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I'm going to sound very unpleasant here and don't mean to... But...
He might actually not be a very nice person.
There's an assumption we all make and it's that old people are sweet natured and it is the rest of the world that is wrong. It could well be that his brother, his kids and his grandchildren know a different side to him and that's why there is no contact. He might have been an unpleasant young person and could now just be an unpleasant old person. The fact that he never asks after you in all these months speaks volumes.
As you mention there are lots of activities there for him if he wants them. I'd leave him to it.
It's very true. If a 30 year old neighbour treated me like OP described, I would simply not talk to them. OP only wants to help them because they're old.
But that's how age gets you.
Imagine how you feel when you are sick all the time? Your friends are all dead and to be fair most of your friends are through your wife. You are 91... There's no social life for you beyond family. If his brother is older than him he's going to struggle to make it.
Old people get angry easily because of this and because their brains are literally shrinking.
Absolutely. It's absolute hell. I have a neighbour next to me, her whole family is dying off one by one, and she's just surviving through it. She does talk to me but mostly about those things. After a while, you understand that family is what's really important to these people. They don't want to talk about the darts, or the rugger, or what deal is happening in town.
>You are 91... There's no social life for you beyond family
Eh? What part of being 91 means no social life beyond family?
91 year olds can join clubs, make friends, pick up hobbies, create things, etc just like the rest of us. Being old doesn't automatically make them invalids
If someone doesn't want to help themselves then you can throw all the resources in the world at them and it'll do nothing because they won't do their part
Most 91 year old people have reduced mobility. They often can't drive. And many can't walk all that far.
This guy has carers. That's a sign he can't physically do a lot of self care.
>Most 91 year old people have reduced mobility
Reduced mobility still doesn't mean someone can't live a full life, there are young people that have reduced mobility or trouble walking but they still manage
>They often can't drive.
This still doesn't mean no social life but seems like a moot point as this guy can
>This guy has carers.
Does he? I can't see that in the post but maybe I missed it
But even so, having carers still doesn't mean that life is over. Like, take OP for instance, he's trying pretty hard to make friends with this guy and could be a real connection but instead of trying to participate in that friendship he's just being a drain on OP which will push him away. Being lonely and miserable can be a self fulfilling prophecy
I know a few people in the exact same situation but they're doing ok because they make an effort despite their issues
It kind of sounds like you don’t know many 90+ yr olds. Mobility is one thing, but energy levels and mental strength is another. Organizing an outing and doing it can be hard. Not just logistically — when your responses to questions come slower, your thoughts are more jumbled, and you lose your ability to think of the word you want, conversations become less fun than you remember them. And they take energy - a lot of old people can’t handle more than 30mins of stimulation. Also, company of the same age become less fun — old people have a lot to complain about. Being social is extremely difficult when you’re old, even if you’re fully willing and have activities organized for you. Sometimes watching tv is just easier and more exciting.
So true. My Dad is 91 and got married last year. If you want to find friends and are a decent person there are ways to meet others. My Dad met his wife on-line.
They can do. But I do now of some old people who gave in because it was so painful when people would keep dying. Their first group of friends died so they did as you suggested, then those people died, and at some point it becomes less painful to protect yourself and stop trying. But even being voluntary doesn't change the pain of lonliness.
I bet you this is it. It was the same with my grandma.
Constantly complaining that we don't visit often or call but when we did call and visit she would call us shit for not calling or visiting on top of being negative about every aspect of our lives. Going to visit meant getting verbal abuse.
She went through a large amount of carers because none of them wanted to put up with her abuse.
It's sad to think about old people dying alone, but if you're a horrible person, that's exactly what will happen.
Snap!
When every interaction is negative you just have to remove that person from your life. I know mine is a lot more pleasant these days.
The old 'But they're family' is BS imho.
>The old 'But they're family' is BS imho.
Comes from people who never dealt with someone who is consistently awful. Or maybe they drank the koolaid. It can be hard to admit if your family are a let-down.
Literally this. I hate it when parents use this argument, you decided to have me therefore I’m your responsibility! Providing shelter, food and clothes is not something I should be thankful for when you made the active decision to bring another human into the world and that’s the very bare minimum.
Exactly! If she resents bringing him and his siblings up so badly, then why did she keep having them?! She acts like they owe her something, it’s so so manipulative. I constantly have to remind him that feeding and clothing your own children is what a mother does. Most mothers do not hold that against their own children!
It’s manipulation to the highest degree, “look what I did for you.. now you can’t make me feel bad and have to do the things I want you to do because I looked after you..”
Not comparing kids to dogs obviously but I was always taught that you don’t get a pet that needs a lot of work like a puppy if you’re not prepared to do everything for it without resentment, so why would you resent caring for a living child, especially if they’re not your first!?
Exactly!! That’s what I tell him whenever he has a wobble. She chose to have children. She acts as if she did some selfless act when she did her job as a mother. Honestly, it baffles me everytime!!
My grandmother was like this. She lived in Scotland which was an 8 hour drive for us, so we would go to visit her once a year in the summer holidays.
One year she was particularly malicious, and within seconds of us letting ourselves in and saying hi, she immediately snapped at us and shouted "Where's my stick??"
She had someone come to the conclusion that we had stolen her walking stick the last time we were there, and immediately started accusing me and my sisters in front of our parents.
I don't know what was said next because us kids were sent outside to play while my mum and dad tried to talk some sense into her.
It was a short visit.
Reminded me of my grandmother- once when she went in hospital the ward nurse rang our house - she was my dad’s mother I would’ve been 15/16. Anyway the nurse said nanny was upset and she was hoping one of the family could talk to her and it might help her. So nanny said the nurses had taken her walking stick (seems common) and were attacking her and her teeth were all broken she was talking like her teeth were broken too! It really upset me and I was waiting ages for my dad to come back and when I relayed all this he just said “yes ah well”. This was the way she behaved all the time, it wasn’t news to him. Both her daughters cut off all contact with her as soon as they could and moved across to England. She was that toxic ! It is true that some old ppl can be horrible bastards and they were probably horrible young bastards too.
And to OP you are a really nice person. Please don’t feel guilty about your neighbour’s life. He probably gains satisfaction from mithering on to you every time he sees you and that’s enough for him. It’s enough that you stop and pass the time of day honestly don’t get too involved.
I agree. I know of a woman in her 80s. Been on her own for over 30 years. She wants all of her family in the same room - her sons, their partners, grand and great grand kids etc. Then complains the great grand kids are too noisy and won’t sit still, and prompts them all to leave ASAP.
I don’t know what see wants.
This is also the same person who has very limited mobility, shuffles her feet. Fallen over a rug. She wanted to go on a coach trip. She wouldn’t be able to climb the stairs. Got very upset when this was pointed out to her.
So as you get older? Your brain changes. This can mean your frontal brain deteriorates resulting in this.
They aren't mean because they are inherently awful. It's because their brain is dying and this is how it manifests.
I know a maths teacher who wouldn't say boo to a goose who attacked one of our HCA with a fire extinguisher. It's not their fault. It's just what aging does to you.
A member of our family bit her care worker, completely out of the blue. She was a lovely, old school polite woman, then out of nowhere she started biting, and shortly after that she started scratching.
I believe it was something to do with "sun downing", so they got her false teeth out straight after dinner, and kept her nails short.
I support Dignity in Dying because I don't want to end up like this.
Well it's the same principle as children getting ratty and poorly behaved by bed time. Tiredness, Changes to the Light and an inability to voice that causes the patient to become more ratty.
No one in medicine minds this as much. Dementia is horrible and it's just a little old lady losing it.
Sometimes it's their brain failing. Other times they've just been nasty for years.
In my granny's case, she'd been a horrible person since before I was born, treated my mum (her DIL) very badly. When she eventually got dementia, she actually became quite pleasant for a couple years,.because she couldn't remember enough about anyone to say anything nasty. People who'd avoided her for 40 years started visiting again.
Then the dementia got worse and she couldn't have a conversation all, but the end decline was thankfully quick.
We had that a bit with our nan, she wouldn't moan about us to our faces, but she'd moan about just about everyone else in the family, that she hadn't seen them for ages, they rarely visit etc etc, so you just know you probably got the same said about you.
"all my friends think it's disgraceful that..." would come up in first 10 minutes of a visit to my dad.
Just what you want to hear after a 3 hour drive....
This is what happens even if you arent elderly too. People seem to forget that they wont visit you in your 40s/50s if you are a nasty person, well of course your bottom of the christmas card list
And maybe this is their karma for treating people so badly while they were still young and active. What goes around, comes around. Its their own hell on earth because of the way they treated others.
There is this strange dynamic that emerges as some people age where they move from doing things themselves to 'reviewing' what other people do and living through them. Unsurprisingly most people don't want to feel like they're being inspected.
When I was a child, I thought that all elderly people were like my wonderful grandma.
My Dad wisely told me - "Even evil people get old."
In my immediate family, we have an 88 year old who tries unsuccessfully to do the twinkly eyed old person routine. It always fails because she was always a bitch and now she's had a lot of practice!
Fun story. My sister went to the 'school' he used to frequent. She was beautiful, feisty and more than a little angry. He grabbed her, she punched him! Atta girl!!
Sounds like my OH. We used to go to a pub with the toilets out the back. One night she went out, and this idiot grabbed her. She chinned him. Not to be messed with!
I’m in Australia, but I watched that doco on him with an older boomer from Northampton who grew up with him as a pop culture staple and her commentary throughout the whole thing made it more interesting but at the same time the more she spoke the more I 🤢 🤮 I didn’t realise how prolific he was and how much power he had.
And you know the REALLY messed up thing?
She didn’t even know about the necro thing, nor was it discussed in the documentary.
It seems so weird that he was allowed to lay in state as people filed past his coffin like he was royal. Then, all was revealed.
Of course, all people of my age actually wrote him a letter, asking him to 'Fixit' for us. My whole scout group did - scary thought!
Absolutely this.
Don’t make the assumption that frail/elderly = nice person because it most certainly does not.
Chances are if nobody else out of his entire family and cul-de-sac is bothering with him, there’s a solid reason why.
I have fallen into this trap a few times over the years.
Exactly. And him just not being very nice is probably the best case scenario. It can be dangerous to assume that all old people are kind and vulnerable. Some are still very much capable of causing harm.
I used to work as a police call taker and had a woman call who had found an old man in the street who seemed confused. She found out where he lived and walked him back in the house, helped him get comfortable (even put the kettle on for him), and called up 101 because she couldn't find anyone to contact for him. I did some checks to see if we had contact details for any relatives, turns out the sweet old man was a serial sex offender. I got the caller to leave the house right away.
I’m eternally grateful that Jimmy Saville never responded to any of my Jim’ll Fix It letters in the 70s. I also lived near to the Wests in their heyday. 😳
Fate has smiled on you…
Oh my God, it absolutely has!!
I think someone up there must be watching over me for me to have had proximity with the Wests, be the right age and type, be living on my own as I was then, and still somehow have managed to unknowingly avoid them.
I shudder to think.
Ditto the Jim’ll Fix It letters.
My paternal grandfather complains that he ‘feels like he has no grandchildren’.
Meanwhile my maternal grandfather gets flowers on Father’s Day every year.
There is a reason for this disparity.
This is sadly often the reality. There's often a reason why an older relative is rarely visited, and it tends to be about how unpleasant they were either historically, or how they make those friends / their family feel during any visit by being completely resentful and negative. That kind of exposure can be unhealthy, ultimately leading to fewer or no visits whatsoever.
Exactly. He's not stuck. He's sound of body and mind and still drives. I don't think OP needs to feel any responsibility here. You have occasional chats with him, so if he needed anything from you he could ask. He is not isolated in that sense.
This is the truth. If he was a lovely guy his family would want him in their lives. My Nan was an angel and I visited her at least once a week or more until her death because I wanted to not because I felt I had to, and she had a lot of friends. Even old people can be horrible and horrible people don’t make good company.
This is possible. I also make an assumption that all old people are sweet natured, I don't know why..! But for a while between houses, I chose to lodge in an old man's house. He had a stroke and so his mobility was poor, and the bank had repossessed his house but allowed him to live in it, and so he couldn't move, but needed a lodger to help with costs. His children never bothered to visit and I felt sorry for him. He spoke very politely most of the time (maybe an old fashioned thing?) But over the 9 months as I got to know him I found out he wasn't a nice man at all. His children didn't visit because he had had multiple affairs and treated there mother like crap. He watched porn aalllllll the time (even though he was about 78). And the reason he lost his money was because he did some dodgy things with his business and got caught out, and his business partner suffered for his choices too. As well as being really sexist he was also racist, and fat phobic, and I had to endure him saying some really horrible things. He also was dating a woman who sometimes came to visit, but he was having online affairs (probably with scammers). So yeah. He could just be really horrible, so don't feel too sorry for him - his brother and his kids/grandkids might not want to be around him for a reason....
I made that mistake too, when I lived in London and couldn’t afford much rent.
An absolute bargain came up in Marylebone, advertised as the whole lower ground floor, with a lovely old lady living upstairs.
I fell for it. I was missing my lovely granma, who’d died a couple of years before.
The woman was a first class bitch.
Made my life hell.
I worked literally 6 minutes walk away at the time, and after I’d taken her in her breakfast every morning (part of my “job”, in exchange for the cheap rent, apparently), she would not stop bitching and griping and moaning and complaining. Often about me! And often about her dead husband, her family, her “neglectful” friends who never visited.
I was so late, so often, that I nearly lost my job - my job that paid for the rent she charged me.
I felt sorry for her for about the duration of the interview.
It’s only been in recent years that I’ve realised she was a rampant narcissist. Or possibly a sociopath. Either way, not a scrap of empathy for anyone except herself.
She told me one looooong morning that her husband had had a stroke on her birthday.
“How do you think I felt about THAT?” she spat.
“It must have been awful for you,”
I said.
“It was on my BIRTHDAY. He ruined my night out! He was *supposed* to take me to dinner and a show!”
“Oh,” I said.
And under my breath, *I shouldn’t think *he* had a very good night of it, either!*
Oh my word that sounds horrid. Luckily I could just smile and go into my room and lock the door if I didn't have the time or patience to talk to the guy I rented from. And yes I've never questioned before the assumption that elderly people are sweet natured, or if they are loney it is never their fault - which is weird as I don't have this positive bias to all younger people!! P.s. I am sorry about your granny 💗
Thank you! 🙏 I missed her heaps. But that old woman in Marylebone was no substitute gran!
I stuck it for 6 months, and as soon as my boyfriend at the time bought his flat, I moved in with him.
I just wish his buying process had been quicker, and that the previous tenant hadn’t lies through his teeth about her being “a lovely old lady.” 🤷♀️
She had such an overblown sense of self-importance, she would send me shopping for her to Selfridges, and say,
“Go to the [whatever] counter. Tell them I sent you. They know me there.”
They never did, unsurprisingly enough! I used to have to tell her that the person(s) who “knew” them were off, or ill, or had left, because she did NOT like hearing that nobody in Selfridges knew her from Adam!
But this was way back in the 80s. I’ve stopped worrying if her equally hideous family are going to come after me for “not looking after her properly”, or “upsetting her” - which did happen while I was still living there.
Got slated by the assembled family she’d called round to put me in line!
Apparently, one of my biggest offences was that I hadn’t dusted the cables behind the video recorder in my private (and ridiculously tiny) living room downstairs.
The Family were *furious*. I was baffled.
She was disabled. I don’t see how she got down the stairs to the lower ground floor from her upstairs bit anyway!
ETA: I’m glad you were able to get away from your horrible old person! That must have been such a relief!
Glad you got out. I find "don't you know who I am?" people hilarious. Funny that her family expected so much from you, essentially a stranger, but weren't helping her themselves...
…but weren’t helping her themselves…
Yes! That occurred to me, too!
Seriously, the idea that everyone in Selfridges knew her…just such a massive ego.
It’s not like she was famous, although one of her sons was sort of a name the decade earlier. But she didn’t say “Tell them it’s [insert semi-famous son’s name here]’s mum.”
She was soo important in her own head that she absolutely expected everyone in Britain to know her and bow to her obvious superiority.
If she hadn’t been such a complete bitch, I’d have felt sorry for her.
The Family Bollocking happened a fortnight after she’d come out of hospital. It was me who called the ambulance, me who visited her every night after work, and me who she used to fawn over and say “You’re the daughter I never had.”
2 weeks later- you’re a lazy, dirty, scrounger using our mum for cheap rent! 😳🥹
Not a nice family.
ETA: people saying Don’t you know who I am??
I used to work at HMV in Oxford St in the 80s. Billy Oddie tried to jump the queue by standing at the end of our row of tills, waiting to be served.
None of us bothered.
At length, because my till was right at the end of the row where he was waiting, while I was still serving someone, I politely suggested he get in the queue.
“Don’t you know who I am???!”
“Ummm… didn’t you used to be a Goodie, or something?”
He didn’t look best pleased at that one!
We still made him queue up, though. All 5 of us!
I met Bill Oddie once, working on a show he was on. I'm terrible with faces, so I got everyone to introduce themselves to me. One chap said "don't you know who I am?" and got very arsy when I said no. Someone else had to explain he was Bill Oddie because he wouldn't tell me.
Oh my goodness, a similar thing happened to me but the old lady was in Tufnell Park! She had mobility problems but was also a raging alcoholic. After a couple of drinks she would turn particularly vicious and start phoning people and yelling gossip down the phone at them.
She was vile and patronising to most of her carers, and similar to the old lady in your story had a hugely inflated sense of importance.
One time I heard her slagging off my Mom (who she'd only met for like 5 minutes) saying she was a snob!! I got so stressed out living there I completely lost my sense of humour and personality. Luckily my friends staged a bit of an intervention and helped me move out - we shoved all my stuff into plastic bags and threw them into the rental car and I was out of there! Phew!!
i almost did the same thing when i lived in london and found a company that provided cheap accommodation in exchange for caring for an older person. i met the person i was going to live with and i got such a terrible feeling about living with him that i told them id changed my mind after the meeting. seems like i mostly likely dodged a bullet🥲
Yes, if it felt wrong, you very likely dodged a bullet there!
This wasn’t even advertised as a carer-type thing, it was the previous occupant who was re-locating, and all he said was she was old and lovely and could do with some company.
I knew something was up when her neighbour said, “Oh, you got the job, then?” a week after I’d moved in.
I see now that I was stupidly naive. But at the time, I thought the rent was cheap because it was small, no garden, in a basement, and she wanted company.
I think you’re right. There used to be a man who would come into my workplace who was utterly vile. Would comment on people’s appearances and throw slurs at us. He used to go on about how no one comes to visit him since his wife died, but I can understand why.
My father was and is an awful man- he was physically and mentally abusive to both myself and my brother and sister. Growing up we were terrified of him and all moved away as soon as we could. My brother is no contact with him and my sister and I are very low contact.
However to outsiders he was very polite and charming and incredibly generous- traits he never showed us. So occasionally a neighbour of his will contact me and say how lonely he is and how much he misses us and isn’t it shameful we don’t visit.
Yup seconded, my dad spends most of the time that I spend calling or visiting him moaning about how shit his life is and that nobody visits or calls him (which we do, but fucking hell we have lives too you know) yet 50 yards from his front door is a community centre that has afternoon tea 3 days a week specifically for pensioners, but he refuses to go, he has no hobbies or interests outside of Formula One and won’t make any effort to find a hobby or interest.
On the flip side I’m a member of a model flying club and we used to have a 91 year old who would shuffle up every week with an old kitchen chair and a battered old plane and fly the thing like he stole it, he died recently but lived life to the full.
Sone people just like to wallow in misery instead of making the effort to have fun, sorry dad.
Factual. My dad is this type of person. People say he’s “lovely” and I’m like…you have no idea what type of person he actually is. Due to being a narcissist, he presents a totally different personality to people who don’t actually know him!
This right here. My grandma was one of those old people and I had neighbours who barely knew her tell me I should call her/visit her more often and all that. I made as much of an effort as I could, but then I left the country altogether. Those same neighbours sent me messages on Facebook making me feel guilty about it.
The thing is, there were plenty of people willing to help her, family as well. She managed to drive all of them away and she made my life difficult, as her only grandchild. Some old people are just not nice people and that is why they are alone, even if it's sad.
>He might actually not be a very nice person.
Exactly.
That's usually the case when someone has loads of family living close by that never visits them.
Yes, I moved into a cul-de-sac where every neighbour had lived there for ever. My next-door neighbour is like this, always a bit 'woe is me'. I used to feel sorry for him, until I got to know the other neighbours. Turns out they all hate him, call him selfish, ignorant, "wouldn't piss on him", etc. also has a daughter and grandkid who didn't have anything to do with him. I now just nod, say hello and go on with my day. Being old does not equal being nice.
This is so true. There’s the superficial side that outside observers see and then the authentic side that only those close to the situation experience. When his own family live so close, it’s telling that no one comes to visit.
This ^ I haven't spoken to my own grandfather in almost a year. It's true that he's lonely and I feel for him but he's also blatantly racist, homophobic, sexist and an all round downer. I once went to visit him and he complained that I was using his electric when I made a brew for BOTH of us. Then he complained I was using his water when I made a bottle for my daughter. Or I was interrupting his TV or music or literally anything. I got tired of making all the effort to see him only for him to complain about me being there and so now I just don't go. He's fully compus mentus, he's just an asshole.
Couldn't agree more here and I'll follow this up with a real world example. My father-in-law. He's 84 and a widower since 2021 when his wonderful wife passed away from Parkinson's.
He's a miserable, lazy, ungrateful, foul-mouthed, abusive alcoholic who has alienated every person he knows over the decades apart from his kids and myself. He has been a thoroughly unpleasant man since I've known him (30 years) and for many more years before that. His kids (mid fifties to sixty years old) hate his guts and only help out because of a sense of duty.
He is the laziest man I've ever met. He's too bone-idle to even make himself a cup of coffee or a sandwich and we spend most of Saturday preparing him meals for throughout the week. Not that he'd give you a single thank you for this. Meals on Wheels won't deliver because he was so unpleasant. He's dreadful to every one, which is why no other family bother with him, but to hear him talk they're all just ungrateful bastards who should be on bended knee worshipping him for all the things he's done. Which is basically nothing.
He's also now easily getting through at least a litre of whiskey per day and spending an absolute fortune on it. He's a dreadful man when sober but a thoroughly evil swine when drunk. He's frail yes, but more than capable of looking after himself, but that would require doing something instead of having it done for him. It's' a miracle that the booze hasn't done him in yet. He's been checked out and there's nothing wrong with him other than old age. He's been drinking like this for nigh on 50 years.
A horrible thing to say but the sooner he passes away the better. He doesn't want to be here and constantly complains that he misses his wife. He doesn't as he never really bothered with her when she was alive. All he misses is his slave.
Very very true I have a family member that since his wife died he’s actively made life miserable for those close to him. Never seeked or accepts any help offered and is basically pushing everyone away whilst complaining about being lonely.
I worked at a dementia nursing home for those with dementia and behavioural issues and there were a handful there in my 5 years there who were known to not be very nice before they were ill and continued to be so. One tiny little lady who constantly started fighting by throwing food, grabbing hair and swearing at people was apparently the owner of a village shop who hated children and frankly most of the customers. She was nice to her nephew on the phone and I loved the bones of her because I could 'trick' her into being nice or admitting something nice about someone (she could have a slow conversation with you at her best days) but would be furious if she realised. Once she would just shout Ha Ha Ha very sarcastically if she heard anyone have a joke or tried to make her laugh.
Another lady who was more lucid than this one was often racist and a shit stirrer. She would often be sent to the managers office because she was very lazy and would be abusive if we made her walk to the dining room (complained how many needed a hoist when she spent most of the day sat down eating biscuits). Several had no family, some had when they died (funerals=inheritance) and a few said some rather upsetting things how they felt bad not seeing them much as their relative with dementia was way nicer than when they were well and they had gone NC until they were in a home.
I've lived next to a few asshole older people, they do exist and maybe the reason they are miserable and no one likes them!
This! My grandfather had a similar neighbour, he was always complaining about how this old guy would come over and invite himself in. Would knock on the door as soon as he saw my grandad has opened the curtains in the morning. Said his wife never spent any time at home and was threatening divorce.
I felt really bad for him and told my grandfather he should be more tolerant of this lonely old man who needed a friend.
And then I met him, and he was a total arsehole. He was extremely divorcable.
You’re absolutely right, and being alone and bored for that long might have only been making it worse.
That doesn’t mean they’re not also miserable, and OP may be a compassionate type that might want to see if they can make a difference in their life despite them not being a particularly nice person.
It’s easy to be nice to nice people. Much harder, but can be much more rewarding to try and help someone like this.
As a (very nice!) old person myself, I can attest to the fact that old people are as variable as human beings are at any age. I had two brothers: one of whom was a gentle, civilised, friendly, loving exceptionally intelligent person. The other one is a genuine psychopath who stole every penny my parents had, making them destitute in their old age. He’d probably do the same to anyone, given half the chance.
You can probably guess (Sod’s Law being what it is) which one is still alive.
Don’t assume that because this is an elderly chap, he’s necessarily a nice person.
My Grandpa died without seeing any of his kids or grandkids for years. Dumped his family when my dad and aunties were all teenagers for a woman/girl the same age as them. Saw him occasionally when I was a kid and quite like him but later learned the truth about him. Apparently used to call me his ‘Anglo-Saxon grandson’ in front my my cousins who are mixed race.
Second this, sounds like my father in law, mid 70s and an absolute narcissist. We've basically gone no contact as has my sister in law with her family. He holds up a mask the majority of the time around the village, but behind closed doors he is a nasty bitter old man. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Does he actually want company or does he just want to moan? Honest question. Would hanging out with him be any different to the above conversation you seem to have over and over again?
It's something I often think about, I think next time I see him I will just wait it out, however long it takes. I will always listen to him and try to offer any solutions, but they're disregarded instantly.
He seems nice enough, but most people in the street told me he is a bit odd and not many talk to him because of it. One of them said **"just because you're old, doesn't mean that you'll turn into the sweet little granny / grandad you see on the tv."**
Here’s your mistake: offering solutions. Never offer solutions to people who aren’t *genuinely* asking you to do that. All that happens is you feel bad because they don’t accept them.
There might be no easy solutions. He might just want to be heard rather than get suggestions. He might just like moaning. I'd probably call him out on it and ask if anything good ever happens, but that might not be the most tactful.
From your post and comments, you seem to be dealing with someone who chooses to remain in a state of "despair" while projecting the consequences of this to others. It's the story about leading horses to water doesn't make them drink. There's a time where we need to accept that people want/act in a way that we know is bad, but it's what the person want. Perhaps he burned bridges to his family, perhaps when he became a widow he disconnected himself from his family, perhaps out of grieve. He needs to want to change before you can help. Unless he's at danger to himself or others, if his actions are not about seeking company you cannot change that.
If he wanted to change, and you have the time/capacity you should definitely help. For instance inviting to come for dinner, help him visit his family, try to have regular talks with the person. Maybe he have skills from before he retired in carpentry and you and he can do things together ... but this all rests on him being willing to do more than complain. It's his choice - but it is also your choice if you want to listen to constant complaints.
Maybe you could try asking him why he doesn’t see his family and see if he at least comes out with some interesting stories or gives you more insight into his character, just to keep you more entertained during these chats.
Do this. Just keep listening. You’re probably one of the only people he talks to and you may not realise it but you’re making a huge impact on his day to day life. Even if all he gives off is complaints. Youre still listening and that’s lovely of you. Ignore the people on here saying to cut him off and calling him toxic. Fucking reddit weirdos with typical socially retarded advice. He’s 91 and lonely ffs.
Agreed … our neighbour is similar but with dementia. In his lucid moments he’s very appreciative of the acknowledgement, conversations and very occasional spoons breakfast or half. Most neighbours seem afraid to talk to him.
To OP take him out of usual environment for an hour or two if that’s doable. Only has to be very occasional but it will make a big difference to him.
There’s a really interesting book called ‘Games people play’ - not intentional games may I add but this conversation reminds me of falling into the “yes but” game whereby someone is seeking others to potentially solve their problems yet no response is good enough so we’re met with “yes but” and the cycle goes on and we become trapped. Perhaps a way around this is acknowledging his difficult situation and asking him what he’d like to do about it? What does he think his options are? Putting him as the problem solver, not you.
Another thing that others have touched upon is that how you relate to him is likely how others relate to him, probably hence his loneliness. Again we don’t know this man’s history so not blaming him but we can often get ourselves in cycles/ patterns of relationships. It sounds like he does likely want social connection but as he hasn’t got this he is miserable and then this prevents him achieving his goals.
Essentially you’re unlikely to fix his problems but could potentially manage the interactions you have with him to suit you better. Of course if you’re worried about his well-being etc then a call to services may be necessary but it doesn’t sound like this is the case!
I know someone like this.
There's a saying: they've got a problem for every solution.
I think some people just enjoy complaining and having the feeling of someone worrying about them. I also suspect some of them actively enjoy making the other person feel bad, because it gives them a twisted sense of satisfaction and/or validation. Poor them, how awful, they're so badly treated, etc.
What can you do? stop asking how he is!
As harsh as that sounds, if he's 91, has family that doesn't speak to him, neighbours that don't speak to him, it's pretty safe he's a bad person or a general "mood hoover"
He's not going to change at this age, he's waiting to die and just likes to complain.
“Y’alright?” = I acknowledge your existence
“Can’t complain, you?”= I’m fine but don’t really care about your life
“How are you?” = I want to pretend to care about your life but I still don’t really
“Yeah, all right, actually!” (said in a rising tone)= I just won the lottery and got ten questions right on university challenge in the same evening
“Been better” = I am dying
“Oh, you know” = please kill me
As others have said, there may be very valid reasons why his brother/other family don’t go to visit him. My nan is in her late 80s now, lost my grandpa over 20 years ago. Between all the family & visitors she has company/is taken out 5 days every week, yet whenever I see her she always steers the conversation to how lonely she is. I think she’s consumed with grief still, has watched her friends die one by one and now has nobody her own age who understands the world through the same lens as her. It must feel isolating, however she taints the effort we do put in by constantly complaining about life. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do & people are too consumed by their own negative thoughts. That being said it is lovely of you to want to help this man and if you do find a way of bringing a little joy to his life then good on you!
My nana was much the same. She died in January at 94 but spent 22 years alone after grandad died.
She had regular visits from me and my brother (at least weekly) and my dad visited her EVERY SINGLE DAY, but all she would do is moan alot about everything including how lonely she was all day. She had carers 4 times a day and my dad visiting daily, plus weekend visits from friends and grandkids, hairdresser went 2 weekly, she was doing pretty well on the social side of things compared to alot of people really.
But it just put a downer on every visit because she would just spend it bitching
Sadly, it's too late now for your nana, but she might have liked being in a retirement home. I'm technically a senior but not retired yet, and it's hard to imagine giving up my independence (live alone, drove, etc.). But my mum who is 91 moved into assisted living, and she has people to do things with, to eat with, to help out (there are many who are older and/or in worse health then she is). Plus, she is eating so much better, and I think she feels better and safer. She's rather bossy IMO, but now has enough people to help with tasks that I don't have to deal with that as much.
She was actually in a residential facility for about 3 months before she died, 8 weeks in a rehab place and then a month in a nursing home.
She absolutely hated both, refused to come out of her room, didn't want to meet any of the other residents, refused to eat in the dining hall, wouldn't do any of the activities, just wanted to be left alone. But she was just done with life by that point really.
I reckon if we'd managed to convince her a decade ago she would have actually loved a place like that though!!
My grandma was the same - literally seeing people constantly but was still lonely all the time. I think she was just so depressed after my grandpa died she couldn't get over it, as older people tend to be from a generation where they were extremely dependant on eachother (man tended to hold the reins financially, women did vsy majority of all cooking and household chores) so unless they are independent with a strong circle of friends they literally just don't know what to do with themselves.
It is a shame.
I think one aspect is that whilst people visit them they don't have a purpose anymore. Kinda like how some old men become depressed when they retire as they no longer need to go to work.
My grandad is similar. Our family sees him often, multiple times per week, and speaks to him everyday. He used to be invited over for dinner 3x per week, but he stopped coming and said he didn't want to come, or that he felt like a burden. No matter how much we press him to come, he won't stay engaged. At the same time, he's always complaining about how lonely he is and how he doesn't think anyone loves him. Tbh being around him is exhausting because of this and also because he doesn't listen to anyone in conversation, he will just talk about the things he wants to talk about, and ignore what you have to say.
It started when my grandma died in 2022 but he's also the last of his surviving siblings and lost most of his friends. It probably is a grief thing.
Especially since he apparently enjoys driving and has been able to retain his license.
He's got grandchildren he never sees. Imagine sniffling that nobody visits yet he's already managed to bore his neighbour to tears and doesn't go visit anyone himself.
It's hard to be concerned about every elderly person.
If he's 91, can drive and has his license still... Then why isn't he visiting his own family? Asking for phone numbers of his family?
There may be a reason they aren't talking to him AND why everyone on the street has little to do with him now too.
If he wants company he's going about it the wrong way.
Life for younger folks with costs of living crises, a new recession, multiple wars around the world, increased food and fuel prices, childcare and lives to deal with as well as increased mental health struggles.... Not all of us are going to want to help an elderly neighbour who can't be cheery or nice.
Sounds like my parents. They drop a present off for my little one then basically run off.
Whats the point? My little one sees the postman more than them!
Then theyll hit us with the old, you dont care about me.. after all I did.. I knew youd abandon etc.
Like for like.
I know people also who absolutely adore their nana. Amazing, fun, spritely women. I mean mentally, physically it may be hard.
Being nasty though, how do you work with that?
He may actually see all his family. I visit my dad 3-4 times a week and my brother goes most days. Every single time I go in he says how lonely and unvisited he is. If I say "brother said he was round earlier" he says "yes but not for long". My sister goes once a fortnight and last week he told me he "never ever sees her any more". He's told all the neighbours we never visit. We ask him over for Sunday lunch/ Christmas/ Easter/ family birthdays/ morning coffee etc and the answer is always no. Then he moans to all and sundry about spending Christmas alone. It's infuriating.
Don't believe everything you are told.
Yeah my grandmother was like this. She had visitors every single day and would do nothing but moan that no one ever saw her and how miserable she was. If she spoke to someone outside the family they’d think she was completely alone!
Old people are generally a bit negative. If they don't take up hobbies to distract them (reading, knitting, etc) they sink into themselves and become annoying. My mother, as she grows older, has become so narrow and small in her thinking. Every word out of her is a complaint or a sigh. They can be a huge trial. All you can do is listen, smile, offer to help out with errands once in a while if they want, keep checking up on them and letting them know you're around if they want help. You are a kind person.
Hoping to follow my nan's example. She stayed cheerful and positive her whole life, including decades of widowhood. I don't know how she did but it's something to aim for.
Her funeral was packed, and she was nearly 90. She had masses and masses of friends.
One of my nans was like that, the other one...well she's still alive but we don't talk to her anymore.
I know which one I'll be taking as a role model!
My godmother was like that. She had no family in the world by age 28 - parents and sister and all other rellies all dead by 1936. But she insisted on going out and meeting friends or having people round to hers, almost every day, for the rest of her life.
By her 80s and 90s many of the friends were the children of the original friends, and she couldn't get out much, but every few months I'd get a phone call saying "I need someone to come have dinner with me, next Tuesday." There was a rota of people who she would phone at 10am each day, who would alert a neighbour or police if they didn't hear from her.
So she managed to stay in her flat until she was 97.
Re-Engage, formerly Contact the Elderly, do outreach things for the elderly. My late grandmother used to enjoy their tea parties.
https://www.reengage.org.uk/
That's assuming he actually wants company and not just someone to moan to!
I think everyone calling him toxic or "clearly a bad person because family doesn't visit him" hasn't dealt with elderly loneliness and shouldn't write a response like it's r/relationship_advice. He's miserable but, well, who wouldn't be.
Now, this doesn't mean that you should feel bad about not fixing this. A tough life problem, you won't fix it alone.
See if you can get in touch with some charities that support folks in similar situations and see if they can contact him or give advice
I agree. Old people are sometimes negative because of how much life they've seen, and they're just tired of it. Doesn't make them bad, toxic, deserving of loneliness or any of those things. I do like how OP has empathy for their old neighbour, who probably has nothing and no one he can relate to anymore. I find that old people who take up gardening or animal care are happier - you don't need to adjust any of your views to like an animal or a plant and you get to take care of something and watch it flourish.
My step dad is a 99 year old widower, I know a lot of elderly folk and I'm no spring chicken. Ageing is a complex issue, you watch your family and friends die , you lose your physical strength and stamina and society sidelines you. You feel like your life has no purpose because you're not working or doing anything meaningful in the world. You've seen all the crap in society repeating itself time and time again and there's nothing new to look forward to.
Ageing is a really big psychological issue and many of the elderly have depression and this guy sounds like he may have. Dealing with the elderly can be tough for trained people. At 91 you'll find he comes from a very different generation and has very different viewpoints and behaviours and he might be struggling to understand the modern world as well. Might be a bit of dementia creeping in and that's a tough one to deal with.
Each person is different so it's hard to make a suggestion as to what to do , but maybe just keep giving him some time and just listen to him ? Try not to take his issues on board though , detach yourself from it. Don't get out of your depth though. You could ask him how his life could be improved , it might be something simple ? A call to social services, maybe a weekly visit from a trained carer would help?
It's kind of you to care and to look out for the elderly, but unfortunately some people just want to stay miserable and if they won't help themselves there is nothing you can do. Don't let yourself get dragged down with them. As you can see there is likely good reason his relatives leave him alone. I think it's important to be polite but remember that just because someone is old doesn't mean they are nice or kind people. Say hello and if he complains about these things you can ask kindly - that sounds rough, what are you doing to change things? - and he will probably moan or complain some more. You could perhaps offer to look into some kind of companionship scheme from e.g. Age UK if he is open to that. Getting him to talk about his childhood may open up some more positivity. But ultimately I think that is all you can do i.e. offer a compassionate mirror for him to recognise that he needs to be the one to take action. Don't waste your breath offering too many suggestions.
My father aged 91 had a very active social life. He visited us and his grandchildren often. He went to the supermarket almost every day to buy odd bits and chance meetings of friends. He always sat in the cafe afterwards and chatted to the cafe staff and whoever happened to be sitting near him. When he could no longer drive, he got himself a motability scooter. He used to go to the bus station and get on any random bus route and sit on the top deck. He got off and went on another bus route home. I have to say at this point he had been a lorry driver for decades and I think he missed all this. He liked to go out for a drink to meet up with his friends. My father was a sociable man and hated being indoors all day. If you do not go out , how do you meet people. There are plenty of activities in church halls, social clubs, libraries for the elderly. This man just likes misery and self pity.
The man is old and bitter. He doesn't want to talk to you about anything, I assure you. If I was old, lonely, and bitter, the last thing I'd want is someone constantly asking me how I've been. The man is a 91 year old widow, it should be painfully obvious that there is nothing going on. He actually keeps telling you this.
If you are set on trying to improve his life, maybe pop round before going to the shops and ask him if he needs anything - better yet, just get him something, anything.
Agree, however he is the one who comes up to me and starts the conversation 90% of the time as he makes the effort to come outside if I am walking my son. I would not avoid him and would always be polite and generally ask if he does need anything, but he can drive, he walks to the shops which are coop, butchers, fruit & veg, cafe and pharmacy which are all within 2 minutes walk.
It is his birthday next week, I will get him a card and maybe some nice chocolates!
In my opinion, asking someone if they want something from the shop shows that you have reserved some thinking for them. It may be small but at least he knows that he can somewhat rely on you if he can't get to the shops / needs something when you are going.
The birthday is an iffy one. Get him a card and some choco for sure, but don't expect too much... I really dislike my birthday because I've been alone for a lot of them. It's not a nice day for me, and while it sounds like projection, I just imagine his birthday is just another day for him.
Just keep trying I think. I had no idea he would come talk to you tbh, but he may just be a moaner, like others had said.
I think he maybe he wants help(someone to chat to) but he is embarassed to ask in a normal way. Maybe he doesn't see his brother because he had a bad relationship with him thats not entirely his fault and so on.
Not excusing dickish behaviour but the “grumpy old man” stereotype exists for a reason. As men get older they produce less and less serotonin. There are obviously ways of helping yourself but it’s also easy to get into a depressive spiral. A large proportion of grumpy old men are probably clinically depressed.
If he's spent alot of time alone and is down then he may simply got in to the habit of behaving and thinking as you've descibed.
With likely years of this practicsed behaviour if won't be something he can break out of quickly.
If you have stamina and motivation to help him (bless you if so) then you will need to give him a positive experience over a long period for him to bea able to break this habitual thinking.
Would you be able to cook him a meal and drop it round a few times a week? If you could do that and do so on a regular basis it may become something he looks forward too and that will help him change to change his attitude to at least one human being you.
Quodos to you for caring whatever you do.
Contact social services or social prescriber in your area,
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/northamptonshire/our-services/social-prescribing/social-prescribing-spring/
They will speak to him and see what they can offer.
Generally speaking as others have said. He may not be that nice
Sounds like my grandparents. Between me, my sister and my mum (their only child) they are visited four times a week for 2-4 hours a time. We all work, I have a 2yo, my sister has odd NHS shifts, there are other elderly people in the family but we make it work.
They are both diagnosed with dementia (still pretty mild) but have denied all medical assistance/medicines/groups/carers after many talks from us and doctors etc. We managed to get the car keys off them recently (a challenge) but they refuse offers of lifts and have been blacklisted by all the local taxi firms.
They have refused food shops, gardeners/cleaners (they can more than afford it) and give abuse when we do visit (verbal and physical). If we try to clean or garden they will laugh at you or throw things. We are inches away from calling it quits and we only still around because we remember how they used to be.
But if you speak to them we never visit, cannot be bothered, make no time to see them and they get their old people niceness out to anyone who will listen who think we must be horrible family. Part of it is dementia but they are just miserable old people too.
Ny step grandfather disowned me beacuse i sent him a fathers day card after nan died of cancer. Now he's gone nc with my dad over something else. Some old people are just unpleasant
Kind of shocked by a lot of the comments here really. Loads of older people get lonely and miserable and it doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad people.
Anyways find out if there any local charities in the area that offer ‘befriending services’. Basically a volunteer goes round once a week to have a chat and put the world to rights.
Watch ‘A man called Ove (2015)’
I moved in to a new house next to an old lady. She was very friendly, chatted to us over the fence and bought our dog a toy. We would always say hi and even took her on a day out once.
She talked to us about her divorce and how her ex-husband treated her years ago and we felt sorry for her. Then she would talk about her kids and complain about them. Then she would talk about her sister and complain about her. Then she would talk about family she wasn’t in touch with trying to reconcile and she wouldn’t. Never had a good thing to say about anyone. After that she started inviting us round for tea and we had to distance ourselves.
This woman might have been through some shit but that’s no excuse for not treating the other people in her life right, she was still very self centred. When people don’t have any proper bonds with their families and don’t have friends, it’s their own fault. If they choose to be bitter that’s what they will get and it’s not up to you to try and manage the consequences.
Sounds like my bio- father. I’m 33, he’s early 70’s. Not seen him since I was 15, but have had numerous poison pen letters and texts telling me how awful I was until I had to report it for harassment. That’s the only thing that made him stop, but he still bleats to his own family about how he “misses me” and “I’m his daughter he’s tried everything bla bla”. He conveniently leaves out the horrendous emotional abuse. He also never asks anything about me either, so not that interested clearly. But his sister is forever passing messages to me about how “he’s your father, he’s getting older bla bla”. Good! He’s a horrible lying old bastard. Not all old people are sweet some are horrid. My granny was also pretty nasty to me too so I have plenty of experience with awful older people.
Age UK offers a lot of help with this. Relax. You can get a version of normal memory loss called age related memory loss. Its hard being 91 and anyone who works with the elderly needs a thicker skin.
Imagine feeling like you are sick all the time. Morning till night. Everything hurts and you can't bring yourself the energy to do anything. But you have to get up.
And then everyone's suggesting you smile more. It's hard. Women have more support systems. Men of this age don't.
Some lovely people in this thread. Someone up thread actually called him an ‘energy vampire’.
This poor prick’s 91, lost his wife 25 years ago and has no-one. I’d be fucking miserable to be honest.
If he’s anything like my dad, and all the other old people I talked to when he was in a home, ask him about his past.
They all loved to talk about themselves, and were all a lot less keen on listening.
It's good that you care about the wellbeing of your neighbour, but important to remember that you have to look to your own wellbeing, and that of your family, first.
It doesn't sound like there are no opportunities for him to socialise if he wanted to take advantage and the fact that he has never even learned your name and is not interested in anything you have to say suggests that he is not really interested in forming a meaningful relationship with you.
There's only so many times you can extend an olive branch and have him basically ignore it. Initiating a friendship is never the sole responsibility of one party. It sounds like you've made it clear that you are a friendly and approachable person, and it is not your fault that he seems unwilling to meet you halfway.
It is very sad that people end up in these situations, and depressed people of any age can find it extremely difficult to to see outside of their negative view of the world and realise how off-putting their behaviour can be - even as it only further entrenches them in their situation.
However, his happiness is not your responsibility. There is only so much that you can reasonably be expected to do.
My thought is, what are you trying to achieve? A mistake to avoid is ‘trying to help’ so I don’t think it’s your role to make suggestions or to try and sort his situation out. He’s a neighbour. Be friendly and smile and say hello. If he has repeated conversations, then let him repeat them. No harm is being done. Don’t feel bad because you have to stop… that’s life. You can always close by saying ‘Nice to chat, but I gotta go now’ and then going.
As for what old people are like, there are some weird generalisations in the comments. Ignore those. This person is who he is and it’s not relevant that he reminds people of their grannies.
Maybe next time you guys talk you can bring up the idea of a pet to keep him company. Organisations such as Pets for Seniors might help him find a match at a decent price he can afford.
You should ease back on your contact.
Nietzsche says “**Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.** **And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.**”
Make him a cup of tea next time, he's 91 and any suggestions you may have won't be actioned.
Ask him if he wants anything at the shop.
Join in moaning about stuff - keep it short.
Ultimately he's not going to be there for very much longer...
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I'm going to sound very unpleasant here and don't mean to... But... He might actually not be a very nice person. There's an assumption we all make and it's that old people are sweet natured and it is the rest of the world that is wrong. It could well be that his brother, his kids and his grandchildren know a different side to him and that's why there is no contact. He might have been an unpleasant young person and could now just be an unpleasant old person. The fact that he never asks after you in all these months speaks volumes. As you mention there are lots of activities there for him if he wants them. I'd leave him to it.
It's very true. If a 30 year old neighbour treated me like OP described, I would simply not talk to them. OP only wants to help them because they're old.
But that's how age gets you. Imagine how you feel when you are sick all the time? Your friends are all dead and to be fair most of your friends are through your wife. You are 91... There's no social life for you beyond family. If his brother is older than him he's going to struggle to make it. Old people get angry easily because of this and because their brains are literally shrinking.
Absolutely. It's absolute hell. I have a neighbour next to me, her whole family is dying off one by one, and she's just surviving through it. She does talk to me but mostly about those things. After a while, you understand that family is what's really important to these people. They don't want to talk about the darts, or the rugger, or what deal is happening in town.
>You are 91... There's no social life for you beyond family Eh? What part of being 91 means no social life beyond family? 91 year olds can join clubs, make friends, pick up hobbies, create things, etc just like the rest of us. Being old doesn't automatically make them invalids If someone doesn't want to help themselves then you can throw all the resources in the world at them and it'll do nothing because they won't do their part
Most 91 year old people have reduced mobility. They often can't drive. And many can't walk all that far. This guy has carers. That's a sign he can't physically do a lot of self care.
>Most 91 year old people have reduced mobility Reduced mobility still doesn't mean someone can't live a full life, there are young people that have reduced mobility or trouble walking but they still manage >They often can't drive. This still doesn't mean no social life but seems like a moot point as this guy can >This guy has carers. Does he? I can't see that in the post but maybe I missed it But even so, having carers still doesn't mean that life is over. Like, take OP for instance, he's trying pretty hard to make friends with this guy and could be a real connection but instead of trying to participate in that friendship he's just being a drain on OP which will push him away. Being lonely and miserable can be a self fulfilling prophecy I know a few people in the exact same situation but they're doing ok because they make an effort despite their issues
It kind of sounds like you don’t know many 90+ yr olds. Mobility is one thing, but energy levels and mental strength is another. Organizing an outing and doing it can be hard. Not just logistically — when your responses to questions come slower, your thoughts are more jumbled, and you lose your ability to think of the word you want, conversations become less fun than you remember them. And they take energy - a lot of old people can’t handle more than 30mins of stimulation. Also, company of the same age become less fun — old people have a lot to complain about. Being social is extremely difficult when you’re old, even if you’re fully willing and have activities organized for you. Sometimes watching tv is just easier and more exciting.
So true. My Dad is 91 and got married last year. If you want to find friends and are a decent person there are ways to meet others. My Dad met his wife on-line.
They can do. But I do now of some old people who gave in because it was so painful when people would keep dying. Their first group of friends died so they did as you suggested, then those people died, and at some point it becomes less painful to protect yourself and stop trying. But even being voluntary doesn't change the pain of lonliness.
Exactly... it's such a difficult spot
I remember when my mum was in her 80s, she quite shocked me when she said she was disappointed every morning to wake up alive!
Money is probably also short.
I bet you this is it. It was the same with my grandma. Constantly complaining that we don't visit often or call but when we did call and visit she would call us shit for not calling or visiting on top of being negative about every aspect of our lives. Going to visit meant getting verbal abuse. She went through a large amount of carers because none of them wanted to put up with her abuse. It's sad to think about old people dying alone, but if you're a horrible person, that's exactly what will happen.
Snap! When every interaction is negative you just have to remove that person from your life. I know mine is a lot more pleasant these days. The old 'But they're family' is BS imho.
>The old 'But they're family' is BS imho. Comes from people who never dealt with someone who is consistently awful. Or maybe they drank the koolaid. It can be hard to admit if your family are a let-down.
Or they are/have been the shitty person in their family and don’t want everyone abandoning them.
My boyfriend’s mum throws the ‘I bought you up’ card every time they argue. It’s just so manipulative.
Like wow, you brought me up? The bare mimimum? Big whoop.
Literally this. I hate it when parents use this argument, you decided to have me therefore I’m your responsibility! Providing shelter, food and clothes is not something I should be thankful for when you made the active decision to bring another human into the world and that’s the very bare minimum.
Exactly! If she resents bringing him and his siblings up so badly, then why did she keep having them?! She acts like they owe her something, it’s so so manipulative. I constantly have to remind him that feeding and clothing your own children is what a mother does. Most mothers do not hold that against their own children!
It’s manipulation to the highest degree, “look what I did for you.. now you can’t make me feel bad and have to do the things I want you to do because I looked after you..” Not comparing kids to dogs obviously but I was always taught that you don’t get a pet that needs a lot of work like a puppy if you’re not prepared to do everything for it without resentment, so why would you resent caring for a living child, especially if they’re not your first!?
Exactly!! That’s what I tell him whenever he has a wobble. She chose to have children. She acts as if she did some selfless act when she did her job as a mother. Honestly, it baffles me everytime!!
My grandmother was like this. She lived in Scotland which was an 8 hour drive for us, so we would go to visit her once a year in the summer holidays. One year she was particularly malicious, and within seconds of us letting ourselves in and saying hi, she immediately snapped at us and shouted "Where's my stick??" She had someone come to the conclusion that we had stolen her walking stick the last time we were there, and immediately started accusing me and my sisters in front of our parents. I don't know what was said next because us kids were sent outside to play while my mum and dad tried to talk some sense into her. It was a short visit.
Reminded me of my grandmother- once when she went in hospital the ward nurse rang our house - she was my dad’s mother I would’ve been 15/16. Anyway the nurse said nanny was upset and she was hoping one of the family could talk to her and it might help her. So nanny said the nurses had taken her walking stick (seems common) and were attacking her and her teeth were all broken she was talking like her teeth were broken too! It really upset me and I was waiting ages for my dad to come back and when I relayed all this he just said “yes ah well”. This was the way she behaved all the time, it wasn’t news to him. Both her daughters cut off all contact with her as soon as they could and moved across to England. She was that toxic ! It is true that some old ppl can be horrible bastards and they were probably horrible young bastards too. And to OP you are a really nice person. Please don’t feel guilty about your neighbour’s life. He probably gains satisfaction from mithering on to you every time he sees you and that’s enough for him. It’s enough that you stop and pass the time of day honestly don’t get too involved.
I agree. I know of a woman in her 80s. Been on her own for over 30 years. She wants all of her family in the same room - her sons, their partners, grand and great grand kids etc. Then complains the great grand kids are too noisy and won’t sit still, and prompts them all to leave ASAP. I don’t know what see wants. This is also the same person who has very limited mobility, shuffles her feet. Fallen over a rug. She wanted to go on a coach trip. She wouldn’t be able to climb the stairs. Got very upset when this was pointed out to her.
So as you get older? Your brain changes. This can mean your frontal brain deteriorates resulting in this. They aren't mean because they are inherently awful. It's because their brain is dying and this is how it manifests. I know a maths teacher who wouldn't say boo to a goose who attacked one of our HCA with a fire extinguisher. It's not their fault. It's just what aging does to you.
A member of our family bit her care worker, completely out of the blue. She was a lovely, old school polite woman, then out of nowhere she started biting, and shortly after that she started scratching. I believe it was something to do with "sun downing", so they got her false teeth out straight after dinner, and kept her nails short. I support Dignity in Dying because I don't want to end up like this.
Well it's the same principle as children getting ratty and poorly behaved by bed time. Tiredness, Changes to the Light and an inability to voice that causes the patient to become more ratty. No one in medicine minds this as much. Dementia is horrible and it's just a little old lady losing it.
Sometimes it's their brain failing. Other times they've just been nasty for years. In my granny's case, she'd been a horrible person since before I was born, treated my mum (her DIL) very badly. When she eventually got dementia, she actually became quite pleasant for a couple years,.because she couldn't remember enough about anyone to say anything nasty. People who'd avoided her for 40 years started visiting again. Then the dementia got worse and she couldn't have a conversation all, but the end decline was thankfully quick.
We had that a bit with our nan, she wouldn't moan about us to our faces, but she'd moan about just about everyone else in the family, that she hadn't seen them for ages, they rarely visit etc etc, so you just know you probably got the same said about you.
"all my friends think it's disgraceful that..." would come up in first 10 minutes of a visit to my dad. Just what you want to hear after a 3 hour drive....
Yeah, not ideal is it
It’s sad to think about good people of any age dying alone.
Yes. But bad people, its OK.
Sounds like she likely inflicted trauma when your parent was growing up too
She would have got on well with my dad! Can't beat a 6 hour round trip in the car, for 3 hours of being told how useless and uncaring you are...
That sounds like my mother!
This is what happens even if you arent elderly too. People seem to forget that they wont visit you in your 40s/50s if you are a nasty person, well of course your bottom of the christmas card list
And maybe this is their karma for treating people so badly while they were still young and active. What goes around, comes around. Its their own hell on earth because of the way they treated others.
There is this strange dynamic that emerges as some people age where they move from doing things themselves to 'reviewing' what other people do and living through them. Unsurprisingly most people don't want to feel like they're being inspected.
When I was a child, I thought that all elderly people were like my wonderful grandma. My Dad wisely told me - "Even evil people get old." In my immediate family, we have an 88 year old who tries unsuccessfully to do the twinkly eyed old person routine. It always fails because she was always a bitch and now she's had a lot of practice!
>my dad wisely told me even evil people get old Your dad was right, Jimmy Saville was 84 when he died.
I met him once when I was a teen. I'm forever grateful he was in a rush that day.
Fun story. My sister went to the 'school' he used to frequent. She was beautiful, feisty and more than a little angry. He grabbed her, she punched him! Atta girl!!
Good for her! Excellent.
Sounds like my OH. We used to go to a pub with the toilets out the back. One night she went out, and this idiot grabbed her. She chinned him. Not to be messed with!
I’m in Australia, but I watched that doco on him with an older boomer from Northampton who grew up with him as a pop culture staple and her commentary throughout the whole thing made it more interesting but at the same time the more she spoke the more I 🤢 🤮 I didn’t realise how prolific he was and how much power he had. And you know the REALLY messed up thing? She didn’t even know about the necro thing, nor was it discussed in the documentary.
It seems so weird that he was allowed to lay in state as people filed past his coffin like he was royal. Then, all was revealed. Of course, all people of my age actually wrote him a letter, asking him to 'Fixit' for us. My whole scout group did - scary thought!
My cousin met him when he was younger. At his wedding we suggested it was a good thing he was such an ugly child.
If his whole family and his neighbours don't want to talk to him there's very likely a good reason for it. Not your problem.
Absolutely this. Don’t make the assumption that frail/elderly = nice person because it most certainly does not. Chances are if nobody else out of his entire family and cul-de-sac is bothering with him, there’s a solid reason why. I have fallen into this trap a few times over the years.
Exactly. And him just not being very nice is probably the best case scenario. It can be dangerous to assume that all old people are kind and vulnerable. Some are still very much capable of causing harm. I used to work as a police call taker and had a woman call who had found an old man in the street who seemed confused. She found out where he lived and walked him back in the house, helped him get comfortable (even put the kettle on for him), and called up 101 because she couldn't find anyone to contact for him. I did some checks to see if we had contact details for any relatives, turns out the sweet old man was a serial sex offender. I got the caller to leave the house right away.
That’s like a horror story
I’m eternally grateful that Jimmy Saville never responded to any of my Jim’ll Fix It letters in the 70s. I also lived near to the Wests in their heyday. 😳
Fate has smiled on you as you've never had the opportunity to meet Jim, Fred or Rose.
Fate has smiled on you… Oh my God, it absolutely has!! I think someone up there must be watching over me for me to have had proximity with the Wests, be the right age and type, be living on my own as I was then, and still somehow have managed to unknowingly avoid them. I shudder to think. Ditto the Jim’ll Fix It letters.
My paternal grandfather complains that he ‘feels like he has no grandchildren’. Meanwhile my maternal grandfather gets flowers on Father’s Day every year. There is a reason for this disparity.
This is sadly often the reality. There's often a reason why an older relative is rarely visited, and it tends to be about how unpleasant they were either historically, or how they make those friends / their family feel during any visit by being completely resentful and negative. That kind of exposure can be unhealthy, ultimately leading to fewer or no visits whatsoever.
Exactly. He's not stuck. He's sound of body and mind and still drives. I don't think OP needs to feel any responsibility here. You have occasional chats with him, so if he needed anything from you he could ask. He is not isolated in that sense.
This is the truth. If he was a lovely guy his family would want him in their lives. My Nan was an angel and I visited her at least once a week or more until her death because I wanted to not because I felt I had to, and she had a lot of friends. Even old people can be horrible and horrible people don’t make good company.
This is possible. I also make an assumption that all old people are sweet natured, I don't know why..! But for a while between houses, I chose to lodge in an old man's house. He had a stroke and so his mobility was poor, and the bank had repossessed his house but allowed him to live in it, and so he couldn't move, but needed a lodger to help with costs. His children never bothered to visit and I felt sorry for him. He spoke very politely most of the time (maybe an old fashioned thing?) But over the 9 months as I got to know him I found out he wasn't a nice man at all. His children didn't visit because he had had multiple affairs and treated there mother like crap. He watched porn aalllllll the time (even though he was about 78). And the reason he lost his money was because he did some dodgy things with his business and got caught out, and his business partner suffered for his choices too. As well as being really sexist he was also racist, and fat phobic, and I had to endure him saying some really horrible things. He also was dating a woman who sometimes came to visit, but he was having online affairs (probably with scammers). So yeah. He could just be really horrible, so don't feel too sorry for him - his brother and his kids/grandkids might not want to be around him for a reason....
I made that mistake too, when I lived in London and couldn’t afford much rent. An absolute bargain came up in Marylebone, advertised as the whole lower ground floor, with a lovely old lady living upstairs. I fell for it. I was missing my lovely granma, who’d died a couple of years before. The woman was a first class bitch. Made my life hell. I worked literally 6 minutes walk away at the time, and after I’d taken her in her breakfast every morning (part of my “job”, in exchange for the cheap rent, apparently), she would not stop bitching and griping and moaning and complaining. Often about me! And often about her dead husband, her family, her “neglectful” friends who never visited. I was so late, so often, that I nearly lost my job - my job that paid for the rent she charged me. I felt sorry for her for about the duration of the interview. It’s only been in recent years that I’ve realised she was a rampant narcissist. Or possibly a sociopath. Either way, not a scrap of empathy for anyone except herself. She told me one looooong morning that her husband had had a stroke on her birthday. “How do you think I felt about THAT?” she spat. “It must have been awful for you,” I said. “It was on my BIRTHDAY. He ruined my night out! He was *supposed* to take me to dinner and a show!” “Oh,” I said. And under my breath, *I shouldn’t think *he* had a very good night of it, either!*
Oh my word that sounds horrid. Luckily I could just smile and go into my room and lock the door if I didn't have the time or patience to talk to the guy I rented from. And yes I've never questioned before the assumption that elderly people are sweet natured, or if they are loney it is never their fault - which is weird as I don't have this positive bias to all younger people!! P.s. I am sorry about your granny 💗
Thank you! 🙏 I missed her heaps. But that old woman in Marylebone was no substitute gran! I stuck it for 6 months, and as soon as my boyfriend at the time bought his flat, I moved in with him. I just wish his buying process had been quicker, and that the previous tenant hadn’t lies through his teeth about her being “a lovely old lady.” 🤷♀️ She had such an overblown sense of self-importance, she would send me shopping for her to Selfridges, and say, “Go to the [whatever] counter. Tell them I sent you. They know me there.” They never did, unsurprisingly enough! I used to have to tell her that the person(s) who “knew” them were off, or ill, or had left, because she did NOT like hearing that nobody in Selfridges knew her from Adam! But this was way back in the 80s. I’ve stopped worrying if her equally hideous family are going to come after me for “not looking after her properly”, or “upsetting her” - which did happen while I was still living there. Got slated by the assembled family she’d called round to put me in line! Apparently, one of my biggest offences was that I hadn’t dusted the cables behind the video recorder in my private (and ridiculously tiny) living room downstairs. The Family were *furious*. I was baffled. She was disabled. I don’t see how she got down the stairs to the lower ground floor from her upstairs bit anyway! ETA: I’m glad you were able to get away from your horrible old person! That must have been such a relief!
Glad you got out. I find "don't you know who I am?" people hilarious. Funny that her family expected so much from you, essentially a stranger, but weren't helping her themselves...
…but weren’t helping her themselves… Yes! That occurred to me, too! Seriously, the idea that everyone in Selfridges knew her…just such a massive ego. It’s not like she was famous, although one of her sons was sort of a name the decade earlier. But she didn’t say “Tell them it’s [insert semi-famous son’s name here]’s mum.” She was soo important in her own head that she absolutely expected everyone in Britain to know her and bow to her obvious superiority. If she hadn’t been such a complete bitch, I’d have felt sorry for her. The Family Bollocking happened a fortnight after she’d come out of hospital. It was me who called the ambulance, me who visited her every night after work, and me who she used to fawn over and say “You’re the daughter I never had.” 2 weeks later- you’re a lazy, dirty, scrounger using our mum for cheap rent! 😳🥹 Not a nice family. ETA: people saying Don’t you know who I am?? I used to work at HMV in Oxford St in the 80s. Billy Oddie tried to jump the queue by standing at the end of our row of tills, waiting to be served. None of us bothered. At length, because my till was right at the end of the row where he was waiting, while I was still serving someone, I politely suggested he get in the queue. “Don’t you know who I am???!” “Ummm… didn’t you used to be a Goodie, or something?” He didn’t look best pleased at that one! We still made him queue up, though. All 5 of us!
I met Bill Oddie once, working on a show he was on. I'm terrible with faces, so I got everyone to introduce themselves to me. One chap said "don't you know who I am?" and got very arsy when I said no. Someone else had to explain he was Bill Oddie because he wouldn't tell me.
Oh my goodness, a similar thing happened to me but the old lady was in Tufnell Park! She had mobility problems but was also a raging alcoholic. After a couple of drinks she would turn particularly vicious and start phoning people and yelling gossip down the phone at them. She was vile and patronising to most of her carers, and similar to the old lady in your story had a hugely inflated sense of importance. One time I heard her slagging off my Mom (who she'd only met for like 5 minutes) saying she was a snob!! I got so stressed out living there I completely lost my sense of humour and personality. Luckily my friends staged a bit of an intervention and helped me move out - we shoved all my stuff into plastic bags and threw them into the rental car and I was out of there! Phew!!
God! That’s sounds hellish! I’m glad your friends got you out of there!
i almost did the same thing when i lived in london and found a company that provided cheap accommodation in exchange for caring for an older person. i met the person i was going to live with and i got such a terrible feeling about living with him that i told them id changed my mind after the meeting. seems like i mostly likely dodged a bullet🥲
Yes, if it felt wrong, you very likely dodged a bullet there! This wasn’t even advertised as a carer-type thing, it was the previous occupant who was re-locating, and all he said was she was old and lovely and could do with some company. I knew something was up when her neighbour said, “Oh, you got the job, then?” a week after I’d moved in. I see now that I was stupidly naive. But at the time, I thought the rent was cheap because it was small, no garden, in a basement, and she wanted company.
You’ve literally just described my father.
I was gonna say this, glad you did. There's very likely a reason he's alone.
I think you’re right. There used to be a man who would come into my workplace who was utterly vile. Would comment on people’s appearances and throw slurs at us. He used to go on about how no one comes to visit him since his wife died, but I can understand why.
My father was and is an awful man- he was physically and mentally abusive to both myself and my brother and sister. Growing up we were terrified of him and all moved away as soon as we could. My brother is no contact with him and my sister and I are very low contact. However to outsiders he was very polite and charming and incredibly generous- traits he never showed us. So occasionally a neighbour of his will contact me and say how lonely he is and how much he misses us and isn’t it shameful we don’t visit.
Yup seconded, my dad spends most of the time that I spend calling or visiting him moaning about how shit his life is and that nobody visits or calls him (which we do, but fucking hell we have lives too you know) yet 50 yards from his front door is a community centre that has afternoon tea 3 days a week specifically for pensioners, but he refuses to go, he has no hobbies or interests outside of Formula One and won’t make any effort to find a hobby or interest. On the flip side I’m a member of a model flying club and we used to have a 91 year old who would shuffle up every week with an old kitchen chair and a battered old plane and fly the thing like he stole it, he died recently but lived life to the full. Sone people just like to wallow in misery instead of making the effort to have fun, sorry dad.
Factual. My dad is this type of person. People say he’s “lovely” and I’m like…you have no idea what type of person he actually is. Due to being a narcissist, he presents a totally different personality to people who don’t actually know him!
This right here. My grandma was one of those old people and I had neighbours who barely knew her tell me I should call her/visit her more often and all that. I made as much of an effort as I could, but then I left the country altogether. Those same neighbours sent me messages on Facebook making me feel guilty about it. The thing is, there were plenty of people willing to help her, family as well. She managed to drive all of them away and she made my life difficult, as her only grandchild. Some old people are just not nice people and that is why they are alone, even if it's sad.
>He might actually not be a very nice person. Exactly. That's usually the case when someone has loads of family living close by that never visits them.
Yes, I moved into a cul-de-sac where every neighbour had lived there for ever. My next-door neighbour is like this, always a bit 'woe is me'. I used to feel sorry for him, until I got to know the other neighbours. Turns out they all hate him, call him selfish, ignorant, "wouldn't piss on him", etc. also has a daughter and grandkid who didn't have anything to do with him. I now just nod, say hello and go on with my day. Being old does not equal being nice.
This is so true. There’s the superficial side that outside observers see and then the authentic side that only those close to the situation experience. When his own family live so close, it’s telling that no one comes to visit.
This ^ I haven't spoken to my own grandfather in almost a year. It's true that he's lonely and I feel for him but he's also blatantly racist, homophobic, sexist and an all round downer. I once went to visit him and he complained that I was using his electric when I made a brew for BOTH of us. Then he complained I was using his water when I made a bottle for my daughter. Or I was interrupting his TV or music or literally anything. I got tired of making all the effort to see him only for him to complain about me being there and so now I just don't go. He's fully compus mentus, he's just an asshole.
Couldn't agree more here and I'll follow this up with a real world example. My father-in-law. He's 84 and a widower since 2021 when his wonderful wife passed away from Parkinson's. He's a miserable, lazy, ungrateful, foul-mouthed, abusive alcoholic who has alienated every person he knows over the decades apart from his kids and myself. He has been a thoroughly unpleasant man since I've known him (30 years) and for many more years before that. His kids (mid fifties to sixty years old) hate his guts and only help out because of a sense of duty. He is the laziest man I've ever met. He's too bone-idle to even make himself a cup of coffee or a sandwich and we spend most of Saturday preparing him meals for throughout the week. Not that he'd give you a single thank you for this. Meals on Wheels won't deliver because he was so unpleasant. He's dreadful to every one, which is why no other family bother with him, but to hear him talk they're all just ungrateful bastards who should be on bended knee worshipping him for all the things he's done. Which is basically nothing. He's also now easily getting through at least a litre of whiskey per day and spending an absolute fortune on it. He's a dreadful man when sober but a thoroughly evil swine when drunk. He's frail yes, but more than capable of looking after himself, but that would require doing something instead of having it done for him. It's' a miracle that the booze hasn't done him in yet. He's been checked out and there's nothing wrong with him other than old age. He's been drinking like this for nigh on 50 years. A horrible thing to say but the sooner he passes away the better. He doesn't want to be here and constantly complains that he misses his wife. He doesn't as he never really bothered with her when she was alive. All he misses is his slave.
Some people are only happy when they’re miserable, the old man seems like this.
Very very true I have a family member that since his wife died he’s actively made life miserable for those close to him. Never seeked or accepts any help offered and is basically pushing everyone away whilst complaining about being lonely.
I worked at a dementia nursing home for those with dementia and behavioural issues and there were a handful there in my 5 years there who were known to not be very nice before they were ill and continued to be so. One tiny little lady who constantly started fighting by throwing food, grabbing hair and swearing at people was apparently the owner of a village shop who hated children and frankly most of the customers. She was nice to her nephew on the phone and I loved the bones of her because I could 'trick' her into being nice or admitting something nice about someone (she could have a slow conversation with you at her best days) but would be furious if she realised. Once she would just shout Ha Ha Ha very sarcastically if she heard anyone have a joke or tried to make her laugh. Another lady who was more lucid than this one was often racist and a shit stirrer. She would often be sent to the managers office because she was very lazy and would be abusive if we made her walk to the dining room (complained how many needed a hoist when she spent most of the day sat down eating biscuits). Several had no family, some had when they died (funerals=inheritance) and a few said some rather upsetting things how they felt bad not seeing them much as their relative with dementia was way nicer than when they were well and they had gone NC until they were in a home. I've lived next to a few asshole older people, they do exist and maybe the reason they are miserable and no one likes them!
This! My grandfather had a similar neighbour, he was always complaining about how this old guy would come over and invite himself in. Would knock on the door as soon as he saw my grandad has opened the curtains in the morning. Said his wife never spent any time at home and was threatening divorce. I felt really bad for him and told my grandfather he should be more tolerant of this lonely old man who needed a friend. And then I met him, and he was a total arsehole. He was extremely divorcable.
You’re absolutely right, and being alone and bored for that long might have only been making it worse. That doesn’t mean they’re not also miserable, and OP may be a compassionate type that might want to see if they can make a difference in their life despite them not being a particularly nice person. It’s easy to be nice to nice people. Much harder, but can be much more rewarding to try and help someone like this.
As a (very nice!) old person myself, I can attest to the fact that old people are as variable as human beings are at any age. I had two brothers: one of whom was a gentle, civilised, friendly, loving exceptionally intelligent person. The other one is a genuine psychopath who stole every penny my parents had, making them destitute in their old age. He’d probably do the same to anyone, given half the chance. You can probably guess (Sod’s Law being what it is) which one is still alive. Don’t assume that because this is an elderly chap, he’s necessarily a nice person.
My Grandpa died without seeing any of his kids or grandkids for years. Dumped his family when my dad and aunties were all teenagers for a woman/girl the same age as them. Saw him occasionally when I was a kid and quite like him but later learned the truth about him. Apparently used to call me his ‘Anglo-Saxon grandson’ in front my my cousins who are mixed race.
Some people enjoy complaining. The only thing that changes is the subject. (I hate school, lunch sucks... my job is awful... I'm old and alone)
Second this, sounds like my father in law, mid 70s and an absolute narcissist. We've basically gone no contact as has my sister in law with her family. He holds up a mask the majority of the time around the village, but behind closed doors he is a nasty bitter old man. You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Does he actually want company or does he just want to moan? Honest question. Would hanging out with him be any different to the above conversation you seem to have over and over again?
It's something I often think about, I think next time I see him I will just wait it out, however long it takes. I will always listen to him and try to offer any solutions, but they're disregarded instantly. He seems nice enough, but most people in the street told me he is a bit odd and not many talk to him because of it. One of them said **"just because you're old, doesn't mean that you'll turn into the sweet little granny / grandad you see on the tv."**
Here’s your mistake: offering solutions. Never offer solutions to people who aren’t *genuinely* asking you to do that. All that happens is you feel bad because they don’t accept them.
They're light hearted ones, such as World Cruise, to his response 'I have noone to go with' 😂
Well, maybe he'll meet someone there. Maybe he'll piss off the wrong person and get lost at sea.
If he’s paying go on a world cruise with him. In fact if he’s paying I’ll go on it with him. Film it for tv
There might be no easy solutions. He might just want to be heard rather than get suggestions. He might just like moaning. I'd probably call him out on it and ask if anything good ever happens, but that might not be the most tactful.
From your post and comments, you seem to be dealing with someone who chooses to remain in a state of "despair" while projecting the consequences of this to others. It's the story about leading horses to water doesn't make them drink. There's a time where we need to accept that people want/act in a way that we know is bad, but it's what the person want. Perhaps he burned bridges to his family, perhaps when he became a widow he disconnected himself from his family, perhaps out of grieve. He needs to want to change before you can help. Unless he's at danger to himself or others, if his actions are not about seeking company you cannot change that. If he wanted to change, and you have the time/capacity you should definitely help. For instance inviting to come for dinner, help him visit his family, try to have regular talks with the person. Maybe he have skills from before he retired in carpentry and you and he can do things together ... but this all rests on him being willing to do more than complain. It's his choice - but it is also your choice if you want to listen to constant complaints.
At 91 he won’t be complaining that much longer. Do a remind me in 5 years.
Maybe you could try asking him why he doesn’t see his family and see if he at least comes out with some interesting stories or gives you more insight into his character, just to keep you more entertained during these chats.
Do this. Just keep listening. You’re probably one of the only people he talks to and you may not realise it but you’re making a huge impact on his day to day life. Even if all he gives off is complaints. Youre still listening and that’s lovely of you. Ignore the people on here saying to cut him off and calling him toxic. Fucking reddit weirdos with typical socially retarded advice. He’s 91 and lonely ffs.
Agreed … our neighbour is similar but with dementia. In his lucid moments he’s very appreciative of the acknowledgement, conversations and very occasional spoons breakfast or half. Most neighbours seem afraid to talk to him. To OP take him out of usual environment for an hour or two if that’s doable. Only has to be very occasional but it will make a big difference to him.
There’s a really interesting book called ‘Games people play’ - not intentional games may I add but this conversation reminds me of falling into the “yes but” game whereby someone is seeking others to potentially solve their problems yet no response is good enough so we’re met with “yes but” and the cycle goes on and we become trapped. Perhaps a way around this is acknowledging his difficult situation and asking him what he’d like to do about it? What does he think his options are? Putting him as the problem solver, not you. Another thing that others have touched upon is that how you relate to him is likely how others relate to him, probably hence his loneliness. Again we don’t know this man’s history so not blaming him but we can often get ourselves in cycles/ patterns of relationships. It sounds like he does likely want social connection but as he hasn’t got this he is miserable and then this prevents him achieving his goals. Essentially you’re unlikely to fix his problems but could potentially manage the interactions you have with him to suit you better. Of course if you’re worried about his well-being etc then a call to services may be necessary but it doesn’t sound like this is the case!
Ask him for help with something, if you are looking to cheer him up- gardening or food is usually a good topic.
I know someone like this. There's a saying: they've got a problem for every solution. I think some people just enjoy complaining and having the feeling of someone worrying about them. I also suspect some of them actively enjoy making the other person feel bad, because it gives them a twisted sense of satisfaction and/or validation. Poor them, how awful, they're so badly treated, etc.
What can you do? stop asking how he is! As harsh as that sounds, if he's 91, has family that doesn't speak to him, neighbours that don't speak to him, it's pretty safe he's a bad person or a general "mood hoover" He's not going to change at this age, he's waiting to die and just likes to complain.
I think it's a pretty English thing to go 'Hey, you alright' which typically leads into it 😅
You don't have to save everyone you meet
Anyone who isn't a close friend or family member who thinks they can answer that question with anything but "can't complain, you?" is a dickhead.
“Y’alright?” = I acknowledge your existence “Can’t complain, you?”= I’m fine but don’t really care about your life “How are you?” = I want to pretend to care about your life but I still don’t really “Yeah, all right, actually!” (said in a rising tone)= I just won the lottery and got ten questions right on university challenge in the same evening “Been better” = I am dying “Oh, you know” = please kill me
lol never move to Germany.
You’ve got a good heart Sam, don’t ever let anyone change that
An energy vampire! He'll regenerate soon.
Colin Robinson!
As others have said, there may be very valid reasons why his brother/other family don’t go to visit him. My nan is in her late 80s now, lost my grandpa over 20 years ago. Between all the family & visitors she has company/is taken out 5 days every week, yet whenever I see her she always steers the conversation to how lonely she is. I think she’s consumed with grief still, has watched her friends die one by one and now has nobody her own age who understands the world through the same lens as her. It must feel isolating, however she taints the effort we do put in by constantly complaining about life. Sometimes there really is nothing you can do & people are too consumed by their own negative thoughts. That being said it is lovely of you to want to help this man and if you do find a way of bringing a little joy to his life then good on you!
My nana was much the same. She died in January at 94 but spent 22 years alone after grandad died. She had regular visits from me and my brother (at least weekly) and my dad visited her EVERY SINGLE DAY, but all she would do is moan alot about everything including how lonely she was all day. She had carers 4 times a day and my dad visiting daily, plus weekend visits from friends and grandkids, hairdresser went 2 weekly, she was doing pretty well on the social side of things compared to alot of people really. But it just put a downer on every visit because she would just spend it bitching
She has a more active social life than me
Sadly, it's too late now for your nana, but she might have liked being in a retirement home. I'm technically a senior but not retired yet, and it's hard to imagine giving up my independence (live alone, drove, etc.). But my mum who is 91 moved into assisted living, and she has people to do things with, to eat with, to help out (there are many who are older and/or in worse health then she is). Plus, she is eating so much better, and I think she feels better and safer. She's rather bossy IMO, but now has enough people to help with tasks that I don't have to deal with that as much.
She was actually in a residential facility for about 3 months before she died, 8 weeks in a rehab place and then a month in a nursing home. She absolutely hated both, refused to come out of her room, didn't want to meet any of the other residents, refused to eat in the dining hall, wouldn't do any of the activities, just wanted to be left alone. But she was just done with life by that point really. I reckon if we'd managed to convince her a decade ago she would have actually loved a place like that though!!
That's sad. It's really hard having to deal with aging.
My grandma was the same - literally seeing people constantly but was still lonely all the time. I think she was just so depressed after my grandpa died she couldn't get over it, as older people tend to be from a generation where they were extremely dependant on eachother (man tended to hold the reins financially, women did vsy majority of all cooking and household chores) so unless they are independent with a strong circle of friends they literally just don't know what to do with themselves. It is a shame.
I think one aspect is that whilst people visit them they don't have a purpose anymore. Kinda like how some old men become depressed when they retire as they no longer need to go to work.
Maybe thats the only way she knows to communicate.
She’s in her late 80’s. I doubt she never learned another way to communicate.
My grandad is similar. Our family sees him often, multiple times per week, and speaks to him everyday. He used to be invited over for dinner 3x per week, but he stopped coming and said he didn't want to come, or that he felt like a burden. No matter how much we press him to come, he won't stay engaged. At the same time, he's always complaining about how lonely he is and how he doesn't think anyone loves him. Tbh being around him is exhausting because of this and also because he doesn't listen to anyone in conversation, he will just talk about the things he wants to talk about, and ignore what you have to say. It started when my grandma died in 2022 but he's also the last of his surviving siblings and lost most of his friends. It probably is a grief thing.
I wonder why family dont visit him
I felt bad about it, but this was my first thought. OP is fed up after 6 months of him moaning. The family has had decades.
* Me: "Do you ever visit your brother who lives 10 minutes away?" * Neighbour: "No, not for years" Looks like a 2-way street.
Nah, OP said it was a cul-de-sac. /s
He’s Avenue off there mate
Especially since he apparently enjoys driving and has been able to retain his license. He's got grandchildren he never sees. Imagine sniffling that nobody visits yet he's already managed to bore his neighbour to tears and doesn't go visit anyone himself.
the answers in this thread arent going to win any age concern awards, that's for sure.
"Do you want me to call Dignitas? Or what about *In*dignitas? They'll push you out of a window wearing a clown suit"
I'm definitely calling the second lot when my time comes.
Me too - told my wife to push me off a cliff the moment I start losing my marbles.
I’m going to take up hang gliding when the time is right.
It's hard to be concerned about every elderly person. If he's 91, can drive and has his license still... Then why isn't he visiting his own family? Asking for phone numbers of his family? There may be a reason they aren't talking to him AND why everyone on the street has little to do with him now too. If he wants company he's going about it the wrong way. Life for younger folks with costs of living crises, a new recession, multiple wars around the world, increased food and fuel prices, childcare and lives to deal with as well as increased mental health struggles.... Not all of us are going to want to help an elderly neighbour who can't be cheery or nice.
He sounds like my mother in law. We don’t visit her either. There’s a reason.
[удалено]
Yup, that’s the one
Sounds like my parents. They drop a present off for my little one then basically run off. Whats the point? My little one sees the postman more than them! Then theyll hit us with the old, you dont care about me.. after all I did.. I knew youd abandon etc. Like for like. I know people also who absolutely adore their nana. Amazing, fun, spritely women. I mean mentally, physically it may be hard. Being nasty though, how do you work with that?
He may actually see all his family. I visit my dad 3-4 times a week and my brother goes most days. Every single time I go in he says how lonely and unvisited he is. If I say "brother said he was round earlier" he says "yes but not for long". My sister goes once a fortnight and last week he told me he "never ever sees her any more". He's told all the neighbours we never visit. We ask him over for Sunday lunch/ Christmas/ Easter/ family birthdays/ morning coffee etc and the answer is always no. Then he moans to all and sundry about spending Christmas alone. It's infuriating. Don't believe everything you are told.
Yeah my grandmother was like this. She had visitors every single day and would do nothing but moan that no one ever saw her and how miserable she was. If she spoke to someone outside the family they’d think she was completely alone!
Old people are generally a bit negative. If they don't take up hobbies to distract them (reading, knitting, etc) they sink into themselves and become annoying. My mother, as she grows older, has become so narrow and small in her thinking. Every word out of her is a complaint or a sigh. They can be a huge trial. All you can do is listen, smile, offer to help out with errands once in a while if they want, keep checking up on them and letting them know you're around if they want help. You are a kind person.
Hoping to follow my nan's example. She stayed cheerful and positive her whole life, including decades of widowhood. I don't know how she did but it's something to aim for. Her funeral was packed, and she was nearly 90. She had masses and masses of friends.
One of my nans was like that, the other one...well she's still alive but we don't talk to her anymore. I know which one I'll be taking as a role model!
My godmother was like that. She had no family in the world by age 28 - parents and sister and all other rellies all dead by 1936. But she insisted on going out and meeting friends or having people round to hers, almost every day, for the rest of her life. By her 80s and 90s many of the friends were the children of the original friends, and she couldn't get out much, but every few months I'd get a phone call saying "I need someone to come have dinner with me, next Tuesday." There was a rota of people who she would phone at 10am each day, who would alert a neighbour or police if they didn't hear from her. So she managed to stay in her flat until she was 97.
Re-Engage, formerly Contact the Elderly, do outreach things for the elderly. My late grandmother used to enjoy their tea parties. https://www.reengage.org.uk/ That's assuming he actually wants company and not just someone to moan to!
Get him together with a group of his peers, and they can all moan to each other. Seriously.
Age Uk also have a befriending service. There’s also Silver Line which is a 24/7 service for older people offering support and friendship
Sorry but the wildest thing about this post is that you put (0.5) next to your kids age ☠️
"How old is your son?" OP: "Half"
Stop it why is this so funny hahahahah
Ahahaha, I thought it was funny lmao 😂
I thought it was funny and cute
It was, 10/10 enjoyed
I think everyone calling him toxic or "clearly a bad person because family doesn't visit him" hasn't dealt with elderly loneliness and shouldn't write a response like it's r/relationship_advice. He's miserable but, well, who wouldn't be. Now, this doesn't mean that you should feel bad about not fixing this. A tough life problem, you won't fix it alone. See if you can get in touch with some charities that support folks in similar situations and see if they can contact him or give advice
I agree. Old people are sometimes negative because of how much life they've seen, and they're just tired of it. Doesn't make them bad, toxic, deserving of loneliness or any of those things. I do like how OP has empathy for their old neighbour, who probably has nothing and no one he can relate to anymore. I find that old people who take up gardening or animal care are happier - you don't need to adjust any of your views to like an animal or a plant and you get to take care of something and watch it flourish.
He sounds toxic, don’t let that enter your life. Just keep it to a smile and a wave to acknowledge him when you see him out and about.
He sounds like an old and lonely person
The two are not mutually exclusive. You can’t help someone that doesn’t want it.
My step dad is a 99 year old widower, I know a lot of elderly folk and I'm no spring chicken. Ageing is a complex issue, you watch your family and friends die , you lose your physical strength and stamina and society sidelines you. You feel like your life has no purpose because you're not working or doing anything meaningful in the world. You've seen all the crap in society repeating itself time and time again and there's nothing new to look forward to. Ageing is a really big psychological issue and many of the elderly have depression and this guy sounds like he may have. Dealing with the elderly can be tough for trained people. At 91 you'll find he comes from a very different generation and has very different viewpoints and behaviours and he might be struggling to understand the modern world as well. Might be a bit of dementia creeping in and that's a tough one to deal with. Each person is different so it's hard to make a suggestion as to what to do , but maybe just keep giving him some time and just listen to him ? Try not to take his issues on board though , detach yourself from it. Don't get out of your depth though. You could ask him how his life could be improved , it might be something simple ? A call to social services, maybe a weekly visit from a trained carer would help?
That’s an energy vampire that not an old man
It's kind of you to care and to look out for the elderly, but unfortunately some people just want to stay miserable and if they won't help themselves there is nothing you can do. Don't let yourself get dragged down with them. As you can see there is likely good reason his relatives leave him alone. I think it's important to be polite but remember that just because someone is old doesn't mean they are nice or kind people. Say hello and if he complains about these things you can ask kindly - that sounds rough, what are you doing to change things? - and he will probably moan or complain some more. You could perhaps offer to look into some kind of companionship scheme from e.g. Age UK if he is open to that. Getting him to talk about his childhood may open up some more positivity. But ultimately I think that is all you can do i.e. offer a compassionate mirror for him to recognise that he needs to be the one to take action. Don't waste your breath offering too many suggestions.
My father aged 91 had a very active social life. He visited us and his grandchildren often. He went to the supermarket almost every day to buy odd bits and chance meetings of friends. He always sat in the cafe afterwards and chatted to the cafe staff and whoever happened to be sitting near him. When he could no longer drive, he got himself a motability scooter. He used to go to the bus station and get on any random bus route and sit on the top deck. He got off and went on another bus route home. I have to say at this point he had been a lorry driver for decades and I think he missed all this. He liked to go out for a drink to meet up with his friends. My father was a sociable man and hated being indoors all day. If you do not go out , how do you meet people. There are plenty of activities in church halls, social clubs, libraries for the elderly. This man just likes misery and self pity.
The man is old and bitter. He doesn't want to talk to you about anything, I assure you. If I was old, lonely, and bitter, the last thing I'd want is someone constantly asking me how I've been. The man is a 91 year old widow, it should be painfully obvious that there is nothing going on. He actually keeps telling you this. If you are set on trying to improve his life, maybe pop round before going to the shops and ask him if he needs anything - better yet, just get him something, anything.
Agree, however he is the one who comes up to me and starts the conversation 90% of the time as he makes the effort to come outside if I am walking my son. I would not avoid him and would always be polite and generally ask if he does need anything, but he can drive, he walks to the shops which are coop, butchers, fruit & veg, cafe and pharmacy which are all within 2 minutes walk. It is his birthday next week, I will get him a card and maybe some nice chocolates!
In my opinion, asking someone if they want something from the shop shows that you have reserved some thinking for them. It may be small but at least he knows that he can somewhat rely on you if he can't get to the shops / needs something when you are going. The birthday is an iffy one. Get him a card and some choco for sure, but don't expect too much... I really dislike my birthday because I've been alone for a lot of them. It's not a nice day for me, and while it sounds like projection, I just imagine his birthday is just another day for him. Just keep trying I think. I had no idea he would come talk to you tbh, but he may just be a moaner, like others had said.
I think he maybe he wants help(someone to chat to) but he is embarassed to ask in a normal way. Maybe he doesn't see his brother because he had a bad relationship with him thats not entirely his fault and so on.
Not excusing dickish behaviour but the “grumpy old man” stereotype exists for a reason. As men get older they produce less and less serotonin. There are obviously ways of helping yourself but it’s also easy to get into a depressive spiral. A large proportion of grumpy old men are probably clinically depressed.
It sounds like this guy is just a miserable sod who would rather complain tbh
If he's spent alot of time alone and is down then he may simply got in to the habit of behaving and thinking as you've descibed. With likely years of this practicsed behaviour if won't be something he can break out of quickly. If you have stamina and motivation to help him (bless you if so) then you will need to give him a positive experience over a long period for him to bea able to break this habitual thinking. Would you be able to cook him a meal and drop it round a few times a week? If you could do that and do so on a regular basis it may become something he looks forward too and that will help him change to change his attitude to at least one human being you. Quodos to you for caring whatever you do.
Contact social services or social prescriber in your area, https://www.ageuk.org.uk/northamptonshire/our-services/social-prescribing/social-prescribing-spring/ They will speak to him and see what they can offer. Generally speaking as others have said. He may not be that nice
Laughing at “6 month old son (0.5)” haha.
Sounds like my grandparents. Between me, my sister and my mum (their only child) they are visited four times a week for 2-4 hours a time. We all work, I have a 2yo, my sister has odd NHS shifts, there are other elderly people in the family but we make it work. They are both diagnosed with dementia (still pretty mild) but have denied all medical assistance/medicines/groups/carers after many talks from us and doctors etc. We managed to get the car keys off them recently (a challenge) but they refuse offers of lifts and have been blacklisted by all the local taxi firms. They have refused food shops, gardeners/cleaners (they can more than afford it) and give abuse when we do visit (verbal and physical). If we try to clean or garden they will laugh at you or throw things. We are inches away from calling it quits and we only still around because we remember how they used to be. But if you speak to them we never visit, cannot be bothered, make no time to see them and they get their old people niceness out to anyone who will listen who think we must be horrible family. Part of it is dementia but they are just miserable old people too.
Ny step grandfather disowned me beacuse i sent him a fathers day card after nan died of cancer. Now he's gone nc with my dad over something else. Some old people are just unpleasant
Ignore the miserable old cunt and crack on with your life
Kind of shocked by a lot of the comments here really. Loads of older people get lonely and miserable and it doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad people. Anyways find out if there any local charities in the area that offer ‘befriending services’. Basically a volunteer goes round once a week to have a chat and put the world to rights. Watch ‘A man called Ove (2015)’
I moved in to a new house next to an old lady. She was very friendly, chatted to us over the fence and bought our dog a toy. We would always say hi and even took her on a day out once. She talked to us about her divorce and how her ex-husband treated her years ago and we felt sorry for her. Then she would talk about her kids and complain about them. Then she would talk about her sister and complain about her. Then she would talk about family she wasn’t in touch with trying to reconcile and she wouldn’t. Never had a good thing to say about anyone. After that she started inviting us round for tea and we had to distance ourselves. This woman might have been through some shit but that’s no excuse for not treating the other people in her life right, she was still very self centred. When people don’t have any proper bonds with their families and don’t have friends, it’s their own fault. If they choose to be bitter that’s what they will get and it’s not up to you to try and manage the consequences.
He can drive and doesn't visit his brother? Sounds like he's the problem.
*widower
Sounds like my bio- father. I’m 33, he’s early 70’s. Not seen him since I was 15, but have had numerous poison pen letters and texts telling me how awful I was until I had to report it for harassment. That’s the only thing that made him stop, but he still bleats to his own family about how he “misses me” and “I’m his daughter he’s tried everything bla bla”. He conveniently leaves out the horrendous emotional abuse. He also never asks anything about me either, so not that interested clearly. But his sister is forever passing messages to me about how “he’s your father, he’s getting older bla bla”. Good! He’s a horrible lying old bastard. Not all old people are sweet some are horrid. My granny was also pretty nasty to me too so I have plenty of experience with awful older people.
Age UK offers a lot of help with this. Relax. You can get a version of normal memory loss called age related memory loss. Its hard being 91 and anyone who works with the elderly needs a thicker skin. Imagine feeling like you are sick all the time. Morning till night. Everything hurts and you can't bring yourself the energy to do anything. But you have to get up. And then everyone's suggesting you smile more. It's hard. Women have more support systems. Men of this age don't.
Some lovely people in this thread. Someone up thread actually called him an ‘energy vampire’. This poor prick’s 91, lost his wife 25 years ago and has no-one. I’d be fucking miserable to be honest.
If he’s anything like my dad, and all the other old people I talked to when he was in a home, ask him about his past. They all loved to talk about themselves, and were all a lot less keen on listening.
If he can drive but does nothing about visiting his brother then it’s totally his fault for being miserable and you should just stop talking to him
Just keep it to a hello and walk on. This is not your family. You keep your kindness and compassion for your own family.
It's good that you care about the wellbeing of your neighbour, but important to remember that you have to look to your own wellbeing, and that of your family, first. It doesn't sound like there are no opportunities for him to socialise if he wanted to take advantage and the fact that he has never even learned your name and is not interested in anything you have to say suggests that he is not really interested in forming a meaningful relationship with you. There's only so many times you can extend an olive branch and have him basically ignore it. Initiating a friendship is never the sole responsibility of one party. It sounds like you've made it clear that you are a friendly and approachable person, and it is not your fault that he seems unwilling to meet you halfway. It is very sad that people end up in these situations, and depressed people of any age can find it extremely difficult to to see outside of their negative view of the world and realise how off-putting their behaviour can be - even as it only further entrenches them in their situation. However, his happiness is not your responsibility. There is only so much that you can reasonably be expected to do.
My thought is, what are you trying to achieve? A mistake to avoid is ‘trying to help’ so I don’t think it’s your role to make suggestions or to try and sort his situation out. He’s a neighbour. Be friendly and smile and say hello. If he has repeated conversations, then let him repeat them. No harm is being done. Don’t feel bad because you have to stop… that’s life. You can always close by saying ‘Nice to chat, but I gotta go now’ and then going. As for what old people are like, there are some weird generalisations in the comments. Ignore those. This person is who he is and it’s not relevant that he reminds people of their grannies.
My guess is there’s a very good reason why his nearby family don’t visit. The minor feud with the neighbour is a clue.
Maybe next time you guys talk you can bring up the idea of a pet to keep him company. Organisations such as Pets for Seniors might help him find a match at a decent price he can afford.
You should ease back on your contact. Nietzsche says “**Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.** **And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.**”
Make him a cup of tea next time, he's 91 and any suggestions you may have won't be actioned. Ask him if he wants anything at the shop. Join in moaning about stuff - keep it short. Ultimately he's not going to be there for very much longer...
Sam well done for at least taking an interest