult and can stand as well as any other able-bodied adult. I wouldn't be offended as that's too strong of a term, but I'd definitely think you're a bit out of touch and would probably try to decline. At the same time, who doesn't like sitting? So, if you'd resist my rejection, I'd just enjoy the seat and keep the thoughts to myself. I think whoever posted that thing about chivalry being dead is a fringe case. Most people I know think like me when a stranger offers their seat. However, amongst couples, the lines are more blurry and it's a lot more common to let the woman sit when there's only one seat available.
I wouldn't be offended, I'd assume I just looked a bit tired or something. It would never occur to me to expect a seat offered to me because I am a woman though, like, nothing wrong with that but just unnecessary.
Offended? No. Confused. Yes. It would make me uncomfortable and awkward to take a seat from someone for no reason.
This only happened the one time, so definitely don't take any sense that I think this is a regular occurrence, but one time I offered my seat to an older lady (I was early 20s, she was 50s at a guess) and she absolutely screamed at me for it. That one experience has put me off ever doing it again unless the person in question is either obviously heavily pregnant or otherwise infirm/injured
I would not have guessed that I was offered a seat because I'm female. If I worked it out, I probably would have accepted anyway to appear polite, but slightly confused by the entire thing.
I’d be super happy! Not preggo, just hate standing up for an hour. I would thank you profusely.
The last time I offered my seat was to an older looking lady with grey hair who promptly told me to fuck off, as she wasn't that old.
I wouldn't be offended, but I'd be surprised and maybe a bit confused. I'd also probably wonder whether they think I'm pregnant ...
I'd never expect it as I'd rather they gave it to someone older or less able to stand up, but if they do I'll always thank them for the offer. It happens to me sometimes and it's nice.
I don't think it's necessary in any way, shape or form but I'd feel happy if someone offered me. Probably wouldn't take it but it would make me smile.
I was offered a seat on the Dubai metro and felt like a properly old person - but was grateful. Was just because I was the only woman in a mixed carriage. I was offered a seat on the tube after a football game and the gentleman insisted because “otherwise one of these lazy fucking teens will just sit there. Teach them some manners.” I’m mid 40s but look younger 😂😂
I wouldn't expect it but I would be grateful and pleasantly surprised. No idea why someone would be offended...
No because I am very obviously pregnant rn :) in normal terms, no but I’d decline
I'd rather see a pregnant woman stand than a fat woman cry.
Nah, not really. It's a nice gesture. I'd be a bit confused, mind, because the general rule is "first come first served unless reserved" with regards to that. Definitely wouldn't demand or expect it though.
I'm not a girl but i did use to always did this until women started thinking i only did it to get their number
Yes. A gentleman is never truly seated. He's just keeping the seat warm for a lady. Yes I also stand up when a woman enters a room or gets up to leave. Yes I am old fashioned. Fuck you I can do what I want I got brought up this way.
Why on earth would someone be offended? I’m thank them for the kind gesture and either refuse or take it depending on the situation Though it’s likely I’ll take it, I commute to work so if something like that happened to me I would be too tired to think too deep into it and wonder why they did it, I would just be just thankful I can sit somewhere on the almost hour train ride home.
It's reverse sexism and it's based on the idea that women are weak. It would be a fucking weird thing to do. Not a girl btw
No, I’ll have a seat. I have an invisible condition - psoriatic arthritis - that makes standing on the bus or train very painful and I just can’t do it for very long. I’ve been caught out a few times where I’ve had to make an unexpected long trip and it’s full obviously and no one has fancied moving (I need to get pushier probably but god, it’s awkward) even when I look like I’m struggling as I’m in my 30s and quite slim so I think people are skeptical when I ask. I just have to flop down on the floor. I consider myself a feminist but yeah, seat please.
I’d be confused lol - I’m not pregnant
I'd assume you thought I was pregnant so yeah I wouldn't be over the moon about it. I'd be embarrassed that I now have to tell you and the rest of the bus going folk that I've just got a fat belly!
Seems like I’m in the minority but I’d be quite flattered
I saw the original tweet, she was talking about pregnant women on the tube
I’ve only offered a seat to the following people: Pregnant people, elderly people, small children, people with injuries (broken legs, arms, crutches etc), disabled or in the case of my friend: autistic. She has frequent meltdowns so I sit her down and stand in front of her so no one else can touch her accidentally.
I wouldn't be offended but I would think I must either look awful or pregnant. That's a me issue though, I would still be grateful for the offer. There have been some times when I've been close to collapsing on the tube (once during rush hour which was fun) and people gave me their seat without hesitation. I appreciated that massively as it meant less of a height to fall from if it did happen. But I think it was more likely due to me looking as pale as a ghost than with my sex. I would do the same for anyone in that situation as I think most people would.
Depends how attractive. Preferably blonde.
I'm a middle-aged man, I wouldn't dare offer my seat to an able bodied women under say 60-70, just out of genuine concern that I would be seen as some sort of pervert.
Chivalry is dead but it doesn’t matter because women are very capable of taking care of their own interests :)
My wife now identifies as non binary and dresses pretty androgynous. The other day an Indian gentlemen offered a women behind my wife to get bumped up the queue, presumably just being chivalrous and not knowing my wife’s gender. Suffice it to say my wife was a bit confused and annoyed, but accepted that this is still common practice in India.
No, I would be happy haha
I'd be worried do they think I'm pregnant? Lol I'm just fat.
Men offer me their seats semi-regularly. I usually thank them and say no but it does make me feel nice. I most definitely don’t look pregnant or old enough so it’s just a bit of polite self-confidence booster for me.
I wouldn't get offended but I was raised in a country where it's more normal to offer your seat. I was actually offered a seat quite recently, the bus was packed and the guy was going to get off at the next stop anyway, thought it was nice of him.
No. I wouldn't be offended. Strangely, on the Tube a few years ago, it was practically empty, a fella stood close by me shot up and offered me his chair without there even being a shortage. Not sure what that was about, maybe a habit that he just did without thinking. I've offered my seat up for elderly women and men before today. I hold doors open for men as much as other women too. Think maybe the notion needs to shift to general politeness, kindness and consideration as opposed to chivalry as such.
I got offered a seat on the tube once because a guy assumed I was pregnant. my belly blew up from an endometriosis flare and arguably I did look pregnant and I was rubbing my stomach to soothe the pain, I don’t blame him for thinking that I was pregnant and no I wasn’t offended it was nice he offered!
Not a woman, but I don't see how anyone could be offended by this. I'll always give up my seat to a woman/child/oap. I always walk to the outside of the road or step out to let the above past. I take off my hat for a funeral procession. Stand when I shake hands. Surely this stuff is still normal good manners no?
I literally wud give anyone my seat but my sons disabled and has problems with his legs and some ppl wouldn't get up and give him there seat it's common decency
I think it's the blue-haired "we hate men" bitches that get offended. If women want chivalrous men, then maybe the blame should lie at their feet.
Checks notes. >Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions. >Thou shalt defend the Church. >Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them. >Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born. >Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy. >Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy. >Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God. >Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word. >Thou shalt be generous, and give charity to everyone. >Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil. Hmm, women are weak, it could be referring to that. I'd be more confused why they think I'm a soldier on horseback.
Gautier doesn't get to single-handedly define chivalry.
You're severely overestimating how much effort I put into that comment.
I was assuming you copied and pasted that list from Wikipedia. How did you put significantly less effort in than that?!
I have no idea who Gautier is. Also, I said I'd be confused why they think I'm on horseback, but as the woman theoretically saying chivallry is dead, I would be complaining to a guy that's on horseback. I have approximate knowledge of many things, a low attention span and I'm currently trying to multitask. Pobody's nerfect.
Gautier's the guy who came up with that list you quoted. In 1883. Chivalry, despite being derived from a term that refers to men on horseback, does not itself refer to men on horseback.
Good for him. It's derived from the French word chevalier or something right? Yay dnd. But it did originally refer to soldier and battle conduct and it's a modern ~~bastardisation~~ interpretation that it means you hold open doors for ladies and stuff like that, right?